CFB51 College Football Fan Community

The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: Mdot21 on December 05, 2022, 03:02:05 PM

Title: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on December 05, 2022, 03:02:05 PM
Ohio State star WR Jaxon Smith-Njigba declares for NFL draft, won't suit up in the CFP. On some level it kinda sense, he's a 1st rd lock and has had hamstring issue all year long. 

Florida QB Anthony Richardson declares for the NFL draft, which makes no sense to me. I doubt he'll even get drafted. Florida also had DT Gavon Dexter declare- which makes sense he'll be a drafted pretty high I think. Florida also had star OL O'Cyrus Torrence declare for the draft- which also makes sense as he's high up on the interior OL draft boards. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on December 05, 2022, 04:18:24 PM
https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2023-nfl-draft-board-big-board
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on December 05, 2022, 04:23:00 PM
this is big news for Washington...

https://twitter.com/PFF_College/status/1599601314589454336?s=20&t=FfcXxv7MB9uBQ579lqPtTQ
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on December 05, 2022, 04:23:57 PM
https://twitter.com/PFF_College/status/1599481027361378304?s=20&t=FfcXxv7MB9uBQ579lqPtTQ
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 05, 2022, 05:03:42 PM

Florida QB Anthony Richardson declares for the NFL draft, which makes no sense to me. I doubt he'll even get drafted. Florida also had DT Gavon Dexter declare- which makes sense he'll be a drafted pretty high I think. Florida also had star OL O'Cyrus Torrence declare for the draft- which also makes sense as he's high up on the interior OL draft boards.
Richardson leaving early is utter nonsense.  He grew up in the Uncle Rico "Want to see me throw the ball over that mountain" school of quarterbacking with that Milton kid.  CANNOT throw a simple slant route. 
Either he's getting some baaaaad info or NFL GMs really are as stupid as we think. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on December 05, 2022, 05:24:58 PM
Richardson leaving early is utter nonsense.  He grew up in the Uncle Rico "Want to see me throw the ball over that moutain" school of quarterbacking with that Milton kid.  CANNOT throw a simple slant route. 
Either he's getting some baaaaad info or NFL GMs really are as stupid as we think. 
Joe Milton is a great comp for Richardson. They are honestly very similar players. Milton might be the most physically talented talented QB that I've ever seen at Michigan. 6'5, 250 pounds- built like an Adonis, plus athleticism, mobile, could really run and one of the strongest arms I've ever seen....yet couldn't go through his progressions and read a defense and was woefully inaccurate...threw every ball high, behind, low, or 10 yards away from the WR. 

Guys like this would've been top 10 Draft picks in the 70s or 80s or hell even 90s. The way the game is played today....they'll be lucky to even get drafted. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on December 05, 2022, 09:05:18 PM
Not the worst decision made recently by a UF QB
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 06, 2022, 12:36:50 AM
The difference in these poor decisions to leave early now is that Richardson can make money while at Florida.  It's not a poor house/rich house situation like it used to be.
I know he went to Eastside HS in Gainesville, which is the poor side of town.  But that shouldn't be an issue today.  
It's just extra stupid now.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on December 06, 2022, 01:27:30 AM
The difference in these poor decisions to leave early now is that Richardson can make money while at Florida.  It's not a poor house/rich house situation like it used to be.
I know he went to Eastside HS in Gainesville, which is the poor side of town.  But that shouldn't be an issue today. 
It's just extra stupid now.
this is actually a great point. have to think the starting QB at Florida could make A LOT of $$$$$ in NIL deals. maybe even more than he could make as a 6th or 7th round draft pick. didn't Bryce Young make like $3+ million already in 3 years? not saying Richardson is Bryce Young- but he could be making some serious $$$$$$ as the starting QB at a big time SEC program. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on December 14, 2022, 02:11:19 PM
ESPN's Draft "expert" Todd McShay latest mock draft has Ohio State QB CJ Stroud going to the Detroit Lions with the Rams' #4 overall pick.

Not sure I like that pick. I'd rather keep rolling with Goff and take Jalen Carter or Will Anderson Jr there. Whichever they can get, but preferably Jalen Carter. Detroit's defense is getting better but still needs lot of help.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: rolltidefan on December 14, 2022, 03:21:54 PM
this is actually a great point. have to think the starting QB at Florida could make A LOT of $$$$$ in NIL deals. maybe even more than he could make as a 6th or 7th round draft pick. didn't Bryce Young make like $3+ million already in 3 years? not saying Richardson is Bryce Young- but he could be making some serious $$$$$$ as the starting QB at a big time SEC program.
bryce is a bad comparison for virtually any cfb player for nil. he's the first one to get the nil benefits of a heisman while in school. and aside from the direct effect of being eligible to be in the nissan heisman house commercials, it very likely gave him a massive leg up on getting in the dr pepper commercials.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on February 16, 2023, 04:42:47 PM
Florida QB Anthony Richardson declares for the NFL draft, which makes no sense to me. I doubt he'll even get drafted.
Todd McShays updated mock has him going #9 to the Panthers.  I was on the fence with the Lions taking him with the second of their two 2nd round picks (#55).  And even then, I wasn't totally sold.  #9?  Yikes
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: rook119 on February 17, 2023, 01:42:28 PM
ESPN's Draft "expert" Todd McShay latest mock draft has Ohio State QB CJ Stroud going to the Detroit Lions with the Rams' #4 overall pick.

Not sure I like that pick. I'd rather keep rolling with Goff and take Jalen Carter or Will Anderson Jr there. Whichever they can get, but preferably Jalen Carter. Detroit's defense is getting better but still needs lot of help.
When Goff had an OL and a running game he almost won a SB. Problem is the salaries for middle of the road QBs is 35-40M year.   

Offer Goff a 3yr/75M extension (heck make it all guarenteed) and just tell him if he doesn't take it just tell him fine we'll get someone else.  

This is what Seattle should do w/ Geno as well. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: rook119 on February 17, 2023, 01:54:56 PM
Todd McShays updated mock has him going #9 to the Panthers.  I was on the fence with the Lions taking him with the second of their two 2nd round picks (#55).  And even then, I wasn't totally sold.  #9?  Yikes

He's going to fall. Guys like McShay listen way too much to front offices. Tomlin stopped just short of calling Mailk Willis the greatest QB prospect in the history of mankind. How he said that w/ a straight face is why he's a genius. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 17, 2023, 06:38:39 PM
Todd McShays updated mock has him going #9 to the Panthers.  I was on the fence with the Lions taking him with the second of their two 2nd round picks (#55).  And even then, I wasn't totally sold.  #9?  Yikes
I think some jackwagon on CBSsports has Richardson going #1.  I'm SURE it's for clicks/eyeballs, but still.
The kid is basically a superman, but he ain't hitting that 6-yard slant route.  
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on February 22, 2023, 12:32:54 AM
MSU offensive lineman goes 1-1 in the USFL draft, and the Tweet they put out is him holding.  God speed Michigan Panthers

https://twitter.com/USFLPanthers/status/1628094973974564864?t=Plavs9tGd2uofTD2fOX9Cw&s=19
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on March 03, 2023, 06:44:41 PM
Michigan CB DJ Turner checked in at 5'11"+ and ripped off a 4.26 in the 40 at the NFL combine. Fastest time so far and 5th fastest official time all-time. His ball skills stink, he's a decent tackler for a CB but not a big hitter nor a tackling machine like say an Antoine Winfield, but he's officially measured in at a tick under 6 ft and ran a sub 4.3. He's probably going to wind up getting drafted way higher now than he should be.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: MarqHusker on March 03, 2023, 11:04:16 PM
Bruce Pickens 2.0
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 04, 2023, 01:45:25 AM
The 2006 Raiders will snag him.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2023, 09:04:07 PM
and Trey Palmer
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on March 05, 2023, 12:15:43 AM
The fact that the combine is televised is sad.  NFL teams shouldn't care, let alone fans 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on March 05, 2023, 12:23:23 AM
Damn, MSU is one 4* TE recruit away from being the funny part of this video

https://twitter.com/jontweetssports/status/1632174794551570436?t=WdeR8rT5KLZ4XA3RVfK5KQ&s=19
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 05, 2023, 03:02:20 AM
Anthony Richardson sets QB record for vertical jump and long jump.
But that's not the biggest WOW:
He tied for the 4th-fasted 40 time.....@ 244 lbs.
The other 4 QB's weights that ran as fast or faster:  198, 223, 200, 199.
.
Soooooo he runs an official 4.43, can leap out of the building, is built like a shit brickhouse....and can throw the ball 80+ yards. 
That damn 6-yard slant route, though......
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2023, 08:04:10 AM
be a great NFL TE
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on March 05, 2023, 08:09:23 AM
The 2006 Raiders will snag him.
with the #1 overall pick...lol
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on March 05, 2023, 08:11:41 AM
The fact that the combine is televised is sad.  NFL teams shouldn't care, let alone fans
yep. kinda crazy how NFL teams draft dudes way higher than they should just based off of workouts in t-shirts and shorts or downgrade a player just bc of a bad workout. and they never seem to learn their lesson.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2023, 08:12:34 AM
it's only money
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on March 05, 2023, 08:15:05 AM
Damn, MSU is one 4* TE recruit away from being the funny part of this video

https://twitter.com/jontweetssports/status/1632174794551570436?t=WdeR8rT5KLZ4XA3RVfK5KQ&s=19
Dude is a freak of nature. Think he's going to be the next Gronk if he gets with a legit QB. Most of the celebrated TE's in the NFL over the last 25 years can't block for sh&t and are just glorified flex WRs. Gronk was a unicorn in that he was an absolutely dominant receiver AND blocker. Washington has that same type of potential to be a devastating, dominating blocker and an unguardable pass catcher. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on March 05, 2023, 08:18:33 AM
Anthony Richardson sets QB record for vertical jump and long jump.
But that's not the biggest WOW:
He tied for the 4th-fasted 40 time.....@ 244 lbs.
The other 4 QB's weights that ran as fast or faster:  198, 223, 200, 199.
.
Soooooo he runs an official 4.43, can leap out of the building, is built like a shit brickhouse....and can throw the ball 80+ yards. 
That damn 6-yard slant route, though......
if only QB's didn't have to speed read defenses and make split second good decisions on the fly and throw the ball accurately consistently....this dude would be something.

I'd draft him in like the 5th or 6th rd and move him to RB or Flex TE if I was an NFL GM. Worth a shot. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on March 05, 2023, 08:25:09 AM
in what everyone already knew already anyway...Bryce Young isn't the 6 ft Bama lists him at. Checks in at the combine at 5'10". Why do these schools insist on listing BS heights and weights on their official rosters lol? CJ Stroud checked in at 6'3". I think Stroud is going to be the first QB taken off the board.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2023, 08:43:37 AM
CJ would be my first pick

be a great replacement for Kirk Cousins
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2023, 08:45:02 AM
Dude is a freak of nature. Think he's going to be the next Gronk if he gets with a legit QB. Most of the celebrated TE's in the NFL over the last 25 years can't block for sh&t and are just glorified flex WRs. Gronk was a unicorn in that he was an absolutely dominant receiver AND blocker. Washington has that same type of potential to be a devastating, dominating blocker and an unguardable pass catcher.
the next great Left Tackle
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 05, 2023, 11:50:01 AM
Damn, MSU is one 4* TE recruit away from being the funny part of this video

https://twitter.com/jontweetssports/status/1632174794551570436?t=WdeR8rT5KLZ4XA3RVfK5KQ&s=19
To be fair, his technique is garbage.  The other TEs are using quick, choppy steps because that's how you're supposed to do it. 
Washington's big, slow steps, while impressive, are not how you're taught to block. 
.
When a defender tries to do a move, you want to have your next step/touching the ground immediately to take advantage.  You don't want to be waiting for your next step to happen, you lose any advantage you may have had.
.
The 2nd guy is how it "should" look, but he should have had a flatter back, to avoid raising the sled too high.
Mayer, the last guy, just lacks strength. 
So while Washington is probably big and strong enough to get away with imperfect technique....there's a reason he was UGA's backup TE.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on March 05, 2023, 12:24:31 PM
yep. kinda crazy how NFL teams draft dudes way higher than they should just based off of workouts in t-shirts and shorts or downgrade a player just bc of a bad workout. and they never seem to learn their lesson.
As Jimmy Johnston used to tell all the so called talent gurus that would be slobbering over the freakish numbers repeatedly -
Jimmy did you see his 40 times                           "Ya but can he play"
Jimmy did you see his long jump                        "Ya but can he play"
Jimmy did you see his multiple bench presses           "Ya but can he play"
Jimmy did you see his high jump                             "Ya but can he play"
Jimmy did you see his obstacle course time              "Ya but can he play"
Jimmy did you see his  Wonderlic Score                 "Ya but can he play"

"Ya but can he play"
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2023, 12:48:59 PM
So while Washington is probably big and strong enough to get away with imperfect technique....there's a reason he was UGA's backup TE.
could be his wonderlic assessment
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 06, 2023, 12:53:31 AM
I tend to think it's probably because freak athletes like him can dominate certain levels of play w/o being fundamentally great and also because their starting TE is one of the 5 best players in the country.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on March 06, 2023, 05:48:30 AM
So while Washington is probably big and strong enough to get away with imperfect technique....there's a reason he was UGA's backup TE.
He played a lot of downs, and there is another reason he was not their Number One TE.  

He was played as a major matchup problem more than as a target.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on March 06, 2023, 05:51:02 AM
Every year, we see athletes with superb "measureables" who don't pan out.  And I notice often folks around here know it ahead of time.

They are akin to a pitcher with a 98 mph fastball and no control.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on March 06, 2023, 07:34:51 AM
Sid Finch
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: CatsbyAZ on March 06, 2023, 11:02:15 AM
I think some jackwagon on CBSsports has Richardson going #1.  I'm SURE it's for clicks/eyeballs, but still.
The kid is basically a superman, but he ain't hitting that 6-yard slant route. 

The combine is only driving Richardson’s hype higher. Weird how I can watch as many Gators games as I do and never once find anything in Richardson’s play that translates to potential success in the NFL. Leave it to one dumb GM to spend a high draft pick on Richardson anyway. We talked in another thread on how ADs time and time again get away with very costly contract extensions which quite often seem more about serving hype than positioning the program for better results.

I’m always surprised to see GMs similarly serve hype rather than process through the layers of context around college prospects as part of making a careful decision. For instance, when it comes to drafting QBs, was the prospect an accurate passer? If NO, move on. If yes, than was the offense overhauled to raise accuracy? Keep in mind Tebow threw for a 67% college accuracy with an offense was redesigned around his blind spots. If not, and the prospect kept his numbers high regardless of what went on around him, that’s a QB for whom I’d like to study more game tape, interview, workout, etc. Deshaun Watson is an example where the game tape puts his combine numbers to rest.

