So they are basically screwed until Harbaugh retires, no matter what they do?They could hire Nick Saban but they already tried that once and I don't think it would help.
So they are basically screwed until Harbaugh retires, no matter what they do?And Franklin at PSU, no?
Franklin's getting all the Michigan recruits too?It's not about state lines, all of the name programs are recruiting all the top players in the area.
Franklin's getting all the Michigan recruits too?Not really,he's atually keeping alot of the Pa.kids home though
Dantonio is an excellent coach. He needed to make changes last year but didn’t out of loyalty to his staff. Changes need to happen this off season. And they need to figure out and defeat the injury bug.Ya,this is what stuck in the craws of MSU fans.MD simply rotated his coaches evidently created leaks everywhere.I don't know if I've ever seen a good program lose as much top talent as Sparty in the last 2-3 off seasons thru expulsions,transfers,injuries.MD has created some of the problems,but hanging onto Jim Bollman,great guy but no creative genuis has run it's course.Coaches doing the same thing over and over expecting different results is ludicrous,seen that in C-Bus.Have to change with the times or lose the games and the program
The downward movement of MSU correlates with the time Harbaugh started coaching Michigan (2015), and started drawing his recruits to Michigan. I am guessing competition with Harbaugh, a more powerful Michigan, and a Michigan doing better at recruiting would explain much of the reason for Michigan State's slumping record.Harbaugh isn't really winning any recruiting battles against MSU, MSU hasn't really been in any recruiting battles against Michigan. The bigger hit has been Stoops at Kentucky and Fickell at Cincinnati. We've been consistently losing those tier 2 Ohio recruits to those schools, that OSU didn't want, that we used to win.
The Harbaugh roster isn't nearly as loaded as the Carr rosters were, and Penn St does the bulk of their recruiting out East.While true guys like Winovich,chad henne and others who were ballers came from PA.If anything Franklin can sell the Nittany Lions to kids at home that sometimes/previously would bolt
Dantonio had most of his recruiting success in Ohio, while Urban was off casting a wide, National net.
The Harbaugh roster isn't nearly as loaded as the Carr rosters were, and Penn St does the bulk of their recruiting out East.While they have a ton of kids from MD, PSU has 10 players from MI and OH, including their starting QB and best WR.
Dantonio had most of his recruiting success in Ohio, while Urban was off casting a wide, National net.
While true guys like Winovich,chad henne and others who were ballers came from PA.If anything Franklin can sell the Nittany Lions to kids at home that sometimes/previously would boltYeah, suggesting MSU's and PSU's recruiting circles don't intersect just seems flat wrong to me. It's prudent to think a stronger PSU is worse for MSU than a weak one. Maybe you put it better than I did.
I have heard names like Pat Narduzi, Phil Parker, chris creighten, Matt Campbell, thrown out there
But I don't believe that meets your criteria of MSU getting somebody that could do better than Dantonio.
Edit: MSU hiring Narduzzi would be equivalent to Florida’s hire of Mullen. Experience, positive ties to program, and realistic.Pretty spot on,Mullen - I've always liked and is dialed in.He'll have them back in seriouis contention and Duzz would fit nicely in EL,if they go that route
Oh, that reminds me.Didn't Fla offer Frost?Either way they're good with Mullen,SF has a much higher mountaint to climb based on talent availability
2018 Top 3 HC hires:
.
19-4 DM
8-14 SF
7-15 CK
While they have a ton of kids from MD, PSU has 10 players from MI and OH, including their starting QB and best WR.
If you could just have a conversation and get over that you're having it with me (gasp!)....10 players isn't anything to scoff at. If 10 random players were hurt and out for the year, ask any fan, it derails your whole season. And to poo-poo it when the starting QB and their biggest offensive threat are from MI....you look silly.
Wow, ten entire players? Well MSU should just throw in the towel. There's no way they can field a competitive FB team with that type of penetration into their recruiting base.
I'm sure the Leos never had a whopping 10 players from MI and OH combined until Franklin showed up. What an unfortunate turn of events.
