CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: Drew4UTk on December 04, 2018, 08:58:33 AM
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do wha?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/bigten/2018/12/04/urban-meyer-retire-ohio-state-coach-ryan-day/2200199002/
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2pm press conference
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I repeatedly saw him on TV having apparent issues, bending over and head down, away from team during breaks in the game.
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Loved the time he spent here at Ohio State.
Pissed the President was an ass towards him.
I think stepping down may be the best choice to take care of his health.
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Some pretty good/funny remarks from Michigan Fans -
-Hmm, Ryan Day is the replacement. Ever notice how an Ohio State head coach's name has to have 10 letters or less?
Woody Hayes
Earle Bruce
Jim Tressel
Urban Meyer
Ryan Day
Then, of course, there was Luke Fickell. Eleven letters. Fans got confused. He had to go immediately.
-The devil called him and said he wants his soul back.
,-Dammit boys, he's getting away!
-The university finally recovered all of his deleted text messages ...
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Well, he's retiring from OSU. I would be very surprised if he's not back on the sidelines somewhere in the next few years.
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This deserves its own thread for sure, outside of the coaching thread we have. I'd say the Maryland opening does too, but I'll leave that to others to decide.
Anyway, Urban was good for the Big Ten in that he changed the game for the conference and forced everyone else to (try to?) up the ante. The status quo was not going to work anymore with him around, and I'd say as a whole the league has definitely improved from top to (almost) bottom. He should get a lot of credit for that, be it from the level of coaching or the level of recruiting. He changed it all.
Now, moving forward... Day seems like the logical choice for OSU. At the time, OSU needed an Urban Meyer. It does not now. Day can come in, make his changes (not many) and keep OSU on the path its on. There is not much needed to change there.
So when does Smith call it a Day (pun not intended)?
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Some pretty good/funny remarks from Michigan Fans -
-Hmm, Ryan Day is the replacement. Ever notice how an Ohio State head coach's name has to have 10 letters or less?
-The devil called him and said he wants his soul back.
,-Dammit boys, he's getting away!
-The university finally recovered all of his deleted text messages ...
The players would never be able to spell it, if it was longer.
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Well, he's retiring from OSU. I would be very surprised if he's not back on the sidelines somewhere in the next few years.
The Packers need a coach, but I don't think he needs any more "headaches" right now. I'm thinking this really may be it for him, as in, he's done.
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Yeah, he really hasn't looked too good lately. I wish him well, hope he can recover some of his health. If coaching is in his future once again, more power to him, but for now at least he should definitely be thinking of his own future, and his family.
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He would be a great fit on the 40 acres in a couple years
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I'll bet Harbaugh is SO excited he peed himself
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He would be a great fit on the 40 acres in a couple years
He'd be an even better fit in BTN studios on Saturdays in the Fall.
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not
with that personality???
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Who's under consideration to fill Meyer's giant shoes? IMHO it would be lazy to just promote OC Ryan Day or DC Greg Schiano. What realistic candidates are out there that have successful records and can recruit nationally like Meyer? I got nothing.
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He would be a great fit on the 40 acres in a couple years
If he's not dead before then, that would surely kill him.
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I'll bet Harbaugh is SO excited he peed himself
Just Harbaugh?
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Who's under consideration to fill Meyer's giant shoes? IMHO it would be lazy to just promote OC Ryan Day or DC Greg Schiano. What realistic candidates are out there that have successful records and can recruit nationally like Meyer? I got nothing.
Since Day has already been crowned his successor, it would be kind of pointless to discuss other candidates. But this is a message board of course, so go nuts.
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Just Harbaugh?
others may be excited and Frenetz is getting pretty old, but yes, Harbaugh is probably the only one that pissed in his pants
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Okay, I will allow you to pass that off as excessive sweat.,.. this time.
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Just Harbaugh?
OSU is gonna be OSU. It is now SO far ahead of the pack, it will still be the program to emulate and try to beat in the conference, regardless of who is in charge.
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OSU struck gold with two outstanding coaching hires in a row.
There's no magic wand that makes them good no matter who is at the helm.
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OSU struck gold with two outstanding coaching hires in a row.
There's no magic wand that makes them good no matter who is at the helm.
Nobody has a better winning percentage since 1950. Only Oklahoma is even close.
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They aren't close because they have all had a few dud coaching hires along the way.
OSU has been pretty lucky in that regard since 1950. Jury is still out on Day, obviously.
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They aren't close because they have all had a few dud coaching hires along the way.
OSU has been pretty lucky in that regard since 1950. Jury is still out on Day, obviously.
Well, he's 3-0 so far. ;)
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Yeah. Against Tulane, Rutgers and Tcu...
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They aren't close because they have all had a few dud coaching hires along the way.
OSU has been pretty lucky in that regard since 1950. Jury is still out on Day, obviously.
I'm not sure it's all luck when you're talking ~70 years.
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we can hope for some bad luck
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we can hope for some bad luck
I thought you are a closet OSU fan?
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I'll bet Harbaugh is SO excited he peed himself
Harbaugh should be scared and embarrassed. Not excited.
Embarrassed that Urban used and abused him like a cheap whore and that he'll never have the opportunity to rectify that or beat Urban Meyer even once.
He should be scared because it was Chip Kelly disciple Ryan Day who modernized that OSU passing attack and took Haskins and that passing game to heights that OSU had never seen before and shredded Harbaugh to the tune of 62 points and 600 yards- most points and yards that Michigan has ever given up in the rivalry. Day's offenses are far more dangerous than what Urban liked to run in the past with guys who were more runners than throwers like Tebow, Braxton, JT. None of those guys ever carved up a Michigan defense the way Haskins just did to the then #1 ranked D in the land. Day ain't done dicing up Don Brown.