The GMs that won’t/can’t do this really stand out as individuals holding jobs they are in no way qualified for. And across the working world there are A LOT of individuals working positions well beyond their capacity.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on March 06, 2023, 11:16:18 AM
I've stated before this forum could come up with an impressive player personnel/talent evaluation here as we follow the collegiate game. Here we watched Bill Bellichik when he was with the Browns pull the most ignorant picks one could imagine. They all seemed to be projects that he thought he could develop. The guys cornbread isn't done all the way thru,good Xs & Os guy though
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: bayareabadger on March 06, 2023, 11:26:49 AM

So while Washington is probably big and strong enough to get away with imperfect technique....there's a reason he was UGA's backup TE.
Because the guy playing ahead of him is extremely excellent?
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on March 06, 2023, 11:35:05 AM
Was Washington the #2 guy?, cause I heard they ran two TE sets and he played many snaps
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 06, 2023, 11:36:23 AM
I tend to think it's probably because freak athletes like him can dominate certain levels of play w/o being fundamentally great and also because their starting TE is one of the 5 best players in the country.
And sometimes those freak athletes are in for a RUDE awakening when they get to a higher level of competition--such as the NFL--and realize that the guy on the other side of the LOS is just as much of a freak athlete as himself, but also has excellent fundamentals. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on March 06, 2023, 11:52:03 AM
Was Washington the #2 guy?, cause I heard they ran two TE sets and he played many snaps
They did run a lot of 12 formations, but Bowers got most of the targets.  Darnell was basically a guy you had to try and cover with a safety somehow pulling coverage away from others  He did play a LOT, I'd call him 1b with 1a.

I never know how someone will play in the NFL though, a lot hinges on where he goes and injuries of course.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: bayareabadger on March 06, 2023, 03:21:36 PM
And sometimes those freak athletes are in for a RUDE awakening when they get to a higher level of competition--such as the NFL--and realize that the guy on the other side of the LOS is just as much of a freak athlete as himself, but also has excellent fundamentals.
I mean, doesn’t that happen to most everyone when they get to the NFL? Even the kids with good fundamentals run into better older players who also have good fundamentals.

I don’t know if he will be good or not, but the criticism here seems to be mostly based on a workout? Which I’m told his bad. And I did watch him kick ass playing actual football, which seems like it would be a good barometer?

Not to mention that Washington’s teammates ain’t exactly 2-star athletes. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 06, 2023, 04:18:34 PM
I mean, doesn’t that happen to most everyone when they get to the NFL? Even the kids with good fundamentals run into better older players who also have good fundamentals.

I don’t know if he will be good or not, but the criticism here seems to be mostly based on a workout? Which I’m told his bad. And I did watch him kick ass playing actual football, which seems like it would be a good barometer?

Not to mention that Washington’s teammates ain’t exactly 2-star athletes. 
Well, I think that there are a lot of players at lower levels who get by with freak athleticism and don't put in the effort on fundamentals because they're lazy and they're successful without it. Eventually you run into someone who has both. And the NFL is full of those people. Because the lazy ones get weeded out (or sack up and learn the fundamentals). 

I'm not really speaking about Washington in particular. I think this is a common thing seen across sports, so I was thinking more of the general case. 

As for Washington, I can't really claim either way. OAM is a former OL, and I'm not. So I'll stipulate for the point of discussion that he is correct. If so, Washington might need to work on that to be successful at the next level. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Riffraft on March 06, 2023, 05:37:14 PM
The combine is only driving Richardson’s hype higher. Weird how I can watch as many Gators games as I do and never once find anything in Richardson’s play that translates to potential success in the NFL. Leave it to one dumb GM to spend a high draft pick on Richardson anyway. We talked in another thread on how ADs time and time again get away with very costly contract extensions which quite often seem more about serving hype than positioning the program for better results.

I’m always surprised to see GMs similarly serve hype rather than process through the layers of context around college prospects as part of making a careful decision. For instance, when it comes to drafting QBs, was the prospect an accurate passer? If NO, move on. If yes, than was the offense overhauled to raise accuracy? Keep in mind Tebow threw for a 67% college accuracy with an offense was redesigned around his blind spots. If not, and the prospect kept his numbers high regardless of what went on around him, that’s a QB for whom I’d like to study more game tape, interview, workout, etc. Deshaun Watson is an example where the game tape puts his combine numbers to rest.

The GMs that won’t/can’t do this really stand out as individuals holding jobs they are in no way qualified for. And across the working world there are A LOT of individuals working positions well beyond their capacity.

Only issue with what you said (and I agree with you) is Josh Allen.  His accuracy in Gollege was not good, which he why I was against the Browns drafting him that year.  I guess he is the expection that proves the rule. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 06, 2023, 06:52:51 PM
NFL GMs seem to always be grasping for the exceptions.  The argument FOR it is that all 10-year NFL starting players are exceptional.  
The argument against it is that no matter where you pick or how smart you are, those exceptional players are rare and hard to find.  
.
I don't feel like I was criticizing Washington, just discussed 1 short video and said he's a backup (yes, 1b) to one of the best players in the country.  Just discussion, not being harsh or anything.
.
With his physical gifts, great coaching could make him a terror for defenses.  
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: bayareabadger on March 06, 2023, 10:41:56 PM
Well, I think that there are a lot of players at lower levels who get by with freak athleticism and don't put in the effort on fundamentals because they're lazy and they're successful without it. Eventually you run into someone who has both. And the NFL is full of those people. Because the lazy ones get weeded out (or sack up and learn the fundamentals).

I'm not really speaking about Washington in particular. I think this is a common thing seen across sports, so I was thinking more of the general case.

As for Washington, I can't really claim either way. OAM is a former OL, and I'm not. So I'll stipulate for the point of discussion that he is correct. If so, Washington might need to work on that to be successful at the next level.
Gotcha. 

I think there's a near universality to that.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: rook119 on March 06, 2023, 11:06:48 PM
If there is one position where "measurables" seem to pan out its CB.

I always wanted to see a 6'4" combine freak play corner. And if we are drafting dudes for "upside" wouldn't this make Richardson's ceiling a bigger and just as fast version of Rod Woodson?
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 07, 2023, 12:47:25 AM
6'4" guys can be as fast as 6' guys, or even faster over long sprint distances (a la Usain Bolt), but they can't be as quick/agile.  No matter the freakishness, longer limbs take longer to change direction in a small space. 
I'm saying this because while we have 6'4" WRs, CBs have to be better than WRs.  
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on March 07, 2023, 02:42:41 AM
How many of the great/near great QBs in the NFL showed up great in the Combine/Wonderlic?

Shirley, someone has looked at the analytics of this.

How many great college QBs excel at the evals and then fade?
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Kris60 on March 07, 2023, 06:45:24 AM
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-combine-2023-west-virginia-wr-accomplishes-combine-feat-matched-by-only-two-players-including-dk-metcalf/

Here’s the WR version of Richardson.  Off the chart workout numbers but the pesky part of playing receiver, catching the ball, sometimes plagued him.  Some WVU fans are blaming Neal Brown’s lousy offense for Wheaton’s lack of production.  There is probably some truth in that, but he also had opportunities to make plays and just didn’t.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on March 07, 2023, 07:38:15 AM
playmakers make plays
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on March 07, 2023, 08:52:59 AM
How in your opinion is the best college player ever to be a near bust in the NFL (aside from injury)?

Probably some QB I'm thinking.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 07, 2023, 07:03:08 PM
Pick a Heisman-winner on that one.
I probably don't follow what guys do in the NFL enough to answer that well.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Kris60 on March 08, 2023, 06:37:20 AM
How in your opinion is the best college player ever to be a near bust in the NFL (aside from injury)?

Probably some QB I'm thinking.
I guess I’m interested in the wording of the question.  What’s a “near bust?”  Are you asking which college players almost weren’t good NFL players but then were?
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on March 08, 2023, 08:40:16 AM
I guess I’m interested in the wording of the question.  What’s a “near bust?”  Are you asking which college players almost weren’t good NFL players but then were?
No, I'm wondering who was the best CFB player who really didn't play well in the NFL (near bust, or bust).  Manziel comes to mind as an example, but he perhaps wasn't the "best CFB player" in that category.  That LSU QB comes to mind also, and some Hawaii QB?
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 08, 2023, 08:47:21 AM
Guys like Tony Mandarich and Andre Ware?  Or not necessarily high draft picks? 

Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on March 08, 2023, 09:11:22 AM
Guys like Tony Mandarich and Andre Ware?  Or not necessarily high draft picks?
Yes.  Could even include Herschel.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 08, 2023, 09:18:14 AM
DraftHistory.com (https://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb)
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on March 08, 2023, 01:31:53 PM
No, I'm wondering who was the best CFB player who really didn't play well in the NFL (near bust, or bust).  Manziel comes to mind as an example, but he perhaps wasn't the "best CFB player" in that category.  That LSU QB comes to mind also, and some Hawaii QB?
Tebow? he was all that - Big Contibutor on teams that won 2 NCs. This back when URBZ was focused and wanted it. Vince Young maybe - prolly could have used another season in the minors
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on March 08, 2023, 02:03:10 PM
VY could have used a position switch to TE.

Of course that didn't work for Tebow 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 08, 2023, 02:20:10 PM
Guys like Tony Mandarich and Andre Ware?  Or not necessarily high draft picks?


Heath Shuler. Ryan Leaf. Tim Couch. Akili Smith. Jamarcus Russell.

Vince Young doesn't belong with these guys. He's also the best college football player I've ever seen.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 08, 2023, 05:41:13 PM
If VY was the best college player you ever saw and his NFL career was like 5 years, with more INTs than TDs, then isn't that exactly what he's asking for here?
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on March 08, 2023, 08:17:38 PM
yep

unless there's a top 10 all-time college player that was even worse in the NFL
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on March 08, 2023, 08:18:39 PM
you know, guys like Tommie Frazier, Eric Crouch, Charlie Ward that didn't play a down in the league
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2023, 06:30:29 AM
I think we have a reasonable collection of names, I'm sure there are more "busts" of course.  And we all know of "7th rounders" who excelled.  I idly wonder how good a job "they" are doing in the draft and what is being missed.  I think a thing harder to evaluate is "character", someone who will continue to strive to improve and work hard even when being paid $30 million plus.  Intellect probably matters a good bit for many positions as well.

Brian Jordan told me the hardest hit he ever experienced in the NFL was by Jerry Rice, he said that guy played flat out every play.  And he had some talent as well.  Anyway, I'm a bit interested in how these "NFL scouts" etc. get fooled expensively and how they might do better, maybe it's not possible.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on March 09, 2023, 07:22:14 AM
They don't get fooled they either aren't any good or just don't use common sense. Like Russel for instance there were guys before him that pulled the same thing. Million dollar arm and a .10 cent head,at that time guys I'd watch the draft with didn't think he was a can't miss. He had one big spalsh season surrounded buy a terrific team it was obvious he had a cannon but it didn't appear to be guided. Like Leaf or Mallet there's a whole pile of these guys
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on March 09, 2023, 07:25:08 AM
you know, guys like Tommie Frazier, Eric Crouch, Charlie Ward that didn't play a down in the league
Didn't think any of those guys were elite,good maybe serviceable but again surrounded by talent that made their play appear stellar
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 09, 2023, 07:46:42 AM
If VY was the best college player you ever saw and his NFL career was like 5 years, with more INTs than TDs, then isn't that exactly what he's asking for here?
He made two pro bowls. He was offensive rookie of the year. So, no.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 09, 2023, 08:11:32 AM
Brian Bosworth.


Discuss.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on March 09, 2023, 09:12:50 AM
the Bos didn't suck in the league

like Mandrich
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on March 09, 2023, 09:43:20 AM
Maybe it's an impossible job to do any better than is done now.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 09, 2023, 09:58:54 AM
the Bos didn't suck in the league

like Mandrich
I'll never forget when he was flattened by Bo Jackson.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on March 09, 2023, 10:00:33 AM
Bo flattened a few good men
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 09, 2023, 05:38:57 PM
He made two pro bowls. He was offensive rookie of the year. So, no.
You draft a QB 3rd overall, and you're happy with 60 career games played and more INTs than TDs. 
While a QB drafted 11th wound up with 4.5x the yards and 5x the passing TDs...you're content?
.
But hell, Heisman-winner Matt Leinart was worse.  
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2023, 07:06:54 AM
He made two pro bowls. He was offensive rookie of the year. So, no.
You can be disappointed he didn't last longer, but he evidently played well for a couple of years, so not a "near bust" in my mind.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on March 10, 2023, 07:17:26 AM
Yup I just don't remember him getting to the Pro Bowl twice so not a wash out
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 10, 2023, 07:19:10 AM
You draft a QB 3rd overall, and you're happy with 60 career games played and more INTs than TDs. 
While a QB drafted 11th wound up with 4.5x the yards and 5x the passing TDs...you're content?
.
But hell, Heisman-winner Matt Leinart was worse. 
If he didn't get his head all f'd up he could have been a great one. He proved that in two seasons.

Content? No. But it's not like he's Ryan Leaf here.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2023, 07:28:23 AM
I'm thinking of players who excelled in college and hardly played a down in the NFL, or player very poorly to the point they washed out in a year, maybe two, not a player who ever made the Pro Bowl.  Some players have a couple really good years and then fade, it can be injury, poor coaching, or simply they got spoiled and didn't work at it.

Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on March 10, 2023, 11:10:31 AM
Mandarich  Recruited to Michigan State University by defensive back coach Nick Saban, Mandarich played in the 1988 Rose Bowl and was named a First-team All-American, an Outland Award finalist and a two-time Big Ten Lineman of the Year. Upon his entry into the 1989 NFL Draft, both scouts and media (most notably Sports Illustrated, which did a cover story on him, nicknaming him "The Incredible Bulk" began trumpeting Mandarich as the best offensive line prospect ever, touting his "measurables." "He weighed 330, ran the 40 [yard dash] in 4.65 seconds, did a standing long jump of 10'3", leaped vertically 30" and bench-pressed 225 pounds an unheard-of 39 times". He appeared on the cover of Sports Illustrated twice 

Going into the 1989 draft, Mandarich was considered one of the best prospects for an offensive lineman ever and a top-five pick. Mandarich was selected second overall by the Green Bay Packers.

Drafted as an offensive tackle, Mandarich never lived up to the stellar expectations set for him. After a lengthy holdout, which was not settled until the week before the regular-season kickoff, he spent most of his first year on the special-teams unit.  After three seasons of lackluster performance on a four-year contract, Mandarich was cut in 1992 by the Packers . Mandarich is often referred to as one of the top 5 bust NFL draft picks of all time, having been drafted ahead of such future NFL stars as Barry Sanders, Derrick Thomas, Deion Sanders, Steve Atwater, Eric Metcalf, and Andre Rison. The September 28, 1992, cover of Sports Illustrated featuring Mandarich labelled him "The NFL's Incredible Bust".