So if Franklin wasn't there then all ten would be at MSU, competing for B1G East Titles?Penn State certainly wouldn’t be the only reason for the talent depletion but it definitely could be a contributor. If you lose 1-2 battles a year to Michigan, 1-2 to Penn State, and a couple each to Cincinnati and Kentucky that has a cumulative effect.
Nice. I think I'm the first one to ever wear him down.That's how ridiculous you're being, yes.
That's how ridiculous you're being, yes.
What would MSU fans view as a "solid decade of performance" 2020-2029?if they averaged eight wins the season, and are generally competitive against the big three in the division, I think that would be enough. That would mean a couple of 10-win seasons in the mix which might be enough to get to Indianapolis, mixed in with maybe some 6 win seasons. Winning the division, is tough to gauge the way Ohio state is rolling right now. In the decade that there's been a championship game, Penn State has only been once, and Michigan has never been. so if you're going to judge by division titles than everybody except Ohio State and Michigan state is a failure in the east
I don't mean unrealistic goals, but what would be considered a solid decade. Do they have to win the B1G E at some point?
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Simply extending your "argument" to it's logical conclusion. I don't blame you from backing away from it though. It was pretty bad.If that's logic to you, good luck. Move on.
Nobody expects the 2010-2015 run to be anything more than once a generation...if that1
2
2019 (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/michigan-state/2019.html) Big Ten (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/conferences/big-ten/2019.html) 4 6 0 .400 5.93 9.13 18 18 Mark Dantonio (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/coaches/mark-dantonio-1.html) (4-6) 3
2018 (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/michigan-state/2018.html) Big Ten (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/conferences/big-ten/2018.html) 7 6 0 .538 6.01 5.08 11 11 Mark Dantonio (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/coaches/mark-dantonio-1.html) (7-6) Redbox Bowl (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/bowls/fight-hunger-bowl.html)-L 4
2017 (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/michigan-state/2017.html) Big Ten (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/conferences/big-ten/2017.html) 10 3 0 .769 13.83 7.68 13 15 Mark Dantonio (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/coaches/mark-dantonio-1.html) (10-3) Holiday Bowl (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/bowls/holiday-bowl.html)-W 5
2016 (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/michigan-state/2016.html) Big Ten (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/conferences/big-ten/2016.html) 3 9 0 .250 -1.79 4.29 12 8 Mark Dantonio (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/coaches/mark-dantonio-1.html) (3-9) 6
2015 (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/michigan-state/2015.html) Big Ten (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/conferences/big-ten/2015.html) 12 2 0 .857 15.36 6.58 5 2 6 Mark Dantonio (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/coaches/mark-dantonio-1.html) (12-2) Cotton Bowl (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/bowls/cotton-bowl.html)-L 7
2014 (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/michigan-state/2014.html) Big Ten (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/conferences/big-ten/2014.html) 11 2 0 .846 16.07 1.68 8 5 5 Mark Dantonio (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/coaches/mark-dantonio-1.html) (11-2) Cotton Bowl (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/bowls/cotton-bowl.html)-W 8
2013 (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/michigan-state/2013.html) Big Ten (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/conferences/big-ten/2013.html) 13 1 0 .929 14.74 0.67 3 3 Mark Dantonio (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/coaches/mark-dantonio-1.html) (13-1) Rose Bowl (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/bowls/rose-bowl.html)-W 9
2012 (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/michigan-state/2012.html) Big Ten (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/conferences/big-ten/2012.html) 7 6 0 .538 6.21 3.75 13 10 Mark Dantonio (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/coaches/mark-dantonio-1.html) (7-6) Buffalo Wild Wings Bowl (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/bowls/cactus-bowl.html)-W 10
2011 (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/michigan-state/2011.html) Big Ten (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/conferences/big-ten/2011.html) 11 3 0 .786 10.05 1.48 17 9 11 Mark Dantonio (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/coaches/mark-dantonio-1.html) (11-3) Outback Bowl (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/bowls/outback-bowl.html)-W
2010 (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/michigan-state/2010.html) Big Ten (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/conferences/big-ten/2010.html) 11 2 0 .846 9.91 1.29 5 14 Mark Dantonio (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/coaches/mark-dantonio-1.html) (11-2) Capital One Bowl (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/bowls/citrus-bowl.html)-L
They appear to be doing better than 8 wins a season over the last decade. That is about 9 wins per season.
