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Topic: Huepal gone?

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Drew4UTk

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Huepal gone?
« on: November 28, 2021, 11:15:27 PM »
He's #1 on the list to replace Riley at OU.

Is this a replay of Lame Kitten?

I'd hate to see him go if he does.  This one will sting more than any other, pretty much ever.  If he stays, I'm thinking it's clear we have our man.... finally. 
« Last Edit: November 28, 2021, 11:25:11 PM by Drew4UTk »

Gigem

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Re: Huepal gone?
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2021, 07:55:18 AM »
OU fired him as OC once before. I don’t see it happening. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Huepal gone?
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2021, 08:27:04 AM »
My question about these hurry up frenetic offenses is whether a team has even won the NC with that strategy or even gotten to the CFP.  Every team goes hurry at times, Oklahoma does a fair bit, but nearly every play?  I'm not sure.

But it starts with recruiting.  You can have an atypical offense like say Paul Johnson and win some games, but I don't think you ever get to the elite level with it, without elite recruiting.  And elite recruiting is of course necessary but not sufficient.

Maybe CFB changes and most teams for for a fast paced style, that also is possible.  Most, today, strike me as trying to compensate for having inferior overall talent.  At least it's exciting.

Drew4UTk

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Re: Huepal gone?
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2021, 11:31:46 AM »
it was MOSTLY about hurry offense, but it wasn't ALL about HUNH.... and yes, it is a gimmick but a highly functional one when the D doesn't flop to get a breath (and the O catches the right D components on the field and exploit it).  

Are you to suggest a team shouldn't use it because no NCG team has ever used it?  That's a crazy statement from a progressive and one i wouldn't expect.  the game is ALL about evolution.  

to be clear, i don't like it... it invites injury for the team using it.  if the D doesn't have a lot of depth it invites offensive shootouts which gives more opportunity for happenstance/intangibles to take over such as tipped and intercepted balls, weird bounces, who gets the coin toss, ect.  the better teams stocked nicely don't need the gimmick, and the elite teams can walk to the line and announce for all to hear what play they're going to run and dare someone to stop it.  

but... 

when that's what you got that's what you got.  and it works.  once UT gets stocked up on players, and if the coach continues along this trajectory, i could see it being used enough but not as drastically.  having a separation receiver changes the need/requirement... having a power runner behind a beefy line changes the requirement.... CJH worked with what he had this season, and i still suspect that is still a feature of his intended O, but perhaps not as dramatic as it was in this season... 

Drew4UTk

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Re: Huepal gone?
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2021, 11:36:16 AM »
OU fired him as OC once before. I don’t see it happening.
the beef was between him and Stoops as i understand it... stoops is obviously still highly engaged in the happenings at OU else he wouldn't be coaching the next couple of games... IF they go after him it would basically be saying "we fired this guy to give O reigns to Riley, but now we need him back- our second choice"... 

i don't think he goes, but i hope he doesn't even more- meaning, i'm thinking if he's approached it'll be a close thing and leaning more towards he would... it's his alma-mater... that's a hard position to be in.  

Cincydawg

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Re: Huepal gone?
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2021, 11:37:42 AM »
If I had my way, we'd run the single wing.

It's possible nearly everyone migrates to hurry up, I don't know, obviously if some team has repeated high level success that would be expected.  I think we need a rule change on injured players.

I thought the Vols played hard against UGA, something I was not seeing as much earlier.  That to me is a mark of a good coach, one item.  It becomes obvious when a team goes soft or does a Florida.

Drew4UTk

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Re: Huepal gone?
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2021, 12:01:08 PM »
overthrow joe the flat footed mile slinger was an early problem, and i'm mighty thankful hooker was there to jump in.  the hype around that kid is not warranted.  

here will be an unpopular comment: freakin JG WAS THE ISSUE with UT since freakin' Jones left... i swear, on an aside, there was some sort of 'deal' between his daddy and the school as drafted up by Jones that he would play.  NO COACH IN THE WORLD would have left him in there as long as they did... they said "well, he's the best we got" and that was straight BS... snapping directly to a runner ala wildcat or transitioning the receiver (who was a HS QB) to the role would have been better.  and, it's curious how the wheels came off when that kid was finally sat down- allegations and reports of pay-for-play just as soon as that shit head announced his departure.  

that ONE component destroyed that team... i truly don't think they would have been NEAR as bad on O without him.  I also believe that issue misrepresented the team, making them appear much worse than they were.  I'm not saying they were good, but they weren't THAT bad.  I'm thinking they would have been on par with UK (which benefits from schedule every year- when they meet their betters it's always late, whereas UT meets them early to mid).  

i like hooker... he's a good kid and good QB... but i still think the potential wasn't met this season... a few more receivers (one being a blazer) and a QB big enough to take hits and fast enough to evade (sorta like the kid that just hit the portal CJH recruited at UCF) and then, maybe, we will see the real potential of this kind of offense.  the portal should have a lot of choices this offseason, from LSU, from OU, from USC, from UF... maybe even from tOSU and perhaps even from Bama... that portal takes a lot of heat off the recruiting trade for a rebuilding team.  i'm thinking that'll be how UT gets back in the mix.  they are a distance from UF, UGA, Bama, but not that far at all from others.  

but... ALL OF THAT... only if CJH stays put.  

