2023-2024 B1G Basketball Thread

[847badgerfan]

And DePaul just did what?

[MaximumSam]

And DePaul just did what?

Fired their coach. Hence they need one.

[ELA]

Matt Norlander wrote an article for CBS yesterday about just how awful the DePaul job is.

They are about to extend their tourneyless streak to 20 years.

Stanford and Wisconsin have the record for P6 schools at 47 years, but it was almost entirely in smaller tournament eras.  Since the tourney went to 64 teams in 1985, the only longer streaks are Rutgers (30 years from 1991-2021) and Oregon State (26 years from 1990-2016).  Baylor and TCU both had 20 year droughts.

Baylor would have had a record 58 year streak, but they made it once between 1950-2008, in 1988.  So they wound up with a 38 year streak and a 20 year streak

[medinabuckeye1]

Depaul is in the Big East but is 3-15 and 0-7 in the conference. There are many programs in way, way worse shape than Ohio State.

Of course there are programs in worse shape than Ohio State but this statement is utterly meaningless. 

The relevant consideration is program status relative to reasonable program expectations. 

DePaul:

Matt Norlander wrote an article for CBS yesterday about just how awful the DePaul job is.

They are about to extend their tourneyless streak to 20 years.

Stanford and Wisconsin have the record for P6 schools at 47 years, but it was almost entirely in smaller tournament eras.  Since the tourney went to 64 teams in 1985, the only longer streaks are Rutgers (30 years from 1991-2021) and Oregon State (26 years from 1990-2016).  Baylor and TCU both had 20 year droughts.

Baylor would have had a record 58 year streak, but they made it once between 1950-2008, in 1988.  So they wound up with a 38 year streak and a 20 year streak

DePaul's reasonable program expectations are pretty low, MUCH lower than Ohio State's.

[MaximumSam]

Matt Norlander wrote an article for CBS yesterday about just how awful the DePaul job is.

They are about to extend their tourneyless streak to 20 years.

Stanford and Wisconsin have the record for P6 schools at 47 years, but it was almost entirely in smaller tournament eras.  Since the tourney went to 64 teams in 1985, the only longer streaks are Rutgers (30 years from 1991-2021) and Oregon State (26 years from 1990-2016).  Baylor and TCU both had 20 year droughts.

Baylor would have had a record 58 year streak, but they made it once between 1950-2008, in 1988.  So they wound up with a 38 year streak and a 20 year streak

I read that. One of the names on his list intrigues me as a coach at OSU, which is Indiana State's head coach.

[847badgerfan]

DePaul will dip into the mid-majors to find a coach.

[847badgerfan]

[MaximumSam]

DePaul will dip into the mid-majors to find a coach.

Sure, they don't have the option of doing anything other than that. But it's the type of things coaches sometimes do when it isn't working out and they don't want to get canned. Tubby going from Kentucky to Minnesota was a famous one. More recently, Shaka Smart going from Texas to Marquette. Not that Holtmann has any connections to Depaul but they would probably welcome him with open arms if he wanted to be there. They would kill for a competent if unexceptional program right now.

[grillrat]

Not to take anything away from Gard, he is a good coach, but this list doesn't take into account the status of the programs at the time they took over.  Gard took over a team that went 32-3 (16-2) the year before and Tom Izzo took over a team that went 22-6 (14-4).  On the other side, Beilein took over a somewhat "meh" NIT level Michigan team that went 22-13 (8-8) the year before and Painter took over a floundering Purdue program that was 9-19 (3-13).  Bo Ryan is probably the more impressive name on that list.  While Benet did a good job of getting Wisconsin out of the 0.500 level team that they were in the 80's to a 22 win level team, Ryan is the one took the program to the next level pretty quickly.

