2023-2024 B1G Basketball Thread

[SuperMario]

See, I'm the opposite.  College basketballs format is set that any solid team "can" win a national title.  UConn won it last year as a 4 seed.  Tell me the next time a non top 12 team has a prayer of winning a college football title.  No football team can be "good" and hope for NCs.  You have to be of a certain elite breed.  College basketball, any good team can win one.

I would agree with you almost any year, but this year makes me pause just a minute considering every 1,2 seed still in it. It will be interesting to see if mindset shifts this year going to a 12 team playoff in football and seeing it work out. 

That being said, the lowest seed to win it all was Villanova at 8 and that was 1985. 31 of the last 34 national champs were 1,2 or 3 seeds. Essentially almost no non top 12 team in it.  Most notable outliers are #4 Uconn last year, #7 Uconn 2014, #7 Kansas 1988. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

See, I'm the opposite.  College basketballs format is set that any solid team "can" win a national title.  UConn won it last year as a 4 seed.  Tell me the next time a non top 12 team has a prayer of winning a college football title.  No football team can be "good" and hope for NCs.  You have to be of a certain elite breed.  College basketball, any good team can win one.

I'm not sure it's all that different. 

I think you're talking about "top 12" in football, but there are only 130ish teams. In basketball, there are >300, and the rosters are much smaller, so I'd venture the equivalent is about the top 24 teams as talent is more spread around... 24 would coincidentally point to about the top 6 seeds. 

Oh, look at the history... Only one 6 seed, one 7 seed, and one 8 seed have won the thing since the modern tournament began in 1985. In fact, since zero 5 seed teams have won it, that means that the other 35 tournaments in history have been top 4 seeds (top 16 teams). 

I think the modern basketball tournament is actually quite similar to what the CFP tournament would be if it were, say, 24 teams. The bottom 14 teams would effectively be "cannon fodder" for the top 10, because although they might win a game or two, they can't keep it going forever against the real contenders. 

There's IMHO slightly more variance in basketball than football... But it's not like St. Peters, who made the first 13-or-worse seed appearance in the E8 in history, actually had ANY chance to win it all. 

[MaximumSam]

I'm not sure it's all that different.

I think you're talking about "top 12" in football, but there are only 130ish teams. In basketball, there are >300, and the rosters are much smaller, so I'd venture the equivalent is about the top 24 teams as talent is more spread around... 24 would coincidentally point to about the top 6 seeds.

Oh, look at the history... Only one 6 seed, one 7 seed, and one 8 seed have won the thing since the modern tournament began in 1985. In fact, since zero 5 seed teams have won it, that means that the other 35 tournaments in history have been top 4 seeds (top 16 teams).

I think the modern basketball tournament is actually quite similar to what the CFP tournament would be if it were, say, 24 teams. The bottom 14 teams would effectively be "cannon fodder" for the top 10, because although they might win a game or two, they can't keep it going forever against the real contenders.

There's IMHO slightly more variance in basketball than football... But it's not like St. Peters, who made the first 13-or-worse seed appearance in the E8 in history, actually had ANY chance to win it all.

The secret is to play Purdue

[betarhoalphadelta]

The secret is to play Purdue

It does tend to help...

...but you can't play Purdue 6 times in a row to win it all in a single-elimination tournament. 

[Brutus Buckeye]

You could play Purdue-Fort Wayne and IuPuI. 

[ELA]

This is why UNC is maybe the one basketball first school worth the Big Ten going after.  MSU is a draw, but that's a UNC pull


https://twitter.com/0Gstank1/status/1772963597259268497?s=20

[ELA]

This is why UNC is maybe the one basketball first school worth the Big Ten going after.  MSU is a draw, but that's a UNC pull


https://twitter.com/0Gstank1/status/1772963597259268497?s=20

And FYI it's more than double any NBA game.

Pro sports other than the NFL being a national draw in the regular season is over.

[betarhoalphadelta]

And FYI it's more than double any NBA game.

Pro sports other than the NFL being a national draw in the regular season is over.

Yeah, and college sports other than college football being a national draw in the regular season is over too... Highlighted by the fact that this wasn't a regular season game, it was an NCAAT (i.e. playoff) game. 

