do we really need 2 threads for this subjectMaybe it'll get buried faster. Hopefully.
do we really need 2 threads for this subjectDid someone already start a 2022-23 thread?
Brad Davison - Bee there forever. Gave his all. Better this year than I expected. Off to ether coach or play in Europe
Chris Vogt - He was a transfer as Big Man insurance, and he did that job as well as could be expected.#1 - Definitely initially read that as he may coach, he may play, but either way, definitely in Europe, and was confused.
#1 - Definitely initially read that as he may coach, he may play, but either way, definitely in Europe, and was confused.I wish a third-division Belgian league team just had a fifth assistant spot waiting for Brad.
#2 - He was the only part of Wisconsin's roster that I thought underachieved. Granted if the expectation was what you said, then he did that. But I thought he could be a solid rotational piece, which he was not
Maybe it'll get buried faster. Hopefully.
Is Illinois losing a lot. I'm honestly not sure.
UW is in an intersting spot. Loses two anchors, but returns three others. Needs a boatload of development or transfers (likely transfers). Also a weird glut of pieces.Coach is optimistic on Lorne bowman coming back.
Leaving:
Johnny Davis - NBA time
Brad Davison - Bee there forever. Gave his all. Better this year than I expected. Off to ether coach or play in Europe
Chris Vogt - He was a transfer as Big Man insurance, and he did that job as well as could be expected.
Returning possible centerpieces
Chucky Hepburn - Good true point guard, came on late in terms of scoring and creating. I expect to be a top end-of-clock option
Steven Crowl - Struggled late in the season, but he should be good. Averaged 9 PPG as a fourth option. Needs to get stronger
Tyler Wahl - Already one of the best technical posts in the league and an all-defense type player. Looked like trash today, but a nice piece to have back
Some "I don't know what to do with" guys
Jahcobi Neath - A transfer this year who was hurt early and never got right. If he's as good as they hoped, he's a three-position guy who could be you're 4th or 5th starter. This year, he was a wing you were not happy to have to play
Jordan Davis - Highly developmental guy who was better than I expected this year, but not all that good If he improves, he's a 3-and-D complimentary guy, but he ain't there yet. If he transferred down after his brother left, I wouldn't be surprised.
Waiting his turn
Ben Carlson - A highly-rated forward, he looked good last year before a back injury, looked terrible for big chunk of this season, but started to stabilize in the final few games. At worst, he's the backup 4, maybe a backup 5, waiting for Wahl to leave. I don't think he transfers, but wouldn't rule it out.
Some folks we're waiting on
Carter Gilmore - Became a guy who played because he was a mobile 4, which UW likes, but the utter inability to hit shots drove him from the rotation. I think he peaks as a 7th man, and I'd bet he's more of a 9th. Considered a transfer last year before getting put on scholarship. Not Big Ten good.
Markus Ilver - Took a functional redshirt. Is a skinny combo forward with a nice shot who showed potential in the preseason. If he becomes a viable player, would be nice.
Matthew Mors - Thick combo forward who did't look super coming in. Redshirted. I dunno what his deal is. If he transferred, I'd be unsurprised as UW is silly deep with bodies there
Chris Hodges - Sturdy power center with a jumper. If he's a viable backup 5, takes something off the table in terms of transfer needs.
I'm not counting on him
Lorne Bowman II - Was supposed to be a guard of the future. Has been dealing with what are probably mental health issues. I'm gonna be surprised if he's back.
Incoming
Connor Essegian - A nice 6-4 shooting wing. I'm a little suspect on that defense, but the jumper looks pure. Wouldn't be surprised if he's a top reserve, but that's just belief that you usually don't recruit guards you don't think could be first off the bench.
Transfer needs
Secondary ball-handler/shooting guard - The problem is gonna be, a point with dreams of big minutes isn't coming with Hepburn back. So you need someone who can be a backup point and play real minutes next to Chucky
Shooting wing - Just always need those, especially with the Davis/Neath questions
A burly center might be in there if Hodges isn't ready, though if he's not ready, he might transfer.
UW right now in theory has one opening, assuming Davis leaves. But I'd bet on some attrition.
Coach is optimistic on Lorne bowman coming back.It's good he's in a good place.
(https://i.imgur.com/kuAf8Xj.png)
I'm optimistic with Jordan Davis. Saw some signs this year, including yesterday.
Johnny is gone. Hopefully he can get healthy now, with that ankle, so he shows out for workouts.
I've read some good things on Mors and Ilver. Both have added weight and good muscle.
Gilmore needs to go play at UWGB or something. He's not a power league player.
As it stands now of course; deleting the seniors, and adding only those already committed.Hell that's even tough figuring out the seniors who are done verses the seniors who still have a COVID year
You can adjust them at any time, as more roster jiggling unfolds.
Wisconsin loses a transfer, Matt More.I was reading that Mors was really progressing. Oh well.
Thick power forward type who seemed to maybe have small forward mobility. Took a redshirt, was reportedly homesick. Badgers are committed at that power forward spot (though the quality behind the starter is suspect).
UW also needs another guard and 1-2 functional wings, at least, so this won't be the last portal action for them this season.
Hell that's even tough figuring out the seniors who are done verses the seniors who still have a COVID yearYeah, it's all f'd up, and it will be for another few years. True freshmen also got the Covid year. Everyone did.
Hell that's even tough figuring out the seniors who are done verses the seniors who still have a COVID yearGone until they say otherwise.
Gone until they say otherwise.That's just wrong
Transfer Portal season begins for the IlliniIllinois could fall off a cliff. I'm pretty sure Plummer, Frazier, Grandson and Hawkins are out of eligibility, and Cockburn is gone. That would be 6 of their top 7 players gone
Andre Curbelo has entered the transfer portal. Had seen rumors of this happening on the Illinois boards.
Illinois could fall off a cliff. I'm pretty sure Plummer, Frazier, Grandson and Hawkins are out of eligibility, and Cockburn is gone. That would be 6 of their top 7 players goneMaybe...maybe not. Hawkins will be just a Junior though there is speculation he may transfer. Grandison still has eligibility but will be 24 or older. I am sure Illinois will be active in the transfer portal. Kofi is likely gone. He won't be drafted. But if he can make just as much with NIL as he would overseas or in the G- league who knows.
He's only 60?Because if you have enough money not to work, I don't know why any sane person (relatively, the job always attracted a certain type) would want to be a major college coach anymore. You already had to kiss boosters and high schoolers asses year round. Now you have to re-recruit your own roster every year, and build relationships just to have some Kentucky booster swoop in with an NIL offer. Not that I'm necessarily against it, but I can certainly see not wanting to do it anymore
I wonder why he would make this move now.
Holy crap. Ohio State Forward Seth Towns returning for - checks notes- SEVENTH season.Tough run for that kid. Six seasons in college, only played in three.
https://www.si.com/nba/2022/04/23/seth-towns-ohio-state-harvard-seventh-year-college-basketball?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=news_tab
Tough run for that kid. Six seasons in college, only played in three.Nothing against Ohio State as an academic institution, but if he was going to be this limited as a basketball player, while still being in school for 7 years, he could have gotten a whole lot of Harvard education out of it, if he had just stayed put
Nothing against Ohio State as an academic institution, but if he was going to be this limited as a basketball player, while still being in school for 7 years, he could have gotten a whole lot of Harvard education out of it, if he had just stayed putInterestingly, he could not have. The Ivy league caps kids at four years.
Interestingly, he could not have. The Ivy league caps kids at four years.I knew they have that rule before, but I thought with the COVID years they revised it. But I'm sure whatever modifications they may or may not have made, it's true he certainly could not have playex 7 years at Harvard. And it's fair, Harvard could certainly not recover from getting a basketball player, a free ride for 7 years
Hunter Dickinson returning for Michigan is huge.Wow. I thought he might be a 1 and done guy, but they're gonna get 3 years out of him.
I knew they have that rule before, but I thought with the COVID years they revised it. But I'm sure whatever modifications they may or may not have made, it's true he certainly could not have playex 7 years at Harvard. And it's fair, Harvard could certainly not recover from getting a basketball player, a free ride for 7 yearsI'm not positive but I think he graduated from Harvard and transferred to tOSU for grad school so by the time he uses up all of his eligibility he'll likely have a Harvard Undergrad Degree and an Ohio State Graduate Degree so I think he'll have gotten a pretty good deal out of it all.
I knew they have that rule before, but I thought with the COVID years they revised it. But I'm sure whatever modifications they may or may not have made, it's true he certainly could not have playex 7 years at Harvard. And it's fair, Harvard could certainly not recover from getting a basketball player, a free ride for 7 yearsHe missed the extra COVID year by one season. And even then, they only allowed for one extra year.
I'm not positive but I think he graduated from Harvard and transferred to tOSU for grad school so by the time he uses up all of his eligibility he'll likely have a Harvard Undergrad Degree and an Ohio State Graduate Degree so I think he'll have gotten a pretty good deal out of it all.Micah Potter's brother is in the portal - football, from OSU.
Still unfortunate he couldn't play ball more (both at Harvard and tOSU).
Wow. I thought he might be a 1 and done guy, but they're gonna get 3 years out of him.It's not 1997
UW gets Wofford transfer Max Klesmit. Looks to be a good pickup. The kid is a Wisconsin native too, with good numbers.And Micah Potter.
They also got Kamari McGee, who transferred from UWGB after one season there. He is also a Wisconsin native, with good numbers.
This is mostly how UW has to approach transfers. In-state kids who wanted to be in Madison in the first place.
Sounds like Emoni Bates transferring to Louisville, because last time they came in out of nowhere to grab an overrated prospect from Michigan, it only landed them in an FBI sting, NCAA probation and Pitino getting fired.So his terms probably haven't changed much from the start of his recruitment? Gotta admire the consistency.
Bates, less then a year ago, said he wasn't going to MSU anymore because he wasn't getting paid there.
What could go wrong?
I don't really care for OOC games after Christmas, to be honest. I'm probably in the minority on this one.I think this is a case of creating a little more buzz-y games late in the season for smaller leagues. Which is fine.
The fish is rotting.This had me thinkings, where is the preverbal head? I think it comes down to two places, but not sure if one is more prevalent.
I think this is a case of creating a little more buzz-y games late in the season for smaller leagues. Which is fine.I think it is a GREAT idea for the smaller leagues. I also really like the flexible scheduling plan employed here and think it would work well for our league as well.
The longer I watch sports, the more interested I am in the divide between overall sport watchers vs. specific team watchers. Basically, how big is the "more good games" upside. For CBB, admittedly somewhat marginal, but probably worth doing. For FB, gets more interesting, as the margins are so small.
I don't really care for OOC games after Christmas, to be honest. I'm probably in the minority on this one.I think I understand where you are coming from but I just disagree. The one thing I really don't like about the Challenge is that there are always a few complete mismatches based on how teams did in the prior year or were expected to do in the current year. By moving these to late in the season and scheduling based on how good the teams actually are in the current season you'd eliminate the complete mismatches. Instead every team would get a relatively comparable opponent.
UW got a commitment from 2023 Top-100 forward Gus Yalden yesterday. Tons of offers. He's a Wisconsin kid, but now living and playing in North Carolina. Good to bring him back home.Interesting guy. Has weight to cut and a bit odd size wise (short, long arms). But he’s a skilled big, and that’s not a bad type to land.
Illinois is just reloading in the transfer market. Can't wait to see this team.I was … not pleased to see that.
Illinois is just reloading in the transfer market. Can't wait to see this team.But are you?
But are you?This is something I kind of wonder about. There's a certain breed of fan that feels this way, to be sure.
They may be very good. But basketball is so contingent on feeling actual connections to the kids, so I actually think the transfers/one and dones have harmed it far more than football. One of my co-workers is a Kentucky fan, and this was a 2018 conversations where he told me how hard it is to really get behind a team full of guys you are familiar with for 3 months.
Christie, Diabate, Houstan all staying the the Draft.It's true.
Not sure the Big Ten has ever lost this much as once. Am enjoy Edey and Dickinson pretending like their decisions are due to "unfinished business"
I don't feel that I know enough about what to expect yet to get a feel for who has the lucky and unlucky draws here.I saw a schedule analysis on Twitter state that Illinois and Michigan got the most favorable draws based on preseason expectations, but with as much year to year turnover as there is now, I'm not sure how accurate that is.
This is the most wide open I can remember the conference being. I guess we'll call Indiana the early favorite, based on returning experience. They were pretty shaky last year though, so I would think it's more likely that one of the unknowns rises up to win the conference. We just don't know which team that might be.MSU fans are scared about how bad our front court is, and CBS just put them #2 behind Indiana. It might be a cluster of like 8 teams that will get somewhere between a 5 and 10 seed behind them. Who finishes #2 and #9 in conference may come down to schedule. If that's true, but Illinois and Michigan have the easiest draws, I might put in a futures bet on one of them to win the conference, because I don't fully trust Indiana, and it may just come down to who has the easiest schedule
This is the most wide open I can remember the conference being. I guess we'll call Indiana the early favorite, based on returning experience. They were pretty shaky last year though, so I would think it's more likely that one of the unknowns rises up to win the conference. We just don't know which team that might be.
MSU fans are scared about how bad our front court is, and CBS just put them #2 behind Indiana. It might be a cluster of like 8 teams that will get somewhere between a 5 and 10 seed behind them. Who finishes #2 and #9 in conference may come down to schedule. If that's true, but Illinois and Michigan have the easiest draws, I might put in a futures bet on one of them to win the conference, because I don't fully trust Indiana, and it may just come down to who has the easiest scheduleThings will probably sort out by the time conference play begins but for now it seems you two and the power ranking list I linked above are all on the same page. Basically tiers of:
So UW is #9.I just addressed that, while you were posting this but two things:
OK.
Last year they were #10.
So UW is #9.I read this as meaning "it is crazy to rank UW that low". Then . . .
OK.
Last year they were #10.
So, who on the current team is the next lottery pick?I read this as meaning "maybe #9 isn't all that ridiculous."
Who replaces the leadership of 17 year player Brad Davison?
I can't see them finishing lower than #4. It's what they do.I get it and when I look at Wisconsin that's how'd I'd explain the optimistic projection. I'd simply state that UW has a long history of developing unheralded recruits and consistently finishing top-4 in the B1G. But . . .
UW is hard to figure this year. I mean, they lost a lottery pick, but that said, nobody would have guessed he was gonna be that going into last year.Pessimistically, can you really expect UW to pull of the complete under-the-radar guy becoming a lottery pick and all of a sudden they are B1G Championship contenders trick again?
So, who on the current team is the next lottery pick?
Who replaces the leadership of 17 year player Brad Davison?
So, who on the current team is the next lottery pick?This is exactly what I am getting at. Based on the program's history I assume that they will find these pieces (maybe not a lottery pick, but good enough to compete for the league title) and finish in the top-4 but I have wavering confidence because I have no idea who those guys will be and once in a while even Wisconsin misses. History:
Who replaces the leadership of 17 year player Brad Davison?
Solid schedule, hoping for a big game or two to pop.Depth is overrated if you can't find a solid 7-8 man rotation. If you have that, you just need depth for practice and in case of injuries. MSU has had a couple of "deep" teams recently, where options #3-11 were all decent bench guys. Nobody stepped up, and this nobody deserved to be cut out. Guys would go for 15 and 8 one night, get an increased role and score 4 points on 1-8 shooting the next game
This team will be testing my theory of depth being overrated unless they land a late transfer who can play or the redshirt freshman steps up (ideally both).
Depth is overrated if you can't find a solid 7-8 man rotation. If you have that, you just need depth for practice and in case of injuries. MSU has had a couple of "deep" teams recently, where options #3-11 were all decent bench guys. Nobody stepped up, and this nobody deserved to be cut out. Guys would go for 15 and 8 one night, get an increased role and score 4 points on 1-8 shooting the next gameThat's mostly the case. You'd rather be top-heavy in college. You only play 40 minutes. You play like twice a week.
Preseason Bracketology is up. Indiana is a 3 (which I won't believe until I see it), but then six teams (UM, Illinois, MSU, PU, Iowa, OSU) between a 6 and 10 seed. Rutgers to Dayton, and Wisconsin Next Four OutIf that projection holds up it will make for an interesting race and a heck of a grind with nobody really great but nine tournament quality teams.
Abbreviated 20 game regular season. 256 team tournament into 32 regionals of 8. Home and home round robin. Winners advance. 2nd and 3rd place teams (64 total) advance to a play in. Play best of 3 at the home of the higher seed. Winner advance, and play best of 3 series on the road against the 32 regional winners.I wonder if the NCAA tourney would ever expand some of the final rounds to a Best 2 out 3 format. I know lots of people would hate that idea and would probably at least double the number of games needed to win the tourney, but part of me hates to see good teams lose early. Maybe once the P2/P3 break away from the NCAA, it might happen.
16 winners advance, start the tournament at the Sweet 16
https://twitter.com/jeffborzello/status/1580363903317385216?t=2EK1e49bb3ROYwyLwEujMg&s=19
On the subject of actual basketball, I’m super interested to see how this Wisconsin lineup shakes out.If you think that is interesting, check out Ohio State's lineup. It has to be the most unusual I've ever seen. There are multiple transfers, guys who didn't play last year returning from injury, highly touted but green true freshman, guys who (with redshirt years, covid years, etc) have been in college for what seems like a decade.
If you think that is interesting, check out Ohio State's lineup. It has to be the most unusual I've ever seen. There are multiple transfers, guys who didn't play last year returning from injury, highly touted but green true freshman, guys who (with redshirt years, covid years, etc) have been in college for what seems like a decade.For some reason I feel like every Ohio State starting lineup of late comes in a little wonky. How many starters did they lose again?
It is a convoluted and unpredictable mix that could be anything from B1G Champions (I doubt it) to non-tournament.
2 of 3 for the final would be good, like baseballIt would be less exciting, but if college basketball just fully adopted the college baseball 64 team format, it would be pretty damn perfect.
Not impressed. Ya gotta beat 'em on the island.OSU coaching staff: “Badge is right, we need to go there, and there are some recruits there. So give us at least a week.”
no Bigs in the top 10?First time since 1977
Kansas suspending Bill Self for the first 4 games of the yearSlap on the wrist.
First time since 1977back when Lute Olson was in Iowa City and Ronnie Lester was a freshman!
Slap on the wrist.Until you realize that based on the reports this morning, Kansas self punished more than Louisville actually got punished by the NCAA
The BobbyMo coach probably stuck around too long. He's not getting those bigger program calls anymore. Granted he's also been the head coach of a D1 basketball program for like 15 years now, and probably raised.his kids on a decent salary, low stress jobI forgot they did win the NEC in 2020, so he would have had another NCAA bid there, if it hadn't been cancelled. The program seems to be out of it's depth now in the Horizon
now that football season is over, roundball is the new hotness. i'm ready for squeaky-cleat season!We all know how you feel but you Bama fans haven't had this feeling in November in a long time.
now that football season is over, roundball is the new hotness. i'm ready for squeaky-cleat season!There is the difference.
There is the difference.Some people are spoiled.
My team is 5-4 and I'm looking forward to the next 3 games and hoping to see a bowl game.
Some people are spoiled.:96:
:96:I knew that was coming and it is fair. Ohio State fans are certainly spoiled in terms of being in contention for the NC deep into the season.
(https://i.imgur.com/jL2oSYt.png)
A) Why are they doing this?Because Stanford was willing to say yes to the stupid idea?
B) Who came up with this ridiculous court layout?
(https://i.imgur.com/5kqVzrz.jpg)
C) Why Stanford, who will bring like 18 fans?
I bet they get 10K tops for this nonsense. There is absolutely no good seat. And where are the TV cameras going to be?almost assuredly. People love weird stuff, and the cost probably isn’t that high.
I'll watch it for sure, but I'm curious if the person who organized this will be employed on Monday.
I bet they get 10K tops for this nonsense. There is absolutely no good seat. And where are the TV cameras going to be?The court glare made for a tough watch. Horrible lighting setup
I'll watch it for sure, but I'm curious if the person who organized this will be employed on Monday.
The court glare made for a tough watch. Horrible lighting setupIt was super hard to watch. Players had a hard time with the sightlines too - both teams.
This team is pretty good when Hauser is shooting like this. Mady Sissoko getting the 3rd year big man bump toohttps://twitter.com/AdamRuffPhoto/status/1592713980392493057?t=ZgKapp4LFGSYV2OAwVpuNw&s=19
the Hoyas aren't what they once wereMourning and Iverson aren't walking through that door. I'd say neither is Ewing, but unfortunately he is
There is the difference.i'm actually enjoying this season for what it is.
My team is 5-4 and I'm looking forward to the next 3 games and hoping to see a bowl game.
Had stuff last night so I didn't watch MSU-Gonzaga til this morning. When Hauser is off, our three point shooting drops off in a hurry, particularly because Walker seems hesitant to shoot.really looking forward to next week. we got bama-msu in hoops on thursday, usa-eng at world cup on friday, iron bowl on sat. plus depending on results on thurs, fri, sat, maybe mid-season tourney title match on sunday. or at least a bball game vs a decent-to-good team.
Very impressed with the bigs, but there is a reason Timme was the national preseason player of the year. He started systematically fouling them out one by one down the stretch. A 1 point loss to the #2 team ain't the worst thing, but with Kentucky, Villanova, Alabama, UConn, ND coming up next, not a lot of room for moral victories
He's a real peach, eh?I still don't understand how he wasn't fired after he swung on another coach. His ass should've been gone right then and there. They fired the football coach for doing WAY less. Gary Moeller got fired for being drunk in public. Howard punched another coach on the court in a game. Wondering if his race has anything to do with it. If it was a white guy his ass would've been gone imo.
Other P5 programs struggling, FSU and Cal are both 0-4That Florida State thing is kind of stunning. Cal much less so.
MSU almost blew another double digit lead, but hung on to beat Villanova by 2
Pretty ugly is about all I can say.Not getting any better. Since I posted that:
(https://i.imgur.com/AtOLv1z.png)LoL
The Maui tournament is generally worth watching a bit for cliff's notes fans like me, but with that floor? Makes Oregon blush.I love Maui, but with other options, the travel logistics of going to Hawaii has certainly diminished that tournament. I remember when the only tournaments were Maui, Alaska and Preseason NIT. 2 of those 3 no longer exist, so I'm rooting for Maui. Granted the boot kissing Phil Knight Tournaments every 5 years also take away from the potential entrants, plus Kentucky refusing to participate. So I get it this year, when UNC, Duke, MSU, Purdue, Gonzaga, Villanova, UConn, Florida, Oregon, Alabama, ISU, Xavier and Oregon State are all committed to a "Thank You Nike" tournament that only exists every 5 years
Also, Ohio State looked awesome tonightIs it that or does Cincinnati just suck?
Is it that or does Cincinnati just suck?I doubt they suck. This is certainly not a vintage Cincinnati team, but I think they are a solid NIT team, and OSU blasted them.
Not getting any better. Since I posted that:They played in Vegas.
- Illinois lost at home to UVA
- Michigan needed OT at home to beat a NAC school
- Ohio State got drilled by SDSU in Maui
- Minnesota needed OT at home to escape California Baptist (which I've never even heard of) by a single point
They played in Vegas.and the gophers were actually in the So Cal semi finals (4 teams) and played on Cal Baptist home court and the gophers best player saw action for first time after foot surgery
They played in Vegas.My bad.
Except for Michigan, who sucks.They have looked awful the last two games. Only two that have looked good are Jett Howard and Dickinson. Terrance Williams has been decent. Guard play has been awful. Just awful outside of Jett at 3. When Dickinson and Howard have average games it’s terrible.
Two more quality wins, though Wisconsin may have committed some crimes against basketball.Much like German politics, Wisconsin is at their strongest when committing atrocities
Much like German politics, Wisconsin is at their strongest when committing atrocitiesMy god
My godSomeone made a typo. He was only 3-6.
(https://i.imgur.com/AGkxKWr.png)
That Wisconsin game was hard on the eyes.Didn’t watch the game, but heard the score. Did they have a guy with a stick who had to poke the ball of the basket after each made shot?
On the bright side, all the players who have shown themselves to be good Big Ten players are playing bad, so chances are low they'll be awful all year. Also, the guard transfer from Wofford had a massive block, which I did not expect.
I think there's a loss to Kansas coming, but then should get a solid game in the morning Friday. I told family I'd spend time with them outside, a choice I may regret.
Meanwhile. Another 43-42 doozy. #13 Auburn over Northwestern. Combined 27-105 from the field. They were 57 points under the Vegas total.Auburn and Alabama play a style that is terrible to watch at the college level. It may be correct based on the analytics, but it is glorified AAU basketball. It usually works, and at times is very efficient, but is generally awful to watch. Guys just jacking up terrible three-pointers
Ohio State got a win over a ranked TxTech team in the fifth place game in Maui.I know you have been down on the conference, But considering the preseason consensus was that Indiana was the clear-cut favorite, and then we had about eight teams that were seeded between a 6 and a 10, I think we've actually looked pretty good. I think every team except Michigan has looked better than expected, and Michigan hasn't looked bad, they've just looked slightly worse than expected
That Wisconsin game was hard on the eyes.The lighting in there doesn't help either.
On the bright side, all the players who have shown themselves to be good Big Ten players are playing bad, so chances are low they'll be awful all year. Also, the guard transfer from Wofford had a massive block, which I did not expect.
I think there's a loss to Kansas coming, but then should get a solid game in the morning Friday. I told family I'd spend time with them outside, a choice I may regret.
The lighting in there doesn't help either.Would liked if yesterday's player of the game had hit 1-2 of those open 3s thus far today. Gonna need them.
Klesmit... yeah. Up until that point I was thinking "why is he on the floor" as he was just running around sporadically. I thought the player of the game should have played more. He was the only kid who could score yesterday.
Is Kansas good?
This is both what I expected to a degree and not enjoyable.43 points in a half is not what I expected
Well, glad we banked a couple nice wins before this weekendMSU down two starters for 3 weeks with stress reactions in their feet. Seems like somehow every year we have that same injury. Sometimes it's just 2 weeks, then with Joshua Langford it ends up being two years
https://twitter.com/BFQuinn/status/1595656329544212480?s=20&t=d9KcWg06emgjStUO3HhDYg
MSU down two starters for 3 weeks with stress reactions in their feet. Seems like somehow every year we have that same injury. Sometimes it's just 2 weeks, then with Joshua Langford it ends up being two yearsI was just thinking that. So weird.
This is both what I expected to a degree and not enjoyable.Watched H2 in the airport. At the start, I looked at the score and said no way. Then, it started happening. Finally, they ripped my heart out. It was a shitty flight.
43 points in a half is not what I expectedYeah, considering they had 43 in a whole game 24 hours earlier.
does she hate listening to him too?He's fine when he's doing an 11:00 Oregon State-Cal game on espn2. It's these preseason tournaments with good teams, in prime time, where it's obnoxious
MSU down two starters for 3 weeks with stress reactions in their feet. Seems like somehow every year we have that same injury. Sometimes it's just 2 weeks, then with Joshua Langford it ends up being two yearsStress fractures = playing too much basketball.
My phone says that MSU is playing a game that starts at (checks phone), midnight?Perfect place to hide them right now. Thank goodness they beat Kentucky and Villanova when healthy, because they are a wreck now. Walk on and two true freshmen who didn't play in the Kentucky game in at the first TV timeout? Yikes
This could turn into one helluvan incredible 4-day span if then can TCoB vs IU for the Bucket tmrw and then beat Duke on Sunday.Sparty pulls it out
And man is MSU trying to hold on for dear life vs Ore.
Very nice weekend for WisconsinCould have been even better, but I'll take it.
He's fine when he's doing an 11:00 Oregon State-Cal game on espn2. It's these preseason tournaments with good teams, in prime time, where it's obnoxious3 straight games with him. got my fill for a long long while.
I'm guessing the Big Ten/Big 12 challenge is coming soon. Maybe, I can't remember the media rights of these conferences anymore.Big Ten-Big East?
the Big 12 plays many football games on Fox and FS1And basketball wise, the dropoff isn't as steep as football. Memphis, BYU and Cincinnati have all had decent teams at time, and Houston is a legit top 5 program right now
And basketball wise, the dropoff isn't as steep as football. Memphis, BYU and Cincinnati have all had decent teams at time, and Houston is a legit top 5 program right nowOh yeah the Big 12 is great and trading Texas and Oklahoma for those teams is a wash.
I’ll save you the time from watching this one. Michigan loses by 15+.
- Michigan vs UVA at 930 Tuesday on ESPN
ESPN and the ap on my phone are only giving me lines for tonight's games. I was trying to look that up just to get an idea what my expectations should be for the conference overall in the Challenge. What does everyone think?Using BPI, Big Ten wins 8-6. So from best to worst odds....
- Minnesota +11.5 at VaTech tonight at 7 on ESPN2
- Northwestern -7 vs Pitt tonight at 9 on ESPN2
- Maryland -10 at Louisville at 7 Tuesday on ESPN2
- PSU +3 at Clemson at 7 Tuesday on ESPNU
- Illinois -12.5 vs Cuse at 730 Tuesday on ESPN
- Iowa -14 vs GaTech at 9 Tuesday on ?
- Wisconsin -5 vs Wake at 9 Tuesday on ?
- Michigan +4 vs UVA at 930 Tuesday on ESPN
- Ohio State +2 at Dook at 715 Wednesday on ESPN
- Purdue -4.5 at FSU at 715 Wednesday on ESPN2
- Rutgers +5.5 at Miami at 715 Wednesday on ESPNU
- Indiana -9 vs UNC at 915 Wednesday on ESPN
- MSU +2.5 at ND at 915 Wednesday on ESPN2
- Nebraska -7 vs BC at 915 Wednesday on ESPNU
Using BPI, Big Ten wins 8-6. So from best to worst odds....Thank you for doing that @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) .
- Iowa -14
- Illinois -12.5
- Maryland -10
- Indiana -9
- Nebraska -7
- Northwestern -7
- Wisconsin -5
- Purdue -4.5
- OSU +2
- MSU +2.5
- PSU +3
- Michigan +4
- Rutgers +5.5
- Minnesota +11.5
Thank you for doing that @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) .And BPI has to be slow to adjust. Purdue just beat Gonzaga and Duke to reach #4, and Florida State is 1-7, and have played basically nobody. They have been the worst P5 team to date. No clue how Purdue is just a 4.5 point favorite there
Minnesota lost about as expected but Northwestern which was favored got absolutely drilled so now we are at a projected 7-7. I kinda like our odds though because we have three that are underdogs by <3 and all of our favorites are favored by at least 4.5.
And BPI has to be slow to adjust. Purdue just beat Gonzaga and Duke to reach #4, and Florida State is 1-7, and have played basically nobody. They have been the worst P5 team to date. No clue how Purdue is just a 4.5 point favorite thereRedone with the actual lines for tonight's games
Rearranged to pull out the two games we already lost:So we are 0-2 and BPI/Vegas says we should win seven and lose five of the rest. I like our odds because we don't have any hopeless underdogs (like Minnesota was), we don't have any really close favorites, and we have three really close underdogs. Basically I'd group these as:
- Iowa
-14-16- Maryland
-10-13- Illinois -12.5
- Indiana -9
- Nebraska -7
- Wisconsin
-5-5.5- Purdue -4.5
- PSU
+3+1.5- OSU +2
- MSU +2.5
- Michigan
+4+3.5- Rutgers +5.5
So we are 0-2 and BPI/Vegas says we should win seven and lose five of the rest. I like our odds because we don't have any hopeless underdogs (like Minnesota was), we don't have any really close favorites, and we have three really close underdogs. Basically I'd group these as:Well, Wisconsin getting upset, and Michigan not taking advantage of the late ref gifts might lose us the final one
- Four that should win easily, IA, UMD, IL, IU
- Three that should win but it is somewhat close, UNL, UE, PU
- Three that are nearly toss-ups, PSU, tOSU, MSU
- Two that should lose but it is somewhat close, M, RU
Well, Wisconsin getting upset, and Michigan not taking advantage of the late ref gifts might lose us the final oneYeah, not looking so good now.
I think Michigan is going to regret running off Frankie Collins for this transfer, their offense appears to be just jacking up threes, or hoping Dickerson can win one on ones. Juwan is a defense coach, and it's clear he has no sets in the half court. He needs a PG to run some stuff, and Llewellyn isn't thatCompletely agree with this. The Michigan backcourt is rough to watch. The first half isn’t going to be replicable very often.
I think the UM-MSU rivalry toxicity would be solved if MSU would go back to sucking at football, and UM sucking at basketball. Then, there are no stakes other than pulling an upset, and seeing MSU's sad football attendance this year, and now UMs sad basketball attendance, I don't think the fan bases would actually care that muchMichigan sucking at basketball and MSU being really good at basketball meanwhile Michigan being really good at football and Michigan State sucking at football just feels right to me. Like, that's the way it's suppose to be.
We were favored to win 8-6 but ended up losing 8-6 because none of our underdogs managed to pull an upset and two of our favorites lost badly.Medina, I wonder if part of the reason you are sad to see it go is because Ohio State is a high profile program that almost always gets an exciting matchup out of it. I know a lot of fans from both conferences who are tired of being in the same, non-glamorous pairings every time. (I won't name names, but one of my ACC friends complained that once again they were assigned "a game with one of the four dregs of the B1G that we always get"). It seems like in the beginning, and I was there on the other side, they were matched up for the most part by previous season rank, with little "finagling."
