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Topic: 2021 Awards Season

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FearlessF

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #42 on: December 10, 2021, 01:22:16 PM »
Harbaugh named AP Coach of the Year.
space cadet 
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #43 on: December 10, 2021, 08:13:56 PM »
91 tackles, 29 TFL, 15.5 sacks
vs
58 tackles, 15.5 TFL, 14 sacks
.
Why is the 2nd guy obsessed over and the 1st guy isn't?
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

FearlessF

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #44 on: December 10, 2021, 08:53:06 PM »
shiny helmet?
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #45 on: December 10, 2021, 08:56:42 PM »
The 1st guy has the shiniest helmet.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Mdot21

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #46 on: December 10, 2021, 09:02:19 PM »
91 tackles, 29 TFL, 15.5 sacks
vs
58 tackles, 15.5 TFL, 14 sacks
.
Why is the 2nd guy obsessed over and the 1st guy isn't?
They are both incredible players. Both belong there.

Might be a case of stats do not tell the entire story also. Anderson can be ran at according to PFF, and well, Hutchinson cannot. Hutchinson was the only edge defender in the nation rated by PFF as having over an 85 run defense and 85 pass rush grade. They deem anything an 85 elite, and Hutchinson was literally the only edge guy that PFF ranks elite in both categories.

Hutchinson had his biggest moment in literally the most watched/highest rated college football game all season getting 3 sacks vs the #1 offense in the nation and he also 15 pressures by himself vs an OL that hadn't given up more than I think 6 pressures to an opposing defense in a game all-season. Ohio State had PFF's #1 ranked pass protection OL unit and had a pair of tackles that were being projected in the 1st or 2nd round and Hutchinson just flat out whooped on them. Bullied them really. 

Meanwhile Anderson had kinda quiet games down the stretch vs Auburn & Georgia. Think it was probably a case of one guy not really popping down the stretch and the other guy coming up huge in his teams biggest game in the most televised college football game all-season. 

I mean it's splitting hairs if you ask me. These are both incredible college players and super high NFL draft picks. Hutch probably going #1 overall considering the QB's are god awful this draft- and Anderson won't last past the top 5 in the next draft. These guys are both premier bluechip players through and through.

Mdot21

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #47 on: December 10, 2021, 09:04:29 PM »
The 1st guy has the shiniest helmet.
I don't think so. Alabama is the premier program on the field- and has been for like 15 years- but that's all because of Saban. It's still a somewhat regional program in terms of reach imo. Any reach they have had these last 15 years has been bc of the crazy success Saban has brought there. The school doesn't have a massive alumni base, built-in national fanbase, and the state of Alabama is and has always been one of the smallest states population wise and also one of the poorest states GDP wise in the union.

They are without question a helmet, blue-blood, and cornerstone franchise- but we talking purely shiniest of shiny helmets- that might be an ND v Michigan debate.

Mdot21

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #48 on: December 11, 2021, 08:57:57 PM »
to the surprise of no one, QB Bryce Young of Alabama wins the Heisman.

Mdot21

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #49 on: December 11, 2021, 09:01:50 PM »
Alabama now has 4 Heisman Trophy winners in it's history, and all of them during the Saban era.

I think 3 of them were legit, Derrick Henry, DeVonta Smith, and Bryce Young all very deserving winners. The Mark Ingram win in 2009 still seems pretty damn suspect to me. He shouldn't have won it. It should've went to Suh or even Toby Gehrhart.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #50 on: December 11, 2021, 09:44:58 PM »
They are both incredible players. Both belong there.

Might be a case of stats do not tell the entire story also. Anderson can be ran at according to PFF, and well, Hutchinson cannot. Hutchinson was the only edge defender in the nation rated by PFF as having over an 85 run defense and 85 pass rush grade. They deem anything an 85 elite, and Hutchinson was literally the only edge guy that PFF ranks elite in both categories.

I mean it's splitting hairs if you ask me. 
Its not a "they're both good" or "all other things are equal" thing at all......TWICE THE TFL.  Those are runs, you know that, right?  Tons more tackles.  All while having more sacks.  Plus dropping back in coverage.  

If Hutchinson could do that vs the great OSU, why didn't he do more against the mortal teams?  And PFF has Anderson 80%+ vs run and pass, too.  


At least the Nagurski people got it right.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

MaximumSam

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #51 on: December 11, 2021, 09:54:51 PM »
Its not a "they're both good" or "all other things are equal" thing at all......TWICE THE TFL.  Those are runs, you know that, right?  Tons more tackles.  All while having more sacks.  Plus dropping back in coverage. 

