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The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2022, 02:13:25 PM

Title: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2022, 02:13:25 PM
Napoleon wasn't French, Hitler wasn't German, and Stalin wasn't Russian.

There were bolsheviks and mensheviks in Russia in 1917, the former won, it basically means majority.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2022, 02:18:40 PM
The US went to war with Spain in 1898 (for dubious reasons related in part to an explosion of the Maine), one of five declared wars the US has had.  The US won, and took over many Spanish possessions, including the Phillippines (which arguably got us into war in 1941).  There was incentive to keep Cuba, but ostensibly part of the reason for war was to free Cuba.  The PI had coconut trees which was needed by Lever Bros. to make soap (so one story goes).

Some 40 odd years later, we cut Japan's principal oil supply.  Japan was in dire straits and looked to southeast Asia for oil, but the supply lines ran by the PI, so they figured they needed to take the PI which in turn meant neutering the US Pacific Fleet which had been forward positioned at Pearl Harbor.  So, to secure their oil from Borneo and Indonesia, they finally decided to attack said US Pacific Fleet, and did, missing our three carriers in the Pacific.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2022, 02:20:44 PM
The Hiroshima A bomb was never tested.  The Nagasaki bomb was more "advanced" and used plutonium instead of uranium in an implosion mechanism and was the type tested in 1945 before being used.  Nuclear weapons today usually are based on plutonium, not uranium (though they can contain some of the latter).  The A bomb now serves as a trigger for the more powerful fusion weapon.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 26, 2022, 02:55:37 PM
The Hiroshima A bomb was never tested.  The Nagasaki bomb was more "advanced" and used plutonium instead of uranium in an implosion mechanism and was the type tested in 1945 before being used.  Nuclear weapons today usually are based on plutonium, not uranium (though they can contain some of the latter).  The A bomb now serves as a trigger for the more powerful fusion weapon.
The Trinity Site in New Mexico (where they conducted the world's first atomic explosion to test the Nagasaki bomb) is only open two days a year.  In 2022 those dates are:
I visited about ten years ago and it is really fascinating if you like history.  IMHO, the explosion conducted there at 5:29 a.m. on July 16, 1945 was possibly the most impactful event in human history.  Wars were converted essentially by that event from terrible struggles in which one side would eventually win and the other would eventually lose into potentially catastrophic apocalypses in which we literally possess the power to wipe out humanity.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2022, 06:34:44 PM
"Northmen" who we sometimes call Vikings today somewhat incorrectly, started spreading out circa 850 AD and one group headed by a fellow named Rollo settled in the area of France we now call "Normandy", oddly enough.  Northmen/Danes had raided Paris several times, and Rollo had control of the Seine River, and in return for keeping the hords out of Paris, the French King gave him the land and a dukedom.  His grandson, born in Falaise with the French name Guillaume, had a claim to the English crown, which he thought was taken from him, so he assembled an army and ships and crossed the "French Channel" and defeated Harold of England at the Battle of Hastings in 1066 and became King of England and Duke of France, a situation which lead to hundreds of years of war.  It also greatly impacted our language.

Previously, the Britons were pushed out of England by invading Saxons and Angles into a peninsula called Wales today, and some of them fled by ship to another area of France we now call Brittany, where the local Breton language has some overlap with modern English, and their flag looks a bit like ours.

(https://i.imgur.com/8nHrcJZ.png)

So, we are German, Danish, French, Norwegian, Irish, Roman, and whatever else as is the English language.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 26, 2022, 06:38:16 PM
I always found it odd that a coworker, who was born in Cuba, and whose birth name was Guillermo, went by "Bill". I had no clue how you got from one to the other.  

I had never known that Guillermo is the Spanish version of Guillaume, which is the French version of William. Hence Guillermo was called Bill. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2022, 06:42:22 PM
Guillaume pronounced sounds vaguely akin to William.



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 26, 2022, 07:04:01 PM
So, we are German, Danish, French, Norwegian, Irish, Roman, and whatever else as is the English language.
Not sure about the Anglos or the Saxons but wasn't English derived from a German Tribe - Engles.I think they came to the States and built a cabin in Minnesota - on the prarie by Lake Wobegone - you're welcome
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 26, 2022, 07:13:16 PM
Cool vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLCF7vPanrY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLCF7vPanrY)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on January 26, 2022, 09:32:19 PM
(https://i.imgflip.com/62u4zj.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 26, 2022, 09:46:03 PM
I always found it odd that a coworker, who was born in Cuba, and whose birth name was Guillermo, went by "Bill". I had no clue how you got from one to the other. 

I had never known that Guillermo is the Spanish version of Guillaume, which is the French version of William. Hence Guillermo was called Bill.
The father of one of my best friends, is named Guillermo, and we all call him Willy.

He's awesome, he's a former prison corrections officer that now owns a ton of property down in the Rio Grande Valley.  He's loaded and he doesn't trust banks, so he keeps a lot of his money under mattresses at some of his various homes.  He's got hundreds of thousands stashed under there.  One of the houses burned and he said he probably lost $100,000.  I believe him, I've seen some of those mattresses.  A few years back he gave each of his three kids $100,000 in cash.  Just because.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 27, 2022, 06:09:55 AM
There's an interesting reason that many Cuban's names being with the letter Y.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 07:39:44 AM
When Germany attacked France in 1940, they had fewer tanks than the French and their tanks were markedly inferior in size and weight versus most French tanks.  They had fewer men, artillery, planes, etc., and the French had the BEF present as an additional force, plus the Maginot Line (which "worked" tactically, if not strategically).

If you "game play" this battle, it's impossible to lose that fast as the French did with even moderate sense.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 27, 2022, 08:26:37 AM
When Germany attacked France in 1940, they had fewer tanks than the French and their tanks were markedly inferior in size and weight versus most French tanks.  They had fewer men, artillery, planes, etc., and the French had the BEF present as an additional force, plus the Maginot Line (which "worked" tactically, if not strategically).

If you "game play" this battle, it's impossible to lose that fast as the French did with even moderate sense.
There were two main differences:

First, German tanks were massed into powerful spearheads that were able to smash through the French/British lines thus creating havoc in undefended rear areas and surround large troop formations. In contrast the more numerous French tanks were spread out along the whole line as infantry support weapons. The German method is how pretty much everybody utilizes tanks today but in 1940 the French didn't know that.

Second, the Luftwaffe's planes and pilots were newer, better, and far better integrated with the ground forces than their allied counterparts.

German unit coordination in 1940 was not nearly as advanced as Soviet let alone American coordination would be by 1945 but it was vastly better than the French and British of 1940.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 08:30:58 AM
The German tanks also had radios, most French tanks did not.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 27, 2022, 08:33:37 AM
The German tanks also had radios, most French tanks did not. 
Needed for unit coordination. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 08:49:57 AM
We visited the Maginot Line a few years back.  It's not a "line" of course.  My wife was chagrined when our guide said the bonds were not paid off  until 1975.  They had a special tax on income to pay for it.  The "line" (ligne) was intended to prevent a German incursion directly into France using a minimum of manpower.  Fortifications are obviously a manpower multiplier.  And the French lost the best part of a generation in WW One and the Germans were out populating them with younger men.

French tanks were devised to have one man in the turret doing three jobs in effect which was inefficient.  One of the best early war tanks was French, they call tanks a "char", much as the German term is Panzer.  This is the Somua S35, you can see how small the turret is.  It had a decent gun and good armor for 1940.  The Germans relied heavily on their Panzer II light tank, and the Czech made tanks they "stole" from that country.

(https://i.imgur.com/expXSiE.png)

The Maginot Line is worth visiting if you're near Strasbourg.  Parts had a rail line running in it, hospitals, dining halls, barracks.  The forts were interconnected, mostly, so troops could be transferred to a point of attack as needed.  It's a hilly area and the artillery emplacements were generally on top of hills.

The original German plan was a replay of WW One, but a German plan with said plans was lost over Belgium, and Manstein proposed another plan which Hitler adopted to slice through the Ardennes south of the main French armies.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 27, 2022, 10:36:54 AM
We visited the Maginot Line a few years back.  It's not a "line" of course.  My wife was chagrined when our guide said the bonds were not paid off  until 1975.  They had a special tax on income to pay for it.  The "line" (ligne) was intended to prevent a German incursion directly into France using a minimum of manpower.  Fortifications are obviously a manpower multiplier.  And the French lost the best part of a generation in WW One and the Germans were out populating them with younger men.

French tanks were devised to have one man in the turret doing three jobs in effect which was inefficient.  One of the best early war tanks was French, they call tanks a "char", much as the German term is Panzer.  This is the Somua S35, you can see how small the turret is.  It had a decent gun and good armor for 1940.  The Germans relied heavily on their Panzer II light tank, and the Czech made tanks they "stole" from that country.

(https://i.imgur.com/expXSiE.png)

The Maginot Line is worth visiting if you're near Strasbourg.  Parts had a rail line running in it, hospitals, dining halls, barracks.  The forts were interconnected, mostly, so troops could be transferred to a point of attack as needed.  It's a hilly area and the artillery emplacements were generally on top of hills.

The original German plan was a replay of WW One, but a German plan with said plans was lost over Belgium, and Manstein proposed another plan which Hitler adopted to slice through the Ardennes south of the main French armies.
I'd like to see that someday.  

The main WWII tourism trips that I want to do are:

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 11:08:56 AM
I've been to 2 and 3.  On my list is the tank museum at Bovington, I've been to the one in Saumur twice nice, it's fantastic.  There is another in Russia and one developing in Columbus, GA we'll visit "soon".

Our subs did choke the Japanese, in addition to sinking their largest carrier (which was not a very good carrier).  But ultimately our ground forces had to take ground, and did.  I'd like to visit Guadalcanal some day, but it's a tough one.  My Dad was based there for a while.

The Normandy beaches are worth visiting along with the Omaha Cemetery, and the Belleau Wood cemetery is also worth a visit near Chateau Thierry.

I've been to every major Civil War battlefield except Shiloh.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 27, 2022, 11:14:09 AM
I've been to Normandy and the Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor.  Very sobering.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 27, 2022, 11:29:10 AM
I've been to every major Civil War battlefield except Shiloh.
When i was a kid quite often id go to Johnson's Island Confederate Prison/Cemetary in the middle of Sandusky Bay on Lake Erie .The folks had a place on MarbleHead and I'd spend summers up there,when i wasn't back in CLE playing ball.There was a quarry on the Island we'd go swimming and fool around with the girls.Now it's all built up and surrounded with very luxurious homes.Won't let commoners like me around there,feel like an Erie Indian that got the boot - Bastages
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 27, 2022, 11:35:48 AM
Our subs did choke the Japanese, in addition to sinking their largest carrier (which was not a very good carrier).  But ultimately our ground forces had to take ground, and did.  
The story of that really explains how bad things were for Japan and how strong the US Submarines were.  Shinano was barely out of view of the Japanese coast and yet  the Japanese were unable to protect it from the US Submarines.  
I'd like to visit Guadalcanal some day, but it's a tough one.  My Dad was based there for a while.
Wow, that is a great personal connection to have to such an important battle.  Guadalcanal is also a lot more interesting to me than later battles because it occurred at a time when the forces were closely matched such that it could have gone either way.  This is not to minimize the valor of the Marines who landed on later beaches such as Saipan, Iowa Jima, and Okinawa it is just to point out that if the men who landed on those islands had failed the US would simply have landed more men.  Guadalcanal was different.  Both the US and Japan had serious limitations to their ability to land and supply men on the island.  If those guys had failed, we'd have lost the island.  
I've been to every major Civil War battlefield except Shiloh.
Civil War history is another interest of mine but I have only been to a handful of Civil War Battlefields.  I've been to Gettysburg in part because it is not too far and in part because my Great-Great Grandfather's brother (my great-great-great Uncle) was killed there on July 3, 1863 and is buried in the Cemetery not too far from where Lincoln gave his famous speech (something he said that history would little note nor long remember, LoL).  

I've been to Andersonville but it was as a young child in the back seat and restless/annoyed that we weren't moving on toward Florida so I didn't really appreciate it.  

I also visited a site outside of Atlanta where my Great-Great Grandfather was wounded.  His is a fascinating story and he wrote a diary which my family published back in the 1980's.  Anyway, I was in Atlanta for Ohio State's appearance in the 2007 Final Four and after the Buckeyes won the semi-final on Saturday I had a couple days to kill so I wanted to go see where my ancestor was wounded.  

Funny story about that:
So I was dressed head-to-toe in tOSU gear because I was there for the Final Four.  I got to the battlefield and went to the Ranger to find out where my 2-great grandfather's unit had been.  The ranger was very helpful at first and asked what unit.  I told him, "79th OVI" (79th Ohio Volunteer Infantry) and he grumbled something then "Sherman, burned Atlanta to the ground" to which I responded, "It was 150 years ago!"  They aren't over it down there.  

Anyway, I found the spot and it was amazing.  You learn why they make soldiers out of YOUNG guys.  The Union forces were in a tree line while the Confederates were dug in atop a "mountain" with artillery.  Between the Union's tree line and the base of the mountain was a field probably 1/2 mile wide.  So the Union officers came up with an astoundingly simplistic plan and ordered their troops to:
Unsurprisingly this ingenious plan failed spectacularly.  Worse, it was all a complete waste of time because the next night the Confederates abandoned the position due to the Union Line elsewhere advancing to the point that they were in danger of been surrounded.  

My point about young guys as soldiers is that only an 18 to about 22 year old guy would hear those orders and think "Ok, I'm going to go kick their ass".  Anybody older than that would immediately realize the folly of it.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 27, 2022, 11:44:51 AM
My point about young guys as soldiers is that only an 18 to about 22 year old guy would hear those orders and think "Ok, I'm going to go kick their ass".  Anybody older than that would immediately realize the folly of it. 
Well, you know the old line that young men of that age are "young, dumb, and full of ____"...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 27, 2022, 11:45:51 AM
I've reached an age where I get the idea that I was facing a choice...

Become interested in arcane military history, or take up golf. 

You can see which way I went. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 27, 2022, 11:46:54 AM

I also visited a site outside of Atlanta where my Great-Great Grandfather was wounded.  His is a fascinating story and he wrote a diary which my family published back in the 1980's.  Anyway, I was in Atlanta for Ohio State's appearance in the 2007 Final Four and after the Buckeyes won the semi-final on Saturday I had a couple days to kill so I wanted to go see where my ancestor was wounded. 

Shoot me a PM if it's in book form and could get thru the local library from search Ohio
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 27, 2022, 11:48:18 AM
I've reached an age where I get the idea that I was facing a choice...

Become interested in arcane military history, or take up golf.

You can see which way I went.
Yes you destroy score cards with lead
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 27, 2022, 12:09:51 PM
Yes you destroy score cards with lead
I keep score electronically on my phone.

Otherwise I might need to carry two pencils per round in case I wear one out :57:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Riffraft on January 27, 2022, 12:25:27 PM
I always found it odd that a coworker, who was born in Cuba, and whose birth name was Guillermo, went by "Bill". I had no clue how you got from one to the other. 

I had never known that Guillermo is the Spanish version of Guillaume, which is the French version of William. Hence Guillermo was called Bill.
Back in my graduate schools days, I studied a bunch of dead languages and I found it fascinating the evolution of sounds, letters, etc. and how names evolved between languages and how you could trace words between even seemingly unrelated or distantly related languages if you understood how the letters and sounds evolved. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 12:33:19 PM
The site in Atlanta was apparently Kennesaw Mountain, I presume.  There were other battles here that are now housed over, some historical markers are dotted about including one very near me.  Things in person have a different perspective for me versus studying even good maps.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 27, 2022, 02:21:15 PM
The site in Atlanta was apparently Kennesaw Mountain, I presume.  There were other battles here that are now housed over, some historical markers are dotted about including one very near me.  Things in person have a different perspective for me versus studying even good maps.
Yes, it was and I agree wholeheartedly.  You don't really get a feel for how insane the charges were until you stand in that tree line and look at all of the ground the Union Soldiers were supposed to cover while climbing a mountain and being shot at.  It is the same at Gettysburg.  Reading about it or looking at pictures isn't the same as standing at The Angle and looking out across the vast field that the Confederates ran across while being mowed down in spectacular numbers by Union riflemen and Union cannons loaded with chains, rocks, and whatever else the Union Cannoneers could find (effectively turning a 4" smoothbore cannon into a giant shotgun.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 27, 2022, 02:54:26 PM
Shoot me a PM if it's in book form and could get thru the local library from search Ohio
It looks like the Columbus Library has one but it is "in use":

https://cml.bibliocommons.com/v2/record/S105C981814 (https://cml.bibliocommons.com/v2/record/S105C981814)

Here is one for sale:

https://www.garrisonhousebooks.com/product/18804/Joshua-DeWees-His-Civil-War-Diary-Army-of-the-Cumberland-DeWees--Joseph-editor (https://www.garrisonhousebooks.com/product/18804/Joshua-DeWees-His-Civil-War-Diary-Army-of-the-Cumberland-DeWees--Joseph-editor)

I have his service record of his hanging in my office (will try to attach a picture).  

More on my 2-great grandfather Joshua DeWees:
Joshua was born in Ohio in 1843.  His father William died when he was a child.  He was raised Quaker.  The Quakers opposed slavery but they were also pacifists.  When the Civil War started he felt that sitting around a Meeting House (Quaker version of church) talking about ending slavery was somewhat less effective than joining the Union Army and going down South to free the slaves so he joined up.  

The Quaker Church excommunicated him for joining the Army.  That isn't really true, their term isn't "excommunicated", that is Catholic.  I actually don't know what their term is but Quakers are called "Friends" so I always say that they unfriended him, LoL.  

Joshua's brother Caleb was killed at Gettysburg.  I learned this from reading in Joshua's diary entry for July 5, 1863 that he "received a telegram that brother Caleb had been killed at Gettysburg".  My problem was that Joshua's language made that unclear.  I didn't know if he meant "Brother Caleb" as in "brother in the faith" like "Brother Nubbz" or if he meant his biological brother.  I spent an afternoon at the Historical Society in Columbus and discovered that a Caleb DeWees had served in the 73rd OVI and been killed at Gettysburg on July 3, 1863. 

There is a monument to the 73rd OVI (https://gettysburg.stonesentinels.com/union-monuments/ohio/73rd-ohio/) just South of Gettysburg off Taneytown Rd inside the Gettysburg National Cemetery where my 3-great Uncle Caleb is buried.  The 73rd OVI defended a section of the Union Line near Culps Hill just South of the small village of Gettysburg and not far from the home of Jenni Wade (the only civilian casualty at Gettysburg).  Jennie was killed while baking bread in her kitchen for the Union Soldiers and, for all I know, Caleb may have met her and/or eaten some of her bread because he was in that immediate vicinity.  

Joshua survived the war and had a son in the 1870's who was my great-grandfather.  His daughter was my grandmother (1909-2012) and her daughter (1944-present) is my mom.  In my copy of the diary I have a picture of my grandmother sitting on Joshua's knee and in the picture my grandmother appears to be about 4-5 years old so the picture was probably taken in 1913-1914ish.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 27, 2022, 03:18:00 PM
For a second I thought you wrote Joshua Tree thinking so that's where they got the name for the album and not some desert plant.That would be something if he had really eaten at Jenny Wade's house.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 27, 2022, 03:27:40 PM
I've been to every major Civil War battlefield except Shiloh.
This is really neat.  I will say, it is easier for you in Atlanta since obviously most of the battles were fought in the South.  

The next two I really want to get to are Antietam and Perryville.  

Antietam:
The bloodiest day in American History.  This battle is much less well known than Gettysburg mostly because it was a less comprehensive Union victory but it had a major impact on history.  For one thing, just like Gettysburg about a year later, this battle was forced by the Union as a check on a Confederate invasion of the North.  Secondly, Lincoln had already written the Emancipation Proclamation but he and his Cabinet felt that releasing it would reek of desperation unless it could be released after a Union victory.  Antietam was somewhat inconclusive but that was good enough for Lincoln and the Proclamation was released September 22, 1862 - five days after the Battle.  

Perryville:
This battle has much less of a macro-strategic interest but it has a personal connection.  My 2-Great Grandfather Joshua fought there.  It was his first action.  The 97th OVI had mustered in on September 1, 1862 at Zanesville and was then sent to a camp outside Columbus for training.  About a month later Confederate Troops under Braxton Bragg invaded Kentucky hoping to trigger a secessionist takeover of that state.  Union commanders in the area were short on troops so Joshua's and his unit's training was cut short and they were put on a train bound for Cincinnati.  Then crossed the Ohio River to Covington on a steamboat then marched South.   - side note - 

If you've ever driven South out of Cincy on I71/I75 you know how ENORMOUS that hill is.  Every time I do that it amazes me that these guys did it in wool uniforms while carrying weapons, ammunition, food, etc.  I think I'd have gotten about half way up that hill and said "Why don't we just let them secede".  

Anyway, October 8, 1862 at the Battle of Perryville is listed on Joshua's service record as the first of his "156 days under fire".  

From what I've heard the annual reenactment at Perryville is one of the most well attended in the whole country largely due to the fact that it is one of the few northern battlefields so it is closer to all of the northern reenactors.  Since Joshua was actually there and he was a common soldier I also think that I could get a run of his diary printed up and probably sell them pretty easily at the reenactment.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 03:29:16 PM
Berry Oakley was killed in a motorcycle accident just three blocks from where Duane Allman was killed in a motorcycle accident.  They are buried next to each other.

Buried Here - Gregg Allman, Duane Allman And Berry Oakley (rockandrollroadmap.com) (https://rockandrollroadmap.com/places/burial-sites/other-u-s-locations/rose-hill-cemetery-buried-here-duane-allman-berry-oakey/)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 27, 2022, 03:30:19 PM
For a second I thought you wrote Joshua Tree thinking so that's where they got the name for the album and not some desert plant.That would be something if he had really eaten at Jenny Wade's house.
He may have but obviously it would be impossible to find out since neither he nor Ms. Wade survived the Battle and even if they had they wouldn't be around today since that was 150+ years ago.  I was actually at Gettysburg for the 150th anniversary on July 3, 2013 and there were more of us tourists there then than there were soldiers there in 1863.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 03:35:51 PM
My third book recounts what would have happened, maybe, at Gettysburg had Jackson lived.  In Book Two, he was saved by a slave from being shot.  I like irony.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on January 27, 2022, 04:08:29 PM
My third book recounts what would have happened, maybe, at Gettysburg had Jackson lived.  In Book Two, he was saved by a slave from being shot.  I like irony.
would they have gone to the right like Hood wanted
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 04:12:33 PM
In my recreation of history, the action was all on Day One, there was no Day Two, the Union forces fell back on Pipe Creek and did not hold the ridge line against Jackson's piecemeal late attack that afternoon.  The Pipe Creek line turned out to be impregnable to direct assault.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2022, 04:19:42 PM
On This Day in History > January 27, 1785:
The Georgia General Assembly incorporated the University of Georgia. It was the first state-funded institution of higher learning in the new republic.

"When the University of Georgia was incorporated by an act of the General Assembly on January 27, 1785, Georgia became the first state to charter a state-supported university. In 1784 the General Assembly had set aside 40,000 acres of land to endow a college or seminary of learning.
At the first meeting of the board of trustees, held in Augusta on February 13, 1786, Abraham Baldwin was selected president of the University. Baldwin, a native of Connecticut and a graduate of Yale University who had come to Georgia in 1784, drafted the charter adopted by the General Assembly.
The University was actually established in 1801 when a committee of the board of trustees selected a land site. John Milledge, later a governor of the state, purchased and gave to the board of trustees the chosen tract of 633 acres on the banks of the Oconee River in northeast Georgia.
Josiah Meigs was named president of the University and work was begun on the first building, originally called Franklin College in honor of Benjamin Franklin and now known as Old College. The University graduated its first class in 1804.
The curriculum of traditional classical studies was broadened in 1843 to include courses in law, and again in 1872 when the University received federal funds for instruction in agriculture and mechanical arts."

(https://i.imgur.com/SKfAfgo.png)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 27, 2022, 05:13:00 PM
Florida's role in the Civil War was basically producing food for the South.  No real big battles.  The North kept Key West and Ft Jefferson (the one you can take a seaplane to now) the whole time.

The governor offed himself after the war. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: bayareabadger on January 27, 2022, 06:22:52 PM
I used to live in a town with a lot of 1870s architecture. For ... a reason. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 27, 2022, 06:29:11 PM
You guys might know this:  did Hitler have any inkling about the Japanese planning to bomb Pearl Harbor or any direct attack on the US?  
Did he even share his wishes of what their actions would be?  Did they give the Germans any 'heads up' on their actions or plans?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 27, 2022, 10:59:59 PM
You guys might know this:  did Hitler have any inkling about the Japanese planning to bomb Pearl Harbor or any direct attack on the US? 
Did he even share his wishes of what their actions would be?  Did they give the Germans any 'heads up' on their actions or plans?
I don't know of anything specific that the Japanese gave to Hitler and they probably wouldn't have.  

They believed that secrecy was ABSOLUTELY paramount to the success of what they termed the "Hawaii Operation" and since the Germans couldn't really help them there would have been no reason to take the security risk of tipping them off just as a favor and for no real good reason.  

It was pretty widely believed that Japan would enter the war at some point but very few (if any) people outside of Japan actually knew when or where.  

One guy who is absolutely fascinating is a guy named Richard Sorge.  He was a German Communist and anti-Nazi who joined the Soviet Intelligence network.  Eventually he moved to Japan posing as a Nazi German Journalist and cultivated an astounding spy network mostly operating out of the German Embassy in Tokyo.  Sorge may not have known that the Japanese would hit Pearl Harbor specifically (I'm not sure and it didn't matter much to Stalin anyway).  What he DID know was that the Japanese were going to attack the US and occupy colonial possessions of the US, British, and Dutch and NOT attack the Soviet Union.  That information was passed along to Moscow and led to the Soviets retrieving an enormous number of troops that had been in the far Eastern Soviet Provinces as a screen against potential Japanese invasion.  Those troops got to Moscow and led the Soviet counter-offensive that removed the immediate threat of Nazi occupation of the Soviet Capital.  Interestingly, the Soviet counter-offensive started at almost exactly the same time as the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor which demonstrates that the Soviets pulled the troops BEFORE Japan went to war with the US.  In turn that demonstrates that the Soviets did it based on the information provided by their spies not waiting for the outbreak of hostilities.  

The (short) background is that the Soviets and Japanese had fought an undeclared war along the frontier between Japanese Manchuko (Manchuria) and the Soviet Union in the 1930's.  The Soviets pretty well kicked the Japanese asses (which should have told the Japanese that their Army wasn't really up to first world standards) but in spite of that the Soviets still felt the need to maintain a substantial army in the area in case the Japanese decided to restart hostilities.  That is until Richard Sorge notified them that the Japanese had no such intention.  

The Germans and Japanese were allies of convenience and nothing more.  They were in a somewhat forced marriage by virtue of having a lot of common enemies but they didn't actually like each other.  Hitler had declared that the Japanese were "Honorary Aryans" but he didn't actually believe it.  Hitler, of course, believed in Aryan supremacy and the Japanese were obviously NOT Aryan.  On the flip side it is largely forgotten today but the Japanese were no less racist than the Nazis, just in favor of a different race, their own.  The Japanese believed that their race was superior to all others.  This belief clouded their Army leaders' judgement to an incredible degree.  When confronted with massively superior numbers of more well trained and supplied enemies the Japanese Army higher-ups basically said "well beat them with your Japanese superiority" thus consigning literally millions of Japanese troops to their deaths in actions against ridiculous odds.  

A curious side note:
Japan's capture of Singapore from the British was a massive embarrassment for the British.  The British actually had superior numbers and most Europeans of the day considered Europeans to be superior to "mere" Asians such as the Japanese.  When this happened Hitler's Foreign Minister, Von-Ribbentrop wanted to use it as Propaganda against the British but Hitler forbid it because he felt that the British were fellow Aryans and that any Aryan embarrassment at the hands of "mere" Asians was an embarrassment to all Aryans.  

Think about that for a minute:  At that time Hitler was fighting a desperate war against Britain, the Soviet Union, AND the United States in which he needed any possible advantage that he could get and yet he forbid his underlings to make propaganda use of a startling embarrassment to his longest-standing enemy.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 27, 2022, 11:26:50 PM
Percival surrendered 81,000 troops at Singapore to 34,000 IJF and they were almost completely out of ammo.But he didn't know that,but he really had no reinforcement to speak of with the RAF and RN not in the immediate vicinity.The IJF didn't have much back up around either so ya the crown losing face.Since 1940  British Empire forces "evacuated" from Norway, Netherlands,Belgium and France,Dunkirk.  1941  Greece, Crete,Hong Kong and Libya. 1942  Singapore,Dieppe and Tobruk.What's that 0-11 or sum such
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 28, 2022, 12:32:14 AM
I recently watched a video about that Singapore siege.......the Japanese traversed some difficult "we dont' have to worry about it" terrain (according to the Brits) on bikes, apparently.  Once they popped out from that surprise location, it was too big a disadvantage to recover from.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2022, 08:14:56 AM
Not buying that they had over a 2:1 advantage in infantry the Aritsocrats are/were great at deflecting blame/responibility and were out commanded.The IJF were just as far from their base of supply as the BEF and out of ammo.Ludendorf in WW1 said the British are lions led by jackasses,which in the close to 30 books I've read on the war seems to be accurate.Many of their royals have had titles assigned to them at birth along with a manor or two and an estate. That substance doesn't carry over in directing battlefield operations though with those creeky nobility names - Viscounts,Earls,Dukes - they bullshit themselves into believing it
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 08:33:20 AM
A myth about Singapore was that the big British guns all faced seaward and couldn't be turned about.  Reality was they could, but they had mostly armor piercing ammunition, not useful against a ground force.

The Russians had a heads up about Pearl Harbor, I don't think the Germans did.  The Russians started moving troops from Siberia to Moscow early because of this and blunted the last gasp German offensive, and pushed them back some.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2022, 08:38:09 AM
If FDR had gotten wind of this I wonder how many Studebakers,cases of spam and army boots would have made it to Georgy Zhukov
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 09:12:01 AM
We weren't yet aiding the Russians.

One real oddity about aid to Russia is that Russian cargo ships carried it across the Pacific to Vlad without fear of Japanese interception.  All you needed was a reflagged Russian cargo ship and the Japanese wouldn't touch it.  Of course, then the Russkis had to move the stuff across Siberia to the front.

The Russo-Japanese war of 1937 taught the Japanese a real lesson.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2022, 09:44:55 AM
In lend lease the USA sent 12-1300 locomotives also.After Stalin died there was a brief easing up of tensions and both Zhukov and Khrushchev thanked IKE as POTUS for the massive aide,quite a productive country back in the day.The thing with fighting the IJF was it was different island fighting and damn sure Naval Warfare and logistics,something the Reds never really had
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 10:12:02 AM
Politicians require there be enemies, if one does not exist one is created.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 28, 2022, 10:16:13 AM
Politicians require there be enemies, if one does not exist one is created.
We've always been at war with Eastasia. Or Eurasia. I forget.

Now everyone get ready for your Two Minutes Hate!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 28, 2022, 10:32:27 AM
Percival surrendered 81,000 troops at Singapore to 34,000 IJF and they were almost completely out of ammo.But he didn't know that,but he really had no reinforcement to speak of with the RAF and RN not in the immediate vicinity.The IJF didn't have much back up around either so ya the crown losing face.Since 1940  British Empire forces "evacuated" from Norway, Netherlands,Belgium and France,Dunkirk.  1941  Greece, Crete,Hong Kong and Libya. 1942  Singapore,Dieppe and Tobruk.What's that 0-11 or sum such
"Darkest Hour" is not just a phrase.  The Norway debacle led to the "Norway Debate" in the House of Commons which resulted in Chamberlin stepping down.  Churchill then took over just in time for the German invasion of Western Europe which was a MUCH worse debacle for the British than Norway had been.  They lost their only ally (France) and saw German troops advance practically to within sight of their island.  

Dunkirk was somewhat of a bright spot but wars are not won by evacuations . . .  Except that they kinda are.  The troops pulled out of France at Dunkirk were Britain's most experienced troops.  They formed the nucleus of the force that would return almost exactly four years later at Normandy.  

You mentioned Tobruk and the North Africa Campaign is fascinating.  The opposing forces advanced and retreated then retreated and advanced, then advanced and retreated again over staggering distances.  

Fundamentally wars are won and lost on logistics.  North Africa was no exception.  The Italians and Germans had a lot shorter distance to cover and the Italian Navy, on paper, was a powerful force to be reckoned with.  In reality the Italian Navy spent most of the war confined to home ports for lack of fuel.  Italy's fuel situation was even worse than Germany's as they were dependent on the fuel-starved Germans for oil for their ships.  

For the British (and later also the US) the logistical problems were distance and U-Boats.  North Africa is a REALLY long way from North America/Britain and the Mediterranean was crawling with U-Boats.  

The final downfall was not until late Spring of 1945 but all plausible Axis chances were extinguished not long after the calendar turned from 1942 to 1943.  At about that time the Soviet Operation Uranus surrounded the entire German sixth Army at Stalingrad and almost simultaneously the British and Americans captured almost 300k axis troops in North Africa.  The Germans simply couldn't recover from losses on that scale.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 28, 2022, 10:33:13 AM
If FDR had gotten wind of this I wonder how many Studebakers,cases of spam and army boots would have made it to Georgy Zhukov
He did and they did.  The Russians were the recipients of a staggering amount of US Lend-Lease aid.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 28, 2022, 10:37:41 AM
In lend lease the USA sent 12-1300 locomotives also.After Stalin died there was a brief easing up of tensions and both Zhukov and Khrushchev thanked IKE as POTUS for the massive aide,quite a productive country back in the day.The thing with fighting the IJF was it was different island fighting and damn sure Naval Warfare and logistics,something the Reds never really had
US Gross Product entering WWII was roughly 50% of global Gross Product and it remained around that into the 1950's.  That is just staggering to think about.  Literally half of EVERYTHING made in the world was made in the US.  

Oil was obviously the biggest single factor in WWII and at the time of WWII the US produced around 2/3 of the total world oil supply.  Japanese ships and German Tanks were continually halted by lack of fuel but the Allies only ever experienced that situation as a temporary local issue, never as an overall shortage.  

At the end of WWII if there had been a massive Naval Battle pitting the US Fleet against the rest of the World's combined Navies the rest of the world would have been hopelessly outnumbered.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 10:41:21 AM
One other advantage we had was high octane aviation fuel.  The Germans couldn't make it.  It depended on TEL (lead) in part and branched octane.  

Jimmy Doolittle was also a PhD chemical engineer who was VP of research at Shell Chemical in Houston.  They have an enormous research facility in Westhollow they wanted to name after him, but didn't for some reason.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 28, 2022, 11:13:04 AM
One other advantage we had was high octane aviation fuel.  The Germans couldn't make it.  It depended on TEL (lead) in part and branched octane. 

Jimmy Doolittle was also a PhD chemical engineer who was VP of research at Shell Chemical in Houston.  They have an enormous research facility in Westhollow they wanted to name after him, but didn't for some reason.
If you want to read a LOT more about oil (and sub-categories like the high-octane gasoline you just mentioned) in WWII, click on this link (https://www.usmcu.edu/portals/218/Oil&War_Web.pdf).  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2022, 12:24:48 PM
Politicians require there be enemies, if one does not exist one is created.
Kinda like Football
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2022, 12:28:58 PM
For the British (and later also the US) the logistical problems were distance and U-Boats.  North Africa is a REALLY long way from North America/Britain and the Mediterranean was crawling with U-Boats. 

I was watching special on submarine warfare in WW2 and according from what they said none of the U-Boats returned from the Med.Still out on patrol
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2022, 12:37:09 PM
US Gross Product entering WWII was roughly 50% of global Gross Product and it remained around that into the 1950's.  That is just staggering to think about.  Literally half of EVERYTHING made in the world was made in the US. 

Oil was obviously the biggest single factor in WWII and at the time of WWII the US produced around 2/3 of the total world oil supply.  Japanese ships and German Tanks were continually halted by lack of fuel but the Allies only ever experienced that situation as a temporary local issue, never as an overall shortage. 

At the end of WWII if there had been a massive Naval Battle pitting the US Fleet against the rest of the World's combined Navies the rest of the world would have been hopelessly outnumbered. 
From The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,p. 633 What Churchill called the American "prodigy of organization" had shipped 18 million tons of war supplies to Europe,equivalent to the cargo in 3,600 Liberty Ships or 181,000 rail cars from 800,000 military vehicles to footwear.U.S munitions plants had turned out 40 Billion small arms ammunition,56 million grenades,500 million machine gun bullets & 23 million artillary rounds .By 1945 the USA had built 2/3 rds of all ships afloat and was making half of all manufactured goods in the world including half of all armaments.The enemy was crushed by logistical brilliance,yet the War absorbed barely 1/3rd of American gross domestic product
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 12:42:11 PM
It is tough to comprehend how fast GM et al. changed over to making planes and tanks.  The TBF became the TBM in short order because GM built it.  We had locomotive companies building tanks, along with Ford et al.  And the ammunition, vast hoards of it.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2022, 12:44:38 PM
If you want to read a LOT more about oil (and sub-categories like the high-octane gasoline you just mentioned) in WWII, click on this link (https://www.usmcu.edu/portals/218/Oil&War_Web.pdf). 
https://www.e-education.psu.edu/egee120/book/export/html/237
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2022, 12:46:52 PM
It is tough to comprehend how fast GM et al. changed over to making planes and tanks.  The TBF became the TBM in short order because GM built it.  We had locomotive companies building tanks, along with Ford et al.  And the ammunition, vast hoards of it.
What's that stand for?

Willow run plant in Michigan kicking out 1 B-24 every 63 minutes.I think there were 4 more B-24 plants
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 12:53:50 PM
The TBM was a torpedo bomber, it may stand for that with the M for GM.  They given name was Avenger.  There were six of them on Midway Island during the attack.

The carriers still had the old Devastators.  They were awful.  Japanese planes had longer range than US planes in 1942, in part due to having little to no armor.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 01:17:54 PM
The 1972 Sugar Bowl featured Oklahoma and Penn State.  OU won, and lost.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 28, 2022, 02:29:10 PM
The TBM was a torpedo bomber, it may stand for that with the M for GM.  They given name was Avenger.  There were six of them on Midway Island during the attack.

The carriers still had the old Devastators.  They were awful.  Japanese planes had longer range than US planes in 1942, in part due to having little to no armor.
When I first started learning about WWII and for year afterward I never read WHY the Japanese planes had little-to-no armor and also lacked self sealing tanks.  I always assumed the lack of armor was to save weight and it was but I had no idea why they didn't have self sealing tanks and just assumed that they didn't have the technology.  

Not so.  The Japanese were perfectly capable of making self sealing tanks and they posessed the natural rubber necessary to do so.  They CHOSE not to because the self-sealing bags take up space and weight and thus reduce fuel capacity which in turn reduces range.  

The Zero had a range that was astonishing by 1941 standards mostly due to being light and NOT having self-sealing tanks.  Here are some performance stats for the Zero and the Wildcat which were roughly contemporaries:

The Zero had a 940 hp twin-row 14 cylinder radial engine of 1,687 cuin while the Wildcat had a 1,200 hp twin-row 14 cylinder radial engine of 1,829 cuin.  The Zero substantially outclimbed the Wildcat despite having a deficit of 260 hp because of weight:

The Zero simply weighed a LOT less.  It was also more heavily armed with two 7.7 mm (roughly .30 cal) machine guns and 2 20 mm cannons compared to the Wildcat's four .50 cal machine guns.  The Browning .50 cal guns were a bit bigger than the Zero's 7.7 mm's but barely over half the size of the Zero's 20 mm cannons.  


Interestingly, the entire Japanese Military seems to have designed and built basically everything with the same "offense first" mentality that simply ignored defense and survivability in order to maximize offensive potential.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2022, 02:52:20 PM
I know the hell cats were a step up in the measureables,machine and technology from the WCs. The F-4 Corsair had problems landing on carriers later corrected with like a relief valve in the stabilizer landing gear to prevent the plane from bouncing up/down flight deck sometimes going over board.The brits actually learned to land them like cross wind because the nose was so long the pilot couldn't see where he was going.Also the Marines were mostly land based so thier pilots loved the Corsair that could fly around 450mph
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 28, 2022, 02:59:10 PM
Interestingly, the entire Japanese Military seems to have designed and built basically everything with the same "offense first" mentality that simply ignored defense and survivability in order to maximize offensive potential. 
A great example of this is what happened at Midway.  The Japanese lost four carriers but when you look closer none of the hits that they took would have been likely to be fatal to an equivalent American carrier.  All four were essentially lost to poor design and poor damage control.  

Kaga:
None of these did any structural damage to the watertight integrity but they started fires on the hangar decks that ultimately blew up all the bombs and torpedos stored there along with a massive amount of avgas.  It was the fires that doomed Kaga.  

Akagi:
None of these did any structural damage to the watertight integrity but the ONE hit started fires that the crew proved unable to control and a near-miss aft eventually caused the rudder to jam thus making the ship uncontrollable.  The ship was scuttled.  

Hiryu:
Again, none of these did any structural damage to the watertight integrity but they started fires that the crew couldn't control and the ship was scuttled.  

Soryu:
Again, none of these did any structural damage to the watertight integrity but they started fires that the crew couldn't control and the ship was scuttled.  

Now compare that to the one American Carrier sunk at Midway:
Yorktown:
First, Yorktown took at 550 lb bomb hit at Coral Sea along with "up to 12 near misses" that damaged the hull below the waterline.  This damage was NOT fully repaired in time for the Battle of Midway but the Carrier was badly needed so it was sent out anyway basically with duct tape over the holes and repair crews still aboard.  

Next at Midway:
They repaired that damage and resumed flight operations, then:
The torpedos Obviously did major damage to watertight integrity and the ship was abandoned but remained afloat so a salvage party was sent back aboard to try to save the ship, then:


Yorktown absorbed about as much explosives as all four Japanese Carriers combined.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 28, 2022, 03:15:51 PM
I know the hell cats were a step up in the measureables,machine and technology from the WCs. The F-4 Corsair had problems landing on carriers later corrected with like a relief valve in the stabilizer landing gear the plane would bounce up/down flight deck sometimes going over board.The brits actually learned to land them like cross wind because the nose was so long the pilot couldn't see where he was going.Also the Marines were mostly land based so thier pilots loved the Corsair that could fly around 450mph
The Corsair is my all-time favorite plane mostly because my great-aunt worked at the Blimp Building in Akron building them during WWII.  The Corsair was a Vought plane but during the war they were also built by Brewster and Goodyear.  The Vought planes were F4U's while the Brewster planes were F3A's and the Goodyear machines were FG's.  My great-aunt helped build the FG's.  

Truly an amazing plane:

It was also HIGHLY accomplished in a fighter-bomber role.  

The story of the Brits figuring out how to land it on carriers is interesting to say the least.  It was designed to be a carrier-based fighter bomber (could carry 4,000 lbs of bombs) but the US Navy at first rejected it because of the site-line issue that you pointed out.  The Brits REALLY liked the plane to they set about figuring out how to get around that issue and succeeded.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2022, 03:37:37 PM
Dick Best,Dusty Kleiss and a 3rd Pilot whose name escapes me hit 3 of the 4 carriers at The Battle of Midway.Talk about balls and being cool customers with ice running thru their veins
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 28, 2022, 03:51:34 PM
Dick Best,Dusty Kleiss and a 3rd Pilot whose name escapes me hit 3 of the 4 carriers at The Battle of Midway.Talk about balls and being cool customers with ice running thru their veins
One of them (I forget which) was only hit because Best had the presence of mind to switch targets when he saw that his initial target was already in flames.  Otherwise the morning attack would have only sunk two of the four Japanese Carriers.  Later that day the one remaining Japanese Carrier fatally damaged Yorktown in return for being fatally damaged herself.  If two had survived the morning . . .
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 28, 2022, 05:21:04 PM
...we would've dropped 3 bombs on 'em!  Fat Man, Little Boy, and Goldilocks!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 05:22:04 PM
US carriers would flood gasoline lines with nitrogen when at GQ, the Japanese didn't.  

They did add a lot of armor to the Yamato class battleship.  They probably could have built 4-5 fleet carriers for one Yamato.

The Germans almost finished their own fleet carrier late in the war, as if it could possibly have helped them at all.  They had some really poor direction of war material production especially before Speer took the job.  The Russians built two basic tanks,  the T-34 in great numbers and the heavier KV series that was the basis for the JS-2 Stalin tank.  The Germans scattered their efforts over many platforms including some truly enormous tanks never finished.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2022, 05:23:53 PM
One of them (I forget which) was only hit because Best had the presence of mind to switch targets when he saw that his initial target was already in flames.  Otherwise the morning attack would have only sunk two of the four Japanese Carriers.  Later that day the one remaining Japanese Carrier fatally damaged Yorktown in return for being fatally damaged herself.  If two had survived the morning . . .
27 planes went after the kaga ,3 went after the Akagi.The weird thing was their timing was perfect but not planned pretty much improvised on a whim.A supremely great call by Commander Wade McCluskie.The IJF Fliers had just got back from bombing Mid Way and torpedo and dive bombers were right on the decks - ripe for the picking. Here is a great Docu from the US Naval War College of Maritme History

https://youtu.be/wyFZ3cJRrcg

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2022, 05:28:34 PM
The Germans almost finished their own fleet carrier late in the war, as if it could possibly have helped them at all.  They had some really poor direction of war material production especially before Speer took the job.  The Russians built two basic tanks,  the T-34 in great numbers and the heavier KV series that was the basis for the JS-2 Stalin tank.  The Germans scattered their efforts over many platforms including some truly enormous tanks never finished.
The Russians loved the Sherman as it was dependable,the T-34 carried 2 trannys on board.The T-34 also had the American Christie suspension system in it. I wonder how CWS is missing all of this
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 05:34:55 PM
I rewatched part of the new Midway movie and once again found it to be awful.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 05:37:19 PM
The T-34 was a good tank, generally, much better than anything the Germans had in 1941.  The Sherman was very reliable, but it was not on scene in 1941, we were starting making the Grant/Lee tanks then which had no turret.  The Panther design was influenced by the T-34 features.  The early versions of it were not reliable either.

There is a neat video about the "best tank of WW 2" I'll try and find.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 05:41:36 PM
The Best Tank of World War 2 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cNGfHEhtng)

This is pretty funny, I think.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2022, 05:42:43 PM
I rewatched part of the new Midway movie and once again found it to be awful.
That's not the movie though it's pictured
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2022, 05:46:28 PM
That's not the movie though it's pictured
I know.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 28, 2022, 06:30:09 PM
Tank talk?

This was one of my favorite video games as a kid.

(https://i.imgur.com/hPCmk8z.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2022, 08:01:27 AM
The Russians loved the Sherman as it was dependable,the T-34 carried 2 trannys on board.The T-34 also had the American Christie suspension system in it. I wonder how CWS is missing all of this
Russians didn't expect their tanks to last long in battle, so they crudely threw them out there almost as fodder to overwhelm the Germans.  The T-34-85 was used in the Korean War by the North with good early effect.

I read somewhere one reason the Roman Legions were so effective was hygeine, they'd put their latrines away from camp and any waterway.  The other armies would congregate and basically get sick and lose many effectives.  This happened in the US Civil War because city folks had different resistance to disease than country folks.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2022, 08:33:11 AM
The Marshall Court, 1801-1835 | The Supreme Court Historical Society (supremecourthistory.org) (https://supremecourthistory.org/history-of-the-court-history-of-the-courts/history-of-the-court-history-of-the-courts-the-marshall-court-1801-1835/#:~:text=Marshall found an escape from,an Act of Congress)

I recently read a biography of Marshall, very interesting to me.  The country was very unsettled, ha, back then as well.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 29, 2022, 10:21:19 AM
Tank talk?

This was one of my favorite video games as a kid.

(https://i.imgur.com/hPCmk8z.png)

Did you ever play games like Tank Wars or Scorched Earth?

They were simple 2D battlefields where you'd select power, angle, and weapon, and try to blow up the other tanks.

(https://i.imgur.com/fpi8Wye.png)x

When I was in high school I took a Computer Science class. Once I got through the first day and looked at the syllabus, I knew it was a joke. Basically you start with a simple concept like a loop, learn it, and then spend the next three weeks "practicing" before moving on to the next concept.

So I knew working at that pace would drive me batty. So I looked at the "final project" requirements, and it was just that you had to write a program that incorporated all of the various programming elements you spent the semester "practicing". The kind of program that you or I could write in about 30 minutes would satisfy the requirements. 

I said screw that, and immediately started working on writing a version of this game for the Apple IIgs. I can't recall whether it was in BASIC or in Pascal, but it incorporated terrain, three different weapon sizes, wind, etc.

I wish I had actual photos or video of the final product, but alas that was before digital photography was much of a thing, and long before we all carried cellphone cameras...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 29, 2022, 10:36:02 AM
Yup I definitely played those games, and I recall you talking about the one you created.

It's interesting and not all that surprising, because I too wrote a similar game, but it was a Lunar Lander knockoff.  I did when I had my Atari 400 and it was definitely written in BASIC, I didn't learn Pascal until a few years later.  I was able to save it permanently on my tape drive and reload it whenever I wanted to fire it up again, which was a big deal! :)

(https://i.imgur.com/tJgBsrW.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: bayareabadger on January 29, 2022, 10:37:14 AM


I said screw that, and immediately started working on writing a version of this game for the Apple IIgs. I can't recall whether it was in BASIC or in Pascal, but it incorporated terrain, three different weapon sizes, wind, etc.
Tell me you were destined for engineering without telling me you were destined for engineering. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 29, 2022, 10:39:42 AM
You can't spell geek without EE.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 29, 2022, 11:37:47 AM
Oh man, I remember a game like that.  It wasn't tanks, just different-colored bases and you'd try to kill the others with crazy weapons by gauging the arc of the shot, etc.

We played that for hours!!! 

edit:
(Scorched Earth!!!!)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 29, 2022, 02:58:12 PM
Which one famously had that "All your base are belong to us"?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 29, 2022, 03:16:13 PM
Yup I definitely played those games, and I recall you talking about the one you created.

It's interesting and not all that surprising, because I too wrote a similar game, but it was a Lunar Lander knockoff.  I did when I had my Atari 400 and it was definitely written in BASIC, I didn't learn Pascal until a few years later.  I was able to save it permanently on my tape drive and reload it whenever I wanted to fire it up again, which was a big deal! :)

(https://i.imgur.com/tJgBsrW.png)


I remember the tape drive on my Commodore 64... Everyone other than the two of us probably doesn't realize that it was a standard cassette tape lol...

You could reload it whenever you wanted, as long as you let the tape run for ~25 minutes to advance to the point where it was stored!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 29, 2022, 04:05:22 PM
I remember the tape drive on my Commodore 64... Everyone other than the two of us probably doesn't realize that it was a standard cassette tape lol...

You could reload it whenever you wanted, as long as you let the tape run for ~25 minutes to advance to the point where it was stored!

Ha!  Indeed.


Which one famously had that "All your base are belong to us"?

It was called "Zero Wing" but I don't recall ever playing it, I was pretty much done with video games by 1992, other than playing Doom on my PC.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2022, 09:00:41 AM
One fellow somewhat forgotten in US histories is Charles Martel.  Had it not been for him, we might all be Muslims today.

Battle of Tours | Facts, History, & Importance | Britannica (https://www.britannica.com/event/Battle-of-Tours-732)

Charles had a grandson is is far better known than he is.  Spain was totally recovered in 1492, a year more known for another event.  There later was a significant battle for Vienna that may have led to the croissant, or not.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2022, 09:05:38 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/jHXRV4e.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 30, 2022, 09:32:32 AM
Didn't Eiffel's company erect the statue of liberty or sum such?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2022, 09:56:13 AM
The copper statue, a gift from the people of France to the people of the United States, was designed by French sculptor Frédéric Auguste Bartholdi and its metal framework was built by Gustave Eiffel. The statue was dedicated on October 28, 1886. The statue is a figure of Libertas, a robed Roman liberty goddess.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 30, 2022, 12:25:13 PM
I wish they'd paint Lady Liberty bronze, so we could see how that looks for awhile.  I guess it's not smart to spend the money, knowing how temporary it would be.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 30, 2022, 12:26:16 PM
One fellow somewhat forgotten in US histories is Charles Martel.  Had it not been for him, we might all be Muslims today.

I always love ideas like this.  You guys may be Muslims in this alternate reality, but I'd still be an atheist.  
Or dead....depending on how orthodox you were.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on January 30, 2022, 12:38:42 PM
Fro would be parading around in a burqa, either voluntarily or involuntarily. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 30, 2022, 12:45:12 PM
One fellow somewhat forgotten in US histories is Charles Martel.  Had it not been for him, we might all be Muslims today.

Battle of Tours | Facts, History, & Importance | Britannica (https://www.britannica.com/event/Battle-of-Tours-732)

Charles had a grandson is is far better known than he is.  Spain was totally recovered in 1492, a year more known for another event.  There later was a significant battle for Vienna that may have led to the croissant, or not. 
Some disagree but I believe that the Battle of Tours is the most consequential Battle in human history. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2022, 01:25:49 PM
Some disagree but I believe that the Battle of Tours is the most consequential Battle in human history.
It certainly is one of, if not the.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 30, 2022, 01:34:23 PM
Wow, you guys really hate Islam.

To me, it's just a newer poisonous, oppressive, invented, murderous, silly religion than the one that defeated the Umayyad that day(s).
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2022, 01:38:50 PM
Wow, you guys really hate Islam.

To me, it's just a newer poisonous, oppressive, invented, murderous, silly religion than the one that defeated the Umayyad that day(s).
Where here did anyone express hatred of Islam?  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2022, 01:39:03 PM
Why Did the Restoration of the Monarchy Happen? | History Hit (https://www.historyhit.com/return-of-the-king-why-the-restoration-happened/?fbclid=IwAR0-MPy_U9BBH8KKgkT1W26gyx089HvfEbZ0vznRdGgfcwMvaeTZ1jvv_dE)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 30, 2022, 01:39:50 PM
Where here did anyone express hatred of Islam? 
Why else would that battle be so important in your eyes?  Your hatred of sandals?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2022, 01:40:52 PM
It was obviously a major historic turning point, it has nothing to do with hatred to note that fact.

Nobody here expressed anything remotely like hatred of Islam, well, except for you.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2022, 01:43:52 PM
I find Charles Martel interesting because of his influence on the course of history coupled with the fact I don't recall any of this being taught in history class, I could well have missed it.  I do recall some stuff about the Holy Roman Empire from history classes, along with the pithy quote about it.

I personally think it important to have some knowledge of pivotal moments and events in history.  This battle was one of them, simple as that.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2022, 02:18:22 PM
As of 2018, the Haber process produces 230 million tonnes of anhydrous ammonia per year (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonia).[48] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process#cite_note-48) The ammonia is used mainly as a nitrogen fertilizer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fertilizers) as ammonia itself, in the form of ammonium nitrate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonium_nitrate), and as urea (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urea). The Haber process consumes 3–5% of the world's natural-gas production (around 1–2% of the world's energy supply).[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process#cite_note-Smil_2004_Enriching-4)[49] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process#cite_note-49)[50] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process#cite_note-50)[51] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process#cite_note-51) In combination with advances in breeding, herbicides and pesticides, these fertilizers have helped to increase the productivity of agricultural land:
Quote
With average crop yields remaining at the 1900 level[,] the crop harvest in the year 2000 would have required nearly four times more land[,] and the cultivated area would have claimed nearly half of all ice-free continents, rather than under 15% of the total land area that is required today.[52] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process#cite_note-Smil_2011-52)
The energy-intensivity of the process contributes to climate change and other environmental problems:
Since nitrogen use efficiency (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_use_efficiency) is typically less than 50%,[54] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process#cite_note-Oenema_2009-54) farm runoff from heavy use of fixed industrial nitrogen disrupts biological habitats.[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process#cite_note-Smil_2004_Enriching-4)[55] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process#cite_note-Howarth_2008-55)
Nearly 50% of the nitrogen found in human tissues originated from the Haber–Bosch process.[56] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process#cite_note-56) Thus, the Haber process serves as the "detonator of the population explosion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_overpopulation)", enabling the global population (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_population) to increase from 1.6 billion in 1900 to 7.7 billion by November 2018.[57] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process#cite_note-Smil_1999-57)


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 30, 2022, 03:55:49 PM
It was obviously a major historic turning point, it has nothing to do with hatred to note that fact.

Nobody here expressed anything remotely like hatred of Islam, well, except for you.
You get that it was a joke, right?
What would have been the "bad" outcome if that battle had turned out differently?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2022, 04:43:54 PM
A joke or a poor effort to backtrack?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 30, 2022, 06:06:40 PM
lol, backtrack what???

The joke was that the suggestion of the war going the other way would end in islam spreading to the western world instead of christianity and my failing to see the big difference.

Your suggesting it was a huge deal suggests you think all of you guys being muslim is worse than being christian.

Explaining this out is a waste of time, but for you, necessary.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on January 30, 2022, 06:45:43 PM
lol, backtrack what???

The joke was that the suggestion of the war going the other way would end in islam spreading to the western world instead of christianity and my failing to see the big difference.

Your suggesting it was a huge deal suggests you think all of you guys being muslim is worse than being christian.

Explaining this out is a waste of time, but for you, necessary.
only you would have come up with that point of view
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 30, 2022, 07:08:17 PM
Oh, then I must be wrong.





LOL
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2022, 07:40:48 PM
https://www.livescience.com/42716-epic-battles-that-changed-history.html

Interesting list I think.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 30, 2022, 09:13:02 PM
The 1922 MLB season is the only one when both leagues batting champions hit better than .400. In the National League St Louis Cardinals Rogers Hornsby hit .401 in the A.L. George Sisler of the St Louis Browns hit .420
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 30, 2022, 10:56:45 PM
Wow, you guys really hate Islam.

To me, it's just a newer poisonous, oppressive, invented, murderous, silly religion than the one that defeated the Umayyad that day(s).
If you want a serious answer to this question from the perspective of a highly anti-religious atheist please read some of what Christopher Hitchens had to say about Islam.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2007/07/why-are-we-so-scared-of-offending-muslims.html


 (https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2007/07/why-are-we-so-scared-of-offending-muslims.html)Hitchens opposed all religions but he was smart enough to realize that they were not equally detrimental even though he believed that they were all detrimental. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 30, 2022, 11:08:31 PM
Of course, he's speaking about here and now.  And he was right, as he usually was (not always).  

But if Christianity had its worst atrocities hundreds of years ago and Islam is hundreds of years younger than Christianity, is one not simply the younger brother following in his older brother's footsteps?

It doesn't help the victim today, but it doesn't make any sense to expect the younger religion to fast-forward its maturity/liberalism/evolution any faster than the older one.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 30, 2022, 11:10:28 PM
It's the same god, following godawful books, and one has an extra messiah.  Neither has ever produced anything remotely close to actual evidence of a god.

They're the same bad idea, spaced 500 years apart.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 31, 2022, 12:06:02 AM
No, it is not.

There are major fundamental differences between religions.

The chief one is that Christianity's founder never took up arms while Islam's founder was a conquering warlord. From that it is hardly surprising that Islam is basically custom designed for an armed camp with teachings such as the 72 virgins thing whereas Christianity teaches adherents to turn the other cheek.

Similarly Islam teaches adherents to be honest with each other where Christianity teaches adherents to be honest with everyone. 


They are not the same religion at different stages of development they are fundamentally different religions. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 05:40:52 AM
Weird history indeed.  I tend not to trust what adherents of one religion have to say about another, generally speaking.  Obviously, the battle of Tours, wherever it was, was historically significant and not taught in schools that I can recall.

When the Catholics cleared Spain of Muslims, they also cleared it of Jews, and many of the Jews went to Islamic regions, many of them well educated at the time.  They were able to live in a Muslim society quite well, back then.  The enmity between the two had not really taken hold until much later.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 31, 2022, 08:11:22 AM
The popes in the middle ages told the Jewish Folks to join or else.Of course later they told Martin Luther to quit pointing out their hypocrisy and fall in line - basically the same thing.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 09:01:38 AM
We spent a week in Avignon where the popes lived for over a century, instead of Rome, and then there were two popes for a while.  We toured the palace of the popes there, it's large, and sort of dark and dingy.  Just north of there is some rather good wine the popes had a hand in starting.

It's surprising how few Jews live in the world today really considering their outsized influence on events and history.

Edit:  I suppose I should add I feel no animosity towards Jews, in case someone wanted to read that into my comments.  I probably should add the same for Muslims broadly speaking, and Christians, and Atheists, and Zoroastrians, etc.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 31, 2022, 09:33:40 AM
 I read somewhere that there are between 14-17 million Jewish people living today.How they came to those numbers I haven't the foggiest. Earth Population is at like 7.9 billion. The article went on to say that Jewish People  were awarded like 1/4 of the Nobel Prizes given for Science/Medicine.If accurate that's pretty impressive
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 09:40:56 AM
I've read 20 million, it's still a tiny number.  There are a lot of Jews who are atheists/agnostics, in my experience, like Einstein for example (who did believe in a Creator).  They are not adherents to the religion itself but identify with the culture and heritage.  Of my Jewish acquaintances, NONE of them were religious.  One even went to a Jewish Temple for agnostics, I had never heard of such a thing.  It was about heritage.  

I suppose I am frightened of their space laser though.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 31, 2022, 09:43:56 AM
Go to a Deli and have a Pastrami Sammich and don't worry about it
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 09:44:25 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/XzFLdBz.png)

The nine different ethnic groups of Bukovina region, (Austria-Hungary), 1902

From top left: Hutsul, Hungarian, Rom (Romani or Gypsy), Lipovan, Jew, Pole, Schwab, Romanian, Rusyn


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 09:45:12 AM
Go to a Deli and have a Pastrami Sammich and don't worry about it
Now I'm hungry.  I do enjoy a good Rueben.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 09:48:26 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/sDVLOoT.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2022, 09:49:12 AM
Now I'm hungry.  I do enjoy a good Rueben.
I believe a Reuben violates Kosher practices. Meat and dairy can't be together...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 09:52:36 AM
The nature of Kosher salt is interesting, to me, the salt itself isn't kosher (or not).  It relates to something else.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 31, 2022, 09:53:01 AM
The nine different ethnic groups of Bukovina region, (Austria-Hungary), 1902

From top left: Hutsul, Hungarian, Rom (Romani or Gypsy), Lipovan, Jew, Pole, Schwab, Romanian, Rusyn
I had read during Roman times the people of what is Romania were so hostile and combative they were driven/removed from the area and replaced with Romans. I wonder if the people driven off turned into the group we now know as Gypsies
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 31, 2022, 09:55:06 AM
I believe a Reuben violates Kosher practices. Meat and dairy can't be together...
They can't all be that religeous,we'll start our own affiliation - The Ruebens.What say you Brother Bwarb?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 31, 2022, 10:00:50 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/sDVLOoT.png)
The Fillmore East?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 31, 2022, 10:42:27 AM
Man I love a good reuben on marbled rye.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2022, 11:15:28 AM
They can't all be that religeous,we'll start our own affiliation - The Ruebens.What say you Brother Bwarb?
I won't join any cult religion that doesn't allow beer or bacon, BTW. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 31, 2022, 11:23:39 AM
No, it is not.

There are major fundamental differences between religions.

The chief one is that Christianity's founder never took up arms while Islam's founder was a conquering warlord. From that it is hardly surprising that Islam is basically custom designed for an armed camp with teachings such as the 72 virgins thing whereas Christianity teaches adherents to turn the other cheek.

Similarly Islam teaches adherents to be honest with each other where Christianity teaches adherents to be honest with everyone.


They are not the same religion at different stages of development they are fundamentally different religions.
I'll bet you a dollar that in 500 years, Islam is harmless. 

And this is the most slanted comparison a person could write up in 2 minutes.  Thanks for proving my point. 

The 2 religions worship the same god, proclaim peace and love, and are literally traced back to 2 brothers!!!  They both believe in heaven and hell, both believe in Satan, both believe in the afterlife, both believe Jesus was born of a virgin and that Jesus will return.  Both religious texts promote spreading the religions and how is that done?  We all know - by force or murder.  They both advocate for women to dress modestly.  Christianity has evolved past this, gradually, over time. 

Anyone holding Christianity above Islam or better than Islam is taking a snapshot of a race where the 2 religions started 500 years apart.  Period.
Any horrific message you can find in the Quran you can easily find in the Bible.  Yet thanks to having a 500-year head start, many of us are able to ignore the absurdities and just plain errors in the Bible.  Today's Christitans have the luxury of cherry-picking because of that 500-year head start.

500 years from now, Islam will be radically more liberal.  Easily.  Obviously.  The orthodox followers will dwindle over time, just as they have in every other religion. 

There will be Saudi women in crescent moon bikinis drinking beer by then.  It's virtually certain.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 31, 2022, 11:24:44 AM
I won't join any cult religion that doesn't allow beer or bacon, BTW.
You'll be able to join Islam in 500 years or less.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 31, 2022, 12:21:20 PM
I won't join any cult religion that doesn't allow beer or bacon, BTW.
I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member. - Groucho Marx (https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/groucho-marx-quotes)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 31, 2022, 12:27:45 PM
I'll bet you a dollar that in 500 years, Islam is harmless. 

There will be Saudi women in crescent moon bikinis drinking beer by then.  It's virtually certain.
Should the Super Natural Big Guy,allow it I'll take the elevator down to your floor and show you that never happened.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2022, 12:43:20 PM
Moot point anyway.

500 years from now, humanity and the world in general will be so radically transformed from what it is today that these discussions will make no sense.

The nature of technology is exponential. 500 years ago (roughly the time of Christopher Columbus sailin' the ocean blue), they might have recognized the general potential of the industrial revolution occurring. Do you think they could conceive of television? The internet? 

We basically started figuring out electricity in the second half of the 1800s. By just after 1900 we had demonstrated powered flight. By the 1940s our wars were fought with jet aircraft and rudimentary rockets. By 1970 we'd put a man on the moon. By today my watch triangulates my position based on satellites in space to tell me how far I am from the green on a golf course, with accuracy of ~1 yard. 

The electric telegraph came into use about the same time, mid-to-second half of the 1800s. The telephone's first proof of concept was in 1876. Another 25-30 years before radio came around. It wasn't until the 1930s that television made its appearance. From there we really only had marginal telecommunications change (making things better and cheaper) until the internet, which didn't really show up until the 1990s, but in 25 years has remade the entire world. 

In 500 years humanity will have either made ourselves extinct, or we'll have made ourselves superhumans via technology. 

But either way the concept of "Islam" or "Christianity" will be as relevant then as the concept of Zeus and Hera are now. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 31, 2022, 12:44:26 PM
I'll bet you a dollar that in 500 years, Islam is harmless. 

And this is the most slanted comparison a person could write up in 2 minutes.  Thanks for proving my point. 

The 2 religions worship the same god, proclaim peace and love, and are literally traced back to 2 brothers!!!  They both believe in heaven and hell, both believe in Satan, both believe in the afterlife, both believe Jesus was born of a virgin and that Jesus will return.  Both religious texts promote spreading the religions and how is that done?  We all know - by force or murder.  They both advocate for women to dress modestly.  Christianity has evolved past this, gradually, over time. 

Anyone holding Christianity above Islam or better than Islam is taking a snapshot of a race where the 2 religions started 500 years apart.  Period.
Any horrific message you can find in the Quran you can easily find in the Bible.  Yet thanks to having a 500-year head start, many of us are able to ignore the absurdities and just plain errors in the Bible.  Today's Christitans have the luxury of cherry-picking because of that 500-year head start.

500 years from now, Islam will be radically more liberal.  Easily.  Obviously.  The orthodox followers will dwindle over time, just as they have in every other religion.

There will be Saudi women in crescent moon bikinis drinking beer by then.  It's virtually certain.
First your $1 bet is no different than a religious persons' affirmation of faith.  Since neither of us would be around to collect on the bet it is obviously rhetorical.  That said, I'd be inclined to agree.  

If I had proved your point you'd be able to refute something, anything that I said.  Since you can't, you apparently proved mine.  

Look, I gave you a source that I chose specifically so that YOU would respect it.  The Source is the author of "God is not Great".  I couldn't possibly have come up with a source more to YOUR liking.  I gave you that much, give me something back or go away as a troll.  It would be appreciated if you would at least respect THAT enough to actually engage with it rather than brushing it off with assertions that can neither be proven nor falsified and/or outright falsehoods.  

Your statement that "... started 500 years apart." is outright false and I explained why, quoting Hitchens above.  If you aren't able to deal with that, go away.  Hitchens was much smarter than you or I and I already gave you a source that you should have no objections to.  Engage or go away.  

"Any horrific message you can find din the Quran you can easily find in the Bible."  No.  I already gave several but since you implied that the Bible commands Christians to spread their religion by the sword I'll add that.  The Quran does, the Bible doesn't.  Period.  Similarly, the Quran has the 72 virgins thing for adherents who die in a holy war, the Bible has no such passage.  

As I stated above, the Bible teaches it's adherents to treat everyone under the same rules.  The 10 Commandments, for example, are not appended by a notice that they only apply when dealing with other Jews/Christians.  Three of the 10 deal with religion so they are irrelevant to outsiders.  Two more deal with intra-family relationships so they are only relevant to an outsider if that outsider is either the spouse, parent, or child of an adherent.  Two more command adherents not to covet the things that other people have so again this is largely irrelevant to an outsider.  The final three are:
Note here that in the Judeo-Christian tradition these commands are general.  Don't do these things, period.  In Islam similar commands exist but they are understood to mean "Don't kill other Muslims", "Don't steal from other Muslims", and "Don't lie to other Muslims" and NOT as commands for dealing with outsiders.  

This is a major fundamental difference.  

Also, nowhere in the Bible does it command adherents to spread the faith by the sword.  This is NOT true of the Quran.  

That said, many horrible things have been done in the name of religion but that is a completely different question.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 31, 2022, 12:51:23 PM
Because it's just incredulous to you, right?  

If so, then you're just putting your head in the sand when it comes to the radical changes in Christianity in the past 500 years.  Sorry friend, but this shit isn't static, it's fluid.  And it flows more socially liberal.  Every day, there are fewer gaps for god to hide in as our knowledge grows.  

I have no idea what they'll call it, but there will be a reformation-esque paradigm shift in what women wear in the Muslim world.  Apostates will be free to go on living normal lives, they'll dine on ham and bacon, and will separate church and state.  

Because all of its doctrines are bullshit - another thing both religions have in common.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 31, 2022, 01:28:53 PM
The nature of technology is exponential. 500 years ago (roughly the time of Christopher Columbus sailin' the ocean blue), they might have recognized the general potential of the industrial revolution occurring. Do you think they could conceive of television? The internet?
I had a class in Economic History at Ohio State that was absolutely fascinating.  The nature of technology is exponential except not always.  The Professor started the class with the assertion that for all of Human History up until about 500 years ago our ancestors lived at or near subsistence.  Ie, they barely had enough food to survive so basically their entire lives were a never-ending struggle with famine.  There were a few times in a few places where humans advanced somewhat beyond this but they didn't keep advancing. 

He pointed out that the Egyptians were pretty far above subsistence as evidenced by the fact that they built the Pyramids.  They obviously had enough surplus food to be able to support a substantial labor force building pyramids.  Someone in the class then pointed out that the Egyptians used slave laborers and the Professor replied with two things:

Similarly, the Romans were quite a bit above subsistence for a while as were the Chinese at one time and other cultures as well but none of them managed to achieve that "exponential technology".  Instead, each of the cultures that got themselves above bare subsistence for a while eventually waned and fell back to that bare subsistence level. 

It wasn't until Europe starting about 500 years ago that your "exponential technology" started to take hold. 

Curiously, one of the major triggers of the industrial revolution was the plague.  The Black Death killed around 50% of Europe's population between roughly 1346-1353.  One would think, intuitively, that this would be horrific and of course it was for the individuals who died of it and for their survivors but it was a massive economic boon. 

Think of it this way:
Imagine that @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) and I are brothers and that we have two other brothers, we'll call them Darryl and Darryl.  Now suppose that our parents have left the four of us:
Now suppose that Darryl and Darryl both die of the Black Death.  That is horrible and Beta and I would be very sad burrying our brothers but once we get past that, we will find that Beta and I now own:
In other words, Beta's and my per-capita wealth just increased by 100%. 

Then there is another interesting factor.  The Professor asked:
"If you only need 50% as much food due to the plague killing 50% of your people, what percentage of your farmland do you need to farm?"

Someone replied 50%.  The Professor thundered "NO".  Farmland is not all equal.  Some land is more productive than other land.  Thus if we only need 50% as much food we can probably get away with farming the most productive third of the farmland that we previously needed. 

Taking those together, Beta and I now have more tools (plows, oxen) and we each have a house and now we only need to farm a combined four acres which either of us can handle while only using 2/3 of the acreage that we own leaving the other one free to do something else like go invent stuff. 

Ie, in our post-plague reality I can farm four of my six acres and produce enough food for both Beta and I and Beta (the engineer) can go invent stuff to make me even more efficient.  This is basically how the Black Death contributed to the exponential increases in technology that started emanating from Europe about 500 years ago. 


One other interesting catalyst for the Industrial Revolution:
Britain ran out of wood.  Seriously, the British Isles aren't all that big and as their population increased they eventually starting running low on trees.  They weren't actually out but the price of wood began to increase because trees were no longer seen as infinitely available.  People had known for years that there was a black substance that could be found in the ground in some places that burned hotter than wood (coal) but as long as trees were infinitely available it didn't make economic sense to dig up coal when it was much easier to chop down trees.  The use of coal grew in England specifically because they were low on trees.  The use of coal contributed to two things that were vital to the Industrial Revolution:

Interesting point:
Both the Romans and the Egyptians were REALLY close to the industrial revolution.  The Romans had hot-water heat which required a boiler and at least a basic understanding of the idea that when you heat water it turns to steam and expands.  They used that for heating homes and baths but that was it.  They stopped there.  It really doesn't take much to get from that to "hey, we could use this expanding water stuff (steam) to make power and convert it to rotational motion and build a train to take our legions to the front". 

The Egyptians actually had a palace toy that was basically a pipe with outlets on opposite sides placed over boiling water.  It would spin.  That is literally a rudimentary steam engine.  Put a pully on top of that sucker and . . . Industrial Revolution.  They never did. 

Consider where we would be if the Romans or the Egyptians had launched the Industrial Revolution several millennia or more prior to it's historical launch. 


Two final points because I find these fascinating.  If you go to Rome today you can see the Roman ruins.  Parts of the Colosseum and other Roman structures are visible.  We consider them to be ancient because they are around 2,000 years old.  When the Romans who built those things got to Egypt the Pyramids were older than the Roman ruins are now.  Ie, Imperial Rome is closer in time to us now than it is to the ancient Egyptian civilization. 

The Spanish under Ferdinand and Isabella famously completed kicking the Muslims out of Spain in 1492.  Note that the Umayyad conquest of Hispania began in 711.  Ie, Christoper Columbus is closer in time to us than he is to pre-Muslim Spain. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 31, 2022, 01:31:16 PM
Look, I gave you a source that I chose specifically so that YOU would respect it.  The Source is the author of "God is not Great".  I couldn't possibly have come up with a source more to YOUR liking.  I gave you that much, give me something back or go away as a troll.  It would be appreciated if you would at least respect THAT enough to actually engage with it rather than brushing it off with assertions that can neither be proven nor falsified and/or outright falsehoods. 
Because it's just incredulous to you, right? 

If so, then you're just putting your head in the sand when it comes to the radical changes in Christianity in the past 500 years.  Sorry friend, but this shit isn't static, it's fluid.  And it flows more socially liberal.  Every day, there are fewer gaps for god to hide in as our knowledge grows. 

I have no idea what they'll call it, but there will be a reformation-esque paradigm shift in what women wear in the Muslim world.  Apostates will be free to go on living normal lives, they'll dine on ham and bacon, and will separate church and state. 

Because all of its doctrines are bullshit - another thing both religions have in common.
Go away troll.  








Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 01:55:54 PM
I wonder if we have S curved technological progress.  Sure, TVs etc. get a bit better these days, and phones get better, etc.  The auto industry is in a sea change.  But a person from 1970 would adapt pretty quickly to today.  A person from 1920 would likely be astonished if put into 1970.

My Dad was born in 1917 in a house with no electricity.  With electricity, you have a major shift in quality of life, aside from light you can have a well with a pump and heat and hot water and entertainment in principle.  Maybe in 50 years we'll harness fusion, I tend to doubt it.  Space?  Still a problem with gravity.  Cooler electronics?  OK.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2022, 01:57:52 PM
I think the point that kicked this whole thing off was that if the Christians hadn't won the Battle of Tours, we might all be Muslim. 

OAM assumed that this was a "thank God that didn't happen!" point and that it was an attack on Islam. I think he's half right, but missed the bigger point. 

-------------

The half that he's right is that from hindsight bias as people of a Western nation where the Judeo-Christian tradition drove much of the history of our society, we take our current history for granted. We're all selfish and self-centered people, who have been raised a certain way and believe it's the right way. We tell ourselves that we never would have had liberal democracy without those Judeo-Christian values. That may even be true. 

Of course, today's Muslims are selfish and self-centered, and have been raised a certain way and believe it's the right way. And that we're the wrong ones.

Funny how that works, eh?

The simple truth is that if the Christians had lost the Battle of Tours, and we were all Muslims today, we'd all be grateful that the "right" side had won and would be incredibly happy that our Muslim heritage had survived and flourished. Because we'd all have been raised that way. 

-------------

Where I think OAM's criticism was wrong was that I didn't read any "attack" on Islam into the original post. But if the Muslims had won the Battle of Tours, it likely would have drastically altered the entire course of human civilization. Maybe it would have been for the better. Maybe it would have been for the worse. 

But it's clear that the way the world developed over the last ~1300 years would be very different than it was. And society as it exists today would likely be very different than it is. 

How, precisely, would it differ? I can't really say based on the state of Islam and the West in 2021. Because just as the West would have developed very differently [and perhaps not even be something we call "Western Civilization"], Islam would have developed very differently IMHO had they conquered Europe. 

What we know based on previous conquerings is that often a conquering of a different land creates an inescapable blending of the cultures. Much of "Western" civilization is based on the mixing of cultures that occurred as various parts of Europe conquered each other over the centuries. The English language is a messed up amalgamation of diverse roots, some in Latin, some Germanic, and a fair bit that we've picked up elsewhere along the way. European culture in general is a giant mix. Add the Islam of the 700s into that mix and I can't predict what it would look like now. 

But the thing that I can predict is that it would be very different than what it is today. Most of us--the selfish and self-centered people that we are--like what we have today, so by default we have to view that suspiciously. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 02:16:19 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/sDVLOoT.png)
This is Napoleon's tomb in Paris in Les Invalides.  It's impressive to see in person.  The French have really built Napoleon up into a hero, usually, just as the Brits tried to tear him down as a short monomaniacal demon.  He was an impressive individual, building canals and of course the Napoleonic Code, aside from many military victories.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2022, 02:57:32 PM
I wonder if we have S curved technological progress.  Sure, TVs etc. get a bit better these days, and phones get better, etc.  The auto industry is in a sea change.  But a person from 1970 would adapt pretty quickly to today.  A person from 1920 would likely be astonished if put into 1970.

My Dad was born in 1917 in a house with no electricity.  With electricity, you have a major shift in quality of life, aside from light you can have a well with a pump and heat and hot water and entertainment in principle.  Maybe in 50 years we'll harness fusion, I tend to doubt it.  Space?  Still a problem with gravity.  Cooler electronics?  OK.
I kinda disagree with your inflection points though... 

1920->1970 I get, because the television remade everything. It literally reorganized the way people interact with the world. I think, much more than radio, led to the "nationalization" of the USA. All of a sudden the people in NYC, Wichita, and Los Angeles were watching the same TV news anchors and sitcoms as each other. Sure, we put a man on the moon. But that's a parlor trick, culturally, compared to TV. The other aspect was travel--travel in 1920 was likely to be minimal due to cost and due to lack of need. But cars advanced TREMENDOUSLY over those 50 years, became more accessible to more people, and air travel went from nonexistent to a luxury good. 

However, 1970->Today would be incomprehensible. I'd say everything from the 1950s to about 2000 are something that you could wrap your head around. Yes, we started getting cellphones in the 1980s and they spread in the 1990s. Yes, the late 90's were the "dotcom" era, so we technically had the internet. We had Mapquest and Napster. We had search engines that worked, but there was damn near nothing to find. But nobody was walking around staring at their phones all day. Outside of buying dog toys on Pets.com, nobody spent their entire day on the internet. Almost nobody outside of the university or tech space had or used email. We didn't have an entire population carrying around HD video cameras in their pocket everywhere they go. We didn't have social media. 

I feel like someone from 1950 could be dropped into 1999 and would look around and say "oh, you've improved all the things I am familiar with". I think if you dropped someone from 1995 in 2021, they'd be completely lost and not recognize the world around them. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2022, 03:01:47 PM
BTW I would highly recommend reading both Sapiens (https://www.amazon.com/Sapiens-Humankind-Yuval-Noah-Harari-ebook/dp/B00ICN066A/) and Homo Deus (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BBQ33VE). 

They really helps to highlight how we got where we are--and where we might be going...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 31, 2022, 03:22:50 PM
Guns, Germs, and Steel might help a few people become a little less in love with their own way of thinking (my way as the right way, as you so eloquently stated).
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 31, 2022, 03:32:02 PM
I kinda disagree with your inflection points though...

1920->1970 I get, because the television remade everything. It literally reorganized the way people interact with the world. I think, much more than radio, led to the "nationalization" of the USA. All of a sudden the people in NYC, Wichita, and Los Angeles were watching the same TV news anchors and sitcoms as each other. Sure, we put a man on the moon. But that's a parlor trick, culturally, compared to TV. The other aspect was travel--travel in 1920 was likely to be minimal due to cost and due to lack of need. But cars advanced TREMENDOUSLY over those 50 years, became more accessible to more people, and air travel went from nonexistent to a luxury good.

However, 1970->Today would be incomprehensible. I'd say everything from the 1950s to about 2000 are something that you could wrap your head around. Yes, we started getting cellphones in the 1980s and they spread in the 1990s. Yes, the late 90's were the "dotcom" era, so we technically had the internet. We had Mapquest and Napster. We had search engines that worked, but there was damn near nothing to find. But nobody was walking around staring at their phones all day. Outside of buying dog toys on Pets.com, nobody spent their entire day on the internet. Almost nobody outside of the university or tech space had or used email. We didn't have an entire population carrying around HD video cameras in their pocket everywhere they go. We didn't have social media.

I feel like someone from 1950 could be dropped into 1999 and would look around and say "oh, you've improved all the things I am familiar with". I think if you dropped someone from 1995 in 2021, they'd be completely lost and not recognize the world around them.
I've made that point vis-a-vis the internet with my HS graduation.  I graduated in 1993 and Netscape came out that year.  There technically was an internet when I was in high school and I even saw it once at a friends' house but it was for mega-geeks not the masses.  Netscape was the first graphical user interface that brought the internet to the masses.  As such I've observed before that I think my HS experience was more similar to someone two decades earlier than it was to someone half a decade later.  

Seriously, think about it.  Even though there were cell phones and there was an internet in 1993 they were barely more in use than they had been in 1973 so basically my HS experience (graduating in 1993) was pretty similar to someone who graduated in 1973 with the exception of the draft being a major concern for guys who graduated in 1973 but the war was winding down by then so it wasn't nearly as much of a concern and anyway that isn't so much what I am referring to.  I mean socially.  In my early 1990's experience if you wanted to contact one of your friends you called their home phone and asked whoever answered to put them on.  Same as 1973.  In my early 1990's experience if you wanted to ask a girl out you got her number from a friend or from the phone book and called her house and asked whoever answered to put her on.  Same as 1973.  

If you graduated five years later your HS experience included email, MUCH greater use of cell phones, chat rooms, etc.  I remember my sophomore year at tOSU some other sophomores and I were hanging out with some Freshmen and they were in a thing called a "chat room" and we were like WTF is this, lets go do something.  That is only a one year difference and it was completely foreign to us.  

Similar comparison, I started at Ohio State in the fall of 1993.  On my floor of ~60 guys there were a grand combined total of two computers (plus another three word processors, remember those?).  My brother started in the fall of 1999 and had three roommates.  The four of them owned six computers (all four had PC's, two also had laptops).  That is a sea change of 1 PC per ~30 guys to 1.5 computers PER guy.  

I still remember getting the PAPER to look at the new top-25 on Monday after a College Football weekend.  I also still remember that one of the papers I read back then had a feature I liked where they listed the entire top-25 and who they were playing.  I used to make notes in that so I'd know what was going on.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 31, 2022, 03:32:20 PM
Guns, Germs, and Steel might help a few people become a little less in love with their own way of thinking (my way as the right way, as you so eloquently stated).
Hello pot, this is the kettle.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 31, 2022, 03:58:16 PM
Hello pot, this is the kettle. 
I'm merely not convinced there's a god.  And like 6 billion people are guilty of believing in one with zero substantive evidence.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 04:09:24 PM
I was quite disappointed with the book "G,G&S".  I read the nice reviews and picked it up used, and found it rather boring, to me.  I think there were some points in it, but on the whole it seemed "obvious"?  And it missed some significant items in my opinion.  

Emergency-Room Engineering: The 1962 Chevy II | Mac's Motor City Garage (macsmotorcitygarage.com) (https://www.macsmotorcitygarage.com/emergency-room-engineering-the-1962-chevy-ii/?f&fbclid=IwAR3eS2EGcvMMu043yD4GmXHDEM3DU4-5pm7USa3dKAXcCiEmlVPRjKcjP_Q)

Sort of interesting to me as I had a '68 and a '73.  The latter was a decent enough car for its time, the former had the dreaded two speed powerglide transmission and an aftermarket AC.

I was thinking about this today driving my car to Costco and thinking how much better it is in every respect, but that's progress.  As for which 50 year period has been most "shocking", I don't know, of course, I'd probably select 1900 to 1950.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 31, 2022, 04:14:04 PM
I'm merely not convinced there's a god.  And like 6 billion people are guilty of believing in one with zero substantive evidence. 
Talk about missing the point:
Guns, Germs, and Steel might help a few people become a little less in love with their own way of thinking (my way as the right way, as you so eloquently stated).
Since the existence of a higher power is neither provable nor falsifiable it shouldn't surprise you that people on the other side of that divide view you the same way that you view them.  

The point, and the difference within this thread (and in general with your postings here) is that YOU are the one who continually frames your points as insults and, see upthread, even when someone (me) goes out of their way to meet you on YOUR terms by using an explicitly anti-religious source, you still answer with insults and evasions.  

See, from this post:
Because it's just incredulous to you, right? 

If so, then you're just putting your head in the sand when it comes to the radical changes in Christianity in the past 500 years.  Sorry friend, but this shit isn't static, it's fluid.  And it flows more socially liberal.  Every day, there are fewer gaps for god to hide in as our knowledge grows. 

I have no idea what they'll call it, but there will be a reformation-esque paradigm shift in what women wear in the Muslim world.  Apostates will be free to go on living normal lives, they'll dine on ham and bacon, and will separate church and state. 

Because all of its doctrines are bullshit - another thing both religions have in common.
Insults to anyone who disagrees with you.  This was directed at me and accused me of:

I was going to go back further but I've already more than proved my point with just one of your posts and yet you have the unmitigated audacity to implicitly accuse all who disagree with you of being "in love with their own way of thinking" which is EXACTLY what you are.  

Honestly Fro, I'm not the average poster who disagrees with you.  I don't toss out insults lightly.  I take your points and address them on their own merits.  An example is my choosing to use an explicitly anti-religious atheist as my source to counter your Christianity = Islam argument.  It would be different if I had tossed out some pro-Christian source as a response but I didn't, don't treat me like I did.  I took on your point on YOUR terms and you tossed out insults.  

I've made this point before but I'm going to make it again because it fits so well here.  Every time you and I are on the same side in a debate here I wish you would stop posting because your posts are so off-putting that they tend to push people away from our view.  Every time you and I are on the opposite side in a debate here I welcome your posts for the same reason.  

I sometimes wonder if you are actually the atheist leftist that you appear or if you are a truly ingenious Christian right winger who is operating as a parody of an atheist leftist.  Your posts are so off-putting that they are infinitely more effective if it is actually the latter.  




Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 04:21:59 PM
I do loathe Eastern Michigan.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 31, 2022, 04:45:18 PM
I was thinking about this today driving my car to Costco and thinking how much better it is in every respect, but that's progress.  As for which 50 year period has been most "shocking", I don't know, of course, I'd probably select 1900 to 1950. 
Getting back to weird history, this is one reason that WWI fascinates me much more than WWII.  

There was, of course, incredible technological innovation during WWII but I think the incredible technological innovation during WWI was more impressive.  

When WWI started aircraft were too few to have any significant impact and the few that did exist were basically bedsheets draped over sticks, they looked a lot like the Wright Flier.  At the end of WWI aircraft were a major part of warfare and the most modern planes looked a lot like modern planes today, 100+ years later.  

At the beginning of WWI tactics and strategies of warfare were not much different from what they had been when Napoleon roamed European battlefields 100 years earlier, at the end tactics and strategies were not much different than they are today, 100 years later.  

A soldier from Napoleon's era would have understood pretty much everything he saw on the battlefield in 1914.  The major exception is aircraft but as I stated they were so few in number as to not be terribly relevant.  Meanwhile, a soldier from 1918 would be familiar with most everything on a modern battlefield.  The tanks, aircraft, and other weapons of today are obviously better but there isn't much that is altogether new.  

The other reasons that WWI fascinates me are the changes relative to what had existed before and the fact that there are easily plausible scenarios in which the other side wins.

Changes:
WWII saw the end of the Nazi's in Germany and the Fascists in Italy but they had only been in power for about 12 and about 20 years respectively.  That is nothing compared to WWI seeing the end of the Hapsburgs in Austria-Hungary, the Romanovs in Russia, and the Hohenzollerns in Germany.  While the Kaisers had only ruled Germany at large four about 50 years at least part of the possessions of those three families had been under their rule for centuries.  

Plausible for the other side to win:
When WWI began there were three factions in America.  There were a significant number of people, mostly first and second generation immigrants from the Central Powers and Irish who wanted the US to join the Central Powers.  There were people who wanted the US to join the Allies, and the majority wanted the US to stay neutral.  If Germany had been better at diplomacy (which is an extremely low bar) it is easy to imagine the US remaining neutral and not impossible to imagine the US joining the Central Powers.  Unlike the WWII, Russia did collapse in WWI and the Germans were supremely close to knocking out the French in 1914 and again in their Spring Offensive in 1918.  There are a multitude of plausible scenarios in which the Central Powers achieve at least a partial victory.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 05:00:39 PM
I've pondered before how history might have been better had the Germans won WW One.  They would have taken another slice of France probably and had dominance over central Europe no doubt.  The Kaiser would have stayed in power.  No Hitler.  The US could have stayed out of both.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 31, 2022, 05:05:36 PM
I've pondered before how history might have been better had the Germans won WW One.  They would have taken another slice of France probably and had dominance over central Europe no doubt.  The Kaiser would have stayed in power.  No Hitler.  The US could have stayed out of both.
On the flip side it is possible that there would have been a Hitler equivalent in France blaming the French Jews (or somesuch) for France's loss in WWI and invading the rest of Europe seeking revenge for all that was lost in WWI and the Franco-Prussian War.  Who knows.  

It would certainly have been a lot different and it was VERY close to happening.  If the Russian invasion of East Prussia hadn't caused the Germans to panic and pull an entire army out of the invasion of France the Germans would most likely have been victorious in France in 1914.  They did that in 1940, of course, but after that happened in 1940 the Soviet Union didn't collapse.  Russia DID collapse after 1914 so that would have been a much different situation for the Kaiser than it was for Hitler.  Would the British have agreed to terms?  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 05:09:18 PM
That is an interesting thought, a French "Hitler" or equivalent.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 31, 2022, 05:17:30 PM
I've pondered before how history might have been better had the Germans won WW One.  They would have taken another slice of France probably and had dominance over central Europe no doubt.  The Kaiser would have stayed in power.  No Hitler.  The US could have stayed out of both.
Then the US would not have ramped up factory production in the 40s, might not have exited the Depression, would not have felt it necessary to develop the A-bomb, therefore would not have become a nuclear superpower and would have lost considerable influence in the world over the ensuing decades.  Would not really have engaged in the Cold War with Russia so likely would not have funneled money into the Space Race and so trillions of dollars worth of innovation would likely never have occurred.

Basically, become a vassal state to China at this point in history.

Far reaching consequences indeed. :)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 31, 2022, 05:55:51 PM
I like the idea of the U.S. being a nondescript country.  Not the world's police, not a threat to anyone, just a country chugging along.  Everything would seem a little less important/stressful.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on January 31, 2022, 06:02:33 PM
I work with a couple of people so backwards that not only had they never heard of Groundhog Day, they weren't even aware that such an animal exists. Then when I tried to explain the whole thing, their only question had the do with whether or not you can eat them.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 31, 2022, 06:40:06 PM
Sure you can.

Tastes like chicken.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2022, 06:41:49 PM
I once interviewed a PhD chemist for an opening who had never heard of black holes.  While it was not part of the job need, I didn't hire him.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 06:52:11 PM
I like the idea of the U.S. being a nondescript country.  Not the world's police, not a threat to anyone, just a country chugging along.  Everything would seem a little less important/stressful.
one can only wish. this would be nice.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on January 31, 2022, 06:56:36 PM
I like the idea of the U.S. being a nondescript country.  Not the world's police, not a threat to anyone, just a country chugging along.  Everything would seem a little less important/stressful.
yep and while we are at it lets stop giving under developed countries billions 

we should keep it for ourselves
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2022, 07:12:05 PM
yep and while we are at it lets stop giving under developed countries billions

we should keep it for ourselves
There's a degree to which I agree with this...

...but at the same time China is aggressively investing in Africa and a lot of other places in the world, and they're doing so with the clear knowledge that this will allow them to exert influence on those nations. Influence that may end up freezing us out of or giving them preferential access to natural resources that we need. 

So let's not act as if there's no benefit to helping underdeveloped nations, nor no cost to not doing so if others choose to...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Mdot21 on January 31, 2022, 07:26:32 PM
There's a degree to which I agree with this...

...but at the same time China is aggressively investing in Africa and a lot of other places in the world, and they're doing so with the clear knowledge that this will allow them to exert influence on those nations. Influence that may end up freezing us out of or giving them preferential access to natural resources that we need.

So let's not act as if there's no benefit to helping underdeveloped nations, nor no cost to not doing so if others choose to...
I'm all for helping underdeveloped nations. I disagree with longhorn there. I'd agree with him if he said we should stop giving billions of dollars in aid to VERY rich countries like for example...Israel! 

And I'd also argue that we should basically disband NATO and let rich European countries pay for their own defense. If they aren't that worried about their defense, why should we? 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 01, 2022, 02:30:00 AM
I'm not sure lh320 is actually advocating that position.  Rather, I think he's just pointing out that if the USA were just an average ordinary nation "just chugging along," then there'd be less capability to deliver aid to foreign countries and we'd be best off just keeping whatever limited resources we'd have in that scenario, to ourselves. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2022, 05:46:35 AM
I do loathe Eastern Michigan.
Ya whoor
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2022, 05:59:02 AM
Sure you can.

Tastes like chicken.
According to some hunting buddies it tasted like wool sox from the Ice Shanty with the consistency of boot leather that had rancid fat rendered over it.I didn't ask how they knew what those other things tasted like
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 06:37:18 AM
50 Year Ago America’s Engines Lost Up to 130 HP Overnight. Here’s How It Happened | Carscoops (https://www.carscoops.com/2022/01/50-year-ago-americas-engines-lost-up-to-130-hp-overnight-heres-how-it-happened/#Echobox=1643606001)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2022, 06:43:35 AM
I've pondered before how history might have been better had the Germans won WW One.  They would have taken another slice of France probably and had dominance over central Europe no doubt.  The Kaiser would have stayed in power.  No Hitler.  The US could have stayed out of both.
People always seem to leave the British Crown off of the hook,prolly because we speak English and German sounds grating .What was it the one Holy Roman Emporer said "I speak Latin to God,Italian to men,French to women and German to my horse." According to the history I've been told is the Royal Navy in WWI had blockaded the Northern German ports and cut the trans atlantic telegraph line to the USA.Hampering communication efforts between the two countries as the US was fed the British version of everything.Between being starved for food and supplies and the reparations from the treaty of Versailles had horrendous consequences for the Central powers and Germany in particular.It greased the skids for the economic collapse that followed leading to civil unrest.The countries children born after 1919 were famished and indeed the coming years grew up much smaller than previous generations.These are the kids that grew up to be soldiers in WWII

 I don't know much about WWI or what led to it outside of the ArchDuke Ferdinand getting whacked in the Balkans.But it was explained to me by a history teacher years ago that WWII sprung fom WWI which sprang from centuries of European Kingdoms colliding, reforming and colliding again and so on and so forth.So not sure one side was all right or all wrong but one was definitely left to foot the butchers bill .So when the chattering ebola chimp Adolph weaseled past the Proletariat telling the digruntled things they wanted to hear as the economy started picking up they were all ears.They couldn't know at the time little by little he was leading them to Dante's Inferno
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2022, 06:48:21 AM
I once interviewed a PhD chemist for an opening who had never heard of black holes.  While it was not part of the job need, I didn't hire him.
Could have put them in accounting
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 06:50:14 AM
The Guns of August is a very readable book about the origins of WW One.  Part of the issue, a large part, were the security agreements between various nations that collided.  Britain for example had guaranteed Belgium, and the German Schlieffen plan involved a wheel attack through Belgium into the French proper.  Russia had guaranteed Serbia, Austria wanted to punish Serbia.  Germany was on the side of Austria.  France was on the side of Russia.  Dominoes.  

A weird thing is that the King of England, the Kaiser, and the Tsar, had the same grandmother, they were first cousins.  

The Terms Kaiser and Tsar come from Caesar, which in latin is pronounced with a hard C, Kaiser.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 06:51:38 AM
Could have put them in accounting
I wasn't hiring accountants.  Ha,  the guy was from Ohio State as I recall.

The top grads went to drug companies or academia in general, they didn't interview, they had a pipeline.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2022, 07:14:41 AM
A weird thing is that the King of England, the Kaiser, and the Tsar, had the same grandmother, they were first cousins.
😎 never knew that Hatfields/McCoys.Speaking of McCoy got a book on DB Cooper and I'm convinced this was the guy.
DB Cooper,The Real McCoy only a few pages in but picked it up after watching quite a few YT videos
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2022, 07:16:39 AM
The top grads went to drug companies 
Of course their parents were prolly hippies
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 07:45:53 AM
I went up to Ohio State for nine years to interview for the company and write reports.  It was "interesting".  They had a famous professor named Leo Paquette who had a group of 39 people at one point, that is way too many, and he had to use post docs to superview the grad students.  Predictably, they got into some sort of a mess.

I quit once the company started with quotas.  The students were 95% white males and Asian males and we were told we had to hire more diversity folks.  There were two black PhDs NATIONALLY that year and the goal was to hire both, sight unseen.  I think they did hire one.  I went back under my rock.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 01, 2022, 08:20:05 AM
Could have put them in accounting
Sounds like he'd make an excellent Supreme Court Justice.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 01, 2022, 08:26:41 AM
According to some hunting buddies it tasted like wool sox from the Ice Shanty with the consistency of boot leather that had rancid fat rendered over it.I didn't ask how they knew what those other things tasted like
I'll admit I've never tasted groundhog, I was just goofing around.  I've also never tasted wool socks or boot leather or rancid fat (that I know of).
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 08:41:44 AM
I have tasted rattlesnake, it was kind of greasy, but it was canned.  I had escargot the other night and was musing about how it's all about the butter.  I was dipping bread pieces into said butter, just give me the butter and some good bread and I'm happy.  They have a salmon with artichokes in a kind of red sauce that I can't pass up.

DOS DE SAUMON AUX ARTICHAUTS
$29.00
Roasted salmon fillet, artichokes, welted arugula, marinated tomatoes, Niçoise olives, fingerling potatoes, red bell pepper sauce


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2022, 09:01:07 AM
I'll admit I've never tasted groundhog, I was just goofing around.  I've also never tasted wool socks or boot leather or rancid fat (that I know of).
Such a sheltered life
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 09:11:42 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/XV0dTom.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 10:06:25 AM
I'm not sure lh320 is actually advocating that position.  Rather, I think he's just pointing out that if the USA were just an average ordinary nation "just chugging along," then there'd be less capability to deliver aid to foreign countries and we'd be best off just keeping whatever limited resources we'd have in that scenario, to ourselves.
Yeah, and there'd also be a lot less wars, killings, & bombings, meddling in foreign countries affairs, toppling of foreign governments, propping up dictators, and in general less horrific shit.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 01, 2022, 10:56:41 AM
Then the US would not have ramped up factory production in the 40s, might not have exited the Depression, would not have felt it necessary to develop the A-bomb, therefore would not have become a nuclear superpower and would have lost considerable influence in the world over the ensuing decades.  Would not really have engaged in the Cold War with Russia so likely would not have funneled money into the Space Race and so trillions of dollars worth of innovation would likely never have occurred.

Basically, become a vassal state to China at this point in history.

Far reaching consequences indeed. :)
A lot like China as their economy expands, military power is fundamentally a function of economic power and the US was already the world's largest economy even before WWI.  Just by quick google, it appears that the US became the world's largest economy in 1886.  Now I realize that economists aren't as precise as they think so I wouldn't argue one way or the other if you said it was 1891 or 1881 but I'm near certain that it happened sometime between say 1876 and 1896 so by the time WWI broke out the US had already been in that position for 20-40 years.  Even without the years of trench warfare (assuming a quick German victory over France in 1914) the war still took some toll on the economies of the warring powers.  

Per wiki, GDP in 1990 International Dollars (I have no idea what that means but the denominator isn't really important, I'm more concerned with the relative size):

Eastern Europe is listed as a conglomerate with $135 B so it is probably fair to guess that the Austro-Hungarian Empire was 8th, somewhere between France and Italy.  

China, India, and to a lesser extent Russia weren't nearly as wealthy as this makes them appear.  They were very populous so even with a very low per-capita GDP they still had an impressive looking total GDP but that didn't mean that they could actually afford to build and maintain substantial modern militaries to match Germany and the UK.  

Germany lost so much territory after WWII that there were actually MORE Germans living in post-war Germany in 1945 than there had been living in that same geographic area in 1939.  Germany lost a LOT of territory by losing two world wars in the twentieth Century which tends to happen when you invade people and lose.  

A related and interesting question is what would have happened to Austria-Hungary.  Here is a linguistic map of Austrio-Hungarian territory circa 1910 (https://brilliantmaps.com/united-states-austria/).  There are areas with majority:

Austria-Hungary being on the winning side in WWI and the Hapsburg monarchy continuing beyond 1918 would not have stopped a substantial number of these people from wanting to join or form ethnic nation states with their co-ethnics in Germany, Serbia, Italy, the Ukraine, Poland, etc.  That pressure would have continued to exist and would undoubtedly have eventually led to more conflicts.  

The Germans wouldn't have had foreign ethnic majorities in the Sudetenland and parts of Poland to push them towards war but the Poles would have had that in Germany and a slew of ethnicities would have had that in Austria-Hungary.  It is impossible to predict when or how that would have blown up but I can predict with absolute certainty that it would have blown up.  


Germany, with everything they would likely have gained from victory in WWI would have consolidated their position as the dominant power in Europe and probably had a sufficiently large economy and industrial base to out-produce the UK such that they would have attained at least parity with the Royal Navy sometime in the 1920's or so.  That would have left the UK in quite a precarious position because they are absolutely dependent on imports to survive (they weren't food sufficient even then) and if Germany had a surface Navy large enough to threaten that, the UK would have been practically unable to stand up to anything the Germans wanted.  They'd have been forced to rely on alliances but the French economy isn't all that big, the Russian/Soviet economy isn't all that wealthy, and in this scenario it is safe to assume that the US is pretty strongly isolationist.  

For their part, the Germans would have bordered an explicitly hostile Communist regime to their East so they'd have, at a minimum, felt it necessary to maintain a military strong enough to take on the USSR.  

Still, the US would have had an economy roughly twice the size of the next tier (China, Germany, USSR, UK).  That gives the US an enormous amount of leverage whenever they decide they want to use it.  

If you study British History they had a longstanding internal debate as to whether their foreign policy should be:

In short, Europe after a Central Powers victory in WWI would have had all kinds of potential flash-points to start up the next war.  Also, if WWI hadn't been so awful (a quick German victory in France in 1914 would have resulted in vastly less casualties for both sides) then they wouldn't have been so war-averse in the decades after so the next war would probably have come sooner rather than in 1939.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 01, 2022, 10:58:56 AM
Yeah, and there'd also be a lot less wars, killings, & bombings, meddling in foreign countries affairs, toppling of foreign governments, propping up dictators, and in general less horrific shit.
I don't believe that for a second.  It would just be different countries doing it.

As you are fond of saying, power corrupts.  USA with less power, results in someone else with more power, and therefore more corruption coming from that "someone else."

People are as predictable as the sun setting in the West, the tides, or OAM turning an innocuous discussion into something hateful and anti-religious.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2022, 11:04:00 AM
HATER,not that there's anything wrong with that
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 11:05:08 AM
Before WW 2, the US was largely isolationist.  The notion after WW 2 was that we couldn't be any longer, we needed to step in and "help" the rest of the world remain peaceful etc.  Some of that was good, the Marshall Plan.  Then there was the Commie fear, they were taking over the world, so the US reacted to that, obviously.  That led to a number of bad things.  Then the USSR fell and it seemed world peace was upon us, and then it wasn't.

I don't think we will ever step back, though in many ways it makes sense to me as well.  A lot of our military spending is to be able to project power, a lot of power, in a way no other country can match at all.  That means aircraft carriers and a large Navy, plus transports, and a large air force, etc.  The air wing of a carrier costs more than said carrier.  My idea would be to step back and take a long look at where our security needs actually are and then match the military to them, it might well be cyberwar is where we're deficient.  But this isn't going to happen of course.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 01, 2022, 11:10:48 AM
People always seem to leave the British Crown off of the hook,prolly because we speak English and German sounds grating .What was it the one Holy Roman Emporer said "I speak Latin to God,Italian to men,French to women and German to my horse." According to the history I've been told is the Royal Navy in WWI had blockaded the Northern German ports and cut the trans atlantic telegraph line to the USA.Hampering communication efforts between the two countries as the US was fed the British version of everything.Between being starved for food and supplies and the reparations from the treaty of Versailles had horrendous consequences for the Central powers and Germany in particular.It greased the skids for the economic collapse that followed leading to civil unrest.The countries children born after 1919 were famished and indeed the coming years grew up much smaller than previous generations.These are the kids that grew up to be soldiers in WWII
This is an interesting take and mostly correct.  Literally the first British act of war in WWI was to cut the transatlantic telegraph cable that didn't run through Britain thus forcing all messages from Europe to run through them.  That allowed them to intercept and decode all German diplomatic cables which ultimately led to their intercepting and publicizing the Zimmerman Telegram.  

According to the rules of war then in effect the British blockade in the manner that it was conducted was theoretically "illegal".  The Germans made the argument that their use of submarines without warning (also "illegal") was a response to the "illegal" blockade.  If the Germans were better at diplomacy they might have been able to present this point in a way that would have been more convincing in the United States and kept the US out of the war.  That absolutely would have led to the German side winning WWI.  

The thing is that there was a lot of support for this position in the US.  There were a LOT of first and second generation Germans, Austrians, etc who still felt sympathy toward their cousins.  Additionally, there were a LOT of first and second generation Irish with NO love for the British.  Outside of Otto von Bismarck, diplomacy just isn't a German strength.  Further, there were a lot of Americans who just wanted to make as much money as possible by selling everything we could make to both sides.  In the event, it turned out that the British and their allies basically bought everything we could make so we didn't really need the Germans and their allies as customers and the British are REALLY good at diplomacy so they painted the submarine as a "illegal" terror weapon murdering noncombatants while downplaying their blockade as strictly military in nature.  

Another thing about the navies in both wars is how completely ridiculously wasteful German production of major Capital Ships was.  The Germans had the world's second largest navy at the outset of WWI but it was so substantially smaller than the British that they had no real chance and only ventured out of port to try to take on elements of the British fleet a couple times.  One of these was Jutland of course which was a tactical German victory (their ships were very good and they sunk a lot more than they lost) but a strategic British victory (because they had more to lose).  Similarly the German Capital ships in WWII were also very good (Bismark sunk Hood) but so insanely outnumbered as to be basically useless (the British sent something like a dozen BB's and a bunch of CV's and other ships out to get Bismark and sunk it).  If the Germans had used the massive amount of resources that it took to build those capital ships to build submarines instead they probably would have had enough submarines to starve the British into submission.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 01, 2022, 11:12:05 AM
The Guns of August is a very readable book about the origins of WW One.  Part of the issue, a large part, were the security agreements between various nations that collided.  Britain for example had guaranteed Belgium, and the German Schlieffen plan involved a wheel attack through Belgium into the French proper.  Russia had guaranteed Serbia, Austria wanted to punish Serbia.  Germany was on the side of Austria.  France was on the side of Russia.  Dominoes. 

A weird thing is that the King of England, the Kaiser, and the Tsar, had the same grandmother, they were first cousins. 

The Terms Kaiser and Tsar come from Caesar, which in latin is pronounced with a hard C, Kaiser.
One of my all-time favorite books.  As @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) stated, it is very readable.  Also, it doesn't concern itself much with the military part of things.  Rather, the book is mostly about all the diplomatic efforts to avoid the war.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 01, 2022, 11:12:43 AM
😎 never knew that Hatfields/McCoys.Speaking of McCoy got a book on DB Cooper and I'm convinced this was the guy.
DB Cooper,The Real McCoy only a few pages in but picked it up after watching quite a few YT videos
That is a fascinating story isn't it.  Nobody knows if he survived the jump or not but if he did that is outright amazing.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 11:19:45 AM
The German navy in WW 2 was in part finger in the eye and in part a PR campaign.  Hitler liked BIG stuff, and he liked the prestige of BIG ships.  They did build "surface raiders", basically battlecruisers intended to intercept British shipping, and they were somewhat effective early.  But, yes, the U boats were far more tactically effective and efficient.  Their one aircraft carrier was a silly expense (never finished).

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2022, 11:23:31 AM
That is a fascinating story isn't it.  Nobody knows if he survived the jump or not but if he did that is outright amazing. 
One retired Agent thinks he did.He was on Expedition Unknown about 2 yrs back and he thinks DB jumped in the desert outside of Reno.There were letters sent to the Newspapers at the time - he got out of Dodge 1st.There is a lot of brush and the desert would have provided a much softer landing with lights seen for miles to make a safe get away.Made a very plausible case.Another guy was an airline emplyee named kenny Christiansen
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 01, 2022, 11:28:46 AM
I don't know much about WWI or what led to it outside of the ArchDuke Ferdinand getting whacked in the Balkans.But it was explained to me by a history teacher years ago that WWII sprung fom WWI which sprang from centuries of European Kingdoms colliding, reforming and colliding again and so on and so forth.So not sure one side was all right or all wrong but one was definitely left to foot the butchers bill .So when the chattering ebola chimp Adolph weaseled past the Proletariat telling the digruntled things they wanted to hear as the economy started picking up they were all ears.They couldn't know at the time little by little he was leading them to Dante's Inferno
WWII most definitely sprung from WWI.  The highly punitive Treat of Versailles provided Hitler with an enemy that nearly all Germans hated.  Hitler didn't make up the Sudetenland, for example.  Rather, it was an ethnically German-majority area of the old Austro-Hungarian Empire that had been given to the Czechs at the end of WWI.  The German majority that lived there wanted to be aligned with their co-ethnics in either Austria or Germany.  This isn't to say that Hitler was right, just that the victorious allies in WWI gave him a LOT of ammunition.  

Similarly, at the end of WWI when the Hapsburg Empire collapsed all of the nationalities that made it up mostly got their own nation-states or got attached to pre-existing neighboring nation-states.  Interestingly, the Germans in Austria proper, the Sudetenland, and a few other majority-German areas initially created "The Republic of German Austria" with the express intention of merging with their co-ethnics in Germany.  The victorious allies vetoed the merger, chopped the Sudetenland out of their territory, and made them drop the "German" from the name.  Less than 20 years later Hitler's Anschluss accomplished the merger and his Munich Agreement with the British and French got the Sudetenland.  

I've read about strongly anti-Nazi Germans for whom this caused a lot of problems.  They hated the Nazi's but nearly all of them wanted the merger with Austria, to get the Sudetenland, to remilitarize the Ruhr, etc.  Those things made Hitler and the Nazi's very popular in Germany which helped to limit the possibility of any kind of coup to take them out.  

Yes, he was leading them into Dante's Inferno but it certainly didn't seem like it in 1938 and early 1939 when the rest of the world was in an Economic Depression and Germany had a fast-growing economy and massive territorial gains reversing many of the losses of WWI.  Very few people could look deeper and see that their economy was a house of cards built on massive unsustainable military spending and that their enemies were starting to catch up militarily and prepare for a fight in which Germany would be hopelessly outnumbered.  

All the way until the end of 1942 the Nazi regime's decade in power seemed to have been great for Germany and even in 1943 only people who had a really good understanding of world events could see the coming catastrophe.  By 1944 it was far to late to do anything about it.  Even if the July 20 plot had succeeded the Allies had already hardened their stance and it is doubtful whether anything less than Unconditional Surrender would have been acceptable.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 11:31:54 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/SoxEkzu.png)

The War with Germany, A Statistical Summary, Chapters 8-10, Appendix, Index. (gwpda.org) (http://www.gwpda.org/docs/statistics/stats8on.htm)

A very sobering sight in every French town or village is a marker with the names of the dead on it.  They lost massively in this war.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 01, 2022, 11:38:27 AM
One retired Agent thinks he did.He was on Expedition Unknown about 2 yrs back and he thinks DB jumped in the desert outside of Reno.There were letters sent to the Newspapers at the time - he got out of Dodge 1st.There is a lot of brush and the desert would have provided a much softer landing with lights seen for miles to make a safe get away.Made a very plausible case.Another guy was an airline emplyee named kenny Christiansen
That is something I've never heard.  I always read that he jumped somewhere over the PAC NW and most people theorize that he died either in the jump, on landing, or of exposure on the ground.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 11:39:13 AM
𝗢𝗻 𝘁𝗵𝗶𝘀 𝗱𝗮𝘆 𝗶𝗻 1944, 𝗝𝗮𝗰𝗸𝗶𝗲 𝗥𝗼𝗯𝗶𝗻𝘀𝗼𝗻, 𝗮 𝗨.𝗦. 𝗔𝗿𝗺𝘆 𝘀𝗼𝗹𝗱𝗶𝗲𝗿 𝘄𝗵𝗼 𝘄𝗼𝘂𝗹𝗱 𝗴𝗼 𝗼𝗻 𝘁𝗼 𝗯𝗿𝗲𝗮𝗸 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗰𝗼𝗹𝗼𝗿 𝗯𝗮𝗿𝗿𝗶𝗲𝗿 𝗶𝗻 𝗠𝗮𝗷𝗼𝗿 𝗟𝗲𝗮𝗴𝘂𝗲 𝗕𝗮𝘀𝗲𝗯𝗮𝗹𝗹, 𝗿𝗲𝗳𝘂𝘀𝗲𝗱 𝘁𝗼 𝗺𝗼𝘃𝗲 𝘁𝗼 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗯𝗮𝗰𝗸 𝗼𝗳 𝗮𝗻 𝗔𝗿𝗺𝘆 𝗯𝘂𝘀, 𝗹𝗲𝗮𝗱𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝘁𝗼 𝗵𝗶𝘀 𝗯𝗲𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗰𝗼𝘂𝗿𝘁-𝗺𝗮𝗿𝘁𝗶𝗮𝗹𝗲𝗱.
In 1942, Robinson was drafted and assigned to a segregated Army cavalry unit in Fort Riley, Kansas. Having the requisite qualifications, Robinson and several other black soldiers applied for admission to an Officer Candidate School (OCS) then located at Fort Riley. Although the Army's initial July 1941 guidelines for OCS had been drafted as race neutral, few black applicants were admitted into OCS until after subsequent directives by Army leadership. As a result, the applications of Robinson and his colleagues were delayed for several months. After protests by heavyweight boxing champion Joe Louis (then stationed at Fort Riley) and the help of Truman Gibson (then an assistant civilian aide to the Secretary of War), the men were accepted into OCS. The experience led to a personal friendship between Robinson and Louis. Upon finishing OCS, Robinson was commissioned as a second lieutenant in January 1943.
After receiving his commission, Robinson was reassigned to Fort Hood, Texas, where he joined the 761st "Black Panthers" Tank Battalion. While awaiting results of hospital tests on the ankle he had injured in junior college, Robinson boarded an Army bus with a fellow officer's wife; although the Army had commissioned its own unsegregated bus line, the bus driver ordered Robinson to move to the back of the bus. Robinson refused. The driver backed down, but after reaching the end of the line, summoned the military police, who took Robinson into custody. When Robinson later confronted the investigating duty officer about racist questioning by the officer and his assistant, the officer recommended Robinson be court-martialed. After Robinson's commander in the 761st, Paul L. Bates, refused to authorize the legal action, Robinson was summarily transferred to the 758th Battalion—where the commander quickly consented to charge Robinson with multiple offenses, including, among other charges, public drunkenness, even though Robinson did not drink.
By the time of the court-martial in August 1944, the charges against Robinson had been reduced to two counts of insubordination during questioning. Robinson was acquitted by an all-white panel of nine officers. The experiences Robinson was subjected to during the court proceedings would be remembered when he later joined MLB and was subjected to racist attacks. Although his former unit, the 761st Tank Battalion, became the first black tank unit to see combat in World War II, Robinson's court-martial proceedings prohibited him from being deployed overseas; thus, he never saw combat action.
After his acquittal, he was transferred to Camp Breckinridge, Kentucky, where he served as a coach for army athletics until receiving an honorable discharge in November 1944. While there, Robinson met a former player for the Kansas City Monarchs of the Negro American League, who encouraged Robinson to write the Monarchs and ask for a tryout. Robinson took the former player's advice and wrote to Monarchs' co-owner Thomas Baird.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 11:42:07 AM
I don't believe that for a second. It would just be different countries doing it.

As you are fond of saying, power corrupts.  USA with less power, results in someone else with more power, and therefore more corruption coming from that "someone else."

People are as predictable as the sun setting in the West, the tides, or OAM turning an innocuous discussion into something hateful and anti-religious.
you're right lol. but at least it wouldn't be our country doing it.

it was the British raping and pillaging and ruling the world before us, someone before them, and the Romans way way before them all. will probably be the Chinese after us.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 01, 2022, 11:43:56 AM
you're right lol. but at least it wouldn't be our country doing it.

it was the British raping and pillaging and ruling the world before us, someone before them, and the Romans way way before them all. will probably be the Chinese after us.
It's already the Chinese.  And they're just as willing to do it to their own people, as they are to anyone else.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Riffraft on February 01, 2022, 11:58:30 AM
I've read 20 million, it's still a tiny number.  There are a lot of Jews who are atheists/agnostics, in my experience, like Einstein for example (who did believe in a Creator).  They are not adherents to the religion itself but identify with the culture and heritage.  Of my Jewish acquaintances, NONE of them were religious.  One even went to a Jewish Temple for agnostics, I had never heard of such a thing.  It was about heritage. 

I suppose I am frightened of their space laser though.
I worked on a PhD at Hebrew Union College (a reformed Judaism seminary) back in the early 90s and the debate going on at the time was whether to admit Beth Adam (I believe that was the synagogue) which was an openly Agnostic synagogue.  I had a long discussion with one of my professors how they could argue to admit an openly agnostic synagogue and accept them as Jewish, but outright rejected several synagogues and say they are not Jewish that accepted Jesus as the Messiah.  So you could be a "religious" Jew and not believe in God, but you couldn't be one who believed that Jesus was the Messiah. Seemed contradictory to me, but made for a good debate. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 12:01:56 PM
It's already the Chinese.  And they're just as willing to do it to their own people, as they are to anyone else.
yeah, which is kind of crazy. there are so many of them, if they all decided to revolt - would be impossible for the government to control the situation. surprised that it hasn't happened yet. chinese people seem to love being virtual slaves to the state.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2022, 12:05:23 PM
That is something I've never heard.  I always read that he jumped somewhere over the PAC NW and most people theorize that he died either in the jump, on landing, or of exposure on the ground. 
Their seems to be threads of believability in many suspects one of them made it into a roadside bar and asked some trucker for a ride and directions and he complied,And the trucker later picked the suspect out of a line up,problem was suspect wasn't recognized by any of the stewardesses,This McCoy guy they said Maybe.Also they think since the guy may have served in Nam he was familiar with jumping from the aft staircases of the 727s.He may have fained the 1st jump to set off the crew thinking he bailed between Portland and Seattle.Only to gently roll out an hour later.Because those stairs were bouncing all the way to Nevada - how would the crew really know
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2022, 12:08:09 PM
yeah, which is kind of crazy. there are so many of them, if they all decided to revolt - would be impossible for the government to control the situation. surprised that it hasn't happened yet. chinese people seem to love being virtual slaves to the state.
Who knows maybe the virus was released to stem just a revolt.The people aren't stupid,they were the ones noticing a lot of doctors/scientists were dropping off the map and smuggling info/video out
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 12:19:05 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/yEwP8OS.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 01, 2022, 12:45:21 PM
you're right lol. but at least it wouldn't be our country doing it.

it was the British raping and pillaging and ruling the world before us, someone before them, and the Romans way way before them all. will probably be the Chinese after us.
you sometimes sound like the hippies I used to hear on campus back in the 60s

you would fit right in

hay man ya got any chips man

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 01, 2022, 12:51:20 PM
Their seems to be threads of believability in many suspects one of them made it into a roadside bar and asked some trucker for a ride and directions and he complied,And the trucker later picked the suspect out of a line up,problem was suspect wasn't recognized by any of the stewardesses,This McCoy guy they said Maybe.Also they think since the guy may have served in Nam he was familiar with jumping from the aft staircases of the 727s.He may have fained the 1st jump to set off the crew thinking he bailed between Portland and Seattle.Only to gently roll out an hour later.Because those stairs were bouncing all the way to Nevada - how would the crew really know
That is interesting.  I saw a show where they mentioned that truck driver and the guy he picked up who he thinks was DB Cooper but I never heard the theory that he fooled everybody into believing he jumped out there then waited.  How do they explain the money that kid found up in the NW, a plant?  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 01:34:29 PM
you sometimes sound like the hippies I used to hear on campus back in the 60s

you would fit right in

hay man ya got any chips man
yeah, well I don't know what to say to that, I'm the furthest thing from a hippy. 

if you're cool with the US doing f**ked up horrific shit all-around the world, well that's like on you man. :)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 01, 2022, 01:46:45 PM
yeah, well I don't know what to say to that, I'm the furthest thing from a hippy.

if you're cool with the US doing f**ked up horrific shit all-around the world, well that's like on you man. :)
Im never good with any bad thing a country does.  But if you could get a time machine and go back to that time era you would be amazed at how much you have in common with those guys.  I dont doubt your honestly saying what you believe but the message youre bringing is far from original.  Its just my age revealing itself.  BTW does this country do anything thats good or are we bad to the core.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 01:55:50 PM
Im never good with any bad thing a country does.  But if you could get a time machine and go back to that time era you would be amazed at how much you have in common with those guys.  I dont doubt your honestly saying what you believe but the message youre bringing is far from original.  Its just my age revealing itself.  BTW does this country do anything thats good or are we bad to the core.
of course we do great stuff. we send humanitarian aid all-around the world, we develop and innovate in the sciences, produce new technology and medical advancements better than any country on planet earth. this country also does a lot of bad shit around that world - but it's also one of the only countries in the world as utee94 pointed out - that has the power to do shit all around the world. And unfortunately, it abuses the awesome power it has continually - which is just what every power through history has done. The US is still the worlds lone super power. China pretends to be one, but they aren't. Not quite yet. They are like a baby super power that is trying to grow up and come after our throne. Still not there yet. 

