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Topic: 2023-2024 B1G Basketball Thread

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medinabuckeye1

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Re: 2023-2024 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #1540 on: March 06, 2024, 10:10:07 AM »
It is somewhat goofy to give an award based on how low the expectations were for you.
Tressel, Urbz or Day never won COY, right?
Right.
Neither did Cooper. Earle Bruce won it in 1979 (his first year) so it has been 45 years.

I agree with @MaximumSam that it is goofy and I'm not defending it but it is what it is.

MaximumSam

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Re: 2023-2024 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #1541 on: March 06, 2024, 10:12:28 AM »
Day did get it from the media in 2019. The league gave it to PJ Fleck.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2023-2024 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #1542 on: March 06, 2024, 10:48:56 AM »
I get it but change can be better . . .
Or worse.

Questions for you:
  • How many league titles did Wisconsin win between 1947 (right after WWII) and 2002 (55 years later)?
  • How many tournament appearances did Wisconsin have between Korea and the Gulf War?

As I've always said, even when a program is hovering near it's historic peak but has been stagnantly AT that peak too long, fans always want to sack the guy who's performing for the guy who can take the program to "the next level". 

But when it's not my program doing that, I say:



847badgerfan

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Re: 2023-2024 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #1543 on: March 06, 2024, 10:53:47 AM »
Wisconsin's basketball peak was having a national championship stolen from them by the officials in 2015.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

grillrat

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Re: 2023-2024 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #1544 on: March 06, 2024, 11:03:16 AM »
FWIW, if Nebraska loses in Ann Arbor then I think that Johnson can win COTY by winning out because in that case UNL and MN would both finish 11-9 and Minnesota's preseason expectations were lower.

If Nebraska loses in Ann Arbor and Minnesota does not win out it likely means that they lost to Northwestern on Saturday in which case Collins would win it if NU also wins in East Lansing tonight.

If none of those things pan out we are probably back around to Hoiberg although an argument could be made for Diebler at that point.

I still don't see an argument for Painter based on exceeding expectations but if the field is THAT weak he might just get it by default as the coach of the best team.
As much as I give Diebler credit, I don't think that he will have enough games under his belt to be in consideration.
I get the idea that it goes to the over-achieving team, but I think the field is just that weak this year.

Yes, Hoiberg exceeded preaseason expectations, but in the end, he is improving his team from 9-11 in 2023 to 12-8 in 2024 (assuming a Michigan win) and did so against one of the easier Big Ten schedules (Nebraska only faced Purdue, Illinois, Iowa, and MSU once, so they only had 3 double games against the top half of the league.)

By that same token, Painter improved his team from 15-5 to 17-3 (assuming a Wisconsin win) and will likely win the league by 3 games TWO YEARS IN A ROW.  Also bear in mind that (again, assuming a win on Sunday) he will have 10 wins against teams in the top 25 of the NET / Kenpom, with 7 of those being neutral or road wins.  That is just insane.

We knew Purdue was going to be good, but even by my optimistic standards they have exceeded expectations.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: 2023-2024 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #1545 on: March 06, 2024, 11:59:48 AM »
As much as I give Diebler credit, I don't think that he will have enough games under his belt to be in consideration.
I agree with the caveat that IF the Buckeyes had beaten Minnesota and Diebler ended up 6-0 I think he would be in consideration.  
I get the idea that it goes to the over-achieving team, but I think the field is just that weak this year.
This part I think we both just accept as a given.  I agree to an extent with @MaximumSam 's comment above that it is goofy but for purposes of this discussion that is more-or-less irrelevant.  As a practical matter it is an award for achieving beyond expectations.  
Yes, Hoiberg exceeded preaseason expectations, but in the end, he is improving his team from 9-11 in 2023 to 12-8 in 2024 (assuming a Michigan win) and did so against one of the easier Big Ten schedules (Nebraska only faced Purdue, Illinois, Iowa, and MSU once, so they only had 3 double games against the top half of the league.)

By that same token, Painter improved his team from 15-5 to 17-3 (assuming a Wisconsin win) and will likely win the league by 3 games TWO YEARS IN A ROW.  Also bear in mind that (again, assuming a win on Sunday) he will have 10 wins against teams in the top 25 of the NET / Kenpom, with 7 of those being neutral or road wins.  That is just insane.
By what you've laid out here, Painter improved by two games from 15 to 17 wins (assuming a win at Iowa) and Hoiberg improved by three wins from nine to 12 (assuming a win at Michigan).  Hoiberg wins that because 3>2.  

