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Topic: 2018-2019 B1G Basketball Thread

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Entropy

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Re: 2018-2019 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #882 on: January 18, 2019, 10:15:13 AM »
Nebraska winning in Bloomington four days ago then losing at home to MSU last night is more support for the idea that we need a blank tier in between the Michigan Schools and everybody else.  

I'm planning on waiting until Tuesday to update the tiers but as of now I'm thinking (the #'s next to each team are massey composite computer rankings):
  • Michigan State 4, Michigan 5
  • BLANK
  • Maryland 17, Nebraska 18, Purdue 19
  • Wisconsin 26, Indiana 29, Iowa 30
  • Ohio State 33 (this assumes that the Buckeyes lose at home tonight to UMD)
  • Minnesota 42, Northwestern 61, Penn State 79
  • Rutgers 104, Illinois 132

I agree with this.  I'd also speculate by years end Maryland will be in the #2 spot.

ELA

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Re: 2018-2019 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #883 on: January 18, 2019, 10:23:49 AM »
Easier said than done... but the support is there.
That's the big deal.  Good (great?) coach, great facilities, great fan support.

The obstacles are history and local talent.  Can those things be overcome?  I don't know, and frankly they are outside of Nebraska's control.  But everything they can control seems to be set up well.

From MSU's standpoint, I think the most surprising thing is how they've finished in both road wins.  Down our two top wings, which also forces McQuaid to play exclusively at the 2, which means Winston is our only real PG, has forced him to play a ton, the freshmen to play more than they have, and walk ons to be called in to play in the first half.  MSU still has enough top end talent, that winning those games with both Langford and Ahrens out doesn't shock me, but they way they did does.  I would expect MSU to run out to leads and hold on, not get into 35 minutes of dog fights, and then somehow be the team with more in the tank in the final 5.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2018-2019 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #884 on: January 18, 2019, 10:35:19 AM »
Weird game. I believe at one point the announcers said Nebraska had missed 14 straight 3s. If you even hit 4 of those (<33%), that's 12 points. They were down 10 at the time. 

ELA

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Re: 2018-2019 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #885 on: January 18, 2019, 10:41:41 AM »
That's how MSU has largely been defending teams with McQuaid, and Langford when healthy.  Pack it in, give you nothing inside, and trust McQuaid to shut down your best shooter.  They did the same thing against Purdue, and McQuaid completely shut down Edwards, and yesterday shut down Palmer.  Both guys shot like crap, but both guys were absolutely forcing bad shots too.  Edwards is only 6'1", but how he did against the 6'6" Palmer gives me more hope about how he'll do against Matthews and Poole.  The question is will Langford be back by then, because neither Purdue or Nebraska was able to find a second option, they just kept forcing bad 3 pointers with their first option.

FearlessF

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Re: 2018-2019 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #886 on: January 18, 2019, 10:51:30 AM »
The Huskers top 6-7 players are good enough to compete in the BIG.  The drop off after that group is striking and has/will hurt the team when key players get into foul trouble.   UNL's D kept them in the game on a night of cold shooting.   How many 3's rattled in and out last night?  It happens...  Part of that is due to MSU's D and part of it to guys just missing open shots.   But physically, UNL was in that game.   
anything in the pipeline to replace Watson, Palmer, & Copeland after this season?
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

FearlessF

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Re: 2018-2019 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #887 on: January 18, 2019, 10:52:39 AM »
Weird game. I believe at one point the announcers said Nebraska had missed 14 straight 3s. If you even hit 4 of those (<33%), that's 12 points. They were down 10 at the time.
shouldn't be taking 14 threes, even if a few of them are rattling in - regardless of the defense
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2018-2019 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #888 on: January 18, 2019, 12:26:54 PM »
That's how MSU has largely been defending teams with McQuaid, and Langford when healthy.  Pack it in, give you nothing inside, and trust McQuaid to shut down your best shooter.  They did the same thing against Purdue, and McQuaid completely shut down Edwards, and yesterday shut down Palmer.  Both guys shot like crap, but both guys were absolutely forcing bad shots too.  Edwards is only 6'1", but how he did against the 6'6" Palmer gives me more hope about how he'll do against Matthews and Poole.  The question is will Langford be back by then, because neither Purdue or Nebraska was able to find a second option, they just kept forcing bad 3 pointers with their first option.
I'm interested to see Purdue at home vs MSU. I think the team, now that Williams is getting minutes, is starting to come together a lot more. Eastern has been becoming more aggressive on the offensive end, driving to the rim, which was highly necessary. And Edwards just tried to play hero ball and force everything against MSU, which I'm sure he'll scale things back after seeing how badly that worked against MSU the first time. 
While I don't expect Mackey to "rattle" anyone from MSU, I think the home advantage is still important, if nothing else than for Purdue's young players.
I think home vs MSU is still a game that even if we don't put a gap in the tiers, I think will still have MSU favored. Sagarin's predictor would still have MSU favored by 3-4 points on the road. But I think that if the team can play team basketball, beating MSU at home would not be an absurd shock either.