I have heard names like Pat Narduzi, Phil Parker, chris creighten, Matt Campbell, thrown out there
But I don't believe that meets your criteria of MSU getting somebody that could do better than Dantonio.
I wonder if MSU could get somebody like Notre Dame's Brian Kelly. I believe he let's it leak from time to time he is frustrated at ND. And I believe he has a Midwestern background.
Given Dantonio's teams over the past decade have averaged 9 wins a season, has he not earned a couple of "off years"?Yes, this is a fine down year. But this shouldn't be a down year. This is a team loaded with experience. A good deal of them were starters on a 10-3 team two years ago. If they went 10-3 this year, then 6-6 next year, in a rebuilding year, sure. But this looks like a 4-8 team at best next year.
Given Dantonio's teams over the past decade have averaged 9 wins a season, has he not earned a couple of "off years"?With it being 3 out of the last 4 years being “off years” I suspect that is where the frustration is stemming from. The cupboards look fairly light on talent for next year too, no matter the coaching staff decisions made in the offseason.
Paid big bucks to problem solve and placating friends instead of improving the program is the rub IMO.He must acknowledge the need to change things whether players,coaches,alignments schemes and i don't think the faithful are seeing thatThat's the thing... I'm sure that he and the AD have been talking, and the AD told him "fix the f'ing offense".
I have, and they said no.The sad reality of sports is so many prefer hope without present success to present success without a sense of hope attached.
Ask Nebraska fans if they'd like Bo Pelini's 9 win seasons again.I'd take 9 win seasons. He's failed to do that in 3 of the past 4 years, and there's no chance he gets there next year, which is a legit rebuilding season. If they didn't have the bad losses, and could upset 1 of the 4 big boys, finish 9-3, then nobody would complain about 6-6 next year. But they lost two unforgivable games, and weren't even competitive against OSU, UW, PSU or UM.
That's the thing... I'm sure that he and the AD have been talking, and the AD told him "fix the f'ing offense".The AD should do/say precisely that
Dantonio tried it his own way [shuffle the deck chairs] and the AD is probably going to tell him in the offseason "this ship is still sinking--here's what you're going to do [hire a new up-and-coming OC and give him free reign] and if you don't like it, we'll let you 'retire' instead."
Ask Nebraska fans if they'd like Bo Pelini's 9 win seasons again.Hell, ask them if they'd like to be winning 9 games a season running the option (Solich).
Hell, ask them if they'd like to be winning 9 games a season running the option (Solich).Solich running the option with Pelini's defense in the Big 12 had potential
I talk to a quite a few Badger fans, but not as much as I used to. Most are pretty reasonable - they mostly want to keep doing what they do. Win 9-10, get to a good bowl game, challenge for Indy, blah.😂😂
There are some who want more - who want to see playoffs, MNC's, blah. I generally tell them to move to Columbus.
I talk to a quite a few Badger fans, but not as much as I used to. Most are pretty reasonable - they mostly want to keep doing what they do. Win 9-10, get to a good bowl game, challenge for Indy, blah.this is what reasonable Husker fans want
There are some who want more - who want to see playoffs, MNC's, blah. I generally tell them to move to Columbus.
That's the thing... I'm sure that he and the AD have been talking, and the AD told him "fix the f'ing offense".This is exactly what needs to be done. The main one that I keep an eye on is Jim Bollman because he was so comically incompetent at Ohio State. The difference is that when he was OC/OL Coach at Ohio State he was comically incompetent with nearly all 5* players so the end result was still reasonably good. Now he has been OC and then OL Coach at MSU where 5* recruits don't grow on trees for seven years and the results have been pathetic. There is absolutely no reason for him to be drawing a paycheck from MSU. If Dantonio is unwilling or unable to see that then he should be told the following by MSU's AD:
Dantonio tried it his own way [shuffle the deck chairs] and the AD is probably going to tell him in the offseason "this ship is still sinking--here's what you're going to do [hire a new up-and-coming OC and give him free reign] and if you don't like it, we'll let you 'retire' instead."