I doubt Day will be able to recruit as well as Meyer- no one has been able to recruit as well as good or better than Urban over the last 15+ years except for two guys: Carroll and Saban. But there's no doubt the guy is a heck of an offensive football coach. All he's got to do is fire Schiano and go hire a legit DC that's not stuck in 1999 and Ohio State will just keep humming along.
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It might not be all luck. But it was a lot of luck.
Three of those seven decades, it was the same guy.
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I’m He was a great coach, great recruiter , great motivator , I enjoyed all the wins, but the dude was an A hole.
I’d prefer he stay from a football perspective, not losing much from a human perspective
I’d also recommend jumping all over OSU in the rose bowl
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Harbaugh might be able to take over the title as best recruiter in the conference
look out James Franklin
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Harbaugh might be able to take over the title as best recruiter in the conference
look out James Franklin
Jim is going to have to start winning big games or his recruiting is going to fall by the way side.
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i really wish @CoachQ (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1661) would participate here...
he and i had an extended discussion at a Christmas party last year that was otherwise incredibly boring. he made a few comments about Meyer having a 'service life' less than Saban. It came off as he had an ax to grind with Meyer so i asked what he meant.
in short he said (paraphrased) "Meyer is a coach that focuses attention on the visible aspect- the players, game and game preparation, and let's others focus on administrating a program. Saban is a coach who uses every resource available to set his carefully selected staff to handle the same things Meyer handles himself".
this was interesting so i pressed into it. He gave an example- he said Saban, as an example, uses Alumni far flung from the program to monitor progress of potential players/recruits. these Alum will contact graduate assistants or program volunteers and relay happenings- such as a mention in the high school news of an academic or civic accomplishment, or something that happened in a game NOT highlight related such as a player stopping to talk to a cheerleader for a second- if Saban has even remote interest in the player he will take the information and hand write a message to the kid- one or two sentences, such as "congrats on the 4H award!" or "Hey man, leave those cheerleaders alone unless you're dating her!!! game face!!!" ... the impact is massive, and it ensures he gets a measure of loyalty from potential players. Meyer, in contrast and his style, looks to coaches/staff to handle these things and keeps the wheels of player development micromanaged as/after they are delivered- he only flirts with players he's interested in and more often second hand.
in one case- the saban type, a 'program manager' builds an empire and sits back at some point to watch it work. the other case, the Meyer type, it never lets up... it grinds all year and refreshes anew each of them. for that reason, he explained, the type meyer is fashioned, has a 'service life'. the type saban is can coast, only applying intensity when/where it's required.
i thought his thoughts were enlightening. he went down a string of coaches explaining hybrids of the well documented approaches. One thing he said about Fulmer, when he was a HC, was 'nobody anywhere was better than he was at navigating the existing system and getting more out of it' in terms of NCAA rules. I hope that remains true.
anyway... thought this was interesting to learn from a veteran and peer of the occupation. Some coaches, and I think Meyer is grouped within, look more haggard as a season progresses and the grind gets tighter... Riley @ OU is likely similar... Herman @ Texas possibly... then, some coaches such as Bobby Bowden was, Saban is, Spurrier certainly was, maybe Oregon, all as examples, become more approachable as season's progress as they're having fun just doing it- they're not invested as integral parts as much as they're overseeing... i really think it makes a difference.
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OSU has made great hires. Unlike Michigan or Nebraska that was fixated on their coach being a Nebraska guy or a Michigan Man, OSU hired and went after the best that fit their culture and the way they played football at OSU. That doesn't mean Meyers and Tressel ran the same offense, but they both like power concepts... both wanted to run the ball. They did not follow Tressel with a run and shoot. Michigan and Nebraska both were confused on these points.
btw.. Wisconsin has also done a great job under Barry in staying the course and understanding the program culture. OSU had been able to do that across different AD's.
JMO
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JMO, but tOSU was going to hire Urban Meyer regardless of what offense he ran. The similarities in skill sets between his system and what Tressel had morphed into certainly allowed him to hit the ground running though. It appears that they will be sticking with that general direction going forward as well, although the 2018 offense was definitely a departure from traditional Meyerball.
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Coaches evolve their system... well, good ones do. There is a difference between what Synder did at KSU and what UNL did with all their coaching changes.
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JMO, but tOSU was going to hire Urban Meyer regardless of what offense he ran. The similarities in skill sets between his system and what Tressel had morphed into certainly allowed him to hit the ground running though. It appears that they will be sticking with that general direction going forward as well, although the 2018 offense was definitely a departure from traditional Meyerball.
Meyer has never had a QB like Haskins or a WR corps as deep. Not saying the receivers they have are the most talented. There's no Michael Thomas' or Percy Harvin's on that unit. It's just the deepest he's had 1-5 maybe ever. Day re-tooled that offense and went pass heavy and it's paid off. When you have a QB like Haskins and receivers as deep as OSU's- you use them.
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I'm afraid that Day has too much Oregon in him.
I don't want OSU to turn into Oregon.
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I'm afraid that Day has too much Oregon in him.
I don't want OSU to turn into Oregon.
Oregon's never had a QB like that or receivers as talented. Mariotta has a wet noodle for an arm compared to Haskins.
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Barstool is the lowest common denominator among sports fans, but this did make me chuckle
https://twitter.com/PFTCommenter/status/1069949151952203776
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Watching the press conference. It is kind of surreal - I really got into college football when I was in law school and Tress was coach. I've lived in Columbus ever since and it's something how ingratiated the coach gets into everything. Tress was everywhere, and then we had a blip with Fickell and then Urbs was everywhere. So now Ryan Day is the head coach. He's a couple months younger than me, too.