Apparently this thing is now over and we lost overall 13-8-3 in 24 years. I'll add some good and some bad perspective to that:
- Good: After losing the first ten (1999-2008) the B1G went 8-3-3 the past 14 years.
- Bad: Two of the three losses were BAD (11-3 in 2017 and 9-5 in 2016) while nearly all the wins were 8-6 or 7-5 type deals.
I'll be sad to see it go.
Medina, I wonder if part of the reason you are sad to see it go is because Ohio State is a high profile program that almost always gets an exciting matchup out of it. I know a lot of fans from both conferences who are tired of being in the same, non-glamorous pairings every time. (I won't name names, but one of my ACC friends complained that once again they were assigned "a game with one of the four dregs of the B1G that we always get"). It seems like in the beginning, and I was there on the other side, they were matched up for the most part by previous season rank, with little "finagling."I liked it prior to massive conference realignment. There was some amount of conference pride. Now, we've got a former ACC team (Maryland) playing a former Big East team (Louisville), so I can't get into that anymore than I would any random Big Ten non conference
I think there was more "finagling" as the years went by, and the high profile teams played each other more and every year. I have no proof, and I don't know whether that motivation came from coaches, ESPN, or both (or maybe I am completely wrong).
Also, the Terps sucked in it once we got onto the B1G side, and not because of difficult matchups (I'm relatively certain the power teams in the ACC refused to be matched with the "traitors", although of course I have no proof except for Mike Krzyzewski, who said it openly).
So I think it is a tired arrangement that will not be missed. Time to do it with somebody new...
I liked it prior to massive conference realignment. There was some amount of conference pride. Now, we've got a former ACC team (Maryland) playing a former Big East team (Louisville), so I can't get into that anymore than I would any random Big Ten non conferenceYou know what the fans would love, but the conferences would hate? Preseason tournaments that were just conference tournaments based on pre-realignment affiliations. The Big Ten would exclusively lose teams, but you hear stories of those ACC tournaments where they would take whole schools into the auditorium to watch. Who wouldn't sign up for a Feast Week of 1989 conference tournaments?
Medina, I wonder if part of the reason you are sad to see it go is because Ohio State is a high profile program that almost always gets an exciting matchup out of it. I know a lot of fans from both conferences who are tired of being in the same, non-glamorous pairings every time. (I won't name names, but one of my ACC friends complained that once again they were assigned "a game with one of the four dregs of the B1G that we always get"). It seems like in the beginning, and I was there on the other side, they were matched up for the most part by previous season rank, with little "finagling."Well there is this:
I think there was more "finagling" as the years went by, and the high profile teams played each other more and every year. I have no proof, and I don't know whether that motivation came from coaches, ESPN, or both (or maybe I am completely wrong).
Also, the Terps sucked in it once we got onto the B1G side, and not because of difficult matchups (I'm relatively certain the power teams in the ACC refused to be matched with the "traitors", although of course I have no proof except for Mike Krzyzewski, who said it openly).
So I think it is a tired arrangement that will not be missed. Time to do it with somebody new...
I liked it prior to massive conference realignment. There was some amount of conference pride. Now, we've got a former ACC team (Maryland) playing a former Big East team (Louisville), so I can't get into that anymore than I would any random Big Ten non conferenceIn deference to you and your team, it is just harder for me to get into the "conference pride" angle with respect to a team that wasn't in my team's conference when I was growing up, when I was in school, or for a number of years after that than it is for me to get into that with one of the teams that has been in my team's conference for 100+ years or even PSU that joined when I was a Freshman at Ohio State.
Sheesh. ELA, I know that you are busy with not being able to take your eyes off of the traffic accident that is ND / MSU, but since I know you are such a fan of crowds booing every call, I reccomend not turning on the IU / NC game.Eh, Indiana was -17 in FTs at home at one point. They were booing 50/50 calls. They weren't booing like obvious backcourt violations and whatnot
Eh, Indiana was -17 in FTs at home at one point. They were booing 50/50 calls. They weren't booing like obvious backcourt violations and whatnotNot in the first half though. They were booing EVERYTHING.
Well there is this:In deference to you and your team, it is just harder for me to get into the "conference pride" angle with respect to a team that wasn't in my team's conference when I was growing up, when I was in school, or for a number of years after that than it is for me to get into that with one of the teams that has been in my team's conference for 100+ years or even PSU that joined when I was a Freshman at Ohio State.
That said, one of the things I always liked about it was that I felt that it was a good indicator of how things would go depending on where my team ended up. In that regard, as an Ohio State fan, I've seen everything:No matter where my team ends up on that scale, the result of the Challenge was always something I kinda relied on, ie:
- I've seen my team as a bottom-feeder not even in the running for the NIT.
- I've seen my team as an NIT bubble-team.
- I've seen my team as a solid NIT team.
- I've seen my team as an NCAA bubble team.
- I've seen my team as a midrange NCAA team.
- I've seen my team as a high seed in the NCAA.
- I've seen my team as a #1 seed in the NCAA.
- If my team is an NIT bubble team and the B1G won the Challenge, that helps push them in. If the B1G lost, that might push them out.
- If my team is a solid NIT team and the B1G won the Challenge, that improves their seed. If the B1G lost, they hurts their seed.
- If my team is an NCAA bubble team and the B1G won the Challenge, that helps get them in. If the B1G lost, that might push them out.
- If my team is a midrange NCAA team and the B1G won the Challenge, maybe #4 or #5 instead of #6 or #7.
- If my team is a high seed in the NCAA and the B1G won the Challenge, maybe #2 or #3 instead of #4 or #5.
- If my team is competing for a #1 seed in the NCAA, it helps to be the Champion and/or Tournament Champion of a B1G that WON the Challenge rather than of a B1G that LOST the Challenge.
I realize that you can effectively get to the same place by having all the teams schedule their own OOC games but I just liked the quick-view of how the B1G stacks up next to the ACC (sometimes can be misleading).
Another way of looking at it is that for the bulk of the season B1G teams are playing B1G teams and I really don't feel like I have much of a rooting interest in those games. Lets say that tOSU upsets Purdue twice (Thursday, January 5 in Columbus, Sunday, February 19 in West Lafayette) and loses twice to MSU (Sunday, February 12 in Columbus, Saturday, March 4 in East Lansing). Ok, when Purdue and MSU play (Monday, January 16 in East Lansing, Sunday, January 29 in West Lafayette), I have an interest if my team needs one of them to lose to potentially win the league but otherwise it is a wash. A Purdue win makes Ohio State's wins over Purdue look better but it also makes Ohio State's losses to MSU look worse and vice versa for an MSU win. OOC games are different. Purdue's win over FSU was unequivocally good for the Buckeyes (and your Terps and all other B1G teams) and MSU's loss to Notre Dame was unequivocally bad for the Buckeyes (and your Terps and all other B1G teams) because we are all going to play PU and MSU at least once each and we are going to play a slew of teams that also played them at least once each so each of our SoS's improved when Purdue beat FSU and declined when MSU lost to ND.
I DO understand that the above paragraph effectively applies to all OOC games played by all B1G teams but it is just easier to see it when it is wrapped up in a Challenge.
As far as the seeding of the thing goes, I don't understand it. How did tOSU end up playing Dook again?
Final Standings from last year:2022 Challenge match-ups:
- Illinois/Dook
- Wisconsin/Notre Dame
- Purdue/UNC
- Iowa/Miami
- Rutgers/Wake
- tOSU/UVA
- MSU/VaTech
- M/FSU
- Indiana/Cuse
- Maryland/Clemson
- Penn State/Louisville
- Northwestern/Boston College
- Nebraska/Pitt
- Minnesota/GaTech (then NCST was #15)
So a couple things:
- #1 Illinois vs #9 Cuse
- #2 Wisconsin vs #5 Wake
- #3 Purdue vs #8 FSU
- #4 Iowa vs #13 GaTech
- #5 Rutgers vs #4 Miami
- #6 tOSU vs #1 Dook
- #7 MSU vs #2 Notre Dame
- #8 M vs #6 UVA
- #9 Indiana vs #3 UNC
- #10 Maryland vs #11 Louisville
- #11 Penn State vs #10 Clemson
- #12 Northwestern vs #12 BC
- #13 Nebraska vs #12 BC
- #14 Minnesota vs #7 VaTech
First, it has always annoyed me that the uneven numbers of teams at various times ALWAYS seemed to work against the B1G. When the ACC has had more (as currently) the team left out ends up being a terrible team (NCST this year, BC last year). Yet, when the B1G had more teams the B1G teams that didn't play were always middling or better. I think that is a big part of the ACC's lead in this thing. When they've had more teams they've generally been able to dump a bottom feeder.
Second, who made those match-ups? Ohio State isn't at Dook's level. It was great that the Buckeyes took them out last year but this year the Buckeyes got sent to Durham where frankly the best teams in the B1G would probably struggle and even though I thought the Buckeyes played a pretty good game, the Blue Devils were just too much, especially at home. Ohio State is 10-12 overall in this thing and part of the reason they aren't better is that they always seem to get matched with a Dook or somesuch. That is fine during times when tOSU IS at that level but we aren't now. Ohio State finished mid-pack in the B1G last year and is projected to finish mid-pack in the B1G this year. The Buckeyes should have been playing a middling ACC team.
Understand that I'm not exactly complaining here. As a fan I'd much rather watch my team have a chance to score a HUGE upset in Durham against Dook than watch my team trying to avoid an upset in Atlanta against GaTech. That said, for the league as a whole and for better match-ups as a whole I'd rather see the best in the B1G play the best in the ACC etc. Then, if you (as a Maryland fan) don't like your matchup, I'd tell you to get a better team. Better teams get better match-ups.
My first resume only Bracket of the year (2/3 SOR, 1/3 KenPom), for now using SOR to determine regular season champ, and KenPom for tourney champ12/5 Update
I don't know how Illinois won that game. They turn the ball over way too much and stink at free throws but the defense is pretty stout.We'll take it! Getting a split in NYC as underdogs to #2 and #15 is pretty good!
WOW! What an ending!For those who didn't see it:
For those who didn't see it:https://twitter.com/MrMatthewCFB/status/1601035447102472192?t=Z54NLoBphNo6SL4VDZwxNw&s=19
Ohio State was down 65-64 with under 10 seconds to go after hitting a FT.
Rutgers inbounded and Ohio State didn't get the steal so they had to foul.
Rutgers hit the front end of a one-and-one but missed the second FT making it 66-64 Rutgers when Ohio State got the rebound.
Ohio State got to just past mid-court and ran out of time so they had to heave up a prayer from roughly mid-court. The clock hit zero while the ball was in the air and it went in for a 67-66 tOSU win.
Horrible reffing though. Buzzer Beater should have been called off. Tanner Holden was well out of bounds and jumped back in to receive the ball before launching it. That's a turnover (you can't be the first to receive the ball from a passer if you have been out of bounds).That's not true. You have to establish both feet in bounds first. Guys run out of bounds along the base line to shoot corner threes all the time.
Need to figure out tiers pretty soon, current KenPom:Huskers with a cornsiderable bump after taking down #7 on the road?
- #5 Purdue
- #10 Indiana
- #12 Illinois
- #19 Maryland
- #20 Iowa
- #21 Ohio State
- #27 Rutgers
- #37 Michigan State
- #42 Wisconsin
- #45 Michigan
- #47 Penn State
- #63 Northwestern
- #81 Nebraska
- #158 Minnesota
That's not true. You have to establish both feet in bounds first. Guys run out of bounds along the base line to shoot corner threes all the time."Play 1: Two players for team A set a double screen near the endline. A1, using the screen in an effort to lose a defender, intentionally runs around the screen in the out-of-bounds area behind the basket and returns to the playing court on the other side just beyond the three-point arc. After stepping back onto the court A1 is the first to receive a pass, shooting the ball for a successful three-point goal. Ruling 1: According to NFHS rule 9-3-3, a violation occurred and a whistle should be sounded the moment A1 stepped out of bounds. According to NCAA rule 9-3.1, since A1 stepped out of bounds voluntarily, the moment A1 first touched the ball after returning to the court, a violation occurred."
Also, if you are Nebraska WR, the rule doesn't apply
And even if you are right and the above is wrong, I'm pretty sure that he received the ball while in the air while coming in from out of bounds. He never established both feet.And that is the issue.
Need to figure out tiers pretty soon, current KenPom:This is usually entering the time of garbage games, so I would say there is not much to wait for, absent a major upset.
- #5 Purdue
- #10 Indiana
- #12 Illinois
- #19 Maryland
- #20 Iowa
- #21 Ohio State
- #27 Rutgers
- #37 Michigan State
- #42 Wisconsin
- #45 Michigan
- #47 Penn State
- #63 Northwestern
- #81 Nebraska
- #158 Minnesota
Timeline, thoughts, questions:
There are a few league games this weekend then league games pause almost until NYE. Therefore, my thinking for a timeline is that I'd like to nail down our initial tiers next week. That way we can include the results of this weekend's games in our analysis.
Indiana was projected to be the best in the league but now it looks to me like we have a top tier of the Boilermakers, the Hoosiers, and the Illini. We'll see.
So my initial thoughts before this weekend's games are included would be:If we go with those tiers, the upsets so far are:
- Purdue, Indiana, Illinois
- Maryland, Iowa, Ohio State, Rutgers, Michigan State (normally I would stop at RU and move MSU down but call this the Izzo bonus)
- UW, M, PSU
- NU, UNL
- blank
- Minnesota
Those cancel out for MSU while NU is +1 and PSU is -1.
- NU's win at MSU
- MSU's win at PSU
Official section 9.3 of the NCAA rulebook:Yes, the first player to touch the ball, is the player with the ball. As long as he was reestablished, he was fine
Section 3. Player Out of Bounds
Art. 1. A player who steps out of bounds under the player's own volition and then becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court has committed a violation.
a. A violation has not been committed when a player, who steps out of bounds as permitted by Rule 7-4.6.b, does not receive the pass along the end line from a teammate and is the first to touch the ball after returning to the playing court.
b. A player whose momentum causes that player to go out of bounds may be the first to touch the ball inbounds if that player reestablishes one foot inbounds prior to touching the ball.
If the tournament actually meant anything, it would be really fun this year. Conference goes 13 deep (only Minnesota sucks), and the only teams who have proven anything are Purdue and IllinoisI've been to one in Chicago and one in NYC and I highly recommend it. It really is a lot of fun. Also Chicago has a lot of other things to see and their St. Patrick's Day Parade and dyeing the river Green are on March 11 so if you go for the tournament you can see that too.
Yeah, it's fun, but ultimately the only games that "matter" are some Thursday games for the bubble teams, because we have a format the rewards Power conference mediocrity. The actual conference tourney title contenders are generally already locksWith the exception of Illinois when they made the CG as the lowest seed (I think #11 back when we were the Big11Ten) and maybe one or two others this is true as far as making the tournament goes. Seeding can be helped or hurt though so teams have something to play for.
Penn State absolutely blasted Illinois in Champaign. Didn't see that comingCrazy day.
Who had 0-8 Louisville playing 1-9 Florida State?
And FSU is killing them. Louisville might be as bad as any P5 team in recent memory
Northwestern continued their annual tradition of playing their best game of the season against MSU, but at least ground out a win against Prairie View.I have been hammering the portal too. Their decent top scorer from last year has seemed to struggle a bit, as it is their highly thought of UNC transfer
I think Minnesota hired the right coach, seems like a bright guy, but the talent level should still be this low in Year 2. The gap between #13 and the Gophers is HUGE
Massey Composite Rankings (35 rankings - last week in parentheses)You have commented on it already, but this gap is staggering. Nebraska at #78 isn't quite a tournament team but they aren't that far off. In this league we have 13 tournament quality or near tournament quality teams then a humongous gap.
- 78. Nebraska (71)
- 175. Minnesota (156)
Based on our tiers, the standings after the final weekend in January (roughly the halfway point of the conference season) project to be:This won't be close.
- 9-1 Illinois
- 9-2 Purdue
- 7-3 Indiana
- 7-4 Iowa
- 6-4 Ohio State
- 6-4 Rutgers
- 6-5 Michigan State
- 5-5 Maryland
- 5-5 Michigan
- 4-6 Wisconsin
- 3-7 Northwestern
- 3-7 Penn State
- 2-9 Nebraska
- 0-10 Minnesota
So we can look back after the Sunday, January 29 games and see how close we were.
My first resume only Bracket of the year (2/3 SOR, 1/3 KenPom), for now using SOR to determine regular season champ, and KenPom for tourney champ12/13 Update
Isn't the WC final on Sunday?Yeah, it's the 3rd place match on Saturday. Why is that a thing?
I wouldn't normally post a mid-week update and I'm late with this but Wisconsin's win at Iowa on Sunday was our last league game until December 29. Thus, the current projections will not change for at least two weeks so here they are. First, the tiers are:I'd move Illinois and Indiana down, and Wisconsin up. Possibly MSU down to #3, but I know you aren't because of Izzo
- PU, IL, IU
- IA, tOSU, RU, UMD, MSU
- UW, M, PSU
- UNL, NU
- BLANK
- MN
https://twitter.com/totally_t_bomb/status/1603198528305537024?s=20&t=KOBTKuv4Ye4pBAwwGTK_7gLoL
Didn't PSU just curb stomp Illinois @ Illinois? Missing "upset"?You are right and thanks for catching that. I forgot to enter game results from the December 10 games. It didn't matter for PU/UNL because PU won as expected (although not as convincingly as expected) but it matters for Penn State's road upset of Illinois. That makes the following changes to the projections:
I'd move Illinois and Indiana down, and Wisconsin up. Possibly MSU down to #3, but I know you aren't because of Izzo
UW sleepwalked through the first half against Lehigh last night - entering the half down 32-31. Not sure what went on in that locker room at the half, but the Badgers won 78-56.46 points in a half is a lot fir any team. For Wisconsin it is astounding.
Some interesting games tomorrow with almost the entire league playing this weekend:cbb at large is a great weekend.
- IU+5.5 at Kansas at noon, ESPN2
- RU-11 hosts Wake at noon, BTN
- NU-6.5 hosts DePaul at 2, BTN
- tOSU pk vs UNC in MSG at 3, CBS
- IL hosts BamaA&M at 4, BTN
- M hosts Lipscomb at 4, BTN+
- PU-15 hosts Davidson at 615, BTN
- UNL+2 vs KSU in KC at 7, ESPN
- IA-22 hosts SEMizzouSt at 830, BTN
- PSU hosts Canisius at noon Sunday, BTN
46 points in a half is a lot fir any team. For Wisconsin it is astounding.Bo Ryan is not coaching anymore. Gard has changed things up, quite a bit. Style depends on the opponent, and who is on the floor at the time.
That isn't a knock on Wisconsin, just their style doesn't generally lend itself to scoring a lot of points.
Bo Ryan is not coaching anymore. Gard has changed things up, quite a bit. Style depends on the opponent, and who is on the floor at the time.I mean, they're still 341 in pace.
Top-4 finish in the B1G would be wonderful. I think they can pull that off, with only one more solid contributor stepping up. Maybe Neith is that guy. He's been out sick, apparently?? Has not played in over a month now.The weird part is that if he came back, he would just show up the deepest position they already have.
FWIW:18th on KenPom. 25th on Torvik. I'm pretty happy given the uncertainty they had coming in. They also have been missing a starter the past two games and Eugene Brown has yet to play. Hard for me to see anything but goodness in that. The B1G, yet again, has a lot of good teams, so tiers are going to be especially difficult this year.
I think that Ohio State needs to drop down a tier. The Buckeyes simply aren't very good.
- They needed a probable officiating mistake and a miracle heave to beat Rutgers at home. Rutgers isn't a bad team and that would have been a great win on the road but at home it is pretty weak.
- They just lost to a weak North Carolina team.
- Their only quality wins are the miracle over Rutgers, a win over TxTech in Maui, and *MAYBE* the win over Cincinnati.
18th on KenPom. 25th on Torvik. I'm pretty happy given the uncertainty they had coming in. They also have been missing a starter the past two games and Eugene Brown has yet to play. Hard for me to see anything but goodness in that. The B1G, yet again, has a lot of good teams, so tiers are going to be especially difficult this year.I hope you are right, but I'm not seeing it.
I hope you are right, but I'm not seeing it.Well, Purdue just went to OT at Nebraska and got all they wanted at home to Davidson. Certainly, they've been the best team in the conference, but I'm not sure that warrants moving them up right now. They have to go through the meat grinder like everyone else.
Maybe the issue is that instead of moving Illinois and Indiana down, we should move Purdue up.
Well, Purdue just went to OT at Nebraska and got all they wanted at home to Davidson. Certainly, they've been the best team in the conference, but I'm not sure that warrants moving them up right now. They have to go through the meat grinder like everyone else.Have your arguments ready for January 9.
My first resume only Bracket of the year (2/3 SOR, 1/3 KenPom), for now using SOR to determine regular season champ, and KenPom for tourney champ12/19 Update
12/19 UpdateI think you are probably right but this would project VERY poorly in the Tournament. You have:
Iowa 83That changes my perception of Wisconsin's win at Iowa:
3-9 Eastern Illinois 92
AT Iowa?
For real?
Iowa without Kris Murray is a totally different team. Lost to Wisconsin, now losing at home to Eastern IllinoisIt looks like maybe UW>IA should be attributed to Iowa being terrible in their current state.
Hunter Dickinson tried to kick a guy in the face last night, he has to be the easiest player to hate in Big Ten historyMaybe his coach needs to reign him in. Oh wait...
Maybe his coach needs to reign him in. Oh wait...He was too busy yelling at his own players to "not f***ing touch him," lucky he didn't punch one of them too apparently for touching him
That changes my perception of Wisconsin's win at Iowa:It looks like maybe UW>IA should be attributed to Iowa being terrible in their current state.It shouldn't. Rivalry game on the road versus a supposed tune up during finals before Christmas are two very different things.
He was too busy yelling at his own players to "not f***ing touch him," lucky he didn't punch one of them too apparently for touching himI'm honestly shocked he still has a job. He's a complete tool.
It shouldn't. Rivalry game on the road versus a supposed tune up during finals before Christmas are two very different things.I do think overall that Wisconsin should probably move up a tier, I just don't want to read too much into one game (UW>IA) especially considering Iowa's performance in their next game.
UW's last day for finals is today, and they play Grambling tomorrow. I fully expect a dog fight.
That is why they play the games.
Iowa without Kris Murray is a totally different team. Lost to Wisconsin, now losing at home to Eastern IllinoisAnd now Minnesota only up 1 on Chicago State, perenially one of the worst teams in college basketball, at home with 2 minutes left
I do think overall that Wisconsin should probably move up a tier, I just don't want to read too much into one game (UW>IA) especially considering Iowa's performance in their next game.Tomorrow's tune-up is cancelled and will not be rescheduled.
As stated upthread, have your arguments ready for January 9. I'm planning to wait until then to rearrange the tiers so that we get a few league games worth of data first.
Between now and then the Badgers have two tune-ups, a home game against an awful Minnesota team, and a road game at Illinois.
Top-4 finish in the B1G would be wonderful. I think they can pull that off, with only one more solid contributor stepping up. Maybe Neith is that guy. He's been out sick, apparently?? Has not played in over a month now.Greg Gard says he is done for the season. I'm now thinking he's done, period.
Between now and then the Badgers have two tune-ups, a home game against an awful Minnesota team, and a road game at Illinois.Ha, I read this as these being the two tune ups, and my only objection was going to be calling Illinois a tune up. Minnesota is truly horrible
Hunter Dickinson tried to kick a guy in the face last night, he has to be the easiest player to hate in Big Ten historyGiving away Brad Davison’s title so fast, are we?
Is it me or does Illinois have inordinately too much trouble with Mizzou in both basketball and football?Not a banner 24 hours for the Big Ten West
Giving away Brad Davison’s title so fast, are we?Eh, he was a pest. Everyone has a Brad Davison or Foster Loyer laying around
Eh, he was a pest. Everyone has a Brad Davison or Foster Loyer laying aroundFoster Loyer was a pest? Interesting.
Illinois really has to figure some things out. Leadership issues. Possibly chemistry issues. They have shown they can beat just about anyone. They can also lose some real stinkers.It sure is hard to get a read on them right now. In their last five games:
Richard Pitino has New Mexico 12-0117 in schedule rank.
I thought they all went to Bama.Wrong sport
Michigan goes down to CMU#296 in KenPom. Michigan didn't have a good win, but they also didn't have a bad loss. Now they have a horrific one. Probably have to go 13-7 at worst to get in
They could have fired him for cause 10 months ago, without paying him a dime, and didn't. I don't think they are going to pay him to go away now.I *THINK* that ten months ago his coaching deficiencies were less apparent and his recruiting success looked great. Today I would imagine that he has a MUCH shorter leash.
Beilein still lives in Ann Arbor. I think they had an opening to oust Juwan last year, and bring Beilein back for like 2 years, with a coach in waiting/succession plan.
#296 in KenPom. Michigan didn't have a good win, but they also didn't have a bad loss. Now they have a horrific one. Probably have to go 13-7 at worst to get inThat is REALLY bad.
UMD/M is a pick while PSU and tOSU are favored by 2.5 each so basically all three games are toss-ups. I think we'll see a lot of that this season because all games among the twelve teams in the middle are basically toss-ups.Pretty impressed with Ohio State and Michigan yesterday. Both had games that seemed like toss-ups and dominated.
Wisconsin survives an offensive shit show. 63-60 over MinnesotaLol, beating Minnesota at home by only 3, actually dropped Wisconsin 9 spots in KenPom
Lol, beating Minnesota at home by only 3, actually dropped Wisconsin 9 spots in KenPomThat 100 percent checks out.
UW's best player went down injured. KP probably doesn't know about that.I mean, it does know about it. But it is so unquantifiable (and probably doesn’t need to be quantified) that those things don’t really factor in.
At this point I am thoroughly confused.Yeah, not getting any less confused:
I am unilaterally moving up the date to update the tiers to Friday, January 6. Between now and then we have:Updates to the above in bold.
- MSU, RU, and UW have what should be easy home payday games tonight. They all won easily.
- No games on NYE
- Three league games on NYD: UMD@M, IA@PSU, tOSU@NU. Michigan obliterated Maryland, Penn State beat Iowa, Ohio Sate obliterated Northwestern.
- RU@PU amidst the bowls on 1/2. Rutgers waltzed into Mackey and upset #1 Purdue.
- UNL@MSU and MN@UW on Tuesday, 1/3. Both home teams won but Wisconsin struggled a LOT more than they should have with the woeful Gophers.
- PSU@M and IL@NU on Wednesday, 1/4. Both home teams won but Michigan's win was easier than most of us would have expected and Illinois losing to Northwestern was also surprising based on pregame rankings.
- UMD@RU, PU@tOSU, and IU@IA on Thursday, 1/5
Current tiers (needs updated but waiting until next Friday) are:
- PU, IL, IU
- IA, tOSU, RU, UMD, MSU
- UW, M, PSU
- UNL, NU
- BLANK
- MN
Wow, Chris Beard fired. Looks like they didn't buy his fiancees backtracking to save his jobThe Liberty head coach is sweating already
Gus JohnsonHe became a caricature of himself, like Vitale did. It seems hard for big announcing personalities to not do that. Marv Alberts and Don Cherry certainly did. I think Madden did a great job of straddling the line. Bill Raftery probably does it best among present options
terrible
My thoughts on tiers:
I'd like to get some consensus on tiers by around noon tomorrow so that I can update the tiers and post an updated projection tomorrow afternoon.
I'd like to get some consensus on tiers by around noon tomorrow so that I can update the tiers and post an updated projection tomorrow afternoon.
My thoughts on tiers:
Thoughts?Anyone, anyone, Bueller . . . ?
It also seems like home court means lessI've definitely noticed a longterm trend of home court meaning less over time.
I just don't know how doable it is this year.It is definitely extra tricky this year because with the exception of Minnesota being just flat awful, the rest of the league feels pretty bunched up.
My thoughts on tiers:I don't like blank tiers
Tier #5:
- Blank
Thoughts?
I've definitely noticed a longterm trend of home court meaning less over time.I think home crowds are less crazy, but I also think as 3 point shooting has become a bigger part of offenses, the home court reffing edge matters less, because games aren't decided nearly as much by points/calls in the paint.
Since I first got involved our system has been:
- Each team should win all home games except those against teams at least two tiers above them, and
- Each team should lose all road games except those against teams at least two tiers below them.
When I first started managing the projection it seemed like, even with that massive home court advantage built in, a lot of the upsets still involved inferior teams pulling off home upsets over obviously superior opponents (like NU beating IL at home on Wednesday).
The last few years a lot of the upsets are simply the slightly better team winning on the road (like PU beating tOSU in Columbus on Thursday).
I'm curious about the reasons for this trend. Has officiating gotten more even-handed? Are players less responsive to the home (supportive) or road (hostile) crowds?
I don't like blank tiersI understand but Minnesota is just so much worse than the rest of the league that I believe it is justified.
My thoughts on tiers:For the moment, I would drop Iowa down to Tier 4. That win over IU was a bit fluky in that Race T. for IU went down and there was that screwball tech on the IU player throwing the ball to the ref. Even with that, Iowa would still have beat IU if they are tier 4 (IU a tier 3 on the road).
Tier #1:Tier #2:
- 3-1 Purdue: Their loss was at home which is bad but it was a one point loss to a good looking Rutgers team which is good. They also have road wins over tOSU and UNL and a home win over Minnesota. Finally, their OOC was REALLY good which is why they are currently ranked #1 nationally.
- 3-1 Rutgers: If we were ranking based solely on league games, the Scarlet Knights would be ahead of Purdue. Their loss was on the road by a single point on a three-point heave at the buzzer with some controversy thrown in. They have a road win over Purdue and blowout home wins over UMD and IU.
Tier #3:
- 2-1 Ohio State: The Buckeyes are 1-1 against the tier-1 teams with two EXTREMELY close home games. Their other win was a road wipeout of the Wildcats.
- 3-0 Wisconsin: The good is that they are 3-0 and beat Iowa on the road. The bad is that they struggled mightily with woeful Minnesota at home, had a rather unconvincing home win over Maryland, and that the Iowa team that they beat in Iowa City was in the midst of a disastrous stretch in which they lost six of eight including a home loss to Eastern Illinois.
- 2-1 Michigan State: The home loss to Northwestern is . . . not good. OTOH, they won convincingly at PSU and blew out Nebraska at home. Frankly I need a LOT more evidence before I'll believe that a Tom Izzo coached MSU team is anything less than one of the better teams in the league.
Tier #4:
- 3-0 Michigan: Yes, they are 3-0 but the win against Minnesota almost doesn't count and the other two were at home (UMD, PSU). Still, they've honestly looked better than this ranking in league play so far but their OOC was a 6-5 crapshow with zero quality wins, a terrible loss to directional-Michigan, and a few close calls against other bad teams.
- 2-1 Northwestern: The wins were great, one was in East Lansing and the other was a solid, 13 point home win over Illinois. The problem is that the loss was a blowout at home to Ohio State.
- 1-2 Indiana: The good is that both losses were on the road. The bad is that one was to an Iowa team that has looked like hot garbage for a month and the other was a blowout in New Jersey.
- 2-2 Penn State: The wins (@IL by 15, vs IA) look good but the losses (vsMSU by 9, @M by 10) look bad. I'm just basically dropping them here until further information clarifies the picture.
- 1-3 Maryland: They are this high only because their OOC was decent and all three league losses were on the road. The concerns are that the Illinois win looks a LOT less impressive now than it did when Illinois was #16, the Rutgers loss was not particularly competitive, and the Michigan loss was a blowout.
- 0-3 Illinois: Once upon a time the Illini were looking pretty good and nationally ranked. Now, not so much. Two of their three losses were on the road (UMD, NU) but none of the three (PSU) were to teams at the top of the league.
- 1-3 Iowa: Prior to last night I was prepared to give up on the Hawkeyes and drop them down but then they beat a pretty good Indiana team so maybe they are going to be decent back at full strength? I don't know. The losses were not good. They lost at home to UW, in Lincoln and at PSU.
Tier #5:
- 1-3 Nebraska: The win was over Iowa during Iowa's period of collapse. The close loss to Purdue is fine but the other losses were blowouts in Bloomington and East Lansing.
Tier #6:
- Blank
- 0-3 Minnesota: The bright spot of the season so far is a close loss in Madison. That was their most recent game so maybe things are looking up but I doubt it so for now I'm simply treating that as a fluke. Their other two league games were blowouts in West Lafayette and to Michigan and their OOC was . . . not good.
Tier-3, with half the league's teams is undoubtedly WAY too big but I just don't know which teams to move up/down out of it.
Thoughts?
For the moment, I would drop Iowa down to Tier 4. That win over IU was a bit fluky in that Race T. for IU went down and there was that screwball tech on the IU player throwing the ball to the ref. Even with that, Iowa would still have beat IU if they are tier 4 (IU a tier 3 on the road).Sorry, did the update before I saw this. I'll consider it for the next update depending on how Iowa looks between now and then.
I think home crowds are less crazy, but I also think as 3 point shooting has become a bigger part of offenses, the home court reffing edge matters less, because games aren't decided nearly as much by points/calls in the paint.Interesting thoughts, you are probably right about 3 point shooting. Officiating is less of an issue there.
