2022-2023 B1G Basketball Thread

[medinabuckeye1]

Chris Holtman gonna get an extension.

Why do you do this to me?

[medinabuckeye1]

It is B1G Champ or bust for the Buckeyes. The NIT is mathematically off the table. The Buckeyes would need three more wins to get to .500 and eligible for the NIT. To get there they'd have to win:

• Quarter-final against MSU today and
• Semi-final against PU/RU tomorrow and
• B1GCG.

If they did that, NIT eligibility would be a moot point as they would get an auto-bid to the NCAA.

[847badgerfan]

Why do you do this to me?

I would actually take Holtman over Gard right now.

[FearlessF]

I'd trade Hoiberg for either of them

[medinabuckeye1]

I would actually take Holtman over Gard right now.

I would take that trade.

[847badgerfan]

Greg Gard is great at identifying talent for other programs. He's not a closer. Example:










He was in on basically all of these kids before anyone else and led for all of them early on.

[bayareabadger]

I would actually take Holtman over Gard right now.

/rolls eyes

On the other hand, if things end up on the more negative side next season, these teams could well have a chance to make the trade at the end of next year

[847badgerfan]

UW needs talent. UW is not getting talent. Guys like Happ are rare. Wahl and Crowl are not developing like Happ did.

A lottery pick was the difference last season, and it's rare for a 3* to develop into one. Granted, he was criminally underrated and wanted by many other schools. He was also hunting for bigger offers. 

And don't forget - UW had to take his brother to get him.

[betarhoalphadelta]

Greg Gard is great at identifying talent for other programs. He's not a closer. Example:

He was in on basically all of these kids before anyone else and led for all of them early on.

There's been a long-standing joke at Hammer & Rails that Izzo's recruiting strategy is to wait around and look at who Painter is going after early, and then just show up and convince them to come to MSU. 

[medinabuckeye1]

My impression from 30,000' is that Bo Ryan's amazing run of success at Wisconsin was built not on getting 5* recruits but on getting lower rated recruits that seemed to have a good upside and developing them into quality BB players.

I've always thought this was the best strategy for Wisconsin because I don't know that they can consistently win recruiting battles for 5* type guys. 

That said, I don't know if that can work in the era of the portal because we now have a retention issue related to talent so it is no longer just a matter of recruiting but now recruiting AND retention. 

As I see it, Ohio State is in a slightly different situation. Historically, both programs have had ugly "lows":

• Wisconsin went 54 seasons 1948-2001 without winning a league title.
• Ohio State won only two league titles in the 34 years between peak Fred Taylor and Thad Matta, 1972-2005.

Both have also had very good "highs:

• In the 21 seasons from 2002-2022 Wisconsin won six league titles, that is a rate of one every 3.5 seasons.
• In the 18 seasons from 1907-1924 Wisconsin won 10 league titles, that is a rate of better than one every other year. 
• In the seven seasons from 2006-2012 Ohio State won five league titles, that is a rate of better than two every three years.
• In the 12 seasons from 1960-1971 Ohio State won seven league titles plus an NC. That is a rate of better than one league title every other year. 

All of that indicates to me that Ohio State's highs are a little higher and Wisconsin's lows are a little lower. 

Ohio State has a demonstrated ability in multiple eras and under multiple coaches to compete at the very highest levels in this sport. Wisconsin is close to that and their highs have tended to last longer. 

[847badgerfan]

The only times Bo got to the Elite 8 or further was when he had a 5* player on the floor. Both of those were in-state, and now UW is not keeping those kids home anymore.

[medinabuckeye1]

FWIW, Ohio State and Wisconsin are tied for 3rd/4th with 20 league titles each. League titles and most recent:

• 25 Purdue, 2023
• 22 Indiana, 2016
• 20 Wisconsin, 2022
• 20 Ohio State, 2012
• 18 Illinois, 2022
• 16 Michigan State, 2020
• 15 Michigan, 2021
• 8 Minnesota, 1982
• 8 Iowa, 1979
• 6 Chicago, 1924
• 2 Northwestern, 1933
• 1 Maryland, 2020

Penn State, Nebraska, and Rutgers have never won a title in this league. 

To be fair to MSU, they didn't join until the 1950's and their first title was in 1957. Since then (67 seasons from 1957-2023):

• 17 Indiana 
• 16 Michigan State 
• 14 Ohio State 
• 12 Purdue 
• 10 Michigan 
• 8 Illinois 
• 6 Wisconsin 
• 3 Iowa
• 2 Minnesota 

Last 20 years, 2004-2023:

• 6 Michigan State 
• 5 Ohio State 
• 4 Purdue 
• 4 Wisconsin 
• 3 Illinois 
• 3 Michigan 
• 2 Indiana 

[medinabuckeye1]

Back to the present:
If Ohio State has any advantage today and this weekend it is that they are the only remaining team that is playing to extend their season. The other seven are, IMHO probably all tournament locks. Ohio State is already in a win-or-go-home situation. 

Ohio State's obvious disadvantage is that they are already playing their third game in three days. PU, MSU, NU, and IU are playing their first game today while RU, PSU, and UMD are playing their second. 

[bayareabadger]

The only times Bo got to the Elite 8 or further was when he had a 5* player on the floor. Both of those were in-state, and now UW is not keeping those kids home anymore.

This is a little beside the point, but are we giving the 2005 team credit for having Brian Butch as a low usage bench player?