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Meyer has never had a QB like Haskins or a WR corps as deep. Not saying the receivers they have are the most talented. There's no Michael Thomas' or Percy Harvin's on that unit. It's just the deepest he's had 1-5 maybe ever. Day re-tooled that offense and went pass heavy and it's paid off. When you have a QB like Haskins and receivers as deep as OSU's- you use them.
No question about it...struggling to run the football when you have that WR corps, and a QB who isn't especially nimble, would be foolish. That said, my comments on continuity are accurate regardless; they handed the keys to the guy who did the retooling.
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All he's got to do is fire Schiano and go hire a legit DC that's not stuck in 1999 and Ohio State will just keep humming along.
Alex Grinch IMO will do a good job,every year @ WSU with Leach his defenses improved noticeably for 3 seasons.Schiano has been making some questionable personal moves I wish him luck but hopes he moves on
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Also, remember to throw a few cookies to the tOSU OL; their pass pro down the stretch was excellent, and allows everything else to happen.
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Meyer has never had a QB like Haskins or a WR corps as deep.
2014-15 WR Corp was sick.Devin Smith/Michael Thomas were fantastic.Noah Brown/Jalin Marshall very good.Evan Spencer,Corey Smith,Johnny Dixon(injured) were good in rotation.Shame Devin Smith ripped up his knee twice in the league.Parris Campbell didn't consistently hang on to the rock until this season.Chris Olave has been a pleasant surprise but Trevon Grimes a 5* recruit moved back to Fla.Austin Mack is good but has been injured,Benjamin Victor has been shaky.Terry McClaurin and KJ Hill have been pretty good possession receivers.So the wide outs 3-4 yrs back were better across the board
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2014-15 WR Corp was sick.Devin Smith/Michael Thomas were fantastic.Noah Brown/Jalin Marshall very good.Evan Spencer,Corey Smith,Johnny Dixon(injured) were good in rotation.Shame Devin Smith ripped up his knee twice in the league.Parris Campbell didn't consistently hang on to the rock until this season.Chris Olave has been a pleasant surprise but Trevon Grimes a 5* recruit moved back to Fla.Austin Mack is good but has been injured,Benjamin Victor has been shaky.Terry McClaurin and KJ Hill have been pretty good possession receivers.So the wide outs 3-4 yrs back were better across the board
And the difference this year is that the QB can actually get the ball to them without having the receiver stop his route and have to come back to get it.
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Just wanted to give him props as one of the best all-time. I hope his health improves and he can enjoy retirement.
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I think the most unfortunate thing is that Urban's remarkable achievements have been so overshadowed by what Saban has been doing down in Tuscaloosa. In Meyer's seven years the Buckeyes have:
- 85-9 record, second to Bama's 90-8
- Seven B1G Divisional titles (Every. Single. Year.)
- Three B1G titles (out of six possible because they were ineligible in Meyer's first year)
- One NC
- Two CFP appearances
- Annual records of 12-0, 12-2, 14-1, 12-1, 11-2, 12-2, and either 13-1 or 12-2. Think about that, his worst year was 11-2.
- B1G Conference Records under Urban have been 8-0, 8-0, 8-0, 7-1, 8-1, 8-1, and 8-1. No other team even comes remotely close to that.
- Final AP rankings of #3, #12, #1, #4, #6, #5, and they are currently #5 so the worst case scenario this year is ~ #8. Think about that, in the last seven years Ohio State has finished outside the top-10 exactly once.
- Ohio State has been ranked in all 113 AP Polls since Urban was hired. Only Bama matches that with Clemson and OU (109) close behind.
- Ohio State has been ranked in the top-10 of 94 of the 113 AP Polls since Urban was hired. Only Bama (111) exceeds that and nobody else is even close (Clemson is 3rd with 76).
- Ohio State has been ranked in the top-5 in 61 of the 113 AP Polls sine Urban was hired. Only Bama (103) exceeds that and only Clemson (60) is even close (Oregon is fourth with 41).
- Ohio State has been ranked #1 in 11 AP Polls since Urban was hired. Only Bama (72) and FSU (12) exceed that.
This has been an absolutely remarkable period for Ohio State Football and I hope we don't let Alabama's accomplishments take anything away from that. Really, if you take away the odd Fickell year the run that Ohio State has been on since Tressel's second year is flat out amazing:
Final AP Poll ranking:
- #1 2002
- #4 2003
- #20 2004
- #4 2005
- #2 2006
- #5 2007
- #9 2008
- #5 2009
- #5 2010
- nr 2011
- #3 2012
- #12 2013
- #1 2014
- #4 2015
- #6 2016
- #5 2017
So in the last 16 years Ohio State has finished unranked once, 20th once, 12th once and in the top-10 13 times.
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the Gators probably felt the same way
who's next?
Maybe Urban lands in the ACC or SEC in a couple seasons, so he can slide through with 8 conference teams and four cupcakes on the schedule
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Yep. We just witnessed the best era in school history, and a lot of Buckeye fans were too blinded by Bama envy to enjoy it.
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I have a feeling Urban will be back at Texas or USC.
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I have a feeling Urban will be back at Texas or USC.
Possibly. I don't think he's going to be a hired gun and he will take some time off. He will of course be bandied about for every head coaching job that ever comes up, kind of like Gruden was. But after he does the announcing and plays the golf, and I have a hard time seeing him staying retired. Notre Dame is the obvious place that we know he's fond of and he famously chose not to go to because he didn't think he could win there. But now that's he's won I doubt that's as big a motivator. Of course, Brian Kelly isn't old and is in the playoffs, so the job has to come open for him to consider it. I could also see him coming back to OSU if Ryan Day doesn't work a la Bill Snyder. I would be surprised if he just heads for a place like USC in a year, though.