Then you look at that 2016 class I posted earlier. 11 of the top 12 and I think 17 kids overall from that class are gone. Either booted or transferred. That is the class that would be comprising your RS juniors and true seniors right now, and it's non-existent. Then behind them you have all of the Plan B kids after Kentucky and Cincinnati took your Plan A kids. And those Plan B should be your Plan C, but you've abandoned true Plan A kids because you are so jaded from that 2016 class.
Even Gopher fans insisted that they didn't regret running off Mason, and they were a train wreck for like a decade after that. People are stubborn.When the AD follows firing Mase with hiring a blowhard, used car salesman, NFL TE coach with no coordinator or HC experience, the result was very predictable.
When the AD follows firing Mase with hiring a blowhard, used car salesman, NFL TE coach with no coordinator or HC experience, the result was very predictable.True, but they at least had an identity. You knew they'd have good tailbacks, and a sound running game. Sorta like a poor man's Wisconsin. They didn't have any identity after that, until the Fleckster showed up. Just scary bad.
Mase had success, but not near the levels of Dantonio. Dantonio’s teams have historically closed out games. In Mason’s biggest games the Gophers squandered games that seemed impossible to blow
MD needs to hire Matt Canada as OC, and let him have complete autonomy. Done.Actually Canada would be great at Wisconsin. Give him an OL, FB and RB and damn that offense he runs is so beautiful.
Actually Canada would be great at Wisconsin. Give him an OL, FB and RB and damn that offense he runs is so beautiful.He was there in 2012 so I think that was his point..... Honestly I'm not sure why he's out of coaching this year, since I would think he could've easily gotten some type of job at one of his previous schools (Northern Illinois, Wisconsin, Indiana, NC State, Pittsburgh, LSU), if only an analyst role... Maybe he just wanted a year off, though.
What happened? Of the 9 recruits ranked in the top 300 nationally (Scout.com rankings):.......Nice job CA,I know WR Corley,QB DeWeaver and perhaps it was DE Josh King were suppose to factor in and had high hopes for.The rest couldn't hurt but there was another in that group with promise.That was evisceration right there that MD/MSU couldn't for what ever reason overcome
Go to Austin,highly recommended,much betterI've heard of people getting their kidney's stolen in Austin. In Columbus, they take their kidney's and their lungs. :a102:
He was there in 2012 so I think that was his point..... Honestly I'm not sure why he's out of coaching this year, since I would think he could've easily gotten some type of job at one of his previous schools (Northern Illinois, Wisconsin, Indiana, NC State, Pittsburgh, LSU), if only an analyst role... Maybe he just wanted a year off, though.
Actually Canada would be great at Wisconsin. Give him an OL, FB and RB and damn that offense he runs is so beautiful.As 87 said, he was in Madison for BB's last season after Chryst left for Pitt. BB handcuffed him all season though (which some of the players acknowledged).
Mark Dantonio plans to be back in 2020.If Bollman, Warner, Staten and Samuel are ALL gone, I would be ok with that.
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state-university/2019/11/19/michigan-state-spartans-mark-dantonio-my-intention-here/4237463002/ (https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state-university/2019/11/19/michigan-state-spartans-mark-dantonio-my-intention-here/4237463002/)
Hell, ask them if they'd like to be winning 9 games a season running the option (Solich).I'd prefer this.... but I'm old. =)
Coaching changes are risky business. No guarantee the program will go in the right direction afterwards no matter how good the hire looked.Very much so. I saw the risk first-hand when BB left and King Barry hired Gerry. After his two years of being a misfit, the program was at a crossroads. UW was very lucky Chryst was available at that time, even though a lot of fans did not like the hire.
So yes. Luck is involved too.Lots and lots of luck because I think "fit" is a big part of it. Saban has been an absolute wizard at Bama, but would he be equally above the long-term average at MSU (he wasn't), at Boise State (I doubt it), etc.