Entropy

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Re: 2018-2019 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #889 on: January 18, 2019, 12:49:04 PM »
anything in the pipeline to replace Watson, Palmer, & Copeland after this season?
a lot of concerns about your question from the fans... 

medinabuckeye1

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Re: 2018-2019 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #890 on: January 18, 2019, 12:59:56 PM »
I went ahead and updated it today, I'll continue to make adjustments as necessary.  The new-and-improved tiers are:
  • Michigan, Michigan State
  • BLANK
  • Purdue, Maryland, Nebraska
  • Indiana, Iowa, Wisconsin
  • Ohio State
  • Minnesota, Northwestern, Penn State
  • Illinois, Rutgers
Based on those tiers, upsets so far have been:
 
DateWon@/vLost
30-NovUW@IA
5-DecMNvUNL
3-JanMN@UW
9-JanRUvtOSU
11-JanPU@UW
14-JanUNL@IU
The updated projected final standings/seeds for the BTT are:
  • 19-1/30-1 Michigan (wins tiebreaker over MSU based on overall record against D1 opposition)
  • 19-1/28-3 Michigan State
  • 14-6/21-10 Purdue
  • 13-7/23-8 Nebraska (wins tiebreaker over UMD based on record against IA&UW)*
  • 13-7/22-9 Maryland  
  • 12-8/21-10 Indiana
  • 11-9/19-12 Wisconsin (wins tiebreaker over IA based on H2H, won in Iowa City)
  • 11-9/22-9 Iowa
  • 8-12/18-13 Ohio State
  • 5-15/14-17 Northwestern (wins tiebreaker over MN based on H2H, no game in Minneapolis)
  • 5-15/15-16 Minnesota
  • 4-16/8-23 Illinois (wins tiebreaker over RU based on H2H, no game in Picastaway)
  • 4-16/11-19 Rutgers
  • 2-18/9-22 Penn State

*This one was a REALLY complicated tiebreaker:
  • The first tiebreaker is H2H but these two teams play each other twice.  Maryland won in College Park on January 2 and we project Nebraska to win in Lincoln on February 6
  • The second tiebreaker is record against the two 19-1 schools but we project both to go 0-season against them.  
  • The third tiebreaker is record against Purdue but both schools play Purdue twice and are projected to go 1-1.  
  • The fourth tiebreaker is record against Indiana.  Nebraska doesn't host Indiana and Maryland doesn't visit Indiana so we would project Maryland to go 1-0 while Nebraska goes 0-1 against the Hoosiers and that would break the tie in favor of Maryland but Nebraska won at Indiana so both are projected to finish the season 1-0 against Indiana.  
  • The fifth tiebreaker is record against the two 11-9 schools (Iowa and Wisconsin).  Maryland doesn't host Iowa while Nebraska doesn't visit Wisconsin so we project Nebraska to go 2-1 while Maryland goes 1-2.  Thus, the tie breaks in favor of Nebraska.  

Based on all of that, the match-ups at the BTT in Chicago Illinois would be:

Wednesday, March 13:
  • #11 Minnesota vs #14 Penn State, 9pm on BTN
  • #12 Illinois vs #13 Rutgers, 6:30pm on BTN
Thursday, March 14 (Pi day!):
  • #5 Maryland vs MN/PSU, 3pm on BTN
  • #6 Indiana vs IL/RU, 9:30pm on BTN
  • #7 Wisconsin vs #10 Northwestern, 7pm on BTN
  • #8 Iowa vs #9 Ohio State, 12:30pm on BTN
Friday, March 15:
  • #1 Michigan vs IA/tOSU, 12:30pm on BTN
  • #2 Michigan State vs UW/NU, 7pm on BTN
  • #3 Purdue vs IU/IL/RU, 9:30pm on BTN
  • #4 Nebraska vs UMD/MN/PSU, 3pm on BTN
Saturday, March 16:
  • M/IA/tOSU vs UNL/UMD/MN/PSU, 1pm on CBS
  • MSU/UW/NU vs PU/IU/IL/RU, 3:30pm on CBS
Sunday, March 17:
  • M/IA/tOSU/UNL/UMD/MN/PSU vs MSU/UW/NU/PU/IU/IL/RU, 3:30pm on CBS