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And the difference this year is that the QB can actually get the ball to them without having the receiver stop his route and have to come back to get it.
True dat,but they got rolling in '14 with 12 Gauge under center
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I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but I am.
If Meyer ever becomes a head coach, again, hopefully he'd take a lower-level job (eg. Cincinnati - his alma mater) where he would be highly successful, similar to how Fresno State got Tedford, where he also went to school, after he had his time at California, and he's done very well there, winning the MWC this year.
I'm sure Ohio State will still be very good, but I'm surprised they just promoted Day, when they could've hired some much more proven head coaches (Mark Stoops, Dino Babers, Luke Fickell, Matt Campbell would all presumably take the job if offered.... There was even a rumor about Bob Stoops this morning).
There are definitely many instances where promoting someone to the head coach job works out well, but I don't think it's a coincidence that over half of the coaches fired this year (and probably most years) were first time head coaches, whereas under half of this year's head coaches were in their first head coaching job. It's not a significant difference, but it's definitely somewhat riskier.
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I'm also surprised they didn't do the traditional broad search for biggest names. Then again, Tressel was a small name. I'd call that a gamble that worked but even in retrospect a surprising gamble, though. I feel similarly now.
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obviously OSU thinks Ryan Day is the GUY
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I'm also surprised they didn't do the traditional broad search for biggest names. Then again, Tressel was a small name. I'd call that a gamble that worked but even in retrospect a surprising gamble, though. I feel similarly now.
This may prove to be true. But what standard do you hold Day to?
It is just not realistic to expect the win % of the coach with the best win % of all active coaches, and only behind Rockne and Leahy.
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Wow
https://twitter.com/TomVH/status/1070037188224667651?s=19
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good time to be forced into retirement
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This may prove to be true. But what standard do you hold Day to?
It is just not realistic to expect the win % of the coach with the best win % of all active coaches, and only behind Rockne and Leahy.
Absolutely. But I think both of our points run parallel. There are many positive signs and he's hard to judge. He is an entirely new name who could be *great*. Also: Is a gamble. If we were asked if we'd believe this hire in 2016, we wouldn't have. And if told it'd happen without a search, we'd admit the time traveler who told us to a hospital.
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I'm imagining the meltdown that will take place if Luke Fickel somehow manages to pull of the upset when UC plays OSU next year.
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good time to be forced into retirement
They would give their left nut at OSU to keep him from it, and they said as much today.
Your not thinking clearly.
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9 Big Ten teams never beat Meyer in his 7 years.
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9 Big Ten teams never beat Meyer in his 7 years.
His offenses were light years ahead of anything in the Stone Age B1G.
He was as revolutionary as Tiller at Purdue. But he had all 5* and 4* recruits executing that offense not 3* and 2*’s nobody else wanted.
Urban is the best offensive head coach of his era. And it’s not close.
Saban is the only coach I’d put ahead of him.
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good time to be forced into retirement
Can you clarify?
I too think Urban was "forced to retire" but I think the person forcing him is prolly different than who you are saying.
Again I was told by someone who worked with Shelly, she never got over how piss poor Drake treated her and Urban in the BoR meeting, where he went lone wolf and suspended him for three more games. Right or wrong Shelly's opinion is they did everything they could do to help the Smith's and followed University/NCAA rules. Of course that's her opinion, but reports leaked out that it was everyone else opinion the room as well, except for Drake. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I would love for Urban to go back into the studio, and remain active here on campus, but rumors are circulating that Shelly wants them to go down to Cincinnati to watch their son play baseball, and move back into their Florida home. (ie. done with Columbus.)
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Can you clarify?
I too think Urban was "forced to retire" but I think the person forcing him is prolly different than who you are saying.
Again I was told by someone who worked with Shelly, she never got over how piss poor Drake treated her and Urban in the BoR meeting, where he went lone wolf and suspended him for three more games. Right or wrong Shelly's opinion is they did everything they could do to help the Smith's and followed University/NCAA rules. Of course that's her opinion, but reports leaked out that it was everyone else opinion the room as well, except for Drake. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I would love for Urban to go back into the studio, and remain active here on campus, but rumors are circulating that Shelly wants them to go down to Cincinnati to watch their son play baseball, and move back into their Florida home. (ie. done with Columbus.)
I wouldn’t even entertain that jibberish.( that Fearless posted)
He left on his terms, because he wanted too. Gene Smith was effusive in his praise, even saying OSU would be only too happy to have him not retire.
People want to change the narrative to their liking, twisting facts with their tin foil hats.
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I'm sure Ohio State will still be very good, but I'm surprised they just promoted Day, when they could've hired some much more proven head coaches (Mark Stoops, Dino Babers, Luke Fickell, Matt Campbell would all presumably take the job if offered.... There was even a rumor about Bob Stoops this morning).
I thought Matt Campbell would be the wise and likely target.But Day is an up and comer and would have gotten offers.The program for the most part isn't broken just HC leaving.Bringing in another coach may involve a personnel over all.That probably would have been a bane to recruiting.So I understand this route - a seamless transfer.Thought for sure Urbz would step down next season and the AD would go after Campbell.I'll bet Matt Campbell today is maybe a little taken back as his named surfaced alot - but he'll find a top 10-15 gig in the near future
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Promoting Day is mimicking what OU did 2 years ago, and it's worked out pretty well for them.
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Also mimicking Florida with Muschamp, which didn't work out very well for them.
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Promoting Day is mimicking what OU did 2 years ago, and it's worked out pretty well for them.