(https://vault.si.com/.image/c_limit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_184/MTY5MDk4NzIyMzkwMTg5NTMx/711101---cover-thumbnail-image.webp)

Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: rook119 on March 11, 2023, 12:35:11 AM
I'm thinking of players who excelled in college and hardly played a down in the NFL, or player very poorly to the point they washed out in a year, maybe two, not a player who ever made the Pro Bowl.  Some players have a couple really good years and then fade, it can be injury, poor coaching, or simply they got spoiled and didn't work at it.
Gordie Lockbaum 

Major Harris

Tony Rice

Trent Richardson

Now that NFL has gone RPO/college offense, Harris and maybe Rice as well might have gotten a chance in 2023
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on March 11, 2023, 08:54:50 AM
Trent Richardson

Now that NFL has gone RPO/college offense, Harris and maybe Rice as well might have gotten a chance in 2023
TR was a bust but somehow the Browns starting his  2 yr got a no 1 pick in return for him in a swap with the Colts. I can't recall whose life the Browns destroyed with that pick how ever
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 11, 2023, 03:59:02 PM
There are so many variables WAY outside of a player's control that being a bust or being great is a sub-50% chance either way.  
Let's say Trent Richardson was a great RB.  Let's say there was nothing wrong with him or his play.
Why did he suck?  
Play-calling
OL play (including just 1 O-lineman being subpar
Life stress (money, relationship, agent, real estate agent, etc)
Injuries
Being a little too content being a millionaire
.
The more you consider that free will may not actually be a thing, the more this list of potential reasons/excuses seems valid.  
Maybe a position coach's communication style was ineffective for you, but not for the next RB in line.  Maybe the playbook was so far removed from anything you'd experienced before that it created a split-second delay in your play.  

There's a reason sometimes trades that are for a "change of scenery" actually work.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 12, 2023, 12:08:27 AM
While Anthony Richardson is getting all of the attention, Florida will likely have another first-rounder in G Ocyrus Torrence. 
But I'm confused about DT Gervon Dexter.  I thought he'd be a surefire 1st-rounder and for some reason, he's not anything (as a prospect).
.
He's like 6'5", 315 and ACTIVE.  He didn't have big stats, but the unique thing about him (and this is from 3/4 thru the season and mentioned once during a game) is that he played a radically higher % of plays than any other DT. 

On the one hand, that extra volume could/should yield more stats, but on the other hand, it looks like they didn't and perhaps that extra volume caused a limited energy level.  Idk either way.  But he's a massive human that is active and can run.

The biggest knock on him is that he plays high, but that's an obvious, correctable thing.  He was a 5* recruit that still has that talent.  If someone picks him up in rounds 4-7, it's a definite potential steal.

"definite potential" haha
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on March 12, 2023, 07:00:01 AM
A thing that would keep me motivated, were I drafted, is simply love for the game.  Give me the millions, I'd still work hard off season and during camp because I like playing.

I'm lacking one other important item of course.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on March 12, 2023, 09:15:44 AM
Youth & talent? Have they figured out your knuckle ball?
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on March 12, 2023, 09:33:10 AM
My arm is shot now, really shot.  And instead of being paid to play, I pay to play.  But it's still fun.  I used to hit pretty well but the past two years have been real slumps, a handful of good hits and a lot of grounders.  I think I'm pulling off the ball.

Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 12, 2023, 09:52:56 AM
My arm is shot now, really shot.  And instead of being paid to play, I pay to play.  But it's still fun.  I used to hit pretty well but the past two years have been real slumps, a handful of good hits and a lot of grounders.  I think I'm pulling off the ball.


Move to Illinois?
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on March 12, 2023, 09:54:44 AM
Nah, we like it here just fine.  
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on March 27, 2023, 02:29:24 PM
Lamar Jackson has officially asked to be traded.

Probably going to take a couple 1st rd picks and matching the contract the Browns gave Deshaun Watson to get him.

Ravens screwed up royally. They should’ve redid his deal in 2020 instead of let it run out after 2022. They had so much time to resign him and they dragged their feet. Should be a lesson to every team. If you have a stud player- redo his deal well before the rookie deal is up. If you don’t- it’ll just cost you more down the road to keep him or you’ll just lose him.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 28, 2023, 02:25:40 AM
A thing that would keep me motivated, were I drafted, is simply love for the game.  Give me the millions, I'd still work hard off season and during camp because I like playing.

I'm lacking one other important item of course.
I bet a lot of these guys who wind up being busts is a lack of love and devotion for actually playing.
Up through college, they can coast by on talent and probably like the notoriety being a football player brings.  
Hershel Walker was ambivalent about football - it was basically a coin-flip between football or the military.  Same with Ricky Williams.  He won a Heisman and was a 1st-rounder without especially enjoying football and having a social anxiety disorder.  
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on March 28, 2023, 07:46:29 AM
unfortunately, Marcus Dupree was ambivalent about football
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2023, 08:14:31 AM
I can appreciate if I viewed a pro career as a "job" that I might not be fully "invested" once I had made bank.  These days it's a lot of work, even for baseball pitchers.  They don't relax in the off season (much), they have personal trainers and go at it pretty much nonstop.  And football no doubt adds in the variable of being hurt, perhaps dinged up and still able to play, but playing hurt, which is painful.  Ha.

So, maybe you play three years hard and sign a biggee and basically slack off.  I can see it.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Kris60 on March 28, 2023, 08:31:57 AM
I bet a lot of these guys who wind up being busts is a lack of love and devotion for actually playing.
Up through college, they can coast by on talent and probably like the notoriety being a football player brings. 
Hershel Walker was ambivalent about football - it was basically a coin-flip between football or the military.  Same with Ricky Williams.  He won a Heisman and was a 1st-rounder without especially enjoying football and having a social anxiety disorder. 
I totally agree.  I’m sure there are a lot of guys playing professional sports who don’t really love the game all that much.  They were blessed with freakish physical ability and there are few careers as lucrative as being a professional athlete, so it would be insane not to do it for a while just for the money.

But as far as just loving the game?  I bet there are more than we think who do it just to cash the checks.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on March 28, 2023, 08:36:28 AM
Aaron Rogers
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: rook119 on March 28, 2023, 11:49:33 PM
Lamar Jackson has officially asked to be traded.

Probably going to take a couple 1st rd picks and matching the contract the Browns gave Deshaun Watson to get him.

Ravens screwed up royally. They should’ve redid his deal in 2020 instead of let it run out after 2022. They had so much time to resign him and they dragged their feet. Should be a lesson to every team. If you have a stud player- redo his deal well before the rookie deal is up. If you don’t- it’ll just cost you more down the road to keep him or you’ll just lose him.

He'll sign somewhere for a totally reasonable contract. Perhaps less than 133M gaurenteed the Ravens may or may not offered him. 

He just wants out, he publically said he wanted to be traded to tell the Ravens that if they match any contract offer he's not showing up. 

Harbaugh has been the only person in management that has at least publically supported Lamar. Plus there has been serious bad blood between the owner/GM and Lamar stretching well before the beginning of last season. The Ravens owner rarely talks to the media and generally doesn't meddle but can't shut up when it comes to Lamar often w/ cringey comments (said he wants to sell and probably doesn't want to pay the bonus). Then they traded Brown who was a good fit on that team and the Ravens trotted out perhaps the worst collection of WRs in a decade. No.1 Bateman is a good No.1 on a XFL team then got hurt early in the season, No.2 (who became the No.1 WR) Duaverney is a good punt returner. Huntley (who lol made the pro bowl) who couldn't throw to blanketed WRs regressed in 2022 as well. 


 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on March 30, 2023, 01:43:23 PM
He'll sign somewhere for a totally reasonable contract. Perhaps less than 133M gaurenteed the Ravens may or may not offered him.

He just wants out, he publically said he wanted to be traded to tell the Ravens that if they match any contract offer he's not showing up.

Harbaugh has been the only person in management that has at least publically supported Lamar. Plus there has been serious bad blood between the owner/GM and Lamar stretching well before the beginning of last season. The Ravens owner rarely talks to the media and generally doesn't meddle but can't shut up when it comes to Lamar often w/ cringey comments (said he wants to sell and probably doesn't want to pay the bonus). Then they traded Brown who was a good fit on that team and the Ravens trotted out perhaps the worst collection of WRs in a decade. No.1 Bateman is a good No.1 on a XFL team then got hurt early in the season, No.2 (who became the No.1 WR) Duaverney is a good punt returner. Huntley (who lol made the pro bowl) who couldn't throw to blanketed WRs regressed in 2022 as well.
I'm just saying....I don't even understand how the Ravens let it get to this point. Had they redone his deal in 2020 or 2021 it'd have cost them a looooot less money to keep him than it would now. Should be a lesson to all NFL teams. Re-do the QB rookie deal ASAP if he's a stud. Longer you wait, longer it's gonna cost you. Dallas learned this the hard way as well with Dak- and they wound up WAY overpaying a guy who isn't even in the same stratosphere as Lamar. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on March 30, 2023, 01:52:51 PM
cause Harbaugh??
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 30, 2023, 02:17:31 PM
I don't know why this is so hard to understand. We all know that the NFL doesn't value RBs after their rookie deal. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on March 30, 2023, 03:13:47 PM
I don't know why this is so hard to understand. We all know that the NFL doesn't value RBs after their rookie deal.
Nick Chubb?
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 30, 2023, 03:27:40 PM
Nick Chubb?
I was trying to make the joke that Lamar is more RB than QB, which might be why he's not getting what he thinks is his value as a QB.

But that said, Chubb made a little over $12M / year in 2022. That puts him 6th on the list of RB salary. It would put him somewhere around 28th on the list of WR salary. 

Top WR (Tyreek) makes almost double what the top RB (CMC) makes. McCaffrey's 2022 salary would put him 22nd on the list of top paid WRs in 2022. 

The NFL doesn't value RBs the way they used to. 

And please, don't ever use what the Cleveland Browns are doing as justification for anything to make a point about what someone should do in football. Usually they're used as a point for what NOT to do :57:
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on March 30, 2023, 04:47:33 PM
I actually did not know WRs were paid so much better.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on March 30, 2023, 07:12:03 PM
Anyone can learn things hanging around here
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on March 30, 2023, 07:13:40 PM
I actually did not know WRs were paid so much better.
it’s a straight passing league now. 

seems like all the money goes to the QBs then the WRs and the edge rushers and CBs. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on March 30, 2023, 07:18:02 PM
I was trying to make the joke that Lamar is more RB than QB, which might be why he's not getting what he thinks is his value as a QB.

But that said, Chubb made a little over $12M / year in 2022. That puts him 6th on the list of RB salary. It would put him somewhere around 28th on the list of WR salary.

Top WR (Tyreek) makes almost double what the top RB (CMC) makes. McCaffrey's 2022 salary would put him 22nd on the list of top paid WRs in 2022.

The NFL doesn't value RBs the way they used to.

And please, don't ever use what the Cleveland Browns are doing as justification for anything to make a point about what someone should do in football. Usually they're used as a point for what NOT to do :57:
I do think Lamar’s running may have something to do with why he’s not getting paid. He’s a really good passer, definitely underrated and slept on there. 

It’s just a fact that someone who runs the ball more is more likely to get injured. And in the NFL the best ability is availability. No one team wants to give $200 million in contract guarantees to a dual threat QB that is far more likely to deal with injuries than a pure drop back passer. 

That’s just my take. I also think NFL owners are pissed at Browns for Watson’s contract and are trying to push back on fully guaranteed deals. Seems like they don’t want to make that a precedent.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 30, 2023, 07:34:49 PM
it’s a straight passing league now.

seems like all the money goes to the QBs then the WRs and the edge rushers and CBs.
I'm not quite as sure it's due SOLELY to the fact that it's a straight passing league. I think it's also due to the fact that being an RB is a brutal life, and anyone who can shoulder 20+ touches a game is going to crash and burn right about the time they hit 27-28 years old. Unless they're a genetic freak like Derrick Henry who is so freakin' big that he injures defenders; they don't hurt him. 

RBs in this league are still important, but they have a shelf life. Work them to death, throw them to the wolves and draft someone young. Unlike WRs who can be productive into the early 30s. 


Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on March 30, 2023, 07:38:20 PM
Guaranteed contracts for any football player is stupid 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on March 30, 2023, 08:04:28 PM
Detroit sports teams are top 3 across the board! Top 3 worst that is...

https://twitter.com/_ZachShaw/status/1641482185755570190?s=20
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on March 30, 2023, 09:12:17 PM
And please, don't ever use what the Cleveland Browns are doing as justification for anything to make a point about what someone should do in football.
That is a dirty,rotten,no good,low down,accurate thing to say
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 30, 2023, 11:05:52 PM
I'm not quite as sure it's due SOLELY to the fact that it's a straight passing league. I think it's also due to the fact that being an RB is a brutal life, and anyone who can shoulder 20+ touches a game is going to crash and burn right about the time they hit 27-28 years old. Unless they're a genetic freak like Derrick Henry who is so freakin' big that he injures defenders; they don't hurt him.

RBs in this league are still important, but they have a shelf life. Work them to death, throw them to the wolves and draft someone young. Unlike WRs who can be productive into the early 30s.
I love a post like this, that we're all basically nodding along in agreement with....and then everyone shits on Emmitt Smith.  
4,409 carries.  In the NFL.  The most ever.
That's like all of Jim Brown's PLUS Roger Craig's.
Tiki Barber + Shaun Alexander.
Jamal Lewis + Larry Csonka
.
You'll want to bring up Barry Sanders.  1400 fewer carries.  Yeah, his yards per carry was higher, yes he was great, but Barry didn't want 1400 more carries.  That wasn't in him.  It's not in anyone.  
.
Marcus Allen + Joe Morris
Thurman Thomas + Le'Veon Bell
.
And I'm going to go with the Tebow 30 passing TDs/20 rushng TDs defense.....if anyone could have done it, why hadn't anyone else done it?
Emmitt had as many carries from his age-30 season-on as career carries for Sammy Winder, Travis Henry, Arian Foster or Todd Gurley.
.
Yards per carry is very important...but so is carries.  You need your guy in the game.  Otherwise, your backup is in there, not Barry.  Your backup, not Payton.  Not Emmitt.  
.
He somehow navigated probably the roughest position in sports (vs maybe catcher or nose tackle), and did it 600 more times than anyone else, ever.  







Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on March 31, 2023, 12:35:21 AM
For someone who is otherwise very statistically driven, you ride very hard for a guy who was very good, but not great, and certainly not elite behind the greatest offensive line ever assembled. Simply because apparently he agreed to keep carrying the ball for a championship team, because he was surrounded by a Hall of Famers, and was never asked to solely carry a team.  
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 31, 2023, 04:04:51 AM
You don't find it odd that a RB who is first in carries, yards, and TDs is rarely considered a top-3 RB?  I guess you could say he's getting the Hank Aaron treatment.
.
I'm obviously not objective here, but 3 things:
1 - volume stats/achievements are not sexy, but they matter
2 - if his OL is the reason for his success, why was he an All-American in college?  How did he run for the 2nd-most yards in high school history?  And wouldn't the backup RBs do just as well with that OL blocking for them? 
3 - The Cowboys stunk w/o him
.
Emmitt wasn't fast, but he got the yards.  Emmitt wasn't big, but the got the yards.  He made it his goal to retire as the all-time leading rusher before playing a down in the NFL, and he accomplished that goal. 
It's funny, no other great player seems to be penalized for having a good GM.  No one brings it up for Aikman.  Other RBs were more flashy, and had better Madden video game attributes, but it's just a big mystery how such a ho-hum guy could lead in career everything.
.
Anyway, this isn't the point of the thread, so sorry for taking it off-course.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on March 31, 2023, 09:04:37 AM
You'll want to bring up Barry Sanders.  1400 fewer carries.  Yeah, his yards per carry was higher, yes he was great, but Barry didn't want 1400 more carries.  
As bent as you are you could have run behind that Dallas line. Emmitt was a baller/grinder and the consumate team player. But Barry proved himself and wasn't going to keep getting curb stomped because keyboard kommandos didn't think he had that in him
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on March 31, 2023, 09:15:55 AM
I was trying to make the joke that Lamar is more RB than QB, which might be why he's not getting what he thinks is his value as a QB.
^^^^^^This the guys I watched the games with discussed this. We basically agreed if Jackson didn't make the Super Bowl after 5-6 yrs his chances would fade fast.The legs will start slogging. He hasn't displayed consistent accuracy deep into the season when defenses scheme to take away the short stuff. Great athlete with impressive highlight reels but you have to be able to move the ball thru the air when the skies turn gray.  At least enough to keep a defense honest
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 31, 2023, 10:19:18 AM
He somehow navigated probably the roughest position in sports (vs maybe catcher or nose tackle), and did it 600 more times than anyone else, ever. 
That's pretty impressive, actually. And you can't even talk OL on a stat like that, because every time you carry the ball, if you don't score (or run out of bounds) you're taking a hit. A good OL might change WHERE you're taking that hit, but you're still taking a hit. 

That's one of those stats that may never be equaled, with the changing NFL going to more RB-by-committee and generally becoming more pass-dominant anyway. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 31, 2023, 11:22:23 AM
That's pretty impressive, actually. And you can't even talk OL on a stat like that, because every time you carry the ball, if you don't score (or run out of bounds) you're taking a hit. A good OL might change WHERE you're taking that hit, but you're still taking a hit.

That's one of those stats that may never be equaled, with the changing NFL going to more RB-by-committee and generally becoming more pass-dominant anyway.
It will never be equaled. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on March 31, 2023, 11:25:18 AM
as a stats thing Emmitt was a one off
an outlier 

the one data point that isn't great to focus on
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on March 31, 2023, 12:13:59 PM
Emmitt was great. But he wasn't Barry. He just wasn't. Emmitt played 5 more years than Barry and on teams that were significantly better.

If Barry Sanders played for 15 seasons and 13 of them on those Dallas teams dude would have multiple 2,000+ yard rushing seasons and he'd probably have rushed for close to 25,000 yards for his career. 

Barry Sanders was the most freakish RB to ever touch a football. Nobody could do what he could do. Dude popped Rod Woodson's ACL and Rod Woodson never even touched him. Rod Woodson is one of the greatest defensive players who has ever lived. Ask the defensive players who had to face both who was better. They all to a man say Barry and that Barry was in a class by himself.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 31, 2023, 01:53:07 PM
It will never be equaled.
Two of the most dangerous words in our language are always and never, so I tried to soften that never with the "may" ;)

I feel like with the trends in the NFL, it won't ever be equaled. But trends may change in unexpected ways in the future, or we might have someone who is just a unicorn that keeps on trucking. 

Derrick Henry would be the only one I can see in the league right now who has a chance. He's 29, and (when healthy) has been rushing on pace for maybe 350 attempts per season on average over the last 4. He'd have to play until 37 at that pace of carries to do it. He's actually been very healthy overall--his injury in 2021 wasn't the type that you see from an RB whose body is "breaking down", it was a freak foot injury from being stepped on. He seems to have the sort of frame that can take some abuse. 

Do I think he'll do it? No. I don't. But I see him as the sort of player who potentially COULD if he wanted to keep playing that long. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on March 31, 2023, 02:08:51 PM
end up like Earl Campbell
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 31, 2023, 02:13:56 PM
Henry has been running that way since HS in Yulee, FL.  He will hit a wall, hit it fast, and be out of the league.  
Tomlinson was kinda/sorta on pace.....
Peterson was kinda/sorta on pace.....
.
Ask any RB and their biggest challenge isn't the LB, isn't the scheme he's facing, it's staying on the field.  
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 31, 2023, 02:23:40 PM
For someone who is otherwise very statistically driven, you ride very hard for a guy who was very good, but not great, and certainly not elite   
I get what you're saying here, but when it comes to RBs, I'm consistent.  Hershel Walker didn't have the best ypc average, either, but his volume was what made him the greatest (possibly replaced by Jonathan Taylor, tbh).  Only 4-year starters had more carries than HW in his 3 seasons.  Sure, he was a specimen, but his volume set him apart just as much.  And I'll say something I already said:  if it was no big deal to run 1,000 times in 3 years, why hadn't anyone else done it?
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on March 31, 2023, 02:25:56 PM
mostly because of coaching

not because of the player
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 01, 2023, 09:59:37 AM
mostly because of coaching

not because of the player
So ole Vince Dooley would have had a little 180 lb RB get all those carries?  Or do you mean his best play was Hershel to the right, then Hershel left, then Hershel up the middle?  If so, were other coaches stupid, wasting time with plays that weren't in their 3 best?  I'm confused.
Were Jimmy Johnson and OC Norv Turner stupid?  Insisting on giving the ball to their slow, pedestrian RB all those times?  Were they wrong? 
.
Also, I'd like to point out another inconsistency when it comes to "best player" talk:  if we were talking QBs, some of you would harp on how many TDs or even more so - how many Super Bowl rings the player has.  Not so with RBs, even from that era.  Why is that?? 
If it's not Barry's fault the Lions didn't win it all, then why is it any particular QB's fault?  That's silly.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2023, 10:13:01 AM
mostly because of coaching

not because of the player
I think he means the overall scheme by said coach led to HW getting a lot of carries.  UGA was a run oriented offense at the time no matter who was running back.  Now, other backs in that era didn't get as many carries of course, some didn't stay healthy, some had steady backups, some weren't on very good teams, so they would get behind and need to throw more.  And many could not have carried the load of 35 attempts per game plus some receiving.

Had Walker played on a pass oriented team, he would not have gotten so many carries.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 01, 2023, 10:31:10 AM

Also, I'd like to point out another inconsistency when it comes to "best player" talk:  if we were talking QBs, some of you would harp on how many TDs or even more so - how many Super Bowl rings the player has.  Not so with RBs, even from that era.  Why is that?? 
If it's not Barry's fault the Lions didn't win it all, then why is it any particular QB's fault?  That's silly.
This is one of those things that always gets me. Marino gets discounted because he never got a ring. 

Please. Getting a ring is dependent on SO many things in football that are outside the QBs control. 

Jim McMahon has a ring because he played with possibly the greatest RB in history and had a terrifying defense that did all the work. Hell, Peyton Manning is an all-time great, but his arm was half falling off when he got his second ring, and although he was still as sharp mentally as in his physical prime, there's NO chance he would have even gotten near the Super Bowl w/o the defense that the Broncos had that year. 

Matthew Stafford has a ring. Why? Because he left Detroit for a team that literally mortgaged the future to build a Super Bowl worthy roster around him, and it worked. 

Marino is one of the all-time greats at the position. But sportswriters create a special box to put him in, "the best QB who never won a Super Bowl."

In football, individual success can exist on a team that sucks, and teams can be successful despite rather pedestrian play from even an important position like QB. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2023, 10:43:34 AM
I think M. Jordan should get credit for the rings in addition to his play, duh.  But I agree, a great player could have zero rings, and a decent player might have 2.

Stetson Bennett IV for example...
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on April 01, 2023, 10:55:55 AM
So ole Vince Dooley would have had a little 180 lb RB get all those carries?  Or do you mean his best play was Hershel to the right, then Hershel left, then Hershel up the middle?  If so, were other coaches stupid, wasting time with plays that weren't in their 3 best?  I'm confused.

no need to be cornfused

part of it is giving the 2nd string back some of those carries
either to keep the #1 guy fresh or healthy or to develop depth
especially when the game is in hand, maybe Vince wasn't in many blowouts
UNL and OU didn't throw many passes, but they didn't run their top RB into the ground.
It's the coach that decides how many attempts a guy gets.
Rozier, Sims, and Sanders might have been the best play and really wanted those carries, but coaches decided otherwise
I'd guess Sanders would have loved to start ahead of Thurman the previous season, but.......... coach
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on April 01, 2023, 10:56:38 AM
Had Walker played on a pass oriented team, he would not have gotten so many carries.
and this, obviously
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on April 01, 2023, 10:58:24 AM

If it's not Barry's fault the Lions didn't win it all, then why is it any particular QB's fault?  That's silly.
I agree it's silly.

Dan Marino
Fran Tarkenton
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 01, 2023, 11:13:08 AM
I think M. Jordan should get credit for the rings in addition to his play, duh.  But I agree, a great player could have zero rings, and a decent player might have 2.

Stetson Bennett IV for example...
Basketball is a bit of a different sport in this respect, with only 5 players on the court per team at one time. One dominant player can do a lot more individually than you see in football. 

That said, as amazing as Jordan was, he can't play 1-on-5, even if some nights it seemed like that's what he was doing. You have to have a supporting cast to do what those teams did. And the Bulls did make the playoffs during the first year of his first retirement. It's not like the rest of the roster were scrubs. 

Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2023, 11:16:26 AM
Absolutely.  This is why overall I tend to dismiss "lists" of the "ten greatest" in order.  Let them all be great, celebrate their greatness without having to try and rank Babe Ruth over Ty Cobb or whatever.  I view MJ as "The Greatest" myself, he's kind of an exception for me (not that it matters).  I'd probably say Jack N. was the greatest, but I don't like losing sight of the other greats in golf.  Pinning the label on one guy tends to obscure what others accomplished.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 01, 2023, 03:33:07 PM
I think he means the overall scheme by said coach led to HW getting a lot of carries.  UGA was a run oriented offense at the time no matter who was running back.  Now, other backs in that era didn't get as many carries of course, some didn't stay healthy, some had steady backups, some weren't on very good teams, so they would get behind and need to throw more.  And many could not have carried the load of 35 attempts per game plus some receiving.

Had Walker played on a pass oriented team, he would not have gotten so many carries.
I think this is also important. Obviously @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) brought up Jonathan Taylor. 

But it's not like Wisconsin recruited Taylor and said "OMG he's so freakin' good let's become a run-first team!" No, they already had a scheme, and an identity, and in recruiting attracted top-end RB talent. Taylor just happened to be so good, and so durable, and didn't fumble, so you just force-fed him the ball over and over. 

I don't know much about the UGA teams of that era. But I would suspect it's the same thing. Run-dominant philosophy before Herschel arrives, and then you just happen upon an otherworldly talent who also managed to stay really healthy over three years, and so you just gave him the ball over and over. 

IMHO with Wisconsin, the scheme came first, and then they got really lucky with a player who had the exact mix of talent and skills that you didn't even want to give the backup any carries. It was easy coaching, "just give it to JT!" But it wasn't coaching in the sense that they changed their offense to revolve around the run game--they already had that. 

That said, it's still an insane volume for Walker, and like Emmitt, I tip my hat to him actually withstanding it. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2023, 04:30:25 PM
UGA circa 1980 under Dooley was a run oriented offense for sure.  I was before and after HW.  UGA didn't get great QBs and WRs very often, Goff was pretty good but he was a running QB.  Buck Belue was pretty good, but he had HW.  His successor in 1982 was not good at all, he was a gamer.  Their good teams, when they had one, were based on gutty defense and running the ball.  Casual fans today are shocked to watch them and realize they pass the ball now.

Walker was the third string back in 1980 in the first game.  He didn't look like much in practice I'm told.  Dooley called him a "big stiff fullback".

The state population has doubled since 1980 and a LOT of money has gone into HS football.  It's THE sport to play if you're an athlete.  And UGA now is somewhat akin to Ohio State in dominating a pretty large state with very good HS football, though UGA has more neighbors recruiting hard in the state.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on April 01, 2023, 06:38:36 PM
Walker was the third string back in 1980 in the first game.  He didn't look like much in practice I'm told.  Dooley called him a "big stiff fullback".

coaching.........


if for whatever reason, Vince wouldn't have realized Walker was a beast, instead of a big stiff, Herschel never gets all those carries
so, for me, the eye test means more than a stat page
but then, greatness is in the eye of the beholder and is seriously objective
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 01, 2023, 07:12:18 PM
I think he means the overall scheme by said coach led to HW getting a lot of carries.  UGA was a run oriented offense at the time no matter who was running back.  Now, other backs in that era didn't get as many carries of course, some didn't stay healthy, some had steady backups, some weren't on very good teams, so they would get behind and need to throw more.  And many could not have carried the load of 35 attempts per game plus some receiving.

Had Walker played on a pass oriented team, he would not have gotten so many carries.
Many teams ran the ball as often as UGA did those years.  John Robinson ran his RBs into the ground at USC.  Marcus Allen had 433 carries in his big year.  

And if Walker played on a pass-oriented team....they'd no longer be pass-oriented.  Otherwise, the OC should be fired.  We saw this with Tennessee and Peyton Manning.  UT ran the ball 40-46-48 plays a game before Manning.  By his SR season, it was down to 33.  The year after he left, back up to 43 (with a NC, no less).  Their roster was built to run more, but Manning's talent sort of hijacked their play-calling.  Not so with HW, as just about every team was running 70-80% of the time n the early 80s.
.
Also, in creating so many teams (2,000+) for Whoa Nellie, I know a bit about indivdiual RBs and workload.  There are plenty of others out there who had a higher % of his teams carries IN A SINGLE SEASON.  Walker was special because it was 3 monster years and then he was gone.  
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on April 01, 2023, 07:18:55 PM
not many will argue that Walker was special
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 01, 2023, 07:21:50 PM


Walker was the third string back in 1980 in the first game.  He didn't look like much in practice I'm told.  Dooley called him a "big stiff fullback".
Imagine if the first 2 guys did well initially. 
No Bill Bates play. 
No, "my God, he ran right through two men!......My God, a freshman!"
.
So to bring all of this back to Emmitt, these guys carrying the ball an inordinate number of times in their 3-4 college years were bigger dudes....HW was physically bigger and faster than the guys trying to tackle him.  Ron Dayne (4-year carries record) was obviously a bowling ball. 
Emmitt wasn't.  Wasn't faster than any DBs.  Not bigger than any LBs.  And he still ran the ball 4,400 times. 



Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 01, 2023, 07:23:48 PM
Getting back on track with the 2023 NFL Draft, here's a question: 
With you team drafting in the top 10, how many of you would want them to take Richardson?  
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on April 01, 2023, 07:28:27 PM
nope
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on April 01, 2023, 07:35:07 PM
Getting back on track with the 2023 NFL Draft, here's a question:
With you team drafting in the top 10, how many of you would want them to take Richardson? 
hell to the no. I wouldn't touch Richardson until the 5th or 6th round. If that.