[betarhoalphadelta]

Not to take anything away from Gard, he is a good coach, but this list doesn't take into account the status of the programs at the time they took over.  Gard took over a team that went 32-3 (16-2) the year before and Tom Izzo took over a team that went 22-6 (14-4).  On the other side, Beilein took over a somewhat "meh" NIT level Michigan team that went 22-13 (8-8) the year before and Painter took over a floundering Purdue program that was 9-19 (3-13).  Bo Ryan is probably the more impressive name on that list.  While Benet did a good job of getting Wisconsin out of the 0.500 level team that they were in the 80's to a 22 win level team, Ryan is the one took the program to the next level pretty quickly.

I'd also mention that Gard is the exact same age as Painter (53) but Painter took over the Purdue program in 2005 while Gard took over Wisconsin in 2015, a decade older and with more experience than Painter. 

Now, Purdue fans can probably endlessly debate whether Painter was hired to be HC while "too young" or "not experienced enough", but I think we can all agree that there was an extent to which that experience had to be learned on the job after only a single season as the "transition coach in waiting" behind Keady who was on his way out with a bad team. While Gard spent ~14 years under the DIRECT tutelage of Ryan, gaining first-hand experience as he watched how a successful program is run. 

I think most Purdue fans see Painter's early years finding his way as the necessary investment to have the guy we have now... 

Like you, I don't say that as a criticism of Gard. We've seen NUMEROUS examples of an assistant coach inheriting a program from one of the greats the results start faltering once the last guy's recruits start graduating and they have to make the program their own. Gard has avoided that, which makes me think he's an excellent coach in his own right. 

[847badgerfan]

Didn't Keady get to a sweet 16 in his last season?

When did Bruce Weber leave for SIU?

[medinabuckeye1]

Not to take anything away from Gard, he is a good coach, but this list doesn't take into account the status of the programs at the time they took over.  Gard took over a team that went 32-3 (16-2) the year before and Tom Izzo took over a team that went 22-6 (14-4).  On the other side, Beilein took over a somewhat "meh" NIT level Michigan team that went 22-13 (8-8) the year before and Painter took over a floundering Purdue program that was 9-19 (3-13).  Bo Ryan is probably the more impressive name on that list.  While Benet did a good job of getting Wisconsin out of the 0.500 level team that they were in the 80's to a 22 win level team, Ryan is the one took the program to the next level pretty quickly.

I agree 100% and I'll add that Pat Richter deserves a lot more credit and accolades than he's ever gotten. He made the hires that took Wisconsin Football and Basketball from doormat and middling respectively to regular conference contender.

[bayareabadger]

I'd also mention that Gard is the exact same age as Painter (53) but Painter took over the Purdue program in 2005 while Gard took over Wisconsin in 2015, a decade older and with more experience than Painter.

Now, Purdue fans can probably endlessly debate whether Painter was hired to be HC while "too young" or "not experienced enough", but I think we can all agree that there was an extent to which that experience had to be learned on the job after only a single season as the "transition coach in waiting" behind Keady who was on his way out with a bad team. While Gard spent ~14 years under the DIRECT tutelage of Ryan, gaining first-hand experience as he watched how a successful program is run.

I think most Purdue fans see Painter's early years finding his way as the necessary investment to have the guy we have now...

Like you, I don't say that as a criticism of Gard. We've seen NUMEROUS examples of an assistant coach inheriting a program from one of the greats the results start faltering once the last guy's recruits start graduating and they have to make the program their own. Gard has avoided that, which makes me think he's an excellent coach in his own right.

It feels weird comparing them. Obviously a lot of differences. Painter had that one year of HC work, then got the “in-waiting” job.

Gard was pretty old to finally get his shot, given the background. Gard also inherited a team mid-season that was in a bad way.

But it’s also worth noting, both have had some downs with the ups. Even good coaches have to ride out some rough patches.

[bayareabadger]

Didn't Keady get to a sweet 16 in his last season?

When did Bruce Weber leave for SIU?

No. After an elite eight run in 2000, ended by Wisconsin, they had about a five year dip.

Not that Bo handed things off in tip top shape.