I love this country and think it's the greatest country in the world to live in because of the freedoms and protections it grants it's owns citizens. It might not treat the rest of the world as great - but citizens of this country have it SO much better off in terms of freedoms and protections from their own government than in literally every other country in the entire world imo. would never live anywhere else because of this.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 01, 2022, 02:00:06 PM
 or OAM turning an innocuous discussion into something hateful and anti-religious.
I did what now?

Cincy suggested a battle of Christians beating Muslims was important - as if to say that the Muslims beating the Chrsitians would have been worse.

What else would you glean from this?  
The "hate" word (btw, when in the holy hell did this crowd get so triggered?) was alluding to the above idea in a joking manner.

I'm less guilty of turning the conversaion hateful and you're more guilty of freaking out over nothing.  As how a snowflake might.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 01, 2022, 02:02:04 PM
I did what now?

Cincy suggested a battle of Christians beating Muslims was important - as if to say that the Muslims beating the Chrsitians would have been worse.

What else would you glean from this? 
The "hate" word (btw, when in the holy hell did this crowd get so triggered?) was alluding to the above idea in a joking manner.

I'm less guilty of turning the conversaion hateful and you're more guilty of freaking out over nothing.  As how a snowflake might.

Oh I too was only joking OAM.  Seems like you got triggered by just a little friendly ribbing.

Lighten up, Francis.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 01, 2022, 02:06:54 PM
 BTW does this country do anything thats good or are we bad to the core.
This isn't honest.  Stop it.
The US has many, MANY great things about it.

But as an overall criticism, I'd replace the silly "bad to the core" with perhaps something like "under severely greedy leadership" at every possible level.  

But I'm just an asshole hippy jerkface, so what do I know?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 01, 2022, 02:08:31 PM
This isn't honest.  Stop it.
The US has many, MANY great things about it.

But as an overall criticism, I'd replace the silly "bad to the core" with perhaps something like "under severely greedy leadership" at every possible level. 

But I'm just an asshole hippy jerkface, so what do I know?
wait. I thought MDot was the hippy jerkface?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 02:12:40 PM
wait. I thought MDot was the hippy jerkface?
not a hippy but definitely a jerkface. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 01, 2022, 02:16:20 PM
This isn't honest.  Stop it.
The US has many, MANY great things about it.

But as an overall criticism, I'd replace the silly "bad to the core" with perhaps something like "under severely greedy leadership" at every possible level. 

But I'm just an asshole hippy jerkface, so what do I know?
OAM I assure you that you are not of hippie elk

you are kind of a cross between Rachel Maddow and Mr Rodgers
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 01, 2022, 02:18:37 PM
not a hippy but definitely a jerkface.
you are too hard on yourself

but you should consider growing your hair long and acquiring of of Austin's finest

anyway I hope you know Im just messin with you
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2022, 03:30:04 PM
Oh I too was only joking OAM.  Seems like you got triggered by just a little friendly ribbing.

Lighten up, Francis.
Any a you Homo's touch my shit - I'll kill ya
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2022, 03:32:02 PM
OAM I assure you that you are not of hippie elk

you are kind of a cross between Rachel Maddow and Mr Rodgers Franscis
FIFY
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 01, 2022, 03:39:50 PM
FIFY
even better
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2022, 03:48:15 PM
That is interesting.  I saw a show where they mentioned that truck driver and the guy he picked up who he thinks was DB Cooper but I never heard the theory that he fooled everybody into believing he jumped out there then waited.  How do they explain the money that kid found up in the NW, a plant? 
That part was from the agent who thought DB bailed in the desert around Reno.So another guy completely.I got to get into this book.They think McCoy was DB  lost the money in the 200,000 jump - I don't know where yet.But he had problems with the aft staircase to so he asked for and got 1/2 million on his next jump about 2 yrs later and they somehow nailed him.The guy got away 1/2x as he was in Special Forces in Nam.McCoy ended up getting gunned down by FBI agents.But the Feds dismissed him as DB for what ever reason .Some researchers are piecing together evidence he was DB
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Mdot21 on February 01, 2022, 05:41:52 PM
you are kind of a cross between Rachel Maddow and Mr Rodgers
:043:

Tranny Rodgers
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2022, 05:48:07 PM
I did what now?

Cincy suggested a battle of Christians beating Muslims was important - as if to say that the Muslims beating the Chrsitians would have been worse.

What else would you glean from this? 
The battle was important, clearly, and makes most lists of most important battles in history.  I neither said nor implied anything about what could have been better or worse.

It simply was a pivotal battle in history, one sometimes overlooked in standard history classes in my experience.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 02, 2022, 12:01:57 AM
Okay, then why do many consider it so important?  Let's start there.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 08:11:03 AM
Battles are considered important or not if they have rather obvious lasting influences over world history.  Had the battle gone the other way, life today would likely be very different in each case.  Imagine William had lost at Hastings, life would be very different today, or if the English had won at Orlean.  I don't fully agree with this list, I could think of some other critical battles also, and other lists have other items, but I think they all include Tours.

10 Epic Battles that Changed History | Live Science (https://www.livescience.com/42716-epic-battles-that-changed-history.html)



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 08:11:17 AM
On this day in 1943, German Field Marshal Friedrich Paulus surrendered to Soviet troops at Stalingrad along with the bulk of the German Sixth Army and other Axis forces which had been encircled in the ruins of the city for over two months.
Of the over 300,000 Axis soldiers trapped in the pocket in November 1942, only approximately 100,000 remained alive at the time of surrender.
Stalingrad was one of the bloodiest battles in human history. More than 850,000 Axis soldiers were killed, wounded, or captured, while Soviet casualties numbered close to a million.
The defeat was crushing to Nazi Germany, and the losses to the Wehrmacht would prove fatal to the German war effort.
In Russia today, Stalingrad is remembered as one of the most famous battles of the "Great Patriotic War”. While the price paid for victory was high, its impact on the war was immeasurable, making it one of the most celebrated achievements of the Soviet Union during WWII.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2022, 08:19:15 AM
Midway
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 08:24:29 AM
Midway might not make the list because if the US had lost there, the outcome would have been the same perhaps a bit delayed.  It was pivotal in the war effort, no doubt, because Japan went from being on the offensive to be on the defensive almost exactly at that point, they lost the core of their fleet and their experienced aviators.  Subsequent carrier battles showed an abrupt decline in pilot skill, so had for example, the US lost all 3 carriers and the Japanese had one damaged, all their pilots (nearly) would have survived to fight again.  Guadalcanal probably could not have happened.  The US was down to one carrier for a time in the Pacific (Enterprise).

But by late 1943, the US was building up its fleet in a hurry.  So, history would not have changed much, I think.

The same could be argued for Stalingrad had the Germans prevailed, they would have had a lodging there for a while but the Soviet war machine was just getting started.  The danger was if the Germans had managed to secure the Caucusus on its oil supplies.  Stalin MIGHT have made a deal deal.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 09:40:14 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/z8PuTHT.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 09:44:12 AM
I would consider the Battle of Britain to be pivotal.  There was considerable pressure in GB to come to terms with Hitler, Churchill of course stood in the way of that, but Hitler was willing to offer generous terms.  It was a close thing, at one point the Germans were hitting airfields and radar, and a Brit raid on Berlin caused Hitler and Goering to shift resources to bombing cities.  Had they continued taking out radar and airfields ....

I don't know if Eagle would have happened anyway, but if the British were defeated in the air, they might well have had to ask for terms to avoid an invasion and further bombing.  Then Hitler could devote all his resources against Russia in 1941 and it could have been sufficient to knock Russia out of the war, perhaps leaving a rump state from the Urals east as "Russia".  All the oil and minerals would flow to Germany at that point, it's a bad look.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 02, 2022, 09:57:35 AM
Okay, then why do many consider it so important?  Let's start there.
I answered your line of thought last week...

I think the point that kicked this whole thing off was that if the Christians hadn't won the Battle of Tours, we might all be Muslim.

OAM assumed that this was a "thank God that didn't happen!" point and that it was an attack on Islam. I think he's half right, but missed the bigger point.

-------------

The half that he's right is that from hindsight bias as people of a Western nation where the Judeo-Christian tradition drove much of the history of our society, we take our current history for granted. We're all selfish and self-centered people, who have been raised a certain way and believe it's the right way. We tell ourselves that we never would have had liberal democracy without those Judeo-Christian values. That may even be true.

Of course, today's Muslims are selfish and self-centered, and have been raised a certain way and believe it's the right way. And that we're the wrong ones.

Funny how that works, eh?

The simple truth is that if the Christians had lost the Battle of Tours, and we were all Muslims today, we'd all be grateful that the "right" side had won and would be incredibly happy that our Muslim heritage had survived and flourished. Because we'd all have been raised that way.

-------------

Where I think OAM's criticism was wrong was that I didn't read any "attack" on Islam into the original post. But if the Muslims had won the Battle of Tours, it likely would have drastically altered the entire course of human civilization. Maybe it would have been for the better. Maybe it would have been for the worse.

But it's clear that the way the world developed over the last ~1300 years would be very different than it was. And society as it exists today would likely be very different than it is.

How, precisely, would it differ? I can't really say based on the state of Islam and the West in 2021. Because just as the West would have developed very differently [and perhaps not even be something we call "Western Civilization"], Islam would have developed very differently IMHO had they conquered Europe.

What we know based on previous conquerings is that often a conquering of a different land creates an inescapable blending of the cultures. Much of "Western" civilization is based on the mixing of cultures that occurred as various parts of Europe conquered each other over the centuries. The English language is a messed up amalgamation of diverse roots, some in Latin, some Germanic, and a fair bit that we've picked up elsewhere along the way. European culture in general is a giant mix. Add the Islam of the 700s into that mix and I can't predict what it would look like now.

But the thing that I can predict is that it would be very different than what it is today. Most of us--the selfish and self-centered people that we are--like what we have today, so by default we have to view that suspiciously.
Why was the battle important? Because if the Islamic Caliphate had conquered Europe, the entire world would likely look very different right now.

That doesn't mean it'd be worse. But as we're pretty attached to our lives the way they are, "different" is scary.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 10:31:29 AM
The Islamic world was considerably ahead of the Christian world circa 1000 AD, in some part because they welcomed Jews, who pioneered a lot of medical knowledge.  It is called by some the Islamic Golden Age.  Europe was fighting constant wars which gradually meant they became adept at it and developed new tactics and technical advances (though Mehmet subdued Constantinople in part with cannon, hired from the Viennese).

Had I a choice of where to live as a Jew in 1000 AD, I'd probably select an Islamic area.

Europe advanced greatly through colonization of the New World etc.  They gained in navigation and made discoveries as a result in part because they wanted to advance military naval power.  The New World made Europe rich.  And the Reformation led to the Rennaissance, or vice versa.  The center of power shifted from the Ottomans et al. to Europe.  Spain became incredibly wealthy.  Wealth = Power.

The Wahhabi version of Islam is in my view destructive and really bad.  The Muslims in general are not a problem, for me anyway.  Except I enjoy alcohol.

At any rate, the world would have been quite different with an alternative outcome, better or worse is your own judgment.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Mdot21 on February 02, 2022, 11:30:43 AM
The Wahhabi version of Islam is in my view destructive and really bad.  The Muslims in general are not a problem, for me anyway.  Except I enjoy alcohol.
extremely destructive - and 100% of it emanates from Saudi Arabia - our closest ally in the mid-east. Go figure. The Saudi's have spent over $100 billion in the last couple decades or so exporting this abortion and perversion of the Islam religion around the Muslim world - building schools, mosques, and out-reach centers in countries all around the world.

Not all "terrorists" are Muslim. But virtually all terrorists are followers of wahhabism.

The US is what you would call between a rock and a hard place with the Saudis. They've got us by the short hairs.

The US also does itself no favors when it comes to terrorism. Our government spent billions of dollars and used our CIA to radicalize, arm and train the Mujahideen in Afghanistan in the 80s to fight the Soviets. The remnants and off-shoots of these f***king animals became Al-Qaeda - which went on to attack the US in countless terror attacks - and they also became the Taliban and took over Afghanistan and threw that country and those people into the dark ages. CIA calls this blowback - unintended consequence and unwanted side-effects from our meddling in foreign countries. Sometimes the best course of action is...just to stay the F out.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 02, 2022, 11:31:44 AM
Midway
I am very interested in WWII history and particularly the Pacific War but I agree with @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) as to why this shouldn't be included:
Midway might not make the list because if the US had lost there, the outcome would have been the same perhaps a bit delayed.  It was pivotal in the war effort, no doubt, because Japan went from being on the offensive to be on the defensive almost exactly at that point, they lost the core of their fleet and their experienced aviators.  Subsequent carrier battles showed an abrupt decline in pilot skill, so had for example, the US lost all 3 carriers and the Japanese had one damaged, all their pilots (nearly) would have survived to fight again.  Guadalcanal probably could not have happened.  The US was down to one carrier for a time in the Pacific (Enterprise).

But by late 1943, the US was building up its fleet in a hurry.  So, history would not have changed much, I think.
I highly recommend this book by Anthony Tully and Jonathan Parshall (https://www.amazon.com/Shattered-Sword-Untold-Battle-Midway/dp/1574889249).  The two of them also run a website that covers these issues and here is a tab they call "Grim Economic Realities (http://www.combinedfleet.com/economic.htm)".  From that page, compared to Japan the US had:

Midway is often referred to as the "turning point" and in a way it was, but the outcome of the war was effectively fore-ordained.  The US launched the first of the Essex Class Carriers in July, 1942 and commissioned it in December of that year.  From then through the end of the war the US commissioned a brand new Essex Class Carrier roughly every other month:
In total that is:

Additionally the first of the new and MUCH larger Midway Class Carriers was commissioned within days of the Japanese Surrender and if the situation had warranted the original six planned Midways could all have been completed.  


On that Grim Economic Realities tab that I linked above the authors have a hypothetical comparison of what the carrier situation would have looked like if the US had lost catastrophically at Midway (all three US carriers lost (Enterprise, Hornet, Yorktown) and no Japanese losses.  In that case, the comparison would have been bad for the US for a while:

I'll let Parschall and Tully speak for themselves:

All this is to say that Midway isn't all that important in a macro-historical sense because there really was no way for the Japanese to win so the individual battles do nothing to impact the final result.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 11:35:42 AM
The Hidden Roots of Wahhabism in British India on JSTOR (https://www.jstor.org/stable/40209967)

Wahhabism: What is it and why does it matter? | The Week UK (https://www.theweek.co.uk/87832/wahhabism-what-is-it-and-why-does-it-matter#:~:text=Wahhabism is extensively practised in,called it by their opponents.)

Wahhabism is extensively practised in Saudi Arabia, but has since spread. The term Wahhabism is often seen as derogatory – followers were first called it by their opponents. Many therefore prefer to call themselves salafis, in reference to the salaf – the first, second and third generation of people who lived at the time of the Prophet Muhammad. Others just call themselves Muslims, although, as The Independent says, this implies that "Muslims who do not share their particular interpretation of Islam are not proper Muslims at all (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/wahhabism-a-deadly-scripture-398516.html)". In 2015, Muslims in Britain estimated that 8.6 per cent of British mosques were Salafi (http://www.muslimsinbritain.org/resources/masjid_report.pdf).  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 02, 2022, 11:50:46 AM
yes the Japanese would have eventually lost even if they had won Midway

But the moral boost of the actual battle is not being considered

this alone makes it a key event which shortened the war by years and saved thousands of lives
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 11:57:04 AM
It was a key battle no doubt.  We would have had little to no chance of taking Guadalcanal in August of 1942 had we lost Midway badly.  I'd say no chance at all, which means the shipping lanes to Australia would have come under significant pressure.  The Japanese plan was to take and fortify an outer defense ring include New Guinea and Midway and for the US to take each with casualties that might have led to a negotiated peace.

It is conceivable that could have happened.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 02, 2022, 12:07:36 PM
The same could be argued for Stalingrad had the Germans prevailed, they would have had a lodging there for a while but the Soviet war machine was just getting started.  The danger was if the Germans had managed to secure the Caucusus on its oil supplies.  Stalin MIGHT have made a deal deal.
I think with this one it is hard to say whether the Battle of Moscow or the Siege of Leningrad or the Battle of Stalingrad was THE pivotal battle.  The Soviets *MIGHT* have persisted without Leningrad and/or Moscow and Stalingrad *MIGHT* be too late because by then, as you pointed out, the Soviet war machine was getting up to speed.  

I guess I'd say that somewhere between Barbarossa and Paulus' surrender was pivotal.  I think it is possible that the Soviets could have collapsed just as Russia collapsed in WWI.  A big part of the reason that they didn't was that the German army had to keep switching targets/focus as Hitler kept changing his mind.  A secondary reason is that the Germans invaded on a HUMONGOUS front stretching from the Baltic Sea in the North to the Black Sea in the South and ultimately expanding from Lake Ladoga in the North nearly to the Caspian Sea in the South.  

If they had focused more on one objective (Leningrad in the North, Moscow in the center, or the Caucuses in the South) they would undoubtedly have been able to achieve that ONE objective in 1941 rather than coming up just short on all three.  Considering the three:

Leningrad:
Taking this City probably wouldn't have mattered much.  In the event they had it surrounded for more than two years, destroyed most of it and caused literally hundreds of thousands of casualties and the Soviets were able to continue the war.  The major impact of taking Leningrad would have been that the German troops surrounding the City would have been freed up for use elsewhere such as . . .

Moscow:
Some people will tell you that losing Moscow wouldn't have been a big deal for the Soviets because they could have just kept retreating and there is famously a LOT of land East of the Ural Mountains.  In some respects that is true but it ignores the fact that as a centrally planned economy everything in the Soviet Union was centered on Moscow.  It was not only their largest City, and Capitol but it was also:

Losing Moscow for the Soviets would have been something akin to the US losing Washington, NYC, Detroit, and Chicago all at once.  Additionally there is the psychological impact.  Stalin was hardly a beloved leader in large portions of the Soviet Union and if he had lost his Capitol and communications/transportation hub it isn't all that unlikely that the USSR would have disintegrated into revolution just as Russia did (without losing Moscow) about 30 years earlier.  

Caucuses:
My view is that this would have been the best strategic target for the Germans in 1941.  As I stated above, taking Leningrad wouldn't have been THAT much different that surrounding and destroying it.  Moscow is a big gamble.  If taking Moscow results in the USSR collapsing then that is great for the Germans but if it doesn't then they still have to keep their army fueled and there isn't any oil in Moscow.  There is Oil in the Caucuses, a lot of it.  Getting that oil does two things:

#2 is obviously a lot easier than #1.  In order to accomplish #1 the Germans would have needed all of the following:
In order to accomplish goal #2 all that is needed to deprive the Soviets of any one of the four steps to accomplishing goal #1.  

The Soviets did have some minor other oil supplies and certainly the US would have ramped up Lend-Lease Oil but even the US didn't have unlimited transport capacity.  Any ship carrying petroleum products wouldn't have been able to carry whatever else the Soviets needed.  

Getting the Caucuses is much less of a gamble than getting Moscow because even if the Soviets keep fighting, their ability to fight is significantly diminished because T34's don't run on water and meanwhile the German ability to fight is significantly improved because BF109's are much more effective when they have gas.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2022, 12:13:52 PM
I would consider the Battle of Britain to be pivotal.  
Same thing as Midway might have taken longer but USA supplies Stalin thru Pacific routes to Murmansk .Kaiser Ship Building was completing Liberty Ships in 2-3 weeks.So the War gets dragged on a few more yrs.Sometimes the British i.e.Monty were an impediment to the war effort
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 12:14:46 PM
I used to play a computer war game about this invasion, and I found the best approach is to take Leningrad first, not that this reflects reality of course.  It links you up with the Finns who can assist in suppressing saboteurs in the rear areas and allows an attack on Moscow from the northwest.  Taking Moscow does cause the Russian all sorts of problems.  In reality I agree with the southern approach, and in 1942 they almost pulled it off.

Guderian wrote a very self serving book about how he could have won the war without Hitler's interference, a lot of other writers have contested that premise.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 02, 2022, 12:15:28 PM
On this day in 1943, German Field Marshal Friedrich Paulus surrendered to Soviet troops at Stalingrad along with the bulk of the German Sixth Army and other Axis forces which had been encircled in the ruins of the city for over two months.
Of the over 300,000 Axis soldiers trapped in the pocket in November 1942, only approximately 100,000 remained alive at the time of surrender.
Stalingrad was one of the bloodiest battles in human history. More than 850,000 Axis soldiers were killed, wounded, or captured, while Soviet casualties numbered close to a million.
The defeat was crushing to Nazi Germany, and the losses to the Wehrmacht would prove fatal to the German war effort.
In Russia today, Stalingrad is remembered as one of the most famous battles of the "Great Patriotic War”. While the price paid for victory was high, its impact on the war was immeasurable, making it one of the most celebrated achievements of the Soviet Union during WWII.
It is even worse because they lost North Africa at about the same time and lost a similar number of troops there.  Losses on that scale are staggering and the Germans simply couldn't make up for them.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 02, 2022, 12:27:17 PM
Same thing as Midway might have taken longer but USA supplies Stalin thru Pacific routes to Murmansk .Kaiser Ship Building was completing Liberty Ships in 2-3 weeks.So the War gets dragged on a few more yrs.Sometimes the British i.e.Monty were an impediment to the war effort
I see Monty as an interesting character who gets somewhat unfairly run down here in the US.  He was an EXTREMELY cautious general and that was just what the situation called for in North Africa where supply lines were threatened and resupply could not be counted on.  The problem is that he was still EXTREMELY cautious a few years later when the Allies controlled the seas and skies and any overreach could be covered by massively superior air and sea power and any cut off troops could be resupplied without too much difficulty.  

That is a little bit like a great coach who is overly attached to a power run game.  He is a great coach if he happens to have the right personnel to run THAT offense.  If he has Humongous run-blocking O-Linemen, a great runner who can function as a QB, and WR's who are good at blocking he'll have a lot of success.  However, if he has smaller pass-blocking O-Linemen, a great pocket passer who doesn't move well as a QB, and speedy WR's who are great at catching passes but suck at blocking then that coach will fail.  

I see Admiral Halsey as the inverse.  He was famously aggressive and that worked out great when the right answer was to be aggressive but it also caused a lot of problems (such as for Taffy-3 off the Island of Samar) when being overly-aggressive was decidedly NOT the right answer.  

Which commander (or coach) is better?  Well that depends on whether the situation calls for a cautious or an aggressive commander (or whether you have the personnel to run or pass).  If Halsey had been in charge in North Africa the British might have lost Egypt.  If Monty had been in charge in the South Pacific he might still be waiting to accumulate enough forces to invade Guadalcanal.   

A REALLY great commander (or coach) is one who can correctly figure out what the situation warrants then do that even if it isn't necessarily in his comfort zone.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2022, 12:28:27 PM
N.Africa was strategically not important to the USA,while it may have gotten the troops some experience there was nothing similar to the landscape/topography of Europe like the bocage or thick woods,rivers/ravines


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 12:29:02 PM
I'm thinking if the Brits lose the air battle over the island, they sue for peace, and Hitler turns east.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 12:30:15 PM
N.Africa was strategically not important to the USA,while it may have gotten the troops some experience there was nothing similar to the landscape/topography of Europe like the bocage or thick woods,rivers/ravines
The Suez was strategically important of course.  It virtually knocked Italy out of the war, in effect.  Much has been made of the "soft underbelly" strategy.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2022, 12:36:11 PM
And no Monty does not get unfairly run down he was neither tactically or stratecally gifted.Churchill had his cockups in the Desert removing troops from Richard O'Connor - the original desert fox and moving them to Greece proved disasterous in both places .Also Claude Auchileck had just won 1st El Alamein when Churchill removed him for no damn good reason really.And installed monty who benefitted greatly from the Allied build up that previous commanders had much to do with.Monty took a month longer to go on an offensive than The Auk who had lined the ridge at Alam Halfa with the massive mine field that the butch bernard try telling the press was his own
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 12:44:49 PM
The Market Garden operation was very unlike Monty.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2022, 12:49:48 PM
The Suez was strategically important of course.  It virtually knocked Italy out of the war, in effect.  Much has been made of the "soft underbelly" strategy.
ITALY - really that was another Churchill cock up.It was here that Marshall/FDR/IKE started clashing with the brandy adled Englishman. Just to sail supplies/men/materiel from South Hampton to like Salerno was 2500 nautical miles(I've read)It was like 12-1400 miles in a straight line. And the Alps stretch across the top of Italy Hannibal crossed it like 3,000 yrs ago.You get a Division of Gerries up there and they'd hold it just like the Austrians did in Slovenia during WWI at the Ljubljana Pass.Hell just taking  Monte Cassino was 4 months
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2022, 12:57:25 PM
The Market Garden operation was very unlike Monty.
No it really was as far as his mess ups   Read Hastings,Beevor,Barr,Barnett,Bennet,Atkinson,McManus keegan,Kershaw

I time stamped this listen over the next couple of minutes.It's intersting When time alots watch the whole thing a well done piece IMO

https://youtu.be/duOYnIGivys?t=1579
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 02, 2022, 01:12:52 PM
The Battle of Britain really was more of a campaign 

The British were out manned and the main reason they won this was the stupid decision by the Germans to stop concentrating on the air fields and other defenses and start going after the cities instead

this gave Britain time to catch its breath and beat them
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2022, 01:28:29 PM
The Poles had perhaps the best group of pilots there.It took a while but they were acknowledged unlike their boys who fought at Market Garden
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 01:35:09 PM
A factor also was range of the German fighters, they didn't have much combat time over England, and if shot down, they either died or were captured.

The Me-110 was not very useful as a fighter.  Fighters had short legs in 1940, for the most part.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2022, 01:42:05 PM
A factor also was range of the German fighters, they didn't have much combat time over England, and if shot down, they either died or were captured.

The Me-110 was not very useful as a fighter.  Fighters had short legs in 1940, for the most part.
The Spit and Hurricanes had the same problem if they went across like 15 minutes fighting time before turning around.A lot of Luftwaffe pilots were supposedly clipped this way heading back
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 02, 2022, 01:51:37 PM
The Spit and Hurricanes had the same problem if they went across like 15 minutes fighting time before turning around.A lot of Luftwaffe pilots were supposedly clipped this way heading back
come on P51D
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 02, 2022, 02:09:23 PM
come on P51D
(https://i.imgur.com/QrQEClD.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 02:11:17 PM
The P51D used an Allison licensed version of the same engine used in Spitfires (Merlin).  It had more efficient wings and drop tanks.

The P51 with its original engine was a dog.

I think the Merlin was a 27 L V-12.  That is rather larger than car engines though someone put one in a car on back.

The US often liked radial engines like the Wright Cyclone, the Germans used both.  Pluses and minuses.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 02, 2022, 03:00:38 PM
A factor also was range of the German fighters, they didn't have much combat time over England, and if shot down, they either died or were captured.
Both of those factors are humongous advantages that accrue naturally to the defender and contributed significantly to the British ultimately winning.  If a Spitfire and a Bf109 were both damaged in a dogfight over London and the pilots had to bail out, the Spitfire pilot was back in the air in a new plane in a few days while the Bf109 pilot spent the rest of the war at a POW camp in the US.  That led to much greater attrition of German than of British pilots.  

To a somewhat lesser but still significant extent the same was true for the planes.  Use the same example as above but replace the planes damaged so badly as to require bailing out with planes that can still land but have limited flight time due to something like a destroyed radiator.  In that case the Bf109 pilot's correct response is to bail out so that he survives and his plan is NOT captured.  Nonetheless both plane and pilot are lost to Germany.  Conversely the Spitfire pilot's correct response is to put the plane down on any large open space such as a pasture or roadway.  Both plane and pilot are back in action in a few days.  

Sometimes people don't think through the implications of the time issue.  If flight time from German airbases in Northern France is an hour (each way) and the fighters have 15 minutes of combat time then that does a LOT prop up British numbers.  Suppose that the Germans are launching a raid that will involve an hour of dogfighting (say from noon to 1pm) over England.  In order to have one plane over that space for the entire hour it takes four planes:
Thus, the Germans need four fighters to match each one British fighter in a prolonged dogfight and a 2:1 German superiority in overall numbers results in a 2:1 British superiority in numbers actually in the fight at any one time.  

The Germans could (and did) attempt to get around this problem by concentrating their forces for shorter actions with all hands on deck at once but that requires a level of coordination that is great theoretically but nearly impossible to achieve in practice.  

Also, as mentioned by someone upthread, a lot of German fighters were picked off on their way home when their fuel situation did not allow for radical maneuvering (dogfighting) or any serious attempt to shoot down their attackers.  All they could do was to try to evade their attackers and get home.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 07:23:14 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/H36imXP.png)

Polo Grounds and Yankee Stadium, separated by the Harlem River—circa mid-1950s.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2022, 08:20:39 PM
The P51D used an Allison licensed version of the same engine used in Spitfires (Merlin).  It had more efficient wings and drop tanks.

The P51 with its original engine was a dog.

I think the Merlin was a 27 L V-12.  That is rather larger than car engines though someone put one in a car on back.

The US often liked radial engines like the Wright Cyclone, the Germans used both.  Pluses and minuses.


The original allison was actually faster than the merlin but not above 14,000 for whatever reason. Packard made the Merlin state side and Fords british subsidiary did in England.Packard added the Bendix-Stromberg Pressure Carb that fixed the stalling problem they had.Prolly close to fuel injection like the ME 109 Daimler-Benz
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2022, 08:46:30 PM
Superchargers
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 02, 2022, 11:05:27 PM
The original allison was actually faster than the merlin but not above 14,000 for whatever reason. Packard made the Merlin state side and Fords british subsidiary did in England.Packard added the Bendix-Stromberg Pressure Carb that fixed the stalling problem they had.Prolly close to fuel injection like the ME 109 Daimler-Benz
That "whatever reason" was:
Superchargers
At altitude the air gets thinner so you can use more boost without blowing up your manifold or engine.  The North American Engineers couldn't use the variable speed supercharged version of that Allison V12 because they were all allocated to the twin-engined P38.  The Merlin was a great engine but the Allison wasn't any worse provided you compare the appropriately turbo-supercharged version.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 07:13:45 AM
I didn't know that
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 07:45:41 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Vr5dpdj.jpg)

French Army's wine stock at Gallipoli 1915.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 03, 2022, 07:57:50 AM
Superchargers
Think it might have been "Tubo" working off exhaust and not direct drive which would require a little more HP
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 08:01:16 AM
Yeah, they generally were turbosuperchargers, I wonder where Allison got them for the Merlin if they were allocated for the P38.

Those were complex engines, My dad's B24 had issues with them frequently.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 08:43:30 AM

 (https://www.quora.com/profile/Richard-Cownie-1)Richard Cownie
 (https://www.quora.com/profile/Richard-Cownie-1)
, grew up w/ stacks of Aviation Weekly
Answered 11 months ago (https://www.quora.com/Why-was-the-Merlin-engine-better-than-the-Allison/answer/Richard-Cownie-1) · Author has 1K answers and 869.5K answer views

The Allison engine was a clever, elegant design with relatively few parts, designed by a fairly small company which didn’t have the engineering and manufacturing resources to quickly fix all the design, manufacturing, and quality-control problems.

Technically, it didn’t have a two-stage supercharger which would allow it to give high power at higher altitudes - whereas the Merlin had a number of different variants with highly-optimized superchargers designed by Stanley Hooker, who was head and shoulders above everyone else in the world in that particular field of engineering. The favored US solution was to use a General Electric turbocharger in aircraft designed for high altitude missions - but turbocharger installations were bulky and complex, and managing the interactions of turbocharger, intercooler, and engine across a wide range of altitude and weather conditions was a hard problem that Allison, GE, and aircraft manufacturers didn’t really figure out until too late.

The Merlin was a complex engine, sometimes described as “a watchmaker’s nightmare”. But Rolls-Royce had the expertise and the resources to make it work well enough, and (together with Ford UK and Packard) to produce it with high quality in high volume. Britain more or less went all-in to make the Merlin work, and thank God it *did* work, even as early as mid-1940 when Merlin-engined Hurricanes and Spitfires defeated the Luftwaffe. In the USA, on the the other hand, a larger proportion of engineering resources went into radial engines, and the Allison was underdeveloped.

TL; DR you get what you pay for, and the Allison wasn’t given enough priority and resources to become fully mature and robust across a range of applications.

[Update: a book review here goes into more detail about problems with uneven fuel-air mixture due to the Allison’s manifold design; and Allison’s corporate policy of not spending their own money to make design changes, and avoiding major design changes.

An Apologetica for Allison and the V-1710 engine (https://www.amazon.com/review/R1Z2CR1FQWKYGL)


“Whitney does point out that during WWII, Allison had in place a policy of not using its own corporate funds to develop or improve its engines. Allison did make some efforts to improve the V-1710 as the war progressed, but it also had in place a policy of making as few changes as possible to the basic engine; as a result, thorough re-designs to correct persistent problems were never done and so later upgraded versions of the V-1710 were unable to reach the same level of reliability and performance as the Merlin (and later, the Griffin) engines.


The V-1710's manifold had 4 pipes feeding 3 cylinders (unlike the common plenum chamber design of the Merlin) and so was inherently prone to providing poor air-fuel distribution into the cylinders, leading to this problem of premature detonations in the cylinders whenever the engine was stressed to produce high power under unfavorable circumstances (e.g., in combat at 30,000 feet). The later two-stage supercharger was also a tacked on afterthought lacking all of the refined features of the Merlin's two-stage supercharger (chiefly, a backfire screen and an intercooler - the two-stage supercharger V-1710 used only anti-detonation injection to prevent detonation inside the supercharger) and was also prone to failure.“]




Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 08:49:43 AM
It was Packard who built Merlins on license, not Allison, my bad.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 08:53:46 AM
In answer to a request from the British Air Ministry (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Ministry) for a high-altitude Merlin for the pressurised Wellington VI (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vickers_Wellington#Variants) high-altitude bomber, a Rolls-Royce team under the direction of Stanley Hooker (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Hooker) developed a Merlin with two-stage supercharging, which became the Merlin 60-series. The first 60-series engine ran in March 1941, and was first flown in July the same year.[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packard_V-1650_Merlin#cite_note-4) When only 63 examples of the otherwise-cancelled Wellington VI were produced, these engines were instead introduced on the Spitfire IX (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarine_Spitfire) as the Merlin 61.

This model was later produced by Packard as the V-1650-3 and became known as the "high altitude" Merlin destined for the P-51, the first two-stage Merlin-Mustang conversion flying with a Merlin 61[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packard_V-1650_Merlin#cite_note-5) as the Mustang X (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Mustang_Mk.X) in October 1942, the production V-1650-3 engined P-51B (Mustang III) entering service in 1943. The two-speed, two-stage supercharger section of the two-stage Merlins and V-1650-3 featured two separate impellers on the same shaft that were normally driven through a gear train at a ratio of 6.391:1. A hydraulic gear change arrangement of oil-operated clutches could be engaged by an electric solenoid to increase this ratio to 8.095:1 in high speed blower position.[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]

The high speed gear ratio of the impellers was not as high as the ratio used in the Allison (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allison_V-1710), but impeller speed is not the only factor that determines engine performance, which is also a function of the size and pitch of the impeller blades. The gear-driven supercharger is a parasitic accessory; therefore, impeller gearing and blade profiles are carefully designed for maximum power at altitude without compromise of available power at the critical take off stage of flight. The double staging of the compressed fuel/air mixture provided the boost pressure through a diffuser to the intake manifolds that increased the critical altitude (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_altitude) of the power plant.[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]

The ability of the supercharger to maintain a sea level atmosphere in the induction system to the cylinders allowed the Packard Merlin to develop more than 1,270 horsepower (950 kW) above 30,000 feet (9,100 m).[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] The two-stage impeller created extreme heating of the fuel/air mixture during the compression process, and, to prevent detonation of the compressed charge, it was necessary to cool the mixture prior to entry into the cylinders. The cooling was accomplished in an intercooler (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercooler#Air-to-liquid_intercoolers) passage cast into the wheel case housing between the first and second-stage impellers.[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] Ethylene glycol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene_glycol) coolant was circulated by a pump through this passage to carry off the excess heat generated by the impellers. Without the intercooler the temperature of the charge could be as high as 400 °F (204 °C).[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] The intercooler in itself was not adequate to deal with the high temperature and an additional cooling fin and tube core was placed between the outlet of the blower and the induction manifold to the cylinders. This radiator was known as an aftercooler (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aftercooler) and served as a reservoir for the supercharger cooling system. The glycol mixture used for cooling was independent of the main engine cooling system and used a centrifugal pump driven by the engine to circulate the coolant through an aircraft radiator system at a maximum rate of 36 U.S. gallons (136 litres, 30 Imperial gallons) per minute, depending on engine rpm.[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] This combined system reduced the charge temperature to suitable levels.

Throttle valves in the updraft carburettor throat were controlled by an automatic boost control through the throttle linkage to maintain the selected manifold pressure with changes in altitude. The valves were only partially open during ground and low-level operation to prevent overboosting of the engine. As air density decreases with increased altitude, the throttle valves were progressively opened in response to the reducing atmospheric pressure. This system provided full power within engine boost limitations up to the critical altitude of 26,000 feet (7,900 m).[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 01:40:42 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/mIfhAY3.png)

The term corvette is derived from the French word for “sloop,” a name suggested by Winston Churchill, who while filling the role of First Lord of the Admiralty (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Lord_of_the_Admiralty) remembered such a ship from the days of fighting sail. Originally, vessels in the class were named after types of flowers, such as HMS Gladiolus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Gladiolus_(K34)) and HMS Tulip (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Tulip_(K29)). The corvettes’ odd naming convention also retained an element of British cheekiness: It was thought “that one of Hitler’s sea wolves (U-boats) [having] been destroyed by a vessel named for a flower” would be a public relations victory in Britain and an embarrassment to the Nazis. Conversely, Canadian Flower-class vessels primarily assumed the names of Canadian cities and towns as a means to instill national pride and forge a connection between the population and the country’s relatively young navy. However, there were notable exceptions to this naming convention for Canadian corvettes built in British yards and initially intended for the Royal Navy, such as HMCS Snowberry (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMCS_Snowberry)

They were “broad, chunky, and graceless”
The Flower-class was modest but effective. Nicholas Monsarrat (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Monsarrat) described HMS Compass Rose, the fictional corvette in his great work The Cruel Sea (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cruel_Sea_(novel)), as “two hundred feet long, broad, chunky, and graceless: designed purely for anti-submarine work, and not much more than a floating platform for depth charges, she was the prototype of a class of ship which could be produced quickly and cheaply in the future, to meet the urgent demands of convoy escort.” Monsarrat’s description is both poetic and accurate. The corvette was a mere 205 feet long, 33 feet in the beam, with a 12-foot draft. In general appearance, the Canadian and British corvettes were nearly indistinguishable. The hull was divided into three sections: accommodations were primarily in the forward third of the ship, the midships section contained machinery and engineering spaces, while the aft section contained additional accommodations, storage for provisions, and steering gear. 

(https://i0.wp.com/militaryhistorynow.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Aconit42_net-2.jpg?resize=650%2C262&ssl=1)A Flower-class corvette in profile. (Image source: WikiMedia Commons)
The design was based on the whaling vessel Southern Pride (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Pride), but with modifications to the hull, superstructure, internal layout, and technical equipment. Flower-class corvettes were deliberately simple, allowing for quick production in smaller shipyards such that larger, more experienced shipyards could focus on the manufacture of larger, more advanced warships. Moreover, the simplicity of the corvette allowed for simple and straight-forward operation by the green sailors who would crew them.



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 02:37:26 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/LurOUMV.png)

On this day in 1848, the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo was signed, ending the Mexican-American War. After nearly two years of fighting, the U.S. Army had completely overwhelmed the forces of Mexican President and General Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna. As such, the terms of peace were exceedingly in the United States’ favor. These included the establishment of the Rio Grande River as the border between Texas and Mexico, and the ceding of land that today includes most of the states of California, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, New Mexico, and Arizona. (The remainder of the Southwest was acquired by the Gadsden Purchase in 1853).
This massive territorial expansion had been a stated goal of U.S. President James K. Polk, and directly fed into the idea of Manifest Destiny (that the US was destined to range “from sea to shining sea”). But it also directly fueled political tensions over the issue of slavery, and its expansion into these newly acquired territories. Mexico had abolished slavery in 1829, and so many of the new American citizens living in the  West were divided. Implementation of slavery in these areas would give power to the institution and its champions, and already the fear of what this could mean spread throughout the country.
In the end, after numerous political debates and minor compromises, fears were momentarily abated. Other than Texas, no other part of the Mexican Cession would choose to adopt the institution. But the issue of the hypothetical expansion of slavery would hang over the head of the nation until the Civil War brought the conflict to its greatest point. As the poet Ralph Waldo Emerson so prophetically put it prior to the start of the War: “The U.S. will conquer Mexico, but it will be as the man swallows the arsenic, which brings him down in turn. Mexico will poison us."

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 03, 2022, 03:09:18 PM


Throttle valves in the updraft carburettor throat were controlled by an automatic boost control through the throttle linkage to maintain the selected manifold pressure with changes in altitude. 


Idk what any of this means, but if I still had my Jeep, I'd try to install it and see how it goes...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 03, 2022, 03:25:32 PM
Idk what any of this means, but if I still had my Jeep, I'd try to install it and see how it goes...
Unless you needed performance at 20,000 ft altitude, it'd be a waste :57:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 03, 2022, 03:27:31 PM
Unless you needed performance at 20,000 ft altitude, it'd be a waste :57:
Driving up Everest?  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 03, 2022, 03:30:57 PM
Unless you needed performance at 20,000 ft altitude, it'd be a waste :57:
Closest I've come to that is the high mountain passes around central Colorado.  
Being above the timber line was cool.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 04:04:57 PM
Modern turbo applications of course are quite advanced and electronic and very effective I find.  My last two vehicles were both 2.0 L turbos and both worked very well, no detectable lag except at very low RPM.  A turbo would be even more useful if you live in Colorado.

Fuel injection is a big deal these days vs the old carbs.  I'm rather amazed how advanced ICE's are today.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 03, 2022, 04:57:25 PM
Being above the timber line was cool. 
You were drunk in the desert again weren't you
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 05:05:13 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Cl8lYGw.jpg)

Above the tree line.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 05:06:13 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/vpfTL43.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 05:13:42 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ha30cdy.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 05:22:24 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/MagyBKt.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 05:22:45 PM
Extra credit if you know the location of those photos.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 03, 2022, 05:30:42 PM
Extra credit if you know the location of those photos.
Dude...

I TOLD you not to be posting pictures of my vacation home!

You won't be invited back...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 03, 2022, 05:54:29 PM
Extra credit if you know the location of those photos.
in the mountains
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 03, 2022, 05:56:04 PM
Extra credit if you know the location of those photos.
Austria
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 06:31:43 PM
Good guess and close
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Mdot21 on February 03, 2022, 06:41:06 PM
Good guess and close
Switzerland
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 03, 2022, 06:50:47 PM
Obviously, it's the Netherhollands.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 07:05:28 PM
Another good close guess 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Mdot21 on February 03, 2022, 07:07:01 PM
Another good close guess
dude, where? lol.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 03, 2022, 07:19:33 PM
at first I thought it was Eagles Nest in Bavaria but after looking at it closely I dont think so
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2022, 07:40:21 PM
Mont Blanc, the French side, near Chamonix.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 03, 2022, 07:48:36 PM
Mont Blanc, the French side, near Chamonix.
Good pens 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 03, 2022, 07:48:52 PM
Mont Blanc, the French side, near Chamonix.
damn I was gonna guess that next
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 04, 2022, 12:11:53 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/vpfTL43.jpg)
Rocky Top - Drew's digs
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 04, 2022, 10:27:39 AM
24 Accurate War Movies That Absolutely Got It Right (ranker.com) (https://www.ranker.com/list/accurate-war-movies/justin-andress?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=historypost&pgid=642850749204637&utm_campaign=accurate-war-movies&fbclid=IwAR0K0T8PqKrfT_EoK0bpQ2o7MLWG43wNeyE630DDXjQmcMiNODlUiaawlso)

A Bridge Too Far, directed by Richard Attenborough, tells the story of an allied attempt to enter Northern Germany in 1944 in order to "drop paratroopers in the German-occupied Netherlands, seize bridges behind enemy lines, and make way for a full invasion," according to The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/film/2009/jul/15/a-bridge-too-far-reel-history). The attempt was called "Market Garden" and veterans of the operation, including John Addison with the British XXX Corps and a man named Dirk Bogarde, were involved in the making of the film. 
A Bridge Too Far is praised for its accuracy in regard to its depiction of character and those involved in the actual event. Though it suffers from a few inaccuracies and has been considered rather drab by those looking for entertainment, the film is still considered by veterans as a mostly faithful depiction of an important moment in history. 

More A Bridge Too Far  (https://www.ranker.com/review/a-bridge-too-far/521541?ref=morenode)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 04, 2022, 10:45:03 AM
I think there is a segment of Band of Brothers on this
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 04, 2022, 01:03:40 PM
On This Day in History > February 4, 1783:

King George III declares a permanent ceasefire to the American Revolution
"On February 4, 1783, King George III declares a permanent ceasefire to the American Revolution. After the surrender of General Charles Cornwallis' army at Yorktown, Virginia in October, 1781, many members of Parliament decided it was time to end the war. The House of Commons first voted to end the war on February 27, 1782 and in March, Prime Minister North resigned.
By April 4, General Henry Clinton was replaced as Commander of British forces in North America by Sir Guy Carleton, who was charged with implementing a withdrawal. Informal peace negotiations began in April in Paris between Ben Franklin and Richard Oswald, the representative of the new Prime Minister, Charles Watson Wentworth, the Marquess of Rockingham.
By September, 1782, John Jay had arrived in Paris from Spain and John Adams had arrived from Holland. They joined the now formal peace negotiations and on November 30, a preliminary peace treaty is signed, in which Britain acknowledges the sovereignty of the United States, the boundaries of the United States are determined and Britain agrees to withdraw its forces from US territory.
The preliminary treaty is ratified by Parliament on January 20, 1783 and a ceasefire is declared by King George on February 4. The American Congress declares a ceasefire on April 11 and ratifies the preliminary treaty on April 15, 1783.
On September 3, 1783, the final Treaty of Paris is signed in Paris by representatives John Jay, John Adams and Ben Franklin from America and representative David Hartley from Great Britain. Congress ratifies the Treaty of Paris on January 14, 1784 and Parliament ratifies it on April 9, 1784. The final act of the road to peace is a formal exchanging of the signed documents in Paris on May 12, 1784, finally bringing the American Revolution to a close."



=AT2v8Y4_GfFK3oB9l4gYYetMt5eDDSmwvn3oTdyJl4F-nXfxOkXAHi9RxMC_CBeizng82N1iPyt64htFwITfi_p6nfWNGmHuKed83zeeVqMxwh1rWt5pFRRLReeG5LiayPgqU5QhDNUzbWd-27Euxysl4HHFkzxoPHOyAxR0A_WB-ItfEno2ochrhEi6eZftD563BGM99qBujGWeapNnx_jElsjcphH8-Q"]Revolutionary-War-and-Beyond.com (http://"https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2FRevolutionary-War-and-Beyond.com%2F%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR1a3zsnqn7sdp8W04nRSFP7nP4rMepiH2WmxoKBc1_k7sGaFk6qwiwFgUY&h=AT2i5m-Wk1yr4SaOZmJm5_x7T2Nn0R9YCpyRwV27XE1TKXlGHVpslQ-l-BRbjeD04jjN09xJik6FEEQBGlnf5DEU1CCgR5b2e_-LKXZwAC_2rSQihFZHYSEZajcyhG0cIA&__tn__=-UK-R&c[0)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 04, 2022, 01:41:34 PM
1935 Eastern Airlines:

(https://i.imgur.com/WUuj2O1.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 08:13:38 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/yvJXnt1.png)

1937, somewhere out west ...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 05, 2022, 08:46:37 AM
When I count to 3....we all jump!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 09:00:49 AM
Real Facts That Sound Made Up (ranker.com) (https://www.ranker.com/list/true-facts-that-sound-made-up/setareh-janda?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=weirdnature&pgid=1720062798304165&utm_campaign=true-facts-that-sound-made-up&fbclid=IwAR18yghfjVsO1HkuWMd1VX2at_pZFF7j3u1WdmOeRq1p2BnWOl0wWJUJDZc)

President John Tyler - Born During George Washington's Presidency - Has A Grandson Who Is Still Alive

John Tyler was the 10th President of the United States, holding the nation's highest office between 1841 and 1845. But even though he was born when George Washington was still President and passed decades before the invention of the light bulb, Tyler has grandchildren who lived well into the 21st century.
Tyler had a son - Lyon Gardiner Tyler - when he was around 63 in 1853. Likewise, the younger Tyler fathered children into his 70s (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/07/us/lyon-gardiner-tyler-jr-dead.html). Two of them survived into the 2020s: Lyon Gardiner Tyler Jr. passed in 2020 (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/grandson-10th-president-john-tyler-dies-180975992/); his younger brother Harrison Ruffin Tyler remains the last surviving grandchild of John Tyler as of 2021.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 09:01:23 AM
Cleopatra's Birth Happened Closer To The Digital Age Than To The Completion Of The Great Pyramid At Giza

Ptolemaic ruler Cleopatra VII has the distinction of being Egypt's last pharaoh. At the time of her passing in 30 BCE, Egypt became a province of Rome. 
Even though Cleopatra is one of Egypt's most storied leaders, her life was chronologically closer to today than it was to other icons of the ancient period. The Great Pyramid of Giza, for example, was completed around 2540 BCE (https://www.history.com/news/how-long-did-it-take-to-build-the-great-pyramid). Since Cleopatra lived from around 69 to 30 BCE (https://www.biography.com/royalty/cleopatra-vii), she existed closer in time to the internet age than the Old Kingdoms of her homeland.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 09:02:34 AM
Wyoming Only Has Two Escalators In The Entire State

Escalators are a common sight around the world. Whether you are in a mall, a department store, or an airport, it is difficult to find a large building without a set of escalators for people to travel between different floors. That isn’t the case in the US state of Wyoming. There are only two sets of escalators (https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/07/the-state-of-wyoming-has-2-escalators/277891/) in the entire state, both of them located in banks in the town of Casper. Local government officials believe that the lack of escalators comes from the fact that many of the buildings in Wyoming are older and not suitable whilst stairs and elevators are cheaper to install and maintain.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 09:03:37 AM
The Pyramids Were Built By Paid Workers Not Slaves
(https://imgix.ranker.com/user_node_img/50073/1001454621/original/the-pyramids-were-built-by-paid-workers-not-slaves-photo-u1?auto=format&q=60&fit=crop&fm=pjpg&dpr=2&w=650)
Photo: Ricardo Liberato (http://liberato.org/) / Wikimedia Commons (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_pyramids) / CC BY-SA 2.0 (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/deed.en)
The common consensus until very recently was that the pyramids of Egypt were constructed using huge numbers of slaves. How else would the ancient civilization have been able to construct such huge structures? However, those involved in the field of Egyptology have known for decades that the people who built the pyramids (https://www.ranker.com/list/discovery-of-how-pyramids-were-built/nicky-benson) were paid workers, not slaves. This has been proven with recent tomb finds, which show the workers buried honorably (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/jan/11/great-pyramid-tombs-slaves-egypt) near the massive buildings with beer and bread to prepare them for the afterlife.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 05, 2022, 12:27:00 PM
 However, those involved in the field of Egyptology have known for decades that the people who built the pyramids (https://www.ranker.com/list/discovery-of-how-pyramids-were-built/nicky-benson) were paid workers, not slaves. 
(https://i.imgur.com/5lGkobT.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 02:17:26 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/8kbGyE0.png)

Rather famous building 1948-1952, extra credit if you know its name.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 04:10:47 PM


Bikini atoll 1946 test(https://i.imgur.com/twNy4J6.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 05, 2022, 04:56:17 PM
48-52 is  WhiteHouse 1600 PA.AVENUE - DC
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2022, 04:58:34 PM
48-52 is  WhiteHouse 1600 PA.AVENUE - DC
Correct, you get a cheroot.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 05, 2022, 06:39:44 PM
Is that a cross between a Cherry Cola and a Root Beer?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2022, 11:01:21 AM
The origin of the word "blimp" has been the subject of some confusion. Lennart Ege notes two possible derivations:[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blimp#cite_note-ege-2)
Quote
Colloquially non-rigid airships always were referred to as 'Blimps'. Over the years several explanations have been advanced about the origin of this word. The most common is that in the military vernacular the Type B was referred to as 'limp bag', which was simply abbreviated to 'blimp'. An alternative explanation is that on 5 December 1915, Commander A. D. Cunningham, R.N. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Navy), of the Capel-Le-Ferne Air Ship Station (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNAS_Capel), flicked the envelope of the airship SS.12 with his fingers during an inspection, which produced a sound that he mimicked and pronounced as 'blimp'; and that the word then caught on as the nickname for all small non-rigid airships.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blimp#cite_note-Meager,_Captain_George_A.F.C._1970,_p._32-3)
The onomatopoeic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onomatopoeia) derivation, as the sound the airship makes when one taps the envelope (balloon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balloon)) with a finger, has been recorded in the British Aeronautical Journal.[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blimp#cite_note-4)
A 1943 etymology, published in The New York Times (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_York_Times), supports a British origin during the First World War when the British were experimenting with lighter-than-air craft. The initial non-rigid aircraft was called the A-limp; and a second version called the B-limp was deemed more satisfactory.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blimp#cite_note-5)
Yet a third derivation is given by Barnes & James in Shorts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Brothers) Aircraft since 1900:
Quote
In February 1915 the need for anti-submarine patrol airships became urgent, and the Submarine Scout (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_class_blimp) type was quickly improvised by hanging an obsolete B.E.2c (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B.E.2c) fuselage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuselage) from a spare Willows (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willows_airships) envelope; this was done by the R.N.A.S. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Naval_Air_Service) at Kingsnorth (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNAS_Kingsnorth), and on seeing the result for the first time, Horace Short (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Brothers), already noted for his very apt and original vocabulary, named it "Blimp", adding, "What else would you call it?"[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blimp#cite_note-FOOTNOTEBarnesJames198913-6)
Dr. A. D. Topping researched the origins of the word and concluded that the British had never had a "Type B, limp" designation, and that Cunningham's coinage appeared to be the correct explanation.[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blimp#cite_note-7)
The Oxford English Dictionary (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_English_Dictionary) notes its use in print in 1916: "Visited the Blimps..this afternoon at Capel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNAS_Capel)". In 1918, the Illustrated London News (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illustrated_London_News) said it was "an onomatopœic name invented by that genius for apposite nomenclature, the late Horace Short."[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blimp#cite_note-8)


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 06, 2022, 12:14:19 PM
1935 Eastern Airlines:

(https://i.imgur.com/WUuj2O1.png)
can't be accurate
no cigarette smoke
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 06, 2022, 01:04:18 PM
can't be accurate
no cigarette smoke
I was thinking the exact same thing

maybe it wasnt allowed or just not photogenic 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 06, 2022, 01:06:57 PM
My first thought as well.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2022, 01:12:24 PM
No doubt a staged photo.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 06, 2022, 01:15:20 PM
As late as the mid 90s on my earliest transatlantic flights they still had smoking sections on commercial flights.  So gross.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2022, 01:32:24 PM
Yup, hard to believe.  My first trip on an airliner was in 1980, flying was really expensive back then.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 06, 2022, 01:34:48 PM
Yup, hard to believe.  My first trip on an airliner was in 1980, flying was really expensive back then.
My first trip was on a 707 in 1967
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 06, 2022, 01:35:14 PM
photoshopped
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 06, 2022, 01:36:16 PM
mine was in 76 - bicentennial school trip to Washington DC

parents had not been on a plane at that time

couldn't afford it
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 06, 2022, 01:45:20 PM
We had one family vacation via plane when I was 10 in 1988... It was the only time I had been on a plane until I started interviewing for jobs my final semester at Purdue. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 06, 2022, 02:15:39 PM
can't be accurate
no cigarette smoke
I was thinking the exact same thing

maybe it wasnt allowed or just not photogenic
My first thought as well.
I was looking for DB Cooper and the aft stair well
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 06, 2022, 02:37:49 PM
I was looking for DB Cooper and the aft stair well
need a 727 for that
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2022, 04:06:52 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/s6X1qCj.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 07, 2022, 10:16:12 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/59ST8VE.jpg)

I vaguely recall when the first one opened in Augusta when I was a kid, a 1961 D penny got you a burger.

They might serve well over a million now per day.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 07, 2022, 10:19:11 AM
[img width=500 height=332.992]https://i.imgur.com/59ST8VE.jpg[/img]

I vaguely recall when the first one opened in Augusta when I was a kid, a 1961 D penny got you a burger.

They might serve well over a million now per day.

Yeah with ~39,000 locations worldwide, they'd only need to serve 26 customers per location to reach 1,000,000 in a day.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 07, 2022, 11:15:00 AM
Lightning Lap 2022: The Hottest Cars on America's Toughest Track (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a38955362/lightning-lap-2022/?utm_source=facebook&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR3KN39jGUsWZs0EGAGYK96WdPsSFH72USiiFHsCJ-dENEY34uAhL8VwFHo)

Performance cars (and SUVs) put in bravura performances at Virginia International Raceway—this year including the BMW M3, Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing, Mercedes-AMG GT, Subaru BRZ, and many more.

(https://i.imgur.com/IMP4Vss.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 07, 2022, 12:02:04 PM
When Alexander the Great died, his empire was divided up by his generals. Ptolemy claimed Egypt and began building a monumental lighthouse at the entrance to Alexandria’s harbor. The structure was completed by his son Ptolemy II circa 250 B.C. It stood more than 100 meters tall. At night, a fire burning atop the tower was visible to ships far out at sea. A mirror guided vessels during the day. Although not built by Romans, it served as an inspiration for Roman mariners and rulers for centuries. The Pharos of Alexandria was repeatedly damaged by earthquakes until the last remains collapsed in A.D. 1480. [color=var(--blue-link)]www.chi-rhogroup.com (http://www.chi-rhogroup.com/?fbclid=IwAR3mqzI4qtecEmv1AH4ZRMZ3DrlpiOze89Lft7YxGAk-RGy1EJc1LMvpvwI)[/url][/font][/size][/color] 

(https://i.imgur.com/ANbLBTK.png)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 07, 2022, 12:22:27 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/s6X1qCj.png)
I've seen this referenced before and it sure is interesting.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 07, 2022, 06:21:29 PM
Stalin & Hitler within what 10 miles or less of each other? Talk about a portal to hell
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 07, 2022, 06:35:26 PM
too bad they didn't randomly bump into each other and kill each other
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 07, 2022, 07:04:56 PM
How a Regional Conflict Escalated Into World War I - HISTORY (https://www.history.com/news/regional-conflict-world-war-i-beginning?cmpid=email-hist-inside-history-2022-0207-02072022&om_rid&~campaign=hist-inside-history-2022-0207&fbclid=IwAR3W_NJyyuLLQhcscIpKvkhAyKJ3EiGZ-1PR8QUSmM_9Gs7o55t9mi7gGo4)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 07, 2022, 10:06:58 PM
Lightning Lap 2022: The Hottest Cars on America's Toughest Track (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a38955362/lightning-lap-2022/?utm_source=facebook&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR3KN39jGUsWZs0EGAGYK96WdPsSFH72USiiFHsCJ-dENEY34uAhL8VwFHo)

Performance cars (and SUVs) put in bravura performances at Virginia International Raceway—this year including the BMW M3, Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing, Mercedes-AMG GT, Subaru BRZ, and many more.

(https://i.imgur.com/IMP4Vss.png)
Great stuff.  Some amazing performance across the different price categories. 

It is still shocking how the SUVs perform now- easily outperforming most cars in speed and cornering. 

I am a bit surprised they used the x4m competition as the X3M Competition has the same motor ( as well as the M3xdrive competition) and has performed better than the X4M in most tests. In fact, it has performed closer to the sedan (M3X drive). 

I own the 22 X3M competition as well as RSQ8 in this test ( although mine is modified to add over 125 Hp, so it has more than the URUS)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 04:12:34 AM
I don't think an SUV will outperform a car in its price range and type.  The performance SUVs are indeed remarkable, and expensive.  I imagine the vast majority if SUV owners never go off road, never tow anything, and drive it like their Aunt Fannie drove a 1965 Chevy wagon.

These tests, for me, are fun to read about, but few owners track their cars or are able to drive them at 9/10ths.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 05:23:43 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/kv2To5F.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 06:46:32 AM
I don't think an SUV will outperform a car in its price range and type.  The performance SUVs are indeed remarkable, and expensive.  I imagine the vast majority if SUV owners never go off road, never tow anything, and drive it like their Aunt Fannie drove a 1965 Chevy wagon.

These tests, for me, are fun to read about, but few owners track their cars or are able to drive them at 9/10ths.


If you read the article and looked at the times, you will see that the performance SUVs DO outperform most cars in their price range. 

for example- an X3M will substantially outperform most cars in that price range.  Just not performance cars- but most aren’t performance cars.

yes a lot of people that buy them don’t take them off road but that’s not why they bought them. they bought them because they want to be able to take large cargo, like golf clubs, dogs, family yet not sacrifice incredible speed and cornering. And many of the owners do take them to both the road track and the dragstrip. I am on forums with many of these owners and it is very common.  And they also tow with them. My Audi SUV can tow my 25 foot boat with ease and I do move it using my Audi. 

because SUVs have become by far the most popular segment, many of the car makers have focused the majority of their R&D on them. Again, if you look at the 0 to 60 times, the quarter-mile times, and the track times at places like VIOR, as well as the G forces these cars can achieve you will see that the modern high performance SUVs are doing incredible things and are way better on the track than 95% of the cars out there. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 08:19:49 AM
That is why I said "price range and type".  I'm sure they outrun a luxury car, a Lexus or something, but compare a BMW X sedan vs SUV in the same price range.

Most SUVs I see around town are glorified station wagons that sit higher up and get poor fuel economy.  If you drive one like you would a minivan, just get a minivan.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Temp430 on February 08, 2022, 09:13:22 AM
Lots of historical love between Russia and Ukraine.  In 1932-33 Stalin intentionally created a famine in Ukraine where 5 million starved to death. The rather impressive body count was only outdone by Hitler in Ukraine in coming years.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 09:18:20 AM
My guess is a fair number in Ukraine view themselves as Russians, particularly in the border areas.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 10:12:58 AM
That is why I said "price range and type".  I'm sure they outrun a luxury car, a Lexus or something, but compare a BMW X sedan vs SUV in the same price range.

Most SUVs I see around town are glorified station wagons that sit higher up and get poor fuel economy.  If you drive one like you would a minivan, just get a minivan.
Well your right about “ most SUVs”

have you owned or driven an SUV that can run a sub 3.5 0-60, a sub 12 second 1/4 mile, or pull .97 Gs on the skid pad? 

If not- you should give it a whirl.  Will blow your mind what a high performance SUV is capable of- while still being a family hauler, grocery getter or cross country travel machine.  It’s not like the old days. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 08, 2022, 10:13:38 AM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/s640x640/272760293_2246050088871556_1722703087585270412_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=WWHYS71ABCsAX8PStFI&tn=_MnT8OkIfzNoswba&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT_eW3CpqGEZNE30TlHkB-J_M7Kffmnjug9itDvuAof0Gg&oe=6208387F)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 08, 2022, 10:20:42 AM
My guess is a fair number in Ukraine view themselves as Russians, particularly in the border areas.
Got a friend who is Ukranian and the GPs came over back in the day and they ran a meat/butcher shop.If you've never had twice smoked Kovbasa I think it is,get it - cloges the arteries up while you're eating it but soooo good. Buddy's family would take turns with you for making statements like that
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 08, 2022, 10:39:34 AM
My guess is a fair number in Ukraine view themselves as Russians, particularly in the border areas.
There are a lot more who are tired of being slaughtered by Russians, so my guess is that Ukraine will strive to maintain its independence regardless of whether or not we feel they deserve to do so.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 08, 2022, 10:46:44 AM
"Most SUVs" aren't even SUVs. 

They're tall cars. Or, "crossovers", in the current lexicon. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 08, 2022, 10:49:13 AM
glorified minivans
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 11:02:04 AM
glorified minivans
True. But we are not talking about the 98% of SUVs.

We are talking about this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ANbhV6j05ys

A car I own( mine has an additional 100+ HP).  I hauled myself and 3 buds around, and 4 sets of clubs in it comfortably 2 weekends ago. But it can do this ( video).  Few cars, that are not in the “ exotic/ outrageous price” category can even come close. These are true, high performance SUVs   

In fact- they are far more capable then most drivers can come close to handling. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2022, 11:24:12 AM
True. But we are not talking about the 98% of SUVs.

We are talking about this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ANbhV6j05ys

A car I own( mine has an additional 100+ HP).  I hauled myself and 3 buds around, and 4 sets of clubs in it comfortably 2 weekends ago. But it can do this ( video).  Few cars, that are not in the “ exotic/ outrageous price” category can even come close. These are true, high performance SUVs   

In fact- they are far more capable then most drivers can come close to handling. 
Where do I find something like this for the GLE 63? That's what we are honed in on.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 11:33:15 AM
https://autoadvert.eu/video/642023708-mercedes-gle-63-amg-track-one-take

Here you go.  Badass car!!!  Not sure if your going for AMG edition. 

Nobody in their right mind will call you a overhyped minivan lol. I drove this car and it is so sick!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2022, 11:34:59 AM
Definitely AMG. Thanks.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 08, 2022, 11:36:44 AM
You want an AMG?  Here's an AMG:

(https://i.imgur.com/q1JDk2S.jpg)


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 11:42:00 AM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YVGWBL7gdEM

Another.  Normal roads.  Listen to that Bi-turbo.   Damn!!

If and when you get one of these I definitely want some pics and videos
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 08, 2022, 12:30:44 PM
In fact- they are far more capable then most drivers can come close to handling. 
most drivers can't push this thing to it's limit

(https://consumerguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/94103331991106.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 08, 2022, 12:33:58 PM
I definitely pushed THIS to its limit:

(https://i.imgur.com/WYGzh7t.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2022, 12:34:32 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/MYjioDw.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 08, 2022, 12:49:08 PM
I definitely pushed THIS to its limit:

(https://i.imgur.com/WYGzh7t.png)

you're better than most
most would pee themselves pushing that to the limit
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 08, 2022, 12:56:14 PM
Its limit was about 65 so no pee necessary.  It did wobble and shake a lot....

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 01:38:14 PM
I used to pass kids on fancy 18 speed bikes pedaling slow in one gear, they apparently had no clue how to shift.

Now I see folks in Beemers driving like they would a Malibu.  Granted, I don't drive my GTI crazy all the time either.

A few years back, BMW in Cincy had some gig where you could drive any of about 7 cars lined up,  one was an X5 with the V8, it certainly was fast,  They call it a "Sports Activity Vehicle" and I'd bet 90% of owners drive it like they would a regular SUV with the occasional spurt off the line.

I'm more of an M2 kind of guy anyway.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 08, 2022, 02:02:51 PM
you're better than most
most would pee themselves pushing that to the limit
It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than to drive a fast car slow...

You learn a LOT more about what it means to drive at the limits of traction if you have relatively low limits. Everything happens slowly and you learn how to stay at the edge and have time to recover when you push it a little too much. If you're driving a supercar and exceed its limits, well, hope you have a good life insurance policy. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 02:08:03 PM
After we went in a little hot and missed the turn-in point, the CT4-V Blackwing (https://www.caranddriver.com/cadillac/ct4-v-blackwing) went into a lurid slide down the hill that ended in the grass, where a beefy right-front suspension member folded like a taco. The damage was more than the Cadillac engineers on site could rectify. So a call was made to GM headquarters, and a replacement CT4-V Blackwing was on a truck headed for Alton within a few hours.

I'm sure these drivers are really good, and they bent this car.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 08, 2022, 02:11:32 PM
It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than to drive a fast car slow...

You learn a LOT more about what it means to drive at the limits of traction if you have relatively low limits. Everything happens slowly and you learn how to stay at the edge and have time to recover when you push it a little too much. If you're driving a supercar and exceed its limits, well, hope you have a good life insurance policy.
My brother learned a similar concept in a Fiero he owns.  As a mid-engine car the Fiero has very good weight balance so it is very good on a curve (like an on-ramp, for example) but the problem is that if you DO start to lose it, it is VERY difficult to recover.  My Z28 is obviously way out of balance so you see a lot of oversteer if you push it but it is easy to get it back by simply letting off the gas.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 02:31:17 PM
Porsche 911 used to be really bad with this, once you lost them the tail would come around and you were done, over steer.  American cars were designed to plow if you got too hot in a corner.  I read the new Corvette has a lot of stability control on it to try and keep this from biting unwary drivers.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 08, 2022, 02:35:09 PM
Porsche 911 used to be really bad with this, once you lost them the tail would come around and you were done, over steer.  American cars were designed to plow if you got too hot in a corner.  I read the new Corvette has a lot of stability control on it to try and keep this from biting unwary drivers.
I wondered about that particularly for a brand like Corvette that has been around for almost 70 years and has very high brand loyalty.  Basically every Corvette after the initial goofy I6 version in 1953 and 1954 up until this new mid-engined beast has had a similar weight balance/oversteer issue as my Z28.  Now all of a sudden guys who may have been driving Corvettes for a REALLY long time aren't going to have that "warning" anymore.  They'll be able to go a lot further before they have an issue, but once the issue starts they will not be able to just let off the gas to correct it anymore.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 02:40:59 PM
2020 Audi RS Q8 at Lightning Lap 2022 (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a38965998/2020-audi-rs-q8-lightning-lap/?utm_source=facebook&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR0rELEOleZVmoX8_5NUm25oUZQLCn1LNmHfRZA1EgUpPv-nTItIKakqbYM)


Class: LL3 | Base: $123,695 | As Tested: $138,340
Power and Weight:
591 hp • 5489 lb • 9.3 lb/hp
Tires:
Continental SportContact 6, 295/35ZR-23 (108Y) AO

No one gets excited about SUVs at Lightning Lap. They're too heavy, too tall, too big, too powerful for their own good. But there is real joy in seeing an elephant run free and then try to stop, probably.

On the back of a 591-hp version of the same twin-turbo 4.0-liter V-8 found in the Porsche Cayenne and Lamborghini Urus, Audi's 5489-pound RS Q8 (https://www.caranddriver.com/audi/rs-q8), the heaviest vehicle we've ever lapped, charged its way up to 144.1 mph on the front straight.

Admittedly, it is exciting to reel in the energy of an RS Q8 barreling toward Turn 1. The 17.3-inch carbon-ceramic rotors clamped by 10-piston calipers are the right hardware for the task. They're strong, although the brake pedal sinks deep enough to make you wonder whether this pachyderm will trample the tire wall. The mass and speed do overwork and then overheat the initially grippy Continental SportContact 6 rubber. But before these impressive tires get too hot, they put down a strong 1.00 g in Turn 1.


Once you get used to lapping VIR in what feels like an RS7 converted to standing-desk height, there's nothing threatening about the RS Q8's handling. Curbs are swallowed whole, the steering is truthful, and the understeer is predictable and easy to manage. Executing the perfect lap is tough in any car, and even though we're chasing just one hot lap, the course's 4.1-mile length means that it is necessary to think about the ever-degrading tires and brake temps. Push even a little too hard and you'll pay for it later in the lap, when the front tires chatter with understeer or the brakes require you to get on them earlier. As much as we tried, we couldn't get the RS Q8 under the 3:00 mark, but that time is still quicker than the sit-down RS7 that lapped here in 2014.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 02:43:40 PM
2022 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing at Lightning Lap 2022 (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a38966030/2022-cadillac-ct4-v-blackwing-lightning-lap/)

Lap Time: 2:55.6
Class: LL3 | Base: $67,515 | As Tested: $78,985
Power and Weight:
 472 hp • 3902 lb • 8.3 lb/hp
Tires:
 Michelin Pilot Sport 4S, F: 255/35ZR-18 (94Y) TPC R: 275/35ZR-18 (99Y) TPC

They say that when you summit a mountain, the journey is only halfway over. Reach the crest of the Climbing Esses and what follows is a blind left-hander with existential repercussions. Overdo it by a mere 0.1 mph and a very bad ending becomes a very real possibility.

After we went in a little hot and missed the turn-in point, the CT4-V Blackwing (https://www.caranddriver.com/cadillac/ct4-v-blackwing) went into a lurid slide down the hill that ended in the grass, where a beefy right-front suspension member folded like a taco. The damage was more than the Cadillac engineers on site could rectify. So a call was made to GM headquarters, and a replacement CT4-V Blackwing was on a truck headed for Alton within a few hours.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2022, 03:05:50 PM
Pace and Space

Despite its bulk, the 5568-pound GLE63 S thunders out of corners with authority, thanks to a standard limited-slip rear differential and a rear-biased all-wheel-drive system that never sends more than half the engine's torque to the front wheels. At the test track, our test car needed just 3.4 seconds to reach 60 mph and it blitzed the quarter-mile in 11.9 seconds at 117 mph, making it one of the quickest mid-sized high-performance SUVs (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g26339934/most-powerful-suvs/) we've evaluated. Compared to the last GLE63 S we tested (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15102008/2016-mercedes-amg-gle63-s-4matic-test-review/), which weighed 253 pounds less, the new model is 0.3-second quicker to 60 and 0.2-second and 2 mph quicker through the quarter. The new AMG's acceleration figures also just edge out those of the latest 541-hp Porsche Cayenne Turbo (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a28652553/2019-porsche-cayenne-turbo-by-the-numbers/), although the 670-hp Cayenne Turbo S E-Hybrid (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a28682139/2020-porsche-cayenne-turbo-s-e-hybrid-drive/) beats it by a couple of tenths to 60 mph and stomps it down the quarter-mile by nearly a half-second and 4 mph. We've yet to test the updated 2020 BMW X5 M (https://www.caranddriver.com/bmw/x5-m), which can pack up to 617 horsepower in Competition trim, but we expect it to make similar performance gains as the AMG and hew closely to the GLE63 S's times. We smell a comparison test brewing.



(https://i.imgur.com/y0zVCw8.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 08, 2022, 03:08:56 PM
Yeah, but not a single one of those "SUVs" have a third row seat anywhere near as comfortable as the Ford Flex, and their rear seat is probably nowhere near as roomy and spacious my second row. 

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 03:14:34 PM
I read every one of those fast lap write ups.  And watched every one of those POV vids from drivers seat.  

All great cars- super enjoyable in their own right.  

Don’t be fooled by the RSQ8 time- it FAST!  3:02 around VIR- are you kidding me! 

Of course the Blackwing Ct4 was faster.  The BMW M3 Competition 
Was faster than the CT4. 

But a professional or very skilled driver would beat us like a drum in the SUV even if we were in the Blackwing. And I would guess I would beat 95% of drivers in my Audi SUV around that track even the other driver was in the Blackwing 

In the Audi or BMW high-performance SUV I can kind of have my cake and eat it too.

If I just want to drive a performance car that’s even faster than my SUVs around a track I just take my other car.

https://streamable.com/k28dug
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 03:21:22 PM
Yeah, but not a single one of those "SUVs" have a third row seat anywhere near as comfortable as the Ford Flex, and their rear seat is probably nowhere near as roomy and spacious my second row.


Ha!  True.  I had that brand new hellcat Durango which had a beautiful third seat in it. And I love that thing it was crazy fast and decent handling as well. But right after I got it gas prices soared and that thing only got 10 or 11 miles to the gallon. So with 6000 miles on it I sold it for exactly what I paid for it brand new.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 08, 2022, 03:22:35 PM
Pace and Space

Despite its bulk, the 5568-pound GLE63 S thunders out of corners with authority, thanks to a standard limited-slip rear differential and a rear-biased all-wheel-drive system that never sends more than half the engine's torque to the front wheels. At the test track, our test car needed just 3.4 seconds to reach 60 mph and it blitzed the quarter-mile in 11.9 seconds at 117 mph, making it one of the quickest mid-sized high-performance SUVs (https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g26339934/most-powerful-suvs/) we've evaluated. Compared to the last GLE63 S we tested (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15102008/2016-mercedes-amg-gle63-s-4matic-test-review/), which weighed 253 pounds less, the new model is 0.3-second quicker to 60 and 0.2-second and 2 mph quicker through the quarter. The new AMG's acceleration figures also just edge out those of the latest 541-hp Porsche Cayenne Turbo (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a28652553/2019-porsche-cayenne-turbo-by-the-numbers/), although the 670-hp Cayenne Turbo S E-Hybrid (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a28682139/2020-porsche-cayenne-turbo-s-e-hybrid-drive/) beats it by a couple of tenths to 60 mph and stomps it down the quarter-mile by nearly a half-second and 4 mph. We've yet to test the updated 2020 BMW X5 M (https://www.caranddriver.com/bmw/x5-m), which can pack up to 617 horsepower in Competition trim, but we expect it to make similar performance gains as the AMG and hew closely to the GLE63 S's times. We smell a comparison test brewing.



(https://i.imgur.com/y0zVCw8.png)
🤤🤤
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 07:00:51 PM
On This Day in History > February 8, 1778:
Daniel Boone is captured by a British/Shawnee war party

"On February 8, 1778, Daniel Boone is captured by a British/Shawnee war party. Boone had forged a trail across the Cumberland Gap several years earlier and settled Fort Boonesborough, one of only three settlements at the time in what is now Kentucky.
In the winter of 1777-78, Boonesborough ran out of its vital salt supply. No supplies would come until spring, so the only way to get salt was by boiling water from a salt spring. The settlers decided they had to do this, in spite of the fact that sending out a large party of men to the nearest spring would leave the fort vulnerable to attack.
30 men set out for Blue Licks, which was about 60 miles away, where they gathered salt for several weeks. On February 8, Boone was out hunting when he was captured by a group of Indians. He discovered that over 100 Shawnee were on their way to attack Boonesborough, accompanied by two aides to the British Governor of Detroit. This was a British backed attack.
Boone knew the fort couldn't stand, so he played nice and told them that if his men were allowed to surrender peacefully and accompany them back to Detroit, in the spring Boone would lead an expedition back to Boonesborough where he would persuade the settlers to declare allegiance to King George. Chief Blackfish, the Shawnee leader, agreed to this, not knowing that Boone was lying and trying to save the lives of his men and those back at the fort.
Boone persuaded the men to give themselves up, convincing them it was the only way to save their families. The Indians did not harm them, but did force them to "run the gauntlet," a form of punishment in which the prisoners were made to run through two lines of Indians who would strike them as hard as they could. The prisoners stayed with the Indians for months, pretending to be friendly, but hoping to escape all along. Boone was even adopted into the tribe as a son of Chief Blackfish.
Back at the fort, word arrived that the men had been captured. After several months of hearing nothing, they were given up for dead. Rebecca Boone, Daniel's wife, and her children moved back to North Carolina with many of the others. Meanwhile, one of the other captured men escaped and returned to the fort. He convinced them that Boone was collaborating with the British.
In June, the Shawnee decided to take revenge on Boonesborough for a failed attempt to capture Donelly's Fort. Boone escaped to warn them, traveling 160 miles across the wilderness in 4 days. He was held in suspicion at first because the settlers believed he had colluded with the British, but he was able to convince them a war party was coming.
The Great Siege of Boonesborough began on September 8 and lasted 12 days. Though the Indians made numerous attempts, they were unable to penetrate its defenses and finally gave up the attack. Daniel Boone was charged with aiding the British for his ruse, but after a court-martial examined the evidence, he was commended for his handling of the crisis, promoted to major in the Virginia militia and soon reunited with his family in North Carolina."
=AT3AmNNv9oxY2Vcr6XrslzWXcMhoPGZ-52UfZZxsWE8Nik4wXFpt7CmkTPM-5Y0scnbiz9vdrA2XzOzwmSiT_NifQHNE75XovCP6_LcYn5htBkTZx6-tlkD9NdOMtM2Dhf6E2h-JEZYIyBWPy1wAr8X1wmVt_NpYvH8nbS8quqscUdVavxyiXWnmZDy6jpFO_F3ZVlT9ZNdzaujwKnC_3wlnbyKFJS51"][color=var(--blue-link)]Revolutionary-War-and-Beyond.com (http://"https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2FRevolutionary-War-and-Beyond.com%2F%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR0PdtKRmTS67uQWOROyrllnJDvt5dZAnNg6ucRdT1-arSCePojBBon3AO0&h=AT0hEakAKqa1ZVUO2MqrKPl4t6e2UTxK5U3FElL0Qt3aQx7_HKhnIjMn4ScziUAR1YHqLddLC0FiOswQFcTpeMx8Q8AfJSvvE8UNXLUvTRqVtcgcJVS6yuUiURPHHu9OTA&__tn__=-UK-R&c[0)
[/url][/font][/font][/size][/color]

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2022, 07:23:55 PM
A Day in Your Life 2037: A Glimpse at the Automotive Near Future (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/features/day-in-life-2037-glimpse-into-automotive-future/?sm_id=organic_fb_MT_trueanthem&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=&utm_source=&fbclid=IwAR2Glnqphs6E1zSavU_K82DmLvcVNESVhgDuw0zBM5ukNtVgAL6B4hq0yOU)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 07:56:32 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/WMOttgn.jpg)

Any guesses?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 09, 2022, 08:44:49 AM
Yes I just finished reading Winston's War about a month ago,That looks to be taken even before Gallipoli.Talk about wrecking a perfectly good body.Winnie was way ahead of Kieth & Mick
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 08:59:48 AM
1895
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 12:29:23 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/dul8BFz.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 12:42:13 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/WgOXCXf.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2022, 03:05:24 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/fei3Bx4.png)

Within five years, Britain and Belgium would be at war with Germany and Bulgaria. Only five of the nine monarchies represented in the photo still exist today.

Standing, from left to right: King Haakon VII of Norway, Tsar Ferdinand of the Bulgarians, King Manuel II of Portugal and the Algarve, Kaiser Wilhelm II of Germany and Prussia, King George I of the Hellenes and King Albert I of the Belgians.
Seated, from left to right: King Alfonso XIII of Spain, King George V of the United Kingdom, and King Frederick VIII of Denmark.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 10, 2022, 02:46:02 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/rIOPBKR.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2022, 09:28:32 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/6CzDPKr.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2022, 09:30:15 AM
Unification of German States - Countries - Office of the Historian (https://history.state.gov/countries/issues/german-unification)

The first war of German unification was the 1862 Danish War, begun over the duchies of Schleswig and Holstein. Bismarck allied with Austria to fight the Danes in a war to protect the interests of Holstein, a member of the German Confederation.

The second war of German unification was the 1866 Austro-Prussian War, which settled the question of “smaller” versus “greater” Germany. This brief war (fought over the course of mere weeks) pitted Prussia and her allies against Austria and other German states. Prussia won and directly annexed some of the German states that had sided with Austria (such as Hanover and Nassau). In an act of leniency, Prussia allowed some of the larger Austrian allies to maintain their independence, such as Baden and Bavaria. In 1867 Bismarck created the North German Confederation, a union of the northern German states under the hegemony of Prussia. Several other German states joined, and the North German Confederation served as a model for the future German Empire.

The third and final act of German unification was the Franco-Prussian War of 1870-71, orchestrated by Bismarck to draw the western German states into alliance with the North German Confederation. With the French defeat, the German Empire was proclaimed in January 1871 in the Palace at Versailles, France. From this point forward, foreign policy of the German Empire was made in Berlin, with the German Kaiser (who was also the King of Prussia) accrediting ambassadors of foreign nations. Relations were severed when the U.S. declared war upon Imperial Germany in 1917.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 11, 2022, 09:38:40 AM
It's very interesting to me how the map of Europe has changed over the years.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2022, 09:41:42 AM
Animation: How the European Map Has Changed Over 2,400 Years (visualcapitalist.com) (https://www.visualcapitalist.com/2400-years-of-european-history/)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2022, 11:17:48 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/YhH8Fit.png)

Tenzing Norgay and Edmund Hillary drinking tea after their successful ascent of Mt. Everest in 1953.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2022, 11:48:32 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/L7SYiSF.png)

An aerial view of various aircraft lining the flight decks of the U.S. Navy aircraft carrier USS USS Independence (CV-62), top, and USS Midway (CV-41) moored beside each other at Naval Station Pearl Harbor, Hawaii (USA), on 23 August 1991. Midway was en route from Naval Station, Yokosuka, Japan, to Naval Air Station North Island, California (USA), where it was decommissioned on 11 April 1992. Independence travelled to Yokosuka to take over as the U.S. Navy's forward-based aircraft carrier.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2022, 11:51:32 AM


(https://i.imgur.com/jqmZ0ez.png)

An Unlikely Friendship: Jesse Owens (Gold medal winning American track star) and Lutz Long (German Olympian, Nazi soldier)
History is messy. Looking back it is easy to judge and dismiss individuals based on labels and affiliations. You’d probably be surprised to find that a German track star at the Berlin Olympics became friends with African American track star Jesse Owens despite the presence of angry, racist leader Adolf Hitler at the games.
Long publicly embraced Owens while American President Franklin D. Roosevelt didn’t send him a congratulatory telegram after his impressive wins.
Excerpt:
“It took a lot of courage for him to befriend me in front of Hitler,” Owens later said in an interview. “You can melt down all the medals and cups I have and they wouldn’t be a plating on the 24-karat friendship I felt for Lutz Long at that moment. Hitler must have gone crazy watching us embrace.”
After besting Long and taking home gold in the long jump, Owens was famously photographed saluting the American flag. Long stood behind him, offering the Nazi salute.
The two remained friends, keeping in contact as much of world plunged into war. Long was stationed with the German Army in North Africa before being killed in action on July 14, 1943, during the Allied invasion of Sicily. In his last letter to Owens, Long, seemingly aware of his impending fate wrote, “My heart tells me, if I be honest with you, that this is the last letter I shall ever write. If it is so, I ask you something. It is a something so very important to me. It is you go to Germany when this war done, someday find my Karl [Kai], and tell him about his father. Tell him, Jesse, what times were like when we not separated by war. I am saying—tell him how things can be between men on this earth.”
In 1951 Owens traveled to Germany to meet Long’s then 10-year-old son, Kai, fulfilling his promise to indeed tell the young boy how things could be. Owens eventually served as best man at Kai’s wedding, and the two families remain in contact to this day.”
Read the letter in the article. It is powerful. They were men of their times but didn’t let that keep them from being friends. If they could figure it out, we should be able to do the same.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 11, 2022, 12:26:28 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/L7SYiSF.png)

An aerial view of various aircraft lining the flight decks of the U.S. Navy aircraft carrier USS USS Independence (CV-62), top, and USS Midway (CV-41) moored beside each other at Naval Station Pearl Harbor, Hawaii (USA), on 23 August 1991. Midway was en route from Naval Station, Yokosuka, Japan, to Naval Air Station North Island, California (USA), where it was decommissioned on 11 April 1992. Independence travelled to Yokosuka to take over as the U.S. Navy's forward-based aircraft carrier.
The Midway and her sisters (Franklin D. Roosevelt and Coral Sea) were improvements on the WWII Essex Class Carriers.  The US planned 32 Essex Class carriers and completed a staggering 24 during and shortly after WWII.  The US planned six Midway Class Carriers and began construction on the three that were actually built in 1943 and 1944.  After that it became obvious that the US had more than enough carriers to defeat Japan so the others were cancelled before the war ended.  None of the Midways were commissioned in time to see service in WWII with Midway and FDR commissioned in 1945 just after the Japanese surrender and Coral Sea commissioned in 1947.  The Midways were substantially larger than the Essex Class:

A family friend in town was what the Navy calls a "Plank Owner" on the USS Midway.  He graduated from HS in 1945 just after the German Surrender and joined the Navy because he wanted to get involved and the war with Japan was mostly a Naval War.  When the war ended three months after he graduated from HS he was training as a tail-gunner in a torpedo plane and when he finished that he was posted to the first squadron of torpedo planes assigned to the brand new USS Midway (commissioned September 10, 1945).  Plank Owners are original crewmembers of a ship.  

Anyway, Roosevelt and Coral Sea were scrapped decades ago but Midway is now a Museum at San Diego.  Someday I'd like to visit.  It is the only Carrier-Museum Ship that is not an Essex Class (CV10 Yorktown at Charleston, CV11 Intrepid at NYC, CV12 Hornet at Alameda, CV16 Lexington at Corpus Christi)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2022, 12:30:49 PM
I visited the Midway in SD with my two kids, it was pretty interesting.  The angled flight deck was a huge innovation (British) and the Midway was retro fitted to have it.

(https://i.imgur.com/K3HzCif.png)

Photo taken just after commissioning.

On 28 June 1955, the ship sailed for Puget Sound Naval Shipyard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puget_Sound_Naval_Shipyard), where Midway underwent an extensive modernization program (SCB-110 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_Characteristics_Board), similar to SCB-125 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCB-125) for the Essex-class carriers). Midway received an enclosed hurricane bow (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_aircraft_carrier#Hurricane_bow), an aft deck-edge elevator, an angled flight deck (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_deck#Angled_flight_deck), and steam catapults, before finally returning to service on 30 September 1957.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Midway_(CV-41)#cite_note-tbg-3)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 11, 2022, 12:33:18 PM
I visited the Midway in SD with my two kids, it was pretty interesting.  The angled flight deck was a huge innovation (British) and the Midway was retro fitted to have it.

(https://i.imgur.com/K3HzCif.png)

Photo taken just after commissioning.

On 28 June 1955, the ship sailed for Puget Sound Naval Shipyard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puget_Sound_Naval_Shipyard), where Midway underwent an extensive modernization program (SCB-110 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_Characteristics_Board), similar to SCB-125 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCB-125) for the Essex-class carriers). Midway received an enclosed hurricane bow (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_aircraft_carrier#Hurricane_bow), an aft deck-edge elevator, an angled flight deck (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_deck#Angled_flight_deck), and steam catapults, before finally returning to service on 30 September 1957.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Midway_(CV-41)#cite_note-tbg-3)
I should have mentioned in my earlier post that the Midways were the last class of US Carrier to be designed and built without an angled deck.  All three had angled decks retrofitted onto them (as did many of the Essex Class) but it was a retrofit as opposed to a part of the original design as on all subsequent US Carriers.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2022, 12:40:59 PM
All subsequent fleet carriers, yes, not all US carriers, the LHA class at least looks like a carrier and can operate the F35.

(https://i.imgur.com/ToVlBsz.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2022, 01:09:59 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/euLw44q.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 11, 2022, 01:23:18 PM
All subsequent fleet carriers, yes, not all US carriers, the LHA class at least looks like a carrier and can operate the F35.

(https://i.imgur.com/ToVlBsz.jpg)
My brother shipped out on an LHA-class, the LHA-3 USS Belleau Wood (since decommissioned) back in the early 2000s when he was flying the CH-53E. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 11, 2022, 01:39:54 PM
All subsequent fleet carriers, yes, not all US carriers, the LHA class at least looks like a carrier and can operate the F35.
My brother shipped out on an LHA-class, the LHA-3 USS Belleau Wood (since decommissioned) back in the early 2000s when he was flying the CH-53E.
Thank your brother for his service.  

Those ships are an interesting sort-of hybrid. By WWII standards they'd be considered gigantic and obviously fleet carriers but compared to the Nimitz and Ford Classes they are quite small and operate as landing/amphibious support ships.  The aircraft they carry are designed to land troops and provide ground support.  That is obviously an important role but it is not the same role that the Nimitz and Ford Class ships fill.  Those ships are primarily tasked with providing air supremacy wherever they go.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2022, 01:49:40 PM
An LHA class can carry around 20 F35, but without catapults they can't launch full load.  There is continuing debate about building more of smaller carriers in the Navy, something around 70,000 tons, nuclear powered with one reactor.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2022, 03:10:28 PM
Work starts on environmentally ‘catastrophic’ Triangle Tower in Paris | Skyscrapers | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2022/feb/10/building-starts-on-catastrophic-triangle-tower-in-paris?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR0gX3HeNg_Y6pybkK6rM1UAQ1jF7t69aq1qLXMOHRBbLCpwU274EQlHXUc#Echobox=1644505383)

(https://i.imgur.com/u7HZ05F.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 12, 2022, 04:45:13 AM
167 years ago today in 1855, Russian soldiers have now been under siege for over 3 months in the city of Sevastopol on the Crimean Peninsula.
During the 19th century, one of the older superpowers of the world, the Ottoman Empire, began to fall apart. First in the 1820’s with the Greek Revolution and European powers intervening to liberate the Greek Isles that had been occupied for centuries. Then the backbone to Ottoman military power, the Janissaries Corps, was crushed and forced to disband after an uprising in 1826. Russia would then go to war and decisively defeat the Ottomans in 1829. But they chose to keep the frail empire alive, to not draw the ire of other European powers. Then in 1831, Egypt under the famous Muhammad Ali Pasha successfully went to war with the Ottomans for more territory.
Further adding instability in the Ottoman region, tensions between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches began to build amongst the European nations as both disputed their rights of pilgrimage to holy sites in Jerusalem.  The Russian government promoted the Eastern Orthodox, and the French government was the main advocate for Roman Catholics. Czar Nicholas of Russia did not want to go to war with any Christians and continually advocated for the partition of the Ottoman Empire for decades, but it fell on death ears. Britain and France put aside their bloody past and continued to diplomatically prevent the large Russian Empire from gaining territory at Ottoman expense.
In 1852, Czar Nicholas presented his plan to break apart the Ottoman Empire and remove the Turks from Europe: Russia was to gain Moldavia and Romania. Serbia and Bulgaria would become independent states and the Adriatic coast would go to Austria. Cyprus, Rhoades, and Egypt would go to Britain while Crete would be given to France. And Russia’s desire for the last few centuries would come to fruition with reestablishing Constantinople as a free Christian city under international protection. The war would begin between the Ottomans and Russia in 1853 as Russia easily destroyed their obsolete fleet and invaded the Balkans to put the city of Silistra under siege. France and Britain would shock the Russian Empire by being one of the only instances in history of Christian nations fighting in alliance with an Islamic one. As they declared war together against Russia in 1854. France and Britain rushed their fleet and armies to the region to go save the Ottoman Empire. 
Despite this setback for Russia, the Allied forces felt they would need to deal a more serious blow to Russian hegemony in the region and attacked Sevastopol, the base of the Russian Black Sea fleet on the Crimean Peninsula. The invasion and siege of Sevastopol would become an iconic example of military-leadership incompetence that led to a botched prolonged siege that cost 100,000’s of lives. After almost one year of siege, the city fell and with-it Russia’s military capabilities in the region.
The Crimean War highlights the romanticism of war from the Victorian Era, but it also showed the dark realities of warfare in a modernizing world. It was one of the first wars in human history to ever be photographed and reported on by modern newspapers in a daily fashion. The brief conflict cost almost one million lives, with the vast majority of soldiers being killed by disease. The political ramifications and alliances of the conflict wouldn’t last a decade after the war as the Ottoman Empire fell out of favor with the European powers and Russia regained much of its lost territory and influence in the region.
The war is a rather unknown event in Western history, however to this date the resistance and suffering of the Russian garrison at Sevastopol has been idolized and used in their national identity. There are an estimated 100,000-200,000 Russian soldiers buried in Crimea.
[Online References]
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/.../british/victorians/crimea_01.shtml (http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/victorians/crimea_01.shtml?fbclid=IwAR1vhFEXvMaYMISi9E2PMqkC3QT02UBYqiKtKNpJmi4PoQlyf2ZszI3NpWE) )
(https://www.britishbattles.com/crime.../siege-of-sevastopol/ (https://www.britishbattles.com/crimean-war/siege-of-sevastopol/?fbclid=IwAR3tF17PGw1TjeB0xBT30det7M0QaOJ_0_Mwbro4FR0CZvvNaAA-BXnhhcQ) )
(https://www.historyextra.com/.../your-60-second-guide-to.../ (https://www.historyextra.com/period/victorian/your-60-second-guide-to-the-crimean-war/?fbclid=IwAR2eH-SwZlJbbkxSvkwe_xr7n5oCCmYgAm25k4-McgLS2vY-q2h7IR1a_7A) )

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 12, 2022, 12:25:45 PM
Work starts on environmentally ‘catastrophic’ Triangle Tower in Paris | Skyscrapers | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2022/feb/10/building-starts-on-catastrophic-triangle-tower-in-paris?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR0gX3HeNg_Y6pybkK6rM1UAQ1jF7t69aq1qLXMOHRBbLCpwU274EQlHXUc#Echobox=1644505383)

(https://i.imgur.com/u7HZ05F.png)
It's also catastrophic to call a pyramid or triangular prism a triangle.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2022, 08:24:37 AM
Mordor?

(https://i.imgur.com/aldWvWb.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2022, 08:46:27 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Cv7YfbM.jpg)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2022, 08:46:34 AM
The Last Peacemaker was retired today in 1959: This gigantic airplane, a Convair B-36J-75-CF Peacemaker, serial number 52-2827, was the very last of the ten-engine strategic bombers built by the Convair Division of General Dynamics at Fort Worth, Texas. It was completed 1 July 1954. On 14 August, it was delivered to the Strategic Air Command, 92nd Bombardment Wing, Heavy, at Fairchild Air Force Base, Washington. In April 1957, 52-2827 was assigned to the 95th Bombardment Wing, Heavy, at Biggs Air Force Base, El Paso, Texas.

The last one built, 52-2827 was also the last operational B-36. On February 12, 1959, the B-36 touched down at Amon Carter Field at 2:55 p.m. The Peacemaker’s logbook was closed out with a total of 1,414 hours, 50 minutes, flight time.

After a ceremony attended by thousands, the bomber was officially retired. A bugler blew “Taps,” and then the Peacemaker was towed away.

It was put on display at Amon Carter Field. After decades of neglect, the bomber was placed in the care of the Pima Air and Space Museum at Tucson for restoration and display. 
See less


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 13, 2022, 10:22:18 AM
In 1876, a coach named Walter Camp, who is considered the “Father of American Football,” helped produce the first rules of American football. Among important changes were the introduction of line scrimmages and down-and-distance rules. Provided by FactRetriever.com
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 13, 2022, 11:45:01 AM
Too Bad Gearge Custer didn't form a football league with the 7th Cavalry that year. Outside of playing the Redskins
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 13, 2022, 12:04:15 PM
Fun Fact:

George Custer won the Congressional Medal of Honor

but did you know that he had a brother named Thomas

who won the CMH twice being the first double recipient
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2022, 12:28:43 PM
Fun fact, it's not really the CMoH, it's just the MoH.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 13, 2022, 12:42:59 PM
[img width=361.81 height=328]https://i.imgur.com/Cv7YfbM.jpg[/img]
Looks like a B36, known as "Six turning, four burning" due to having six piston engines and four jet engines but they had all kinds of mechanical problems so the crews adapted the slogan as necessary to something like

"Two turning, Three smoking, Two burning, and Three unaccounted for".
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 13, 2022, 12:48:33 PM
B-29 had all sorts of maintenance/mechanical problems also.Makes me wonder how many runs they really made at Hiroshima/Nagasaki. Would not be shocked if some of them splashed
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2022, 12:49:18 PM
Yup.  My French bud did his military service as flight engineer on a Constellation, which he described as the best three engine aircraft ever built.

(https://i.imgur.com/sw6OtSp.jpg)

There is a B-36 in the AF Museum in Dayton, OH, which is a place worthy of a long visit.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 13, 2022, 12:49:53 PM
B-29 had all sorts of maintenance/mechanical problems also.Makes me wonder how many runs they really made at Hiroshima/Nagasaki. Would not be shocked if some of them splashed
we only had two bombs at the time, so no.  A third was being completed.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 13, 2022, 01:10:43 PM
Oops, I see you already shared that
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 14, 2022, 04:05:56 PM
The 1967 Corvette Sting Ray Was One of the World's Best Cars (roadandtrack.com) (https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a39039046/967-corvette-sting-ray-was-one-of-the-worlds-best-cars/?utm_campaign=socialflowR%26T&utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3e-rBMBQQojY5ToOUnLY-c0ZEvw1DcNrHGWYjsrWlbDdXlwAcMJwBXdos)

Quality of assembly is lacking, how­ever, and the following items were amiss on our test car: sev­eral rattles; improper clutch adjustment; an air leak over the windshield; choke setting; sticky throttle linkage; and a fresh-air vent that wouldn’t shut off.

Such deficiencies in a modern car would be unheard of, I think.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 14, 2022, 04:27:34 PM
Tom Brady played until he was 44.  Satchel Paige almost played at 60.  September 25, 1965: At age 59, Satchel Paige relaxes in a rocking chair in the bullpen, preparing for the final game of his career by having a nurse rub liniment on his pitching arm. Satchel would go on to toss 3 scoreless innings in his final appearance.
(https://i.imgur.com/qgEPdlJ.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2022, 09:53:08 AM
Game Changer: The 1949 Oldsmobile Rocket V-8 | Mac's Motor City Garage (macsmotorcitygarage.com) (https://www.macsmotorcitygarage.com/game-changer-the-1949-oldsmobile-rocket-v-8/?fbclid=IwAR2uta-CraRPDJxlErPzNDqOMcCdGJcUErDlEmU0os9lbcbZVKt5B3u4ULM)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 15, 2022, 09:55:41 AM
I once had a boss that collected the Rockets

pretty cool
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 16, 2022, 07:41:58 AM
Remember the Maine!
☞Today in History - On today’s date 124 years ago, Tuesday, February 15, 1898, a tremendous explosion of unknown origin sank the battleship U.S.S. Maine in the harbor of Havana, Cuba, killing 266 of the 354 crew members -- eventually leading to a naval blockade of Cuba, & to the declaration of the 1898 Spanish-American War.
☞The sinking of the Maine incited United States citizens’ passions against Spain, & the rallying cry “Remember the Maine -- To Hell with Spain!” was heard throughout the land.
☞On April 20, 1898, U.S. President William McKinley (1843-1901) signed a resolution demanding that Spain withdraw from Cuba. In response, Spain broke off diplomatic relations with the United States on April 21. On the same day, the U.S. Navy began a blockade of Cuba. Spain declared war on April 23. On April 25, Congress declared that a state of war between the U.S. & Spain had existed since April 21, the day that the U.S. blockade of Cuba had begun.
☞Lyrics from the 1898 song “Remember the Maine.”
From North & South & East & West,
From city, farm, & plain,
Loud comes a cry will never rest,
For vengeance unto Spain.
☞The most popular song during the time of the Spanish American War was
“There’ll be a Hot Time in the Old Town To-night,” a Ragtime song composed in 1896, with music by Theodore August “Ted” Metz (1848-1936) & lyrics by Joe Hayden. Hot Time in the Old Town became the official adopted theme song of Teddy Roosevelt’s Rough Riders.
☞In the 1919 book “The Story of Our National Ballads,” author C. A. Browne states that: “The witchery of this tune was such, that during our brief war with Spain, the Spaniards in Cuba were quite convinced that our National Anthem was named There’ll be a Hot Time in the Old Town To-night. At all events, the frolicsome tones of this unpretentious popular song are the most intimately associated of any, with the already dimming recollections of that whirlwind campaign.”

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 16, 2022, 09:21:52 AM
The first Tour de France in 1903

(https://i.imgur.com/rbxNb1D.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 16, 2022, 10:03:40 AM
Remember the Maine!
The Spanish-American War is largely forgotten by most modern Americans.  I remember my dad telling me that when he was a boy (1940's) his family rented a cabin for a few weeks each summer on Lake Erie and the owner of the Cabin was a Spanish American War Veteran.  

Part of the reason that the war is so easily forgotten is that it was a ridiculous mismatch so it only lasted a few months.  However, it had far-reaching consequences.  When War was declared the Spanish Empire was still seen as one of Europe's and the World's major powers but Spain had been in decline for generations.  Meanwhile the US was seen as somewhat of an upstart power.  Realistically though the US had the World's Largest Economy and Spain was no match.  

In 10 weeks the US destroyed two Spanish Fleets (one in the Pacific, one in the Atlantic) and captured multiple Spanish Colonial possessions.  The Spanish sued for peace and the US acquired Cuba, Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Philippines.  

The War was essentially America's announcement to the World that we were a major power (and that Spain was not).  It had far-reaching consequences because the whole reason that Japan felt they needed to destroy the American Fleet in 1941 was that the resources they desired were South of the Philippines which meant that they would have to transport said resources past the US controlled Philippines.  They felt that they couldn't secure those supply lines without capturing the Philippines.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 16, 2022, 10:46:20 AM
Some background on the above regarding Spain and the US heading into the Spanish-American War:

Spain:
The Iberian Peninsula was almost fully occupied by the Muslims at one point and parts of it were held by the Muslims for nearly 800 years from the Umayyad Caliphate's landing at Gibraltar in 711 to Ferdinand and Isabella's unification of Spain and eviction of the last Muslims in 1492.  After that, of course, the Spanish crown financed Columbus' voyage and they ended up with substantial colonial possessions in the Western Hemisphere and the Pacific in large part simply because they had something of a "first mover" advantage over the other European nations.  Those colonial possessions brought substantial wealth to Spain in the form of gold and trade with their colonies and that made Spain a (if not "the") world power for a time.  

Later, however, as the UK, France, Germany, and the United States Industrialized the Spanish failed to keep up.  According to Wiki, by 1900 the World's largest Economies were:

Spain had been a major world power four about 400 years and they were still seen as one even though they didn't realistically have the economy to back it up.  

The US:
The US Economy surpassed the UK sometime in the 1870's and passed China and India to become the world's largest at about the same time.  However, at first the US wasn't actually as wealthy or industrialized as the UK.  Instead, the US was close in wealth/industrialization and much larger in population.  Based on economy the US should have been treated as a major power by no later than the 1870's but they weren't partially simply due to inertia.  Global leaders and diplomats simply didn't think of the US as a major power because the US hadn't been one.  

Additionally, not long before becoming the world's largest economy the US had fought a devastating Civil War.  This generally left the US in no mood for imperialistic adventurism.  Finally, the US was naturally isolated from the conflicts of the other major powers because they were all in Europe.  

The first major power that the US bumped up against was Spain simply because Cuba is 90 mi from Key West and the US Navy had a large presence in Key West even then.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 16, 2022, 10:50:58 AM
The Phillippine Insurrection which followed caused 4,400 US deaths of soldiers and Marines, fighting against mostly Muslim insurgents in an unpopular war in far off territory, also largely forgotten.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 16, 2022, 11:54:07 AM
The Phillippine Insurrection which followed caused 4,400 US deaths of soldiers and Marines, fighting against mostly Muslim insurgents in an unpopular war in far off territory, also largely forgotten.
Also the reason for the US switch to the M1911 .45 Caliber pistol.  Initially in the Philippines US soldiers with sidearms were carrying .38's but they discovered that a .38 just doesn't have enough stopping power.  A suicidal fanatic can absorb at least one and sometimes more than one .38 rounds and STILL keep charging.  The .45 fixed that problem.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 16, 2022, 06:53:00 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/7NRJvEO.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 17, 2022, 10:31:08 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/2Qc5iz7.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 17, 2022, 11:06:45 PM
Iowa man swims the English Channel, bikes 9,000 miles, and scales Mt. Everest to complete “World Triathlon”.

Adventurer Charlie Wittmack is preparing to return to his hometown in Iowa after recently completing a 10,000 mile journey that began last July. The 34-year-old Des Moines man completed his “World Triathlon” on Friday when he reached the summit of Mt. Everest.

Wittmack reach the peak solo after six days of climbing. Prior to the climb of Mt. Everest, Wittmack ran or hiked 950 miles, rode a bike 9,000 miles from France to Nepal and swam 200 miles from the source of the Thames River and across the English Channel.

Wittmack, is the only American to have climbed Mount Everest and swum the English Channel.


_________________________________________________ ______________________________

Charlie was a speaker at an industry event I attended a few years back

https://www.triathlete.com/culture/news/after-scaling-everest-iowa-man-completes-world-triathlon/ (https://www.triathlete.com/culture/news/after-scaling-everest-iowa-man-completes-world-triathlon/)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 18, 2022, 12:15:52 AM
Fearless you do all that looking for your ball.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 18, 2022, 07:22:45 AM
That guy should get to know his couch now, right?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2022, 07:44:05 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/uHdFs4r.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 19, 2022, 09:13:04 AM
Flashback photos: A look back at Atlanta railroads (ajc.com) (https://www.ajc.com/life/flashback-photos-a-look-back-at-atlanta-railroads/QBNTNVVZUBENLJKCENXWVMXSTY/?fbclid=IwAR1bNr-MJwm7naX99LX2pPSKOF8zAJhMiJYPzqz23WM3M2yQe9Ibf7uFgk4)

Some pretty neat old train photos.  Railroads built Atlanta, not waterways, which is unusual for a larger city.

In 7th grade, I took a train to DC and NYC as part of a school trip, I don't recall much of it.  Trains seem "romantic" in one sense, or two, I'm not sure they work very well today generally speaking in the US.  Americans will use a bus for a cheap trip instead of trains, usually.  And airfare isn't that much more.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 19, 2022, 09:19:35 AM
From 1957, predicted in about ten years:

(https://i.imgur.com/sJilrX2.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 19, 2022, 10:35:29 AM
Shoot, the future of Back To The Future 2 is now seven years' past and we still don't have the hoverboards and flying cars demonstrated in that movie.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 19, 2022, 03:31:03 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/pxJG1hq.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 19, 2022, 03:36:42 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/XBgdmsA.jpg)


"The fire from automatic weapons was coming from all over. You could've held up a cigarette and lit it on the stuff going by. I knew immediately we were in for one hell of a time."

Marines probably from the 25th Regiment, 4th Division rushing out of their landing craft for the landing on Yellow and Blue Beaches at Iwo Jima on D-day, 19 February 1945.
(note the LVT (Landing Craft Tracked) burning in right center.)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 19, 2022, 05:52:47 PM
Is that Call of Duty?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 19, 2022, 05:54:23 PM
Is that Call of Duty?
Are you referring to the Marines landing on Iwo Jima?

That would be my son's regiment, incidentally.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 19, 2022, 05:57:40 PM
I have no idea, just commenting on how the modern video games look like the real thing.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 19, 2022, 06:13:58 PM
I included the description of the photo underneath it.  It's real, not some civilian simulation.

I'm not sure I would have had the guts.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 19, 2022, 08:25:00 PM
probably didn't have the chance to have the guts

can't stay in the boat
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 08:12:04 AM
Every personal account I've read says the soldier (or Marines) do this stuff because their buddy next to them does it.

"With the Old Breed" is the best personal memoir I've found.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 20, 2022, 09:40:28 AM
Every personal account I've read says the soldier (or Marines) do this stuff because their buddy next to them does it.
Same here. We tend to think of WWII or Civil War soldiers fighting for/against Fascism or Slavery but most were not terribly ideological they just did it because the guy next to them did.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 09:52:23 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/E3B3LzL.jpg)

Parmentier Potatoes - French Potato Recipe | Greedy Gourmet (https://www.greedygourmet.com/recipes-by-national-cuisine/french/parmentier-potatoes/)

My wife fixes parmentier potatoes at times, I never knew the origins of the term.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 20, 2022, 10:49:30 AM
man the potato lobby is big
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 11:54:58 AM
On April 20, 1861, one day after learning Virginia had seceded from the Union, Lee resigned from the U.S. Army. Although he had hoped the Commonwealth would avoid secession, his first loyalty was to Virginia. He wrote that it was a great struggle "to separate myself from a service to which I have devoted all the best years of my life."
"My loyalty to Virginia ought to take precedence over that which is due the Federal Government...If Virginia stands by the old Union, so will I. But if she secedes...then I will follow my native state with my word, and if need be with my life...These are my principles, and I must follow them."
Lee was asked after the war if, in hindsight, he would have acted differently. He replied that he would have acted in the same manner: "I could have taken no other course without dishonor."



I find this an interesting dilemma if one considers the period.  Many viewed their loyalty as to the state over the country, "these united states".  On the other hand, he swore an oath to the US when he entered West Point.  I don't think he swore one to Virginia.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 12:28:21 PM
Shrimp and Grits: A History - Deep South Magazine (https://deepsouthmag.com/2014/10/01/shrimp-and-grits-a-history/)

Since then, shrimp and grits had remained a breakfast dish found mainly in the lowcountry marshes near the Southern coast. However, in 1982, when Bill Neal became a chef at Crook’s Corner (http://www.crookscorner.com/), a restaurant in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, he forever changed the status of shrimp and grits. Neal used a simple recipe of cheese grits fused with cheddar and parmesan as a base, and then topped it off with jumbo shrimp as well as mushrooms, bacon and a few other ingredients. After Craig Claiborne of The New York Times visited the restaurant and published Neal’s recipe (http://www.food.com/recipe/crooks-corner-shrimp-and-grits-90000) in 1985, the once humble dish started gaining widespread popularity.




Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 20, 2022, 12:37:25 PM
I like shrimp and grits a lot.  Best I've had were in New Orleans.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 12:47:24 PM
I had not seen these variations on the theme, now I'm interested in trying some, like with sauteed peppers and onions and maybe a red sauce.  Around here what I've seen is literally grits with some shrimp mixed in.  I have dined at Crook's Corner.  When I lived there it was a BBQ dive, so I took my wife when we visited a few years back, it had gone way upscale.  It's also really in Carrboro, NC, or on the line, but that doesn't sound as good.

My apartment was in Carrboro, literally across the tracks.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 12:50:23 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/E1jQ45P.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 01:49:31 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/eHrdT6Z.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 20, 2022, 02:39:18 PM
man the potato lobby is big
It is, and highly successful.  They're in a much better spot than the egg industry.
Chips, fries, hash browns......good example of diversifying.  Eggs have all of......themselves in one big breakfast basket.  Potatoes are everywhere and need to only keep the health nuts at bay.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 04:45:21 PM
It's all because of Parmentier.

This is pretty good BTW.

Hachis Parmentier (French Beef and Potato Casserole) • Curious Cuisiniere (https://www.curiouscuisiniere.com/hachis-parmentier/)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 05:11:17 PM
[color=var(--primary-text)]On November 3, 1911, Louis Chevrolet co-founded the famed “Chevrolet Motor Car Company” with Durant and two other investors, William Little and Dr. Edwin R. Campbell, on November 3, 1911.[/color]
[color=var(--primary-text)]However, when he and Durant disagreed over the car’s design, he sold Durant’s portion of the firm in 1915 and went on to form McLaughlin’s Company, which built Chevrolets in Canada.[/color]
(https://www.shutterbulky.com/what-made-louis-chevrolet-famous/?fbclid=IwAR1dYzFukdvRZuO28nNfIqW7oGPNnzh8oo4pJk4nsx62Bg5CsPIaEJucC8Q)[img width=680 height=354.938 alt=What made Louis Chevrolet famous? Amazing Inspirational story - ShutterBulky]https://external-atl3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/safe_image.php?d=AQEgduVw_LlP7lgT&w=500&h=261&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.shutterbulky.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2021%2F12%2FIn-1906-Louis-drove-a-Durracq-Christie-V8-to-119.7-mph..jpg&cfs=1&ext=jpg&_nc_oe=6f9c9&_nc_sid=06c271&ccb=3-5&gt=1&_nc_hash=AQEQu8OsY_TTa0mG[/img]
 (https://www.shutterbulky.com/what-made-louis-chevrolet-famous/?fbclid=IwAR1dYzFukdvRZuO28nNfIqW7oGPNnzh8oo4pJk4nsx62Bg5CsPIaEJucC8Q)
 (https://www.shutterbulky.com/what-made-louis-chevrolet-famous/?fbclid=IwAR1dYzFukdvRZuO28nNfIqW7oGPNnzh8oo4pJk4nsx62Bg5CsPIaEJucC8Q)

 (https://www.shutterbulky.com/what-made-louis-chevrolet-famous/?fbclid=IwAR0lDX4ljTxXgR6JNjGZlEel1EbTYfqFiXACshb4ATZ0EJ5lH1d3hXnfDR8)[color=var(--secondary-text)]SHUTTERBULKY.COM[/color][/font]
[color=var(--primary-text)]What made Louis Chevrolet famous? Amazing Inspirational story - ShutterBulky[/size][/color]
[color=var(--secondary-text)]Louis Chevrolet was born on December 25, 1878, in La Chaux-de-Fonds, Switzerland. Chevrolet's parents were Joseph Felician Chevrolet and Angelina Marie[/size][/color]

I always thought it ironic that two of GMs brands have obviously French names, and another is Indian.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 05:35:22 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/eTNqpqS.png)

Scientists closer to understanding domestication of corn | AGDAILY (https://www.agdaily.com/crops/scientists-closer-understanding-domestication-corn/?utm_source=FbMain&utm_medium=&utm_campaign=)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 20, 2022, 06:58:28 PM
The idea of a county declaring something as edible is asinine. 

We're animals.  We eat what's edible.  Thankfully, we're omnivores, so we have the entire nature's buffet to choose from.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 07:03:19 PM
We have this government entity called the FDA which basically decides what is edible, and not.  They can declare such things as say avocados as inedible if they are tainted.

Tomatoes once were viewed as toxic, and their leaves are in fact.  Some folks decided pork was not to be eaten.  

A lot of "Nature's buffet" is toxic.  Plenty of things in Nature are highly toxic.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2022, 07:13:10 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/UqYBZfX.png)

My first trip to NYC in 7th grade, I was surprised they had Coke there.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 20, 2022, 07:43:51 PM
A lot of "Nature's buffet" is toxic.  Plenty of things in Nature are highly toxic. 
Then don't eat that.  lol
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 20, 2022, 08:01:54 PM
some folks don't know any better

the FDA helps lend guidance
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 04:15:17 AM
When some people believe a food is toxic and it isn't, a government imprimatur can be useful in changing minds.  I infer many French didn't eat potatoes before Parmentier came along, I didn't know that.  He convinced government, apparently, to let folks know it was OK.  Individuals may not be able technically to make such judgments.

It may be more important to understand which wells are contaminated and provide unsafe drinking water etc.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 08:36:56 AM
The Making of a Louisiana Legend tells the story of the unit that was the origin of the famous name "Louisiana Tigers." Officially, the unit was Company B, of Wheat's Battalion. It became famous because of their flashy Zouave uniforms, their famous battalion commander, Major Roberdeau Wheat, and their heroics at First Battle of Manassas.

Their nickname, Tigers, became attached, first to the battalion, and then to all Louisiana troops serving in the Army of Northern Virginia. The men became so notorious for their antics in camp, they got blamed for a lot of things they didn't do, although they did plenty on their own to deserve their reputation. As fighters in battle they were unsurpassed. LSU Tigers are named after this regiment.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 21, 2022, 10:56:09 AM
The Statue of Liberty was meant to be unveiled in 1876 to celebrate America’s centennial, but construction costs and other governmental hinderances delayed it by almost 10 years.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 21, 2022, 11:04:03 AM
The Statue of Liberty was meant to be unveiled in 1876 to celebrate America’s centennial, but construction costs and other governmental hinderances delayed it by almost 10 years.
just hold on CD is checking this out
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 21, 2022, 11:38:13 AM

Because
When some people believe a food is toxic and it isn't, a government imprimatur can be useful in changing minds.  I infer many French didn't eat potatoes before Parmentier came along
I guess folks for years folks thought the same about tomatoes in this country
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 21, 2022, 11:39:12 AM
just hold on CD is checking this out
almost 10 years is curiously vague 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 11:41:43 AM
In 1885, Bartholdi completed the statue, which was disassembled, packed in more than 200 crates, and shipped to New York, arriving that June aboard the French frigate Isere. Over the next four months, workers reassembled the statue and mounted it on the pedestal; its height reached 305 feet (or 93 meters), including the pedestal. On October 28, 1886, President Grover Cleveland (https://www.history.com/topics/us-presidents/grover-cleveland) officially dedicated the Statue of Liberty in front of thousands of spectators.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 21, 2022, 11:43:48 AM
In 1885, Bartholdi completed the statue, which was disassembled, packed in more than 200 crates, and shipped to New York, arriving that June aboard the French frigate Isere. Over the next four months, workers reassembled the statue and mounted it on the pedestal; its height reached 305 feet (or 93 meters), including the pedestal. On October 28, 1886, President Grover Cleveland (https://www.history.com/topics/us-presidents/grover-cleveland) officially dedicated the Statue of Liberty in front of thousands of spectators.
told ya
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 21, 2022, 04:51:24 PM
BecauseI guess folks for years folks thought the same about tomatoes in this country
Tom Brady still does. Gisele doesn't let him eat nightshades. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 21, 2022, 06:11:07 PM
Chile peppers are part of the nightshade family, and I can't imagine a life without them.  Not worth it.  Not even for Giselle. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2022, 06:30:59 PM
The tomato plant itself is toxic, fairly high levels of oxalic acid.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 21, 2022, 08:41:26 PM
some folks don't know any better

the FDA helps lend guidance
This might be our problem.  
Too many Darwin Awarded people walking around that wouldn't be here if this was 4,000 years ago.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 21, 2022, 11:26:33 PM
4,000 years ago, no public education

waste of time and resources
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 22, 2022, 02:57:36 AM
Yep, be on the side against education. 
Brilliant.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 06:43:00 AM
This might be our problem. 
Too many Darwin Awarded people walking around that wouldn't be here if this was 4,000 years ago.
On a personal level, I can't tell if food has been tainted with shigella, or if some drug is laced with fentanyl, or if some deodorant contains benzene.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 06:47:36 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/4mFIkqq.png)

1948, and of course in CA they would claim BBQ burgers.  Huh.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 07:05:18 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/lkPgd2w.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 07:19:47 AM
Tomato History | A Brief History Lesson about the Tomato (tomato-cages.com) (https://www.tomato-cages.com/tomato-history.html)

"...most Europeans thought that the tomato was poisonous because of the way plates and flatware were made in the 1500's.