Very much so. I saw the risk first-hand when BB left and King Barry hired Gerry. After his two years of being a misfit, the program was at a crossroads. UW was very lucky Chryst was available at that time, even though a lot of fans did not like the hire.That's my only argument against the MSU people who question whether you trust basically a placeholder AD to handle this. I mean no, but does it matter? I don't believe Tressel was OSU's first choice. Florida only got Mullen after missing on Chip Kelly and Tom Herman. I don't necessarily trust him, but I'm not sure it matters, absent a total public bungling like Tennessee.
So yes. Luck is involved too.
Fickell, Campbell and Narduzzi (in that order) would be my top 3. But Chris Creighton (who just got EMU bowl eligible for the 3rd time in 4 years) and Chris Klieman (Kansas State) also interest meYes he's done a good job in a tough spot,think he is 50 or so.I'd be all over Campbell if he's interested.Ha listen to us like it's a foregone conclusion
I'm not sure why people seem to crap on Saban's MSU tenure. He left after a 9-2 season with all his players comprising the roster.Because he left MSU with his tail up his ass.
Because he left MSU with his tail up his ass.If you would just come out of your shell a little. 😂😂
Because he left MSU with his tail up his ass.So he shouldn't have gone to a better program?
Very much so. I saw the risk first-hand when BB left and King Barry hired Gerry. After his two years of being a misfit, the program was at a crossroads. UW was very lucky Chryst was available at that time, even though a lot of fans did not like the hire.I mean, for as many weird moments as Anderson had, he didn't mess up the program all that much. It was mostly fine.
So yes. Luck is involved too.
Yes he's done a good job in a tough spot,think he is 50 or so.I'd be all over Campbell if he's interested.Ha listen to us like it's a foregone conclusionWere he hired at MSU, he'd be about a month older than Dantonio.
I'm guessing you mean when Dantonio started?Looked him up Creighton was born in 1969Yeah, Creighton would be almost exactly a month older than Dantonio was when he was hired.
That's my only argument against the MSU people who question whether you trust basically a placeholder AD to handle this. I mean no, but does it matter? I don't believe Tressel was OSU's first choice. Florida only got Mullen after missing on Chip Kelly and Tom Herman. I don't necessarily trust him, but I'm not sure it matters, absent a total public bungling like Tennessee.I wonder if Klieman would take the MSU job.
Fickell, Campbell and Narduzzi (in that order) would be my top 3. But Chris Creighton (who just got EMU bowl eligible for the 3rd time in 4 years) and Chris Klieman (Kansas State) also interest me
So he shouldn't have gone to a better program?Was LSU really a better program? Or, was it the only major one in the state?
I mean, for as many weird moments as Anderson had, he didn't mess up the program all that much. It was mostly fine.If he stayed another 2-3 years, it would not have been fine. We saw what he did to the OL. We saw how he started to abandon in-state recruiting. We saw what he did to Stave.
(Also, fans who didn't like the PC hire are the delusional sort who think the right hire is gonna have UW contending for the playoffs consistently. Those fans live a life of disappointment)
Was LSU really a better program? Or, was it the only major one in the state?What’s the difference? It wasn’t a red-headed stepchild.
MSU is basically the Auburn of the B1G. It's got some recognition in its own right, but even when it bullies Big Brother around it sill has to face an uphill battle for recruits because Sparty doesn't have the same resources M has (or OSU, PSU, etc. for that matter). Every ounce of respect it gets is earned, and not given.Yep, which is why Saban left for an easier path.
Was LSU really a better program? Or, was it the only major one in the state?Bingo. LSU was an inferior program to MSU.
Bingo. LSU was an inferior program to MSU.Long-term LSU is a historic underachiever which made it the perfect destination. Even if Saban had only been moderately successful there he would still have been revered by the fanbase because they don't quite have Bama/tOSU level expectations.
Saban left because he ain't stupid. He flat out said he'd never be able to overtake Michigan in-state and he also knew that Louisana produced a shit-ton of high-quality football recruits and LSU was the only legit program in the entire state and that he wouldn't have to share those recruits with other in-state schools or play second fiddle to any in-state schools.