Promoting from within is nothing new Bowden/Fisher at FSU.Sometimes it is the way to go specially in CFB where there is recruiting to consider
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Promoting from within is nothing new Bowden/Fisher at FSU.Sometimes it is the way to go specially in CFB where there is recruiting to consider
Bielema too.
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I'd say Urban is a better offensive mind than Saban. Saban's results say he's a better HC, but I'd support the argument that Urban was the better offensive mind.
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I'd say Urban is a better offensive mind than Saban. Saban's results say he's a better HC, but I'd support the argument that Urban was the better offensive mind.
Agree. Saban has his process, and it's outstanding. Everything is delegated and managed properly.
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I know nothing, but trying to take a bit of a different perspective on Urban Retiring.
In my Life time, I've know nothing but OSU firing their head football coach. Urban survived a huge scandal, I doubt he would have survived another one.
I think head coaches can try to instill a cultural of doing things the right way (and I think Urban was doing this,) but there is no way you can keep 150+ people always in check. One more slip up and I think he would have been fired. His retirement may just be him making sure he is leaving on his terms.
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Urban is the best offensive head coach of his era. And it’s not close.
Saban is the only coach I’d put ahead of him.
Well, Urban is 2-1 against Purdue, while Saban is only 1-3-1 and in a 3-game losing streak vs the Boilers.
Ergo, Urban is clearly better.
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I know nothing, but trying to take a bit of a different perspective on Urban Retiring.
In my Life time, I've know nothing but OSU firing their head football coach. Urban survived a huge scandal, I doubt he would have survived another one.
I think head coaches can try to instill a cultural of doing things the right way (and I think Urban was doing this,) but there is no way you can keep 150+ people always in check. One more slip up and I think he would have been fired. His retirement may just be him making sure he is leaving on his terms.
I get it. Nothing wrong with wondering- even out loud
I just get frustrated when the facts are brushed aside. The cyst induced headaches are factually proven and known to be aggravated by tension and stress. And they are also known to be incredibly painful when they flare up. Now it might be things outside the field that added to the tension and stress, and urban admitted as much yesterday, but he flatly explain that that is the primary reason for him to call it a day right now. That combined with leaving the program in such great shape, with good recruiting, a young team that’s already one a big 10 championship and a coach who they are excited about to move the program forward That is the epitome of leaving on your own terms
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I wonder who was the last to leave on his own terms.
They say it was Paul Brown, but I don't really consider fighting in WWII to be leaving on your own terms.
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I thought Matt Campbell would be the wise and likely target.But Day is an up and comer and would have gotten offers.The program for the most part isn't broken just HC leaving.Bringing in another coach may involve a personnel over all.That probably would have been a bane to recruiting.So I understand this route - a seamless transfer.Thought for sure Urbz would step down next season and the AD would go after Campbell.I'll bet Matt Campbell today is maybe a little taken back as his named surfaced alot - but he'll find a top 10-15 gig in the near future
Some coaches should and have learned from Gary Barnett's, Brett Bielema's experiences, contrasted with Bill Snyder's and Pat Fitzgerald's experiences. If you stay where you have had success at the P-5 level, that may be the best thing for your career, and may even maximize lifetime income. There is no guarantee Matt Campbell will be successful at another job. He has the Iowa State job figured out. Even if he were successful there are schools like Ohio State that fired Earl Bruce, and John Cooper, who each had success.
If you make over a million a year, the utility of the next million is not near the utility you get out of the first million. A failed stint would put you right back into an assistant's job, or out-of-work.
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I'd say Urban is a better offensive mind than Saban. Saban's results say he's a better HC, but I'd support the argument that Urban was the better offensive mind.
Yeah which is what I said lol.
I think Urban is the best offensive mind of his era and the 2nd best overall head coach. Saban probably doesn’t belong in the same sentence as Meyer when it comes to offensive football- but he’s a defensive master and no one recruits or hires assistants better. Saban is clearly the top dog of his era and maybe every era.
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I wonder who was the last to leave on his own terms.
They say it was Paul Brown, but I don't really consider fighting in WWII to be leaving on your own terms.
It wasn't, I'm pretty sure he was drafted.
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Urban absolutely left on his own terms. No way OSU forced him out imo. Doesn’t make sense. Especially after he got them to 12-1 and owned Michigan- yet again.
IF they were going to force him out they would’ve fired him after the ZS investigation and not suspended him for a measly 3 games.
Urban has serious health issues. My guess is he takes 2-3 years off to re-coup and then you’ll see him coaching for a helmet that has an opening and that’ll be his last job.
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If you make over a million a year, the utility of the next million is not near the utility you get out of the first million. A failed stint would put you right back into an assistant's job, or out-of-work.
In general I agree with your point but at some of these jobs the numbers get so big that the possibility of being back to being an assistant and/or out of work at the end of one contract really doesn't matter.
If I'm making say $1 Million a year at a school that really can't pay me any more and I get a five year contract offer at $5 Million/year with the buyout being the full contract, that is $25 Million in (almost) guaranteed money. It would take me 25 years to make that if I stayed where I was. Even if I experience a failed stint and get fired in three years, I still collect the $25 Million contract and I never have to work again.
Seriously, I'd probably pay ~50% in taxes so that knocks it down to $12.5 Million. The current rate on 30 year US Treasuries (ie, taking basically zero risk) is 3.30%. If I invested half of my after-tax $12.5 Million in US Treasury Bonds I'd collect $206,250 per year without ever dipping into the principal. That still leaves me $6,250,000 after tax to live on while coaching (well over $1 Million/year). On top of that, the upside is even better. If I get just one contract extension (5 more years, another $25 Million) that doubles it and I now have over $400k/year at basically no risk.