Rich people in that time used flatware made of pewter, which has a high-lead content. Foods high in acid, like tomatoes, would cause the lead to leech out into the food, resulting in lead poisoning and death. Poor people, who ate off of plates made of wood, did not have that problem, and hence did not have an aversion to tomatoes. This is essentially the reason why tomatoes were only eaten by poor people until the 1800's, especially Italians.

What changed in the 1800's? First, and most significantly, was the mass immigration from Europe to America and the traditional blending of cultures. Many Italian-Americans ate tomatoes and brought that food with them. But also, and perhaps equally as important, was the invention of pizza. There is no pizza without tomato sauce, and pizza was invented around Naples in the late 1880's. The story goes that it was created by one restaurateur in Naples to celebrate the visit of Queen Margarite, the first Italian monarch since Napoleon conquered Italy. The restaurateur made the pizza from three ingredients that represented the colors of the new Italian flag: red, white, and green. The red is the tomato sauce, the white was the mozzarella cheese, and the green was the basil topping. Hence, Pizza Margarite was born, and is still the standard for pizza. And what could have led more to the popularity of the tomato than pizza!"


An interesting aspect of tomato history is the classic debate: Is the Tomato a Fruit or Vegetable? I guess that depends on whom you are asking. By definition, a fruit is the edible plant structure of a mature ovary of a flowering plant, usually eaten raw; some are sweet like apples, but the ones that are not sweet such as tomatoes, cucumbers, peppers, etc. are commonly called vegetables. Botanists claim that a fruit is any fleshy material that covers a seed or seeds where as a horticulturists point of view would pose that the tomato is a vegetable plant. Until the late 1800's the tomato was classified as a fruit to avoid taxation, but this was changed after a Supreme Court ruling that the tomato is a vegetable and should be taxed accordingly.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 22, 2022, 10:16:28 AM
Yep, be on the side against education. 
Brilliant.
isn't education a form of anti-Darwinism?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 12:31:47 PM
I occasionally see all the ads on TV for "pills" and "creams" and leg wraps containing copper and realize how many of us are suckers.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 12:46:58 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/MNEUhzv.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 12:48:21 PM
2022:

(https://i.imgur.com/kdLoEPL.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 12:50:14 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/vxnzipL.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2022, 12:50:34 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/JpTNcJI.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 22, 2022, 12:59:14 PM
That had to be someone trolling for responses.They can install a big lift kit but couldn't figure out the Tire situation or ran out of cash
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 22, 2022, 04:30:19 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/2co4BIj.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 22, 2022, 09:12:01 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ccYOv49.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 22, 2022, 09:46:22 PM
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/fVKeJ1vGNfo/hqdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 23, 2022, 12:10:57 AM
He runs over even a turtle he'll wish he had a lift kit
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 08:57:21 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/CbAZ2Aa.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 24, 2022, 11:08:37 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/ccYOv49.jpg)
While I agree generally, in his defense most of what you have labeled "Odd, nonsensical lift" IS needed because those gargantuan tires wouldn't fit in the fenders.  The body lift is simply to get the clearance for the tires.  

Looking at the exposed drivetrain it looks like the lift was strictly a body lift as it appears that the engine is down with the tires not up with the body so it looks like all they did was put REALLY big tires on it and then move the body up enough to fit the tires.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 11:19:40 AM
You also get more spring travel with extra lift, which can be useful, of course.  Then you need lift to ensure the tires are clear of the body under a compressive load.

It's a silly vehicle to me.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 24, 2022, 11:57:04 AM
It's a silly vehicle to anyone, except perhaps the monster truck community.  That's why I posted it. :)

But the whole joke, is the deliberately undersized donut spare...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2022, 02:19:24 PM
Heh, I missed that entirely.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 24, 2022, 08:48:20 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/JpTNcJI.png)
this looks photshopped but, I've seen regular sized wheels and tires put on one one these "lifted" trucks to be able to get it into the paint shop or repair shop without a tall door.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MarqHusker on February 24, 2022, 08:58:13 PM
Upon our return from the 1996 Fiesta Bowl (62-24). 3 of us were in a 1990 Tercel or Corolla?  We left the rest of our party in Colorado Springs and had a flat near Castle Rock, CO.  We needed to get to Omaha that day.  We drove on a donut in 20 degree weather the entire 500mile route.   I can tell you we weren't obeying the speed limit.  50 miles and 45mph my ass.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 24, 2022, 09:04:32 PM
(https://cdn-0.amishamerica.com/images/amish-buggy.jpg?ezimgfmt=rs:407x303/rscb13/ng:webp/ngcb13)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 08:16:24 AM
The temp spares are actually pretty amazingly good.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 25, 2022, 09:11:13 AM
In the late 1960s and early 1970s, there was a futuristic and popular "UFO" village in the Wanli district of Taiwan. Most of the flying saucer houses have been abandoned, creating an eerie UFO graveyard.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 12:07:09 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Ovj2iR6.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 25, 2022, 12:15:26 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Ovj2iR6.png)
so now folks will get arrested for trying to hold up a toll booth
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 25, 2022, 03:44:40 PM
or shot
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 25, 2022, 04:30:00 PM
I assume this is from the 50s or 60s

how did this NOT become wildly popular?!?!?!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2022, 07:19:55 PM
The Chosin Frozen:

(https://i.imgur.com/aeAf18p.png)

During the Battle of Chosin Reservoir in 1950, U.S. Marines called for more "Tootsie Rolls" which was the code for 60mm mortar ammo. A radio operator was unfamiliar with the code, so the Marines instead received a large airdrop of the chewy candy. However, the Marines welcomed the treats because they needed a bit of an energy boost. They also found that Tootsie Rolls were useful for plugging bullet holes in their equipment. =AZWY1HcocvCRyTqXGV0wQ2R2Sb9RQswlL3jxx1QeDjc5Msy-9O7UyU0lipeHa-n8ylbbgkDFTmzrNV3O5_EaaJBsnub5wvw0x1JWdqQnzoGy2CGJiUNDLpVuqJxxB5dKtgovskN-PiuqMyOfIkEBFu86G56-H3xuA9YVe8SViz5ISr3yLfi7cempeerZ5NZZPuqM7Y6riWR5Z7-pGcTbK6Uu&__tn__=*NK*F"][color=var(--primary-text)]#nationaltootsierollday (http://"https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/nationaltootsierollday?__eep__=6&__cft__[0)[/iurl][/font][/size][/color]
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 27, 2022, 11:50:26 AM
Yellowstone National Park was established as the United States’ first national park in 1872. To celebrate its 150th year, National Geographic has published a series of photos captured over that time of what is often called America’s Wonderland.

https://petapixel.com/2022/02/25/see-150-years-of-yellowstone-national-park-in-photos/ (https://petapixel.com/2022/02/25/see-150-years-of-yellowstone-national-park-in-photos/)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 27, 2022, 04:35:23 PM
Yellowstone National Park was established as the United States’ first national park in 1872. To celebrate its 150th year, National Geographic has published a series of photos captured over that time of what is often called America’s Wonderland.

https://petapixel.com/2022/02/25/see-150-years-of-yellowstone-national-park-in-photos/ (https://petapixel.com/2022/02/25/see-150-years-of-yellowstone-national-park-in-photos/)
It is truly a beautiful place. I have a cousin who is a chef at Yellowstone Park Lodge. My wife and I visited him and the Park a few years ago (pre kids) and it is amazing. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2022, 04:40:53 PM
It is almost unbelievable such a place could exist in nature, I think, it's so varied and unique.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 27, 2022, 06:11:16 PM
I visited in June of 76

snowing so hard it was difficult to see old faithful going off
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 27, 2022, 06:56:51 PM
It is almost unbelievable such a place could exist in nature, I think, it's so varied and unique.
back in the 80s/90s History Channel had on the Docu themed REAL WEST with Kenny Rogers narrating.They did segments on the Mountain Men/Trappers/Exporers Lewis & Clark.Any way when they'd all return after a couple of years attempting to describe the wonders they saw to civilization - guysers,glaziers,waterfalls,mountains,valleys,meadows filled with massive buffalo,Elk,Grizzly Bears,cougars - all turrible beasts.They were panned as story tellers and bullshit artists
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 28, 2022, 12:26:19 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/eYNGA7A.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 28, 2022, 12:34:21 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/eYNGA7A.png)
Boomers, those things are scary aren't they?  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 28, 2022, 12:37:02 PM
Boomers, those things are scary aren't they? 
I don't have a source for this offhand but I remember reading that just one of the missiles aboard those has more firepower than all of the bombs that have ever been dropped in all of the wars that have ever been fought including the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 28, 2022, 12:39:42 PM
The new boomers with Trident missiles can carry up to ten warheads, each of which would be 10-15x more powerful than Hiroshima's A bomb.

The Ohio Class carries 24 of those, with a 7,000 nm range.  If they ever are used, the next war will be fought with rocks and sticks.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 28, 2022, 12:48:44 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/eYNGA7A.png)
Man that's a lot of paint
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 28, 2022, 04:59:46 PM
The American concept of impeachment has its origins in Ancient Rome. Only senators could be impeached, but not the emperor. This lead to a number of assassinations—a potentially bloody situation the Founding Fathers hoped to avoid.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 28, 2022, 06:01:33 PM
Meet the General Belgrano: The Only Ship Ever Sunk by a Nuclear Submarine | The National Interest (https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/meet-general-belgrano-only-ship-ever-sunk-nuclear-submarine-188481)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on February 28, 2022, 06:41:34 PM
Meet the General Belgrano: The Only Ship Ever Sunk by a Nuclear Submarine | The National Interest (https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/meet-general-belgrano-only-ship-ever-sunk-nuclear-submarine-188481)
I remember at the time that there was a lot of pushback over this as some military experts thought it was not necessary

to sink that ship because it posed no threat
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 28, 2022, 08:36:51 PM
it was a live target
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 01, 2022, 12:04:56 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/eYNGA7A.png)
That is one expensive egg carton.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2022, 09:21:12 AM
The current boomers of course are far more expensive, and deadly.  If they ever were used ....

We have ten Ohio Class submarines with enormous destructive power, one of them has more than most nuclear nations.  The Russians of course have their rough equivalents, probably not as quiet and with a more restricted patrol area.  One idea they had was to keep them under the Arctic ice cap and they surface to fire.

I don't know what kind of shape they are in today.

A full nuclear exchange could possibly eradicate nearly all of humanity.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 01, 2022, 09:40:33 AM
At least we captured the Red October when that Scottish Russian(?) guy defected.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2022, 09:43:23 AM
I was musing about that movie last night, and the book, which is far far better and more realilstic.  Clancy was so mad about how they messed up his books, he managed to prevent anyone from making any more movies from his books after the three they made.  The movies were decent on their on, but if you read the books ....


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on March 01, 2022, 10:18:34 AM
I was musing about that movie last night, and the book, which is far far better and more realilstic.  Clancy was so mad about how they messed up his books, he managed to prevent anyone from making any more movies from his books after the three they made.  The movies were decent on their on, but if you read the books ....



Ive read every one and still marvel at how much research he did
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2022, 06:14:38 PM
On This Day in History > March 1, 1781:
The Articles of Confederation are ratified after nearly four years

"On March 1, 1781, the Articles of Confederation are finally ratified. The Articles were signed by Congress and sent to the individual states for ratification on November 15, 1777, after 16 months of debate. Bickering over land claims between Virginia and Maryland delayed final ratification for almost four more years. Maryland finally approved the Articles on March 1, 1781, affirming the Articles as the outline of the official government of the United States. The nation was guided by the Articles of Confederation until the implementation of the current U.S. Constitution in 1789.
The critical distinction between the Articles of Confederation and the U.S. Constitution —the primacy of the states under the Articles—is best understood by comparing the following lines.
The Articles of Confederation begin:
“To all to whom these Present shall come, we the undersigned Delegates of the States”
By contrast, the Constitution begins:
“We the People of the United States ... do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
The predominance of the states under the Articles of Confederation is made even more explicit by the claims of Article II:
“Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this Confederation expressly delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled.”
Less than five years after the ratification of the Articles of Confederation, enough leading Americans decided that the system was inadequate to the task of governance that they peacefully overthrew their second government in just over 20 years. The difference between a collection of sovereign states forming a confederation and a federal government created by a sovereign people lay at the heart of debate as the new American people decided what form their government would take.
Between 1776 and 1787, Americans went from living under a sovereign king, to living in sovereign states, to becoming a sovereign people. That transformation defined the American Revolution."

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 02, 2022, 08:03:45 AM
126 years ago today in 1896, Ethiopians led by their Emperor shock the modernizing world by defeating a modern Italian army in the Battle of Adwa during the First Italo-Ethiopian War.
Towards the end of the 1800’s, Italy became a unified Kingdom for the first time in centuries. The new kingdom was eager for expansion and colonies to match their rivals. For centuries the Horn of Africa was under the hegemony of Egypt, however in 1884 Egypt collapsed and a power vacuum occurred in the region. The Kingdom of Italy jumped on the opportunity and sent troops to the region and skirmished with the Ethiopians for years until the British intervened to mediate between both sides.
Tensions began to arise again in 1894 as Ethiopians grew tired of their Italian neighbors. Many of the tribes united around Emperor Menelik II who was putting his efforts to unite the Ethiopian provinces against the Italian colonizers. By 1895 a full blown conflict broke out and the Italians began achieving victories and pushing further into rebellious Ethiopian territory. Their early successes would make them feel like the Ethiopians were a push over opponent. But by late 1895 both sides were stalemated and supplies were running low for both armies. The Italian governor of their territory Oreste Baratieri was pressured by the Italian government to attack Emperor Menelik’s massive 100,000+ force that was poorly supplied.
On the late night of February 29th and early morning of March 1st, 17,000 Italians moved towards the city of Adwa where Menelik’s army was camped. The Ethiopians were alerted of the Italian advance and deployed their army. The Ethiopians had plenty of outdated firearms, as well as some modern Russian artillery and rifles that came with a group of Russian advisers helping them against the Italians. After both armies fought hard for several hours, the Ethiopians would utilize their massive numbers and send in their reserves that outnumbered the Italian army. The Italians would be overran and the battle is famous for two of their generals being killed in attempts to hopelessly rally their routing forces.
The defeat at Adwa shocked Italy and the Kingdom would desire revenge of the embarrassing defeat for decades to follow. With Italian Nationalism revitalized by dictator Benito Mussolini in the 20th century,  Italy would return in 1935 with airplanes and tanks to crush the Ethiopians with impunity while the rest of the world watched before World War 2. However the Victory at Adwa in 1896 remains a public holiday and is one of the most celebrated events in Ethiopian history.
[Online References]
(=AT1vTnUi6dE69Zaw8YhgfBeaATI88t-bUukW_dE3CHcil8grQ66POwY0NzHpDAvzDOe-lxsz9bM7LOC7VCZWIGQxGdVxtQtsPlV7J7VuxNbRe_6fm-x-Ta0yO2IDJqDUSN_Wbq6CZC2Sklc1sAn9U1xHNzwAtCG07ijXzmRLMd0rkUczsyLF_bDq1tvOaDFPjViXsIs7rWVMlOJ64lyhiZoAj0X7hdWjRL4"][color=var(--blue-link)]https://origins.osu.edu/review/when-ethiopia-stunned-world (http://"https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Forigins.osu.edu%2Freview%2Fwhen-ethiopia-stunned-world%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR14KEBnVq-_xOalTqN0OxJrMgTS2MKmILMOgJMLZXxUqAbgprwXgJhutko&h=AT2MhkcabzXUZKB40MDkL6vb6b62oyWONSa5J8g3ARbQ65soWhorh6MwIFsChdlyD4xI1Jf57MkYozQ3mdSd31n0jllh-DKYyy5vh-v4cWXxvDm0mDzCZMLn7QO4xU-VsA&__tn__=-UK-R&c[0)[/url] )[/font][/font][/size][/color]
(=AT1vTnUi6dE69Zaw8YhgfBeaATI88t-bUukW_dE3CHcil8grQ66POwY0NzHpDAvzDOe-lxsz9bM7LOC7VCZWIGQxGdVxtQtsPlV7J7VuxNbRe_6fm-x-Ta0yO2IDJqDUSN_Wbq6CZC2Sklc1sAn9U1xHNzwAtCG07ijXzmRLMd0rkUczsyLF_bDq1tvOaDFPjViXsIs7rWVMlOJ64lyhiZoAj0X7hdWjRL4"][color=var(--blue-link)]https://www.washington.edu/.../larger-than-life.../ (http://"https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washington.edu%2Fnews%2F2012%2F01%2F05%2Flarger-than-life-characters-intrigue-part-of-history-behind-battle-of-adwa%2F%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR0vJDKBTAFRTIknVppchz4qJQWpKzOCiHkIS2LSYrybRQS8phv-Ps8YMUk&h=AT2EMBFRit1NmMI7cztm9lzpKVZWIH-AViKCDazOFgaxu0qC2hJmb2Eh6z3qszMVReINwaL2Hl-qFCW54T5fjWHUgtxrWbscU-oji7qzGvjLXY9BhSFnoEWYgn2uP1HQbw&__tn__=-UK-R&c[0)[/url] )[/font][/font][/size][/color]
(=AT1vTnUi6dE69Zaw8YhgfBeaATI88t-bUukW_dE3CHcil8grQ66POwY0NzHpDAvzDOe-lxsz9bM7LOC7VCZWIGQxGdVxtQtsPlV7J7VuxNbRe_6fm-x-Ta0yO2IDJqDUSN_Wbq6CZC2Sklc1sAn9U1xHNzwAtCG07ijXzmRLMd0rkUczsyLF_bDq1tvOaDFPjViXsIs7rWVMlOJ64lyhiZoAj0X7hdWjRL4"][color=var(--blue-link)]https://www.britannica.com/event/Battle-of-Adwa (http://"https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.britannica.com%2Fevent%2FBattle-of-Adwa%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR0SLnhz-EQU9k5FCf_p9LCiLSCYjrQSy7OC5yKE3X0Y3z4VSv2LxlCHoiM&h=AT0FEEoivYg7KApVR7hOV9edbnZ_sP4LKuJ-8Gcn2QMDJHfx8xpT7BGw2n0I3rVnbuZhAQUwVMRghkh4vBPf2fEv0GHJZaNt1LNN54JeXzcHQdq4hWV6rdGYHvqvZbW1Ng&__tn__=-UK-R&c[0)[/url] )[/font][/font][/size][/color]

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 02, 2022, 09:25:13 AM
https://youtu.be/3tNft7sv-Zo?t=2396

Watched a WW1 Docu the last couple minutes definitely worth a listen.On the advances that were made for prosthetics and pretty good job on masks for facial disfigurements and such. But they touched on the psychological aspects of course were very hard to address
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 02, 2022, 11:57:37 AM
Why the number 137 is one of the greatest mysteries in physics - Big Think (https://bigthink.com/hard-science/number-137-physics/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR063eCqdC4jRQ2ixi_0LBpjOvjoWGyyhG1PiH19RzdNankV2mBpcC531_E#Echobox=1646087799)

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.9)]Does the Universe around us have a fundamental structure that can be glimpsed through special numbers?[/color]
[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.9)]The brilliant physicist Richard Feynman (1918-1988) famously thought so, [color=rgba(229,84,68,var(--tw-text-opacity))]saying[/color] (http://www.secretsinplainsight.com/why-137/) there is a number that all theoretical physicists of worth should “worry about”. He called it “one of the greatest damn mysteries of physics: a magic number that comes to us with no understanding by man”.[/font][/size][/color]
[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.9)]That magic number, called the fine structure constant, is a fundamental constant, with a value which nearly equals 1/137. Or 1/137.03599913, to be precise. It is denoted by the Greek letter alpha – α.[/color]


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 02, 2022, 12:14:37 PM
Ukrainians are selling used Russian Tanks on eBay : ukraine (reddit.com) (https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t51m3n/ukrainians_are_selling_used_russian_tanks_on_ebay/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 11:42:23 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/9NUsRks.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 06:46:25 PM
Times were hard for tobacco farmers in the late 19th Century. Crop prices were falling, partly due to deflation and partly due to the rise of dominant railroad and tobacco manufacturing monopolies. A growing preference for cigarettes over chewing tobacco had rapidly destroyed most of the small plug manufacturers. Then, in 1890 James Duke, who already controlled over half of the cigarette market, bought out most of his remaining competitors and consolidated them into a single entity—the American Tobacco Company—giving him control of over 90% of the market—a virtual monopoly, which allowed him to dictate prices to both farmers and consumers. Meanwhile, elsewhere in the country, cotton and grain farmers in the South and Midwest were being squeezed by the same kind of monetary and monopolistic pressures.
Farmers cried foul and gathered into an opposition movement. Across the country they organized into “Farmer’s Alliances,” demanding an increased money supply, lower interest rates, and regulation of the monopolies, known at the time as “trusts.” Just as they were doing all across the South and Midwest, in August 1890, Farmers Alliance delegates from across Virginia gathered at a convention in Lynchburg, where they adopted a lofty “Declaration of Principles,” one of which called for “the destruction of all trusts and the withdrawal of all favors in the shape of subsidies and bounties.” Meanwhile, the Alliances were creating their own newspapers, magazines, and co-operative warehouses.
By 1891, however, the Alliance movement was dying out, as the failure to break into the political mainstream had caused enthusiasm to wane and falling commodity prices had made it increasingly difficult for farmers to pay for their subscriptions to the cooperatives, and the farmer-owned warehouses began to close.
But farmers weren’t ready to give up their fight and many channeled the energy of the Alliances into the creation of a new political party—the People’s Party—which emerged dramatically onto the national scene in the election of 1892, a story for another day.
The image is a People’s Party cartoon from 1892, depicting Farmers Alliances from across the country uniting and tossing “old grudges,” “sectional strife” and “hate” into the “Bloody Chasm.”

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 03, 2022, 09:01:52 PM
There may be a magic number in college football.

7.9

It's sort of the cutoff for having a good-to-great team, for yards per pass attempt.  Regardless of the type of offense a team has, if you're below that, your team has a near-zero chance at being any good.

And I haven't recorded this, but it's also the mode for good-to-great teams by that measure.  Honestly, I believe it's a tipping point.

But I could be wrong.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2022, 09:24:17 PM
Which teams were under 7.9 of note?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 03, 2022, 10:12:22 PM
Pitt and Whipple and small hands Picket were over 8.6 last season

of course the Huskers with Martinez were 9.35
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2022, 07:38:27 AM
It would be interesting to plot pass yard per attempt versus wins for P5s and see if there is a correlation (there should be some).

UGA had 27 passes per game and 252 yards.  Bennett had 287 attempts and 2,862 yards, a pretty solid figure.  Daniels was 94 for 722, not as good.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2022, 11:56:38 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/CWSzPtm.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2022, 04:33:05 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/glBHywP.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 05, 2022, 06:00:03 PM
Which teams were under 7.9 of note?
None....that's my point.


None off the top of my head.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 06, 2022, 07:56:01 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/glBHywP.png)
Wonder how many times there were unfortunate belly landings? Tough spot to be in regardless specially on the long distance runs before the Mustang started chaperoning them
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 06, 2022, 08:03:01 AM
might want to put on the parachute before climbing in
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 06, 2022, 08:15:01 AM
The forefather of the modern-day park ranger, Harry Yount, Yellowstone’s first gamekeeper, was stationed at Tower-Roosevelt Junction through the Lamar Valley in 1880 to help stop the illegal slaughter of animals.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 06, 2022, 08:52:13 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/glBHywP.png)
Whoever designed that was pretty confident he'd never have to be in it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 06, 2022, 03:06:17 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/FBIN727.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 06, 2022, 03:07:55 PM
Weird recent history:
both Barry Sanders' and Emmitt Smith's sons went to Stanford.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 06, 2022, 03:10:13 PM
Somewhere around 2004, the US Patent Office dispensed with its paper records and went electronic.  I'm told there was a major run on the paper copies of famous inventions. It used to be one could enter the "stacks" and search through these old patents paper by paper.

They opened it up one day and folks who worked doing this for a living ran for the original copies of the famous ones, no doubt some of mine,  Ha.

I dumped all my patent plaques on my daughter when we moved, poor thing, and now she's trying to get rid of stuff for her move.  They are nice looking walnut plaques.  I told her to trash them.  Maybe the walnut would be nice for some wood worker.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 07, 2022, 08:25:05 AM
The oldest death sentence recorded is found in ancient Egypt. Found in the Amherst papyri, a teenaged male in 1500 B.C. is sentenced to kill himself by either poison or stabbing for practicing magic.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 07, 2022, 10:04:08 AM
Just because you can pull a quarter from someone's ear doesn't mean you should.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 07, 2022, 10:27:30 AM
Wonder how many times there were unfortunate belly landings? Tough spot to be in regardless specially on the long distance runs before the Mustang started chaperoning them
I've read of several incredibly sad cases in which the landing gear was unable to be deployed due to battle damage and an injured but still living gunner in one of those blisters was unable to get himself out.  Those guys unfortunately died in the belly landings.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 12, 2022, 10:24:41 AM
Historic Photographs

A German officer and an NCO wearing portable sound locating apparatae to detect enemy aircraft (this was a type of early radar). Western Front, 1917.


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/275458025_2063121700528236_7899499507249105352_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=E7CFuZ12XcIAX9mLBkv&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9-n8nYYmz3WVSLCjB9qlHSt8ObVPo844ChgbwxTNyfaA&oe=6232A8A6)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on March 12, 2022, 10:40:55 AM
reminds me of this

(https://i.imgur.com/31FvhmT.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 12, 2022, 11:59:44 AM
Historic Photographs

A German officer and an NCO wearing portable sound locating apparatae to detect enemy aircraft (this was a type of early radar). Western Front, 1917.


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/275458025_2063121700528236_7899499507249105352_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=E7CFuZ12XcIAX9mLBkv&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9-n8nYYmz3WVSLCjB9qlHSt8ObVPo844ChgbwxTNyfaA&oe=6232A8A6)
Looks like an album cover, lol.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 12, 2022, 03:13:24 PM
Historic Photographs

A construction worker making preparations for the removal of the original Statue of Liberty torch in 1985. The old torch went on a tour of the US before it was moved to the Statue of Liberty Museum. Photo by Keith Meyers.


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/275491789_2063100807196992_6079546447873794786_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=TUN-qr6FqwMAX-E-9T8&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT_sMjh0bJSkC8mSyvlcwyFzFgyv2Ij3QwpEm2_soTZ1lA&oe=62312392)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2022, 11:37:36 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/s55gSrJ.png)

First knonwn photo of a person, 1839 Paris.  Ten minute exposure.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2022, 12:00:18 PM
Semper Fi! The U.S. Marine that occasionally got into trouble and even once escaped from the WWII German POW camp Stalag Luft III (The Great Escape):
Steven T. McQueen had a rough childhood. Between two abusive stepfathers, an alcoholic mother who abandoned him, and growing up in a reform school, it’s no surprise the famous actor viewed the Marine Corps as a great escape from life’s hardships. At age 16, Steven McQueen moved to New York with his mother, where he met two merchant mariners. They convinced him to join the U.S. Merchant Marine, his first taste of service. At his first stop in the Dominican Republic, he quickly abandoned his post and started working in a brothel.
From there, McQueen drifted about, doing odd jobs such as lumberjacking in Canada or selling pens in Texas. He was eventually arrested for vagrancy in the deep south of the United States and forced to work 30 days on a chain gang.
In 1947, at age 17, McQueen received permission from his mother to join the Marine Corps. He went through basic training at Parris Island, South Carolina. Initially, he was promoted to private first class in an armored division, but had trouble with authority and was demoted to private no less than seven times. At one point, he went absent without leave to spend two weeks with his girlfriend and was confined to the brig for 41 days.
Once out of the brig while deployed to the Labrador Sea for amphibious training, his transport ship struck a sandbar, sending several of the tanks and their crews into icy waters. Without hesitating, McQueen dove into the sea and reportedly saved five Marines from drowning. rescued several men during a disastrous training exercise in the Arctic, he was given the honor of guarding President Harry Truman's yacht the USS Williamsburg, where he spent the rest of his career until leaving the Marines in 1950.
Despite his trouble adjusting to military life, he remembered the Marine Corps fondly, saying, "The Marines made a man out of me. I learned how to get along with others, and I had a platform to jump off of."


(https://i.imgur.com/H6U68Zu.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2022, 07:16:01 PM
Tested: 2006 Sports-Car World Cup (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a15390340/2006-chevrolet-corvette-z06-vs-2006-ferrari-f430-2007-porsche-911-turbo-comparison-tests/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&fbclid=IwAR1N1-_l-j0bzwEvnw85qZN1Wyb2tEDWfr1PZiuFbMFnDzFp5XZ4yw4Y2m8)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 13, 2022, 11:32:31 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/sNwcqQW.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2022, 04:11:14 PM
During the War of 1812, the British captured the United States capitol, Washington, DC. However, their occupation lasted just 26 hours due to a tornado that formed in the city and headed straight for the British on Capitol Hill.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2022, 05:22:05 PM
When explorer and geologist J.W. Powell traversed the country in the late 1870s, he confirmed the location of the 100th meridian. Noting the differences in climate between the western and eastern sides of the imaginary line, he proposed forming districts that would manage water and land based on the area's needs rather than on state borders. While his exploration was groundbreaking, his resource-management proposal was shot down in Congress.

Still, the 100th meridian has proved an accurate divide between the dry west and the humid east. The spot where the meridian passes through Cozad was also an important site on another history-making journey.

When the first transcontinental railroad was built in the 19th century, the goal set by Congress was to reach the 100th meridian in Nebraska.

That ambitious goal was achieved in October of 1866. The first passenger train riding from Greenwich in the east to the 100th meridian carried 250 politicians, railroad officials, reporters, and other notable passengers. A large celebration followed to commemorate this truly incredible feat of modern engineering.

A sign erected near the railroad tracks proudly proclaiming "100th Meridian - 247 Miles From Omaha" remained in place until the 1930s, at which time it was replaced by a stone monument donated by locals.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2022, 04:09:08 PM
HMS Hood, a 42,100-ton battlecruiser built at Clydebank, Scotland, was completed in March 1920. For more than two decades, she was the World's largest warship and, with her long, low hull and finely balanced silhouette, was to many the embodiment of "big-gun" era seapower. During her travels in European waters and far away, Hood actively represented Great Britain throughout her career. Her first cruise, in 1920, was to Scandanavia. The next year she went down to Gibraltar and Spain and in 1922 visited Brazil and the West Indies. After a brief call on Denmark and Norway in 1923, Hood was flagship on a eleven-month cruise around the World, accompanied by the smaller battlecruiser Repulse and a number of light cruisers. In 1925, she called on Lisbon to help commemorate Portugal's contributions to navigation and exploration.
For ten years after 1925, Hood was assigned to the Royal Navy's Home and Atlantic Fleets, operating primarily around Europe, with a visit to the West Indies in 1932. She served with the Mediterranean Fleet in 1936-39, protecting British interests during the Spanish Civil War.
- Peter Chen



Battlecruisers have an interesting, and somewhat inglorious history.  They were meant to be ships with battleship guns and cruiser armor and speed.  The US built two large cruisers in WW Two, named Alaska and Guam.  They had 12 inch main guns, smaller than battleship guns, and were considered superheavy cruisers instead of battlecruisers.

The HMS Hood of course suffered an untimely end.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 18, 2022, 04:25:36 PM
HMS Hood, a 42,100-ton battlecruiser built at Clydebank, Scotland, was completed in March 1920. For more than two decades, she was the World's largest warship and, with her long, low hull and finely balanced silhouette, was to many the embodiment of "big-gun" era seapower. During her travels in European waters and far away, Hood actively represented Great Britain throughout her career. Her first cruise, in 1920, was to Scandanavia. The next year she went down to Gibraltar and Spain and in 1922 visited Brazil and the West Indies. After a brief call on Denmark and Norway in 1923, Hood was flagship on a eleven-month cruise around the World, accompanied by the smaller battlecruiser Repulse and a number of light cruisers. In 1925, she called on Lisbon to help commemorate Portugal's contributions to navigation and exploration.
For ten years after 1925, Hood was assigned to the Royal Navy's Home and Atlantic Fleets, operating primarily around Europe, with a visit to the West Indies in 1932. She served with the Mediterranean Fleet in 1936-39, protecting British interests during the Spanish Civil War.
- Peter Chen



Battlecruisers have an interesting, and somewhat inglorious history.  They were meant to be ships with battleship guns and cruiser armor and speed.  The US built two large cruisers in WW Two, named Alaska and Guam.  They had 12 inch main guns, smaller than battleship guns, and were considered superheavy cruisers instead of battlecruisers.

The HMS Hood of course suffered an untimely end.
The USN has notably avoided referring to the Alaska Class as Battlecruisers and, as such, the US never built a Battlecruiser.

Battlecruisers, as you noted were conceptually supposed to be able to obliterate anything they couldn't outrun or outrun anything they couldn't obliterate. In practice they ended up being added to the battle line at Jutland and elsewhere with predictably catastrophic results.

Battlecruisers were conceived in an era when Battleships topped out around 20 kn and Cruisers were considerably faster. Post treaty BB's were considerably faster up to the 33 kn US Iowa Class. Thus Battlecruisers were outdated.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 18, 2022, 06:21:35 PM
After Joachim Neumann, a civil engineering student, escaped East Berlin by pretending to be a Swiss tourist, he spent the next five months digging a tunnel from West to East Berlin. He ultimately helped his girlfriend and 57 other people escape.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 19, 2022, 06:50:08 PM
Napoleon attacked Russia on June 22.

Hitler attacked Russia on June 22.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 19, 2022, 07:51:08 PM
Hitler was weird that way

and in some other ways
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 20, 2022, 08:17:08 AM
Hitler had planned to attack earlier, though the weather may not have allowed it.  Mussolini invaded Greece, badly, and Hitler decided he needed to bail him out.  Then Yugoslavia was overthrown by a hostile government, so Hitler had to invade that to get to Greece, and did, but it put hours on his tanks to the point they needed time to be refitted.  Tank treads and engines don't last long, which is why they often are moved by transporters.

This may well have delayed his Barbarosa invasion by 2-3 weeks, which would have been pivotal in October.  It is however not clear if the mud had dried out by say June 1.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 20, 2022, 10:06:39 AM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/275726940_5237244669673559_256446956294792655_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=UoPbofYupPIAX8mVx9F&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT8rw3nWI0n0W-aOT-ayjEjPPNiXvZgvI4sX8fpIkMjs3A&oe=623B4BA7)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 20, 2022, 10:57:42 AM
Frat Boys,SMDH
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2022, 08:37:05 AM
In 1919, the first major aviation disaster in the United States occurred in Chicago. The Wingfoot Express blimp crashed into the Illinois Trust and Savings Bank, taking the lives of 13 people and injuring 27 more.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2022, 09:14:34 AM
March 21st

As Deputy Barney Fife, he was so inept he had to carry his bullet in his pocket... But Don Knotts was a veteran of the Second World War, who was awarded the World War II Victory Medal, Philippine Liberation Medal, Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal (with 4 bronze service stars), Army Good Conduct Medal, Marksman Badge (with Carbine Bar) and Honorable Service Lapel Pin. He was born on this day in 1924.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 23, 2022, 09:19:31 AM
On this date:
In 1775, Patrick Henry delivered an address to the Virginia Provincial Convention in which he is said to have declared, “Give me liberty, or give me death!”
In 1806, explorers Meriwether Lewis and William Clark, having reached the Pacific coast, began their journey back east.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2022, 11:12:49 AM
Historic Photographs

Huntington Beach, California, during the Oil boom of 1928.


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/277005807_2074836109356795_2127860781207917119_n.png?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=kSS_Yw3sdjkAX90hIZ1&_nc_oc=AQm0cC3Sv0seJoYt0wJAfLlcKmGdJ-E8yc5nnk7tK8V3TCbsATCf-ckipr7APH7hbNI&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9xQy8Qae0nnEJMcw7fN0wmemFY517rvXxJPBNuKIKMYQ&oe=6240FB50)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 23, 2022, 11:49:51 AM
Beautiful, nice place for Pelosi
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 23, 2022, 12:28:18 PM
I watched this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_a7Xp2jfkg) the other night and thought some people (mostly Michigan fans) would appreciate it due to the name of the ship.  

The United States Navy operated two Aircraft Carriers on the Great Lakes.  No, they were not for a planned invasion of Canada, eh!  The USS Wolverine and her sister ship the USS Sable were converted into carriers to train the thousands of carrier pilots (and aircrew and ground crew, etc) needed to man the actual fighting carriers in the Pacific and to a lesser extent in the Atlantic.  Both were converted from pleasure cruisers and operated out of Chicago (Navy Pier).  Famously, one of the pilots trained on the USS Wolverine was a young man from Connecticut named George Herbert Walker Bush.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 23, 2022, 12:40:26 PM
Lotta respect for Old Man George,not so much for his Kid and his cronie DICK
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2022, 05:30:33 PM
just gotta toss that dirty nickel in there, don'tcha?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on March 23, 2022, 06:04:05 PM
just gotta toss that dirty nickel in there, don'tcha?
LOL   thats funny coming from the King of the dirty nickel tossers
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on March 23, 2022, 06:05:51 PM
He has a point...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 23, 2022, 06:21:50 PM
just gotta toss that dirty nickel in there, don'tcha?
Dubya & DICK didn't dabble in nickels
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2022, 09:45:19 AM
22 March 1933 | The first official concentration camp was opened in Nazi Germany at the site of an unused gunpowder and munitions factory near the town of Dacchau 16 km from Munich. It was indented to hold political opponents of NDSAP.
The first commandant of Rudolf Höss began his career in SS-Totenkopfverbände in KL Dachau. He was assigned there in December 1934 & held the post of Blockführer. Another link between the two camps is the use of "Arbeit macht frei" slogan at their gates.
In the twelve years of its existence over 200.000 people from Nazi Germany and many countries of occupied Europe were imprisoned in Dachau and in the numerous sub camps. Around 41.500 were murdered.
On April 29 1945, American troops liberated the camp.


The death camps in Poland were far larger of course.


(https://i.imgur.com/ePcAJkT.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2022, 09:50:03 AM
The youngest soldier in the Civil War was a 9-year-old boy from Mississippi. The oldest was an 80-year-old from Iowa. More than 10,000 soldiers serving in the Union Army were under 18 years old.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 24, 2022, 10:12:45 AM
22 March 1933 | The first official concentration camp was opened in Nazi Germany at the site of an unused gunpowder and munitions factory near the town of Dacchau 16 km from Munich. It was indented to hold political opponents of NDSAP.
The first commandant of Rudolf Höss began his career in SS-Totenkopfverbände in KL Dachau. He was assigned there in December 1934 & held the post of Blockführer. Another link between the two camps is the use of "Arbeit macht frei" slogan at their gates.
In the twelve years of its existence over 200.000 people from Nazi Germany and many countries of occupied Europe were imprisoned in Dachau and in the numerous sub camps. Around 41.500 were murdered.
On April 29 1945, American troops liberated the camp.

The death camps in Poland were far larger of course.
I actually went and saw Dachau when I was in Germany in 1989.  The Germans have basically no signage, it was HARD to find and I imagine that was not without reason.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 24, 2022, 10:22:30 AM
The youngest soldier in the Civil War was a 9-year-old boy from Mississippi. The oldest was an 80-year-old from Iowa. More than 10,000 soldiers serving in the Union Army were under 18 years old.
The number of casualties in the Civil War is staggering.  The two sides lost around 620,000 killed.  That is almost as many as the US lost in all the other wars it has ever been involved in combined.  Also, there is the issue of impact.  In WWII, for example, the US lost around 400,000 killed.  So it sounds like that is almost as many as the Civil War and it is but as a percentage it is vastly different:

Ie, the Civil War was seven times deadlier than WWII in terms of percentage of US population killed.  

Also consider it this way:

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2022, 10:46:28 AM
The number who died of disease in the CW was enormous, we did not have 620,000 "killed in battle".  The figure I hear for WW 2 was 292,000.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 25, 2022, 10:59:13 AM
Argentina was the first country to use fingerprinting in order to determine if a person was guilty of a crime. The first known example of fingerprinting occurred in June, 1892, when police used a bloody fingerprint left on a door to match Francisca Rojas to the killing of her two children.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 25, 2022, 11:10:10 AM
America’s Official Fur Trade Museum, The Museum Of The Fur Trade, Is Right Here In Nebraska
There’s no better way to learn about the past than by visiting a museum. Nebraska has many of them; in fact, it seems like there’s at least one museum in every town. There’s one in western Nebraska that’s full of fascinating, little-known history – and it’s the only one of its kind on the planet.

The Museum of the Fur Trade is located three miles east of Chadron in western Nebraska. The one-of-a-kind attraction opened in 1949 on the former site of the Bordeaux Trading Post, which was established in 1837.

https://www.onlyinyourstate.com/nebraska/museum-of-the-fur-trade-ne/?fbclid=IwAR0pq_EkOAaH6eBFNs8FOBZ871zStoMhoy-T7J9Fp2HkiyrzV6ObMacP49M (https://www.onlyinyourstate.com/nebraska/museum-of-the-fur-trade-ne/?fbclid=IwAR0pq_EkOAaH6eBFNs8FOBZ871zStoMhoy-T7J9Fp2HkiyrzV6ObMacP49M)

(https://img-aws.ehowcdn.com/700x/cdn.onlyinyourstate.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/60883883_10155930274911829_5948897607563608064_o-700x467.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 26, 2022, 11:53:10 AM
The earthquake in Lisbon, Portugal, in 1775 caused waves on the surface of Scotland’s Loch Ness, more than 1,240 miles (2,000 km) away.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 08, 2022, 09:56:55 AM
Because there is no gravity in space, there is no natural convection, which means body heat won’t rise off the skin. Because of this, the body will constantly perspire to cool itself but, unfortunately, the sweat won’t drip or evaporate—it will just build up.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on April 08, 2022, 10:23:23 AM
Because there is no gravity in space, there is no natural convection, which means body heat won’t rise off the skin. Because of this, the body will constantly perspire to cool itself but, unfortunately, the sweat won’t drip or evaporate—it will just build up.
thanks for putting that in my head
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 08, 2022, 01:41:15 PM
Because there is no gravity in space, there is no natural convection, which means body heat won’t rise off the skin. Because of this, the body will constantly perspire to cool itself but, unfortunately, the sweat won’t drip or evaporate—it will just build up.
Don't sweat the small stuff
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 08, 2022, 04:09:41 PM
Gravity permeates space, and evaporation does not hinge on convection.  Low Earth orbit is only 200 miles up, plenty of gravity there.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 11, 2022, 04:09:25 PM
If you shoot say a cannon ball horizontal to the Earth's surface, it goes out and falls to the ground obviously.  If you shoot it faster, it goes further.  If you shoot it at around 17,500 mph, it goes out (assume no air) and falls just as the Earth's surface curves.

It's in "free fall".  Gravity keeps it from going on out into space and makes it curve, but it now conforms to the roundness of the Earth, and that is what it's like to be in orbit.  There is plenty of gravity around, but you are falling so you don't experience it.

At about 25,000 mph, you leave the Earth's gravitational well entirely and are headed out into the Solar System, somewhere.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 11, 2022, 06:26:44 PM
The earthquake in Lisbon, Portugal, in 1775 caused waves on the surface of Scotland’s Loch Ness, more than 1,240 miles (2,000 km) away.
There's a "yo mama" joke here...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 12, 2022, 08:57:48 AM
In 1956, John McCarthy invented the word "artificial intelligence."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 12, 2022, 09:19:40 AM
The earthquake in Lisbon, Portugal, in 1775 caused waves on the surface of Scotland’s Loch Ness, more than 1,240 miles (2,000 km) away.
I learned about this when we were in Lisbon last fall. Quite the tragedy. We went on a tour of the underground ruins, which they built on top of. Very interesting.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 18, 2022, 11:59:42 AM
Mayans used chocolate in baptisms and in marriage ceremonies. It was also sometimes used in the place of blood during ceremonies. Mayan emperors were often buried with jars of chocolate by their side.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 18, 2022, 12:07:27 PM
Herhsey's?Nestle's?Cadbury? Ghiraldi's? Poor Bastages never had a mallo cup
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2022, 04:17:32 PM
On April 18, Gen. Joseph E. Johnston and Gen. William T. Sherman negotiated the largest surrender of the American Civil War. Roughly 90,000 Confederates in North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida were to lay down their arms. The memorandum or basis of agreement issued on the 18th established an armistice while both sides sought approval for the agreement which provided, among other things, for the return of arms, re-establishment of federal courts, and granting of general amnesty to both soldiers and citizens. Secretary of War, William Stanton believed Sherman had gone too far in addressing civil matters and sent the generals back to the drawing board.

Sherman and Johnston reconvened on April 26 at the Bennett Place, and Gen. John M. Schofield drafted terms that closely resembled the Appomattox terms. Hostilities were to cease, each brigade could keep 1/7 of its small arms, the rest were to be deposited at their state capitols, all officers and men would be paroled upon taking a loyalty oath, soldiers were to retain their horses and private property, and the U.S. army would provide field, rail, and water transportation to the newly paroled troops. Sherman also furnished 250,000 rations for his former foes.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2022, 01:29:11 PM
On April 17, 1783, during the American Revolution, in response to Spain’s decision to join the war on the American side, British Captain James Colbert launched a surprise assault on the Spanish post of Fort Carlos on the Arkansas River near present day Gillett, Arkansas.  This battle took place nearly two months after the Revolutionary War’s official end, but due to the long amount of time it took news to travel that far west, both sides knew nothing about the peace.

Colbert’s attack on Fort Carlos, the only Revolutionary War action to occur in the state of Arkansas, lasted nearly six hours. Colbert and his eighty-two men poured volley after volley of musketry into the fort.  The forty Spanish defenders and their Quapaw Indian allies stood strong, giving the British back all that they took. Eventually, after realizing that they would be unable to force the Spaniards to surrender, Colbert and his men were forced to retreat. Arkansas would later be ceded by Spain to France as part of the much larger Louisiana Territory, with France in turn selling the land to the U.S. Government in 1803 as part of the Louisiana Purchase.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 19, 2022, 02:43:59 PM
Well we should have just waited and took it,but France did LOTS for the good guys revolution,so the white wigs ponied up
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 19, 2022, 02:45:52 PM
At about 25,000 mph, you leave the Earth's gravitational well entirely and are headed out into the Solar System, somewhere.
That's 24,999 mph more than Bob Uecker stealing second
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2022, 02:50:23 PM
Bob had 6 SBs in the minors, zero in the majors.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 19, 2022, 02:54:48 PM
That's 24,999 mph more than Bob Uecker stealing attempting to steal second
FIFY
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 22, 2022, 10:46:12 AM
Yellowstone National Park in Wyoming sits on the site of an ancient supervolcano. It erupted around 2 million years ago, 1.3 million years ago, and 640,000 years ago. If it follows the same pattern, another eruption is due any time now.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2022, 08:45:14 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/AndJC9A.png)

Atomic bomb "Little Boy" in a bomb pit, ready to be loaded onto the B-29 bomber 'Enola Gay' on Tinian, Mariana Islands, on August 6, 1945.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2022, 08:58:29 AM
The gives one a good idea of the physical size of that bomb.  It's weight was around 10,000 pounds.  Only a B-29 could lift and deliver it any distance.  It's design was so simple it was never tested before use.  The Nagasaki bomb design was tested and was more complex in nature and relied on plutonium, an artificial element created at Hanford, WA.  This one was more powerful, weight about the same, dimensions different, called "Fat Boy".

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2022, 09:26:23 AM
On This Day - April 21, 1836 – During the Texan War for Independence, the Texas militia under Sam Houston launches a surprise attack against the forces of Mexican General Santa Anna along the San Jacinto River. With the rallying cry of, "Remember the Alamo!", the Mexicans were thoroughly routed and hundreds were taken prisoner, including General Santa Anna himself.
After gaining independence from Spain in the 1820s, Mexico welcomed foreign settlers to sparsely populated Texas, and a large group of Americans led by Stephen F. Austin settled along the Brazos River. The Americans soon outnumbered the resident Mexicans, and by the 1830s attempts by the Mexican government to regulate these semi-autonomous American communities led to rebellion. In March 1836, in the midst of armed conflict with the Mexican government, Texas declared its independence from Mexico. The Texas volunteers initially suffered defeat against the forces of Santa Anna–Sam Houston’s troops were forced into an eastward retreat, and the Alamo fell.
However, in late April, Houston’s army surprised a Mexican force at San Jacinto, and Santa Anna was captured, bringing an end to Mexico’s effort to subdue Texas. In exchange for his freedom, Santa Anna recognized Texas’s independence; although the treaty was later abrogated and tensions built up along the Texas-Mexico border. The citizens of the so-called Lone Star Republic elected Sam Houston as president and endorsed the entrance of Texas into the United States.
However, the likelihood of Texas joining the Union as a slave state delayed any formal action by the U.S. Congress for more than a decade. Finally, in 1845, President John Tyler orchestrated a compromise in which Texas would join the United States as a slave state. On December 29, 1845, Texas entered the United States as the 28th state, broadening the irrepressible differences in the U.S. over the issue of slavery and igniting the Mexican-American War.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 24, 2022, 09:57:11 AM
The Connecticut class of pre-dreadnought battleships were the penultimate class of the type built for the United States Navy. The class comprised six ships: Connecticut, Louisiana, Vermont, Kansas, Minnesota, and New Hampshire, which were built between 1903 and 1908. The ships were armed with a mixed offensive battery of 12-inch (305 mm), 8-inch (203 mm), and 7-inch (178 mm) guns. This arrangement was rendered obsolete by the advent of all-big-gun battleships like the British HMS Dreadnought, which was completed before most of the Connecticuts entered service.

During the American participation in World War I, the Connecticut-class ships were used to train sailors for an expanding wartime fleet. In late 1918, they began to escort convoys to Europe, and in September that year, Minnesota was badly damaged by a mine laid by the German U-boat SM U-117. After the war, they were used to bring American soldiers back from France and later as training ships. The 1922 Washington Naval Treaty, which mandated major reductions in naval weapons, cut the ships' careers short. Within two years, all six ships had been sold for scrap.

(https://i.imgur.com/ZKqknVi.png)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 24, 2022, 09:58:52 AM
The Dreadnought displaced 18,000 tons (more than 20,000 tons full load), was 526 feet (160 m) long, and carried a crew of about 800. Its four propeller shafts, powered by steam turbines instead of the traditional steam pistons, gave it an unprecedented top speed of 21 knots. Because recent improvements in naval gunnery had made it unnecessary to prepare for short-range battle, Dreadnought carried no guns of secondary calibre (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/calibre). Instead, it mounted a single-calibre main armament of 10 12-inch guns in five twin turrets. In addition, 24 3-inch quick-firing guns, 5 Maxim machine guns, and 4 torpedo (https://www.britannica.com/technology/torpedo) tubes were added for fighting off destroyers and torpedo boats.


The Dreadnought immediately made all preceding battleships obsolete, but by World War I (https://www.britannica.com/event/World-War-I) it was obsolescent itself, having been outclassed by faster “superdreadnoughts” carrying bigger guns. The Dreadnought’s only notable engagement of the war was the ramming and sinking of a German U-boat (https://www.britannica.com/technology/U-boat) near the Pentland Firth, Scotland, in March 1915. Placed in reserve in 1919, the ship (https://www.britannica.com/technology/ship) was sold for scrap the following year and broken up in 1923.

The Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica (https://www.britannica.com/editor/The-Editors-of-Encyclopaedia-Britannica/4419)This article was most recently revised and updated by Adam Augustyn (https://www.britannica.com/editor/Adam-Augustyn/6394).
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 24, 2022, 02:48:54 PM
The gives one a good idea of the physical size of that bomb.  It's weight was around 10,000 pounds.  Only a B-29 could lift and deliver it any distance.  It's design was so simple it was never tested before use.  The Nagasaki bomb design was tested and was more complex in nature and relied on plutonium, an artificial element created at Hanford, WA.  This one was more powerful, weight about the same, dimensions different, called "Fat Boy".
Some revisionist brit on YT did a whole segment on how the RAF could get the job done if for some reason the USAF couldn't.Of course quite a few people i.e. pilots and war historians corrected his misconceptions.The guy is suppose to be a historian of some note but was steered out of his fallacies fairly fast.He was saying there were Lancaster crews standing by(BULLSHIT).Though the lanc was a great plane for the ETO and could carry more than 10,000 lbs it certainly didn't have the range,speed or ceiling to get away from the repercussion blast of the Bomb fast/far enough
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 24, 2022, 04:00:41 PM
A Lancaster might have gotten it to Berlin.  It had the lift capability.  Range would be marginal.  Obviously the B-29 was a state of the art bomber by 1945 despite numerous teething problems, or perhaps in part because of.  It's a hypothetical that means little, like the best fighter or tank of WW 2.

Avro Lancaster vs Boeing B-29 Superfortress (militaryfactory.com) (https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/compare-aircraft-results.php?form=form&aircraft1=234&aircraft2=82&Submit=Compare+Aircraft)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on April 24, 2022, 04:42:12 PM
The Dreadnought displaced 18,000 tons (more than 20,000 tons full load), was 526 feet (160 m) long, and carried a crew of about 800. 

Always thought that was a cool name.  I lived in Lakeland, FL from age 3-9 and we'd drive by the HS stadium's "Home of the Dreadnaughts" all the time.  Pretty legendary football program around the turn of the millennium, with numerous state championships around then.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 24, 2022, 04:48:59 PM
Yes, it's an intimidating term, I think.  It sounds evil.  The British dreadnaught changed the era.  Some later BBs are referred to as "super dreadnaughts" built closer to WW One. 

Some argue the Iowa class is more of a battlecruiser than battleship.  I don't get too hung up on such distinctions.

The Lexington and Yorktown were built on battlecruiser hulls.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2022, 09:50:50 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/hNfYAvS.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 26, 2022, 09:52:07 AM
what could go wrong??
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on April 26, 2022, 11:46:05 AM
and its still happening to this day
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 26, 2022, 01:55:44 PM
Check this guys site out a bunch of wild true stories click on his name then another screen appears with all the different segments
https://youtu.be/sx14YtiLFIM
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 26, 2022, 05:01:19 PM
Some revisionist brit on YT did a whole segment on how the RAF could get the job done if for some reason the USAF couldn't.Of course quite a few people i.e. pilots and war historians corrected his misconceptions.The guy is suppose to be a historian of some note but was steered out of his fallacies fairly fast.He was saying there were Lancaster crews standing by(BULLSHIT).Though the lanc was a great plane for the ETO and could carry more than 10,000 lbs it certainly didn't have the range,speed or ceiling to get away from the repercussion blast of the Bomb fast/far enough
If you want to learn more than you ever wanted to know about the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs and the Manhattan Project in general I highly recommend a trip to the Trinity Site (where they tested the first one on July 16,1945).  It is only open twice a year, something like the first Saturdays in April and October.  Anyway, I went once and they had a LOT of information.  It was quite fascinating.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 26, 2022, 05:04:10 PM
The Dreadnought displaced 18,000 tons (more than 20,000 tons full load), was 526 feet (160 m) long, and carried a crew of about 800. Its four propeller shafts, powered by steam turbines instead of the traditional steam pistons, gave it an unprecedented top speed of 21 knots. Because recent improvements in naval gunnery had made it unnecessary to prepare for short-range battle, Dreadnought carried no guns of secondary calibre (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/calibre). Instead, it mounted a single-calibre main armament of 10 12-inch guns in five twin turrets. In addition, 24 3-inch quick-firing guns, 5 Maxim machine guns, and 4 torpedo (https://www.britannica.com/technology/torpedo) tubes were added for fighting off destroyers and torpedo boats.


The Dreadnought immediately made all preceding battleships obsolete, but by World War I (https://www.britannica.com/event/World-War-I) it was obsolescent itself, having been outclassed by faster “superdreadnoughts” carrying bigger guns. The Dreadnought’s only notable engagement of the war was the ramming and sinking of a German U-boat (https://www.britannica.com/technology/U-boat) near the Pentland Firth, Scotland, in March 1915. Placed in reserve in 1919, the ship (https://www.britannica.com/technology/ship) was sold for scrap the following year and broken up in 1923.

The Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica (https://www.britannica.com/editor/The-Editors-of-Encyclopaedia-Britannica/4419)This article was most recently revised and updated by Adam Augustyn (https://www.britannica.com/editor/Adam-Augustyn/6394).
Your math is off where I bolded.  If it had five twin turrets that makes 10 guns.  It it had 12 guns in twin turrets then it must have had six turrets.  

I'll look it up . . .

Per wiki it was 10 guns in five twin turrets.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 26, 2022, 05:39:11 PM
Yes, it's an intimidating term, I think.  It sounds evil.  The British dreadnaught changed the era.  Some later BBs are referred to as "super dreadnaughts" built closer to WW One.

Some argue the Iowa class is more of a battlecruiser than battleship.  I don't get too hung up on such distinctions.

The Lexington and Yorktown were built on battlecruiser hulls.
The Iowa Class were generally referred to as Fast Battleships.  They were MUCH more well armored than a typical Battlecruiser.  

Off the top of my head simplified explanation of the terms:
Cruisers:
Cruisers were smaller and generally faster than Battleships.  The Washington Naval Treaty did not explicitly define "Cruisers" but they were de-facto defined because the Treaty limited the major ships (Battleships, Battlecruisers, and Aircraft Carriers) and the "other" were limited to not more than 10,000 tons each and with guns not larger than 8".  

Battleships:
Battleships were the heavyweight fighters.  They carried large guns and sufficient armor to stand up to hits from equally large opposing guns.  To wit, the concept of "balanced Battleship" existed even before Dreadnaught and demanded that a Battleship should have sufficient armor to withstand a hit from a gun equal to it's own.  They were huge, extremely well armed, and extremely well armored.  

Battlecruisers:
Battlecruisers were more-or-less a compromise between Battleships and Cruisers.  They had Battleship guns but only Cruiser Armor.  Ie, they were NOT a "balanced" ship and could NOT withstand hits from guns equal to their own.  However, they were MUCH faster than contemporary Battleships.  They had Cruiser speed.  The theory here was that Battlecruisers could outrun anything they couldn't pulverize and pulverize anything they couldn't outrun.  

Fast Battleships:
This was a much later innovation.  The Battleships of the WWI era could only make about 20 kn.  For example, the American Colorado Class had a top speed of 21 kn.  Three were completed shortly after WWI with the fourth (Washington) being scrapped in accordance with the Washington Naval Treaty of 1922.  The next class of US Battleships was the North Carolina Class which did not come into service until two decades later, just before WWII (the two ships were commissioned in April and May of 1941).  The North Carolina class had a top speed of 28 kn.  Top speeds of US BB's starting with Colorado:

Fast Battleships like the 33 kn Iowas effectively rendered all Battlecruisers obsolete but it wasn't possible to get that kind of speed along with large guns and sufficient armor on a Treaty-limited Battleship.  The South Dakota's more-or-less complied with the then existing treaties so they were limited to around 35,000 tons.  The Iowa's were fully post-treaty ships so they were built without regard to such limitations and displaced nearly 60,000 tons at full load (New Jersey actually did displace a full 60,000 in it's Vietnam era tour).  

The US laid down several Battlecruisers during WWI and, as you noted above, Lexington and Yorktown were converted from Battlecruisers to Aircraft Carriers during construction in order to comply with the Treaty.  The US also built the Iowa Class Fast Battleships and a rather curious class of "Large Cruisers" known as the Alaska Class.  The US Navy has consistently discouraged referring to the Alaska's as "Battlecruisers".  Also, the Alaska's were never named using the "CC" designation reserved for Battlecruisers but they also didn't get the "CA" used for cruisers.  Instead they were "CB-1, CB-2, and CB-3" (Alaska, Guam, and Hawaii).  Also note the names.  They were not named after states like Battleships nor after Cities like Cruisers.  Instead they were named after territories which seems like it fits between?  


The Alaska's were officially "Large Cruisers".  They displaced about 30,000 - 35,000 tons which is as large as Treaty Battleships (well, it would have been except that basically everybody was cheating during the treaty era it was just a question of by how much).  They had 12" guns so much smaller than contemporary BB's (16+) and armor somewhere between a Cruiser and a Battleship along with 33 kn speed.  

The Alaska's made very good Carrier escorts which was all that really mattered by the time they came online but it has often been pointed out that for the price of one Alaska Class Large Cruiser the US could have built several Baltimore Class Cruisers and as Carrier Escorts it is pretty hard to argue that one Alaska is better than three Baltimore's.  The Alaska's were designed to deal with Japanese ships that were planned (or believed to be planned) but by the time they were commissioned the Japanese Navy had been almost completely converted into Coral Reefs by US Carrier Aircraft so their intended use was gone before they were available.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on April 26, 2022, 05:39:25 PM
Your math is off where I bolded.  If it had five twin turrets that makes 10 guns.  It it had 12 guns in twin turrets then it must have had six turrets. 

I'll look it up . . .

Per wiki it was 10 guns in five twin turrets. 
He did say 10 12" guns not 12 guns
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 26, 2022, 10:15:31 PM
He did say 10 12" guns not 12 guns
Oops, I read it wrong 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 07:59:10 AM
The evolution of armor is fascinating to me.  The Musee des Blindes in Saumur, France, has lined up German panzers from prewar to near the end of the war.  This is about 1939 to 1944, just five years, and the increase in size and power was astonishing.  Germany started the war mostly with Panzer IIs, light tanks by any metric, and quite a few Czech tanks (that were better than Panzer IIs) and a relatively modest number of Panzer IIIs and Panzer IVs (short barreled, meant for infantry support).  

Folks criticize the US Sherman, but it was better than any of these, except the later model IIIs and upgunned IVs that came out about the same time.

As with naval guns, tank guns use the term caliber to mean ratio of barrel length to diameter at the breech.  A longer gun is going to be a more powerful gun, so a 75 mm/24 (below) caliber won't be nearly as powerful as a 75 mm/71 caliber.

(https://i.imgur.com/lo87G8w.png)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 08:25:09 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/a50Zgxj.jpg)

The closest is the Panzer II equipped with a 20 mm main gun, really intended to shoot very light tanks and infantry.  Going down the line is the III, then the IV with the very useful long 75 mm gun, and then the Tiger.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 08:26:06 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/2B4x89v.jpg)

The Tiger shown here is next to the Panzer IV.  It had the famous 88 mm main gun, but was slow and lacked sloped armor.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 08:28:20 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/1JrBszU.jpg)

The "Panther", with sloped armor, called a medium tank, with a very powerful 75 mm main gun.  It's design was somewhat taken from the Russian T-34, or at least it shared some basic features.  It was a very good tank overall but early models were very unreliable mechanically.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 08:30:08 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/bYrqtW3.jpg)

A Panzerjager, of hunting Panzer, without the turret of course, we'd call it a TD or tank destroyer.  Very nasty piece of work.  The US TD had turrets and often were very fast and lightly armored, somewhat akin to a battle cruiser in concept.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 08:31:53 AM
The French had more, and heavier tanks, than the Germans in 1940.  A very credible tank is shown below, it had deficiencies of course.  The Somua S35 had a decent main gun and was fairly fast and decently armored.

(https://i.imgur.com/tmYCyPN.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 08:44:32 AM
I guess I tanked this thread, I'll leave you with this:

(https://i.imgur.com/9ZQ9Pra.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 27, 2022, 09:54:43 AM
The "Elephant's Foot" is an extremely radioactive material formed during the Chernobyl accident. When the foot first formed, exposure to it for just 60 seconds would kill someone. Now, 500 seconds is the lethal time. It will remain radioactive for over 100,000 years.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 10:02:03 AM
Chernobyl's Elephant's Foot Is a Toxic Mass of Corium | HowStuffWorks (https://science.howstuffworks.com/chernobyl-elephants-foot.htm)

(https://i.imgur.com/1AMdcnH.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 27, 2022, 10:13:31 AM
so, I'd guess that dude's suit wasn't enough protection
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 10:14:33 AM
It would help some, along with the respirator, if he didn't stay long.

I had never heard of this before.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 27, 2022, 10:50:38 AM
Aviation History, Speed Edition: Meet The 5 Fastest Planes Ever

https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/04/aviation-history-speed-edition-meet-the-5-fastest-planes-ever-pictures/ (https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/04/aviation-history-speed-edition-meet-the-5-fastest-planes-ever-pictures/)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 27, 2022, 11:57:11 AM
The evolution of armor is fascinating to me.  The Musee des Blindes in Saumur, France, has lined up German panzers from prewar to near the end of the war.  This is about 1939 to 1944, just five years, and the increase in size and power was astonishing.  
Agreed, comparing at any of the warring nations primary tanks in 1939 to their main tanks in 1945 is astonishing.  
Folks criticize the US Sherman, but it was better than any of these, except the later model IIIs and upgunned IVs that came out about the same time.
I think a lot of the criticism of the Sherman is due to comparing it to late-war German Panthers and Tigers.  As you pointed out it was as good as anything the Germans had when it was initially produced.  

Late in the war the US also produced improved tanks but they only saw limited action because there were so many Shermans already in use and also because by that time the main "tank killer" for the US was no longer a tank or even a tank destroyer but rather a P47.  
A Panzerjager, of hunting Panzer, without the turret of course, we'd call it a TD or tank destroyer.  Very nasty piece of work.  The US TD had turrets and often were very fast and lightly armored, somewhat akin to a battle cruiser in concept.
Tank destroyers are nearly forgotten because, as it turned out, tanks needed to be able to fight other tanks.  That wasn't the initial theory.  The initial theory was that tanks would be for infantry support and destroying tanks was a completely separate function which called for a completely separate machine, the tank destroyer.  
The French had more, and heavier tanks, than the Germans in 1940.  A very credible tank is shown below, it had deficiencies of course.  The Somua S35 had a decent main gun and was fairly fast and decently armored.
This point about the French having more and heavier tanks than the Germans in 1940 is something that few people realize.  When we think of WWII we tend to think of the Germans and their "blitzkreig" so we picture German tanks.  

The difference wasn't so much equipment where the French were not lacking as it was doctrine/tactics where the Germans were first to realize that tanks could be massed and used to punch through the enemy's lines and surround enemy units.  French (and basically all other) tanks were instead parceled out as "infantry support".  Thus French tanks vastly outnumbered German tanks at every point along the front except the few points where the German tanks were massed and, as it turned out, those were the only points that mattered.  


Similarly, the Japanese were the first to really mass carriers.  The world's other major Navies (which basically just means the USN and the RN) mostly treated Carriers as support/spotting for the Battleships rather than seeing them and treating them as the focal point of a fleet operation.  This facilitated Japan's incredible success in the six months starting with Pearl Harbor but it ended at Midway when they ran into a USN that was using similar tactics/doctrine but doing it with equipment that was vastly more survivable.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 12:00:07 PM
The Japanese failed to use the superior range of their naval aircraft to advantage, often as not, I think.  A few times the winds were against them.

They could launch at extreme range and close the distance if the winds were favorable, and if they knew where our fleet was.  They did extremely well in night fighting in 1942-3 with their torpedo.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 27, 2022, 12:19:33 PM
The Japanese failed to use the superior range of their naval aircraft to advantage, often as not, I think.  A few times the winds were against them.
Well . . . the tactical success of the "Hawaii Operation" as they called it was due in large part to the phenomenal range of the Zero.  American reconnaissance flights out of Hawaii were fundamentally insufficient because the range of the Zeros allowed the Japanese Carriers to launch at dawn from a position further away than the reconnaissance flights had been planned based on.  

I think the bigger problem for the Japanese was that the long range of their aircraft came with a price and once guys like Jimmy Thatch figured out how to leverage that price against the Japanese they were in big trouble.  

The price of range:
Aircraft design like most engineering is a series of trade offs.  You can increase range by doing things such as decreasing weight and increasing fuel capacity.  The Japanese decreased weight by omitting armor and they increased fuel capacity by omitting self-sealing fuel tanks.  That gave them great range and also very good speed despite the Zero being powered by a much less powerful engine than even contemporary American fighters in 1941.  American pilots eventually learned that Zeros couldn't follow them in a full power dive because the nimble and light-weight Zeros simply were not strong enough to survive at those speeds.  American pilots also learned that while the Zero was very well armed it was almost completely unarmored and lacked self-sealing tanks so if you could line up a shot at it, it didn't take much to destroy it.  

One major mistake by the US was failing to utilize reports from Chennault's flying tigers who had already learned these things about the Zero BEFORE Pearl Harbor.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 27, 2022, 12:21:08 PM
They could launch at extreme range and close the distance if the winds were favorable, and if they knew where our fleet was.  They did extremely well in night fighting in 1942-3 with their torpedo.
The American torpedo's of the early portion of the war are a flat out embarrassment that got a LOT of Americans killed. 

Japanese night-fighting prowess was so good that the US didn't finally catch up until the advent of fully radar-aimed guns. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 12:24:04 PM
I dimly recall that the Flying Tigers rarely if ever combatted Zeros.  That could be wrong.

Obviously the F-6F eliminated most Zero advantages.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 12:25:24 PM
My Dad was radar operator on a B-24 in the SWPOA.  He told me his radar could be slaved to the bomb release and when a certain line on his scope crossed center, the bombs would be released in a certain sequence against enemy shipping at night.  It sounded pretty advanced to me.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 03:16:44 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/oZfH20T.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 06:23:59 PM
The largest non nuclear weapon of WW2 was placed on display in front of RAF Scampton’s main gate. 15 years after it had been proudly placed on display, it was discovered to be still fully packed with its 6.5 tons of explosives.

The Grand Slam was a 22,000 lb earthquake bomb used by RAF Bomber Command against strategic targets during the Second World War. It was the most powerful non-atomic bomb used in the war.

Although many articles have been written about this incident, most fail to mention that the bomb was in fact "live" but not armed. The bomb would have only been armed prior to loading on a Lancaster. Although less likely to detonate unexpectedly, it is not advisable to place 6.5 tons of explosives on public display...

Had the bomb guarding the gate at RAF Scampton, known as "10 ton Tess" gone off, the entire RAF base , as well as most of the northern part of the City of Lincoln, would have been destroyed.


(https://i.imgur.com/DZCpwF0.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 27, 2022, 06:27:50 PM
I dimly recall that the Flying Tigers rarely if ever combatted Zeros.  That could be wrong.

Obviously the F-6F eliminated most Zero advantages.
I can't find it off-hand, but I read somewhere that Chennault's Flying Tigers had encountered enough Zeros such that they had a pretty good idea of their characteristics and that Chennault had reported same back to higher-ups in the US but it basically got lost in the bureaucracy in part because Chennault was Army and it was the Navy that actually needed the information.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 27, 2022, 06:30:01 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/oZfH20T.png)
Caption?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 27, 2022, 06:30:52 PM
My Dad was radar operator on a B-24 in the SWPOA.  He told me his radar could be slaved to the bomb release and when a certain line on his scope crossed center, the bombs would be released in a certain sequence against enemy shipping at night.  It sounded pretty advanced to me.
I'm guessing that was pretty late in the war?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 06:31:21 PM
Union Army under Sherman deploys F-14s in first ground attack missions around Atlanta 1864.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 06:36:21 PM
I'm guessing that was pretty late in the war?
It was 1943-1944, so pretty early.  He flew anti-sub missions out of Langley before they deployed.  Their first base was Guadalcanal.

SB-24 Snooper Aircraft (narkive.com) (https://rec.aviation.military.narkive.com/9UiIcrUv/sb-24-snooper-aircraft)


(https://i.imgur.com/A5ZR0ZP.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2022, 06:49:36 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/YJ2bkHN.jpg)

My Dad and the crew.  They were all killed in the crash save three.  My Dad was the oldest of the bunch at 25-6.  His shirt is hanging on the plane to disguise a radar antenna that could not be photographed.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on April 27, 2022, 07:22:47 PM
Union Army under Sherman deploys F-14s in first ground attack missions around Atlanta 1864.
Sherman could have used those F-14s
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 27, 2022, 08:21:39 PM
Union Army under Sherman deploys F-14s in first ground attack missions around Atlanta 1864.
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2FqeA0jZAlsCHAI%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1)
No wonder your Civil War Novel didn't sell J/K
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 27, 2022, 08:26:52 PM
Sherman could have used those F-14s
Bragg/Johnson/Hood could have used them more
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 28, 2022, 07:42:45 AM
This was a heckuva bomb in its day.

(https://i.imgur.com/CSni1b2.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2022, 08:40:57 AM
On the morning of September 20, 1863, the men of the 42nd Indiana rushed up LaFayette Road, and filed into line on the east side of McDonald Field, across from where the Chickamauga Battlefield Visitor Center now stands, and faced into the woods mere moments before their line was overwhelmed by the advance of General John C. Breckinridge's Confederate division.
Fifty-three men of the 42nd were captured and soon found their way into the Confederate prison system, initially being sent to Danville, Virginia, then being transferred to Andersonville when it opened in early 1864. Seventeen members of Company A, from Vanderburg County, Indiana, among them.  However, over the next few months that number dwindled as Andersonville proved to be the deadliest acreage of the American Civil War, taking six of Company A.  With the end of the war, the three survivors found themselves in Vicksburg, Mississippi, being packed aboard the Steamboat Sultana with around 2,100 recently released POWs.
The men were cramped for space as the boat was designed to hold only 376 people. Grossly overpacked, the ship departed Vicksburg on the night of April 24. Around 2 am, on April 27, just a short distance north of Memphis, Tennessee, the overstrained boilers exploded, turning the ship into a roaring inferno. It became the worst maritime disaster in American History and second worst explosion (only the destruction of the Twin Towers on 9/11 resulted in more deaths). One thousand seven hundred men died as a result.
Of the Company A men, only Private William McFarland survived. He later recounted, "I seemed to be dreaming and could hear some one saying, 'there isn't any skin left on their bodies.'  I awoke with a start and the next moment the boat was on fire and all was as light as day.  The wildest confusion followed.  Some spring into the river at once, others were killed, and I could fear the groans of the dying above the roar of the flames...I was on the hurricane deck, clear aft.  This part of the boat was jammed with me.  I saw the pilot house and hundreds of them sink through the roof into the flames, at which juncture I sprang overboard into the river." 

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 28, 2022, 10:50:11 AM
Bragg/Johnson/Hood could have used them more
I was thinking the same thing.  The battle worked out pretty well for General Sherman without any F14's.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 28, 2022, 10:52:08 AM
On the morning of September 20, 1863, the men of the 42nd Indiana rushed up LaFayette Road, and filed into line on the east side of McDonald Field, across from where the Chickamauga Battlefield Visitor Center now stands, and faced into the woods mere moments before their line was overwhelmed by the advance of General John C. Breckinridge's Confederate division.
Fifty-three men of the 42nd were captured and soon found their way into the Confederate prison system, initially being sent to Danville, Virginia, then being transferred to Andersonville when it opened in early 1864. Seventeen members of Company A, from Vanderburg County, Indiana, among them.  However, over the next few months that number dwindled as Andersonville proved to be the deadliest acreage of the American Civil War, taking six of Company A.  With the end of the war, the three survivors found themselves in Vicksburg, Mississippi, being packed aboard the Steamboat Sultana with around 2,100 recently released POWs.
The men were cramped for space as the boat was designed to hold only 376 people. Grossly overpacked, the ship departed Vicksburg on the night of April 24. Around 2 am, on April 27, just a short distance north of Memphis, Tennessee, the overstrained boilers exploded, turning the ship into a roaring inferno. It became the worst maritime disaster in American History and second worst explosion (only the destruction of the Twin Towers on 9/11 resulted in more deaths). One thousand seven hundred men died as a result.
Of the Company A men, only Private William McFarland survived. He later recounted, "I seemed to be dreaming and could hear some one saying, 'there isn't any skin left on their bodies.'  I awoke with a start and the next moment the boat was on fire and all was as light as day.  The wildest confusion followed.  Some spring into the river at once, others were killed, and I could fear the groans of the dying above the roar of the flames...I was on the hurricane deck, clear aft.  This part of the boat was jammed with me.  I saw the pilot house and hundreds of them sink through the roof into the flames, at which juncture I sprang overboard into the river." 
The Sultana sinking was just incredibly sad.  All of those POW's finally released at the end of the war and then they drowned or burned to death in an overloaded steamboat.  I saw a show about it, the river has changed course since 1865 and the site of the sinking is now a field.  They were trying to excavate the remains of the ship.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 28, 2022, 12:32:37 PM
https://douglascountygensoc.org/photos002.html
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 28, 2022, 04:44:39 PM
https://douglascountygensoc.org/photos002.html
The photo of the Bonnie and Clyde car reveals that they didn't want to leave any doubts.  Based on the number of holes in the driver's door, Clyde Barrow must have looked like swiss cheese when he got to the Coroner.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 29, 2022, 07:57:45 PM
Gettysburg was the largest battle ever fought in North America. It’s victor, General Meade, was born in Spain.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 01, 2022, 10:02:46 PM
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - - Socrates
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on May 01, 2022, 10:19:13 PM
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - - Socrates
"and who decides which is which" - - longhorn320
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 02, 2022, 12:04:01 AM
The Mystery of the Puffer Fish Helmets of Kiribati

This ceremonial headwear was a cultural touchstone before it became a colonial curiosity.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/puffer-fish-armor (https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/puffer-fish-armor)

[img width=774.8 height=937]https://img.atlasobscura.com/xnseg01vE-wBv5Kwn1Ud0y-4dMSlPXQAVt9s7Lzhxmk/rt:fit/w:1280/q:81/sm:1/scp:1/ar:1/aHR0cHM6Ly9hdGxh/cy1kZXYuczMuYW1h/em9uYXdzLmNvbS91/cGxvYWRzL2Fzc2V0/cy83YjJlYjU3Zi0y/NmJjLTRlNjgtYWM1/NC03MWYxYzZkNDM1/NTMwMTdlOWNlOTE3/NTIwM2Q5NDlfTXVz/ZXVtIG9mIEFyY2hh/ZW9sb2d5IGFuZCBB/bnRocm9wb2xvZ3lf/UHVmZmVyIGZpc2gg/YXJtb3IuanBn.jpg[/img]
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2022, 08:56:36 AM
159 YEARS AGO
Night of May 1, 1863
Battle of Chancellorsville
On the evening of May 1, Robert E. Lee and "Stonewall" Jackson hatched one of the boldest schemes in military history. Hunched over maps beside a small fire, the two generals plotted how to destroy the Union army, now entrenched around Chancellorsville. The solution came when Confederate cavalryman General J.E.B. Stuart reported that the Union right flank lay unprotected.
During the night, with the help of local residents, Lee and Jackson mapped a secure route across the front of the Union army to the Federal right flank. Jackson proposed taking 30,000 men to assail the Union army from the west. That would leave Lee with just 15,000 men to distract and hold in place the 75,000-man Union army in front of Chancellorsville. Dividing his outnumbered army invited destruction, but success promised dramatic victory. Lee gave his assent.
To reach the Union army's right flank, Jackson would have to march his corps twelve miles over narrow, unpaved roads. The general hoped to have his men moving by dawn on May 2, but he got an unusually late start. It was past 7 a.m. before his troops left their camps on the Orange Plank Road and passed this point on the first leg of their journey.
Jackson rode near the head of the marching column. His face appeared flushed, and his eyes flashed in anticipation of the coming conflict. When he reached the intersection, he dismounted and spoke with Generals Lee, A.P. Hill, and J.E.B. Stuart. The informal council lasted but a few minutes. Jackson then pointed toward the head of his moving column and galloped off. It was the last time that he and Lee would ever meet.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2022, 08:58:33 AM
Lee divided his army twice into three portions while facing an opponent much superior in numbers, but the terrain favored Lee, the area is called "The Wilderness".

Hooker in command of the Union Army was mostly confused and befuddled and thought reports of Jackson's flanking move was Lee retreating, he thought he had won without much fighting, so he stayed in place.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2022, 11:59:35 AM
Why did the SR-71 Have to Refuel Right After Take-off?

“Many people believe we refueled after takeoff because the aircraft leaked fuel so profusely that we needed to fuel up quickly,” says Col. Richard H. Graham. “We had to refuel right after takeoff for only one reason, and it wasn’t because we leaked JP-7 fuel on the ground. Yes, the plane does leak fuel, but not enough to require refueling after takeoff.
“The JP-7 fuel reaches temperatures well over 300 degrees F. during Mach 3 cruise. , making the fumes in each of the six fuel tanks very volatile and potentially explosive. The metal skin of the aircraft approaches 400 degrees F., adding to the volatility of the fuel inside the tanks. One of our aircraft limitations was a maximum speed of Mach 2.6 without an inert atmosphere inside the fuel tanks.
“The aircraft had three liquid nitrogen Dewar flasks containing 260 liters of liquid nitrogen, located in the nose wheel well. The only way to ensure a 100 percent inert atmosphere in each fuel tank was to refuel the plane inflight completely full of JP-7, allowing ambient air in each fuel tank to vent overboard. Once full of fuel, gaseous nitrogen would now dominate each fuel tank’s empty space above as it burned off JP-7. The nitrogen gas pressurized each fuel tank to 1.5 psi above ambient pressure and inerts the space above the heated fuel to prevent autogenous ignition. This is why we refueled after takeoff."
"Then we could safely accelerate beyond Mach 2.6.” “There was one other way of achieving tank inerting, called a Yo-Yo.  but this was a maintenance nightmare. A few of our missions required the SR-71 to accelerate to Mach 3+ right after takeoff with a 65,000-pound fuel load. The Yo-Yo procedure had the crew chief completely refuel the plane to full tanks of 80,000 pounds of fuel. Then, with the nitrogen pressurization system working, they de-fueled 15,000 pounds of JP-7, ending up with a 65,000-pound fuel load and a plane that was capable of going immediately to Mach 3+. Refueling the SR 71 took about 15 minutes or more but sometimes it seems like an eternity. Being assigned to the KC 135Q you did not have to be on alert all the time like other SAC tankers. The crew of the SR 71 fondly remembers the crew members of the KC 135Q for being vigilant about keeping them safe. Thank you. Information was found on the website the
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 02, 2022, 12:13:00 PM
Jackson rode near the head of the marching column. His face appeared flushed, and his eyes flashed in anticipation of the coming conflict. When he reached the intersection, he dismounted and spoke with Generals Lee, A.P. Hill, and J.E.B. Stuart. The informal council lasted but a few minutes. Jackson then pointed toward the head of his moving column and galloped off. It was the last time that he and Lee would ever meet.
Lee stated - "he has lost his left arm but i have lost my right"
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 03, 2022, 08:50:39 AM
Traditional Bedouin tents are made out of black goat hair. The Bedouin term for tent is buryuut hajar, which literally means "house of hair."

Dee Snider
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 06, 2022, 07:51:53 PM
158 years ago today in 1864, Robert E Lee in his first encounter with Ulysses S Grant personally rallies his men in the Battle of the Wilderness, holding off the Federal army and forcing them to disengage the next morning.
Grant would be the 6th commanding general to face Lee. The numbers and supplies would be in Grant’s favor, however Lee had a determined veteran army holding defensive positions in terrain they were familiar with. The battlefield would be a dense woods with tiny roads and a few pockets of clearings for farms. On the first day of the battle, the rebels managed to hold off the Federals and hope for much needed reinforcements to arrive the next morning. The woods caught fire and burned throughout the night, consuming many wounded men on both sides who could not escape the flames. Grant is reported in some of his staff’s memoirs to have wept the night after the battle, however he would wake up the next day determined to renew the attack.
On the 2nd day of the battle, the Federals were about to break through the center of the rebel position when Robert E Lee personally led a Texan brigade to hold the position in a famously recorded incident:
“Scarce had we moved a step, when Gen. Lee, in front of the whole command, raised himself in his stirrups, uncovered his grey hairs, and with an earnest, yet anxious voice, exclaimed above the din and confusion of the hour, "TEXANS ALWAYS MOVE THEM!”...never before in my lifetime or since, did I ever witness such a scene as was enacted when Lee pronounced these words, with the appealing look that he gave. A yell rent the air that must have been heard for miles around…”
Lee led 800 men across Widow Tapp’s field into a clearing that the Federal troops were marching on. Lee was spurring on his horse and encouraging the men to engage when the Texans noticed their general's foolhardy intention to remain with them as bullets whizzed by.  Alarmed for his safety the men began to repeatedly shout at the top of their lungs "LEE TO THE REAR!” One man ran up and grabbed his horse's reins as others personally pleaded “Go back, General Lee, go back!" The Texan general then approached Lee and helped him regain his senses to not risk his life. The men made way for Lee as he rode back through the cheering rebel troops.
Of the 800 soldiers who charged with Lee, all but 250 of them would be killed or wounded. But their sacrifice would delay the Federals long enough for additional reinforcements to stabilize their position.
By time nightfall came, the Federal army failed to gain any significant positions. Like many of their previous encounters with Lee, the Army of the Potomac woke up the next morning on May 8th expecting to retreat towards Washington D.C.  However, unlike his predecessors, Grant was not going to disengage after one bloody nose with Lee. To his cheering troops, Grant continued to march his army South and would fight continually over the next 5 weeks in what would become known as the Overland Campaign.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 07, 2022, 07:55:29 AM
The first drive-in movie theater opened in 1933 in Camden, New Jersey, the hometown of the young man who first came up with the idea.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 07, 2022, 07:58:28 AM
Traditional Bedouin tents are made out of black goat hair. The Bedouin term for tent is buryuut hajar, which literally means "house of hair."

Dee Snider
Is that that  guy in Twisted Sister?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 07, 2022, 08:05:14 AM
(https://www.assignmenttwitter.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/29_DeeSniderAND_SS_MG_7958.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 07, 2022, 08:48:33 AM
That Chic looks real happy - does she golf with you?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 07, 2022, 08:52:06 AM
Stuffed golf balls in her lips?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 07, 2022, 08:52:32 AM
and her bra
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 07, 2022, 08:52:41 AM
FORE!!!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 08, 2022, 08:44:42 AM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/279749471_547900373601018_8264389784167566498_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s640x640&_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-6&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=n_1-0iO0Z8UAX88Moqm&tn=_MnT8OkIfzNoswba&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT_Y-BMdB9BD32m-VOU4OTjPVuCWpCJFxIQTtoNLVtMbPA&oe=627CBCC5)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 08, 2022, 08:53:06 AM
Semper Fi!
Gerald Tommaso DeLouise (born April 30, 1940), DeLouise served a tour of duty in the United States Marine Corps from 1957 to 1959. While in the Marine Corps, he won 32 of 34 boxing bouts. He later became a professional boxer and compiled a 17–0 record under three aliases.


DeLouise is best known by his acting name Burt Young and his role as Paulie in the Rocky films.

(https://i.imgur.com/ggNJJGi.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 08, 2022, 09:03:40 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/QGVfJrq.png)

1955
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 09, 2022, 09:00:57 AM
Kentucky was originally part of Virginia, but on June 1, 1792, Virginia gave Kentucky permission to break off and become the 15th state of the United States.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 09, 2022, 09:05:51 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/oPklU96.png)

Stardate 0141.7: after almost 200 years of successful service, in the Terran year 2155 it was decided to once again upgrade the engines in the B-52H to ensure many further decades of operations. Block 117-85 specifications skipped completely over the previous plan to replace each dual-engine pod with single turbofans and instead removed the wing pylons completely, installing a pair of new space/warp propulsion units designed for a future heavy cruiser class. Rumors swirled that the BUFFs were so good at their jobs that the Constitution class was close to outright cancelation, but in the end the demand for better crew quarters and replicators won out. BUFFs remained in active service until well past the end of the Dominion War, and served valiantly at the Battle of Wolf 359.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 09, 2022, 09:07:23 AM
future history???
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on May 09, 2022, 11:58:30 AM
youre doing it again

no worky
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 12, 2022, 03:17:48 PM
Why historians believe Cinco de Mayo prevented the Confederacy's win in the Civil War

https://www.insider.com/how-cinco-de-mayo-prevented-the-confederacys-win-in-the-civil-war-2022-5 (https://www.insider.com/how-cinco-de-mayo-prevented-the-confederacys-win-in-the-civil-war-2022-5)

French Emperor Napoleon III had planned to trade weapons for cotton with Confederate states during France's invasion of Mexico.

However, Mexico's resolve at the Battle of Puebla in 1862 prevented France from supplying weapons to the Confederacy during the Civil War.

France retreated to Veracruz for a year giving the Union Army enough time to rack up victories against the Confederacy and end the war in 1865.


On May 5, 1862, the Mexican army defeated the French in the Battle of Puebla. This prevented French Emperor Napoleon III from supplying weapons to the Confederacy during the Civil War. Napoleon III had planned to trade weapons for cotton with the Confederate states during France's invasion of Mexico. But upon arriving at combat, the French found that they were unprepared to battle the resolve of the Mexican army.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on May 12, 2022, 06:54:04 PM
Kentucky was originally part of Virginia, but on June 1, 1792, Virginia gave Kentucky permission to break off and become the 15th state of the United States.
You sure you wanna do that?
Sure, why not?
Ha, there's all that coal there!
What's coal?
.....
....well, uh....not a fan of fried chicken?
What's that?
.....drink bourbon? 
Huh?
.
Never mind, just let 'em go!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 12, 2022, 10:53:55 PM
Ludolph van Ceulen (1540-1610) spent most of his life calculating the first 36 digits of pi (which were named the Ludolphine Number). According to legend, these numbers were engraved on his now lost tombstone.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2022, 01:00:18 PM
The story of bourbon is pretty interesting, I think, and a bit weird.  It's a French surname of course applied to a very typically American liquor.

And there are no distilleries in Bourbon County, KY today, the seat of which is a town called Paris.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2022, 04:27:25 PM
Soviet troops totaling about one million men attacked Finland on several fronts. The heavily outnumbered Finns put up a skillful and effective defense that winter, and the Red Army (https://www.britannica.com/topic/Red-Army) made little progress. In February 1940, however, the Soviets used massive artillery (https://www.britannica.com/technology/artillery) bombardments to breach (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/breach) the Mannerheim Line (https://www.britannica.com/topic/Mannerheim-Line) (the Finns’ southern defensive barrier stretching across the Karelian Isthmus (https://www.britannica.com/place/Karelian-Isthmus)), after which they streamed northward across the isthmus to the Finnish city of Viipuri (Vyborg (https://www.britannica.com/place/Vyborg)). Unable to secure help from Britain (https://www.britannica.com/topic/history-of-United-Kingdom) and France (https://www.britannica.com/topic/history-of-France), the exhausted Finns made peace (the Treaty of Moscow) on Soviet terms on March 12, 1940, agreeing to the cession of western Karelia (https://www.britannica.com/place/Karelia) and to the construction of a Soviet naval base on the Hanko Peninsula.

Having approached Germany without reaching a formal alliance, Finland allowed German troops transit through the country after the outbreak of war between Germany and the Soviet Union in June 1941. The Finns then joined the fight against the Soviets, undertaking the “War of Continuation.” An armistice (https://www.britannica.com/topic/armistice-law) signed on September 19, 1944, effectively concluded that conflict between the Soviet Union and Finland, contingent (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/contingent) on Finnish recognition of the Treaty of Moscow (https://www.britannica.com/event/Treaty-of-Moscow-1921) and the evacuation of German troops (who refused to leave). The formal end of the Soviet-Finnish conflict came with the signing of a peace treaty in Paris on February 10, 1947.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2022, 07:17:21 PM
Nowadays he is not well remembered, but in his time Alexander Humboldt was perhaps the most famous and widely-admired man in the world. A man of extraordinary genius who made ground-breaking discoveries in a wide range of scientific fields, Humboldt was best known as a naturalist, explorer, and world traveler. Prussian by birth, Humboldt spoke and wrote in several languages and lived for decades in Paris. Equally at ease lecturing in a prestigious European university, or trekking through a South American jungle, across the world Humboldt was regarded as the ideal modern man—a cosmopolitan polymath.

Humboldt had a special affinity for America and the ideals of the young republic (he once said that he considered himself “half American”), and Americans returned it in their admiration of him. Dozens of towns, counties and geographic features across America and named for Humboldt and the territory that came to be called Nevada was nearly named “Humboldt” instead.
Humboldt and Thomas Jefferson were mutual admirers. In 1804 Humboldt traveled to Washington to meet Jefferson, much to their mutual delight, with President Jefferson taking the opportunity to consult with Humboldt regarding America’s natural borders and to solicit his advice on the Louisiana territory.
There are more species of animals and plants named for Humboldt than for any other person. Among them are the Humboldt squid, the Humboldt penguin, the Humboldt hummingbird, the Humboldt skunk, the Humboldt orchid—the list goes on and on.
When Humboldt died at age 89, his loss was grieved across the world. In the United States, hundreds of thousands of people turned out for memorial services in his honor.
Alexander Von Humboldt died in Berlin on May 6, 1859, one hundred sixty-three years ago today.
The portrait is by Charles Willson Peale from 1805, when Humboldt was 35 years old. He sat for the portrait in 1804, during his visit to meet Thomas Jefferson. Humboldt helped revived Peale’s flagging career, and he was one of many American artists and writers inspired and encouraged by Humboldt (including, among many others, Thoreau, Poe, and the landscape painter Frederick Edwin Church).

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 14, 2022, 08:54:12 AM
Explorer Roy Chapman Andrews found the first dinosaur nest known to science in 1923 in the Gobi Desert of Mongolia. Before he found the nest, scientists were unsure how dinosaur babies were born.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 15, 2022, 07:34:11 PM
The Top 10 Largest Nuclear Explosions, Visualized

(https://www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Top-10-Largest-Nuclear-Explosions.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 15, 2022, 07:36:37 PM
The U.S.’ Trinity test in 1945, the first-ever nuclear detonation, released around 19 kilotons of explosive energy. The explosion instantly vaporized the tower it stood on and turned the surrounding sand into green glass, before sending a powerful heatwave across the desert.

As the Cold War escalated in the years after WWII, the U.S. and the Soviet Union tested bombs that were at least 500 times greater in explosive power. This infographic visually compares the 10 largest nuclear explosions in history.


https://www.visualcapitalist.com/largest-nuclear-explosions/ (https://www.visualcapitalist.com/largest-nuclear-explosions/)

(https://www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Anatomy-of-a-Mushroom-Cloud-1.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 19, 2022, 10:52:30 AM
All dogs can be traced back 40 million years ago to a weasel-like animal called the Miacis which dwelled in trees and dens. The Miacis later evolved into the Tomarctus, a direct forbear of the genus Canis, which includes the wolf and jackal as well as the dog.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 19, 2022, 03:15:09 PM
Known as the Kyshtym disaster or the Mayak disaster, at the time it was the worst nuclear disaster that the world had ever experienced. But neither the world nor the residents at the epicenter of the disaster really knew what was happening at the time. It would take at least 20 years for news of the disaster to reach the international community. And even then, many officials outside and within the Soviet Union continued to deny that a disaster ever took place.

Even in the 21st century, information about the Kyshtym disaster is hard to come by because there were so few reports made about it at the time in an attempt to keep the disaster a secret. Meanwhile, the full extent of the disaster remains unknown to this day, since it's difficult to determine whether illnesses are caused by radiation poisoning or not. But with the staggeringly high rates of illnesses in the area, it's hard to pretend nothing happened. These are some chilling details about the Russian nuclear disaster you've never heard of.

Chelyabinsk-40


The Soviet Union started building the closed town of Chelyabinsk-40 in 1946, later renaming it to Chelyabinsk-65, though it was located over 50 miles from the actual city of Chelyabinsk. The Guardian writes that the town was constructed secretly around a nuclear power plant and housed workers from all across the Soviet Union who were tasked with building an atomic bomb. After two years of construction by almost 35,000 soldiers, POWs, and Gulag prisoners, the town's plutonium power plant, known as the Mayak Production Association, was activated in 1948.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/chilling-details-about-the-russian-nuclear-disaster-you-ve-never-heard-of/ar-AAXrPOP?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=8f4dd23194d9483eb70ae86fd9cf94b8 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/chilling-details-about-the-russian-nuclear-disaster-you-ve-never-heard-of/ar-AAXrPOP?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=8f4dd23194d9483eb70ae86fd9cf94b8)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 22, 2022, 07:36:21 AM
Washington, DC, is home to two endangered species, the dwarf wedgemussel and the Hay's Spring amphipod.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 23, 2022, 09:08:52 AM
President Grover Cleveland (1837-1908) is the only president to be elected to two nonconsecutive terms. He was the 22nd and 24th president.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 23, 2022, 09:34:54 AM
When i started posting on the old CFN.com board Forum there was a vote for poster of the year - for a while
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 23, 2022, 09:48:15 AM
ask utee about it
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 23, 2022, 04:12:59 PM
President Grover Cleveland (1837-1908) is the only president to be elected to two nonconsecutive terms. He was the 22nd and 24th president.
Could happen again soon....
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 23, 2022, 04:13:35 PM
When i started posting on the old CFN.com board Forum there was a vote for poster of the year - for a while
We stopped that when we moved to Scout for some reason. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 23, 2022, 11:19:41 PM
Could happen again soon....
I hope not
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 26, 2022, 10:04:15 AM
Before Arthur MacArthur was 20 years old, he had already fought in several significant Civil War battles and survived being shot in the chest, his life likely spared by a packet of letters and a Bible placed close to his heart.

Almost two decades before his more famous son, Douglas, was born, MacArthur was a war hero and the recipient of the Medal of Honor for his actions at the Battle of Missionary Ridge.


Arthur MacArthur always wanted to be a soldier. When he was only 16 and living in Wisconsin, he approached several company commanders from one regiment that passed through Milwaukee in July 1861, pleading to join. He was declined by all, with one politely telling him that he should focus on being a better student than soldier. MacArthur is said to have replied, "I propose to do both, sir."

A year later, MacArthur lied about his age and, with the help of his father, a judge, was appointed the adjutant of the 24th Wisconsin Volunteer Infantry. A military career that lasted until 1909 started inauspiciously as MacArthur's abilities -- his youth and eagerness conspiring against him at times -- were doubted by superiors. MacArthur was determined, though, and began to prove himself, starting at the Battle of Perryville in Kentucky in October 1862 and then at the Battle of Stones River in Tennessee a few months later.


Then came Missionary Ridge on Nov. 25, 1863. Coming off being defeated soundly at Chickamauga, Union troops were surrounded as Confederate Gen. Braxton Bragg's forces lay siege to Chattanooga, Tennessee. Bragg's intent was to cut off the Union's supply lines and force it to surrender.

Soldiers were starving, with rations limited to "four cakes of hard bread and a quarter pound of pork every three days."

Maj. Gen. Ulysses S. Grant -- recently placed in command of all Union forces in the West -- acted decisively, replacing Gen. William Rosecrans with Gen. George Thomas, and opening the Cracker Line to get more food to the troops.


https://www.military.com/history/how-douglas-macarthurs-father-helped-deliver-death-knell-of-confederacy.html (https://www.military.com/history/how-douglas-macarthurs-father-helped-deliver-death-knell-of-confederacy.html)

Grant had another big concern. Worried about Gen. William T. Sherman's forces north of Missionary Ridge, he sought to relieve pressure on them by providing a distraction. Grant commanded Gen. Thomas Wood's men to attempt to seize the Confederate rifle pits at the base of the ridge. They weren't instructed to go any farther, but once they left themselves vulnerable to enemy artillery, staying put was not advisable.

Against orders, they charged up Missionary Ridge.

"Grant and those guys didn't want it to happen," Zobel said. "They only wanted to go to the lower part of [the ridge], but then they started taking all those potshots, and everybody was like, 'Oh, we can't even sit here. We have to go up this thing.'"

During the charge, the standard bearer of the 24th Wisconsin Volunteer Infantry went down -- accounts vary about whether he was killed or not -- and dropped the unit's flag. Fueled by instinct and adrenaline, MacArthur, an 18-year-old first lieutenant recently hospitalized with typhoid fever, grabbed the flag and ran full speed at the Confederates. After one hour of intense battle, MacArthur was the first Union soldier to summit Missionary Ridge.

"Alone between the two erupting lines, [MacArthur] was wounded twice on his way to planting the regiment's flag in almost the exact midpoint of the Confederate fortifications,'' according to the nonprofit American Battlefield Trust. "The men of the 24th surged after him and 15,000 more Union troops took heart and followed, rising up and smashing the Confederate center."

Missionary Ridge was the culmination of three battles on successive days that put Chattanooga and its key rail lines in Union hands and helped lay the groundwork for Sherman's Atlanta Campaign a year later. One southern soldier referred to the setback as "the death-knell of the Confederacy."

As for MacArthur, he was brevetted as a colonel in 1864, earning the moniker "the Boy Colonel." Besides his wounds at Missionary Ridge, MacArthur was injured during the Atlanta Campaign and was shot in the shoulder and knee at Franklin, Tennessee, in 1864.

MacArthur was bestowed the Medal of Honor for his actions at Missionary Ridge in 1890. He died while speaking at a reunion of the 24th in 1912. He was 67.

"At the podium he began, 'Your indomitable regiment ...' before collapsing," according to one account. "Moments later, he was dead. The old men of the 24th wrapped his body in the flag hanging on the wall, the flag he had carried to the top of Missionary Ridge as a teenager."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 26, 2022, 12:51:51 PM
ask utee about it
Why did he win then shut it down?Speaking of him where has he been?Hanging out with Bwarb? Haven't seen either post for a spell
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 26, 2022, 01:00:39 PM
not sure where they've been

the political crap here may have run them off

I did see something on Facebook a week or so ago including utee, seemed he was enjoying life

Perhaps Bwarb moved to Austin?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 26, 2022, 04:37:46 PM
The Horror
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2022, 04:54:10 PM
The Ukraine topic, I think, made them go away. Hopefully they will return. Great guys.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 26, 2022, 07:15:53 PM
The Ukraine topic, I think, made them go away. Hopefully they will return. Great guys.
I've still been reading. 

The NCAAT broke my Purdue fandom. I can no longer care. I don't think I'm going to watch either football or basketball going forward. And that means I don't care about recruiting, or conference realignment, or the transfer portal and NIL, etc. 

As for CFB51 in general, well, I haven't really wanted to talk about abortion, or gun control, or Ukraine (which has fallen out of the news despite still being a sh!tshow), or any of the other bullsh!t topics that have been dominating this place lately. The level of discourse on these topics--topics we used to avoid as a rule--is coarse. Not really causing me to want to interact. 

It's a shame, too... I've done some really good cooking lately and I know Nubbz has been missing the pictures. :57:

I have not moved to Austin, and I do not know 94's whereabouts. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: WhiskeyM on May 26, 2022, 09:56:11 PM
I've still been reading.

The NCAAT broke my Purdue fandom. I can no longer care. I don't think I'm going to watch either football or basketball going forward. And that means I don't care about recruiting, or conference realignment, or the transfer portal and NIL, etc.

You've got to bring yourself around to watching Purdue football again.

This is THE season for it.  Everything is falling into place for a run at the B1G West and finally playing for a CCG.

We finally have a seasoned QB and know for sure who will be the starter in week 1.  We also have a competent OL.

We are in Brohms 6th year.  He finally has the right pieces and culture in place.  This was the expected time frame to rebuild the Hazell disaster and the COVID year.

And honestly, probably a chance Brohm is gone after this year.  A successful season means others will come calling.  Ive long suspected he's waiting for an NFL job.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 27, 2022, 08:14:28 AM
I've still been reading.

The NCAAT broke my Purdue fandom. I can no longer care. I don't think I'm going to watch either football or basketball going forward. And that means I don't care about recruiting, or conference realignment, or the transfer portal and NIL, etc.

As for CFB51 in general, well, I haven't really wanted to talk about abortion, or gun control, or Ukraine (which has fallen out of the news despite still being a sh!tshow), or any of the other bullsh!t topics that have been dominating this place lately. The level of discourse on these topics--topics we used to avoid as a rule--is coarse. Not really causing me to want to interact.

It's a shame, too... I've done some really good cooking lately and I know Nubbz has been missing the pictures. :57:

I have not moved to Austin, and I do not know 94's whereabouts.
Well, we miss you.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 27, 2022, 09:14:16 AM
One of Uranus's moons, Miranda, is not like any other object in the solar system astronomers have discovered so far. It looks like it has been turned inside out.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 27, 2022, 11:42:08 AM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/5231_10200172334811285_85811379_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=ba80b0&_nc_ohc=rc024ffXmf4AX-cSBkw&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT_TwNTev8RNS0-EyBWd7JmOhkF3w_Em_vmLixaknBzgZA&oe=62B74BB5)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 27, 2022, 11:49:43 AM
Sioux City, Iowa -- 
When the U.S. Air Force F-100 Super Sabre that was on static display in Sioux City, Iowa was removed from its prominent position last fall the timing for a much needed makeover was perfect.

The Vietnam War era fighter jet at the Iowa Air National Guard looks like new again after being repaired and repainted. The restoration came just in time as the U.S. Air Force marks its 75th Anniversary this year.

https://www.185arw.ang.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/3045615/f-100-restoration-tribute-to-air-national-guard-legacy/fbclid/f-100-restoration-tribute-to-air-national-guard-legacy/ (https://www.185arw.ang.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/3045615/f-100-restoration-tribute-to-air-national-guard-legacy/fbclid/f-100-restoration-tribute-to-air-national-guard-legacy/)


Sioux City HA F-100
A U.S. Air Force F-100 Super Sabre on the ramp at the Iowa Air National Guard’s 185th Air Refueling Wing has been repaired and repainted in preparation to be placed back on static display. The Iowa Air National Guard unit flew the F-100 for 16 years between 1961 and 1977. U.S. Air National Guard photo Senior Master Sgt. Vincent De Groot
 (https://media.defense.gov/2022/May/26/2003006858/1200/1200/0/220526-Z-KZ880-010.JPG)



With its signature oval nose, curved fuselage and flat bottom the 1950’s era swept wing jet resembles a Formula 1 race car of the same time period. Every inch of the North American Aviation engineered aircraft was built for speed. Known as a “century series” fighter because of the “100” designation, the 2nd generation fighter was the first production run of supersonic fighters created for the U.S. Air Force.

Like many Air National Guard units the 174th Fighter Squadron of the Iowa Air Guard was first allocated aircraft, pilots and maintainers in 1946 following the 2nd World War. Fixed-wing flying units were not part of the newly formed Air National Guard however until a year later, when in September of 1947 the Air Force officially became a separate service.

The Iowa Air Guard’s 185th Air Refueling Wing, as it is known today had originally flown single seat fighter aircraft when they received castoff P-51 Mustangs after the war. The unit was equipped with variations of F-80 fighter jets during the 1950s but when the unit receive the F-100 in 1961 they had officially made the leap into the supersonic jet age.

In the years to follow the F-100 would go on to become a significant part of U.S. Air Force and Air National Guard history. During their 16 year run with the Super Sabre, the 174th Tactical Fighter Squadron was one of only four Air National Guard Fighter units who deployed with the F-100 for a yearlong deployment to Vietnam.

The 174th was joined by Colorado’s 120th, New Mexico’s 188th and New York’s 136th Tactical Fighter Squadrons, where each unit served a full year at air bases in South Vietnam starting in 1968. A fifth group of volunteer guard members from New Jersey and Washington, D.C. made up an active duty squadron, the 355th TFS, who also flew the F-100.

After their arrival in Vietnam, Air National Guard F-100 units quickly achieved the status being among most effective close air support units in theater.  Their performance during that time permanently erased the “flying club” image of the guard. The five squadrons accumulated a combined 30,000 combat sorties during their deployment to South Vietnam.

Much of the guard success of getting bombs on target and keeping aircraft flying was attributed to the maturity and experience of ANG pilots. Another significant contributing factor to their success was the combination of stability and ownership that ANG maintainers have with their aircraft.

During the 1970s Air Guard maintainers were credited with a significant F-100 upgrade when they were granted additional autonomy that came with sole ownership of the F-100.  ANG maintainers, who F-100 “Misty” pilot Jack Doub referred to as “really smart Air National Guard guys” retrofitted the F-100 with afterburners from retired F-102 aircraft. The improvement solved long standing issues with engine performance while solidifying the unique, total force contributions of the Air National Guard.

After giving up the Super Sabre in July 1977 the F-100 held the honor of being the longest piloted airframe in the Iowa Guard unit until a few years ago when it was surpassed by their current KC-135. In November of 2023 the unit will mark its 20th year flying the KC-135 Stratotanker.

Even after sixty years the recent F-100 restoration project had new 185th Fabrication Specialists honing freshly acquired tech school skills repairing badly deteriorated wing trailing edges. Other repairs, combined with the efforts of the co-located Air National Guard paint facility, ensured a high quality finished product that will keep the old aircraft in good shape for another 20 years.

The old jet with the iconic Sioux City “HA” on its tail is now ready to go back on its pedestal where it will serve as a tribute to Air National Guard members past and present.  The aircraft will again serve as a reminder of the shared heritage and contributions of those who flew and fixed the “HUN” for years to come.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 27, 2022, 12:35:51 PM
This is the RMS Queen Elizabeth pulling into New York with returning US Servicemen in 1945, after WW2 ended.
THANK YOU VETERANS, past and present.
www.soldiersolutionsllc.com


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t45.1600-4/281580042_23850457665700637_7190898723722173016_n.jpg?stp=c0.65.526.526a_cp0_dst-jpg_p526x296_q75_spS444&_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=67cdda&_nc_ohc=ZdPzHxNXntIAX-mo7Rg&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT-93CYErou7YfNtqhIqAfQ-6_ZYbfMpya4_ZaiaEsqc6g&oe=62952B21)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 27, 2022, 03:26:26 PM
I've still been reading.

The NCAAT broke my Purdue fandom. 
That was definitely a rough tournament.  Purdue had the red carpet rolled out and . . .

That said:
You've got to bring yourself around to watching Purdue football again.

This is THE season for it.  Everything is falling into place for a run at the B1G West and finally playing for a CCG.

We finally have a seasoned QB and know for sure who will be the starter in week 1.  We also have a competent OL.

We are in Brohms 6th year.  He finally has the right pieces and culture in place.  This was the expected time frame to rebuild the Hazell disaster and the COVID year.

And honestly, probably a chance Brohm is gone after this year.  A successful season means others will come calling.  Ive long suspected he's waiting for an NFL job.
I do think there is a decent chance for Purdue to compete for the B1G-W this year and with the impending elimination of divisions this year is probably the best chance Purdue will ever have at a CG appearance.  

Now I need to go look some stuff up to see if that makes sense:

B1G-E opponents for B1G-W teams:

Then there is the H/A split to consider, for Purdue, home:
Away:

It isn't easy but I could see it happening.  If the Boilers manage to win in Madison (10/22) I'd flat out pick them to make it.  Even if not, Wisconsin's tough crossover(@tOSU) is tougher than PSU's tough crossover (vs PSU).  Wisconsin also travels to East Lansing, Lincoln, Iowa City, and Evanston so it isn't ridiculous to say that Wisconsin could lose two or more league games.  That doesn't leave Purdue with much margin for error if they lose in Madison but it does provide them with a shot.  

It wouldn't be shocking for Wisconsin to lose three of their five league road games (basically tOSU and two out of MSU, UNL, IA, NU).  That gives Purdue a shot.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 28, 2022, 11:08:52 AM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/283012630_7548570745217974_1570779768155907116_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Q_YKa2VukTEAX9JgmkA&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT97LXktOUCawtJiAufja9zwfh5qT330wrOFsW3GIG1urA&oe=6296E3D7)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 28, 2022, 12:10:13 PM
Didn't know that FF - sharp lady
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 28, 2022, 12:16:35 PM
It's a shame, too... I've done some really good cooking lately and I know Nubbz has been missing the pictures. :57:

I have not moved to Austin, and I do not know 94's whereabouts.
Thank You for following protocol.And 94 I believe has been assigned Kidney Detail to combat the influx of CALI and us Yanquis type Hordes
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 28, 2022, 12:28:24 PM
Didn't know that FF - sharp lady
I didn't fact check it

found it on FB

but, why would someone make up that story?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 28, 2022, 12:33:59 PM
One from the way back archives... 2014 over Chino, California at sunset with three P-47 Thunderbolts (a fourth one is just out of frame trying to catch up). The world's only two flying Razorback P-47G Thunderbolts (built by Curtiss-Wright) 'Snafu' and the the other G model from Planes of Fame Air Museum lead while a bubble-top P-47D Thunderbolt 'Hun Hunter XVI' round up the third.

#aviation #aviationphotography #avgeek #airtoair #air2air #ww2 #worldwar2 #p47thunderbolt #p47s

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/283803245_10160033013288489_2765903490323828201_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p180x540&_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=5IMBR9lcI1oAX8693OY&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9XXkwhboyyGR-j4QAesupEsGdWL1g-u2zdTlHgafsLMg&oe=6296F7F9)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 28, 2022, 01:37:11 PM
I didn't fact check it

found it on FB

but, why would someone make up that story?
Well you make up golf scores

Damn 80+ yr old war birds,takes some stones to go up in one.Wonder if they are knock offs? They were incredible ground assault planes
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: WhiskeyM on May 29, 2022, 05:17:29 PM
The Vatican knew it had a winner on its hands with Allegri’s “Miserere” and, wanting to preserve its aura of mystery and exclusivity, forbade replication, threatening anyone who attempted to copy or publish it with excommunication. But that didn’t stop the teenaged Mozart.

Mozart listened to the song twice, transcribed it from memory, and committed one of the earliest known instances of musical piracy.

https://theimaginativeconservative.org/2017/09/allegri-miserere-mozart-vatican-terez-rose.html
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on May 29, 2022, 08:30:35 PM
When Mozart was my age hed been dead for 38 years
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 29, 2022, 11:29:50 PM
When Mozart was my age hed been dead for 38 years
And at that time people in the Cemetery where he was buried heard a strange scratching noise so they dug him up and found him using an eraser to erase music.

They asked what he was doing and he said . . .

Can't you see . . .

I'm decomposing. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 30, 2022, 07:52:14 AM
Motecuhzoma Xocoyotzin (Montezuma II), the 9th emperor of the Aztecs, was one of the most wealthy and powerful men in the world. He was also known as The Chocolate King. At the height of his power, he had a stash of nearly a billion cacao beans.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 30, 2022, 08:18:49 AM
in 1940, the Vought F4U Corsair flew for the first time. In 1943, the Corsair and F6F Hellcat (AKA the "Terrible Twins") destroyed 5 enemy planes for every U.S. plane lost. This 1944 photo is of factory-fresh Corsairs and Hellcats being prepared to be shipped to the Pacific.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/284976121_544452387343356_5901393899283464726_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s720x720&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=DR8HfLCyKI0AX9CsH69&tn=_MnT8OkIfzNoswba&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9zMN3Zc4bbZSycLnsG3eCZVB-s04z4rUfs4hjw6LTKWg&oe=6299A741)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 31, 2022, 08:16:13 AM
Every 11 years, solar activity surges. The sunspots that pepper the sun explode, hurtling massive clouds of gas known as "CMEs" through the solar system. This is called “solar maximum.”
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 31, 2022, 08:25:52 AM
And in the Little Ice Age, we had the Maunder Minimum of sunspots.

And guess where we are today?  On the low side of normal.

Solar Cycle progression | Solar activity | SpaceWeatherLive.com (https://www.spaceweatherlive.com/en/solar-activity/solar-cycle.html)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 31, 2022, 12:58:48 PM
in 1940, the Vought F4U Corsair flew for the first time. In 1943, the Corsair and F6F Hellcat (AKA the "Terrible Twins") destroyed 5 enemy planes for every U.S. plane lost. This 1944 photo is of factory-fresh Corsairs and Hellcats being prepared to be shipped to the Pacific.
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/284976121_544452387343356_5901393899283464726_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s720x720&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=DR8HfLCyKI0AX9CsH69&tn=_MnT8OkIfzNoswba&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9zMN3Zc4bbZSycLnsG3eCZVB-s04z4rUfs4hjw6LTKWg&oe=6299A741)
This is what doomed the Japanese, they couldn't even begin to compete with US productivity.  

My great-aunt (Dad's dad's sister) helped build Corsairs at the Blimp Building in Akron, Ohio.  The Goodyear produced Corsairs were F4U-G with the "G" indicating that they were built by Goodyear rather than Vought.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2022, 01:39:25 PM
156 years ago today in 1866, hardened Irish veterans from the American Civil War attack the Canadian province of Ontario in the Battle of Ridgeway.
Irish immigration to the United States increased greatly in the 19th century. During the largest political crisis in American history, the Irish immigrants showed loyalty to their home states and organized regiments for both sides in the upcoming War Between the States. After the war was over, many of these Irishmen reconnected with each other and were part of a secret society known as the Fenian Brotherhood. Since these men were now war veterans with military training, and in some cases still armed with military equipment, they decided to put it to use to aid their motherland.
The plan was to invade the nearby and lightly guarded British provinces in Canada to negotiate for Irish independence. British/Canadian authorities were alerted of the incoming invasion and hastily put together a militia to stop them. Due to the British government’s cozy relation with the Confederate States of America in the recent war. The U.S. authorities were slow and apathetic in helping the British stop the invasion. Although they would eventually intervene.
On the early morning of June 1st the Fenians began to cross the Niagara River in great numbers until U.S. authorities finally prevented them in the late afternoon. On June 2nd, a force of about 600 men that had crossed the border deployed skirmishers towards the village of Ridgeway. Deploying skirmishers was a common tactic during the American Civil War. A skirmisher line was used to provide reconnaissance and test the enemy’s position. The skirmishers were to engage the Canadian militia and lure them into the main Fenian force.
But these skirmishers were veterans of one of the largest exchanges in gunfire in history at that point. And when they came across the green Canadian militia of about 800 men. They pinned them down and caused panic. The main Irish force then charged with bayonets and sent the Canadians running allowing the Irish to briefly capture the village. The Fenian leaders quickly realized that their small force was in over their heads and retreated back into the United States.
The Battle of Ridgeway is considered Canada's first modern battle in the industrial era and the first fought exclusively by Canadian troops led by Canadian officers. There were 5 major Fenian raids over the next 5 years and all of them ended in failure. The raids would also be a catalyst for the confederation of Canada which occurred in 1867.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2022, 09:15:08 PM
The "Bent Wing Bird" took its first flight #OTD May 29, 1940!

#Aviation #WWII


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/283607481_10160709187020832_41639024950714734_n.png?stp=dst-png_p526x296&_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=9vdhdZ5gunkAX86FjQm&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT-2RV5Gs1TA7P79DbyKkhZN7cAReYdJfHOBlasBPrjDnQ&oe=629E2199)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2022, 09:34:56 PM
This was May, 1970 on FB Gladiator. Mortared every day. Our Machine Gunner was wounded by one of those rounds. As I said earlier this was one ugly Firebase. Robert Henningsen adds: My squad was first 'on the hill' when Gladiator was re-opened, Spring '70. A 'daisy cutter' was first dropped on the hill and it looked like an atomic bomb plume from the jungle floor. WE were the only Grunts to 'make the top' by dusk and it was "a long night" of 100 % guard duty on the crest. No Gooks showed up and we were happy to see the rest of our 2cd platoon and the boys of Company C show up in the morning. Photo by Franklin Bass

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/20727860_10209671417731529_5012357396192136788_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=19026a&_nc_ohc=G9Pwz2LSzgQAX9NG-Zw&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9HvCap_N0XYBu_oKEyN6RXyIynXbr0ZI3IrYvwQgKM6g&oe=62BFAD89)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2022, 10:29:14 PM
143 years ago today in 1879, Prince Imperial Napoléon IV, heir to the Bonaparte monarchy is killed during the Anglo-Zulu War.
Louis-Napoléon Bonaparte was born in Paris during the Second French Empire. His father Charles-Louis Napoléon Bonaparte was the nephew of Napoléon Bonaparte and seized power in 1852 anointing himself Emperor as Napoléon III. The Second French Empire under his leadership doubled the size of its overseas empire and repaired relations with Great Britain. However in July 1870 Napoléon III would enter into a war with Prussia with no allies and an inferior army. He would be captured in battle and Paris would abandon him declaring the Third Republic of France. The Bonaparte family would go into exile in England where the young Prince Imperial Napoléon IV would receive military training.
The young Prince was beloved and popular within political elite circles. He was a serious contender to marry one of Queen Victoria’s daughters, but the Prince first desired to experience military action. After applying great pressure he would get the opportunity to travel to South Africa and assist the British in their ongoing war with the Zulu people. He was attached to the staff of a Colonel in the Royal Engineers but the Prince’s eagerness for action found him volunteering to go along with reconnaissance missions as often as he could. Concerned for his safety, the British assigned personal guards to protect the young reckless Prince.
On the morning of June 1st the Prince insisted the reconnaissance mission planned for that day go earlier without full strength. The party dismounted and was resting in an abandoned Zulu village when suddenly 40 Zulu warriors ambushed them. The men escorting the Prince mounted their horses and did not attempt to fight, fleeing for their lives. Napoléon’s horse was spooked and began to run off before he could be fully mounted in the saddle. The Prince held onto a strap as the horse carried him to safety but the strap broke and the horse ran off with his carbine and a sword that belonged to Napoléon I.  His right arm was trampled and he pulled out a revolver with his left hand and began to run away, but four Zulu warriors rushed the Prince and one of their assegai was thrown through his leg. The Prince pulled the assegai from his leg and tried to fight with it using his trampled arm while shooting at the oncoming Zulus. He was overwhelmed and killed, and when his body was recovered it had 18 assegai wounds.
The Prince’s death sent shockwaves throughout England and France. He was only 23 years old and buried next to his father. His grieving mother made a pilgrimage to the location he was killed. And the best chance for a restoration of the Bonapartist Monarchy had died with him.
[Online References]
(https://www.historynet.com/the-death-of-a-prince-louis... )
(https://www.historyandheadlines.com/june-1-1879-the-last.../ )
(https://www.napoleon.org/.../napoleon-eugene-louis-jean.../ )
Artwork by Paul Jamin


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/285135244_457116752885683_3917515173323671158_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p180x540&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=yX5EvmdWzMAAX9eTJlR&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT_57YV1uJB4zI2SJlHiOnUzCPBwkJUDBGBWhsWwOVk57Q&oe=629EB581)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 05, 2022, 08:24:15 AM
The autoimmune disease Systemic Lupus Erythmatosus (SLE), or lupus, literally means wolf redness, because in the eighteenth century, physicians believed the disease was caused by a wolf bite.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 05, 2022, 09:09:35 AM
She was The Model for the Statue of Liberty.
Frédéric Auguste Bartholdi's model for the Statue of Liberty, was the beautiful Frenchwoman Isabelle Boyer, who was fist married to the American industrialist Isaac Merrit Singer-of sewing machine fame- and later to the Duke of Campo Selice of Luxembourg.
In 1878, the 36-year-old Duchess de Campo Selice attracted the attention of the sculptor who forever immortalized her features in the face of Lady Liberty.