I would sign up for this in a heartbeat. ESPN BPI projects MSU to go 8-12
- 11-9/19-12 Michigan State, wins tie with tOSU based on record against RU/PU
Some smoke that Skyy Clark, Illinois Freshman PG, will be transferring this month. Not a good look for either side. He has started almost every game. His freshman counterpart Epps has looked better though.
Illinois basketball a bit of a mess right now.
Anyone, anyone, Bueller . . . ?Greetings from Cabo!!
I kind of enjoy managing this, but I don't want it to be "Medinabuckeye1's projection", I've always seen it as a group project by the posters here generally.
@ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55)
Bwar?
Grillrat?
Jhet?
847?
Wisconsin down its best player today. Looks like Illinois down a few players. Thought UW was a bit of a longshot, and now it really is.I don't think they can win down there.
Fox now uses Roundball Rock (the NBA on NBC) on their broadcast.They have been since 2018
Oddly home teams were 1-3 today:Wasn't this one neutral?
- Penn State lost to Purdue.
Wasn't this one neutral?Technically I guess but Philly seems to favor Penn State.
Technically I guess but Philly seems to favor Penn State.Does it? Happy Valley barely favors Penn State when it comes to basketball
Does it? Happy Valley barely favors Penn State when it comes to basketballI didn't watch so I really don't know but I would think that Philly might actually be pretty favorable because it is a once-a-year chance for Philly-area PSU alums to see their school locally.
Would Rutgers not fall to Tier 2 after losing at home to Iowa ... I can't figure them out.Road win over Purdue, home loss to Iowa, good luck figuring that out.
Not sure if it was MSU offense or UW defense, but MSU's offense was extremely efficient down the stretchI think it was about 50-50. The Badgers had a couple of monumental breakdowns, but there were 3 to 4 enormous makes in that stretch.
https://twitter.com/McMathketball/status/1612995828808916993?s=20&t=Oi8je-wZaSvF7EbUjtbv9g
I think it was about 50-50. The Badgers had a couple of monumental breakdowns, but there were 3 to 4 enormous makes in that stretch.Yeah, I agree. And that's where I love Robbie Hummel. MSU got a "stop" in a defensive slug fest, and Hummel pointed out that while Wisconsin made a bunch of contested shots, MSU was getting lost on the perimeter a bunch in ball screens. They just got lucky there that a shooter missed a shot. The part of MSU I feel best about is their perimeter defense. They completely shut down Michigan on Saturday. They had no good looks, and the score reflected it. They didn't guard well tonight, but Wisconsin missed quite a few good looks in the second half.
The turning point was when the Spartans blew a defensive rotation and left Wisconsin‘s best shooter wide ass open. He missed and the Badgers lost Hauser as a trailer. He connected from three, and that swing more than changed the complexion of the game.
It appears home court is starting to matter again. Michigan State grinds out over Michigan at home, Wisconsin loses to a struggling Illinois team on the road, Wisconsin comes back and beats Michigan State at homeLooks like you spoke too soon.
My first resume only Bracket of the year (2/3 SOR, 1/3 KenPom), for now using SOR to determine regular season champ, and KenPom for tourney champ1/11 Update
PG Niccolo Moretti commits to Illinois. Apparently will be able to join the team soon and provide some depth at the position. Pretty much confirms what was assumed that Skyy Clark will not be coming back. Illinois has looked better since Clark has left. Addition by subtraction? We will see.This is probably the spot to get right. Illinois gets 4 of 6 at home, with the 2 road games coming against the two worst teams, Nebraska and Minnesota.
Big game for the Hoosiers getting underway. They were preseason favorites and if they don't win tonight they'll be almost hopelessly far behind.I would like them to win so they are less desperate come Saturday.
I would like them to win so they are less desperate come Saturday.This is a disastrous start for a preseason favorite. They are five games in (one quarter of the season) and three games down on the leaders and in 13th place.
/checks score
Ahhh horse feathers
This is a disastrous start for a preseason favorite. They are five games in (one quarter of the season) and three games down on the leaders and in 13th place.the 1 and 2 picks for most everyone for sec (uk and arky) are a combine 2-6 in sec play (1-3 each).
the 1 and 2 picks for most everyone for sec (uk and arky) are a combine 2-6 in sec play (1-3 each).I was only vaguely aware of some of these.
unc is currently 3-3 in acc.
creighton and nova (1-2 for be) are 3-3 and 2-4.
baylor is 1-3 in bigxii.
ucla is the only preseason major conf favorite to actually be in good shape right now.
Holtmann January?
The Buckeyes are favored by 14.5 and honestly that seems low to me. I'll be concerned if the Buckeyes don't cover.
This is pathetic even if tOSU pulls it out.Nevermind.
Holtmann January?He should be fired tonight.
He should be fired tonight.They looked completely lost on both ends of the floor.
I was only vaguely aware of some of these.this isn't all that different from the way i follow cbb. bama just happened to play certain teams where i learned some of this through happenstance.
The way I follow CBB is vastly different from the way I follow CFB.
The result of all of this, at least for me, is that I really don't care about CBB nationally until the Tournament. I know there will be some SEC teams in the tournament but I could care less if Arkansas and Kentucky get in while Bama and Tennessee host NIT games or vice-versa so I don't care who wins the AR/TN and Bama/Kentucky games.
They looked completely lost on both ends of the floor.I didn't watch but I was keeping an eye on the score and knew this anyway because you can't lose to a team as terrible as Minnesota without a pathetic performance.
Holtmann January?
The 2 freshmen struggled and it was Key's first game back from injury. I'll overreact in March, but these things happen in the middle of the year sometimes.If it was a reaction to one game it would be an overreaction. It isn't, it is a response to five complete seasons with no notable accomplishments and the fact that when @Brutus Buckeye (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=31) posted "Holtmann January" no explanation was needed because we all knew what he was referring to.
The Buckeyes might be undefeated in conference if Purdue hadn't injured Zed Key. They might've made the Elite 8 a few years ago if Purdue hadn't injured Kyle Young. Just the way things go sometimes.
Apparently others notice this too.The brand is very strong.
I think every Big Ten team except Purdue is going to go through a couple week stretch where they just look bad. MSU, Iowa, Illinois all had it. Indiana did, maybe they are coming out of it now. Wisconsin and OSU are in it.Really, only a week?
Holtmann January?
I'd take a week or even two with no hesitation.
- 18/19: Ohio State was 12-1 and #14 at the beginning of January then went 1-6 in January with the only win coming against a terrible Nebraska team. They had a secondary collapse down the stretch, losing four of their last five games.
- 19/20: The Buckeyes beat Kentucky in a top-6 game in Las Vegas just before Christmas to move to 11-1 and #2 in the poll. They then lost to WVU in Cleveland just before New Years and proceeded to lose six out of seven with the lone win coming, once again, against Nebraska.
- 20/21: Just before Christmas the Buckeyes knocked off #11 Rutgers at home to move to 7-1. Then they lost two out of three (if you guessed Nebraska as the exception pick a prize). They actually had a solid January for once but then imploded in late February to drop from 18-4, #4 nationally, and in the league race to 18-8 and, as always, nowhere close to the league title. Nonetheless the had a solid run to the title game in Indianapolis which got the a #2 seed in the big dance but they crapped the bed with an embarrassing loss to a #15 seed.
- 21/22: Ohio State was 8-2 heading into January. They were ranked #13 in part because both losses were close and to quality opponents. They went 5-3 in January which looks decent so long as you don't look closely enough to notice that the wins came against IUPUI, Nebraska, Northwestern, Penn State (barely and at home), and Minnesota. Most of February was pretty good but then they suffered yet another season-ending collapse. They lost three of their last four including at home to Nebraska before being sent home from the B1G Tournament after just one game by #11 seed Penn State.
- 22/23: On NYD the Buckeyes moved to 10-3 and #24 in the poll by beating Northwestern. Since then they've lost three straight and while the close loss to #1 is nothing to be too ashamed of they were not very competitive in College Park Maryland and I think that even Holtmann's most steadfast apologists will have to admit that the home loss to Minnesota was outright pathetic. Also, the Purdue game loss was avoidable. It isn't like they won because Edey simply overpowered a defender or they hit a tough shot. Nope, Purdue won because Ohio State committed a turnover when that was the one thing they HAD to avoid. Four of their five remaining January games are on the road and they open February by hosting Wisconsin then traveling to Ann Arbor. They may well leave Ann Arbor as a sub .500 team.
Imagine if the away team have been given that ball that clearly went off them in Mackey? They would have to cancel classes tomorrow because the students would still be booing. Granted, that would have actually been a reasonable boo. That's not their styleI think I watched the same game as you, on the replay I never saw a look that definitively showed who the ball went off, camera angles were not right to see it clearly. To overturn is has to be clear or maybe I need my eyes checked. And the March choke comment is uncalled for, you are better than that.
Oh well, another regular season title and March choke is a Purdue tradition going back a century.
MSU continues to be a very different team when Malik Hall is injured, this was actually their best game without him
(https://i.imgflip.com/4204i2.jpg)
Oh well, another regular season title and March choke is a Purdue tradition going back a century.
(https://i.imgflip.com/4204i2.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/l1xfnky.jpg)
Boilerbanger took the high road, so I'll take the low one. ;)
(https://i.imgur.com/l1xfnky.jpg)
| 2023-01-16 (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/2023-01-16-14-michigan-state.html) | Purdue (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/purdue) | @ | Michigan State (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/michigan-state) | W | 64 | 63 | 1 | ||||||
| 2022-03-12 (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/2022-03-12-15-purdue.html) | Purdue (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/purdue) | Michigan State (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/michigan-state) | W | 75 | 70 | 5 | |||||||
| 2022-02-26 (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/2022-02-26-12-michigan-state.html) | Purdue (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/purdue) | @ | Michigan State (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/michigan-state) | L | 65 | 68 | -3 | ||||||
| 2021-02-16 (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/2021-02-16-19-purdue.html) | Purdue (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/purdue) | Michigan State (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/michigan-state) | W | 75 | 65 | 10 | |||||||
| 2021-01-08 (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/2021-01-08-19-michigan-state.html) | Purdue (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/purdue) | @ | Michigan State (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/michigan-state) | W | 55 | 54 | 1 | ||||||
| 2020-01-12 (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/2020-01-12-12-purdue.html) | Purdue (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/purdue) | Michigan State (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/michigan-state) | W | 71 | 42 | 29 | |||||||
| 2019-01-27 (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/2019-01-27-13-purdue.html) | Purdue (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/purdue) | Michigan State (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/michigan-state) | W | 73 | 63 | 10 |
This is still a thing??? WTF?!?I think you need 7 healthy players
(https://i.imgur.com/kL3lbun.png)
I think you need 7 healthy playersHaving Covid and being healthy are two different things.
Having Covid and being healthy are two different things.Not necessarily. I think UConn women just had to postpone a game due to a flu outbreak. I don't think they are ducking anyone. It sounds like in this situation Northwestern simply doesn't have enough healthy players
Granted it's also annoying that he did the thing that they created a rule for, to protect a Purdue player, but when a Purdue player does it, the refs look the other way. Cue Purdue fans booing randomlyInteresting breakdown of the call you reference.
Not necessarily. I think UConn women just had to postpone a game due to a flu outbreak. I don't think they are ducking anyone. It sounds like in this situation Northwestern simply doesn't have enough healthy playersThe NCAA is not requiring testing. I don't trust anyone. What's to stop a dick like Juwan Howard from playing a game if HD goes down and he knows he can't win? Tests everyone around the program, find a case, and declare that his team can't play.
For now the tiers are:Over the weekend and Monday there was only one "upset", Purdue's win in East Lansing:At least for now the method is that each team wins all home games except those against teams two or more tiers ahead of them and loses all road games except those against teams two or more tiers behind them.
- Purdue, Rutgers
- Wisconsin, Michigan State, Ohio State
- Michigan, Iowa, Illinois, Maryland, Penn State, Northwestern, Indiana
- Nebraska
- Blank
- Minnesota
The upsets so far have been:
(https://i.imgur.com/Fa0sc0j.png)
The updated projected final standings/BTT seeds are:Tiebreakers:
- 17-3/28-3 Purdue
- 16-4/24-7 Rutgers
- 12-8/20-11 Michigan State
- 12-8/20-10 Wisconsin
- 10-10/18-13 Iowa
- 10-10/19-12 Maryland
- 10-10/18-13 Ohio State
- 10-10/19-12 Illinois
- 10-10/16-15 Michigan
- 9-11/18-13 Northwestern
- 9-11/18-13 Penn State
- 8-12/17-14 Indiana
- 6-14/13-18 Nebraska
- 1-19/7-23 Minnesota
Michigan State wins the 12-8 tiebreaker because they won in Madison and do not host the Badgers.
10-10:
We start with H2H2H2H. If we played a double-round-robin all five teams would be projected to go 4-4 against each other so I start there then adjust for upsets. None of these teams have been involved in upsets of each other. Then I back out games not played. That gets us to a projection of:
- 4-1 Iowa: Does not visit IL, UMD, or M
- 3-3 Maryland: Does not visit IL nor host IA
- 3-4 Ohio State: Does not host M
- 2-3 Illinois: Does not host IA nor UMD, does not visit M. Wins tiebreaker over M due to record against UW and MSU
- 2-3 Michigan: Does not host IL nor IA, does not visit tOSU
9-11:
Northwestern wins because they do not visit PSU.
Thus, the match-ups in the BTT at the United Center in Chicago, Illinois would be:
Wednesday, March 8:Thursday, March 9:
- #11 Penn State vs #14 Minnesota, 830 BTN
- #12 Indiana vs #13 Nebraska, 6 BTN
Friday, March 10:
- #5 Iowa vs IU/UNL, 230 BTN
- #6 Maryland vs PSU/MN, 9 BTN
- #7 Ohio State vs #10 Northwestern, 630 BTN
- #8 Illinois vs #9 Michigan, noon BTN
Saturday, March 11:
- #1 Purdue vs IL/M, noon BTN
- #2 Rutgers vs tOSU/NU, 630 BTN
- #3 Michigan State vs UMD/PSU/MN, 9 BTN
- #4 Wisconsin vs IA/IU/UNL, 230 BTN
Sunday, March 12:
- PU/IL/M vs UW/IA/IU/UNL, 1 CBS
- RU/tOSU/NU vs MSU/UMD/PSU/MN, 330 CBS
- PU/IL/M/UW/IA/IU/UNL vs RU/tOSU/NU/MSU/UMD/PSU/MN, 330 CBS
but for basketball, we have our first game after the incident tonight at vandy. will be interesting to see the team attitude. can't image they're in a good place right now. can see this going 1 of 2 ways. either the team gels, shuts themselves off from outside, and finish strong. or they fall apart under the circumstances. honestly wouldn't blame them. cannot imagine a teammate and likely good friend being arrested for murder. guess we'll get our first glimpse tonight.
Strictly on the bball front, not to worry....pretty sure the beatdown they gave us the other day counts for several Ws.this first game went about as good as can be expected, i guess. got a solid road win, but had struggles. vandy is a tough place for bama under normal circumstances, just one of those places that seems cursed for us. so hard to tell if struggles were normal, or because the players were still working through the mess. post game interview, you could tell it was working on the coaches and players.
We are so terrible I have no choice but to close my eyes and wait for beisbol season.
Our wimminz basketball team is kicking butt and taking names, tho.
My first resume only Bracket of the year (2/3 SOR, 1/3 KenPom), for now using SOR to determine regular season champ, and KenPom for tourney champ1/18 Update
1/18 UpdateYay!
NIT
COLUMBUS
- #1 OHIO STATE vs. #8 American
Yay!I know you are really sour. What coach out there would you like to see in Columbus?
I think UW ends up at about a 7 or 8 this year. The ceiling is lower than normal with this team.I didn't get this up quite in time yesterday, so I waited a day, and things moved a bit. But when I had it set through the Monday night games, the Big Ten had 8 of the last 9 teams in, and OSU was the #2 team out.
MSU was projected into the NIT on here 2 weeks ago, and not as a 1 seed. Even still, MSU is a 9 seed, so these things are very fluid. UM is an NIT 4 seed. Wisconsin has gone from a 4 seed to a 10 seed in a couple weeks. OSU is a couple wins away from being solidly back in. And while you say that's not likely, that also looked to be the case with MSU and Wisconsin recently. And hell, if MSU can't beat Rutgers (the 2nd best team in the Big Ten) tomorrow night, they need to win in Bloomington to avoid a 4 game losing streak of their own...coming off a win in Madison. Lots of ebb and flowI understand all of that. Ohio State is at Nebraska tonight and hosts Iowa this weekend. Two wins and the projection will have them easily in. Things are fluid this early.
I know you are really sour. What coach out there would you like to see in Columbus?I don't have an answer for three reasons:
I think you can very much look at Izzo's coaching "tree" and say I want nothing to do with that. It's increasingly obvious he has won in spite of his assistant choices, not because of them. Which is why I'm very scared that he has (rightfully) earned the right to name his successor.
I think it is harder to look at say Izzo's staff and, as an outsider, identify the stronger and weaker links.
But OSU wouldn't be interested in the best coach in Youngstown State history.I can't remember which sport, but I vaguely recollect that hiring "the best coach in YSU history" worked out pretty well for the Buckeyes. LoL
I can't remember which sport, but I vaguely recollect that hiring "the best coach in YSU history" worked out pretty well for the Buckeyes. LoLAnd yet they passed on Bo Pelini
Holtman's adversion to winning in January has reared it's ugly head again with OSU's 5th straight loss. Even the last two years when he made it through January he still had a month that just looked bad.It should be noted that January of 2022 wasn't nearly as good as that 5-2 looks. The five wins were:
'23: 1-5
'22: 5-2 (but he was saving his epic failure month for March (2-5)
'21: 6-2 (went into the Big Ten Tourney on a 4 game losing streak.)
'20: 2-5
'19: 1-6
Elite programs/coaches don't take entire months off.
It should be noted that January of 2022 wasn't nearly as good as that 5-2 looks. The five wins were:Also, they weren't 5-2 last January, they were 5-3 but the third loss was actually a "good" loss so it was on the upswing. On Sunday, January 30 they lost by three on the road to #6 Purdue.Meanwhile the two losses were non-competitive games against tournament teams so 0-2 against competent opposition.
- In OT over a terrible Nebraska team.
- Over a bad Northwestern team.
- Over a bad Penn State team.
- Over a ridiculously pathetic IUPUI team (several Ohio High Schools would have been more challenging).
- Over a terrible Minnesota team.
I thought I posted earlier that Medina is going to get his wish. This solved itself in what amounts to the most natural way.It is certainly looking that way. The losses to Minnesota and Nebraska are BAD and will be difficult to overcome. I honestly can't imagine Gene Smith not making a change if we miss the Tournament but you never know. Plus, the Ohio State Athletic Department may be in transition in the not altogether unlikely event that the league picks Smith.
The Northwestern / Iowa game has been rescheduled for January 31st.Thanks! So, as mentioned above:
NOTE:Thus we now have a projected four-way tie at 10-10 and a projected three-way tie at 9-11.
If the IA/NU game is rescheduled it would be a projected Iowa win / Northwestern loss which would move Iowa into the 10-10 tie and Northwestern into the 9-11 tie.
Wisconsin will not play Northwestern this weekend (247sports.com) (https://247sports.com/college/wisconsin/Article/Wisconsin-Badgers-basketball-will-not-play-Northwestern-Basketball-due-to-COVID-19-outbreak-this-weekend-Greg-Gard-Tyler-Wahl-Max-Klesmit--203284614/)More of those nerds should’ve taken their vitamins
Wisconsin will not play Northwestern this weekend (247sports.com) (https://247sports.com/college/wisconsin/Article/Wisconsin-Badgers-basketball-will-not-play-Northwestern-Basketball-due-to-COVID-19-outbreak-this-weekend-Greg-Gard-Tyler-Wahl-Max-Klesmit--203284614/)Got it, thanks.
Got it, thanks.I don't see a spot where you could just stick the game in.
Just like I did with IA/NU, I'm going to assume, for now, that the game will NOT be played until it is rescheduled so if/when it does get rescheduled please let me know and I'll update the projections accordingly.
I don't see a spot where you could just stick the game in.I don't know if this will copy/paste well but it gets even worse when you include Northwestern's schedule. They'll probably have to rearrange a midweek such that both UW and NU play their other opponent that week on either Tuesday or Thursday and they play each other the other day:
(https://i.imgur.com/MBRYlQa.png)
Medina,That win in Champaign was impressive as was their blowout of Wisconsin but I think it is a little early to move them up yet. I don't think we have enough to know if this is a trend or a blip.
IU might be worthy of moving to Tier 2, I think if they beat Mich St this weekend we should move them, if not they stay where they are. Something has changed with them.
I don't see a spot where you could just stick the game in.MSU had to play 6 games in 16 days (5 on the road) last year because Slappy didn't want to have to play us without Dickinson when it was scheduled. So, they'll figure it out
(https://i.imgur.com/MBRYlQa.png)
I don't see a spot where you could just stick the game in.Rumblings UW-NU on Monday. I assume that bumps back NW-Neb. a day.
(https://i.imgur.com/MBRYlQa.png)
I guess the Covid went away in two days. Nerds...On the one hand, I'm interested in seeing who actually will play for NW. There ware rumors it was a COVID/Injury combo.
(https://i.imgur.com/kZePDlo.png)
I have this feeling that the Badgers are gonna lay an egg today. No idea why. Just a feeling.I mean, they are an underdog. So in this case, an egg with me and getting blown out.
After MSU lost, I turned it to Maryland-Purdue, and my 9 year old said "can you put on another game, Purdue fans just booth refs the whole game. It's annoying"It was Courtney Greene on the floor. The fans have a particular dislike for him.
My first resume only Bracket of the year (2/3 SOR, 1/3 KenPom), for now using SOR to determine regular season champ, and KenPom for tourney champ1/24 Update
Takeaways:
BIG TEN TEAMS
- #1 Purdue
- #7 Indiana - moved up from Play-In Game
- #7 Michigan State - moved up from #9
- #8 Rutgers - dropped from #6
- #10 Illinois - dropped from #8
- #10 Maryland - moved up from #11
- #11 Northwestern - moved up from Play-In Game
- #11 Iowa - dropped from #10
- P-I Penn State - moved up from NIT
- P-I Wisconsin - dropped from #10
- NIT #2 Ohio State - dropped from NIT #1
- NIT #6 Michigan - dropped from NIT #4
- Nebraska - moved up from #4 team out of NIT to #3 team out
- Minnesota - n/a
The Badgers (12-6, 4-4 Big Ten), who have a thin margin for error on their best nights, were that team. They finished 9 of 16 from the line and committed too many self-inflicted errors elsewhere in a disappointing 66-63 loss that began a stretch of three games in six days.This team irks me.
Is Holtman worse than Jim O'Brien? He obviously recruits a lot better, but Obie had the Final Four run, two Big Ten Titles, and a few other seasons where he fell just short of a Big Ten Title. Even in his bad years, he'd muster a monster upset of MSU, or some such.It isn't even close but it is looking more and more like this season will force the AD's hand. At this point our team is tied for 12th/13th, 0-3 against the other bottom-4 teams, and sliding progressively further off the bubble.
I have this funny feeling that this may just be it for Coach Gard.Speaking of Nate Oats, he's from Wisconsin and got his masters from there. So...
The AD showed he's not playing around when he whacked a supposedly untouchable* Paul Chryst.
I wonder who might be on his short list of hoops coaches? If he can get the home run, I think he'll do it.
* 2022 College Football Hot Seat Rankings: Evaluating the job security of all 131 FBS coaches - CBSSports.com (https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/2022-college-football-hot-seat-rankings-evaluating-the-job-security-of-all-131-fbs-coaches/)
Speaking of Nate Oats, he's from Wisconsin and got his masters from there. So...If he wants to take some fruit from the Cincinnati tree again...
Speaking of Nate Oats, he's from Wisconsin and got his masters from there. So...That's who immediately comes to mind. That's a home run.
You're lucky Mac didn't offer Saban the football job.we all make mistakes.
pretty sure i read somewhere he grew up an msu fan. and that's who most bama 'in the know' peoples are worried about.I don't think he grew up an MSU fan, I think he was more of an Izzo fan as a coach, and when the Bama AD reached out to Izzo, he recommend Oats
That's a hard-working man right there.yep. and he's busy. come back in about 25 years, you can talk to him then.
Jim O'Brien had two losing seasons, so and Holtmann is flirting with having his first one, so probably not much comparison there. I dunno, the way things are now I feel like moving on from Holtmann will send us straight into Minnesota/Nebraska levels of competence. If there was a clear guy out there it would be one thing. If you knew Nate Oats would leave Alabama for OSU you could pull the trigger. But if you are looking at the usual cast of randos then...So first, if I were just being a random, anonymous internet a-hole I'd say this was a loser mentality, call you a loser, and move on. I'm not because:
So first, if I were just being a random, anonymous internet a-hole I'd say this was a loser mentality, call you a loser, and move on. I'm not because:I understand all of that. It is the exact arguments Nebraska used to shoot Frank Solich into the sun and consign their football program to two decades of mediocrity. Holtmann has been consistently good and never great and that is where we are. I agree, I want better than what we've gotten, but I also have criteria.I hope we are on the same page. My point, in general, is that I'm not simply being argumentative, I disagree and I'm genuinely curious as to the basis for your opinion.
- I think this place is generally better than that, and
- I respect you as a poster enough to not think that.
I'll give you the basis for mine:
First is the way I would view this decision if I were an AD:
This would apply anywhere. I would use the same method if I were AD at tOSU, UNC, or Kent State. I would formulate a baseline which, to me, is "historical program performance". Historical, in this context doesn't really include anything that happened on B&W TV's but it also doesn't just mean the 10-15 years before the current coach. I want my historical period to be:For BB the expansion of the Tournament to 64 teams in 1985 works as a good starting point, IMHO. That is about 40 years (38 to be exact) and 37 tournaments due to scrapping the 2020 Tournament for COVID reasons.
- Recent enough to be plausibly relevant
- Long enough such that I'm not comparing to a historically anomalous high or low.
In the 38 seasons from 1985-2022 the Buckeyes won 7 regular season league titles. That works out to one every 5.42 years.
In the 37 NCAA Tournaments from 1985-2022 the Buckeyes had:Holtman is in year six. The Buckeyes CLEARLY are not going to win the league title this year so looking at all of the above:
- 22 appearances, one every 1.68 years.
- 8 S16's, one every 4.63 years.
- 5 E8's, one every 7.40 years.
- 3 F4's, one every 12.33 years.
- He is behind in league titles.
- He is ahead in appearances.
- He is behind in S16's.
- He hasn't been to an E8's although he has another couple years before he gets below the average.
- He hasn't been to a F4 although he has another seven years before he gets below the average.
Literally the ONLY thing Holtman is ahead of tOSU's long-term average in is NCAA Appearances. He has made it every year which is better than tOSU's average. However, IMHO, that is simply too low of a bar. In our league it is typical for .500 teams to make the tournament and not unusual for sub .500 teams to sneak in. That wouldn't be good enough for me if I were AD both because the other metrics are more important and, more importantly to the AD, because being a .500 team isn't enough to generate excitement and sell tickets/merchandise.
Ultimately, for the AD, money is the deciding factor and attendance is a good proxy for money because attendees pay to attend and because excitement generates attendees and also induces people to buy merchandise and make contributions. Ohio State plays in one of the larger arenas in College Basketball but they *SHOULD* be able to fill it because unlike a LOT of schools they are IN a major urban area and they also have a humongous student body on campus. Attendance for league games this year:That is, quite simply, not getting it done. The only game over 75% capacity was when we hosted #1 Purdue. Fans aren't excited because Holtmann has given them nothing to be excited about. Our team hasn't won a league title since 2012 and hasn't been close since Holtmann's first year (with Matta's guys).
- 12/8 Rutgers: 14k, 74%
- 1/5 Purdue: 17k, 90%
- 1/12 Minnesota: 11k, 59%
- 1/21 Iowa: 14k, 72%
Second is a more personal view of "MY" program at MY Alma Mater:
You seem to be concerned that things will get worse if we move on and I simply don't share that concern at all. I do understand where you are coming from. Minnesota and Nebraska ARE worse than Ohio State but, two things:
First, Minnesota's and Nebraska's long-term historical success is VASTLY below Ohio State's.
Comparison of MN/UNL/tOSU (1985-2022):This is simply not an apples-to-apples comparison. Minnesota and Nebraska suck but they've pretty much always sucked. Ohio State hasn't.
- League Titles: 7 tOSU, 1 MN, ? UNL (Didn't look up their B12/B8 history but none here and I would guess none there)
- NCAA Appearances: 22 tOSU, 12 MN, 7 UNL
- S16's: 8 tOSU, 3 MN, 0 UNL
- E8's: 5 tOSU, 2 MN, 0 UNL
- F4's: 3 tOSU, 1 MN, 0 UNL
Second, I simply don't care.
Making the tournament doesn't move the needle for me. I measure success on two yardsticks:Since Holtmann has achieved literally nothing on those two yardsticks, my view is that Ohio State has literally nothing to lose by moving on. If you aren't doing the two above things then you aren't relevant. We aren't winning or even seriously competing for league titles and we aren't getting beyond the first weekend of the NCAA Tournament so our program is irrelevant. It is time to move on.
- Winning (or at least being seriously competitive for) League Titles, and
- Trips beyond the first weekend of the NCAA Tournament.
Is Holtman worse than Jim O'Brien? He obviously recruits a lot better, but Obie had the Final Four run, two Big Ten Titles, and a few other seasons where he fell just short of a Big Ten Title. Even in his bad years, he'd muster a monster upset of MSU, or some such.In some ways yes, others no.
I have this funny feeling that this may just be it for Coach Gard.Speculation aside, this would be … odd.
The AD showed he's not playing around when he whacked a supposedly untouchable* Paul Chryst.
I wonder who might be on his short list of hoops coaches? If he can get the home run, I think he'll do it.
* 2022 College Football Hot Seat Rankings: Evaluating the job security of all 131 FBS coaches - CBSSports.com (https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/2022-college-football-hot-seat-rankings-evaluating-the-job-security-of-all-131-fbs-coaches/)
I know you are really sour. What coach out there would you like to see in Columbus?I've got it and this is GENIUS!
In some ways yes, others no.I dunno that the mood is really that bad. If OSU had any expectations this year it might be different. I suppose it depends on how things end up - pop a few wins in a row and everyone is hunky dory again.
JOB had better highs, worse lows, plus the cheating and such. I think it’s an interesting comp, but I think the mood around OSU seems bad enough, this might be it.
I've got it and this is GENIUS!Michigan should have taken their out last year, fired Howard for cause, and brought back Beilein with a succession plan.
The Ohio State Buckeyes should hire, as their next Basketball Coach . . .
Ready?
John Beilein!
Advantages:Beilein's major college coaching record:
- Deprive Michigan of their existing "safety valve" for when Howard inevitably does something stupid enough to get himself canned.
- Very good career record, see below.
Five years at WVU:12 years at Michigan:
- 2 NCAA Appearances (I know @MaximumSam (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1572) will not like that)
- 2 S16's
- 1 E8
- 9 NCAA Appearances
- 2 league titles
- 5 S16's
- 3 E8's
- 2 F4's
Michigan should have taken their out last year, fired Howard for cause, and brought back Beilein with a succession plan.He also turns 70 next month. Which means its time for him to run for president.
He still lives in Ann Arbor.
Which also means I doubt he's going to Columbus
I dunno that the mood is really that bad. If OSU had any expectations this year it might be different. I suppose it depends on how things end up - pop a few wins in a row and everyone is hunky dory again.Mark Titus went on a pretty solid rant about how the most annoying part about OSU basketball is all of the fans who tune in for the first time after football is done, check out the record, and then yell loudly, either pro or con. And those folks have too loud of a voice.
He also turns 70 next month. Which means its time for him to run for president.Yeah, that's why I said the move was for Michigan to bring him back last year. Bring in a defensive minded coach as his #2, with a 3 year succession plan
Buckeye fans were mad at Gene Smith last time around because he took too long and "missed" on Archie MillerHave to set your aim lower than 5'8" if you want Archie
He also turns 70 next month. Which means its time for him to run for president.:clap:
I dunno that the mood is really that bad. If OSU had any expectations this year it might be different. I suppose it depends on how things end up - pop a few wins in a row and everyone is hunky dory again.Obviously not for me and probably not exactly "hunky dory" for the majority. Our program is currently five games out of first in the league and effectively eliminated from the league title race IN JANUARY. Barring a miraculous finish, a stupendous collapse by Purdue, and nobody else stepping up, Ohio State will not be a contender for the league title this year, Holtmann's SIXTH. The last five:
Yeah, that's why I said the move was for Michigan to bring him back last year. Bring in a defensive minded coach as his #2, with a 3 year succession planIf I were AD this is what I'd be looking at. Something like a three year contract with a "no going to Michigan" clause disguised as a prohibition on coaching any college in Ohio or an adjacent state for the duration of the contract. Then I'd further elevate Jake Diebler from Associate head Coach to Head Coach in Waiting and give him a contract that keeps him as an assistant for three years then makes him HC.
Mark Titus went on a pretty solid rant about how the most annoying part about OSU basketball is all of the fans who tune in for the first time after football is done, check out the record, and then yell loudly, either pro or con. And those folks have too loud of a voice.I'd like to read this but my Google-fu is failing me today so if you could provide a link that would be great. FWIW, I think everyone here knows that I'm not THAT guy. I follow tOSU BB from the beginning and didn't only check out their record after Ruggles' kick went wide as the ball was dropping in Times Square.