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Some coaches should and have learned from Gary Barnett's, Brett Bielema's experiences, contrasted with Bill Snyder's and Pat Fitzgerald's experiences. If you stay where you have had success at the P-5 level, that may be the best thing for your career, and may even maximize lifetime income. There is no guarantee Matt Campbell will be successful at another job. He has the Iowa State job figured out. Even if he were successful there are schools like Ohio State that fired Earl Bruce, and John Cooper, who each had success.
If you make over a million a year, the utility of the next million is not near the utility you get out of the first million. A failed stint would put you right back into an assistant's job, or out-of-work.
Point taken but Campbell is an Ohio guy and seems to have an upward trajectory.He would have been worth the risk according to a lot of people.And if you swing and miss(at a CFB blue blood) someone else will always be willing to take a chance on you.Now if I was at K-State or Ia St. I'd be perfectly happy on putting down roots and staying there - depends on the individual I guess
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Urban has serious health issues. My guess is he takes 2-3 years off to re-coup and then you’ll see him coaching for a helmet that has an opening and that’ll be his last job.
This makes sense he'll feel better away from the grind - then give it a final shot
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In general I agree with your point but at some of these jobs the numbers get so big that the possibility of being back to being an assistant and/or out of work at the end of one contract really doesn't matter.
If I'm making say $1 Million a year at a school that really can't pay me any more and I get a five year contract offer at $5 Million/year with the buyout being the full contract, that is $25 Million in (almost) guaranteed money. It would take me 25 years to make that if I stayed where I was. Even if I experience a failed stint and get fired in three years, I still collect the $25 Million contract and I never have to work again.
Seriously, I'd probably pay ~50% in taxes so that knocks it down to $12.5 Million. The current rate on 30 year US Treasuries (ie, taking basically zero risk) is 3.30%. If I invested half of my after-tax $12.5 Million in US Treasury Bonds I'd collect $206,250 per year without ever dipping into the principal. That still leaves me $6,250,000 after tax to live on while coaching (well over $1 Million/year). On top of that, the upside is even better. If I get just one contract extension (5 more years, another $25 Million) that doubles it and I now have over $400k/year at basically no risk.
Understood. Matt Campbell is at $3.5M guarantee at Iowa State, and for 2018 there is a $7M buyout. Ohio State made an economical decision, and maybe Day is the best man for the job. We'll know soon enough.
Urban Meyer was great for football in the Big Ten. He forced the entire Big Ten to improve.
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Some coaches should and have learned from Gary Barnett's, Brett Bielema's experiences, contrasted with Bill Snyder's and Pat Fitzgerald's experiences. If you stay where you have had success at the P-5 level, that may be the best thing for your career, and may even maximize lifetime income. There is no guarantee Matt Campbell will be successful at another job. He has the Iowa State job figured out. Even if he were successful there are schools like Ohio State that fired Earl Bruce, and John Cooper, who each had success.
If you make over a million a year, the utility of the next million is not near the utility you get out of the first million. A failed stint would put you right back into an assistant's job, or out-of-work.
This interests me becuase everyone mentioned is kinda different, and the Barnett-Campbell thing is fascinating.
You could say, Campbell figured out ISU. Or perhaps he’s got them at their best, and there are tougher times ahead. Barnett won two big ten titles, then slipped to 5-7 and 3-9.
Then he left, ended up kind fine at Colorado. He was let go for some kinds of rule breaking, and the fact the program slipped, but that’ll happen with the dudes he replaced. Then the guys after him went 25-61.
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the difference between most of these coaches and those at the very top is competitive drive. it's the same mechanism that brings a five star to a program with a five star in his slot- to prove he's better. Campbell may be successful at ISU because he's 'figured it out', or, it may be he's 'comfortable'... truly competitive people- not those with a competitive streak but those as their key identity- won't 'settle'. instead they want to see what can stop them and if they can overcome it. every single coach at the very top is a competitor as defining characteristic.
it isn't by accident or by some strange condition making them a savant of schemes, it's that they found themselves in the field through whatever happenstance and then rose by challenging themselves. if these guys were attorneys, they're the attorneys at the top of their discipline... if they were farmers, they would have the most production possible. it's personality proven by results not boasts.
Does Ryan Day have that kind of drive? Is it enough, all by itself, to keep him from believing he needs to hedge by flirting with rules? this is kind of the questions i'd be concerned with if i were a tOSU fan. he's about to get a shot at it, and perhaps not a shot 'earned' by coaches like Meyer who rose through the ranks proving every step along the way.
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And the difference this year is that the QB can actually get the ball to them without having the receiver stop his route and have to come back to get it.
There is one more difference in the receiving core this year too. They don't have Bluto coaching them anymore. "Fat, Drunk, and Stupid is no way to go through life son."
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There is one more difference in the receiving core this year too. They don't have Bluto coaching them anymore. "Fat, Drunk, and Stupid is no way to go through life son."
yup. Brian Hartline has been a massive improvement over the drunk wife beater.
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just do an all-time Urban at OSU team...wow.
QB- Dwayne Haskins (1st round lock)
RB- Zeke Elliot (1st round)
RB- Carlos Hyde (2nd round)
WR- Michael Thomas (2nd round)
WR- Devin Smith (2nd round)
WR- Paris Campbell (probably 2nd or 3rd)
TE- Jeff Heurman (3rd round)
OT- Taylor Decker (1st round)
OG- Andrew Norwell (undrafted-how??? NFL All-Pro team last year)
C- Pat Elflein (3rd round)
OG- Billy Price (1st round)
OT- Jamarco Jones (5th round)
DE- Joey Bosa (1st round)
DE- Nick Bosa (1st round lock)
DT- Dre'Mont Jones (probably 1st or 2nd rd)
DT-Jonathan Hankins (2nd round)
LB- Darron Lee (1st round)
LB- Raekwon McMillan (2nd round)
LB- Ryan Shazier (1st round)
CB- Gareon Conley (1st round)
CB- Marshon Lattimore (1st round)
NB- Denzel Ward (1st round)
S- Vonn Bell (2nd round)
S- Malik Hooker (1st round)
No wonder why the guy won a shit load of games.