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/280606997_10221504597865841_5223274649141878276_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=TDN1qc9BSN0AX_3cqQ6&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT_vCI2bKtvTH6_TPsjr6KpJJPN4dFs4V0xfKTOncs-dxA&oe=62A2882B)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 06, 2022, 03:32:59 PM
However in July 1870 Napoléon III would enter into a war with Prussia with no allies and an inferior army. 
Oops (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Prussian_War).  

I find the Franco-Prussian War to be fascinating.  When most present day people hear of a war between France and Germany they just immediately assume that Germany will of course win but at the time things were very different.  The "German" part of the war wasn't modern unified Germany but rather the "North German Confederation which was less populous than France.  Additionally, the Napoleonic Wars of the early nineteenth Century had only concluded about 55 years before.  For a modern comparison, 55 years ago today was 1967 or the height of the Vietnam War.  Thus there were still a LOT of veterans of the Napoleonic wars in the various countries of Europe and those wars were still very much in the public consciousness.  

I can't find a citation for it offhand but I've read that London's Newspapers were printing maps of "Probable French Invasion routes to Berlin" at the beginning of the war.  this is very interesting because Britain was neutral so these were not biased in favor of France.  If anything the British were more likely to be biased AGAINST France due to the history (Napoleonic Wars and prior) and the fact that France and decidedly NOT Germany was seen as Britain's chief rival.  

The results of the Franco-Prussian War were far-reaching and, to an extent, can still be felt today.  France was not just defeated but outright humiliated by the Germans and the victorious Bismark was able to leverage that into unification of nearly all German people under one nation for the first time in history.  The notable exception were those Germans living in Austria but the Austrian Germans ended up fighting on the same side as the rest of the Germans in WWI and birthing the man who would become fuhrer of a united (post Anschluss) Germany in WWII.  

Britain's long-time (literally centuries) rivalry with France cooled in the face of Germany as the new dominant power in Europe which led to Britain moving closer diplomatically to France and ultimately lead to Britain and France standing together in both World Wars of the Twentieth Century.  

France realized the need for allies in any potential conflict with the neighbor that was now stronger than they were which led to France dropping their conflicts with Russia (mostly dealing with Black Sea access) and cultivating improved relations with Germany's Eastern neighbor for mutual defense against potential German aggressions.  

Lessons from the war (some very wrong) were also important to later events.  Specifically, the end of the American Civil War had seen significant use of trench defensive fortifications and the horrors of static trench warfare began to be realized.  However the Franco-Prussian War was extremely short.  The whole thing only lasted barely over six months and for all practical purposes it was over with the surrender of Metz barely three months after the outbreak of hostilities.  Thus the power of the offensive was idolized and the lessons of the American Civil War were lost.  This led to literally thousands of unnecessary deaths in WWI as officers schooled in this belief in the offensive sent soldiers on hopeless headlong charges against entrenched defenders.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2022, 07:14:31 AM
Some Protestants viewed the Gregorian calendar as a Catholic plot.

Though Pope Gregory’s papal bull reforming the calendar had no power beyond the Catholic Church, Catholic countries—including Spain, Portugal and Italy—swiftly adopted the new system for their civil affairs. European Protestants, however, largely rejected the change because of its ties to the papacy, fearing it was an attempt to silence their movement. It wasn’t until 1700 that Protestant Germany switched over, and England held out until 1752. Orthodox countries clung to the Julian calendar until even later, and their national churches have never embraced Gregory’s reforms.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2022, 07:16:18 AM
The F-G war did have a considerable impact on the future, as you nicely note.  WW I had an impact on WW 2, as is more widely appreciated I think.

The Maginot Line was not really a failure, in my view, and Chamberlain was in a bad spot at Munich and had few options.  I can argue the ML expense would have been better applied to more tanks and planes, but without the strategy to go with same, meh.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 11, 2022, 08:00:19 AM
There were no women prisoners at Alcatraz. There were also no female guards or administrators.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2022, 02:08:16 PM
The Marquis de Lafayette arrived in South Carolina on June 13, 1777 to join the American Revolution. The French nobleman was nineteen years old and felt the fight for Liberty was linked to the happiness of all mankind. He bought a ship and sailed over.
George Washington and the young military man forged a long lasting friendship. Lafayette would name is son after George Washington in future years. In 1778 after being appointed a Major General, and serving as George Washington's aide-de-camp, taking part in the Battle of Brandywine, spending the winter at Valley Forge, he went back to France where he successfully persuaded the French to assist American forces. In 1780, Marquis de Lafayette returned to America and served in the Virginia campaign, which led to the surrender of Lord Charles Cornwallis in 1781.


Pictured is a statue of the Marquis de Lafayette that is located in NYC sculpted by Frédéric-Auguste Bartholdi, who also designed the Statue of Liberty.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2022, 02:11:03 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/1OcTxOh.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 13, 2022, 08:02:38 AM
The English words “boonies” and “boondocks” is actually based on the Filipino/Tagalog word for “mountain,” bundok. The word entered the North American vernacular in the 1940s, probably brought back by soldiers stationed in the Philippines during World War II.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2022, 01:12:02 PM
The legendary Chinese seafarer the West overlooks | NOVA | PBS (https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/zheng-he-china-explorer-ships/?fbclid=IwAR3J8K2VLDMR2ElUvB8s8bCl_Bg9b3rop7PAVLvHpl951s-t5hegTTWkv_w)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2022, 03:03:19 PM
This day in history 323.B.C.: Alexander the Great dies
Alexander the Great, the young Macedonian military genius who forged an empire stretching from the eastern Mediterranean to India, dies in Babylon, in present-day Iraq, at the age of 33.
Born in Macedonia to King Phillip II and Queen Olympias, Alexander received a classical education from famed philosopher Aristotle and a military education from his father. At the age of 16, Alexander led his first troops into combat and two years later commanded a large part of his father’s army that won the Battle of Chaeronea and brought Greece under Macedonian rule. In 336 B.C., Phillip II was assassinated, and Alexander ascended to the throne.
Two years later, the young king led a large army into Asia Minor to carry out his father’s plans for conquering Persia. Consistently outnumbered in his battles against superior Persian forces, Alexander displayed an unprecedented understanding of strategic military planning and tactical maneuvers. He never lost a single battle, and by 330 B.C. all of Persia and Asia Minor was under his sway.
Although Alexander controlled the largest empire in the history of the world, he launched a new eastern campaign soon after his return from Persia. By 327 B.C., he had conquered Afghanistan, Central Asia, and northern India. In the next year, his army, exhausted after eight years of fighting, refused to go farther, and Alexander led them on a difficult journey home through the inhospitable Makran Desert.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 15, 2022, 11:06:48 PM
In 1901, Connecticut set the first speed limit in the United States at12 mph.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 16, 2022, 12:49:55 PM
I have a theory this was a prime contributor to our war with Japan in 1941.

109 years ago today in 1913, American soldiers crush the last resistance of the Islamic Moros in the Philippines during the Battle of Bud Bagsak.
In 1898 the United States found itself in a war with the old colonial power Spain. The U.S. spent $250 million and 3,000 lives (90% from infectious diseases) to acquire the islands of Cuba, Guam, Puerto Rico, and the Philippines. Described as “A Splendid Little War” by its proponents, the conflict against Spain lasted just 3 months, 3 weeks and 2 days. However Americans would soon learn a tough imperial lesson over the next decade with their occupation of the Philippines.
While Spain was formally handing over the islands to the United States military, the Filipino people expected their sovereignty and ratified a Declaration of Independence that the U.S. did not acknowledge. Tensions boiled over into an armed insurrection where both sides went back and forth committing atrocities. As the rebellion became more violent, a large anti-imperialism movement arose in the United States that denounced the war that lasted for roughly three years. Once the main Filipino population was brought to heel in a similar fashion the Americans made their native Indians submit, they focused their attention to the southern islands of the Philippines on the Moro people, a large Islamic minority.
In the 13th century, Muslim missionaries from the Persian Gulf arrived to this portion of the Philippines and converted the natives to Islam and established Sultanates across the isles. The Moros were a tribal people broken apart into smaller factions led by a leader called a Datu, and the Datus would be under the control of a Sultan. For centuries the Moros were known as brutal raiders and pirates towards their Christian and Pagan neighbors. When the Spanish had taken control of the Philippines in the 1500’s, for over three hundred years they fought the Moros but could not bring them under control. The Moros were primarily melee fighters using double edged blades called a kris, kalise, or barong. They were also expert guerrilla fighters who engaged in unsuspecting suicidal jihad attacks that the Spanish called “Juramentados.”
With the arrival of the United States military into Moroland, it didn’t take long for American soldiers to be killed by Moro guerrillas. Starting from 1903 and lasting all the way until 1913, the United States made slow progress bringing Moro territory under their control through punitive expeditions against rebellious Datus who took shelter in their mountaintop fortresses called cottas. The United States found the Moro customs repulsive and over time forced them to abolish slavery and polygamy. Numerous reports from American soldiers over the decade long insurrection commented on the Moro berserker-like tendencies where they would consume Areca nuts with stimulant-like properties and could sustain many gunshots in combat. The standard sidearm of the U.S. military, the .38 revolver was proven to be obsolete and helped spawn the invention and adoption of the 1911 .45 pistol.
The struggle with the Moros would catapult John J. Pershing’s early military career and he would ultimately be the third and final military governor of Moroland. In 1911 Pershing suggested and enforced a complete disarmament of the Moro people which would lead to their last resistance in two pitched battles. Their last stand would be made at the top of Mount Bagsak on the island of Jolo starting June 11th, 1913. Following previously successful tactics, Pershing would besiege the mountain and bring up heavy artillery to use against the primitive melee warriors with outdated firearms. On June 15th the final assault was made and all 500 Moro rebels, including the women and children, would be killed and the Americans would suffer 39 casualties.
The anti-imperialist movement would use the suppression of the Moro people and occupation of the Philippines as their top issue. Author Mark Twain denounced the occupation and American industry mogul Andrew Carnegie even offered to purchase the Philippines from the US Government to implement better policy. Today it is an unknown and overlooked conflict in American History. The Islamic Moro people are still the largest non-Christian minority in the Philippines and continued insurrection throughout the 20th century, including as recent as 2018 against Filipino president Rodrigo Duterte.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 16, 2022, 01:13:08 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/iadoEj0.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 17, 2022, 09:14:53 AM
https://youtu.be/f9Gb4PakFTU?list=PLSnt4mJGJfGjOqKgHe1_b8pIq-bZewEfA

can't make this shyt up
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 17, 2022, 10:01:15 AM
I have a theory this was a prime contributor to our war with Japan in 1941.
the Japanese just didn't like the US presence in the Philippines?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2022, 11:14:31 AM
We cut off Japanese oil because of China.  They were pretty desparate for oil, and they could obtain it in SE Asia, Borneo, Indonesia, etc.  However, the PI were astride the shipping lanes from there to Japan, so they felt PI had to be neutralized.  The initial plan was to invade the PI only and wait for the US response and sink our fleet mixPacific somewhere.  Yamamoto came up with a new plan which was adopted, which was a tactical success and huge strategic failure as they missed the carriers and many of the sunk BBs were refloated and repaired, which could not have happened in deep waters.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on June 17, 2022, 11:24:50 AM
We cut off Japanese oil because of China.  They were pretty desparate for oil, and they could obtain it in SE Asia, Borneo, Indonesia, etc.  However, the PI were astride the shipping lanes from there to Japan, so they felt PI had to be neutralized.  The initial plan was to invade the PI only and wait for the US response and sink our fleet mixPacific somewhere.  Yamamoto came up with a new plan which was adopted, which was a tactical success and huge strategic failure as they missed the carriers and many of the sunk BBs were refloated and repaired, which could not have happened in deep waters.
They also made the mistake of not taking out the oil storage area
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2022, 11:28:54 AM
Yeah, they also needed that third strike.  Dry docks as well.  That would have meant the main fleet would have had to go back to California.  They could not have supported Pearl very well beyond subs and some lighter ships.

It is amazing to me that Midway happened just a few months later.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 17, 2022, 11:44:17 AM
We cut off Japanese oil because of China.  They were pretty desparate for oil, and they could obtain it in SE Asia, Borneo, Indonesia, etc.  However, the PI were astride the shipping lanes from there to Japan, so they felt PI had to be neutralized.  The initial plan was to invade the PI only and wait for the US response and sink our fleet mixPacific somewhere.  Yamamoto came up with a new plan which was adopted, which was a tactical success and huge strategic failure as they missed the carriers and many of the sunk BBs were refloated and repaired, which could not have happened in deep waters.
What is fascinating to me is how short the window was during which war with not only the US but also Britain, their empire, and the Netherlands seemed like a logical idea for the Japanese. 

First, you have to understand that while many Japanese were fanatical and most of them believed strongly in Japanese racial superiority, they weren't altogether stupid.  They knew that the US alone had a VASTLY larger industrial capacity so they understood that if the US stuck to the war they (the Japanese) would eventually face fleets far larger than they could possibly hope to build and thus hopeless odds. 

Knowing this, they saw war as a logical idea anyway basically because of their experience in the Russo-Japanese War of 1904/5 and in WWI. 

In the Russo-Japanese War the Japanese also faced a country with a larger industrial base and a larger fleet but much like the US in the 1940's, Imperial Russia in 1904 had multiple naval commitments (The Baltic, the Black Sea, the Mediterranean,  the Atlantic, the Pacific).  The Japanese prevailed over the Czar because the Czar had other problems while Japan could focus exclusively in the Pacific and also because Imperial Russia in the early twentieth century was teetering dangerously close to collapse. 

In WWI the Japanese basically just picked the right side.  They joined the war on the allied side, nabbed a bunch of German and Austrian Pacific colonies while the Germans and Austrians were preoccupied and unable to do anything about it, then waited for the end of the war and viola, they got a bunch of stuff for not much engagement in the actual fighting of the war. 

So the background is that history, their belief in Japanese racial superiority, and their belief that the Americans were fat playboys unwilling to do any real fighting.  Then, from the German blitzkrieg over France up until the Germans were turned back at the gates of Moscow it looked to a lot of observers like the Germans would win the European war. 

The Pearl Harbor Raid or "Hawaii Operation" as the Japanese called it, utilized six large fleet carriers.  The last two of them to be built were the Shokaku Class Carriers Shokaku and Zuikaku where were commissioned on August 8, 1941 and September 25, 1941 respectively.  As it turned out the American defenses in Hawaii were so grossly deficient that the Japanese probably could have been successful with just the four older carriers but the Japanese didn't know that in advance.  Their prewar analysis would have indicated that they needed the six carriers because otherwise they'd have faced the possibility of being outnumbered by the American carrier planes to say nothing of land based American air power.  Thus, the operation wasn't believed to be feasible until these two carriers were commissioned and ready for battle.  I don't know exactly when Zuikaku was "ready for battle" but frankly it is awfully impressive that a ship commissioned on 9/25/41 was involved in a major combat operation barely two months later so it can't have been much before the actual raid. 

Meanwhile, the Soviet Counter-Offensive outside Moscow began on December 5, 1941 just two days before the Pearl Harbor raid.  That timing is NOT coincidental as Stalin's spy in Tokyo had notified the Kremlin that the Japanese would be attacking the US and other Western Powers in the Pacific rather than joining Germany's war against the Soviet Union and this information permitted the transfer of more than 18 divisions  from Siberia and the Far East to the war against Germany. 

Just a month later the Soviets had pushed the Germans back from the gates of Moscow and established a more defensible line.  If the Hawaii Operation had been delayed by a month it is possible (maybe not likely) that cooler heads may have prevailed in Japan.  Somebody in Japan might have looked at the situation in Europe and said "hey, Germany might not win this thing, we might be wise not to get into it on their side." 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2022, 11:58:26 AM
Japan faced a very tough choice regarding oil though, they were cut off, and running out, fast.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 17, 2022, 12:25:33 PM
Japan faced a very tough choice regarding oil though, they were cut off, and running out, fast.
Agreed and their country was run by hotheaded Army guys who were outright nuts.  That is why I said it might not have been likely that cooler heads would have prevailed even if the PH raid had been delayed a month.  

The US Oil embargo was joined by the UK and the Dutch (who were governing as a "government in exile" in London) so Japan had to either back down (to get the embargo lifted) or go to war (to take the oil).  My point was simply that had they KNOWN that the Germans were going to lose in Europe they (or at least most Japanese people) would have also known by extension that they couldn't win a war against undistracted versions of the UK, US, and Netherlands.  At that point the only option is to back down.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2022, 12:27:33 PM
Maybe so, it's possible, though of course the Germans made another pitch to win in 1942 that had a chance.

Case Blue.  One of the interesting German offenses in WW 2.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 17, 2022, 03:26:35 PM
Maybe so, it's possible, though of course the Germans made another pitch to win in 1942 that had a chance.

Case Blue.  One of the interesting German offenses in WW 2.
Eh, yes and no.  I think that Case Blue was a relative longshot with only a remote chance of actually winning the war for the Nazi's.  They had a not altogether impossible chance of cutting off Soviet access to the Caucasian Oil but their chances of actually acquiring the oilfields, a transportation network to refineries, refineries, and a transportation network to where the oil was needed were remote at best.  Even if they had cut off Soviet access to Caucasian oil, the Soviets still had other oil and the US could have increased shipments as well so the Soviet War Machine wouldn't have suddenly stopped in its tracks completely (this is not to say that it wouldn't have been a problem for the Soviets and their allies).  

IMHO, the only significant chance the Nazi's had to get a different result out of the war would have been to knock the Soviets out as the Kaiser had done in his war a quarter-century earlier.  That, combined with having already occupied France and having Italy as an ally rather than an enemy would have presented the US and UK with an incredibly difficult proposition of trying to assault "Fortress Europe".  

I know you know but most Americans don't realize that as important as the D-Day landings were, at the time 80% of the German Army was fighting the Soviets on the Eastern Front.  There is simply no way that the US and UK would have been ready to make such a landing against an undistracted Germany for at least another year or two.  Thus, had the Germans managed to knock the Soviets out, the war would have either been ended in some sort of Nazi/UK/US compromise or decided after the development of Atomic Weapons in 1945.  

Knocking the Soviets Out:
Stalin is widely reputed to have gone into a virtual coma in the early weeks after the Nazi invasion.  The bad news for the Soviets came swiftly and just didn't stop for months.  The German advance from the frontier to the gates of Leningrad and Moscow is just astounding.  I once read that when FDR's personal envoy to Stalin was travelling from Britain to Archangel aboard a British warship in late 1941 he wrote in his diary that "the English are consistent, since I've been with them they have been saying that the Soviets will hold out for another two weeks."  It really was that touch-and-go for a while.  

Plenty of historians will tell you that there is "plenty of land behind Moscow" and that the Soviets could have lost Moscow and stayed in the war but I'm not so sure.  Moscow wasn't just a city or even the biggest city in the Soviet Union, it was also the largest manufacturing center, the transport hub, and the center of command and control.  Finally, there is a psychological impact to losing your capital.  In theory the Soviets could have just retreated some more and kept fighting but as a practical matter I'm not sure that they would have.  

The Germans got incredibly close to capturing Moscow.  One of the history books I have at home has a picture of a wrecked German tank with the spires of the Kremlin visible in the background.  That is CLOSE.  Maybe if they had focused on a single goal rather than changing priorities at Hitler's whim or if they hadn't had to spend the spring bailing out Mussolini's invasion of Greece they might have gotten there.  If that had been enough to knock the Soviets out of the war then who knows if Churchill's government in the UK would even have survived.  Remember that the US was still officially neutral (although providing billions of dollars worth of military and other supplies and fighting an undeclared naval war in the Atlantic against the U-boats).  A Germany that had possession of all of France and what they wanted of Russia would have been far too much for the UK to face alone.  

It is impossible to say what the ultimate impact of Germany knocking the Soviets out of the war would have been.  It might have been decisive in their favor or it might simply have led to millions of additional German Civilian casualties as their cities were vaporized by Anglo-American Atomic weapons.  That said, I think the Germans had a decent chance of accomplishing the goal of knocking out the Soviets in 1941 but not so in 1942 and beyond.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2022, 04:27:08 PM
Guderian, who was very self serving, claimed as much in his book.  Others of course were more cautious about what a concerted drive on Moscow would have achieved.  The drive south on Kiev did bag a lot of Russians, but it also delayed Guderian for around a month.  On the other hand, his tanks were wearing out.  Tanks have tracks and engines and even main gun barrels that need servicing or replacing.  

I've played a neat computer game, which doesn't mean much of course, and I can usually take Moscow.  The better course I learned was to take Leningrad, link up with the Finns, let them play defense, and come down on Moscow from the NW.  That is with me playing both sides.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 17, 2022, 04:48:39 PM
Guderian, who was very self serving, claimed as much in his book.  Others of course were more cautious about what a concerted drive on Moscow would have achieved.  The drive south on Kiev did bag a lot of Russians, but it also delayed Guderian for around a month.  On the other hand, his tanks were wearing out.  Tanks have tracks and engines and even main gun barrels that need servicing or replacing. 

I've played a neat computer game, which doesn't mean much of course, and I can usually take Moscow.  The better course I learned was to take Leningrad, link up with the Finns, let them play defense, and come down on Moscow from the NW.  That is with me playing both sides.
Guderian, as you pointed out, is infamously self-serving in his book.  So many of the German high-command died either in the war, by suicide, or in the immediate postwar trials that a lot of the survivors found it convenient to blame every shortcoming on somebody who wasn't around to defend themselves.  

The logistical issues that you brought up were obviously a MAJOR problem for the Germans and only got worse the deeper they got into Soviet territory.  Someone once said that amateurs study tactics while experts study logistics and there is a lot of truth to that.  Tank tactics are irrelevant if you don't have fuel and ammunition for said tanks and equally irrelevant if your tanks are sidelined waiting for barrels, tracks, or other spare parts.  If Barbarossa had jumped off a month earlier maybe the Germans would have gotten to the outskirts of Moscow a month earlier and taken it or maybe they would simply have run out of fuel, ammunition, and spare parts a month earlier but in the same spot, who knows.  

The German failure to take Leningrad was obviously a major issue later.  Even though Leningrad was besieged and of little use to the Soviets, it still was an existing Soviet area that the Germans had to maintain a front line against and that takes men, equipment, and supplies that could otherwise have been employed elsewhere (such as Moscow or Stalingrad).  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2022, 05:41:31 PM
Interestingly enough, the late start (June 22) was caused in part by Mussolini.  I have read an earlier start would have been held up by weather but I don't know if that is the case.  And yes, a month up front could well have been pivotal.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2022, 05:44:56 PM
On This Day in History > June 17, 1775:
Patriots lose the Battle of Bunker Hill

"On this day in history, June 17, 1775, patriots lose the Battle of Bunker Hill, the first major battle of the American Revolution and the bloodiest of the entire war. The Battle of Bunker Hill began when patriots surrounding Boston learned that British commanders were planning to break out and take the hills around the city. The very green and untrained militia was surrounding the city after chasing the British back to Boston after the opening shots of the war at the Battles of Lexington and Concord.
The British were planning to break out of the town on June 18, but a businessman from New Hampshire visiting the city alerted the patriots after overhearing the plan. At this time, the militia was under the command of Massachusetts General Artemas Ward. The Continental Army was only authorized in Philadelphia on the 14th and George Washington appointed its leader on the 15th. The events that unfolded on Bunker Hill and Breed's Hill occurred several weeks before Washington arrived and took over.
On the night of June 16, 1200 soldiers entered the Charlestown Peninsula north of Boston under Colonel William Prescott. Prescott's orders were to build fortifications atop Bunker Hill on the northwest part of the peninsula. Prescott disobeyed the orders and built atop Breed's Hill instead, which was further south and closer to Boston. This defiance of orders was typical of American movements at the time since the militia was made up of units from different counties and cities with no established chain of command.
Across the water in Boston, British General Thomas Gage was informed of the American movements early on the 17th. He began preparing an assault on the peninsula, but the soldiers took their time and didn't begin landing until late in the afternoon. By 3:00 the British began their first assault. American commanders had ordered their soldiers not to fire until the British were within close range in order to assure that every bullet would count since they were very low on ammunition.
The first British assault turned into a massacre as the Americans fired on them as they marched up the hill on Prescott's position. Colonel John Stark repelled another attack on the left flank by British Major General William Howe. Dozens and dozens of British soldiers fell and the survivors were forced to retreat. A second assault had the same results. The British regrouped once again for a third assault, but this time the Americans on Breed's Hill ran out of ammunition. British soldiers crawled over their own dead comrades to get to the top of the hill where hand to hand combat began. The British, who were better equipped with bayonets, finally drove the Americans back across Bunker Hill and across the Charlestown Neck.
The Battle of Bunker Hill was a victory for the British since they took the peninsula, but at an enormous cost, suffering over 1,000 casualties! 226 were killed and over 800 injured. A large chunk of Britain's officer corps in North America was killed or wounded, including the entire field staff of General Howe. The Americans lost 115 killed and 300 wounded, including the President of the Massachusetts Provincial Congress, Dr. Joseph Warren.
News of the battle shocked London to its core. It finally realized that the Americans were not the "rabble" they were thought to be, but a formidable fighting force. The battle also hardened Americans and persuaded many to join the revolutionary cause. The battle was a strategic stalemate, having no real value to either side, but to strengthen their resolve. George Washington would arrive in July and begin the task of forming the militia into an orderly and effective army. They would finally force the British to abandon Boston the following year."
[color=var(--blue-link)]Revolutionary-War-and-Beyond.com (http://revolutionary-war-and-beyond.com/?fbclid=IwAR3Yer_5S4HfDILXDnW67RPDzUqWz_xaAj5Q2Yk-gQpDbjAQFO0iecUWqOI)
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Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 17, 2022, 07:08:54 PM
 if they hadn't had to spend the spring bailing out Mussolini's invasion of Greece they might have gotten there.  
yup
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 17, 2022, 08:29:41 PM
Had Der Fuhrer left Manstein/Paulus/Model alone the would have at least fought to a draw.Course the 427,000 Studebakers Uncle Sam sent Uncle Joe got their troops/rocket launchers/artillary to the front  along with what 10 million pairs of boots and the 1,300 locomotives
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 18, 2022, 07:55:21 PM
[color=var(--primary-text)]The Dardanelle Pontoon Bridge connected the town of Dardanelle, Arkansas to Russellville across the Arkansas River from 1891 to the early 1920s.
 "It consisted of a series of 72 boats overlaid with wooden planks. It opened for traffic in 1891, and for the small fee of 5 cents an individual could walk across the span to the other side. The cost for wagons was 25 cents, and when cars came along they were charged 50 cents. When a steamboat needed to pass up or down the river, several of the boats were allowed to swing free providing an opening through which the boat passed. Once the boat passed, the pontoons were pulled back into place and connected, and the bridge was ready again for use. Eventually it was replaced in the 1920s by a traditional bridge." (Times Record)
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[color=var(--primary-text)](https://i.imgur.com/547BBFF.png)[/color]
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2022, 10:51:12 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/63HhFn0.png)

I don't know which airport or if this is true of course.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2022, 10:59:00 AM
This Is How Dirac Predicted Antimatter (wondersofphysics.com) (https://www.wondersofphysics.com/2020/07/this-is-how-dirac-predicted-antimatter.html?fbclid=IwAR1SnbHa38uEkW60l-dEjthXVKrDbVics34jCjmPYmKOCPUeOW7Eyq5eqqg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on June 19, 2022, 11:01:18 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/63HhFn0.png)

I don't know which airport or if this is true of course.
Lived here all my life and know for a fact that our main airport Bush International has never moved the baggage claim nor at Hobby our other airport

looks like fake news to me
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2022, 11:10:43 AM
How a longer walk to baggage reclaim cut complaints | Health & wellbeing | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/sep/07/how-to-beat-bottlenecks-oliver-burkeman)

Further study revealed that passengers spent one minute walking to baggage claim, then seven waiting, prompting some bright spark to devise a solution: switch the arrival gate, so the walk took far longer. The result was less time standing around, and much less grumbling.


I don't know how they could switch the arrival gate to any benefit.  This could well be an urban legend.

United upgrade at Bush airport aims to reduce waits for baggage (chron.com) (https://www.chron.com/business/article/United-upgrade-at-Bush-airport-aims-to-reduce-13477461.php)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2022, 11:15:55 AM
We were waiting in the lounge in ATL looking out over the airport and it's pretty amazing to see all the baggage carts going hither and yon and getting separated and directed to the right place.  Most folks who fly into ATL are changing planes, so it's doubly challenging, it would be fun to see how they do it.  I'm amazed they don't  lose more stuff.

Take a look inside the world´s busiest airport´s baggage handling operations - Power Stow (https://powerstow.com/take-a-look-inside-the-worlds-busiest-airports-baggage-handling-operations/)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on June 19, 2022, 12:13:19 PM
How a longer walk to baggage reclaim cut complaints | Health & wellbeing | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/sep/07/how-to-beat-bottlenecks-oliver-burkeman)

Further study revealed that passengers spent one minute walking to baggage claim, then seven waiting, prompting some bright spark to devise a solution: switch the arrival gate, so the walk took far longer. The result was less time standing around, and much less grumbling.


I don't know how they could switch the arrival gate to any benefit.  This could well be an urban legend.

United upgrade at Bush airport aims to reduce waits for baggage (chron.com) (https://www.chron.com/business/article/United-upgrade-at-Bush-airport-aims-to-reduce-13477461.php)


They may have improved baggage operations but never relocated the actual baggage area
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 19, 2022, 05:44:03 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/288163790_556482179251437_5092842737146031618_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s640x640&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=kqbRLOZwNRYAX9q0lh6&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT-koyFcvvrkInUV5uRUAwUv4HChAGlBuUZ8b4hjtI_KNQ&oe=62B4003D)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 19, 2022, 09:36:09 PM
Bermuda has 3 full golf courses.  Water isn't an issue, lol,
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 19, 2022, 10:29:58 PM
as you know from being in Zona, ya don't need fresh potable water to keep fairways, tee boxes, and greens green
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 19, 2022, 11:39:03 PM
You just need $$$
.
Meanwhile, Lake Mead (outside of Vegas) has dropped about 5 feet in the past 2 weeks.  The Hoover Dam may no longer produce any power if this continues.  It's basically had an all-time new low every week since March 1.  America's largest reservoir has 26% the area of when it's a full depth. 
.
But let's have lots of golf courses in the desert.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 20, 2022, 07:33:45 AM
Lake Mead is suffering because of low snow melt upstream, in addition to water usage of course.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 20, 2022, 08:34:12 AM
unfortunately the Yellerstone area doesn't flow to Lake Mead
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 20, 2022, 08:38:56 AM
The Great Wall of China was actually built in Inner Mongolia in the 6th century A.D.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on June 20, 2022, 09:42:01 AM
The Great Wall of China was actually built in Inner Mongolia in the 6th century A.D.
how random of you
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 20, 2022, 09:51:25 AM
The Mongols were preeiminent in the 13-14th century AD and the Wall did little to deter them.  High winds did once.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2022, 07:29:19 PM
Island Park, Wichita, KS, June 21, 1925 - This tony ballpark is mostly obscure to even the most knowledgeable baseball fan, but 97 years ago on this date it might have been the host to one of the most unimaginable matchup of two teams one could contrive – a squad of Klu Klux Klan vs one of Negro Leaguers.
But it did happen and from all accounts an epic game to witness. The Negro League team was the Wichita Monrovians, a solid unit that mostly barnstormed. They came into the game with a 52-8 record against mostly top amateur clubs and many of these teams were white.
The Klu Klux Klan nine was a local Wichita club that went by the name “Number 6 team”. Little else is known about them or their players who participated in this game.
As for motivation it’s easier to understand why the Monrovians would agree to this game, for one they’re more of a professional team and playing was their way to earn a living. And second, what African-American young man of that era, or any other for that matter, wouldn’t the relish the opportunity to stick it to bigots.
For the Klu Klux Klan it was a little more complicated, but at the time Kansas had a newspaper publisher by the name of William Allen White that was running for Governor in 1924 and was strongly anti-Klan. He was also campaigning to abolish the white supremacist group (I like this guy already) while calling them “self-constituted body of moral idiots.”.
So the sentiment was starting to turn in Kansas against the Klu Klux Klan, and the hate group saw this as a chance to invoke some positive public relations, and hence agreed to the contest.
With both teams agreeing to play and promised a clean game, the attention turned to the fans, at the time it was thought that the Wichita area had up to 6,000 Klan members. Violence from this end was a concern, so much that when a local paper printed an article announcing the game they added:
“Strangle holds, razors and horsewhips, and other violent implements of argument will be barred at the baseball game at Island Park…when the baseball club of Wichita Klan Number 6 goes up against the Wichita Monrovians, Wichita’s crack colored team.
The colored boys are asking all their supporters to be on hand to watch (the) contest…due to the wide difference of the two organizations….the novelty of the game will attract a large crowd of fans altho [sic] both teams say that all the fans will see is baseball”
To make sure the umpires were impartial and without bias, the game was officiated by two white Catholics, ‘Irish’ Garrety and Dan Dwyer.
At game time it was a blistering 102 degrees with strong winds and both teams in the first five innings had scored one run. But then the bats from both sides got cooking in the heat and a tight game turned into a sew saw battle with the Monrovians at the end being on top by a 10-8 score.
Victory was theirs and hate had lost the day.
-Ron A. Bolton

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 21, 2022, 07:47:41 PM
Gotta luv baseball 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 21, 2022, 08:50:15 PM
https://youtu.be/wUgwRkXxTDA
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 22, 2022, 08:04:49 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Cuyahoga River Catches Fire (1969)

Famously described in a Time magazine article as a river that "oozes rather than flows" and a waterway in which a person "does not drown but decays," Ohio's Cuyahoga River used to be so heavily polluted that it actually caught fire—on more than one occasion. The river fire of 1969, which received national media attention, helped spur the environmental movement of the late 1960s and prompted the creation of the US Environmental Protection Agency.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 22, 2022, 10:05:36 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Cuyahoga River Catches Fire (1969)

Famously described in a Time magazine article as a river that "oozes rather than flows" and a waterway in which a person "does not drown but decays," Ohio's Cuyahoga River used to be so heavily polluted that it actually caught fire—on more than one occasion. The river fire of 1969, which received national media attention, helped spur the environmental movement of the late 1960s and prompted the creation of the US Environmental Protection Agency.
Definitely not Cleveland's finest moment but it was the inspiration for this fine creation.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2022, 11:13:21 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/W08UdwE.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 22, 2022, 12:39:22 PM
Definitely not Cleveland's finest moment but it was the inspiration for this fine creation.
They leave out Rivers caught fire in Chicago/Pittsburgh/New York also.The story I had read was one Johnny Carson's head writers were from the area.So the Town was used as foil rather than upset ethnics or "The Big Apple".The good thing is today the ecosytem of the plants and wildlife,flowers even plankton in the River have reestablished it self. Real nice taking a stroll thru the  Cuyahoga Valley National Park and along the river,creek and canals.Specialy on hot day  the canopy of trees cools the temps quit considerably
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 22, 2022, 01:55:14 PM
From The Tank Museum: Capturing The Monstrous Jagdtiger (warhistoryonline.com) (https://www.warhistoryonline.com/military-vehicle-news/capturing-the-monstrous-jagdtiger.html?fbclid=IwAR1uMqPPxHorHcuWWMe-TuVYoRmHg-AnrgAYqjPwfTLIp8LE7R4LseuNbHY&edg-c=1&A1c=1)

The front armour was almost 10 inches thick and completely proof against all Allied tank and anti-tank guns. A well-camouflaged Jagdtiger in a static position could inflict major damage on Allied tanks.

The Jagdtiger which literally means ‘hunting tiger’ was the heaviest fighting vehicle to see action in the Second World War. The project was started in early 1943, when a proposal was made to fit the 12.8cm Pak 44 gun to a tank destroyer. The chassis was based on the Tiger II, which had been slightly lengthened. This followed the series of Jagdpanzer designs which used the latest tank hulls to mount anti-tank guns in a turretless and therefore was a cheaper design.

(https://i.imgur.com/sHkivsS.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2022, 06:52:57 PM
Today in History -- On today’s date 157 years ago during the War Between the States on Friday, June 23, 1865 at Fort Towson near the town of Doaksville in the Choctaw Nation (present-day Oklahoma), & four days after the “Juneteenth” reading of General Order № 3 to the people of Galveston, Texas, famous Cherokee Confederate Brigadier General Stand Watie (1806-1871) surrendered the last sizable Confederate army -- thus becoming the last Confederate general in the field to stand down.
☞General Stand Watie, C.S.A. was also known as Degataga (Cherokee for “Stands Firm”), Standhope Uwatie, & Isaac S. Watie.
☞Note: In the 1976 Clint Eastwood movie “The Outlaw Josey Wales,” the fictional character Lone Watie, portrayed by Chief Dan George (1899-1981), is identified as a nephew of General Stand Watie. Upon meeting Josey Wales, portrayed by Clint Eastwood (born 1930), Lone Watie delivers the following monologue:
I wore this frock coat to Washington before the War. We wore them because we belonged to the Five Civilized Tribes. We dressed ourselves up like Abraham Lincoln.
You know, we got to see the Secretary of the Interior, & he said, “Boy, you boys sure look civilized.”
He congratulated us & he gave us medals for looking so civilized. 
We told him about how our land had been stolen & how our people were dying. When we finished he shook our hands & said: “Endeavor to persevere!”
They stood us in a line: John Jumper, Chili McIntosh, Buffalo Hump, Jim Buckmark, & me -- I am Lone Watie. They took our pictures. And the newspapers said, “Indians vow to endeavour to persevere.”
We thought about it for a long time. “Endeavour to persevere.” And when we had thought about it long enough, we declared war on the Union.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2022, 07:46:30 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/vkhm1Fb.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 24, 2022, 12:50:49 PM
Ya they never bathed

On this date


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2022, 01:59:43 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ZceAdq5.png)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 24, 2022, 06:53:36 PM
Macaroni Penguins (Eudyptes chrysolophus) get their name from the long, orange, yellow, and black feathery crests above their eyes. They were named after “macaroni dandies,” whose hairstyle was fashionable in the 18th century.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 24, 2022, 06:54:36 PM
Ya they never bathed

On this date

  • 1974 (https://www.onthisday.com/events/date/1974) Kansas City pitcher Steve Busby retires first 9 White Sox to set AL record with 33 consecutive batsmen retired; Royals still lose, 3-1 to Chicago(what the hell do you have to do to win a game)


I remember Steve
ya do know with a little math.........  9 is only 3 innings
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 25, 2022, 11:52:07 AM
Purple Rain is the sixth studio album by American recording artist Prince, released on June 25, 1984, by Warner Bros. Records and the soundtrack to the 1984 film of the same name.

Anthony Bourdain born june 25,1956
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2022, 01:29:54 PM
The term "autocar" in French means basically a bus.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2022, 04:40:37 PM
People From Outside The United States Share Their Favorite American Foods (ranker.com) (https://www.ranker.com/list/non-americans-favorite-american-foods/will-morgan-1?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=historypost&pgid=642850749204637&utm_campaign=non-americans-favorite-american-foods&fbclid=IwAR27oecjncfi8gk7sWrMeuI15-IGbJre_HpbP9eiZjpRCShwEoAECfzu4BI)

Quote
Spaniard who lives in the States for six years: I liked apple pie, pastrami on rye sandwiches, Tex Mex, all the things you do with sweet potatoes, virtually any item at a Waffle House, bagels, Reuben sandwiches, chicken and waffles, cheesecake, s'mores, chocolate chip cookies, buffalo wings. I never got into peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. I tried, but it wasn't for me.
And Redditor u/Sharkdart (https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/vdphma/comment/icnv79q/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3):
Quote
I took my German uncle to Waffle House when he visited, I swear that man ordered every item on the menu. Out of all the restaurants we went to, WH is the only one he still talks about.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 26, 2022, 09:08:57 AM
Today in Aviation History: The first Production F4U-1 Corsair Made Its First Flight (warbirdsnews.com) (https://warbirdsnews.com/warbird-articles/today-in-aviation-history-the-first-production-f4u-1-corsair-made-its-first-flight.html)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on June 26, 2022, 09:17:45 AM
Today in Aviation History: The first Production F4U-1 Corsair Made Its First Flight (warbirdsnews.com) (https://warbirdsnews.com/warbird-articles/today-in-aviation-history-the-first-production-f4u-1-corsair-made-its-first-flight.html)


My dad served in the Pacific during WW2 and used to say there is nothing that even comes close to the sound of a Corsair starting up its engine 

Im sure he heard it many times
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 26, 2022, 09:19:33 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/TDprVtk.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 26, 2022, 11:36:11 AM
Unintended Consequences - Part 1: Treason By Other Means.
The Great World War often was a bitter tug of war match between officers with the vision to see the future and their superiors still mired in the past. One example of the former was British officer John Frederick Charles Fuller (photo, left).
In short, Fuller was brilliant, but he rubbed people the wrong way. Still, his keen grasp of tactics was recognized, and during the First World War he became heavily involved in planning tactics for one of the newest British weapons, the tank.
When the tank first appeared on European battlefields it terrified the Germans, but the few successes gained by using tanks generally were not followed up on, and the war ended before visionaries like Fuller truly could demonstrate the full capabilities of the weapon. Had the war gone into 1919, this might have changed.
Fuller was one of a few British officers who saw that the future of warfare was mechanization, but following the war the British Army was downsizing, scrounging for funding, and not particularly interested in the ideas of men such as Fuller and B. H. Liddell Hart regarding the future of tank warfare in Europe.
But while the British were not especially interested in what Fuller had to say, there was someone else who was absorbing everything he could on emerging tank doctrine.....
In Germany, a veteran officer named Heinz Guderian (photo, bottom-right) was devouring every book on mechanized warfare he could find, and a great many of them were coming out of England.
Guderian used what he learned to help shape Germany's tactical theories on tank warfare, and he was able to because, through the books he read, he could have Fuller's theories without having Fuller's problems with superior officers.
Having to start over from scratch following the Versailles treaty, the leadership of the German Army did not feel the need to be as rigid in their doctrine as did the British Army, and so embraced the fast-strike ideas about which Fuller wrote, working them into their own new doctrine of lightning mechanized warfare.
And the rise of fascism on the continent appealed to Fuller, who himself became an avowed fascist, and when Germany began rearming and mechanizing its military in the 1930s, Fuller was there cheering them on, even gaining favor with Hitler himself.
When the Second World War started, the German Army used the ideas they learned from men such as Fuller to great success in the early campaigns. Britain and France, having not been as flexible in the interwar years, were stunned.
Fuller remained a committed fascist, even after the end of the Second World War, even writing toward the end of his life that he believed Germany should have won the war.
While Fuller's delivery of his tactical theories to the enemy originally had been inadvertent, things may have gone very differently had the Great World War not ended in armistice in November of 1918, and his theories on tank warfare instead had been demonstrated clearly to his own side in the proposed campaigns of 1919.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 26, 2022, 03:42:45 PM
When the tank first appeared on European battlefields it terrified the Germans, but the few successes gained by using tanks generally were not followed up on, and the war ended before visionaries like Fuller truly could demonstrate the full capabilities of the weapon. Had the war gone into 1919, this might have changed.
It is interesting, two of the biggest innovations of WWI were poison gas first used by the Germans and the Tank, first used by the English.  Ultimately neither had the immediate impact that they could have because both were first employed in limited quantities.  

Poison Gas:
The Germans actually first used Gas warfare on the Eastern Front against the Russians and only later used it on the Western Front against the English and French.  As amazing as this will seem, apparently the Russians failed to notify their Western allies of the German use of poison gas so even though it had been used first in the East it was still "new" when used in the West.  Nonetheless, the Germans started out only using small quantities, not enough to lead to a the major breakthrough that both sides were seeking.  By the time mass gas attacks were tried, both sides were prepared with the appropriate protective gear.  Furthermore, on the Western Front the Germans were confronted with a problem in that the prevailing wind was toward them so the gas that they used tended to drift back onto their own lines.  

The Tank:
As referenced in the article you quoted, the tank absolutely terrified defenders as local infantry at the time didn't have anything that could take it out.  Worse, tanks were generally too fast (even then) and too small to call in artillery strikes against.  However, the early tanks were terribly unreliable so it didn't take all that long before enough of them were broken down that the rest could be dealt with.  

A mass gas or tank attack before the other side was prepared for it might well have seriously changed the course of the war.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 26, 2022, 03:46:51 PM
The thing that sort of almost altered the outcome were the tactics used by the Germans in 1918.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 26, 2022, 03:56:59 PM
Marco Polo may be a household name, but few know that his famous literary masterpiece, The Travels of Marco Polo , was not only written while he was in prison, but was penned by somebody else. Marco Polo’s tale of adventure in the Far East became a bestseller when it was published around 1300, inspiring generations of explorers, including Christopher Columbus  (https://www.ancient-origins.net/premium-preview/columbus-0016815)who kept an annotated copy amongst his personal belongings.

The bestselling biography / autobiography / travelogue recounted the experiences of Marco Polo  (https://www.ancient-origins.net/history-famous-people/life-and-adventures-marco-polo-002635)during a 24-year voyage alongside his father and uncle, Niccolò and Maffeo Polo. Originally from a family of well-travelled merchants, Marco Polo  (https://www.ancient-origins.net/history/marco-polo-fictional-character-challenging-historical-tale-merchant-traveler-006945)left Venice at just 17 years old and returned at 41, passing through countries including Turkey, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kashmir and China between 1271 and 1295. Marco Polo was even employed at the court of Mongolian emperor Kublai Khan  (https://www.ancient-origins.net/history-famous-people/kublai-khan-mongol-warrior-horseman-hunter-and-powerful-emperor-006033)for 17 years.
The story (https://www.ancient-origins.net/artifacts-ancient-writings/geoffrey-monmouth-0015218) of Marco Polo’s travels included a plethora of useful information for merchants at a time when few Christians had ever travelled into the Far East  (https://www.ancient-origins.net/history/did-jesus-nazareth-travel-far-east-009653), let alone to China. In fact, “the unprecedented in its time,” explained National Geographic  (https://www.nationalgeographic.co.uk/history-and-civilisation/2019/09/marco-polos-odyssey-spawned-one-of-the-worlds-first-best-sellers).

Nevertheless, the book was actually written by Rustichello of Pisa  (https://www.ancient-origins.net/myths-legends/how-much-what-we-believe-about-ancient-history-really-true-thinking-critically-about-021667), Polo’s cellmate when he was captured and imprisoned as a prisoner of war during a battle between Venice and Genoa in 1298. Some historians have claimed that the entire book is a fabrication, made up of secondhand accounts heard from others. Others believe that Marco Polo  (https://members.ancient-origins.net/articles/marco-polo-fictional-character-challenging-historical-tale-merchant-traveler)never existed at all and was a figment of Rustichello’s active imagination.


Nonetheless, the majority believe that the book (https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/medieval-wife-swap-0015339) is mostly true, with a few embellishments thrown in to improve sales, such as accounts of unicorns (possibly rhinos), pasta growing on trees and even dog-headed humans. This was before the invention of the printing press, and so the book was copied by hand, which didn’t help much in avoiding mistakes, well-meaning alteration and stark differences between copies and translations.

The Travels of Marco Polo  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm9mHAIKo3U), also known as Il milione (in allusion to Polo’s nickname Il milione suggesting a man who invented a million tall tales), is not the only literary masterpiece to have been written in jail (https://www.ancient-origins.net/history-ancient-traditions/prisons-and-imprisonment-ancient-world-punishments-used-maintain-public-020588). Sir Thomas Malory wrote Le Morte d’Arthur , a retelling of the story of King Arthur, while imprisoned at London’s Newgate Prison. Miguel de Cervantes claimed that the prologue to Don Quixote was “begotten in prison (https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/prison-mosaic-0016595).” Whether or not this is true is another matter.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 27, 2022, 03:31:42 PM
“Woods now U.S. Marine Corps entirely.” Major M. Shearer’s report to HQ, June 26, 1918, Belleau Wood, France. 
Today, June 26th, marks the 104th anniversary of the end of the Battle of Belleau Wood, one of the most ferocious battles in U.S. Marine Corps history.
The battle lasted from June 1st to June 26th, 1918, near the Marne River in France. It was part of the German Spring Offensive of 1918, which hoped to defeat the Allied forces on the Western Front before the full strength of the U.S. military reached France. In late May 1918, the third German offensive of the year penetrated the Western Front to within 60 miles of Paris.
On June 1, German troops attacked French forces and reached their objectives, moving into the area and occupying Belleau Wood. U.S. 2nd Division, which included 5th and 6th Marine Regiments, set up defensive positions south of the woods, ordering the Marines to “hold where they stand.” On June 2nd, Germans troops moved through the woods and attacked the Marines, who mowed down a wave after wave of Germans with deadly accurate rifle fire, halting their line. Other elements of Allied forces were not as successful, and many French commanders urged the Marines to retreat before the Germans re-organize. This led to one of the most famous Marine retorts, uttered by Captain Lloyd Williams of 2nd Battalion 5th Marines; “Retreat? Hell, we just got here.”
Over the next two days, Marines repelled continuous German attacks, which allowed the allied forces to prepare and launch a counterattack on June 6th. Marines from 1st Battalion 5th Marines were ordered to take the Hill 142, west of the woods. As they crossed the now-famous wheat fields with their bayonets fixed, they were met by German troops who set well-defended positions supported by deadly machine gun and artillery fire. On that morning, many Marines were cut down in those wheat fields; however, 1/5 was able to overcome the odds and capture Hill 142, uprooting the entrenched Germans.
With the left flank secured, 3rd Battalion 5th Marines and 3rd Battalion 6th Marines were ordered to advance into Belleau Woods from the west and clear it out. These Marines, again, had to push across the open wheat field, facing a well-entrenched enemy. During this attack, winner of 2 Medals of Honor, Gunnery Sergeant Dan Daly, motivated his men with the now most iconic Marine Battle quote, “Come on, you sons of bitches, do you want to live forever?”
Soon enough, Marines of 3/6 and 3/5 were engaged in some of the heaviest fighting in Marine Corps history. The German infantry had well-established trench lines that were covered by interlocking machine gun fields of fire, barbed wire, and individual fighting positions. As the Marines pushed through these defenses, the battle turned into the most brutal hand-to-hand fight for life and death. When the dust settled, the Marines gained a stronghold in the woods.
Over the next three weeks, Marines attacked the woods six times before they were able to expel the Germans fully. On June 26, 1918, 3rd Battalion 5th Marines, under the command of Major M. Shearer, made the final attack on Belleau Wood, clearing it of any remaining German forces. Major Shearer sent a report to HQ stating, “Woods now U.S. Marine Corps entirely.” One of the most ferocious battles in U.S. Marine Corps history was over.
U.S. forces suffered 1811 Killed-In-Action and 7966 wounded in the Battle of Belleau Wood. After the battle, the French renamed the wood "Bois de la Brigade de Marine" ("Wood of the Marine Brigade") in honor of the Marines' tenacity. The French government awarded the Marines with the “Croix de Guerre” and Marines of 5th and 6th Marine Regiments are still allowed to wear the “French Fourragere” on their uniforms as a symbol of their regiments’ valor during the battle.
This battle also cemented the U.S. Marine Corps’ place in modern warfare as a highly effective fighting force. Official German reports classified the Marines as “vigorous, self-confident, and remarkable marksman…” They compelled General Pershing, commander of the American Expeditionary Force, to proclaim that “the deadliest weapon in the world is a United States Marine and his rifle.” The legend has it that after the battle, the Germans began to call the Marines “Teufelshunde” or “Devil Dogs.” Over the past 100 years, the Marines have lived up to the high standard set by the Belleau Woods Marines on the battlefields all over the world, and they keep proving that U.S. Marine Corps is the deadliest fighting force in modern history.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 29, 2022, 03:25:23 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/aRnV81q.png)

Ute Pass, CO, circa 1860 gold rush era.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 29, 2022, 07:23:19 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/6etPTIN.png)

P-47D being restored.  The engine is the R2800 Double Wasp with 2800 cid.


[th]Major applications[/th]
Convair CV-240 family (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convair_CV-240_family)
Douglas A-26 Invader (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_A-26_Invader)
Douglas DC-6 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_DC-6)
Grumman F6F Hellcat (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_F6F_Hellcat)
Martin B-26 Marauder (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_B-26_Marauder)
Republic P-47 Thunderbolt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_P-47_Thunderbolt)
Vought F4U Corsair (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vought_F4U_Corsair)
[th]Produced[/th]
1939-1960

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 29, 2022, 09:18:34 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/aRnV81q.png)

Ute Pass, CO, circa 1860 gold rush era.


The more I've explored out west here, my opinion of those early pioneers has progressed from impressed to thinking they were nucking futs.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2022, 08:30:02 AM
I think the motivations of early explorers in the West has to be judged relative to where they started and conditions extant there.  Life back then was hard for most.

I've seen the path up the mountain to the Yukon gold fields, it's nuts too.

(https://i.imgur.com/sYMJW2W.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2022, 08:45:41 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/nqrOvHB.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2022, 01:03:09 PM
Pirates Nationals appeal play fourth out rule (mlb.com) (https://www.mlb.com/news/pirates-nationals-appeal-play-fourth-out-rule?fbclid=IwAR2nOts852et5Lft1Pxfg9RM7tD8GcPgsGT0rkBhLOg47KgOlsXBFuqCWH4)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 01, 2022, 08:08:27 AM
The man who stole the Mona Lisa from the Louvre in 1911 had helped build the glass case that held the painting. He hid in the broom closet overnight and then walked out in the morning. He was Italian and believed the painting belonged to Italy.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 01, 2022, 09:40:50 AM
502 years ago today in 1520, Hernán Cortés and around 1000 Spanish soldiers are driven out of the Aztec capital of Tenochtitlan, barely escaping and losing 2/3rds of their men in an event known as La Noche Triste (The Sad Night).
Cortés landed in Mexico in 1519 without permission from his superiors in search of gold and glory. Fortunately for him, the Aztec’s brutal rule over the land allowed him to receive crucial support from 10,000’s of native peoples. The Aztec ruler Montezuma II first tried to buy off the Spanish with gold. He then brought Cortés and his soldiers to the capital where the Spaniards lived as his guests for several months until they made the Aztec leader a prisoner in his own palace. Montezuma continued to govern his empire with Spanish influence greatly upsetting his people.
In early June, Cortés left the city to deal with a Spanish force that came to arrest him. He was able to surprise and kill its leader. Cortés then told the defeated soldiers about the riches of Tenochtitlan and they agreed to join him reinforcing his total strength. Along with this reinforcement of fresh European troops, a larger number of Native allies would join Cortés on his return to Tenochtitlan.  While he was gone, the Spanish garrison with Montezuma obtained information that the Aztecs were about to attack them and carried out preemptive slaughter of Aztec nobles and priests celebrating a festival in the city's main temple. The Aztecs laid siege to the palace and when Cortés returned, he forced Montezuma to address his people and tell them to let the Spanish leave in peace. But the Aztecs threw rocks at him and elected a new leader, and continuous fighting would occur exhausting the Spanish supplies.
After promising a ceasefire and to return the treasure, on the night of July 1st the Spanish carrying as much loot as they could quietly began to leave the city on an unguarded bridge/causeway. But they were noticed and the alarm sounded, 50,000 Aztecs swarmed on the Spanish and their native allies. During the Spaniards’ retreat, they lost 2/3rds of their European soldiers, including their skilled ship builder. But two weeks later the Spaniards managed to defeat a larger Aztec army at the battle of Otumba and were able to link up with native Tlaxcaltec allies. Almost a year later in May 1521, Cortés returned to Tenochtitlan and placed it under siege for 3 months until it was captured.  After the fall of their capital Tenochtitlan and execution of their emperor, the Aztec empire faded, and Cortés became the ruler of the vast Mexican empire soon called New Spain.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 01, 2022, 09:54:32 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Battle of Gettysburg Begins (1863)
The Battle of Gettysburg was the bloodiest battle of the American Civil War, resulting in some 50,000 casualties in three days. It took place in and around the town of Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, and signaled a turning of the tide in favor of the Union. The site is now a national cemetery, at whose dedication on November 19, 1863, President Abraham Lincoln delivered the Gettysburg Address. Seamstress Ginnie Wade was the only documented civilian casualty of the battle.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 01, 2022, 10:10:35 AM
It reminds me in some ways of the battle of Kursk in 1943.  Neither the Germans nor the Confederates were able to mount much of an offensive after that, Battle of the Bulge arguably excepted.  And Vicksburg also fell which cut the latter in half.  That was also a major event, and put Grant in charge eventually.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 01, 2022, 11:51:10 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/PAEK3nw.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 01, 2022, 12:02:47 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Battle of Gettysburg Begins (1863)
The Battle of Gettysburg was the bloodiest battle of the American Civil War, resulting in some 50,000 casualties in three days. It took place in and around the town of Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, and signaled a turning of the tide in favor of the Union. The site is now a national cemetery, at whose dedication on November 19, 1863, President Abraham Lincoln delivered the Gettysburg Address. Seamstress Ginnie Wade was the only documented civilian casualty of the battle.
The site is worth a visit and if you want to combine it with a football trip, it isn't far from the University of Maryland. Civil War battlefields, however, are best viewed at the same time of year as the battle, you get a better feel for it that way.

I think that Gettysburg may be somewhat overhyped as a "turning point" in that I don't think it turned the tide so much as it reflected that the tide had been turned by Northern advantages in population and industrial capacity. 

That said, Gettysburg was the last real chance that the Confederacy had to achieve independence on the battlefield. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 01, 2022, 12:17:44 PM
That A-Hole Dan Sickles  almost singlehandedly got himself killed and and II Corp wiped out and and almost lost the battle on the 2nd day as he moved his men out of the Peach Orchard exposing union flanks.The real crime is he went back to Washington,sans his leg and told Lincoln and anyone else that would listen how Meade faffed things up and he saved the day.When in fact the exact opposite was true.George Gordon Meade never got the credit that he deserved. Six months earlier at Fredricksburg on the Union's far left he for a time took some small units and actually was rolling up Stonewall Jackson Brigade but Burnside was getting his troops destroyed repeatedly on the other side going up marye's Heights.Had Burnside supported Meade who was a topographical engineer who knows how things would have went.Had either Burnside or Sickles both been killed in '62 the war could have ended sooner - they were both that bad
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 01, 2022, 12:25:07 PM
That said, Gettysburg was the last real chance that the Confederacy had to achieve independence on the battlefield.
I think this is true.  In my alternate history, I had Jackson present on Day One and he managed to take the heights above the town, but Meade just put everyone at Pipe Creek, which was a very defensible position.  Jackson's corps was too beat up to follow quickly.

The North had a lot of poor generals, the south had some but not as bad and not in as critical positions usually.

Lincoln aged greatly.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 01, 2022, 01:48:52 PM
I think this is true.  In my alternate history, I had Jackson present on Day One and he managed to take the heights above the town, but Meade just put everyone at Pipe Creek, which was a very defensible position.  Jackson's corps was too beat up to follow quickly.

The North had a lot of poor generals, the south had some but not as bad and not in as critical positions usually.

Lincoln aged greatly.
Lee's decision to launch Pickett's Charge has been roundly criticized ever since the battle starting with his subordinate Generals pretty much unanimously opposing the idea. From a tactical perspective these criticisms are and Lee's subordinates were right, it was a terrible mistake for which the Confederacy paid a horrific price.

That said, I think that Lee was right to send the Charge on a strategic level. At that point in the war the Union was gaining strength while the Confederacy was loosing strength. Thus, there was simply never going to be a better opportunity for the Confederates. The odds of Pickett's Charge succeeding were long but the odds of success in later campaigns would necessarily be longer. Ie, their chances weren't good but they were getting worse every month.

Pickett himself was strongly opposed to the Charge which is ironic since it has been known ever since by his name.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 01, 2022, 01:51:28 PM
Longstreet apparently advocated for a flanking move.  I think Lee, missing Jackson, was unsure of that approach now.  He liked to use Longstreet as the anvil but he had no Jackson.  I think it was lost on the first day, not the third.  The third just made it official.

Then Meade as usual was very slow to follow up when Lee finally pulled out (it was raining).

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 01, 2022, 02:47:16 PM
Then Meade as usual was very slow to follow up when Lee finally pulled out (it was raining).
For years I wanted to know more about this.

Background for those unfamiliar (of which I understand that you, @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) are not one):

At Gettysburg the Union line was actually South of the Confederate line because the Union Army had come up (North) from DC to contest Lee's invasion.

Thus, once the battle ended it would have been theoretically possible for Meade and the Union Army to trap the Confederate Army of Northern Virginia in Pennsylvania and disconnected from their supply lines. Had this been successfully accomplished the Army of Northern Virginia could have been destroyed (nearly everyone either killed or captured) and the war may well have ended in 1862.

Meade has been criticized ever since for failing to grasp this strategic opportunity. The criticism started immediately with President Lincoln supposedly saying that "He (Meade) had the Confederate Army in the palm of his hand and failed to grasp it." Later, political opponents of Meade in Congress latched on and historians even today frequently advance some form of the same basic arguments.

I always wanted to know more because it is frequently presented as such an obvious opportunity that one has to wonder how Meade could possibly have failed to see it.

Several years ago I read Retreat from Gettysburg: Lee, Logistics, and the Pennsylvania Campaign by Kent Masterson Brown. Link:  https://www.amazon.com/Retreat-Gettysburg-Logistics-Pennsylvania-Campaign/dp/0807872091

I warn all that this is a tedious read.

The gist of what I learned was this:

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 01, 2022, 03:33:37 PM
The Potomac was also at flood stage, and it was raining.

Lee Escapes from Gettysburg | HistoryNet (https://www.historynet.com/lee-escapes-from-gettysburg/)

This is a pretty good summary I think.  I'm reminded a bit of the first battle of Bull Run when the Union army was fleeing, and the rebels were so disorganized they couldn't follow.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 01, 2022, 04:01:18 PM
The Potomac was also at flood stage, and it was raining.

Lee Escapes from Gettysburg | HistoryNet (https://www.historynet.com/lee-escapes-from-gettysburg/)

This is a pretty good summary I think.  I'm reminded a bit of the first battle of Bull Run when the Union army was fleeing, and the rebels were so disorganized they couldn't follow.
That was a pretty good and fair assessment. It mentions many of Meade's issues. The book I linked above is, more-or-less, a book-length version of that article. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 02, 2022, 08:59:19 AM
Masada is a mountaintop fortress in Israel. According to the ancient historian Josephus, it was fortified by Herod the Great in the 1st century BCE. In 66 CE, at the beginning of the Jewish uprising against the Romans, a group of rebels captured Masada. They retained control of the fortress until 73 CE, when, besieged by the Romans, they committed mass suicide rather than surrender. Excavated in the 1950s and 60s, Masada is now a major tourist attraction.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 02, 2022, 09:00:38 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Revolt Aboard the Amistad (1839)
In 1839, 53 African slaves being transported on the Spanish merchant ship La Amistad revolted against their captors. Having gained control of the ship, they demanded that the navigator set a course for Africa. However, he deceived them and sailed the ship northward until it was intercepted by the US Navy off the coast of New York. After a widely publicized court battle, the Supreme Court ruled that the Africans were not legally slaves and ordered them freed.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 02, 2022, 09:04:26 AM
Today in History

Today is Saturday, July 2, the 183rd day of 2022. There are 182 days left in the year.

Today’s Highlight in History:

On July 2, 1937, aviator Amelia Earhart and navigator Fred Noonan disappeared over the Pacific Ocean while attempting to make the first round-the-world flight along the equator.

On this date:

In 1566, French astrologer, physician and professed prophesier Nostradamus died in Salon (sah-LOHN’).

In 1776, the Continental Congress passed a resolution saying that “these United Colonies are, and of right ought to be, free and independent States.”

In 1881, President James A. Garfield was shot by Charles J. Guiteau (gee-TOH’) at the Washington railroad station; Garfield died the following September. (Guiteau was hanged in June 1882.)

In 1917, rioting erupted in East St. Louis, Illinois, as white mobs attacked Black residents; nearly 50 people, mostly Blacks, are believed to have died in the violence.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 02, 2022, 10:35:29 PM
perhaps Cincy can cornfirm or deny...............

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/289812545_10225502451645780_6474300044296104064_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=FOQ1b1QU7DsAX9wgP9i&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT-REDKRw5gOW_OMipccM99nixo9An_rbaTeWQIrqLbRzQ&oe=62C67737)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 03, 2022, 07:57:26 AM
Martin Van Buren was the first U.S. president to be born a United States citizen. All previous presidents were born British subjects.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 03, 2022, 08:18:19 AM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/291561000_596328461859458_3633204439752192903_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p180x540&_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=XKZ9602fPtoAX91rq9i&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9DUZ944iCrG8bp3g6wRf7nC-OkBoB-GvT9x1_8FX3FKw&oe=62C75433)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 03, 2022, 08:25:59 AM
I don't think citrate is a secret ingredient at all of course.  The term apparently is "emlusifying salt", which is new to me.  Interesting, sodium replaces calcium which otherwise crosslinks the proteins in cheese.  I did not know this.  Ha.



Emulsifying salts – EU Specialty Food Ingredients (https://www.specialtyfoodingredients.eu/ingredients_cat/emulsifying-salts/#:~:text=Emulsifying salts are used in,on the casein milk proteins.)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 03, 2022, 09:42:16 AM
On this date in 1863 a small detachment of the 8th ohio who were in a forward position of the union lines on Cemetary Ridge.The left flank of Davis’ Brigade of Pettigrew/Trimble’s Division, Army of the Northern Virginia.
Following a lengthy cannonade in the early afternoon, over 12,000 Confederates under George Pickett, Isaac R. Trimble, and Johnston Pettigrew stepped off from Seminary Ridge and marched towards the Union line on Cemetery Ridge. Facing a force several times its number, the 8th Ohio held its advanced position and was able to flank portions of a Virginia brigade under Col. John M. Brockenbrough. Assisted by artillery fire from Cemetery Hill and Ziegler's Grove, the 8th succeeded in routing much of Brockenbrough's force, the first brigade to ever break and flee during Lee's tenure in command of the Army of Northern Virginia. The 8th then shifted and poured fire into the flank of other Confederate regiments. As the assault waned, the regiment collected over 300 prisoners of war.[3] As the Ohioans reentered the Union lines, they were given a salute of arms and cheers from the other regiments.
[color=var(--yt-endpoint-color,var(--yt-spec-call-to-action))]https://www.oldgloryprints.com/8th%20Ohio%20at%20Gettysburg.htm[/color]
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 03, 2022, 10:25:29 AM
After the outbreak of WW2, Admiral Scheer underwent a refit and was despatched to the Atlantic to commence commerce raiding operations against merchant shipping. In the course of her raiding operation, she had steamed over 46,000 nautical miles and sunk seventeen merchant ships for a total of 113,223 GRT. The Admiral Scheer was involved in several further operations during the war in Norway and the Baltic, but by 1945 the ships guns were badly worn and in need of repair. The Admiral Scheer arrived in the German port city of Kiel that same year to have the stern turret guns replaced, but during the refit the port was bombed by 300 RAF bombers, resulting in several bombs striking the Admiral Scheer causing her to capsize.

After the war, the Admiral Scheer was partially broken up, but the sheer size of the ship’s hull was too immense for the post-war government to financially warrant the endeavour of completely salvaging the wrecked husk. The ports inner harbours was filled in with material from the bombed-out ruins of Kiel, burying the Admiral Scheer beneath rubble and debris, where she still lays at rest today beneath the Ellerbrek district of Kiel.

(https://i.imgur.com/KWJ0WeZ.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 04, 2022, 06:51:20 PM
The Mohs Scale of Mineral Hardness

The Mohs scale of mineral hardness characterizes the scratch resistance of various minerals, through the ability of a harder material to scratch a softer one and not be scratched by it. While the varying hardness of stones was likely first explored around 300 BCE, German mineralogist Friedrich Mohs devised his scale in 1812. It uses 10 standards ranging from talc, the softest, with a value of 1, to diamond, the hardest, with a value of 10.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 04, 2022, 08:03:45 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
West Point Opens (1802)
Before it was home to young men and women training to be US Army officers, West Point, New York, was the site of a military post. Congress signed legislation establishing the United States Military Academy there in 1802, though it was initially an apprentice school for military engineers. Its curriculum broadened in 1866, and, after World War I, Superintendent Douglas MacArthur pushed for major changes in the physical fitness and athletic programs.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 04, 2022, 09:36:24 PM
[img width=728.287 height=539.977 alt=May be an image of text that says 'B1G BIG TEN MEMBERSHIP TIMELINE Last 30 Years Ucla UCLA & USC: 2024 M O R Maryland & Rutgers: 2014 N Nebraska: 2011 Penn State 1993 KEVIN WARREN BIG TEN STATEMENT leadership of Chancellor Gene Block. LIVE B1G NETWORK']https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/291561000_596328461859458_3633204439752192903_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p180x540&_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=XKZ9602fPtoAX91rq9i&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9DUZ944iCrG8bp3g6wRf7nC-OkBoB-GvT9x1_8FX3FKw&oe=62C75433[/img]
Shows this to a Big Ten team fan in 1987:
[img width=499.988 height=332.998]https://i.imgur.com/MSkgSm2.jpg[/img]
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 05, 2022, 08:13:31 AM
A diamond is hardest  because it's pure carbon where each carbon is attached to the next in the ideal geometry.  Boron nitride in cubic form is second hardest.

Graphite is also pure carbon in a different structure.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 05, 2022, 10:10:02 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/TXaWK1D.png)

Happy (almost) bridge opening day! On July 1, 1940 the original Tacoma Narrows Bridge opened with much fanfare. The bridge was a big deal to residents of the area, who formerly had to make the crossing via a ferry or driving around.

Learn more about the history of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge in 700 FEET DOWN, now available for free on Tubi and Vudu!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 06, 2022, 09:14:52 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Hartford Circus Fire (1944)
The Hartford Circus Fire was one of the worst fire disasters in US history. While thousands of spectators in Hartford, Connecticut, were enjoying an afternoon performance of the Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus, a fire broke out in the tent. The big top, waterproofed with a coating of paraffin and gasoline, quickly collapsed in flames, trapping hundreds beneath it. About 169 people died.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on July 06, 2022, 09:27:36 AM
Well that's horrible.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 06, 2022, 09:55:25 AM
did all the elephants get out alive???
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on July 06, 2022, 10:15:16 AM
This one probably did:

(https://i.imgur.com/GzJFW1S.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2022, 10:41:12 AM
I made a D in freshman chemistry.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 06, 2022, 10:43:31 AM
weird
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on July 06, 2022, 10:54:09 AM
I made an A in freshman chemistry at UT.  My high school chemistry teacher was a bad-arse, and college chemistry was much easier. 

  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2022, 10:57:08 AM
I had two years oif chem in HS and placed out of the first quarter at UGA, which probably was a mistake.  It was not like HS.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on July 06, 2022, 11:09:40 AM
I had two years oif chem in HS and placed out of the first quarter at UGA, which probably was a mistake.  It was not like HS.
Yeah I specifically chose not to place out of chemistry, because I wasn't certain how much more/less advanced the college course was, and I didn't want to miss something that I might need later.  Turned out okay for me because it was an easy A, and those became VERY hard to come by as I advanced through the electrical engineering curriculum toward my degree.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 06, 2022, 02:27:29 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY
1775
July 06
Congress issues a “Declaration on the Causes and Necessity of Taking Up Arms”

On July 6, 1775, one day after restating their fidelity to King George III (https://www.history.com/topics/british-history/george-iii) and wishing him “a long and prosperous reign” in the Olive Branch Petition (https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/congress-adopts-olive-branch-petition), Congress sets “forth the causes and necessity of their taking up arms” against British authority in the American colonies (https://www.history.com/topics/colonial-america/thirteen-colonies). The declaration also proclaimed their preference “to die free men rather than live as slaves.”



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 06, 2022, 10:04:10 PM
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/the-story-of-robert-lee-scott-the-p-40-pilot-who-waged-a-one-man-war-against-imperial-japan-and-became-avg-commander-when-the-unit-became-the-23rd-fighter-group/ (https://theaviationgeekclub.com/the-story-of-robert-lee-scott-the-p-40-pilot-who-waged-a-one-man-war-against-imperial-japan-and-became-avg-commander-when-the-unit-became-the-23rd-fighter-group/)


Flying Tigers: From AVG to 23rd Fighter Group.
On Jul. 4, 1942, the American Volunteer Group (AVG) (https://theaviationgeekclub.com/the-death-of-a-flying-tiger-ace-the-final-flight-of-bill-reed-chinas-shining-mark/), which had achieved worldwide fame as the “Flying Tigers” (https://theaviationgeekclub.com/how-a-luftwaffe-sharkmouthed-me-110-inspired-flying-tigers-legendary-tiger-mouth-insignia/) officially ceased to be. Instead, the newest Fighter Group in the US Army Air Force (USAAF) (https://theaviationgeekclub.com/did-you-know-that-in-the-1960s-china-used-the-soviet-copy-of-the-b-29-to-intercept-cia-b-17-and-p-2-spy-flights-from-taiwan/) was established, with a small cadre of AVG pilots providing a core for the unit while it stood up as a combat unit. The vast majority of AVG pilots had already left, including Greg Hallenbeck/Boyington. Others had stuck things out till their year long contracts had expired. A few agreed to remain to help the new unit gain the benefit of their hard-won experience. They had retreated from Burma, seeing that corner of the British Empire fall, yet remaining intact as a unit despite the inevitable losses they had taken.
The behind-the-scenes machinations of various commands to take over the AVG is beyond the scope of this account, suffice to say it was a strategic matter discussed at the highest levels of US Military command. In many ways the AVG was embarrassment to the Military. Ostensibly Civilian, yet with higher pay than the military, the AVG had managed to achieve some of the only combat Victories scored by US Flying forces. Now that the war was over 6 months old, they remained an anomaly, a unit of Civilians in a War fought by a nation mobilizing its resources and people to fight around the world. The sooner they were inducted as a regular unit, the better.
Unfortunately, this pragmatic command view from Washington failed to take into account realities on the ground, where Major General Clayton Bissell and Brigadier General Claire Chennault clashed over control over a unit which at peak strength prewar never numbered more than a single Pursuit Group. Regarded prewar as a Maverick who refused to toe the Air Force’s Party Line that Bombing was the wave of the future, the hierarchy of the Air Force was now able to impose its will and induct the AVG into its organization. Unfortunately, General Bissell managed to alienate the pilots in his new command to such an extent by threatening to draft them upon their return home, that the vast majority left in disgust.
[img width=730 height=589.475 alt=The story of Robert Lee Scott, the P-40 pilot who waged a one-man war against Imperial Japan and became AVG commander when the unit became the 23rd Fighter Group]https://theaviationgeekclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/P-40s.jpg[/img]Famous En Echelon photo taken by AVG Pilot RT Smith, showing the 3rd Pursuit Squadron of the AVG, nicknamed the “Hells Angels” after the famous Howard Hughes film, something which inspired many of these future fighter pilots when they were kids fascinated by flight.[/size][/color]

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 06, 2022, 10:14:25 PM
I enjoyed Chem Lab in college.  Chem, not so much.  But the lab was at like 8pm.  Made for long days.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 07, 2022, 11:01:33 AM
Alan Reed, Fred
Jean Vander Pyl, Wilma
Bea Benaderet, Betty
Mel Blanc, Barney, Dino and many others..


(https://scontent-msp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/291875085_5192321917530306_5734730290665441592_n.jpg?stp=cp1_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=1_FhM9HerhwAX8PSXUi&tn=h3RKF0195C_Cy8Vu&_nc_ht=scontent-msp1-1.xx&oh=00_AT81Srnr8mrTTPvQvCBUGHG639188ILy91RstZxmVkuGgQ&oe=62CB06B4)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2022, 03:55:23 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Jcgujr6.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 07, 2022, 06:47:52 PM
Not sure if the Niekro's thru over 65mph
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2022, 07:18:56 AM
Joe threw around 70 mph, abouut a HS fastball on average.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2022, 09:22:34 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/OxGWUiD.png)

This likely is true, controlled airspace includes anything between 18,000 feet and 60,000 feet, above that you don't need a clearance.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 09, 2022, 08:43:30 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/qp5cn1L.jpg)
(Florida was 7-4, not 9-4)

(https://i.imgur.com/Kc4so4x.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: ELA on July 09, 2022, 10:01:14 PM
The helmet projects workload has become infinitely harder in the past decade. I've often thought about doing best helmet as an OT topic, but I worry it just devolves into a Homer debate.  I wonder if a better poll would be best 20th century alternate/classic helmet?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 10, 2022, 08:49:46 AM
Over the last 50 years, the University of Nebraska Football team has, for the most part, had the same uniforms with only slight variations. It wasn’t until the 2009 season that Nebraska would even wear what we would call alternate uniforms, and over that period, they would stumble onto some unique designs.

Remember that time Nebraska wore a two-toned color helmet?

Or the first time they wore black jerseys in a game?

How about a throwback to a team from the past?

There have been some good, bad, and ugly alternate jerseys for Nebraska football, but it’s never a bad idea to refresh yourself on what those jerseys looked like.


https://cornhuskerswire.usatoday.com/lists/looking-back-at-50-years-of-cornhusker-uniforms/?utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1MwROwqNFjX0CvXHX_JPKdGZ4O120iS7SitWbBVrMwpr8WpB7ZQGr6gTU (https://cornhuskerswire.usatoday.com/lists/looking-back-at-50-years-of-cornhusker-uniforms/?utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1MwROwqNFjX0CvXHX_JPKdGZ4O120iS7SitWbBVrMwpr8WpB7ZQGr6gTU)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: ELA on July 10, 2022, 09:55:54 AM
The ones with stripes down the side were horrible.  I want to say the same year Notre Dame did as well.  MSU and Miami had some weird piping too.  The early 2000s were full of weird piping on uniforms
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 10, 2022, 10:13:26 AM
I blame Oregon and Nike
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 11, 2022, 10:02:38 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
S.A. Andrée Attempts to Reach the North Pole by Balloon (1897)
After gaining funding from the likes of King Oscar II and Alfred Nobel and generating widespread public interest, Swedish explorer Salomon August Andrée and two companions departed from Norway's Svalbard for the North Pole in a hydrogen balloon. They flew for two days before a hydrogen leak grounded the balloon, forcing the poorly equipped trio to travel on pack ice. Three months later, the men reached the island of Kvitøya, where they eventually died.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2022, 06:44:31 AM
The helmet projects workload has become infinitely harder in the past decade. I've often thought about doing best helmet as an OT topic, but I worry it just devolves into a Homer debate.  I wonder if a better poll would be best 20th century alternate/classic helmet?

You could ask who has the best helmet outside teams you support.  But it's still qualitative and opinion.

The most distinctive helments would include, IMHO, ND and Michigan.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2022, 09:08:18 AM
I like the tradition of the painting of the helmets at ND
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2022, 09:08:37 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Medal of Honor Authorized by US Congress (1862)
The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration awarded by the US. It is presented by the president for "gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of…life above and beyond the call of duty" while engaged in an action against an enemy. Members of all branches of the US military are eligible to receive the medal, but each branch has its own special design. The Philadelphia Mint designed the medal, which was first awarded during the Civil War.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 13, 2022, 09:50:27 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Blackout Engulfs New York City (1977)
The New York City blackout of 1977 came at a low point in New York history, when the city was facing a financial crisis and being terrorized by the "Son of Sam" murderer. The blackout lasted only one night, but when it was over, a record 3,776 people had been arrested, and looting, vandalism, and arson had caused an estimated $300 million worth of damage. The chain of events that sparked the blackout began when the power failed in Westchester County.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 14, 2022, 09:24:36 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Football War Breaks Out in Honduras (1969)
The Football War was a four-day war fought between El Salvador and Honduras. Though political tensions between Hondurans and Salvadorans were the main factors contributing to the war's outbreak, hostility between the two countries was further inflamed by rioting when they met during a qualifying round for the 1970 FIFA World Cup. Though short-lived, the war claimed thousands of lives and displaced several hundred thousand people.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: ELA on July 14, 2022, 01:52:46 PM
I wonder when FIFA started their policy of not allowing countries with existing tensions to play then?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2022, 06:11:53 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/1crRIB2.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 14, 2022, 10:56:53 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP6TDm3C9fQ
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 15, 2022, 08:50:48 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Teutonic Knights Defeated at Battle of Grunwald (1410)
Early in the 15th century, the Teutonic Order, a German military religious order founded during the Third Crusade, sought to expand its influence over Lithuania and Poland. Though its purported mission was to spread Christianity, it invaded the already Christian nations and was defeated at the Battle of Grunwald. Afterward, the Order's strength waned, and today it exists only as a clerical organization.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 15, 2022, 09:31:33 AM

on July 11th in 1953, Major John Bolt became the first USMC jet ace of the Korean War while flying an F-86 Sabre.  He was an exchange pilot with the USAF during his air victories. He served under the leadership of triple ace Captain Joseph McConnell.
His total of 6 confirmed victories were against Mig-15's.  He was also an ace in WWII flying with VMF-214 Blacksheep in F4U Corsairs and was credited with 6 victories over Japanese Zeros. 
When he passed away in 2004, he was the last of the seven pilots who were dual aces in WWII and Korea.



(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/293335773_2072493082937013_8873908196950855775_n.png?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=SwD-VZpLxfoAX-5cK6o&tn=_MnT8OkIfzNoswba&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT8loHz7KrxqkivyxkV6bTYV-HeNbStzrkN1RxOsr-qMiw&oe=62D57EAB)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 16, 2022, 10:59:15 AM
77 years ago this morning the very first atomic device explosion was conducted as a test in the New Mexico desert.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 16, 2022, 11:01:38 AM
Yup, they tested the Nagasaki design as they weren't sure it would work.  The Hiroshima type was never tested before use, it was a simpler device.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 16, 2022, 11:21:10 AM
Yup, they tested the Nagasaki design as they weren't sure it would work.  The Hiroshima type was never tested before use, it was a simpler device.
Yes, Nagasaki bomb was much more powerful but did less damage because it exploded well off target with the blast contained by the terrain. Hiroshima bomb was much simpler and less powerful but almost exactly on target. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 16, 2022, 11:31:32 AM
It's pretty amazing they developed two very different atomic bombs at the same time, in effect, using two parallel approaches.  One required generation of a new element, plutonium.  There was some serious brain power afoot there.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 16, 2022, 03:11:39 PM
On July 22, 1864, a massive battle raged in the modern-day neighborhoods of Inman Park, Reynoldstown, Edgewood, Candler Park, Kirkwood, East Atlanta and Grant Park. The battle's front line ran along (what is now) Moreland Avenue and stretched from East Atlanta Village to the Inman Park MARTA station.

During the fateful encounter, 75,000 troops (dressed in wool uniforms @ 94-degree heat) engaged in fierce hand-to-hand combat. By the time the sun set that day, eyewitnesses reported seeing a "river of blood" flowing down Bald Hill, which stood where the eastbound exit ramp for Moreland Ave comes off of I-20 today. The nine-hour battle, which resulted in 9,200 casualties, would claim the lives of two major generals: James Birdseye McPherson (USA, 35 years old) and William Henry Talbot Walker (CSA, 47 years old).
Commanding (USA) General William Tucumseh Sherman watched the battle unfold from his vantage point where the Carter Center stands today. Commanding (CSA) General John Bell Hood did the same from his vantage point, which was located on the highest point of what is now Historic Oakland Cemetery. These are the starting and ending points of this 3-hour walking tour.
Some of the most intense fighting took place late that afternoon in an area known as the "Railroad Cut." That was located where the Inman Park MARTA station stands today. That specific scene was immortalized in the historic painting known as the Atlanta Cyclorama, which now lives at the Atlanta History Center in Buckhead.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 16, 2022, 03:12:46 PM
Cyclorama: The Big Picture | Exhibitions | Atlanta History Center (https://www.atlantahistorycenter.com/exhibitions/cyclorama/)

On February 22, 2019, Atlanta History Center opened Cyclorama: The Big Picture, featuring the fully restored cyclorama painting, The Battle of Atlanta.

At the centerpiece of this new multi-media experience is a 132-year-old hand-painted work of art that stands 49 feet tall, is longer than a football field, and weighs 10,000 pounds. This painting is one of only two cycloramas in the United States—the other being the Battle of Gettysburg cyclorama —making Atlanta home to one of America’s largest historic treasures.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 16, 2022, 04:37:05 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/nk3XBPc.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 16, 2022, 04:52:18 PM
77 years ago this morning the very first atomic device explosion was conducted as a test in the New Mexico desert.
Sure that wasn't Keggs and Eggs in C-Bus?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 16, 2022, 04:53:25 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/nk3XBPc.png)
I'd advise you not to take it up
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 16, 2022, 07:07:07 PM
It's pretty amazing they developed two very different atomic bombs at the same time, in effect, using two parallel approaches.  One required generation of a new element, plutonium.  There was some serious brain power afoot there.
It is a reflection of the United State's dominant economic position. 

The US was approximately 50% of the world's industrial capacity. The US was able to build the world's largest navy. By the end of the war the US Navy was literally more powerful than all other navies in the world combined. 

Seriously, think about that. In 1945 if every warship in the world had met somewhere for a gigantic everyone vs US battle, the US would have won. Beyond that, the US would have won by default because only the US had the logistical capacity to fuel and supply a fleet literally anywhere in the world. 

The US also produced astounding quantities of tanks, trucks, supply ships, aircraft, etc.

What makes this even more amazing is that while doing all of the above the US had enough surplus capacity to successfully complete the Manhattan Project at the same time.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 17, 2022, 02:25:49 AM
My dad is currently working at Los Alamos.
The last 2 jaunts went on were the nuclear sciences museums in Blue Ridge, TN and there at Los Alamos.  Visit, if you're in the Santa Fe area.  Very thorough, and tons of WWII stuff to look at.  Lifesize replicas of both bombs dropped on Japan.  
.
Part of what helped the US back then was 1 - plenty of hidden, tucked-away space to do this stuff and 2 - we were building entire cities at these sites in no time.  Sort of like how China can now.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2022, 05:25:55 AM
It is astounding how quickly companies like GM stopped build cars and started build war materiel.  It's also astounding to me that Nazi war production reached its peak in December 1944.  The US invaded North Africa in 1942, attacking French held territory, and taking losses to the French.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2022, 06:08:43 AM
"On July 16, 1790, the young American Congress declares that a swampy, humid, muddy and mosquito-infested site on the Potomac River between Maryland and Virginia will be the nation’s permanent capital. “Washington,” in the newly designated federal “District of Columbia,” was named after the leader of the American Revolution and the country’s first president: George Washington. It was Washington who saw the area’s potential economic and accessibility benefits due to the proximity of navigable rivers.

George Washington, who had been in office just over a year when the capital site was determined, asked a French architect and city planner named Pierre L Enfant to design the capital. In 1793, the first cornerstones of the president’s mansion, which was eventually renamed the “White House,” were laid. George Washington, however, never lived in the mansion as it was not inhabitable until 1800. Instead, President John Adams and his wife Abigail were the White House’s first residents. They lived there less than a year; Thomas Jefferson moved in in 1801."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2022, 08:01:33 AM
For turning the tide of naval warfare in the Pacific Theater while incurring no casualties in World War II, the USS Washington is one of America's most famous navy Ships. Prior to American entrance into World War II, the USS Washington battleship’s initial assignment was escorting supply ships between England and Russia in support of the Lend Lease Act. One of two North Carolina-class battleships, she would gain her fame in battle after being transferred to the South Pacific in 1942. The Washington is responsible for turning the tide of naval warfare in the Pacific Theater while miraculously incurring no casualties or damage from enemy fire through the entire war. She holds the record for enemy tonnage sunk and remains, to this day, the only battleship to sink an enemy battleship in a one to one surface engagement, marking her one of America’s most famous navy ships of all time. Engaging the Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) at what would become known as the Third Battle of Savo Island, the Washington was prepared to assert dominance in her new theater of operations. During the battle, the South Dakota and USN destroyers took the brunt of the damage, while the Washington maneuvered around the IJN formation, unloading on the Kirishima and landing forty-nine hits. The Kirishima was set ablaze, which also disabled her steering capability; she was scuttled the following day.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on July 17, 2022, 10:23:36 AM
So the sinking of the Hood does not count?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2022, 10:42:27 AM
So the sinking of the Hood does not count?
The Hood was classified (usually) as a battle cruiser, and the Bismark was accomanied by the heavy cruiser Prinz Eugen which MIGHT have fired the damaging round that killed the Hood, probably not.  

On the other hand, the IJN Kirishima was a battle cruiser initially, then uprated to a full BB between the wars.  The USS South Dakota was with the Washington but had electrical problems and dropped out of the fight.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 17, 2022, 11:21:19 AM
It is an interesting battle and Oldendorf was a master of gunnery.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 18, 2022, 05:49:56 AM
104 years ago today in 1918, Czar Nicholas II of Russia, his wife Alexandra, their five children, and four of their servants are shot and stabbed to death by Bolshevik revolutionaries.
Nicholas was crowned Emperor of Russia on May 26th 1896. At the time he inherited one of the largest and most powerful empires in the world. However his reign would be plagued with internal and external crises early on. Modernization of the 20th century would lead to the lower classes of Russia clamoring for political reform from the old autocratic system. Officials in his government would be the target of violent activism and assassinations. And in response his government would sometimes harshly respond to protests and provocations.
In 1904 Russia would go to war with Japan and lose an entire fleet in battle. Nicholas would decide to double-down and send their prestigious Baltic fleet across the world. But the Japanese would also destroy this fleet and inflict over 100,000 casualties on the Russians, forcing them to cede territory. The cost and failure of the war was a direct cause of the 1905 Russian Revolution which the Czar’s government violently suppressed and would almost completely alienate him from the general population.
The Czar was also affected by a more personal issue too. His son Alexi was born a hemophiliac taking up much of his time and concern. Desperate to heal their son, the royal family turned to a bizarre mystic named Grigori Rasputin who would manipulate them and alienate many of the Czar’s closest advisers and noblemen.
The final catalyst to the Czar’s downfall would be the horrendous losses and failure in World War One. The February Revolution of 1917 would have the Czar abdicate his throne, including for his sick son. By all accounts, the family was relieved to give up power and avoid politics. They planned to live a comfortable life in exile. The royal family and their loyal servants were imprisoned in the Alexander Palace before being moved to Tobolsk and then Yekaterinburg. As the Russian Civil War escalated, Allied powers intervened and the Bolshevik government lost ground. The Royal family’s conditions deteriorated and became harsher. The Soviets would periodically execute servants and guards who were kind to the family. And with Allied forces getting close to their location, direct orders from Vladmir Lenin had forced the family and their remaining four servants to pack their belongings and go into the basement to be moved to another place. 
On the dark early morning of July 17th, while the family sat together a group of Bolsheviks entered the room and read them an execution sentence. The Czar and his wife stood in front of their children and protested what was about to be done. Pistols were drawn and unloaded on the family. The Czar and his wife were killed immediately by the bullets and shielding their children. The noise from all the gunshots concerned the Bolsheviks and smoke covered the entire room making it difficult to see. The children and servants laid wounded and crying. The Soviets walked around the smokey room, stabbing and beating the survivors to death. And eventually shooting each of them in the head to ensure they were gone. The execution lasted a total of 20 minutes. The location and disposal of their bodies was a subject of great mystery for the next century.
With their deaths, one of the most important political dynasties of the last 300 years was extinguished. Fearful of the family being made martyrs, the Soviet Government denied the family was dead for decades. There were also impostors who claimed they were the missing royal family. Most of the remains were found in 1979, and the last two in 2007. After the fall of the Soviet Union, the new Russian government would formally rebury the remains of the royal family. They would also open a murder investigation in 1993 but failed to find any of the executors still alive. Nicholas, his wife, and their children are formally canonized as saints by the Russian Orthodox Church.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 18, 2022, 10:28:47 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/DmDXjkw.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 18, 2022, 07:35:59 PM
On August 13, 1886, Captain Moses Harris from Fort Custer in the Montana Territories marched into Yellowstone and assumed the title of park superintendent. He was the first of a dozen military officers to lead the park until the National Park Service took over in 1918.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 18, 2022, 07:38:59 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Adolf Hitler Publishes First Volume of Mein Kampf (1925)
Hitler dictated his manifesto, whose title means "my struggle," while serving a prison term for treason. The book, filled with anti-Semitic outpourings, political ideology, and strategy for world domination, became the bible of National Socialism. By the end of WWII, about 10 million copies of the book had been sold or distributed in Germany—owing much to the fact that every newlywed couple and every soldier at the battlefront received a free copy.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2022, 07:23:20 AM
I tried to read that once, it literally is unreadable, it's like unedited random notions pouring out.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2022, 09:05:02 AM
I also started it decades ago when I was a reader

nope
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2022, 09:07:49 AM
Hitler told his thoughts to a fellow Nazi in prison with him I forget which one now, who wrote it for him, I presume he was scared to edit it at all.

It's like a torrent of disconnected notions, a lot of it has nothing to do with Jews and others, but much is about racial purity and Lebensraum, and the racial struggle he saw as inherent in humans.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2022, 08:53:22 AM
A commemorative tower was built in Scotland for a cat named Towser, who caught nearly 30,000 mice in her lifetime.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2022, 09:01:55 AM
Although it is thought of as having been 'written' by Hitler, Mein Kampf is not a book in the usual sense. Hitler never actually sat down and pecked at a typewriter or wrote longhand, but instead dictated it to Rudolf Hess while pacing around his prison cell in 1923-24 and later at an inn at Berchtesgaden.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 21, 2022, 01:15:28 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Tennessee Biology Teacher Found Guilty of Teaching Evolution (1925)
In 1925, Tennessee biology teacher John Scopes was tried for violating the Butler Act, a law enacted earlier that year banning the teaching of evolution. He was found guilty and fined $100, but the verdict was later reversed. The "Monkey Trial," as it came to be known, served as a flashpoint for debate among religious scholars, scientists, and the public, but despite the outcry stemming from the case, the Butler Act was not repealed until 1967.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 21, 2022, 05:21:32 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t45.1600-4/280787204_23851332705710173_6184603288660521837_n.jpg?stp=cp0_dst-jpg_p526x296_q75_spS444&_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=e84a38&_nc_ohc=0e82x7rfnLoAX-6Ngw0&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9CxcSfa0na9LGT2nvn04yNpHac-kmtdC1VyJTfwunt9g&oe=62DF86D8)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 22, 2022, 08:22:21 AM
Today in History: On July 21, 365, the city of Alexandria, Egypt, and surrounding villages and towns were devastated by a tsunami caused by what is known as the 365 Crete earthquake.
Scientists believe the earthquake in the Eastern Mediterranean was actually two tremors in succession. Today, geologists estimate the undersea earthquake to have been a magnitude of 8.0 or higher. The quake sent a wall of water across the Mediterranean Sea toward the Egyptian coast.
The Roman historian Ammianus Marcellinus described the earthquake and tsunami in detail.
"Slightly after daybreak, and heralded by a thick succession of fiercely shaken thunderbolts, the solidity of the whole earth was made to shake and shudder, and the sea was driven away, its waves were rolled back, and it disappeared, so that the abyss of the depths was uncovered and many-shaped varieties of sea-creatures were seen stuck in the slime; the great wastes of those valleys and mountains, which the very creation had dismissed beneath the vast whirlpools, at that moment, as it was given to be believed, looked up at the sun's rays. Many ships, then, were stranded as if on dry land, and people wandered at will about the paltry remains of the waters to collect fish and the like in their hands; then the roaring sea as if insulted by its repulse rises back in turn, and through the teeming shoals dashed itself violently on islands and extensive tracts of the mainland, and flattened innumerable buildings in towns or wherever they were found. Thus in the raging conflict of the elements, the face of the earth was changed to reveal wondrous sights. For the mass of waters returning when least expected killed many thousands by drowning, and with the tides whipped up to a height as they rushed back, some ships, after the anger of the watery element had grown old, were seen to have sunk, and the bodies of people killed in shipwrecks lay there, faces up or down. Other huge ships, thrust out by the mad blasts, perched on the roofs of houses, as happened at Alexandria, and others were hurled nearly two miles from the shore, like the Laconian vessel near the town of Methone which I saw when I passed by, yawning apart from long decay."
Approximately 5,000 people lost their lives in Alexandria; another 45,000 died outside the city. The shoreline was permanently changed, and the buildings of Alexandria's Royal Quarter were overtaken by the sea following the tsunami.
In 1995, archaeologists discovered the ruins of the old city off the coast of present-day Alexandria.
The quake also caused widespread destruction in the Diocese of Macedonia (modern Greece), Africa Proconsularis (northern Libya), Egypt, Cyprus, Sicily, and Hispania (Spain). On Crete, nearly all towns were destroyed.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 22, 2022, 09:33:37 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

John Dillinger Killed by the FBI (1934)
During a nine-year stint in Indiana state prisons for a 1924 holdup, Dillinger learned the craft of bank robbery from his fellow inmates. After being paroled in 1933, he went on to commit five bank robberies in four months. Captured by police yet again, Dillinger escaped jail twice and was named "public enemy number one" by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). His run came to an end when FBI agents shot him to death outside a Chicago theater.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 23, 2022, 12:50:49 PM
Meet Elijah McCoy, The Pioneering Black Engineer Whose Inventions Inspired The Phrase ‘The Real McCoy’
By Genevieve Carlton 

In 1872, Elijah McCoy created a tiny device that automatically lubricated steam engines while they were running — and revolutionized the railroad industry in the process.


https://allthatsinteresting.com/elijah-mccoy (https://allthatsinteresting.com/elijah-mccoy)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 24, 2022, 10:07:48 AM
WW II uncovered[/iurl]  Bobby Jones: World Champion Golfer Goes Ashore on D-Day +1 at the Age of 40 Years Old

"I don't want to be a hoopty-da officer of some camp," -Bobby Jones
According to Golf Digest: "Robert Tyre Jones Jr., 40, married, the father of two, 4-F, could have served his country during World War II from the home front. More widely known as Bobby Jones, he could have played golf, participating in exhibitions to raise money on behalf of the war effort. In May of 1942, he lobbied the Commanding Officer of his Army Reserve group to allow him to rejoin the service, while insisting that a ceremonial commission was unacceptable. A month later, the Army agreed to his request and he was commissioned a Captain in the Army Air Corps. In June 1942, he was assigned to the First Fighter Command at Mitchel Field on Long Island, New York."
"By March 1943, he was promoted to Major, and later that year, he was assigned as a Military Intelligence Officer for the 84th Fighter Wing of the Ninth Air Force; he then deployed in England."
"Jones' unit was converted to infantry, and on June 7, 1944, D-Day Plus One, he went ashore at Normandy. For two days, he and his unit were under intense enemy fire. Jones would go on to serve with his unit on the front line and eventually partake in the interrogation of German POWs. He was discharged with the rank of Lieutenant Colonel."
Bobby Jones wanted to serve his country - despite his age, he did just that. Jones' legendary golf career included wins at the U.S. Open in 1923, 1926, 1929 and 1930; the Open Championship in 1926, 1927 and 1930; the U.S. Amateur in 1924, 1925, 1927, 1928 and 1930; and the British Amateur in 1930.
After retiring from competitive golf, he founded the Augusta National Golf Club in Augusta, Georgia, in 1933; in 1934, he co-founded the Masters Tournament.
Diagnosed with Syringomyelia in 1948, Bobby would be confined to a wheelchair for the rest of his life. This did not stop him from being a champion for professional golf as an ambassador for The Masters. He embodied the spirit of the game and would go on to be posthumously inducted into the World Golf Hall of Fame in 1974.
Lieutenant Colonel Robert Tyre Jones passed away on December 18, 1971 at the age of 69 years old. He lies in rest at Oakland Cemetery in Atlanta Georgia. Lest We Forget.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 24, 2022, 10:08:07 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/vEE43yf.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 25, 2022, 11:48:40 AM
The Ottoman Empire under Bayezid II posed a formidable threat to the Papal States and the rest of Christendom. During the last part of the 15th century, Pope Innocent VIII devised a clever way to neutralize the threat—he held the Sultan’s brother Cem as a hostage. Whenever Bayezid would become troublesome, Innocent would remind him that he held Cem and Bayezid would back down. Innocent also used Cem’s captivity to extract enormous payments from the Ottoman Sultan—an amount equal to all other papal revenue combined. Much of the money paid by the Ottomans was used to fund the construction of the Sistine Chapel. Innocent also required Bayezid to deliver over the Holy Lance, the spear reputed to have been thrust into Christ’s side during the crucifixion.
 
So Bayezid must have cared deeply for his brother, to accede to such extortionate demands. Right? Wrong. It wasn’t by threatening to kill Cem that Pope Innocent was able to demand and receive the ransoms, but rather by threatening to release him.
Cem and Bayezid, half-brothers, were rivals to the Ottoman throne. Following the death of their father Sultan Mehmet II, a civil war had broken out between factions favoring their competing claims. Cem was ultimately defeated and driven into exile, where he was captured and imprisoned by the Knights of St. John on the island of Rhodes, before being delivered over to Pope Innocent in 1489. There he became a valuable negotiating chip, who the Pope used to keep the Ottomans at bay and to fill his treasury. All he had to do to get Bayezid to back down from a fight, and to pony up a hefty fee, was threaten to release Cem from prison.
Innocent VIII, who was born Giovanni Battista Cybo, the son of a prominent Genoese family, had been elected pope in the hotly disputed conclave of 1484. As was often the case with medieval popes, Innocent was not a moral exemplar. He fathered at least two illegitimate sons before becoming a priest, one of whom he married into the powerful and wealthy de’ Medici family, in exchange for making 13-year-old Giovanni de’ Medici (the future Pope Leo X) a cardinal.
Innocent VIII’s eight-year pontificate ended with his death in Rome at age 59, on July 25, 1492, five hundred thirty years ago today.
In 1494 King Charles VIII of France, who had invaded Naples and the Italian peninsula at the Pope’s invitation, announced his intention to lead a crusade against the Ottomans, and he forced Pope Alexander VI to release Sultan Cem into his custody, intending to take him along.  But Cem died a month later, with Charles’ army still engaged in Naples. The crusade, which Innocent had called for years earlier, never happened.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on July 25, 2022, 12:11:57 PM
someone please wake me when CD is finished
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 26, 2022, 09:36:38 PM
on July 26,1908 the FBI was founded
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 27, 2022, 09:36:35 AM
In 1919, the first major aviation disaster in the United States occurred in Chicago. The Wingfoot Express blimp crashed into the Illinois Trust and Savings Bank, taking the lives of 13 people and injuring 27 more.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 27, 2022, 10:16:38 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/CxsMGSO.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 27, 2022, 10:25:48 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Korean War Veterans Memorial Dedicated (1995)
The Korean War Memorial is located on the US National Mall near the Lincoln Memorial and the Reflecting Pool in Washington, DC. Dedicated on the 42nd anniversary of the armistice ending the war, the memorial honors the American men and women who served in the conflict. The memorial is laid out in the form of a triangle intersecting a circle. Within the triangle are 19 statues of military personnel, representing a squad on patrol in the Korean landscape.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on July 27, 2022, 10:32:30 AM
Its my opinion that folks should only post truly interesting things on this thread and stop boring me to death

course thats just my opinion
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 27, 2022, 10:55:47 AM
:29:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on July 27, 2022, 10:59:06 AM
:29:
thats better 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 28, 2022, 09:24:19 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Maximilien Robespierre Guillotined (1794)
Known as "the Incorruptible" for his emphasis on civic morality, Robespierre became one of the leading figures of the French Revolution. He was an influential member of the Committee of Public Safety, the political body that controlled France during the bloody revolutionary period known as the "Reign of Terror." However, popular discontent with the committee's brutal measures soon grew, and Robespierre was guillotined in the coup of 9 Thermidor.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 30, 2022, 09:41:43 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Jimmy Hoffa Disappears from a Detroit Parking Lot (1975)
Hoffa, president of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, was an influential US labor leader with alleged ties to the Mafia. He led with brawn and charisma and made toughness his policy—whether dealing with management or with rival unions. In 1964, he was convicted of jury tampering and fraud and sentenced to 13 years in jail, but President Richard Nixon commuted his sentence in 1971. Hoffa's unexplained disappearance in 1975 prompted decades of speculation.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 31, 2022, 11:32:09 AM
Happy Birthday, Major General Smedley Butler!
Born July 30, 1881, Butler gained renown as a wounded teenage officer in the Boxer Rebellion and was twice awarded the Medal of Honor for exploits in Mexico and Haiti (1914-1915).  Legend has it that Butler had a Marine Corps tattoo shot off during the Boxer Rebellion?  During the rebellion, Butler took part in the relief of the siege of Tientsin and the march on Peking, suffering injuries during each battle. Outside the gates of Peking during fierce fighting, Butler was struck by a Chinese bullet that probably ricocheted off the walls of the foreign city. The bullet went off of the wall and struck his uniform button and furrowed across his chest taking off part of his large Marine Eagle, Globe, and Anchor tattoo.  Butler later remarked, "The bullet...carried off part of 'South America' from the Marine Corps emblem tattooed on my breast."
Butler served for 33 years in the Corps.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 31, 2022, 11:55:13 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
Jimmy Hoffa Disappears from a Detroit Parking Lot (1975)
Hoffa, president of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, was an influential US labor leader with alleged ties to the Mafia. He led with brawn and charisma and made toughness his policy—whether dealing with management or with rival unions. In 1964, he was convicted of jury tampering and fraud and sentenced to 13 years in jail, but President Richard Nixon commuted his sentence in 1971. Hoffa's unexplained disappearance in 1975 prompted decades of speculation.
I remember - think it was Penthouse or Hustler back in the day that had sources that he was processed in a meat plant(click bait really) It was titled "A Frank interview with Jimmy Hoffa" and showed a bunch of sausage links
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 31, 2022, 03:23:13 PM
I remember - think it was Penthouse or Hustler back in the day that had sources that he was processed in a meat plant(click bait really) It was titled "A Frank interview with Jimmy Hoffa" and showed a bunch of sausage links
Are you trying to convince us that you bought it for the articles?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: ELA on July 31, 2022, 04:26:57 PM
Are you trying to convince us that you bought it for the articles?
The alternative is that he bought a brown bag magazine for the sausage pics
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 01, 2022, 09:49:01 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY:

Jerry Garcia (1942)
Garcia was the lead guitarist and vocalist of the psychedelic rock band the Grateful Dead. His inimitable improvisational playing style helped make the Grateful Dead one of the most popular touring bands in the country. Closely involved with the San Francisco hippie movement, Garcia became heavily addicted to drugs but decided to turn his life around after emerging from a diabetic coma in 1986. He was at a drug rehabilitation center when he died suddenly in 1995.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 02, 2022, 07:53:13 AM
From the day the Panama Canal opened in 1914, America has relied upon the Canal to quickly shift military vessels from one coast to the other. But the Canal also imposed an unalterable rule in U.S. naval vessel design. Most naval ships simply had to fit through the canal. The original Panama Canal dimensions were immutable; Navy ships were built to comply with the canal’s original 320 meter length, 33.53 meter width, and 12.56 meter depth limitations, as well as meet a height constraint imposed by the Bridge of the Americas at Balboa.
From the early 1900’s, U.S. Navy ship designers toiled to cram as much combat power as possible through the Panama Canal’s locks. America’s massive, 45,000-ton Iowa-class battleships, built at the height of World War II, were so big they they had only mere inches of clearance on either side of the canal. America didn’t dare to defy the Panama Canal restrictions until until 1945, with the commissioning of the first Midway-class aircraft carriers.
Today, only America’s biggest and most valuable surface combatants (aircraft carriers and big-deck amphibious vessels) are permitted to exceed the design constraints imposed by the Panama Canal.
In mid-2016, new locks opened the canal to ships as large as 427 meters in length, 55 meters in width and 18.3 meters in depth. Today, supersized container ships, tankers and passenger ships use the new locks to move between the Pacific and the Atlantic Oceans.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 02, 2022, 09:03:19 AM
building back bigger
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 03, 2022, 08:46:22 AM
The Seven Days Campaign — A Turning Point More Important than Antietam? | HistoryNet (https://www.historynet.com/the-seven-days-campaign-a-turning-point-more-important-than-antietam/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=fb_americascivilwar&fbclid=IwAR0S6Mc70kOnLGqorTQeEscFWRlCy2tDAg3qxyAniXsabsEZd4wok1CIDxM)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2022, 10:34:02 AM
Even though the Armistice Agreement of 1953 ended the fighting in the Korean War, neither North nor South Korea signed the peace treaty; therefore, they are still officially at war.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2022, 11:00:57 AM
Atlanta's image challenged by facts of 1906 race massacre

https://apnews.com/article/Atlanta-race-massacre-9d738b6fa08d26ec91adfcd8fff30f7f
ATLANTA (AP) — Everyone who moves through downtown Atlanta today passes places where innocent Black men and women were pulled from trolleys, shot in their workplaces, chased through the streets and beaten to death by a mob of 10,000 white men and boys.

But few have been taught about the 1906 Atlanta Race Massacre, which shaped the city’s geography, economy, society and power structure in lasting ways. Much like the Red Summer of 1919 in the South and Northeast and the Tulsa Race Massacre of 1921 in Oklahoma would years later, the white-on-Black violence in Atlanta shattered dreams of racial harmony and forced thousands from their homes.

A grassroots coalition is working to restore Atlanta’s killings and their legacy to public memory. Historic markers and tours are planned for this September’s anniversary. A one-act play will be performed simultaneously at group dinners across the city. Organizers are seeking 500 hosts, with the ambitious goal of seating 5,000 people to discuss the lasting effects.

These activists say the massacre doesn’t fit comfortably in Atlanta’s “cradle of the civil rights movement” narrative, but they insist on truth-telling as some politicians push to ignore the nation’s history of racial violence.

Mislabeled a riot, the killings of at least 25 Black people and the destruction of Black-owned businesses had a specific purpose: thwarting their economic success and voting power before African-Americans could claim equal status, said King Williams, a journalist who gives tours describing what happened.

“The mob began its work early in the evening, pulling negroes from street cars and beating them with clubs, bricks and stones,” The Associated Press reported on Sept. 24, 1906, adding that “negroes were beaten, cut and stamped upon in an unreasoning, mad frenzy. If a negro ventured resistance or remonstrated, it meant practically sure death.”

The violence began where Georgia State University’s campus is now. Enraged by unsupported headlines about attacks on white women and the evils of “race-mixing,” the mob set fire to saloons and pounced on Black men and women headed home from work, Williams explains on the tour.

Their next target was the “Crystal Palace,” an opulent barbershop where Alonzo Herndon made his first fortune catering to white elites. Poorer white people couldn’t stomach such success by a Black man and shattered the place, Williams says.
Bodies were stacked at the statue of newspaperman Henry Grady. Williams describes Grady as a post-Civil War “demagogue who championed Atlanta, but also championed a lot of the racial rhetoric that we still see echoing today.” His statue is four blocks from CNN Center, and for most people “it’s just a thing they walk by,” Williams said.

Steps from there, some Black people either jumped or were thrown from the Forsyth Street bridge onto the railroad tracks below. Others reached shelter inside the gates of the Gammon Theological Seminary in Brownsville, a thriving African American neighborhood 3 miles (5 kilometers) to the south.

That’s where the mob, now “deputized” as law enforcers, came searching for weapons on the third day, ransacking businesses and pulling women and children from their homes. One white officer was killed and some 250 Black people were arrested, including 60 who were convicted. Not one white person was held responsible for any of the deaths, community organizer Ann Hill Bond said.

Community organizer Ann Hill Bond explains what happened in the Brownsville community during the 1906 Atlanta Race Massacre on June 10, 2022, in Atlanta, Georgia. Few have been taught about the 1906 Atlanta Race Massacre, which shaped the city’s geography, economy, society and power structure in lasting ways. Much like the Red Summer of 1919 in the South and Northeast and the Tulsa Race Massacre of 1921 in Oklahoma would years later, the white-on-Black violence in Atlanta shattered dreams of racial harmony and forced thousands from their homes. 
The cause was not in doubt. Atlanta Constitution editor Clark Howell and former Atlanta Journal publisher Hoke Smith had outdone each other vowing to disenfranchise Black voters while campaigning for governor. As Election Day approached, the papers printed baseless stories about attempted attacks on white women.

A Fulton County grand jury cited “inflammatory headlines” for fomenting the violence, but when “Voice of the Negro” publisher J. Maxwell Barber tied those articles to the racist campaigns, he was run out of town.

Once governor, Smith signed laws that kept most Black people from voting for another half-century. Thousands abandoned Atlanta, which became two-thirds white by 1910, the Census showed.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 03, 2022, 11:20:48 AM
The HS nearest me was called Grady HS, now it's midtown HS.  They have an amazing football stadium.

Atlantans like not to be reminded of this.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2022, 11:25:57 AM
I understand why some history needs to be remembered

I understand why some should be forgotten
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2022, 11:30:13 AM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/296664122_5634259316606279_8649086920548962461_n.png?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=qp1L48vU75kAX8uAwBm&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT8HvlT-iGc_gSi2kvHOhe2A8GUHKPve3sEe-amkWFGJMw&oe=62F06EFC)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 03, 2022, 11:31:11 AM
Atlanta did pretty well during the racial strife in the 60s mostly because it had pretty enlightened mayors at the time.

The city seems to be doing OK now, though crime has been up of late.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 05, 2022, 09:17:20 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/WnZqTE9.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 05, 2022, 11:55:45 AM
The Seven Days Campaign — A Turning Point More Important than Antietam? | HistoryNet (https://www.historynet.com/the-seven-days-campaign-a-turning-point-more-important-than-antietam/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=fb_americascivilwar&fbclid=IwAR0S6Mc70kOnLGqorTQeEscFWRlCy2tDAg3qxyAniXsabsEZd4wok1CIDxM)

That was a fascinating read and brings up an interesting counterfactual hypothetical that isn't implausible. 

Suppose that Johnston hadn't been wounded at Seven Pines:

America in 1880 or 1900 could be very different from the actual timeline.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 05, 2022, 11:59:22 AM
I think Davis would have relieved Johnston if he lost Richmond, the two did not like each other.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 07, 2022, 12:01:41 PM
A descendant of chiefs and warriors, Casey Thompson is believed to be the first prominent Husker football player with Native roots. It’s easier to have perspective on thumb injuries and quarterback competitions after growing up hearing tales of men who fought life-and-death battles, including two great-great-great-great grandfathers who were once held hostage by a duplicitous U.S. military commander named George Custer in the late 1860s.

https://omaha.com/sports/huskers/football/casey-thompson-is-blending-two-worlds-his-native-history-and-love-of-football/article_191982ea-14b7-11ed-8ffd-43db88ef3b20.html (https://omaha.com/sports/huskers/football/casey-thompson-is-blending-two-worlds-his-native-history-and-love-of-football/article_191982ea-14b7-11ed-8ffd-43db88ef3b20.html)

One was Lon Ahpeatone (pronounced ahp-ee-ton), the last chief of the Kiowa and a great-great-great grandfather to Casey. He was most known for dispelling to his people the “Messiah Craze” of the 1890s — the belief of an imminent apocalypse with life as they knew it ending after the Dawes Act of 1887 established breaking up reservations for individual Natives to farm.

Another great-great-great-grandfather and chief is named in a U.S. Supreme Court case — Lone Wolf v. Hitchcock — that ultimately decided in 1903 Congress could unilaterally alter a treaty with an American Indian tribe.

CASEY THOMPSON'S FAMILY
Perhaps the most famous is Satanta (pronounced say-TAN-day), a Kiowa war chief in the 1860s and 1870s and great-great-great-great-grandfather to the Nebraska quarterback. He signed multiple treaties. He once stole a bugle from a skirmish with U.S. soldiers and played it in future encounters to cause confusion.

Satanta was taken into custody multiple times including once by Custer, who went back on a truce and held him until the Kiowa people moved to a reservation in southwestern Oklahoma — the tribe had once lived as far north as Montana and the Rocky Mountains. Satanta later died in a prison in Huntsville, Texas, jumping out of a second-story window in 1878 when told he would never be released.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 07, 2022, 12:54:05 PM
Lone Wolf v. Hitchcock | Oyez (https://www.oyez.org/cases/1900-1940/187us553)

Facts of the case
Lone Wolf was a Kiowa Indian chief, living in the Indian Territory created by the Medicine Lodge Treaty of 1867. A provision in the treaty required that three-fourths of the adult males in each of the Kiowa, Apache, and Comanche tribes agree to subsequent changes to the terms of the treaty. In 1892, Congress attempted to alter the reservation lands granted to the tribes. In enacting the relevant legislation, Congress substantively changed the terms of the treaty and opened 2 million acres of reservation lands to settlement by non-Indians. Lone Wolf filed a complaint on behalf of the three tribes in the Supreme Court of the District of Columbia, alleging that Congress' change violated the 1867 treaty. That court dismissed the case. The United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit affirmed the decision. Lone Wolf and the tribes appealed to the Supreme Court.
Question
Can treaties between the United States and American Indian tribes be broken unilaterally by Congress under its plenary power? 
Conclusion
In a unanimous decision, the Court affirmed the Court of Appeals and upheld the Congressional action. The Court rejected the Indians' argument that Congress' action was a taking under the Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment. Justice Edward D. White reasoned that matters involving Indian lands were the sole jurisdiction of Congress. Congress therefore had the power to "abrogate the provisions of an Indian treaty," including the two-million acre change. Justice John M. Harlan concurred in the judgment.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 07, 2022, 12:57:55 PM
Indian givers
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 08, 2022, 08:20:36 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Quit India: Gandhi Calls on Public to "Do or Die" (1942)
In 1942, after Great Britain refused to grant immediate independence to India, Mohandas Gandhi launched the Quit India movement. Thousands of Indians responded to the call for civil disobedience, while the British attempted to suppress the rebellion by arresting over 100,000 people, levying mass fines, and subjecting demonstrators to public floggings. Though the movement ultimately failed, it showed Britain that India could not be governed for much longer.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 08, 2022, 09:18:16 AM
Fort Stevenson, ND. Between 1883-1890. Dakota Akicita facing a firing squad instead of giving up his Wapaha (Headdress of feathers) while boarding school children are forced to watch. If we’re going to get things right in this country, we must not be afraid and face the truth of real American history. We owe this to our children and the future of this great nation.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/272461654_5611700508856789_5161628544967469058_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=lglkFs45RXgAX_JVMt-&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT930K_r9IXsoqhvsqNAwa1FncZj6hsolAbQaqop6Rnhcg&oe=62F6196E)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 08, 2022, 11:58:06 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/j1rmrAB.png)

1943 state of WA.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 08, 2022, 11:58:22 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/9MmpTyh.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 08, 2022, 12:27:05 PM
Wow,I did not know this, cool photos.

Flattening hills to build Seattle, 1905-1930 - Rare Historical Photos (https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/seattle-regrading-old-photographs/?fbclid=IwAR2kBY0EOHxnZtffv4zukFxUurSBJAqlMHqvGLrMAlbYBoc0UoAbwFWe_M4)

(https://i.imgur.com/41slZLt.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 08, 2022, 04:43:44 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyHYSUGAvTM
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 08, 2022, 04:57:40 PM
[img width=273.429 height=461]https://i.imgur.com/9MmpTyh.png[/img]
LoL
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 08, 2022, 05:09:14 PM
Wow,I did not know this, cool photos.

Flattening hills to build Seattle, 1905-1930 - Rare Historical Photos (https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/seattle-regrading-old-photographs/?fbclid=IwAR2kBY0EOHxnZtffv4zukFxUurSBJAqlMHqvGLrMAlbYBoc0UoAbwFWe_M4)

(https://i.imgur.com/41slZLt.jpg)
A lot went into building Seattle. There is an underground city you can tour. The essentially raised the city by one story due to flooding and sewerage backups.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 08, 2022, 06:14:47 PM
That is a bit similar to Underground Atlanta.  Railroads run through downtown today and gradually they were covered over and the store fronts moved up a level to be on the street level.  There is a massive project just starting to continue this out to where MB stadium is, an area called "The Gulch" where the RRs are still mostly exposed.

But none of that is akin to what I see in the photos of Seattle.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 08, 2022, 11:10:49 PM
unfortunately, New Orleans didn't do something similar
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2022, 07:38:54 AM
unfortunately, New Orleans didn't do something similar
They could have dumped all that dirt in NO ...?