ELA

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Re: 2018-2019 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #891 on: January 18, 2019, 01:03:09 PM »
The one thing I love about the 2 seed, is that it's ideal for viewing.

I'd be very ok with a Big Ten title and a 2 seed.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: 2018-2019 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #892 on: January 18, 2019, 01:19:05 PM »
The one thing I love about the 2 seed, is that it's ideal for viewing.

I'd be very ok with a Big Ten title and a 2 seed.
My take, based on years of experience is that the worst one for viewing is the 4/5/11/14:
  • The 5 vs 11/14 game is Thursday at 3pm.  It is too early to get out of work for it and too late for lunch.  
  • The 4 vs 5/11/14 game is Friday at 3pm.  Same problem.  

I agree with you that the 2/7/10 is just about ideal for viewing:
  • The 7/10 game is Thursday evening.  
  • The 2 vs 7/10 game is Friday evening.  

IMHO, the 3/6/12/13 is even better:
  • The 12/13 game is Wednesday evening.  
  • The 6 vs 12/13 game is late Thursday evening.  
  • The 3 vs 6/12/13 game is late Friday evening.  

I also don't mind the 1/8/9 schedule:
  • The 8/9 game is a little after noon on Thursday.  I can usually schedule my lunch to at least see the second half.  
  • The 1 vs 8/9 game is a little after noon on Friday.  Same thing.  

FearlessF

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Re: 2018-2019 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #893 on: January 18, 2019, 01:44:09 PM »
a lot of concerns about your question from the fans...
that's what I thought
it's this season or nothing
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2018-2019 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #894 on: January 18, 2019, 03:45:09 PM »
So I created a spreadsheet to track game predictions based on the Sagarin rating system. It's a pretty simple rating system for predictions. Take the home team's rating, subtract the visiting team's rating, add the home court advantage adjustment [he currently uses 3.10], and the result is basically his prediction of the home team's point spread. 

Just wanted to be able to compare that quickly and easily with our own system. 

Attached is what I've got. Basically if the number is negative [and highlighted yellow], the AWAY team wins. Which is a little confusing, because when you read your "home" record, yellow is negative, while when you read your "away" record, yellow is positive. But it is what it is. 

It shows Purdue (in a double-round robin) with a 17-9 record, with home losses to MSU and Michigan, and away losses to IU, MD, M, MSU, UNL, OSU, and UW. 

The new tier systems shows Purdue with a 19-7 record, with home losses to MSU and M, and away losses to M, MSU, MD, UNL, UW, IU, Iowa.

Essentially the only places it disagrees are Iowa and Ohio State. And it's close. It has Iowa as a 0.65 point dog over Purdue at Iowa. It has Ohio State as a 0.54 point favorite over Purdue at home. Given that Iowa is the weakest Tier 3 team we show, and Ohio State is the strongest [well, only] Tier 4 team we show, that looks pretty close to what we'd think.

It does have MSU as a 25-1 record. It actually only has MSU as a 0.11 point dog on the road at Michigan. Which for two teams both in Tier 1, seems like a decent gap. 

It has Michigan at 24-2, though, also losing on the road at Nebraska, and VERY close against Purdue, with Michigan only a 0.25 point favorite in West Laf. 

Just thought I'd pass this along. I've got the spreadsheet set up so that all I need to do is upload 14 numbers from the Sagarin rankings and the rest will automatically update.

If anyone believes 3.10 points is not a sufficient HCA in the B1G, though, let me know. I can change that number as well, and it'll probably make some significant changes to the outcome. 


FearlessF

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Re: 2018-2019 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #895 on: January 18, 2019, 03:47:41 PM »

It has Michigan at 24-2, though, also losing on the road at Nebraska, and VERY close against Purdue, with Michigan only a 0.25 point favorite in West Laf.



perfect!
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

 

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