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just do an all-time Urban at OSU team...wow.
QB- Dwayne Haskins (1st round lock)
RB- Zeke Elliot (1st round)
RB- Carlos Hyde (2nd round)
WR- Michael Thomas (2nd round)
WR- Devin Smith (2nd round)
WR- Paris Campbell (probably 2nd or 3rd)
TE- Jeff Heurman (3rd round)
OT- Taylor Decker (1st round)
OG- Andrew Norwell (undrafted-how??? NFL All-Pro team last year)
C- Pat Elflein (3rd round)
OG- Billy Price (1st round)
OT- Jamarco Jones (5th round)
DE- Joey Bosa (1st round)
DE- Nick Bosa (1st round lock)
DT- Dre'Mont Jones (probably 1st or 2nd rd)
DT-Jonathan Hankins (2nd round)
LB- Darron Lee (1st round)
LB- Raekwon McMillan (2nd round)
LB- Ryan Shazier (1st round)
CB- Gareon Conley (1st round)
CB- Marshon Lattimore (1st round)
NB- Denzel Ward (1st round)
S- Vonn Bell (2nd round)
S- Malik Hooker (1st round)
No wonder why the guy won a shit load of games.
Nice list, but not all those guys were Urban's recruits. Shazier, Hyde, Heurman were part of Tressels group I believe, none the less, still a great list of Buckeye's!
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Tyquan Lewis,Sam Hubbard,Jalyn Smith went 2,3,4 rds last april
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I thought Matt Campbell would be the wise and likely target.But Day is an up and comer and would have gotten offers.The program for the most part isn't broken just HC leaving.Bringing in another coach may involve a personnel over all.That probably would have been a bane to recruiting.So I understand this route - a seamless transfer.Thought for sure Urbz would step down next season and the AD would go after Campbell.I'll bet Matt Campbell today is maybe a little taken back as his named surfaced alot - but he'll find a top 10-15 gig in the near future
I agree, I also thought an open search would have occurred, but then again the politics of the game have a huge factor to play as well. Matt Campbell would have been one name I would not have been surprised with at all, and I think he would be a good choice. Ohio guy, knows the game, has HEAD COACHING experience, a good recruiter from what I have been told, and a would have have jumped at the chance.
The coaching overall with Day will happen anyway. I will be surprised if Schiano stays. Wilson will stay, be surprised if he leaves, he has a good gig for now and don't think the IU mess has blown over for him just yet. Grinch will be a question mark, he wants a H/C spot as well, but like Wilson has a good gig, but sitting with Co title may not do well in keeping. Hartline will be a solid stay for awhile. Studrawa will depart. The biggest loss could be Larry Johnson. With the DL success tOSU has had lately, lossing him would be a huge blow to Day and could be a ship sinker for him in the future. LB coach needs to go, I know they were a young unit, but I don't think Davis was able to make the transition from the NFL mindset to the college concept. The unit just did not seem to be as fundamental and solid as previous years. I hope Day can find a college type mind set to come in and coach that unit.
As to Urban, I was not surprised at all! I don't like the timing, and IF thye would have been a CFP team, I wonder if he would have still made the announcement at this time. My feeling is that if they would have lost to Michigan a few weeks ago, he would have announced his retirement that weekend. I am sure his health is an issue, as everyone in the world has talked about, however, I don't think its the end of his coaching career. I expect to see him on the sidelines in 2020. I don't think his ego can handle an administrative type job like Tressel. (not Univeristy President, but AD type). My guess is still Notre Dame. I would also see somewhere South-LSU, Miami, maybe even FSU. An easy recruiting area, a football rich program, with an easy build/rebuild. Don't see him in the NFL, not his style. Regardless the all coach speak (and he may love Columbus, my Uncle did even after Cooper and Robert Smith screwed him) I just do not see him staying in the mid west area. Thanks for the years, the Wins and the run Coach Meyer, but you are done, and so am I, on to the next coaching era, and here is hoping we do not have a Rich Rod/Hoke run.
Go Bucks!
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There is one more difference in the receiving core this year too. They don't have Bluto coaching them anymore. "Fat, Drunk, and Stupid is no way to go through life son."
Agreed. There were a couple of things involved, but if the QB cannot get the ball to a receiver no matter how open he is, the receiver's coach is not to blame.
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The coaching overall with Day will happen anyway. I will be surprised if Schiano stays. Wilson will stay, be surprised if he leaves, he has a good gig for now and don't think the IU mess has blown over for him just yet. Grinch will be a question mark, he wants a H/C spot as well, but like Wilson has a good gig, but sitting with Co title may not do well in keeping. Hartline will be a solid stay for awhile. Studrawa will depart. The biggest loss could be Larry Johnson. With the DL success tOSU has had lately, lossing him would be a huge blow to Day and could be a ship sinker for him in the future. LB coach needs to go, I know they were a young unit, but I don't think Davis was able to make the transition from the NFL mindset to the college concept.