He said he's not saying Holtzman should stay, but that the narrative is wrong.
That said, apparently he's high on Notre Dame's wish list. CBS named him their #1 target. That might be a good amicable split. But yeah, it's not simple. Texas has had back to back "slam dunk" hires, that failed for different reasons. North Carolina whiffed on back to back hires, before getting Roy Williams. Anyone remember when Kentucky fired Tubby Smith for Billy Gillespie? Duke is off to their worst non-COVD year start since 1996 in their first year without K. Hell, three of the best coaches in recent Big Ten history (Izzo, Painter, Beilein) delivered the season they needed to (Izzo in 1998, Painter in 2015, Beilein in 2011) when their seats were incredibly hot. That's all forgotten now. The rosters in basketball aren't as deep. The coach is WAY more important than in football. You get it wrong, things go south quickly. And the line between hot seat and elite can be one year of the right roster combination. Holtzman a little got screwed by how Malakhi Branham was mediocre for half a season, then so great for the other half that he leftI explained upthread that my opinion is that HC hiring is more crapshoot than science. I'm well aware that "slam dunks" can fail as at Texas. That is why I am of the opinion that when a change needs to be made, the sooner the better. The hire might be a disaster but we will not know until we try and if it is a disaster we'll fire that guy and try again until we get it right.
Finally:In other words:
- Izzo was in his third season in 1998, won the league, and went to the S16. If Holtmann had done that in any of his first six I'd be happy. He hasn't, I'm not.
- Painter won league titles in his 5th, 12th, and 14th seasons at Purdue and is poised to win another in his 18th. He went to the S16 in his 4th, 5th, 12th, 13th, 14th, and 17th seasons at Purdue.
- Beilein won league titles in his 5th and 7th seasons at Michigan and went to the S16 in his 6th, 7th, 10th, 11th, and 12th.
The hire might be a disaster but we will not know until we try and if it is a disaster we'll fire that guy and try again until we get it right.(https://i.imgur.com/kObDS0Z.jpg)
If he wants to take some fruit from the Cincinnati tree again...(https://www.pilotonline.com/resizer/_W1E5VzV1nTy4Tvckm8mZORIvPc=/1200x0/filters:format(jpg):quality(70)/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-tronc.s3.amazonaws.com/public/G2QR7XWWJJHOVGZPIZH7TU7DXA.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ctWNF8i.jpg)
Speculation aside, this would be … odd.The train is off the rails.
See how the season wraps, I suppose. I feel like Oats had a sketchy rep, but I’m not totally sure what that means anymore.
Worse? How can it get any worse? The Badgers are at the threshold of hell!Have you met Minnesota?
Worse? How can it get any worse? The Badgers are at the threshold of hell!hah, have you watched the "other" big red
The train is off the rails.Relax, my guy.
Have you met Minnesota?The Badgers would lose to them if they played today.
Relax, my guy.They just got blown out by a mediocre team. Lost 5 of 6. This is a team that was once projected as a 3 seed. They are not the same and something is very wrong.
They just got blown out by a mediocre team. Lost 5 of 6. This is a team that was once projected as a 3 seed. They are not the same and something is very wrong.I realize that this may seem hypocritical since I am the chief advocate for ending the Holtmann era at Ohio State but I think that you are overreacting here. There are some significant differences:
Lost 5 of 6.Honestly, reactions like this are why we do the tiers, or at least they are why I got involved in it.
I fully understand the tiers. I also fully understand that there is something seriously wrong in the program right now.UWGB fired Bo Ryan's kid last night, so he's available
I flat out saw a team QUIT last night.
Gard deserves some time to fix things - he deserves the BOD.
Some thought PC deserved the BOD too - me included.
You don't always get what you deserve, and if the firing of PC is an indicator, well, Gard should be paying attention.
I fully understand the tiers. I also fully understand that there is something seriously wrong in the program right now.Again, I would ignore last night's result.
I flat out saw a team QUIT last night.
I fully understand the tiers. I also fully understand that there is something seriously wrong in the program right now.He’s the coach of a team that’s struggling. I’m pretty sure he’s paying attention.
I flat out saw a team QUIT last night.
Gard deserves some time to fix things - he deserves the BOD.
Some thought PC deserved the BOD too - me included.
You don't always get what you deserve, and if the firing of PC is an indicator, well, Gard should be paying attention.
He’s the coach of a team that’s struggling. I’m pretty sure he’s paying attention.Yes, I'm sure he will address the big picture. Need to look at recruiting too. Nice class coming in, at least on paper.
The rules are mostly the same. The leash isn’t long, but it’s longer than “freak out over a bad season.”
Miss the tournament two years in a row, you’re done. Right now, it’s one bad but often competitive year off two Big Ten titles in three years.
Shoot, an almost millennial is put in charge of the department and suddenly the older fans want to run everything based on vibes. At year’s end, we’ll assess the big picture.
Did he reinjure his foot during the game tonight or just not able to play enough minutes? I saw he was playing in the first half.He's not 100%. It was a surprise he is playing at all, but he can't give full minutes. But they can't afford to be conservative. I say play him as much as he can take, then rest him for the certain loss on Sunday. Then you have 6 days til the next game
Is this bad?yup, it's bad
yup, it's badthis is the hard hitting analysis i came for.
I agree with you Medina, Purdue has been fortunate (not sure the right word) to come out on top of those close games, maybe with that consistency in close games it shows that have some fortitude and don't panic.I do think it is beyond merely "fortunate". You mentioned consistency and I agree. Purdue is consistently coming out on top in these close games because they are the best team in the league but they aren't quite putting teams away like I would expect for the #1 team in the nation.
How much creed do you give that Purdue gets everyone's best shot since they are highly ranked? Fair to say teams elevate their focus and play against them vs some of the other conference opponents?
Sunday they'll get MSU's best shot.Have you seen MSU play in Mackey?
KenPom now projects Rutgers to finish 2nd, at 12-8. Then #3-#12 all between 11-9 and 9-11. One upset could be the difference between playing on Wednesday and getting a double bye
KenPom now projects Rutgers to finish 2nd, at 12-8. Then #3-#12 all between 11-9 and 9-11. One upset could be the difference between playing on Wednesday and getting a double byeI posted almost exactly the same thing in the tier update before I read this.
Going to come down to the last weekend for that double bye it seems like, should be exciting. Be hard to plan for tickets for many teams on what day to go.Exactly.
Ohio State is dead last in the nation, #363. So you could either say things should change. Or medina would say it's coaching in all of these close lossesLoL.
LoL.You wanna be Louisville? Cause this is how we get to be Louisville.
You are right, that is what I would say.
As I've said to @MaximumSam (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1572) within this thread in relation to other explanations/justifications/excuses I'd be more open to that if this were year three or four. It isn't, this is year six with zero B1G titles and zero trips beyond the first weekend of the tournament. I'm past the point of caring why.
That said, this doesn't particularly surprise me. Looking at all nine losses this season:So they are barely over .500 without suffering a single blowout and with only four losses that couldn't have been flipped by making a single shot.
- OT vs UNC, MSG
- OT at RU
- 2 points vs PU
- 3 points vs MN
- 3 points at UNL
- 7 points at UMD
- 9 points at Dook
- 9 points at IL
- 11 points vs SDSU, Maui
Their eight January games are a pretty good illustration of this:If we could trade those for four close wins and four close losses (or even four blowout losses) they would be 13-7/5-4 and I'd be content to wait and see. We can't and I'm not.
- A 16 point blowout of Northwestern in Evanston
- A 16 point blowout of Iowa at home
- Six fairly close losses
You wanna be Louisville? Cause this is how we get to be Louisville.Ehhh, that’s extremely extreme.
Ehhh, that’s extremely extreme.Heh well yeah, you have to really try to be as bad as Louisville. But Louisville is a bigger basketball program than OSU, ran their coach off when he didn't deliver Louisville basketball, and now find themselves among the Wagners and Arkansas-Pine-Bluffs. OSU basketball really doesn't have a ton of support in the community - the arena sucks and they don't sell out. I still have a subscription the The Athletic and it doesn't even cover OSU basketball anymore. All that's to say, OSU used to be attractive because you got the perks of a giant athletic department without the pressure. With NIL, I'm not sure how much the Buckeyes can compete. It's very nebulous to speculate on such a thing with the lack of hard numbers anywhere, but that's been my biggest worry.
Like, a program like OSU that has teams that deliver worse records than their ability eventually makes a change. I think Wisconsin could treadmill, but OSU’s talent access should allow for at least one team after the first.
I might just be worn down by Medina essays, so that might just be my problem.
Illinois looks bad.Luckily for the Badgers' next game is an easy one.
Wisconsin looks worse.
20-16 at the half.
THE HALF!!
Heh well yeah, you have to really try to be as bad as Louisville. But Louisville is a bigger basketball program than OSU, ran their coach off when he didn't deliver Louisville basketball, and now find themselves among the Wagners and Arkansas-Pine-Bluffs. OSU basketball really doesn't have a ton of support in the community - the arena sucks and they don't sell out. I still have a subscription the The Athletic and it doesn't even cover OSU basketball anymore. All that's to say, OSU used to be attractive because you got the perks of a giant athletic department without the pressure. With NIL, I'm not sure how much the Buckeyes can compete. It's very nebulous to speculate on such a thing with the lack of hard numbers anywhere, but that's been my biggest worry.Obviously that was an extreme example but even if that were something like a 50/50 proposition, I just don't care.
Ehhh, that’s extremely extreme.
Like, a program like OSU that has teams that deliver worse records than their ability eventually makes a change. I think Wisconsin could treadmill, but OSU’s talent access should allow for at least one team after the first.
I might just be worn down by Medina essays, so that might just be my problem.
Come on now. The Medina essays are the best part.LoL, thanks!
Medina,It is looking more and more like you are right.
IU might be worthy of moving to Tier 2, I think if they beat Mich St this weekend we should move them, if not they stay where they are. Something has changed with them.
Luckily for the Badgers' next game is an easy one.No such thing anymore.
No such thing anymore.Things are not well in Columbus either, I think even @MaximumSam (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1572) would agree with that. I guess Thursday's game is a "get right" game for someone.
Something is off in Madison. Really off.
It is looking more and more like you are right.
It seems like they flipped a switch sometime between their January 11 loss to Penn State and their January 14 win over Wisconsin. As you put it, something has changed with them.
They opened January with three straight losses and two of them were BAD:
- A home loss to NU on 1/8
- A 19 point blowout at PSU on 1/11
Since then they have won five straight. That in and of itself isn't all that impressive when you consider that three were at home (UW, MSU, tOSU) and a fourth was MN. Thus, only the Illinois win was unexpected.
What stands out to me is that the Hoosiers have been dominant:
- 18 point win over UW
- 15 point win at IL
- 13 point win over MSU
- 4 point win at MN
- 16 point win over tOSU
No such thing anymore.I agree, something is out of whack there. I will be at the game on 3/2 when Purdue rolls into town.
Something is off in Madison. Really off.
I agree, something is out of whack there. I will be at the game on 3/2 when Purdue rolls into town.You will have a great time.
Have you seen MSU play in Mackey?Well, you were right.
Well, you were right.Considering Purdue is the clearly better team, this is actually one of MSUs better efforts there
Fwiw, this is more what I expect from #1!
My prediction for the rest of Ohio State's season, care to compare @MaximumSam (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1572) ?LOL I'm not at the point where I can pick the Buckeyes in any game. Lemme see how they look against the Badgers.
The Buckeyes will win their next four (vsUW, @M, vsNU, vsMSU) to improve to 15-10/7-7.
Then they will lose two straight (@IA, @PU) to drop to 15-12/7-9.
Then they have a three game home stand (PSU, IL, UMD) and they will win two of the three to improve to 17-13/9-10 before losing their last game at MSU to finish 17-14/9-11.
They will probably make the tournament where they will not last past the first weekend.
LOL I'm not at the point where I can pick the Buckeyes in any game. Lemme see how they look against the Badgers.Not saying I'm clairvoyant, just my guess.
Not saying I'm clairvoyant, just my guess.Oh I know, I meant my emotions are way too negative to be picking wins and losses. I would just predict L L L L L L L L L L L L
I thought you were going to move IU to Tier 2 alsoYou are right.
I'm on board with the proposal.
Looks good to me as well
Looks good here. Except I might add a blank between Purdue and the group, although I guess Purdue lost to Rutgers, won by 1 at MSU, and hasn't gone to Bloomington yet.Since there is general agreement at least so far, I've gone ahead and made the changes.
My first resume only Bracket of the year (2/3 SOR, 1/3 KenPom), for now using SOR to determine regular season champ, and KenPom for tourney champ1/30 Update (last update where I use SOR to determine regular season conference champ)
Haven't updated the Massey composite rankings in a while. (54 rankings - last week in parenthesis)This seems a lot more realistic than tOSU's 28/29 in KenPom/NET.
- 50. Ohio State (41)
I'm not taking anything for granted yet. IIRC, there was a season about 5 or 6 years ago maybe where Michigan had a 2 or 3 game lead on everyone else and we were pretty much ready to crown them, and then they lost like three of their last four games.Maryland in 2020. They had a come from behind win in East Lansing to go 3 games up with 5 to play. Then they lost 3 of 4, while MSU and Wisconsin won 5 in a row. IIRC 4 of MSUs 5 wins were over ranked teams, including winning at Maryland. Maryland had to beat Michigan in the finale just to hold onto a share
This is a quirky league. I assume nothing.
Maryland in 2020. They had a come from behind win in East Lansing to go 3 games up with 5 to play. Then they lost 3 of 4, while MSU and Wisconsin won 5 in a row. IIRC 4 of MSUs 5 wins were over ranked teams, including winning at Maryland. Maryland had to beat Michigan in the finale just to hold onto a shareWhile I agree that is the same situation, I could have sworn it was Michigan. I'll have to look it up later when I am less sleep deprived (Currently on my 41st hour of work this week that is what?....54 hours into it?)
I'm not taking anything for granted yet. IIRC, there was a season about 5 or 6 years ago maybe where Michigan had a 2 or 3 game lead on everyone else and we were pretty much ready to crown them, and then they lost like three of their last four games.If I were a Purdue fan, or if it were my Buckeyes at 10-1 and three games up on the field, I'd feel the same way.
This is a quirky league. I assume nothing.
While I agree that is the same situation, I could have sworn it was Michigan. I'll have to look it up later when I am less sleep deprived (Currently on my 41st hour of work this week that is what?....54 hours into it?)2013 Michigan lost on a tip at home at the buzzer to Indiana. If Michigan won, it would have been a 3 way tie with UM, MSU and IU, but that preserved a solo title for Indiana. But Michigan was never in first place at any point in the season.
Today is the day that drops UW out of the NCAA tournament.I don't think this game does that, even if UW loses. I have them losing tonight and heading to Chicago at 9-11/17-13. I *THINK* that would be at least plausibly on the bubble so I don't think UW is in "must-win" territory yet.
(https://i.imgur.com/RDCt2ic.png)I think I'd be more inclined to think:
L
W
L
L
L
L
W
L
L
L
The Buckeyes are getting absolutely annihilated by the Badgers.If Notre Dame would like to hire Holtmann at halftime, that would be terrific.
Today is the day that drops UW out of the NCAA tournament.LoL, you underestimate Chris Holtmann's ability to cure whatever ails Ohio State's opponents.
Tonight's games:The two road teams are just obliterating their hosts.Both are interesting to me because both involve two teams from the 2-12 group of bunched up teams in the league. As I see it, the games are MUCH more important to the home teams because you just can't afford to drop home games.
- Michigan+3.5 at Northwestern, 7pm ESPN2
- Wisconsin+7.5 at Ohio State, 7pm FS1
IMHO, an Ohio State loss here would be catastrophic.It is no longer a 2-12 bunch. The Buckeyes join the Huskers and Gophers (both of which already beat Ohio State) as definitively inferior to the rest.
when the Buckeyes lose they drop to just one-half game ahead of Nebraska two games behind PSU/UW. The Buckeyes would be basically out of the 2-12 group which would become a 2-11 group with Ohio State joining UNL and MN definitively inferior to the 2-12 teams.
He should be fired tonight.Told ya.
The lack of coherence from this Buckeyes team is not something I expected. Not enough guard play, everything through a couple of power posts and Key. Defense that is just not very good. (Did work on the glass, though)They are a mess. Honestly, I think the problem is Sensabaugh. He's amazingly efficient as a freshman scorer, but he never passes. And now the team never passes.
Not sure how to feel about the UW team. They need a couple dig-down performances, but they're a 5-4 finish from going dancing. Interested to see how it goes. Point guard played it right tonight. If he can hit some tough ones, that's a big swing.
I plan to drop Ohio State into the blank tier between Nebraska and Minnesota.I agree with this
Their two best games are the win over Rutgers and the blowout win in Evanston but those were on December 8 and January 1. Since then they are 1-8 including a loss to Nebraska and a home loss to Minnesota. At this point they are horrible.
Thoughts?
Oh I know, I meant my emotions are way too negative to be picking wins and losses. I would just predict L L L L L L L L L L L LThe tier system has now officially adopted the @MaximumSam (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1572) prediction as the Buckeyes are now in tier-5 and projected to lose all of their nine remaining games.
As of this moment, there is a 3.5 game difference between 1st place and 2nd place.The gap between 2nd and 11th has gotten even closer as there is now only a two game differential between:
As of this moment, there is a 3.5 game difference between 2nd place and 12th place.
Sheesh, what a year.
A few days ago I pointed out that this is the least exciting league title race I can remember. @grillrat (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=11) objected, I think mostly because he didn't want to jinx it and I understand that, but I think that this weekend is the last real chance to make it a serious race.So this got me looking at older conference races. I started with low-loss teams and started looking at the standings. (Went back to 2005)
So this got me looking at older conference races. I started with low-loss teams and started looking at the standings. (Went back to 2005)I think there was an MSU team that won by 4 or 5 games in the 18 game era, but more because the conference wasn't deep. I was to say they were 14-4 and next best was 10-8?
2015 Wisconsin lost third third Big 10 game, but then won 10 in a row. They were up three games when they played at second-place Maryland, who won, but UW won the rest and the next closest team finished four back.
2014 won the conference by 3 games, but won it's last 5 after a 10-3 start. MSU was right with them til early Feb, and UW fell back early.
2011 Ohio State opened 11-0, was 3 up in the loss column as of 2/12. They lost two and had UW and Purdue at their heels for a bit, but won the last four.
2005 Illinois started 15-0. UW got conference loss No. 3 on Feb 5. MSU got loss No. 2 on Feb 1.
Badgers waste little time crapping on the hope I had for them.I regret to inform you that your Badgers are not nearly as good as my Buckeyes made them look.
They're in a weird spot because their not best starters are playing fine to good, but their best players (better than those other guys) are not playing well enough, which creates a weird spot for roster transition, should it come in the offseason.
I regret to inform you that your Badgers are not nearly as good as my Buckeyes made them look.Medina, I mean it as nicely as possible.
Medina, I mean it as nicely as possible.I really didn't mean it as "Buckeye wallowing". I was thinking of it from an opposing team's fan perspective. Not all that long ago, Ohio State was a ranked team. Thus, if I were a Wisconsin, Indiana, or Illinois fan it would be easy to look at my team's recent win over Ohio State and over-value it.
I didn’t care about how the buckeyes made the Badgers look. Not one bit. I looked at the schedule, I looked at the analytics, and I did a little hoping. I put no weight into the quality of the buckeyes other than to say that Wisconsin won a game it was supposed to lose, and it badly needed win volume.
I’m just very tired of the Buckeye wallowing and did not and I am not going to bring it into my experience of my own team. I’m sorry this season makes you sad.
Just goes to show how good Johnny Davis and Brad Davison were. This is essentially the same lineup, minus them.A Gard without guards just isn't the same
Minnesota at Illinois game postponed due to COVID within Minnesota's teamWow. Old school. Turn back the clock!
I really didn't mean it as "Buckeye wallowing". I was thinking of it from an opposing team's fan perspective. Not all that long ago, Ohio State was a ranked team. Thus, if I were a Wisconsin, Indiana, or Illinois fan it would be easy to look at my team's recent win over Ohio State and over-value it.I was a bit snappy, not in the best mood. But, my dude, I've responded to your posts several times. I know very well where OSU was. I didn't build much hope off the performance.
Maybe I misread your post. I typed my "regret to inform you . . ." post in response to your post (shortly after UW's loss to NU) where you said that the "Badgers waste little time crapping on the hope (you) had for them." I took that to mean that you had built up hope at least partly based on the Badger's win over tOSU. I was thinking that doing so would appear to be somewhat reasonable.
I was a bit snappy, not in the best mood. But, my dude, I've responded to your posts several times. I know very well where OSU was. I didn't build much hope off the performance.Ok, fair enough.
I looked at it simply. UW needed a 6-5 finish to lock in a spot in the dance after the OSU win. Yesterday was the third-best chance at a win that had been left on the schedule. They lost it. I was mad.
I promise, I've read plenty of your posts about the OSU situation. I need no reminding of your assessment of the team.
I think MSU probably needs 6 more wins. The easiest path is to win the 4 home games, starting tonight with Maryland (plus Minnesota, Indiana, OSU), then getting 2 more out of @Minnesota, @OSU, BTT.?
that doesn't happen often on this threadThat I make a mistake? Incorrect
I think MSU probably needs 6 more wins. The easiest path is to win the 4 home games, starting tonight with Maryland (plus Minnesota, Indiana, OSU), then getting 2 more out of @Minnesota, @OSU, BTT.I also tend to use 20 wins as a benchmark that generally means a B1G team is safely in.
Minnesota at Illinois game postponed due to COVID within Minnesota's teamIf you see anything about a reschedule for this, please share here.
I think that you will be able to tell alot from IU's game this weekend @ Michigan. IU has left Assembly Hall 10 times and lost 6 of them.They didn't look great in College Park but at the end of the day it was a single-digit road loss to a team that is nearly perfect at home on the season.
They have 4 of their next 5 games on the road (@Mich, @NW, Illini, @MSU, @PU), so this is the part of the schedule that will determine if IU is vying for 2nd place in the Big Ten or dropping three of those and ending up in the morass of 6th thru 11th place.
So if IU has improved to the level we had thought that they were capable of, then yes, that is definitely one of MSU's toughest games. The Maryland game kinda keeps me from thinking that though. They looked fairly putrid in that game.
If you see anything about a reschedule for this, please share here.Illinois vs Minnesota rescheduled for Feb 20th
Illinois vs Minnesota rescheduled for Feb 20thThank you!
Another shocker.Wisconsin's win in State College moves them up to the projected #10 seed because it moves them into a projected tie for #10/11 with PSU and they win that tie based on H2H. Thus, Wisconsin is now projected to start BTT play on Thursday with PSU (11), UNL (12), tOSU (13) and MN (14) starting on Wednesday.
Wisconsin beats Penn State in OT. Some folks looked better, but not sure what to take from this, other than this team really lacks "give up," as I'd expect from a Gard team.I'm thinking 5-2. They have to win at UNL and at MN. Without those, it's not happening. Probably gonna need to win at least one in the BTT too.
They still need to go 4-3 to be dancing. They either need to win all the notably winnables the rest of the way, or grab another upset. I think if they ended the regular season 17-13, they'd need two in Indy.
Was nice to see Tyler Wahl look more in sorts. Roady to Nebraska will be interesting.
I'm thinking 5-2. They have to win at UNL and at MN. Without those, it's not happening. Probably gonna need to win at least one in the BTT too.18-13 is going to get a Big Ten team in the dance. Especially one with OK Q1 numbers and no bad losses.
Honestly now, who loses at home to Northwestern?Rude
Honestly now, who loses at home to Northwestern?No need to discuss here, people are sick of this discussion in this thread, but visit my other one to discuss:
Seth Greensburg mentioned on the broadcast how Purdue didn't get called for their 2nd foul until the 2nd half, and the crowd booed incessantly . Glad it's gaining steamvery few fouls in the first half were called in general, Iowa was shooting jumpers, therefore fewer opportunities to draw fouls. Tied of this narrative.
Right now, the nerd math projects UW finishing one game out of functional lock status, which I'm guessing would mean needing to win twice in Indy (18-13 is probably in, 18-14 is our bubble, 19-14 that includes a higher-level Big Ten win is probably in). The biggest BTT risk is that if the seeds fall wrong, they might get a PSU-Purdue path, and I want none of that.I will guarantee that Wisconsin will not win a BTT game in Indy this year.
The projected win percentages the rest of the way:
74
58
56
52
41
30
26
So it's basically about going 4-1 in that top group, which means win three of the next four. If they want to win the next four or win three and then upset someone to take the pressure off that last game, I'd take that as well.
I will guarantee that Wisconsin will not win a BTT game in Indy this year.All BTTs are spiritually in Indy for me. Even the ones not there.
So it's basically about going 4-1 in that top group, which means win three of the next four. If they want to win the next four or win three and then upset someone to take the pressure off that last game, I'd take that as well.So, as a Wisconsin fan, how critical do you think it is for the Badgers to win the game this afternoon in Lincoln?
So, as a Wisconsin fan, how critical do you think it is for the Badgers to win the game this afternoon in Lincoln?Hmmm, that's interesting.
From my perspective as a neutral observer, it might be slightly over-dramatic to call it a "must win", but only slightly. As I see it, there is still a path with a loss today but that path involves winning tougher games than this one.
BPI gives OSU a 73.1% chance to win tomorrow at home against MSULoL, can I get MSU at 3:1?
BPI gives OSU a 73.1% chance to win tomorrow at home against MSUSo you're saying there's a chance
So you're saying there's a chance
Well, that sucked.should have taken my wager
The tiers should just be...Oh no, Michigan immediately shit their pants. However shall I recover?
1: Purdue
2: Nobody
3: Everyone not in 1 or 5
4: Nobody
5: Minnesota
I think that you will be able to tell alot from IU's game this weekend @ Michigan. IU has left Assembly Hall 10 times and lost 6 of them.Well, they got out of Crisler with a win!
They have 4 of their next 5 games on the road (@Mich, @NW, Illini, @MSU, @PU), so this is the part of the schedule that will determine if IU is vying for 2nd place in the Big Ten or dropping three of those and ending up in the morass of 6th thru 11th place.
So if IU has improved to the level we had thought that they were capable of, then yes, that is definitely one of MSU's toughest games. The Maryland game kinda keeps me from thinking that though. They looked fairly putrid in that game.
should have taken my wagerWhen one of those bad teams was up 17 and couldn't hold off another bad team, what in the F?
I'm not shocked, but I'm surprised
I watched the whole thing
I saw a couple bad teams - somebody had to win, inspite of themselves
When one of those bad teams was up 17 and couldn't hold off another bad team, what in the F?Yeah.
LoL, can I get MSU at 3:1?BPI doesn't take any coaching situation into account. Nor does it take into account the names of the teams at all.
I don't think BPI is taking the coaching situation into account. First, Izzo's teams typically improve over the course of a season much more than an average team and peak in March.
Ohio State on pace to hold MSU to 54 . . . and lose by 26.A preview of our future if we hire the Dieblers
Coaching staff doing a bang up job right Max?
MSU has blown nine 8+ point leads this year. Some they've held onto to win (Villanova, Oregon, Portland, Michigan, Maryland), some they wound up losing (Gonzaga, Illinois, Indiana, Rutgers)And here...we...go...
And here...we...go...OSU specializes in bricking a shot, getting back on defense, then not finding the other team's best shooter in transition
We were actually up by more against Rutgers at this point last weekend
OSU specializes in bricking a shot, getting back on defense, then not finding the other team's best shooter in transitionSounds like my son's third grade team. They argue over who is guarding who, and frequently nobody picks up the ball
Northwestern has been a road monster, but they pulled off a home upset?It is pretty amazing considering how awful Northwestern has been at home.
Buckeyes finally fell out of Quad 1, killing a resume builder for like everyoneYeah, new NET rankings:
Road games are hard part 9 million:At this point, in this particular season nationwide, any road win is a big road win.
Purdue is the best team in our league and by a large margin and yet here are their road games:That is . . . not terribly impressive.
- Lost in Bloomington.
- Lost in Evanston.
- Needed OT in Lincoln.
- Won by a bucket in Columbus only because tOSU committed a bone-head devastating turnover to get the Boilermakers back in the game.
- Won by a single point in East Lansing.
- Won by five in Ann Arbor.
- Blew out Minnesota.
At this point, in this particular season nationwide, any road win is a big road win.Agreed.
Arizona just lost on the road on Saturday to a 11-14 Stanford team.
Alabama got absolutely blasted a couple of weeks ago to a 12-13 Oklahoma team
KSU lost on the road to a blah 13-12 Texas Tech team.
On Friday, a good Xavier team couldn't overcome one of the worst Butler teams in 15 years.
I wont knock any road win at all. That's going to be the difference between a 1 / 2 seed and a 7 / 8 seed this year.
Not gonna lie, I am still so effing mad about that Nebraska game.Same.
There was a sort of weird discussion on another message board I frequent. Basically, despite the struggles, there was some rallying around the sophomore point guard who has a case as the team’s best player (all the best players are a degree of flawed). Basically arguing that this was a learning year, and he’s going to be a stud for the next two.
And it’s weird because one of the main things preventing us from being an NCAA tournament team is that he is not a stud. And if he is very good they’re much closer to solid. So it’s difficult to simultaneously preach a teardown off-season and be highly protective of his potential. Because if he’s as good as they hope, the offseason nerds are much less. And if the needs are great, one big part is getting him a player who can act as training wheels for his bucket-getting deficiencies.
My first resume only Bracket of the year (2/3 SOR, 1/3 KenPom), for now using SOR to determine regular season champ, and KenPom for tourney champ2/13 Update (now using actual standings to determine regular season conference champ, and excluding sub .500 teams)
Over the weekend there were two upsets:Huskers win over Badgers felt like an upset
- Indiana's win in Ann Arbor, and
- Northwestern's win over Purdue.
Huskers win over Badgers felt like an upsetIt did but Badgers are tier-3 while Huskers are tier-4 so that result matched the projection.
I'm pretty tired today. Stayed up to watch UW get a win. Glad for that, else I'd be tired and mad.A friend wanted to do some kind of the anti-Valentine’s Day shindig. I almost opted out, but decided to be social.
Plus, if Purdue drops to the 2 line, they would have to play a 15 seed the first round, instead of the S16 round like last year.I hope the Purdue fans don't get too upset with me for saying this but history suggests that if our league's NCAA success is mostly dependent on the Boilermakers making a deep run we are in trouble.
Sounds unlikely that MSU-Minnesota will get made up, because Minnesota already is making up the COVID cancelled game with IllinoisWhich, obviously sports aren't what matters right now, and its unclear if all the basketball players stayed on campus.
Considering how bunched the standings are, losing that win, could mean the difference between being in like a 4 way tie for third, and finishing in 6th, or whatever.In the current projection it doesn't change MSU's seed.
In the current projection it doesn't change MSU's seed.Yeah, but what are the chances everything goes according to script?
With a win over MN, MSU was projected to finish 12-8 and in a five-way tie for 2nd-6th. However, MSU loses that tie so they get the #6 seed.
Without the assumed win over MN, the Spartans would be projected to finish alone in 6th place.
Yeah, but what are the chances everything goes according to script?Oh I agree. I didn't mean to suggest that it would, just laying out the projection as a baseline.
^^^ Love that.If an MSU player wore a ski mask into a game, less than 24 hours after there had been a mass shooting at UM, by a guy in a mask, the Detroit media would have gone scorched earth
A tweet by a former Badger...
[img width=274.381 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/QrjY1ws.png[/img]
If an MSU player wore a ski mask into a game, less than 24 hours after there had been a mass shooting at UM, by a guy in a mask, the Detroit media would have gone scorched earthRightfully so.
Everyone who predicted that Northwestern would be the last team with a plausible chance to catch Purdue for the league title raise your hand.My hands are in my pockets.
My hands are in my pockets.Yeah, pretty sure nobody called this!
Everyone who predicted that Northwestern would be the last team with a plausible chance to catch Purdue for the league title raise your hand.Should OSU hire Chris Collins?
Should OSU hire Chris Collins?Doug is available.
Somebody on another board asked the question last week:Purdue at 12-2.
If you had to put a $1000 bet at the beginning of the season on which was more likely to happen by February 11th, which would you do: Purdue at 12-2 or OSU at 3-10?
Somebody on another board asked the question last week:Easy bet. Parlay it with "Purdue sitting at #1 in the country for much of the season, winning the B1G regular season, losing in the BTT, and not making the Final Four" and you'll be rich!
If you had to put a $1000 bet at the beginning of the season on which was more likely to happen by February 11th, which would you do: Purdue at 12-2 or OSU at 3-10?
I'm ready to start the 23-24 BB thread.And yet OSU still "technically" has a path, and we are only like 2 weeks from the end of the regular season.
And yet OSU still "technically" has a path, and we are only like 2 weeks from the end of the regular season.Plausible?
Imagine if every college football fan treated the season the same when they picked up their 2nd loss of the season.
OSU still has a more plausible path to a national title than half the Big Ten has in football on October 1
Out of curiosity, now that it would be a five-way tie, how does MSU do if they make up and beat Minnesota?These could probably be LSAT problems but here goes:
A sense of normalcy might be good for the kids, but it won't really be normal with all of the stuff UM is doing.Yeah, if this was just a random midweek game against Iowa or something, ok. A rivalry game, with heightened emotions, eh....
