2022-2023 B1G Basketball Thread

[MaximumSam]

Buckeye fans were mad at Gene Smith last time around because he took too long and "missed" on Archie Miller 

[ELA]

Buckeye fans were mad at Gene Smith last time around because he took too long and "missed" on Archie Miller

Have to set your aim lower than 5'8" if you want Archie



https://twitter.com/mattstonephotog/status/939655695384940545?s=20&t=H4DNsHDxx30rVN8q1rXm2w

[847badgerfan]

He also turns 70 next month. Which means its time for him to run for president.

[medinabuckeye1]

I dunno that the mood is really that bad. If OSU had any expectations this year it might be different. I suppose it depends on how things end up - pop a few wins in a row and everyone is hunky dory again.

Obviously not for me and probably not exactly "hunky dory" for the majority.  Our program is currently five games out of first in the league and effectively eliminated from the league title race IN JANUARY.  Barring a miraculous finish, a stupendous collapse by Purdue, and nobody else stepping up, Ohio State will not be a contender for the league title this year, Holtmann's SIXTH.  The last five:

• 2022 Illinois/Wisconsin won it at 15-5, tOSU finished three games out. 
• 2021 Michigan won it at 14-3, tOSU finished 3.5 games out. 
• 2020:  Wisconsin/Maryland/MSU won it at 14-6, tOSU finished three games out. 
• 2019:  Purdue/MSU won it at 16-4, tOSU finished eight games out. 
• 2018:  MSU won it at 16-2, tOSU finished one game out. 

In the last five seasons the worst league champ had six losses.  Ohio State's sixth loss this year came with a week left in January. 

My complaints are:

• Failing to win or even contend for league titles, and
• Failing to make it beyond the first weekend of the NCAA

The team has effectively already failed at #1 because even if they were to miraculously win out they'd likely finish at least a couple games out. 

Even if the Buckeyes managed to make the S16 this year that would be once in six years compared to a program average (see earlier post) of once every 4.63 tournaments since expansion to 64 teams in 1985 so Holtmann would STILL be behind. 

Yeah, that's why I said the move was for Michigan to bring him back last year.  Bring in a defensive minded coach as his #2, with a 3 year succession plan

If I were AD this is what I'd be looking at.  Something like a three year contract with a "no going to Michigan" clause disguised as a prohibition on coaching any college in Ohio or an adjacent state for the duration of the contract.  Then I'd further elevate Jake Diebler from Associate head Coach to Head Coach in Waiting and give him a contract that keeps him as an assistant for three years then makes him HC.  

Mark Titus went on a pretty solid rant about how the most annoying part about OSU basketball is all of the fans who tune in for the first time after football is done, check out the record, and then yell loudly, either pro or con.  And those folks have too loud of a voice.

He said he's not saying Holtzman should stay, but that the narrative is wrong.

I'd like to read this but my Google-fu is failing me today so if you could provide a link that would be great.  FWIW, I think everyone here knows that I'm not THAT guy.  I follow tOSU BB from the beginning and didn't only check out their record after Ruggles' kick went wide as the ball was dropping in Times Square.  

That said, apparently he's high on Notre Dame's wish list.  CBS named him their #1 target.  That might be a good amicable split.  But yeah, it's not simple.  Texas has had back to back "slam dunk" hires, that failed for different reasons.  North Carolina whiffed on back to back hires, before getting Roy Williams.  Anyone remember when Kentucky fired Tubby Smith for Billy Gillespie?  Duke is off to their worst non-COVD year start since 1996 in their first year without K.  Hell, three of the best coaches in recent Big Ten history (Izzo, Painter, Beilein) delivered the season they needed to (Izzo in 1998, Painter in 2015, Beilein in 2011) when their seats were incredibly hot.  That's all forgotten now.  The rosters in basketball aren't as deep.  The coach is WAY more important than in football.  You get it wrong, things go south quickly.  And the line between hot seat and elite can be one year of the right roster combination.  Holtzman a little got screwed by how Malakhi Branham was mediocre for half a season, then so great for the other half that he left

I explained upthread that my opinion is that HC hiring is more crapshoot than science.  I'm well aware that "slam dunks" can fail as at Texas.  That is why I am of the opinion that when a change needs to be made, the sooner the better.  The hire might be a disaster but we will not know until we try and if it is a disaster we'll fire that guy and try again until we get it right.  

As far as the Malakhi Branham situation, we are six years in.  At this point I really don't care about reasons for failing to compete for league titles or advance past the first weekend in individual years.  There have been six chances and there has been no success, time to move on.  

Finally:

• Izzo was in his third season in 1998, won the league, and went to the S16.  If Holtmann had done that in any of his first six I'd be happy.  He hasn't, I'm not.  
• Painter won league titles in his 5th, 12th, and 14th seasons at Purdue and is poised to win another in his 18th.  He went to the S16 in his 4th, 5th, 12th, 13th, 14th, and 17th seasons at Purdue.  
• Beilein won league titles in his 5th and 7th seasons at Michigan and went to the S16 in his 6th, 7th, 10th, 11th, and 12th.  

[medinabuckeye1]

Finally:

• Izzo was in his third season in 1998, won the league, and went to the S16.  If Holtmann had done that in any of his first six I'd be happy.  He hasn't, I'm not. 
• Painter won league titles in his 5th, 12th, and 14th seasons at Purdue and is poised to win another in his 18th.  He went to the S16 in his 4th, 5th, 12th, 13th, 14th, and 17th seasons at Purdue. 
• Beilein won league titles in his 5th and 7th seasons at Michigan and went to the S16 in his 6th, 7th, 10th, 11th, and 12th. 

In other words:

https://youtu.be/QYAZkczhdMs

[MaximumSam]

The hire might be a disaster but we will not know until we try and if it is a disaster we'll fire that guy and try again until we get it right.  

[Brutus Buckeye]

Yeah, January is the worst possible month for an annual tank job. Like ELA said, that's when most Buckeye fans are starting to tune in, but worse... that's like half the Big Ten season, and mostly the first half. So you are completely out of the hunt right out of the gate. Then all you have to play for is "getting better each day, so that you are peaking in March" which they never are, as Medina has documented.


Textbook post-prime Jim O'Brien was "C Bass off the glass." 2003 Big Ten semifinals, OSU's seldom used 4th string center Charles Bass (6'10/190 lbs) knocked MSU out of the tourney by banking the game winning foul shot off of the backboard.

[Brutus Buckeye]

If he wants to take some fruit from the Cincinnati tree again...

[ELA]

I was actually in East Lansing that weekend interviewing for the honors college as a transfer from Indiana.  I watched the start of that game in the dorm room of a friend I was staying with, while they were drinking, and I was sober and business casual

[ELA]

Stanford is losing at home to Chicago State in a totally empty arena.  Louisville is 2-18.  So, things can always get worse

[847badgerfan]

Worse? How can it get any worse? The Badgers are at the threshold of hell!

[847badgerfan]

Speculation aside, this would be … odd.

See how the season wraps, I suppose. I feel like Oats had a sketchy rep, but I’m not totally sure what that means anymore.

The train is off the rails.

[847badgerfan]

From 247's Evan Flood:


I don't like using the word "quit" at this level, but UW definitely lost its fight. When things started to unravel in the second half, Maryland was first to the glass and first to every loose ball. 


There have been some tough stretches in the Gard era. More often than not, UW lost games because they couldn't make shots. You can probably count the games on one hand where they were completely out-toughed to the point where the Badgers had their will broken like Wednesday.

[bayareabadger]

Worse? How can it get any worse? The Badgers are at the threshold of hell!

Have you met Minnesota?