header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: Misfits Thread

 (Read 400509 times)

longhorn320

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Posts: 9313
  • Liked:
Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2716 on: June 05, 2020, 11:40:46 AM »
I think Prohibition taught us that "drugs" and gangs are a result of government artificially creating black markets in desired goods, not a creation of black communities.

thats a copout

drugs and gangs wouldnt exist without indifference from the community
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25176
  • Liked:
Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2717 on: June 05, 2020, 11:50:33 AM »
It's a needed reform, IMO, without regard to the particulars of this protest movement.

And without regard to the "black community" (I don't like that term, but can't think of a good replacement) dealing with some of its own internal issues that have little to do with police brutality.
That's the gang member = terrorist thing I talked about. Reform, or jail. Their choice.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 12170
  • Liked:
Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2718 on: June 05, 2020, 12:06:18 PM »
thats a copout

drugs and gangs wouldnt exist without indifference from the community
Really? Is the same true of the mafia? Is the same true of anyone who lives under an autocratic government? 

I think you overestimate the ability to overcome when the group that you're up against is:

  • Organized.
  • Powerful.
  • Willing to use violence to retain that power.

This happens the world over, and blaming the victim is the copout. 


longhorn320

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Posts: 9313
  • Liked:
Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2719 on: June 05, 2020, 12:07:51 PM »
That's the gang member = terrorist thing I talked about. Reform, or jail. Their choice.
we are trying to find common ground between a police force seen as racist and the community where crime is rampant

something is going to have to change on both sides

it cant be a one way street
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

longhorn320

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Posts: 9313
  • Liked:
Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2720 on: June 05, 2020, 12:14:07 PM »
Really? Is the same true of the mafia? Is the same true of anyone who lives under an autocratic government?

I think you overestimate the ability to overcome when the group that you're up against is:

  • Organized.
  • Powerful.
  • Willing to use violence to retain that power.

This happens the world over, and blaming the victim is the copout.


again let me remind you that policies and procedures used by police are administered by elected officials mayor citizen council police chief are all elected

if the policies and procedures are bad then its up to a city's elected officials to change it

a police department is not its own entity its a product of the wishes of a cities elected officials
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71459
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2721 on: June 05, 2020, 12:19:20 PM »
The police force here has the same racial makeup as the city, it's actually more black than the city is now by a bit.  The mayor is black, the PC is a white female.  It's not as if some change in the racial makeup of the leadership is really possible in a way that would satisfy the marchers (who have been mostly peaceful here of late, the looters have been caught or shut down by the curfew, which now starts at 8 PM).

The mayor marched with the protesters yesterday.  I'm struggling to grasp what the protester want to see happen that would cause them to declare victory and go home.

I suspect some of them are wanting to prove they really really are not racist by protesting, it's more of a statement than anything real.

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 12170
  • Liked:
Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2722 on: June 05, 2020, 12:19:45 PM »
again let me remind you that policies and procedures used by police are administered by elected officials mayor citizen council police chief are all elected

if the policies and procedures are bad then its up to a city's elected officials to change it

a police department is not its own entity its a product of the wished of a cities elected officials
That is true, but gangs are emboldened by the drug war, which is REALLY hard to change policy at the city level. Some have done it [decriminalizing marijuana, for example], but if you want to remove the power from the gangs, you have to remove their market, and city politicians can't do that.

We talked several pages ago about why I think the structural political situation is difficult to overcome, because the elected official that goes against the police is not only going to forfeit campaign support from the unions, but will be shouted down as "soft on crime", which is the exact opposite of what those anti-gang black communities want. They want tough on gang-related crime but without killing innocent people in their communities as collateral damage. 

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18839
  • Liked:
Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2723 on: June 05, 2020, 12:27:57 PM »
The programs most republicans are against funding are the same programs that will help lower gang participation and crime rates.  That's the face palm aspect of this situation.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25176
  • Liked:
Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2724 on: June 05, 2020, 12:32:01 PM »
From the Chicago Trib's John Kass:

(there are a lot of good people out there, but we only hear about the bad ones)

*********

The looting was over days ago, and on Thursday, the boards were up, covering the windows of the Jewel at 75th and Stony Island Avenue.

The store had been looted. You want to play politics with this? Go ahead. Everyone else is playing politics now. Astonish your friends with some of your magnificent social media virtue signaling.

But those are just words. And on 75th and Stony Island, words are not enough.

Many in this African American neighborhood had worked desperately hard, for years, to bring full-service supermarkets to the food deserts of the South Side.

All they wanted was what the people who make their livings at home on laptops want:

A store with fresh meat, and baby formula that wasn’t out of date. A store with a pharmacy, and fresh vegetables, a safe place for the young and the old to shop. A store as symbol of better times ahead.


But now that it’s been looted, where will the mothers get the diapers and the baby food? Where will the seniors get medicine? An old woman who can no longer drive will just have to take a bus or two.

I asked a man I met on 75th Street, Avery Hardy.

“I don’t know where they’ll go, take a bus maybe, far if they can,” said Hardy, a kind, elderly gentleman. 