At roughly 3/4 of the way through the season, here is the updated projection:I honestly can’t tell if the tiersdictate Ohio State finishes on that level of losing streak, or if Medina has simply banished Ohio State to the Minnesota tier.
- 16-4/27-4 Purdue
- 12-8/21-10 Maryland
- 12-8/21-10 Northwestern
- 12-8/21-10 Indiana
- 12-8/21-10 Illinois
- 11-8/19-11 Michigan State
- 11-9/19-12 Iowa (wins tie with RU based on H2H, won in Piscataway)
- 11-9/19-12 Rutgers
- 10-10/18-12 Wisconsin
- 10-10/16-15 Michigan
- 10-10/19-12 Penn State
- 8-12/15-16 Nebraska
- 3-17/11-20 Ohio State
- 1-18/7-22 Minnesota
Tiebreaker for the four teams tied for 2nd through 5th at 12-8, the tie is broken based on H2H2H2H:
- 3-0 Maryland, does not visit Bloomington, Urbana-Champaign, nor Evanston
- 3-2 Northwestern, does not host UMD, beat IU in Bloomington
- 2-3 Indiana, does not host UMD, beat IL in Champaign, lost at home to NU
- 1-4 Illinois, does not host UMD, lost at home to IU
Tiebreaker for the three teams tied for 9th through 11th at 10-10, the tie is broken based on H2H2H:
- 3-1 Wisconsin, won in State College
- 2-2 Michigan
- 1-3 Penn State, lost at home to UW
Thus, the projected match-ups for the BTT at the United Center in Chicago, Illinois are:
Wednesday, March 8, BTN:Thursday, March 9, BTN:
- #11 Penn State vs #14 Minnesota, 830
- #12 Nebraska vs #13 Ohio State, 6
Friday, March 10, BTN:
- #5 Illinois vs UNL/tOSU, 230
- #6 Michigan State vs PSU/MN, 9
- #7 Iowa vs #10 Michigan, 630
- #8 Rutgers vs #9 Wisconsin, noon
Saturday, March 11, CBS:
- #1 Purdue vs RU/UW, noon
- #2 Maryland vs IA/M, 630
- #3 Northwestern vs MSU/PSU/MN, 9
- #4 Indiana vs IL/UNL/tOSU, 230
Sunday, March 12, CBS:
- PU/RU/UW vs IU/IL/UNL/tOSU, 1
- UMD/IA/M vs NU/MSU/PSU/MN, 330
- PU/RU/UW/IU/IL/UNL/tOSU vs UMD/IA/M/NU/MSU/PSU/MN, 330
Note above that for now I am assuming that the Minnesota/Michigan State game will NOT be rescheduled. Thus, those two teams only have 19 projected games rather than 20 like the other 12 teams. If that changes, let me know.
I honestly can’t tell if the tiersdictate Ohio State finishes on that level of losing streak, or if Medina has simply banished Ohio State to the Minnesota tier.A couple of weeks ago I proposed moving the Buckeyes into the previously empty tier between Nebraska and Minnesota. To be perfectly honest, I was hoping that I was just overreacting out of frustration and that some of the neutral fans here would talk me back. Instead, everyone who spoke up concurred so the Buckeyes dropped into tier-5:
I plan to drop Ohio State into the blank tier between Nebraska and Minnesota.I posted this on February 2. Only @boilerbanger (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=56) and @847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) replied, but they both agreed.
Their two best games are the win over Rutgers and the blowout win in Evanston but those were on December 8 and January 1. Since then they are 1-8 including a loss to Nebraska and a home loss to Minnesota. At this point they are horrible.
Thoughts?
I posted this on February 2. Only @boilerbanger (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=56) and @847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) replied, but they both agreed.Very simple. All you need to do is occasionally throw in a proposed tier move that makes no sense and will rile EVERYONE up.
If I seem overly defensive about your comment, it is because while I manage the tier thing and do all the tiebreaker calculations and whatnot, I REALLY don't want it to be simply "Medina's projections", I look for concensus because I want it to be a board thing, not just me.
The more I think about it, the more I think playing this weekend is a bad idea. Baseball might be a different case, because I believe they were already out in Arizona when this happenedThe fact that out of respect to the victims, the MSU baseball and softball Twitter accounts are not actually updating. The scores this weekend, makes me even more sure they probably shouldn't be playing. If they are concerned that even updating scores is going to get blow back based on the vibes on campus
Very simple. All you need to do is occasionally throw in a proposed tier move that makes no sense and will rile EVERYONE up.
People are quiet about their opinion when they agree with you. But say something they disagree with, and you'll get engagement!
The fact that out of respect to the victims, the MSU baseball and softball Twitter accounts are not actually updating. The scores this weekend, makes me even more sure they probably shouldn't be playing. If they are concerned that even updating scores is going to get blow back based on the vibes on campusAnd then softball won 7-0, baseball crushed UM 15-8, and hockey is up AT Wisconsin 3-0, so maybe it's all good
I posted this on February 2. Only @boilerbanger (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=56) and @847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) replied, but they both agreed.No worries and didn't mean to offense. That 3-17 really popped, and I didn't realize we'd wedged Nebraska into its won tier. As such, when I saw three home losses, I was sure I was missing something. Which I was.
If I seem overly defensive about your comment, it is because while I manage the tier thing and do all the tiebreaker calculations and whatnot, I REALLY don't want it to be simply "Medina's projections", I look for concensus because I want it to be a board thing, not just me.
Rutgers 8-7 has been struggling lately and Wisconsin 7-8 has been struggling longer. If it weren't for Rutgers' recent struggles I'd see this as a prime opportunity for them to pick up a road win. This game, as I see it, is big for the bubble. If Rutgers loses they fall onto the bubble and Wisconsin props up their narrowing chances. If Wisconsin loses their path gets REALLY narrow and Rutgers stays slightly above bubble talk.This game fascinates me because, as you said, it either opens up or closes off a lot for UW.
This game fascinates me because, as you said, it either opens up or closes off a lot for UW.Teh fat lady is singing. It's Ovah!!
A win, and UW needs to go 1-2 in the next three and hold off the Gophers at home to (likely) lock in a spot. A loss, and you need all that to just head to the BTT as a bubble team.
My gut is that unless the NET is really held against them (not supposed to happen, but sometimes does), a 18-13 finish with that schedule is good enough. And if they go to Chicago at 16-14, they'll have to reach Saturday just to have a bubble chance. But 17-13 going to Chicago is interesting. I don't think a 17-14 finish would do it, though it's not out of the realm if the bubble is super soft. 18-14 is in the mix, and I feel like 19-14 is very probably in.
The downside is opponent. Unless UW can drop below Neb, you're likely talking either Wed vs. Minnesota (little upside beyond a win, season-ending downside) and then a second-round game against PSU (Awful), or just PSU. Either way, I won't feel good about this.
I spend all this time thinking about this and it means a loss tomorrow is pretty likely. Both teams are good at D and have what look like limited benches. If UW could just deliver a win, I'd be appreciative.
This game fascinates me because, as you said, it either opens up or closes off a lot for UW.Yep, Wisconsin's path is really narrow now.
A win, and UW needs to go 1-2 in the next three and hold off the Gophers at home to (likely) lock in a spot. A loss, and you need all that to just head to the BTT as a bubble team.
Welp, that sucked.There is something wrong with Chucky right now. They looked so much better with McGee on the floor, and he was on the floor a ton. I was hoping they'd leave him out there to finish the game, but nope. Back to Chucky. And a loss.
I didn't watch most of it because it gives me angst and I instead went on a very long run.
Watched the end, read a bit about it. They basically did all the non-shooting stuff better (though that late missed box out was just a killer), but good shooters missed shot after shot. Having a late lead, losing it and missing three good looks to take it back was ... annoying.
Oh well. See if you can beat Iowa this week and go from there.
(Also hat tip to Jordan Davis and the backup point guard. Davis popped for 14 points, and Hepburn got in some dumb foul trouble and they didn't just crap all over the floor with the backup)
MSU has blown nine 8+ point leads this year. Some they've held onto to win (Villanova, Oregon, Portland, Michigan, Maryland), some they wound up losing (Gonzaga, Illinois, Indiana, Rutgers)Make it 10
There is something wrong with Chucky right now. They looked so much better with McGee on the floor, and he was on the floor a ton. I was hoping they'd leave him out there to finish the game, but nope. Back to Chucky. And a loss.I don't think some of McGee's shooting was sustainable, but I agree Chucky hasn't been as good as needed, and that's a big reason they're very likely not dancing
Not to pile on... Anything involving Gus Johnson is an immediate mute button - including his Hilton commercials. What an asshole.
No fan of Fran, but he got tossed arguing a 10 second call, that was obviously wrong because ref hubris is out of control. That crew should not work another game this year.Courtney Green strikes again!
I didn't think there was a call that could be so egregious that I would side with Fran against Northwestern basketball, but never overestimate college basketball refs
Courtney Green strikes again!(https://i.imgur.com/nVMMCYg.png)
My only thoughts would be to move the Minnesota-Rutgers game from Thursday 3/2, up to Tuesday 2/28, same day as MSU-Nebraska. Then play MSU-Minnesota on Thursday, 3/2. Or move Minnesota-Wisconsin up from Sunday 3/5, to Saturday 3/4, and then tack MSU-Minnesota onto the end on Monday, 3/6.Sounds like this is what they are looking at doing
(https://i.imgur.com/nVMMCYg.png)I have no idea what this post has to do with College Basketball but it seems like a good post nonetheless.
My first resume only Bracket of the year (2/3 SOR, 1/3 KenPom), for now using SOR to determine regular season champ, and KenPom for tourney champ2/21 Update (now using actual standings to determine regular season conference champ, and excluding sub .500 teams)
I see know.It’s interesting. I used to roll my eyes at his ride for one reason, but that reason was more old school sketchy than this mess.
Nope, don't want that guy.
Think MSU is probably in now as long as they don't lose out. Normally I hate being in the 7,8,9,10 group, but this year I don't even feel that way. The numbers I use project MSU to be a 6 seed, but most of the bracketologists have us at a 7. The difference there is smaller than it normally is. Although granted, I would still rather be on that six lineAs a Boiler fan, congrats on the win last night, looked ugly at the start but they got rolling with the 3s. Gets us 1 step closer to locking up the BIG regular season title, now rooting for Illinois on Thursday.
As a Boiler fan, congrats on the win last night, looked ugly at the start but they got rolling with the 3s. Gets us 1 step closer to locking up the BIG regular season title, now rooting for Illinois on Thursday.Can they officially knock out Indiana at home on Saturday?
Can they officially knock out Indiana at home on Saturday?Mathematically here is where we are:
It burns me that Wisconsin was once 12-2 and was a team that went to the wire with Kansas.Trade ya.
It was a 3 seed. It's now gonna be an NIT team.
Wisconsin went to the NCAA Tournament 19 years in a row before it missed out in 2018.
This will be second time under Gard that they will miss. So, 2 misses in 7 years.
I'm totally not used to this.
It burns me that Wisconsin was once 12-2 and was a team that went to the wire with Kansas.3-seed? I don’t think they were ever that good.
It was a 3 seed. It's now gonna be an NIT team.
Wisconsin went to the NCAA Tournament 19 years in a row before it missed out in 2018.
This will be second time under Gard that they will miss. So, 2 misses in 7 years.
I'm totally not used to this.
3-seed? I don’t think they were ever that good.Lunardi had them as a 3 early on.
It’s been interesting because this seems like either a development problem or good players needing to play better, more than anything.
I think in some spots there was too much confidence in the portal, but that will happen. Interesting moving forward is what sort of transfer losses they suffer. In theory, with the two freshmen bigs coming in, running it back is the least an appetizing option.
This won't be close.
Why did Meechie Johnson transfer out? I had totally forgot about him, until watching him play for South Carolina tonightGreener grass and such?
Greener grass and such?As I recall, he got a decent amount of playing time
I thought UW could win. I did not think it would be comfortable at the end.Playing at Michigan, isn't like playing at Penn State, or even Ohio State, which I think are the two least intimidating road venues to play at, but it's definitely in the bottom half. There is certainly a chance there. Wisconsin made a number of plays late, that showed me that they are still fighting for that bid. I think the way Michigan closed this weekend, turning a 6-point deficit into a 12-point win in the final 5 minutes, shows me they are still fighting too. Should be a fun game. And no 6 seed feels good about playing an 11 seed Wisconsin or Michigan that had to fight their way in off the bubble.
Basically played a deeply close game, then had a spurt between the 10:30 mark and the last media timeout (19-6 run).
UW actually hit 2s, which never happens. Bad from 3. Free throws still trash. Iowa offense just evaporated. Which we will take.
So UW clinches at least a .500 record on the year and a kind of wonky finish.
The most important game remains the last one. If they beat Minnesota on the road, they head to the BTT at least in the bubble convo. This sport is dumb, so they could also crap the bed.
The other two games are odd. They'll be solid underdogs at Michigan and hosting Purdue. They shouldn't win either, but each of those teams has had flighty moments and the sport is dumb.
I had Wisconsin up to a #4 in mid-December in my bracket. But also wanted to point out this response to medina's tiers having Wisconsin being 4-6 after 10 conference games :57:LoL, thanks!
As I recall, he got a decent amount of playing timeLooks like he was the 7th man as a second-year guy. Granted he was behind a 1-and-done freshman and a transfer senior. Maybe irked the staff didn't believe enough in him after Year 1 to not recruit over him.
Alabama deserves to lose every game Brandon Miller plays in. Them winning in OT when he scored over half his teams points is proof there is no sports god.That was all sorts of gross. Game was surprisingly competitive. Some of the national guys wondered if they shouldn't sit him with the thought they'd win anyway.
Gus Johnson literally spent more time talking about Larry nassar on Saturday, a gymnastics team doctor from 5 years ago, then ESPN's spend discussing the fact that Alabama's best player, who was actively on the court tonight, help to orchestrate a murder two months ago
Playing at Michigan, isn't like playing at Penn State, or even Ohio State, which I think are the two least intimidating road venues to play at, but it's definitely in the bottom half. There is certainly a chance there. Wisconsin made a number of plays late, that showed me that they are still fighting for that bid. I think the way Michigan closed this weekend, turning a 6-point deficit into a 12-point win in the final 5 minutes, shows me they are still fighting too. Should be a fun game. And no 6 seed feels good about playing an 11 seed Wisconsin or Michigan that had to fight their way in off the bubble.Would be extra fun if Michigan were to be on the right side of the ledger at the end.
Looks like he was the 7th man as a second-year guy. Granted he was behind a 1-and-done freshman and a transfer senior. Maybe irked the staff didn't believe enough in him after Year 1 to not recruit over him.And wasn't his second year technically his first full year? As I recall, he graduated high school early, and came in mid-year
That was all sorts of gross. Game was surprisingly competitive. Some of the national guys wondered if they shouldn't sit him with the thought they'd win anyway.The only problem is you either say he didn't do anything technically illegal, and therefore you aren't suspending him, or you admit he did what he apparently did, and that isn't a one-game suspension situation, that's an off the team situation. Bar fight, or even a DUI, where there is wiggle room as to just how severe the punishment should be. If you aren't kicking him off the team, you might as well just play him, because anything less than that is insufficient anyway
And wasn't his second year technically his first full year? As I recall, he graduated high school early, and came in mid-yearLooks like it. Did he get hurt? Minutes dipped as the year went on.
The only problem is you either say he didn't do anything technically illegal, and therefore you aren't suspending him, or you admit he did what he apparently did, and that isn't a one-game suspension situation, that's an off the team situation. Bar fight, or even a DUI, where there is wiggle room as to just how severe the punishment should be. If you aren't kicking him off the team, you might as well just play him, because anything less than that is insufficient anywayFor the sake of PR, you go "indefinite" and then let it cool a bit.
Why did Meechie Johnson transfer out? I had totally forgot about him, until watching him play for South Carolina tonightNo one ever really said, though my guess is the team didn't like him as a point guard because he shoots too much and he's too small to be an off guard, so they wouldn't promise him many minutes this season.
I give up on trying to know what UW is.Some degree of inconsistent mediocre.
I give up on trying to know what UW is.Helps that Iowa is now 6-52 (11.5%) for 3 over their past 2 games. Hopefully they keep that going on Saturday, but I'm not optimistic but it continuing in Carver
Has MSU/MN officially been rescheduled?Nope. There were some rumors that Minnesota-Rutgers was going to move up to 2/2, and then MSU-Minnesota would be 2/4, but then those kind of died off
If you @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) already posted, sorry I missed it.
Helps that Iowa is now 6-52 (11.5%) for 3 over their past 2 games. Hopefully they keep that going on Saturday, but I'm not optimistic but it continuing in CarverAnd we are appreciative.
Nope. There were some rumors that Minnesota-Rutgers was going to move up to 2/2, and then MSU-Minnesota would be 2/4, but then those kind of died offOk, thank you.
help to orchestrate a murder two months agothis simply isn't true. but there's enough vitriol all over the internet about this, so i'm not going to say anymore.
Ok, thank you.https://twitter.com/Graham_Couch/status/1628894978876342274?t=RvzL9WXU0oTyUMe4yqTTRg&s=19
When I do the next update I'll continue to assume that MSU and MN will have only 19 games each.
We'll see what happens tonight but there haven't been any upsets since the last update.
Well OSU padded the rebound stats on that last possessionDefinitely depressed the three point percentage though
Well OSU padded the rebound stats on that last possessionhttps://twitter.com/TheFieldOf68/status/1628930133183561728?t=nOJDrUCx9GR2vCW0PS7uMg&s=19
https://twitter.com/TheFieldOf68/status/1628930133183561728?t=nOJDrUCx9GR2vCW0PS7uMg&s=19Good coaches tell their players to make shots, not miss them
If Rutgers loses this home game, at what point are they in danger of missing the tournament. Theyve been horrible since Mag had his season ending injury, and they always say they factor that into selectionProbably not until they have lost every regular season game left. I think the rule about missing someone only counts for seating. Not selection.
If Rutgers loses this home game, at what point are they in danger of missing the tournament. Theyve been horrible since Mag had his season ending injury, and they always say they factor that into selectionI think this is a good illustration of why you and I and, by extension, this thread takes a very literal view of the term "lock". They might be in trouble.
Wow, the Wildcats are putting on a show in Champagne-Urbana!I spoke too soon.
Sounds like Rutgers isnt willing to move their game up. Maybe they'd like it back in the AAC?Sucks for MSU. The teams are so bunched up that right now this projects to be the difference between 2nd and 6th place.
https://twitter.com/PaulFanson/status/1628987570745925633?t=W_qtiObuMfgeg6YH6e-BMA&s=19
Sucks for MSU. The teams are so bunched up that right now this projects to be the difference between 2nd and 6th place.That was my second suggestion. But I think the highlighted part is the issue, particularly if there is a chance MSU could finish 11th. I think impacting other teams travel plans for Thursday vs. Friday isn't such a big deal, but if it could impact the Wednesday games, that gets tricky
I have a thought for Izzo to propose:I think there would be two potential objections:
- MSU's final game is already on Saturday (vs tOSU).
- Move Minnesota's final game (vs UW) up to Saturday from Sunday.
- MSU can host MN the Monday of the BTT.
- MN would then be playing Thursday (Vs RU), Saturday (Vs UW), Monday (At MSU), Wednesday (BTT).
- The field for the BTT couldn't be set until Monday night.
That was my second suggestion. But I think the highlighted part is the issue, particularly if there is a chance MSU could finish 11th. I think impacting other teams travel plans for Thursday vs. Friday isn't such a big deal, but if it could impact the Wednesday games, that gets trickyI hadn't thought of the possibility of MSU finishing 11th. Like you, I was thinking that the Thursday/Friday difference wasn't critical.
I think the other reason Izzo is pissed about this is that in the COVID year, he agreed to play 3 road games in a row, in 6 days, starting with a game at Rutgers with only a portion of his roster, and they lost by 30, and now Pikiell is saying it will mess up his players' class scheduleHe has a right to be pissed about Rutgers not willing to work with the league to reschedule.
This games is bananasUnbelievable .. you think that 1 point Fran gave up on that T was important? This is as crazy of a last 2 minutes I have ever seen.
And the dreaded 8 point leadAs predicted
Make it 1011
Did I just see on the bottom line that Iowa forced OT with a 23-10 run in the last 90 seconds? Is that right?Yes, I believe I saw it's the third biggest final minute comeback in college basketball history. I pointed out the number of times Michigan State has blown leads this year, even a few times where they've held on to win, but this certainly takes the cake
Helps that Iowa is now 6-52 (11.5%) for 3 over their past 2 games. Hopefully they keep that going on Saturday, but I'm not optimistic but it continuing in CarverThey made 6 3 pointers in 90 seconds today, including 4 in a row, lol
Yes, I believe I saw it's the third biggest final minute comeback in college basketball history. I pointed out the number of times Michigan State has blown leads this year, even a few times where they've held on to win, but this certainly takes the cakeThat sounds impossible
That sounds impossibleThe famous Texas A&m/ Northern Iowa NCAA tournament game is the largest. It was like 13 points with 30 seconds left.
and next Sparty gets a Tuesday senior night at the bank against a Hoiberg team on a 4-game streakAnd imagine how impressive it will be if they do it for the first time after three decades. Just throwing that out there
might have been a couple decades since the Huskers won 4 in a row in conference
I saw the highlights. It wasn’t like Michigan St kept turning it over or missing ft. Iowa just canned everything.They weren't getting rebounds. I think three of the six makes came off of an offensive rebound.
Proof that actual sports isn't a Disney movie. Generally the bad guys winUnbelievably tone deaf even if nothing else.
https://twitter.com/RobDauster/status/1629584672672960514?t=PPJfv0T31c3HUI3smpFG9w&s=19
big game for the wildcats todayHuge win for Indiana yesterday. If Northwestern had been able to protect their huge lead against Illinois the other day they'd be playing for a share of the B1G lead today!
outside shot at the conference title
Terps senior game
Huge win for Indiana yesterday. If Northwestern had been able to protect their huge lead against Illinois the other day they'd be playing for a share of the B1G lead today!shoot, that's right
Bad weekend for coaches who are entrenched in not fouling up 3 in final secondsI hate, with the very essence of my soul, that this is a strategy that is perfectly fine under the rules. I don't understand how they can change the rules every year to make every other thing a flagrant foul, but not that.
I hate, with the very essence of my soul, that this is a strategy that is perfectly fine under the rules. I don't understand how they can change the rules every year to make every other thing a flagrant foul, but not that.Why? You can foul at any point. You can intentionally foul to get back in the game. It's still a calculated risk, granted the numbers say you should. That's like saying you shouldn't be able to take a knee in football
Bad weekend for coaches who are entrenched in not fouling up 3 in final secondsRutgers seemed to get away with it.
Why? You can foul at any point. You can intentionally foul to get back in the game. It's still a calculated risk, granted the numbers say you should. That's like saying you shouldn't be able to take a knee in footballInterestingly, at lest as of a few years ago, they did not say that. Granted, I think the sheer frustration of it is worth something.
Why? You can foul at any point. You can intentionally foul to get back in the game. It's still a calculated risk, granted the numbers say you should. That's like saying you shouldn't be able to take a knee in footballBecause it makes the game suck. It tries to ruin the best thing about basketball. It makes the end of games completely boring and unwatchable.
Bad weekend for coaches who are entrenched in not fouling up 3 in final seconds
https://twitter.com/Bradsports2/status/1629957394221395968Pete not paying attention
No call. Such an asshole.Wisconsin needs to send that to the league office. That’s bullshit.
Zach Heilprin on Twitter: "Some scumbag stuff right here. https://t.co/0FtKzC75ZL" / Twitter (https://twitter.com/ZachHeilprin/status/1629934653720129538?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1629934653720129538|twgr^f4677a847a2d2c73107e657aaa3dc916fe3a20f9|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2F247sports.com%2Fcollege%2Fwisconsin%2Fboard%2Fbadgers-message-board-23%2F)
Because it makes the game suck. It tries to ruin the best thing about basketball. It makes the end of games completely boring and unwatchable.wasn't it wisconsin that did that vs psu and paterno got pissed? edit: i misread. it's not like taking a knee in football, it's like the situation i mentioned, where you're using foul rules, meant to punish you, to your advantage. akin to, as i mentioned originally, intentionally breaking the rule to milk the clock. taking a knee is a subset of a normal play, just a run play. basketball has synonymous play, walking it out.
Football actually did have this. I can't remember who did it but they kept committing penalties at the end of the half to keep the other team from getting the ball. The NFL changed the rules after that game. Why on earth basketball doesn't is bizarre. Losing teams committing fouls sucks, but it at least is harder to monitor because the losing team doesn't have anything more to lose. The winning team does, so it is an easy fix.
something else i've seen a lot of talking heads say should be in cbb, the timeout and advance to half court inbound. it's astounding to me so many people like this. to equate it with cfb, imagine if in the dying moments of the game, a team scores to take the lead, the opponent kneels the kickoff return, calls a timeout, and now gets the ball at the 50. just for the sake of having an exciting end to the game, one team gets a massive advantage. i absolutely hate that rule, and would be sad if implemented in cbb.I have always HATED that rule.
wasn't it wisconsin that did that vs psu and paterno got pissed? edit: i misread. it's not like taking a knee in football, it's like the situation i mentioned, where you're using foul rules, meant to punish you, to your advantage. akin to, as i mentioned originally, intentionally breaking the rule to milk the clock. taking a knee is a subset of a normal play, just a run play. basketball has synonymous play, walking it out.Yes. That was Wisconsin. In a game where someone accidentally messed up JoPa's leg.
Current NET rankings:
- 63 Ohio State
Remember that Quad-1 games are:
- H 1-30
- N 1-50
- A 1-75
No offense to Buckeyes fans, but imagine going 4-14 in conference so far and somehow still counting as a Quad-1 win if beaten at home...:a102:Yeah don't have to imagine...
No offense to Buckeyes fans, but imagine going 4-14 in conference so far and somehow still counting as a Quad-1 win if beaten at home...:a102:I don't know all the ins and outs of how various computer rankings work but I'm fairly certain that this is for the same reason that the Buckeyes remain, by far, KenPom's unluckiest team.
I don't know all the ins and outs of how various computer rankings work but I'm fairly certain that this is for the same reason that the Buckeyes remain, by far, KenPom's unluckiest team.I'm pretty sure this is all because Ohio State has a LOT of relatively close losses and only one close win, here are all of Ohio State's games so far this year to have been decided by single-digits:
The computers still like the Buckeyes, at least relatively. Note that tOSU's NET is better than UW and UNL and about the same as PSU and M despite all four of those teams having considerably better records than Ohio State.
My first resume only Bracket of the year (2/3 SOR, 1/3 KenPom), for now using SOR to determine regular season champ, and KenPom for tourney champ2/28 Update (now using actual standings to determine regular season conference champ, and excluding sub .500 teams)
I don't know all the ins and outs of how various computer rankings work but I'm fairly certain that this is for the same reason that the Buckeyes remain, by far, KenPom's unluckiest team.Most of the predictive metrics give MSU roughly the same chances tonight on the road at Nebraska as they do at home against Ohio State this weekend
The computers still like the Buckeyes, at least relatively. Note that tOSU's NET is better than UW and UNL and about the same as PSU and M despite all four of those teams having considerably better records than Ohio State.
Most of the predictive metrics give MSU roughly the same chances tonight on the road at Nebraska as they do at home against Ohio State this weekendThey do?
They do?As far as win probability Im seeing 64 vs 69
I see a 3- to 4-point gap in projected lines?
100 points followed by 40 points. Terrific12 points in the first 14 minutes. 68 in the remaining 26
I'm pretty sure this is all because Ohio State has a LOT of relatively close losses and only one close win, here are all of Ohio State's games so far this year to have been decided by single-digits:One possession games in bold. So the Buckeyes are 1-3 in one-possession games and 1-12 in single-digit games. If they were had won almost half (gone 6-7) they'd be 17-12 and on the bubble just like M and PSU. Instead they've been nearly shut out in close games so they are 12-17.
- L by 9 at Dook
- W by 1 vs RU
- L by 5 in OT vs UNC, neutral site
- L by 2 vs PU
- L by 7 at UMD
- L by 3 vs MN
- L by 4 in OT at RU
- L by 3 at UNL
- L by 9 at IL
- L by 5 vs UW
- L by 8 at M
- L by 6 vs NU
- L by 4 vs PSU
And power conference teams don’t go to those. (I think?)
They'd have to win the last two and then make a run to the Big Ten CG just to get back to .500, and achieve NIT eligibility.
Any loss between now and then would banish them to one of those sub-NIT tournaments.
They'd have to win the last two and then make a run to the Big Ten CG just to get back to .500, and achieve NIT eligibility.Do you actually want this embarrassment to continue?
Any loss between now and then would banish them to one of those sub-NIT tournaments.
Do you actually want this embarrassment to continue?If I were Mean Gene I'd make Holtman do it.
Do you actually want this embarrassment to continue?It was so bad Illinois players decided to do this after the game
It was so bad Illinois players decided to do this after the gameJFC
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/illinois-matthew-mayer-says-he-had-caffeine-poisoning-after-drinking-six-monster-energy-drinks/
Ohio State just out here making me laugh.Just screwing up their draft pick now
Just screwing up their draft pick nowLoL.
LoL.It allows their most morose and self-pitying dance to be more morose and self-pitying.
Seriously, what does winning accomplish now? Ohio State's fans gave up a month ago. We aren't dancing unless we win five games in five days in Chicago so all we are doing is giving our opponents a black mark.
It's 11:19 the morning after a double tier upset night, and no update.LoL.
medina is becoming the Chris Holtsman of updating tiers.
LoL.I've got norovirus. Rub some dirt on it, I need to know when I can start bitching about Rutgers refusing to accomodate a school shooting costing us a double bye!
I do updates after the week's games so tonight or tomorrow morning.
Besides I'm home with multiple sick kids.
Here's my crack at it after the last two days.Which also means if MSU got to play that Minnesota game, they'd move up to #3, and knock Rutgers down to playing Thursday. Nice job you Scarlet cowards. I wish you were worried about AAC positioning, as you deserve
- 15-5/26-5 Purdue
- 12-8/20-11 Iowa
- 12-8/21-10 Indiana
- 12-8/20-11 Rutgers
- 11-8/19-11 Michigan State
- 11-9/20-11 Maryland
- 11-9/17-14 Michigan
- 11-9/20-11 Illinois
- 11-9/20-11 Northwestern
- 10-10/19-12 Penn State
- 9-11/17-13 Wisconsin
- 8-12/15-16 Nebraska
- 5-15/13-18 Ohio State
- 1-18/7-22 Minnesota
I've got norovirus. Rub some dirt on it, I need to know when I can start bitching about Rutgers refusing to accomodate a school shooting costing us a double bye!I was working on this in my head earlier. Assuming:
They have looked better without him lately. Seems to be in a funk.I think that’s true to a degree, but I don’t necessarily think his back up has played worlds better. I think he needs to shake that funk while also having other guys around him play up to the level they can
Woo-hoo!Karma
Ohio State is not the only team to lose to the Gophers.
I've got norovirus. Rub some dirt on it, I need to know when I can start bitching about Rutgers refusing to accomodate a school shooting costing us a double bye!If the projection holds, MSU will get a double-bye.
Just got back for the Kohl center ... what a game, great seats thanks to a buddy. Badger fans were great. Got to hang with former Badger play TJ Schlundt .. mutual friend, great dude, he loves the badgers.Ahh TJ. That guy had an odd high point of his career.
Wisconsin swept Penn State @medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547). It's honestly one of the few sources of joy from this season.Oops, my bad. Teach me to post in the middle of the night half asleep
Also, this season, it irks me deeply. I do not like this thing where I functionally know the team's best ballhandler has ability, but is simply not playing close to as well as I think he is able to.
I stayed up. Wish I had not.I didn’t watch it live. Caught up on some after.
And the 2023 B1G title race is over. Purdue is outright Champion.Well deserved.
There is an interesting question for Wisconsin in terms of who it would potentially want to play. (assuming they don’t barf up the game to the gophers, which might be a grand assumption)I agree with your take (in the rest of your post).
I would rather they not make the NCAA, and then skip the NIT.Why the hell not?
Being very honest here.
I agree with your take (in the rest of your post).This "easy win." What is that?
Wisconsin's potential seeds are:
- #10 whose path is #7, #2
- #11 whose path is #14 (MN), #6, #3
- #12 whose path is #13 (tOSU), #5, #4
As much as I've been annoyed with Ohio State's disaster of a season, IMHO, the Buckeyes have a MUCH higher ceiling than the Gophers.
Ohio State's floor is obviously terrible and if the Buckeyes play near it, Wisconsin would get an easy win playing them. Additionally, that win would help Wisconsin's numbers a LOT more than beating Minnesota. The problem, as I see it from Wisconsin's perspective, is that Ohio State's ceiling is high enough to beat Wisconsin and a first round exit from the BTT would obviously be fatal to Wisconsin's tournament hopes.
Bottom line, I think the best-case-scenario for Wisconsin is to get the #11 seed. Then their path is:
- Minnesota on Wednesday. Winning doesn't really help other than win volume but the win should be nearly automatic.
- The #6 seed on Thursday. This should be a challenging but "winnable" game.
- The #3 seed on Friday. This should be another challenging but "winnable" game and Wisconsin probably wouldn't need to win it.