If Hutchinson could do that vs the great OSU, why didn't he do more against the mortal teams?  And PFF has Anderson 80%+ vs run and pass, too. 


At least the Nagurski people got it right.
Hutchinson was the best defensive player in the nation and it wasn't particularly close.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #52 on: December 11, 2021, 10:47:03 PM »
Some Heisman voting fun facts from previous years:

2019:  OSU DE Chase Young had more 1st place votes than the 2 players ahead of him put together (Hurts, Fields....20 votes to 18).
2018:  QBs Gardner Minshew and McKenzie Milton finished 5th and 6th, respectively...McKenzie has 373 fewer pass attempts.  That's quite a workload disparity, no?
2016:  Jabril Peppers is a weird case.  Everyone was enamored with his versatility, but what did he actually DO?  3 sacks.  1 INT.  1 pass deflection.  13 TFL.  3 TDs on offense.  His biggest plus was being a very good punt returner.  
To me, versatility doesn't mean a lot if you can't do many things WELL.  I have no doubt that his versatility helped his team and his willingness to do it was commendable, but does that equate a top-5 Heisman finish?  1 INT?  60 tackles?  Meh.
2014:  Wisconsin RB Melvin Gordon's 2,587 yards, 7.5 ypc, and 29 TDs warranted only 37 1st place votes.  12 fewer than the guy who finished behind him (Cooper).
.
I'm looking this stuff up and am distracted about something.  I'm going to switch gears and list the 2,000 yard rushers (P5 programs).
2628 Barry Sanders, OKST - WINNER
2587 Melvin Gordon, Wis - 2nd
2427 Marcus Allen, USC - WINNER
2219 Derrick Henry, Ala - WINNER
2194 Jonathan Taylor, Wis - 9th
2185 Troy Davis, ISU - 2nd
2177 Andre Williams, BC - 4th
2150 Tony Dorsett, Pitt - WINNER
2148 Mike Rozier, Neb - WINNER
2124 Ricky Williams, Tex - WINNER
2118 Bryce Love, Stan - 2nd
2109 Ron Dayne, Wis - out of top 10
2094 Chuba Hubbard, OKST - 8th
2087 Larry Johnson, PSU - 3rd
2066 Lorenzo White, MSU - 4th
2063 Damien Anderson, NW - 5th
2055 Rashaan Salaam, CU - WINNER
2050 Charles White, USC -WINNER
2036 Tevin Coleman, IU - 7th
2034 Ron Dayne, Wis - WINNER
2028 D'Onta Foreman, Tex - 8th
2019 Christian McCaffrey, Stan - 2nd
2018 J.J. Arrington, Cal - 8th
2012 Ray Rice, Rut - out of top 10
2010 Troy Davis, ISU - 5th
2003 J.K. Dobbins, OSU - 6th
2003 Jonathan Taylor, Wis - 5th
2000 Byron Hanspard, TTU - 6th
.
I was thinking that maybe D'Onta Foreman was the most anonymous 2,000 yard rusher....and he definitely is, from a helmet program.  But looking over this list and taking into account the timeline of how things happen, I'm left with a question:  Why do Heisman voters need a year to get a guy on their radar before they can really reward him for what he's done?  
Ron Dayne's biggest yardage year was his FR season.  From out of nowhere, he ran over the B1G....and wasn't in the voting at all.  Then, he basically has the same season as a SR, and wins the award.  Mindless.
.
Ray Rice wasn't from out of nowhere, though.  He was on an 8-5 team with no notoriety.  
.
I know every season is different, but I bet a deeper study would expose the voters as slow and inconsistent.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #53 on: December 11, 2021, 10:47:19 PM »
Hutchinson was the best defensive player in the nation and it wasn't particularly close.
Because Stone Cold said so?
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #54 on: December 11, 2021, 10:49:17 PM »
My all-time favorite Heisman voting thing is from 1990:
we almost had a winner with 6 total TDs as a skill position player....but he finished 2nd to a guy who threw 28 INTs.  LOL
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

bayareabadger

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #55 on: December 11, 2021, 10:56:38 PM »
91 tackles, 29 TFL, 15.5 sacks
vs
58 tackles, 15.5 TFL, 14 sacks
.
Why is the 2nd guy obsessed over and the 1st guy isn't?
This bolded part is highly imaginary. The second guy was a finalist for an award that everyone agrees has lot of voting body problems. That's all. 

 

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