“We’ll have to help them somehow.”

I asked him: How? How do you find the mothers? How do you find the seniors who need insulin?

“I don’t know,” Mr. Hardy said and began to weep. “I just don’t know. I’m a good person. I raised my children to be good. They didn’t do this. They have their own homes, their own children. I look at this and I’m tired of this. I’m so tired of this.”

We were standing across the street from the store. The plywood boards were bright enough in the sun, but they didn’t gleam like those plate glass windows once did.

“I never thought I’d see this again,” he said, shaking his head. “All that looting.”

Police were in the store parking lot on Thursday, working on a case. But police weren’t there when the store was looted days ago, as protests over the Minneapolis police killing of George Floyd erupted into chaos all over Chicago.

Chicago’s mayor and Illinois’ governor were caught unprepared, and dispatched police to protect downtown. But police couldn’t protect it, violent factions hijacked the protests, and the destruction and looting began.

“They shouldn’t have done it,” said Mr. Hardy. “They did it because George Floyd got killed, because police put the knee in his neck and killed him. That’s not right. But this is really sickening.

“The one side is marching against the police, the other side was perpetrating looting, stealing stuff, then giving it away. I’ve seen this before years ago. I never wanted to see it again. I’m tired.”

Downtown Chicago will come back. There’s enough money and politics to drive a return to at least a version of itself, and we journalists will talk gushingly about renewal, and some of us will avoid mentioning all those moving out.

But what of 75th and Stony, the people who can’t run off to their lake house? What of people who don’t benefit from downtown glitz and media leverage?

I asked a young woman where her friends without cars will go to get the diapers and the baby food.

“They’re pretty much buying the diapers and the formula from the looters that sell the products and the merchandise,” she told me. “Some looters gave it away. But a lot are selling it back to people who need it.”

How do the black marketeers advertise their products?

“On social media,” she said. “Social media is what people do.”

The other day, a reader forwarded a Facebook video taken by a man named Robert Koko Walker. I unsuccessfully tried to reach him.

Walker took his video as the looting was tearing the store apart, crowds running in and pushing carts out, taking what they could, pushing boxes on the sidewalk when there were no carts, rolling display tubs and bins through the doors.

But there was also great moral courage.

Because in Walker’s video, as the looters ripped the store apart, other neighbors were trying to sweep broken glass from the parking lot.

A woman admonished the looters to stop. You could hear her voice from the parking lot, confronting the others. She was just a woman alone facing the mob.

She displayed more courage than any tough-talking politician with bodyguards, more courage than a columnist on a laptop.

“Stop!” she shouted at the looters. “We won’t have a grocery store! They’re not going to put it back in the community! We are not about this!”

Walker made his way around the parking lot and into the store. He was no fan of the looting.

“Look, half of them cleaning up, half of them taking (stuff). And police can’t do nothing,” he says. “Man, it looks like a war zone around here. For real. A war zone. And still, there’s good people cleaning up.

“I don’t even know what to say anymore. This makes no sense. And here’s the bad part. This time next week, where are they going to eat? They killed the stores … I’m a loss for words.”


But think of the good. Of all those good people cleaning up and of that brave woman alone, telling the looters to stop, and of Mr. Hardy saying he wanted to help.


U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25176
  • Liked:
Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2725 on: June 05, 2020, 12:33:21 PM »
The programs most republicans are against funding are the same programs that will help lower gang participation and crime rates.  That's the face palm aspect of this situation. 

I face palm this post, because you don't know what "most" republicans (whatever even that is) think.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

longhorn320

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Posts: 9313
  • Liked:
Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2726 on: June 05, 2020, 12:33:43 PM »
That is true, but gangs are emboldened by the drug war, which is REALLY hard to change policy at the city level. Some have done it [decriminalizing marijuana, for example], but if you want to remove the power from the gangs, you have to remove their market, and city politicians can't do that.

We talked several pages ago about why I think the structural political situation is difficult to overcome, because the elected official that goes against the police is not only going to forfeit campaign support from the unions, but will be shouted down as "soft on crime", which is the exact opposite of what those anti-gang black communities want. They want tough on gang-related crime but without killing innocent people in their communities as collateral damage.
my point is that everybody is yelling to defund the police when in fact the police is a tool used by elected city leaders

change needs to come from the citiy,s leaders not just the police department

and change needs to be facilitated by reducing the crime drugs and gangs 

defunding the police wont only not fix the problem but will elevate it

They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

OrangeAfroMan

  • Stats Porn
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18839
  • Liked:
Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2727 on: June 05, 2020, 12:36:38 PM »
I face palm this post, because you don't know what "most" republicans (whatever even that is) think.
I know how they vote....
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71459
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2728 on: June 05, 2020, 12:38:43 PM »
What is one example of a program that will reduce crime/gang rates that Republicans don't like?

Head Start?

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25176
  • Liked:
Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #2729 on: June 05, 2020, 12:39:04 PM »
I know how they vote....
No, you don't.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.