I would rather they not make the NCAA, and then skip the NIT.think of nit like a non-bcs bowl. no one really wants it, but it's still very useful if for nothing else than more practices for the young guys.
Being very honest here.
Why the hell not?Wy prolong the agony?
think of nit like a non-CFP bowl.FIFY
think of nit like a non-bcs bowl. no one really wants it, but it's still very useful if for nothing else than more practices for the young guys.Most of the "young guys" on the team need to find a home elsewhere. There are two 2nd year guys I particularly have in mind.
Wy prolong the agony?Because making the tournaments good, and winning games is good. (if they want to turn down the NIT, fine with me, though honestly I still like watching Wisconsin basketball so whatever)
think of nit like a non-bcs bowl. no one really wants it, but it's still very useful if for nothing else than more practices for the young guys.The older I get, the more convinced I am that getting the young guys reps is incredibly overrated.
Because making the tournaments good, and winning games is good. (if they want to turn down the NIT, fine with me, though honestly I still like watching Wisconsin basketball so whatever)I do too. But that's not what we're watching.
hah, wait till the football team is running the air raid offensePeople gotta stop calling that. It's only air raid in the looses sense of the word.
I do too. But that's not what we're watching.It's interesting. I've never seen them in the NIT. I don't know how I would respond. They also just might not take the spot if offered.
We're watching a team blow late leads, miss free throws, make bad shot selection, getting shots blocked, missing open guys and getting outrebounded.
That, my friend, is NOT Wisconsin Basketball.
It's interesting. I've never seen them in the NIT. I don't know how I would respond. They also just might not take the spot if offered.Considering how year to year college basketball is now, I'm not sure the benefit is that large anymore. It's not even like football where you have 100+ guys, and maybe you give a kid who might be your starting QB next year his first real reps in a Citrus Bowl. If a guy hasn't played til now, eh. In the pre portal era, there were years where maybe it was better for MSUs development to have an NIT run, but now, not sure there is much benefit.
I looked it up. They've had 19 games where the margin at the end of regulation was 5 or less. That is wild and annoying. (they're 10-9)
Considering how year to year college basketball is now, I'm not sure the benefit is that large anymore. It's not even like football where you have 100+ guys, and maybe you give a kid who might be your starting QB next year his first real reps in a Citrus Bowl. If a guy hasn't played til now, eh. In the pre portal era, there were years where maybe it was better for MSUs development to have an NIT run, but now, not sure there is much benefit.Also, let's be real, football game and practice reps are much, much harder to replicate. You can play a boatload of basketball and do a lot of drills in the offseason, some with the coaches.
Also, let's be real, football game and practice reps are much, much harder to replicate. You can play a boatload of basketball and do a lot of drills in the offseason, some with the coaches.Yeah, I'm all for the players playing more games if they want to play more games. I just think there was a time when with the right roster makeup, there was a pretty obvious benefit to having an NIT run together, which no longer exists
But if the kids feel like doing it, playing together more, I don't see a reason not to. I might put about the same amount of weight on it as the preseason trip to France, but might as well see something. (UW has a roster where I basically wouldn't be sore seeing any non-starter leave. Would really like if no starter left)
I Hoggard gonna go pro? I'd like him to go pro.Hoggard is only a junior, and that's not counting the covid year. He could play two more years if he wants to. He's not an NBA player, I don't think he'd get drafted if there were six rounds. The funny thing is the only player they have ever pursued in the transfer portal was Tyson Walker. And it was because it was clear Watts was never going to be a point guard, and Hoggard was so bad as a freshman, they were desperate for a point guard. Walker has not been able to handle playing the point guard at this level, it has become a two guard almost fully, and Hoggard has taken off ... Except for his clutch free throw shooting
Hoggard is only a junior, and that's not counting the covid year. He could play two more years if he wants to. He's not an NBA player, I don't think he'd get drafted if there were six rounds. The funny thing is the only player they have ever pursued in the transfer portal was Tyson Walker. And it was because it was clear Watts was never going to be a point guard, and Hoggard was so bad as a freshman, they were desperate for a point guard. Walker has not been able to handle playing the point guard at this level, it has become a two guard almost fully, and Hoggard has taken off ... Except for his clutch free throw shootingHe's part of a small army of guys who will probably keep UW out of the tournament. And credit to him, he hit those free throws.
Maryland leading PSU severely diminishes MSU's chances at a double-bye.Kiss of death
There are six teams currently tied with MSU at 11-8. Two of them (IU, M) play each other.
In the final standings MSU will be behind the M/IU winner. They can only get a double-bye if at least three of the other four (UMD, NU, IL, IA) lose.
Thus, if Maryland beats Penn State then MSU needs the other three (NU, IL, IA) to lose
Epic meltdown by CampbellYep.
Illinois is could be a really great team if only the second half counted.I played soccer and tennis in HS (like most jocks do), and I remember one time we were playing our cross city rivals. In HS tennis, you call your own games. So we did our normal warmup, started the match. They scored the first 3 points. 40-love. The guy serving said "you guys ready to start?" His partner spun around, and said, we already did. He said, "no, that was warmup." His partner spun back around to us, and even though we both thought we had started, just said, "no, that was warmup." You could tell the guy wanted to argue, but it was 3 on 1, including his partner. So we got a restart. We wound up winning 6-0 6-0. Granted, for it to be that ugly, maybe we would have won anyway,. but I always felt like that false start changed the entire match.
Bad weekend for coaches who are entrenched in not fouling up 3 in final seconds
Wild one in Bloomington going to OTCould've burnt them if Bufkin didn't develop Chris Webber brain
edit:
Meanwhile, Indiana, up three in the dwindling seconds of OT, wastes no time fouling Michigan before they can set up for a 3.
Wild one in Bloomington going to OTAnd yet they could have fired him for free multiple times when he...check notes...tried to fight an opposing coach. Now they are going to have to pay to fire him simply for being a bad coach in every season except the fake COVID year.
edit:
Meanwhile, Indiana, up three in the dwindling seconds of OT, wastes no time fouling Michigan before they can set up for a 3.
another edit to toss fuel on Juwan's fire:
https://twitter.com/MichiganPodcast/status/1632532883314188288
Medina has been begging Ohio State to give up for weeks, and if they can go ahead and give up in their first game next week, it would be appreciated.LoL.
I’m pretty sure a one and done leaves the Badgers outside of the field. And I think if a win two, and get to 19–14, that is probably in? It’s 18-14 that is up in the air. Obviously they have to beat the buckeyes, but in theory that would be a more valuable win than Minnesota again.
Yeah, I would think they need to win 2. Same for Michigan.Ohio State's path is really easy to figure out, just five steps:
LoL.Still, if they could give up...
I want the AD to give up on the failed HC. I don't want the team to give up.
I think I agree with your assessment of Wisconsin:
- Lose to tOSU, finish 17-14: out.
- Beat tOSU, lose to Iowa, finish 18-14: pray for a soft bubble.
- Beat tOSU and Iowa, lose to Michigan State, finish 19-14: probably in.
- Beat tOSU, Iowa, and MSU, finish 20-14 or better: in.
Ohio State's path is really easy to figure out, just five steps:same as Nebraska every season
- Beat Wisconsin on Wednesday.
- Beat Iowa on Thursday.
- Beat Michigan State on Friday.
- Beat Purdue/Rutgers/Michigan on Saturday.
- Win the B1GCG on Sunday.
LoL.UW is capable of beating all of those teams.
I want the AD to give up on the failed HC. I don't want the team to give up.
I think I agree with your assessment of Wisconsin:
- Lose to tOSU, finish 17-14: out.
- Beat tOSU, lose to Iowa, finish 18-14: pray for a soft bubble.
- Beat tOSU and Iowa, lose to Michigan State, finish 19-14: probably in.
- Beat tOSU, Iowa, and MSU, finish 20-14 or better: in.
LoL.FWIW, Torvik odds in red
I want the AD to give up on the failed HC. I don't want the team to give up.
I think I agree with your assessment of Wisconsin:
- Lose to tOSU, finish 17-14: out. 10.8% chance, #7 team out
- Beat tOSU, lose to Iowa, finish 18-14: pray for a soft bubble. 39.4% chance, #2 team out
- Beat tOSU and Iowa, lose to Michigan State, finish 19-14: probably in. 54.4% chance, Dayton
- Beat tOSU, Iowa, and MSU, finish 20-14 or better: in. 76.6% chance, #10 seed
My first resume only Bracket of the year (2/3 SOR, 1/3 KenPom), for now using SOR to determine regular season champ, and KenPom for tourney champ3/6 Update (now using actual standings to determine regular season conference champ, and excluding sub .500 teams)
End of regular season review of the tier system:So, do you guys like doing this? Do you find it to be informative and worthwhile or am I just basically doing it for myself? Ie, should we continue doing it next year?
So, do you guys like doing this? Do you find it to be informative and worthwhile or am I just basically doing it for myself? Ie, should we continue doing it next year?I love it.
So, do you guys like doing this? Do you find it to be informative and worthwhile or am I just basically doing it for myself? Ie, should we continue doing it next year?yes, really enjoy it.
Just being picky, but Purdue is at -3 because of the home loss to Rutgers. One of the IU losses was expected.
-3 Purdue:
Purdue had one positive upset (the win at MSU) and four negative upsets (the two losses to IU and the losses to NU and UMD). Conversely to Ohio State, Purdue was at the top so their projection was 18-2 meaning that they had 18 opportunities to be upset and only two opportunities to upset someone else.
I love it.
yes, really enjoy it.Ok, thanks. I'll plan to keep it going then.
Just being picky, but Purdue is at -3 because of the home loss to Rutgers. One of the IU losses was expected.You are absolutely right. I just missed that.
I absolutely do enjoy these though. Thank you for all the work you put into them during the season.
So who is COTY? Collins or Painter?Nothing against Painter, but if I had a vote it would be for Collins without even a second thought. Painter has a better team but he has it at a school that has a long history of success in BB. Collins has only a slightly lesser team at a school that has been to the NCAA Tournament a grand combined total of once.
Frankly, I could see an argument for either.
Guessing 1st team Big Ten to be Edey, TJD, Murray (all three of those unanimous), and then the other two likely being Boo and Picket. Any dark horses? Dickinson? J. Young?
@medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) @847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) et all ...I think it will also depend alot upon the type of team that Purdue faces. In particular, the Purdue defense is somewhat designed to give up the intermediate jumper. They have a strong paint defense (Edey) and a decent 3-pt defense, but if you get a player like JHS who can knock down every jumper, it gets into a boat race.
Need some outside perspective on my boilers ... my thoughts are if we can hit >40% on 3s in the tournament we are really tough to beat, first half vs Illinois we hit 50% (6/12) and were up 20 at half, second half (0/6) from 3 and we gave up the lead. To me it is as simple as making shots, I feel we generally get good looks from 3. If we aren't hitting 3s the game will be a dog fight (like Wisconsin game). Last years team wouldn't have been able to win games when missing shots, this years team I think plays good enough D to keep us in those games.
Thoughts?
@medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) @847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) et all ...I hope you Purdue guys don't get mad at me for this but Purdue's long history of underperforming in the NCAA Tournament is a mystery that I can't understand.
Need some outside perspective on my boilers ... my thoughts are if we can hit >40% on 3s in the tournament we are really tough to beat, first half vs Illinois we hit 50% (6/12) and were up 20 at half, second half (0/6) from 3 and we gave up the lead. To me it is as simple as making shots, I feel we generally get good looks from 3. If we aren't hitting 3s the game will be a dog fight (like Wisconsin game). Last years team wouldn't have been able to win games when missing shots, this years team I think plays good enough D to keep us in those games.
Thoughts?
I think it will also depend alot upon the type of team that Purdue faces. In particular, the Purdue defense is somewhat designed to give up the intermediate jumper. They have a strong paint defense (Edey) and a decent 3-pt defense, but if you get a player like JHS who can knock down every jumper, it gets into a boat race.This is a good take. Still, I don't think they need to be aggressive taking 3's. Take whatever is easiest.
So essentially:
If opponent is really good at the jumpers, then Purdue needs their 3-pt shooting to be over 35%
If opponent is mediocre at the jumpers, then Purdue can probably win with sub-30% 3-pt shooting as long as Smith / Loyer can get at least 20-ish points from regular shots.
Fond memory here.Keep going. :72:
(https://i.imgur.com/Rbe21Qd.png)
3/6 Update (now using actual standings to determine regular season conference champ, and excluding sub .500 teams)Update from yesterday's results...
South vs. East; Midwest vs. West
NCAA
SOUTH
- #1 Alabama vs. #16 Texas A&M-CC/SE Missouri State
- #8 Memphis vs. #9 USC
- #5 INDIANA vs. #12 Sam Houston State
- #4 Virginia vs. #13 Furman
- #3 Arizona vs. #14 Kennesaw State
- #6 Florida Atlantic vs. #11 NC State
- #7 Auburn vs. #10 Providence
- #2 Baylor vs. #15 Colgate
MIDWEST
- #1 Houston vs. #16 NC Central/Fairleigh Dickinson
- #8 West Virginia vs. #9 ILLINOIS
- #5 MICHIGAN STATE vs. #12 Drake
- #4 Tennessee vs. #13 Kent State
- #3 Marquette vs. #14 Dayton
- #6 Saint Mary's vs. #11 Oklahoma State
- #7 Iowa State vs. #10 Arkansas
- #2 PURDUE vs. #15 Youngstown State
WEST
- #1 UCLA vs. #16 Grambling
- #8 MARYLAND vs. #9 Boise State
- #5 Kentucky vs. #12 Oral Roberts
- #4 San Diego State vs. #13 Iona
- #3 Gonzaga vs. #14 Montana State
- #6 Texas A&M vs. #11 Nevada/North Texas
- #7 Creighton vs. #10 IOWA
- #2 Texas vs. #15 UC Irvine
EAST
- #1 Kansas vs. #16 South Alabama
- #8 Missouri vs. #9 NORTHWESTERN
- #5 Miami vs. #12 Charleston
- #4 Xavier vs. #13 Yale
- #3 Kansas State vs. #14 UNC Asheville
- #6 Duke vs. #11 PENN STATE/Mississippi State
- #7 TCU vs. #10 Utah State
- #2 Connecticut vs. #15 Vermont
NIT
PISCATAWAY
- #1 RUTGERS vs. #8 Morehead State
- #4 Florida vs. #5 UAB
- #3 Texas Tech vs. #6 Washington State
- #2 Pittsburgh vs. #7 Hofstra
CHAPEL HILL
- #1 North Carolina vs. #8 Howard
- #4 Liberty vs. #5 Villanova
- #3 VCU vs. #6 NEBRASKA
- #2 Vanderbilt vs. #7 Southern Miss
ANN ARBOR
- #1 MICHIGAN vs. #8 Alcorn State
- #4 Seton Hall vs. #5 Bradley
- #3 Utah Valley vs. #6 Toledo
- #2 Oregon vs. #7 Virginia Tech
TEMPE
- #1 Arizona State vs. #8 Eastern Washington
- #4 New Mexico vs. #5 Santa Clara
- #3 Clemson vs. #6 Cincinnati
- #2 WISCONSIN vs. #7 Louisiana
BIG TEN TEAMS
- #2 Purdue
- #5 Indiana - down from #4
- #5 Michigan State - up from #6
- #8 Maryland - down from #6
- #9 Illinois - up from #10
- #9 Northwestern - down from #8
- #10 Iowa - up from #11
- FF11 Penn State - up from NIT #2
- NIT #1 Rutgers - down from FF11
- NIT #1 Michigan
- NIT #2 Wisconsin
- NIT #6 Nebraska - down from NIT #5
I hope you Purdue guys don't get mad at me for this but Purdue's long history of underperforming in the NCAA Tournament is a mystery that I can't understand.I don't know how to explain it but I'm out. As I've mentioned, I have not watched a single minute of Purdue sports since that game.
I don't understand it. I was honestly REALLY happy for Purdue last year when this happened:
Purdue headed to the S16 and for once (as @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) likes to point out) they weren't facing a #1. They weren't even facing a #2. They were in a S16 Pod with a #4, a #8, and a #15. Well we all know how that worked out.
I don't know how to explain it but I'm out. As I've mentioned, I have not watched a single minute of Purdue sports since that game.Great breakdown here ... I look at it that if Painter keeps putting quality teams on the floor and gets enough cracks at it, they will break through one of these years.
However, if you look at Painter's S16 appearances with the exception of that one, it makes some sense:
- 2009: 5 seed. Baby Boilers were sophomores and probably playing over their heads. Came in as a 5 seed, faced 1 seed UConn. 5 losing to a 1 is not a shock.
- 2010: 4 seed. Snakebit by injury. Hummel tore his ACL late in the season against MN. A team that was a likely 1 seed dropped to 4, and was famously picked as an upset darling in Obama's bracket. Faced the 1 seed and eventual champion, Duke, in the S16. But the story of that tournament was the Hummel injury, and even making the S16 was almost gravy after that. Took an amazing offensive performance by Chris Kramer in the A&M game just to get there.
- 2017: 4 seed. A good team but not entirely a good matched set. The best player was Caleb Swanigan, but putting him on the floor meant you had to take Isaac Haas, the biggest matchup nightmare for opposing teams, off the floor. Neither could really play the 4 well enough to be effective together, and then the second-best player on that team (Vince Edwards) wasn't athletic enough to play the 3 if you tried it. Again, faced 1 seed Kansas. Actually were playing well for about 25 minutes, and I think Purdue was within 2, and then Kansas went on a shooting run for the ages and just turned it into a rout.
- 2018: 2 seed. Another team snakebit by injury. Haas was pulled down and broke his elbow in the first round, leading to the now infamous hook & hold rule. That took our biggest matchup advantage off the court and completely changed our offense. #3 seed Texas Tech would have been a difficult matchup even with Haas due to style of play, but without Haas it was just going to be rough.
- 2019: 3 seed. "Upset" (although a 3 over a 2 isn't a huge upset) Tennessee in OT in the S16 to make Painter's first E8. In the game against 1 seed and eventual champ Virginia, Purdue actually led the game as the clock hit 00:00... But the (very improbable) tying shot was in the air, dropped, forcing overtime, and Purdue lost.
So in 3 of 5 tournaments, Purdue was healthy but lost to the 1 seed. In 2 of 5 tournaments, key players were injured either late in the season or in the tournament itself. In one case, they faced the 1 seed (and eventual champ) and predictably lost. In another, they were the 2 seed and lost to the 3 seed, but with the injury, it wasn't a shock. And obviously in none of those cases did Purdue get a broken bracket.
2011 was rough, because Purdue was the 3, I believe #10 FSU had already beaten the #2 in the R32, and Purdue was facing #11 seed VCU rather than #6 Georgetown in the R32. So a broken bracket, at least in the S16, was already shaping up. Well, VCU went on a tear eventually making the F4 themselves.
But last year was the year. Broken bracket. Facing a 15 instead of a 2. And Purdue managed to slip on a HISTORIC (i.e. no 13+ seed had ever won a S16 game) banana peel.
So I'm done. They don't get my energy or attention. I can't take it.
Great breakdown here ... I look at it that if Painter keeps putting quality teams on the floor and gets enough cracks at it, they will break through one of these years.Or they won't.
Or they won't.I agree completely and that was pretty much the point of my post. And I know you knew that because you are probably the only guy on this board as stats immersed as I am.
It may not be statistically likely to flip a coin 20 times and have it come up tails 20 times in a row, but that doesn't mean on the 21st time you're "due".
Between Painter and Keady, they're now 0 for 37. Given the strength of those teams, that's not statistically likely either. Yet here we are.
@medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) you want an explanation? Probably STARZZZZZZZ. Below isThis post shocks me. Purdue always seems to have a HUMONGOUS big that my team struggles (to put it mildly) to deal with. I would have assumed that those guys had lots of stars.
What's the farthest that each seed has gotten in the Big Ten Tourney, under the current bracket format?The B1G website has all of the history. I compiled it just to see what patterns would emerge. There *SHOULD* have been eight tournaments in the 14-team format but the 2020 tournament was cancelled after the Wednesday games due to COVID-19 so instead we have had seven tournaments plus an "extra" 14-11 and an "extra" 12-13 game. That makes 93 games (7*13+2) and 186 appearances. Here are the results from the eight sets of Wednesday games:
Maybe a programs success shouldn't be measured by FFs and NCs, if they played a series like the NBA, the outcomes would surely be different and the "better" teams would prevail more frequently. But it is a 1 and done situation, it takes luck, good match ups and the starts aligning a bit for team to make it.On a single-year basis I agree. It is a one-and-done format and the best team obviously does not always win. There are bad days, their are injuries, etc.
I do not have a good feeling about UW against OSU later today. OSU has been playing better lately. UW has not been.As everyone here knows, I've been really down on the Buckeyes and their HC all year but my phone tells me that the Buckeyes are favored tonight and if I were a gambler I wouldn't touch that. I think that Wisconsin is a better team but only slightly and Ohio State has been VERY up-and-down. Their ups are easily good enough to win this if UW is down.
The #11 seed has a 6-2 advantage over the #14 seed. Frankly, I'm surprised that isn't a bigger differential. It just seems that in a conference with 14 members (this was true even when we only had 11) there is always at least one team that is just a trainwreck so whoever gets to play the worst team *USUALLY* gets almost a freebie.Yup, that's why I was so shocked by the Virginia-UMBC upset. I didn't think that would ever happen. Not because the gap between 1 and 2 is so big, but between 15 and 16. 15s are usually the best team from a really bad conference, or a middling team from a higher rated mid-major, like when a random team wins the MVC, or WCC, or CUSA. But the 16s are usually lower seeded teams from bad conferences. A 3rd seed from the SWAC or whatever.
I swear to God, OSU is gonna win and I’m gonna be dog cussing the rest of the eveningI'm on the fence about watching, honestly.
This seems like a really slippery slopeSaw that elsewhere. Rather shocking.
This seems like a really slippery slopeOne of the spokespeople says it’s bunk?
https://twitter.com/aaron_breitman/status/1633119546323218440?s=20
@medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) fascinating data on the BTT ... I will be referencing that this weekend when I place some wagers on the games. Very insightful.Hope it works out for you but as the financial planners all say, past performance is not a guarantee of future results.
One of the spokespeople says it’s bunk?Either way, Rutgets has to beat Michigan I think to have a chance.
Yup, that's why I was so shocked by the Virginia-UMBC upset. I didn't think that would ever happen. Not because the gap between 1 and 2 is so big, but between 15 and 16. 15s are usually the best team from a really bad conference, or a middling team from a higher rated mid-major, like when a random team wins the MVC, or WCC, or CUSA. But the 16s are usually lower seeded teams from bad conferences. A 3rd seed from the SWAC or whatever.I agree with most of this but my analysis of performance by seed suggests that there actually IS a very big difference between #1 and #2.
I agree with most of this but my analysis of performance by seed suggests that there actually IS a very big difference between #1 and #2.I would be curious to see the average KenPom rating (not ranking) by seed. My guess is the largest gap would be between #15 and #16
In the 37 tournaments since expansion to 64 teams (1985-2022 less 2020) there have been 148 of each seed.
Comparing 1's and 2's, first round:Second round:
- 1's are 147-1, .993 against 16's
- 2's are 138-10, .932 against 15's
S16:
- 1's are 126-21, .857 against 8/9
- 2's are 93-45, .674 against 7/10
E8:
- 1's are 101-25, .802 against 4/5/12/13
- 2's are 67-26, .720 against 3/6/11/14
F4:
- 1's are 61-40, .604 against 2/3/6/7/10/11/14/15
- 2's are 31-36, .463 against 1/4/5/8/9/12/13/16
CG:
- 1's are 38-23, .623 against 1-16
- 2's are 12-19, .387 against 1-16
- 1's are 24-14, .632 against 1-16
- 2's are 5-7, .417 against 1-16
Those are significant gaps and note that the gap gets widest in the F4 where it cannot be explained by quality of opposition.
As see it as the converse of the fact that the very worst team in the B1G, in any given year, is usually REALLY bad.
My working theory is that there usually aren't more than four just EXTREMELY good teams so all of the EXTREMELY good teams are #1 seeds. #2's are flawed teams. They are very good flawed teams but they have discernable flaws.
I think of it this way:
If my team is decent, say 7-10 range and runs into a #2 in the tournament, my team probably has an advantage somewhere. It might only be one thing but, as a fan, I'm basically hoping that my coach can find and exploit the advantage.
If my same team runs into a #1 there probably aren't any advantages for my team and I'm relegated to basically just hoping that they have an off night.
My guess:My thoughts...
Wednesday:Thursday:
- 13 tOSU > UW
- 11 UNL > MN
Friday:
- 8 M > 9 RU
- 13 tOSU > 5 IA
- 7 IL > 10 PSU
- 6 UMD > 11 UNL
Saturday:
- 8 M > 1 PU
- 4 MSU > 13 tOSU
- 7 IL > 2 NU
- 6 UMD > 3 IU
Sunday:
- 4 MSU > 8 M
- 6 UMD > 7 IL
- 4 MSU > 6 UMD
My thoughts...I approve of these thoughts :)
- #12 Wisconsin d. #13 Ohio State
- #11 Nebraska d. #14 Minnesota
- #8 Michigan d. #9 Rutgers
- #12 Wisconsin d. #5 Iowa
- #10 Penn State d. #7 Illinois
- #6 Maryland d. #11 Nebraska
- #1 Purdue d. #8 Michigan
- #4 Michigan State d. #12 Wisconsin
- #10 Penn State d. #2 Northwestern
- #6 Maryland d. #3 Indiana
- #1 Purdue d. #4 Michigan State
- #6 Maryland d. #10 Penn State
- #1 Purdue d. #6 Maryland
Maybe a programs success shouldn't be measured by FFs and NCs, if they played a series like the NBA, the outcomes would surely be different and the "better" teams would prevail more frequently. But it is a 1 and done situation, it takes luck, good match ups and the starts aligning a bit for team to make it.
I guess if you want to be OUT on the Boilers, no problem. But I just view success in a different light I guess and I am very proud of not only the product he puts on the floor but how he goes about putting that product on the floor. Will his more recent success and top 5 ranking consistency help him pull in some more talented players out of high school? That is TBD and how they plug into the program is TBD. He has built a program to be proud of, wins and loses happen, I hate losing as much as the next guy, but there are good players and good coaches on the opposite side of the court trying to win the same game you are playing.
Bear in mind that me being out is a personal thing, not a reflection on Painter or the program.Totally get it, losses used to ruin my attitude for days, I have had to find a way to step back and not get too worked up over the losses. My heart rate gets going in these games, I love to check my apple watch as I hit 145 towards the end of the games sometimes. I try a take it in perspective and focus on the things that really matter to me. I had a similar experience to you a few tournaments back and that was my turning point, thinking I can't let this shit get me down like that. But I have season bball and football tickets and enjoy the games. My son is a freshman down there, so it is great to go down and see him and go to games together.
As fans, we become emotionally invested in the outcome of our teams.
For me growing up in the Chicago suburbs, I would always be considered a "Cubs fan", but in reality I was not really a baseball fan to any reasonable degree, and the Cubs were the "lovable losers", so it's not like I actually had expectations. So I wasn't really emotionally invested to where a loss (even the Bartman ball collapse) actually got to me emotionally.
It's not the case with Purdue. Purdue is a basketball school. Purdue has history. Purdue has put some REALLY good teams on the floor over the years. Painter is a really good coach. There are expectations. And it being my alma mater means that I was heavily emotionally invested in the outcomes. Probably too much so.
The 2019 loss was a gut punch, but I get it. I respect the heck out of UVA and Bennett. They were the 1 seed; Purdue was the 2. It felt like in that one that maybe it finally might be our time--which was the exact same thing UVA fans were thinking. That one hurt, but I walked away thinking we gave our best shot and it just wasn't enough.
2022? No, I walked away after that with a feeling of complete and total disgust. I walked away from that thinking: "Nope. They're never, ever going to do it. I'm not going to let them get my hopes up--and then dash them--ever again."
So I went the other direction. No expectations. No interest. Harden my heart. They can win. They can lose. But if I'm no longer emotionally invested, I can't be hurt.
My guess:
Wednesday:Thursday:
- 13 tOSU > UW
- 11 UNL > MN
Friday:
- 8 M > 9 RU
- 13 tOSU > 5 IA
- 7 IL > 10 PSU
- 6 UMD > 11 UNL
Saturday:
- 8 M > 1 PU
- 4 MSU > 13 tOSU
- 7 IL > 2 NU
- 6 UMD > 3 IU
Sunday:
- 4 MSU > 8 M
- 6 UMD > 7 IL
- 4 MSU > 6 UMD
My thoughts...
- #12 Wisconsin d. #13 Ohio State
- #11 Nebraska d. #14 Minnesota
- #8 Michigan d. #9 Rutgers
- #12 Wisconsin d. #5 Iowa
- #10 Penn State d. #7 Illinois
- #6 Maryland d. #11 Nebraska
- #1 Purdue d. #8 Michigan
- #4 Michigan State d. #12 Wisconsin
- #10 Penn State d. #2 Northwestern
- #6 Maryland d. #3 Indiana
- #1 Purdue d. #4 Michigan State
- #6 Maryland d. #10 Penn State
- #1 Purdue d. #6 Maryland
My thoughts...Nailed it
- #12 Wisconsin d. #13 Ohio State
- #11 Nebraska d. #14 Minnesota
Well, that's over and done with. An ignoble end to an ignoble season.It feels so good to be done.
Hulu's BTN feed died during the game (it kept talking about Robbie Hummel's 1K race on a loop), but apparently the Bucks survived a big comeback in what sounds like a complete reversal of their earlier game.Hulu's everything feed died last night. I was watching Cooking. Dead. Switch to HGTV. Dead.
Is the Rutgers/Michigan game at noon today an NCAA elimination game?Probably.
Probably.That is what I'm thinking.
Looks like Michigan is going down. Boo hoo.I think Rutgers' bid is now secure.
Nailed itLoL, I'm not doing well either.
I think Rutgers' bid is now secure.And Michigan is out.
that's just crazy talk
- I also had Michigan knocking off Purdue tomorrow so I've now lost that one as well.
OSU made it farther than the Wolverines.TTUN only made 4 field goals in the 2nd half. That's like OSU level of incompetence there.
Ohio State gets a third shot at MSU and Purdue gets a chance to avenge what was:If MSU brings their A game, they should win. But OSU has been playing better of late, I think it will be close.
- Their first loss of the season,
- Their only loss in their first 23 games this year,
- One of only two home losses all year.
The lower seed is 4-05-0, though there were times I almost negatively replied 4-1 when we could not hold on to the ball or grab a rebound.
If MSU brings their A game, they should win. But OSU has been playing better of late, I think it will be close.I think Ohio State will be strong out of the gate but fatigue will be a bigger factor as the game drags on and MSU pulls away.
No Way, Rutgers beats Purdue.I definitely think it is unlikely but the team playing on their second day is typically strong and:
The lower seed is 4-0
5-0So there is that.
Chris Holtman gonna get an extension.Why do you do this to me?
:72:
Why do you do this to me?
I would actually take Holtman over Gard right now.I would take that trade.
I would actually take Holtman over Gard right now./rolls eyes
Greg Gard is great at identifying talent for other programs. He's not a closer. Example:
He was in on basically all of these kids before anyone else and led for all of them early on.
The only times Bo got to the Elite 8 or further was when he had a 5* player on the floor. Both of those were in-state, and now UW is not keeping those kids home anymore.This is a little beside the point, but are we giving the 2005 team credit for having Brian Butch as a low usage bench player?
There's been a long-standing joke at Hammer & Rails that Izzo's recruiting strategy is to wait around and look at who Painter is going after early, and then just show up and convince them to come to MSU.I feel like this speaks to a certain reality that most everyone thinks their coach should be getting more talent. And the only ones we don’t feel that way about are the ones who aren’t doing enough with it.
UW needs talent. UW is not getting talent. Guys like Happ are rare. Wahl and Crowl are not developing like Happ did.I mean, the lottery pick was the difference last season between being a solid team and winning the conference. And one could also argue his absence is one of the big problems this season.
A lottery pick was the difference last season, and it's rare for a 3* to develop into one. Granted, he was criminally underrated and wanted by many other schools. He was also hunting for bigger offers.
And don't forget - UW had to take his brother to get him.
This is a little beside the point, but are we giving the 2005 team credit for having Brian Butch as a low usage bench player?He was not used a ton because he had mono, but he was on the floor.
I feel like this speaks to a certain reality that most everyone thinks their coach should be getting more talent. And the only ones we don’t feel that way about are the ones who aren’t doing enough with it.Certainly. And I'm not going to lie, the joke came out of a level of butthurt of always feeling like Purdue and MSU were battling for the same recruits--and Purdue wasn't winning a lot of those. It's bolstered by the [correct IMHO] belief that Painter has an excellent eye for talent, and guys he's on early typically end up SOMEWHERE on a P5 roster.
I’m sure some Michigan State fans don’t think Tom is an all-time closer because of some recruits that he missed somewhere along the way.
In reality, MSU is the cream of the crop in the conferenceThis raises a fun off-season topic.