Lions have the 6th and 18th picks in the 1st round of the draft. The ONLY QBs they should pull the trigger on at either pick is CJ Stroud or Bryce Young- if either fall to them by some miracle. Which they won't so it's a moot point. CJ Stroud is one of the most gifted effortless pure passers of the football I've ever seen. Bryce Young just has those leadership and intangibles and is a magician in the pocket- despite his small size- and his arm strength is better than you think- he doesn't have a cannon and he's not hyper accurate like Stroud but he's got NFL arm strength and he's pretty darn accurate. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 02, 2023, 12:06:13 AM
I'll never understand why he left early.  
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on April 02, 2023, 08:15:25 AM
maybe you will when he's selected in the 1st round
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on April 02, 2023, 09:19:32 AM
I'll never understand why he left early. 
Lots of players think they are better than they actually are. Could be that and he thinks he’s going to be #1 overall. Or he could just hate school and want a crack at going pro and making money in the NFL. 

Dude is a freak athlete and he’s massive. Someone is going to draft him way higher than they should.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on April 02, 2023, 09:22:05 AM
I'd leave early if I had a realistic chance of going Day One.  (If you want a degree, you can always go back later.)  I'd guess someone will take a flyer on him early, and maybe he works out down the road somewhere.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on April 02, 2023, 09:28:10 AM
I'd leave early if I had a realistic chance of going Day One.  (If you want a degree, you can always go back later.)  I'd guess someone will take a flyer on him early, and maybe he works out down the road somewhere.
I think guys who will be 1st or 2nd rd picks should leave early. Football players have a short shelf life. Freak injuries can happen at any time and end your career in that sport. Take the 1st/2nd rd money and run if you can, go back finish the degree later.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on April 02, 2023, 10:05:10 AM
The salaries for the second-round draft picks range from $1,579,416 to $952,995. Third-round pick salaries range from $899,198 to $818,073. The day two selections in the second and third round will all receive four-year contracts.

Even a 3rd rounder gets nearly a mil for four years.  Why pass that up to stay in college?  Who might stay instead of going out?

In theory, a 3rd round QB might improve over his final year enough to be a first day pick.  Now we're talking $13 million at the bottom end, up to over $40.  So, I think IF you think another year will boost your draft status, it makes sense to stay.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on April 02, 2023, 10:09:39 AM
many of these guys aren't good at "school"
of course a high percentage of those guys won't be good at managing on their own as an NFL rookie either
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on April 02, 2023, 10:18:56 AM
Sure, they aren't there to play school.  It's really a math problem and they'd all be getting advice (one hopes), so even the dimmest bulb should be able to understand the equations.  They can stay and take 12 hours of classes selected for football players and make C- or whatever, it's only for the fall quarter/semester.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on April 02, 2023, 10:20:08 AM
Jalen Carter had this decision last year and stayed.  He was positioned to be the first pick in the draft until he looked bad on pro day (over weight and tired).  He'll still go first round I think, but he may have last year anyway, not sure.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on April 02, 2023, 10:54:37 AM
Jalen Carter had this decision last year and stayed.  He was positioned to be the first pick in the draft until he looked bad on pro day (over weight and tired).  He'll still go first round I think, but he may have last year anyway, not sure.
I pray to god he free falls to the Lions at 18. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on April 02, 2023, 11:08:59 AM
He was involved in a drag race that killed a teammate.  While sad, I don't think that's a character issue, as much as being young and stupid.  What does concern me is that he then showed up totally out of shape at pro day.  I legitimately wonder how much his head is in football anymore.  Not that I'd blame him.  Maybe he'll be ok, but he might not.  If the Lions take him at #18, sure.  At #6?  please no
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on April 02, 2023, 11:10:28 AM
I suspect he tends to get out of shape quickly if not disciplined by coaches etc.  
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on April 02, 2023, 11:43:18 AM
maybe you will when he's selected in the 1st round
ED Zachery wouldn't surprise me,needs more time. Number ones should be plug in and play. Not certain I'd take Smith-Njigba in the 1st.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on April 02, 2023, 11:56:09 AM
General consensus forming on Georgia first round draft prospects (on3.com) (https://www.on3.com/teams/georgia-bulldogs/news/general-consensus-forming-on-georgia-first-round-draft-prospects/?fbclid=IwAR2ufR5FvT9o1A34quZP63v9NheJNhZOdPXO9TpXBi0F8tAqC4zk8hZbnpc)

They guess Carter at 5 or 7.  I think I'd take Nolan Smith ahead of him though.  I'd take Darnell Washington (TE) at 30 myself also.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on April 02, 2023, 12:22:22 PM
I pray to god he free falls to the Lions at 18.
I think God is still pissed at you for telling him to eff off in the Game Thread after the block- six vs Sparty. 🤣 😜not rubbing it in but that was funny
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on April 02, 2023, 01:09:42 PM
ED Zachery wouldn't surprise me,needs more time. Number ones should be plug in and play. Not certain I'd take Smith-Njigba in the 1st.
dude JSN is a plug and play receiver and should most definitely go in the 1st rd. Especially with the way the passing game in the NFL is today- his versatility to play any of the WR spots- X,Y,Z at a high level will put him at a premium in the league. He's a freaking 1st rd lock. I would be shocked if he didn't go 1st rd. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on April 02, 2023, 01:12:45 PM
General consensus forming on Georgia first round draft prospects (on3.com) (https://www.on3.com/teams/georgia-bulldogs/news/general-consensus-forming-on-georgia-first-round-draft-prospects/?fbclid=IwAR2ufR5FvT9o1A34quZP63v9NheJNhZOdPXO9TpXBi0F8tAqC4zk8hZbnpc)

They guess Carter at 5 or 7.  I think I'd take Nolan Smith ahead of him though.  I'd take Darnell Washington (TE) at 30 myself also.
Yeah, I don't think Carter slips out of the top 10. That's why I said by some miracle if he was there at 18. 

I wouldn't touch Nolan Smith in the 1st rd. He didn't produce enough at the college level. His freakish athleticism though can't be ignored. I'd say 2nd rd would be a good spot to take him imo. If he hits- you have an elite player with freakish athleticism. If he doesn't- it's just a 2nd rd pick. 

Washington is a no brainer 1st rd pick. I'd take him at 18 if I was Detroit. And I'm a guy who has roasted the Lions for taking TE's in the 1st rd and someone who thinks you should basically never take a TE in the 1st. Washington is the exception to that rule- and his ability as a blocker is flat out dominant and he can make an already solid OL even better- and he can also be a huge asset in the passing game. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on April 02, 2023, 01:15:06 PM
Smith was the de facto QB of the defense, he was a crucial part of it (injured of course later in the year, so his numbers aren't full year).

He is IMHO an elite player.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on April 02, 2023, 01:16:01 PM
He was involved in a drag race that killed a teammate.  While sad, I don't think that's a character issue, as much as being young and stupid.  What does concern me is that he then showed up totally out of shape at pro day.  I legitimately wonder how much his head is in football anymore.  Not that I'd blame him.  Maybe he'll be ok, but he might not.  If the Lions take him at #18, sure.  At #6?  please no
that's where I'm at as well. I'm not hating it at #6 overall if they take him- but I'm also not loving it. They have a ton of needs and at #6 my hope is that they'd land as close to a sure thing as there is- knowing full well there are no sure things in the NFL draft. At #18 though- that's a no brainer. Totally worth the value- risk/reward. If he busts and off-field issues get in his way- it's the #18 pick. If he hits like he has the potential to- well you got a top 3 player in the draft at #18 overall. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 02, 2023, 01:43:27 PM
maybe you will when he's selected in the 1st round
Leaving now is a good way for him to make $4-5 million.
Staying in school and learning how to throw a slant route would be a good way for him to eventually make $40-50 million.  
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on April 02, 2023, 01:54:19 PM
Leaving now is a good way for him to make $4-5 million.
Staying in school and learning how to throw a slant route would be a good way for him to eventually make $40-50 million. 
I'm of the opinion that he can't learn how to do that no matter how long he stays in school. I really tend to think throwing the football accurately is something you're just born with. I think guys can improve upon it- but only to a certain extent. I don't think Richardson will ever be able to throw at a high enough level that is required for the NFL. He's so inaccurate and wild as is- he'd have to make insane amount of improvement that just doesn't seem possible.

He's got insane arm strength but touch, accuracy/ball placement are far more important things to have- and he seems to really lack all those things.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on April 02, 2023, 02:08:23 PM
The bottom first round salary was $13 mil
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 02, 2023, 05:03:09 PM
The bottom first round salary was $13 mil
Wow!  That's crazy.  
Thanks for informing me.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 02, 2023, 05:06:39 PM
I'm of the opinion that he can't learn how to do that no matter how long he stays in school. I really tend to think throwing the football accurately is something you're just born with. I think guys can improve upon it- but only to a certain extent. I don't think Richardson will ever be able to throw at a high enough level that is required for the NFL. He's so inaccurate and wild as is- he'd have to make insane amount of improvement that just doesn't seem possible.

He's got insane arm strength but touch, accuracy/ball placement are far more important things to have- and he seems to really lack all those things.
If this was the case, then teams would never draft based on potential.  
It's funny, because every article about it says learning improved footwork will help with his accuracy, and that it's fully teachable.
I don't know the ins and outs of QB play, I was a lineman.  


.
I think the additional volume of play would benefit him, if nothing else.  Starting 25 games > starting 13, right?






Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on April 02, 2023, 06:50:21 PM
In theory, a 3rd round QB might improve over his final year enough to be a first day pick.  Now we're talking $13 million at the bottom end, up to over $40.  So, I think IF you think another year will boost your draft status, it makes sense to stay.
Yeah, the salary gap between Day One and "other" is huge.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on April 02, 2023, 09:02:18 PM
dude JSN is a plug and play receiver and should most definitely go in the 1st rd. Especially with the way the passing game in the NFL is today- his versatility to play any of the WR spots- X,Y,Z at a high level will put him at a premium in the league. He's a freaking 1st rd lock. I would be shocked if he didn't go 1st rd.
Potential is there Not a burner and a bad hammy played mostly slot needs to be outside for ahigh pick. Ran a 4.48 at the combine and many felt he could have given the Playoffs a shot.  Mclaurin,Campell,Olave, Wilson all 4.31-4.38 guys. JS-N had one good season and basically not playing for a year not sure i'd take him in the top 20. Good hands and moves. Better be quick enough to avoid getting stuffed at the line
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on April 03, 2023, 10:27:39 AM
I hope he lands with my team
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: rook119 on April 03, 2023, 11:44:08 AM
He'll sign somewhere for a totally reasonable contract. Perhaps less than 133M gaurenteed the Ravens may or may not offered him.

He just wants out, he publically said he wanted to be traded to tell the Ravens that if they match any contract offer he's not showing up.

Harbaugh has been the only person in management that has at least publically supported Lamar. Plus there has been serious bad blood between the owner/GM and Lamar stretching well before the beginning of last season. The Ravens owner rarely talks to the media and generally doesn't meddle but can't shut up when it comes to Lamar often w/ cringey comments (said he wants to sell and probably doesn't want to pay the bonus). Then they traded Brown who was a good fit on that team and the Ravens trotted out perhaps the worst collection of WRs in a decade. No.1 Bateman is a good No.1 on a XFL team then got hurt early in the season, No.2 (who became the No.1 WR) Duaverney is a good punt returner. Huntley (who lol made the pro bowl) who couldn't throw to blanketed WRs regressed in 2022 as well.
The Ravens are low key toxic right now. 

 The coach is preparing like Lamar is gonna be there. The GM/owner has built a team as if Lamar doesn't even exist (imagine the Bills saying, hey Josh Allen, heres a punt returner as a new starting wideout because you know what you really need, Kyle Hamilton). They treated Dobbins w/ kid gloves over 1.5 seasons then he magically comes back as soon as Lamar is injured and single handedly torches the steelers. They supposedly are broke and can't sign anyone but they signed Roquan Smith for $$$ (Roquan deserves it but it looks bad when you also sign Nelson Abongolor at 3M to be your No.1? guy) 

Harbaugh like all coaches sure does stupid things from time to time in games (going for it is fine, just y'know don't call the exact same play/formation the other team saw on film last week, and also the week before mmmKay?). However he's really tried hard and been somewhat successful keeping everything from boiling up. For better or worse Jim would have gone scorched earth on the fact they'll get 2 late No.1 picks for Lamar, then have to perhaps package even more draft picks to get an unproven rookie QB. 

I'm a steeler fan, there is a future for our team w/o Lamar. He's a good passer and maybe his shelf life isn't TB12 but it'll last a 5 year contract. He made Hollywood Brown look good. His only credible pass catcher is Andrews who he manages to find despite getting doubled regularly.    
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on April 24, 2023, 02:58:05 PM
My 7 round Mock

ROUND 1




Steelers trade Pick #17 to Buccaneers for Pick #19 and two 5th Round picks (#153 and #175)




Steelers trade Pick #19 to Colts for 2nd Round (#35), 3rd Round (#79), and 4th Round (#106)




Giants trade Pick #25 to Patriots for 2nd Round (#46), 3rd Round (#76) and 4th Round (#135)




Bills trade Pick #27 and 4th Round (#130) to Eagles for Pick #30 and 3rd Round (#94)


Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on April 24, 2023, 04:02:32 PM
ROUND 2



Jets trade Pick #43 to Packers for Pick #45 and 5th Round (#170)


Lions trade Pick #48 to Buccaneers for Pick #50 and 6th Round (#179)


Dolphins trade Pick #51 to Lions for Pick #55 and 4th Round (#152)


Jaguars trade Pick #56, and two 4th Round (#121 and #127) to Bengals for Pick #60 and 3rd Round (#92)


Giants trade Pick #57 to Raiders for two 3rd Round (#70 and #100)


Jaguars trade Pick #60 to Titans for 3rd Round (#72), 5th Round (#147) and 6th Round (#186)


Bears trade Pick #61 to Packers for 3rd Round (#78), 4th Round (#116) and 5th Round (#149)

Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on April 24, 2023, 10:58:49 PM
Well, that trade really throws a wrench in it already completed draft board
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 08:25:37 AM
This turns into a recruiting point eventually, right?  If your program does well in the draft, it gets attention?
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on April 25, 2023, 10:48:44 AM
ROUND 3




Broncos trade Pick #68 and 6th Round (#195) to Saints for Pick #71 and 5th Round (#165)




Jaguars trade Pick #72 to Browns for Pick #74 and 6th Round (#190)




Giants trade Pick #76 to Dolphins for Pick #84, 5th Round (#152) and 6th Round (#197)




Steelers trade Pick #80 to 49ers for Pick #99 and Pick #102




Seahawks trade Pick #83 to Commanders for Pick #97 and 4th Round (#118)




Giants trade Pick #100 to Bengals for two 4th Round Picks (#121 and #127)


Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 10:57:06 AM
Does anyone have any stats handy on how many of those drafted make the roster?
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on April 25, 2023, 11:05:17 AM
Does anyone have any stats handy on how many of those drafted make the roster?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/prishe/2015/05/22/tracking-nfl-draft-efficiency-how-contingent-is-success-to-draft-position/?sh=74821a067495
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 11:09:28 AM
Nearly 30% of all starters were 1st round draft picks when drafted into the league;
-          Roughly 30% were taken in either the 2nd or 3rd round;
-          Roughly 26% were taken in either rounds 4 through 7;
-          Undrafted players (14%) were the 3rd most likely group to comprise 2014’s starters…only behind 1st round (30%) and 2nd round (18%) picks.


Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on April 25, 2023, 12:53:37 PM
ROUND 4


Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on April 25, 2023, 12:55:00 PM
anyone else feel like the Jets gave up too much for a guy that's about to be 40 and is coming off the worst season of his career? 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2023, 01:31:16 PM
Of course.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on April 25, 2023, 01:34:00 PM
screw the Jets, I'm just glad the guy is out of Green Bay
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 01:34:26 PM
anyone else feel like the Jets gave up too much for a guy that's about to be 40 and is coming off the worst season of his career?
Stetson Bennett IV???
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on April 25, 2023, 01:58:37 PM
anyone else feel like the Jets gave up too much for a guy that's about to be 40 and is coming off the worst season of his career?
I saw someone point out that if one of your buddies said he was going to spend a week in a dark room to decide his future, and came out and wanted to be a Jet, you'd have him committed.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 25, 2023, 02:02:01 PM
screw the Jets, I'm just glad the guy is out of Green Bay
I dunno. A declining weirdo QB is a good plan for Green Bay.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on April 25, 2023, 03:16:45 PM
The odds of Will Levis going #1 swung from 40-1 to 4-1 this morning based on a Reddit post claiming Levis was telling friends and family he was going #1.

God bless anyone so desperate they are gambling on the NFL Draft
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on April 25, 2023, 03:32:41 PM
The odds of Will Levis going #1 swung from 40-1 to 4-1 this morning based on a Reddit post claiming Levis was telling friends and family he was going #1.

God bless anyone so desperate they are gambling on the NFL Draft
How he's even being talked as a 1st round pick blows my mind. Same for Richardson. Maybe less for Richardson because he's so freakishly talented in terms of being 6'4, 245 pounds running a 4.4 in the 40 and having one of the strongest arms in at least the last several drafts when you're talking pure strength/velocity/distance. Levis has....what exactly? 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on April 25, 2023, 03:37:51 PM
How he's even being talked as a 1st round pick blows my mind. Same for Richardson. Maybe less for Richardson because he's so freakishly talented in terms of being 6'4, 245 pounds running a 4.4 in the 40 and having one of the strongest arms in at least the last several drafts when you're talking pure strength/velocity/distance. Levis has....what exactly?
I actually do like Levis, as a late first round pick.  But if you are picking late in the first round, you are likely close to a title contender, and probably not in need of a rookie QB.

I think it's a team trading up into the 1st to take him late.  I think in my mock, it was the Colts.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on April 25, 2023, 09:04:06 PM
I dunno. A declining weirdo QB is a good plan for Green Bay.
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/343465835_1603191996849080_3596956814811618175_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=_EoqFknEmJ4AX9y0UFn&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBkz0ERGIE0Ku0H77Fs4dzj6a_Hax4Ijl5YmOhhLXgBsg&oe=644D5D45)
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 25, 2023, 09:53:05 PM
Rodgers is just following Favre's footsteps, bypassing Minnesota.  
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 25, 2023, 09:53:53 PM
I don't like the later date for the draft.  It's just weeks of additional build-up and makes me feel like it doesn't take place until June.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on April 25, 2023, 10:37:56 PM
I don't like the later date for the draft.  It's just weeks of additional build-up and makes me feel like it doesn't take place until June.
I also don't love that they put it in prime time on Thursday. I love the shorter clock. And granted with all of my kids activities, it's not like I can dedicate a random Saturday in April to watching the draft, but before they moved it, Saturday of the draft was a major day drinking day
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2023, 05:06:16 AM
I didn't watch Levis that much, but when he played the Dawgs he wasn't very impressive at all, to me.  Shroud was impressive, Young was impressive, Levis?  Not.  Richardson was very erratic.  Duggan looked better than the two of them, and his team got creamed.

I don't get the Levis thing, were he to end up UDFA wouldn't have shocked me at all.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 26, 2023, 08:54:20 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/xyGPnzx.png)
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on April 26, 2023, 09:53:52 AM
ROUND 5

Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on April 26, 2023, 09:55:09 AM
I thought Palmer might go earlier with the 40 time he posted
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Riffraft on April 26, 2023, 09:58:48 AM
I also don't love that they put it in prime time on Thursday. I love the shorter clock. And granted with all of my kids activities, it's not like I can dedicate a random Saturday in April to watching the draft, but before they moved it, Saturday of the draft was a major day drinking day
Back in the day I was in a group of guys who all rooted for different teams, we would go to a local establishment and make a day of the opening day of the draft. It was great fun.  Couldn't do it on a Thursday because of work.  TV makes the rules, the local fans and fans that go to the games are completely secondary to the NFL.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on April 26, 2023, 01:22:56 PM
ROUND 6


Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2023, 01:27:38 PM
I kinda get a kick out of how major this event has become over time.  I can see going to a bar to watch with some dudes for fun easily enough.  My low interest in the NFL though precludes my attention to any of this, I might gander at the first round in the news the next day.  Maybe.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 26, 2023, 01:35:42 PM
Yeah, the draft is fun for me, as it's a virtual graduation for the players getting my attention.  I don't care who drafts them, I don't care how they fit in with their new team, I'm just interested in the tools vs production thing.

The nation's leader in sacks, from a helmet program, is mocking in the 150s, while all the pundits are jerking off over an edge guy from Texas Tech in the top 10.  
It's interesting and fun.  
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on April 26, 2023, 01:38:21 PM
it's better than watching the news or the NBA playoffs
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on April 26, 2023, 02:59:58 PM
Washington Redskins decline the 5th year option on former OSU star and top NFL draft pick DE Chase Young. That's two promising careers they've ruined in just the last 10 years or so. Thought RGIII would be a perennial All-Pro QB after his rookie year. Thought the same thing about Young at DE. Guess not.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on April 26, 2023, 03:38:34 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/343138516_897290354673974_8177294404082025217_n.png?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=FdlW0bXBrX8AX-GN_V-&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBtW5Jdgoy-G6J3Gu5XHp6k1cGlT_x-UCLlTd9ATSIcYg&oe=644F0A17)
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on April 26, 2023, 03:43:26 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/343319179_1407755683311046_2089343118485238227_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=a26aad&_nc_ohc=_nNMrP3G4SYAX-FEHH5&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCfIfEhKKDjfN3gcwTWzXxlWM183LxAUV5S3kznzZipRg&oe=644F39EF)
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 26, 2023, 03:46:29 PM
Gotta recruit Florida.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on April 26, 2023, 03:52:05 PM
Gotta recruit Florida.
yup. best talent pool for football players in the entire US and it's not close. don't really know why that is, Cali and Texas both have far more people.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2023, 05:00:12 PM
Florida 22.4 M
Texas  30.3 M
Cali     40.2 M
Ohio    11.9 M
Georgia 11.0 M
Loiuisiana 4.7 M
NC 10.7 M

Those are the states with more than 90 drafted.


Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 26, 2023, 09:32:09 PM
yup. best talent pool for football players in the entire US and it's not close. don't really know why that is, Cali and Texas both have far more people.
Been sayin' it fer years!

(https://i.imgur.com/Csrsy6H.jpg)
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on April 26, 2023, 10:08:54 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/343176967_1209377079771651_5429960501402238568_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=n-7b0VA2vmwAX-LHZgr&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCzGoQGCtY5cX5J6hC_1W_QyUQcjYuCfkO-Ufu6BLLTLA&oe=644F17F5)
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: rook119 on April 27, 2023, 01:15:06 AM
I really like Sean Tucker in the mid-late rounds. 

Lamar needs a burner or a Pickens type who can go up and get. Addison is a route running ace and needs a QB who can hit him w/o breaking stride. Think Addison would ball out on the Chargers. Also PS: don't let him fall to the Chiefs. 

Honestly don't think that was a bad trade for the Jets. At worst Rodgers improves the QB position from putrid to bang avg. and the cap is manageable. They didn't spend much in the way of draft picks either. Jets needed to do something before they have to pay their D.  
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on April 27, 2023, 12:49:40 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/343564701_1380819696150000_6526241605507414988_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=CLgy-lNcZs0AX9ANn0w&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBI398b_KCYUGeA82KGvthxTIiqffux6IR0xT7JO_SPJw&oe=644F4116)
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2023, 12:50:55 PM
https://twitter.com/CFBONFOX/status/1651269917075800065?s=20
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2023, 12:52:38 PM
speaking of Florida....top 10 HS for NFL players drafted over the last 10 years. 1-2-3 are in Florida, and 5 of the top 10 are in Florida. 50% of the top HS in all of 'Merica for NFL players....Florida.

https://twitter.com/MaxPreps/status/1650923184039014403?s=20
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2023, 01:34:54 PM
Is IMG basically a football school?  I guess they have some classes?
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on April 27, 2023, 01:37:14 PM
I saw a head line saying IMG was being sold
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 27, 2023, 02:29:51 PM
Is IMG basically a football school?  I guess they have some classes?
It's actually a very good school for academics. Tuition and fees come close to $100K/year. They don't have much in terms of financial aid either.

Boarding School Academics - Curriculum & Sample Schedules | IMG Academy (https://www.imgacademy.com/boarding-school/academics)
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2023, 02:32:05 PM
Good to hear that, I didn't know.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on April 27, 2023, 02:48:54 PM
ROUND 7

Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on April 27, 2023, 02:49:37 PM
It's actually a very good school for academics. Tuition and fees come close to $100K/year. They don't have much in terms of financial aid either.

Boarding School Academics - Curriculum & Sample Schedules | IMG Academy (https://www.imgacademy.com/boarding-school/academics)
Didn't it start as a tennis academy?

I think it's only become a football hotspot in the past decade or so
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on April 27, 2023, 02:50:25 PM
speaking of Florida....top 10 HS for NFL players drafted over the last 10 years. 1-2-3 are in Florida, and 5 of the top 10 are in Florida. 50% of the top HS in all of 'Merica for NFL players....Florida.

https://twitter.com/MaxPreps/status/1650923184039014403?s=20
I'd be far more curious of a list of public schools.  This just proves football academies draw highly rated football recruits
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 27, 2023, 08:31:25 PM
So far, if I'm listening right, Stroud has armor from God that he should probably share with the tiny, puny Bryce Young.
Rent it or sell it?
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: rook119 on April 27, 2023, 08:42:55 PM
That Colts front office had a "Irsay made this pick" vibe. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 27, 2023, 08:46:26 PM
Maybe the Colts are playing 3-D chess and simply won't call any slant routes.........
.
btw, aging is a sonofabitch - I'm looking at you, Melissa Stark.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2023, 08:50:27 PM
That Colts front office had a "Irsay made this pick" vibe.
Lulz @ the Colts
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2023, 08:52:12 PM
So far, if I'm listening right, Stroud has armor from God that he should probably share with the tiny, puny Bryce Young.
Rent it or sell it?
I think Stroud is going to be a better NFL QB than Young will. Not sure a 5'10, 195 pound guy will last in the NFL playing QB. Yeah they don't get hit like they used to- but they still take unholy punishment. Especially rookies and non-star QBs. Brady/Rodgers guys like that- now Mahomes- have different set of rules than the other QBs. Can't even sneeze on those guys without getting PIs/fouls. Young ain't gonna have that. At least not until he establishes himself as a star.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on April 27, 2023, 08:55:22 PM
Texans trade up to take Will Anderson. Not sure I like that. Think they gave up way too much to move up and take an edge rusher. That team needs A TON of help in the draft over the next few years- they shouldn't be giving up picks like that. They aren't an edge rusher away to being an elite team. They are a bunch of players away.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: MaximumSam on April 27, 2023, 09:04:23 PM
I just realized, just now, that I knew Paris Johnson's dad. He played at Miami and we shared a dorm suite one summer semester. Hot damn now I feel old.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 27, 2023, 09:05:53 PM
The hodge-podge of humanity they have in the fan sections near the stage are truly bizarre.  
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: rook119 on April 27, 2023, 09:11:57 PM
I think Stroud is going to be a better NFL QB than Young will. Not sure a 5'10, 195 pound guy will last in the NFL playing QB. Yeah they don't get hit like they used to- but they still take unholy punishment. Especially rookies and non-star QBs. Brady/Rodgers guys like that- now Mahomes- have different set of rules than the other QBs. Can't even sneeze on those guys without getting PIs/fouls. Young ain't gonna have that. At least not until he establishes himself as a star.
Flutie played on concrete in Canada and rarely got hurt as an old in the NFL. Russel Wilson is a joke now but in his prime despite all the sacks he was on the end of, defenders rarely got a free shot at him. 

He'll be 210-220lb by his 3rd year. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: rook119 on April 27, 2023, 09:33:53 PM
Texans trade up to take Will Anderson. Not sure I like that. Think they gave up way too much to move up and take an edge rusher. That team needs A TON of help in the draft over the next few years- they shouldn't be giving up picks like that. They aren't an edge rusher away to being an elite team. They are a bunch of players away.
They keep on saying pencil him in for 10-12 sacks a year. That's a solid player, but you just spent the No.2 pick on Bud Dupree (who was avail in FA) 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: rook119 on April 27, 2023, 09:42:45 PM
Lions front office celebrating like they had NO IDEA that the 32nd pick in the draft will fall to them at 13. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: slugsrbad on April 27, 2023, 10:19:31 PM
The Lions are having quite a draft... and that's not a compliment.  They should have picked literally anyone at 12 then Gibbs at 18.  Like what are they doing. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on April 28, 2023, 12:42:17 AM
Lions front office celebrating like they had NO IDEA that the 32nd pick in the draft will fall to them at 13.
not a fan of this Lions first round of the draft. At all. Hopefully they make it up on the later rounds.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 28, 2023, 12:48:11 AM
The Seahawks done good.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on April 28, 2023, 01:28:30 AM
The Seahawks done good.
yeah I liked their 1st round. JSN is going to fit in nicely with Lockett and Metcalf. Witherspoon was the top CB on most boards and Pete Carroll is a DB guru. 

I think the Eagles won the night however. Jalen Carter might've been the best football player in the draft, red flags/issues aside. If he can't succeed there- he can't succeed anywhere. If that dude hits....holy hell. Then they got Nolan Smith at the end of the 1st. I probably wouldn't have taken him til the 2nd rd- but again....he's an OLB that ran 4.39 and had a 42" vertical - so yeah- insanely athletic. If he hits as well.....man. 