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 09, 2022, 08:00:56 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Richard Nixon Resigns as US President (1974)
In June 1972, five burglars were arrested after breaking into the Democratic Party's national headquarters at the Watergate Hotel complex in Washington, DC. The motive for the break-in remains unknown. Richard Nixon and his aides denied involvement in the scandal, but their cover-up unraveled, and Nixon resigned in order to avoid facing impeachment. His successor, Gerald Ford, issued him a pardon for any crimes he may have committed as president.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 09, 2022, 08:37:49 AM
In old World War II photos and many World War II movies, the iconic American tank of the war, the M4 Sherman, can be seen carrying logs on the sides of its armor. The sight makes many wonder why a Sherman tank is hauling around the bulk of a tree while it’s already carrying so much.

The answer is that it was just good practice. A good answer is that GIs of any generation turn out to be pretty good engineers and problem solvers, no matter how much education they’ve had.


While the M4 might have been an effective battle tank that was easy to produce, ship, and fight in combat, it had some failings. One of the biggest failings (especially if you were on Sherman tank crew) was that the enemy had the answer to beating the Sherman tank’s armor.

Shermans were designed for mobility, which meant that it was fast-moving compared to other tanks, but to get that speed and maneuverability meant it had to sacrifice on of the other key components that made a tank deadly: armor or firepower.

Since the Germans were building monster tanks with advanced armor (for the time period, at least) American military thinkers decided sacrificing firepower wasn’t the way to go. That only left them with armor.

At the beginning of the war, American military thought believed the tank would support the infantry in combat and didn’t foresee the large tank-on-tank battles that would rage across North Africa and the Eastern Front. When those things did happen, tank crews realized their armor needed all the help it could get.

German shape charges and copper-cone anti-tank weapons could burn right through the skin of the M4 Sherman tank. Somewhere along the way, some genius figured out that the copper cone weapons the Nazis were using were less effective on wood than they were on metal. It didn’t provide complete protection, but some defense was always better than none.

Being a bunch of naturally resourceful GIs looking to save their own butts, they began to use whatever they could to slow down the velocity of enemy weapons. Sandbags were a natural go-to and many tanks utilized them with their jerry-rigged up-armor. Another method, less plentiful in North Africa, was the logs of fallen trees.

After a good tank or artillery battle in Europe, felled trees were plentiful. Logs also had an advantage over sandbags, a secondary benefit. They could be used to help dislodge the vehicle if it ever found itself stuck in mud, a common battlefield problem.

There was no way a couple of logs were going to really stop a German 88 millimeter tank round, but sometimes that didn’t matter. The illusion of increased armor can be enough to raise a tank crew’s morale.

There was one more benefit to fitting your Sherman tank with logs instead of sandbags, tank parts or whatever else wasn’t tied down and might stop a projectile. Tying them to the sides and front of the tank gave the vehicle some space between it and other passing tanks, creating a standoff distance between it and any other tank that might be driving by.


Trees became so effective for the latter two reasons (it didn’t really do much for any kind of anti-tank round) that Soviet Red Army tanks began leaving the factory with tree trunks tied to the sides. The logs were so effective against the Russian winter and rains that the USSR had to give every tank a chance to pull itself out of the mud.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 09, 2022, 08:50:03 AM
(1) Rush - The Trees - Bing video (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=the+trees+by+rush&view=detail&mid=24FF2718668600C22ED924FF2718668600C22ED9&FORM=VIRE0&ru=%2fsearch%3fq%3dthe%2btrees%2bby%2brush%26form%3dANNTH1%26refig%3d69472e68bb994e20a908ef5d62741079)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 09, 2022, 09:23:06 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wnt1pnYUlgU&t=4s


Despite getting court martialed 3Xs he still received a General Discharge in 1957.He took a radio job in Boston that lasted 3 months before getting fired for taking the company van to NYC to buy some weed
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2022, 09:31:54 AM
US Army tactics relied on fast Tank Destroyers to engage enemy tanks while the Shermans supported infantry.  That was a decent theory, but the reality of warfare of course is not nearly so clean cut.  Fortunately, for us, the Germans couldn't make nearly as many Panthers and Tigers and later in the war struggled to find fuel for them.

The Brits upped their game by fitting the 17 pounder gun to one in four Shermans, that gun could penetrate most German armor at a reasonable distance.  We later fitted the 76 mm to a version of the Sherman which was similar, it was only one mm wider than the standard 75 mm but had a longer barrel and a much larger charge.

The Israelis later fitted a 105 mm main gun to Shermans.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2022, 09:51:22 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/ymhx7NR.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 10, 2022, 07:25:31 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Ferdinand Magellan Sets Sail to Circumnavigate Globe (1519)
In 1518, Spanish king Charles I approved navigator Ferdinand Magellan's plan to sail to the Spice Islands by a western route. On the way, Magellan crossed the "Sea of the South" and renamed it the Pacific Ocean because of the calm crossing. His ambitious voyage proved definitively the roundness of the Earth and revealed the Americas as a new world, separate from Asia. Though Magellan is often credited with being the first to circumnavigate the globe, he never actually returned to Europe.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 10, 2022, 07:47:52 AM
The Brits upped their game by fitting the 17 pounder gun to one in four Shermans, that gun could penetrate most German armor at a reasonable distance.  We later fitted the 76 mm to a version of the Sherman which was similar, it was only one mm wider than the standard 75 mm but had a longer barrel and a much larger charge.

The Israelis later fitted a 105 mm main gun to Shermans.
Never understood why the GIs didn't insist for the same.The Sherman was lighter/faster/reliable than enemy tanks just put the bigger gun on. The M1A1 artillery piece was magnificent along with the 105s/155s.Sure the Germans had the venerable 88(8.8) but across the board US doctrine was much more successful than that of the Gerries
Viewing the Italian campaign, Field Marshal Erwin Rommel commented, “The enemy’s tremendous superiority in artillery, and even more in the air, has broken the front open.”  During the Normandy campaign, Rommel added, “Also in evidence is their great superiority in artillery and outstandingly large supply of ammunition.”  By any reasonable standard, especially during the latter part of World War II, the American artillery arm was very clearly superior to that of the Germans.

And the Wehrmacht way over did it in number of tank designs,making logistics/maintenance a real nightmare.The could have stuck to the one Stug design and perhaps the Panzer IV. That would have been more efficient,cost effective and easier to produce en masse than nit picking with designs that may have been a bitch to fight but more often than not broke down or ran out of gas getting to battles
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 10, 2022, 09:51:47 AM
https://youtu.be/juDbb5LNIlY
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Riffraft on August 10, 2022, 11:27:08 AM
https://youtu.be/juDbb5LNIlY
Cheese is the food I live for.  One of my favorite activities is to go to a cheesemonger and just pick up a variety of different types of cheese I haven't tried yet.

I don't care if eating a lot of cheese is "unheathy". I am never giving up cheese. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 10, 2022, 12:10:38 PM
Never understood why the GIs didn't insist for the same.The Sherman was lighter/faster/reliable than enemy tanks just put the bigger gun on. The M1A1 artillery piece was magnificent along with the 105s/155s.Sure the Germans had the venerable 88(8.8) but across the board US doctrine was much more successful than that of the Gerries
Viewing the Italian campaign, Field Marshal Erwin Rommel commented, “The enemy’s tremendous superiority in artillery, and even more in the air, has broken the front open.”  During the Normandy campaign, Rommel added, “Also in evidence is their great superiority in artillery and outstandingly large supply of ammunition.”  By any reasonable standard, especially during the latter part of World War II, the American artillery arm was very clearly superior to that of the Germans.

And the Wehrmacht way over did it in number of tank designs,making logistics/maintenance a real nightmare.The could have stuck to the one Stug design and perhaps the Panzer IV. That would have been more efficient,cost effective and easier to produce en masse than nit picking with designs that may have been a bitch to fight but more often than not broke down or ran out of gas getting to battles
Cincy already partially answered but the Sherman was a pre-WWII design. When it was designed most everybody treated and designed tanks as infantry support so they only needed armor against Infantry weapons and only needed armament against pill boxes at most.

The anti-tank weapon was a thing called a Tank Destroyer which was lightly armored but heavily armed to take out enemy tanks.

Wartime experience showed that this didn't work out in practice. Tanks were forced into the anti tank role for which they were ill-equipped while tank destroyers were both vulnerable to tank rounds and ill-equipped for the infantry support role into which they were often placed due to rapidly changing circumstances.

I used to agree with the typical criticism of the German tank designs as being overly complex thus reducing German tank numbers but their strategy actually makes sense. Tanks weren't their main limitation. Their main limitations were fuel and trained tank crews (part of the reason for their shortage of trained crews was due to a lack of fuel for training). Anyway, if you are limited primarily by a lack of fuel and secondarily by a lack of tank crews then it makes sense to utilize what limited fuel and crews you do have in the world's most advanced tanks.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 10, 2022, 12:43:30 PM
Not really I didn't book mark the channel but Germany wasted time on too many designs and variants.Tigers where like 52 freakin' tons,Ran out of gas a lot,tranny and drive shaft problems because of excessive weight.Could have kept spitting out stugs,and the 4s were more than enough to square of with what the allies had. Sherman could of been upgunned yet lost none of it's reliability or little speed
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 10, 2022, 02:41:39 PM
Not really I didn't book mark the channel but Germany wasted time on too many designs and variants.Tigers where like 52 freakin' tons,Ran out of gas a lot,tranny and drive shaft problems because of excessive weight.Could have kept spitting out stugs,and the 4s were more than enough to square of with what the allies had. Sherman could of been upgunned yet lost none of it's reliability or little speed
Not even close.
This site (http://www.combinedfleet.com/economic.htm) has a chart that shows global productive capacity in about 1937. 
[th][size=+1]Country[/size][/th]
[th][size=+1]% of Total Warmaking Potential[/size][/th]

United States
41.7%

Germany
14.4%

USSR
14.0%

UK
10.2%

France
4.2%

Japan
3.5%

Italy
2.5%

Seven Powers (total)
(90.5%)


It was actually worse for Germany and Japan because the US still had a lot of depression-era slack in 1937 while Germany and Japan were already operating on more of a war production basis.

Even just using the figures above though, the combination of the UK and the USSR could out-produce Germany by roughly 5:3 and once the US got involved that ratio was more like 5:1.

The T34's were clearly superior to the Mark IV while the Shermans and British tanks were roughly equals with the Mark IV. Look, you can't win a war with comparable equipment when your enemies can make 4-5 times as much equipment.

The only plausible path to victory when you are being out-manufactured by 4:1 is to build substantially better equipment.

I get where you are coming from because I've made a similar argument myself. Someone will extol the virtues of the German late-war tanks and denigrade Shermans and I'll point out that Shermans are a lot better than anything the Whermacht had when you provide the Shermans with something like a 5:1 numerical superiority.

That makes it seem like the Germans should have built more Mark IV's to keep closer to numerical parity but that wasn't a viable option for at least three reasons:

No, building more Mark IV's would absolutely not have been a viable strategy for the Germans.

A similar argument is made regarding aircraft. The Germans built some phenomenal planes during WWII especially their ME262 jet. I've heard people argue that they'd have been better off expending their resources building more Bf109's and FW190's instead. This argument suffers from the same flaws as you argument that they should have built more Mark IV tanks. At the end of the war the Germans had plenty of planes and tanks, what they lacked were pilots, tank crews, and fuel.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 10, 2022, 04:21:43 PM
I have no idea what direction you're going in.I'm talking tanks/Armor - Guys Like chieftain,axis forums.Glantz,Zaloga,Zwartz have stated the Reich could have trimmed down their line up.I'm not refering to numbers produced just ridiculous numbers of silly designs of not only tanks but all sorts of armor - for practical,all-pupose uses.The GD Tiger were great on the wide open eastern front they had a hell of a time in the more diverse European landscapes with ravines,rivers,valley's hills,mountains. Many bridges they couldn't cross because of weight.Also the Wehrmacht could ill afford to feed gas guzzlers later in the War.Panzer IV and Stugs could have been Made in much greater numbers and be cost effective
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 10, 2022, 06:40:17 PM
I have no idea what direction you're going in.I'm talking tanks/Armor - Guys Like chieftain,axis forums.Glantz,Zaloga,Zwartz have stated the Reich could have trimmed down their line up.I'm not refering to numbers produced just ridiculous numbers of silly designs of not only tanks but all sorts of armor - for practical,all-pupose uses.The GD Tiger were great on the wide open eastern front they had a hell of a time in the more diverse European landscapes with ravines,rivers,valley's hills,mountains. Many bridges they couldn't cross because of weight.Also the Wehrmacht could ill afford to feed gas guzzlers later in the War.Panzer IV and Stugs could have been Made in greater much numbers and cost effective
I agree they could have built a lot more tanks. My point is that without crews or fuel those tanks would have been worthless. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 12, 2022, 09:24:25 AM
Thylacoleo, an extinct species of lion, had opposable thumbs not too different from human thumbs.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 13, 2022, 08:32:50 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Cortés Conquers Tenochtitlán (1521)
Tenochtitlán was the flourishing capital of the Aztec Empire with an estimated population of between 200,000 and 300,000, a unique system of lake agriculture known as chinampas, and a ceremonial precinct that contained a great pyramid sacred to the Aztec war god Huitzilopochtli. Spanish conquistador Hernán Cortés was chased from the city in 1520, but returned a year later, took the city after a three-month siege, and razed it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 14, 2022, 12:24:58 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Northeast Blackout of 2003 Begins (2003)
Caused by a cascading failure of more than 100 power plants originating in Ohio, the Northeast Blackout of 2003 was the largest power outage in North American history, affecting around 50 million people in eight US states and Ontario, Canada. The power outage began just after 4 PM and brought traffic and public transportation to a standstill, leaving many commuters stranded. Power was not fully restored until August 16.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: ELA on August 14, 2022, 09:30:35 PM
Cheese is the food I live for.  One of my favorite activities is to go to a cheesemonger and just pick up a variety of different types of cheese I haven't tried yet.

I don't care if eating a lot of cheese is "unheathy". I am never giving up cheese.
Man, I am the opposite.  My sister and I are clones, except for cheese.  She is on your wavelength, and aside from swiss or provolone and a sandwich, I hate cheese.  She met us in Nashville last week, and said she could handle the pool snacks one day.  It was like 9 kinds of cheese.  I passed on all of them
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: ELA on August 14, 2022, 09:33:13 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Northeast Blackout of 2003 Begins (2003)
Caused by a cascading failure of more than 100 power plants originating in Ohio, the Northeast Blackout of 2003 was the largest power outage in North American history, affecting around 50 million people in eight US states and Ontario, Canada. The power outage began just after 4 PM and brought traffic and public transportation to a standstill, leaving many commuters stranded. Power was not fully restored until August 16.

My girlfriend and I had planned out end of summer splurge dinner.  We lost power, and I called the restaurant to see if they did too.  No connection, so I decided to drive.  I made it a block,.and all of the lights were out, so I circled back.  Took me nearly 2 hours to make a 1.5 mile trip in Ann Arbor.  We wound up playing monopoly with my parents by generator light.  Weird that things didn't work out with her 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 16, 2022, 08:47:04 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First Transatlantic Telegraph Sent (1858)
After the introduction of the working telegraph in 1839, the idea that countries and continents could be connected by a communications network became an exciting possibility. A working telegraph could transmit in mere minutes messages that had once taken weeks to deliver by sea. England and France were linked by submarine cable in 1850, but it took several attempts over the next eight years before a lasting connection could be maintained across the Atlantic.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 17, 2022, 07:39:24 AM
Europe in 1840:

(https://i.imgur.com/FSqAyid.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 17, 2022, 08:19:55 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/DHuqaKF.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: ELA on August 17, 2022, 02:06:34 PM
[img width=406.992 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/DHuqaKF.png[/img]
Still only the 2nd worst thing to happen to the Big XII
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 18, 2022, 03:25:44 PM
https://youtu.be/ya8A3Q23cQI?t=439

Hitler's private Train was code named Amerika but later was renamed Brandenburg
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2022, 09:36:19 AM
Werner Klemperer, born on March 22, 1920 in Cologne Germany, was the son of renowned conductor Otto Klemperer and Johanna Geisler. In 1933 Otto emigrated to the United States to become the music director of the Los Angeles Philharmonic. Werner and the rest of his family joined him in 1935 as aggressions were forming toward the Jewish citizens of Germany.
According to The Together We Served Database: "Werner Klemperer began acting in high school and enrolled in acting courses at the Pasadena Playhouse before joining the United States Army to serve in World War II. While stationed in Hawaii, he joined the Army's Special Services Unit, serving as a Recreation Specialist spending the next two years touring the Pacific entertaining the troops. At the end of the war, Werner was honorably discharged with the rank of Technician Fifth Grade."
After the war he returned to the Pasadena Playhouse to pursue a career in acting. After several appearances on Broadway, Werner first appeared on screen in the Alfred Hitchcock film "The Wrong Man." His first big break would come in the form of Stanley Kramer's "Judgment at Nuremberg" in 1961. Klemperer went on to star in the title role in the film "Operation Eichmann" in the same year. Additional film credits include ''The Goddess'' (1958), ''Flight to Hong Kong'' (1956) and ''Ship of Fools'' (1965). On the Broadway stage he appeared in such plays as the revival of ''Cabaret,'' in which he was nominated for a Tony in 1988.
From 1965 to 1971 Werner Klemperer co-starred in the CBS production "Hogan's Heroes" as Colonel Wilhelm Klink. Klemperer was nominated for Emmys for each of the six years he appeared on the show, and won twice, in 1968 and 1969, in the category of best supporting actor.
"Klemperer would later explain his decision to accept the role when it was first offered to him, by saying he presented the producers with a single condition: "If they ever wrote a segment whereby Colonel Klink would come out the hero, I would leave the show," a threat he never had to carry out." (Los Angeles Times)
Werner Klemperer passed away on December 6, 2000 at the age of 80 years old. Lest We Forget.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2022, 01:13:56 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/IjIjaak.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2022, 03:47:19 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/5vpNeDe.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 19, 2022, 05:16:25 PM
this was the case the Movie Death Hunt was based on .With Charles Bronson,Lee Marvin,Carl Weathers & Andrew Stevens. Unbelievably tough dude

https://youtu.be/XBZqxzc3PZw (https://youtu.be/XBZqxzc3PZw)

https://youtu.be/Vy6n3A7eW2k

(https://youtu.be/Vy6n3A7eW2k)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 20, 2022, 06:32:01 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

US Retaliates against Al Qaeda for Embassy Bombings (1998)
On August 7, 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed, killing more than 200 people. Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda were believed to be responsible for the attacks. The US retaliated 13 days later with Operation Infinite Reach, a cruise missile strike that targeted terrorist camps in Afghanistan and a pharmaceutical factory in Sudan. Though the pharmaceutical plant was allegedly helping bin Laden build chemical weapons, the US was widely criticized for this attack.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 21, 2022, 12:48:51 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Toxic Gas Erupts from Lake Nyos (1986)
Lake Nyos is a deep lake located in the crater of an inactive volcano in Cameroon. A pocket of magma beneath the lake leaks carbon dioxide (CO2) into the water. In 1986, possibly as the result of a landslide, Lake Nyos suddenly emitted about 1.6 million tons of CO2. Denser than air, the CO2 cloud "hugged" the ground and descended down nearby valleys, suffocating approximately 1,700 people within 16 miles (25 km) of the lake.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 21, 2022, 01:04:13 PM
Are they sure it wasn't god passing judgement for their sins?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 21, 2022, 01:12:13 PM
I recall that tragedy and was somewhat amazed enough CO2 could be stabilized in a lake and could be released to kill that many people.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 21, 2022, 01:29:47 PM
Are they sure it wasn't god passing judgement for their sins?
That's silly,in that case it would have been Gainesville
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 21, 2022, 02:27:39 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/aePZUpi.png)

Stadium cost $17 Million to build and $66 million to implode and cart off.  This looks to be in 1965.  I was last there in 1996 to see a baseball game in the Olympics.  It was scorching hot that day.  The general area today has the old Turner Field now being used for football by Georgia State and a burgeoning development of condos and apts and whatever else.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 21, 2022, 03:54:10 PM
I'm guessing the 1.6 million tons is a guess
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 22, 2022, 10:27:48 AM
- Four and a half months after the Battle of Gettysburg, President Abraham Lincoln joined a large crowd to dedicate the Soldiers’ National Cemetery on the afternoon of November 19, 1863. After the delivering of prayers and the playing of songs, the crowd listened intently to a nearly two-hour speech by the orator, Edward Everett. Then, following a hymn, “The Consecration Chant,” President Lincoln stepped forward to deliver the Dedicatory Remarks. In just a matter of 271 words, Lincoln said everything that a broken nation needed to hear. He began by invoking the historical memory of the United States, addressed the conflict, then turned his focus to the present, and in many ways to us. For a speech that Lincoln predicted few would “long remember,” the Gettysburg Address should speak to us all today.
“Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth upon this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.
But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate—we can not consecrate—we can not hallow—this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.”


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/299905371_478751740925020_4901062582922957530_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=d5OO1OqEINIAX_uywcu&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9kpGjOjihOCMJUjdpngT-F1zTZaZpTmuDVWPwo2Krp8Q&oe=6307DC04)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 22, 2022, 11:19:52 AM
The photograph is of a horse that was once named one of the 100 all time American heroes by Life Magazine.
Staff Sergeant Reckless (c. 1948 – May 13, 1968), was a decorated war horse who held official rank in the United States military.
For her exemplary service to the Marine Corps, Reckless was awarded two Purple Hearts (for the wounds received during the Battle of Vegas), a Marine Corps Good Conduct Medal, a Presidential Unit Citation with bronze star, the National Defense Service Medal, a Korean Service Medal, the United Nations Korea Medal, a Navy Unit Commendation, and a Republic of Korea Presidential Unit Citation.
She was officially promoted to Staff Sergeant in 1959 by the Commandant of the Marine Corps.
An American Marine gun crew during the Korean War bought the Mongolian bred mare with their own money and trained her to carry shells for the recoilless rifle they called ‘Reckless’.
They also named the mare ‘Reckless’, and she became their mascot and an indispensable member of their gun crew. Reckless often, under heavy fire, made countless trips delivering ammunition from the supply point to the gun. She would often do this alone.
The photograph on this post is of Reckless beside a 75mm recoilless rifle during the Korean War.
I have also read that Reckless completed 51 solo trips in a single day during the Battle for Outpost Vegas in 1953. The battle raged for 5 days and it is estimated that there were over 1,000 American casualties and twice that number of Chinese during the battle. It is regarded as one of the bloodiest battles in Marine Corps history.
Reckless was also used to evacuate the wounded and was injured twice.
In recognition of her incredible war service, she was presented with a special citation for bravery by the Marines and promoted to Sergeant.
The Marines personally payed for her travel to the United States, where she enjoyed a well-earned retirement pastured at Camp Pendleton.
Reckless died in 1968. There are books about Sergeant Reckless.


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/299428359_603138538080338_3461264018400709284_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s640x640&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=acdi7Yq8F_MAX_U9Ncb&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT-ec8caziVw5gglUf4kFtYSB3wrY3koJFHmRVYk63XfPA&oe=63087AA7)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 22, 2022, 05:43:31 PM


On this date in 1974, "The Longest Yard" premiered in New York City.
Producer Albert S. Ruddy wrote the story in the late 1960s. He got Tracy Keenan Wynn, who had written a 1972 TV movie about life in prison, "The Glass House," to write a script. Finance was raised through Paramount, who released Ruddy's "The Godfather" (1972). 
Director Robert Aldrich says he took the third act of the film from "Body and Soul" (1947) a film on which Aldrich had worked as assistant director. He says this consisted of his character falling from grace and trying to redeem himself. He later did this on "All the Marbles" (1981).
A number of the actors had previously played professional football. Mike Henry played for the Pittsburgh Steelers and the Los Angeles Rams. Joy Kapp played quarterback for the Minnesota Vikings and in the Canadian Football League (1959-1966). Ray Nitschke was a middle linebacker for the Green Bay Packers who was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 1978, four years after release, and Pervis Atkins played for the Los Angeles Rams, the Washington Redskins and the Oakland Raiders. Also appearing as prisoners are Ernie Wheelwright, who played with the New York Giants, Atlanta Falcons and the New Orleans Saints, and Ray Ogden, who played with the St. Louis Cardinals, the New Orleans Saints, the Atlanta Falcons and the Chicago Bears. Sonny Sixkiller was a collegiate star as a quarterback for the University of Washington Huskies from 1970-1972, and briefly played pro in the defunct World Football League. Star Burt Reynolds himself had played college football for Florida State University before injuries curtailed his career. 
The film was shot on location at Georgia State Prison in Reidsville, Georgia. The production had the cooperation of then-Governor Jimmy Carter. Filming had to be delayed from time to time due to prison uprisings. There is now a museum that can be visited by appointment about the film and capital punishment in Georgia located in the prison's former Death Row.
According to Reynolds, Aldrich knew comedy was "not his strong suit" so they would do a take as written then he would ask for a "schtick take" where Reynolds could "clown around.".Reynolds said the completed film used the schtick scenes about "65% of the time."
Of Reynolds, Aldrich said "on occasion he's a much better actor than he's given credit for. Not always: sometimes he acts like a caricature of himself. I thought he was very good in 'Longest Yard.'"
Reynolds appeared in the 2005 remake. (Wikipedia)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 22, 2022, 06:42:17 PM
In an attempt to make the purchase price more palatable to consumers, GM introduced the 1954 Corvette to the public as a base model that could be tailored to the needs and personal wants of consumers worldwide. One such option was the transmission: Although the two speed Powerglide transmission was listed as a $178 option, no other transmissions were available for the 1954 Corvette, making the “optional” transmission a necessity if you wanted an operational car.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 22, 2022, 06:54:53 PM
brilliant!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 23, 2022, 01:54:45 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/64GpquN.png)

During World War II, fighter planes would come back from battle with bullet holes. The Allies initially sought to strengthen the most commonly damaged parts of the planes to increase combat survivability. A mathematician, Abraham Wald, pointed out that perhaps the reason certain areas of the planes weren’t covered in bullet holes was that planes that were shot in certain critical areas did not return. This insight led to the armor being reinforced on the parts of returning planes where there were no bullet holes. This wisdom was also beneficially applied to the Skyraider during the Korean War. This shows that the reasons why we are missing certain data may be more meaningful than the available data, itself. In questions of aircraft design, don’t only listen to what the evidence says, listen also to what is not being said.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 23, 2022, 02:59:17 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/64GpquN.png)

During World War II, fighter planes would come back from battle with bullet holes. The Allies initially sought to strengthen the most commonly damaged parts of the planes to increase combat survivability. A mathematician, Abraham Wald, pointed out that perhaps the reason certain areas of the planes weren’t covered in bullet holes was that planes that were shot in certain critical areas did not return. This insight led to the armor being reinforced on the parts of returning planes where there were no bullet holes. This wisdom was also beneficially applied to the Skyraider during the Korean War. This shows that the reasons why we are missing certain data may be more meaningful than the available data, itself. In questions of aircraft design, don’t only listen to what the evidence says, listen also to what is not being said.
I've read that story before and always found it fascinating. The initial intuitive response was exactly wrong.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 23, 2022, 06:59:25 PM
Ya watched a youtube video on it,initially you can see why one was inclined to believe that.However upon further review the light bulb went off there were no examples of the other patterns of shot as they took the plane down and couldn't be counted
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2022, 12:20:09 PM
Confederate Major General Martin Luther Smith.
Smith was one of the greatest engineers of the Civil War and one of the few Yankees that served in the Confederacy.
Smith was born in Danby, New York. He graduated 16th in his class at West Point. Some of his classmates were fellow Civil War generals James Longstreet, Abner Doubleday and D.H. Hill. His first assignment in the pre-war US Army saw him stationed in Florida. In 1846 he married a Southern Belle from Athens, Georgia and started a family with her.
He served as an engineer during the Mexican–American War, and was brevetted for his performance in mapping the valley of Mexico City prior to Winfield Scott's assaults.
He had attained the rank of captain before he resigned his commission on April 1, 1861 and joined the Confederate States Army. He constructed the imposing defenses of Vicksburg and was captured there when the city was surrendered to a Union army under US Grant in the summer of 1863.
Smith was paroled and was the assigned to the Army of Northern Virginia where he quickly became one of Robert E. Lee’s favorite lieutenants. Lee sough Smith’s advice and expertise throughtout the Overland Campaign of 1864. Smith was responsible for the strong rebel defenses in The Wilderness, Spotsylvania Court House.
Smith’s finest hour, however, was at the North Anna River in late May 1864. After Lee has incorrectly guessed Grant’s operation moves and put his army in a difficult spot it was Smith who suggested creating the V shaped defensive line so that the rebels could use interior lines to reinforce any threatened spots. The tip of the V met the North Anna river so that the two Union wings could not support each other directly.
In July Smith was again transferred west to the Army of the Tennessee under John Bell Hood where he helped strengthen various defensive positions.
Smith survived the war but died of natural causes in 1866 at Rome, Georgia. He was buried in Athens at just 46 years old.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2022, 04:18:49 PM
Army Nurse Lt. Mildred Manning, who would become the last surviving member of the Angels of Bataan, gets a heroes welcome as she arrives home in Georgia after being a Japanese prisoner of war for several years in the Philippines.

The Angels were the members of the United States Army Nurse Corps and the United States Navy Nurse Corps who were stationed in the Philippines at the outset of the Pacific War and served during the Battle of the Philippines in 1941–1942. When Bataan and Corregidor fell, 11 navy nurses, 66 army nurses, and 1 nurse-anesthetist were captured and imprisoned in and around Manila. They continued to serve as a nursing unit while they were prisoners of war. After years of hardship, they were finally liberated in February 1945. Lt. Manning would pass away in 2013 at the age of 98….living a well deserved rich, full life. 

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/297988802_501130348683983_1632740569098521531_n.jpg?stp=cp1_dst-jpg_s640x640&_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=3JRt8Cce05MAX8O5Vee&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9xab2CqDxPVQbs4ugL-9u0BSYNLC76HL-VHdTQsilfyg&oe=630AA869)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2022, 09:56:06 AM
Many academic traditions, including the distinction between graduates and undergraduates began at the Islamic university Al-Azhar (“the resplendent”) University in Cairo. The university was founded in the 10th century and is renowned for its philosophical and theoretical scholarship.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 25, 2022, 01:34:33 PM
Today in 1954, the Lockheed C-130 Hercules made its first flight at Burbank, California. Designed as a tactical troop transport, it has evolved into many roles and variants. It remains in production and serves with many air forces throughout the world. It will remain a steady platform for many years to come.

(https://i.imgur.com/Q8WLNDt.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 27, 2022, 09:44:50 AM
Historically, guinea pigs have played a large role in the medicine in South America. Even in the Andes today (where Western medicine is either unavailable or distrusted), the guinea pig is believed to cure a number of illness, including arthritis and jaundice. Treatments include rubbing the guinea pig on the affected areas.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2022, 10:48:18 AM
I wouldn't like to be a guinea pig for those treatments....
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 27, 2022, 10:57:40 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Kellogg-Briand Pact Signed (1928)
The Kellogg-Briand Pact was an agreement between the US and France to renounce war and seek settlement of disputes by peaceful means. It took its name from US Secretary of State Frank B. Kellogg and French foreign minister Aristide Briand. Sixty other nations ultimately ratified the pact, but it made no provision for measures against aggressors and proved ineffective, especially given the practice of waging undeclared wars in the 1930s.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2022, 11:02:26 AM
"They" should make war illegal, or tax it, or something ...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2022, 11:29:52 AM
Historically, guinea pigs have played a large role in the medicine in South America. Even in the Andes today (where Western medicine is either unavailable or distrusted), the guinea pig is believed to cure a number of illness, including arthritis and jaundice. Treatments include rubbing the guinea pig on the affected areas.
I thought they were a large role in cuisine down there.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 27, 2022, 11:31:59 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/64GpquN.png)

During World War II, fighter planes would come back from battle with bullet holes. The Allies initially sought to strengthen the most commonly damaged parts of the planes to increase combat survivability. A mathematician, Abraham Wald, pointed out that perhaps the reason certain areas of the planes weren’t covered in bullet holes was that planes that were shot in certain critical areas did not return. This insight led to the armor being reinforced on the parts of returning planes where there were no bullet holes. This wisdom was also beneficially applied to the Skyraider during the Korean War. This shows that the reasons why we are missing certain data may be more meaningful than the available data, itself. In questions of aircraft design, don’t only listen to what the evidence says, listen also to what is not being said.


I feel like this is where having a smartass around helps.  That useful tidbit would be noted, perhaps in a joking way, by a smartass just making a comment.  
The decision-maker, if listening, would say....."actually, you're right!"
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2022, 11:43:57 AM
There are of course other plausible reasons for locations of bullet holes in a fighter or bomber.



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2022, 11:45:19 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/qhCWM7h.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 27, 2022, 11:50:32 AM
I feel like this is where having a smartass around helps.  That useful tidbit would be noted, perhaps in a joking way, by a smartass just making a comment. 
The decision-maker, if listening, would say....."actually, you're right!"
Getting a plug in for the home team - cool 👍 ;D
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2022, 10:06:56 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
"I Have a Dream," Says Martin Luther King, Jr. (1963)
The 1963 March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom was one of the largest civil-rights demonstrations ever conducted in the US. More than 200,000 people heard civil-rights leader Martin Luther King, Jr., deliver his "I Have a Dream" speech, which is considered one of the finest speeches in the history of American oratory. However, his prepared text did not mention a dream—King composed that section on the spot, likely at the urging of gospel singer Mahalia Jackson.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2022, 11:19:47 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/iocQXXn.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2022, 11:22:18 AM
I read somewhere an analysis of how an army with longbows would do facing a Napoleonic era army with muskets.  It was bad for the musket side, but the longbow mastery requires much longer training than musket mastery.

Napoleon relied largely on conscripts with smoothbores marching in large blocks.  The British were often in a defensive posture in line and could fire about every 15 seconds.  They'd get close, maybe 60 yards, and aiming was not at issue, reloading quickly was.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 28, 2022, 12:35:31 PM
Problem was many times their hot debris in the barrel so prolly less than that. Forget if it was Comanches or Apaches in the 1850s I believe that  attacked a group of guys with Muskets. In close they could easily get off twice as many shots,knocking their arrows much quicker than ramming home lead balls.Think it was  Texas Rangers who arrived in numbers driving off the war party
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2022, 12:40:09 PM
Yeah, and they were using light bows with limited range.  A longbow is different.

The notion was a British line of infantry had to close inside 100 yards and by then a longbow equipped line would have torn them up starting at 250 yards.  You could loose 6-10 arrows per minute if you didn't run out.  Each arrow would have maybe a 5% chance of a hit, going up as they closed.  Math.

The other factor would be cannon.  Napoelonic tactics are interesting to study, I think.  Often it was just bludgeoning and who could stand their ground.  Napoleon was almost never on defense.  Wellington often fought a defensive battle and then struck when he thought it favorable.  His troops were of a very high value in general.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 29, 2022, 08:02:35 AM
When a Soviet submarine captain commanded navy officer Vasili Alexandrovich Arkhipov to authorize the use of nuclear torpedos against the United States Navy, Arkhipov refused. He is widely credited with nothing less than saving the world.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 29, 2022, 08:07:14 AM
"They" should make war illegal, or tax it, or something ...
Taxing it would do,because it never stops and would drive the so called Hawks - batty,like Wuhan
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 29, 2022, 08:09:38 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Hurricane Katrina Devastates US Gulf Coast (2005)
Hurricane Katrina made landfall along the Central Gulf Coast as a Category 3 storm. Its storm surge breached the levee system that protected New Orleans from Lake Pontchartrain and the Mississippi River, flooding the city. Lack of food and water in the aftermath fueled criticism of the US government's recovery efforts, and many former residents established new lives elsewhere. Katrina caused an estimated $81 billion in damages.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2022, 08:10:47 AM
August 26 and still a quiet hurricane season, thus far.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 29, 2022, 03:32:47 PM
Fascinating & worth the time if you like WWII Cloak and Dagger Operations

https://youtu.be/9o3mlVktTIQ
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 29, 2022, 03:44:50 PM
50 minutes?!?!?!?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 29, 2022, 04:36:10 PM
Watch it when you're not drinking or beating the ground with sticks...err I mean golfing
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 30, 2022, 09:08:31 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Socialist Revolutionary Shoots Lenin (1918)
Kaplan was a Russian political revolutionary and a member of the Socialist Revolutionaries, a group known for its terrorist tactics. After the Bolshevik party disbanded the long-promised Constituent Assembly, Kaplan sought revenge on leader Vladimir Lenin and shot him three times as he exited a Moscow factory. Kaplan confessed to the shooting and was executed on September 3.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2022, 11:23:37 AM
On This Day in History > August 26, 1794:
President George Washington decides to subdue Whiskey Rebellion
"President George Washington writes to Henry “Light Horse Harry” Lee, Virginia’s governor and a former general, regarding the Whiskey Rebellion, an insurrection that was the first great test of Washington’s authority as president of the United States. In the letter, Washington declared that he had no choice but to act to subdue the “insurgents,” fearing they would otherwise “shake the government to its foundation.”
The Whiskey Rebellion of August 1794 was the product of growing discontentment, which had been expressed as early as 1791, of grain farmers who resented a federal tax imposed on their distillery products. As growers threatened federal tax collectors with physical harm, Washington at first tried to prosecute the resistors in the court system. In 1794, however, 6,000 men angry at the tax gathered at a field near Pittsburgh and, with fake guillotines at the ready, challenged Washington and the federal government to disperse them.
In response, Washington issued a public proclamation on August 7, giving his former Revolutionary War aide-de-camp and current Secretary of the Treasury Alexander Hamilton the power to organize troops to put down the rebellion. In his letter to Lee on August 26, Washington noted that the general populace considered the insurrection with “universal indignation and abhorrence” and said that he otherwise would not have authorized such a heavy-handed response. Washington knew that the nation, having only recently violently overthrown the tyrannical English king, was in a delicate state and did not want to appear as an equally despotic president. He waited to see if the insurgents would back down; they did not.
According to biographer Joseph Ellis in His Excellency, George Washington, the aging president mounted his horse on September 30 to lead a force of 13,000–larger than any American army amassed in one place during the Revolution–to quell the uprising. (The act of mounting his war horse was brief and largely symbolic; Washington made most of the journey by carriage.) Lee joined Washington and the army on its march to Pennsylvania. This was the first and only time a sitting American president ever led troops into battle. Washington abandoned the procession early, however, leaving Alexander Hamilton, the true mastermind of the military response to the insurrection, in charge of the final approach to Pittsburgh.
The rioters dispersed in the presence of the federal troops and bloodshed was averted. In the aftermath, Washington reported to Congress that although he had agonized about the decision and intended to uphold the constitutional right to protest unfair tax laws, the insurrection had to be put down or the survival of the young democracy would have been in peril. Congress applauded his decision, but Washington’s former Secretary of State Thomas Jefferson, who was in temporary retirement at his Monticello estate, viewed Washington’s decision to call out troops against fellow citizens as a dire threat to republican ideals and an abuse of presidential power. The uprising highlighted a growing division in early American politics which, by the end of Washington’s second term, pitted rural, agricultural interests, led by future Presidents Jefferson and James Madison, against the pro-industrial urban interests, represented by Hamilton and John Adams, and gave rise to the two-party political system."

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 30, 2022, 11:27:39 AM
and here we are
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2022, 01:46:29 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/QfjVhnN.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 30, 2022, 02:18:39 PM
they don't look broken
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2022, 05:36:03 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/lGsdYvx.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 30, 2022, 09:41:09 PM
I consider Andre the Giant in a group with Bo Jackson.....over time, it will be easy for them to fade-to-black, but I hope to god people don't let that happen.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 30, 2022, 10:01:23 PM
Andre the Giant has some legendary drinking stories
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on August 30, 2022, 10:58:46 PM
A regular, 12 oz can...
(https://i.imgur.com/tQ4ie65.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 31, 2022, 03:11:24 PM
On August 31, 1864, during the Civil War, the Battle of Jonesboro was fought in Clayton County, Georgia, sealing the fate of Atlanta and leaving it firmly in Union hands. The final confrontation of the Atlanta Campaign, Jonesboro was the result of General William Tecumseh Sherman’s attempt to cut Confederate supply lines south of the city.
Knowing that if his lines of supply were cut, he would be forced to abandon Atlanta, Confederate General John Bell Hood quickly moved to counter Sherman’s move, engaging him near Jonesboro, Georgia. On the 31st, Confederates smashed into federal troops, who, knowing of the Confederates’ imminent arrival, had had time to prepare defensive positions. Under Patrick Cleburne and Stephen D. Lee, the Confederates were able to push back some of the Union men, but the North’s superior numbers eventually forced them to give up the fight.
That night Hood ordered his men to withdraw back to their defenses in Atlanta, and the next morning Union forces launched an all-out assault. After hours of brutal fighting, including hand-to-hand combat, the Confederate lines were broken by the Union attackers. Sherman’s men poured through the gap and Hood was forced to order an evacuation of Atlanta. By the next day, September 2, Atlanta, the city once the supply and railway hub of the Confederacy, was completely under Union control.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 31, 2022, 04:28:43 PM
On the bright side they've done a lot with the place since Uncle Billy's last visit
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 31, 2022, 06:16:56 PM
Bill kind of cleared off a lot of old dead wood, as it were.  His was a remarkable, if not perfect, campaign.  We have old historical markers all around us, they pretty much are boring.  One motto of this place if "The City to Busy to Hate", which more than anything is an homage to its business leaders who above anything else wanted business.  And they are getting it in spades, for now.  They usually overbuild just before ...

We walk around this area pretty often, we like watching the construction happening.  And this is maybe a tenth of it.

(https://i.imgur.com/CnCHoRw.jpg)



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 31, 2022, 07:49:06 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Rocky Marciano Dies in a Plane Crash (1969)
After failing to become a professional baseball player, Marciano took up boxing and became one of the greatest boxers of all time. Hard-punching and durable, he was the heavyweight champion from 1952 to 1956—and the only one to have retired without a defeat or draw in his professional career. He died in a plane crash in 1969, on the eve of his 46th birthday, while en route to Des Moines, Iowa, where a surprise birthday party awaited him.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 06:16:47 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/u6m3f84.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 07:39:54 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/WSIdCBb.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 07:40:41 AM
I find language, and its evolution, fascinating, how we name months, days, numbers, things ...

I learned last night that "jargon" is the same word in French and German.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 08:09:26 AM
The Boeing B-52 Stratofortress, a long-range strategic bomber, had its first flight in April 1956. Meanwhile, the new wave band The B-52's formed twenty years later in 1976. The music group will be finishing their farewell tour in November 2022. By contrast, after being upgraded between 2013 and 2015, the last B-52 bombers are expected to serve into the 2050s.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on September 01, 2022, 08:11:32 AM
Not necessarily weird, but historical nonetheless.  Yesterday they moved the battleship USS Texas from its home near the San Jacinto battleground since 1948, to a drydock in Galveston, where it will undergo $35 million in repairs to its hull and other places as necessary.  Four tugboats pulled the battleship the 40 miles, and it took all day to get there.

Texas is the last surviving Dreadnought class battleship, and it is also notable for having served in both WWI and WWII.

https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/battleship-texas-moving/285-c79603b2-241c-4a21-b3d0-2b65c4d18d8a


(https://i.imgur.com/1HL66cG.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 08:19:54 AM
The terminology is not clear cut of course, but I'd call it a "super Dreadnaught" class.  

Dreadnoughts and Super-Dreadnoughts | Naval Historical Foundation (navyhistory.org) (https://www.navyhistory.org/2022/05/dreadnoughts-and-super-dreadnoughts/)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on September 01, 2022, 08:35:00 AM
I visited it a couple of times as a kid, it was huge and amazing to an 8-year-old.  I watched a little bit of the livestream as they moved it yesterday, it was really crazy to see it moving again, after 70+ years of sitting stationary at San Jacinto.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 08:37:03 AM
The repairs cost something like 5x what the ship cost originally, without inflation adjustments.  I'm glad they saved it, hopefully.  I've been on the NC and Alabama.  The amount of steel is impressive.  We had to stop building the Kentucky in WW 2 because of a steel shortage.

And the carrier thing of course.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on September 01, 2022, 08:48:36 AM
I don't think the $35M will be enough, but it's all the state legislature is willing to give, and after that, they're no longer funding it.  There are some wealthy benefactors lined up potentially, to cover remaining costs, but for the long term it's going to have to become self-sustaining as a tourist site.  They still don't have a final destination picked out.  There's a lot of risk remaining.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 08:50:20 AM
The number of battles in WW 2 between battleships is suprisingly small.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on September 01, 2022, 09:11:19 AM
The number of battles in WW 2 between battleships is suprisingly small.
Yeah seems like they were more often used for standoff bombardment of onshore targets.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 09:36:28 AM
Way more often, and as antiaircraft platforms.  They were studded with dual purpose 5 inch batteries, and other 40 and 20 mm.

Radar proximity shells greatly enhanced their capabilities.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on September 01, 2022, 10:00:53 AM
Way more often, and as antiaircraft platforms.  They were studded with dual purpose 5 inch batteries, and other 40 and 20 mm.

Radar proximity shells greatly enhanced their capabilities.

Somewhere I saw a tactical sheet for the specs and armament of the USS Texas for WW1, and WW2.  In WW1 it had a lot of smaller secondary armament, but for WW2 they'd removed a lot of that and replaced it with AA weaponry.  It was interesting to see how the times changed, and the battleship's armament had to change with them.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 01, 2022, 10:49:08 AM
Somewhere I saw a tactical sheet for the specs and armament of the USS Texas for WW1, and WW2.  In WW1 it had a lot of smaller secondary armament, but for WW2 they'd removed a lot of that and replaced it with AA weaponry.  It was interesting to see how the times changed, and the battleship's armament had to change with them.
The American DP 5" was a great weapon. Some navies had separate guns for AA and for floating/land based targets. The 5" gun was "Dual Purpose" which effectively meant that American ships had a lot more of either AA or secondary armament than ships equipped with both an AA gun and a separate secondary armament. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 01, 2022, 11:04:14 AM
Radar proximity shells greatly enhanced their capabilities.
This is easily the most under-appreciated technological advance of WWII. I don't have the figures off the top of my head but the Navy calculated the # of shells fired per aircraft downed and the introduction of the VT Fuse* caused this # to drop by something like 90%.

*VT Fuse was the American code name for the Radar Proximity Fuse. VT stood for "variable time" but that was intentionally misleading. They weren't timed at all other than that they armed a split second after leaving the barrel such that they wouldn't explode before clearing the firing area. After that they worked via a miniaturized radar to explode when close to a target.

The VT Fuse was also used against Infantry formations on land. The most effective way to take those out is to have your shell explode just above the ground such that shrapnel scatters and creates the maximum "kill zone". If your shell explodes too high the shrapnel is too scattered and the blast too diluted. Too low and the ground absorbs most of the shrapnel and blast thus reducing kills.

Prior to the proximity fuse both of these situations were usually handled using fuses that worked based on elevation. When shooting at an aircraft the gunners would guess the plane's elevation then also guess whether it was climbing, decending, or level, then guesstimate the elevation at which the shell would meet the plane and hope for the best.

Against targets on land the gunners guessed (or sometimes knew) the elevation then set to altimeter to explode the shell just above that.

The proximity fuse eliminated all that guesswork and was vastly more precise.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 11:14:34 AM
Back in the day, a British officer named "Shrapnel" invented a shell designed to explode in the air and rain "shrapnell" down on the enemy.  But you had to cut the fuze to the correct length for it to work properly.  This was used a lot in the UC Uncivil War.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 01, 2022, 11:16:03 AM
The American DP 5" was a great weapon. Some navies had separate guns for AA and for floating/land based targets. The 5" gun was "Dual Purpose" which effectively meant that American ships had a lot more of either AA or secondary armament than ships equipped with both an AA gun and a separate secondary armament.
In theory separate guns had the advantage of being specifically designed for their exact role and in a situation where you needed to engage both ships and aircraft simultaneously separate guns would be superior.

In practice ships rarely had to engage ships and aircraft simultaneously and the single biggest factor against either was simply how much weight of shell you could put up. The advantage of the DP guns was that you could fire everything against anything.

Another advantage of the American 5" gun was that it was about the limit of what Sailors could manually load. The Japanese used a 6" gun but the larger shell size and weight were more than made up for by the slower cyclic rate because Sailors couldn't manhandle the shells.

By mid-war an American flotilla could put up a terrifying amount of AA. It was so effective that the Japanese decision to switch to Kamakize tactics was a fairly rational decision. As a practical matter at that point, bombing an American ship WAS a suicide mission regardless of whether or not it was presented that way. The Japanese actually got more hits per airmen lost using kamakizes than they did using pilots who were supposed to return.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 11:25:51 AM
The 5" 38 caliber DP gun was also effectively against lesser armored ships, and was used with some effect at the "Battle of the Tin Can Sailors".  At one point they got under the ability of the Japanese main guns to depress and fired at the battleship/cruiser bridge areas.

Caliber has a different meaning for naval and tank guns.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 01, 2022, 11:27:34 AM
I don't think the $35M will be enough, but it's all the state legislature is willing to give, and after that, they're no longer funding it.  There are some wealthy benefactors lined up potentially, to cover remaining costs, but for the long term it's going to have to become self-sustaining as a tourist site.  They still don't have a final destination picked out.  There's a lot of risk remaining.
where's my ROI?


fortunately the government need not worry about such trivial matters
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 11:32:47 AM
In theory, there could be some ROI from such things in terms of promoting tourism.

It will depend on where it ends up of course.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 01, 2022, 11:35:49 AM
there certainly could be.  I'd like to see it calculated and published

for all Government spending
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 01, 2022, 11:38:38 AM
Way more often, and as antiaircraft platforms.  They were studded with dual purpose 5 inch batteries, and other 40 and 20 mm.
While I love the big BB's and I'm one of the few who appreciate the oddity that is the Alaska Class, their main disadvantage was that their cost didn't justify their construction relative to simply building more cruisers as AA platforms.  I just made this chart from WIKI:
(https://i.imgur.com/a033Txf.png)

Weight is a pretty good rough proxy for cost.  The ships are the Iowa Class Battleships, the Alaska Class Large Cruisers (arguably Battlecruisers but not according to the USN), Baltimore Class Heavy Cruisers, and Cleveland Class Light Cruisers.  The main armament is a different issue entirely but that wasn't used against aerial targets anyway*.  Simply for AA purposes, the above is what each ship carried during WWII.  

Note also that the range is longest/highest for the larger guns and shortest for the smaller guns so the most effective guns are the 5" while the 40MM and especially the 20MM are less effective particularly at defending another ship.  These, especially the 20MM are mostly close-in weapons for use against targets that got past the 5" and have probably already dropped their ordinance so the damage is already done.  

So for roughly the same cost you could build two Iowa's, three Alaska's, seven Baltimore's, or eight Cleveland's and here is the number of each weapon you'd get by doing that:
(https://i.imgur.com/kd8Sod1.png)
Strictly as AA platforms, the Iowa's and Alaska's are insanely inefficient choices.  The more numerous ships also have the advantage of being able to spread out their fire since there are more of them so they can be sent in different directions and while a hit on one of them will be more damaging it will only be damaging to THAT ship, the other seven Cleveland's or six Baltimore's will remain undamaged from a single hit.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 01, 2022, 11:50:07 AM
The 5" 38 caliber DP gun was also effectively against lesser armored ships, and was used with some effect at the "Battle of the Tin Can Sailors".  At one point they got under the ability of the Japanese main guns to depress and fired at the battleship/cruiser bridge areas.
If you haven't already read it, Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors is a great read about Taffy 3's suicidal charge against a massive flotilla of Japanese heavy units including the 18" gunned world's largest Battleship.

The bravery of those guys to go charging TOWARD an obviously vastly superior enemy is amazing. Their sacrifice, however, was not in vain. It helped to convince the Japanese that the ships they were facing HAD to be the Cruisers and Carriers of the main American fleet. Consequently, Admiral Kurita withdrew thinking that the complicated Japanese plan had failed.

In fact their plan had worked to perfection for once. The sacrifice of the remaining Japanese carriers as bait had drawn off Halsey and his fleet leaving Kurita facing nothing but Destroyers and Escort Carriers. Strategically he could and should have brushed them aside and proceeded to inflict grevious casualties on the Americans by sinking the unarmored transports and support ships that were just beyond Taffy 3.

Interestingly, two of the American Destroyers lost in that action have recently been discovered and they are the two deepest shipwrecks ever located.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 11:50:20 AM
Interesting.  I recall the USS Arkansas was outfitted only with 5" guns as a training platform.  Something like an Alaska without the 12" ers and more 5"ers ...

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 11:51:29 AM
I have the book about 5 feet from me in my office (along with a few others).

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 01, 2022, 11:57:01 AM
I have the book about 5 feet from me in my office (along with a few others).
Different battle, but I also highly recommend Shattered Sword. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 01, 2022, 01:01:07 PM
Our First Look At An AC-130J Ghostrider Gunship's New 105mm Gun


Photos from a recent event at Cannon Air Force Base, New Mexico, provide our first look at a U.S. Air Force AC-130J Ghostrider gunship equipped with an upgraded 105mm howitzer. This follows an announcement from the U.S. Navy earlier this year that it had delivered at least one prototype of a gun that is intended to replace the existing, aging M102 howitzers that have been used on various AC-130 gunship variants for decades now.

The new howitzer was seen installed on an Air Force AC-130J belonging to the 17th Special Operations Squadron during an "honorary commander flight event" for prominent members of the community from the nearby city of Clovis, New Mexico, held on August 24, 2022. Pictures from the ground tour and flight demonstration show these 'honorary commanders' standing next to the rear rear-left side of the aircraft’s fuselage, as well as inside, with the new gun clearly visible.

City of Clovis honorary commanders receive a tour and safety brief on a U.S. Air Force 17th Special Operations Squadron AC-130J Ghostrider gunship during an honorary commander flight event on Aug. 24, 2022, at Cannon Air Force base, New Mexico. The flight enabled community civic leaders and business owners a first-hand understanding about how 17 SOS Airmen specialize in their jobs and why regular combat proficiency training benefits Air Force special operations around the globe. (U.S. Air Force photo by Staff Sgt. Peter Reft) (This photo has been manipulated for operational security)

City of Clovis 'honorary commanders' receive a tour and safety brief on a U.S. Air Force 17th Special Operations Squadron AC-130J Ghostrider gunship during an honorary commander flight event on Aug. 24, 2022, at Cannon Air Force Base, New Mexico. The new 105mm howitzer is seen sticking out of the rear left side of the fuselage. USAF

It remains unclear how much, if anything, the Navy's 105mm howitzer shares with the original M102. The Naval Surface Warfare Center Dahlgren Division previously described the weapon as being "upgraded," rather than entirely new. The replacement design has also been referred to generically as a Gun Aircraft Unit (GAU), but its full designation is unknown.

(https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AA11kpYn.img?w=768&h=432&m=6)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 01, 2022, 02:01:19 PM
Good God, the engineering that went into figuring out how to absorb the recoil from that large of a cannon without weakening the airframe had to be incredible. 

On top of that, the gun appears to be mounted transversely and in a turret capable of rotation which means they have to absorb recoil in different directions relative to the airframe. That is a lot tougher than something like the cannon on the A10 because the A10's cannon is both straight on (right through the nose) and fixed. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 01, 2022, 02:04:45 PM
the motivation to kill people is strong
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 01, 2022, 02:18:50 PM
the motivation to kill people is strong
I would suggest that the motivation to support special operations troops is strong. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on September 01, 2022, 03:13:01 PM
Battleship Texas now lifted up for dry docking.

(https://i.imgur.com/qkkA9no.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 01, 2022, 03:53:33 PM
Battleship Texas now lifted up for dry docking.
[img width=273.429 height=450]https://i.imgur.com/qkkA9no.png[/img]
I've been following this saga for a while via the USS New Jersey's YouTube page. I hope they can keep the Texas available as a museum.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 01, 2022, 04:01:34 PM
I've been on the NC and Alabama.
Have you visited any of the Iowa's?

I randomly ran into @Roaddawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=68) on the New Jersey before Ohio State's first game at Rutgers. Unbeknownst to each other we both had the same plan to see the Battleship on our way to the game. It is in New Jersey, across the river from Philly.

Iowa is in LA so maybe  Roaddawg and I can see it when Ohio State plays a B1G game at the RoseBowl or Coliseum in a few years.

Missouri is in Hawaii, overlooking the Arizona which is some pretty strong symbolism. 

Wisconsin is in Norfolk, VA.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 04:16:46 PM
I've seen the Missouri, but we didn't board it.  From afar it looks like a North Carolina or South Dakota class of course, nose on it looks thinner (but isn't).  The Iowa class were excellent ships of course, fast, reasonably well armored, and with the newer 16" 50 caliber main guns that outranged those of the two earlier classes.

I've done the Arizona twice.

The Alaska's were fine ships also, good seakeeping qualities, just no obvious mission.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 01, 2022, 04:43:54 PM
The Alaska's were fine ships also, good seakeeping qualities, just no obvious mission.
Well they had a mission when they were designed and I think they'd have been great at it but by the time they were built there weren't any enemy cruisers left to kill so they ended up being  ludicrously expensive carrier escorts. The saying was that they had the capabilities of a Cruiser for the size and cost of a Battleship. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2022, 04:44:21 PM
On the afternoon of August 31, 1983, Korea Airlines flight 007 departed Anchorage, Alaska, where it had stopped to refuel, bound for Seoul. There were 269 passengers and crew aboard the Boeing 747, from 16 countries. One of the 62 American citizens on the flight was Georgia Congressman Larry McDonald. Twenty-two of the passengers were children under the age of 12.
Shortly after takeoff the flight crew turned on the aircraft’s autopilot system. Either because of a mechanical malfunction or because of pilot error, the autopilot system was engaged in the incorrect mode, allowing the plane to drift north of its scheduled flight path. The navigational deviation went undetected by the flight crew and about three hours later, rather than flying 60 miles east of the Soviet Kamchatka Peninsula, the aircraft flew directly across it.
Cold War tensions were elevated at the time and when Soviet air defense radar detected an aircraft flying from the east and about to violate their airspace, they believed it to likely be a U.S. spy plane. The Soviets scrambled MIG fighters to intercept the plane, but by the time the fighters reached the scene it was back over international waters. The MIGs carried insufficient fuel to enable them to pursue the plane, a precaution Soviet authorities took to prevent pilots from being able to defect.
Seeing that the aircraft was on a course that would take it over Soviet Sakhalin Island, the general commanding the Soviet air defense in the area was determined not to permit it to escape again. Three SU-15 fighters were scrambled with orders to shoot down the intruding plane.
In the black of night visual identification of the target aircraft was difficult. But the lead SU-15 pilot Major Gennadiy Osipovich would later say that he saw the airplane’s blinking lights, and its two rows of windows lit from inside. Osipovich said he fired warning shots, but because he had no tracer shells, in the dark of the night his shots would not have been visible to the KAL flight crew (there is no evidence that they saw or heard them). Osipovich recognized his target as a Boeing civilian aircraft, but said he assumed it was being used for military purposes. His orders were to shoot the plane down. So, he fired two missiles, both of which exploded near the rear of the KAL aircraft, severely damaging it.
The explosions caused the aircraft cabin to decompress, but all passengers and crew are believed to have survived the blasts and to have been able to put on their oxygen masks, as the KAL pilots took control of the aircraft and fought to keep it in the air. Twelve minutes later, the plane crashed into the Sea of Japan. All 269 passengers and crew, who are believed to have been conscious the entire time, were killed instantly.
As soon as the horrible reality of the tragedy became evident, the Soviets began spinning a web of lies. They claimed the KAL aircraft was flying with its lights out (it wasn’t), that their fighters had fired tracer warning shots (they hadn’t), that their fighters had made radio contact with the KAL flight (no radio contact was attempted), and that their instructions had been disobeyed (no such instructions were given). Soviet divers recovered the airplane’s “black box” recorders, but for eight years the Soviets denied having them.
Meanwhile, of course, the incident enflamed already tense U.S-Soviet relations. U.S. President Ronald Reagan called the shootdown a “massacre,” and “inhuman brutality.” The Soviets responded that the KAL flight was in fact a CIA spy mission, and they refused to accept any blame or responsibility for the tragedy. Only after the fall of the Soviet Union did Russian authorities acknowledge their mistakes and the subsequent coverup.
The tragedy is now known to have been caused by a KAL navigational error and by the Soviet failure to identify the aircraft before shooting it down.
On September 1, 1983, thirty-nine years ago today, Korea Airlines Flight 007 was shot down by a Soviet fighter plane, killing all 269 passengers and crew.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 02, 2022, 05:28:46 PM

A video shared by the Ukrainian Air Force shows MiG-29 fighter jets firing HARM missiles.
The HARM missile was originally designed to destroy Soviet air defense radars.

Until recently, many considered the ability to fit the HARM missile to a MiG fighter technically impractical.
A new video that the Ukrainian Armed Forces released on Twitter earlier this week shows what many have suspected for weeks: the country has somehow managed to fit American missiles onto aging MiG fighter jets. The video depicts MiG-29 fighters firing AGM-88 missiles, also known as HARM, presumably at Russian radar targets. The setup, designed to erode Russia’s air defenses, was originally considered unlikely due to the difficulty in melding American and Ukrainian weapon systems.


“Ivan,” a Ukrainian Air Force pilot, made the video. A caption states that it was dedicated to the memory of Major Yevhen Lysenko, a fellow pilot who died in battle. There was no outward indication that the video was of anything particularly new, until sharp-eyed social media viewers realized that the missiles in the video launching off Ivan’s MiG-29 rails were actually American-made AGM-88 HARMs.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 02, 2022, 06:42:27 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Great Fire of London Begins (1666)
This massive fire was one of the biggest calamities in London's history. It destroyed 13,200 houses, 87 parish churches, St. Paul's Cathedral, and countless other buildings over four days, leaving an estimated 70,000 residents homeless in its wake. Though the death toll is traditionally thought to have been relatively low, recent research suggests it may have been higher, since the deaths of poor and middle-class people were not recorded at the time.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 03, 2022, 08:20:30 AM
Hooking up a HARM to a MiG-29 is a something requiring  a lot of connectivity.  From what I've read, the HARM has to pick up Russian radar (any radar) signals and confirm sending a signal to the cockpit it's in range and active and then must be released of course.  Modern radars are frequency agile, usually, they send out one freq and then send another, and they can of course detect enemy aircraft and the incoming missile (usually) and shut down or change freq, usually they shut down.  The HARM then remembers the location and comes in anyway, all it needs to do it damage the radar dish or matt or whatever.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 03, 2022, 09:15:49 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

World's Oldest Republic Is Born (301)
San Marino, surrounded by Italy, is the world's smallest republic and likely Europe's oldest existing state. According to tradition, its founder, Marino—a Christian stonecutter from Dalmatia—took refuge on Mount Titano in the Apennines to escape religious persecution. By the mid-5th century, a community had formed. Its relatively inaccessible location has helped it to maintain its independence with only a few brief interruptions.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 03, 2022, 09:45:13 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Ferdinand Porsche (1875)
Despite having little formal education in engineering. Porsche showed enormous natural aptitude. After working in the automotive industry for some time, the Austrian formed his own firm and began designing vehicles on commission—one of which resulted in the original Volkswagen Beetle. His success in making Hitler's vision for a "people's car" a reality led to further commissions, and Porsche went on to design various military vehicles for the Germans.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 03, 2022, 11:50:50 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/1lWMrN8.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 04, 2022, 09:10:33 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Little Rock School Crisis (1957)
On this day in 1957, Arkansas Governor Orville Faubus ordered the National Guard to prevent nine African-American students from entering Central High School in Little Rock. His actions defied the US Supreme Court's ruling in Brown v. Board of Education, which called for the racial desegregation of public schools. US President Dwight D. Eisenhower responded by sending federal troops to enforce integration and protect the students.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 05, 2022, 08:01:53 AM
U.S. Navy Battleship USS North Carolina Is Set To Make A Big Comeback (autodailyz.com) (https://military.autodailyz.com/u-s-navy-battleship-uss-north-carolina-is-set-to-make-a-big-comeback/?fbclid=IwAR02q6keuFk0K5NfRRpbTXEMZHBUMAATa5N1NZif__Np-zj7nkclhbMy56o)

Another one needing refurbishment ...

(https://i.imgur.com/N875e16.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 05, 2022, 08:02:57 AM
This was a two ship class followed by the South Dakota class which was marginally different, they look the same really.

The USS Washington did sink the IJN Kirishima in a night battle near Guadalcanal in 1942.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 05, 2022, 09:22:56 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Manson Family Member Attempts Assassination of US President (1975)
In 1967, depressed teen runaway Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme met cult leader Charles Manson, and she soon became a devoted member of his "Family." In the early 1970s, she was arrested in conjunction with several murders committed by the "Family" but avoided charges. Several years later she was arrested again, this time for aiming a gun at US President Gerald Ford at an appearance in California in what was believed to be an assassination attempt.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 06, 2022, 10:39:18 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Munich Massacre (1972)
During the 1972 Summer Olympics in Munich, Germany, Palestinian terrorists from the group Black September infiltrated the Olympic Village and took a number of members of the Israeli Olympic team hostage. Two of the athletes were killed during the initial assault, and nine others lost their lives in the course of a failed rescue attempt, during which a German police officer and five of the eight kidnappers were killed as well.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 06, 2022, 11:48:44 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Marquis de Lafayette (1757)
Lafayette was a French aristocrat most famous for his participation in the American and French revolutions. He fought with distinction in the American Revolution, becoming a close friend of George Washington. Upon returning to France, "the Hero of Two Worlds" turned his attentions to his home country, helping draft the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen and pushing for a constitutional monarchy.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 06, 2022, 09:22:20 PM
On this day in 1871, Nebraska opened its doors to all, including those of limited resources. 130 students enrolled for the 1871-72 academic year—20 pursuing university coursework, the rest in the preparatory school—and all classes were held in University Hall which was demolished in 1948.

📷: UNL Archives & Special Collections\\

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/305962216_450946383729972_9014219092162877557_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=LQoeyco8n_AAX_m_QrS&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT_fc-HsuYpTfp9MfjKa-ZLFpcj39Kdo1cURDmMwTKJKuw&oe=631CB239)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 07, 2022, 04:51:08 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/tSQg6pv.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on September 07, 2022, 06:35:56 AM
U.S. Navy Battleship USS North Carolina Is Set To Make A Big Comeback (autodailyz.com) (https://military.autodailyz.com/u-s-navy-battleship-uss-north-carolina-is-set-to-make-a-big-comeback/?fbclid=IwAR02q6keuFk0K5NfRRpbTXEMZHBUMAATa5N1NZif__Np-zj7nkclhbMy56o)

Another one needing refurbishment ...

(https://i.imgur.com/N875e16.jpg)
I was on that as a kid when we took and east coast vacation - it was moored in S.Carolina
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 07, 2022, 09:45:27 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

"Umbrella Assassin" Strikes (1978)
Georgi Markov began his career as a writer in his native Bulgaria. After defecting to the West in 1969, he continued his criticisms of the Bulgarian regime. On September 7, 1978, Markov was waiting at a London bus stop when he felt a sting on his leg and turned to see a man pick up an umbrella. Markov's death days later was attributed to the tiny, ricin-laced pellet that had been fired into his leg—likely from the umbrella. The "Umbrella Assassin" was never caught.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 08, 2022, 08:54:44 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First V-2 Rocket Hits London (1944)
Developed by Germany during World War II, the Vergeltungswaffe 2 (V-2) rocket was the world's first modern ballistic missile and the first known manmade object to enter outer space. Thousands were launched on Allied targets during the last year of the war, causing more than 9,000 deaths. One of the rocket's first targets was London, which was hit just days after Hitler declared his plans to start V-2 attacks.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 08, 2022, 11:45:24 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

First V-2 Rocket Hits London (1944)
Developed by Germany during World War II, the Vergeltungswaffe 2 (V-2) rocket was the world's first modern ballistic missile and the first known manmade object to enter outer space. Thousands were launched on Allied targets during the last year of the war, causing more than 9,000 deaths. One of the rocket's first targets was London, which was hit just days after Hitler declared his plans to start V-2 attacks.
It might have been V1's but one of the two was used against the Erich Ludendorff Bridge at Remagen after it's capture by the 1st US Army. The bridge was important enough to warrant that because it was the first Rhine crossing captured and allowed the US to establish a bridgehead east of the Rhine before the bridge collapsed. By the time the bridge collapsed the US Army had constructed pontoon bridges and already had a defensible position east of the river.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 11, 2022, 09:45:50 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY:

Paul Bryant (1913)
Paul "Bear" Bryant was an American college football coach. Best known as the longtime head coach of the University of Alabama football team, he achieved an unparalleled legendary status in the sport, winning the national championship six times. Bryant retired with a whopping 323 career wins, then a college coaching record. Just weeks after his retirement, he suffered a fatal heart attack.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 12, 2022, 10:55:52 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Two Plus Four Agreement Signed in Moscow (1990)
The Two Plus Four Agreement, also known as the Treaty on the Final Settlement With Respect to Germany, was the final peace treaty negotiated between West Germany and East Germany—the "Two"—and the four powers that occupied Germany at the end of World War II: France, the UK, the US, and the Soviet Union. The treaty paved the way for the German reunification, which took place less than a month later, on October 3.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 13, 2022, 08:24:08 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Nintendo Releases Super Mario Bros. (1985)
Super Mario Bros., one of the first side-scrolling platform games, helped to usher in the modern video game era. With expansive worlds and precise controls that marked a dramatic departure from its predecessors, the game sold more than 40 million units, making it the second-best-selling video game of all time. It also helped revitalize the video game industry and made Nintendo one of the world's most recognized video game manufacturers.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 14, 2022, 07:45:43 PM
World War II changed everything we know about warfare, from the weapons we use to the way we fight. Despite immense technological advancements, the final naval engagement of the war wasn't fought between steel battleships or large aircraft carriers. It was fought between two junks off the coast of China.

Junks were a common sight in that area, especially in the days before the Japanese invasion of China. With wooden hulls and rigid sails, they are perfectly suited for the waters off the Chinese coastline. They are not suited for combat against World War II artillery.


Navy Lt. Cmdr. Livingston Swentzel and Marine Corps 1st Lt. Steuart Pittman were in command of the two junks, traveling from Hainan to Shanghai in August 1945. Seven Americans and 20 Chinese guerrillas were manning the tiny flotilla. Not all of them would make it to Shanghai.

Just days before, this journey would have been perilous. Though Japan was losing in the Pacific Theater, Japanese ships were still aggressively prowling the waters of the East China Sea. But since Emperor Hirohito had announced the surrender of the Japanese Navy and Army on Aug. 15, the sea voyage should have been uneventful.


Swentzel and Pittman spotted another junk in the distance on the morning of Aug. 21. When the mystery junk saw the American ships, it came about and fired a round from a 75-millimeter howitzer. The shot hit Pittman's junk, killing its .30-caliber machine gun crew and the helmsman. The rest of the crew scrambled, not knowing what to do next.

While these junks may have been old technology, they were ready for a more modern kind of combat. The two officers coordinated their counterattack via handheld radios as Swentzel and Pittman took over their respective helms. They got their crews under control and went to work on knocking out their attacker, even as more 75-millimeter shells rained down on them.

Swentzel ran up the colors as their junks moved closer to the enemy ship and the two sides exchanged heavy machine-gun fire. When the Allied ships were within 100 yards, each brought out a bazooka, the heaviest weapons they had. With only a few bazooka rounds between them, they hit the Japanese with everything they could.

The third bazooka round finally knocked out the Japanese howitzer. Low on ammunition but still maneuverable, Swentzel then pressed their advantage, bringing his vessel alongside the Japanese boat and shouting an order to his men to prepare to board.

To prepare for the boarding party, American and Chinese troops began tossing grenades at the enemy vessel, killing many of the 83 Japanese defenders on board. Pittman's crew locked onto the enemy ship and boarded it with rifles and knives drawn. The fight was over almost as quickly as it had begun.

By the time Swentzel's crew also boarded the Japanese junk, the entire engagement had lasted 45 minutes. They met little resistance, considering the bulk of the defending crew had been killed in the bazooka and grenade attacks. Still, they had to drop grenades down the hatches and below decks.

When the smoke cleared and the enemy crew finally surrendered, 44 Japanese soldiers were dead with another 35 wounded and captured. The third junk was secured as they all made their way toward Shanghai.

Swentzel would later receive the Navy Cross and Pittman a Silver Star for the last naval battle of World War II, the last battle between sailing ships and the last naval engagement in which an American prize crew boarded an enemy vessel in combat.

-- Blake Stilwell can be reached at blake.stilwell@military.com. He can also be found on Twitter @blakestilwell or on Facebook.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 18, 2022, 09:44:21 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

CBS Goes on the Air (1927)
CBS was one of the three major broadcasting networks to dominate radio and television in the US before the advent of cable TV in the 1980s. CBS began radio broadcasting in 1927. A year later, businessman William S. Paley purchased the network as a vehicle through which to advertise his family's cigars. With Paley at the helm for 50 years, CBS grew into one of the most powerful radio and television broadcasting networks in the nation.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 20, 2022, 11:33:12 PM
FACT OF THE DAY:

Germany was the first country in Europe to adopt Daylight Saving Time (DST), also known as “Summer time,” in 1916 during World War I.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 24, 2022, 07:49:46 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Devils Tower Named First US National Monument (1906)
Rising 1,267 feet (386 m) above the meandering Belle Fourche River, Devils Tower is a cluster of rock columns in the Black Hills of Wyoming formed by the cooling and crystallization of molten matter. The site, which many Native American Plains tribes consider sacred, was declared the first US National Monument by President Theodore Roosevelt in 1906. A popular rock-climbing site, the monument attracts some 400,000 visitors each year.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 25, 2022, 08:18:59 PM
Today in sports history: Sept. 25


1962 — Sonny Liston knocks out Floyd Patterson at 2:06 of the first round at Comiskey Park in Chicago to win the world heavyweight title.

Heavyweight boxer Floyd Patterson is down and out on the canvas after being in the ring for one round with Sonny Liston, right, Sept. 25, 1962, in Chicago. Referee Frank Sikora signals to Liston to go to the neutral corner. (AP Photo)

(https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/siouxcityjournal.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/4/14/414f7d2e-209f-53e0-8f18-05b281e2f72c/5f6dc1cdbb1e7.image.jpg?resize=990%2C894)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 26, 2022, 06:17:37 AM
I was on that as a kid when we took and east coast vacation - it was moored in S.Carolina
It's in Wilmington, NC, near SC.  There are some ships moored in Charleston that are also of interest, but no BBs.

It's worth touring I think if you are in the area.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 26, 2022, 07:50:03 AM
The Gigantic Floating Dry Docks That Could Repair Battleships And Carriers Thousands Of Miles From Home (warhistoryonline.com) (https://www.warhistoryonline.com/world-war-ii/gigantic-floating-dry-docks.html?fbclid=IwAR2tYxAebqEl8UK1BEjprre9KaGC90WuZHLmFb8au_C46iIPYFkrY_X963g&edg-c=1)

(https://i.imgur.com/h0xs9XC.png)

Some of the "noncombat" stuff in WW 2 is really hard to believe for me.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 26, 2022, 11:14:28 AM
It's in Wilmington, NC, near SC.  There are some ships moored in Charleston that are also of interest, but no BBs.

It's worth touring I think if you are in the area.
I was going to point out that the North Carolina is in North Carolina much like the Texas, New Jersey, Alabama, and Massachusetts are in their respective namesake states. The exceptions (Iowa, Missouri, Wisconsin) tend to be named for inaccessible inland states.

The Yorktown and Laffey are great to visit in Charleston but I'd advise skipping the submarine. There are a ton of Gato and Balo class submarines operating as museums and they are nearly identical with the most significant difference being that the Gato Class boats had slightly thicker hulls to allow for deeper dives. The best one to visit, from what I've read is the USS Cod in Cleveland near where I live.

Ironically, the reason the USS Cod is best is because they spent the least preparing it for visitors. Most of the others have large doors cut in them to make them more accessible to tourists but the group that bought the USS Cod basically just towed it to Cleveland, tied it to a pier, and put up a welcome sign. Consequently, it is MUCH more original than the others.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 26, 2022, 11:22:38 AM
USS Albacore (https://www.ussalbacore.org/)

This is an interesting visit, I thought, in MA.

Albacore served as a sea-going test platform from 1953 to 1972. Albacore's teardrop-shaped hull was the prototype for the Navy's nuclear powered submarine force and was the first boat built specifically to operate underwater. Prior to Albacore, submarines had been characterized as surface vessels that could submerge. With her revolutionary hull design and state-of-the-art systems, Albacore provided the Navy with an engineering platform to evaluate systems and design features before including them in future classes of submarines.  Her motto was Praenuntius Futuri (Forerunner of the Future) and her mission was experimental.

Commissioned in December of 1953, Albacore was only 2/3rds the length of a World War II Fleet Boat and, when outfitted with her special high capacity silver-zinc battery, could outrun a contemporary nuclear submarine. In 1966, she set the record as the world's fastest submarine having attained an underwater speed of nearly 40 miles per hour.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on September 26, 2022, 12:55:43 PM
And the Russian subs could launch warheads the size of the Albacore
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 27, 2022, 09:19:53 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

The Taliban Captures Kabul (1996)
During the chaotic period that followed the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan, a militia of Islamic fundamentalist students known as the Taliban became increasingly powerful. In 1996, the Taliban captured the capital city of Kabul and declared itself the legitimate government of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, establishing a strict Islamic regime that became a haven for extremists.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: ELA on September 27, 2022, 03:09:33 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

The Taliban Captures Kabul (1996)
During the chaotic period that followed the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan, a militia of Islamic fundamentalist students known as the Taliban became increasingly powerful. In 1996, the Taliban captured the capital city of Kabul and declared itself the legitimate government of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, establishing a strict Islamic regime that became a haven for extremists.

The more things change...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 29, 2022, 08:59:22 AM
During the Whiskey Rebellion of 1794, the city of Pittsburgh avoided a potentially violent attack by serving several barrels of free whiskey to 7,000 men who assembled at Braddock’s Field. They drank so much they had no further desire to proceed. Provided by History.com
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 29, 2022, 11:06:05 AM
Feed them to the lions! How Ancient Rome demonstrated its brutality and power

The Roman rulers used gladiator games to entertain the public – but these battles also served as political theater

https://english.elpais.com/culture/2022-09-18/feed-them-to-the-lions-how-ancient-rome-demonstrated-its-brutality-and-power.html (https://english.elpais.com/culture/2022-09-18/feed-them-to-the-lions-how-ancient-rome-demonstrated-its-brutality-and-power.html)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 29, 2022, 07:35:24 PM
Murphy's Law

Murphy's Law is the humorous axiom stating that anything that can possibly go wrong will go wrong. Its namesake is likely Edward A. Murphy, an engineer on US Air Force rocket-sled experiments. During one trial, someone methodically wired each sensor involved in an experiment backwards, prompting Murphy to remark, "If there are two or more ways to do something, and one of those ways can result in a catastrophe, then someone will do it."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 29, 2022, 07:41:52 PM
I was watching one of those "what if" war scenario videos on youtube, and it was said that one of our nuke-equipped subs would be the 6th-highest threat in terms of actual warheads that are operational.  
And the fact that it could concieveably launch them all in 7 min...
And the fact that it's basically invisible....
.
Cue the Owen Wilson WOWWWW!!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 29, 2022, 08:02:48 PM
I was watching one of those "what if" war scenario videos on youtube, and it was said that one of our nuke-equipped subs would be the 6th-highest threat in terms of actual warheads that are operational. 
And the fact that it could concieveably launch them all in 7 min...
And the fact that it's basically invisible....
.
Cue the Owen Wilson WOWWWW!!
They don't call the Boomers Nation Killers for no reason. .

Each Ohio Class Submarine carries up to 24 missles and each missile contains up to eight warheads that are each more powerful than all the bombs dropped in all the wars fought.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 01, 2022, 08:55:37 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Honeymooners Premiers on CBS (1955)
The Honeymooners was a short-lived American sitcom based on sketches by comedian Jackie Gleason. It starred Gleason and Audrey Meadows as a struggling working class couple in New York—a drastic departure from other popular comedies of the era that depicted their characters in comfortable, middle-class, suburban environments. Though The Honeymooners was cancelled after just 39 episodes, it has been aired for decades in syndication.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 01, 2022, 01:17:57 PM
On this day in 1879, Lt. Isaac Webster started a 12-member band, the first at the university. It would later grow in talent and ability into what is today known as The Cornhusker Marching Band, “The Pride of All Nebraska."

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/310380218_469141005243843_7640546340571446692_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=CyVid3yT2oIAX_pCVNK&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT8tzOyuYmYa92T0BZrWYqvJmLkSX_tytRc7wo0i9CgiLQ&oe=633D35EA)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 01, 2022, 04:20:19 PM
On this day in 1872, the poster Cincydawg was born.  Here he is on UGA's first football team:
(https://i.imgur.com/4tXgK11.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 01, 2022, 04:22:28 PM
Ha,did you photo shop or just a sharp eye?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 01, 2022, 05:28:42 PM
I was the head coach 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 03, 2022, 04:21:21 AM
Today In History : 3 October (1942)
The first A4 rocket, later dubbed the V-2, flies from Peenemünde, covering 190 km (120 mi) in 296 seconds at five times the speed of sound, reaching an altitude of 84.5 km (52.5 mi).
The V-2 (German: Vergeltungswaffe 2, lit. 'Retaliation Weapon 2'), with the technical name Aggregat 4 (A4), was the world’s first long-range guided ballistic missile. The missile, powered by a liquid-propellant rocket engine, was developed during the Second World War in Nazi Germany as a "vengeance weapon" and assigned to attack Allied cities as retaliation for the Allied bombings against German cities. The V-2 rocket also became the first artificial object to travel into space by crossing the Kármán line (edge of space) with the vertical launch of MW 18014 on 20 June 1944.
Research into military use of long-range rockets began when the graduate studies of Wernher von Braun attracted the attention of the Wehrmacht. A series of prototypes culminated in the A-4, which went to war as the V-2. Beginning in September 1944, over 3,000 V-2s were launched by the Nazi Wehrmacht against Allied targets, first London and later Antwerp and Liège. According to a 2011 BBC documentary, the attacks from V-2s resulted in the deaths of an estimated 9,000 civilians and military personnel, and a further 12,000 forced laborers and Nazi concentration camps prisoners died as a result of their forced participation in the production of the weapons.
The rockets travelled at supersonic speed, impacted without audible warning, and proved unstoppable, as no effective defense existed. Teams from the Allied forces—the United States, the United Kingdom, and the Soviet Union—raced to seize key Nazi manufacturing facilities, procure the Nazis' missile technology, and capture the V-2’s launching sites. Von Braun and over 100 key V-2 personnel surrendered to the Americans, and many of the original V-2 team ended up working at the Redstone Arsenal. The US also captured enough V-2 hardware to build approximately 80 of the missiles. The Soviets gained possession of the V-2 manufacturing facilities after the war, re-established V-2 production, and moved it to the Soviet Union.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 03, 2022, 06:48:03 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/eaKifak.png)

German Navy 15” / 38cm SK L/45 “Lange Max" (Long Max) Railroad Gun firing on the Western Front - 1918

Newer US battleships in WW 2 carried nine guns slightly larger than this one (16" 45 or 50 calibers).

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 03, 2022, 10:14:54 AM
BOOM!!!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 03, 2022, 10:35:27 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Battle of Mogadishu Begins (1993)
In 1992, US armed forces, together with the United Nations, undertook a joint relief operation in Somalia, a country wracked by civil war and famine. Increasing violence in the area led to "Operation Gothic Serpent," a US mission to capture Somali warlord Mohamed Farrah Aidid's top advisors, but two US helicopters were shot down, and an urban battle ensued. Eighteen US servicemen and thousands of Somalis died in the fighting.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 03, 2022, 10:46:53 AM
Teams from the Allied forces—the United States, the United Kingdom, and the Soviet Union—raced to seize key Nazi manufacturing facilities, procure the Nazis' missile technology, and capture the V-2’s launching sites. Von Braun and over 100 key V-2 personnel surrendered to the Americans, and many of the original V-2 team ended up working at the Redstone Arsenal. The US also captured enough V-2 hardware to build approximately 80 of the missiles. The Soviets gained possession of the V-2 manufacturing facilities after the war, re-established V-2 production, and moved it to the Soviet Union.
My dad always said that in the early days of the space race when the Soviets and Americans were first putting rocket's into space the joke was that the Soviet and American rocket's were up there talking to each other in German. It isn't far off from the truth.

It is interesting, if you look at a pre-WWI map of Germany it was vastly larger than modern Germany. In the East it included Konigsberg (now Kalinningrad in Russia), Bresalu (now Worclaw in Poland), Danzig (now Gdansk in Poland), and in the West it included the now French states of Alsace and Lorraine.

One wonders where Germany would be today if they hadn't started and lost the two largest conflicts in human history.

Acording to this site (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angus_Maddison_statistics_of_the_ten_largest_economies_by_GDP_(PPP)), the German Empire had the world's third largest economy in 1910. Problem was that they picked a fight with #1, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14, and others.
Largest economies in 1910:

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 03, 2022, 11:16:28 AM
I have pondered what would have happened had the Germans won WW One, either in 1914 or 1918.  My guess is the settlement would be something like what happened in 1871.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 03, 2022, 11:52:08 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/gsGNMI5.png)

That's a fact, Jack...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 03, 2022, 12:11:37 PM
I have pondered what would have happened had the Germans won WW One, either in 1914 or 1918.  My guess is the settlement would be something like what happened in 1871.
It is an interesting question. I don't think they had much of a chance in 1918 because American troops were arriving in France at a rate of 10,000 per day. I'm not saying that as a product of being Americentric, or to say that US Troops were better than their French, British, or German counterparts, it is simply a matter of numbers. The warring nations had been locked in a stalemate for four years and the introduction of (eventually) 2M extra troops for one side was inherently going to tip the balance.

In 1914, however, I think that the Central Powers could absolutely have overrun France. The Germans did that a quarter-century later and lost anyway but things were different in 1914.

If the Germans hadn't pulled troops out of their advance into France to defeat Russians in East Prussia (which turned out to be paper Tigers anyway) then I think they'd have won on the Marne, the Brits would have looked to get their army off the continent, and France would have fallen.

If Russia eventually collapses anyway (likely), and Italy decides to sit the war out (likely in that scenario) then the Brits would have been alone and the US wouldn't have had a clear reason to get involved.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 03, 2022, 12:13:19 PM
I figure in 1918 they could win if the US didn't get into it.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 03, 2022, 02:04:48 PM
I figure in 1918 they could win if the US didn't get into it.
Well there is that hypothetical possibility.

German diplomacy post Bismark was one catastrophic failure after another right up through WWII.

They managed to fight two enormous wars in a little over 20 years without a worthwhile ally in either one.

In WWII the underlying problem was ideological rather than diplomatic, of course. National Socialism was always going to be a hard sell abroad. However, their diplomatic failures before and during WWI were probably decisive:
Marginally competent diplomacy would likely have kept at least the US out of the war and reasonably decent diplomacy would have kept the Brits out as well.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 03, 2022, 02:48:09 PM
One wonders where Germany would be today if they hadn't started and lost the two largest conflicts in human history.
Germany hardly started the 1st World War which was a continuation of old hostilities and allegiances.And WWII was an extension of that.Look harder you'll find an English Crown in fact had it's dirty fingers involved.The same fingers that twice tried to pry us from our "unalienable rights"
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 03, 2022, 03:55:59 PM
Germany hardly started the 1st World War which was a continuation of old hostilities and allegiances.And WWII was an extension of that.Look harder you'll find an English Crown in fact had it's dirty fingers involved.The same fingers that twice tried to pry us from our "unalienable rights"
Well . . .

I admit that my phrasing was a little harsh wrt WWI and I think the Germans were unfairly deemed wholly responsible for it at Versailles. However, it wasn't the British that gave the Hapsburgs a blank check even AFTER Serbia agreed to nearly all of Austria's demands and it wasn’t the Brits that decided to violate Belgian neutrality either.

Even before the September crisis though, Germany's diplomatic failures had put them in a very difficult situation. Austria-Hungary was a nearly worthless ally (they couldn't even handle either the Russisns or the Italians without significant German help) and Italy was less than worthless (they not only ducked their obligations on the basis of it being an offensive war, they later joined the other side). The Ottomans chewed up a bunch of Allied troops (mostly ANZACS) in Churchill's failed campaign but they didn't actually contribute much.

Once the Serbs mostly caved the smart play would have been for the Kaiser to push back from the table and wait. At the time France was getting progressively weaker, Russia was perennially near collapse, and the German Navy was growing relative to the RN.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 03, 2022, 05:02:08 PM
Well . . .

I admit that my phrasing was a little harsh wrt WWI and I think the Germans were unfairly deemed wholly responsible for it at Versailles. However, it wasn't the British that gave the Hapsburgs a blank check even AFTER Serbia agreed to nearly all of Austria's demands and it wasn’t the Brits that decided to violate Belgian neutrality either.

Even before the September crisis though, Germany's diplomatic failures had put them in a very difficult situation. Austria-Hungary was a nearly worthless ally (they couldn't even handle either the Russisns or the Italians without significant German help) and Italy was less than worthless (they not only ducked their obligations on the basis of it being an offensive war, they later joined the other side). The Ottomans chewed up a bunch of Allied troops (mostly ANZACS) in Churchill's failed campaign but they didn't actually contribute much.

Once the Serbs mostly caved the smart play would have been for the Kaiser to push back from the table and wait. At the time France was getting progressively weaker, Russia was perennially near collapse, and the German Navy was growing relative to the RN.
It was the Brits that had their noses and armies in/out of Europe for how many hundreds of years? And it most certainly was the Crown that violated international law blockading Germany's Northern ports in the Baltic & North Seas that led to the 750,000 Germans to starve to death in WWI and left the following generations stunted and malnourished.Also they cut the Trans-Atlantic telegraph lines another violation.And as if that wasn't enough their Royals foisted the Treaty of Versailles on them that was voted down by the United States Congress. So starved and completely broke they had an axe to grind with the Empire that the Sun never sets on.Whose Lords,Dukes,Earls,Viscounts never lost their Manors or estates from which they fox hunted and played cricket
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 04, 2022, 02:12:57 AM
I figure in 1918 they could win if the US didn't get into it. 
You were there, tell us some stories about it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 04, 2022, 06:46:45 AM
So, after the German victory in 1871, they took some land in eastern France (Alsace in particular) that was, and is today, quite Teutonic.  Germany lost this after WW I of course.  I figure they would have paraded through Paris (again) and taken a few more slices of land and perhaps demanded some payment had they won in 1914.

Belgium was/is a British creation, a buffer state between Holland and France and Germany, and had been guaranteed by GB.  When German executed the Schlieffen plan with a wheel through Belgium, Britain entered the war.  As usual, they had relatively few ground troops to commit.  The German plan was to hit France from the less defended north instead of direct (through more challenging terrain and fortfications) and sweep west of Paris and hit behind the main French lines.  As noted, they weakened their forces because of the Russian attack in Prussia (which failed before the reinforcements got there) and went east of Paris where they were attacked by the Parisian garrison (partly aided by taxis).

The French prepared in 1940 for a repeat of the Schlieffen plan, and Manstein suggested an alternative which was adopted and bizarrely successful.

Anyway, the future could well have been much better had the Germans won WW One.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 04, 2022, 07:31:16 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Boris Yeltsin Orders Tanks to Storm Russian Parliament (1993)
As president of an independent Russia, Boris Yeltsin sought to end state control of the economy but clashed with parliament, which was controlled by former Communists. When Yeltsin suspended the parliament, it retaliated by naming Vice President Aleksandr Rutskoi as acting president, and anti-Yeltsin forces barricaded themselves inside the parliament building. The military interceded on Yeltsin's side and, after a bloody battle, troops recaptured the parliament building.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 04, 2022, 11:01:51 AM
As noted, they weakened their forces because of the Russian attack in Prussia (which failed before the reinforcements got there)
This has always struck me as a somewhat amusing historical oddity.

For those who don't know what @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) and I are talking about, here is a somewhat oversimplified brief explanation:

In 1870 Bismark goaded Napoleon's nephew who was then in control of France into declaring war against Prussia. You have to realize that this was only about 50 years after his Uncle had terrorized and invaded nearly all of Europe including briefly holding Moscow and at one point having a navy (including allies) large enough to credibly threaten to invade Britain.

Most neutral observers thought that France would crush the upstart Prussians. Britain, had been Napoleonic France's arch-nemesis and Prussia was an ally of Britain in the Napolonic wars including providing most of the ground troops at Waterloo. Additionally Britain and France had been enemies/rivals for centuries and the French were Catholic whereas the Prussians were mostly Protestant like the British.

My point is that Britain's natural sympathies were with the Prussians. Nonetheless, British newspapers were printing probable French invasion routes into Prussia in the belief, as I noted above, that the French would win. Instead the Kaiser's troops enveloped and annihalated the French Army at Sedan. Prussia unified most of the German people, the German Empire was declared and the Prussian Kaiser was crowned at Versailles.

The brand new German Empire immediately was the most powerful country on the Continent and over the next 45 years the other European powers set up a series of alliances in an attempt to provide for their defense and also to maintain a balance of power.

Schliefen was a German General who came up with Germany's plan for what was probably an inevitable war with France and Russia. Schliefen himself died before WWI but his plan was still in place when Archduke Ferdinand was assisinated in Sarajevo which ultimately set off WWI.

Schliefen assumed that it would take the Russians many months to fully mobilize and organize so his plan was to defend East Prussia with basically a token force while the vast majority of the German Army swept through Belgium to crush France and knock them out of the war quickly enough that the troops could be freed up to take on the Russians.

Schliefen's plan also specifically called for the last man on the right to "brush the channel with his sleeve". This served two purposes:
Schliefen is said to have died muttering "Only make the right wing strong!" He fundamentally understood that technology had reached a point that massively favored the defensive so he knew that Germany could defend their Eastern frontier and their border with France with very small forces but they would need overwhelming numerical superiority for their offensive on the right.

Incidentally, the French war plan was almost a mirror image of the German plan as they also intended an advance by their right wing. Consequently, when war broke out the French and Germans were each attacking on their right and defending on their left such that when viewed on an overall map it looks like they are trying to go counter-clockwise through an enormous revolving door centered on Luxembourg.

Anyway, the French attack in the South (the French right wing) was a massive failure with the Germans easily stopping them. Meanwhile, the German advance through Belgium and into Northern France was quite successful although it added two new nations to the growing list of Germany's enemies and ultimately did them in some years later.

While all of this was transpiring in the West, the Russians managed to launch an invasion of East Prussia. As it turned out this invasion was disorganized, poorly supplied, poorly led, and generally a disaster for the Russians. However, it served a valuable purpose, it spooked the Germans. Moltke (German overall commander) pulled troops out of the right wing to reinforce East Prussia. The troops pulled from the right wing were in the process of moving East when Ludendorf and Hindenburg obliterated the Russians in East Prussia. At that point Moltke ordered them back to the Western front and they were in the process of moving West when the French stopped the German advance on the Marne.

Thus, the troops did no good for the Germans at all. Had they simply been left in the right wing there is a good chance that the French counter-attack would have been overwhelmed, France would have fallen, and Germany would have won WWI.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 04, 2022, 11:10:11 AM
The First Battle of Bull Run was kind of similar on a far far smaller scale.  The Confederates and the Union forces both attacked on their right flanks.  Neither made much progress, but the arrival of fresh rebels from the Shenandoah turned the tables on the Union right which disintegrated.

I figure had Germany won WW One, they'd have taken some French land, probably not much, maybe neutralized Belgium,  maybe absorbed Luxembourg, and sat back with the Kaiser firmly in control and looking east.  Hitler would never have happened.  Germany might well then have really knocked Russia back and taken land from them.  The Austro-hungarian "empire" would have tottered along a while longer, the Ottoman empire would have lasted longer.

Kaiser Wilhem II and the King of Great Britain were first cousins, as was Tsar Alexander.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 05, 2022, 08:11:12 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/rJnhxhM.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 05, 2022, 09:41:52 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Gb9hNXh.png)

Pont du Gard aqueduct in France.  It really is astonishing what was built back in the day, and still stands.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 05, 2022, 09:43:06 AM
Pont du Gard, (French: “Bridge of the Gard”) giant bridge-aqueduct (https://www.britannica.com/technology/aqueduct-engineering), a notable ancient Roman engineering work constructed about 19 BCE to carry water to the city of Nîmes (https://www.britannica.com/place/Nimes) over the Gard River in southern France (https://www.britannica.com/place/France). Augustus Caesar (https://www.britannica.com/biography/Augustus-Roman-emperor)’s son-in-law and aide, Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa (https://www.britannica.com/biography/Marcus-Vipsanius-Agrippa), is credited with its conception (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conception). It is listed as a UNESCO (https://www.britannica.com/topic/UNESCO) World Heritage site (https://www.britannica.com/topic/World-Heritage-site).

Three tiers of arches rise to a height of 47 metres (155 feet). The first tier is composed of 6 arches, from 15 to 24 metres (51 to 80 feet) wide, the largest spanning the river; the second tier is composed of 11 arches of the same dimensions; and the third, carrying the conduit (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conduit), is composed of 35 smaller (4.6-metre [15-foot]) arches. Like many of the best Roman constructions, it was built without mortar (https://www.britannica.com/technology/mortar-building-material). The structure was severely damaged in the 5th century but was restored in 1743.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 05, 2022, 11:44:43 AM
[img width=273.429 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/rJnhxhM.png[/img]
Does John Ratzenberger appear in this picture as Cliff Claven (his Cheers character and drinking buddy of Norm Peterson whom he us next to), or as Rebel Force Major Derlin (his Star Wars character from Episode V)?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 05, 2022, 11:50:53 AM
[img width=273.429 height=337]https://i.imgur.com/Gb9hNXh.png[/img]

Pont du Gard aqueduct in France.  It really is astonishing what was built back in the day, and still stands.
It has been more than 30 years since I last visited Europe but this was amazing to me even at a young age. Here in the US anything over 400 years old is incredibly rare and in my area of Ohio the cities and townships are celebrating bicentennials having been established around 1800-1830 or so.

In Europe those things are viewed as new. I remember a beer coaster I collected in Bavaria that had "Family Owned since 1485" printed on it. It occurred to me that Christopher Columbus or his crew may have had some of that beer 🍺 before they left on their famous voyage.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 05, 2022, 12:21:32 PM
Didn't the Pilgrims stop because they were out of Bier?
(https://i.imgur.com/6CLxID5.png)

https://www.seriouseats.com/beer-myths-corn-pilgrims-first-beer-thanksgiving-lager-prohibition-history
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 05, 2022, 02:01:49 PM
A photograph took after the war at "Bloody Angle" Spotsylvania Court House. 

The sign reads: "On Fame's eternal camping ground, Their silent tents are spread, And Glory guards, with solemn round, The Bivouac of the dead."

Sergeant Cyrus R. Watson of Company K, Forty-fifth North Carolina wrote of the Angle after the battle:
"It was a bright May day. There was no fighting on any part of the line, and by permission I went. The pickets permitted me to pass, and I went over the breastworks to that portion of the field which had been occupied by Ramseur's Brigade. On my arrival in this angle, I could well see why the enemy had withdrawn their lines. The stench was almost unbearable. There was dead artillery horses in considerable numbers that had been killed on the 10th and in the early morning of the 12th.
Along these lines of breastworks where the earth had been excavated to the depth of one or two feet and thrown over, making the breastworks, I found these trenches filled with water (for there had been much rain) and in this water lay the dead bodies of friend and foe commingled, in many instances one laying across the other, and in one or more instances I saw as many as three lying across one another. All over the field lay the dead of both armies by hundreds, many of them mangled by shells. Many of the bodies swollen out of all proportion, some with their guns yet grasped in their hands. Now and then one could be seen covered with a blanket, which had been placed over him by a comrade after he had fallen.
These bodies were decaying. The water was red, almost black with blood. Offensive flies were everywhere. The trees, saplings and shrubs were torn and shattered beyond description; guns, some of them broken, bayonets, canteens and cartridge boxes were scattered about, and the whole scene was such that no pen can, or ever will describe it. I have seen many fields after severe conflicts, but nowhere have I seen anything half so ghastly.
I returned to my company and said to old man Thomas Carroll, a private in the company, who was frying meat at a fire, You would have saved rations by going with me, for I will have no more appetite for a week."


(https://i.imgur.com/Vn5mhTk.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 06, 2022, 08:46:35 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/JyljWPl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/kNAuthy.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 06, 2022, 09:11:17 AM
The first Hollywood stunt man was ex-U.S. cavalryman Frank Hanaway who was cast in The Great Train Robbery (1903) for his ability to fall off a horse without hurting himself.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 06, 2022, 10:01:09 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Cubana Flight 455 Bombed (1976)
The bombing of Cubana Flight 455 killed all 78 people on board, including several Cuban government officials. At that time, it constituted the most deadly act of airline terrorism ever carried out in the Western Hemisphere. An investigation uncovered evidence implicating anti-Castro Cuban exiles and members of the Venezuelan secret police in the plot. Four men were arrested: two received 20-year prison terms, one was acquitted, and another fled.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 06, 2022, 10:04:59 AM
Didn't the Pilgrims stop because they were out of Bier?
[img width=273.429 height=320]https://i.imgur.com/6CLxID5.png[/img]

https://www.seriouseats.com/beer-myths-corn-pilgrims-first-beer-thanksgiving-lager-prohibition-history
I doubt it, the Pilgrims were teetotalers. An ancestor of mine (not a member of their church) accompanied them on their voyage and was later fined for operating a "tavern" on a Sunday which was illegal in their settlement.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 06, 2022, 10:11:38 AM
So they had the taverns :singing:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 06, 2022, 10:20:51 AM
So they had the taverns :singing:
An illegal one run by my great-great- . . .great-grandfather!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 10, 2022, 10:02:29 AM
FACT OF THE DAY:

The first Ferris wheel was invented in 1893 for the World's Columbian Exhibition in Chicago. The ride was over 264 feet tall and featured passenger cars that weighed over 1,200 lbs and were roughly the size of a city bus. Although the original was demolished in 1906, a 15-story replica can be found at Navy Pier of Chicago.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 10, 2022, 11:19:57 AM
What are some good Christopher Columbus stories? 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 10, 2022, 12:01:46 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ieN5mvw.png)

A thing that surprised me back when was that Germany and Italy are relatively new countries.  

I also learned that Swedes and Danes still don't like each other.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 10, 2022, 12:04:55 PM
Ottoman Empire enters the First World War - The Ottoman Empire | NZHistory, New Zealand history online (https://nzhistory.govt.nz/war/ottoman-empire/enters-the-war)

A few days later the German battlecruiser SMS Goeben and the light cruiser SMS Breslau appeared off the Dardanelles, after evading the French and British fleets in a daring dash through the Mediterranean. They requested passage through the straits to Constantinople. After delicate negotiations – and over Sait’s objections – they were allowed to proceed. A week later the two warships – complete with their German crews – were officially ‘transferred’ to the Ottoman Navy and renamed the Yavuz Sultan Selim and Midilli. The British refused to recognise the transfer unless the German crews were removed, and the Royal Navy blockaded the entrance of the Dardanelles to enforce this demand.
(https://nzhistory.govt.nz/files/images/kaiser-dardanelles.thumbnail.jpg) (https://nzhistory.govt.nz/node/14667)
Kaiser Wilhelm II visits The Dardanelles (https://nzhistory.govt.nz/node/14667)

This rapid escalation in tension quickly led to the withdrawal of the British mission to the Ottoman Navy. In late August, General Liman von Sanders, head of the German military mission to the Ottoman Empire, was appointed commander of the Ottoman First Army (whose remit included the Gallipoli Peninsula). Rear-Admiral Wilhelm Souchon, the German naval commander of the Goeben and Breslau, was appointed by Cemal Pasha to command the Ottoman Navy. Although the Ottoman Empire was still ostensibly neutral at this point, Cemal then appointed German Vice-Admiral Guido von Usedom as ‘Inspector-General of Coastal Defences and Mines’. Von Usedom’s job was to help the Ottoman Army strengthen the coastal defences along both the Bosphorus and the Dardanelles. He arrived in Constantinople on 19 August with a specialist military team of 500 German officers and men. These actions did not go unnoticed in the Allied capitals.
The pro-war faction in the Ottoman government knew that the Germans wanted to bring the empire into the war as quickly as possible. Through such blatant manipulation of the military mission arrangements in favour of Germany, Enver, Cemal and their supporters were clearly signalling where their sympathies lay. By provoking an increasingly belligerent response from the Allied powers, they made it harder for Sait to argue the case for continued neutrality.
(https://nzhistory.govt.nz/files/images/ottoman-declaration-war.thumbnail.jpg) (https://nzhistory.govt.nz/node/14741)
Ottoman Empire declares war, November 1914 (https://nzhistory.govt.nz/node/14741)

But as the weeks dragged by, Enver grew impatient. On 25 October 1914, without consulting any of his ministerial colleagues, he ordered Admiral Souchon to take the Ottoman fleet, including the German-crewed ships, into the Black Sea to attack the Russians. The fleet carried out surprise raids on Theodosia, Novorossisk, Odessa and Sevastopol, sinking a Russian minelayer, a gunboat and 14 civilian ships. On 2 November, Russia declared war on the Ottoman Empire. France and the British Empire, Russia’s wartime allies, followed suit on the 5th. Enver Pasha had succeeded in bringing the Ottoman Empire into the First World War on the side of the Central Powers, Germany and Austria-Hungary. Whether he would be as successful in achieving his principle war aim – pan-Turkic expansion into Central Asia at Russia′s expense – was another question.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 12, 2022, 08:11:33 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Columbus Makes Landfall in the Caribbean (1492)
Believing that Asia could be reached by traveling westward, Columbus's three-ship expedition set sail from Palos, Spain, in 1492. After a stop at the Canary Islands, Columbus sailed due west, turning in a more southerly direction after about a month at sea. Shortly thereafter, Columbus quelled a small mutiny, and, on October 12, landed at an island in the Bahamas. Columbus also explored nearby Cuba and Hispaniola before returning to Spain.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 18, 2022, 05:14:43 PM
This strange object is an armored cloche defensive fortification.
Armored cloches (meaning bell) were a type of static defense that provided its occupants protection and a wide field of fire. They were made of incredibly thick cast steel (this one being between 200-300 mm).
The square holes near the top are firing ports (the rest are out of view) that give the crew a 360 degree view around the cloche. A machine gun was mounted on a rail system around the inside, and could be relocated to fire through each port. When not in use, ports could be plugged from the inside.
The cloches would be submerged in concrete above a shaft and form part of a larger bunker complex. Only the upper portion above the firing ports would be visible. Defenders entered, exited and resupplied the cloche from the shaft below.
This particular example weighs around 60 tons and is likely a German 20P7. It was relocated from Cherbourg to its present location at the =AZWC-8oz2geOyWOU9egiZYwfpohS0SukYTz0KPANzmOCf4um6F7BAISEa10Zeef4IyVqBMUz2t8y6RoNuVLRRukDak-v_7PV_dmj4N_6Q0NiSxirTqmUGZCFktW1gd_kFoVkkbVwxK510A1R91XVRuHma7--bBSRQK5Aq-Jz4WcKGflSfS7_-bqvW6SbCV5hiQKn0kkaMDOew3IfeGxJ38X2&__tn__=-]K-R"][color=var(--accent)]Musée D-Day Omaha (http://"https://www.facebook.com/museeddayomaha?__cft__[0)[/iurl], near Omaha Beach, Normandy, France.[/font][/font][/size][/color]
The circular marks are shell impacts. None penetrated.


(https://i.imgur.com/RtEO6Sb.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 18, 2022, 07:36:02 PM
What are some good Christopher Columbus stories?
He discovered a land already populated by people.
He discovered a land already discovered hundreds of years earlier.
He never actually set foot on the mainland of North America.
He labeled native Americans 'Indians,' despite being over 7,000 miles from India.
.
But he's so cool and due solely to ignorant tradition, we should celebrate him.
That about sum it up?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 20, 2022, 08:23:05 AM
In the early 1600s, scientists were facing a theoretical and practical problem: a  pump could only raise water up to a height of 10 metres (34 ft).  Galileo[/iurl] argued that suction pumps were able to draw water from a well because of the "force of vacuum." This argument, however, failed to explain the fact that suction pumps could only raise water to a height of 10 metres. Then an Italian man (student of Galileo) solved this puzzle by proposing that we live in a "sea of air" that exerts a pressure and then invented the That great Italian man is our "scientist of the day" today.
It's the birthday of EvangelistaTorricelli[/iurl], the first man to create a sustained vacuum --
(Scientist of the Day - 15 October)
Torricelli was fascinated by astronomy and was a student & strong supporter of Galileo. After Galileo's trial in 1633, he realised that he would be on dangerous ground were he to continue with his interests in the Copernican[/iurl] theory so he deliberately shifted his attention onto mathematical areas which seemed less controversial.
In 1643, Torricelli filled a meter-long tube (with one end sealed off) with mercury[/iurl] (13 times denser than water) and setting it vertically into a basin of the liquid metal. The column of mercury fell to about 76 cm (30 inch), producing a Torricellian vacuum above. This was the first recorded incident of creating permanent vacuum[/iurl]. This work laid the foundations for the modern concept of atmospheric pressure, the first barometer and the first pressure altimeter.
The solution to the suction pump puzzle and the discovery of the principle of the barometer and altimeter have perpetuated Torricelli's fame with terms such as "Torricellian tube" & "Torricellian vacuum". 

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 20, 2022, 08:23:53 AM
.
But he's so cool and due solely to ignorant tradition, we should celebrate him.
That about sum it up?
"Celebrate" is not the right word, in my view, but his actions had an enormous impact on history.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 20, 2022, 08:52:47 PM
yup, no fireworks or backyard parties or drink specials
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 21, 2022, 08:26:24 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Florence Nightingale Sent to Treat War Wounded (1854)
Though Nightingale's parents opposed their daughter's pursuit of a career in nursing, she persevered and is now considered the founder of modern nursing. During the Crimean War, she traveled to Turkey to treat the British wounded, earning the nickname "The Lady with the Lamp" for her devotion to the troops' care. Upon her return, she wrote Notes on Nursing, the first nursing textbook, and founded the Nightingale Training School.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 21, 2022, 08:59:23 AM
Now here's something you don't or didnt't see every day. NOT a Superfortress, it's a proposed 'Ultrafortress B-54':

"This Superfortress, B-29-25-BW (42-24441), was modified under “Project S68” in late 1944 for manned turrets evaluation purposes. Instead of the B-29’s sophisticated defensive system, it was fitted with a pair of manned Martin turrets in the top fuselage; two Sperry A-2 ball turrets (one visible behind the nose wheels strut) on bottom of the fuselage and this outrageous pair of Emmerson 136 “jowl” barbettes on the nose."
(https://i.imgur.com/nyp8DqX.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 21, 2022, 02:36:16 PM
The Elefant - Both Excellent and Terrible - Tank Historia (https://tankhistoria.com/wwii/elefant/?fbclid=IwAR16mg_C4q-Fb25XTJctgDRl8y9ytTI0amG56VHISPF9Uq6ZJ11ad74GZP8)

(https://i.imgur.com/i2v2pOZ.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 21, 2022, 06:59:27 PM
In 1963, San Francisco Giants pitcher Gaylord Perry famously declared, "They'll put a man on the moon before I hit a home run."

On July 20, 1969, just 20 minutes after Neil Armstrong became the first human being ever to walk on the moon, Perry hit the first, and only, home run of his career.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/312493453_566284858831790_424834351433102066_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=MUzfgDX6JBIAX_LQSRK&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AT_fNxk0sHbxswaWGpDATJQvjmIyxts4l4aoZue_XutGoQ&oe=635719DC)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 22, 2022, 05:26:14 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Kennedy Confirms Missile Presence in Cuba (1962)
The Cuban Missile Crisis was a major Cold War confrontation that began when US reconnaissance flights uncovered Soviet missile sites in Cuba. President John F. Kennedy denounced the Soviet actions, imposed a naval blockade on Cuba, and vowed that the US would retaliate against any missile launched from Cuba. After hovering on the brink of war for several days, the two superpowers were able to reach a compromise.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 22, 2022, 05:28:01 PM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY:
Curly Howard (1903)
Jerome Lester Horwitz, a man best known as "Curly Howard" or simply "Curly," was arguably the most popular member of the legendary comedy trio the Three Stooges. He appeared in nearly 100 Three Stooges shorts before suffering a career-ending stroke. According to brother and fellow Stooge Moe Howard, Curly often struggled with his lines and instead improvised the visual and vocal nonsense that became hallmarks of his character.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 23, 2022, 12:51:09 PM
20 Images Chronicling Custer’s Last Stand

The Battle of Little Bighorn, more commonly known as Custer’s Last stand, was fought June 25-26, 1876 between the U.S. 7th Cavalry and the Lakota, Northern Cheyenne, and the Arapaho tribes. The 7th Cavalry suffered an overwhelming defeat with five of the Cavalry’s twelve companies being completely decimated.

As settlers headed west into the Great Plains in the second half of the 19th century, tensions between the United States and the Natives grew to conflicts known as the Sioux Wars.

During the Sun Dance, the most important religious ceremony of the year for the Lakota and Cheyenne, spiritual leader Sitting Bull had a vision of “soldiers falling into his camp like grasshoppers from the sky.”

On June 25, Custer’s scouts saw a large band of horses and a Native village. Custer, after the Cavalry had been spotted by hostiles, elected to begin the attack immediately.

Custer was told before the expedition that there would be no more than 800 warriors. Due to a protest of the U.S. government policies by ‘reservation Indians,’ many more joined Sitting Bull for the summer buffalo hunt. There were between 1,500 and 2,500 warriors.



https://historycollection.com/20-images-chronicling-custers-last-stand/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=HC8&utm_campaign=23851527742120447&utm_content=23851527740820447_23851527741410447 (https://historycollection.com/20-images-chronicling-custers-last-stand/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=HC8&utm_campaign=23851527742120447&utm_content=23851527740820447_23851527741410447)

(https://cdn.historycollection.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Comanche-Captain-Keoghs-Mount-the-Only-Survivor-of-Custers-Last-Stand.-Pinterest.jpg)

Comanche, Captain Keogh’s Mount, allegedly the Only Survivor of Custer’s Last Stand.

(https://cdn.historycollection.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Capt.-Myles-W.-Keogh-and-troopers-of-Company-I-were-killed-here.-Photograph-taken-in-1877.National-Park-Service.jpg)

Capt. Myles W. Keogh and troopers of Company I were killed here. Photograph taken in 1877. National Park Service

(https://cdn.historycollection.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Custers-Last-Stand-Custers-men-before-the-Battle-Of-Little-Big-Horn.-Pinterest.jpg)
(https://cdn.historycollection.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Three-of-Custers-scouts-accompanying-Edward-Curtis-on-his-investigative-tour-of-the-battlefield-circa-1907.-Wikimedia.jpg)


(https://cdn.historycollection.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/bones-of-the-dead-from-Custers-Last-Stand.-history.com_.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 23, 2022, 01:25:25 PM
Just saw a segment on some historian/battle field detective team trying to piece together where the spoils of war went after the battle.Like saddles,guns,uniforms,tools anything of use - the Indians were quite resourceful and creative putting items to good use out of necessity.Turns out they think the Crow Tribe made off with much of it.As the 3 tribes you mentioned fled after the battle. The Crow and Arikara were allied with the Blue Coats because the Souix/Cheyenne/Arapaho had driven them from those lands that were theirs.

 Ironically the Chippewa were driven out of places by the Northern Cheyenne who inturn were ousted by the Lakota Souix but later they allied because of the settlers/miners moving in.See it wasn't all Kumbaya with the Native Peoples.Anyway with metal detectors and ground penetrating radar they able to track up into the ravines,gulleys,recesses of sandstone hills miles away.Unfortunately they had to stop as they were upon an old burial ground that was revered so they could go no further
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 23, 2022, 01:40:54 PM
I've been to the battlefield a couple times
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 23, 2022, 01:44:27 PM
Lot more than 9-18-36 holes out there
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 23, 2022, 02:09:43 PM
yup, but not MORE fun
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 24, 2022, 07:05:38 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/QA0pDXX.png)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 24, 2022, 09:53:31 AM
Sporty car!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 25, 2022, 01:51:57 PM
admin,+Journal+manager,+Babitz (1).pdf (http://file:///C:/Users/jcdoo/Downloads/admin,+Journal+manager,+Babitz (1).pdf)

In Bush v. Gore (2000), the Supreme Court affirmed that “the individual citizen has no federal constitutional right to vote for Electors for the President of the United State unless and until the state legislature chooses a statewide election as the means to implement its power to appoint members of the Electoral College … [the state legislature] may, if it so chooses, select the Electors itself.”

In fact, states utilized both direct selection by their state legislatures and popular election (in two general forms) for the first several Presidential elections. The three general modes employed were: (i) direct selection by the state legislature (hereinafter the “direct legislative choice method”); (ii) election of Electors by popular vote within separate districts of the state (hereinafter the “district election method”); and (iii) election of the entire slate of Electors by statewide “winner-take-all” popular vote (hereinafter the “general ticket method”). 

Beginning with the first Presidential elections, political factions used the array of methods available for choosing Electors to seek implementation of the mode that would be most favorable to their candidates. As a result, state legislatures often changed their method of selection in a particular Presidential election year depending upon which method would yield the best result based on their partisan preferences or based on a compromise within a particular legislature between opposing parties. 

For example, from 1800 through 1820, Massachusetts changed between the direct legislative choice method (in years where one party dominated the Legislature) and a district election method (when a split Legislature compromised to allow for a possible split of Electors). Similarly, New Jersey and North Carolina also engaged in switching methods based on partisanship during this period (McCormick 32, 109).
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 27, 2022, 05:09:30 AM
Cincinnati chili celebrates 100 years: Here's who we have to thank for it (wcpo.com) (https://www.wcpo.com/longform/cincinnati-chili-we-cant-eat-enough-of-it-heres-where-it-started?fbclid=IwAR08GZU9noPBNd5SU9KCz4yJPTlUK2FReOCgO9QD5ZSaLTkXlra-8Gk_WrU)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 27, 2022, 06:28:20 AM
Be my guess there's not much celebrating going on out side of there.I've had it yrs ago it was all right,definately not Chili - ya know the stuff with meat/beans in it
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 27, 2022, 06:32:03 AM
Yeah, it took me a while (years) to get used to its  being something other than normal chili as I knew the dish, but then I accepted it and ate it a few times a month or so.  I think too much is made over the moniker, if it was called something else, it might get broader interest.

We have all kinds of other dishes with many variations and nobody gets upset about it, usually.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 27, 2022, 09:12:15 AM
The first speeding ticket was issued in 1902. At this time, most cars could only drive up to 45 mph.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 27, 2022, 10:14:51 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Treaty of Madrid Signed (1795)
The Treaty of Madrid—also called Pinckney's Treaty or the Treaty of San Lorenzo—was an agreement between the fledgling nation of the United States and colonial Spain. It defined the boundaries between the US and Spanish colonies to the south and west, and it secured the US rights to navigate the Mississippi River, which was a critical waterway for trade. The signatories also agreed not to incite native tribes to warfare.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 27, 2022, 11:29:51 AM
Time line – The Varsity (https://thevarsity.com/pages/time-line)

(https://i.imgur.com/D3xOhCu.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 27, 2022, 02:36:47 PM
Time line – The Varsity (https://thevarsity.com/pages/time-line)

[img width=273.429 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/D3xOhCu.png[/img]
I ate there when I was in town for the Final Four. I wasn't all that impressed. That isn't to say it was bad, just didn't live up to the buildup IMHO.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 27, 2022, 03:00:51 PM
It's mediocre, at best, in my opinion.  It's just a local thing I reckon, been around forever.  It also got relatively expensive.

There are PLENTY of better places for that sort of food.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 28, 2022, 07:53:38 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Bernie Ecclestone (1930)
Ecclestone is a controversial British business magnate and one of the most powerful people in the world of Formula One (F1) racing. Briefly a racer, he gave up the sport after several accidents but later returned as a manager and team owner. In the 1970s, he secured his position in the F1 organization by negotiating TV broadcasting rights, vastly increasing the sport's popularity. In 2004, the billionaire's home became the most expensive ever sold when a steel magnate bought it
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on October 28, 2022, 08:57:22 AM
He discovered a land already populated by people.
He discovered a land already discovered hundreds of years earlier.
He never actually set foot on the mainland of North America.
He labeled native Americans 'Indians,' despite being over 7,000 miles from India.
.
But he's so cool and due solely to ignorant tradition, we should celebrate him.
That about sum it up?
Columbus Day was never a big deal around these parts. I learned later in life that apparently it was a big deal in the NE.  Maybe others can chime in. 

The thing I always understood about Columbus is that he was the first with enough guts to strike out West over a pretty large portion of ocean that had never been successful explored by European nations. He was absolutely seeking fortune.  

while it sucks that the native people suffered at the arrival of the Europeans was there an inherent reason why they couldn’t settle these areas?  Most tribes in the New World ( yes I’m aware people lived here for tens of thousands of years prior) were nomadic. They had no formal government, little written language, very little technology, no science, no concept of most of what made up European society. The tribes were constantly at war with each other, just with not much technology. Hell, the Aztecs were probably some of the most advanced and they were basically Nazi Natives.  One might argue that defeating them wasn’t bad. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on October 28, 2022, 10:01:40 AM
Erasing 99.9% of any population from a continent is bad (unless you meant Aztecs, specifically).
.
I think to this day, a majority of people think 'less advanced' = worse
And in terms of comfort, sure.  That's accurate.  But our comfortable, advanced lifestyles aren't sustainable without major changes.  We're quick to innovate and slow to mitigate.  
Personally, I value tribal peoples simply due to the fact that while we can damn rivers and clear-cut forests, we don't have to.  We can live in harmony with nature (not to sound like a hippy or whatever).  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2022, 10:08:49 AM
The natives in America were not some version of "people living in harmony with Nature" types.  They did so because of low population density and little technology.  As noted, they fought with each other often and had some rather extreme religious views (so did the Catholics that came over often as not).  At any rate, when a technically superior people encounter the opposite, bad things happen, every time, in global history.  Spain became a world power simply due to the wealth extracted from the New World.  Europe also greatly benefited as well of course.  