The topic I refer to is, who IS the B1G's second best program?Purdue
There is a reason OSU takes Sensabaugh off the court when they need a stop. He's the worst defender in their rotation. So I would expect them to defend better but score a lot less without him. But for MSU to be on pace for 47 points is a special level of yuck, and OSU's offense seems fine enoughText I just sent my wife regarding weekend plans:
If MSU was just missing open shots, I might agree. But OSU is defending better, and hitting their jumpers. And it's not like OSU spurted out and held it. It was essentially even for the first 12 or so minutes, and OSU built out the lead in the final 8 minutesWell, some perspective, first day teams against second+ day opponents in this tournament so far:
Malik Hall needs to find a seat for the rest of the afternoonAnd with him on the bench cut it from 13 to 6. Put him back in, he gets called for a moving screen, and then air balls a wide open 3, right back up to 11
What's the farthest that each seed has gotten in the Big Ten Tourney, under the current bracket format?
According to ESPN, Ohio State has a 95%+ chance to become the first team to EVER play on both Wednesday and Saturday in the same Big Ten Basketball Tournament.Well you wanted accomplishments
According to ESPN, Ohio State has a 95%+ chance to become the first team to EVER play on both Wednesday and Saturday in the same Big Ten Basketball Tournament.And it is final, Ohio State officially is the first team ever to play on both Wednesday and Saturday in the B1G Tournament.
And it is final, Ohio State officially is the first team ever to play on both Wednesday and Saturday in the B1G Tournament.Hang the banner and draw up the extension!
Gene Smith is out stumping for an NIT bid. Apparently you don't need a winning record?
let's just have the Bucks win two more and not worry about having to campaign for anything.I'd be a LOT more optimistic about our chances if Rutgers had knocked off Purdue.
I'm rooting for an OSU/PSU final.yup
Gene Smith is out stumping for an NIT bid. Apparently you don't need a winning record?Neither does Congress
OSU has got run out of gas at some point. Today OSU will be playing its 4th day in a row, while Purdue will be playing just it's 2nd day in a row.I agree. I expected it to happen yesterday against Michigan State.
I'm rooting for an OSU/PSU final.For obvious reasons I am too.
Gene Smith is out stumping for an NIT bid. Apparently you don't need a winning record?Changed it it 2017
Trying to run through some thoughts about the functionally over UW season (for my catharsis).I think Gard will need to have some tough conversations.
This team was supposed to be one that would have to grind its way to the tournament. It returned three starters, only added two of the three transfers it wanted. The hope, I think, was to use those three as crutches, have them play well enough to lead the team to the dance with some support.
That kind of happened in the first half, even if they were playing worse than their record. Then in the second half, they just couldn't close one too many times. It's interesting because this is probably one of the worst years UW has had in terms of top guys playing like top guys, and it's worth digging a little more into things player-by-player.
Tyler Wahl - A taller, non-shooting power forward, he was the top returning scorer. I think the idea was that he'd be a second or third option as Crowl and Hepburn stepped up, but they did not. It also didn't help that Wahl, whose whole deal is flipping up shots in the post, just kept rolling shots off the rim (and then getting frustrated and forcing things).
So you ended up with a high-usage guy whose efficiency cratered. He was also the backup center and spent half the year dribbling off screens at the end of the clock. Not ideal.
Chucky Hepburn - I thought he'd grow into a traditional UW point guard. If he wasn't the best shot creator this year, I assumed he'd at least be efficient. He was neither. He turned in one of the worst numerical efficiency seasons at the position in the past two decades, despite good 3-point shooting, low turnovers and above assist number. Simply put, the easiest way this team could be dancing was him, I think the most talented player, playing better, which I think he can and should next year.
Steven Crowl - His post game, rebounding and overall play came together somewhat nicely, even with some spacing issues. But his shooting was a big, big problem. Last year, he was a so-so 32 percent from 3 and a nice 80 percent from the line. That fell to 28 from 3 and 60 from the line. This meant UW was a considerably worse spacing team, he was a much worse screening option and you were more gun-shy about him going all out in the post. He was probably UW's most effective player, but but one metric was the worst "best" player on a UW team as far back as the stat goes (and realistically back to the Dick Bennett era)
Max Klesmit - A mid-major (low-major?) transfer, he showed up and was a pretty good shooting guard. Good enough defender, good shooter, ok secondary ball-handler, did the job. Efficiency was a bit low, I think owing to somewhat low free-throw shooting
(both guards shooting worse than 70 percent, oy). Also a bit streaky. Still, a nice No. 4 guy.
Connor Essegian - Showed up as a lightly-regarded freshman, had moments when he was a flat-out offensive flamethrower. Great release, good shooter, can shoot off platform. He's a true freshman, and 90 percent of the shots he takes seem fine. It a comically bad defender, and tailed off a bit late, which would be less impactful if this team wasn't a hair from making the tournament. I'm happy he's in Madison and looking forward to him loading up on local NIL when Kentucky tries to tamper.
Jordan Davis - At times, he was a nice wing defender and also popped as a cutter. Overall, a bit spacey and very inconsistent. Credit to him for not turning it over and making a few plays, but you can't shoot 32 percent from 3, not get to the line and not hit free throws. He lost a starting spot, and while I'd like him to stick around, I wouldn't be surprised if he left. (He also made a defensive mistake that contributed to a very lucky shot in a loss, but it's also worth noting, the shot was stupid lucky)
Carter Gilmore - A former walk-on who has been thrust into a bad space. He's a really nice, switchy defensive forward who knows what he's doing, which means another big has to hit a certain floor before he plays. It also means Gilmore is a 6-7 former walk-on defending Big Ten players who has yet to translate apparent practice shooting skill into game skill. Basically, he'd be a great 9th man, good enough 8th man, but was the 7th man and first big off the bench. I think he probably sticks around, but if he wanted to go be a good Horizon League guy, couldn't blame him.
Kamari McGee - A UW-Green Bay transfer, they got him because they hoped he could be a competent backup point guard. For most of the year he wasn't, late in the year, he was OK enough. He shot 24 percent from 3 and generally wasn't good. I think he could grow into a nice backup, but I could also see him leaving for a better opportunity and would not blame him.
Isaac Lindsey - A walk-on (who got a one-year scholarship) and in essence mostly played because McGee couldn't hold down the job. Kid has a lot of gunner in him, but probably too small and slight to see real minutes. Nice guy to have in the back pocket, even if him playing means issues in the front pocket. Could be a nice Mid-Major guard if he wants.
Markus Ilver - Skinny stretch 4 who has some offensive skill. Simply wasn't consistent enough in shooting to make up for being to skinny and inexperienced on defense. Would be unsurprised if he leaves.
Chris Hodges - Thick, squat center type who flat out wasn't ready and was a foul machine when he played. I think there's some promise there, but is a prime transfer candidate. Simply put, this team had no backup center, and he played 29 minutes (the lack of blowouts didn't help)
Other than them, Jahcobi Neath played a bit but was again mostly hurt. Guessing he filters off the roster.
Assuming Wahl is back, Neath departs for health reasons and Lindsey comes off scholarship, they're at 13 scholarships. Early rumors are they expect to add two transfers, most likely one big and one taller wing. So that means at least two departures. I'd put my bet on more.
I think Gard will need to have some tough conversations.Hmmm.
Gilmore, Lindsey, Ilver and Hodges need to move on, or come off scholarship. Gilmore is also year-to-year, correct?
Neath, if healthy, can stay, right?
I think UW is primed to land some really nice transfers. The Varsity Collective is flush with cash now, which will help.This just vibes, or inside info on names?
This just vibes, or inside info on names?No inside info, I can think of a few. I wouldn't mind if Kobe Johnson wanted to come home.
In basketball, I'm always gun-shy about expecting too much.
I'm proud how his Buckeye team finished their season.At the very least, not much give up. (God I wish they'd given up)
I don't know where/how/why OSU lost 14/15 games mid season. But to finish 7-2 with he season basically over tells me there is hope for improvement.
I'm proud how his Buckeye team finished their season.It was 5-2 not 7-2. The bigger issue, as you pointed out, was that they won their first game in January and their last game in February but went 1-14 between those.
I don't know where/how/why OSU lost 14/15 games mid season. But to finish 7-2 with he season basically over tells me there is hope for improvement.
If tomorrow was IU v Purdue, I'd watch it since it isnt i won't watch a dribble of PSU v Purdue. Am I alone in this?I feel the same either way. I think pre-realignment, certain conference tournaments, specifically the ACC and Big East, had some oomph behind them. Now, it's fun to watch good basketball, but it largely no more important than a regular season game. The one bid league tourneys are way more fun to watch. I will say Indiana-Purdue would be fun as a rivalry. OSU-either would be fun because one team was playing for their tourney lives. But largely this is what it is. Did anyone care about Purdue-Iowa last year? I'll watch it, what else is there, but it's on par with the P5 conference tourneys in general. And I say that as someone who used to put Championship Week on only a half tier behind the NCAA tourney
Purdue has literally almost the easiest possible path to a B1G Tournament Championship:We know how well they take advantage of broken brackets...
- Friday they got #9 Rutgers instead of #8 Michigan
- Saturday they got #13 Ohio State instead of #4 MSU, #5 Iowa, or #12 Wisconsin.
- Sunday they get #10 Penn State avoiding #2, #3, #6, and #7.
We know how well they take advantage of broken brackets...I'm not sure that it matters and to the extent that it does I think Purdue would have been better off playing a tougher path because beating M, MSU, and IU would have buttressed their argument for a #1 seed a lot more than beating RU, tOSU, and PSU.
If tomorrow was IU v Purdue, I'd watch it since it isnt i won't watch a dribble of PSU v Purdue. Am I alone in this?
Also no disrespect to Big Ten baseball, but the Big Ten sports season is both starting and ending with Penn State-PurdueI'll be watching rooting for PSU (underdog) since the Husker baseball game isn't televised
wouldn't be that much $$$ w/o LIVMake it a bucket list item.
I do enjoy that tournament and would love the play that track some fine day
The Players has been fun, only to see how much $$$ these guys go up and down. Poor Montgomery, he basically ceded $1million in about ten minutes time.This is what LIV takes away. That guy played well for 3 rounds, and got in the final group on Sunday, and is choking. Guaranteed purses takes that pressure away. Golf is hard, golf under pressure is impossible. The guys who can do it, are amazing. Hopefully what LIV did do is consolidate which tournaments the guys play in. Now you have elevated events and non elevated events. Before, you get a random scattering of certain high ranking players in all non majors. This ideally, puts all high-ranking players in certain events, and the other events are purely for golf nuts. But if you like watching guys get exemptions, that makes it supremely entertaining
huge purse today. Top 5 clear a mil alone. Davis heading that direction too.
Badgers will take an NIT bid, so I guess a bit more basketball for this team.Credit to Juwan. Nobody is going to go to the NIT game. Guys might opt out. But the kids who may never play basketball again, deserve a chance to play every game they can. UNC declining the bid is embarrassing
It was 5-2 not 7-2. The bigger issue, as you pointed out, was that they won their first game in January and their last game in February but went 1-14 between those.Your right, they went 5-2 in their last 7 is what I wanted to say; but reasons, I typed something different than I was thinking.
Badgers will take an NIT bid, so I guess a bit more basketball for this team.From Tyler Wahl's mom. Looks like he's done.
I'm confused as to why MSU got Columbus instead of the Hoosiers. Indiana has to travel to Albany to play Kent and IU fans who make that trip will pass by Kent on the way.MSU didn't "get" it, Marquette got it. MSU was just a beneficiary. It's tough to work around that entirely. You would have to flip MSU to a different region, and 2 of the other 3 regions have a different Big Ten team in the 7-10 game. I guess you could flip MSU and Missouri
MSU didn't "get" it, Marquette got it. MSU was just a beneficiary. It's tough to work around that entirely. You would have to flip MSU to a different region, and 2 of the other 3 regions have a different Big Ten team in the 7-10 game. I guess you could flip MSU and MissouriMakes sense.
The Auburn one is a little bit of both. Yes, they are in their home state. But Alabama is there too, and I would bet even in a Houston-Auburn game, those Bama fans will not be rooting for an upset
Way to silence the haters rutgerShining example of why UNC said “hard pass.”
Shining example of why UNC said “hard pass.”Then just cancel the NIT, and all non CFP bowls
It looks like Pitt is wearing some weird Purdue knockoff uniforms. The giant P on the front is off putting, too.Even Purdue's worst aren't that bad. You make it back for the first time since going back to the traditional colors and script Pitt, and that's what you come out in?
Even Purdue's worst aren't that bad. You make it back for the first time since going back to the traditional colors and script Pitt, and that's what you come out in?Pitt does have a fun point guard at least.
Also, my god, those are two very undeserving basketball teams. Mississippi State has no talent, and Pitt might as well not have a coach
Pitt does have a fun point guard at least.I did not get to watch it. How come Wahl only played 17 minutes? Foul trouble (4)? Was he on the court at the end?
Lord I’m still mad UW couldn’t have won 1-2 more games and knocked one of them out.
Also, watching NIT basketball is a strange experience.
Even Purdue's worst aren't that bad. You make it back for the first time since going back to the traditional colors and script Pitt, and that's what you come out in?And to beat home that point, there’s this.
Also, my god, those are two very undeserving basketball teams. Mississippi State has no talent, and Pitt might as well not have a coach
I did not get to watch it. How come Wahl only played 17 minutes? Foul trouble (4)? Was he on the court at the end?Foul trouble and tweaked a knee.
And to beat home that point, there’s this.Pshhh, that’s not even Pitt’s ugliest NCAA tournament game of the past decade.
https://twitter.com/OptaSTATS/status/1635860646922158082?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1635860646922158082%7Ctwgr%5E6be05a6c14f4898d2af30e4d6a676b5a63b035ed%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2F247sports.com%2Fcollege%2Fwest-virginia%2Fboard%2Fbasketball-103746%2F
My usual annual complaint about the NCAA tournament sites:
This year's eight first and second round sites are:
EST:CST:
- Albany, NY
- Greensboro, NC
- Orlando, FL
- Columbus, OH
MST:
- Birmingham, AL
- Des Moines, IA
PST:
- Denver, CO
- Sacramento, CA
MSU didn't "get" it, Marquette got it. MSU was just a beneficiary. It's tough to work around that entirely. You would have to flip MSU to a different region, and 2 of the other 3 regions have a different Big Ten team in the 7-10 game. I guess you could flip MSU and MissouriThis is a better way to look at it. As an aside, the change to the pod system a few years ago was a HUMONGOUS improvement. Here are the pods:
The Auburn one is a little bit of both. Yes, they are in their home state. But Alabama is there too, and I would bet even in a Houston-Auburn game, those Bama fans will not be rooting for an upset
Foul trouble and tweaked a knee.Good to Crowl had a good night.
Have I ever bitched about the sterile ncaa floors ..Not sure if anyone has brought it up here, but my buddies and I have lamented the same. I liked noticing which games were being played on the same courts. Not sure why they went away from it
~???
So unnecessary. Could be games played in Poland for all I know.
Not sure if anyone has brought it up here, but my buddies and I have lamented the same. I liked noticing which games were being played on the same courts. Not sure why they went away from itCentral command in control!!
1-0, go B1G!😢
First upset, #4 Virginia goes down.https://twitter.com/BenRossTweets/status/1636454223633338368?t=BQQ4pyd87seFEioqliV7bQ&s=19
https://twitter.com/BenRossTweets/status/1636454223633338368?t=BQQ4pyd87seFEioqliV7bQ&s=19Feast or famine.
#2 Arizona goes down.
Andrew Funk is feeling it.5-6 from 3... his only miss got wedged between the glass and the rim
Seems like the Skyy Clark issue was an issue. I don't know when, the transfer portal needs to go away. All of this was just to try and appease players not to unionize or demand payments from the school. Now that it's clear that there is plenty of money in NIL, we need to close the portal, and go back to the old eligibility rules, with no waivers. I am totally fine with keeping completely unregulated NIL. Do not restrict athletes earning capacity at all. But mandating a one-year red shirt to transfer, is no different than saying you can't play for 8 years.To be clear, you don’t mean the portal as much as the free transfer thing.
https://twitter.com/DPiper247/status/1636528324267606016?t=VAqB6QL8jZfy6eHe5hznAg&s=19
Andrew Funk is feeling it.That’s a kid I’m so mad UW didn’t get after harder.
Seems like the Skyy Clark issue was an issue. I don't know when, the transfer portal needs to go away. All of this was just to try and appease players not to unionize or demand payments from the school. Now that it's clear that there is plenty of money in NIL, we need to close the portal, and go back to the old eligibility rules, with no waivers. I am totally fine with keeping completely unregulated NIL. Do not restrict athletes earning capacity at all. But mandating a one-year red shirt to transfer, is no different than saying you can't play for 8 years.I believe Illinois has another kid coming in next year that is full of drama also, he is from Lafayette and decommitted from Purdue to go to Illinois and I am fine with it.
https://twitter.com/DPiper247/status/1636528324267606016?t=VAqB6QL8jZfy6eHe5hznAg&s=19
Some kid from Northwestern had a dipsy doo, behind his back, floater in the first half that was so pretty.auburn is pure emotion. when feeling it, they can be deadly. but they can, and often have this season, fallen to it as well. i don't expect a close game vs houston. they'll either be sky high and win convincingly, or fall flat and get drummed.
Auburn starting to run away from Iowa and, yeah, they are feeding off the crowd in Birmingham.
Winning percentage by seed in second round games:this doesnt make sense
- .857 #1 seeds, 126-21
- .674 #2 seeds, 93-45
- .611 #3 seeds, 77-49
- .598 #4 seeds 70-47
- .526 #5 seeds 50-45
- .473 #6 seeds 43-48
- .456 #11 seeds 26-31
- .415 #12 seeds 22-31
- .414 #10 seeds 24-34
- .311 #7 seeds 28-62
- .300 #15 seeds 3-7
- .211 #8 seeds 15-56
- .194 #13 seeds 6-25
- .091 #9 seeds 7-70
- .091 #14 seeds 2-20
- .000 #16 seeds 0-1
To be clear, you don’t mean the portal as much as the free transfer thing.Correct. Keep the portal, reinstate the redshirt year
I tend to agree, the speed bump thing is good. I care less about Skyy Clark. Seems like the kid had some issues. Been a just wild couple of years for Illinois on the portal front.
this doesnt make senseI've jumped on to second round games here so no, they don't all play the same number because only the first round winners get a chance to play a second round game.
doesnt the number 1 seed play the 16th seed and so on
here the number 1 seed has played a total of 258 games but the number 16 has played only 1 time
seems like they should be roughly the same
this doesnt make senseYes, that was for 2nd round games, or the round of 32. Since the #16 seed has only made it to the 2nd round once, they are only 0-1 in 2nd round games.
doesnt the number 1 seed play the 16th seed and so on
here the number 1 seed has played a total of 258 games but the number 16 has played only 1 time
seems like they should be roughly the same
If USC was even mildly competent on offense, this game would be tiedHoggard really does have an issue in the last 2 minutes making free throws
This is the exact same thing as the Iowa game. 6 straight empty trips, including 3 straight missed front ends, but USC just keeps turning it over
Big time. Cost us 2 games at least this season, maybe 3(?), and certainly made a couple others closerGood win, I had your boys -2.5
Big time. Cost us 2 games at least this season, maybe 3(?), and certainly made a couple others closerWon y’all at least one.
I also saw the TV slots are exactly the same for Saturday and Sunday. I feel like those Sunday tip times get worse every year. The only bad thing about moving games off CBS, is no longer needing to finish all of the Sunday games before 60 Minutes. Only two games start before 5:00, and four of them start after 7:00. Can't wait for 9:30 Sunday night tipAgree. They keep pushing the Sunday tips later every year.
Good win, I had your boys -2.5This and Northwestern are the key first round wins for our league.
I also saw the TV slots are exactly the same for Saturday and Sunday. I feel like those Sunday tip times get worse every year. The only bad thing about moving games off CBS, is no longer needing to finish all of the Sunday games before 60 Minutes. Only two games start before 5:00, and four of them start after 7:00. Can't wait for 9:30 Sunday night tipFor a cord-cutter like me I'd add not being able to watch.
For a cord-cutter like me I'd add not being able to watch.youtube TV seems to have all the games
I would think they could split it in half.
Somebody needs to burn this game film of Iowa St-Pitt and bury the ashes. Horrible.Iowa State was so bad they got blown out by a wholly mediocre Pitt effort. I think Iowa State today was the worst P5 performance I have ever seen in the tourney.
the Huskers would have rolled Iowa StateI've said I wish they would do "classic" conference tournaments as preseason tournaments. Maui and Atlantis are nice, but if they did a Big 8, or SWC, or pre-expansion ACC, or old Big East conference tournaments. I would LOVE that
Iowa State was so bad they got blown out by a wholly mediocre Pitt effort. I think Iowa State today was the worst P5 performance I have ever seen in the tourney.I agree somewhat on the NET. It isn’t perfect and spits out some weird rankings sometimes. That said, I find the WVU take strange. They lost an 8-9 game by 2 and led for large chunks of the game. I didn’t see anything from that performance that screamed “not Tournament worthy.”
This has also convinced me the NETs blind spot is bad teams who get good numbers while doing poorly in a good conference. Neither WVU or ISU looked like a tournament team
Nothing like seeing your champion trail a 16 seed at the half.Yeah, not a good look and it doesn't even fit with Purdue's usual postseason struggles. For all the talk about that Purdue has actually done about as well as expected in the first weekend, their struggles have been in the second weekend.
Nothing like seeing your champion trail a 16 seed at the half.And just to be clear I meant my bracket champion, not poking fun at you Big Tenners. 😉
And just to be clear I meant my bracket champion, not poking fun at you Big Tenners. 😉FWIW, if you picked Purdue to win it all, your bracket was busted long before tipoff.
On another note, the color analyst for this game is unbearable.I said pregame that my heart went out to Purdue fans for dealing with this Columbus crew
Yeah, not a good look and it doesn't even fit with Purdue's usual postseason struggles. For all the talk about that Purdue has actually done about as well as expected in the first weekend, their struggles have been in the second weekend.Nevermind
To be honest, I didn't think this was gonna happen. What's the historic value in being the second ever #1 to lose to a #16?And honestly, it was to a team that didn’t even win its conference tournament. FDU got in on a technicality. It came into the tournament with a NET of 306.
Thanks Purdue,It has brought me, my dad, and my son together knowing that we all watch Arizona and Purdue underperform in the tournament. It's the only thing that hasn't changed for 40 years.
Signed,
Arizona - no longer the tournament’s biggest no-show
The prosecution rests, your honor.But it is not like this was a talent deficiency. This was just an embarrassingly bad performance.
But it is not like this was a talent deficiency. This was just an embarrassingly bad performance.I mean, it kind of is. Purdue has Edey, who is a great college player and maybe a second round NBA draft pick. And other than that, not a whole lot.
But it is not like this was a talent deficiency. This was just an embarrassingly bad performance.That's been the Purdue issue in March for 40 years.
Painful, how you only score 58 against them is just beyond me. I am speechless.Adding to the pile of 100s which have won a Tournament game before Nebraska. Montana State with a chance to add to the list tonight.
These commentators keep talking about how we couldn't stay with them on defense, I don't see our D as the problem gave up 63 points on 39% shooting. No reason we don't score a minimum of 75 on these guys, our problem was just bricking wide open 3s all night long.Edey should have scored 50
I mean, it kind of is. Purdue has Edey, who is a great college player and maybe a second round NBA draft pick. And other than that, not a whole lot.Are you actually arguing that Fairlane Dickinson (sp?) Is more talented than Purdue?
FDU didn't even win their conference. They added a bunch of division 2 schools just to maintain. And half their conference was ineligible, because you have to be division 1 for like 4 years to be eligible. I think they finished in 4th, and then lost in their conference championship?I think you have to call them the worst team to ever win a game. They might not even be the worst team in this tournament.
This is a loss that literally cannot ever be matched in the NCAA tournament. FDU has to be the worst team to ever make it
I think you have to call them the worst team to ever win a game. They might not even be the worst team in this tournament.I believe, prior to this win FDU was still ranked behind them in KenPom. The NEC is essentially a D2 conference, and FDU didn't even win it. Even if not, it was close.
Texas Southern finished up eighth in the SWAC, six games below .500, and was in the field this year
I believe, prior to this win FDU was still ranked behind them in KenPom. The NEC is essentially a D2 conference, and FDU didn't even win it. Even if not, it was close.Man, that's impressive as hell.
EDIT; Looked it up, going into the tournament Texas Southern was #285, FDU was #312. I'd be curious if any team was ranked as low as #312 in KenPom and got a bid
Man, that's impressive as hell.Texas Southern usually schedules their ass off, so I'm guessing that held their ranking off. IIRC there was one year they started 2-9, after playing 9 P5 road games
Honestly more impressive that a team that went 7-11 in the SWAC and was at 285.
This has also convinced me the NETs blind spot is bad teams who get good numbers while doing poorly in a good conference. Neither WVU or ISU looked like a tournament teamI'd be interested if there was some math on this. I usually feel like taking many patterns from the tournament is just chasing one's tail. (Also, are you talking the NET rankings themselves, or the way we rank NET )
Texas Southern usually schedules their ass off, so I'm guessing that held their ranking off. IIRC there was one year they started 2-9, after playing 9 P5 road gamesThis year they had the #4 non-con SOS
I'd be interested if there was some math on this. I usually feel like taking many patterns from the tournament is just chasing one's tail. (Also, are you talking the NET rankings themselves, or the way we rank NET )Yeah, taking NCAA tournament sample size is useless. It's probably mostly anecdotal, but it certainly seems like the NET is too heavily reliant on predictive metrics, because once you get into conference play in the Big Ten or Big XII the past couple years, so long as you don't get blown out, your spot is fairly safe.
Kent St. with a cute little haircut bond.I initially had Kent State here, but once Michigan beat the best team in the MAC (Toledo), I figured Indiana was solid.
The way trains are derailing he prolly hasn't given it much thoughtIs that an unintended Purdue dig?
spring break will give you that.No, commuter schools will give you that. MSU has burned plenty of couches for tourney wins during spring break
FAU v FDU 2nd round. heh.Is that the smallest combined student population of a second round matchup ever?
No, commuter schools will give you that. MSU has burned plenty of couches for tourney wins during spring breakcommuter schools with enrollment of 2,400.
Is that the smallest combined student population of a second round matchup ever?I'm gonna go with Tulsa v Duke in whatever year it was. Tulsa is the tiniest in football. That's about a 12,000 -13k student enrollment game. FAU is north of 30k.
Is that the smallest combined student population of a second round matchup ever?As Marq said, underrating how big some of those random commuter schools get.
Penny Hardaway showing why I think he’ll always accumulate talent but never win big with it. His bench was chaos the last 5 minutes. Had two players that had to be separated during a timeout. The last 30 seconds he wanted to make a substitution but his player didn’t properly check in so he couldn’t enter the game. Then at the end when Memphis lost he chucks a water bottle across the court.So was Xavier. But Sean Miller has a very low postseason reputation too. It's clearly not all talent acquisition
He also had a kid who followed his coach’s example by picking up a stupid, unnecessary technical earlier in the second half that gave FAU two free points that made a difference in a one point win.
I'm gonna go with Tulsa v Duke in whatever year it was. Tulsa is the tiniest in football. That's about a 12,000 -13k student enrollment game. FAU is north of 30k.Ah, didn't realize that.
Jeff Capel has more tourney wins this year than Jamie Dixon is going to have in his whole TCU tenureUnless TCU stages a major comeback. Then they are tied.
I'm gonna go with Tulsa v Duke in whatever year it was. Tulsa is the tiniest in football. That's about a 12,000 -13k student enrollment game. FAU is north of 30k.Fun fact: Baylor-Creighton have less combined enrollment than FAU.
Penny Hardaway showing why I think he’ll always accumulate talent but never win big with it. His bench was chaos the last 5 minutes. Had two players that had to be separated during a timeout. The last 30 seconds he wanted to make a substitution but his player didn’t properly check in so he couldn’t enter the game. Then at the end when Memphis lost he chucks a water bottle across the court.I don't quite know what to make of Penny because his team got better with less talent.
He also had a kid who followed his coach’s example by picking up a stupid, unnecessary technical earlier in the second half that gave FAU two free points that made a difference in a one point win.
Ah, didn't realize that.FYI...
Lets go lowest number of season ticket holders?
For tournament purposes though, being incredibly deep sticks us in a lot of bad matchupsWay to be objective, lol.
Are you actually arguing that Fairlane Dickinson (sp?) Is more talented than Purdue?Definitely not. I'm saying Purdue doesn't have the talent of your typical 1 seed. Their starting point guard was a freshman who Purdue got over Montana and Appalachian State.
Looking at our league's situation and it is not good.1. We can be proud that one of our teams created a busted bracket.
None of our teams got a busted bracket, none.
Thus, in the second round we have:I honestly believe, even after Purdue's loss that ours is s strong league. For tournament purposes though, being incredibly deep sticks us in a lot of bad matchups
- #4 IU -1.5 vs #5 Miami
- #7 MSU +3 VS #2 Marquette
- #10 Penn State +5.5 vs #2 Texas
- #7 Northwestern +8 vs #2 UCLA
- #8 Maryland +8.5 vs #1 Bama
Way to be objective, lol.I think saying we are deep, without strength at the top hurts. In 2005, the Big Ten only got 3 teams into the tourney, but all three made it to the Elite 8. Is that better?
I think saying we are deep, without strength at the top hurts. In 2005, the Big Ten only got 3 teams into the tourney, but all three made it to the Elite 8. Is that better?For me, yes.
Way to be objective, lol.
1. We can be proud that one of our teams created a busted bracket.Indiana, our #4 seed won and, more impressively, the six teams we had in coin-flip type 50/50 games (7-10 seeds) went 4-2.
2. The B1G sucks.
On the bright side, I at least have one bracket in the top ten in the annual pool @jhetfield99 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1625) puts together... 13/16 of the S16 round, 7/8 of the E8, and 4/4 of the F4 picks still alive.
Had FAU beating Purdue in the R32 of that bracket. So I've got that going for me. Which is nice.
As I talked my 13 y.o. son off the ledge last night while some people were being total assclowns atthe Bdubbs we were in, chiding and jeering at him. He was in tears a couple times, but I walked him through that while this sucks, it's simply the life of a sports fan sometimes, and in the end for the common fan, that's where it ends. The vast majority of us have it pretty good, and other than the natural family tragedies we will eventually encounter over time, we enjoy a helluva care-free life. I told him it's going to be a beautiful summer and lucky for us we have a pool, so we have that to look forward to. He has track season coming up, so we can go for run together today to ramp up for that.That gym is great. Has that dug in thing that Carver-Hawkeye has.
And flipping back to sports, I said hey, what if Brownsburg, (a local highschool that has a top recruit heading to Purdue in 2 years, Canon Catchings) upsets #1 undefeated Ben Davis tmrw night in New Castle for the semi-state. Wouldn't that be something to go to live? They did win this morning so I bought tix. And just like that, as disappointed as we are, we're ready to continue this fandom road of being a glutton for punishment. It's because we're sports diehards. And it's because hope springs eternal. So yes we'll do it all over again with Purdue football in 2023 as Walters builds the program and in 2023-24 when Painter figures out how to bring Purdue back from this very low moment entering what will likely be with preseason #3 of higher if Edey returns.
As I talked my 13 y.o. son off the ledge last night while some people were being total assclowns atthe Bdubbs we were in, chiding and jeering at him. He was in tears a couple times, but I walked him through that while this sucks, it's simply the life of a sports fan sometimes, and in the end for the common fan, that's where it ends. The vast majority of us have it pretty good, and other than the natural family tragedies we will eventually encounter over time, we enjoy a helluva care-free life. I told him it's going to be a beautiful summer and lucky for us we have a pool, so we have that to look forward to. He has track season coming up, so we can go for run together today to ramp up for that.very well said and I am right there with you.
And flipping back to sports, I said hey, what if Brownsburg, (a local highschool that has a top recruit heading to Purdue in 2 years, Canon Catchings) upsets #1 undefeated Ben Davis tmrw night in New Castle for the semi-state. Wouldn't that be something to go to live? They did win this morning so I bought tix. And just like that, as disappointed as we are, we're ready to continue this fandom road of being a glutton for punishment. It's because we're sports diehards. And it's because hope springs eternal. So yes we'll do it all over again with Purdue football in 2023 as Walters builds the program and in 2023-24 when Painter figures out how to bring Purdue back from this very low moment entering what will likely be with preseason #3 of higher if Edey returns.
As I talked my 13 y.o. son off the ledge last night while some people were being total assclowns atthe Bdubbs we were in, chiding and jeering at him. He was in tears a couple times, but I walked him through that while this sucks, it's simply the life of a sports fan sometimes, and in the end for the common fan, that's where it ends. The vast majority of us have it pretty good, and other than the natural family tragedies we will eventually encounter over time, we enjoy a helluva care-free life. I told him it's going to be a beautiful summer and lucky for us we have a pool, so we have that to look forward to. He has track season coming up, so we can go for run together today to ramp up for that.So do you like the Lions or Browns?
And flipping back to sports, I said hey, what if Brownsburg, (a local highschool that has a top recruit heading to Purdue in 2 years, Canon Catchings) upsets #1 undefeated Ben Davis tmrw night in New Castle for the semi-state. Wouldn't that be something to go to live? They did win this morning so I bought tix. And just like that, as disappointed as we are, we're ready to continue this fandom road of being a glutton for punishment. It's because we're sports diehards. And it's because hope springs eternal. So yes we'll do it all over again with Purdue football in 2023 as Walters builds the program and in 2023-24 when Painter figures out how to bring Purdue back from this very low moment entering what will likely be with preseason #3 of higher if Edey returns.