This is a team that was a c*nt hair away from winning a Super Bowl and has most of that team coming back and just locked up the QB. If just one of those dudes hits over the next 2-3 years- they'll be sitting pretty. If both hit- they'll have a disgusting defense. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on April 28, 2023, 05:31:04 AM
The Lions are having quite a draft... and that's not a compliment.  They should have picked literally anyone at 12 then Gibbs at 18.  Like what are they doing.
Consulting the Browns evidently, who I believe will get a shot at Mr Irrelent 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: bayareabadger on April 28, 2023, 05:42:42 AM
Huh, people figured out the Levis thing? That's good, I suppose. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2023, 08:07:25 AM
I watched about half of the show, I admired how they try and build it up into a thing, they do a pretty good job.  We're in a bit of a lull in sports now so it's good.  I did get bored, it was too repetitive for me.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2023, 08:25:36 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/yjFv8YO.png)

I'm a bit curious to see how they employ Carter and Davis.  I guess they play a 4-3?
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2023, 09:42:41 AM
Do youse guys follow NFLers who played on your CFB team much? 

Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: utee94 on April 28, 2023, 09:50:09 AM
Do youse guys follow NFLers who played on your CFB team much?


Yeah I follow Longhorns in the NFL at least a bit.  Though I'll never root for them when they're playing against my favorite NFL team.

Guess I'll be looking closer at the Falcons this coming year, glad to see Bijan Robinson go so high, he's a good ballcarrier, and a good person by all accounts.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2023, 09:54:18 AM
I rarely watch the NFL, but if I did, I might pay more attention to the Eagles.  Maybe I should give it a try again.

I certainly like Robinson as a RB but personally would never take a RB that high.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: LetsGoPeay on April 28, 2023, 09:54:32 AM
Do youse guys follow NFLers who played on your CFB team much?


I'd love to but I'm an IU fan. Trent Green was pretty good for a while. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2023, 09:54:53 AM
It'll be interesting next year to see where Bowers goes (presuming he comes out).  TEs don't often go Day Uno.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on April 28, 2023, 10:23:31 AM
Lions front office celebrating like they had NO IDEA that the 32nd pick in the draft will fall to them at 13.
Yeah, not a fan of either of their picks
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2023, 10:50:20 AM
There were some weird to me picks for sure.  Some of these teams (Lions) seem to have no apparent clue, but maybe it all turns out well.

I personally would focus on linemen if my team was lagging.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on April 28, 2023, 11:13:15 AM
yup
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on April 28, 2023, 01:03:37 PM
Cowboys star Micah Parsons ecstatic the Cowboys drafted who he wanted them to draft- Mazi Smith - the 337 lbs NT to help clog the middle and keep him clean

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97gbWiMu09o
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 28, 2023, 01:30:21 PM
There were some weird to me picks for sure.  Some of these teams (Lions) seem to have no apparent clue, but maybe it all turns out well.

I personally would focus on linemen if my team was lagging.
The Lions taking Gibbs showed me how much more reserved the "experts" are at picks from out of left field.  
5-6 years ago, they would have ripped the GM to pieces and literally been shouting about "VALUE," etc.  
.
Now, they just say "that's surprising" and go on about the show.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on April 28, 2023, 07:35:48 PM
Lions reach again...taking TE Sam LaPorta from Iowa with the 34th pick overall- taking a guy with a high 2nd rd pick that they probably could've gotten in the 4th or 5th rd....

Brad Holmes crushed the draft last year. Thought that immediately, loved most of those picks. He's stinking up the joint so far this year.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on April 28, 2023, 07:42:17 PM
at least we're not the Titans...

https://twitter.com/AdamRuffPhoto/status/1652092846566981634?s=20
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on April 28, 2023, 07:49:10 PM
Say what you will about this draft, but I feel pretty good about the Lions finishing second in the Big Ten West next year
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on April 28, 2023, 07:54:16 PM
at least we're not the Titans...

https://twitter.com/AdamRuffPhoto/status/1652092846566981634?s=20
High bar to live up to with Titans QB draft busts.  Vince Young, Jake Locker, Marcus Mariota...
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on April 28, 2023, 08:14:28 PM
Finally a pick I like
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on April 28, 2023, 08:31:07 PM
loved the Branch pick from Bama. finally feel like they nailed one.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: MarqHusker on April 28, 2023, 08:57:04 PM
I was nudged to turn this on for the absurdity of the production and the shameless casting of fans in costumed outfits.    It is a bit of a parody.  

Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 28, 2023, 09:03:11 PM
I like the Lions picks just fine.  

They are building an identity. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on April 28, 2023, 09:39:15 PM
I like the Lions picks just fine. 

They are building an identity.
Brian Ferentz?
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 28, 2023, 09:43:13 PM
Brian Ferentz?
😂😂😂
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on April 28, 2023, 09:48:44 PM
I didn't love all of the takes of just taking Hooker, and redshirting him as a young QB.  Because he's already so old for a rookie.  But I think getting him in the third is good value.  I figured he'd go late 2nd.

So the Lions traded down, and still got him in the third.  Don't hate it
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on April 28, 2023, 10:00:17 PM
https://twitter.com/iam_johnw/status/1652091045755101189?t=MAo915l9z8d0Ke0M1KxUPQ&s=19
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on April 28, 2023, 10:16:50 PM
I didn't love all of the takes of just taking Hooker, and redshirting him as a young QB.  Because he's already so old for a rookie.  But I think getting him in the third is good value.  I figured he'd go late 2nd.

So the Lions traded down, and still got him in the third.  Don't hate it
I'd much rather take a flier on Hendon Hooker in the 3rd than take Anthony Richardson in the top 5 or Will Leivs in the 2nd round...

Didn't love the Hooker pick, but I don't hate it. This year wasn't the year to have a top 3 pick or trade up and go all in on a QB- not when Drake Maye and Caleb Williams are both going to be in the 2024 draft. I'd rather stock up draft capital and move up next year and take Maye or Williams if they really want a QB of the future.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on April 28, 2023, 10:41:47 PM
A run on inside LBs?

Also, in the transfer portal arrow I'm very thrown off by Day 2 ILBs coming from WSU and Tulsa.  I maybe get wide receiver, because you were going to get way more targets. Possibly also offensive line, because that generally doesn't rotate so much, that unless there's an injury, you aren't going to get a ton of reps. But I'm very confused as to how solid NFL inside linebackers stuck it out at WSU and Tulsa
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on April 28, 2023, 10:47:18 PM
I'd much rather take a flier on Hendon Hooker in the 3rd than take Anthony Richardson in the top 5 or Will Leivs in the 2nd round...

Didn't love the Hooker pick, but I don't hate it. This year wasn't the year to have a top 3 pick or trade up and go all in on a QB- not when Drake Maye and Caleb Williams are both going to be in the 2024 draft. I'd rather stock up draft capital and move up next year and take Maye or Williams if they really want a QB of the future.
Agreed on Richardson.  Levis, Id have been ok taking in the second, if they didn't move up to get him.  But I'd rather have Hooker in the third.

The only thing I didn't like was the narrative that you could take him early, and give him essentially a redshirt year. Because he's already so old. He played six years in college I think, and is going to miss his entire rookie season. He'll be 26 when he could potentially take his first NFL snap. Lamar Jackson is 26 this season.  But 3rd round is whatever.  How many QBs drafted 3rd round or later become legit NFL starters?  Brady and Wilson are the talking points, because they both greatly exceeded expectations,.and became stars.  But it seems like very few guys taken that late even become solid starters.  Off the top of my head, only Cousins and Prescott are solid starters drafted outside the top 2 rounds
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on April 28, 2023, 11:15:04 PM
Pittsburgh fans are going to love Darnell Washington, and he's a perfect fit for Matt Canadas offense
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on April 28, 2023, 11:18:31 PM
Moody was the most deserving K/P in this draft.  He was first off my board. But early 7th round. You simply cannot take a kicker in the third round
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: MarqHusker on April 28, 2023, 11:51:35 PM
How many extras has the nfl paid and  brought to this?
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on April 29, 2023, 05:17:36 AM
Pittsburgh fans are going to love Darnell Washington, and he's a perfect fit for Matt Canadas offense
He was a crowd favorite any time he caught a pass.  At round 3 he's a nice pick up, I suspect.  
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: bayareabadger on April 29, 2023, 05:34:13 AM
https://twitter.com/iam_johnw/status/1652091045755101189?t=MAo915l9z8d0Ke0M1KxUPQ&s=19
Unrelated, but I really do enjoy that movie. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 29, 2023, 07:05:03 AM
Idk, it seems like today, if you're not a 1st-round QB, you're a project.  Hell, the #4 overall pick is a project this year, lol.
Their egos as 2nd and 3rd-rounders should be in check.
Should.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on April 29, 2023, 07:14:59 AM
Is Bijan Robinson a project?  Broderick Jones?  No doubt they all need refinement at the next level.

The gap in talent between college teams is enormous compared with the NFL where the worst team is actually quite good in the absolute.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on April 29, 2023, 09:00:44 AM
Browns fans were mere spectators for Round 1 of the NFL draft for the second straight year on Thursday night — courtesy of the Deshaun Watson trade, that cost them next years 1st rd pick also. Browns didn't select until the 74th and 98th pick yesterday  :banghead:
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on April 29, 2023, 09:02:20 AM
Brian Ferentz?
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/343784399_206851442087771_1399291057797908022_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=zW42UB4EU5MAX8WcG27&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDwd2qJv7LSpZ7cXnrQto5X_prhf5ctT1SqeR3HOKsK5w&oe=645160A2)
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on April 29, 2023, 09:16:23 AM
https://twitter.com/_MLFootball/status/1651735077598928897?t=oWTz-hoqyL9ca4cKNHa3yQ&s=19
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 29, 2023, 09:18:37 AM
Pittsburgh fans are going to love Darnell Washington, and he's a perfect fit for Matt Canadas offense
I think their also gonna love Keanu Benton. Kid's a beast and a steal where he fell to.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: WhiskeyM on April 29, 2023, 11:06:22 AM
Steelers are absolutely killing it in this draft.

Trading up to steal Jones away from the Jets was priceless.  And a big F U from Belichick to his divisional rival.

Snagging Porter Jr, Benton, and Washington are all solid picks.  It's arguable Porter and Washington are 1st round graded players.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on April 29, 2023, 11:29:35 AM
Michigan TE Luke Schoonmkaer taken in the 2nd round by the Cowboys and CB DJ Turner taken in the 2nd round as well by the Bengals. 

Both seem like reaches to me. I would've thought Schoonmaker would go around round 4. I think he's a decent player. Not exceptional. He can be a quality TE in the rotation, but he's never going to be a high quality starter or star....he's OK.

DJ Turner I wouldn't have touched until the 3rd round, and that's only because he ran a 4.26 in the 40. Dude is pretty MEH as an actual football player playing the CB position...
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on April 29, 2023, 11:32:15 AM
I profess near zero ability to predict how any of these guys will do in the League.  I suspect a handful are "can't miss" barring injury.  Some might get a nagging injury and never reach their potential.  Some may be lazy.  
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on April 29, 2023, 11:33:42 AM
 It's arguable Porter and Washington are 1st round graded players.
well they got Porter at pick #32, which technically....he's a 1st rd pick. There were only 31 picks in the 1st rd bc Dolphins had to surrender their 1st over that whole tampering with Brady saga. 

I agree, both were worthy of 1st rd picks. I'm typically against picking TE's in the 1st rd, but Washington is such a freak show and he adds so much value as a blocker that the upside on a pick in the first from 16-32 is there imo. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on April 29, 2023, 11:35:52 AM
I profess near zero ability to predict how any of these guys will do in the League.  I suspect a handful are "can't miss" barring injury.  Some might get a nagging injury and never reach their potential.  Some may be lazy. 
yeah, it's really all just a crap shoot. lot of it has to do with the situations they go into and if they get lucky and avoid injuries. 

For example....I thought Jake Long was headed to the Hall of Fame after the first 3-4 years of his career- then his body wound up falling apart and breaking down and his career fizzled out. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: CatsbyAZ on April 29, 2023, 12:32:42 PM
Listening to Fox Sports Radio's coverage of the NFL draft, and of all people, FSR has former Cardinals GM Steve Keim co-hosting the broadcast as their lead draft analyst? Steve Keim who dating all the way back to his days as Cardinals Director of Player personnel neglected the Cardinals OL season after season (who himself once played OL at NC State) and whiffed on wasting how many 1st Rd picks to QBs who ended up busts? Matt Leinart, Josh Rosen, now Kyler Murray?
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on April 29, 2023, 01:05:18 PM
don't think it's fair to call Kylar Murray a bust. Not living up to the #1 overall billing? Sure. But he's at least decent with moments of spectacular. Rosen and Leinart? Sure...both huge busts who just couldn't play at the NFL level at all.

btw...your original point still stands....dude was an awful GM lol. But that's all they can get in media....the ones that are terrible and constantly get fired....the good GMs typically stay employed by NFL teams lol. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 29, 2023, 01:37:47 PM
Steelers are absolutely killing it in this draft.

Trading up to steal Jones away from the Jets was priceless.  And a big F U from Belichick to his divisional rival.

Snagging Porter Jr, Benton, and Washington are all solid picks.  It's arguable Porter and Washington are 1st round graded players.
Just took Nick Herbig from Wisconsin. Him and TJ Watt teamed up is gonna be killer, with Benton taking up guys in front.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on April 29, 2023, 01:48:23 PM
I see the Philly Dawgs traded for Deandre Swift
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 29, 2023, 02:37:15 PM
I see the Philly Dawgs traded for Deandre Swift
Gonna trade Hurts for Stafford, too.  
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 29, 2023, 02:39:25 PM
Steelers are absolutely killing it in this draft.

Trading up to steal Jones away from the Jets was priceless.  And a big F U from Belichick to his divisional rival.
So you're not actually into football, just the soap opera narratives made by the talking heads?
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on April 29, 2023, 03:39:52 PM
I see the Philly Dawgs traded for Deandre Swift
Swift was a goner once they took Gibbs at #12. Swift is a really good player, he's just made of glass and is never healthy. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on April 29, 2023, 03:43:41 PM
sneaky good pick of the draft might be Charlie Jones in the 4th round for the Bengals. Obviously they have their star #1 WR JaMarr Chase and Tee Higgins is an excellent #2. Tyler Boyd is pretty good too. Charlie Jones is a great route runner and basically will be wide open all game long because of the other targets in that offense attracting all the attention. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on April 29, 2023, 03:48:38 PM
Seahawks take a pair of Michigan players in the 5th rd, DL Mike Morris and C Olu Oluwatimi. I have no idea why Olu slipped until the 5th rd, maybe bad combine? Regardless, he was a waaaaaaay better football player at Michigan than DJ Turner or Luke Schoonmaker who both went in the 2nd round. I know centers aren't typically drafted high- but I have a feeling he's going to be a really good center in the NFL for a long time and be a much better NFL player than either of his former teammates who went in the 2nd rd. Morris isn't ever going to be a star, but he can be a really good rotational piece in a two deep of an NFL defensive line imo.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on April 29, 2023, 04:02:11 PM
every starting DE/EDGE defender since Harbaugh has been at Michigan has now been drafted, thus far. 