I just read a book about the transcontinental railroad in the US.  The locals tried to inhibit it, and were almost wiped out in the region as a result.  (I don't think this was his best effort, reading it was a slog.)

(https://i.imgur.com/j7JTyix.png)

At any rate, Columbus had an enormous impact on global history.  Someone else would have managed it later obviously.  The Portuguese were already making great strides on navigation and shipping.  The Chinese had a great fleet around that time as well that they basically abandoned, they might well have done it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 28, 2022, 10:11:24 AM
Erasing 99.9% of any population from a continent is bad (unless you meant Aztecs, specifically).
.
I think to this day, a majority of people think 'less advanced' = worse
And in terms of comfort, sure.  That's accurate.  But our comfortable, advanced lifestyles aren't sustainable without major changes.  We're quick to innovate and slow to mitigate. 
Personally, I value tribal peoples simply due to the fact that while we can damn rivers and clear-cut forests, we don't have to.  We can live in harmony with nature (not to sound like a hippy or whatever). 
99.9 might have been an exaggeration
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on October 28, 2022, 10:18:56 AM
Erasing 99.9% of any population from a continent is bad (unless you meant Aztecs, specifically).
.
I think to this day, a majority of people think 'less advanced' = worse
And in terms of comfort, sure.  That's accurate.  But our comfortable, advanced lifestyles aren't sustainable without major changes.  We're quick to innovate and slow to mitigate. 
Personally, I value tribal peoples simply due to the fact that while we can damn rivers and clear-cut forests, we don't have to.  We can live in harmony with nature (not to sound like a hippy or whatever). 
And yet, unless you're 100% native American, you're here because of what took place.  

Serious question for you:  When the European settlers arrived starting in the 1500's did the natives have any right to keep them from coming?  There were no boundaries, no maps, no government, no laws as we know them.  They inhabited the lands, but like I said most were nomadic and didn't "live" where the settlers moved in.  So the people with the best technology won, as is usually the case.  

From accounts on the western front the attacks the natives put on the settlers could be brutal, it was definitely a war from both sides perspective.  I think after about a couple of hundred years the natives finally realized they were going to be squeezed out and decided to fight back.  The settlers just wanted to get their piece of land and live.  Worlds collided and stuff.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2022, 10:22:09 AM
I don't think the natives in the East were nomadic very much at all, they had settled towns and villages and stayed there, and built the various "mounds" hither and yon, which indicates they resided in the same place for long periods.  The Aztecs and Mayans clearly settled in one place and built impressive cities.

They certainly had government, totalitarian apparently.  Mexico City at that time was very impressive.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 28, 2022, 10:35:00 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/ieN5mvw.png)

A thing that surprised me back when was that Germany and Italy are relatively new countries. 

I also learned that Swedes and Danes still don't like each other.
This "late to the scene" issue massively contributed to both World Wars in the 20th Century.  The history of how Germany was formed is a long and complicated one but the short version is that up until Napoleon they had been a collection of minor "kingdoms" or "duchys" that were at least nominally independent but frequently allied together into larger groups out of necessity.  Thus the Hanseatic League and the Holy Roman Empire.  

The Holy Roman Empire was famously neither holy nor roman nor an empire.  Rather, it was a loose alliance of minor Germanic kingdoms and it was nearly always dominated by the Austrians.  

As Prussia grew in size and power there came to be a conflict between two most powerful Germanic kingdoms, Prussia in the north and and Austria in the south.  Adding fuel to the fire of this conflict was the fact that most northern Germans were Protestant Lutherans while most Southern Germans were Catholics.  Prussia and Austria fought a war in 1866.  This war was right after the American Civil War which ended in 1865 and just before the Franco-Prussian War of 1870.  The fact that it came before the Franco-Prussian war is not coincidental.  Bismark HAD to secure his southern flank before he could take on France.  Then he goaded the famous Napoleon's nephew into declaring war on Prussia and promptly kicked the living crap out of the French.  

The German empire was declared IN France at the conclusion of the Franco-Prussian War.  Then, finally, the bulk of the German people were united into one nation but there were two major problems that would cause issues going forward:

The established powers (England, France, Russia) formed an alliance to maintain their power and the less established powers of Germany and Italy formed their own alliance.  The Austro-Hungarian Empire was more-or-less forced into the German/Italian camp because the established powers saw them for the fading military power that they were and weren't really interested in allying with them.  The Germany-Austria-Italy alliance, however, was always tenuous at best.  Italy and Austria had territorial disputes all along their border most notably South Tyrol and Trieste and there were always a large number of people in the German Empire who wanted to unite all Germans into ONE Germany.  This, of course, was problematic for the Hapsburgs as they ruled a substantial number of Ethnic Germans in Austria and beyond.  Worse for the Hapsburgs, there were a lot of German people within their own lands who felt more loyalty to their Germanic cousins in the German Empire than to their own perceived foreign rulers.  One example of this is a certain Austrian who joined not he Austrian but the German Army in WWI, rose to Corporal, and later became infamous.  

When WWI came, the Italians bowed out and eventually joined the other side through a treaty that looks more like a Real Estate Contract because it was.  The British and French wanted to endanger the Southern flank of the Austrians and they traded land to Italy to accomplish that goal.  

Interestingly, when the Austro-Hungarian Empire was collapsing the Germanic portions of it declared their independence as the "Republic of German Austria" with the stated goal of merging with Germany.  Ie, Anschluss wasn't something that Hitler dreamed up on his own, it had been the express goal of Austria as formed.  Additionally, the Republic of German Austria also claimed all of the German Speaking areas of the old empire which included a number of areas that would become problematic a quarter century later when the Nazi's claimed them.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 28, 2022, 10:40:58 AM
Ottoman Empire enters the First World War - The Ottoman Empire | NZHistory, New Zealand history online (https://nzhistory.govt.nz/war/ottoman-empire/enters-the-war)

A few days later the German battlecruiser SMS Goeben and the light cruiser SMS Breslau appeared off the Dardanelles, after evading the French and British fleets in a daring dash through the Mediterranean. They requested passage through the straits to Constantinople. After delicate negotiations – and over Sait’s objections – they were allowed to proceed. A week later the two warships – complete with their German crews – were officially ‘transferred’ to the Ottoman Navy and renamed the Yavuz Sultan Selim and Midilli. The British refused to recognise the transfer unless the German crews were removed, and the Royal Navy blockaded the entrance of the Dardanelles to enforce this demand.
(https://nzhistory.govt.nz/files/images/kaiser-dardanelles.thumbnail.jpg) (https://nzhistory.govt.nz/node/14667)
Kaiser Wilhelm II visits The Dardanelles (https://nzhistory.govt.nz/node/14667)

This rapid escalation in tension quickly led to the withdrawal of the British mission to the Ottoman Navy. In late August, General Liman von Sanders, head of the German military mission to the Ottoman Empire, was appointed commander of the Ottoman First Army (whose remit included the Gallipoli Peninsula). Rear-Admiral Wilhelm Souchon, the German naval commander of the Goeben and Breslau, was appointed by Cemal Pasha to command the Ottoman Navy. Although the Ottoman Empire was still ostensibly neutral at this point, Cemal then appointed German Vice-Admiral Guido von Usedom as ‘Inspector-General of Coastal Defences and Mines’. Von Usedom’s job was to help the Ottoman Army strengthen the coastal defences along both the Bosphorus and the Dardanelles. He arrived in Constantinople on 19 August with a specialist military team of 500 German officers and men. These actions did not go unnoticed in the Allied capitals.
The pro-war faction in the Ottoman government knew that the Germans wanted to bring the empire into the war as quickly as possible. Through such blatant manipulation of the military mission arrangements in favour of Germany, Enver, Cemal and their supporters were clearly signalling where their sympathies lay. By provoking an increasingly belligerent response from the Allied powers, they made it harder for Sait to argue the case for continued neutrality.
(https://nzhistory.govt.nz/files/images/ottoman-declaration-war.thumbnail.jpg) (https://nzhistory.govt.nz/node/14741)
Ottoman Empire declares war, November 1914 (https://nzhistory.govt.nz/node/14741)

But as the weeks dragged by, Enver grew impatient. On 25 October 1914, without consulting any of his ministerial colleagues, he ordered Admiral Souchon to take the Ottoman fleet, including the German-crewed ships, into the Black Sea to attack the Russians. The fleet carried out surprise raids on Theodosia, Novorossisk, Odessa and Sevastopol, sinking a Russian minelayer, a gunboat and 14 civilian ships. On 2 November, Russia declared war on the Ottoman Empire. France and the British Empire, Russia’s wartime allies, followed suit on the 5th. Enver Pasha had succeeded in bringing the Ottoman Empire into the First World War on the side of the Central Powers, Germany and Austria-Hungary. Whether he would be as successful in achieving his principle war aim – pan-Turkic expansion into Central Asia at Russia′s expense – was another question.
This is a rare example of both a German diplomatic success and a British diplomatic failure.  

The German gift of Goeben and Breslau to the Turks effectively cost the Germans nothing as the ships otherwise would have been trapped in the Mediterranean where the British would have eventually found and destroyed them.  Coincidentally, at the exact same time the British in a VERY uncharacteristically undiplomatic move notified the Turks that several warships the Turks had ordered from British Yards and PAID FOR would NOT be delivered because they had been taken into service in the Royal Navy due to the conflict.  The Turks were understandably furious that the ships they had paid for were summarily stolen by the British and that contributed to their goodwill toward the Germans who gave them the warships they wanted.  

It didn't change the outcome of the war but it certainly made things more difficult for the Allies as their Dardnelles campaign (one of Churchill's least successful ideas) was a catastrophe.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 28, 2022, 10:52:54 AM
He discovered a land already populated by people.
He discovered a land already discovered hundreds of years earlier.
He never actually set foot on the mainland of North America.
He labeled native Americans 'Indians,' despite being over 7,000 miles from India.
.
But he's so cool and due solely to ignorant tradition, we should celebrate him.
That about sum it up?
These are just silly arguments:

"He discovered a land already populated by people."  
During the age of discovery the Europeans mapped the world.  It is true that the lands that they "discovered" had obviously already been "found" by the people living there but prior to the 15th century the people living in the Americas had no idea that there were other continents with people living in them and vice-versa.  By the end of the 16th century there was a fairly accurate world map and educated people anywhere in the world could read about most of the other people in the world.  

"He discovered a land already discovered hundreds of years earlier."  
Yes, the Vikings did get to North America.  This was long rumored and finally proven a few decades ago through an archeological dig that conclusively proved a pre-Columbian Viking presence in North America.  The problem with this as an argument is obvious by the need to prove their presence through archeological digs.  The Vikings got here but they didn't tell anybody and they themselves only had a vague oral-tradition rumor.  When Columbus found America it stayed found.  

"He never actually set foot on the mainland of North America."  
So what?  He conclusively proved that if you sailed West from the Canary Islands you WOULD hit land before your supplies ran out.  That opened up the exploration that followed.  

"He labeled native Americans 'Indians' despite being over 7,000 miles from India."  
Columbus had substantially overestimated the distance across Eurasia and underestimated the circumference of the Earth.  The combination of the two errors led to him believing that by the time he had crossed the Atlantic he was somewhere in the vicinity of China or India.  Yeah, he was off by ~7kmi but the point is that he got here and showed others that you could do it and he was followed by a wave of exploration like nothing the world had seen before.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 28, 2022, 10:58:38 AM
At any rate, Columbus had an enormous impact on global history.  Someone else would have managed it later obviously.  The Portuguese were already making great strides on navigation and shipping.  The Chinese had a great fleet around that time as well that they basically abandoned, they might well have done it.
I assume you know this but the whole reason the Spanish financed a Westward exploratory voyage was because the Portuguese had already locked them out of the Southern (around Africa) route.  The spice trade with China in those days was lucrative but difficult.  Trekking from Europe through the Khyber Pass and all the way to China and back would make a man a lot of money but it took years and there was a substantial chance that he would die either of disease or in a conflict with thieves or hostile natives on the way.  Additionally, wagons could only carry so much.  By that time the Europeans were capable of building ships large enough to make the voyage much more profitable than the wagon-trek.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 28, 2022, 10:59:43 AM
(not to sound like a hippy or whatever). 
Of course you do, we're used to it ;)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 28, 2022, 11:02:07 AM
Erasing 99.9% of any population from a continent is bad (unless you meant Aztecs, specifically).
.
I think to this day, a majority of people think 'less advanced' = worse
And in terms of comfort, sure.  That's accurate.  But our comfortable, advanced lifestyles aren't sustainable without major changes.  We're quick to innovate and slow to mitigate. 
Personally, I value tribal peoples simply due to the fact that while we can damn rivers and clear-cut forests, we don't have to.  We can live in harmony with nature (not to sound like a hippy or whatever). 
First of all, it wasn't 99.9%.  

Second, I'm simply not going to hold this as a unique sin of the Europeans.  In all of world history when populations have bumped up against one-another there have been winners and losers.  This same process was occurring within the Americas all the time and had occurred in Europe and elsewhere as well.  

The more advanced people won.  Surprise, surprise.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 28, 2022, 11:16:22 AM
Medina's new title is going to be "Smartest Guy in the Room".
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2022, 11:22:20 AM
Humans are aggressive take when they are able.  I don't see a reason to run down Columbus, nor hail him as a hero either.  History is history, except when it isn't, and much of what we were taught back in the day isn't.

One difference that is important, I think, is wars fought between armies, and wars fought to eradicate or subdue civilians.  The Israelites, according to the Bible, took Canaan (and had it taken from them a few times) and eradicated those living there often as not.  The Mongols had an interesting approach and would lay waste to entire cities if they didn't surrender.  South Africa has some interesting history.  Even in the US before colonization, whole peoples rose and disappeared over time, replaced by others.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2022, 11:26:50 AM
This is not so well known today.

William the Conqueror was an innovator in government. He built a strong centralized administration staffed with his Norman supporters. He was also not about to put up with any backtalk from the newly conquered English.

He subdued the south and east easily, but the north rose in rebellion. William's response was the ferocious "Harrying of the North" (1069-70), which devastated the land in a broad swath from York to Durham. The results of this burning and destruction left much of the area depopulated for centuries.

Hereward
Following on the heels of northern resistance the most famous English rebel of them all, Hereward the Wake, stirred up resistance to the Norman conquerors in East Anglia from a base at Ely, deep in the fenland. Eventually Hereward, too, was subdued, perhaps bought off, and the land was William's to hold.
Early Castles
One of the ways he ensured that he held it was to build castles everywhere. These were often hurried affairs in a continental "motte and bailey" design, usually in wood, only later replaced with stone. Most were built with forced local labour on land confiscated from English rebels. The castles were given to Norman barons to hold for the king.
In theory, every inch of English land belonged to the Crown and William's vassals had to swear fealty directly to the Crown. Contrast this with the earlier Saxon practice where each man swore allegiance to the person of his lord (click here to review (https://www.britainexpress.com/History/anglo-saxon_life-kinship_and_lordship.htm)). Now William was making loyalty to the nation, in the form of the Crown, supersede loyalty to the individual person of a lord.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on October 28, 2022, 01:21:34 PM
TBH the whole pre-Germany Prussia, Holy Roman Empire, and all of that really confuses me, and I suspect that it's not something you can understand without a lot of due diligence and studies.  That was a great breakdown.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 28, 2022, 01:39:34 PM
TBH the whole pre-Germany Prussia, Holy Roman Empire, and all of that really confuses me, and I suspect that it's not something you can understand without a lot of due diligence and studies.  That was a great breakdown.
It really is a confusing mess involving not only the ethnically German people in the area but also Swede's, Dane's, Lithuanians, Poles, etc.

Eventually it crystallized into essentially "two germanys" being the Hohenzolleren ruled Prussians in the North and the Hapsburg ruled Austrians in the South. As nationalism grew (not only in Germany but across Europe) a lot of Germans wanted a united "One Germany" but obviously this was problematic because both the Hohenzollerens and the Hapsburgs saw themselves as the logical and rightful future rulers.

The Hapsburg claim was based mostly on history. They had dominated the old Holy Roman Empire for Centuries.
The Hohenzolleren claim was more recent but they had the stronger economy and military by the later half of the 19th Century.

Then there was the religious divide. Other European nations had Jewish minorities and either Protestant, Roman Catholic, or Eastern Orthodox majorities with one or both of the other two in the minority but in each of the other European nations there was a clear and dominant majority. England was almost all Protestant with only a few jews and Catholics. Russia was almost all Eastern Orthodox with only a few Jewish, Protestants, and Catholics. Same for France, Spain, and Italy with their substantial Catholic majorities.

Germany was different. The Catholic/Protestant divide was close to even with a few Jews in the mix. This was probably mostly responsible for the lack of an eventual unification.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 28, 2022, 01:39:51 PM
Medina's new title is going to be "Smartest Guy in the Room".
LoL, thanks.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2022, 01:51:08 PM
The history of France is a bit of a mess also.  The French king was at war with the Burgudians for a while, as well as the English.  The Pope lived in Avignon over a century.  Alsace/Lorraine of course has switched, and today many place names there are  Teutonic.  Brittany is related to the term "Britain".  Normandy of course is where the old kings of England came from, and the "Nor" means "north" because it was settled by Danes etc.  Belgium has parts that are French speaking and parts where that is eschewed and they speak Flemish.  My notion before I got into reading all this was these countries had been sort of like they are for centuries.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 28, 2022, 01:54:14 PM
  • Most of the rest of the European peoples had already formed nation states years earlier.  England, France, and Russia had existed for centuries by the time Wilhelm I was crowned Emperor of Germany.  Thus, those other nations had already had the opportunity to lay claim to border areas and to acquire foreign colonies while Germany had not. 
  • The German people still were not actually united anywhere near to the degree that the English, French, and Russians were.  Austria was still independent of Germany as part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire and there were also a lot of ethnically German people living in other parts of the Austro-Hungarian Empire outside of Austria and in areas even beyond the Austro-Hungarian Empire. 
Prolly why half the Tuetonic types Germans,Swiss,Austrians,Danes,Dutch up and moved here.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2022, 02:08:09 PM
19th century Europe was not a pleasant place for the lower classes, and most folks were just that.  It is amazing to me how so many uprooted from family, tradition, launguage, and came here.

I was reading about how the Chinese came over in numbers to build the RR, though quite a few were already here because of gold etc.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 28, 2022, 02:18:18 PM
Tough Mofo's - they had to be
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2022, 02:26:39 PM
Yeah, I really marvel at what folks managed back in the day, and of course many of them didn't make it.

My Dad was born in a house with no electricity, no running water, candles, dirt roads, horse drawn everything pretty much.  Maybe there were a few tractors around, maybe.

His early life was hardly different from 1,000 AD.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 28, 2022, 03:16:17 PM
Sort of the same here but at least they had some power equipment.Back in the day my dad started out shoveling coal in the resident furnace bins in the cold months and ICe in in the warm months,drove taxi,worked in a meat house.Worked with tinners for a while making duct work/flashing also poured cement for a while.Tried roofing but those old 3 stories were a little too high and the slate roofs helped his decision.No wonder he drank a lot of Beer
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2022, 03:20:54 PM
My Dad's Mom moved them to Demorest at some point because she wanted her kids to go to college, and three of four did.  My own mom called her the most impressive woman she'd ever met.  They were dirt poor, literally, and she saw education as a way up and out.  My Dad had a white collar job with the State after being a teacher and principal for a few years.  Of course the war had a large impact on everything, my Dad had a Purple Heart from when his B-24 went down in the Pacific.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 28, 2022, 03:24:04 PM
19th century Europe was not a pleasant place for the lower classes, and most folks were just that.  It is amazing to me how so many uprooted from family, tradition, launguage, and came here.

I was reading about how the Chinese came over in numbers to build the RR, though quite a few were already here because of gold etc.
This has always amazed me too. Until recently, immigration meant leaving everything and everyone you had ever known and knowing that you would never see and only rarely if ever hear from them ever again.

My ancestors mostly came over from the British Isles before the Revolution. Back then it was a dangerous journey of many weeks across the Atlantic. Imagine making that journey knowing you wouldn't be able to go back even for your parents' funerals or ever see your parents, siblings, cousins or other relatives again.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 28, 2022, 03:25:31 PM
My Dad's Mom moved them to Demorest at some point because she wanted her kids to go to college, and three of four did.  My own mom called her the most impressive woman she'd ever met.  They were dirt poor, literally, and she saw education as a way up and out.  My Dad had a white collar job with the State after being a teacher and principal for a few years.  Of course the war had a large impact on everything, my Dad had a Purple Heart from when his B-24 went down in the Pacific.
Do you mind sharing when/where in the Pacific?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2022, 03:34:01 PM
He was a radar operator on a B-24, 858th Squadron, "The Snoopers".  They flew off Guadalcanal initially, I think the doomed flight was off New Georgia.  I have the official report somewhere of the crash, my Dad said it was wrong for various reasons.  Three men survived out of ten.  My Dad thinks the radar dome hit the water and broke the plane open and he floated out, he was unconscious and injured.  The copilot went through the windshield and the flight engineer apparently followed him and kept them afloat.  They were picked up by a US destroyer the next morning.  I have this book.

(https://i.imgur.com/W6Qjcgd.png)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2022, 03:41:09 PM
This was the crew:

(https://i.imgur.com/dR7zY9d.png)

There is a shirt hanging off the plane because that is a radar antenna and could not be photographed.  My Dad is first row right.  I don't think this is the plane that crashed.  They had a lot of mechanical issues with the turbosuperchargers.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 28, 2022, 04:25:39 PM
Wow, thank you for sharing. 

I'm down to only knowing one WWII vet. When I was a kid I knew a slew of them but they're dying off and only a few remain.

The funny thing is that the one I know that is still alive is neither a relatively young WWII guy nor is he in bad health.

Side note, I knew very well a guy who graduated HS in 1945 and called himself a WWII Veteran in name only. By the time he finished HS Hitler was dead and the war in Europe was over. He joined the Navy because, in his telling, they were the ones taking the war to the Japanese and he wanted to be involved. He was still stateside, learning to be a tailgunner in an Avenger (Carrier based Torpode Bomber) when the A-Bombs were dropped and Japan surrendered. He ended up deploying as part of the first air wing assigned to the brand new USS Midway. He died a few years ago.

Back to the guy still alive. He was supposed to graduate HS in June, 1942 but after the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor* he managed an early graduation and joined the Navy in early 1942. He was a crewman on blimps flying out of South America looking for U-boats. Postwar he became a fighter pilot and ultimate served in three branches of the military:

So anyway, this guy is now 98 years old. I see him every Thursday for lunch (Kiwanis Club). He drives himself and walks in on his own, no help, no walker, no wheelchair. It gets better. He only gave up his private pilot license a few years ago because no insurance company would insure a 90+ year old pilot. It gets better. I mentioned that he drives himself to our weekly meetings. In the summers up until two years ago he rode his Honda Shadow to our meetings every week. Seriously, 95 year old guy cruising into our meeting on a motorcycle. 


Dude is 98, if you met him tomorrow you'd probably guess 72 and think that he might have served in Vietnam but that he was a toddler during Korea and born after WWII.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 28, 2022, 04:27:25 PM
*yes, I know who bombed Pearl Harbor, I just never pass up an opportunity to share this:

https://youtu.be/V8lT1o0sDwI
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2022, 04:31:52 PM
I am in possession of two Purple Hearts, and of course I was never in the military.  One was my Dad's, one my son's.  Some of you likely have seen a documentary about my son's unit.  I remain in contact with many of those Marines today.  

Watch Combat Diary The Marines of Lima Company. - Bing video (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=combat+diary+lima+company&qpvt=combat+diary+lima+company&view=detail&mid=66825BA0A0FD8532960F66825BA0A0FD8532960F&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dcombat%2Bdiary%2Blima%2Bcompany%26qpvt%3Dcombat%2Bdiary%2Blima%2Bcompany%26FORM%3DVDRE)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on October 28, 2022, 06:03:52 PM
As always, I'm so sorry for your loss, and I thank your son for his service and your family for it sacrifice.

Your dad too, of course, although I don't know his story.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 28, 2022, 06:16:52 PM
My Dad's Mom moved them to Demorest at some point because she wanted her kids to go to college, and three of four did.  My own mom called her the most impressive woman she'd ever met.  They were dirt poor, literally, and she saw education as a way up and out.  My Dad had a white collar job with the State after being a teacher and principal for a few years.  Of course the war had a large impact on everything, my Dad had a Purple Heart from when his B-24 went down in the Pacific.
I forgot if they got shot down or a mechanical problem.Very fortunate to be found in such a vast area w/o GPS or other modern honing devices
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 28, 2022, 06:44:45 PM
He was a radar operator on a B-24, 858th Squadron, "The Snoopers".  They flew off Guadalcanal initially, I think the doomed flight was off New Georgia.  I have the official report somewhere of the crash, my Dad said it was wrong for various reasons.  Three men survived out of ten.  My Dad thinks the radar dome hit the water and broke the plane open and he floated out, he was unconscious and injured.  The copilot went through the windshield and the flight engineer apparently followed him and kept them afloat.  They were picked up by a US destroyer the next morning.  I have this book.
There is a guy on youtube named Indie neidel.If you hit on the Worl War Two ✔ under the screen you can back track the war chronologically week by week.It is absolutely how astounding how the Battle of  Guadalcanal was in all facets.Sea/Air/Land the IJF were fanatical.Seemingly every damn day there were casualties,Aerial combat,ships sunk by subs,subs sunk by mines. Snipers,bonzai charges,flame throwers,neither side giving in & taking no quarter.Naval patrols bumping into each other because of the thousands of islands that were both a blessing and a curse.And I'm not being overly patriotic saying that no other nation(Russia/GB/Germany) could have taken them on in all 3 phases

https://www.youtube.com/c/WorldWarTwo
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 28, 2022, 08:42:15 PM
As always, I'm so sorry for your loss, and I thank your son for his service and your family for it sacrifice.

Your dad too, of course, although I don't know his story.
Agreed!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on October 28, 2022, 10:11:35 PM
As always, I'm so sorry for your loss, and I thank your son for his service and your family for it sacrifice.

Your dad too, of course, although I don't know his story.
I must’ve missed this over the years I’ve posted here. Likewise I’m sorry for your loss and thank your family for their sacrifice. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 29, 2022, 08:10:14 AM
By about 3,000 B.C., almost every weaving technique known today had been invented by the Peruvians.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 29, 2022, 08:53:10 AM
Early in WWII in the Pacific Theater the Japanese Zero was vastly superior to anything the USA had flying.As they had already been fighting in China for a while and we were coming out of the Depression and weren't spending/developing any war related hardware .Any way some Naval Airman invented "the Weave" where they'd criss-cross each other and shoot any Zeros trailing the other pilot. This formation had the guys name but I don't recall it
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 29, 2022, 08:54:15 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Suez Canal Crisis Begins (1956)
After Britain and the US withdrew their financial pledges to help Egypt build the Aswan High Dam, Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser nationalized the Suez Canal, angering Britain and France, which had direct financial stakes in the canal. A joint invasion of Egypt ensued, but UN intervention led to an armistice in November. The canal, blocked for months due to damage, reopened in 1957.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 29, 2022, 09:15:38 AM
John Thach.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 29, 2022, 09:32:42 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/iS47j8y.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 29, 2022, 10:04:26 AM
This was the crew:

(https://i.imgur.com/dR7zY9d.png)

There is a shirt hanging off the plane because that is a radar antenna and could not be photographed.  My Dad is first row right.  I don't think this is the plane that crashed.  They had a lot of mechanical issues with the turbosuperchargers.


Notice how trim people were back then,no love handles or double chins,prolly from fighting and working their arses off
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 29, 2022, 10:18:15 AM
They also were young, my Dad was oldest of that group.  This is from 1943-44, so he was 26-27.  And of course the chow probably was somewhat lacking, and they all smoked pretty heavily.

My Dad went to a pipe in about 1960 and then quit a few years later.  He passed on at 93, as did my Mom.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 29, 2022, 10:36:02 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/2vjtulP.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 29, 2022, 11:54:00 AM
That's impressive
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 29, 2022, 12:37:42 PM
Early in WWII in the Pacific Theater the Japanese Zero was vastly superior to anything the USA had flying.As they had already been fighting in China for a while and we were coming out of the Depression and weren't spending/developing any war related hardware .Any way some Naval Airman invented "the Weave" where they'd criss-cross each other and shoot any Zeros trailing the other pilot. This formation had the guys name but I don't recall it
Thatch
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 29, 2022, 12:38:26 PM
John Thach.
Sorry, answered before I checked. You already had it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 29, 2022, 12:54:20 PM
Early in WWII in the Pacific Theater the Japanese Zero was vastly superior to anything the USA had flying.As they had already been fighting in China for a while and we were coming out of the Depression and weren't spending/developing any war related hardware .Any way some Naval Airman invented "the Weave" where they'd criss-cross each other and shoot any Zeros trailing the other pilot. This formation had the guys name but I don't recall it
The Zero was superior at some things but it is an overstatement to say that it was "vastly superior".

The Zero was designed to maximize maneuverability and range so it was very good at those things but there were tradeoffs. It was not armored anywhere near to degree that American fighters were. Also, the lightweight construction resulted in a flimsy plane that couldn't match American fighters in a dive.

Early in the war some American pilots tried to dogfight with Zeros and those American pilots were mostly shot down because the Zero was a vastly superior dogfighter.

Later, American Pilots learned to use their fighters' relative superiorities to their advantage. P38 pilots, for example, learned that while trying to dogfight with a Zero was nearly suicidal, their machines were much faster and it didn't take much to knock down a Zero so the tactic they learned was to keep the throttle wide open and try to hit Zeros during high speed passes.

Thatch's weave was another highly successful tactic. It drew a trailing Zero through the guns gunsites of the wingman.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 29, 2022, 01:12:48 PM
A great example of design trade-offs is self-sealing tanks. Most people know that the Zero didn't have them, a lot of people don't know why.

For years I just assumed that the Japanese lacked either the technology or the raw materials to make self-sealing tanks. Nope. They knew how and they had the raw materials. 

The Japanese chose not to use self-sealing tanks because the rubber bladder that created a self-sealing tank took up space and thus reduced fuel capacity which in turn reduced range. The Japanese chose to prioritize range over survivability. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 30, 2022, 08:02:21 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/GlXAx5J.png)

1675, Leibniz
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 30, 2022, 08:55:44 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
The Rumble in the Jungle (1974)
The "Rumble in the Jungle" pitted boxer Muhammad Ali against heavyweight champion George Foreman in Zaire—now the Democratic Republic of the Congo. The match is remembered for Ali's incredible performance in regaining the heavyweight title. Surrounded by spellbound fans, he used a strategy later dubbed the "rope-a-dope" to tire Foreman before winning in the eighth round. This fight was Don King's first major venture as a professional boxing promoter.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 30, 2022, 09:41:19 AM
The Convair X-6 was a proposed experimental aircraft project to develop and evaluate a nuclear-powered jet aircraft. The project was to use a Convair B-36 bomber as a testbed aircraft, and though one NB-36H was modified during the early stages of the project, the program was canceled before the actual X-6 and its nuclear reactor engines were completed. The X-6 was part of a larger series of programs, costing US$7 billion in all, that ran from 1946 through 1961. Because such an aircraft's range would not have been limited by liquid jet fuel, it was theorized that nuclear-powered strategic bombers would be able to stay airborne for weeks at a time

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2022, 09:32:00 AM
Halloween is a holiday celebrated each year on October 31, and Halloween 2021 will occur on Sunday, October 31. The tradition originated with the ancient Celtic festival of Samhain, when people would light bonfires and wear costumes to ward off ghosts.


The first Jack O’Lanterns were actually made from turnips.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2022, 09:44:19 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Battle of Britain Is Won (1940)
The Battle of Britain was the first major German failure in World War II. The Royal Air Force (RAF), outgunned and outmanned, nevertheless defeated the German Luftwaffe and thwarted Hitler's plan for an amphibious invasion, which he had hoped would end the war quickly. The event was not only a testament to the courage of British pilots, but it also marked the first time a major battle was fought entirely in the air and featured the first use of radar in battle.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 31, 2022, 10:18:03 AM
A great example of design trade-offs is self-sealing tanks. Most people know that the Zero didn't have them, a lot of people don't know why.
Fire supression systems aboard the Yorktown and other new vessels kept them from getting sunk.When the japanese bombed it a 2nd time they thought it was another ship as they didn't think anything could take that pounding.It still wasn't sunk after the 2nd bombing and was finally sent to the bottom by a subs torpedo
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 31, 2022, 10:21:07 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

The Battle of Britain Is Won (1940)
The Battle of Britain was the first major German failure in World War II. The Royal Air Force (RAF), outgunned and outmanned, nevertheless defeated the German Luftwaffe and thwarted Hitler's plan for an amphibious invasion, which he had hoped would end the war quickly. The event was not only a testament to the courage of British pilots, but it also marked the first time a major battle was fought entirely in the air and featured the first use of radar in battle.
Goring was an idiot.The Luftwaffe was getting the upper hand then he started directing bombing of civilian targets.Had the Gerries stuck to radar installations it could have been game - set - match
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 31, 2022, 10:45:57 AM
I think Hitler couldn't believe GB would hold out.  He was offering relatively generous terms, he didn't want to invade GB, and waited way too late to even start planning.  Realistically, most leaders of GB at the time would have caved and taken the terms.  One can imagine what would have ensued, the Wehrmacht would have been able to push most of its force East for the attack on the SU and likely had some level of trade now with GB and perhaps even us.  

I see it as perhaps the central key to the war's outcome, Churchill would not cave.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 31, 2022, 10:56:16 AM
Fire supression systems aboard the Yorktown and other new vessels kept them from getting sunk.When the japanese bombed it a 2nd time they thought it was another ship as they didn't think anything could take that pounding.It still wasn't sunk after the 2nd bombing and was finally sent to the bottom by a subs torpedo
This is a good point. The Japanese damage control was pathetic compared to the US. Compare the pounding that Yorktown took before sinking to the few hits each that doomed the four Japanese CV's lost off Midway.

Ultimately, as I've studied the war in the Pacific I've come to the conclusion that what happened at Midway wasn't a Miracle, it was simply the result of conditions. Japanese damage control was atrocious and that was bound to bite them eventually. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 31, 2022, 11:12:09 AM
US carriers would flush their fuel lines with nitrogen before battle, the Japanese didn't.  Another factor later on is some Japanese ships were running on raw petroleum unrefined, which would include a lot of very volatile light compounds prone to explosions.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 01, 2022, 06:34:27 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Arecibo Observatory Opens (1963)
Located near Arecibo, Puerto Rico, the Arecibo Observatory is the site of the world's largest single-aperture telescope. The telescope dish, built into a natural limestone bowl, measures an astonishing 1,000 feet (305 m) in diameter. It is used in radar studies of comets and asteroids, as well as in radio astronomy, to detect and analyze radio waves from space.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 02, 2022, 08:15:38 AM
11/02/1948

(https://i.imgur.com/lMVrfov.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 02, 2022, 08:39:19 AM
fake news
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2022, 09:00:29 AM
California gold panners circa 1860:

(https://i.imgur.com/xTaagqz.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2022, 09:07:20 AM
About an hour north of me is a small town called Dahlonega which was the site of the first gold rush in the US.  A US Mint was established there.  The town was basically drying up when they capitalized on the gold heritage and revived the downtown square, which has the usual antique shops, restaurants, etc.  The old courthouse is now the gold museum and pretty interesting.  The GA Capitol dome if coated with 43 ounces of gold from north GA.

How the dome got its gold – SaportaReport (https://saportareport.com/dome-got-gold/archived-columnists/jamils-georgia/nge/)


(https://i.imgur.com/L5pUca5.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 02, 2022, 10:52:04 AM
John Thach.
He also devised what was called "The Big Blue Blanket" toward the end of the war.

This was a response to the threat posed by the Kamikaze attacks.

Thatch's Big Blue Blanket got it's name from the blue painted Hellcats and Corsairs that were responsible for defending the fleet.

Thatch's plan involved positioning Destroyers (DD's) and Destroyer Escorts (DE's) up to 50 miles or more out from the Carriers (CV's). These late-war, radar-equipped DD's and DE's would then report contacts back to Fighter Direction officers who vectored Hellcats and Corsairs out to destroy enemy planes before they got anywhere near the high-value Carriers, Battleships, and Cruisers.

Thatch's design also substantially increased the number of fighters used for Combat Air Patrol (CAP) and specified that when approaching land targets, US fighters were to be stationed over known airfields to prevent enemy planes from even getting airborne.

This did put the DD's and DE's at considerable risk of course but they were protected to the extent possible by the CAP. Also, they were smaller, faster, and more maneuverable than large capital ships so they were harder for enemies to hit. Finally, even if they were hit, from the perspective of the USN it was obviously preferable to have a cheap, easily replaced, and small-crew DD or DE sunk or damaged than to lose use of a Carrier.

Late in the war, to get to an American Carrier a Kamikaze had to get past:

The Kamikazes were undoubtedly horrifying but the vast majority were shot down miles away from the core of the US fleet before even seeing let alone hitting any large American ships.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2022, 10:55:27 AM
Yup, the Small Boys paid a heavy price because the poorly trained Japanese pilots would think they were capital ships and attack them, and of course they were lightly armored at best.  A DE (Destroyer Escort) or Corvette in Brit parlance was an underpowered smaller destroyer mostly intended for escort duty of convoys.

That 5" 38 caliber dual purpose mount was a very useful thing.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 02, 2022, 11:10:58 AM
Yup, the Small Boys paid a heavy price because the poorly trained Japanese pilots would think they were capital ships and attack them, and of course they were lightly armored at best.  A DE (Destroyer Escort) or Corvette in Brit parlance was an underpowered smaller destroyer mostly intended for escort duty of convoys.

That 5" 38 caliber dual purpose mount was a very useful thing.
Not too far from you at Patriots Point SC where the USS Yorktown is on display they also have the USS Laffey. Laffey suffered a horrendous battle with attacking Kamikazes off Okinawa and somehow survived. If you haven't been, I highly recommend visiting. 

Tip for visiting Patriots Point / Charleston. My wife and I stayed via AirBnB on a boat docked at Charleston Harbor Resort and Marina. It was actually cheaper than a room in the resort AND we had resort privileges anyway AND the boat we stayed on was only a short walk down the dock from the Yorktown and Laffey. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2022, 11:16:15 AM
I've been there a long while back.  I am trying not to drag my wife to too many historical sites these days.  I've overdone it a bit.

We're signed up to visit Petra and Luxor etc. in Feb/Mar. though, she wants to visit Jerusalem but there is as yet not offering.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 02, 2022, 11:19:53 AM
From wiki (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Laffey_(DD-724)) on the Kamikaze attack that Laffey survived:

Laffey survived despite being badly damaged by four bombs, six kamikaze crashes, and strafing fire that killed 32 and wounded 71. Assistant communications officer Lieutenant Frank Manson asked Captain Becton if he thought they'd have to abandon ship, to which he snapped, "No! I'll never abandon ship as long as a single gun will fire." Becton did not hear a nearby lookout softly say, "And if I can find one man to fire it."[ (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Laffey_(DD-724)#cite_note-6)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 03, 2022, 12:46:35 PM
Much of what Westerners know about Field Marshal Mikhail Illarionovich Golenischev-Kutuzov derives from Leo Tolstoy, who depicted the “scarred and puffy” commander-in-chief of the Russian armies during Napoleon’s retreat from Moscow as pensive, overweight and morose. The real Kutuzov, as the eminent Napoleonic Wars scholar Alexander Mikaberidze reveals, was certainly pensive, if only because he was a profound military thinker and strategist; undoubtedly overweight and wheezy by the time he took up overall command aged 65; but far from morose, lavishing his affection on five beloved daughters, and even a 14-year-old mistress.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/the-fat-elderly-one-eyed-general-who-outwitted-napoleon-and-was-immortalised-in-war-and-peace/ar-AA13EtjT?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=f59d200bf09a44519d3977d24e6880b5 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/the-fat-elderly-one-eyed-general-who-outwitted-napoleon-and-was-immortalised-in-war-and-peace/ar-AA13EtjT?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=f59d200bf09a44519d3977d24e6880b5)

Kutuzov was Russia’s sixth most senior general when Napoleon crossed the River Niemen into the Russian empire on June 24 1812. An aristocrat who had won a war and signed a peace with the Ottomans, he had been a war hero ever since he had survived being shot in the head, not once but twice (blinding him in one eye). This superb biography portrays Kutuzov as “charming, intelligent, calculating, artful” – but, crucially, not the author of the scorched earth retreat-and-wait strategy that was to rout Napoleon’s 600,000-strong army.

That accolade belonged to Russia’s Scottish- and German-born minister of war General Barclay de Tolly, who recognized that the Russian army of a quarter of a million men was in constant danger of being out-manoeuvred and enveloped by the French Grande Armée, and instead it should refuse battle and withdraw eastwards into the endless territory of Russia, drawing Napoleon further and further into Russia until lines of communication were overextended and winter descended.

This pragmatic but unheroic strategy so offended Russian sensibilities that Tolly finally had to be sacked by Tsar Alexander I and a native Russian, Kutuzov, promoted, despite the Tsar’s dislike of him. “The public wanted his appointment, so I appointed him,” the Tsar told an aide de camp. “As for myself, I wash my hands of it all.”


Although Kutuzov did fight the Battle of Borodino on September 7 1812 – the biggest single-day bloodbath in world history until the Great War – he was unable to prevent the Napoleonic juggernaut reaching Moscow. Thereafter, his cautious strategy, and the Tsar’s resolute refusal to enter into negotiations with Napoleon, ensured that the Russian army could shepherd the French out of Russia once the blizzards descended, attacking hard when opportunities presented themselves. The Grande Armée recrossed the Niemen in December with only 93,000 survivors. Although Kutuzov died in April 1813, he had laid the groundwork for the Russian entry into Paris the following year.

Kutuzov is hero-worshipped by Russians today, who at the millennium voted him the greatest Russian of the 19th century. Mikaberidze, who has worked extensively in the Russian, French and Lithuanian archives for this book, rightly considers him underappreciated in the West, despite Kutuzov’s doing more to break Napoleon even than the Duke of Wellington, Field Marshal Blücher of Prussia or the Austrian commander Karl von Schwarzenberg.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 03, 2022, 05:01:46 PM
Understanding John Thatch's "Big Blue Blanket":

Even with radar late in the war a Carrier likely wouldn't spot an approaching enemy until that intruder reached say 50mi out from the fleet.  This Kamikaze intending to destroy your carrier is likely travelling at up to 300mph which means it will cover that 50mi in roughly 10 minutes.  A Hellcat or Corsair in the hanger at this point is utterly worthless.  That plane couldn't get fueled, armed, up to the flight deck, warmed up, and off the carrier before the Kamikaze arrived.  

Even if the Hellcat or Corsair was fully armed, fully fueled, and warmed up on the flight deck, it takes 8-10 minutes for a Corsair to climb to 20,000' depending on the load-out.  Since you'd want maximum fuel and ammunition you are probably closer to the 10 minute mark which means you'd get to 20,000 at about the same time the Kamikaze crashed into your ship.  

Ok, so what if the Corsair or Hellcat was already flying 20,000' over the carrier when the intruder was identified?  Well top speed for a Hellcat or Corsair is around 400mph so if it was immediately given the correct compass heading and altitude, it could head toward the intruder at a closing speed of roughly 700mph.  That will get you to the Kamikaze in about four and a half minutes at roughly 25-30 mi from the carrier.  In theory you could shoot the intruder down head-on but this is an INCREDIBLY difficult shot.  The closing speed is 700 mph.  
700*5,280 = 3,696,000 feet per hour
3,696,000/60 = 61,600 feet per minute
61,600/60 = 1,027 feet per second.  

The M2 Browning .50 cal machine guns in the Corsairs and Hellcats have an effective range of about 6,000' so you have roughly six seconds from the time the intruder is in range until you crash into them.  You can't fire for the full six seconds because you have to pull up or else you'll crash into them and you have zero chance of surviving a 700mph collision at 20,000' so you have AT MOST approximately five seconds of firing time.  That would be plenty if you were firing at some stationary target but you aren't, everything is moving.  You and they are moving at a combined 1,027 feet per second and remember that this isn't a ground or sea based target that moves in two dimensions, this is an airborne target that moves in three dimensions as do you.  

Actually hitting an approaching Kamikaze with a head-on shot in this situation would be miraculous.  

Alternatively, you could loop around behind the intruder and approach them from astern but that turn takes time.  You have to slow your aircraft down enough to make the turn and you have to line it up right and then once you get behind them you have to catch up to within no more than 6,000' before you can start firing effectively.  Firing earlier may sound like a good idea but it isn't.  Your .50 cal machine guns fire 450-600 rounds per minute and you only carry 400 rounds per gun so you have less than 60 seconds of firing time.  Firing "prayer" shots from from the 24,000' maximum range of the gun accomplishes nothing but to expend your ammunition while you are too far away such that when you do get close you will not have any left.  

By the time you get turned around and lined up behind the intruder you are probably no more than 20 mi from the Carrier and that is if everything went right.  They are still closing on the Carrier at 300 mph (5 mi/minute) so you have AT MOST four minutes to shoot them down and the last minute or more of that you'll be chasing them into your own ships' AA fire which is just as effective at shooting down Hellcats and Corsairs as it is at shooting down Zeros so you'll be at SUBSTANTIAL risk of getting downed by "friendly fire" if you don't splash the intruder before you get close.  

Realistically you only get one or maybe two passes at the intruder.  You'll be trained to keep your own throttle to the firewall in order to avoid being shot down by any lurking enemy fighters so slowing down to their 300 mph speed to get more shots simply isn't an option.  Your closing speed will be at least 100 mph or about 150' per second so you'll have something like 40 seconds overall but you probably don't want to open fire until you are closer and you have to pull up to avoid crashing into the intruder so this still isn't easy.  Then, if you miss, you have to either dive or climb away, loop around, and try again with very limited ammunition.  

Corsairs and Hellcats are also armed with a couple of 20mm cannons but those have an even higher rate of fire and less ammunition than the .50cal guns so they generally aren't engaged until you are pretty sure you are on target.  

Placing DD's and DE's 50 miles from the Carriers and protective Combat Air Patrol (CAP) fighters at long range as well moved all these calculations an extra 50 miles away from the Carriers which gave the fighters more time to get their shots lined up which saved a lot of lives on the carriers but as @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) pointed out, the DD's and DE's sometimes paid a VERY high price for that.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 03, 2022, 09:05:54 PM
Did you do all of that finding/figuring? If so impressive
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 04, 2022, 09:30:54 AM
November 4, 1980.

Ronald Reagan elected POTUS.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 04, 2022, 09:32:38 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Sack of Antwerp (1576)
In the mid-16th century, Antwerp, Belgium, was Europe's chief commercial and financial center. Actively involved in trade with Spain, Portugal, the Americas, and the East, Antwerp's ports received spices, gold, and other luxury goods. The city was also home to a flourishing diamond industry. However, Antwerp's fortunes changed in 1576 when Spanish troops sacked the city and killed about 6,000 of its inhabitants in what became known as the "Spanish fury."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 04, 2022, 09:36:19 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

The Sack of Antwerp (1576)
However, Antwerp's fortunes changed in 1576 when Spanish troops sacked the city raped and killed about 6,000 of its inhabitants in what became known as the "Spanish Fly."
FIFY
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 04, 2022, 10:24:30 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/XoCiSgX.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 04, 2022, 10:31:38 AM
Think you could get today's tenderfoots to try that?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 04, 2022, 10:37:57 AM
It was 660 feet thick at its base, thought to be over built by nearly half.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 04, 2022, 10:41:39 AM
Things keep going the way they are it won't be needed,hopefully that turns around
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 04, 2022, 10:44:32 AM
Yeah, we had a years long drought here a few years back, much gnashing of teeth about water.  Then the Heaven's opened and the reservoirs filled back up and then some.  I assume we'll see a drought again in a few years.  And the population of course continues to grow in this area.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 04, 2022, 12:16:42 PM
Great Lakes aren't going anywhere-at least for a while.Unless a cataclysmic earth quake re-routes everything - which would piss Badgerfan off
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 04, 2022, 12:35:22 PM
We could build dams
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 04, 2022, 01:31:55 PM
Yep, build dams, rebuild cities below sea level, overpopulate areas in the desert.....all great ideas. 
Anything but live in accordance with nature. 
That's fer suckers!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 04, 2022, 03:14:55 PM
Yep, build dams, rebuild cities below sea level, overpopulate areas in the desert.....all great ideas. 
Anything but live in accordance with nature. 
That's fer suckers!
You trying to get me started?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 05, 2022, 10:48:51 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/aH5IulQ.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 05, 2022, 10:56:29 AM
Should be a longer line than that. ;D

Was that one of towns along the Mississippi?From north to south back in day it wasn't uncommon.Still do but they call it something else to skirt the rules
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 05, 2022, 11:46:57 AM
Did you do all of that finding/figuring? If so impressive
I've read it all elsewhere but couldn't put my hands on it so yeah, I did the calculations. 
Thanks.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Hawkinole on November 06, 2022, 01:51:51 AM
On this date (November 6) in 1860 Abraham Lincoln is elected 16th president of the United States, with 39.8% of the vote defeating John Breckenridge, John Bell, and Stephen Douglas. Douglas was 2nd with 29.5% of the popular vote.

Lincoln was 2nd at the 1st ballot of the Republican party convention, which required 3 ballots before he was party nominee.

Lincoln garnered 180 out of 303 electoral votes to win in 1860.

In 1864 at the Republican nominating convention Lincoln garnered 480 votes, and U.S. Grant 22, on the 1st ballot, and then on the 2nd ballot it was Lincoln unanimously.

In 1864 Lincoln garnered 55% of the popular vote vs. George McClellan with 45%, and the Electoral College was 212 - 21. I would guess there were not as many states in 1864, as in 1860.

Just think that in the 5-months after the 1864 election in which 45% voted against Lincoln events would move Lincoln to become our country's most beloved president, and yet 60.2% of the voters in 1860 supported another candidate, and 45% in 1864 supported another candidate, and that 45% doesn't include the nonvoters in the secessionist states.

Abraham Lincoln who led such a difficult life in the presidency was such an iconic president.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 08, 2022, 09:16:39 AM
Yale was named after Elihu Yale (1649-1721), a governor of the British East India Company who donated a crate of goods to the fledgling school.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 08, 2022, 09:17:23 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Wilhelm Röntgen Discovers X-Rays (1895)
In 1895, Röntgen, a German physicist, discovered rays that did not exhibit properties such as reflection or refraction. Because of their mysterious nature, he called them X-rays. His discovery, which gave medicine a critical view inside the body and allowed bones to be photographed, remains a valuable diagnostic tool. Röntgen's breakthrough earned him the first Nobel Prize for Physics in 1901. One of the first X-ray photographs he took was of his wife's hand.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 08, 2022, 09:19:41 AM
Wonder how long his wife lived
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 09, 2022, 09:19:33 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Hermann Weyl (1885)
A contemporary and onetime colleague of Albert Einstein, Hermann Weyl was a German mathematician whose work on the topics of space, time, matter, philosophy, and symmetry, to name a few, has earned him consideration as one of the most influential 20th-century mathematicians. His research advanced not only the field of mathematics but of theoretical physics as well.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 09, 2022, 09:20:03 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Napoleon Bonaparte Leads the Coup of 18 Brumaire (1799)
The Coup of 18 Brumaire, widely considered the effective end of the French Revolution, made way for the despotism of Napoleon. Planned by French statesmen Emmanuel Sieyès and Charles Maurice de Talleyrand, the coup allowed Napoleon to overthrow the weakened government of the Directory and replace it with the Consulate. The Consulate's executive branch consisted of three consuls, but Napoleon—as first consul—wielded all real power and soon became emperor.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 10, 2022, 09:24:03 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Martin Luther (1483)
The teachings of Luther, a German theologian, widely disseminated by the then-novel printing press, sparked the Protestant Reformation. Luther denied the authority of the priesthood to mediate between the individual and God and rejected the sacraments except as aids to faith. His works were condemned by the pope and banned by the Holy Roman Emperor, but the Reformation soon swept across Europe, setting the stage for a century of religious war.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 10, 2022, 10:06:37 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY:

Martin Luther (1483)
The teachings of Luther, a German theologian, widely disseminated by the then-novel printing press, sparked the Protestant Reformation. Luther denied the authority of the priesthood to mediate between the individual and God and rejected the sacraments except as aids to faith. His works were condemned by the pope and banned by the Holy Roman Emperor, but the Reformation soon swept across Europe, setting the stage for a century of religious war.
One irony is that the two men most responsible for the Protestant Reformation (Henry VIII and Martin Luther) both thought of themselves as Catholics who were merely trying to correct the path of a Church that they saw as flawed, not trying to establish completely new churches. In spite of that, Henry's Church of England (Anglican Church or Episcopal Church in the US) and Martin's Luthern Church persist to this day.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 10, 2022, 10:10:50 AM
80 years ago today Operation Torch was in full swing.

Operation Torch was the Allied (US/British) Operation to capture Western North Africa. The troops landed were all Americans because there was significant ill will between the French and British stemming from Britain's attacks on the French fleet. 

It was thought/hoped that the Vichy French forces defending Casablanca and the rest of Morocco would be more likely to switch over to the Allied side if they were confronted with US rather than British invaders.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 10, 2022, 10:31:34 AM
At ten minutes after seven tonight (19:10 CST) it will have been 47 years since the last radio transmission was received from the Edmund Fitzgerald. 

Captain Jesse Cooper of the Arthur M. Anderson was 10 mi behind the Fitz and was assisting with navigation because Fitz' radar had been knocked out. 

At the conclusion of a radio conversation mostly about navigational issues, Captain Cooper on Anderson asked Captain Ernest McSorley aboard the Edmund Fitzgerald how he was making out with his problems. McSorley replied "We are holding our own."

Those were the last words heard from the Edmund Fitzgerald and shortly thereafter the ship disappeared from Anderson's radar. Cooper then radioed officials and said "I think we've lost the Fitz". 

Cooper was right. Fitzgerald and her 29 man crew were at the bottom of Lake Superior. 

Most if the crewmen were from Wisconsin and Ohio so . . .
We need the Badgers and Buckeyes to play on Saturday, November 8, 2025 and have a 50 year commemorative halftime show.

https://youtu.be/3VXY6tuZ5eU

https://youtu.be/hgI8bta-7aw

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: SFBadger96 on November 10, 2022, 01:27:34 PM
Today's birthday is the United States Marine Corps. That's not weird history (well, the founding is), but it's important. So there.

Happy birthday, Marines.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 10, 2022, 01:35:25 PM
247 years, correct?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 10, 2022, 01:42:03 PM
247 years, correct?
Yep, November 10, 1775.

The Country had a Marine Corps before they were a country.

I learned that young, dad was a Marine.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: SFBadger96 on November 10, 2022, 01:42:51 PM
Yup. Five months younger than the Army, but much better at celebrating its birthday. November 2025 will no doubt be a gas for the Devil Dogs.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 10, 2022, 09:59:38 PM
When Surrender Was Worse Than Death: 8 Realities about Life at Andersonville Prison During the Civil War

https://historycollection.com/american-pow-camps-death-camps-prisoners/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=HC7&utm_campaign=23851335530570727&utm_content=23851335529900727_23851335529030727 (https://historycollection.com/american-pow-camps-death-camps-prisoners/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=HC7&utm_campaign=23851335530570727&utm_content=23851335529900727_23851335529030727)

In the early months of the Civil War, soldiers of both sides who were unfortunate enough to be taken prisoner could look forward to a short captivity. Both armies, officered by men who had largely shared training and military tradition, practiced the 18th-century procedures of parole and exchange.

Prisoners were exchanged between the armies on a rank for rank basis – private for private, sergeant for sergeant, fifteen privates for one colonel, and so on – while officers were freely granted the freedom of the enemy camp (within limits) in exchange for their parole – a promise that they would not try to escape or act against the enemy until they were properly exchanged. It was not unusual of an evening to see captured Union officers playing cards or sharing whiskey with their Confederate counterparts.

This civility – the dying gasps of chivalrous behavior – did not last once Northern generals grasped the hard facts of the situation between North and South. Compared to the South, the North had vast resources of manpower, while lost Johnny Rebs could not be replaced. It cost the enemy food, clothing, shelter, and manpower to restrain prisoners, something the North could afford and the South could not.

Prisoner exchanges helped the South by returning trained veteran soldiers to their ranks. By the same logic, forcing the South to care for Union prisoners in their custody drained resources and manpower.


When the South began to treat captured Union black soldiers – they were referred to as Colored Troops in the parlance of the time – as escaped slaves rather than prisoners of war, the North finally broke existing agreements regarding prisoners and the development of prisoner of war camps for extended custody began in the warring states. In the North camps opened in Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania, New York, and elsewhere, often on the sites of former training camps for the steadily growing Union armies. Captured Confederate troops often found better rations and living conditions than they had experienced within the ranks of the dwindling Southern armies, at least until arriving at the prison camps.

In the South, Union troops held in Southern camps found somewhat different conditions. Many of the Southern camps were built near water which in the extended months of the Southern summer became mosquito-infested swamps, with attendant malaria spreading among the prisoners. Cholera and typhus were also rampant in some camps. The South had little food for its troops and less for its prisoners, a situation that worsened steadily as the war went on.

Camp Sumter (known in the North as Andersonville Prison) was opened in south central Georgia during the winter of 1864, and during its just over one year of operation held up to 45,000 Union prisoners. Of these, almost 13,000 died. Some deaths were from complications of battlefield wounds poorly treated, but most were from malnutrition leading to scurvy, dysentery, typhus, and other deadly diseases which today are easily controlled through proper diet and hygiene. The prisoners subsided largely on parched corn, chicory weed, and rarely, dried salted fish.

The main source of freshwater was Stockade Creek, which ran through the camp inside the fence line, and was unfortunately used by many men as both a washing place and a sewer, ensuring that the water further downstream but still within the camp was polluted. Warmth was provided by open firepits and a few scattered stoves, and while the camp was surrounded by forest little wood was provided to the prisoners, nor were they permitted to forage.

During wet months or following heavy summer rains, Stockade Creek turned a large portion of the enclosed grounds into bogs and swamp, infested with the impressively aggressive mosquitos and blackflies of the Deep South. Despite these and the diseases they carried, the majority of the deaths in the camp were from other causes, chiefly scorbutic dysentery (known as the bloody flux) a severe form of diarrhea caused by a shortage of vitamin C.

The majority of prisoners lived in thrown together hovels covered with scraps of blankets or rags, or else in the open air, as the construction of the planned wooden huts to house the prisoners were never completed.

Camp Sumter was commanded by Captain Heinrich Wirz – known as Henry Wirz – a Swiss-born former physician’s assistant who had worked as a plantation overseer and physician, caring for the health of his employer’s slaves, in Louisiana just before the war. He gained combat experience and a wound at the Battle of Seven Pines and later served as an emissary to Europe while an aide to General John Winder, who was in charge of prisoners of war. When the camp at Andersonville was established Wirz was assigned to command.

In fairness to Wirz, he immediately recognized the dire nature of the situation within Camp Sumter and petitioned his own government for aid in the form of food, medicines and other basic supplies. When the Confederate government denied his requests, Wirz, on his own initiative, selected five Union officers from the Camp rolls and sent them under a flag of truce to Union authorities, bearing with them a petition for aid written by the incarcerated prisoners.

The petition, received by the Union in July 1864, described the conditions of the camp and implored a resumption of the exchange program, which would set the prisoners free. Given the large number of Confederates held by the Union following the Gettysburg and Vicksburg campaigns, such an exchange, or any other aid, was deemed to be aiding the enemy. Grant denied the petition (at Lincoln’s direct request), rightly judging that the South needed the returned prisoners more than the North, although he deplored the conditions as described.

Wirz became to history a villain along the lines of the commandants of Japanese or Nazi prisoner of war camps, a symbol of monstrous cruelty to the victorious North, despite 145 witnesses (out of 160) testifying that they had never seen any act of cruelty performed by the camp commander. Others testified to his outright humanity, and the point was made at his trial for war crimes that the Union Naval blockade had been equally responsible, if not more so, for denying medical supplies and other materials to the prisoners in the camp. Nonetheless, Wirz was convicted of war crimes and executed for the same, one of the earlier examples of such a fate being imposed upon a vanquished enemy.


When Surrender Was Worse Than Death: 8 Realities about Life at Andersonville Prison During the Civil War
Escapees were often hunted down with dogs and men experienced in hunting escaped slaves. Library of Congress


Escapes and Resistance
Prisoners of war have immense amounts of time on their hands, a situation which all armies strive to avoid the creation of “busy work.” In the case of Camp Sumter, the prisoners were often too weak from the effects of near-starvation or the ravages of diarrhea to do anything but bask in their misery in the oppressive Georgia heat and humidity. Yet some intrepid souls, despite the threat of death, sought to escape the bounds of the camp and return to their units.

Escape was especially promising due to the fact that the enemy, and the grounds to be traversed on the way home, were populated with people who spoke the same language. In the growing confusion surrounding the nearing end of the war, it was possible for a soldier to escape and simply make it back home, rather than return to duty, and many tried. Success was fleeting.

Of the 351 escape attempts recorded by Confederates, 32 soldiers made it back to Union lines and rejoined their units. While this number does not take into account any escapees that simply returned home it does give an idea of the difficulties involved in not only clearing the camp but making it to the Union lines while suffering the effects of malnutrition. Many escapees undoubtedly died on the run, making up the discrepancy between Confederate records of those who slipped away and Union records of those who made it home.

The US Army retains the record of the 32 successful escapes from the camp, and occasional pertinent facts. For example, one such escape occurred when Nicholas Williams slipped away from the camp on the 1st of May, 1865 – three weeks after the surrender of Robert E. Lee and as the war, and the South, was dwindling down. By that time it was possible for a prisoner with the strength and inclination to simply walk away, as Williams did.

When Surrender Was Worse Than Death: 8 Realities about Life at Andersonville Prison During the Civil War
The Union’s Anaconda Plan blockaded the South into starvation – and Union prisoners along with it. Library of Congress

The Union Blockade
One of the primary strategies of the Civil War on the part of the Union was known as the Anaconda Plan. Proposed in the opening days of the war and strongly backed by Abraham Lincoln, the plan called for the powerful US Navy to blockade all Southern ports, seize New Orleans and the major cities on the Ohio and Mississippi, (Memphis, Vicksburg, Louisville and Cincinnati), and gradually starve the south.

As the war went on Cavalry raids by the ever more efficient Union horsemen destroyed the critical farmlands which were the only source of food to the Confederate troops, medicines were interdicted by Naval resources, and new clothing and blankets became scarce since the South lacked sufficient factories to produce the minimum needed.

Southern civilians suffered enormous privations. Southern troops in the field suffered even greater. Forced to live off of the land in war-ravaged Virginia and Tennessee, the Confederate armies found few crops and little livestock on which to subsist. By 1864, the Southern railway system, essential to moving what little supplies were available, was largely in the control of their enemies from the North. Into this cauldron of want, the North thrust the responsibility of caring for prisoners of war when the South could barely care for itself. The cancellation of any exchange program burdening the South with more mouths to feed ensured the suffering of the mouths placed in their care, a seemingly callous but militarily justifiable decision.

There is little doubt that the success of the Union strategy caused great suffering in the South, and by extension to those prisoners held by the South. This has often been cited as an example of Grant’s inhumanity and for his callous regard of casualties. Both arguments are unfair. The end of the prisoner exchange was decided well above Grant’s rank – today it would be said to be “above his paygrade” and occurred well before he was in charge of all Union armies. He did recognize the need for it, despite the hardship it caused, and like the good soldier he was he supported it publicly while lamenting it in the privacy of his personal diary.


The Sultana
After the surrender of Robert E. Lee and the Army of Northern Virginia, the Confederate government fled its capital of Richmond, Virginia and for the most part the Civil War was over, despite General Joseph Johnston’s army remaining defiantly in the field. Enterprising businessmen on both sides of the Mason-Dixon line began looking for ways to profit in the confusion, before military governments and martial law came to hamper private enterprise. Transporting former prisoners of war home was one such possibility. Parole camps were established near river ports, including Vicksburg, and prisoners were transferred from Southern camps such as Camp Sumter to the parole camps. Officially there was no government to which they could give their parole, but that was a minor difficulty when immediate profits were to be made.

From the parole camp many of the survivors of Camp Sumter, emaciated, sick and officially still members of the US Army, were readied for transportation north, via the steamboat Sultana on the Ohio River. Arrangements were made for the US government, through the Army’s quartermaster corps, to pay $5 per enlisted man transported and $10 per officer. Sultana was accordingly overloaded to the point of near swamping. Sultana had experienced problems with its boilers while en route to Vicksburg, but that did not stop its captain from loading his vessel with more than 1,900 “paroled” prisoners of war, along with crew members and at least 70 paying passengers who were no doubt displeased at the severely crowded conditions they found aboard.

For the next two days, Sultana struggled upriver against the spring floods, crippled by its failing boiler, vastly overloaded, and its crew hampered in their movements by the overcrowded conditions. When only a few miles north of Memphis during the early morning of April 27th the weakened boiler exploded, and the concussion caused the explosion of two others in short order. Sultana became a drifting, flaming, wreck overloaded with men weakened by their lengthy and debilitating captivity.

Although rescue operations on the busy river began almost immediately the combination of fire, the frigid water of the Mississippi in spring, and the weakness of many passengers made for a heavy death toll. About 760 survived. The official death count has never been confirmed, based in part on the number of additional passengers packed aboard beyond the official manifest in anticipation of collecting the princely sum of $5 per head.

When Surrender Was Worse Than Death: 8 Realities about Life at Andersonville Prison During the Civil War
The Raiders preyed upon the guards and fellow prisoners alike. There existence helped prompt the creation of a Code of Conduct for American servicemen following the war. New York Public Library

The Andersonville Raiders
There was no Code of Conduct for US Troops during the Civil War, a fact which vexed Abraham Lincoln, who pushed for the Army to adopt one. Since the idea of prisoner of war camps was a new one, the means by which existing military discipline could be carried through within the confines of a camp was unknown to American military science.

It became contingent upon the men themselves, through force of personality and physical prowess, to enforce some semblance of discipline. For most of the prisoners, life in Camp Sumter, as in other Southern prisons, soon disintegrated into Darwin’s as yet undefined method of natural selection.

Prisoners developed extensive social networks within the confines of the camp, often including the Confederate guards, who were essentially not much better off than their charges in terms of food and health. Food and tobacco became currency, as did clothing, blankets and most importantly of all, information regarding military and camp activities. The proximity of Sherman’s army and the range of his cavalry units was not lost on prisoners or guards, and attempts to reach them were frequent.

In this atmosphere, a group of prisoners emerged as the Andersonville Raiders, who used clubs, cooking knives and any weapons they could fabricate to rob and kill fellow prisoners, and if necessary intervening guards. A group soon formed in opposition which called themselves the Regulators, and which tried captured Raiders in Kangaroo courts before administering sentences which included death by hanging. The Confederate administrators were too weak to intervene with the breakdown of discipline, and Wirz’s recognition that the prisoners were, in fact, running the prison was one factor in his decision to send a deputation to the North to ask for assistance.

Notable Prisoners
On July 1, 1863, Newell Burch, serving with the 154th New York Volunteers, was captured near the town of Gettysburg, Pennsylvania. For the next few days, he was held behind the lines as Lee’s army and that of General George Meade flung themselves at each other in the greatest battle ever fought in North America. When the defeated Confederate Army decided to withdraw to Virginia Burch, with other prisoners, was offered in exchange. When the offer was rebuffed, he withdrew southward with the battered Confederate Army, reaching Richmond Virginia long before his comrades in the Union Army of the Potomac.

He was temporarily held in Richmond’s Belle Isle prison before being transferred to Camp Sumter, arriving in late winter of 1864. Burch survived the war and left a detailed diary of his experiences, including his experience in treating gangrene in other prisoners. By the time the war ended he had spent 21 months as a prisoner of war, the longest-tenured POW of the Civil War. Burch’s diary provides a great deal of information on the workings of both Belle Isle and Andersonville prisons, as well as the morale of the Army of Northern Virginia in the days following the Battle of Gettysburg.

Dorence Atwater was one of the first arrivals at Andersonville and was tasked by his captors with recording a list of all prisoners who died at the camp. Diligent in his work, Atwater kept a second copy for himself, which he kept hidden from his captors, having rightly concluded from the prevailing conditions in the camp that the original would never be seen by official Union eyes. Eventually, he recorded the names of over 13,000 Union prisoners and upon his departure from the camp he carried the list with him in his laundry bag.

After the war, Atwater’s list was instrumental in identifying many of the grave markers in the National Cemetery which grew out of the Camp Sumter graveyard. Eventually, the death list was presented to Horace Greeley, who ensured its publication in the New York Times, which prompted the until then lax federal government to publish an official copy.

Atwater eventually became United States Consul to Tahiti, and after marrying a Royal Princess of the Island he alternated his time between residences in Tahiti and San Francisco. He lived through the San Francisco Earthquake and Fire of 1906, although his home was destroyed, and eventually died in 1910, still in possession of the original list.

Andersonville was no worse than other camps
In Richmond, the Capital of the Confederacy, captured Union officers were confined within the walls of a former tobacco warehouse, three stories in height, and like most tobacco warehouses light and airy. In its early days as a prison, it was used to hold officers who were awaiting exchange, and courtesy visits from Confederate officers who were often former classmates of the imprisoned were commonplace.

As the war dragged on the number of prisoners increased, and insufficient sanitary facilities made themselves felt. Prison windows were barred rather than glazed, and exposure to Richmond’s chill and damp winters encouraged disease. The greatest problem, as at Andersonville and other camps in the South, was insufficient food, clothing and medicines, problems which also beset the Confederate Armies and population.

Northern Prisoners of War Camps did not face the problems of blockade and military defeat limiting their resources, but Southern prisoners of war often faced the same grim odds of survival as their counterparts in Southern camps. Camp Elmira, in New York, was on the site of a former Union Army training camp, with immediate access to two major northern railways. It was used as a prisoner of war camp from July 1864 until one year later, in 1865.

During that year of operation, 12,000 prisoners would be assigned to the camp which they dubbed “Hellmira” and almost 3,000 of them would perish to disease, malnutrition, exposure, and poor sanitation. A goodly amount of these deaths were retaliatory; Northern commanders, having heard of the harsh conditions faced by Union prisoners in camps such as Andersonville, were determined to match those conditions for Confederate prisoners of war.

The media of the day, mostly the New York newspapers, downplayed the conditions of the northern prisons, some of which were worse than Elmira, while exaggerating the suffering in Southern prisons (if such were possible). The fact is that conditions on either side were virtually the same, but the South shared its privations with the general population and the army. On the other hand, the prosperous North fielded a well-fed and equipped army and supported a booming wartime economy as the prisoners in its care suffered from appalling conditions. The mortality rate for Camp Elmira was 24.5%, for Camp Sumter 28.7%. The death rates for other camps on both sides were similar. In short, the life expectancy of a prisoner of war during the Civil War was often worse than that of a front-line soldier.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2022, 09:21:46 AM
Campbell's Soup

After completing his doctorate in Germany, John T. Dorrance declined prestigious academic posts to work in his uncle's canning factory—the Joseph Campbell Preserve Company—in Camden, New Jersey. In 1897, he began replicating in condensed form the soups he had enjoyed in Europe. By 1904, his soups dominated company sales. Still famous today for its soups, Campbell's is also known for its iconic cans, immortalized by Andy Warhol. One of his soup artworks sold for $11.8 million.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 11, 2022, 10:06:46 AM
Pretty  sure the cans were etched on the country's psyche before Warhol painted them different colors.never understood why he was considered so great.Rockwell there was great American Artist - IMHO of course
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 11, 2022, 10:28:20 AM
When Surrender Was Worse Than Death: 8 Realities about Life at Andersonville Prison During the Civil War

Andersonville was no worse than other camps
Call bullshit on that.What other prison camp had 33,000 deaths? I'd watch Ken Burns,PBS docu.Some years ago i picked up a book on the local soldiers back in the day that had fought in the "Late Unpleasantness".They had last names of many of the roads/streets around here now.Anyway the book had the written correspondence between a soldier (in the western theater) and his wife back here.

 The letters were unbelievable,they were so much better at writing than we today as that was really their only form of communicating abroad.So they took their time and were all inclusive.No phone,internet etc there were telegraphs but that cost money. The back and forth letters informing each other of the goings on was brilliant.Then one day the letters from the front stopped.It turned out he was captured and sent to Andersonville and never heard from again.Because of the letters the reader felt that they knew him.Finding out his fate was ghastly as it was indeed real.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2022, 11:07:05 AM
can't be bullshite

I found it on FB
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2022, 11:07:40 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Battle of Taranto (1940)
The Battle of Taranto during World War II marked the first all-aircraft naval attack in history. The results were definitive, as British planes destroyed much of the Italian fleet anchored in Taranto, in an arm of the Ionian Sea. The battle is seen as a turning point in military history, marking the end of the reign of "big-gun" battleships and leading to the rise of naval air power. Certain aspects of the attack were studied as part of the planning for what other notorious aerial assault?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 11, 2022, 11:12:12 AM
can't be bullshite

I found it on FB
Well that settles it but they did lay off what?12,000 employees so you get what you pay for
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2022, 11:13:31 AM
first to go were the "fact checkers"?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 11, 2022, 11:24:21 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Battle of Taranto (1940)
The Battle of Taranto during World War II marked the first all-aircraft naval attack in history. The results were definitive, as British planes destroyed much of the Italian fleet anchored in Taranto, in an arm of the Ionian Sea. The battle is seen as a turning point in military history, marking the end of the reign of "big-gun" battleships and leading to the rise of naval air power. 
And the Dumb ass Churchill after Pearl Harbor sent HMS Repulse and Prince of Wales to their doom in the South China Sea without air cover.Both sunk by torpedos from subs and aircraft
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: SFBadger96 on November 11, 2022, 12:57:06 PM
"Dumb ass Churchill" is not something I see everyday. He was a flawed person, no doubt, with more than a little hubris, and more than one tactical error to his name (with ugly casualty counts to show for them). And he was exactly what the world needed in 1940--flaws and all.

Talk about weird. Humans are weird--and can be both great and terrible all wrapped up in the same skin.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 11, 2022, 01:09:24 PM
He had an inflasted view of his own greatness - fine statesman had no business directing military affairs.Based on the 40+ books I've read on WW2 is where i found out about his foibles.He may have been what England needed in 40-41-42 after that his constant support of Montgomery after he sacked much better commanders cost the allies time and lives
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2022, 01:11:24 PM
similar to Ryan Day's playcalling
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 11, 2022, 01:12:37 PM
I have no problem with Day's playcalling.He could recruit more big uglies 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2022, 01:21:04 PM
well, not all of Ryan's play calls work

I don't have a problem with Winston's military directives
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: SFBadger96 on November 11, 2022, 02:30:14 PM
He had an inflasted view of his own greatness - fine statesman had no business directing military affairs.Based on the 40+ books I've read on WW2 is where i found out about his foibles.He may have been what England needed in 40-41-42 after that his constant support of Montgomery after he sacked much better commanders cost the allies time and lives

I agree with this, but I would say it was more than just England. His refusal to cower before the Nazi war machine not only inspired the English (and Scots, Welsh, and Northern Irish) to keep up the fight, but also allowed the Allies time to gear up for winning the war. Better historians than me have speculated about what would have transpired if the UK had folded when other leaders would have recommended that, but my shorthand view is that the Reich would have cemented quite a hold on Europe with terrible consequences for humanity.

And that's my point--he was a great man for the time; he was the man the time required. I worry when people conflate that with an idealized man--one without flaws. He had flaws--deep ones. And the UK was probably correct to depose him in 1944 because by then his flaws had overtaken the utility of his stubborn will and masterful cheerleading. I won't forgive him his faults, but I nonetheless think he deserves his good reputation.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2022, 02:33:14 PM
https://youtu.be/nO6YL09T8Fw
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 11, 2022, 04:22:46 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Battle of Taranto (1940)
The Battle of Taranto during World War II marked the first all-aircraft naval attack in history. The results were definitive, as British planes destroyed much of the Italian fleet anchored in Taranto, in an arm of the Ionian Sea. The battle is seen as a turning point in military history, marking the end of the reign of "big-gun" battleships and leading to the rise of naval air power. Certain aspects of the attack were studied as part of the planning for what other notorious aerial assault?
The answer, of course, is Pear Harbor.  The two attacks (Taranto and PH) are remarkably similar.  What is astounding is that the US commanders at PH failed to learn the lessons of Taranto in the ~13 months between that and the attack on Pear Harbor.  

Kimmel and Short (the Navy and Army commanders at PH) were relieved of command shortly after the attack and, I think court martialed for failing to be better prepared for the attack.  There has been a lot of support for rehabilitating their reputations based on the information learned from broken codes possibly not being properly communicated to them.  I come down on the other side of that debate.  Even without a direct warning from codebreaking they were WELL AWARE of significant tension between the US and Japan and the entire US hierarchy knew that war with Japan was probable and that Japan had started the Russo-Japanese war with a surprise attack.  They should have foreseen the possibility and been better prepared for it.  

That said, in the long run it is probably better that they didn't.  If they had been better prepared the US Aircraft at Pear Harbor would likely have gotten into the air and done significant damage to the Japanese attackers.  It is even possible that the aircraft could have mounted a counter-attack against the Japanese fleet and inflicted damage on or sunk one or more Japanese carriers.  However, it is EXTREMELY unlikely that the US aircraft from Hawaii would have been more than a nusiance for the Japanese carriers.  

The bigger problem, had Kimmel and Short been better prepared, is that they would probably have had the ships ready to sail and thus they would have left port.  If they had evaded the Japanese that would have been great but it is FAR more likely that they'd have still been sunk but instead of being sunk in the very shallow harbor where they could be refloated, repaired, and put back in service in a few years, they'd have been sunk outside the harbor in DEEP water.  The water even just barely outside the harbor is far to deep for recovery efforts so any ships sunk basically outside the mouth of the harbor would have been lost forever.  

Additionally, USS Enterprise was West of Hawaii on it's way back from dropping off airplanes at Wake.  Assuming Kimmel and Short had done a better job of surveillance, they probably would have diverted Enterprise to investigate the Japanese fleet and/or attack.  That would likely have involved USS Enterprise in a lopsided 6 vs 1 engagement with Akagi, Kaga, Soryu, Hiryu, Shokaku, and Zuikaku.  

As it was, the attack caused around 2,000 deaths.  Other than that the only losses not repaired and put back in service were:

If the BB's had gotten underway it is fairly likely that there would have been more permanently lost ships.  Additionally, the crews of any lost ships would have been adrift at sea rather than within a short swim of Ford Island.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 11, 2022, 04:25:49 PM
I agree with this, but I would say it was more than just England. His refusal to cower before the Nazi war machine not only inspired the English (and Scots, Welsh, and Northern Irish) to keep up the fight, but also allowed the Allies time to gear up for winning the war. Better historians than me have speculated about what would have transpired if the UK had folded when other leaders would have recommended that, but my shorthand view is that the Reich would have cemented quite a hold on Europe with terrible consequences for humanity.

And that's my point--he was a great man for the time; he was the man the time required. I worry when people conflate that with an idealized man--one without flaws. He had flaws--deep ones. And the UK was probably correct to depose him in 1944 because by then his flaws had overtaken the utility of his stubborn will and masterful cheerleading. I won't forgive him his faults, but I nonetheless think he deserves his good reputation.
I don't think Churchill was responsible for sending Repulse and PoW out.  He was responsible for sending them to the far East, of course and they had arrived only days before the war began but I am fairly certain that the decision to send them out to challenge the landings was a local decision.  Additionally, Repulse and PoW were originally supposed to have been accompanied (to Singapore) by a carrier (I forget which one) but something happened to it (I forget what, mechanical issue I think) and it didn't end up making the trip.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 12, 2022, 08:52:27 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge Opens to Traffic (1936)
The "Bay Bridge" is a toll bridge linking the California cities of Oakland and San Francisco. About 280,000 vehicles cross it each day. San Francisco residents first recognized the need for a bridge spanning the San Francisco Bay during the Gold Rush when they found themselves cut off from the newly built railroad on the far side of the bay. However, construction of the span was delayed until 1933. Originally, the bridge was to be named after Governor James Rolph.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 13, 2022, 08:55:13 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Ronald DeFeo, Jr., Murders Family in Amityville, New York (1974)
After the DeFeo family was discovered murdered in their beds, Ronald DeFeo, Jr.—the family's only surviving member—was placed under police protection. DeFeo initially told investigators that he believed the murders were a mob hit, but he soon confessed and was convicted of murdering his parents and four siblings. A number of controversies surround the case, especially regarding the possible involvement of DeFeo's sister Dawn.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 13, 2022, 08:33:11 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/315078329_8935227423157823_5940894329944653296_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=UWNSWnA4djMAX-PDS1d&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCGGq-mw1jFo7mla07yfRMUiYRKbS1kqgyuBljS2cOcYQ&oe=6376950C)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 14, 2022, 09:11:24 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Melville's Moby-Dick Published in the US (1851)
Inspired by his whaling experiences on the South Seas, Herman Melville penned Moby-Dick, the now famed tale of a deranged whaling captain's obsessive voyage to find and destroy the great white whale to whom he lost his leg. The novel is at once an exciting sea story, a sociological critique of American prejudices, a repository of information about whaling, and a philosophical inquiry into the nature of good and evil.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 14, 2022, 09:45:40 AM
Based on a true story
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: SFBadger96 on November 14, 2022, 04:42:12 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
Melville's Moby-Dick Published in the US (1851)
Inspired by his whaling experiences on the South Seas, Herman Melville penned Moby-Dick, the now famed tale of a deranged whaling captain's obsessive voyage to find and destroy the great white whale to whom he lost his leg. The novel is at once an exciting sea story, a sociological critique of American prejudices, a repository of information about whaling, and a philosophical inquiry into the nature of good and evil.

And would have made a good short story, but is a brutal read as a novel. From the times when authors were paid by the word, and it reads like it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2022, 07:01:25 PM
And here is what was actually said courtesy of the late Mike Green; “Battleship at War”, the history of the USS Washington by Ivan Musicant:
“At 2148, Task Force 64 had reached a point 10 miles North of Savo Island; Ching Lee altered course to 150T, Southeast, and the ships steamed directly into Ironbottom Sound. As the vessels swung onto their new heading, transmissions in code and plain language English began coming through the tactical voice frequencies. The code, according to Lt. Raymond Thompson, Lee’s flag lieutenant, “was a new edition that we did not have.” That was a misfortune the admiral might have rued had events turned out different.
The radio traffic was from the Tulagi PT boat squadron, on patrol North of Savo. They had spotted Admiral Kondo’s force in Indispensable Strait and they sent off their report in the new code. Farther South they had blundered upon TF 64 and transmitted its position in the clear ending with; “There go two big ones, but I don’t know whose they are.”
Averting what could have been a most dangerous encounter to all those involved, Ching Lee took matters quickly in hand. Over the tactical voice frequency he sent a personal plain language message to “Cactus” (Guadalcanal Headquarters code name).
Although not exactly “Damn the torpedos, full speed ahead,” Lee’s message nevertheless got the point across.
The “text” was often referred to in the fast battleships for the rest of the war, and everyone had his own version.
Lt. Ray Hunter, OOD, who should know, remembered it this way.
“He went over to the TBS (talk between ships) and pressed the button. “This is Ching Chong China Lee!  Refer your big boss* about Ching Lee!  Call off your boys!”
The PT boats responded with admirable speed.  “Identity established.  We are not after you.”
Everyone on the bridge breathed a little easier, and the task force swept on at a moderate speed of seventeen knots.
*Maj. General Alexander Vandegrift, USMC, Commanding General 1st Marine Division and all U.S. forces on Guadalcanal.”

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 16, 2022, 07:50:25 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Sir Oswald Mosley (1896)
Dubbed the 20th century's worst Briton by the BBC History Magazine, Mosley was a British politician who founded the British Union of Fascists, modeled upon the German and Italian fascist parties of the 1930s. Members adopted Nazi-style uniforms and promoted anti-Semitism. In 1940, Mosley and his second wife, Diana Guinness, a known friend of Adolf Hitler, were interned along with other prominent British fascists.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 16, 2022, 09:06:20 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/sUOkiy7.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 16, 2022, 09:59:18 AM
not my tab
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 16, 2022, 10:48:47 AM
It isn't really history since it just happened but over Veteran's Day weekend six people were killed and two vintage WWII aircraft were destroyed at an airshow in the Dallas area. 

A P63 (upgraded P39) collided with a B17 and both aircraft were destroyed. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 16, 2022, 11:23:40 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/sKrXZx0.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 16, 2022, 01:20:59 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/OoQNvmO.png)

This has to be among the weirdest-looking of all Sherman variants.
It is the T31 demolition tank, which began its life in 1944 after a request for an engineer vehicle armed with two 7.2 inch rocket launchers in the turret.
These launchers were encased in their own armored compartments on either side of the turret. Two .30 caliber machine guns were also added to the turret for close-in defense, as well as a .50 caliber.
Interestingly, a dummy 105 mm howitzer barrel was fitted in the center of the turret. Many sources state that this was indeed a working weapon, but this is untrue. There were also plans to install a flame thrower, in case three .30 caliber machine guns, one .50 caliber machine gun and two 7.2 inch rocket launchers weren't enough.
A single prototype was completed in 1945, but due to problems in testing and the end of the war the project was cancelled.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 16, 2022, 01:24:32 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/sKrXZx0.png)
Looks like they nabbed someone on the left, any of your kin bootleggers?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 16, 2022, 01:28:19 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/sUOkiy7.png)
So that's what our board meetings use to look like.I always thought it was like this

(https://i.imgur.com/34hcrzb.png)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 16, 2022, 01:37:22 PM
This has to be among the weirdest-looking of all Sherman variants.
It is the T31 demolition tank, which began its life in 1944 after a request for an engineer vehicle armed with two 7.2 inch rocket launchers in the turret. There were also plans to install a flame thrower, in case three .30 caliber machine guns, one .50 caliber machine gun and two 7.2 inch rocket launchers weren't enough.
Even if that model was completed with the flamethrower,it would have been more serviceable in the Pacific.It would get blasted in the ETO because the Reich had much better armor piercing capabilities.Guys would have to be nuts to crawl inside of that and become a roman candle or a road flare
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2022, 11:36:23 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Wf7Vqy9.png)

First in the nation in NJ 1928.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on November 17, 2022, 04:00:33 PM
Wonder what it looks like now? 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2022, 04:03:09 PM
Probably has flyovers now.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2022, 04:04:35 PM
So that's what our board meetings use to look like.I always thought it was like this

(https://i.imgur.com/34hcrzb.png)


Yeah, that's it. I'm the guy in the shopping cart. We're missing TK in that picture, as he was busy outrunning the Madison police.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: ELA on November 17, 2022, 04:05:44 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Wf7Vqy9.png)

First in the nation in NJ 1928.
Looks like there were a lot of loose lips who needed a government contract to do away with
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 18, 2022, 07:58:18 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/PWAbLsC.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 18, 2022, 08:35:34 AM
Didn't he expand on a space-time continuum and question the work of Albert Einstein? Who examined the laws of physics as they related to the speed of light.Einstein had concluded that space and time, rather than separate and unrelated phenomena, are actually interwoven into a single continuum (called space-time) that spans multiple dimensions - length/width/height/time.I use to read this stuff in between issues of Field & Stream(Not really). As good as they were I don't think Einstein or Bohr could beat the spead during football season
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 18, 2022, 08:40:15 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/MBkhsaF.jpg)

Here's a postcard issued in the early 1940s that shows a rendering of the Orange Bowl when it opened in 1937. It was then known as Burdine Stadium, then named after Miami's pioneer merchant Roddey Burdine, who passed away one year before the stadium was completed. The original seating capacity was 23,330. End zone bleachers were added in 1939. The upper deck would be constructed in 1947.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 18, 2022, 08:41:36 AM
That would be big enough to hold all of the Cane fans today, plus extra for visiting fans.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 18, 2022, 08:47:49 AM
Yeah, that's it. I'm the guy in the shopping cart. We're missing TK in that picture, as he was busy outrunning the Madison police.
I'm the guy on the right in the #15 Tommie Frazier jersey with a Bud Fat held high
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 18, 2022, 09:36:10 AM
“Hail Varsity” debuted today in 1936, written by music professor Wilbur Chenoweth with words by alumnus Warren Joyce Ayres. The Daily Nebraskan began to lobby it as the official school song, which it became in 1937.

📷: UNL Archives and Special Collections

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/316036028_506645351493408_5435939436283353453_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=hs84WUQQAm0AX_-Qr3B&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAOphvlGs7UzRygbsAIIT5yBc0j4tcKmBIspcN7ngUwfw&oe=637CB30B)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 18, 2022, 12:19:32 PM
ARMISTICE DAY, THE DAY 85 DUCK HUNTERS DIED

The fall of 1940 was a mild one in the Midwest. October brought an Indian summer with warm temperatures, no wind, and little rain. The general public loved it, but duck hunters hated it.

As every waterfowler knows, it takes “bad” weather to kickstart the migration each autumn. Sure, there was a smattering of local teal, wigeon, and shovelers to be hunted early in the season, but most of North America’s ducks were fattening up on Canada’s prairie well into fall.

That all changed on November 10 when a forecast came that held promise. Cold, snow, wind, and clouds were predicted for most of the North. The timing couldn’t have been better—or worse, with hindsight. The next day, November 11, was Armistice Day, a widely recognized and widely celebrated holiday at that time.

Armistice Day commemorated the peace treaty signed between the Allies and Germany that ended WWI in 1918. In 1954, President Dwight Eisenhower changed the name to Veterans’ Day “to insure proper and widespread observance” of all soldiers from all wars.

The forecast did exactly what it was supposed to: Hordes of mallards, redheads, bluebills, and canvasbacks poured into the Great Plains and Great Lakes regions. Hunters took to water and field that morning with high expectations that were certainly met. Many even referred to it as the best day of duck hunting they’d ever experienced.


“At 2 o’clock the rain turned into wind-driven sleet and snow, and within the next two hours I saw more waterfowl than I’ve seen in my life,” Dale Engler, who was hunting on the Mississippi River in Minnesota, wrote in a personal account in 1963. “About that time some hunters started to go ashore, but I thought it was just an early snowstorm and paid no attention. Besides, I was having the time of my life.”

Engler’s story isn’t unique. Thousands of waterfowlers across the Midwest hunted into the afternoon as clouds of snow and clouds of ducks filled the atmosphere. As the weather got worse, the duck hunting got better.

What was taking place was a collision of cold, dry polar air from Canada and warm, moist, subtropical air from the Gulf of Mexico. The result was a blizzard that brought 2 feet of snow, 40 to 50 m.p.h. sustained winds (with gusts of 80), and a 30-degree temperature swing from above freezing to single digits.

The storm halted travel, knocked out power and phone lines, and devastated livestock. So many domestic turkeys died in Minnesota and Iowa that farmers were selling “fresh frozen” birds for 25 cents apiece. There was a regional shortage for Thanksgiving that year, with some estimates suggesting 1.5 million turkeys were lost in the blizzard.

And in the middle of this once-in-a-lifetime storm were the unprepared duck hunters. At best, hunters were wearing cotton duck coats and canvas gloves and hats. At worst, they were in jeans and flannels. It’s hard to blame them, though.


“It was shirt-sleeve weather,” William Hull wrote in “All Hell Broke Loose.” “Fifty degrees. Few had given a second thought to cold weather gear. But few could have imagined the deadly nightmare that would besiege the Upper Midwest that day.”

For many hunters that stayed afield beyond lunchtime, it was too late. Cranky outboard motors wouldn’t start, and even if they did, the waves had become too big to navigate. Their only option was to spend the night in the blizzard.

Some hunters managed to find other hunters and consolidate resources, but many entered the night in groups of two or three. Either way, they had to get creative to fight off hypothermia. Some took turns shooting down tree branches to stoke a fire or light loose piles of gunpowder for brief moments of heat. Others held their dogs to stay warm or punched each other to stay awake.

For those that made it to daylight, the agony wasn’t over. The wind still blew, temps still hovered around zero, and boat motors were no more willing to start. Hunters mostly had to rely on other hunters for rescuing, but there was one waterfowling guardian angel in the sky that day.

Max Conrad, a pilot who dozens of hunters said they owed their lives to, risked his own on Tuesday, November 12, to fly his Piper Cub over the Mississippi. Conrad scanned the frozen earth for the living, but often just discovered the dead.


If he did find a survivor, he’d swing his plane low, cut the engine, scream out the window that help was on the way, and drop canisters filled with sandwiches, matches, whiskey, and cigarettes. After that, he’d circle above them until rescue boats could zero in on the location and reach the hunters. Conrad did this until 10 p.m. that night, then got up the next morning and did it all again.

Casualty estimates range from 159 to 210—about 85 were duck hunters from North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, and Illinois and 66 were sailors on Lake Michigan. The rest were made up of train passengers, motorists, farmers, children, and more. The massive loss of life inspired the U.S. Weather Bureau to invest more in technology and communication to ensure that this would never happen again.

“Meteorologists shudder when the Armistice Day blizzard subject comes up,” meteorologist Paul Douglas of Minnesota told Minnesota Public Radio in a 2000 interview. “I think technology has helped and we would not be caught off guard again. But certainly there can still be scenarios where we are surprised, where we are caught, and that’s why this can be such a humbling profession.”

You also can’t underestimate a hunter’s willingness to push through bad weather to ascend one more mountain, or hunt one more hour, or kill one more mallard. For those that didn’t die in their blind or boat, the day served as a reminder of what could have been and what was.

“The ducks were all over, so we just stood there and shot ‘em,” Ed Kosidowski, a Minnesota hunter, said in a 1983 interview. “We had warm clothes—extra socks and all—so we kept firing away. Oh, it was a terrible night. We didn’t make it to shore until about 10 p.m. But that shooting, oh that shooting, you couldn’t imagine it.”


(https://wp.themeateater.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/armistice-day-blizzard-3.jpg)

Two dead duck hunters from Minnesota.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 19, 2022, 07:50:09 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Abraham Lincoln Delivers Gettysburg Address (1863)
The Gettysburg Address, one of the most quoted speeches in US history, was delivered by President Abraham Lincoln at the dedication of the Soldiers' National Cemetery in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, four and half months after the famous battle fought there. In about two minutes, Lincoln's address redefined the American Civil War as not just a struggle for the Union, but as "a new birth of freedom" for the US and its people.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 19, 2022, 10:15:06 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Abraham Lincoln Delivers Gettysburg Address (1863)
The Gettysburg Address, one of the most quoted speeches in US history, was delivered by President Abraham Lincoln at the dedication of the Soldiers' National Cemetery in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, four and half months after the famous battle fought there. In about two minutes, Lincoln's address redefined the American Civil War as not just a struggle for the Union, but as "a new birth of freedom" for the US and its people.
I've always found it ironic that probably the most memorized speech in America starts with the line:"History will little note, nor long remember what we say here . . ."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 19, 2022, 11:08:49 AM
Pictured here is the Ryan FR-1 Fireball. It has to be one of the strangest planes ever built.

It has a radial piston engine in the nose driving a propeller AND a jet engine in the tail. It was designed and built for the US Navy during WWII and entered service before the end of WWII. It only barely missed seeing Combat during the war but did not last long after the Japanese surrendered. There were design issues and, in any case, the Navy quickly moved on to all jet powered aircraft anyway. 

The reason for this strange configuration was that early jets lacked the quick acceleration necessary to take off from short Carrier flight decks so Ryan and the Navy got around this with this dual power system.

I think the idea was that it would combine the best aspects of piston and jet power but the reality was that it combined the worst aspects of piston and jet power. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 19, 2022, 11:33:59 AM
weird
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 19, 2022, 01:54:58 PM
There were several jet-prop planes back in the day, including of course 6 turning and 4 burning.  The jet engine wasn't all that reliable, used a lot of fuel, and had problems with low thrust off the line, as noted, so the composite seemed to make sense.  The Navy operated a fair number of prop planes during the Korean conflict.  It was a lot easier to transition with long runways.  The catapult system helped change that.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 19, 2022, 02:05:14 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/QQ3HflJ.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 19, 2022, 08:23:21 PM
There were several jet-prop planes back in the day, including of course 6 turning and 4 burning.  The jet engine wasn't all that reliable, used a lot of fuel, and had problems with low thrust off the line, as noted, so the composite seemed to make sense.  The Navy operated a fair number of prop planes during the Korean conflict.  It was a lot easier to transition with long runways.  The catapult system helped change that.
That 6 turning 4 burning plane had so many reliability issues that the crews nicknamed them four turning, three burning, one smoking, and two unaccounted for.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 20, 2022, 08:24:31 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Nuremberg Trials Begin (1945)
The Nuremberg Trials, which took place in Germany between 1945 and 1949, were a series of trials prosecuting Nazi officials for their participation in World War II and the Holocaust. The first and most famous of these trials, the Trial of the Major War Criminals before the International Military Tribunal, involved 24 of the most important leaders of Nazi Germany, 12 of whom were sentenced to death for crimes against humanity and other offenses.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 20, 2022, 08:32:04 AM
That 6 turning 4 burning plane had so many reliability issues that the crews nicknamed them four turning, three burning, one smoking, and two unaccounted for.
My buddy flew in French Lockheed Constellations which he described as the best three engined aircraft ever made.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 20, 2022, 08:55:21 AM
College football, in general, especially yesterday, we seem to have a Saturday like that every year.

Teams ranked in the AP that lost:

5
10
13
14
16
20
22
24

I probably missed one.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 21, 2022, 08:32:14 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/H6CyW7F.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 21, 2022, 08:33:17 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Verrazano-Narrows Bridge Opens (1964)
The Verrazano-Narrows Bridge connects the boroughs of Staten Island and Brooklyn in New York City. From the time of its completion until 1981, it was the largest suspension bridge in the world, with a span of 4,260 feet (1,298 m). Designed by engineer Othmar Ammann, a noted authority on bridges, it furnished a critical link in the regional highway system and is widely known today as the starting point for the New York City Marathon.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 21, 2022, 08:43:22 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/sMI2PJV.png)

Known affectionately as the “Mouth of the South, he created a TV and sports empire that dramatically altered the media landscape.
Robert Edward “Ted” Turner was born in Cincinnati in 1938. When he was nine, his family moved to Savannah. Turner took over his father’s billboard company after his father’s suicide and began expanding the business. He moved to Atlanta and bought a small UHF station that played cartoons and old movies. Then, needing programming, Turner bought the Atlanta Braves, broadcasting their games, and not just locally. Using satellites, he beamed the Braves across the country. The “superstation” was born.
Turner launched CNN in 1980, the first 24-hour all-news network, followed by a host of other cable operations. He matched his business enterprise with a flamboyant personality that kept him in the news, particularly winning the America’s Cup in 1977 and his $1 billion gift to the United Nations, the single largest donation by a private individual in history.
The man who singlehandedly reshaped the communications universe in the 20th century was born on November 19, 1938, Today in Georgia History.


His daughter had a condo in our building.  Supposedly it's up for sale, or nearly so, but isn't on the market yet.  We toured it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 21, 2022, 11:15:24 AM
Interestingly, the equation E=mc2 does not appear in Einstein’s fourth paper, which was titled Does the Inertia of a Body Depend Upon Its Energy-Content? (https://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/E_mc2/www/) That’s because Einstein used V to mean the speed of light in a vacuum and L to mean the energy lost by a body in the form of radiation.
So, in his paper, E=mc2 was not originally written as a formula but as a sentence in German that said (translated into English):
Quote
… if a body gives off the energy L in the form of radiation, its mass diminishes by L/V2.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 21, 2022, 12:37:29 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/entertainment/news/the-day-the-music-died/vi-AA14lb1L?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=cfd252275c6e417aa58d27b183d47e86

On October 24th, 1971, American singer-songwriter Don McLean released iconic song “American Pie”. Throughout the song, McLean repeatedly refers back to “the day the music died”. That day refers to February 3rd, 1959, when 3 great young rock n’ roll artists died in an airplane crash near Clear Lake, Iowa.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 21, 2022, 12:45:27 PM
Damn alot of talent on such a little plane 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 21, 2022, 02:32:58 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ACEnXxT.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 21, 2022, 02:40:02 PM
not a lot of NFL games played there except for the Manning Bros
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 21, 2022, 02:40:43 PM
Some clipboards kept clean ...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 21, 2022, 02:49:34 PM
Zeier was drafted by Belichick in Cleveland where he had a cup of coffee before the franchise moved
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 22, 2022, 08:24:20 AM
"The Pythagoreans, as they are called, devoted themselves to mathematics; they were the first to advance this study, and having been brought up in it they thought its principles were the principles of all things." - Aristotle
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 22, 2022, 08:33:08 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

President John F. Kennedy Assassinated (1963)
The assassination of John F. Kennedy while he was riding in a presidential motorcade in Dallas, Texas, was a seminal event in American history. The US government's subsequent investigation—dubbed the "Warren Commission"—concluded that Lee Harvey Oswald was the culprit, but the assassination is still widely debated, and many people doubt that Oswald acted alone. Oswald's murder just two days later, while in police custody, further fueled conspiracy theories. Who was the "Babushka Lady"?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 22, 2022, 08:39:33 AM
The Babushka Lady is an unidentified woman present during the 1963 assassination of US President John F. Kennedy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_assassination) who might have photographed or filmed the events that occurred in Dallas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas)'s Dealey Plaza (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dealey_Plaza) at the time President John F. Kennedy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy) was shot. Her nickname arose from the headscarf (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headscarf) she wore, which was similar to scarves worn by elderly Russian women (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Russia) (бабушка (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/babushka) – babushka – literally means "grandmother" or "old woman" in Russian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language)).
The Babushka Lady was seen to be holding a camera by eyewitnesses and was also seen in film accounts of the assassination.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babushka_Lady#cite_note-1)[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babushka_Lady#cite_note-2) She was observed standing on the grass between Elm and Main streets, standing amongst onlookers in front of the Dallas County Building, and is visible in the Zapruder film (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapruder_film) as well as in the films of Orville Nix (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orville_Nix),[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babushka_Lady#cite_note-3) Marie Muchmore (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Muchmore), and Mark Bell[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babushka_Lady#cite_note-4) (44 minutes and 47 seconds into the Bell film: even though the shooting had already taken place and most of her surrounding witnesses took cover, she can be seen still standing with the camera at her face). After the shooting, she crossed Elm Street and joined the crowd that went up the grassy knoll (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grassy_knoll). She is last seen in photographs walking east on Elm Street. Neither she, nor the film she may have taken, have ever been positively identified. Her first appearance on film chronologically is on the sidewalk in front of the Dallas County Building - visible in an image as being on JFK's right. She would have crossed Houston Street and onto Dealey Plaza in order to be visible in the Dealey Plaza images. This may imply that the images show two different women of similar appearance however it is plausible that once the motorcade passed by she was able to cross the street to catch a second motorcade drive past on Dealey Plaza where she would be on JFK's left.



Beverly Oliver's claim[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Babushka_Lady&action=edit&section=1)]
In 1970, a woman named Beverly Oliver told conspiracy researcher Gary Shaw at a church revival meeting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revival_meeting) in Joshua, Texas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua,_Texas), that she was the Babushka Lady.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babushka_Lady#cite_note-Bugliosi-5) Oliver stated that she filmed the assassination with a Super 8 film Yashica (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yashica) and that she turned the undeveloped film over to two men who identified themselves to her as FBI agents.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babushka_Lady#cite_note-Bugliosi-5) According to Oliver, she obtained no receipt from the men, who told her that they would return the film to her within ten days. She did not follow up with an inquiry.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babushka_Lady#cite_note-Bugliosi-5) She reiterated her claims in the 1988 documentary The Men Who Killed Kennedy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Men_Who_Killed_Kennedy).[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babushka_Lady#cite_note-Bugliosi-5) According to Vincent Bugliosi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Bugliosi), Oliver "has never proved to most people's satisfaction that she was in Dealey Plaza that day."[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babushka_Lady#cite_note-Bugliosi-5) Confronted with the fact that the Yashica Super-8 camera was not made until 1969, she stated that she received the "experimental" camera from a friend and was not even sure the manufacturer's name was on it.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babushka_Lady#cite_note-Bugliosi-5)
Beverly Oliver's claims were the basis for a scene in Oliver Stone (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Stone)'s 1991 film JFK (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JFK_(film)), in which a character named "Beverly" meets Jim Garrison (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Garrison) in a Dallas nightclub.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babushka_Lady#cite_note-Stone-6) Played by Lolita Davidovich (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolita_Davidovich), she is depicted in the director's cut (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director's_cut) as wearing a headscarf at Dealey Plaza and speaking of having given the film she shot to two men claiming to be FBI agents.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 22, 2022, 09:12:50 PM
https://youtu.be/eB9am3HGQs0
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 23, 2022, 07:40:31 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First episode of Doctor Who Debuts on BBC (1963)
This long-running British science-fiction program about a time-traveling adventurer known only as "the Doctor" has, over the years, gained an international cult following that spans generations. The original series ran for 26 seasons, going off the air at the end of 1989. A modestly successful Doctor Who TV movie in 1996 was followed in 2005 by the revival of the series. Over the years, 12 different actors have played "the Doctor,"
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 25, 2022, 08:34:03 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Battle of Montgisard (1177)
The Kingdom of Jerusalem—a feudal state created by the leaders of the First Crusade in the areas they had wrested from the Muslims in Syria and Palestine—came under attack in the Battle of Montgisard. Although heavily outnumbered, sickly king Baldwin IV and his troops defeated renowned Kurdish military general Saladin by surprising his army en route. The kingdom enjoyed a brief truce before Saladin renewed his attacks.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 27, 2022, 09:29:57 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Scuttling of the French fleet in Toulon (1942)
When Nazi Germany occupied northern and western France in 1940, the coastal city of Toulon fell under Vichy jurisdiction in the so-called unoccupied zone in the south. The center of French naval power since the 19th century, Toulon housed much of the French fleet. When, in 1942, Germany finally occupied all of France and Toulon's capture appeared imminent, the French scuttled much of the fleet rather than allow the vessels to fall into German hands.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 28, 2022, 09:12:39 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
First Serving Female British MP Elected (1919)
American-born Nancy Witcher Astor, or Viscountess Astor, was the second woman elected to the British Parliament's House of Commons and the first to actually serve. She concentrated on women's issues, temperance, and child welfare and was reelected many times, serving until 1945. Astor attracted a great deal of attention, much of it for her caustic and witty comments. She reportedly once said to Winston Churchill, "If you were my husband, I'd poison your tea!"
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 28, 2022, 05:01:12 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
First Serving Female British MP Elected (1919)
She reportedly once said to Winston Churchill, "If you were my husband, I'd poison your tea!"
Churchill's reported response is even better. Supposedly he replied, "Madam, if you were my wife I'd drink it."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 30, 2022, 09:12:56 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Sir Winston Churchill (1874)
Churchill was prime minister of the UK during World War II and led the country through both its darkest and finest hours. He was a writer, artist, legislator, soldier, and one of the most influential leaders in modern history. After being appointed prime minister in 1940, he forged a strong alliance with the US and an uneasy one with the USSR. These alliances were two key factors in the defeat of the Axis Powers. A prolific painter, Churchill exhibited his art under what pseudonym?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 30, 2022, 09:40:21 AM
Churchill's reported response is even better. Supposedly he replied, "Madam, if you were my wife I'd drink it."
 Churchill by Himself, (https://www.amazon.com/dp/1586486381/?tag=richmlang-20) page 573:
Bessie Braddock: “Winston, you are drunk, and what’s more you are disgustingly drunk.”
Winston Churchill: “ But tomorrow I shall be sober and you will still be disgustingly ugly.” —1946.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2022, 10:23:55 AM
November 29, 2022 — Mauna Loa eruption map | U.S. Geological Survey (usgs.gov) (https://www.usgs.gov/maps/november-29-2022-mauna-loa-eruption-map)

This is the "big" volcano in Hawaii, and by big, I do not exaggerate.  On clear days one can sort of appreciate it's massive size.  It looks improbable, and now it's erupting again after nearly 40 years.  The "other" one that erupts more or less constantly is Kilauea, which is located in Volcano National Park.

The current lava flow is threatening to breach the Saddle Road which crosses the middle of the island and is pretty crucial.  

Nobody lives anywhere near this current flow, at this point.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2022, 10:28:01 AM
Mauna Loa Eruption, A Closer Look (Nov. 29, 2022) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCUpufOX0VE)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 30, 2022, 10:37:26 AM
I heard that both volcanos are erupting currently

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2022, 12:13:05 PM
They are, it's unusual as Mauna Loa has been quiet for 38 years.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2022, 12:30:26 PM
Two volcanoes erupt in Mauna Loa -CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/video/rare-dual-eruption-from-neighboring-volcanoes-mauna-loa-and-kilauea-on-hawaiis-big-island/#x)

Neat videos.  I've never seen lava fountains like that, the eruptions are usually slow moving and minorish.

We once were able to get within feet of a flow and have seen one dropping into the ocean from a helo.  If the Saddle Road is cut, it'll be annoying.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 30, 2022, 12:37:24 PM
traffic and transportation problems in paradise

F it dude, let's go surfin
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2022, 12:39:40 PM
There is almost no surfing on the Big Island.  The shorelines are nearly all craggy and lava shelves.  There are some sand beaches but with lava outcroppings all over, especially on the NE part.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 30, 2022, 12:40:24 PM
bummer, dude
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2022, 12:41:50 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/W8MwJyk.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/35NqMQ1.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2022, 12:43:02 PM
You can see the slope of Mauna Loa in the background slowly rising up to nearly 14,000 feet.  No surfing.

(https://i.imgur.com/YLmKZgr.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2022, 12:45:08 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/lNxwWUP.jpg)

Lobby waldorf Astoria on Maui.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 30, 2022, 03:07:47 PM
bummer, dude
OK Spicoli
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2022, 03:16:27 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/pa2rzOz.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 30, 2022, 03:36:06 PM
https://youtu.be/f9Gb4PakFTU
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2022, 03:56:28 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/MPSB9Kp.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 01, 2022, 08:11:35 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Rosa Parks Refuses to Give Up Her Seat (1955)
Dubbed the "Mother of the Modern-Day Civil Rights Movement" by the US Congress, Rosa Parks was an African-American civil rights activist who became famous in 1955 for refusing to vacate her seat on a municipal bus for a white man. This act of civil disobedience sparked the Montgomery Bus Boycott, which launched Martin Luther King, Jr., into prominence and became one of the largest and most successful movements against racial segregation.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 01, 2022, 11:03:41 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/wPtrrkR.png)

1957
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 01, 2022, 03:58:01 PM
Could building set to be bulldozed have 'Gone With the Wind' author ties? | Urbanize Atlanta (https://atlanta.urbanize.city/post/gone-with-wind-margaret-mitchell-midtown-building-demolition-author-ties)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 01, 2022, 07:12:59 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/317729215_10222770728999349_578867204360189583_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=BTY4QzIqQSkAX9_aSo0&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAj8MrKyxnrlkQATLLCWNdORTLmjJ4EZyWmBYEnSJay3g&oe=638E3E51)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2022, 08:05:08 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/NiwffxH.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 02, 2022, 11:10:30 AM
27 November 1868, a detachment of US troops under the command of General Custer ignored orders to kill only warriors and massacred 103 sleeping Cheyenne in the so-called "Battle of the Washita".

Cheyenne chief Black Kettle had requested permission from US colonial authorities to move his village near to Fort Cobb for protection. The request was refused, but Black Kettle was reassured that if his men stayed in their villages, they would not be attacked. Just before dawn the following morning, while most of the village were asleep, the US Army attacked the village. General Custer had ordered his troops "to destroy their villages and ponies, to kill or hang all warriors, and bring back all women and children."

Black Kettle awoke when the attack began and lifted his hand to give a gesture of peace. He and his wife were shot dead, and their bodies ridden over by horses.

In just a few minutes, the village was destroyed and hundreds of horses were shot. Rather than separate warriors, the soldiers massacred 103 people, only 11 of whom were warriors, the others being women and children. They also took 53 women and children hostage.

Hearing gunfire, a detachment of Arapaho warriors came to the aid of the Cheyenne, as did some Kiowa and Nʉmʉnʉʉ (Comanche). These fighters encountered and wiped out a detachment of 17 US troops.

At this point the US army withdrew with its captives. Custer was later killed by Cheyenne, Arapaho and Lakota warriors in the Battle of the Little Bighorn."

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/317820105_10222434321509912_3753882380348830944_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=ky1pBPbjNIUAX_iQsOh&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBgvbKww89o8R57-jYY6nJ_o7HjRpXdVSE7uyRnzXfa_Q&oe=638F2AE7)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2022, 04:41:57 PM
November 27, 1971: On this day 51 years ago, University of Florida defensive players purposely dropped to the ground and allowed Miami quarterback John Hornibrook to score. With the Gators leading 45-8 with only a few minutes play, the ploy allowed Florida quarterback John Reaves enough time to break Jim Plunkett's then NCAA career passing yardage record. Known as the Gator Flop, it remains one of the most infamous moments at the Orange Bowl. After the game an angry Miami coach Fran Curci refused to shake hands with Florida's Doug Dickey. Curci would later say Miami would win a national championship before the Gators ever win the SEC. He would be proven right.

(https://i.imgur.com/ZmtJkBJ.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 03, 2022, 09:08:56 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Worst Industrial Disaster in History (1984)
The accidental release of methyl isocyanate gas from the Union Carbide pesticide plant in Bhopal, India, immediately killed at least 3,000 people and ultimately caused 15,000 to 20,000 deaths. Another 500,000 survivors have since suffered ailments related to the disaster. The company paid $470 million in compensation to the victims, and several former employees were convicted of death by negligence in relation to the incident. Yet, it maintains that it is not to blame for the gas release.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 03, 2022, 06:38:26 PM
In the mid-1950s, Hiller Aircraft constructed a series of flying platforms for an Army-Navy program. The pilot simply leaned in the desired direction and the platform would follow. Hiller Aircraft incorporated twin counter-rotating propellers in a round housing (ducted fan). Sixty percent of the platform’s lift was generated by thrust from the counter-rotating propellers and 40% was generated by air moving over the ducted fan's leading edge

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/318115134_202423425631841_4697378510641523400_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=rI9Ub-YjktUAX9Ph6Ky&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAY4JPZcjNTGZiJZ0hGmeN3-bqwhLLgZ9fopIRLBcEpqA&oe=6391C6B1)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 03, 2022, 06:52:18 PM
This week in 2005 utee 94 created the Beer Thread,good work 94 - you get a Yuengling
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 04, 2022, 03:16:29 PM
The Trial of the Century That Wasn't | History| Smithsonian Magazine (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/trial-century-jefferson-davis-treason-180962776/)

Davis wasn’t always famous for disunion. As a U.S. senator and secretary of war in the 1850s, he was the champion of expanding the Capitol into the majestic meeting place Congress has today. At the same time, he was a resolute advocate for states’ rights. In 1867, he was prepared to argue that he did not betray the country because once Mississippi left it, he was no longer a U.S. citizen. “Everybody thought it was going to be the test case on the legality of secession,” says Cynthia Nicoletti, a University of Virginia legal scholar whose book Secession on Trial (https://www.amazon.com/Secession-Trial-Treason-Prosecution-Jefferson/dp/1108415520/ref=as_li_ss_tl?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1491846013&sr=8-1&linkCode=ll1&tag=smithsonianco-20&linkId=71df8757693d480dac9af63e9ce79c70) is due out in August. Serious people believed he had a chance of winning.

President Andrew Johnson took no chances. On Christmas Day 1868, he pardoned former Confederates from the crime of treason, thwarting vengeful Northerners, Lost Cause Southerners and headline writers all over the country.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on December 05, 2022, 10:41:25 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Worst Industrial Disaster in History (1984)
The accidental release of methyl isocyanate gas from the Union Carbide pesticide plant in Bhopal, India, immediately killed at least 3,000 people and ultimately caused 15,000 to 20,000 deaths. Another 500,000 survivors have since suffered ailments related to the disaster. The company paid $470 million in compensation to the victims, and several former employees were convicted of death by negligence in relation to the incident. Yet, it maintains that it is not to blame for the gas release.
It's complicated.  The company I work for owns the remnants of UCC.  
That plant was 51% owned by UCC and 49% UCC-India.  So it was a JV.  If you believe company accounts, the way the poisonous  cloud was generated and released was done very deliberately.  Added to that, most of the deaths occurred in "shanty town" houses next to the plant.  Essentially a make-shift camp of poorly constructed, open air houses.  

Either way, a bad disaster.  We used to get emails about protesters etc but it seems to have died down.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on December 05, 2022, 10:53:44 AM
This week in 2005 utee 94 created the Beer Thread,good work 94 - you get a Yuengling
word
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on December 05, 2022, 10:54:41 AM
In the mid-1950s, Hiller Aircraft constructed a series of flying platforms for an Army-Navy program. The pilot simply leaned in the desired direction and the platform would follow. Hiller Aircraft incorporated twin counter-rotating propellers in a round housing (ducted fan). Sixty percent of the platform’s lift was generated by thrust from the counter-rotating propellers and 40% was generated by air moving over the ducted fan's leading edge

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/318115134_202423425631841_4697378510641523400_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=rI9Ub-YjktUAX9Ph6Ky&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAY4JPZcjNTGZiJZ0hGmeN3-bqwhLLgZ9fopIRLBcEpqA&oe=6391C6B1)

And yet we STILL don't have flying cars.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 05, 2022, 10:58:58 AM
A buck private prolly had to tell the corporate brainiacs who created that thing that's it's easier to hit than a clay pidgeon.Wonder how much research and development coin went into that before Biff had to point that out
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 05, 2022, 11:11:49 AM
Any real development of flying cars would require a LOT of automation and  traffic/air space deconfliction unless you required every driver to get a pilot's license.

That could happen fairly soon, but I think it would always be better to have a plane or helo AND a separate car.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 05, 2022, 11:52:14 AM
No only that they'd have to be all electric right? Just hope they don't catch on fire like the cars
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 05, 2022, 12:26:10 PM
Wouldn't HAVE to be, I think.  As others have noted, to fly you have to use power to overcome gravity.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 05, 2022, 12:31:11 PM
Well we can send up John Kerry,Pelosi,Hunter they're all on board with green or is it making green?Anyway send them up
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 05, 2022, 02:12:55 PM
A buck private prolly had to tell the corporate brainiacs who created that thing that's it's easier to hit than a clay pidgeon.Wonder how much research and development coin went into that before Biff had to point that out
did ya ever hunt clay pigeons with a rifle?

Or see many scatter guns carried by the infantry?

no, my real name isn't Biff
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 05, 2022, 05:35:37 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Sergei Eisenstein's Battleship Potemkin Debuts in US (1926)
Eisenstein's Battleship Potemkin, based on the real-life 1905 uprising aboard the Russian battleship Potemkin, is a seminal film in cinematic history. Eisenstein deliberately wrote the silent film as a revolutionary propaganda piece and used it to test his theories of "montage," a form of movie collage consisting of a series of short shots edited into a sequence intended to effect emotional or intellectual responses.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 05, 2022, 08:39:12 PM
did ya ever hunt clay pigeons with a rifle?

Or see many scatter guns carried by the infantry?

no, my real name isn't Biff
Maybe in your army that yahoo wouldn't get hit but i know plenty good ole boys would make short work of that tub
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 06, 2022, 06:14:26 AM
He'd be very vulnerable to rifle fire as well, very.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 06, 2022, 08:30:33 AM
https://youtu.be/I1_W2_nKCvM
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 06, 2022, 11:44:59 AM
He'd be very vulnerable to rifle fire as well, very.
well, ya gotta zig zag

and it helps if you return fire
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 06, 2022, 11:45:27 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
13th Amendment to US Constitution is Ratified (1865)
The 13th Amendment to the US Constitution completed the process of abolishing slavery, which had begun with Abraham Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation of 1863. Between February 1 and December 6 of 1865, the required three-fourths of the existing states—then 27 of 36—ratified the proposed amendment, making it law. Slavery offenses were still being prosecuted as recently as 1947.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 06, 2022, 11:50:41 AM
well, ya gotta zig zag

and it helps if you return fire
Who is steering and how do you get a good shot off if the wind is blowing? That POS should never have gotten past the discussion stage
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 06, 2022, 12:07:29 PM
Who is steering and how do you get a good shot off if the wind is blowing? That POS should never have gotten past the discussion stage
I'd guess it was entirely exploratory and little was spent on it.  It may have been proposed for scouting more than shooting, like a balloon.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 06, 2022, 01:46:51 PM
https://youtu.be/I1_W2_nKCvM
Such a fascinating case. I wonder if we'll ever definitively find out what happened to DB Cooper.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 06, 2022, 01:49:23 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/wrKtpoa.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 06, 2022, 02:12:21 PM
how many types of beer did pabst brew back in the good ol daze?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 06, 2022, 02:25:37 PM
I pondered that for a long time and decided it was 5.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 06, 2022, 02:49:29 PM
Such a fascinating case. I wonder if we'll ever definitively find out what happened to DB Cooper.
Watch that video and part one it's long believed they nailed it but the Bureau could never admit it
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 06, 2022, 02:50:10 PM
I pondered that for a long time and decided it was 5.
Not how many you ever drank
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 07, 2022, 08:29:35 AM
81 years ago this morning about 300 Japanese planes from six Japanese carriers bombed the American Naval base at Pearl Harbor and nearby airfields. 

About 2,000 Americans died in the attack, most of them aboard the Battleship Arizona. Arizona suffered a catastrophic magazine explosion when a converted artillery shell was dropped onto it and penetrated the deck armor over the forward magazine. 

Four of the carriers involved in the attack were sunk off Midway six months later. A fifth survived until the Battle of the Philippine Sea in June, 1944 (aka Great Marianis Turkey Shoot) where it was torpedoed and sunk by an American submarine (USS Cavalla). 

The final surviving carrier from the attack survived until the Battle of Leyte Gulf in October, 1944 where it was sunk by American Carrier aircraft. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 07, 2022, 09:47:08 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/GSBglLA.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 07, 2022, 10:34:58 PM
I only personally knew one Pearl Harbor survivor. He was a 17 year old sailor aboard the USS California when it was sunk on December 7, 1941.

