2022-2023 B1G Basketball Thread

[bayareabadger]

There's been a long-standing joke at Hammer & Rails that Izzo's recruiting strategy is to wait around and look at who Painter is going after early, and then just show up and convince them to come to MSU.

I feel like this speaks to a certain reality that most everyone thinks their coach should be getting more talent. And the only ones we don’t feel that way about are the ones who aren’t doing enough with it.

I’m sure some Michigan State fans don’t think Tom is an all-time closer because of some recruits that he missed somewhere along the way.

[bayareabadger]

UW needs talent. UW is not getting talent. Guys like Happ are rare. Wahl and Crowl are not developing like Happ did.

A lottery pick was the difference last season, and it's rare for a 3* to develop into one. Granted, he was criminally underrated and wanted by many other schools. He was also hunting for bigger offers.

And don't forget - UW had to take his brother to get him.

I mean, the lottery pick was the difference last season between being a solid team and winning the conference. And one could also argue his absence is one of the big problems this season.

But in the end, very few teams can handle what should be the three best players under performing and some very key areas. That is especially key in the transfer portal era when depth is naturally going to be less.

He will have the off-season and should return most of this rotation that at least had fight. And if they don’t at least improve next year, he’s done and folks get their wish.

[847badgerfan]

This is a little beside the point, but are we giving the 2005 team credit for having Brian Butch as a low usage bench player?

He was not used a ton because he had mono, but he was on the floor.

That team was more Wilkerson and Tucker.

[betarhoalphadelta]

I feel like this speaks to a certain reality that most everyone thinks their coach should be getting more talent. And the only ones we don’t feel that way about are the ones who aren’t doing enough with it.

I’m sure some Michigan State fans don’t think Tom is an all-time closer because of some recruits that he missed somewhere along the way.

Certainly. And I'm not going to lie, the joke came out of a level of butthurt of always feeling like Purdue and MSU were battling for the same recruits--and Purdue wasn't winning a lot of those. It's bolstered by the [correct IMHO] belief that Painter has an excellent eye for talent, and guys he's on early typically end up SOMEWHERE on a P5 roster. 

In reality, MSU is the cream of the crop in the conference and Izzo is a much more established coach with more accolades and proven success, so Purdue shouldn't be expected to outperform the Spartans on the recruiting trail. 

[medinabuckeye1]

In reality, MSU is the cream of the crop in the conference

This raises a fun off-season topic.

First, I fully expect to be in off-season mode in about two hours and the Michigan, Minnesota, Nebraska, and Wisconsin fans are already there. The rest of you can join in over the next week or hopefully two or three weeks.

The topic I refer to is, who IS the B1G's second best program?

From my perspective, historical success before a certain point is simply to archaic to have much relevance today. In the case of BB I find the expansion to a 64 team tournament in 1985 to be a good cutoff. That was 38 years ago. Since then:
League titles (#, school, last)

• 11 Michigan State 2020
• 9 Purdue 2023
• 7 Indiana 2016
• 7 Ohio State 2012
• 6 Wisconsin 2022
• 6 Illinois 2022
• 5 Michigan 2021
• 1 Maryland 2020

NCAA Appearances:

• 31 Michigan State about to be 32, 2023
• 28 Purdue about to be 29, 2023
• 26 Indiana about to be 27, 2023
• 24 Illinois about to be 25, 2023
• 24 Wisconsin 2022
• 23 Michigan 2022
• 22 Maryland about to be 23, 2023
• 22 Ohio State 2022
• 20 Iowa about to be 21, 2023
• 12 Minnesota, 2019
• 7 Nebraska, 2014
• 4 Penn State about to be 5, 2023
• 4 Rutgers about to be 5, 2023
• 1 Northwestern about to be 2, 2023

S16's:

• 16 Michigan State, 2019
• 12 Michigan, 2022
• 11 Purdue, 2022
• 10 Wisconsin, 2017
• 10 Indiana, 2016
• 9 Maryland, 2016
• 8 Ohio State, 2013
• 6 Illinois, 2005
• 3 Iowa, 1999
• 3 Minnesota, 1990
• 1 Penn State

E8's

• 10 Michigan State, 2019
• 8 Michigan, 2021
• 5 Ohio State, 2013
• 4 Indiana, 2002
• 4 Wisconsin, 2015
• 3 Illinois, 2005
• 3 Purdue, 2019
• 2 Maryland, 2002
• 1 Minnesota, 1990
• 1 Iowa, 1987

F4's:

• 8 Michigan State, 2019
• 5 Michigan, 2018
• 3 Indiana, 2002
• 3 Wisconsin, 2015
• 3 Ohio State, 2012
• 2 Maryland, 2002
• 2 Illinois, 2005

NC's:

• 1 Maryland, 2002
• 1 Michigan State, 2000
• 1 Michigan, 1989
• 1 Indiana, 1987

[FearlessF]

The topic I refer to is, who IS the B1G's second best program?

Purdue

[betarhoalphadelta]

IMHO Purdue has the 2nd-best coaching since 1985 in the conference. 

However, if you look at talent, Purdue has probably been 4th-6th in conference on a consistent basis since that time. I'd rank at least Indiana, MSU, and Michigan higher. Probably also OSU. Maybe Illinois has an argument too. 

This has led to consistently strong performances in the regular season, but running into a wall in single-elimination tournament scenarios against teams with more STARZZZZ. 

[ELA]

There is a reason OSU takes Sensabaugh off the court when they need a stop.  He's the worst defender in their rotation.  So I would expect them to defend better but score a lot less without him.  But for MSU to be on pace for 47 points is a special level of yuck, and OSU's offense seems fine enough

[medinabuckeye1]

There is a reason OSU takes Sensabaugh off the court when they need a stop.  He's the worst defender in their rotation.  So I would expect them to defend better but score a lot less without him.  But for MSU to be on pace for 47 points is a special level of yuck, and OSU's offense seems fine enough

Text I just sent my wife regarding weekend plans:
"Ohio State is miraculously leading at the half in Chicago. If they actually win this game (I doubt it, it is their third in three days and against a well-rested opponent) they will play tomorrow at 330 on CBS.

In the even less likely event that they actually win on Saturday as well, they will play Sunday at 330 on CBS for a spot in the NCAA Tournament."

As I said previously, I think that fatigue will be a big factor against the Buckeyes in the second half. Michigan State had a rough start but we've observed for literally decades that teams tend not to play very well in their first game, hence the prevalence of upsets by teams playing game two over superior teams playing game one.

[ELA]

If MSU was just missing open shots, I might agree.  But OSU is defending better, and hitting their jumpers.  And it's not like OSU spurted out and held it.  It was essentially even for the first 12 or so minutes, and OSU built out the lead in the final 8 minutes

[medinabuckeye1]

If MSU was just missing open shots, I might agree.  But OSU is defending better, and hitting their jumpers.  And it's not like OSU spurted out and held it.  It was essentially even for the first 12 or so minutes, and OSU built out the lead in the final 8 minutes

Well, some perspective, first day teams against second+ day opponents in this tournament so far:

• 24 points by MSU V tOSU
• 28 points by IA V tOSU
• 29 points by PU V RU
• 31 points by UMD V MN

So yeah, 24 points in a half isn't good but it isn't that far away from the norm either.

[medinabuckeye1]

And just like that MSU opens the second half on a 10-3 run to make it a two point game.

[FearlessF]

it's late on a Friday, I'll turn on the TV

[ELA]

Malik Hall needs to find a seat for the rest of the afternoon