MikeDeTiger

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Re: Huepal gone?
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2021, 12:23:06 PM »
2019 lsu used hurry-up a LOT.  Pretty much standard in favorable down and distance.  Seemed to work.  It wasn't the foundation of the offense but it was another tool to kick a defense right in the nuts.  

Cincydawg

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Re: Huepal gone?
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2021, 01:43:44 PM »
UGA uses it at times, but selectively, and not often of course.  I think it can catch the D off balance if it shows up unexpectedly.  If you do it routinely the D practices all week and is ready for it (and taking a soccer fall).  It's a bit like the Paul Johnson offense, unusual, and time consuming on preparation, but not unexpected.  But if you don't have the horses you need something.

MikeDeTiger

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Re: Huepal gone?
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2021, 05:50:40 PM »
I dunno...  That team had the horses and I'm sure everybody prepared for it.  That doesn't negate the advantage of not allowing a defense to substitute.  It wasn't the main thing that defenses had trouble with, but I'd wager it added some efficiency to the unit overall.  Sometimes you can wear them down on a drive, but mainly it was about not letting them change to personnel they'd rather switch into once they see the development of the possession.  

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Huepal gone?
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2021, 06:22:58 PM »
If Heupel leaves, I will cry laughing.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Drew4UTk

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Re: Huepal gone?
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2021, 06:23:44 PM »
I dunno...  That team had the horses and I'm sure everybody prepared for it.  That doesn't negate the advantage of not allowing a defense to substitute.  It wasn't the main thing that defenses had trouble with, but I'd wager it added some efficiency to the unit overall.  Sometimes you can wear them down on a drive, but mainly it was about not letting them change to personnel they'd rather switch into once they see the development of the possession. 
yessir that is the point of the system- it's not to try to out athlete the defense, it's about catching them with mismatched components and then exploiting it as quick as possible.  

boise state did it... their entire process was to at least threaten every square inch of the field instead of "just" the lanes.  Bama does it another way by stacking trips on one side and forcing mano-a-mano on their separation receiver, but that isn't exclusive to just bama a lot of teams use that and they trigger it most often when they catch the D with the wrong components... the spread option appears to be a very different offense, but it's really not- it's pretty fundamental- but it relies on gapping the lanes and forcing a defensive player, linemen in particular, to work in space as opposed to being expected to control an O lineman homself working in a "hallway".  

since we're speaking about CJH's Offense, what it is i 'think' he wants to run when he loads up the components is something like the 'greatest show on turf'- with layered parallel or crossing routes over timing - the player ahead effectively becoming a blocker as he jams up the other secondary/CB--- close enough to be a pick play to be called a pick play but not exactly--.  forcing the D to play mano-a-mano or man-zone being the key and then picking on the weak link/bad match up. 

we've seen very lopsided final scores in games over the years where we were certain the teams were evenly matched prior, and write off the other (losing) team afterward, but even a little analysis demonstrates the OC of the winning team either discovered a bad match up OR created a bad matchup through scheme.  the HUNH, on face value, is about stressing the physical conditioning... but that isn't it at all imHo, it's more about drawing out the components, stressing them, allowing them to be exchanged and as soon as they are caught with an exploit- exploiting the piss out of it.  

there are literally hundreds of examples of this... @MikeDeTiger may recall and SECCG between UT and LSU where UT didn't have an answer to the relief QB who pulled a Cuttingham of Eagles fame and either passed deep or scrambled- and won that game... or another between the same schools where Kelly Washington was the UT receiver who had something like 274yds receiving against what was considered a very good LSU D... all they 'really' did was scheme where Washington was covered by a LB and then lit him up... when they'd drop a CB or Safety on Washington they opened up the run or a pass to another receiver.  a bad matchup was discovered and 60 minutes wasn't enough time to figure it out.  


so... that's a lot of writing^... the point being the HUNH as employed by CJH is intent to stress the D into subbing, and then catching the right D on the field before lighting them up... and that WILL happen, I don't care who you are.. which is why his O scores as much as they do.  Right now the O he staffs is thin, as soon as it isn't, either at UT or OU (toi toi), there will have to be some sort of Defensive Revolution to stop it.  Right now the trick is flopping.  

gimmick? perhaps... the west coast o was called that once.. so was the option spread or just plain spread.. play action was called that once and so was the RTP... 

Drew4UTk

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Re: Huepal gone?
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2021, 06:27:27 PM »
If Heupel leaves, I will cry laughing. 
one of the key differences between you and i is i WANT to catch the gators at their best, or UGA at their best, or any team 'we' play at their best... and i want 'our' team to be at their best- and win.  if they don't win? they were just plain beat and good for the victor... beating up someone when they're down is bullyish.  bullies are pussies who thrive at feeding on the weak so they can brag about it.    

Cincydawg

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Re: Huepal gone?
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2021, 07:41:06 PM »
I dunno...  That team had the horses and I'm sure everybody prepared for it.  That doesn't negate the advantage of not allowing a defense to substitute.  It wasn't the main thing that defenses had trouble with, but I'd wager it added some efficiency to the unit overall.  Sometimes you can wear them down on a drive, but mainly it was about not letting them change to personnel they'd rather switch into once they see the development of the possession. 
You can prevent subs with a fairly deliberate offense, you just need to be at the line after the play if over.  You can still run some clock.  If they sub, snap the ball.

You don't even need to be set if they run off a defender and you get them set a second.

 

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