When abandon ship was ordered he had to swim under burning oil to Ford Island. Then he was transferred to a Cruiser and sunk again at Coral Sea. By the time he turned 18 he'd been at war for six months and sunk twice. 

By the time I knew him he was about 75 years old and looked like "grandpa". The funny thing was that he still sounded like an 18 year old in the Navy. Seriously, whoever came up with the expression "swore like a sailor" must have known him.  

Anyway, the History Guy's video for today was about the Medalvof Honor recipients from the California so I watched it, wondering if the guy I knew had known any of them. 

One of them was Robert Scott. He grew up in Massillon, Ohio and played football at Massillon Washington HS then attended the Ohio State University before joining the Navy. On December 7, 1941 he was in charge of an air compressor that supplied compressed air needed to operate the 5" antiaircraft guns. 

When the water in his compartment reached about waist deep everyone else left but he said he was going to stay to keep the guns firing. His Medal of Honor (like most) was awarded posthumously. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_R._Scott
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 08, 2022, 09:12:40 AM
By early 1942, it was determined that Oklahoma could be salvaged and that she was a navigational hazard, having rolled into the harbor's navigational channel. Preparations for righting the overturned hull took under eight months to complete. Air was pumped into interior chambers and improvised airlocks built into the ship, forcing 20,000 tonnes (19,684 long tons; 22,046 short tons) of water out of the ship through the torpedo holes. Twenty-one derricks were attached to the upturned hull; each carried high-tensile steel cables that were connected to hydraulic winching machines ashore. On 28 December, Oklahoma was towed into drydock No. 2, at the Pearl Harbor Naval Shipyard. Once in the dock, her main guns, machinery, remaining ammunition, and stores were removed. The severest structural damage on the hull was also repaired to make the ship watertight. US Navy deemed her too old and too heavily damaged to be returned to service. Disaster struck on 17 May, when the ships entered a storm more than 500 miles (800 km) from Hawaii.  The tug Hercules put her searchlight on the former battleship, revealing that she had begun listing heavily. had begun to sink straight down, causing water to swamp the sterns of both tugs. As the battleship sank rapidly, the line from Monarch quickly played out, releasing the tug. However, Hercules' cables did not release until the last possible moment, leaving her tossing and pitching above the grave of the sunken Oklahoma. The battleship's exact location is unknown.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 09, 2022, 09:13:41 AM
On today’s date 138 years ago, Wednesday, December 6, 1884, construction of the Washington Monument was completed when the 100-ounce aluminium apex was set in place atop the pyramidion stone of the monumental obelisk.
☞The aluminium apex of Washington Monument had been cast at Col. Frishmuth’s Foundry at the corner of Rush & Amber Streets in Philadelphia) just 24 days earlier on Wednesday, November 12, 1884.
☞In 1884, aluminium was a rare & precious metal, more expensive than gold or platinum, but that changed in 1888, when noted American inventor Charles Martin Hall (1863-1914), together with noted American metallurgist, industrialist, & financier Alfred E. Hunt (1855-1899), founded the Pittsburgh Reduction Company -- now known as the Aluminum Company of America (ALCOA). By 1914, using his new electric refining process, Charles Martin Hall had brought the cost of aluminium down to 18 cents per pound & it was no longer considered a precious metal.
☞In 1986, Frishmuth’s Foundry at the corner of Rush & Amber Streets in Philadelphia (still producing commercial castings) was declared a historical landmark by ASM International (formerly known as the American Society for Metals). A cast-aluminium plaque affixed to the building bears the citation “Colonel Frishmuth’s Foundry has been designated an Historical Landmark.... The site of the first commercial aluminum-reduction facility in the United States of America & the only producer of aluminum from its ore until the late 1880s.”

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 10, 2022, 09:49:25 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First Nobel Prizes Awarded (1901)
The Nobel Prizes, named after Swedish chemist Alfred Nobel, are awarded annually to those who have made outstanding contributions to the fields of physics, chemistry, physiology or medicine, literature, peace, and—since 1969—economic sciences. Nobel is said to have been inspired to create the prizes after reading his own prematurely published obituary, which condemned his invention of dynamite and referred to him as "the merchant of death."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 11, 2022, 08:55:23 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Q1Exy4O.png)

1913
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 11, 2022, 09:37:21 AM
What the hell is that?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 11, 2022, 09:55:13 AM
A man, a plan, a canal, Panama.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 11, 2022, 10:13:09 AM
That's where they kept King Kong, duh.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 11, 2022, 10:58:32 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/nZXoWzu.png)

1210 AD.  1492 is also famous for the year in which Spain was recovered and the last Muslims were driven out (to be followed by Jews being driven out as well).
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 11, 2022, 11:01:41 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/yIGbsMt.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 11, 2022, 11:22:50 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
King Louis XVI of France Tried for Treason (1792)
Louis XVI was King of France from 1774 to 1792. Shy, dull, and corpulent, he proved unsuited to the task of navigating the complex social and political conflict smoldering in France. His failure to resolve the country's enormous debt touched off a chain of events that culminated in the outbreak of revolution. In 1792, the monarchy was abolished and Louis tried for treason. Found guilty, he was guillotined on January 21, 1793.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 12, 2022, 09:08:21 AM
SITE OF THE DAY:
The Ottoman History Podcast
The Ottoman History Podcast has become one of the largest digital resources for academic discussion of the Ottoman Empire and the modern Middle East. Since 2011, hundreds of contributors have helped shape this unique historical treasure.


https://www.ottomanhistorypodcast.com/ (https://www.ottomanhistorypodcast.com/)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 12, 2022, 10:37:16 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

US Supreme Court Decides Bush v. Gore (2000)
The Supreme Court's decision in this case ended Florida's statewide recount of ballots cast in the 2000 US presidential election and allowed its Secretary of State to certify Republican candidate George W. Bush as the winner of Florida's 25 electoral votes. Despite the fact that Democratic candidate Al Gore had won the popular vote, the decision in Florida gave Bush a majority of the Electoral College and with it the US presidency.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 12, 2022, 11:59:43 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/szqIW50.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 12, 2022, 12:11:10 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/kNXKRLA.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 13, 2022, 07:32:59 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/0rrQYob.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 13, 2022, 08:47:45 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Battle of the River Plate (1939)
In the early months of World War II, the German pocket battleship Admiral Graf Spee had been seeking out and sinking British merchant ships, a practice known as commerce raiding. The British navy tracked down the German ship and engaged it near the River Plate, in what was the first major naval engagement of the war. Outgunned, the Germans sailed for Montevideo in the hopes of making repairs.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 13, 2022, 05:58:52 PM
“Thru These Portals Pass the Army’s Best Horsemen,” reads a sign above a barracks doorway at Fort Robinson, Nebraska. But one doesn’t train a horse without some, ah, awkward moments along the way.
To read more about the Fort's equine history this National Day of the Horse, follow the link below.
“Thru These Portals Pass the Army’s Best Horsemen,” reads a sign above a barracks doorway at Fort Robinson, Nebraska. But one doesn’t train a horse without some, ah, awkward moments along the way. To read more about the Fort's equine history this National Day of the Horse, follow the link below. https://history.nebraska.gov/the-armys-best-horsemen-1940/ (http://“Thru These Portals Pass the Army’s Best Horsemen,” reads a sign above a barracks doorway at Fort Robinson, Nebraska. But one doesn’t train a horse without some, ah, awkward moments along the way. To read more about the Fort's equine history this National Day of the Horse, follow the link below. https://history.nebraska.gov/the-armys-best-horsemen-1940/)




(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/318312508_10159115557773549_3017255012381136668_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Fxi7PCTIamMAX8wrzel&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDTwD3M79U7yw6ZIk70qzaY8k1cExiKfS7ST6qwOfBQcw&oe=639DE980)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 14, 2022, 08:45:51 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Max Planck's Quantum Theory Is Born (1900)
Considered the inventor of quantum theory, Max Planck shocked the science world by showing that atoms emit or absorb energy in bundles, or quanta, not in a continuous stream as taught by Newtonian physics. This insight, along with subsequent developments by Einstein, Bohr, and others, established the revolutionary quantum theory of modern physics and earned Planck the 1918 Nobel Prize in Physics.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 14, 2022, 08:48:16 AM
(https://wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/c6c0386dc6d9530519404f95570fcc8548ed2326)

where h is Planck's constant (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck's_constant), also known as Planck's action quantum (introduced already in 1899), and ν is the frequency of the radiation. Note that the elementary units of energy discussed here are represented by hν and not simply by ν. Physicists now call these quanta photons, and a photon of frequency ν will have its own specific and unique energy. The total energy at that frequency is then equal to hν multiplied by the number of photons at that frequency.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 14, 2022, 10:32:08 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/rP6DtSV.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 14, 2022, 01:29:05 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
Max Planck's Quantum Theory Is Born (1900)
Considered the inventor of quantum theory, Max Planck shocked the science world by showing that atoms emit or absorb energy in bundles, or quanta, not in a continuous stream as taught by Newtonian physics. This insight, along with subsequent developments by Einstein, Bohr, and others, established the revolutionary quantum theory of modern physics and earned Planck the 1918 Nobel Prize in Physics.

Planck time and Planck length is enough to make your head explode.   

Quirky thing about the two pillars of modern physics, general relativity and quantum field theory, is that they're both empirically true verified (at least to a certain extent) and they also don't jive with each other.  I think the reconciliation of the two is the elusive TOE "they" are searching for and has something to do with unifying the 4 fundamental forces.  

In my lifetime I've "seen" the Higgs-Boson particle confirmed, or detected, or however is proper to term that, CMB detected to confirm early inflation of the universe, and Fermat's last theorem which confused mathematicians for a couple hundred years figured out.  All of which I thought was super cool.  I don't know how likely it is, but it'd be cool if physicists figured out how to reconcile the two models before my time is up.  Not that I'd understand it much or that it would change my daily life.  It'd just be cool.   
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 14, 2022, 02:38:16 PM
On December 10, 1917, Boys Town, originally named Father Flanagan's Boys' Home was founded at 25th and Dodge Streets in Omaha, Nebraska by Father Flanagan.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/318243691_10159115521033549_3554581877596053424_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=cKNfoQJfJvkAX9NK9n7&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfB-ni8LFohVB4FEoUZ6Y5qCCwotfqmE2Hor8fcHMOe4pg&oe=639E3F69)

Boys Town was founded as a home and school for homeless, abandoned, neglected or otherwise underprivileged boys, regardless of color or creed, by Father Edward J. Flanagan (1886-1948) on December 10, 1917. The first Father Flanagan’s Boy’s Home at 25th and Dodge Streets in Omaha, Nebraska, sheltered five boys...three from the Juvenile Court and two homeless newsboys.

On October 17, 1921, Father Flanagan brought Overlook Farm outside Omaha, nucleus of today’s Boys Town campus. From here thousands of Boys Town residents have gone on to become productive citizens in all walks of life.

The philosophy of Boys Town is summarized in Father Flanagan’s words: “Our young people are our greatest wealth. Give them a chance and they will give a good account of themselves. No boy wants to be bad. There is only bad environment, bad training, bad example, bad thinking.” In 1972 Boys Town expanded its services by creating the Boys Town Institute to help communicatively handicapped boys and girls, and the Boys Town Center to seek root causes of major youth problems that threaten young people everywhere.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 15, 2022, 12:54:58 PM
ANCIENT CIVILIZATION OF TINY HUMANS HIDDEN IN WYOMING?

The San Pedro Mountains mummy (known informally as Pedro) is a mummy discovered in Wyoming in the 1930s. Due to its unusual physical features and small stature, it has become a part of American folklore as well as ufology and cryptozoology. Mainstream scientific opinion considers "Pedro" to be the mummy of a malformed infant that was born with anencephaly.


https://youtu.be/hXeOx0cBoh8
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 15, 2022, 03:47:20 PM
The greatest college football player ever? Bear Bryant said he was. Even if he did play for Georgia.

Charley Trippi was born in Pennsylvania in 1920. The young athlete caught the attention of a former Georgia Bulldog who ran a Coca-Cola bottling plant near Trippi’s home. He offered Trippi a scholarship to play football at UGA, where Trippi and Frank Sinkwich formed one of college football’s most fearsome backfields.
The Bulldogs went undefeated in 1941 and won the Orange Bowl. The next year Sinkwich and Trippi led Georgia to the SEC championship and a Rose Bowl victory over UCLA. Trippi took Most Valuable Player honors. Then he took two and a half years to serve in the Army Air Corps in World War II, before he returned to Georgia to lead the Bulldogs to another SEC championship, and won the Maxwell Award as National Player of the Year.
Trippi went on to a stellar career in the NFL. Elected to both the College and Pro Football Halls of Fame, this Bulldog gridiron legend was born in Pennsylvania on December 14, 1920, Today in Georgia History.


(https://i.imgur.com/hmTxdSB.png)

He just recently passed away at 99.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 16, 2022, 02:23:50 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Battle of the Bulge Begins (1944)
This major German counter-offensive on the Western Front during World War II was the largest and bloodiest battle fought by the US Army during the war. Taking advantage of foggy weather, German forces attacked the thinly held American front in the Belgian Ardennes sector, catching the Allied forces unprepared. The Germans penetrated deep into the Allied lines. However, an American force held out at Bastogne, and the arrival of reinforcements turned the tide.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 16, 2022, 06:22:05 PM
First Special Service Force: The ‘Devil’s Brigade’ That Struck Fear Into the Germans
The various Special Forces groups of the Second World War played a major role in the evolution of elite units in the decades to follow. This is particularly true of the First Special Service Force (1SSF) - also known as the "Devil's Brigade" - who operated in the European Theater between 1942-44.

A combined Canadian-American unit, its formation influenced the evolution of commando groups in both nations: the Canadian Special Operations Regiment (CSOR), Canadian Special Operations Forces Command (CANSOFCOM) and the 1st Special Forces Command (Airborne), US Army Special Operations Command (USASOC). Both claim to be direct descendants of the First Special Service Force.

Although it only operated for approximately two years, this early Special Forces unit had a profound impact on the war.


The creation of the First Special Service Force can be credited to Geoffrey Pyke of the British Combined Operations Command, who wanted to put together a curated, elite force that could operate in winter conditions and behind enemy lines in Norway, Romania and the Italian Alps. He proposed Project Plough in March 1942, with the goal of establishing a commando base on a glacial plateau in Norway.

Pyke's idea was well-received. However, due to the already high demand on the resources of the Combined Operations Headquarters, officials offered the proposal to the United States. Gen. George Marshall, Chief of Staff of the US Army, readily accepted.

For the project, the US government wanted a special vehicle - a tank with spiked treads - to be developed, so the men within this specialized unit could move quickly through the snowy regions where they'd be deployed. This resulted in the production of the M29 Weasel, a tracked vehicle that could traverse through a variety of conditions (snow, desert and mud) and tow loads over terrain that traditional wheeled vehicles couldn't.


Despite the Americans accepting responsibility for Project Plough, there was one person who was unhappy about the idea: Maj. Robert T. Frederick of the Operations Division of the US General Staff. He thought the proposed unit wouldn't do enough damage to warrant its use on the frontlines. He was also concerned that:

The US Army had established unrealistic objectives for the size of the force.
A small force would be easily outnumbered.
There was no way to get the troops out once their mission was complete; all equipment would have to be abandoned.
There weren't enough aircraft available to drop the men into Norway.
Aircraft would constantly need to drop supplies for the men.
Despite his objections, Frederick's superiors were unwilling to deviate from the original plan, and, instead, put him in charge of raising and commanding the force, now with the rank of colonel. He wasn't the first to take control of Project Plough. Lt. Col. Howard R. Johnson had been removed from the position after arguing with his superiors over the unit's feasibility.


Robert Frederick quickly took charge. By July 1942, he'd cut Geoffrey Pyke out of the planning for Project Plough and was completing the necessary recruitment for what became the First Special Service Force.

While famously a Canadian-American endeavor, Norwegian commandos were initially supposed to be included, as Norway was among the nations deemed best suited to clandestine winter warfare. However, there was considered to be a lack of suitable Norwegian soldiers, so, instead, the Canadians were put as second in command, while providing half the officers and a third of enlisted men.

Recruits from both countries thought they were joining a parachute unit and were carefully selected. Tom Gilday, the Canadian Army's only ski instructor at the time, was appointed as one of the battalion commanders and told to recruit volunteers. He selected "trappers and hunters, bushmen, farmers' sons, all good individual outdoor types who would know their way around in the woods and in the country and in all kinds of weather conditions."

The Americans posted recruitment letters, looking for "single men, aged 21–35 with three or more years of grammar school. Occupations preferred: rangers, lumberjacks, northwoodsmen, hunters, prospectors, explorers and game wardens." Camps in the west were also scouted for possible recruits.


Due to the tight timeline to get the First Special Service Force into the field, the training period in Helena, Montana was intensive. In fact, volunteers began parachuting after only 48 hours. In addition, they became proficient in weapons and demolition, small unit tactics and underwent rigorous physical training. There was also an emphasis placed on problem-solving, rock climbing, skiing, training in the M29 Weasel and learning how best to adapt to cold climates.

Training also heavily focused on combat and physicality. The men regularly completed 97-km marches, learned how to use enemy weapons, practiced hand-to-hand combat, learned how to partake in amphibious warfare and received extensive ski training from Norwegian instructors until they could ski in formation at the same standard as those in the Norwegian Army.

By the time the 1SSF embarked on its first mission, every member was a qualified parachutist and could allegedly beat the best US Marine Corps units at their own drills.


The First Special Service Force took part in four engagements during the Second World War, totaling 22 battles, never losing a single one. Their first mission was to assist in the invasion of Kiska, as part of the Aleutian Islands Campaign. When they landed, however, they realized the Japanese had already evacuated. They subsequently returned to the US.

Later that year, it was decided that, despite training for this very purpose, the 1SSF wouldn't be sent to Norway. Instead, the unit was sent to Italy in October 1943, under the purview of the US Fifth Army. The men arrived on November 19, 1943 and joined the US 36th Infantry Division. They were tasked with taking the German positions at Monte La Difensa and Monte La Remetanea, controlled by the 104th Panzergrenadier Regiment, as no one else had been able to do so.

Between December 3-6, the 1SSF took Monte La Difensa, with Monte La Remetanea being  captured between December 6-9. By early January 1944, the unit had captured Monte Sambúcaro and Monte Vischiataro. This allowed the 1SSF to earn an impressive reputation, as they'd had accomplished something no other unit had. However, they'd suffered a 77 percent casualty rate in doing so.


The First Special Service Force remained in Italy for their first major offensive, landing on the Anzio beachhead on February 1, 1944 as a replacement for the 1st and 3rd Ranger Battalions, which had suffered severe losses during the Battle of Cisterna. The unit's members were tasked with holding the position and raiding when possible, something they excelled at.

The Germans had a difficult time engaging with the 1SSF and even pulled their units back in the Mussolini Canal sector due to the aggressive nature of their patrols. The continuous night raids also forced the enemy to fortify its position more than planned, with the unit's members sometimes going as deep as 1,500 feet behind the German lines.

The 1SSF made even more of a name for themselves during this time period, particularly among the Germans. They acted as though they were a much larger force than they actually were, a strategic maneuver ordered by Robert Frederick.

The "Black Devils," as they were called by the enemy, carried stickers with their unit patch and the slogan - "the worst is yet to come" - written in German. They stuck these on the bodies of those they killed, as well as on German fortifications. The 1SSF's reputation was so fierce that, prior to engaging with the group, the German soldiers were informed they would be "fighting an elite Canadian-American Force. They are treacherous, unmerciful and clever. You cannot afford to relax."

At Anzio, the 1SSF fought for 99 days before being relieved, only to move on to Monte Arrestino and Rocca Massima. At the beginning of June 1944, they were one of the first Allied units to enter Rome.


The final fight of the First Special Service Force was in France as part of Operation Dragoon. At the beginning of August 1944, the unit captured five fortifications on the island of Port-Cros, after which they were attached to the 1st Airborne Task Force, US Seventh Army to defend the border between France and Italy.

On December 5, 1944, the 1SSF was disbanded in Villeneuve-Loubet, France. The unit consisted of approximately 1,800 men, and was credited with roughly 12,000 German casualties and the capture of around 7,000 enemy prisoners. It also had an attrition rate of over 600 percent. Many of the men, including Canadian Tommy Prince, were honored for their service.

After the 1SSF came to an end, the group's members were redistributed. The Canadians were moved back to their national units (primarily the 1st Canadian Parachute Battalion), while the Americans were split between airborne divisions and the newly-formed 474th Infantry Regiment.

Following the war, the lessons learned from the unit were applied to American and Canadian Special Forces, including the US Navy SEALS and US Army's Green Berets. Each year on December 5, the 1SSF is remembered by Special Forces units in both the US and Canada, who perform a pass in review, a parachute jump and hold a formal ball.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 16, 2022, 10:05:56 PM
The 3rd MOST LIKED Instagram Post of 2022: Double leg amputee railway signalman, James Wide, photographed working alongside his pet and assistant, Jack Baboon, in Cape Town during the 1880s. James Wide purchased a chacma baboon in 1881 and trained him to push his wheelchair and operate the railway signals under supervision.

Sitting 3rd in the top 15 most popular colorized photos of 2022 is this work by Angelina Karpunina, which received over 36 thousand likes in the year.
Click the Link Below to see the list of the most liked HistoryColored Instagram Posts of 2022, which will be updated daily as the photos are revealed!

https://historycolored.com/.../top-15-most-popular.../ (https://historycolored.com/.../top-15-most-popular.../)


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/319053511_677555910686879_5999851398856298176_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=H16eou8Q-xoAX-7kPLn&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAKpFM928zDdILD4p0j8yzXtS7BrlGeZW2SlhgcETXSpg&oe=63A2FDC5)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 17, 2022, 11:38:18 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/63uhYLl.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 17, 2022, 01:44:17 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ALVepj1.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 17, 2022, 01:47:06 PM
Ol' Jack says "That's groovy baby. That's really groovy you give me a ticket on the next flight out!"
He said, "Ticket on the next flight out?! This is nineteen hundred n' thirteen. Why the Wright brothers haven't even started foolin' around with Kitty Hawk yet"
He said, "Uh ... who's she?"


https://youtu.be/4XFYMjkFYPg
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 17, 2022, 01:48:39 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/63uhYLl.png)
Looks like a giant crying rat.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 18, 2022, 09:32:32 AM
Abraham Lincoln is the only president to receive a patent (# 6469). He was the first president to have a beard, at the request from a little girl named Gracie Bedell. The first child to die in the White House was Abraham Lincoln’s 12-year old son, Willie. 


"Perhaps a man's character is like a tree and his reputation like its shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing." - Abraham Lincoln
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 18, 2022, 10:17:14 AM
https://youtu.be/4XFYMjkFYPg
nails on a chalkboard for 13 minutes?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 18, 2022, 10:47:00 AM
nope, one of my favorites

another classic by Jaime

https://youtu.be/2S_tgHact_4
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 19, 2022, 09:35:11 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

President Taft Pardons William H. Van Schaick (1912)
More than 1,000 people died when the General Slocum, a passenger steamship, caught fire in New York's East River in 1904. It was the city's worst loss-of-life disaster until the attacks of September 11, 2001. Van Schaick, the ship's captain, was convicted of negligence and failure to maintain fire safety equipment and received a 10-year sentence. He was paroled after serving 3½ years in prison and later pardoned by President Taft.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 19, 2022, 09:45:29 AM
Well he should have know but still sounds like a fall guy for the cororate creeps
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 20, 2022, 09:38:34 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Samuel Mudd (1833)
Mudd was the physician who set the broken leg of John Wilkes Booth, Abraham Lincoln's assassin, just hours after Booth fled the crime scene. A Confederate sympathizer, Mudd was accused of aiding Booth's escape and tried along with Booth's other accomplices. Throughout, Mudd maintained that he had not recognized the disguised Booth, an acquaintance of his, and had been unaware of the assassination, but he was nonetheless convicted and sentenced to life imprisonment.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 23, 2022, 09:54:37 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

George Washington Resigns as Commander-in-Chief (1783)
After demonstrating exemplary leadership as commander-in-chief of the Continental Army during the American Revolution, George Washington resigned his commission and retired to Mount Vernon, Virginia. By resigning his military post, Washington established the important precedent that civilian-elected officials possess ultimate authority over the armed forces. After a brief retirement, he was elected the country's first president.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 23, 2022, 11:10:48 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

George Washington Resigns as Commander-in-Chief (1783)
After demonstrating exemplary leadership as commander-in-chief of the Continental Army during the American Revolution, George Washington resigned his commission and retired to Mount Vernon, Virginia. By resigning his military post, Washington established the important precedent that civilian-elected officials possess ultimate authority over the armed forces. After a brief retirement, he was elected the country's first president.
On this occasion he had a ceremony and dinner at an Inn in NYC. The Inn still exists and I had a pint there when I was in the City for the BTT at MSG a few years ago. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 25, 2022, 09:20:27 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The "Christmas Truce" of World War I (1914)
As Christmas approached in the early months of World War I, British and German troops stationed on the Western Front took it upon themselves to stage an unofficial cease-fire. Roughly 100,000 troops participated in this inspiring display of humanity. Over the course of the brief cessation of hostilities, enemy soldiers caroled together, exchanged gifts, played football, and even attended funerals together.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 27, 2022, 09:34:31 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Charles Darwin Sets Sail on HMS Beagle (1831)
The theory of evolution, which Darwin first expressed in On the Origin of Species, was the result of his discoveries as a naturalist on board the HMS Beagle. His book explained evolution through the principles of natural selection and aroused widespread debate among scientists and religious leaders. Darwin spent the rest of his life studying the results of that expedition and developing his theory of evolution.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 31, 2022, 12:38:50 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Roberto Clemente Dies in Plane Crash (1972)
Right fielder Roberto Clemente played 18 seasons with the Pittsburgh Pirates, winning the National League MVP award in 1966, as well as 12 Gold Glove Awards throughout his career. In 1973, he became the first Latin-American player to be inducted into the Hall of Fame. Clemente, who was dedicated to charity work, was traveling to Nicaragua to deliver aid to earthquake victims when his plane crashed off the coast of Puerto Rico.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 02, 2023, 08:36:35 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The "Trial of the Century" Begins (1935)
Bruno Hauptmann, a German immigrant to the US, was convicted and sentenced to death for the kidnapping and murder of Charles Augustus Lindbergh, Jr., the young son of famed pilot Charles Lindbergh. Hauptmann had been found with part of the ransom money, but the case against him has since come under scrutiny. It has been alleged that some of the evidence used to convict him was planted and that false testimony was given at the trial.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 03, 2023, 08:25:52 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Curse of the Bambino (1920)
According to baseball lore, the Boston Red Sox became cursed after Babe Ruth, the "Bambino," was sold to the New York Yankees in 1920. Before the sale, the Red Sox had won five World Series titles. After the sale, Ruth became a superstar, and the previously lackluster Yankees went on to win 27 World Series titles. The Red Sox, meanwhile, failed to win another series for more than eight decades, finally breaking the "curse" in 2004.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 03, 2023, 07:53:25 PM
THE TOMAHAWK;
The Tomahawk, an offensive tool par excellence together with a bow and arrows at the time of the first clashes between whites and Indians (and even earlier, in the daily use of the various tribes), is the combat hatchet of Native Americans. In truth it was used for a very long time also by the European colonists as it had numerous merits and, among these, there was that it also lent itself to being launched.
The name, Tomahawk, is the exact transliteration in English of the term used by the Algonquin of Virginia from which the whites heard about it for the first time.
Originally the head of the Indian tomahawk was made with a simple piece of worked stone, or with the bison's jaw, but with the arrival of the Europeans and the start of commercial exchanges everything changed and from that moment only iron or brass and heads were used pre-packaged by European craftsmen or settlers.
The handle of the tomahawks was usually less than 60 centimeters long and made of Carya wood. The head had a weight that could go from about 250 to 550 grams, with a blade no longer than 10 centimeters. At the opposite end of the blade there could be a small hammer, a point or simply be rounded.
In the various museums of indigenous art there are many examples of Indian tomahawks, mainly with the metal head and in the different shapes just described.
The stone heads were made of soapstone, and some specimens used in rituals were carved.
The Europeans made some specimens both in stone and metal with the hollow handle and a pipe integrated in the head to be able to smoke tobacco.
the tomahawk was predominantly an offensive tool; he could strike with fair precision from a good distance and was silent, as well as tremendously effective. Of course, a non-offensive use could not be missing, for example for cutting wood or cleaning the long poles for the tents of the Plains Indians.


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/323378343_1321451692027467_1459453702115653932_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=us56WWbWbi0AX9n2Egt&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCy9e9t25wSaez6RxRtQB99f3K-_N-e7XGVEDlrozEB-A&oe=63B8D44F)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 04, 2023, 08:22:19 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Sputnik 1 Falls to Earth (1958)
Sputnik 1 was the first artificial satellite to be put into orbit. It was launched by the Soviet Union in October 1957 and acted as the starting gun for the Space Race. The first Sputnik, Russian for "fellow traveler," was able to transmit radio signals for 22 days, emitting a beeping sound heard around the world. The US created NASA in October 1958, largely in response to this momentous occasion.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 04, 2023, 08:36:58 AM
𝐉𝐚𝐧𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐲 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐅𝐞𝐛𝐫𝐮𝐚𝐫𝐲 𝐚𝐫𝐞 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐧𝐞𝐰𝐞𝐬𝐭 𝐦𝐨𝐧𝐭𝐡𝐬 𝐨𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐜𝐚𝐥𝐞𝐧𝐝𝐚𝐫, they were originally inserted as the 11th month and 12th months of the year on the old calendar. The old Roman year had only 10 months with December as its last month. The root of the word, ‘dec’ is derived from Latin and Greek translating as the number ten. Accordingly, the months after the harvest were simply numbered. Sept/seven, Oct/eight Nov/nine & Dec/ten.
The -ber element in four Latin month names is probably from -bris, an adjectival suffix. Therefore, the original could have been decemo-membris from -mensris from mens- meaning ‘month’. Menses and menstruation (monthlies) are also derived from mens.
While the sun gives us our calendar year the moon gives us the months in fact the word ‘month’ is named after the moon. It is a period calculated to be one complete phase of the moon. There are roughly 12 moon phases in a calendar year.
The average calendrical month, which is one twelfth of a year, about 30.44 days, while the Moon's phase (synodic) cycle repeats on average every 29.53 days. Therefore, the timing of the Moon's phases shifts by an average of almost one day for each successive month.
The seven-day week also comes from the lunar cycle due to the four principal lunar phases namely the first quarter, full moon, last quarter, and new moon. Each of the four lunar phases is roughly 7 days or roughly 7.38 days but each varies slightly due to lunar apogee and perigee. The Moon's orbit is fiendishly difficult to explain, so for more information lookup the phrase ‘barycentre’.
Many centuries of observational studies have yielded these figures but in ancient times these abilities lay in the distant future. So the Romans simply counted ten months from the start of their year at the vernal equinox but were flummoxed when deciding to whether or not to add to add two or three months at the end.
Eventually January (Ianuarius) together with February (Februarius) were inserted on the calendar around 700BC. March remained the beginning of the year until 153BC when it was designated to January. This had the effect of shifting the months out of kilter with their literal meanings by two months! Everyone mistakenly believes that his was due to the insertion of July and August. The month Quintilis (5th) was renamed July in honour of Julius Caesar in 44BC and Sextilis (6th) was renamed August in honour of Augustus in 8BC.
So today, we have a lunar calendar superimposed on a solar calendar but the two cycles are not synchronous. Reconciling the two was one of the greatest challenges faced by scholars and was only solved in with the calendar reforms under Pope Gregory in 1582.
January 1st was not universally accepted as the start of the New Year and many countries continued to observe New Year at various times. For example the Byzantine Empire or the old Eastern Roman Empire celebrated New Year on September 1st.
After the fall of the Western Roman Empire the start of the New Year went back to March 25. This date remains the start of the financial new year in many territories including the UK but is now April 5th because 10 days were annulled as part of the Gregorian calendar reforms.
The 1582 calendar firmly place January the first as the start of the New Year. However, many protestant countries were slow to adopt a “Catholic” calendar. Ireland, for example, under the control of Protestant England, held its New Year celebrations on the Feast of the Annunciation on March 25th. It continued up until 1752 when the English finally relented and started using the Gregorian calendar. It should be noted that most countries in Western Europe had officially adopted January 1st as New Year's Day even before they adopted the Gregorian calendar.
History students might be bemused to find that the English parliamentary record lists the execution of King Charles I as having occurred on the 30th of January 1648 and not 1649. 1648 did not end until the 24th of March but historians have retrospectively adjusted the start of the year to 1 January and so record the execution as occurring in 1649.
The month of January is named in honour of the god Janus by the Romans who is the god of beginnings and transitions, thence also of gates, doors, doorways, endings and time. He is usually a two-faced god since he looks to the future and the past. Early Romans believed that the beginning of each day, month and year were sacred to Janus. They thought he opened the gates of heaven at dawn to let out the morning and closed them at dusk. The image here is of a Celtic idol with two faces (Janus form) in Caldragh graveyard on Boa Island in Lower Lough Erne, Co. Fermanagh

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 04, 2023, 08:47:49 AM
so, Jesus was born on June 31st
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 05, 2023, 07:10:28 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/v09YauD.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 05, 2023, 10:58:48 AM
so, Jesus was born on June 31st
Yep.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 05, 2023, 11:30:43 AM
Today in history: Jan. 5

In 1933, construction began on the Golden Gate Bridge


(https://external.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/emg1/v/t13/17096936171562143229?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com%2Fnptelegraph.com%2Fcontent%2Ftncms%2Fassets%2Fv3%2Feditorial%2Fe%2Ff9%2Fef9cd25c-2708-5791-8a1b-94f09cd90faf%2F63b4aa324e3af.preview.jpg%3Fcrop%3D1632%252C857%252C0%252C206%26resize%3D1200%252C630%26order%3Dcrop%252Cresize&fb_obo=1&utld=townnews.com&stp=c0.5000x0.5000f_dst-jpg_flffffff_p500x261_q75&ccb=13-1&oh=06_AbHSmryPvpiigJW6gKV_nA5ssWtS7eSWgGrks3NQUFmVsw&oe=63B8DFAA&_nc_sid=a349d5)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on January 05, 2023, 05:08:49 PM
I knew the calendar had changed over the years, but I never really knew the back-story.  I think too they added a bunch of days or subtracted a bunch of days to account for the leap years that were missed.  

So my question is when a historical date is given, do they give the original date, or the modified date?  I never really thought about it.  It's kinda like saying a soda was 5 cents in 1920, it cost what it cost no matter what it costs now.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 05, 2023, 05:40:49 PM
So my question is when a historical date is given, do they give the original date, or the modified date?  
does it matter?

it's a number

now, if you had a time machine, it might be important
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 07, 2023, 08:57:06 AM
1932, FDR meets with Utah Governor George Dern. The former Husker tackle and team captain, would serve as the U.S. Secretary of War. GBR!!!

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/322559312_660740625797270_5383280754058658600_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=QiTngBQs27MAX-K5m_u&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCPQiJe_72AiIw9wd5cUm0IJzaNKNKaHn4355B8yfeHhA&oe=63BD7FE3)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 08, 2023, 08:37:28 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

US President Woodrow Wilson Introduces His Fourteen Points (1918)
In 1918, Wilson presented to the US Congress his Fourteen Points as a guide for a peace settlement after World War I. He emphasized "open covenants of peace, openly arrived at," to change the usual method of secret diplomacy practiced in Europe. Wilson's idealistic message also laid the groundwork for the creation of the League of Nations.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 08, 2023, 11:02:36 AM
History Nebraska

The world's second-largest hydraulic-fill dam when constructed, the Kingsley Dam spillway began generating electricity in 1941, four years after this photo was taken.
A few years after completion, Lake C.W. McConaughy was providing irrigation water through more than 500 miles of canals and laterals.


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/322276244_1560057727843426_3517597919697189117_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=iHP5jm09aYgAX8nqQKk&tn=1aDD2LH8MXkA8yGv&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBVxz1_aDt2rd8g5Ftt8zcIX7eY71GqpA4zVTmyy-NpbA&oe=63BFBA77)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 08, 2023, 12:35:26 PM
The Dakota fire hole system was named after the Dakota Native American people who developed the technology centuries ago. The system originated in today's North and South Dakota, Wisconsin and Minnesota. It was designed to combat the constant wind that blew over the Plains, and to prevent prairie fires which would scare off the bison. The Dakota fire pit was made up of two holes, a bigger and a smaller one which were connected by a tunnel. The fire was lit in the bigger hole, and the tunnel provided a constant feed of fresh oxygen into the fire, making for an almost smokeless fire. Since the fire was underground and protected from the elements, it was concealed and burned much hotter, making it ideal for stealth camping and cooking. This is why the U.S. army has been teaching its soldiers how to build a Dakota fire hole since the Vietnam war, where it was first used by U.S. soldiers to stay hidden from the Viet-Cong in the Vietnamese jungles. The only downside to the Dakota fire pit is that it needs to be built on rich and firm soil, as it is almost impossible to make one in frozen, sandy or heavy soil. The Dakota had the benefit of living in the grassy North American Plains, where the soil was ideal for the Dakota fire pit.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/321439133_589809112984750_8776622550932262176_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=ke4lmQsmC0IAX9NrJq7&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBnCjJ2q7ncICnEgQL2_1_7o_ibc7NPH_yhoff2W8G70A&oe=63BF5F71)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 13, 2023, 09:00:07 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

First Mickey Mouse Comic Strip Released (1930)
Mickey Mouse's first incarnation of sorts was as Oswald the Lucky Rabbit, created by Walt Disney for Universal Studios. After Universal threatened to cut Disney's budget, Disney reorganized his studio and created Mickey to keep his company afloat. Mickey was rather mischievous in early cartoons but later evolved into a well-meaning everyman. Today, he is one of the most recognizable cartoon characters in the world.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 14, 2023, 09:04:02 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Marilyn Monroe Marries Joe DiMaggio (1954)
Marilyn Monroe married baseball star Joe DiMaggio after a courtship that captivated America. Their marriage lasted just nine months, collapsing amid reports of DiMaggio's growing possessiveness. Monroe then wed playwright Arthur Miller, but after divorcing him in 1961, she became close again with DiMaggio. When Monroe was found dead in August 1962, it was DiMaggio who made the funeral arrangements.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 16, 2023, 08:08:47 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/0wtUdyh.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 16, 2023, 08:35:48 AM
What could possibly go wrong?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 16, 2023, 08:43:11 AM
or on Sundays!!!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 16, 2023, 08:43:32 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Ivan the Terrible Crowned Tsar of Russia (1547)
Following his parents' deaths, Ivan IV became the first ruler of Russia to assume the title "czar" and to pursue a czarist autocracy by limiting the power of the Russian nobility. He also expanded Russian influence by conquering Kazan and Astrakhan, acquiring Siberia, and seeking better access to the Baltic Sea. A serious illness and the death of his wife, however, caused Ivan to become increasingly tyrannical and volatile.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 16, 2023, 09:01:46 AM
Czar and Kaiser derive from Caesar…
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 16, 2023, 10:29:26 AM
WTF is wrong with that place Ivan/Stalin/Putin - makes the American Mob look like Mr Rodger's Neighborhood or Brandon and his Administration
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 16, 2023, 12:58:04 PM
On this day in history, Jan. 16, 1919, Prohibition is ratified, banning booze in the United States | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/this-day-history-jan-16-1919-prohibition-ratified-banning-booze-united-states)


"It is the only amendment that limited the rights of U.S citizens rather than restrict the powers of government, as was originally intended by the Bill of Rights."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 16, 2023, 01:27:09 PM
What idiot would vote in someone nicknamed "the Terrible"?!?!?!  Pffffft.  :57:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on January 16, 2023, 07:14:18 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/0wtUdyh.jpg)
And remember, it was probably served room temp as they didn't have much refrigeration in those days.  Had to be before prohibition I think, so pre-1920's.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on January 16, 2023, 07:45:43 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
Marilyn Monroe Marries Joe DiMaggio (1954)
Marilyn Monroe married baseball star Joe DiMaggio after a courtship that captivated America. Their marriage lasted just nine months, collapsing amid reports of DiMaggio's growing possessiveness. Monroe then wed playwright Arthur Miller, but after divorcing him in 1961, she became close again with DiMaggio. When Monroe was found dead in August 1962, it was DiMaggio who made the funeral arrangements.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeuxP5HY070
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 17, 2023, 07:33:55 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Matt Drudge Breaks the Lewinsky Scandal (1998)
Matt Drudge is the proprietor of the popular Drudge Report website that gained notoriety for breaking a series of news reports ahead of the mainstream media. He won fame for his coverage of the Monica Lewinsky affair, a scandal that led to the impeachment of US President Bill Clinton. He was inspired to start his news site after becoming privy to insider gossip at CBS studios while working as its gift shop manager.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 18, 2023, 08:42:07 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Jim Thorpe's Olympic Medals Posthumously Restored (1983)
Jim Thorpe, an American Olympian, excelled at every sport he played and is deemed one of the greatest athletes in modern sports history. He won Olympic gold medals in the pentathlon and decathlon but was stripped of his awards amid reports that he had played minor league baseball before participating in the 1912 Olympic Games. At the time, strict rules barred professional athletes from Olympic competition.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 20, 2023, 09:49:54 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Iran Releases 52 American Hostages (1981)
The overthrow of Muhammad Reza Shah Pahlevi of Iran by an Islamic revolutionary government in February 1979 led to a steady deterioration in Iranian-American relations. In September of that year, the exiled shah was allowed into the US for medical treatment, prompting Iranian students called the Muslim Student Followers of the Imam's Line to seize the US embassy in Tehran and take 66 Americans hostage. After 444 days, the last 52 hostages were released.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 20, 2023, 10:37:01 PM

The Cornhusker Hotel's Reuben sandwich.


So much has been written on when and where the sandwich came to be. New York has laid claim to the Reuben as the brainchild of a deli owner, while Omaha claims to have pinpointed the sandwich's origins to the Blackstone Hotel, along with the tale that a late-night poker game led to some hunger pangs and a call to the kitchen for the chef to rustle up some provisions.

It was then and there that the chef, or so we're told, created the first Reuben.

Not true, says Cox and her sister, Sally Guenzel.

The first Reuben, they insist, was created in Lincoln more than a decade before America entered World War II — at the Cornhusker Hotel — by their father, a man named Reinhold Rebensdorf.

"He never wanted any notoriety for it, but that's the story," Guenzel says.

* * *

Rebensdorf, a first-generation American, was born in Harbine, a tiny village southwest of Beatrice. His German parents, George and Marie, escaped Russia in 1906 and migrated to Nebraska after George was promised a job building railroad boxcars.

George died in a train accident in 1913, when Rebensdorf was 11 months old. His mother remarried and relocated to Lincoln's South Bottoms, where he became part of a blended family that included more than a dozen children.

At the age of 8, in order to help the family make ends meet, he was put on a bus to Paxton, where he worked in the sugar beet fields.

He'd come home and go back to school in the winters, but he never went further than the eighth grade.

In 1930, the 18-year-old was hired as a sandwich boy at the Cornhusker. Over the years, he would be promoted to sous chef and, after returning from serving in the U.S. Navy during World War II, was hired as the Cornhusker's executive chef in 1946 — a job he held until 1970.

In his tenure as executive chef, he did everything. He designed the menus, ran the kitchens, did the ordering and even sculpted the ice carvings, a skill he had acquired over the years.

He also appeared on "The Tonight Show," starring Jack Paar, and cooked for many famous people, including eventual President Richard Nixon in 1956.

He left the Cornhusker to open the Nebraska Club and ran it until 1980, when he retired at the age of 69. Retirement was a relative term, though. His idle days were filled with catering jobs for various friends and community organizations like the Shriners and the Lincoln Community Playhouse — "really, he'd cook for anyone he knew," Cox said.

Rebensdorf, who died in April 1994 just days short of his 82nd birthday, loved Lincoln and his job. More than anything, he adored creating great food and seeing the impact it had on the people who ate it.

Rebensdorf, who went by the nickname "Reine," made a to-die-for black-bottom pie, as well as a corned beef hash that was renowned. He also won awards for his turkey galantine.

Still, it was the sandwich he created years before — long before the war — while still working as a sandwich boy that could be considered his legacy.

* * *

Rebensdorf proved to be quite adept at the job — so competent that he was approached early on by AQ Schimmel, the oldest of four brothers who owned and operated a string of Midwest hotels that included both the Cornhusker and the Blackstone.

"He told me AQ Schimmel came to him and asked him to develop a sandwich for a new restaurant at the Blackstone Hotel," Guenzel said.

"He developed it (the Reuben) and they gave him credit for it," Cox said.

That was more than enough for Rebensdorf, a man who had escaped working the beet fields and had found his true life calling.

* * *

The great Reuben debate gets contentious when food historians begin going back in time to check who made it first.

It was considered an indisputable fact here in Nebraska that the first Reuben was served sometime in the late 1920s at the Blackstone in Omaha.

The tale goes that a group of men gathered at the hotel to play poker when one of them, a fella named Reuben Kulakofsky, grew hungry in the midst of the game and called down to the kitchen for a snack.


The chef created a sandwich of corned beef, Swiss cheese, sauerkraut and Russian dressing, pressed hot on rye bread.

And the rest is history.

That is, until the food historians in New York tried to flex their muscles. One such authority, Andrew Smith, an author of 24 books, disputed the Blackstone theory with a letter to the editor of the New York Times a few years after Elizabeth Weil, a great-granddaughter in the Schimmel family, wrote in 2016 about the poker game at the Blackstone and the sandwich it inspired.

Smith claims that the sandwich was first made in 1914 — a decade before — by Arnold Reuben at his sandwich shop in New York City, and he and Weil fought for years trying to prove the other wrong.

Rebensdorf's daughters claim both of them are wrong, that the sandwich was actually made first — in Lincoln by their father — in the early 1930s.

"It's what we have always known," said Cox, who has framed old menus from the Cornhusker and has given them to her children to keep alive their grandfather's memory.

* * *
So how did this fly below the radar for so long? Why is it that Lincoln stayed mum while New York and Omaha were fighting over the birthright to a sandwich that has gained worldwide notoriety and is featured on the menus of virtually every restaurant in America?

That's just Lincoln, Doug Evans says.

"To the people in Lincoln, it’s just not as important to them as it is to the people of Omaha or New York," he said. "Sauerkraut and (Russian) dressing? Big whoop.

"We’re not pretentious here. Omaha is different. It’s much more pretentious. I think that’s why the Schimmels, who had hotels all over the Midwest, chose to live here. This was their home base."


Perhaps the only debate you'll get in the Capital City is how it should be served: cold or grilled.

Sally Guenzel has adapted. She's tried the grilled version and can appreciate the goodness in the way the Swiss cheese melts into the other ingredients, causing the corned beef and sauerkraut to meld together, while also providing the much-appreciated crunch to the rye bread.

"I like them grilled, but they were meant to be served cold," she said.

Cox takes a by-the-book method when making Reubens. Like her father, she takes the time to squeeze all of the liquid out of the sauerkraut and then marinates it in the dressing overnight. She'd never consider using a skillet or panini press in the preparation.

"He meant it to be served cold," she says, noting that she last made six loaves' worth of Reubens on Christmas Day. "So that's how I serve them."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 20, 2023, 11:36:13 PM
Well his parents did leave Russia so that's where the idea for the dressing came from. Sounds legit,might have to take a road trip. In high school I worked a big suburban restaurant known for the old world artisan meat/cheeses/bread they use to roast/broil pork loin,prime rib,black forest ham,amish raised turkey - cooked on site - you name it.Place had a big restuarant w.buffet,a bar and Banquet Rooms that held 250 guests.plus a catering service. lotta hotties working there.

  The best thing was all the imported kegs of beer - this was before the Craft beers so that was a real treat.Anyway some of the best sandwiches ever like the rueben,french dips,Club Sandwich -smoked turkey and bacon,BLT's. When making the sammiches we always used a steamer for the meat/cheeses great taste w/o the grease. They even had Goose liver & onion on rye or pumpernickel by request only . i made some of the greatest dagwoods known to man and would wash them down with Dab/LowenBrau/carlsburg/Heineken/Amstel/Tuborg/Stella/Grolsch/Hoegaarden.When i was 16 picked up the the tricks from the older kids working there.They had these tall dark green glasses they served soda in so it disguised it and shove it out of the way.

I use to layer different meats between differnt cheeses like ham then brick,then corned beef,then swiss,then turkey then monterey jack then roast beef then smoked goulda grilled the rye,french or pumpernickel bread.Could throw on some grilled peppers/onions/shrooms too if there was room. Big deli claussen like pickles. Never gained a pound either as i was playing football and working alot. It was the studying i found irksome - good times
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 21, 2023, 08:52:36 AM
usually over the sink, obviously
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 21, 2023, 08:53:06 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Vladimir Lenin Dies (1924)
A Russian revolutionary and leader of the Bolshevik party, Lenin was a main player in the overthrow of the Russian monarchy and the creation of the Soviet Union. Trained as a lawyer, he began studying Marxism in the 1890s and soon adapted it to his own theory, Leninism. In 1917, he became virtual dictator of Russia, with Joseph Stalin and Leon Trotsky as his chief advisors, but he later unsuccessfully called for Stalin's removal from the post of general secretary.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 22, 2023, 09:17:57 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Bloody Sunday: Massacre in St. Petersburg (1905)
The Russian Revolution of 1905 began on Bloody Sunday, when Czar Nicholas II's troops killed and wounded hundreds of unarmed, peaceful demonstrators marching toward the Winter Palace. The protesters, organized by Georgy Gapon, a Russian Orthodox priest, were going to present the czar with a petition for an eight-hour workday, improved working conditions, and fair wages, when troops opened fire on them. Gapon was killed soon after.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 25, 2023, 06:05:51 PM
The Black Watch

The Black Watch—or Royal Highland Regiment—is a Scottish infantry regiment of the British Army. Its first companies were originally raised in 1725 to occupy and watch the rebellious Scottish highlands, in order to keep the peace. The regiment was formed about 15 years later and became known as the Black Watch, after the dark colors of the regimental tartan. In 2006, a military reorganization made the Black Watch the 3d Battalion of the Royal Regiment of Scotland.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 28, 2023, 10:15:16 AM
Jan. 28, 1986, the space shuttle Challenger — scheduled for a routine launch from Cape Canaveral in Florida — exploded after just 73 seconds in flight, killing all seven Americans on board.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 28, 2023, 03:19:15 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/this-battle-of-the-korean-war-was-one-of-the-most-disastrous-in-us-history/ar-AA16Q5Oy?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=c4dddad835704672a1d68469977c0e69 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/this-battle-of-the-korean-war-was-one-of-the-most-disastrous-in-us-history/ar-AA16Q5Oy?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=c4dddad835704672a1d68469977c0e69)

While the U.S. has generally been victorious on the battlefield, some battles have been nearly as disastrous for the United States. One example is the Battle of Chosin Reservoir in Korea which pitted the U.S. military against much larger North Korean and Chinese forces.

The cause of the disaster was simple. Overconfidence has prompted members of the U.S. Army and Marines to move too close to the Chinese border. By some estimates the North Koreans and Chinese threw more than 120,000 people into the battle. The United States had fewer than 30,000. American casualties reached above 10,000, with more than 1,000 fatalities. The clash is considered one of the most disastrous battles in U.S. history.

One joint U.S.-Korean army unit, later dubbed Task Force MacLean after one of its commanders, was almost completely wiped out, with as much as 95% of the force killed, wounded, or captured.

The perilous American retreat is among the most famous in U.S. military history. The battle, which ran from Nov. 27 to Dec. 15, 1950, also helped tip the results of the war against the United States and South Korea, with the conflict ultimately considered a draw.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 28, 2023, 05:53:39 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/1F3qX1T.png)
American singer-songwriters Ted Nugent and Bob Seger was taken in 1972, while the two performed together at several venues.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 30, 2023, 08:46:07 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Hitler Is Appointed Chancellor of Germany (1933)
Hitler's rise to power began long before 1933, with his development of the Nazi party in the early 1920s and the release of his book, Mein Kampf. When the Nazis were elected the largest party in the Reichstag in 1932, German President Paul von Hindenburg offered Hitler a subordinate position in the cabinet. Hitler held out for a more powerful post and only had to wait six months to be named chancellor.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 30, 2023, 08:46:34 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Franklin Delano Roosevelt (1882)
Elected to an unprecedented four presidential terms, Roosevelt guided the US through the Great Depression and World War II. He instituted the New Deal program to promote economic recovery and social reform and, as war spread in Europe, prepared for the possibility that the US would enter the war. When it finally did, he led the nation to the threshold of victory, dying in office less than a month before Germany's surrender to the Allies.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 30, 2023, 10:26:14 AM
back when the Dems were actually there for the people rather than them selves
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 30, 2023, 10:32:56 AM
well, they probably had the poor folks fooled at least a little bit
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: ELA on January 30, 2023, 10:40:17 PM
https://twitter.com/BeatlesEarth/status/1620044373328003072?t=rT0wGem2Mje1OxdUfCZwtw&s=19
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 31, 2023, 09:27:53 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Private Slovik Executed for Desertion (1945)
US Army private Eddie Slovik was executed for desertion in 1945. His was the first such execution after the Civil War and the only one of 49 World War II desertion death sentences to be carried out. Slovik was initially separated from his unit during an artillery attack. He rejoined them but deserted after being assigned to the front lines. He later confessed in writing that he would do it again and refused offers to destroy his note and return to battle.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2023, 11:57:38 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/DJOuKng.png)

I-85 in Atlanta 1954.  I'm not sure where this is.  Some of the concrete pavement on exit ramps is still used.  When they widened it, they left a part of the old freeway for local access, which I used today in fact.

(https://i.imgur.com/uVaqrgT.png)



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2023, 02:16:59 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/XicRshF.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 31, 2023, 04:28:55 PM
[img width=274.381 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/XicRshF.png[/img]
All grandsons of Queen Victoria
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 31, 2023, 04:42:41 PM
All grandsons of Queen Victoria
Wife and I went to Vancouver in Sept, and took a day trip down to Victoria. 

Very cool place, and we're thinking of going back at some point for a long weekend and staying directly in Victoria itself. Lots of history. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 31, 2023, 11:25:19 PM
blue blood
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2023, 07:36:46 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/4O4V454.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2023, 09:07:57 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
Private Slovik Executed for Desertion (1945)
US Army private Eddie Slovik was executed for desertion in 1945. His was the first such execution after the Civil War and the only one of 49 World War II desertion death sentences to be carried out. Slovik was initially separated from his unit during an artillery attack. He rejoined them but deserted after being assigned to the front lines. He later confessed in writing that he would do it again and refused offers to destroy his note and return to battle.
Shouldn't have, there were quite a few slime balls who served in the quarter masters. Like Crapgame in Kelly's Heroes - Dispensing all sorts of provisions,Beer,alcohol,smokes,chocolate bars anything that was sent over. Many of these turds formed a Black Market they profitted handsomely from. While good men were paying a price in death & suffering. Everyone of them that were caught & convicted should have stood in for Eddie
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2023, 09:12:49 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/XicRshF.png)
Read that there was 16% inbreeding in the British Royal blood lines,never liked those A-Holes, commoners are fine
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 01, 2023, 06:57:21 PM
The bowie knife is named after the Alamo hero Jim Bowie (1796-1836). His brother, Rezin, designed the hefty weapon.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2023, 07:25:14 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/oTldYrP.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 02, 2023, 08:21:46 AM
The first bicycle, probably created by the German Baron Karl de Drais de Sauerbrun in the early 1800s, was a form of hobby-horse that was propelled by the rider's feet pushing against the ground. The first treadle-propelled cycle was designed by the Scottish blacksmith Kirkpatrick Macmillan around 1839. By the end of the 19th century, bicycles had wire wheels, metal frames, and pneumatic tires.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2023, 09:52:35 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/SvkZoZJ.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 02, 2023, 10:01:32 AM
Nice list... :)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2023, 02:14:51 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/gY0nuOE.png)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2023, 02:21:49 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/h9px6dG.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2023, 07:15:17 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/gY0nuOE.png)


They had to be thinking "please,not now"
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2023, 09:02:51 PM
Feb 2,1925  Gunnar Kaasen finished the last leg of the vaccine run led by the dog team headed by BALTO. The coordinated emergency delivery of this life-saving antitoxin by dog-sled relay in the harshest of conditions has left a profound legacy in the annals of vaccinology and public health the 1925 diphtheria epidemic of Nome, Alaska.

The 938 mile Ididarod Sled Dog Race from Anchorage to Nome is run annually to commemorate the event
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 03, 2023, 08:22:55 AM
On February 3, 1959, American rock and roll (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_roll) musicians Buddy Holly (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddy_Holly), Ritchie Valens (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritchie_Valens), and "The Big Bopper" J. P. Richardson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Bopper) were all killed in a plane crash near Clear Lake, Iowa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear_Lake,_Iowa), together with pilot Roger Peterson. The event later became known as "The Day the Music Died" after singer-songwriter Don McLean (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_McLean) referred to it as such in his 1971 song "American Pie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Pie_(song))".Allsup and Valens flipped a coin to see who would get a seat on the small plane. At the time, Holly and his band, consisting of Waylon Jennings (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waylon_Jennings), Tommy Allsup (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Allsup), and Carl Bunch (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Bunch), were playing on the "Winter Dance Party" tour (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concert_tour) across the Midwest (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midwestern_United_States). Valens called heads and won and Allsup took the bus. Jennings gave up his seat for Richardson, who felt that as a large-sized man, would feel uncomfortable on the bus. Jennings took the bus.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 03, 2023, 08:39:50 AM
The Surf Ballroom is still alive and well in Clear Lake

If you ever visit, go to Mason City a few miles away and enjoy a steak at the Northwestern

"People thought the infamous Winter Dance Party rock and roll tour of 1959 ended when Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens and J.P. 'The Big Bopper'  Richardson were killed in a plane crash following their performance at Clear Lake, Iowa's Surf Ballroom," Sevan Garabedian explained, close to 64 years later. "Even though the other performers were devastated, the promoters wanted the tour to continue."

With less than 24 hours notice, the then-18-year-old Frankie Avalon found himself on the Shore Acres Ballroom stage as Holly's last-minute replacement for the Sioux City gig.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2023, 10:50:41 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/GsC4hFs.png)

Graf Zeppelin - The Forgotten German Aircraft Carrier - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VExSb_rZ1WU)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 03, 2023, 02:44:44 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
15th Amendment to the US Constitution Ratified (1870)
Ratified during the post-Civil War Reconstruction Period, the 15th Amendment to the US Constitution was intended primarily to enfranchise former slaves. It states: "The right of citizens…to vote shall not be denied or abridged…on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 04, 2023, 08:19:12 AM
From the Archive: 1979 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am Road Test (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a42390355/1979-pontiac-firebird-trans-am-by-the-numbers/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR2K9DnyCl-en2oYSkUzlMhkKsgR9XcTtvi5HA6O0u3NMG2EFpZU5BmNTBY)

0-60 in 6.7 seconds, 220 hp  12 mpg  live rear axle

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 04, 2023, 10:04:41 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Confederate States of America Established (1861)
Although Abraham Lincoln had stated his willingness to tolerate slavery where it currently existed, his election as US president precipitated the secession of several Southern states. South Carolina, the first to secede, was soon followed out of the Union by Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas. On February 4, 1861, delegates from the seceding states met in Alabama to organize a provisional government.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 04, 2023, 10:11:01 AM
I've seen some folks claim the secession was not primarily about slavery.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 04, 2023, 10:16:24 AM
me too
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 04, 2023, 10:41:16 AM
From the Archive: 1979 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am Road Test (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a42390355/1979-pontiac-firebird-trans-am-by-the-numbers/?src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social-media&fbclid=IwAR2K9DnyCl-en2oYSkUzlMhkKsgR9XcTtvi5HA6O0u3NMG2EFpZU5BmNTBY)

0-60 in 6.7 seconds, 220 hp  12 mpg  live rear axle
It is hilarious how bad these numbers are compared to today's cars. I'm pretty sure a lot of minivans could run with that.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 04, 2023, 10:45:25 AM
It is hilarious how bad these numbers are compared to today's cars. I'm pretty sure a lot of minivans could run with that.
Honda 0-60 Times & Honda Quarter Mile Times | Honda Civic, Accord, CR-V, Fit, Ridgeline, Pilot & more 0 to 60 stats! (zeroto60times.com)

 (https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/honda-0-60-mph-times/)Honda Odyssey is also at 6.7 seconds to 60.  FWD minivan.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 04, 2023, 10:47:14 AM
Honda 0-60 Times & Honda Quarter Mile Times | Honda Civic, Accord, CR-V, Fit, Ridgeline, Pilot & more 0 to 60 stats! (zeroto60times.com)

 (https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/honda-0-60-mph-times/)Honda Odyssey is also at 6.7 seconds to 60.  FWD minivan.
With room for all three of my kids and WAY better MPG's!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 04, 2023, 11:04:16 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/r8MVPsH.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 04, 2023, 01:04:25 PM
1996 Chrysler Town & Country LXi
0-60 mph 11.0
Quarter mile 18.1


everything is relative
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 04, 2023, 01:15:47 PM
I had a 1987 Dodge Caravan with a 4 cylinder engine and 5 speed transmission, I think it took nearly 17 seconds to get to 60.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 04, 2023, 01:32:49 PM
my brother's late 70's chevy vega with a automatic tranny and the AC on, might not ever get to 60.

luckily the speed limit was 55
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 04, 2023, 03:10:41 PM
my brother's late 70's chevy vega with a automatic tranny and the AC on, might not ever get to 60.

luckily the speed limit was 55
Yeah, you could use a sundial to time 1/4mi in those
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 04, 2023, 06:50:00 PM
1789
February 04


George Washington unanimously elected first U.S. president

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 05, 2023, 08:25:38 AM
Dubbed the "Marathon Man," Belgian runner Stefaan Engels ran the marathon distance every day for a year, totaling 9,569 miles (1,5401 km).
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 05, 2023, 08:29:25 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Hydrogen Bomb Lost in the Ocean (1958)
The Tybee Bomb is a 7,600-pound (3,500-kg) nuclear bomb containing 400 pounds (180 kg) of conventional high explosives and highly enriched uranium. During a simulated combat mission, the B-47 bomber carrying it collided with an F-86 fighter plane, and the bomb was jettisoned and lost. It is presumed to be somewhere in Wassaw Sound, off the shores of Georgia's Tybee Island, but recovery efforts have been unsuccessful.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 05, 2023, 12:18:11 PM
On this day in history, Feb. 5, 1937, FDR announces plan to pack the Supreme Court | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/day-history-feb-5-1937-fdr-announces-plan-pack-supreme-court)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 05, 2023, 04:33:07 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/5xlSpKa.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 05, 2023, 05:21:09 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
Hydrogen Bomb Lost in the Ocean (1958)
The Tybee Bomb is a 7,600-pound (3,500-kg) nuclear bomb containing 400 pounds (180 kg) of conventional high explosives and highly enriched uranium. During a simulated combat mission, the B-47 bomber carrying it collided with an F-86 fighter plane, and the bomb was jettisoned and lost. It is presumed to be somewhere in Wassaw Sound, off the shores of Georgia's Tybee Island, but recovery efforts have been unsuccessful.
Ya hello,Boss you're not gonna believe this shit
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on February 05, 2023, 08:25:46 PM
I've seen some folks claim the secession was not primarily about slavery.
I give you the words of my 7th grade history teacher, Mrs. Kincannon, who said "No matter what anybody else says, the civil war was not about slavery".  She was a great teacher, I really liked her.  I still remember that we closely followed the 1988 Presidential Election, Bush vs. Dukakis.  Seemed like a much more civilized time.  Before I really knew what the major differences were between Republicans and Democrats, I think I kinda liked Dukakis a little more than Bush, but they both seemed OK dudes to an 7th grader.  

In 8th grade, Mrs. Mitchell (whom I had a bit of a crush on!) said " No matter what anybody else tells you, the civil war was about slavery".  

They were both middle aged white women.  

I have since concluded that it's just complicated.  Because some people were in fact fighting for slavery, some people were fighting for other things, and I thinks some people just kind of joined the fracas not really knowing exactly what they were fighting for, other than assuming everybody else knew what they were fighting for. 

I've always thought there were plenty of Northerners and Southeners who would be amply content to let the other side do as they seemed fit, what really did the people in NYC really care about the people in Alabama?  

But here we are.  And slavery was just such a shameful act and time.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2023, 06:20:56 AM
The various Articles of Secession indicate slavery was a major cause.  The election of Lincoln was a major cause, obviously, and the main objection was his stance (or perceived stance) on slavery.  There were other issues that folks use to confuse.  I'm not talking about individual motivations to fight, that issue is more complex, but the core cause of secession was slavery.

The cause of the war itself gets more complex.  South Carolina seceded months before the war started.  Had Lincoln removed Federal troops from Fort Sumter, the Confederacy would likely have peacefully gone its way (sans NC and VA) and there would have been no war.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 06, 2023, 08:08:10 AM
talk about a college football rivalry between the SEC and the Big Ten if that would have happened!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 06, 2023, 09:56:43 AM
This from a YouTube history channel

One of my favorite "moments" of WW2 took place during the fierce battles around the Anzio Beach Perimeter. This is from General Ernst Harmon's (2nd Armored Div) biography. 

During a lull in the fighting, an American soldier had "liberated" some champagne and a black top hat from some local buildings and had proceeded to get roaring drunk. He got a bit turned around and his buddies watched as he drunkenly weaved his way towards the German line. They yelled, screamed and then silently waited for the inevitable shot or spray of machine gun bullets. They were amazed when he made it to the line and a German officer stepped forward, spun the man around and nudged him back towards his own line. There were cheers from both sides when he made it back.

  War is terrible but sometimes the opportunity for mercy and humanity, even humor, arise.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 06, 2023, 11:33:04 AM
February 6, 1911. President Ronald Reagan is born.



Ronald Reagan’s legacy of patriotism and optimism is timeless and transparently apparent. Yet the "why" behind everything he did was never really stated by him outright. We know his faith guided him, but beyond that we long for him to have left a checklist of how to be Reagan-like.


As the Great Communicator though, in his written and spoken words, Ronald Reagan left many clues for us to find and decipher. Some seem as if they were given not only to America and the world but were almost as if he was also describing his own North Star. Like when he said, "Live simply, love generously, care deeply, speak kindly, leave the rest to God." A clear life motto - one he lived out both publicly and privately.  Good words for us to adopt and live out too. Simplicity. Love. Generosity. Caring. Kindness. Faith. When stated like that it doesn’t seem so elusive after all.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 06, 2023, 12:11:29 PM
The various Articles of Secession indicate slavery was a major cause.  The election of Lincoln was a major cause, obviously, and the main objection was his stance (or perceived stance) on slavery.  There were other issues that folks use to confuse.  I'm not talking about individual motivations to fight, that issue is more complex, but the core cause of secession was slavery.

The cause of the war itself gets more complex.  South Carolina seceded months before the war started.  Had Lincoln removed Federal troops from Fort Sumter, the Confederacy would likely have peacefully gone its way (sans NC and VA) and there would have been no war.
Your comment that individual motivations to fight are "more complex" is very true and really quite an understatement.  

In the antebellum South only a fairly small percentage of whites actually owned slaves.  The actual percentage is the subject of some debate but the absolute highest expression of it that I have seen comes from a pro-reparations activist who claims that almost one-third of southern families owned slaves.  Even using that extraordinarily high figure, still more than two-thirds of southern families did NOT own slaves so it stands to reason that at least around two-thirds of Confederate Soldiers had no direct personal benefit from the institution of Slavery.  

In the North the situation was quite convoluted.  A lot of poorer whites, particularly recent immigrants were at best lukewarm to the concept of abolition due to fear of wage competition from freed slaves.  This contributed to anti-war sentiment in the north that got so bad as to require Union Troops to be rushed from their win at the Battle of Gettysburg not South in pursuit of Lee but Northeast to NYC to put down violent anti-draft riots.  

In my own ancestry (AFAIK all of my ancestors were in North America before the Civil War) I have some ancestors who appear to have been drafted and fought rather begrudgingly for the Union possibly fighting to "preserve the Union" and others who joined up of their own free will and expressly for the purpose of freeing the slaves.  

My 2-great grandfather (Mother's, Mother's, Father's Father) was born to Quaker parents and raised a Quaker.  Quakers opposed both slavery and war but my 2-great Grandfather Joshua and his brother Caleb felt that "opposing slavery" as an intellectual pursuit but sitting idly by while hundreds of thousands of your countrymen actually fought to end it was hypocritical so they joined up.   My three-great uncle Caleb was killed in a small and previously little-known Pennsylvania Village called Gettysburg on July 3, 1863.  His brother Joshua served for the entire war from nearly the beginning until the final surrender.  He was wounded twice but survived the war and went on to have a large family with my great-grandfather as one of his sons.  I have a picture of my Grandmother (born 1909) sitting on his knee in about 1919.  

My ancestors Joshua and Caleb were unusual but not altogether unique.  They joined up explicitly to end slavery.  Most Northerners fought either because they didn't have a choice or to "preserve the union".  In fact, Lincoln was not elected on a platform of "ending slavery".  His platform was to stop the spread (not allow it in new territories) and enforce the already existing prohibition on the importation of additional slaves.  

Then there is the Emancipation Proclamation:
The Holy Roman Empire was famously neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire.  Similarly, the Emancipation Proclamation functionally did not free a single slave.  Lincoln worded it carefully because there were still some slaves within Union States and, in any case, the President's Constitutional authority to unilaterally free such  persons was dubious at best.  Lincoln avoided those issues by proclaiming the freedom of slaves in areas "then in rebellion".  That made it a military action under his authority as "Commander in Chief" which had a much stronger Constitutional basis than a domestic Presidential edict.  

Additionally, the Emancipation Proclamation was not issued for the purpose of freeing slaves, it was issued for the purpose of keeping France and Great Britain out of the war.  The developing industrial North was an economic competitor to European industry while the agrarian South was an economic supplier of raw materials to and purchaser of industrial goods from European Industry.  The European powers were in a bit of a pickle because their economic interests leaned strongly toward the South but Slavery was extremely unpopular in Europe so their emotional interests were with the North.  The purpose of the Emancipation Proclamation was to make the abolition of slavery an explicit war aim of the North which would effectively make it impossible for either Britain or France to join the war on the (now) explicitly pro-slavery side.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 06, 2023, 12:15:47 PM
I've always thought there were plenty of Northerners and Southeners who would be amply content to let the other side do as they seemed fit, what really did the people in NYC really care about the people in Alabama? 

But here we are.  And slavery was just such a shameful act and time. 
I don't know if you did this on purpose but it is interesting that you used NYC as your example. NYC itself was very much anti-war territory. Union troops had to be sent there from Gettysburg to put down violent anti-draft riots.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2023, 12:17:55 PM
Slavery and Lincoln's election --> secession.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 06, 2023, 01:40:56 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/yxLO7WZ.png)

1919. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 07, 2023, 08:54:16 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/eLXU9Xk.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 07, 2023, 10:08:09 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/PT8PWJr.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 07, 2023, 12:06:14 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/eLXU9Xk.png)
Got rid of my wood boat way too much maintenance,specially refinishing/shellacing the ribs/joists inside
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on February 07, 2023, 02:03:59 PM
I don't know if you did this on purpose but it is interesting that you used NYC as your example. NYC itself was very much anti-war territory. Union troops had to be sent there from Gettysburg to put down violent anti-draft riots.
No, explicitly listed NYC because I knew that there was some discontent.  I also seem to remember wealthy people could buy their way out of the war as well.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on February 07, 2023, 02:26:31 PM
Your comment that individual motivations to fight are "more complex" is very true and really quite an understatement. 

In the antebellum South only a fairly small percentage of whites actually owned slaves.  The actual percentage is the subject of some debate but the absolute highest expression of it that I have seen comes from a pro-reparations activist who claims that almost one-third of southern families owned slaves.  Even using that extraordinarily high figure, still more than two-thirds of southern families did NOT own slaves so it stands to reason that at least around two-thirds of Confederate Soldiers had no direct personal benefit from the institution of Slavery. 

In the North the situation was quite convoluted.  A lot of poorer whites, particularly recent immigrants were at best lukewarm to the concept of abolition due to fear of wage competition from freed slaves.  This contributed to anti-war sentiment in the north that got so bad as to require Union Troops to be rushed from their win at the Battle of Gettysburg not South in pursuit of Lee but Northeast to NYC to put down violent anti-draft riots. 

In my own ancestry (AFAIK all of my ancestors were in North America before the Civil War) I have some ancestors who appear to have been drafted and fought rather begrudgingly for the Union possibly fighting to "preserve the Union" and others who joined up of their own free will and expressly for the purpose of freeing the slaves. 

My 2-great grandfather (Mother's, Mother's, Father's Father) was born to Quaker parents and raised a Quaker.  Quakers opposed both slavery and war but my 2-great Grandfather Joshua and his brother Caleb felt that "opposing slavery" as an intellectual pursuit but sitting idly by while hundreds of thousands of your countrymen actually fought to end it was hypocritical so they joined up.  My three-great uncle Caleb was killed in a small and previously little-known Pennsylvania Village called Gettysburg on July 3, 1863.  His brother Joshua served for the entire war from nearly the beginning until the final surrender.  He was wounded twice but survived the war and went on to have a large family with my great-grandfather as one of his sons.  I have a picture of my Grandmother (born 1909) sitting on his knee in about 1919. 

My ancestors Joshua and Caleb were unusual but not altogether unique.  They joined up explicitly to end slavery.  Most Northerners fought either because they didn't have a choice or to "preserve the union".  In fact, Lincoln was not elected on a platform of "ending slavery".  His platform was to stop the spread (not allow it in new territories) and enforce the already existing prohibition on the importation of additional slaves. 

Then there is the Emancipation Proclamation:
The Holy Roman Empire was famously neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire.  Similarly, the Emancipation Proclamation functionally did not free a single slave.  Lincoln worded it carefully because there were still some slaves within Union States and, in any case, the President's Constitutional authority to unilaterally free such  persons was dubious at best.  Lincoln avoided those issues by proclaiming the freedom of slaves in areas "then in rebellion".  That made it a military action under his authority as "Commander in Chief" which had a much stronger Constitutional basis than a domestic Presidential edict. 

Additionally, the Emancipation Proclamation was not issued for the purpose of freeing slaves, it was issued for the purpose of keeping France and Great Britain out of the war.  The developing industrial North was an economic competitor to European industry while the agrarian South was an economic supplier of raw materials to and purchaser of industrial goods from European Industry.  The European powers were in a bit of a pickle because their economic interests leaned strongly toward the South but Slavery was extremely unpopular in Europe so their emotional interests were with the North.  The purpose of the Emancipation Proclamation was to make the abolition of slavery an explicit war aim of the North which would effectively make it impossible for either Britain or France to join the war on the (now) explicitly pro-slavery side. 
That's a great piece of family history, thanks for sharing.  I do know that I had some ancestors who unfortunately fought for the South.  I would be very surprised if any of our family ancestors owned slaves, because you had to be somewhat wealthy to own them, and I'm pretty sure we never had any rich kinfolks.  

I doubt any enlisted man ever saw or knew about any Articles of Succession or any of the CSA knowledge.  There is no doubt that slavery suppressed the wages of the average southerner, because competing with free labor is a bitch IMO.  The problem is that nobody in the south and many in the north really accepted the slaves as any kind of equal, so there was always a question on what to do with the freed slaves?  

I often think about the people who signed up to fight to defeat slavery and it makes me very proud to be an American.  Think about it this way.  Slavery was not an American institution, it was a European one.  It was brought here by Europeans hundreds of years before there ever was a United States.  They  may not have allowed it at home, but it was ok to do "off world".  At least 100-150 years before the US existed.  We knew it was bad, it took another ~80 years to get rid of it.  And it was by far the deadliest war in our history.  So although it is a shameful thing in our history we faced it and beat it, even if some of my ancestors fought on the wrong side of the war, the country as a whole prevailed.  IMO just as important as our development as a country as the original Revolutionary War, because we still had to kick that part of Europe out.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 08, 2023, 08:27:09 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Boy Scouts of America Founded (1910)
One of the largest youth organizations in the US is the Boy Scouts of America, which promotes community service and character building. The scouts' activities aim at mental, moral, and physical development, stressing outdoor skills and training in citizenship and lifesaving. Scouts receive recognition in the form of merit badges and awards. The basic scout unit is a troop of about 15 boys, under the leadership of an adult scoutmaster.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2023, 08:29:10 AM
I think it clear the primary reason for secession was slavery and Lincoln's election.  The war itself was avoidable, at some cost, and men fought for a variety of reasons, slavery not being very prominent for most.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 08, 2023, 01:00:38 PM
The White House has been standing for 223 years, but did you know the stone used to build the White House is 100 million years old? 
The walls of the White House are constructed primarily from sandstone. It formed between 100 million years and 136 million years ago during the Lower Cretaceous Period. The sedimentary rock was created through a lengthy geological process. Granite and gneiss rocks broke down over time and became small fragments of quartz sand. Through wind and water, this quartz sand deposited into bodies of water where over millions of years, pressure caused the sand to fuse with other materials including silica, calcium carbonite, or iron oxide, creating sandstone. The Aquia Creek sandstone used to build the White House is known for its light color. It is also known as “freestone,” meaning that the stone could be carved in any direction without it breaking. The stone is very strong and fine grained, making it a good building material.
Outcroppings of Aquia stone exist along the banks of Aquia Creek and the Rappahannock River in Virginia. When construction of the new capital city began, the government purchased a quarry in 1791 at Brent’s Island, now known as Government Island, where enslaved and free laborers cut stone and shipped it up the Potomac River. That quarry and others provided sandstone to build both the White House and the Capitol Building.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2023, 10:08:29 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/cKlaPef.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 09, 2023, 05:11:24 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/DbXCezA.png)

My main man!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 10, 2023, 09:02:05 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/329316256_957831398520462_2483853849443639419_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=6-Ui_2TTOvkAX_zYera&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBiy56jNrWNXuzehrq-yGmqUINtWrANkM7dVDfcLz7diA&oe=63EBB306)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 10, 2023, 09:10:37 PM
She's looks like she's thinking this is their last date or they're just married
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 10, 2023, 10:34:32 PM
typical Stros fan
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 11, 2023, 09:01:35 AM
I think it clear the primary reason for secession was slavery and Lincoln's election.  The war itself was avoidable, at some cost, and men fought for a variety of reasons, slavery not being very prominent for most.
How was it avoidable really? Between cooler,rational heads - YES but that was hardly the case. Congress men were literally attacking each other on the floor. I remember watching the PBS Ken Burns Docu where some reb senator beat some yank senator with a cane breaking it. His constituents mailed him more canes . It was only a matter of time
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 11, 2023, 04:35:53 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/329245870_886376292434116_3874352193404187501_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=nX1qF6b6RQEAX9cJfRI&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAbcQxPpLgTCO3oLBcmAJ3zsko2ZSDyd2wRxmibcobidg&oe=63ED98C3)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 12, 2023, 08:10:04 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

US President Bill Clinton Is Acquitted (1999)
In January 1998, President Clinton was questioned in a civil suit charging him with sexual harassment. Before the Grand Jury, he denied having an affair with White House intern Monica Lewinsky, which turned out to be untrue. The US House of Representatives impeached Clinton on December 19, 1998, charging him with perjury and obstruction of justice. In 1999, two impeachment counts were tried in the Senate, which voted to acquit Clinton.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 14, 2023, 08:52:38 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

St. Valentine's Day Massacre (1929)
When Jack McGurn, a member of Al Capone's gang, was almost killed by members of rival George "Bugs" Moran's gang, Capone decided to retaliate by luring Bugs and some of his men to a warehouse and killing them. On the day of the massacre, Capone's men thought that the rival crime boss had entered the warehouse and opened fire. They killed seven men but not Bugs—he had grown suspicious and changed his plans.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 14, 2023, 12:42:12 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

St. Valentine's Day Massacre (1929)
When Jack McGurn, a member of Al Capone's gang, was almost killed by members of rival George "Bugs" Moran's gang, Capone decided to retaliate by luring Bugs and some of his men to a warehouse and killing them. On the day of the massacre, Capone's men thought that the rival crime boss had entered the warehouse and opened fire. They killed seven men but not Bugs—he had grown suspicious and changed his plans.
Back then this was considered an insane and unacceptable level of violence and it made national news.

Today this would be a remarkably peaceful weekend in Chicago and the only killings that make national news are those that fit with the narrative pushed by TPTB.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 14, 2023, 12:46:44 PM
Back then this was considered an insane and unacceptable level of violence and it made national news.

Today this would be a remarkably peaceful weekend in Chicago and the only killings that make national news are those that fit with the narrative pushed by TPTB.
Back then we had prohibition of alcohol, leading to violence that was all about turf wars between competing mafia families to protect their illicit business. 

Now we have prohibition of drugs, leading to violence that is all about turf wars between competing gangs to protect their illicit business. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 14, 2023, 12:59:00 PM
Back then we had prohibition of alcohol, leading to violence that was all about turf wars between competing mafia families to protect their illicit business.

Now we have prohibition of drugs, leading to violence that is all about turf wars between competing gangs to protect their illicit business.
This is more-or-less true insofar as it refers to the 1929 "massacre" of six rival gang members.

Today, not so much. Most killings today are over someone being "dissed" and squeezing off a few rounds in the general direction of the offending party.

To the extent that killings today are committed in pursuit of profits, you would likely be shocked to realize how little money is at stake. These are not Tony Montana/Soprano situations where drug lords are liquidated over millions in drug profits but rather random low-level street thugs shooting at each other over dime bags.

Furthermore, and of vastly more importance is the quantity of innocent bystanders put at risk and killed. In the 1929 attack the targets were lured to a warehouse specifically to avoid endangering "civilians". Today's urban killings frequently result in bystanders being wounded or killed because today's thugs tend to employ "spray and pray" tactics that are inherently dangerous to everyone not just the actual targets.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 14, 2023, 01:05:11 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

St. Valentine's Day Massacre (1929)
They think/evidence suggests Big Al hired trigger men from Detroit's Purple Gang so they wouldn't be recognized
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 15, 2023, 08:42:50 AM
The Great Mississippi Flood

The Great Mississippi Flood of 1927 was the most destructive river flood in US history. Following heavy rains in 1926, the Mississippi River broke out of its levee system in 145 places, causing over $400 million in damages and killing 246 people in seven states. After the disaster, the federal government took over flood-control work—stabilizing river banks, improving channels, and constructing levees, floodwalls, floodways, and reservoirs. What famous song was written about the flood?

The aftermath of the flood was one factor in the Great Migration of African-Americans to northern cities. During an era in which racism was commonplace, blacks built levees at gunpoint, starved in refugee camps and many were left to fend for themselves during the flood, while whites were rescued.[6] Previously, the move from the rural South to the Northern cities had virtually stopped. The flood waters began to recede in June 1927, but interracial relations continued to be strained. Hostilities had erupted between the races; a black man was shot by a white police officer when he refused to be conscripted to unload a relief boat.[7][8] As a result of displacements lasting up to six months, tens of thousands of local African-Americans moved to the big cities of the North, particularly Chicago; many thousands more followed in the following decades.

https://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Great+Mississippi+Flood (https://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Great+Mississippi+Flood)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 16, 2023, 09:08:17 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Kyoto Protocol Comes into Force (2005)
The 1992 Earth Summit held in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, produced a treaty aimed at reducing greenhouse gas emissions in order to combat global warming. Representatives of 172 nations agreed to work toward the sustainable development of the planet, although most of the agreements were not legally binding. In 1997, an amendment was negotiated called the Kyoto Protocol, by which participating nations commit to reduce their emissions of carbon dioxide.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 17, 2023, 02:14:36 PM
Interesting read.

On this day in history, Feb. 17, 1801, Jefferson is elected president as party politics divide new nation | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/this-day-history-feb-17-1801-jefferson-elected-president-party-politics-nation)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 19, 2023, 11:10:52 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
The Battle of Gallipoli Begins (1915)
The Battle of Gallipoli took place on the Turkish peninsula of Gallipoli during World War I. It was initiated by the Allies to open a Black Sea supply route to Russia and capture the Ottoman capital of Constantinople. The Allied navy arrived at Gallipoli in February 1915 but did not get sufficient land support for two months, giving the Turkish army ample time to reinforce its troops. After months of fighting, the Allied forces withdrew in January 1916.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 19, 2023, 12:16:55 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Kyoto Protocol Comes into Force
Always hated the creeky attempt at catchy names they gave these summits/agreements - accords/protocols or such. Put at least as much effort into solving problems as you do bullshitting your constituents that something was actually being done
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 22, 2023, 02:47:49 PM
February 22, 1980.

(https://i.imgur.com/E2x2BHk.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 23, 2023, 12:56:05 AM
78 years ago today the USMC captured Mount Suribachi.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 23, 2023, 01:41:45 PM
78 years ago today the USMC captured Mount Suribachi.
https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/this-day-history-feb-23-1945-us-marines-raise-american-flag-over-iwo-jima.amp
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 23, 2023, 08:18:54 PM
February 22, 1980.

[img width=500 height=280.996]https://i.imgur.com/E2x2BHk.png[/img]
a junior in high school...  purchased my first car, $700 - didn't borrow money
I pumped gasoline for $3.25/hour
Gas went over $1/gallon
cigarettes were 60 cents a pack, $5.75 a carton
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 23, 2023, 09:01:01 PM
Testing football helmets, 1912

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/331081415_1727952864300983_915270790833003757_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=xsh7XJsf-RQAX81TIHe&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfC_pXcXEAXIpkXaGbXSCSovgZGoqvsbKA-SpwX_useT6A&oe=63FC5867)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 24, 2023, 09:58:15 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Marbury v. Madison Establishes Judicial Review (1803)
Marbury v. Madison was a landmark case in American law that resulted in the first decision by the Supreme Court to declare unconstitutional and void an act passed by Congress. It established the basis for the exercise of judicial review of federal statutes by the US Supreme Court. By identifying the Supreme Court as the authoritative interpreter of the Constitution, this decision bolstered power, respect, and prestige in the federal judiciary.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 26, 2023, 09:16:02 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Radar Is Demonstrated (1935)
Radar is a means for detecting the position, movement, and nature of a remote object through radio waves reflected from its surface. During the 1930s, several countries independently developed the technology for military use, exploiting radar's capacity to detect aircrafts and ships. One of the earliest practical radar systems was devised by Sir Robert Watson-Watt, a Scottish physicist and descendent of the inventor of the steam engine, James Watt.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 26, 2023, 10:41:21 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Radar Is Demonstrated (1935)
Radar is a means for detecting the position, movement, and nature of a remote object through radio waves reflected from its surface. During the 1930s, several countries independently developed the technology for military use, exploiting radar's capacity to detect aircrafts and ships. One of the earliest practical radar systems was devised by Sir Robert Watson-Watt, a Scottish physicist and descendent of the inventor of the steam engine, James Watt.
You guys my age and older may remember the early microwaves called "Radar Range".

Microwave ovens were invented accidentally when a WWII Radar researcher's candy bar melted in his pocket near a Radar wave emitting device.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 26, 2023, 10:52:33 AM
You guys my age and older may remember the early microwaves called "Radar Range".

Microwave ovens were invented accidentally when a WWII Radar researcher's candy bar melted in his pocket near a Radar wave emitting device.
We had one. We were told to stay away from it while it was on.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 26, 2023, 10:53:15 AM
my grandparents had a very early Amana "Radar Range"

late 60's early 70's

I used it in college in the early 80's

was heavy
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 26, 2023, 10:56:03 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/yS6msas.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on February 26, 2023, 12:02:13 PM
a junior in high school...  purchased my first car, $700 - didn't borrow money
I pumped gasoline for $3.25/hour
Gas went over $1/gallon
cigarettes were 60 cents a pack, $5.75 a carton
(https://i.imgur.com/ghBrHLQ.png)(https://i.imgur.com/RIlTOBz.png)(https://i.imgur.com/mSBg30Q.png)(https://i.imgur.com/DvvfNkK.png)(https://i.imgur.com/mMeHEN6.png)(https://i.imgur.com/lfDuXEM.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on February 26, 2023, 12:06:21 PM
I get why so many people are flustered about minimum wage.  It does seem unusually low.  

Could you buy a car for $3K now?  Certainly, but would it be better than your $700 one in 1980?  I think cigarettes are over $5.00 per pack now, but I think a lot of that is extra taxes we didn't have then.  Gas is cheaper now, but as you know that fluctuates a lot.  I remember gas being ~$1.00 per gallon for a long time in the 80's and 90's.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 26, 2023, 12:19:12 PM
got a deal on the 1970 Nova SS for $700, but I stole it from her.
her husband was not happy
don't get much of a used car today for $2,700

3.25/hr vs $12.50/hr
not many high school kids working for $12.50/hr these days
my job as gas station pump jockey has been fazed out

not gonna touch a pack of cigs for $2.50 today but, sin taxes
a carton for $23??
no wonder more folks don't smoke today

I always tell folks gas is cheap
$3.85 for gas would be a little high.  It's at $3.10 here now.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 26, 2023, 12:25:12 PM
I was up in the Chicago are around the holiday season and a lady in front of me bought a pack of cigs. 

$15.00 in NW Crook County.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 26, 2023, 02:11:12 PM
I get why so many people are flustered about minimum wage.  It does seem unusually low. 

Could you buy a car for $3K now?  Certainly, but would it be better than your $700 one in 1980?  I think cigarettes are over $5.00 per pack now, but I think a lot of that is extra taxes we didn't have then.  Gas is cheaper now, but as you know that fluctuates a lot.  I remember gas being ~$1.00 per gallon for a long time in the 80's and 90's. 
A $3K car now would be lightyears better than a car you could buy for $700 in 1980. It'd probably be better than a car you could buy for $10K in 1980. Car technology and reliability is so far ahead of what it was back then that you may only be able to buy a very high-mileage (150K) car in that range, at least as I search autotrader for cars in that range w/in 100 miles of where I live in SoCal. But it'll still be better than FF's 1970 Nova. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 26, 2023, 02:15:44 PM
better in some ways

the 70 Nova SS with less than 70,000 miles would be worth more than $4K today
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 26, 2023, 02:23:31 PM
American frontiersman BUFFALO BILL was born on this day in Scott County, Iowa in 1846 (Feb 26, 1846 – Jan 10, 1917)

When Cody died of kidney failure in January 1917, his body ended up on a mountain outside of Denver, Colorado—a counterintuitive choice given his close ties to the town in Wyoming that bore his last name. Cody, Wyoming was founded in the 1890s with help from Buffalo Bill, who employed many of its residents and was responsible for its tourism business. It might seem natural that he’d be buried in the place he’d invested so much in, but he wasn’t. And that’s where the controversy began.

https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/502531/weird-story-buffalo-bills-body?a_aid=46813&fbclid=IwAR070vMwjpTvhGGb7j2pzdq5gUFBT9bjqlxePjgYTqsXLNdkroeUXf7yZdE (https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/502531/weird-story-buffalo-bills-body?a_aid=46813&fbclid=IwAR070vMwjpTvhGGb7j2pzdq5gUFBT9bjqlxePjgYTqsXLNdkroeUXf7yZdE)


Though Cody spent much of his time in the town named after him, he also loved Colorado. After leaving his family in Kansas when he was just 11 to work with wagon trains throughout the West, he headed to Colorado for the first time as a 13-year-old wannabe gold prospector. During his short time in the area, he chased the glittery fortunes promised by Colorado’s 1859 gold rush. Even after leaving the territory, his traveling vaudeville show, which brought a glamorous taste of Wild West life to people all over the United States, took him back often. Later in life, he frequently visited Denver, where his sister lived. He died there, too—after telling his wife he wanted to be buried on Lookout Mountain.

Meanwhile, Colorado and Wyoming started a heated feud over one of America’s most famous men. Wyoming claimed that Cody should be buried there, citing an early draft of his will that said he intended to be buried near Cody. Colorado cried foul, since Cody’s last will left the burial location up to his widow, who chose Lookout Mountain. Rumors even began to circulate that a delegation from Wyoming had stolen Cody’s body from the mortuary and replaced it with that of a local vagrant.

In part to stop the rumor mill, Cody was finally buried in an open casket on Lookout Mountain in June 1917. Twenty-five thousand people went to the mountaintop to bid him farewell before he was interred. To prevent theft, the bronze casket was sealed in another, tamper-proof case, then enclosed in concrete and iron.

Yet his rocky grave was anything but safe. In the 1920s, Cody’s niece, Mary Jester Allen, began to claim that Denver had conspired to tamper with Cody’s will. In response, Cody’s foster son, Johnny Baker, disinterred the body and had it reburied at the same site under tons of concrete to prevent potential theft

The saga wasn’t over yet. In 1948, the Cody, Wyoming American Legion offered a $10,000 reward to anyone who could disinter the body and return it to Wyoming. In response, the Colorado National Guard stationed officers to keep watch over the grave.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 26, 2023, 05:40:12 PM
my grandparents had a very early Amana "Radar Range"

late 60's early 70's

I used it in college in the early 80's

was heavy
And it doesn't appear that any of your circuits are fried :D
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 26, 2023, 05:57:28 PM
as far as you know
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 26, 2023, 06:16:17 PM
A $3K car now would be lightyears better than a car you could buy for $700 in 1980. It'd probably be better than a car you could buy for $10K in 1980. Car technology and reliability is so far ahead of what it was back then that you may only be able to buy a very high-mileage (150K) car in that range, at least as I search autotrader for cars in that range w/in 100 miles of where I live in SoCal. But it'll still be better than FF's 1970 Nova.
I can honestly say none of my cars(mostly beaters) left me by the side of the road back in the day.At one time or another I had 10-11 yr old Impala I drove over 2yr, a 6 yr old 6cl.Nova i drove 4 yrs then an 11 yr old Dart I drove for 3 yrs,then a 7 yr old Grand Prix I drove for 3 yrs then a 8 yr old Rabbit i drove for 2yrs. The last one had fuse box problems so but I carried fuses and popped them back in. Tires were the problem seems at least 1-2x a yr there would be flat. up to about the 90's. Bought a brand new Corolla then and had that for 16 yrs - rust got it
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 28, 2023, 08:52:35 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Raid on the Branch Davidian Compound (1993)
After investigating charges of child abuse and the illegal stockpiling of weapons at the Texas ranch of the Branch Davidian religious sect, US federal law enforcement agents raided the compound. The confrontation turned violent, and 10 people were killed in the firefight. A siege of the compound ended 51 days later, when the complex was engulfed in flames. At least 76 people, including Davidian leader David Koresh, died in the incident.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 01, 2023, 08:57:01 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Salem Witch Trials Begin (1692)
Viewed by many to be the result of a period of factional infighting and religious hysteria, the witch trials of Puritanical Salem Village, Massachusetts, led to the executions of 20 people—15 women and five men—and the imprisonment of approximately 150 accused witches. Even after the trials ended, people who had previously been found not guilty of witchcraft remained in prison, held until they paid their jail fees.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 01, 2023, 03:31:37 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/334052434_887856239136297_661713843074433943_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=ggtnz4vz_JMAX_X8B3U&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAS2jmqFHASvKVkTiA9H7Mb6OoM8rjmyfykd5HBib93VA&oe=640435F0)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on March 01, 2023, 04:06:59 PM
Texas Independence Day is tomorrow.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 02, 2023, 11:20:13 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Wilt Chamberlain's 100-Point Game (1962)
Recognized as one of the National Basketball Association's greatest players of all time, Wilt Chamberlain led the league in scoring for 7 seasons and in rebounding 11 times, was named the NBA's Most Valuable Player 4 times, and was elected to basketball's Hall of Fame. However, he is perhaps best known for being the only player in league history to score 100 points in a single game—a feat he achieved while playing for the Philadelphia Warriors.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 02, 2023, 08:58:40 PM
Born on this Day

Theodor Seuss Geisel - March 2, 1904

Lou Reed - March 2, 1942

John Bon Jovi Jr. - March 2, 1962

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 02, 2023, 09:05:31 PM
https://youtu.be/Qc-bwzN6IVk
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 02, 2023, 10:24:21 PM


A rare photo of logging drivers on the Hudson River near Glens Falls, New York in 1907.


(https://i.imgur.com/WR4OGRK.png)


Chief Dust Maker, from the Ponca tribe in northern Nebraska, 1898.

(https://i.imgur.com/bmdMYKb.png)


Portrait of Kaw-U-Tz of the Caddo Nation in 1906.

(https://i.imgur.com/Ltr1U8h.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2023, 10:40:57 AM
The Polish physicist Marie Sklodowska Curie (1867-1934) first demonstrated in 1898 that Potassium Uranyl Sulfate, a compound which glowed after exposure to sunlight, emitted radiation because it contains the Uranium atom, and that any compound containing Uranium would also emit radiation.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2023, 08:10:55 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Boston Massacre (1770)
Many Bostonians resented the heavy British military presence in their city during the late 1700s, and the soldiers' enforcement of the unpopular Townshend Acts merely exacerbated the tense situation. On March 5, 1770, soldiers opened fire on an aggressive, rioting civilian mob, killing five men. The Boston Massacre, as it became known, fueled the anti-British sentiment that culminated in the American Revolutionary War. Which future US president served as the troops' defense lawyer?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 06, 2023, 07:50:08 AM
John Adams or Washington I remember reading they both used their skills on drafting legal documents like the Constitution or Declaration of Independence
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 07, 2023, 07:44:20 AM
"Freedom Fries"

"Freedom fries" was a short-lived name used by some in the US for French fries after France resisted condoning the 2003 invasion of Iraq. In March, 2003, all references to French fries and French toast on the menus of restaurants run by the House of Representatives were removed. By July 2006, however, the move had been reversed.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 08, 2023, 08:21:16 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Gnadenhütten Massacre (1782)
During the American Revolution, the Lenape, or Delaware, group of Native Americans found itself divided on the issue of which side, if any, to take in the conflict. Some members elected to fight against the Americans, while others—particularly Christian converts—remained neutral. In 1782, an American militia seeking revenge for Native American raids on frontier settlements killed 96 Christian Delawares in Gnadenhütten, Ohio.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 09, 2023, 09:08:39 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations Is Published (1776)
Published in 1776, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations is the magnum opus of Scottish economist Adam Smith. It is a clearly written account of political economy at the dawn of the Industrial Revolution and is considered the first modern work in the field of economics. In it, Smith postulates the theory of the division of labor and emphasizes that value arises from the labor expended in the process of production.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 10, 2023, 04:51:59 PM
Atchison was born in August 1807 in what’s known today as Lexington, Kentucky, and he studied law in his home state before relocating to Missouri. After he opened his own firm, though, he carved out his place in history by working for Joseph Smith. Smith, in case you didn’t know, was the founder of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints – otherwise known as the Mormon Church.

In 1833 there was a movement to expel Smith’s followers, popularly referred to as Mormons, from Jackson County, MI. But Atchison stepped forward to defend them, winning himself a whole heap of fans in the process. And after being backed by these supporters, he was able to secure a seat in the state’s House of Representatives in 1834.

Still, the Mormons’ troubles weren’t over, and in 1838 the persecution escalated into all-out war. That year, Atchison joined the state militia, serving as a senior officer and helping to control the fighting that was erupting across the state. Then, after peace of a sort was reached, he went on to take a post as a judge in the state court.

Ultimately, though, Atchison was destined for bigger and better things. But how did this promising career culminate in the shortest presidential term in recorded history? Well, the Kentucky native’s ascent to power began in 1843, when he was called upon to step into an empty U.S. Senate seat.

Atchison, being just 36 years old, was far younger than many of the men he served alongside. But that didn’t stop him from becoming well-liked among other Democrats. In fact, in 1845 he was appointed to a significant role within the Senate. This was a key development in the bizarre saga that was to come.

However, while Atchison’s support for the beleaguered Mormons may make him seem like a hero, he was actually nothing of the sort. While in the Senate, he spoke in support of slavery on numerous occasions. He also helped to bring in the Kansas-Nebraska Act of 1854. Thanks to this legislation, the practice of slavery spread to other states – causing further friction in antebellum America.

In fact, according to the U.S. Senate’s own website, Atchison once went so far as to threaten violence against members of the Abolitionist movement. And while this attitude earned Atchison the dubious distinction of having a town named after him in Kansas, it also contributed to the bloodshed that consumed the state. Ultimately, then, he may have helped to fan the flames of the Civil War.

So, how did a vehemently pro-slavery senator wind up as president when many were skirting around abolition? And did this issue have anything to do with the laughable length of his term? Certainly, slavery was a topic that would make or break a number of political careers over the years.

In reality, though, what happened in 1849 was something altogether more bizarre. You see, during the early days of Atchinson’s stint in the Senate, the White House was occupied by President James K. Polk. However, before his election in 1844, Polk had promised to limit his tenure to just a single term.

Keeping his word, Polk left office at precisely midday on March 4, 1849. According to tradition, that was when the next president, the aforementioned Zachary Taylor, should’ve been sworn in. That year, though, Inauguration Day fell on a Sunday – a day that strict Christians tend to reserve for rest.

As a result, the staunchly religious Taylor pushed his inauguration ceremony back to March 5. But with Polk leaving office a day earlier, there was an undeniable gap. Does this mean someone else had been president between one man standing down and the next taking office? According to some historians, it did, and the man who filled the role was Atchison.

This isn’t as far-fetched a prospect as you may think. Back in 1845, Atchison had been appointed president pro tempore of the Senate. Essentially, this meant it was his job to watch over proceedings when the vice president, who was usually in charge at the Senate, was otherwise engaged.

But there was another element to Atchison’s title, and it’s this that inspired one of antebellum America’s strangest political stories. According to the laws of the time, the president pro tempore was also second in line to the presidency. So, technically, if anything had happened to both Polk and his vice president, then Atchison would have been in charge.

Of course, nothing untoward happened to Polk. But he did leave a vacuum of power behind when he stepped down – one that would not be filled for 24 hours. And given that the vice president’s term would also have ended at the same juncture, that may have left Atchison as de facto leader of the country.

Just seven days after Taylor’s eventual inauguration, the Virginia newspaper the Alexandria Gazette published an article seemingly confirming the bizarre theory. It read, “[Atchison] was on Sunday, by virtue of his office, president of the United States – for one day!”

And in 1907 the Philadelphia Press claimed that Atchison had embraced his temporary role with gusto. The newspaper revealed, “That Senator Atchison considered himself president there was no doubt. For on Monday morning, when the Senate reassembled, he sent to the White House for the seal of the great office and signed one or two official papers as president.”

That wasn’t all. According to the Senate’s official website, the article went on to claim that Atchison’s fellow Democrats had jokingly proposed he stage a coup to stop Taylor from taking power. By this point, the story of the shortest presidency ever had spread far and wide, even appearing in the Biographical Directory of the United States Congress.

https://social.entrepreneur.com/s/one-day-president/?as=6dap23852909853900538&utm_source=fb&utm_medium=z020409&utm_content=23852909829700538&utm_campaign=6dap23852909853900538&bdk=z020409_63e26481aa299100083303a2 (https://social.entrepreneur.com/s/one-day-president/?as=6dap23852909853900538&utm_source=fb&utm_medium=z020409&utm_content=23852909829700538&utm_campaign=6dap23852909853900538&bdk=z020409_63e26481aa299100083303a2)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 11, 2023, 08:58:35 AM
The Madrid Train Bombings (2004)

On the morning of March 11, 2004, 10 explosions occurred aboard four commuter trains in Madrid. The series of coordinated bombings killed 191 people and wounded 2,050, making it the deadliest terrorist attack in Spain's history. Although a Basque militant group was originally suspected of the attack, an investigation revealed that it was carried out by an al-Qaeda-inspired terrorist cell. The bombings occurred three days before Spain's general elections
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 12, 2023, 08:39:11 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Truman Doctrine (1947)
In the early stages of the Cold War, US President Harry Truman sought to protect Turkey and Greece from falling under Soviet influence when the UK announced that it could no longer provide them with aid. The Truman Doctrine, which called for the US to "support free peoples who are resisting attempted subjugation by armed minorities or by outside pressures," shifted US foreign policy to a strategy of Soviet containment.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 12, 2023, 09:47:16 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Aw6DFUH.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 12, 2023, 01:52:58 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/335319048_228221626257223_2123839415719830519_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=8_kmMfiViXkAX9doAyv&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDwh_wsZeCG2_kFJtS0pn2w_76YGVOqUUySWV47nFYtKg&oe=641384A6)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 13, 2023, 09:53:09 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Operation Northwoods Proposed (1962)
Operation Northwoods was a plan proposed by the US Department of Defense to generate public support for military action against the Cuban government of Fidel Castro. To this end, it recommended staging acts of simulated or real terrorism and violence on US soil or against US interests and then placing the blame on Cuba. The plan, which was not implemented, was drafted by senior US defense leaders and signed by the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2023, 11:48:58 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/OEhF9PS.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2023, 01:55:13 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/jb5m6L6.png)

A demonstration of the cantilever principle of the Firth of Forth Bridge (Great Britain, 1887). The photo was taken for a lecture on the construction of the bridge at the Royal Institution.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 13, 2023, 01:56:57 PM
were they approved for funding of the bridge project?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2023, 02:04:21 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/6SuCXbm.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 13, 2023, 02:25:13 PM
The Tay Bridge Disaster - The Tay Bridge Disaster (http://taybridgedisaster.co.uk/)

At approximately 7:15 p.m. on the stormy night of 28 December 1879, the central navigation spans of the Tay bridge collapsed into the Firth of Tay at Dundee, taking with them a train, 6 carriages and 75 souls to their fate.
At the time, a gale estimated at Beaufort force 10/11 was blowing down the Tay estuary at right angles to the bridge. The collapse of the bridge, only opened 19 months and passed safe by the Board of Trade, sent shock waves through the Victorian engineering profession and general public.
The disaster is one of the most famous bridge failures and to date it is still one of the worst structural engineering failures in the British Isles. Detailed accounts of the disaster are given by Prebble(1) (http://taybridgedisaster.co.uk/#References) and Thomas(2) (http://taybridgedisaster.co.uk/#References). A fully revised new edition of David Swinfen's(3) (http://taybridgedisaster.co.uk/#References) book on the disaster has just been published. The book, utilising recent research, addresses the questions: What caused the disaster and who was to blame. In addition, it examines the question of how many lives were lost.
(https://www.cfb51.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftaybridgedisaster.co.uk%2Fimages%2Fbelah1.jpg&hash=3858ba994345f941ac9af1e443af99ab)
The first Tay rail bridge was completed in February 1878 to the design of Thomas Bouch. Bouch was responsible for the design, construction and maintenance of the bridge. Most of his bridges were lattice girders supported on slender cast iron columns braced with wrought iron struts and ties, such as the Belah Viaduct in the photograph to the right. The building of the Tay bridge culminated in him being knighted. A modern account of the life and work of Bouch is by Rapley(17) (http://taybridgedisaster.co.uk/#References)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 14, 2023, 07:46:13 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
First Patient Successfully Treated with Penicillin (1942)
Penicillin was the first antibiotic agent successfully used to treat bacterial infections in humans. Penicillin's effect on bacteria was first observed by biologist Alexander Fleming in 1928, but it was not until 1941 that scientists purified the substance and established that it was both effective in fighting infectious organisms and not toxic to humans. The first successful treatment occurred the next year.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 14, 2023, 09:00:56 AM
Sulfonamide drugs were the first broadly effective antibacterials to be used systemically, and paved the way for the antibiotic revolution in medicine. The first sulfonamide, trade-named Prontosil (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prontosil), was a prodrug (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prodrug). Experiments with Prontosil began in 1932 in the laboratories of Bayer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer) AG, at that time a component of the huge German chemical trust IG Farben (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IG_Farben). The Bayer team believed that coal-tar dyes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aniline#History) which are able to bind preferentially to bacteria and parasites might be used to attack harmful organisms in the body. After years of fruitless trial-and-error work on hundreds of dyes, a team led by physician/researcher Gerhard Domagk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Domagk)[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfonamide_(medicine)#cite_note-6) (working under the general direction of IG Farben executive Heinrich Hörlein (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Hörlein)) finally found one that worked: a red dye synthesized by Bayer chemist Josef Klarer (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Josef_Klarer&action=edit&redlink=1) that had remarkable effects on stopping some bacterial infections in mice.[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfonamide_(medicine)#cite_note-7) The first official communication about the breakthrough discovery was not published until 1935, more than two years after the drug was patented by Klarer and his research partner Fritz Mietzsch.[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]

Prontosil (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prontosil), as Bayer named the new drug, was the first medicine ever discovered that could effectively treat a range of bacterial infections inside the body. It had a strong protective action against infections caused by streptococci (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streptococcus), including blood infections, childbed fever (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childbed_fever), and erysipelas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erysipelas), and a lesser effect on infections caused by other cocci. However, it had no effect at all in the test tube, exerting its antibacterial action only in live animals. Later, it was discovered by Daniel Bovet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Bovet),[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfonamide_(medicine)#cite_note-8) Federico Nitti, and Jacques (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Tréfouël_(chemist)) and Thérèse Tréfouël (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thérèse_Tréfouël), a French research team led by Ernest Fourneau (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Fourneau) at the Pasteur Institute (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasteur_Institute), that the drug was metabolized into two parts inside the body, releasing from the inactive dye portion a smaller, colorless, active compound called sulfanilamide (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfanilamide).[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfonamide_(medicine)#cite_note-9) The discovery helped establish the concept of "bioactivation" and dashed the German corporation's dreams of enormous profit; the active molecule sulfanilamide (or sulfa) had first been synthesized in 1906 and was widely used in the dye-making industry; its patent had since expired and the drug was available to anyone.[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfonamide_(medicine)#cite_note-britannica-10)

The result was a sulfa craze.[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfonamide_(medicine)#cite_note-wordpress-11) For several years in the late 1930s, hundreds of manufacturers produced myriad forms of sulfa. This and the lack of testing requirements led to the elixir sulfanilamide (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elixir_sulfanilamide) disaster in the fall of 1937, during which at least 100 people were poisoned with diethylene glycol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethylene_glycol). This led to the passage of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Food,_Drug,_and_Cosmetic_Act) in 1938 in the United States. As the first and only effective broad-spectrum antibiotic available in the years before penicillin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penicillin), heavy use of sulfa drugs continued into the early years of World War II (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II).[12] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfonamide_(medicine)#cite_note-att-12) They are credited with saving the lives of tens of thousands of patients, including Franklin Delano Roosevelt Jr. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_Delano_Roosevelt_Jr.) (son of US President Franklin Delano Roosevelt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_Delano_Roosevelt)) and Winston Churchill (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill).[13] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfonamide_(medicine)#cite_note-13)[14] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfonamide_(medicine)#cite_note-14) Sulfa had a central role in preventing wound infections during the war. American soldiers were issued a first-aid kit (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-aid_kit) containing sulfa pills and powder and were told to sprinkle it on any open wound.[15] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfonamide_(medicine)#cite_note-15)


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2023, 05:51:14 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/baWClOK.jpg)

It ain't nearly as simple as driving a car.  Navigation, for one thing, is interesting (preGPS).
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 16, 2023, 05:57:48 PM
12 March, 1971
On this day in 1971, American rock band the Allman Brothers Band began a two-night series of concerts at the Fillmore East in New York City; the shows were recorded and later released as a live album, "At Fillmore East", in July 1971 in the United States by Capricorn Records.
The live album features the band performing extended jam versions of songs such as "Whipping Post", "You Don't Love Me" and "In Memory of Elizabeth Reed." When first commercially released, it was issued as a double LP with just seven songs across four vinyl sides.
At Fillmore East was the band's artistic and commercial breakthrough, and is widely considered by some critics as one of the greatest live albums in rock music. It continues to be a top seller in the band's catalogue, and became their first album to go platinum.
In 2004, the album was selected for preservation in the US Library of Congress, deemed to be "culturally, historically, or aesthetically important" by the National Recording Registry.


(https://i.imgur.com/thE4lDl.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 16, 2023, 07:51:19 PM
Dwayne's not grabbing his crotch he's hiding a pipe they were passing around when the camerman was happening by. Possession wrap could have caused them to miss a gig - IMHO top 5 Album - EVA

:7505:  😎
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 17, 2023, 09:14:12 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Rubber Band Patented (1845)
In 1845, Stephen Perry, a British inventor and businessman, patented what is now a staple office supply—the rubber band. While their intended function is to hold items together, rubber bands have been used in a number of other capacities; they can be wrapped around one another to form a bouncy ball or used as "ammunition" in rubber band guns. Though many modern rubber products are commonly made with synthetic rubber, rubber bands are still primarily manufactured using natural rubber.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2023, 09:09:57 AM
1985 Cadillac Fleetwood Tested: The Downsized Caddy Disappoints (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a43240023/1985-cadillac-fleetwood-by-the-numbers/?utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3H_-YOBWJSwtIAHmhxdtTKgQOOYkKZ8hzGMbbF0poVh_hBgPceM0gy5ss)

Interestingly, I'd argue the Escalade has saved Caddy using much the same kind of approach.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2023, 09:13:33 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/SABvPz5.png)

USS Iowa's Tube #270, the first 16-inch/Mark 7 gun ever built, is in the process of being moved from storage at Norfolk Naval Shipyard to Fort Story where it will be placed on exhibit near the Old Cape Henry Lighthouse. Tube #270 was installed in Iowa's turret 1 until being removed in 1954 to be relined and saved as a spare.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 18, 2023, 09:24:56 AM
1985 Cadillac Fleetwood Tested: The Downsized Caddy Disappoints (caranddriver.com) (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a43240023/1985-cadillac-fleetwood-by-the-numbers/?utm_campaign=socialflowFBCD&utm_medium=social-media&src=socialflowFBCAD&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3H_-YOBWJSwtIAHmhxdtTKgQOOYkKZ8hzGMbbF0poVh_hBgPceM0gy5ss)

Interestingly, I'd argue the Escalade has saved Caddy using much the same kind of approach.
times have changed in 40 years
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2023, 09:28:38 AM
They have indeed, one of the car mags stated that Caddy makes the best BMWs today.  It has not helped Caddy much to do that, all their profit is in SUVs (none of which are particularly compelling versus competition).  They build some nice sedans and they just don't sell well.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2023, 09:30:01 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/YjNXGSO.png)

It was a notion back in the day that these relationships would prevent a major war in Europe.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 18, 2023, 09:39:10 AM
if ya can't fight with your cousins, who can ya fight with?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2023, 09:51:21 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/BVZ1MWA.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 18, 2023, 09:55:41 AM
They have indeed, one of the car mags stated that Caddy makes the best BMWs today.  It has not helped Caddy much to do that, all their profit is in SUVs (none of which are particularly compelling versus competition).  They build some nice sedans and they just don't sell well.
The '80's was the decade where the Big 3 all tried to kill themselves. So many terrible cars and so few good ones.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2023, 09:57:58 AM
Cars in the 80s were all pretty bad, but the Hondas of the world were generally better.  They had a tendency to rust though.

Rust today is practically nonexistent.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2023, 10:53:28 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/IpKuXKN.png)

I suspect younger folks today would be astonished at the level of development in much of the US circa 1940 and before.  My Dad was born into a house with no electricity.  Paved roads were pretty rare in his area.  Highways?  Nonexistent.  There was a toll road for wagons over the mountains.  US 19/129 did not exist (it still runs on the original grade).
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2023, 11:10:53 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/eHiCkrI.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2023, 11:45:12 AM
The Beginning to the End of the Universe: The mystery of dark energy | Astronomy.com (https://astronomy.com/magazine/news/2021/02/the-beginning-to-the-end-of-the-universe-the-mystery-of-dark-energy?fbclid=IwAR19mIEfaefj5xOeRsCW1RfytvE6aI7MDi3br-UWvrhOp_pnXoR-nRK7D2w)


FROM THE JANUARY 2021 ISSUE (https://astronomy.com/issues/2021/january-2021)
The Beginning to the End of the Universe: The mystery of dark energy
The universe isn’t just expanding, it’s accelerating.
By Bruce Dorminey (https://astronomy.com/authors/bruce-dorminey)  |  Published: Monday, February 1, 2021
RELATED TOPICS: DARK ENERGY (https://astronomy.com/tags/dark-energy) | COSMOLOGY (https://astronomy.com/tags/cosmology)
In 1998, researchers discovered that something was causing the expansion of the universe to speed up.

NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center Conceptual Image Lab
This story comes from our special January 2021 issue, "The Beginning and the End of the Universe.” Click here to purchase the full issue. (https://myscienceshop.com/product/back-issue/asy210101-c)

For almost a century, astronomers have known that the universe is expanding. Space-time is stretching itself out over billions of light-years, carrying the galaxies within it apart, like raisins embedded within a rising loaf of bread. This steady expansion, pitted against the cosmos’ urge to collapse under its own gravity, means there are two main scenarios for how the universe will eventually end. These scenarios are dubbed the Big Crunch — where gravity overcomes expansion and the Big Bang occurs in reverse — and the Big Freeze — where gravity loses out to the expansion and all matter is isolated by unfathomable distances. (See “The Big Crunch vs. the Big Freeze,” page 50.)

For a while, researchers believed the universe’s fate was leaning toward the final scenario. But, in the late 1990s, astronomers discovered something unexpected that changed our understanding of the future of the universe: The most distant galaxies weren’t just moving away from us. They were accelerating.


A cosmological puzzle
This phenomenon was independently discovered by two teams of astronomers who were measuring distant supernovae to calculate the precise rate at which the universe was expanding, expecting to find it slowing down. Three of these scientists — Saul Perlmutter, Adam Riess, and Brian Schmidt — shared the 2011 Nobel Prize in Physics for their discovery.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2023, 11:55:40 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/vVWRhuM.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 18, 2023, 04:58:18 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/LoL7iOU.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 18, 2023, 05:51:13 PM
Opie was a fake???
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 19, 2023, 09:15:17 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Tuskegee Airmen Activated for Service (1941)
The Tuskegee Airmen, trained at Alabama's Tuskegee Army Air Field during WWII, made up the US military's first African-American flying unit. In 1941, congressional legislation forced the Army Air Corps to create an all-black combat unit, and though the War Department aimed to block its formation by instituting a number of restrictive guidelines for applicants, many qualified for service. In all, these airmen flew 1,578 missions, destroyed 261 enemy aircraft
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 19, 2023, 09:54:22 PM
During its career, the SR-71 Blackbird gathered intelligence in some of the world’s most hostile environments. The SR-71 was conceived to operate at extreme velocities, altitudes and temperatures: actually, it was the first aircraft constructed with titanium, as the friction caused by air molecules passing over its surface at Mach 2.6 would melt a conventional aluminum frame.

Its engineering was so cutting edge that even the tools to build the SR-71 needed to be designed from scratch.

There are so many interesting facts about the legendary Blackbird.

For instance, the glass of the canopy of the SR-71 cockpit was made of 1.25-inch thick solid quartz.

Yes, the solid quartz glass of the canopy was 1.25 inches thick and was hot to the touch from the inside!

According to Military Machine, pilots and RSOs, even with gloves on, couldn’t keep their hands by the glass for more than a few seconds without doing damage. The crewmembers wore David Clark Company’s pressured suits for their protection. The David Clark Company’s pressured suits made it possible for SR-71 crew members to fly at altitudes that would otherwise kill them! 

Let’s talk about the windows in the SR-71 and about the severe heat the windshield of the SR-71 would experience at top speeds. Skunk Works Designers ultimately decided that using solid quartz for the windshield was the best way to prevent any blur or window distortion under these conditions, so they ultrasonically fused the solid quartz to the aircraft’s titanium hull to make the quietest cockpit possible; the estimated temperature of the outside of the cockpit of 600 degrees F.

As reported by The SR-71 Blackbird website, the integrity of the double solid quartz camera window demanded special attention because of the optical distortion caused by the effect of great heat (600 degrees F.) on the outside of the window and a much lower temperature (150 degrees F.) on the inside could keep the cameras from taking usable photographs. Three years and $2 million later, the Corning Glass Works came up with a solution: the window was fused to its metal frame by a novel process using high frequency sound waves.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 20, 2023, 05:23:08 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/W1y56F5.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 20, 2023, 08:38:07 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Subway Sarin Incident (1995)
On March 20, 1995, members of the Japanese religious sect Aum Shinrikyo released sarin gas, a nerve agent, on several lines of the Tokyo Metro system in five coordinated attacks, killing 12 and injuring thousands. Carrying homemade liquid sarin packaged in plastic bags, the perpetrators boarded the trains, punctured the packets, and left them to vaporize on the car floors. More than 10 Aum members were sentenced to death for their involvement in the incident.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 20, 2023, 03:16:55 PM
The Industrial Confederacy: The Augusta Power Works — Civil Discourse (civildiscourse-historyblog.com) (http://civildiscourse-historyblog.com/blog/2021/4/27/the-industrial-confederacy-the-augusta-power-works)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 20, 2023, 09:31:01 PM
During its career, the SR-71 Blackbird gathered intelligence in some of the world’s most hostile environments. The SR-71 was conceived to operate at extreme velocities, altitudes and temperatures: actually, it was the first aircraft constructed with titanium, as the friction caused by air molecules passing over its surface at Mach 2.6 would melt a conventional aluminum frame.

Its engineering was so cutting edge that even the tools to build the SR-71 needed to be designed from scratch.

There are so many interesting facts about the legendary Blackbird.

For instance, the glass of the canopy of the SR-71 cockpit was made of 1.25-inch thick solid quartz.

Yes, the solid quartz glass of the canopy was 1.25 inches thick and was hot to the touch from the inside!

According to Military Machine, pilots and RSOs, even with gloves on, couldn’t keep their hands by the glass for more than a few seconds without doing damage. The crewmembers wore David Clark Company’s pressured suits for their protection. The David Clark Company’s pressured suits made it possible for SR-71 crew members to fly at altitudes that would otherwise kill them!

Let’s talk about the windows in the SR-71 and about the severe heat the windshield of the SR-71 would experience at top speeds. Skunk Works Designers ultimately decided that using solid quartz for the windshield was the best way to prevent any blur or window distortion under these conditions, so they ultrasonically fused the solid quartz to the aircraft’s titanium hull to make the quietest cockpit possible; the estimated temperature of the outside of the cockpit of 600 degrees F.