[ELA]

Yeah, and college sports other than college football being a national draw in the regular season is over too... Highlighted by the fact that this wasn't a regular season game, it was an NCAAT (i.e. playoff) game.

That has been the case for a while though.  Has there been any major shift in regular season college basketball viewing?

[betarhoalphadelta]

That has been the case for a while though.  Has there been any major shift in regular season college basketball viewing?

Not that I'm aware of. 

However that may impact the question of whether UNC is worth going after for basketball and not football. Would the additional regular-season basketball ratings and revenue offset the dilution of football revenue to add another (non-competitive/non-helmet) school?

[medinabuckeye1]

Not that I'm aware of.

However that may impact the question of whether UNC is worth going after for basketball and not football. Would the additional regular-season basketball ratings and revenue offset the dilution of football revenue to add another (non-competitive/non-helmet) school?

FWIW:
UNC isn't altogether terrible in football. They are #35 all time with 280 AP Appearances. That is between one-fifth and one quarter of all polls. Within the soon-to-be B1G, that is twelth:

• 1 Ohio State, 982
• 2 Michigan, 919
• 6 USC, 813
• 8 Nebraska, 730
• 9 Penn State, 694
• 16 UCLA, 553
• 20 Washington, 481
• 22 Michigan State, 419
• 23 Wisconsin, 416
• 24 Oregon, 366
• 25 Iowa, 365
• 35, North Carolina, 280

[betarhoalphadelta]

FWIW:
UNC isn't altogether terrible in football. They are #35 all time with 280 AP Appearances. That is between one-fifth and one quarter of all polls. Within the soon-to-be B1G, that is twelth:

• 1 Ohio State, 982
• 2 Michigan, 919
• 6 USC, 813
• 8 Nebraska, 730
• 9 Penn State, 694
• 16 UCLA, 553
• 20 Washington, 481
• 22 Michigan State, 419
• 23 Wisconsin, 416
• 24 Oregon, 366
• 25 Iowa, 365
• 35, North Carolina, 280

That's true. And if we want to keep the pretense that we care about academics, they're a fine institution there too. I'm not sure how much "media markets" and "conference footprint" drive anything for TV deals any more, but adding UNC might have value there as well. 

So maybe I was too hasty. They might be in that middle ground between helmet and pastry, i.e. the "quality addition but doesn't move the needle" territory. 

[medinabuckeye1]

That's true. And if we want to keep the pretense that we care about academics, they're a fine institution there too. I'm not sure how much "media markets" and "conference footprint" drive anything for TV deals any more, but adding UNC might have value there as well.

So maybe I was too hasty. They might be in that middle ground between helmet and pastry, i.e. the "quality addition but doesn't move the needle" territory.

A big unknown to me is the size and passion of their fanbase as it relates to football. This whole discussion started with @ELA commenting on their BB fanbase which we should expect to be large and passionate because they are a blue blood there but I have almost no idea how that translates to football. Some thoughts on that:

North Carolina is a populous and growing state. Between the 2010 and 2020 census they passed Michigan to become the 9th most populous state with a little over 10.4M people and they are on pace to surpass #7 Ohio in ~20 years.

OTOH, there are not one, not two, not three, but four ACC schools in the state. I would guess that the Tar Heels get the Lions share of the fan support but I don't know how many fans are peeled away by NCST, Wake, and DOOK. Additionally, the state is adjacent to South Carolina, Georgia, Tennessee, and Virginia so some of the football fans undoubtedly follow the historically more successful programs of Clemson, Georgia, Tennessee, and VaTech. Finally, as a rapidly growing state they likely have a not insignificant number of transplanted fans of other schools including a good number of B1G fans.

This NYT article is ancient (2011) but I haven't seen a newer version as comprehensive. It asserts that UNC's fanbase is 5th in the (then) ACC and 30th nationally. That isn't huge but it isn't bad either.

[Cincydawg]

When I was at UNC, it was very striking how relatively little they supported football vs UGA.  Game days were not very intense, at all, but that was 1976-1980.

UGA is obviously a bit football crazy of course.