Ideally LJ and Grinch stay(as I think he has a good upside)Davis and Schiano hopefully find work elsewhere.Don't know who was responsible for Borland/Werner seeing so many snaps at LB but is one of those two and Schiano should have over ruled it.Grinch was prolly gritting his teeth
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Regardless the all coach speak (and he may love Columbus, my Uncle did even after Cooper and Robert Smith screwed him) I just do not see him staying in the mid west area. Must have missed it but who is your uncle RD?
and here is hoping we do not have a Rich Rod/Hoke run. Go Bucks! Don't even entertain those negative waves
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Ideally LJ and Grinch stay(as I think he has a good upside)Davis and Schiano hopefully find work elsewhere.Don't know who was responsible for Borland/Werner seeing so many snaps at LB but is one of those two and Schiano should have over ruled it.Grinch was prolly gritting his teeth
sounds like Grinch is getting looks from Oklahoma to be the sole DC. Can't be fun having to share with a moron like Schiano. Rumors also floating around that LJ Sr might be the next DC at Maryland.
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sounds like Grinch is getting looks from Oklahoma to be the sole DC. Can't be fun having to share with a moron like Schiano. Rumors also floating around that LJ Sr might be the next DC at Maryland.
Nope, Maryland snatched another Sabanite.. He has said in interviews before he does not want a HC position, not sure why, maybe just content developing what he does best. Like the military, not all great NCO's can be good officers, they are good NCO's for a GOD given reason.
As to Grinch, I don't blame him not want that Co title in front. The issue with him, for Day, would be, do you go with him knowing that in a few years you will be replacing because he leaves for a HC spot, or stick with a guy that has experience, and probably won't be going anywhere unless you make the cut?
Here's a thought as well........Could Day bring a guy like DJ Durkin in as LB coach and shield him on the staf for a few years until things cool with him? Durkin is a young guy, and I am sure would love to get another shot.
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Nope, Maryland snatched another Sabanite.. He has said in interviews before he does not want a HC position, not sure why, maybe just content developing what he does best. Like the military, not all great NCO's can be good officers, they are good NCO's for a GOD given reason.
As to Grinch, I don't blame him not want that Co title in front. The issue with him, for Day, would be, do you go with him knowing that in a few years you will be replacing because he leaves for a HC spot, or stick with a guy that has experience, and probably won't be going anywhere unless you make the cut?
Here's a thought as well........Could Day bring a guy like DJ Durkin in as LB coach and shield him on the staf for a few years until things cool with him? Durkin is a young guy, and I am sure would love to get another shot.
Locksley is trying to get LJ Sr to be his DC at Maryland. That's what the rumors are. They are tight.
Not sure DJ Durkin is employable. He falls into the Zach Smith category imo.
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Locksley is trying to get LJ Sr to be his DC at Maryland. That's what the rumors are. They are tight.
Not sure DJ Durkin is employable. He falls into the Zach Smith category imo.
Kevin Wilson category in my opinion more so than the Zach Smith column. I think if he was a few years younger, that jump to Maryland may just happen.
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Kevin Wilson category in my opinion more so than the Zach Smith column. I think if he was a few years younger, that jump to Maryland may just happen.
I was about to say the same thing. Or the Brian Kelly column, except ... how did he survive that scandal again?
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I was about to say the same thing. Or the Brian Kelly column, except ... how did he survive that scandal again?
Exactly!
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Here's a thought as well........Could Day bring a guy like DJ Durkin in as LB coach and shield him on the staf for a few years until things cool with him? Durkin is a young guy, and I am sure would love to get another shot.
I don't think so and DJD may/may not have been unfairly tarred and feathered.The crap happened under his watch so he has to take at least partial blame/responsibility.Not only that but fair or not Wilson has some baggage and Schiano was unfortunately lumped in with the scandal.I really hope he goes - I'd like to see what A.G.can do
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I was about to say the same thing. Or the Brian Kelly column, except ... how did he survive that scandal again?
Ironically Jim Tressel sent out an APB & E-mail to all the AD's in conference about the extremely high winds and wouldn't let personnel up high in affected areas.Shame ND wasn't in the conference
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Kevin Wilson category in my opinion more so than the Zach Smith column. I think if he was a few years younger, that jump to Maryland may just happen.
Nobody died on Wilson's watch. They are not similar.
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Nobody died on Wilson's watch. They are not similar.
Nobody died with Zach Smith.......unless you are counting Urban's retirement! :57:
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I don't think so and DJD may/may not have been unfairly tarred and feathered.The crap happened under his watch so he has to take at least partial blame/responsibility.Not only that but fair or not Wilson has some baggage and Schiano was unfortunately lumped in with the scandal.I really hope he goes - I'd like to see what A.G.can do
Exactly and Urban didn't waste much time bringing Wilson on board, and didn't much care about the backlash. Granted Day does not have the Urban Clout, but he is a new coach, who may get a little slack, by picking a coach off the Urban Meyer Tree.
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Also mimicking Florida with Muschamp, which didn't work out very well for them.
Ehhh...Muschamp wasn't at Florida prior to being hired by the Gators at HC.
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Nobody died with Zach Smith.......unless you are counting Urban's retirement!
Were you comparing the Durkin incident with Wilson? If not, never mind.
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Ehhh...Muschamp wasn't at Florida prior to being hired by the Gators at HC.
Correct. He was the "chosen one" to replace Mack Brown at Texas, before Texas told him he wasn't anymore.
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Ironically Jim Tressel sent out an APB & E-mail to all the AD's in conference about the extremely high winds and wouldn't let personnel up high in affected areas.Shame ND wasn't in the conference
Michigan now has large permanent fortress-type towers (4-6) scattered all around the practice field. (Somehow they're even architecturally pleasing, but I digress). I would bet the ND happening inspired their installation.
Shame how often progress follows, rather than prevent, the first tragedy.