2017: Taco Charlton (Rd 1, Pick 28)
2017: Chris Wormley (Rd 3, Pick 74)
2019: Rashan Gary (Rd 1, Pick 12)
2019: Chase Winovich (Rd 3, Pick 77)
2020: Josh Uche (Rd 2, Pick 60)
2021: Kwity Paye (Rd 1, Pick 21)
2022: Aidan Hutchinson (Rd 1, Pick 2)
2022: David Ojabo (Rd 2, Pick 45) - (would've been 1st rd if he didn't tear his achilles at his pro day)
2023: Mike Morris (Rd 5, Pick 151)
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 29, 2023, 04:32:05 PM
Pats draft kicker and punter in same draft.....first since Raiders in 2000.  Their picks?
K Sebastian Janikowski
P Shane Lechler
.
Lechler is the all-time yards per punt average leader.  
Janikowski is interesting - he had the same issue in college and the NFL.  His leg was so big, coaches were willing to let him attempt stupid-long FGs which hurt is overall accuracy %.
But he was a top-10 all-time kicker.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Honestbuckeye on April 29, 2023, 04:40:37 PM
every starting DE/EDGE defender since Harbaugh has been at Michigan has now been drafted, thus far.

2017: Taco Charlton (Rd 1, Pick 28)
2017: Chris Wormley (Rd 3, Pick 74)
2019: Rashan Gary (Rd 1, Pick 12)
2019: Chase Winovich (Rd 3, Pick 77)
2020: Josh Uche (Rd 2, Pick 60)
2021: Kwity Paye (Rd 1, Pick 21)
2022: Aidan Hutchinson (Rd 1, Pick 2)
2022: David Ojabo (Rd 2, Pick 45) - (would've been 1st rd if he didn't tear his achilles at his pro day)
2023: Mike Morris (Rd 5, Pick 151)

Almost as good as the Buckeyes lol. 😳
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on April 29, 2023, 05:22:54 PM
don't think it's fair to call Kylar Murray a bust. Not living up to the #1 overall billing? Sure. But he's at least decent with moments of spectacular. Rosen and Leinart? Sure...both huge busts who just couldn't play at the NFL level at all.
Ya that year Rosen came out he was suppose to be the standard bearer Josh Allen,Lamar Jackson,Mayfield,Darnold also. i really liked Darnold seemed like a good talented kid with his head screwed on right. Guess he could never get out from under the talent around him. But ya the ballyhoeed Rosen never got off the canvas seemingly
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: rook119 on April 29, 2023, 10:12:17 PM
don't think it's fair to call Kylar Murray a bust. Not living up to the #1 overall billing? Sure. But he's at least decent with moments of spectacular. Rosen and Leinart? Sure...both huge busts who just couldn't play at the NFL level at all.

btw...your original point still stands....dude was an awful GM lol. But that's all they can get in media....the ones that are terrible and constantly get fired....the good GMs typically stay employed by NFL teams lol.
When I watched Arizona I swear I watched DBs running to the spot the ball was going before the WRs even broke their routes. It happened to Murray and the backups. It seemed like the opposing D frequently knew the play. Murray was at his best when the play broke down, so it might have been just awful coaching.  
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on April 30, 2023, 04:46:51 AM
The SEC had  the same number of players drafted as the ACC AND the B12 combined.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: WhiskeyM on April 30, 2023, 08:12:24 AM
Just took Nick Herbig from Wisconsin. Him and TJ Watt teamed up is gonna be killer, with Benton taking up guys in front.

The front office loves the Wisconsin defense.  Blue collar hard nosed players, fit perfectly into Steelers football.

They picked up Nick Herbigs brother, Nate Herbig (OG), from Philly this off-season as well. 

Keeping it in the family has become a Steelers tradition, which has included Carlos and Khalil Davis, Trey and Terrell Edmunds, Derek and TJ Watt, Cameron and Connor Heyward, as well as Joey Porter Jr, son of Steelers pro bowl LB Joey Porter.

Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: WhiskeyM on April 30, 2023, 08:21:38 AM
So you're not actually into football, just the soap opera narratives made by the talking heads?
??

Ask any Jets fan, Belichick has been f'ing them over for 20 years.  That was a calculated move that benefits the Patriots (and Steelers) while screwing a division rival.  There's nothing soap opera about it.

No, definitely don't care about talking heads.  I grew up in Pittsburgh, played football throughout HS, lived with a Purdue OL in college...I've been a genuine fan of the game my entire life.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on April 30, 2023, 08:29:40 AM
I saw a meme saying the entire Dawg starting defense in 2021 has been drafted.  If so, that's a something.

As for Talking Heads, I think posters here mostly ignore them all, with perhaps one or two exceptions.  We might chuckle at some of their chucklers.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on April 30, 2023, 09:20:30 AM
Former Nebraska and Kansas State quarterback Adrian Martinez has signed an undrafted free agent deal with the Detroit Lions, according to Tom Pelissero of NFL Network.

The first three-time captain in Husker football history, Martinez spent four seasons as Nebraska’s starting quarterback before transferring to Manhattan, Kansas, to suit up for Kansas State for his final year.

Martinez owns several career and individual records at Nebraska, including career total offensive yards (10,792), career total offensive yards per game (276.7), most career total 300-yard games (19), most career total 400-yard games (5) and most career 250-yard passing games (16).

For his career at Nebraska, Martinez threw for a combined 8,491 yards, 45 touchdowns and 30 interceptions while completing 64 percent of his passes. A true dual-threat, the California native and former four-star recruit in the Class of 2018 rushed for a combined 2,301 yards and 35 scores.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 30, 2023, 12:46:27 PM
Was he going to keep his starting job if he stayed at Nebraska?
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on April 30, 2023, 01:12:43 PM
I doubt it

Casey Thompson was just better.
and the fans were tired of losing - needed a change
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on April 30, 2023, 01:24:12 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/344026678_6375887589137727_3359184986105555634_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=U-Kc7fboeY8AX9xBZTF&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDz-vxPUfC3hfpCkcVoIQ819vmKLPtnbMy_necNaV0mhQ&oe=64542B7B)
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 30, 2023, 01:36:16 PM
I doubt it

Casey Thompson was just better.
and the fans were tired of losing - needed a change
Kind of makes that resume sort of moot, no?
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on April 30, 2023, 02:01:28 PM
30 ints and way too many fumbles leading to loses makes all the other numbers moot
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on April 30, 2023, 04:13:51 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/343314545_486854710245588_969952643962098328_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=a26aad&_nc_ohc=uOwB_txb60oAX-1pJAJ&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBisy6NKUpUXunvAV-55iHfmqiRjkli2dAHhwu7bWWfmg&oe=6452CE75)
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 30, 2023, 04:41:51 PM
Why would they put the Jets' logo?  He was drafted by Denver.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: WhiskeyM on April 30, 2023, 04:52:39 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/344026678_6375887589137727_3359184986105555634_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=U-Kc7fboeY8AX9xBZTF&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDz-vxPUfC3hfpCkcVoIQ819vmKLPtnbMy_necNaV0mhQ&oe=64542B7B)

Nice to see Pitt with so many picks.  They tend to produce NFL talent, but can't seem to put together a complete season.  It's unfortunate the city is far and away a pro sports town.

Purdue had 5 players drafted this year, which was the most since the 2004 class (which had an admirable 9 players drafted).
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on April 30, 2023, 05:09:47 PM
Marino, Green, Fitzgerald, Revis, Donald, Dorset.

If you had to pick an NFL team, solely by looking at their NFL alums, you would certainly choose Pitt way higher than you should
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 30, 2023, 07:40:50 PM
Here's a recent list of rookie FA signings by NFL team:
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2023-nfl-undrafted-free-agent-tracker-team-by-team-list-of-prospect-signings-after-nfl-draft/ (https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2023-nfl-undrafted-free-agent-tracker-team-by-team-list-of-prospect-signings-after-nfl-draft/)

Notables:
The Lions grabbed Ibrahim from Minnesota.  
Arkansas LB Bumper Pool to Panthers.
Army EDGE Andre Carter II to Vikings.
UL QB Malik Cunningham to Pats.
Texas RET D'Shawn Jamison to 49ers
Minny QB Tanner Morgan to Steelers.

Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on April 30, 2023, 08:17:10 PM
The NFL draft, which starts tonight, was caused by a 23-year-old who grew up in Inver Grove and starred in football for South St. Paul High School.
Stan Kostka, an All-American running back for the University of Minnesota, prompted an intense bidding war among NFL owners in 1935, inking the largest contract in NFL history. His record-setting $5,000 contract and $500 bonus far exceeded the pay of other players, even stars like Bronko Nagurski.
The bidding war over Stan Kostka unsettled the NFL's owners so much that they started the NFL draft in 1936.
Interestingly, in the midst of Stan's holdout for the highest NFL contract in history, he ran for mayor of Inver Grove. While Stan did not win, one of his fellow players on the 1935 All-American team was Gerald Ford, who became President in 1974.


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/335647173_750720416491727_4921292943055162417_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=ra-Ggxc7MogAX_zHqUY&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfD87Xd2m3i_JvkINox7QTz5yx9tno--MvHdZCXYvSFpBQ&oe=645458C4)
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on April 30, 2023, 08:17:33 PM
Shocked that Carter went undrafted, unless there is still a rule regarding his Army service
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 01, 2023, 12:03:40 AM
He also had 11 fewer sacks this year.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: rook119 on May 01, 2023, 01:05:41 AM
Nice to see Pitt with so many picks.  They tend to produce NFL talent, but can't seem to put together a complete season.  It's unfortunate the city is far and away a pro sports town.

Purdue had 5 players drafted this year, which was the most since the 2004 class (which had an admirable 9 players drafted).
Usually Pitt teams can't put it all together because they always have 1-2 positions that are a straight up dumpster fire. Last year it was OL, which was supposed to be really good w/ all 5 starters back but it was Pickett who made them look better than they were. 

1/2 of Allegheny Co. are PSU fans and the majority of SW PA is PSU as well. Not to mention Allegheny Co is one of the oldest in the nation and they stay home. City doing well now but from about 1980-2008 you went to Pitt to get a degree and got a job in another state. There just isn't a huge local alumni base. 

Pitt does have a track record of good TV ratings tho. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on May 01, 2023, 06:06:17 AM
Did TCU have so many picks because they had that many good players or because they made the Finals?
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on May 01, 2023, 09:00:34 AM
winning solves everything
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 01, 2023, 01:24:54 PM
Did TCU have so many picks because they had that many good players or because they made the Finals?
If anyone ever becomes enamored with how smart NFL GMs are.....ask them this question.  
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 01, 2023, 01:25:45 PM
Usually Pitt teams can't put it all together because they always have 1-2 positions that are a straight up dumpster fire. Last year it was OL, which was supposed to be really good w/ all 5 starters back but it was Pickett who made them look better than they were.

1/2 of Allegheny Co. are PSU fans and the majority of SW PA is PSU as well. Not to mention Allegheny Co is one of the oldest in the nation and they stay home. City doing well now but from about 1980-2008 you went to Pitt to get a degree and got a job in another state. There just isn't a huge local alumni base.

Pitt does have a track record of good TV ratings tho.
So.....they have everything needed to start a 24 hour news network?
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on May 01, 2023, 01:29:37 PM
TCU got a lot of exposure.  Had they lost a close game or three back when, with the same players, how many draft picks would have gone their way?  I'm not disputing they didn't have that many good players, maybe they did, Duggan was solid.  TCU is an outlier of course, in at least two ways.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: rook119 on May 01, 2023, 02:12:19 PM
So.....they have everything needed to start a 24 hour news network?
The ACCN cornered the market selling ads to hock Scottish Spoons, Irish collanders and Tactical Soap on a rope to the masses. It would be though for Pitt to go alone. 
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on May 01, 2023, 02:50:27 PM
TCU got a lot of exposure.  Had they lost a close game or three back when, with the same players, how many draft picks would have gone their way?  I'm not disputing they didn't have that many good players, maybe they did, Duggan was solid.  TCU is an outlier of course, in at least two ways.
Did the exposure they got against Georgia help them?  More like exposed
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on May 02, 2023, 02:04:36 AM
https://twitter.com/slmandel/status/1652448087242330113?s=20
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 02, 2023, 05:45:23 AM
Ouch.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2023, 05:46:41 AM
A&M will be an interesting program to watch this coming season.  I know the buy out is high.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on May 02, 2023, 01:50:51 PM
A&M will be an interesting program to watch this coming season.  I know the buy out is high.
Idk how they can justify keeping him at this point. 

Worst $100 mil ever spent by a college program and it's not even close....
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2023, 01:59:23 PM
I half predict A&M will be extremely weird and beat Bama and LSU and lose to Ole Miss and Arky.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on May 02, 2023, 02:06:59 PM
which half?
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 09:45:04 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/fnVG7d4.png)
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on May 03, 2023, 09:56:16 AM
hopefully, Coach Rhule will be able to develop the in-state talent at UNL
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 03, 2023, 10:02:26 AM
From 247:


Steelers head coach Mike Tomlin (https://247sports.com/Coach/Mike-Tomlin-3362) said the organization's penchant for drafting former Wisconsin players has a lot to do with the similarities between the programs.


“Sometimes a place like Wisconsin is a stylistic match,” Tomlin said via Pittsburgh's YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4iZ9D2pMhY). “I have always had a lot of respect for Jim Leonhard (https://247sports.com/Player/Jim-Leonhard-76177), their former (defensive) coordinator. They do a lot of similar things that we do. It makes it an easy evaluation. There is less speculation in terms of what they might be able to do in our system.”
Leonhard, who played safety for the Badgers from 2001-04, returned to UW as defensive backs coach in 2016 and became defensive coordinator a year later. His units consistently ranked among the nation's best.
"I think there are some similarities (with what we do)," Pittsburgh defensive coordinator Teryl Austin (https://247sports.com/Coach/Teryl-Austin-149) said via the Steelers website. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_xC8xWS4TU) "But they are some good football players. When you look at a lot of those guys, they kind of fit a Steeler mold."
"They are tough, hard-nosed, blue-collar guys," Austin said. "You know what you're getting when you get a guy from that school. He's going to be tough, he's going to be physical and he's going to give you everything he has. I think there is a comfort level in that."

Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: ELA on May 03, 2023, 07:05:32 PM
Idk how they can justify keeping him at this point.

Worst $100 mil ever spent by a college program and it's not even close....
LSU having an opening got a few unqualified coaches a pay day
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 04, 2023, 02:21:11 AM
CA below GA?  Yowza.  What do they play out there, 7-on-7?  

Maybe SoCal is a dried-up pool nowadays.
Title: Re: 2023 NFL Draft Thread
Post by: FearlessF on May 16, 2023, 10:18:53 AM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/346651896_1691348484619553_8217668222567341618_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=C3lPR-je_0wAX8Yj6vW&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDI2sopd1rDt_BLylRlxxCdZZghGzobzEv0vPEktQ9mOQ&oe=6468BFF0)