Probably Bears or Colts. No difference.
Well I had Kansas all the way, so I'm screwed.
Nice work. I still think it's terrific my Mom that watches 0 games a year is leading the pool.
As I talked my 13 y.o. son off the ledge last night while some people were being total assclowns atthe Bdubbs we were in, chiding and jeering at him. He was in tears a couple times, but I walked him through that while this sucks, it's simply the life of a sports fan sometimes, and in the end for the common fan, that's where it ends. The vast majority of us have it pretty good, and other than the natural family tragedies we will eventually encounter over time, we enjoy a helluva care-free life. I told him it's going to be a beautiful summer and lucky for us we have a pool, so we have that to look forward to. He has track season coming up, so we can go for run together today to ramp up for that.I thought the problem was internet tough guys, but I actually think a large number of people came out of quarantine, totally unable to interact in the real world. That is awful
houston down ten at the halfMSU went from having a great draw, to a bad one, because nobody is busting around them
Princeton wins
when all the brackets are busted, gotta help the Big Ten
Princeton looking strongThose Princeton alums finally had something go their way
I just learned for the first time that Bama's HC name is Nate Oats. Huh, he's a native of WI. West/NW of where I grew up.Wrong place, wrong time?
Heh. I just saw the name 'Oats' and was like, I remember a guy from WI named Oats, wonder if he is.....did he look like this guy
Just to continue my complaints about the timing of these games. Why is it 11:00 on Saturday, and we only have one game still active, and it's at halftime?Do ... do we want multiple games going past mightnight?
But we will likely have four games running simultaneously at like 9:00 on Sunday night?
Do ... do we want multiple games going past mightnight?On Saturday? I'd rather have more than one viewing option at 11. Particularly if you are putting all of your eggs in the basket of a 1-8 match up being close. I would prefer to start Saturday later, and jam a lot of content into primetime and late night, and then have Sunday wrap up by 7:00
This feels like the 2001 football season. There is a larger than normal number of title contenders, which makes the chase interesting, but ultimately the best team is so much better than any other team. Alabama is 2001 MiamiI wouldn't have thought that a week ago, but with UCLA, Tennessee, and now Houston losing huge pieces it sure feels that way.
I know a pack of crows is called a murder, but I think an Alabama 4 on 1 is too
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/336863274_1298090927719905_4272214767959627336_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=SVJOQfIGjLYAX-nInYA&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCKzQbAv3gl89watA2ctZ2zuGB9WN9zAFZGDlcRK713-Q&oe=641BBDA9)Purdue has done most of that just in the last three years.
Penny Hardaway showing why I think he’ll always accumulate talent but never win big with it. His bench was chaos the last 5 minutes. Had two players that had to be separated during a timeout. The last 30 seconds he wanted to make a substitution but his player didn’t properly check in so he couldn’t enter the game. Then at the end when Memphis lost he chucks a water bottle across the court.
I don't quite know what to make of Penny because his team got better with less talent.
This year they have two top-100 recruits, three 247 four-stars, most pretty fringy. That's basically a nice Big Ten team. And you'd think if he's chaotic and such behind the bench, they'd be really nice on offense because of the talent, but not on defense. Yet his second and third teams, the ones that were on the outside looking in, rocked on defense and struggled with guard play. So it feels like he's doing some level of coaching, but also a lot of dumb stuff. It's a very weird ride he gets to continue.
Now, hire a coach whose years are spent and reputation is based more on their playing days and I'm not at all surprised to see how heated Hardaway and Howard get on the sidelines.I'm sure Bobby Knight played some ball previously
Purdue has done most of that just in the last three years.Yep. Just in Painter's tenure, he's lost to an 11, 12, 13, 15, and 16.
I'm sure Bobby Knight played some ball previouslyPlayed in three National Championship Games and won an NC as a Buckeye!
I'm confused.When they first put out the bracket, they had several if not all of the two and three seeds flipped. A lot of folks just took that uploaded and didn’t bother to update it, because really why would you?
According to my phone Michigan was an NIT #2 seed and played #3 seed Vanderbilt . . . in Nashville. Why there and not Amn Arbor?
When they first put out the bracket, they had several if not all of the two and three seeds flipped. A lot of folks just took that uploaded and didn’t bother to update it, because really why would you?Thank you.
So Michigan was a three seed
One thing I'll say about Hardaway losing his sideline composure to end Memphis' loss last Friday is that I think it's very predictable that these former players turned coaches would be very emotional. Think Juwan Howard hitting a Wisconsin assistant coach in the face last year. More room is given for players to lose their emotions on the court/field unlike their coaches. Now, hire a coach whose years are spent and reputation is based more on their playing days and I'm not at all surprised to see how heated Hardaway and Howard get on the sidelines.Almost every coach was a former high level player. The only recemt change, is schools hiring underqualified coaches simply because they were stars at the school.
The Big Ten is in that spiral where you need great Big Men to win the league, but Big Men don't really help you much in the tourney. For that, you need great guards. The teams that have looked the best has great guards (Sparty, NW, PSU). Illinois has no point guard. Purdue has a freshmen back court. Indiana is pretty average in the backcourt. I thought Maryland might get somewhere with Jahmir Young, but getting Bammer in the second round ended that.UW has pretty good guard play, and only one true big man. There is no depth in the front court, and that killed them.
UW has pretty good guard play, and only one true big man. There is no depth in the front court, and that killed them.Helping them in their tourney though.
If any of you ever put a shekel or two on games and care about such things, the end of the TCU-Gonzaga game was either one of the all time great covers or all time worst beats (depending on which side you were on) you will ever see.One of the reasons I don't bet sports is exactly this. There isn't much that is more frustrating than losing money to the fact that the motivation of the team you bet on is NOT the same as your motivation.
The line was Gonzaga -4.5. With 9 seconds left GU had it covered. From that point on they went from not covering, to covering, to ultimately not covering.
The way it happened was bizarre though. After two ft put GU up by 7 with 9 seconds left TCU comes down and hits a 3 with under 5 seconds left to cut it to 4. After the Zags successfully inbounded the ball it appeared TCU was just going to let them run the clock out but a kid decides to reach in with 0.7 seconds to send Gonzaga to the line.
Having TCU +4.5 I was apoplectic at this. It was actually going to be the second game of the tournament I had lost with a meaningless foul with 0.7 seconds left. The Gonzaga kid hits both shots to put them up by 6 and seemingly seal my fate.
But on the inbound instead of just lazily tossing it in and letting the clock run out the TCU kid just rolls it down the court and Gonzaga just lets him. So, the ball is slowly rolling down the court until a kid from TCU picks it up from about 25 feet and bottoms one out at the buzzer. Ball game. And you could hear audible groans from the crowd when it went in.
UW has pretty good guard play, and only one true big man. There is no depth in the front court, and that killed them.The guard play was below program standard. Could’ve been bailed out by a very good frontcourt, but neither of the starting bags delivered average seasons for the position.
Way to be objective, lol.I wanted to come back to this:
The guard play was below program standard. Could’ve been bailed out by a very good frontcourt, but neither of the starting bags delivered average seasons for the position.Oh, I agree, but it was not terrible. They were decent, but that's below standard. The standard is pretty darn high.
I know a pack of crows is called a murder, but I think an Alabama 4 on 1 is tooela, this is low. not only are you being obtuse and willfully ignorant of the facts, you're making jokes about a situation in which 1 life was ended and multiple others ruined. honestly, i expect better of this sub and you in particular.
(despicable pic of assholes)(not sure why, but the pic wont show up when quoting you)
ela, this is low. not only are you being obtuse and willfully ignorant of the facts, you're making jokes about a situation in which 1 life was ended and multiple others ruined. honestly, i expect better of this sub and you in particular.I haven't followed this story very closely but here are the alleged (although basically undeniable) facts as I understand them:
(not sure why, but the pic wont show up when quoting you)I get it but basically get used to it. I've been tarred with the worst behavior of tOSU fans and seen that go every which way around here.
these assholes (there were 2 wearing the shit) were derided by other bama fans (and non-bama fans) at the sec tourney, kicked out for the remainder of the tourney. at least 1 was shamed enough to turn it inside out. I hope they are banned from all bama/sec facilities for life.
I’m not surprised about the disparity between 12 and 13 seeds. Historically, the 13-16 seeds are all mid-major AQ schools. Usually the lowest seed an at-large will get is 12.Since 2000, it’s half-and-half, Although I’m not totally sure how many of the power conference ones needed the auto bid.
So, really, a lot of 12 seeds are teams the committee believe deserve to be in while the 13 seeds are teams the committee have to put in, but wouldn’t make it in otherwise.
Of the 12 seeds that have made the Sweet 16 I’d be interested to see the breakdown of power conference vs mid-major schools. My guess is the majority were from a power conference.
I haven't followed this story very closely but here are the alleged (although basically undeniable) facts as I understand them:few corrections on your "facts"No matter how it is spun, that is a REALLY bad look for Bama's BB program. From my fairly neutral perspective (I neither love nor hate Bama BB), my honest "sports" reaction was to wonder if Bama's rather impressive recent rise has been fuelled in part by taking questionable recruits that more established "Blue Blood type" programs may have passed on due to character questions.
- A Bama BB player (subsequently kicked off the team although that is largely irrelevant since he is in jail anyway so it is not like he would be playing regardless) shot and killed a woman whom I believe was a mother. I do not know the relationship between the two people.
- A second Bama BB player who is still on the team brought the firearm to the scene.
- At least one additional Bama BB player who is still on the team was present at the time of the shooting.
I don't know that and I'm not alleging it, I'm just saying that it certainly crossed my mind.
Ultimately if Bama's BB rise WAS fuelled by taking questionable recruits then you (Bama fans in general, not you personally) deserve all the ribbing you are getting and will continue to get. Ie, your program made this bed.
If not, and this was just a dumb luck thing from Bama's perspective then that sucks for you and the program. I get it but basically get used to it. I've been tarred with the worst behavior of tOSU fans and seen that go every which way around here.
also, and this was my point to ela, this site is typically above that bs. reddit, twitter, etc., i expect it from randoms. but we tout to be more than randoms to each other here.
If not, and this was just a dumb luck thing from Bama's perspective then that sucks for you and the program. I get it but basically get used to it. I've been tarred with the worst behavior of tOSU fans and seen that go every which way around here.
In round numbers we have three extra #3-9 seeds, two less top-2, and one less Cinderella than usual.I was thinking about it and this might be a worst-case-scenario as far as fan interest is concerned. I think there are two main motivators of fan interest:
I was thinking about it and this might be a worst-case-scenario as far as fan interest is concerned. I think there are two main motivators of fan interest:Well, I do believe there was a stat that no Cinderella (i.e. 13 seed or worse) had *ever* won a S16 game in history. So who would ever think that's something that'll happen?This particular S16 is lacking in both of those areas. Four of the top eight teams are out so there aren't many great teams left and Princeton is the only Cinderella left.
- Cinderella: To see a no-name low seed knock off a team that is a blue blood or a high seed or both.
- Quality BB: To see great teams matched against each other.
I was thinking about it and this might be a worst-case-scenario as far as fan interest is concerned. I think there are two main motivators of fan interest:just a continuation of the season. there were periods during the year when several teams all felt like the team separating themselves from the rest of cbb. but they all seemed to fall back into the pack. uconn, purdue, zags, bama, kansas, texas, tennessee, houston, ucla, all at one point or another felt like the 1 or 2 teams that just stood above the rest. then you had marquette, baylor, st mary, miami, xavier and probably a couple others that usually felt just outside, but given a chance might sneak away with it.This particular S16 is lacking in both of those areas. Four of the top eight teams are out so there aren't many great teams left and Princeton is the only Cinderella left.
- Cinderella: To see a no-name low seed knock off a team that is a blue blood or a high seed or both.
- Quality BB: To see great teams matched against each other.
Well, I do believe there was a stat that no Cinderella (i.e. 13 seed or worse) had *ever* won a S16 game in history. So who would ever think that's something that'll happen?st pete won s16 last year as a 15 seed. or is that the joke i'm missing?
Oh... wait...
if you read through all this, bravo. ended up being waaay longer than intended. i suspect most won't, and will continue on in ignorance about that event.That sounds a lot better than the way I heard it but I haven't followed closely. When will it be on dateline or 20/20?
st pete won s16 last year as a 15 seed. or is that the joke i'm missing?Beta is a Purdue fan, he knows. The "joke" is his frustration with Purdue's postseason struggles.
Beta is a Purdue fan, he knows. The "joke" is his frustration with Purdue's postseason struggles.Yep. Purdue losing to St Pete's was a historic loss. Purdue losing to FDU might be as well, if you consider it through the sense of FDU being the worst school to ever win an NCAAT game, rather than Purdue being the second #1 seed in history to lose to a #16, rather than the first. Purdue was ALMOST the first back in the Keady days, but survived that, and then UVA became the first.
Yep. Purdue losing to St Pete's was a historic loss. Purdue losing to FDU might be as well, if you consider it through the sense of FDU being the worst school to ever win an NCAAT game, rather than Purdue being the second #1 seed in history to lose to a #16, rather than the first. Purdue was ALMOST the first back in the Keady days, but survived that, and then UVA became the first.We always have next year to look forward to in completing the string :91:
Just like the meme that Arizona is the only team to ever lose to an 11, 12, 13, 14, and 15 seed. Well, Purdue is the only team to have ever lost to an 11, 12, 13, 15, and 16 seed. Add a 14 in there and I think you get a free meal at Denny's.
My little sister played for the Hawkeyes WBB in the late 1970s - early 80s. I am about equally interested in the women's and men's games, but obviously this year more interested in the women's game since the Hawkeye women are so fun to watch.Good luck ... will be rooting for your Hawks to make it this year. Enjoy watching Caitlin Clark and co
Iowa WBB is a 2-seed. In Iowa's bracket: the 1-seed, 3-seed, and 4-seed are out. Iowa WBB hasn't been to the Final Four since 1993. Yet, over the years, Ohio State and Iowa have been the two dominant programs in the Big Ten, and Maryland has figured into the mix as well. Maryland's coach is from Cedar Rapids, so go figure.
For Iowa to reach the Final Four, they must first defeat 6th seed Colorado, and then the winner of 8th seed Ole Miss vs. 5th seed Louisville. At this point every team in the tournament is capable of defeating every other team. I am thinking Caitlin Clark, Gabbie Marshall, Monica Czinano, and company are very capable.
Iowa WBB could make the Final Four for the first time since 1993.
Wisconsin won another NIT game, this one in dumber fashion than the last.It's just the South Park youth baseball episode
They're really making some of those edge of the roster guys wait on these transfers.
Wisconsin won another NIT game, this one in dumber fashion than the last.I'm surprised they won out there.
They're really making some of those edge of the roster guys wait on these transfers.
I'm surprised they won out there.They did spend like 38 minutes playing like they absolutely had no business doing so.
Go Green, Go White, a final four for MSU would help the league's reputation after taking a (mostly) undeserved hit the first weekend.I say that this hit was mostly undeserved because the first weekend for the B1G consisted of:
The Spartans face Kansas State tonight at 630 in NYC on TBS. According to my phone MSU is favored by a point over the Wildcats despite being a #7 seed playing a #3 seed. Apparently the wise guys who set the lines are familiar with the name Tom Izzo.Based on KenPom, KSU should be about a 2 point favorite, so I did hear them say they figure Izzo must be worth about one basket
I knew Kansas state's two best players were transfers, I didn't realize they didn't have a single kid on their entire roster who started there. I mean I get why their coach did it, and clearly it worked, but I can't imagine caring at all how that team did if I was a fannot sure that makes any difference
I knew Kansas state's two best players were transfers, I didn't realize they didn't have a single kid on their entire roster who started there. I mean I get why their coach did it, and clearly it worked, but I can't imagine caring at all how that team did if I was a fanProbably helps getting to watch Nowell
not sure that makes any differenceEh, I think there's a reason we are here, and not on a pro sports message board. And I bet there isn't a single pro sports team that didn't draft a single player on their team.
if a team is a winner they will always have plenty of fans
I knew Kansas state's two best players were transfers, I didn't realize they didn't have a single kid on their entire roster who started there. I mean I get why their coach did it, and clearly it worked, but I can't imagine caring at all how that team did if I was a fanI wonder how much was his doing vs natural attrition.
Kemba 2.0. this kid is going to single-handedly carry his team to the title. He is their entire teamThe reverse jinx work is strong.
I wonder how much was his doing vs natural attrition.I don't blame him. He inherited a bad roster, that I assume got worse when there was a coaching transition
I knew Kansas state's two best players were transfers, I didn't realize they didn't have a single kid on their entire roster who started there. I mean I get why their coach did it, and clearly it worked, but I can't imagine caring at all how that team did if I was a fanJerry Seinfeld had a bit where he said fans basically cheer for laundry, and it’s true. Just put the right shirt on a guy and fans will cheer for him.
Jerry Seinfeld had a bit where he said fans basically cheer for laundry, and it’s true. Just put the right shirt on a guy and fans will cheer for him.Which, like I said, is why most of us are college sports fans, rooting for our alma mater, over a bunch of guys whose only tie to a city, is their paycheck is signed by a guy, who happened to buy the team that built a stadium there a while ago.
As good as Nowell has been I didn’t like that shot.All of his shots have been bad. He's made a couple bad ones, but MSU helping off their guy to come over on him has been a horrible gameplan
All of his shots have been bad. He's made a couple bad ones, but MSU helping off their guy to come over on him has been a horrible gameplanAnd more. If MSU loses this game, it's on Izzo. Drop off him until he forces you to do otherwise, and never help off. MSU guarded him way too tight, and gave him options to pass to
Oof, some terrible decisions on that last possession.https://twitter.com/k_dunbar9/status/1639070761989337088?t=DKeoCJJK6TtW6kwtzZfB7Q&s=19
Is 14-6-7-9 the easiest Final 4 path ever, purely in terms of opponent seed?It's actually the same path Michigan had a couple years ago, but then they also had a 12 seat in the final four.
Is 14-6-7-9 the easiest Final 4 path ever, purely in terms of opponent seed?https://www.google.com/search?q=youtube+ten+commandments+red+sea+crossing&client=ms-android-tmus-us-revc&sxsrf=APwXEdee91v68PzFB3jshLTz1Uqg7GvtrA%3A1679670901419&ei=db4dZPSXGcrU5NoP3t2A4AE&oq=youtube+ten+comm+red+sea+crossing&gs_lcp=ChNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwEAEYADIICCEQoAEQwwQ6CggAEEcQ1gQQsAM6BAgjECc6BggAEAcQHjoGCAAQCBAeOggIABCKBRCGAzoFCAAQogQ6CAgAEAgQBxAeOgoIIRCgARDDBBAKOgQIIRAKSgQIQRgAUMUPWLknYMMvaAFwAHgAgAHoAYgBvQqSAQUwLjguMZgBAKABAcgBCMABAQ&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:65aca8cd,vid:j3CANELyPo0
one storyline emerged in the women’s NIT. Following Bowling Green’s victory over Memphis, Tigers senior Jamirah Shutes punched Bowling Green’s Elissa Brett in the handshake line.Does she not realize Michigan isn't looking for a women's coach presently?
Now, Shutes is being charged with assault following the incident, according to Pat Forde of SI. The statement was sent out by Bowling Green University Police:
“Following Thursday’s unwarranted physical incident after the WNIT home game, the Bowling Green State University Police Department has charged a member of the Memphis Women’s Basketball team with assault. Additionally, BGSU Athletics is conducting its own review. Violence is never acceptable and our priority remains the health, safety and support of our student-athlete, who is recovering and doing well. This is an active investigation in conjunction with the City of Bowling Green Prosecutor…”
At this point if you get one team in the Final Four you might win your pool.If the favorites won today, I'd have 6 Elite 8 teams, so naturally the first two lost
At this point if you get one team in the Final Four you might win your pool.My Kid's final 4 is:
The Championship game is guaranteed to have one of these schools in it.Texas vs Kansas St champ game
K St
San Diego St
Florida Atlantic
Creighton
Princeton
Drink that in.
(https://i.imgur.com/uZ9yhUI.png)If I met that lady, so would I
Iowa women on the way to the elite 8 after defeating Colorado 87-77My little sis' was an Iowa WBB letter winner in the late 70s / early 80s at guard. You can imagine how my extended family is following these games. I am very optimistic about Iowa making the Final Four. Louisville has some good playmakers but Iowa has better playmakers.
Incidentally, Clarke University of Dubuque won the NAIA WBB tournament. Iowa had 3 teams in the D-1 NCAA WBB tournament. Iowa women's basketball / girls basketball has been strong since the 1920s, and is really strong this year.home court advantage in Sioux City, IA
We had a 4, 5, 5, and a 9 in the Final Four.Sucks having entertainment be entertaining
Sooooo.....basically none of the top 10 teams is going to win the NC.
That's one way to determine a champion, I guess.
We had a 4, 5, 5, and a 9 in the Final Four.
Sooooo.....basically none of the top 10 teams is going to win the NC.
That's one way to determine a champion, I guess.
Sucks having entertainment be entertainingI do not think that your arguments are mutually exclusive.
Has anyone ever argued it's the best way to crown a champion? I think everyone has acknowledged its actually the worstIn some ways it is absolutely the most straightforward. But playoffs of any type obviously do not reward the overall thing.
Sucks having entertainment be entertainingDoesn't suck for the fans. Doesn't suck for the money-makers.
Iowa WBB is in the Final Four.No dribbles? I love it. That’s efficient.
Sunday morning Asst. Coach Jan Jensen's father died from pancreatic cancer. Jan Jensen coaches the post players, and coached last night in Seattle.
In high school Jan Jensen was one of Iowa's epic 6-on-6 girls BBall players who as a HS senior averaged 66 points per game. Later, Jan Jensen played for Iowa's head coach Lisa Bluder, but at Drake University; Jensen averaged over 29 points per game at Drake in 5 on 5 (more than Caitlin Clark). Jan Jensen coaches up the Hawkeyes' post players. Iowa Post Player Megan Gustafson led the NCAA WBB in scoring as a center in 2017-18, and 2018-19.
Now Monica Czinano, Iowa's post player has for the past two-years, had epic seasons.
Iowa's post player Monica Czinano has had no dribbles in the NCAA WBB tournament. She dribbled once in the Big Ten Tournament. Czinano averages 17.4 points per game.
Doesn't suck for the fans. Doesn't suck for the money-makers.was it SDSU or Miami that finished a great 2nd half comeback w/o hitting a 3?
Kinda sucks for the athletes who go 31-4 and don't make the Sweet 16 because one opponent gets hot from 3.
Iowa WBB is in the Final Four.Iowa beat Louisville to get to the Women's F4 and LSU beat Miami, FL in the other E8 game yesterday.
South Carolina is -14.5, VT is -3Thanks.
Thanks.Maryland lost and Ohio State is in a close game.
Well, I'm rooting for underdogs tonight!
Go Terps!
Go Bucks!
Worst-case-scenario is two SEC, one ACC, and one B1G.So this happened :(
was it SDSU or Miami that finished a great 2nd half comeback w/o hitting a 3?Don't know.
Don't know.This is a little amusing.
Don't care.
I loooooove people who dwell on the exceptions, though. Just great content.
@bayareabadger (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1571)Odd team. They defend hard and foul a lot. Good at forcing turnovers.
Any thoughts on the Badger game tonight? Sounds like UNT is a pretty tough team to score against.
Odd team. They defend hard and foul a lot. Good at forcing turnovers.Oddly, their worst team of the past 4 seasons, per KenPom, was the one who actually made the NCAAT...and then beat Purdue
On offense, they crash the glass and put up 3s, hitting at a good clip (but a bit turnover prone). Offense runs through two guards and a starting center who is hurt. Backup center was good in the last game.
Outside him, they don’t play anyone bigger than 6-7, but 200-pound forward Aaron Scott can do work on the boards and inside.
Geezus. Badgers scored zero points over the final 9:07. UNT covered laying the 1.5.Sir, you don't give enough credit to the four-minute scoring drought before the bucket that represented UW's last points.
Yes, NIT now is for 'hire'. Next year's semis and final are at Hinkle Fieldhouse.
No dribbles? I love it. That’s efficient.Very efficient. I will explain this. Iowa post player coach Jan Jensen averaged 66 points as a senior in Iowa High School 6 on 6 in her senior season. It was really a 3 on 3 game on either side of the court as there were 3 offensive players, and 3 defensive players on each side, and offensive and defensive players stayed on their own side of the court. This game was played for over 70-years. There was a huge following for the game with the state tournament selling out when I was a kid. This 6 on 6 girls BBall game was played in Iowa and Oklahoma. Offensive players could only dribble 2x. Jan Jensen is quite tall and being the offensive side in high school. She knows the value of tall girls not dribbling. Iowa has had good post players under her tutelage, in addition to good guard play. Megan Gustafson led the NCAA D-1 in scoring 4-5 years ago for 2 seasons.
Sir, you don't give enough credit to the four-minute scoring drought before the bucket that represented UW's last points.Up 41-29 at the half. Up 51-42 with 13 minutes left.
Absolutely fitting way to end this thing.
Very efficient. I will explain this. Iowa post player coach Jan Jensen averaged 66 points as a senior in Iowa High School 6 on 6 in her senior season. It was really a 3 on 3 game on either side of the court as there were 3 offensive players, and 3 defensive players on each side, and offensive and defensive players stayed on their own side of the court. This game was played for over 70-years. There was a huge following for the game with the state tournament selling out when I was a kid. This 6 on 6 girls BBall game was played in Iowa and Oklahoma. Offensive players could only dribble 2x. Jan Jensen is quite tall and being the offensive side in high school. She knows the value of tall girls not dribbling. Iowa has had good post players under her tutelage, in addition to good guard play. Megan Gustafson led the NCAA D-1 in scoring 4-5 years ago for 2 seasons.That’s wild. I’ve never heard of that brand of basketball.
As for this coming Friday, Iowa's tallest starting post player is Czinano at 6'2", and the 6th man in is 6'2" Hannah Stuelke. Both are very good but are not near as tall as the front line players on S. Carolina.
There is a 2nd teamer for Iowa, O'Grady, who more rarely plays, at 6'4", and is less athletic than Czinano and Stuelke.
Iowa needs help in this Friday semifinal game. Luck, crowd, Caitlin Clark hitting logo 3s, and also driving and forcing fouls on S. Carolina, and Gabbie Marshall and McKenna Warnock hitting more simple 3s at a high % will help.
Up 41-29 at the half. Up 51-42 with 13 minutes left.I had to look it up, unbelievable.
Score 3 more points to get to 54.
Allow 14 points to become the biggest loser.
Yep, that's 2022-23 Wisconsin basketball.
I had to look it up, unbelievable.2006 MSU at OSU.
Wisconsin made a layup with 14:25 to go to take a 49-42 lead. In those last 14+ minutes they were outscored 14-5.
Obviously scoring five points in 14 minutes is terrible but it could have been worse because it isn't like UNT's one point per minute output is very impressive.
I had to look it up, unbelievable.If you look even further...
Wisconsin made a layup with 14:25 to go to take a 49-42 lead. In those last 14+ minutes they were outscored 14-5.
Obviously scoring five points in 14 minutes is terrible but it could have been worse because it isn't like UNT's one point per minute output is very impressive.
(https://scontent.ffsd2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/338041381_735686751388759_3128355533137889915_n.png?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=N_GZdWagPMMAX83Rufq&_nc_ht=scontent.ffsd2-1.fna&oh=00_AfCVHetQ_6IrK9uVqA42YpAzSTaLs70YrVspEcUNxS5qjQ&oe=64294CA2)This is not a Suprise. At all.
I bump into NHL and MLB fans all the timePeople follow their local teams. Local ratings are still fine. But national ratings are blah for all 3 compared to what they once were. Granted NBA still greatly outrates MLB and NHL.
I never talk to anyone interested in the NBA
now, I'm in NW Iowa - only one NBA team that's close - Timber wolves
People follow their local teams. Local ratings are still fine. But national ratings are blah for all 3 compared to what they once were. Granted NBA still greatly outrates MLB and NHL.Do you think any of these Chapter 11 filings by regional sports networks are going to felt by MLB? At some point the money can't just keep escalating, you would think the TV contracts are going to plateau for every league that doesn't have NFL in it.
Do you think any of these Chapter 11 filings by regional sports networks are going to felt by MLB? At some point the money can't just keep escalating, you would think the TV contracts are going to plateau for every league that doesn't have NFL in it.I wonder if MLB just eventually drops blackout rules for MLB.tv, and everything is just through that
Wisconsin's Jordan Davis (Johnny's brother) has entered the portal. I do not like this at all.This was pretty unsurprising. He was pretty inconsistent, and he kept putting jumpers into the side of the backboard. I think he probably maintains that starting spot if he’s on a team with a better top three, but they didn’t have it this year.
When Jordan was starting this season, the Badgers were 12-2. He plays defense and can hit a big shot too.
I look for Jahcobi Neath (maybe), Marcus Ilvers and Chris Hodges to also transfer.I would be surprised if they pulled Gilmore‘s scholarship. Lindsey was a one-year deal anyway.
There are 2 in-state guys with scholarships who were walk-on's. Gilmore and Lindsey.
Look for those scholarships to be pulled, and replaced with some NIL money.
.
I'm really starting to not like this game.
They could NIL McGee and even Klesmit if they wanted to. Both are from Wisconsin, so in-state tuition is there.A. They get some benefits, but lost out on certain things
Gard has said privately that he wants 3 transfers. They are now full for next year, even with Davis leaving.
The only way to make room is to Crean house. There will be some "tough conversations" in the next week or so.
.
Random question.
Are walk-on kids entitled to the same benefits as scholarship kids? Things like nutrition, training, academic support?
Well, they need 3 more spots if they want 3 transfers.This is true. But they don’t need eight ways to get those three spots (although they might be looking to add a fourth player if Tyler leaves).
We don't yet know what Wahl is doing.
This is true. But they don’t need eight ways to get those three spots (although they might be looking to add a fourth player if Tyler leaves).I was just pointing out ways it could be done - not advocating.
In any case, maybe Tyler hates school more than he likes money, but we shall see.
If he stays, the most logical path to three openings is Neath and Hodges leaving, then Lindsey going off scholarship as planned. Anything else that doesn’t take away from the top five opens up more flexibility or the chance for Lindsay to get his schooling paid for
I was just pointing out ways it could be done - not advocating.I think Ilver has offensive potential, but he was just so skinny and weak this year. I wouldn't say he's a must-keep, but I also think there's a lot of guys I'd let go of first. Also would be unsurprised if he wants to look elsewhere.
What are your thoughts in Ilvers? Is he worth a scholarship? So far, my answer is no.
FTR I like McGee and I like Gilmore. They are glue guys.
I'm thinking Wahl could make more money on NIL than he could in Europe. I'm leaning toward him staying in school.
At 5:30 p.m. March 31 we had a small tornado go through about 3-4 miles of our little town of Manchester, Iowa. It came within one-mile of our house, and one-half mile of my law office building. It uprooted big trees, and took down some outbuildings, but most importantly it took down our electricity. I listened to the Iowa WBB Hawkeyes on the radio rather than on ESPN.Glad it doesn't seem that you had too much damage and no injuries
At 5:30 p.m. March 31 we had a small tornado go through about 3-4 miles of our little town of Manchester, Iowa. It came within one-mile of our house, and one-half mile of my law office building. It uprooted big trees, and took down some outbuildings, but most importantly it took down our electricity. I listened to the Iowa WBB Hawkeyes on the radio rather than on ESPN.Glad you are OK.
Two minutes after the game concluded, the power came on after the greatest moments in Iowa Hawkeyes WBB history had just ended.
I am guessing my little sister, who played Hawkeye WBB, is woozy, right now, because she is in Dallas meeting up with some on her team, and her coach.
Glad you are OK.Our power went out. Next a tornado warning was on our cell phones which was very specific about the immediate area was affected. We could hear rumbling noise. What was odd is that it wasn't until five minutes after the warning was on the cell phones that the sirens sounded.
.
Man, UConn built a damn war machineThe game last night was the first UCONN game I've seen all year and my thought watching was to wonder how they were a #4 seed. They sure looked like a #1 seed to me.
The game last night was the first UCONN game I've seen all year and my thought watching was to wonder how they were a #4 seed. They sure looked like a #1 seed to me.They were the best team in the nation for the first thirdish of the season, and the last thirdish. And in the middle they lost 6 of 8.
They were the best team in the nation for the first thirdish of the season, and the last thirdish. And in the middle they lost 6 of 8.Makes sense then. Looked great last night.
Started 14-0, then went 2-6, then went 14-2
Is anybody expecting much of a game tonight?Hard to say...UConn has been really good in the tourney. But SDSU is a big tough veteran team and probably the best team UConn will have played, especially defensively.
I expect UCONN to win on a laugher.
Florida Atlantic is better than Miami by both Torvik and KenPom; I don't think seeding is nearly as important as it used to be.Seeding reflects resume, which in part reflects schedule opportunity.
Seeding reflects resume, which in part reflects schedule opportunity.Sure, though with the transfer portal the difference between teams 5-25 feels pretty danged tight. College basketball feels a lot more like a game of Yahtzee.
I think seeding still matters to a large degree, but sometimes it won't. This likely be the first 4 seed to win since 1997, second ranked lower than 3 since then.
Brian Dutcher's buyout is only $1M if the U of M pays it, $6 million for everyone else. Methinks Mark Could hired the wrong coach.