LSU is the only major program, but it's in a smallish state. I wouldn't consider it an underachiever. They've done remarkably well over the decades. I view UGA as the biggest underachiever out there. I guess I'm jaded.Louisiana might have the most football talent in the country per capita. Small state, but TONS of talent.
Louisiana might have the most football talent in the country per capita. Small state, but TONS of talent.Yes, and those kids tend to stay home too.
Lots of states have a flagship and a land grant (agriculture) school.Oklahoma/Oklahoma State
Texas / aTm
Alabama / Auburn
South Carolina / Clemson
Ole Miss / msu
UNC / NC State
UVA / VT
Iowa / Iowa State
Indiana / Purdue
MSU is basically the Auburn of the B1G. It's got some recognition in its own right, but even when it bullies Big Brother around it sill has to face an uphill battle for recruits because Sparty doesn't have the same resources M has (or OSU, PSU, etc. for that matter). Every ounce of respect it gets is earned, and not given.zactly
Yep, which is why Saban left for an easier path.LSU and MSU were both near-.500 programs the decade before Saban coached at either. One of them had no in-state obstacles and the other had the #1 all-time leader in wins. Faulting Saban for seeing this and moving on shouldn't be looked down upon. It was smart.
I view UGA as the biggest underachiever out there. I guess I'm jaded.This is why many couldn't figure out the Richt thing.The same scenario in C-Bus with Cooper :-[ ,nice guy perhaps but not taking you to where you need to be.And scarcely a trained eye couldn't see it for quite some time.The Head Coach doesn't have to be R Lee Ermey but certainly can't stand pat with Edith Bunker either
I'll never not respect Barry Alvarez, for the sole reason that he turned down both Notre Dame (when they launched Davie) and Miami (when Donna got there) to stay in Madison and see things through.he had a solid mentor
Oklahoma/Oklahoma StateSoutheast community college/University of Nebraska
Kansas/Kansas State
New Mexico and New Mexico State
Colorado/Colorado State
North Carolina/North Carolina State
Oregon/Oregon State
South Carolina/Clemson
Utah/Utah State
Virginia/Virginia Tech
Washington/Washington State
I'll never not respect Barry Alvarez, for the sole reason that he turned down both Notre Dame (when they launched Davie) and Miami (when Donna got there) to stay in Madison and see things through.I thought--and I don't know, so correct me if I'm wrong--that Alvarez got mad at ND for not considering him when Holtz retired, so when Davie went (and he had just had his best two years in Madison), he said no. I know that in 2007 he felt no love lost for ND.
I'm no in-demand college football coach, but I'm sure that I'm not alone in feeling like finding and building a home is more important than making more money. Of course I'd like to make more, but I wouldn't trade it for my family and community.I've always sort of thought this. Once I got to the P5, I can't imagine ever switching jobs, other than to go back to MSU. But even then, I say that as a fan with one allegiance, not a coach who has maybe worked at a dozen schools since playing at his alma mater.
I'll never not respect Barry Alvarez, for the sole reason that he turned down both Notre Dame (when they launched Davie) and Miami (when Donna got there) to stay in Madison and see things through.I know in the '90s The Vest was offered the Huricanes deal 2-3 yrs before the Buckeyes snagged him
Yeah, but it's not an either/or thing. You can have family and community at a helmet school, too.
I'm no in-demand college football coach, but I'm sure that I'm not alone in feeling like finding and building a home is more important than making more money. Of course I'd like to make more, but I wouldn't trade it for my family and community.
Yeah, but it's not an either/or thing. You can have family and community at a helmet school, too.I think he means Barry leaving for ND/Miami, once he was a decade plus into his Wisconsin career. At that point, why relocate?
I see it akin to those who poopoo recruiting stars, arguing you want the 3-star kids who work hard and put the team first. Actually, you want the 5-star kids who will do that - they'll win more games. You don't have to choose talent OR dedication, you can find both.
I think he means Barry leaving for ND/Miami, once he was a decade plus into his Wisconsin career. At that point, why relocate?I think he really thought he could get an MNC at Wisconsin, after winning those two Rose Bowls.
Guys that played Linebacker in the 60s usually weren't the smartestI guess we could have played Linebacker in the 60's
especially after their playing careers