Beyond that, it isn't just games, it is also relative place in the league.  Hoiberg's team was projected to finish in the bottom four and playing on Wednesday and instead they will be in the top-4 taking not only Wednesday but also Thursday off.  That is obviously a MUCH bigger jump than Painter who went from being expected to finish first to finishing first.  

I think the argument about relative SoS is getting way too far into the weeds.  Bottom line, Hoiberg's team was projected to be bad and they are good.  Painter's team was expected to be really good and they are . . . really good.  

Recent B1G Champions:
  • 15-5 Purdue in 2023, won by 3 games.  Second best team was 12-8.  
  • 15-5 Illinois and Wisconsin in 2022, won by 1 game.  Second best team was 15-5.  
  • 14-3 Michigan in 2021, won by 1/2 game.  Second best team was 16-4.  
  • 14-6 Wisconsin, Maryland, and Michigan State in 2020, won by 1 game.  Second best team was 14-6.  
  • 16-4 Purdue and Michigan State in 2019, won by 1 game.  Second best team was 16-4.  
  • 16-2 Michigan State in 2018, won by 1 game.  Second best team was 15-3.  

17-3 (assuming a win in Iowa City) is the best league Champion we've had since 2018 and that is an accomplishment but they were already favored to win the league.  As a neutral fan, I don't consider Purdue finishing 17-3 in the league this year to be a big surprise.  

Also, Purdue went 15-5 last year and they brought back the POTY.  I expected them to be better this year so 17-3 is about what I expected.  If anything, I expected more.  As discussed upthread, having an award where low expectations helps is goofy but that is what it is.  

If you had told me before the season started that I could have $1,000 if I correctly picked which of the following two things would happen:
  • Purdue wins at least 17 B1G games, or
  • Nebraska gets a double-bye in the B1G Tournament.  
I'd have chosen #1 because I'd have considered it to be MUCH more likely.  

MarqHusker

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Re: 2023-2024 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #1546 on: March 06, 2024, 01:35:30 PM »
Wisconsin's basketball peak was having a national championship stolen from them by the officials in 2015.
Reading this it dawned on me, I have about a 15 year window of almost zero memories of the NCAA finals. I think was in front of a TV for 1 1/2 of the past 15 title games.  I'm always at an Opening Day game somewhere or on Spring break trip w my kids.  I feel like I need to watch some old highlight reels.   For this one, Duke v UW I was in Seattle. 

ELA

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Re: 2023-2024 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #1547 on: March 06, 2024, 01:46:55 PM »
The national championship is always anti-climactic.  It's at like 9:30 on a Monday night

MarqHusker

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Re: 2023-2024 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #1548 on: March 06, 2024, 02:14:24 PM »
Even dumber than the CFP final time slot.   Can't even feign interest in watching it

MaximumSam

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Re: 2023-2024 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #1549 on: March 06, 2024, 02:28:43 PM »
The national championship is always anti-climactic.  It's at like 9:30 on a Monday night
This is a hundred percent true, though at least unlike football they use the Saturday for something good.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2023-2024 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #1550 on: March 06, 2024, 02:40:45 PM »
The national championship is always anti-climactic.  It's at like 9:30 on a Monday night
Even dumber than the CFP final time slot.  Can't even feign interest in watching it
Yep, agreed on both. 

I get that CFB is trying to avoid competing with the NFL, but why would CBB do it? Do the Final Four on Friday night when people might be fine staying up a little later, and then the NC game on Sunday afternoon. 

The 6:30 PT time slot runs right in the middle of dinner prep and dinner. 

847badgerfan

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Re: 2023-2024 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #1551 on: March 06, 2024, 03:01:40 PM »
Yep, agreed on both.

I get that CFB is trying to avoid competing with the NFL, but why would CBB do it? Do the Final Four on Friday night when people might be fine staying up a little later, and then the NC game on Sunday afternoon.

The 6:30 PT time slot runs right in the middle of dinner prep and dinner.
Order out. Got any good pizza in your area?
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2023-2024 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #1552 on: March 06, 2024, 03:05:32 PM »
Order out. Got any good pizza in your area?
We do. Great place right around the corner. 

And if Purdue is going to make the championship game, we're ordering in lol...

...but since they're going to lose before the Final Four in some heartbreaking fashion, I probably won't bother watching since I won't care much. 

847badgerfan

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Re: 2023-2024 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #1553 on: March 06, 2024, 03:07:41 PM »
Thin crust?
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

 

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