As reported by The SR-71 Blackbird website, the integrity of the double solid quartz camera window demanded special attention because of the optical distortion caused by the effect of great heat (600 degrees F.) on the outside of the window and a much lower temperature (150 degrees F.) on the inside could keep the cameras from taking usable photographs. Three years and $2 million later, the Corning Glass Works came up with a solution: the window was fused to its metal frame by a novel process using high frequency sound waves.


(https://i.imgur.com/ryFrytr.jpg)



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 21, 2023, 07:00:39 AM
Top 22 Breakthroughs of 2022 vs. 1922 (diamandis.com) (https://www.diamandis.com/blog/2022breakthroughs)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2023, 08:26:10 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Exxon Valdez Oil Spill (1989)
On March 24, 1989, the Exxon Valdez oil tanker hit Prince William Sound's Bligh Reef and spilled approximately 11 million US gallons (41 million liters) of crude oil into the sea, covering 11,000 square miles (28,000 km²) of ocean. As a result of the spill, an estimated 250,000 sea birds, 1,000 sea otters, and countless fish and other wildlife died. The ship's captain was widely criticized after the incident, but many others factors contributed to the crash.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2023, 10:48:08 AM
The contiguous United States occupies an area of 3,119,884.69 square miles (8,080,464.3 km2). Of this area, 2,959,064.44 square miles (7,663,941.7 km2) is actual land, composing 83.65 percent of the country's total land area, and is slightly smaller than the area of Australia.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 25, 2023, 08:33:07 AM
Gulag

The Gulag was a system of forced-labor prison camps in the USSR, from the Russian acronym for the Main Directorate of Corrective Labor Camps, a department of the Soviet secret police. It was first established under Lenin during the early Bolshevik years and ultimately included 476 camp complexes. The system reached its peak after 1928 under Stalin, who used it to maintain the Soviet state by keeping its populace in a state of terror.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2023, 09:35:51 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/OTL7lDI.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2023, 09:44:03 AM
A Masters from Georgia. Not a degree in Athens –- a golf tournament in Augusta. And it was a hit off the first tee.
After golfer Bobby Jones retired, he and businessman Clifford Roberts developed a national landmark. Jones brought credibility, while Roberts had business savvy. Jones and noted golf course architect Alister Mackenzie designed the course on an abandoned 365-acre nursery called Fruitlands. It had been a plantation once.
Roberts and Jones wanted a major tournament at Augusta National, but when? Summer? Impossibly hot! But spring? Unbeatably beautiful! The flowers were in bloom and no other major tournament competed. They decided to stage an annual event hosted by Jones, who would come out of retirement once a year to play at what was first called the Augusta National Golf Club Invitation Tournament. Horton Smith won the first year. It officially became the Masters in 1939; the green jacket ceremony began in 1949.
One of the world’s iconic sporting events began on March 22, 1934,


(https://i.imgur.com/D3PIRRI.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2023, 04:26:47 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/IZGrXS0.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2023, 05:11:23 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/aEpbvD3.png)

A thing which surprised me when I read about it was who Ptolemy was ...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2023, 11:55:56 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/gueGbgb.png)

The little known side of transatlantic voyages.
Boiler men working deep in the Titanic.
48 survived of 167.
The ship had 29 boilers in total being fed coal 24 hours a day.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 27, 2023, 12:48:29 PM
https://youtu.be/4XFYMjkFYPg
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 28, 2023, 07:25:27 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Three Mile Island Accident (1979)
Both mechanical failure and human error contributed to the 1979 failure of a nuclear reactor cooling system at the Three Mile Island Nuclear Generating Station in Pennsylvania, which led to overheating, partial melting of the reactor's uranium core, and the release of radioactive gases. Though it caused no immediate deaths or injuries, the incident increased public fears about the safety of nuclear power.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2023, 08:11:21 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/CA3upOz.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 28, 2023, 08:24:45 AM
been through there a few times, just 20 minutes south of the University of Iowa

nice golf course and casino along the Iowa river
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2023, 08:49:47 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/b6GKDNO.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 28, 2023, 09:11:51 AM
similar to stone soup
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2023, 09:46:57 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/aeBZLIa.png)

First bottling plant (opened in 1899, photo is later).
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2023, 07:04:44 PM
I was looking at old CFB scores and results and found in 1911, UGA in football:

Beat Sewanee 12-7
Beat Mercer      8-5
Lost to Vandy 17-0
Beat Tech   5-0
Tied Auburn 0-0

and finished 7-1-1 ... I thought that rather strange.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2023, 07:10:56 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/WqDkrGM.png)

The Junkers G.38 - Once the largest airplane in the world with passengers on two flight decks and in the wings, and all engines being servicable in flight! Unusually, of the G.38’s four engines, two of them were different types. Both were Junkers diesel engines. Whilst similar on the surface, they were completely separate designs. [color=var(--blue-link)]https://planehistoria.com/pioneers/junkers-g-38/ (https://planehistoria.com/pioneers/junkers-g-38/?fbclid=IwAR0n-YwGKUtuClnwvg5s6O2Ei1qQoALJZ3QSpj0hMiUtrM3xPlQemN5a5AU)[/url][/font][/size][/color]
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2023, 07:13:50 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/siXg7Nv.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2023, 07:15:04 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/uROMl8f.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2023, 08:14:45 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/uROMl8f.png)
The Milwaukee Braves were unique among professional sports franchises. When owner Lou Perini moved his National League baseball club from Boston to Milwaukee in March 1953, the Braves became the first major league ball club (https://emke.uwm.edu/entry/professional-baseball) to change cities in half a century. The shift initiated a series of westward migrations by teams and provided the impetus for league expansion.

Perini’s decision to move the Braves to Wisconsin rested on three factors: attendance in Boston, in competition with the Red Sox, was sparse; Fred Miller (https://emke.uwm.edu/entry/miller-brewing-company), president of the brewery that produced Miller High Life, provided Perini moral support and advertising revenue; and newly-built Milwaukee County Stadium (https://emke.uwm.edu/entry/milwaukee-county-stadium), which offered parking for nearly 10,000 cars (https://emke.uwm.edu/entry/tailgating), was ready to receive a big-league tenant.

County Stadium was the first major league ballpark built with lights (https://emke.uwm.edu/entry/energy) (other teams had added lights to pre-existing stadiums) and the first paid for entirely with public funds. The stadium had actually been built for the minor league Milwaukee Brewers (https://emke.uwm.edu/entry/milwaukee-brewers). Because Perini also owned the Brewers, he was able to transfer his Milwaukee farm club to Toledo to make way for the Braves.

Milwaukee fans inherited an array of heroes to worship. They had handsome young slugger Eddie Mathews, who led the majors in home runs. They had high-kicking southpaw Warren Spahn, on his way to the Hall of Fame. They had powerful Joe Adcock, feisty Johnny Logan, speedy Billy Bruton, Wisconsin farm boy Andy Pafko—and the next spring they added the legend-in-the-making Henry Aaron (https://emke.uwm.edu/entry/henry-aaron).

The Milwaukee Braves quickly became the sensation of baseball. Local merchants showered the ballplayers with gifts, from dry-cleaning service to fermented beverages (https://emke.uwm.edu/entry/brewing). Fans packed the grandstand and cheered every move by anyone in a Braves uniform. The Braves led the league almost until July and wound up in second behind the Brooklyn Dodgers.

Despite playing in a ballpark without bleachers in center or right field, and with no advance ticket sales, the Braves established a National League attendance record of 1,826,397. The following year they surpassed that number by more than 300,000.

The Braves reached the pinnacle of their sport in 1957, polishing off Casey Stengel’s New York Yankees to capture the World Series. Lew Burdette hurled three complete-game victories, including two shutouts, to bring the championship to “Bushville,” which Milwaukee legend suggests was the sobriquet applied to the city by the Yankees.

In 1958 the Braves repeated as pennant winners but fell to the Yankees in the World Series, four games to three. The following season Milwaukee tied for first but lost to the L.A. Dodgers in a playoff.

As attendance declined, Perini sold the Braves in November 1962 to a group of investors from Chicago. They tried to move the club to Atlanta after the 1964 season, but the stadium lease held them in Milwaukee through 1965. State Attorney General Bronson La Follette sued to keep the team, but on Opening Day 1966 the once-beloved Braves, who had never experienced a losing season in 13 years in Milwaukee, were playing in Atlanta Stadium.



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2023, 08:19:24 AM
Atlanta stadium was built for $16 million (and it showed) and cost $68 million to demolish and cart away.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2023, 08:58:39 AM
Atlanta really likes building stadiums for its teams.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2023, 09:42:39 AM
They do, and they like tearing down old ones.  The old Turner Field is now the football stadium for Georgia State.  At least the MB dome was not using city monies.  (Well, it's a tax paid by visitors etc.)  

Folks here voted a new sales tax for MARTA a few years back and today there is a lot of concern about where that money went, it doesn't seem to have gone into transit.

Cities ...

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 29, 2023, 09:50:27 AM
Atlanta really likes building stadiums for its teams.
They do, and they like tearing down old ones.  The old Turner Field is now the football stadium for Georgia State. 
Good they can Build a roof in Cleveland for us. BROWNS owner Jimmy Hasbeen has been rattling sabers he wants one.They have passed I don't know 3-4 sin taxes since '94 - EFF them. The slime ball in a sea of puss owner just last year gave a 230 million guaranteed contract to a QB with no less than 25 sexual misconduct/harrassment charges against him. And Jimmy Hasbeen should seriously be doing time for fraud
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2023, 09:53:33 AM
Pass a hotel tax and rental car tax and pay for it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 29, 2023, 10:17:17 AM
Do enough tourists visit Cleveland to pay for a dome? Conventions?

???
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 29, 2023, 10:51:59 AM
rock and roll hall of fame
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 29, 2023, 10:52:21 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Ireland Bans Smoking in All Public Places (2004)
In the latter part of the 20th century, research on the health risks of secondhand tobacco smoke spurred legislative bodies throughout the world to consider smoking bans. On March 29, 2004, Ireland became the first country to implement a nationwide ban on smoking in public places, including all enclosed workplaces. Many nations have since followed with similar legislation.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2023, 11:05:00 AM
Funding is an insue for smaller cities when it comes to stadia.  Film at 11.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Riffraft on March 29, 2023, 11:25:17 AM
Good they can Build a roof in Cleveland for us. BROWNS owner Jimmy Hasbeen has been rattling sabers he wants one.They have passed I don't know 3-4 sin taxes since '94 - EFF them. The slime ball in a sea of puss owner just last year gave a 230 million guaranteed contract to a QB with no less than 25 sexual misconduct/harrassment charges against him. And Jimmy Hasbeen should seriously be doing time for fraud
He actually just said the other day at the Owners Meeting that he is in favor of renovating First Energy rather than building a new stadium. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 29, 2023, 02:48:57 PM
https://youtu.be/Lb-3ks6F1b8
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 30, 2023, 08:03:07 AM

[th]This Day in History[/th]
[th]
  • (http://www.facebook.com/share.php?u=https://www.thefreedictionary.com%2F_%2Farchive.htm.aspx%3Fshr%3Dh19446)
  • (https://twitter.com/share?url=https://www.thefreedictionary.com%2F_%2Farchive.htm.aspx%3Fshr%3Dh19446&text=This Day in History%3A US President Ronald Reagan Is Shot)
  • (https://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/WoD/rss.aspx?type=history)
[/th]
(https://img.tfd.com/IOD/Reagan_recovering_after_being_shot_1981.jpg) (https://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Reagan+assassination+attempt)
US President Ronald Reagan Is Shot (1981) (https://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Reagan+assassination+attempt)
Just 69 days into his presidency, Ronald Reagan was shot in Washington, DC, along with three others. The would-be assassin, John Hinckley, Jr., was motivated by an obsession with actress Jodie Foster and the film Taxi Driver. Reagan soon recovered, and Hinckley was found not guilty by reason of insanity and confined to a psychiatric facility. While Reagan was hospitalized, Secretary of State Alexander Haig made a controversial statement about presidential succession

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 01, 2023, 09:30:54 AM
Today in history: April 1

In 1976, Apple Computer was founded by Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak and Ronald Wayne.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2023, 09:36:28 AM
My step son has a photo of him and Wozniak, it's pretty cool.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 02, 2023, 08:12:16 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First Congresswoman in US History Takes Her Seat (1917)
Sometimes referred to as the "Lady of the House," Jeannette Rankin was the first woman to be elected to the US House of Representatives and the first female member of Congress. Just days into her term, she drew the ire of the press by voting, along with 56 others, against the resolution to enter WWI. In 1940, Rankin was again elected to Congress and once again voted against entering a world war, though this time she was the only Congress member to do so.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2023, 08:33:25 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/2ekrcja.png)

The offices of the Central Social Institution of Prague with the largest vertical letter file in the world, 1937. Those people in lifting desks were at the controls of 3000 drawers of information.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2023, 11:30:33 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/XvE2PHK.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2023, 03:10:12 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/jUw53eo.png)

Harvester of thirty-three horses. USA, 1902.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 03, 2023, 03:18:47 PM
30 just wasn't quite as efficient

apparently
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2023, 03:32:34 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/8ndzBBk.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 05, 2023, 09:06:50 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Battle of the Ice (1242)
The Teutonic Knights attacked the Republic of Novgorod in 1242 as part of their Northern Crusades, which were directed against pagans and Eastern Orthodox Christians rather than Muslims in the Holy Land. Waged on the frozen surface of Lake Peipus, which now sits on the border of Estonia and Russia, the Battle of the Ice proved disastrous for the knights. Though some historians consider the battle a major turning point in the Northern Crusades, others believe it was only a minor skirmish.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 06, 2023, 01:00:27 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Opening of the First Modern Olympic Games (1896)
In 1894, after efforts by Frenchman Pierre de Coubertin to revive the ancient Greek Olympics, the newly established International Olympic Committee appointed the Greek capital of Athens as the host city for the first modern international Olympic Games. Held between April 6 and 15, 1896, the games drew athletes from 14 countries for several athletic events, including the first modern marathon.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2023, 10:05:08 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/VB2kTXa.jpg)

The Convair XC-99 began life as an experimental transport aircraft and is perhaps one of the most unique designs of a larger plane by using the pusher formation. Designed in the late 1940s as a variant of the Convair B-36 Peacemaker bomber, the XC-99 held the record as the largest piston-driven propeller plane constructed in the United States. [color=var(--blue-link)]https://planehistoria.com/cold-war/convair-xc-99/ (https://planehistoria.com/cold-war/convair-xc-99/?fbclid=IwAR1trsYex3fly_UbEUDtPoOT_gg2B-f-zw_TN14lmXtbzh6GKHUPvVg4t5U)[/url][/font][/size][/color]
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 07, 2023, 11:41:57 AM
Canals:
The canal era was remarkably shortlived due to canals being quickly overtaken by rail as a means of transport but nonetheless, the canal era left a lasting mark on our country, particularly the area of most of the core of our conference, Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, and Minnesota.  

First some background:
My home city of Medina, Ohio was established in 1818.  People who lived here then were basically subsistence farmers living in a near-wilderness with little or no connection to the outside world.  The land of the upper Midwest was (and is) some of the best farmland in the world so a family farm, even in those early days, could easily produce more grain than the family consumed but it was difficult to sell the excess.  The problem was that basically everybody living here was farming and they all had their own surplus agricultural products so there was little or no local market since everybody was looking to sell so there weren't buyers.  

If you look at a map, there are two basic ways to get surplus agricultural products from the upper Midwest to the national and world market:


There were several major problems with the Mississippi:
Steam boats did not appear on the Mississippi until 1811 and they didn't appear in large numbers until much later.  Before the advent of steamboats it was, of course, possible to build a riverboat anywhere along the Mississippi or it tributaries and float it down to NOLA using the current but the crew had to walk back.  Incidentally, the boats were sold for lumber in NOLA and the lumber was used to build houses in NOLA and for the NOLA shipbuilding industry.  The problem was that doing all this just to bring back money that you couldn't buy anything with was pointless.  Midwestern farmers wanted European and East Coast manufactured goods such as plows but bringing anything upriver was extremely difficult and generally cost prohibitive.  

A second problem, at least for those living east of Louisville, Kentucky was that there is a natural falls on the Ohio River at Louisville.  Until a Canal was built around it there were several options to deal with this issue:

There were several major problems with the overland route:
First it is a long trip.  Second, there are mountains to cross.  Third, wagons carry substantially smaller amounts of cargo than even relatively small riverboats.  The usual solution to this was to distill the surplus grain into whiskey which could be more economically shipped by putting it barrels and loading the barrels into wagons.  This led to the Whiskey Rebellion during Washington's Presidency when farmers in Western PA violently opposed tax increases on their product.  

All of these problems were solved in remarkably rapid succession:

I'm focused here on Canals specifically.  The opening of the Erie Canal converted literally thousands of frontier wilderness famers in the upper Midwest into members of the global economy.  Agricultural products were sent by boat along lakes Superior, Michigan, Huron, and Erie (and various rivers flowing into them) to Buffalo then floated East on the Erie Canal to Albany then downriver to NYC where these products were part of the international market.  On the return trip manufactured goods from the Eastern United States and Europe were shipped up to Albany, West along the Erie Canal to Buffalo, then on the Great lakes to places as far away as Duluth.  

The impact of the Erie Canal on this region cannot be overstated.  

Akron:
As  evident from my username here, I live in Medina, Ohio.  Medina is the County Seat of Medina County which is immediately West of Summit County in which Akron is located.  Akron was not founded until 1825 and the name comes from an ancient Greek word meaning Summit or high point.  Thus Akron and Summit County are both named for the fact that the high point of the Ohio and Erie Canal (from Cleveland to Portsmouth) is in the City of Akron.  

As noted above, Akron was not founded until 1825.  Contrast Medina which was founded in 1818 and Ravenna which was founded in 1799.  Akron's whole reason for existence is the canal.  Prior to the building of the canal, the "big" cities in this area were the Ravenna, the County seat of Portage County which is immediately East of Summit County and Medina, the County Seat of Medina County which is immediately West of Summit County.  Speaking of Counties, Summit County was not formed until 1840 when it was carved out of Portage, Medina, and Stark (to the South, Canton).  The reason it was formed was that due to the growth of Akron as the canal business exploded the businesses of Akron complained to the State that their legal issues had to be resolved miles away in the courts in Medina and Ravenna and they wanted their own County.  

The Ohio and Erie Canal in Ohio was related to the Erie Canal in New York in that without the Erie Canal in New York the Ohio and Erie Canal in Ohio would have served little purpose.  It would have facilitated trade within the State and beyond along the Great Lakes (excluding Ontario) but there was little demand for that as basically everybody living there had the same products to sell.  The completion of the Erie Canal in New York meant that the Great Lakes were part of the global market and thus subsidiary canals into the interior such as the Ohio and Erie Canal opened up those areas to the global market.  

Ironically, the Ohio and Erie Canal only carried freight for 34 years from 1827-1861.  By 1861 demand ended due to more efficient and reliable (year around) competition from Railroads.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2023, 12:52:28 PM
17 Curious Facts About the Miami & Erie Canal - Cincinnati Magazine (https://www.cincinnatimagazine.com/article/17-curious-facts-about-the-miami-erie-canal/#:~:text=The Miami %26 Erie Canal extended,aqueducts and employed 106 locks.)

Even those former boys who in their dotage fondly remembered swimming in the Miami & Erie Canal recalled the stench from industrial wastes including grease, acids, and chemical salts; rotting animal carcasses; the occasional corpse; and the contents of innumerable chamber pots emptied into the stream from tenements along the banks. When a swimmer yelled “floater,” there was no telling what was on the way, but everyone scrambled out of the water.

(https://i.imgur.com/aAlXxrG.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2023, 12:58:03 PM
Watch | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/watch?v=579916227405773)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2023, 01:07:11 PM
This is one of the neatest things I've seen, a canal bridge over a fairly large river.

Canal de Briare Guide: One of the Oldest Canals in France : European Waterways (https://www.europeanwaterways.com/blog/canal-de-briare/)

(https://i.imgur.com/L4uxdlb.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 07, 2023, 01:41:12 PM
The Swedish warship Vasa sank after sailing roughly 1,300 m (1,400 yd) into her maiden voyage on 10 August 1628
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 07, 2023, 01:50:05 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Beer_Day_%28United_States%29

National Beer Day is celebrated in the United States every year on April 7, marking the day that the Cullen–Harrison Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cullen–Harrison_Act) came into force after having been signed into law by President Franklin D. Roosevelt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt) on March 22, 1933. This led to the Eighteenth Amendment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution) being repealed on December 5, 1933, with the ratification of the Twenty-first Amendment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-first_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution).[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Beer_Day_(United_States)#cite_note-1) April 6, the day prior to National Beer Day, is known as New Beer's Eve.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on April 07, 2023, 02:19:35 PM
I'm down to celebrate NBD.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 08, 2023, 06:49:30 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Krak des Chevaliers Conquered (1271)
One of the most important preserved medieval military castles in the world, the Krak des Chevaliers in Syria was the headquarters of the Knights Hospitaller during the Crusades. The largest Crusader fortress in the Holy Land, it could hold up to 2,000 soldiers and included a chapel, a storage facility, and two stables that could accommodate up to 1,000 horses. Though it is estimated that the Hospitallers could have withstood a siege for five years, the fortress was captured in 1271.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 08, 2023, 06:57:36 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/nDVgXG9.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 08, 2023, 10:20:25 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/27AU6ml.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 08, 2023, 02:34:16 PM
Weird 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 09, 2023, 07:35:45 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Beer_Day_%28United_States%29

National Beer Day is celebrated in the United States every year on April 7, marking the day that the Cullen–Harrison Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cullen–Harrison_Act) came into force after having been signed into law by President Franklin D. Roosevelt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt) on March 22, 1933. This led to the Eighteenth Amendment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution) being repealed on December 5, 1933, with the ratification of the Twenty-first Amendment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-first_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution).[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Beer_Day_(United_States)#cite_note-1) April 6, the day prior to National Beer Day, is known as New Beer's Eve.
Damn how'd I miss that,well I guess I'll just throw on some Tom T. Hall in honor of
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 09, 2023, 08:41:38 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/uavP422.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 10, 2023, 09:39:54 AM
On April 10, 1912, the British liner RMS Titanic set sail from Southampton, England, on its ill-fated maiden voyage.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 10, 2023, 05:40:16 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/BO8LIf1.jpg)

This image presents the territorial expansion and main battles and expansion directions of Genghis Khan and his descendants in the 13th century. The map also shows the location of the main conquered cities, empires, and peoples.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 10, 2023, 05:53:40 PM
Rocky Marciano hits the heaybag with his thunderous right hand. Marciano although he stood at all of five feet eleven inches and had the shortest reach of all past heavyweight champions at only 68 inches ‘the Brockton blockbuster’ sure could pack a punch. His trainer Charley Goldman said of Marciano years later how he and Al Weill would invite ‘green kids’ down to assess their chances of making it,he said “I’ll eat my derby hat if I ever saw anyone cruder than Rocky. He was so awkward that we stood there and laughed. He didn’t stand right. He didn’t throw a punch right. He didn’t block right. He didn’t do anything right. Then he hit Chancey with a roundhouse right which nearly put a hole in the guy’s head, and I told Weill that maybe I could do something with him.” Goldman explained to his assistant, Angelo Dundee, that although Marciano lacked height and finesse, he had great punching power. Dundee said, "Charley taught the technique that if you are short, you make yourself smaller. Charley let him bend his knees to a deep knee squat. He was able to punch from that position, come straight up from the bag and hit a heck of a shot ... It was just bang-bang-bang-bang-BANG and get him outta there."

Rocky Marciano may of been considered awkward with no finesse,height or reach yet he’s the only heavyweight champion to retire as unbeaten champion not bowing down to the pull of coming back once retired. He fought 49 professional bouts winning all 49 scoring 43 of those by way of knockout. The short stumpy arms,thick legs and slow feet were compensated by a well greased engine of that to rival any champion in history,a heart of a lion and a determination unrivalled…… the little guy stands as tall as a giant amongst his heavyweight contemporaries….49-0 undefeated….43 knockouts….. the numbers do not lie. The man could whack!

(https://i.imgur.com/DZ5h3yK.png)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 11, 2023, 08:14:48 AM
The forefather of the modern-day park ranger, Harry Yount, Yellowstone’s first gamekeeper, was stationed at Tower-Roosevelt Junction through the Lamar Valley in 1880 to help stop the illegal slaughter of animals.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 11, 2023, 10:09:12 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/doP38Vp.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: ELA on April 11, 2023, 12:07:52 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/BO8LIf1.jpg)

This image presents the territorial expansion and main battles and expansion directions of Genghis Khan and his descendants in the 13th century. The map also shows the location of the main conquered cities, empires, and peoples.
https://youtu.be/l1_bp8YKUPU
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2023, 09:39:02 AM
The construction of the Eisenhower Tunnel! This year we continue to celebrate 50 years of the Eisenhower Tunnel, which opened to traffic in 1973.
Tunnel planning and construction spanned four decades, starting in 1932. The geology of the tunnel was a challenge for construction, and one of the project's resident engineers even described it saying, "We have two kinds of rock: bad and very bad."
The issues with the geology of the tunnel ended up adding a considerable amount of time to the construction timeline. Over the five year period of construction of the Eisenhower bore, 6,000 people worked a total of approximately 4.9 million hours.
Construction of the tunnel was monumental for the time, and is still considered an impressive engineering feat by today's standards. Thanks to the hard work and dedication from everyone involved, Colorado now boasts the highest tunnel in the US Interstate system!



I've driven US 6 up over the pass where you can look down and see the Interstate disappearing into the tunnel.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 12, 2023, 01:54:05 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/gfGbDye.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 13, 2023, 10:22:57 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Jallianwala Bagh Massacre (1919)
Named for the enclosed park where it took place, the Jallianwala Bagh Massacre occurred in India on April 13, 1919, when British troops under the command of General Reginald Dyer opened fire without warning on a crowd of roughly 10,000 Indians protesting the arrest of two Indian National Congress leaders. At least 379 demonstrators were killed and another 1,200 were wounded during the barrage, which is said to have lasted 10 minutes. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 13, 2023, 10:45:27 PM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Butch Cassidy (1866)
Born Robert LeRoy Parker, Butch Cassidy was a notorious outlaw who began robbing trains and cattle rustling in the mid-1880s. By 1900, he had partnered with Harry Longabaugh—the "Sundance Kid," whose nickname was derived from the name of a town where he had once been imprisoned. They became the foremost members of the Wild Bunch, a notorious group of bank and train robbers. The two evaded US authorities by escaping to South America, where they continued their criminal pursuits.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 14, 2023, 08:43:07 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 
Frank Serpico (1936)
Serpico is a retired New York City police officer who is most famous for being the first officer in US history to testify about widespread police corruption. Just months before he testified in 1971, he was shot in the face during a drug bust under suspicious circumstances, leading some to believe that corrupt officers had set him up. Shortly thereafter, Serpico, a film based on his life and starring Al Pacino, was released.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2023, 09:18:55 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/BgZvVew.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 15, 2023, 12:09:03 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/341032690_622852303022738_3544930964041961963_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=k5h_KIA5LlsAX_CRB3S&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAKTcHCRIuujwPiUrpLqV-p3GAuOZqoiEdg1fmBL9ZhOg&oe=64409059)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 15, 2023, 10:02:13 PM
Some 111 years ago, the Titanic sank (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2022/11/19/how-many-people-died-titanic-how-many-survived/10605754002/) into the depths of the Atlantic Ocean.
Tragedy struck during the British luxury passenger liner's maiden voyage. Four days into the ship's journey from Southampton, England, to New York City, the Titanic collided with an iceberg (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2022/04/15/titanic-anniversary-photos/7330806001/) off the coast of Newfoundland on the night of April 14, 1912.
The 882.5-foot-long ship (https://www.britannica.com/topic/Titanic) disappeared beneath the ocean in the early hours of April 15, 1912, at about 2:20 a.m.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 15, 2023, 11:48:30 PM
https://youtu.be/4XFYMjkFYPg
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 16, 2023, 12:03:04 AM
Eagle rock on the pier side!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2023, 06:03:47 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/2zSezzo.png)

I remember going on a tour back when you could go inside.  They told us the width at the base if 660 feet and it's over built by more than 2x.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2023, 12:53:00 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/KXugMYZ.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2023, 02:11:33 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ycut1aX.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 16, 2023, 02:19:49 PM
apparently, didn't pan out
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2023, 06:17:29 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/fvKmdqA.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2023, 08:25:00 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/FfixsXZ.png)

I noticed the S&W cafeteria in the photo left and was pondering whatever became of the cafeteria concept.  I know it still exists in places, but rarely.  I used to like them in grad school.  I guess they sort of morphed into self service buffet things now.

Anyone here been to a Golden Corral lately?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2023, 09:12:45 AM
the Golden Corral here closed during the pandemic, building for sale, looked doomed

then a few months ago opened up as Golden Corral

it is now closed again

my father liked the place (could get your money's worth and little tipping)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2023, 09:13:19 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Bay of Pigs Invasion Begins (1961)
The ill-fated Bay of Pigs invasion was a US-supported invasion of Cuba by an armed force of approximately 1,500 Cuban exiles attempting to overthrow the government of Fidel Castro. Trained and armed by the US government, the rebels intended to foment an insurrection in Cuba, but the rebellion never materialized and the Cuban army defeated the invading forces in a matter of days.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 17, 2023, 10:58:10 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/KXugMYZ.png)
USS North Carolina ?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2023, 08:28:44 AM
It's the Alabama next to an older BB showing the relative size of each nicely.  The upper one might be California, I forget now.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Kris60 on April 18, 2023, 09:08:26 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/FfixsXZ.png)

I noticed the S&W cafeteria in the photo left and was pondering whatever became of the cafeteria concept.  I know it still exists in places, but rarely.  I used to like them in grad school.  I guess they sort of morphed into self service buffet things now.

Anyone here been to a Golden Corral lately?
When I was a kid we had a Golden Corral in town but it wasn’t a buffet.  In fact, it was sort of considered the “nice” place in town to go eat. I remember my mom and dad came into a little bit of money one time and they took us out to eat there.  It was a big deal. Lol.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: ELA on April 18, 2023, 09:20:54 AM
There are still a couple cafeteria style around WV I think.  Mehlman's Cafeteria I hear people talking about quite a bit, I think it's up near Wheeling
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2023, 09:28:10 AM
There is one in Gainesville, GA that is/was locally famous, a kind of place politicians will  visit when an election nears.  It's listed as closed.

I don't know of any nearish me, but there probably are some.  It seems like a concept largely replaced by buffets.

I dislike the "Brazilian steak" concept personally because I feel like I need to "get my money's worth".  I'd rather pay about the same and just order what I want.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 18, 2023, 10:05:33 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

WWI: French Pilot Roland Garros Lands Behind Enemy Lines (1915)
One of the first flying aces in history, Roland Garros was a French aviator and WWI fighter pilot. Early in the war, Garros fitted a machine gun to the front of his plane so that he could shoot while flying and soon downed three German aircrafts. While on a mission in 1915, his fuel line clogged, and he was forced to land behind German lines. He was captured and held as a prisoner of war until 1918, when he managed to escape and rejoin the French army.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 08:49:30 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/knyIFiR.png)

1950 ...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 08:58:57 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/FJlFXWF.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 09:20:18 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/KXyb8QL.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 01:23:31 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Yugeejv.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 02:43:11 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/fRXnho9.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 19, 2023, 02:56:51 PM
Nebraska, ahead of schedule
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 03:34:38 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/NfEvJuG.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2023, 06:55:05 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ST8KxK9.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2023, 08:14:31 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/kyvIDym.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2023, 08:47:07 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/6MzymDm.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2023, 09:09:52 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/d27ZGsE.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2023, 10:44:52 AM
In 1909, Ty Cobb led the majors with 9 home runs.  Not one of them left the park.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 20, 2023, 01:24:42 PM
dead ball era and big parks
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 20, 2023, 01:24:58 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First Pasteurization Test Conducted (1862)
Pasteurization is the process of heating beverages or food, such as milk, beer, or cheese, to a specific temperature for a specific period of time in order to kill microorganisms that could cause disease, spoilage, or undesired fermentation. The process was named after its creator, French chemist and microbiologist Louis Pasteur, who conducted the first pasteurization test with fellow French scientist Claude Bernard in 1862.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2023, 08:24:02 AM
Schwerer Gustav[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Schwerer_Gustav&action=edit&section=3)]
In February 1942, Heavy Artillery Unit (E) 672 reorganised and went on the march, and Schwerer Gustav began its long ride to Crimea (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea). The train carrying the gun was of 25 cars, a total length of 1.5 kilometres (0.9 mi). The gun reached the Perekop Isthmus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isthmus_of_Perekop) in early March 1942, where it was held until early April. The Germans built a special railway spur line (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spur_line) to the Simferopol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simferopol)-Sevastopol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevastopol) railway 16 kilometres (9.9 mi) north of the target. At the end of the spur, they built four semi-circular tracks especially for the Gustav to traverse. Outer tracks were required for the cranes that assembled Gustav.
The siege of Sevastopol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Sevastopol_(1941–1942)) was the gun's first combat test. 4,000 men and five weeks were needed to get the gun into firing position; 500 men were needed to fire it.[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Gustav#cite_note-ley196112-8) Installation began in early May, and by 5 June the gun was ready to fire.[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Gustav#cite_note-9) The following targets were engaged:
By the end of the siege on 4 July the city of Sevastopol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevastopol) lay in ruins, and 30,000 tons of artillery ammunition had been fired. Gustav had fired 47 rounds and worn out its original barrel, which had already fired around 250 rounds during testing and development. The gun was fitted with the spare barrel and the original was sent back to Krupp's factory in Essen for relining.[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Gustav#cite_note-11)
The gun was then dismantled and moved to the northern part of the eastern front, where an attack was planned on Leningrad (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Petersburg). The gun was placed 30 km (18.6 mi) from the city near the railway station of Taytsy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taytsy). The gun was fully operational when the attack was cancelled. The gun then spent the winter of 1942/43 near Leningrad.[12] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Gustav#cite_note-12)


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2023, 08:25:33 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/z7Vb3nQ.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 21, 2023, 09:34:16 AM
In 1919, the first major aviation disaster in the United States occurred in Chicago. The Wingfoot Express blimp crashed into the Illinois Trust and Savings Bank, taking the lives of 13 people and injuring 27 more.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 21, 2023, 10:12:23 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Battle of Mutina (43 BCE)
The Battle of Mutina was fought in 43 BCE between Marc Antony and the combined forces of Gaius Vibius Pansa Caetronianus and Aulus Hirtius, who were providing aid to one of Julius Caesar's assassins, Decimus Junius Brutus Albinus. When negotiations between the Roman Senate and Antony broke off a year after Caesar's murder, Antony gathered his legions and marched against Decimus Brutus. Though Hirtius died in the battle, Antony was defeated.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 21, 2023, 10:52:51 AM
Schwerer Gustav[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Schwerer_Gustav&action=edit&section=3)]
In February 1942, Heavy Artillery Unit (E) 672 reorganised and went on the march, and Schwerer Gustav began its long ride to Crimea (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea). The train carrying the gun was of 25 cars, a total length of 1.5 kilometres (0.9 mi). The gun reached the Perekop Isthmus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isthmus_of_Perekop) in early March 1942, where it was held until early April. The Germans built a special railway spur line (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spur_line) to the Simferopol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simferopol)-Sevastopol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevastopol) railway 16 kilometres (9.9 mi) north of the target. At the end of the spur, they built four semi-circular tracks especially for the Gustav to traverse. Outer tracks were required for the cranes that assembled Gustav.
The siege of Sevastopol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Sevastopol_(1941–1942)) was the gun's first combat test. 4,000 men and five weeks were needed to get the gun into firing position; 500 men were needed to fire it.[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Gustav#cite_note-ley196112-8) Installation began in early May, and by 5 June the gun was ready to fire.[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Gustav#cite_note-9) The following targets were engaged:
  • 5 June

    • Coastal guns (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastal_artillery) at a range of 25,000 m. Eight shells fired.
    • Fort Stalin. Six shells fired.
  • 6 June

    • Fort Molotov. Seven shells fired.
    • "White Cliff" also known as "Ammunition Mountain": an undersea ammunition magazine in Severnaya ("Northern") Bay. The magazine was sited 30 metres under the sea with at least 10 metres of concrete protection. After nine shells were fired, the magazine was ruined and one of the boats in the bay sunk.[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Gustav#cite_note-10)
  • 7 June

    • Firing in support of an infantry attack on Südwestspitze, an outlying fortification. Seven shells fired.
  • 11 June

    • Fort Siberia knocked out of action. Five shells fired.
  • 17 June

    • Maxim Gorky Fortresses (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxim_Gorky_Fortresses) bombarded. Five shells fired.
By the end of the siege on 4 July the city of Sevastopol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevastopol) lay in ruins, and 30,000 tons of artillery ammunition had been fired. Gustav had fired 47 rounds and worn out its original barrel, which had already fired around 250 rounds during testing and development. The gun was fitted with the spare barrel and the original was sent back to Krupp's factory in Essen for relining.[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Gustav#cite_note-11)
The gun was then dismantled and moved to the northern part of the eastern front, where an attack was planned on Leningrad (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Petersburg). The gun was placed 30 km (18.6 mi) from the city near the railway station of Taytsy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taytsy). The gun was fully operational when the attack was cancelled. The gun then spent the winter of 1942/43 near Leningrad.[12] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Gustav#cite_note-12)
This post briefly mentions Krupp so I'll put in a recommendation here, The Arms of Krupp by William Manchester is an interesting account of the Krupp family and their massive armaments enterprise from the 16th Century through WWII and beyond.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2023, 11:42:26 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/WZsTAUX.png)
The Ksar Draa in Timimoun, Algeria, is an ancient ruin that stands out in the middle of an ocean of dunes, and it's history has been lost over the centuries. The only news related to it is that for a certain period of time it was occupied by the Jews of the Timimoun region

Exploration Mysteries: Ksar Draa » Explorersweb (https://explorersweb.com/exploration-mysteries-ksar-draa/)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2023, 01:54:49 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/aMeWIRz.png)

Richat Structure - Wikipedia

 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richat_Structure)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 22, 2023, 08:42:57 AM
The youngest soldier in the Civil War was a 9-year-old boy from Mississippi. The oldest was an 80-year-old from Iowa. More than 10,000 soldiers serving in the Union Army were under 18 years old.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 22, 2023, 08:56:49 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Oklahoma Land Rush (1889)
On April 22, 1889, some 50,000 people lined up to grab a piece of the 2 million acres (8,000 sq km) being made available by the US government in the first land run into the Unassigned Lands, later known as the state of Oklahoma. Each settler could claim a lot of up to 160 acres (0.65 sq km). A number of participants illegally entered and hid in the area before the run officially began at noon in order to quickly claim the choicest homesteads.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 23, 2023, 08:51:45 AM
Argentina was the first country to use fingerprinting in order to determine if a person was guilty of a crime. The first known example of fingerprinting occurred in June, 1892, when police used a bloody fingerprint left on a door to match Francisca Rojas to the killing of her two children.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2023, 08:56:14 AM
Do other animals have fingerprints? And what purpose do they serve? | New Scientist (https://www.newscientist.com/lastword/mg24933253-300-do-other-animals-have-fingerprints-and-what-purpose-do-they-serve/#:~:text=In an example of convergent,fingerprint has a unique pattern.)

Unsurprisingly, our closest relatives, the great apes, also have fingerprints.

Perhaps more surprisingly, so does the koala. In an example of convergent evolution, koalas have fingerprints that are virtually indistinguishable from ours, even though our last common ancestor lived more than 100 million years ago. Like human prints, each individual koala’s fingerprint has a unique pattern.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 23, 2023, 09:00:25 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Oldest Free Public School Opened in the US (1635)
The Boston Latin School in Massachusetts, originally a school for boys that had just a handful of students, is now a coeducational institution serving more than 2,000 youngsters. It has the distinction of being the oldest public school in the US and claims many influential Bostonians as alumni, including four Harvard University presidents, four Massachusetts governors, and five signers of the Declaration of Independence.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 24, 2023, 08:13:56 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/NYAoFn2.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 24, 2023, 08:28:36 AM
Opened in 1900, the Paris Metro is one of Europe's oldest subway systems. It serves over 5 million travelers a day and is the second busiest metro system in Europe, after the Moscow Metro.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 24, 2023, 08:30:18 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Armenian Genocide Begins (1915)
Known by Armenians as the Great Calamity, the Armenian Genocide refers to the deliberate and systematic destruction of the Ottoman Empire's Armenian population during and after World War I. Characterized by the use of massacres and forced marches designed to lead to the death of deportees, the genocide is estimated to have claimed up to 1 million Armenian lives. The onset of the genocide is generally accepted to be April 24, 1915,
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 24, 2023, 09:28:01 AM
CD see if you & the misses can get a much coveted lodging at the enchanting Skagit River Motel. Vacancies won't last so act now
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: ELA on April 24, 2023, 11:30:24 AM
Opened in 1900, the Paris Metro is one of Europe's oldest subway systems. It serves over 5 million travelers a day and is the second busiest metro system in Europe, after the Moscow Metro.
And an absolute dump
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 24, 2023, 11:45:01 AM
And an absolute dump
When we were there, the only time we needed to take the Metro was the line that leaves the subway and goes out to Versailles. 

I hadn't had coffee yet, and my wife was aghast at the fact that I ordered myself a coffee from the dirty vending machine in the dingy Paris Metro station lol. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 25, 2023, 08:53:19 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Spanish-American War Begins (1898)
Demands by Cuban patriots for independence from Spanish rule made US intervention in Cuba a paramount issue in the relations between the US and Spain from the 1870s to 1898, when the Spanish-American War began. The conflict ended after just 109 days with the Treaty of Paris, which gave the US ownership of Puerto Rico, the Philippines, and Guam, all formerly Spanish colonies. One factor that increased American public support for such a war was the practice of "yellow journalism,"
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 09:02:35 AM
I've used the Paris Metro a few times, I wouldn't call it a dump, I would say it was elegant either.  It's functional.

One cheap way to tour Paris is to buy a bus ticket at a "Tabac" and just ride busses around for a day.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2023, 11:23:34 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/HGLIHuW.png)

Einstein called this his greatest mistake, and new findings suggest Einstein may have been somewhat correct anyway.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2023, 07:59:00 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/F6H7o7j.png)

1883 Montana, I would not want to be on this bridge.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2023, 08:02:36 AM
Just A Car Guy: the Marent Gulch Bridge, at one time was the tallest wooden railroad bridge in the world, 226 feet tall and 866 feet long. (http://justacarguy.blogspot.com/2020/11/the-marent-gulch-bridge-at-one-time-was.html)

The Marent Gulch Trestle is a railroad bridge (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisenbahnbrücke) over the Marent (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Englische_Sprache) Gulch Valley in Missoula County, Montana (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montana), United States (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vereinigte_Staaten), northwest of Missoula (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missoula) on U.S. Route 93 (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Highway_93) between (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missoula_County)Evaro (https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Evaro_(Montana)&action=edit&redlink=1) and Wye (https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wye_(Montana)&action=edit&redlink=1). Originally made of wood, the Trestle Bridge (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trestle-Brücke) was provisionally erected during the construction of the Northern Pacific Railway (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Pacific_Railway) until 1883 and was later replaced by a wrought iron (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schmiedeeisen) structure without interruption of operations until 1885. It is now operated by the Montana Rail Link (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montana_Rail_Link).

(https://i.imgur.com/ysLt1V7.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 26, 2023, 08:48:43 AM
[img width=311.992 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/F6H7o7j.png[/img]

1883 Montana, I would not want to be on this bridge.
Is that you, circled on the horse??
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 26, 2023, 08:49:42 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Nazi Gestapo Is Established (1933)
Taking its name from the contraction of Geheime Staatspolizei—German for "Secret State Police"—the Gestapo was the secret police force of Nazi Germany. Created in 1933 by Hermann Goring, the Gestapo operated without civil restraints or judicial oversight, brutally suppressing partisan activities in occupied territories and arresting thousands of Jews, leftists, and other Nazi "enemies," many of whom were sent to concentration camps.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2023, 12:35:57 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/XdMjDT1.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2023, 05:06:23 PM
The Andromeda galaxy is 6 times bigger in the sky than the full Moon: it's just too dim to see with the naked eye. This composite created by Tom Buckley-Houston shows what it would look like at night if it was just brighter

(https://i.imgur.com/TuG4KHX.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Temp430 on April 27, 2023, 07:32:55 AM
Didn't know that.   Andromeda will collide with our galaxy in 4.5 billion years.  Just enough time to get your affairs in order.   
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 27, 2023, 08:12:58 AM
Hezârfen Ahmet Çelebi was the first man to fly a significant distance, using artificial wings to fly across the Bosporus Straits in the 17th century, thus making the world’s first intercontinental flight 270 years before the Wright Brothers.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 27, 2023, 08:27:42 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Steamboat Sultana Sinks (1865)
The steamboat Sultana was a Mississippi River paddle-wheeler destroyed when one of its boilers exploded near Memphis, Tennessee. The greatest maritime disaster in US history, an estimated 1,800 of its 2,400 passengers, many of whom were Union soldiers who had just been released from Confederate prison camps, were killed when it sank. Bodies of the victims continued to be found downriver for months, yet the disaster received somewhat diminished attention
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 27, 2023, 11:13:40 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Steamboat Sultana Sinks (1865)
The steamboat Sultana was a Mississippi River paddle-wheeler destroyed when one of its boilers exploded near Memphis, Tennessee. The greatest maritime disaster in US history, an estimated 1,800 of its 2,400 passengers, many of whom were Union soldiers who had just been released from Confederate prison camps, were killed when it sank. Bodies of the victims continued to be found downriver for months, yet the disaster received somewhat diminished attention
This was a very sad catastrophe. As you mentioned, many of the victims were Union Soldiers who had spent years in deadly Confederate POW Camps. They were finally on their way home.

Imagine being a parent:
Your son has been MIA for months or even years and you FINALLY get a letter from him in early 1865 letting you know that they are alive, safe, and on their way home. Then you get a letter from the War Department stating that the Secretary of the War Department regrets to inform you that your son perished in the sinking of the Sultana on the Mississippi River near Memphis.

Sultana had a legal capacity of 376 but left Vicksburg with a total of 2,130 aboard. They were so heavily overloaded because the Union was paying $2.75 per soldier and $8 per officer for transit North. Sultana's Captain paid a kickback to the Union Officer at Vicksburg for the lucrative business.

Most of the victims were from Ohio, Indiana, and Michigan and for decades after the disaster they met annually on the anniversary in Toledo. The last Northern survivor war Private John Barr of the 15th MVI who died at 93 in 1938.

The wreck was discovered in 1982. It is beneath a soybean field on the West (Arkansas) side of the river about four miles from Memphis. The wreck is miles from the current river channel due to changes in river course over the intervening years.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 27, 2023, 11:15:28 AM
News of the Sultana disaster was overshadowed by news of the killing of John Wilkes Booth the day before. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2023, 08:39:52 AM
Grumman TBF/TBM Avenger. This ugly torpedo bomber first entered service with the US Navy in 1942. Not all effective military aircraft look great. The Avenger was the heaviest single-engine aircraft of World War Two – a dumpy, carrier-based torpedo bomber that was said to handle “like a truck” and gained the affectionate but decidedly unglamorous nickname “Turkey” amongst its crews

(https://i.imgur.com/VhEtQ7l.png)

The TBMs were built by General Motors, hence the "M".  A bit of an unsung hero in my view, could do it all, nearly.  The Dauntless got most of the accolades.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2023, 11:24:53 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/E3ZYpEe.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on April 28, 2023, 11:44:53 AM
Grumman TBF/TBM Avenger. This ugly torpedo bomber first entered service with the US Navy in 1942. Not all effective military aircraft look great. The Avenger was the heaviest single-engine aircraft of World War Two – a dumpy, carrier-based torpedo bomber that was said to handle “like a truck” and gained the affectionate but decidedly unglamorous nickname “Turkey” amongst its crews

(https://i.imgur.com/VhEtQ7l.png)

The TBMs were built by General Motors, hence the "M".  A bit of an unsung hero in my view, could do it all, nearly.  The Dauntless got most of the accolades.

I don't think it looks that bad, assuming the missing chunk of wing was not part of the intentional design...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on April 28, 2023, 12:07:22 PM
I bet it pulled to the right
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2023, 01:54:31 PM
It might pull left because of less drag on that side, I can't tell if the rudder is off neutral.  Those were pretty tough planes with good engines, a Double Wasp I think.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on April 28, 2023, 02:18:55 PM
It might pull left because of less drag on that side, I can't tell if the rudder is off neutral.  Those were pretty tough planes with good engines, a Double Wasp I think.


hard to have more drag with half your wing gone 

glad Im not the one finding it out
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2023, 02:33:21 PM
If there is less drag off his left wing it would pull left.

The basic function of a wing is to convert drag into lift.

(On the other hand, the structure on the left wing could generate more drag from vortices etc.)

I was checking on how much it would cost for me to get current flying again, it wouldn't be cheap at all.  I'd need the basic gear, a headset, flight bag, maps (?), a medical exam ($120 or so), and then probably ten hours of dual ($150 each?).
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 28, 2023, 03:27:39 PM
good engines, a Double Wasp I think.
Twin Cyclone.
The two engines are similar in that both are two row radial engines.

Wright built the Twin Cyclone. It was a 14 cylinder two tow radial of 42.7L displacement that produced about 1,750 HP although some late-war variants approached 2,000 HP.

In addition to the Avenger, it was also used in the Helldiver and B25 among other uses.

Pratt and Whitney built the Double Wasp. It was an 18 cylinder two row radial of 46L displacement that produced 2,100 HP.

The Double Wasp was used in the P47 Thunderbolt, the F6F Hellcat, the F4U Corsair, the B26, and many other machines.

Being much older, the B17 used a Wright Cyclone which was a single row nine cylinder radial of a "mere" 30L displacement that produced a "mere" 1,000 HP.

The B29 used a Wright 18 cylinder two row radial known as the Wright Duplex Cyclone. This one had a displacement of 55L and produced 2,200 HP initially, increasing to 3,700 HP in later models.

One of the advantages of the radial engines was that they were usually air cooled which tended to improve survivability because they couldn’t be taken down by a hit to the radiator. The USN and USAAF, as you can see from the above lists, obviously valued this. OTOH, the liquid cooled V engines preferred by the British and also used on a decent number of American aircraft tended to be more efficient (in part because they had a vastly smaller leading edge and therefore less drag) and longer lasting because liquid cooled engines tend to have vastly better heat distribution.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2023, 03:29:46 PM
It all started with the Gnome Rhone (more or less) ...

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 28, 2023, 04:16:35 PM
Hezârfen Ahmet Çelebi was the first man to fly a significant distance, using artificial wings to fly across the Bosporus Straits in the 17th century, thus making the world’s first intercontinental flight 270 years before the Wright Brothers.
I'm calling BS,how far are these straits? And of course they had to be artificial wings. If they stated glider then that would be feasible
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2023, 04:32:56 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezârfen_Ahmed_Çelebi
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 28, 2023, 04:54:24 PM
I'm with Nubbz on this one. I'm not saying he didn't do what is claimed, but apparently this comes from the writings of ONE person. 

He was then exiled to Algeria, lived 8-10 more years, and there is no additional information about continued experiments with flight, advances, or even repeating similar feats. 

Nor is there any evidence of this spurring any further experiments from anyone else based on his proof of concept. Clearly neither Turkey nor Algeria became hotbeds of unpowered flight that I'm aware of. 


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 28, 2023, 05:51:17 PM
Haters
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: ELA on April 28, 2023, 11:28:35 PM
Haters
Science deniers
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 29, 2023, 05:48:00 AM
The Bosporus is 19 miles (30 km) long and has a maximum width of 2.3 miles (3.7 km) at the northern entrance and a minimum width of 2,450 feet (750 metres) between the Ottoman fortifications of Rumelihisarı and Anadoluhisarı. Its depth varies from 120 to 408 feet (36.5 to 124 metres) in midstream. In its centre a rapid current flows from the Black Sea to the Sea of Marmara, but a countercurrent below the surface carries water of greater salinity from the Sea of Marmara to the Black Sea. The Bosporus is heavily fished, since the channel is a seasonal migration route for fish to and from the Black Sea. Both shores are well wooded and are dotted with villages, resorts, and fine residences and villas.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 29, 2023, 09:14:03 AM
First delivery of Coca-Cola to Knoxville, 1919.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/344224814_927320938388781_2697194592319518562_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=988mQZP2AxoAX_qKzb9&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfANKtgsbjksxc5_QiXiIR8hx6kYvRqDE5TSqo0ableerQ&oe=64529168)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 29, 2023, 11:29:12 AM
1885 – Florida’s first four-year institution of higher learning was incorporated in central Florida on this date. Named after prominent Chicago businessman and early benefactor, Alonzo Rollins, Rollins College was established by New England Congregationalists who wanted to bring their style of liberal education to what was then the wild Florida frontier. Classes officially began on November 4, 1885. The campus now covers eighty acres within the historic city of Winter Park, with an approximate student population of 4,000 undergraduates and graduates.

(Coincidentally, UGA was chartered in 1785.)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 30, 2023, 08:44:58 AM
Founded in 1752 as an animal menagerie by Emperor Franz Stephan, Vienna’s Schönbrunn Tiergarten is the oldest zoo in the world.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 30, 2023, 09:04:39 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Hitler Commits Suicide (1945)
In the final days of World War II, as the Red Army of the Soviet Union was closing in on his underground bunker in Berlin, Nazi leader Adolf Hitler committed suicide by shooting himself while simultaneously biting into a cyanide capsule. Hitler's body and that of Eva Braun—his mistress whom he had wed the day before—were then placed in a bomb crater, doused with gasoline, and set on fire by German officials.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 30, 2023, 02:26:20 PM
Judge Roy Bean (c. 1825 - March 16, 1903) was an American saloonkeeper and justice of the peace in Vale Verde County, Texas, in the late 19th century. He gained notoriety for his unusual rulings and questionable legal authority. He called himself the "The Only Law West of the Pecos" and held court in his saloon, encouraging attendees to purchase liquor while he dispensed justice. Fictional Western films called him "The Hanging Judge," although he was only known to have sentenced two men to hang, one of which escaped.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/343619617_937725227545383_6532766786892504467_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Pg9T6OIE0EgAX-hv-0g&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfD9Tr4m3X6LaFyoGk4ieAkjpJJeX_XoN3yjBFYF13cUTQ&oe=64540E67)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 02, 2023, 01:58:35 PM
Arthur Fiedler, Boston Pops with Roy Clark 1976 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqH_GYr3e_c)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 09:01:11 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/9Y3AIoN.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 03, 2023, 11:33:17 AM
I'd like to add and discuss some "counter-narrative" history. I hope at least some posters find that interesting. 

I'll start with two issues related to the Battle of Gettysburg:


WRT #1:
The conventional narrative is that the Union line was more-or-less impenetrable and Lee's frontal assault on it was a catastrophically bad decision. Even before the attack, most of Lee's subordinates felt this way. Ironically, General Pickett who will forever be known for the charge that bears his name was one of those who thought the idea was near madness. 

Obviously with 20/20 hindsight Pickett and Lee's other subordinates were correct, the attack WAS a bad idea. I'll even add that, on a tactical level, it was a fairly obviously bad idea before it was launched. 

That said, I actually think that Lee made the right decision for strategic rather than tactical reasons. The macro-strategic situation for the Confederacy was already bad in the summer of 1863 and it was deteriorating rapidly:
Charging at the Union fishook at Gettysburg was bad tactically but it made strategic sense because it was the best chance the Confederates could realistically hope for. If they had waited and tried again in the summer of 1864, they would have been outnumbered and outgunned more severely than they were on July 3, 1863.

WRT #2:
Shortly after the battle Lincoln reportedly said of Meade that he "had the Confederate Army in the palm of his hand and let them slip away" or words to the effect. 

This all stems from the geography of the battle. The Confederate (Southern) line was actually North of the Union (Northern) line. In theory then, once the Union won the battle, they should have been able to prevent the Confederates from escaping back to their supplies. 

The conventional narrative is that Meade missed a golden opportunity that should have been obvious to him. Had he acted to prevent their escape, the Confederates could have been trapped in hostile territory in Pennsylvania with dwindling supplies of food and ammunition and the entire Army of Northern Virginia could have been killed or captured. 

For many years I believed this, but I wanted to know more. Particularly, I couldn't understand how a military man trained in such things could possibly have overlooked the opportunity that seemed so obvious to me and had seemed so to Lincoln as well. 

A few years ago I read Retreat from Gettysburg, Lee, Logistics, and the Pennsylvania Campaign (https://www.amazon.com/Retreat-Gettysburg-Logistics-Pennsylvania-Campaign/dp/0807872091) because I wanted to find out. The book credits Lee for his handling of the retreat (escape really) and explains Meade's hesitations. 

The short version is that Lee did a masterful job of masking his location, direction, and intentions and that Meade had plenty of his own problems to deal with. 

In retrospect, Lee's Army was critically low on ammunition and Meade probably should have been able to guess that was the case. However, Meade didn't KNOW that. What he KNEW was that his own army was bloodied and low on ammunition and Meade was hesitant to get into a battle without having enough ammunition to actually fight. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 12:52:18 PM
It also rained pretty hard after the battle, and Lee held in place for a day before sneaking out.  That allowed him to send on ambulances and slow moving wagons a day ahead of time.  Meade was new to command and realize a bad error would be disastrous.  He knew Lee would set traps and appear where least expected.  (This is the 160th anniversary of Chancellorsville.)  Imagine Meade had really gone after Lee with a divided wounded army and suddenly Lee turned on him and defeated him in detail.

I think the mistake made by Lee was on Day One not taking the heights, which however would have been dicey as well.  His orders were equivocal.  In my books, Stonewall Jackson is saved by a slave of all people and is present and takes the heights (with considerable casualties).  Meade then falls back to a second very defensible line.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 03, 2023, 01:29:25 PM
It also rained pretty hard after the battle, and Lee held in place for a day before sneaking out.  That allowed him to send on ambulances and slow moving wagons a day ahead of time.  Meade was new to command and realize a bad error would be disastrous.  He knew Lee would set traps and appear where least expected.  (This is the 160th anniversary of Chancellorsville.)  Imagine Meade had really gone after Lee with a divided wounded army and suddenly Lee turned on him and defeated him in detail.
The bolded part, I think, is the best defense of Meade. Gettysburg was a great victory for the Union but would have been a catastrophic defeat if Meade had walked into a trap while pursuing.

I think the mistake made by Lee was on Day One not taking the heights, which however would have been dicey as well.  His orders were equivocal.  In my books, Stonewall Jackson is saved by a slave of all people and is present and takes the heights (with considerable casualties).  Meade then falls back to a second very defensible line.
Interesting concept, how can I get a copy?

It has, of course, long been theorized that if Stonewall Jackson had survived Chancellorsville, he would have more readily realized value of the heights and therefore understood Lee's famous (perhaps infamous) order to take them "if practicable" as meaning something closer to "if possible".
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on May 03, 2023, 01:35:40 PM
Lee charged into a well entrenched position across over a mile of open ground

Of course it was a huge mistake

as several of his generals suggested he should have gone to the right
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 01:41:27 PM
It has, of course, long been theorized that if Stonewall Jackson had survived Chancellorsville, he would have more readily realized value of the heights and therefore understood Lee's famous (perhaps infamous) order to take them "if practicable" as meaning something closer to "if possible".
It's available on Amazon, or I will send you the books, there are four of them in the series. Book 2 is called "Rebel at War", I see Amazon has it on sale for $3.54 which is cheaper than I could mail it.

Book  One is historical fiction and then it turns into alternative fiction for 2-4.  Stonewall took a slave who had very good night vision on his reconnaisance when he was shot, and the slave heard the rifles cock and pulled Stonewall out of his saddle, and was shot himself.  How's that for irony?

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 03, 2023, 01:42:27 PM
I got interested in what would happen if the South "won" the war, and my notions were they really would have lost relatively and had numerous problems.  So did the North, the country split up again.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 04, 2023, 09:27:33 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Haymarket Riot (1886)
This violent confrontation between Chicago police and labor protesters, which dramatized the labor movement's struggle for recognition, began when a bomb was thrown into the police ranks at a gathering of radical unionists protesting police brutality against strikers. With seven officers dead and 60 wounded, the police opened fire on the crowd. Seven anarchist leaders were later sentenced to death.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 05, 2023, 09:11:47 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Kublai Khan Becomes Ruler of the Mongol Empire (1260)
The grandson of Genghis Khan, Kublai Khan was a Mongol emperor who founded China's Yuan Dynasty and became the first Yuan emperor in 1271. In 1279, he completed his grandfather's conquest of China by overthrowing the Sung dynasty. He promoted economic prosperity by rebuilding the Grand Canal, repairing public granaries, extending highways, and encouraging foreign commerce. His magnificent capital at Cambuluc—now Beijing—was visited by several Europeans
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 05, 2023, 04:17:54 PM
Lee charged into a well entrenched position across over a mile of open ground

Of course it was a huge mistake
Tactically, you are inarguably correct. As stated above, strategically there is a credible basis for the decision. 
as several of his generals suggested he should have gone to the right
Another alternative would have been to simply declare victory and go home. Even after Pickett's Charge the casualty figures for the Union and Confederate armies at Gettysburg are roughly equal. Since the attacking and unsuccessful Confederates MUST have had more losses than the defending and successful Union on the battle's final day, if Lee had simply chosen to leave, the Union would have had more casualties. That and the Confederate acquisition of supplies would have given credibility to the assertion of victory.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 05, 2023, 04:27:31 PM
I got interested in what would happen if the South "won" the war, and my notions were they really would have lost relatively and had numerous problems.  So did the North, the country split up again.
The Spanish-American War almost certainly wouldn't have occurred since the North was far from Spanish colonies and the South didn't have the industrial base nor the Naval tradition and infrastructure. 
Where it gets interesting, I think is WWI. Do both stay neutral? Do both join? Do they join on the same or opposite sides?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on May 05, 2023, 04:31:54 PM
Tactically, you are inarguably correct. As stated above, strategically there is a credible basis for the decision.
I disagree with this statement

Just look at what happened to Burnsides 6 divisions at Fredericksburg when they charged over open ground to a well fortified Confederate position

The result was mass slaughter

Lee should have learned from this cause his generals sure did
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on May 05, 2023, 04:40:01 PM
. Another alternative would have been to simply declare victory and go home. Even after Pickett's Charge the casualty figures for the Union and Confederate armies at Gettysburg are roughly equal. Since the attacking and unsuccessful Confederates MUST have had more losses than the defending and successful Union on the battle's final day, if Lee had simply chosen to leave, the Union would have had more casualties. That and the Confederate acquisition of supplies would have given credibility to the assertion of victory.
By all accounts Ive read that simply was not in the character of Lee

He smelled victory and was convinced the Union center would fold if pressed

again Lee could have achieved a much better outcome by outflanking the Union to the right

but we will never really know
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 05, 2023, 07:45:08 PM
History Nebraska

May 5, 1955, this building survived an atomic bomb test blast 6,800 feet away from ground zero in Yucca Flats, Nevada.
Manufactured by the Behlen plant in Columbus, Nebraska, the metal shed withstood pressure loads of around 600 Ibs/sq foot.




(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/343058874_2823465234450964_5219988300738512935_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=dWKu6RG3fPkAX9qApZB&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBGioMc0OAFyfMx5Yn4eg47B41eruEP7h5R9az0lDLiOA&oe=645A4890)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 06, 2023, 11:00:33 AM
On May 6, 1882, President Chester Arthur signed a law that reshaped America. More than a century later, Congress formally apologized for it.

The Chinese Exclusion Act blocked Chinese workers from coming legally to the country, and blocked Chinese immigrants who were already living here from becoming US citizens. The Library of Congress calls it the “first significant restriction on free immigration in U.S. history.”

The law and other related measures were repealed in 1943. But its legacy is still being felt decades later.

Generations of families were separated and suffered under the restrictions, says Ted Gong, executive director of the 1882 Foundation, which aims to spread awareness of the act’s history and continuing significance.

“The Chinese Exclusion Act shaped the entire Chinese American society, even up into today,” Gong says.

And experts have argued the law’s impact lasted long beyond its time on the books.

“The justification for exclusion was that the Chinese were an ‘unassimilable’ race and therefore could never become Americans. … Its rationale – that Asians pose a racial danger to American society – has endured in our politics and culture to this day,” historian Mae Ngai said in a 2021 piece for The Atlantic.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/on-this-day-141-years-ago-a-new-law-began-reshaping-america-more-than-a-century-later-congress-apologized-for-it/ar-AA1aOG1y (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/on-this-day-141-years-ago-a-new-law-began-reshaping-america-more-than-a-century-later-congress-apologized-for-it/ar-AA1aOG1y)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 07, 2023, 09:34:17 AM
Today in history: May 7

In 1915, a German U-boat torpedoed and sank the British liner RMS Lusitania off the southern coast of Ireland, killing 1,198 people, including 128 Americans, out of the nearly 2,000 on board.

In 1939, Germany and Italy announced a military and political alliance known as the Rome-Berlin Axis.

In 1945, Germany signed an unconditional surrender at Allied headquarters in Rheims (rams), France, ending its role in World War II.

In 1954, the 55-day Battle of Dien Bien Phu in Vietnam ended with Vietnamese insurgents overrunning French forces.

In 1975, President Gerald R. Ford formally declared an end to the “Vietnam era.” In Ho Chi Minh City — formerly Saigon — the Viet Cong celebrated its takeover.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 08, 2023, 11:42:44 AM
I disagree with this statement

Just look at what happened to Burnsides 6 divisions at Fredericksburg when they charged over open ground to a well fortified Confederate position

The result was mass slaughter

Lee should have learned from this cause his generals sure did
I didn't really mean it as opposed to attacking to the right (I'll come back to that).

I was making a larger, strategic point: Attacking as opposed to declaring victory and going home, absolutely made strategic sense due to the factors that I outlined above.

Attacking to the right vs center:
This is a tactical rather than a strategic decision.

Obviously, we benefit from 20/20 hindsight. We KNOW that attacking the Union center will be a failure because we've been reading about Pickett's Charge since we could read.

The attack to the right is preferable in the same way that fans think that switching to the backup QB would have been preferable after a loss. They KNOW that the starter lost so they have no risk in retroactively switching to the backup.

Similarly, we KNOW that Pickett's Charge was a failure so, from our perspective, there is no risk is changing to an attack on the right.

Pickett's Charge didn't work but there is no guarantee that an attack on the right would have worked. Additionally, Lee was facing South so his right was West, away from Meade's supply lines back to the East Coast generally and Baltimore/Washington specifically. Even a successful attack on Lee's right wouldn't necessarily have been catastrophic for Meade.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 08, 2023, 12:08:26 PM
It was simply the same as Burnsides attacks on Marye's Heights at Fredricksburg  7 months earlier only the Rebs decided to play stoopid on Cemetery Ridge
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on May 08, 2023, 12:26:18 PM
It was simply the same as Burnsides attacks on Marye's Heights at Fredricksburg  7 months earlier only the Rebs decided to play stoopid on Cemetery Ridge
I mentioned this in an earlier post

To me the decision should have been simple

Attacking left had not yielded good results for the last 2 days and Fredericksburg demonstrated a frontal attack had little chance of success

The only attacking option that was viable was flanking to the right

As far as the direction a right attack would be

By the time Picketts charge occured the bulk of Lees army was west of Gettysburg which means going right would have been in the general direction of Washington DC

This would have forced the north to move to its left and give up the reinforced ground
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 08, 2023, 12:52:48 PM
That's what Longstreet wanted to do and he was villified later for disagreeing with Marse Robert
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on May 08, 2023, 12:59:45 PM
That's what Longstreet wanted to do and he was villified later for disagreeing with Marse Robert
Yep and Hood also was a big fan of flanking right
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 08, 2023, 01:09:59 PM
More "counter-narrative" history:

Today, May 8, 2023 is the 81st anniversary of the end of the Battle of the Coral Sea.  The next major engagement after Coral Sea in the Pacific War was, of course, the Battle of Midway.  I've been reading about this battle for decades and studying it more closely for several years and nothing about the Japanese plan makes sense to me.  

First some background.  At the beginning of WWII the USN had seven carriers, CV2 Lexington through CV8 Hornet (CV1 had been Langley but Langley was a converted oiler that was further converted to a seaplane tender in order to free up tonnage for CV7 Wasp).  

Status of the US Carriers at the time of the Battle of Midway:

The USN had three carriers available for the Battle of Midway, the three Yorktown class ships, Yorktown (CV5), Enterprise (CV6), and Hornet (CV8).  The Lexington Class Saratoga (CV3) and the Wasp Class Wasp (CV7) were on their way to Pearl Harbor but neither arrived in time to participate.  

The Japanese Navy *THOUGHT* they had either sunk or severely damaged Yorktown at Coral Sea and they had not detected Saratoga's return nor Wasp's transfer so they believed that the USN only had two carriers available, the two Doolittle's Raid carriers, Enterprise and Hornet.  

The Japanese had six fleet carriers at the beginning of WWII.  All six participated in what they referred to as the "Hawaii Operation" and what we today know as the Attack on Pearl Harbor.  They also had some light and escort carriers that were less capable.  They had lost one light carrier at Coral Sea but their six fleet carriers were all still intact and afloat.  However, Shokaku and Zuikaku (Japan's two newest fleet carriers) did not participate in the Battle of Midway.  This is an unbelievable story:
Shokaku was heavily damaged during the Battle of the Coral Sea and was unavailable due to being in Kure for repairs.  Zuikaku was relatively undamaged but had lost most of its airgroup.  Zuikaku was held out of the Midway force because apparently nobody in Japan thought to say "Hey, why don't we take the undamaged planes from Shokaku and put them on the undamaged carrier Zuikaku?"  

Thus, at the Battle of Midway the Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) had four carriers (the six that had attacked Pearl Harbor six months earlier less Shokaku and Zuikaku) and the United States Navy (USN) had three (the three Yorktown Class).  However this overstates the advantage for the IJN because the USN carriers had larger airgroups and the USN also had an unsinkable airstrip on the Island.  Thus, the USN actually had more planes.  

Typically we hear of two possible motivations for the Japanese attack on Midway:
These aren't necessarily complimentary and neither of them make sense.  

Before I address Japan's motivations, let me explain that it was only because of codebreaking that the USN was prepared for the attack on Midway.  The garrison at Midway had been reinforced, repairs to Yorktown were expedited, and all three available carriers were sent to the vicinity ONLY because the USN KNEW the attack was coming.  Otherwise the following would definitely have been true:
Considering that most of the fighting at that point was in the South Pacific, the remaining USN carriers (which would ONLY have been Enterprise and Hornet) would most likely have been in the South Pacific.  

All that being said, if the USN had been unaware of the IJN's plans to attack Midway, the IJN would almost certainly have captured the Atoll.  

Now regarding the alleged Japanese motivations for the attack, first to expand their defensive perimeter:
This make no sense because the IJN simply didn't have the available transport capacity to maintain a garrison on Midway.  The troops and planes stationed on Midway would have needed food, fuel, and ammunition and Midway is 2,500 miles from Tokyo.  Additionally, Midway isn't very close to anything else that the Japanese possessed so it would have been completely unsupported and the supply runs couldn't have been readily combined with resupplying anything else.  

Midway is ~1,300 mi from Hawaii so the USN would have had a field day sinking IJN transports.  They and the garrison would have been attacked at will by USN submarines, aircraft, and surface ships.  The Japanese would have found themselves in an attritional warfare situation that would have been catastrophic to their cause.  

Finally, once the USN got serious about retaking Midway, the IJN couldn't possibly have defended it.  Their closest possession would have been Wake Island which isn't particularly large and is ~1,200 miles away.  That is too far for air support.  

The other traditional motivation given for the Japanese attack was to draw the USN carriers into battle such that they could be destroyed.  One problem with this is that it relies on the USN making a strategically insane decision.  Assuming that the US only had two carriers (Japanese intelligence assessment prior to Midway) and that both of them were in the South Pacific, they couldn't have gotten to Midway until after it fell anyway.  At that point, assuming the two USN carriers charged to Midway, they'd have been facing ridiculous odds of two carriers vs four carriers PLUS the island.  Further, the USN would OBVIOUSLY have known this since the USN garrison at Midway would have KNOWN they were under carrier air attack and relayed that information on to Pearl before they fell.  

In a somewhat analogous situation six months earlier the USN had sent a relief force to Wake Island when it was attacked shortly after Pearl Harbor.  However, when IJN carriers approached Wake the USN recalled the relief force because it simply wasn't worth losing a carrier to defend Wake.  Midway would have been no different.  Beyond that, assuming the two USN carriers HAD been in the South Pacific they probably couldn't have made it to Midway before the IJN carriers ran low on fuel and had to depart anyway.  The Yorktowns had a maximum speed of a little over 30 knots or a little under 40 MPH.  Assuming they were ~2,000 miles away in the South Pacific, they'd have had to travel back to Pearl Harbor then refueled and rearmed, then traveled ~1,300 miles to Midway.  That 3,300 miles of travel would have taken more than three days even assuming that they went full speed the whole way and didn't bother to zig-zag.  Add in time to realize what was happening at Midway before the order was given and time to refuel/rearm at Pearl and you are getting awfully close to the endurance limit of IJN carriers.  

Understand here that the IJN was simply incapable of stationing their carriers off Midway indefinitely.  No Navy in the world was capable of doing that in the early part of WWII.  Late in the war the US developed the capability to station carriers off a hostile shore and maintain them there but in the early part of the war carriers of all navies were capable of raids (Taranto, Pearl Harbor, Marshalls, etc) and of briefly supporting amphibious operations but they were NOT capable of standing off a hostile shore.  Even assuming a successful IJN invasion of Midway, the IJN carriers were going to have to go home sooner rather than later for lack of fuel and munitions.  They couldn't just wait indefinitely for an American counterattack that might or might not develop.  

Finally, everybody on both sides KNEW that the IJN carriers couldn't simply wait at Midway indefinitely.  If the USN had viewed Midway as a critical strategic outpost (they didn't) they would have KNOWN that the IJN carriers would have to leave eventually.  It would have been colossally stupid to send Enterprise and Hornet up there alone while the IJN Carriers were still there.  Instead, Nimitz would have expedited Saratoga (at San Diego) and Wasp (at Norfolk) and waited for the IJN Carriers to depart the area.  Then he could have sent four of his own carriers to retake Midway with his choice of timing.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on May 08, 2023, 01:43:04 PM
If Japan had been successful in taking out our carriers they might have been able to sue for peace.  At least that was their thinking,  They greatly miscalculated just how pissed off the USA was.

Japan just didnt think the USA had the resolve for an extended war and it was wrong

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 08, 2023, 02:43:53 PM
Yep and Hood also was a big fan of flanking right
As I see it:
The question of attacking L, R, or C is a mere tactical question entirely secondary to the larger strategic question of:
I am more interested in the larger, strategic question. My opinion on that issue is that attacking was a strategically sound decision because the Confederate strategic situation was deteriorating relative to the Union strategic situation. 

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 08, 2023, 03:03:46 PM
If Japan had been successful in taking out our carriers they might have been able to sue for peace.  At least that was their thinking,  They greatly miscalculated just how pissed off the USA was.

Japan just didnt think the USA had the resolve for an extended war and it was wrong
Japan's whole strategic calculus was unbelievably unrealistic.

First, since there was never any plausible way for Japan to militarily crush the US, march to DC, and dictate terms in the White House they *KNEW* that they'd have to negotiate the ultimate end to the war.

If you HAVE to negotiate an end to the war then your enemy has to see you as at least a somewhat trustworthy negotiating partner. That can't happen if you start the war with a surprise attack.

Even within that context though, the attack on Midway doesn't seem to offer any serious hope of actually achieving the goal of sinking the USN Carriers. But for the code breaking, the US Carriers wouldn't have been anywhere close to Midway.

Also note that Nimitz' orders were NOT to defend Midway whatever the cost. Midway was absolutely NOT a hill worth dying on for the USN. Nimitz' orders were to take opportunities to inflict more losses than taken and (basically) to GTFO if the whole thing turned ugly.

At the end if the day, time was the USN's greatest ally, Essex class carriers:

Those six were already under construction at the time. Three more would be laid down later in 1942 and another nine would be laid down in 1943. They began to be commissioned in December of 1942 and from that point forward the USN added roughly one new full size carrier every other month.


Japan needed to win and win quickly because no matter what happened if they didn't, the USN would eventually get so large and so powerful that the IJN would be hopeless.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on May 08, 2023, 03:06:58 PM
As I see it:
The question of attacking L, R, or C is a mere tactical question entirely secondary to the larger strategic question of:
  • Attack, or
  • Declare victory and go home.
I am more interested in the larger, strategic question. My opinion on that issue is that attacking was a strategically sound decision because the Confederate strategic situation was deteriorating relative to the Union strategic situation.


Number 2 was never an option in Lee's view IMHO

and why not be strategically sound and smart at the same time
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 09, 2023, 10:52:33 AM
Yep and Hood also was a big fan of flanking right
I agree with what Shelby Foote had stated that the Union still had another whole corp in reserve (forget whose) .But regarding if Jackson lived he would no longer be on friendly soil with the locals giving him detailed maps like his earlier campaigns. At Fredricksberg little mentioned is that the very same Gordon Meade had rolled up Jackson's forces on the opposite side of Marye's Heights. Problem was Burnside kept feeding good troops into the grinder at the heights instead of supporting Meade's break through so the thrust came to a halt as Jackson had time to get troops from the other side. So another "what if" as those units could have continued and rolled up the right flank of the defenders on the heights. The UNION definitely had the numbers if properly dispersed which of course they weren't

  Reading/watching all that I have Gettysburg is a true head scratcher of sorts. Two of the most brilliant brains Lincoln & Lee turned ignorant there for a spell. Lee obviously not learning from Fredricksburg and Lincoln FINALLY getting a decisive victory then slamming the guy responsible  - MEADE. To think that an Army exhausted from 3 full days battle in oppresive summer heat should then pursue the enemy the following day in a driving rain storm was pure buffoonery. Just resupplying and tending to the wounded was overwhelming daunting enough. To complicate matters that steaming pile Dan Sickles that almost single handidly cost the Union a victory and maybe the war. He runs off to Washington and told all his political connections(he served in congress and no soldier) and the press that he lost his leg in his brilliant campaign that Meade most certainly messed up . ALL LIES - amazingly no one ever shot that yapping jackel. Poor Gordon Meade performs damn near flawlessly against Robert E Lee no less and he gets panned for his efforts

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 09, 2023, 11:47:13 AM
I agree with what Shelby Foote had stated that the Union still had another whole corp in reserve (forget whose) .But regarding if Jackson lived he would no longer be on friendly soil with the locals giving him detailed maps like his earlier campaigns. At Fredricksberg little mentioned is that the very same Gordon Meade had rolled up Jackson's forces on the opposite side of Marye's Heights. Problem was Burnside kept feeding good troops into the grinder at the heights instead of supporting Meade's break through so the thrust came to a halt as Jackson had time to get troops from the other side. So another "what if" as those units could have continued and rolled up the right flank of the defenders on the heights. The UNION definitely had the numbers if properly dispersed which of course they weren't

  Reading/watching all that I have Gettysburg is a true head scratcher of sorts. Two of the most brilliant brains Lincoln & Lee turned ignorent there for a spell. Lee obviously not learning from Fredricksburg and Lincoln FINALLY getting a decisive victory then slamming the guy responsible  - MEADE. To think that an Army exhausted from 3 full days battle in oppresive summer heat should then pursue the enemy the following day in a driving rain storm was pure buffoonery. Just resupplying and tending to the wounded was overwhelming daunting enough. To complicate matters that steaming pile Dan Sickles that almost single handidly cost the Union a victory and maybe the war. He runs off to Washington and told all his political connections(he served in congress and no soldier) and the press that he lost his leg in his brilliant campaign that Meade most certainly messed up . ALL LIES - amazingly no one ever shot that yapping jackel. Poor Gordon Meade performs damn near flawlessly against Robert E Lee no less and he gets panned for his efforts
I've mentioned it here before but if you want to know a lot more about Lee's retreat and Meade's pursuit, this is a really good book:
https://www.amazon.com/Retreat-Gettysburg-Logistics-Pennsylvania-Campaign/dp/0807872091
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 09, 2023, 02:15:07 PM
There are some pretty neat computer games replaying various battles, including Gburg, that affords one a somewhat colored view of it all depending.  Some were pretty decent I think and included items like troop exhaustion and logistics.  It mostly helps one learn the geography.

I played a nice Pacific War game by Grisby that if nothing else helped one see where all those islands were.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 07:34:26 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/f2iOdFe.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 07:39:50 AM
Japan's whole strategic calculus was unbelievably unrealistic.
They were between a hard rock and a worst place prewar after we cut their steel and petroleum supplies.  Their generals in China would not have complied with any orders from Tokyo to pull back or "be nice".  They really were facing a very dire situation without gaining oil supplies (SE Asia).  And what lay between them and Indonesia/Borneo?

The PI.  

They figured/hoped that a sharp early serious reverse inflicted on the US would buy time, and perhaps lead to negotiations somehow.  This would probably mean US withdrawal from the PI so Japan could get oil from SE Asia and be "independent".  Yamamoto of course counciled against this, but they were in a bind.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 10, 2023, 07:58:27 AM
[img width=274.381 height=361]https://i.imgur.com/f2iOdFe.jpg[/img]
I haven't seen the North Carolina. I'd like to get to Wilmington at some point.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 08:01:58 AM
I've toured it twice, a while back.  Obviously it's very similar to the South Dakota class, and you would look hard to distinguish it from the Iowa class really.  I didn't get why we had two classes at the same time so similar, I think it related to the naval treaty, but don't remember offhand.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 10, 2023, 08:37:35 AM
I've toured it twice, a while back.  Obviously it's very similar to the South Dakota class, and you would look hard to distinguish it from the Iowa class really.  I didn't get why we had two classes at the same time so similar, I think it related to the naval treaty, but don't remember offhand.
The initial design for the NC was for her main battery of guns to be 14 inch. to conform to the Second London Naval Treaty. However, there was a clause in the treaty that if any member nation refused to sign the treaty, they could increase the size of the guns. So they went with the 16 in /45 caliber Mark 6 guns, which are similar to the 16 in /50 caliber Mark 7 guns. 

Also, you are correct, the NC class was designed and limited due to the Second London Naval Treaty. The Iowa class was designed after the US found a way out of the treaty thus giving the Iowa class a few advantages, mainly speed. The Iowa's were the fastest battleships every built and were able to keep up with the carriers at top speed, something the prior battleships could not do.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 08:56:13 AM
I was speaking of the very similar classes of the North Carolina class (of which two were built) and the South Dakota class.

A number of deficiencies in the preceding North Carolinas were to be fixed in the South Dakotas; these included insufficient underwater protection and turbine engines not of the most recent technology. The North Carolinas also did not have sufficient space to act as fleet flagships (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagship), so the lead ship of the new class was designed with an extra deck on the conning tower (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conning_tower) specifically for this purpose, although the increase in space and weight from this necessitated removal of two twin 5-inch dual-purpose (DP) gun mounts.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Dakota-class_battleship_(1939)#cite_note-FOOTNOTEFriedman281–82-4)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 10:50:01 AM
Sumerians Looked to the Heavens as They Invented the System of Time… And We Still Use it Today. One might find it curious that we divide the hours into 60 minutes and the days into 24 hours - why not a multiple of 10 or 12? Put quite simply, the answer is because the inventors of time did not operate on a decimal (base-10) or duodecimal (base-12) system but a sexagesimal (base-60) system. For the ancient Sumerian innovators who first divided the movements of the heavens into countable intervals, 60 was the perfect number. The number 60 can be divided by 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 12, 15, 20, and 30 equal parts. Moreover, ancient astronomers believed there were 360 days in a year, a number which 60 fits neatly into six times. The Sumerian Empire did not last. However, for more than 5,000 years the world has remained committed to their delineation of time.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 10, 2023, 11:49:48 AM
I've toured it twice, a while back.  Obviously it's very similar to the South Dakota class, and you would look hard to distinguish it from the Iowa class really.  I didn't get why we had two classes at the same time so similar, I think it related to the naval treaty, but don't remember offhand.
It did. In accordance with the Treaty System based on the Washington (1922), London (1930), and Second London (1936) Naval Treaties there was a prolonged global pause in new Battleship and Battlecruiser construction.

Here are the final pre-pause Battleships/Battlecruisers for the US, Britain, and Japan:
United States:
The last pre-treaty Battleships of the USN were the Colorado Class ships. Four were planned and all four were launched before the treaty but one had to be scrapped to comply. The USN also had to convert two Lexington Class Battlecruisers then under construction into what became the Lexington Class Carriers Lexington and Saratoga. The Colorados had eight 16" guns, weighed ~32k tons, and had a top speed of 21kn. The Colorados were built 1917-1923.




Britain:
The last pre-treaty Battlecruiser of the RN was the Hood. Hood was originally to be one of four Admiral Class Battlecruisers but the other three were canceled due to lessons learned at Jutland and their replacements were never constructed due to the treaties. Hood had eight 15" guns, weighed ~45k tons, and had a top speed of 32kn. Hood was built 1916-1920.

The "Nelrods", Nelson and Rodney of the Nelson Class were the last pre-treaty Battleships of the RN. They had nine 16" guns (in an unusual all-forward layout), weighed 33k tons, and had a top speed of 23kn. The Nelrods were built 1922-1927.

Japan:
The last pre-treaty Battlecruisers of the IJN were the four ships of the Kongo Class. They had eight 14" guns, weighed ~27k tons, and had a top speed of 27.5kn. They were built 1911-1915.

The last pre-treaty Battleships of the IJN were the two ships of the Nagato Class. They had eight 16.1" guns, weighed ~33k tons, and had a top speed of 26.5kn. They were built 1911-1915.

Due to the treaties, no new Battleships or Battlecruisers were completed until the late 1930's in the run up to WWII. Hood was the largest warship in the world for 20 years.

After the pause the US built ten modern Battleships:
Britain built six:
Japan built two:

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 11:53:45 AM
I didn't recall that the two additional Iowas were nearly completed.  I think the Kentucky was laid down and construction had been halted maybe halfway, and the sixth might have been laid down and never really started beyond that.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on May 10, 2023, 12:10:54 PM
I didn't recall that the two additional Iowas were nearly completed.  I think the Kentucky was laid down and construction had been halted maybe halfway, and the sixth might have been laid down and never really started beyond that.


I think you are correct and that the sixth was never started. However, the bow of the Kentucky was affixed to the Wisconsin after the Wisconsin had a ship to ship collision during sea trials, that severely damaged her bow. They brought it back into the Newport News ship yards, removed the newly completed bow from the Kentucky and replaced the damaged bow of the Wisconsin.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 10, 2023, 12:27:37 PM
I think you are correct and that the sixth was never started. However, the bow of the Kentucky was affixed to the Wisconsin after the Wisconsin had a ship to ship collision during sea trials, that severely damaged her bow. They brought it back into the Newport News ship yards, removed the newly completed bow from the Kentucky and replaced the damaged bow of the Wisconsin.
They were both laid down in 1942 and would have been completed during the war but both were deprioritzed during the war especially after Midway due to needs for aircraft carriers, anti-submarine craft, and landing ships being more pressing.

Illinois was canceled at the time of the Japanese surrender and never launched but it was maintained for parts until the late 1950's.

Kentucky was further along and work on her continued, albeit at a glacially slow pace while various conversion proposals were contemplated until finally stopped in 1950. Also in 1950, Kentucky was informally launched due to her drydock being needed to repair Missouri after that ship ran aground.

Kentucky's bow, as you mentioned, was used to replace Wisconsin's bow after the collision but Kentucky's bow was not "newly completed", it had been in place for years.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 12:33:47 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/9ykI1DJ.png)

The USS Illinois just before being cancelled.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 12:35:21 PM
Kentucky's construction was plagued by suspensions. Her keel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keel) was laid down at the Norfolk Navy Yard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norfolk_Navy_Yard)Portsmouth, Virginia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portsmouth,_Virginia), on 7 March 1942.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Kentucky_(BB-66)#cite_note-FOOTNOTEWhitley310-6) However, work on the ship was suspended in June that year, and Kentucky's bottom structure was launched to make room for LST (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing_Ship,_Tank) construction on 10 June.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Kentucky_(BB-66)#cite_note-FOOTNOTEWhitley310-6)[17] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Kentucky_(BB-66)#cite_note-FOOTNOTEKentucky_(BB-66),_1942–1958-18)[18] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Kentucky_(BB-66)#cite_note-FOOTNOTESumrall47-19) Work on the ship resumed on 6 December 1944, when the keel structure was moved to Dry Dock 8. Work on the battleship proceeded at a slow pace, and her completion was projected for the third quarter of 1946. In December 1945 it was recommended that Kentucky be completed as an anti-aircraft battleship, and work on the ship was suspended in August 1946 while this was considered. Construction resumed again on 17 August 1948 without any decision having been made on her final design.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Kentucky_(BB-66)#cite_note-FOOTNOTEWhitley310-6) Work on Kentucky continued until 20 January 1950, when it was decided to halt work on the ship.[19] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Kentucky_(BB-66)#cite_note-FOOTNOTENVR_Kentucky_(BB_66)-20) Following this, she was floated out of her drydock to clear a space for repairs to sister ship Missouri (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Missouri_(BB-63)), which had run aground (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1950_USS_Missouri_grounding) en route from Hampton Roads (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hampton_Roads).[20] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Kentucky_(BB-66)#cite_note-FOOTNOTEDoehring_(BB-63)-21)[21] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Kentucky_(BB-66)#cite_note-FOOTNOTEDANFS_Missouri_(BB-63)-22)

(https://i.imgur.com/awKEBfZ.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 12:37:09 PM
German aircraft carrier Graf Zeppelin - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_aircraft_carrier_Graf_Zeppelin)

Speaking of major ships not completed, what a waste of resources this one was.   And of course the Japanese effort to convert a Yamato class to a carrier was less than successful as well (Shinano).

DVIDS - News - The Yokosuka-built Aircraft Carrier Shinano (dvidshub.net) (https://www.dvidshub.net/news/422873/yokosuka-built-aircraft-carrier-shinano)

On Nov. 19, 1944, Shinano was officially commissioned, and on Nov. 28 departed for Kure, Yamaguchi prefecture, where the remainder of the ship-fitting work would take place. Shinano, with escort ships, had only been cruising four hours before they were caught on radar by the Balao-class submarine USS Archerfish (SS 311) and followed through the waters near Tokyo Bay.
Shinano’s escorts included the ships Isokaze, Yukikaze and Hamakaze, which were caught on Archerfish’s radar and followed by the submarine on a parallel course.
Believing that Archerfish was a decoy to lure Shinano into a convoy attack, Capt. Toshio Abe, commanding officer of Shinano, ordered that the ships outrun it by using a zigzag maneuver. However, by midnight, the ships were forced to reduce the speed to prevent the Shinano’s propeller shaft’s bearing from overheating.
Archerfish grabbed the opportunity and submerged in preparation for an attack. Shinano tried to turn southwest but ended up heading straight toward the submarine. Within a matter of minutes, the ship turned south, inadvertently exposing its side, offering an ideal firing situation for the submarine to attack.
At 3:15 a.m. Nov. 29, 1944, Archerfish fired six torpedoes, striking Shinano.
According to Hosokawa, Shinano was hit in the shaft-room of the #3 Engine Room on the starboard side. Upon impact, several thousand rivets on the bulkhead, especially between the shaft room and the engine room, came loose all at once. For IJN ships, rivets were used throughout the hull unlike modernized vessels, which are largely built by welding. The damage got worse with increasing water pressure and was beyond the crews’ ability to correct. Lifeboats and buoys were not available for the crew aboard Shinano, as they believed that, “escape from the ship equals timidity,” recalls Hosokawa.
Shinano was sunk on its maiden voyage 160 nautical miles southwest of Tokyo Bay, going down in history as the largest warship annihilated by any combatant submarine during World War II.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 10, 2023, 02:22:08 PM
They were between a hard rock and a worst place prewar after we cut their steel and petroleum supplies.  Their generals in China would not have complied with any orders from Tokyo to pull back or "be nice".  They really were facing a very dire situation without gaining oil supplies (SE Asia).  And what lay between them and Indonesia/Borneo?

The PI. 

They figured/hoped that a sharp early serious reverse inflicted on the US would buy time, and perhaps lead to negotiations somehow.  This would probably mean US withdrawal from the PI so Japan could get oil from SE Asia and be "independent".  Yamamoto of course counciled against this, but they were in a bind.
A few things to add:
First, the US petroleum situation in WWII was unbelievably strong. In 1940 the US alone produced almost 2/3 of total global oil production.

Second, I think everyone with even a passing knowledge of the Pacific War knows that Yamamoto was against it. His statement that "In the first six to twelve months of a war with the United States and Great Britain, I will run wild and win victory upon victory. But then, if the war continues after that, I have no expectation of success." Was remarkably prescient. The Japanese lost four of their six fleet carriers at Midway almost exactly six months after Pearl Harbor.

What I didn't learn until much more recently was that Yamamoto was not at all alone in his view. Nearly the entire hierarchy of the IJN could see that Japan, with an economy an order of magnitude smaller than the US couldn't prevail. I had previously been under the impression that Yamamoto's was a lone voice in dissent.

In fact, most of the naval hierarchy believed that the war would be a disaster for Japan. It was the Imperial Japanese Army that seemed to think they could take on the whole world and somehow win.

What is really ironic about this is that in 1941 the IJN was absolutely a first rate Navy, arguably superior to the RN and USN in doctrine, equipment (the brits were still using biplanes on their carriers and the Brewster Buffalo was no match for the Zero), and training. Conversely, the IJA was laughable by comparison. They got their butts kicked by the pre-war Soviet Army in the late 1930's, learned nothing from it, and still thought they could take on the British, French, Dutch, and Americans all at the same time.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 02:27:34 PM
The IJN was trained by the British, the IJA was trained by the Germans.  The latter had more political influence, and of course was deep into China where they acted as warlords.  There was no practical way they would pull back.  Tojo of course was IJA and they had military as well as political influence.  The IJN could do the math, as it were.

Hitler of course viewed Americans as soft, mongrel raced, and unable to do much beyond building refigerators (I know that quote was from Goring).

The rapidity with which the US economy went to a war footing is one of the most astounding features of the war.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 10, 2023, 02:29:14 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
The Panic of 1837 (1837)
In 1836, US President Andrew Jackson issued the Specie Circular, an executive order requiring purchases of government land to be made only with gold and silver currency, or specie. A shortage of specie soon made loans harder to acquire, and the US economy suffered. When the speculative bubble burst in 1837, every bank in New York City stopped payment in specie. The Panic was followed by a nationwide depression involving record bank failures and unemployment levels.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 10, 2023, 02:50:51 PM
Another thing that I've always found fascinating is just how short the window in which attacking the US, British, and Dutch even seemed plausibility like a good idea was.

The Pearl Harbor raid utilized all six of Japan's fleet carriers. The two newest of those were the Shokaku Class Carriers Shokaku and Zuikaku. They were commissioned in August and September of 1941 respectively. 

They needed all six to be able to neutralize the various airfields around Pearl Harbor at the outset of the attack. Thus, the attack was only feasible once Shokaku and Zuikaku were fully operational. 

The other end of this window was defined by events involving no Japanese forces and occurring thousands of miles away. Japanese involvement in WWII only made sense from a Japanese perspective so long as prospects of Axis victory in Europe seemed good. 

Even the lunatics running the IJA had at least some comprehension of the fact that they couldn't actually win a war against China, the US, Britain, and the Netherlands in the long run. They thought, however, that with the Netherlands occupied by Germany and Britain distracted by a desperate struggle for survival at home, that they would be able to grab some Pacific islands while everyone was otherwise distracted. 

The Soviet counter-offensive outside Moscow began on December 5, 1941. That date being so close to Pearl Harbor is NOT altogether coincidental. Richard Sorge, perhaps the greatest spy in history informed the Kremlin that Japan would be attacking the US and, more importantly to Stalin, that Japan would NOT attack the Soviets. The Soviet troops that conducted the Moscow counter-offensive were mostly pulled from the Soviet far East on the basis of Sorge's reassurance that they were not needed there.

Anyway, the Soviet offensive began to see concrete success in mid-December, 1941 with the recapture of various areas and towns. 

Once to German offensive was definitely stalled and the Russian counter-offensive began to show that the Russians had survived the initial assault intact and still able to fight the prospects for Axis success in Europe dimmed considerably. 

If the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor had been delayed by as little as a month, cooler heads might have prevailed in Tokyo because hitching Japan's star to Hitler's Germany would have seemed much less like a good idea.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 02:55:22 PM
I hypothesize that this traces back to our taking the PI after the Spanish American war.  I think the Japanese attacked us to secure the PI and their shippig lanes to SE Asia.  Had the PI been independent (or Spanish), that would not have been necessary.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 10, 2023, 03:04:05 PM
I hypothesize that this traces back to our taking the PI after the Spanish American war.  I think the Japanese attacked us to secure the PI and their shippig lanes to SE Asia.  Had the PI been independent (or Spanish), that would not have been necessary.
This is absolutely correct. In fact, when the US was retaking the Philippines the Japanese determined that they were more important that the fleet. This was because the Philippines were between the Japanese oil supply and their home islands. The fleet was useless without the Philippines as they would either be in the DEI where they had fuel or in the home islands where they had ammunition and repair facilities but they couldn't get both without the Philippines. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2023, 03:52:17 PM
Interestingly, late in the war, IJN ships sailed out with unrefined crude from Borneo.  This works "OK", sort of, but the lighter components are very prone to burning if ignited.

Surigao Strait if memory serves.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 10, 2023, 04:00:41 PM
Interestingly, late in the war, IJN ships sailed out with unrefined crude from Borneo.  This works "OK", sort of, but the lighter components are very prone to burning if ignited.

Surigao Strait if memory serves.
Yep, they didn't have transport capacity to get the crude to the refineries and the refined oil to the ships so they just sent the ships to the oilfields (Borneo) and filled the tanks. 

The flammability issue may have contributed to the loss of some ships but realistically the ships were going to be lost anyway so the only choice was to lose them idled for lack of fuel or lose them fighting. 

The Japanese fuel situation was catastrophically bad. I read once about a tank farm that the USAAF and USN bombed repeatedly. US forces were trying to get the fuel to ignite and never managed to achieve that goal despite repeated efforts. Postwar the Strategic Bombing Survey found out why: The tanks were bone dry and had been for years.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 10, 2023, 07:23:33 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
General "Stonewall" Jackson was badly wounded in the arm at the battles of Chancellorsville, and had his arm amputated. Jackson initially appeared to be healing, but he died from pneumonia on May 10, 1863

Upon hearing of Jackson's death, Robert E. Lee (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Lee) mourned the loss of both a friend and a trusted commander. As Jackson lay dying, Lee sent a message through Chaplain Lacy, saying: "Give General Jackson my affectionate regards, and say to him: he has lost his left arm but I have lost my right."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 11, 2023, 08:16:41 AM
Cutaway section of a Tiger II armor front.

Today's tanks use more of a composite armor with different materials in layers, like Chobham.


(https://i.imgur.com/eRAkdlA.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 11, 2023, 05:17:31 PM
On May 11, 1977, Atlanta Braves owner Ted Turner decides to take the managerial reigns of his team, which has lost 16 straight games. The Braves lose their 17th in a row in Turner’s debut, as coach Vern Benson makes most of the strategic decisions.

The Pittsburgh Pirates Won 2-1 at Three Rivers Stadium. It would be the only game managed by Turner.. After the game, the National League President Chub Feeney removes Turner from the dugout, citing a rule that prevents an owner from doubling as manager. Dave Bristol, who was given a “sabbatical” to allow Turner to step into the dugout, will be brought back to finish the year at the helm of the team.


(https://i.imgur.com/xDRwhEJ.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 11, 2023, 06:55:18 PM
FACT OF THE DAY:

Rand McNally once sued another map maker for copyright infringement because of the reproduction of an imaginary town Agloe they invented in New York. This "paper town" was created only as a trap for this purpose. The defendants prevailed, because the town later came into existence using the name that Rand McNally gave it. That town has since vanished again.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 12, 2023, 08:01:11 AM
The first-ever “self-service” grocery store, Piggly Wiggly. Circa 1916.  In grocery stores of that time, shoppers presented their orders to clerks who then gathered the goods from the store shelves.

(https://i.imgur.com/AWqiOiQ.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 12, 2023, 10:35:14 AM
The Zimmermann Telegram

This secret note, sent by German foreign secretary Arthur Zimmermann to the German ambassador to the US, said that in the event of war, Mexico should be asked to join as a German ally in return for Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona. British intelligence intercepted and deciphered the note and sent it to President Wilson. This helped turn US public opinion against Germany during WWI and strengthened advocates of US entry into the war.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 12, 2023, 10:35:58 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Soviet Union Lifts Blockade of Berlin (1949)
One of the first major crises of the Cold War, the Berlin blockade began in June 1948 during the multinational occupation of post-WWII Germany. In an attempt to force its former wartime allies—the US, the UK, and France—out of Berlin, the USSR began a blockade of all rail, road, and water traffic through East Germany to West Berlin. Rather than withdraw, the Western powers bypassed the blockade by airlifting thousands of tons of supplies into the city each day.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 12, 2023, 11:12:38 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/1TO6nh0.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 12, 2023, 02:36:32 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Ymr4psm.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 12, 2023, 02:38:23 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/BCgSEZm.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 12, 2023, 03:53:21 PM
After Nearly a Century, a New Limit for Patterns in Graphs | Quanta Magazine (https://www.quantamagazine.org/after-nearly-a-century-a-new-limit-for-patterns-in-graphs-20230502/?fbclid=IwAR2B-TdGOl3MjOzf4Uyzwza6T2bgz3mkH63N7emyQ1nEze9-rjJqx3gqyKk)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2023, 06:42:10 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/gvZcEH9.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 13, 2023, 09:02:11 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Battle of Palmito Ranch Ends (1865)
More than a month after Confederate General Robert E. Lee surrendered to Union General Ulysses S. Grant at Appomattox Court House, ending the American Civil War, fighting continued in other regions. The Battle of Palmito Ranch was fought in Texas on May 12-13, 1865, and was the last major clash of arms in the war. It ended with a Confederate victory, with 118 Union soldiers killed and a few dozen rebels wounded.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2023, 09:09:23 AM
Palmito Ranch Battle Facts and Summary | American Battlefield Trust (battlefields.org) (https://www.battlefields.org/learn/civil-war/battles/palmito-ranch)

I wonder what the Rebels were thinking here.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 14, 2023, 09:08:10 AM
Merkava

The Merkava series of main battle tanks is developed and manufactured by Israel Military Industries, Ltd for the Israel Defense Forces. It is designed to ensure crew survival, battle perseverance, and quick revival in case of bad damage, though it is still is vulnerable to remotely operated land mines. The heavily shielded engine is placed at the front of the tank, while the crew is able to escape through doors at the rear.

https://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Merkava (https://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Merkava)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 15, 2023, 06:59:19 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/X6cQibc.png)

1952, the downtown connector looking south in Atlanta.  You can see cones across the highway on left because it didn't go further than this until about 1964.  This freeway was notorious for having zero acceleration lanes for entrance ramps.  You can see one barely coming in from lower right.  This was rebuilt circa 1990 or so.  It is routinely clogged and doesn't connect anything much at all.

(https://i.imgur.com/S57nDYd.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 15, 2023, 07:54:08 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/7GqI9Wf.png)

Minor league team back when, mid 50s I'd guess here.  There also was the "Atlanta Black Crackers", a term you might not use today.  "Crackers" can be considered pejorative though I've read several etiologies about it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 16, 2023, 07:32:32 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/flg0MXF.png)

Workers attach the mighty R-2800 Double Wasp engine to an F4U Corsair at the Vought factory in Stratford Connecticut, 1943.
The XF4U-1 prototype was the very first aircraft to be designed around the Pratt and Whitney R-2800 Double Wasp engine. This beast of an engine was the heart of the F4U.
With 2,800 cubic inches (46 litres) of displacement and 18 cylinders, this mammoth put down over 1,800 hp. The engine spun a large 13 feet 4 inches (4.06 m) propeller.
On October 1, 1940, the XF4U was the first single-engine US fighter to exceed 400 mph. Not only was she fast in a straight line but also in a dive too, attaining speeds of up to 550 mph.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 16, 2023, 09:18:30 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/dXylD1a.png)

Traces of Texas reader Wylie Gober was nice enough to send in this circa 1975 photo of Earl Campbell at home in Tyler, Texas.  The house was on a 14-acre plot of land from which the Campbells eeked out a living growing roses, raising their own  hogs etc...  Said Earl's mother, Ann Campbell:
"I've been on this corner for 32 years, and all my life I never had to file an income tax return, never had no money in a bank. What little we made on the roses we spent right here. We had to take a lot of our clothes from the Salvation Army, stuff we could get for 25¢ or so. My kids were never crazy, though. They never refused to wear other people's old clothes. We grew all the food we needed. In the spring I'd slaughter a calf or a hog and we'd have our beef and pork for the year."
About this house, Earl said in 1977, "It's not much to somebody coming in, but to me, it’s the world. We don’t have much, but we’re happy with what we’ve got. I’m happy and I’m loved. That’s all I want. Without love, you’re nobody.”
Earl, who was one of eleven children,  made his mother famous in the speech in which he accepted the Heisman trophy. Said Earl, "You know, when I was a kid and I’d get in trouble, I’d always want to say, ‘Hey, Momma, I’m in trouble.’ So, hey, Momma, I’m in trouble!” The entire room burst into laughter.
Ann Campbell passed away in 2009. She was 85 years old.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 16, 2023, 10:26:49 AM
Tuesday, May 14, 1833, notable Confederate soldier & circus performer Henry Clay Thruston (1833-1909), known as “The Missouri Giant,” was born at the city of Greenville in Greenville County, South Carolina.

☞The following is an excerpt from Henry Clay Thruston’s Find-A-Grave page:

Known as “the tallest man to serve during the Civil War” (Pvt. 4th Regiment, Missouri Cavalry, CSA) it is said he stood 7 foot 7 1/2 inches tall. He traveled with P. T Barnum billed as “The Missouri Giant,” “The Texas Giant” & of course “The Tallest Man in The World.” In the South, he would lead the circus parade with a large “Stars & Bars” over his shoulders & in the North he often dressed as “Uncle Sam” & carried both “Old Glory” & the “Stars & Bars.”

It is said that during one battle both sides ceased actions long enough for a picture of Thurston & David V. Buskirk (at 6' 10-1/2 and one of the tallest men in the Union Army), to be taken together to prove who was the tallest!

☞Henry Clay Thruston met his earthly demise when he died from the effects of natural causes at the age of 76 in Mount Vernon, Texas on July 2, 1909.

☞Thruston’s historic dogtrot-style home, located at Mount Vernon, Texas on the Historic Bankhead Highway, now serves as the Mount Vernon Visitors Center.

☞The undated photograph depicts Henry Clay Thruston (center) standing between two unidentified men of ordinary  height.(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/346075931_559880616053544_2333654167093874053_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=ljt5q74457cAX9PPGk0&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfA0NzZHQU1aUunsEAOAAjFaq1Ng3ugsgCJG0J-qK2OAMA&oe=64690FCE) 


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 16, 2023, 02:53:19 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/IlX8fex.png)

Not weird of course, a pretty neat photo I think ...  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 17, 2023, 08:26:41 AM
The Titanic's chief baker nonchalantly stepped off the stern of the sinking liner and calmly paddled around until dawn. After he was rescued, he was back at work within days. Experts note that he survived history's greatest maritime disaster by getting completely drunk.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 17, 2023, 09:15:55 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Police Raid Symbionese Liberation Army Headquarters (1974)
The Symbionese Liberation Army (SLA) was an American terrorist group responsible for various bank robberies, murders, and acts of violence between 1973 and 1975. The group is perhaps best known for kidnapping 19-year-old media heiress Patty Hearst, who later became a member of the SLA—a decision experts attribute to a psychological condition known as Stockholm syndrome—and participated in their heists.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 18, 2023, 06:07:04 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/iwI7uKh.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 18, 2023, 09:35:59 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/6nGwzLf.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 18, 2023, 10:43:57 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/iwI7uKh.png)
What are we looking at here?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 18, 2023, 10:44:28 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/6nGwzLf.png)
First McDonalds?  I stopped there while driving Rte 66.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: LetsGoPeay on May 18, 2023, 12:28:09 PM
What are we looking at here?
I think that is Paris and it's arrondissements
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 18, 2023, 12:29:25 PM
I think that is Paris and it's arrondissements
Yes, that always had confused me no end, now I sorta understand.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 18, 2023, 01:15:37 PM
First McDonalds?  I stopped there while driving Rte 66. 
I did a lot of my growing up in a town called Des Plaines, IL. It was the home of Ray Kroc's first McDonalds. The building was raised a few years ago - it flooded a lot. There is a new store across the street. This was the old one. Ate plenty of burgers in the joint as a kid.


(https://i.imgur.com/cvOl72F.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 18, 2023, 01:45:49 PM
I am a creature of habit.  My junior year in HS I took 2nd year chem, which was two periods long, 4th and 5th.  We got dispensation from the principal to leave after 5th if we had no other classes (seniors could anyway, but not juniors).  I had lunch every day at McDs.  My senior year I had no 6th period class and had lunch every day at Burger King.  I got a Whopper, a large orange, and fries, for 99 cents.  The lady who worked there every day, by herself, would see me pull into the lot and have my order ready when I got to the counter.

For breakfast, my Mom always fixed 4 fried eggs, grits, toast, milk and OJ.  I would not gain an ounce.

These days we usually have leftovers from dinner that I heat up for lunch, today it was one taco and some cabbage soup (which I made, it's quite good).
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 19, 2023, 12:39:30 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/HxQmooW.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 20, 2023, 10:03:12 AM
cabbage soup is gooood

we didn't go to McDonalds or A&W or the local drive-in when I was a kid - very often a tall

money was tight and 99 cents for a meal was too much
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 20, 2023, 01:27:50 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/XkMioWr.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 21, 2023, 07:58:33 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/oJCOZxP.png)

Early morning on this date in aviation history; Friday, May 20th, 1927. Burdened by its heavy load of 450 U.S. gallons of fuel load, Lindbergh's Wright Whirlwind-powered monoplane commenced its painfully slow takeoff roll down a muddy, rain-soaked runway. Thankfully her J-5C radial engine still proved powerful enough to allow the Spirit to become airborne at 7:52 am and clear the telephone lines at the far end of the field "by about twenty feet.
Over the next 33.5 hours, he and the Spirit—which Lindbergh always jointly referred to as "WE"—faced many challenges in crossing the Atlantic; skimming over storm clouds at 10,000 ft and wave tops as low at 10 ft, fighting rime and clear icing, at times zero visibility through stratus and only when weather allowed, by using celestial navigation, and dead reckoning to keep on course.
Le Bourget airfield in France, was not marked on his map and Lindbergh knew only that it was some seven miles northeast of the city. He initially mistook the airfield for some large industrial complex with bright lights spreading out in all directions. The lights were, in fact, the headlights of tens of thousands of cars all driven by eager spectators now caught in "the largest traffic jam in Parisian history."
"I owned the world that hour as I rode over it. free of the earth, free of the mountains, free of the clouds, but how inseparably I was bound to them."

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 22, 2023, 02:43:08 PM
Voltaire was not his real name: Voltaire was born François-Marie Arouet. He later adopted the pen name "Voltaire" in 1718, when he was in his mid-twenties. He was a prolific writer and produced over 20,000 letters and over 2,000 books and pamphlets during his lifetime. His works ranged from plays and poetry to philosophy, history and science.
Voltaire was exiled from France twice during his lifetime. The first time was in 1716 when he was sent to the Bastille prison for insulting a nobleman. The second time was in 1726, when he was forced to leave France due to his satirical writings. He championed religious tolerance and advocated for the separation of church and state. He was critical of religious dogma and superstition and believed in the power of reason and science.
He popularized the phrase, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it": Although often attributed to Voltaire himself, this phrase was  coined by Evelyn Beatrice, a biographer of Voltaire, in her book "The Friends of Voltaire." The quote reflects Voltaire's belief in the importance of freedom of speech and expression.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 23, 2023, 06:31:03 AM
Voltaire was exiled from France twice during his lifetime. The first time was in 1716 when he was sent to the Bastille prison for insulting a nobleman. The second time was in 1726, when he was forced to leave France due to his satirical writings. He championed religious tolerance and advocated for the separation of church and state. He was critical of religious dogma and superstition and believed in the power of reason and science.
He popularized the phrase, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it": Although often attributed to Voltaire himself, this phrase was  coined by Evelyn Beatrice, a biographer of Voltaire, in her book "The Friends of Voltaire." The quote reflects Voltaire's belief in the importance of freedom of speech and expression.
He apparently was ahead of his time and could teach us today a thing or two. Voltaire gets a Yuengling
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 23, 2023, 11:21:27 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/bhPfyqm.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 23, 2023, 12:56:52 PM
The pacemaker, ultrasound, safety match, astronomical lens, marine propeller, the refrigerator, and computer mouse are all famous items that were invented in Sweden or by Swedes who weren’t living in Sweden.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 23, 2023, 01:02:25 PM
Forgetting something there FF - try to keep up
(https://i.imgur.com/iNFsklP.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 23, 2023, 02:48:43 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/RNvsbjH.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on May 23, 2023, 03:13:10 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/RNvsbjH.png)

I grew up on these on Friday nights, when my parents were going out.  Salisbury Steak was definitely my favorite.

We also mixed in some of these:

(https://i.imgur.com/Nk8WHY7.png)

And of course these:


(https://i.imgur.com/gcT71OR.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 23, 2023, 04:20:36 PM
yup, me too

parents didn't take kids "out"
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 23, 2023, 05:55:46 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/RNvsbjH.png)
Can't tell you how many times I came home after working 2nd shift close the pubs then pop one of those in the oven at 3am. Wake up 3 hrs later smoke like london fog. Salsbury Steak was thick as Jerky,tater tots the size of peas,the peas the size of BBs. When I rented a house with some friends one of the guys came home blottoed and did the same thing. Other buddy and his fiance' woke up hrs later and the guy's sawing logs half hanging off the couch and they started laughing. Well the next day we took the Swanson/Banquet dinner after it cooled down and shellaced it and hung it in the living room with the other priceless art
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 24, 2023, 08:13:50 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Peter Minuit Buys Manhattan (1626)
Peter Minuit was the director-general of the Dutch colony of New Netherland who is credited with the purchase of the island of Manhattan in 1626. According to legend, he persuaded the natives—perhaps a Metoac band of Lenape known as the Canarsee, who were actually native to what is now Brooklyn—to "sell" the island for a handful of trade goods worth approximately 60 guilders.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 24, 2023, 12:11:52 PM
More "counter-narrative" history, Henry VIII:

I think the narrative is that Henry was basically just a dirty old man who repeatedly came up with excuses to get rid of his wives solely in pursuit of younger women.  Basically he caused a whole lot of mayhem just so that he could get laid.  

The more I've read about him and the time, the less true I've found that to be.  

First off, there is some very important background that seems to be overlooked by nearly everyone:
Henry VIII's father, Henry VII, won the throne on the battlefield.  Henry VII's victory at the Battle of Bosworth Field and the death of Richard III at that battle effectively ended the Wars of the Roses which had raged in England for more than thirty years.  Henry VII also became the last English King to win his throne on the field of battle.  

The Battle of Bosworth Field occurred in 1487 and Henry VIII was born four years later, in 1491.  Thus, Henry VIII had no personal recollection of the Wars of the Roses but in his youth nearly everyone he looked up to would have been veterans or victims (or both) of the conflict.  A disputed succession was part of the underlying cause of the Wars of the Roses and at the time the concept of Female succession to the throne was rather dubious.  Given that vast numbers of high ranking noblemen and royals were killed in the Wars of the Roses, Henry VIII was justified in seeing it as his duty to provide his Kingdom with an undisputed Heir.  

Second, I want to delve into Henry's upbringing.  Many people do not realize this, but Henry was not originally destined to be a King.  He was actually Henry VII's third child and second son.  Henry VII's first child was a son named Arthur who WAS intended to be the next King.  Arthur was raised, trained, and educated in those things thought necessary for a future King.  Henry, being a third child and second son, was not.  Instead, Henry VII's intention was for Henry to go into the Priesthood and become a Bishop or Cardinal thus providing a valuable ally within the church for Arthur, the future King.  Henry was thus educated with this in mind.  His training was not just in religion but also in the complexities of Church Law so when he later challenged the Pope on issues relating to his marriage to Catherine he was not an uneducated person.  Henry KNEW church law very well and, as you'll see, his position was more than sound on the basis of existing Church Law.  

Third, Henry's first (and by far longest) marriage to Catherine of Aragon appears to have been at least relatively happy for quite some time.  Henry and Catherine were married on June 11, 1509 when Catherine (born Dec 16, 1485) was 23 and Henry (born June 28, 1491) was 17.  Not only was Catherine six year older than Henry, she had also been previously married . . . to Henry's older brother Arthur.  

Catherine's first marriage:
Pre-reformation England was basically always in conflict with France.  France and England sought allies.  France's traditional ally was Scotland and England's traditional ally was Spain.  In both cases this served to threaten their rival's opposite flank.  Ie, England's position against France to their South was weakened by the need to defend their North against Scotland and France's position against England to their North was weakened by the need to defend their South against Spain.  

Henry VII sought a marriage for his son and Heir to a Spanish princess to reinforce this traditional alliance.  Thus, a marriage between Henry VII's son Arthur and Catherine who was the daughter of Ferdinand II of Aragon and Isabella I of Castile.  Ferdinand and Isabella ruled as co-monarchs as each was a reigning monarch in their own right.  Their marriage served the purpose of uniting Spain.  

Catherine and Arthur were married by proxy (due to Henry's youth) in 1499 and first met on November 4, 1501 when Arthur (born September 20, 1486) and Catherine (born December 16, 1485) were both 15.  Both became ill in March, 1502 and though Catherine recovered, Arthur died on April 2, 1502.  

Arthur's marriage to Catherine had served two purposes important to his (and young Henry's) father.  First, Catherine had come with a substantial dowry.  The recently united Spain had money and the English King was more-or-less broke after 30-odd years of civil war.  Apparently the dowry would have to be returned if Catherine was returned and Henry VII wanted to avoid that.  Additionally, Henry VII's alliance with Spain was important to England as they were generally always in conflict with France.  Thus, things started to get weird:

When Arthur died Catherine was 16.  The new Heir apparent Henry was just 10.  As such, Henry was not yet old enough to marry but Henry VII began almost immediately to work towards an eventual marriage between his widowed daughter-in-law and his oldest remaining son.  There were, however, some issues.  Under Cannon Law (basically Papal interpretations of biblical passages) a man generally could not marry his brother's widow.  This would have prevented a marriage between Henry and Catherine but there were exceptions.  The exception that Henry VII chose to pursue was to claim that Catherine and Arthur's marriage had never been consummated.  

IMHO, this claim is laughable on it's face.  Arthur and Catherine were both 15 when they were married and literally their JOB was to produce an heir to the English throne.  The idea that two 15 year olds who were supposed to make babies, chose not to have sex for no apparent reason and in violation of their royal duty to produce an heir is frankly silly.  Nonetheless, Henry VII sent a representative to the Pope who chose to accept this nonsense and authorize an eventual marriage between Catherine and her deceased husband's younger brother.  

Based on this "exception" blessed by the Pope, Catherine was engaged to the heir to the English throne for a second time and she married Henry VIII in 1509 when she was 23 and he was 17.  Henry and Catherine were then apparently relatively happily for about 20 years.  They had six children but, unfortunately, only one survived beyond infancy and also unfortunately given the lack of precedent for female succession to the throne in England at the time, the lone survivor was a girl.  The children were:


Henry VII had died in 1509, shortly before Henry and Catherine's marriage so they were married then crowned at about the same time.  Catherine had been born in 1485 so at the time of the last miscarriage listed above she was about 33 and 10 years later she still hadn't produced a male heir and she was over 40 and generally believed to be no longer fertile.  

Henry had been born in 1491 so by 1531 he was no longer the dashing young prince of his youth but an aging (especially by contemporary standards) monarch with no clear heir.  This was a MAJOR concern for Henry who, as I mentioned above, was well versed in the horrors of a 30-year civil war set off by a disputed succession immediately prior to his father's ascension.  

Thus, by the mid 1520's Henry began casting about for a solution.  Now remember that Henry was a religious scholar.  Well, he determined that his marriage with Catherine was childless (he very nearly considered Mary to be a non-entitiy at least as far as succession was concerned) because it was contrary to the Bible, specifically Leviticus 20:21 "If a man marries his brother's wife, it is an act of impurity; he has dishonored his brother.  They will be childless."  To Henry, this pretty clearly proscribed his marriage to Catherine.  This was important to Henry because divorce simply wasn't an option in those days.  He could only get out of the marriage to Catherine if he could have the whole thing "annulled" which legally means that it never was as opposed to a divorce which ends a marriage that is still acknowledged to have previously existed.  

The problem was that, at the time, the Pope was more-or-less a prisoner of Catherine's nephew (long story, Hapsburgs, Central European wars, etc) and the Pope was therefore not in a position to grant Henry the annulment that he sought even if he wanted to.  Thus, the Pope declined to grant the annulment and Henry's response was to declare an end to Papal supremacy and declare himself (as monarch) supreme in ecclesiastical matters within his realm.  

One thing that fascinates me and it deserves it's own post so I will not delve deeply into it here is that the people of England generally went along with Henry even under severe sanction from the Pope.  

In any case, Henry's marriage to Catherine was declared illegitimate and Henry married Anne Boleyn.  She was the second of Henry's six wives who were, as the saying goes:
Thus, at the time of Henry's death on January 8, 1547 at the age of 55 he had three surviving children each of whom would eventually attain the English throne:


My point isn't so much that Henry was a good or blameless guy.  He certainly did some bad things and the trumped up charges/execution of Anne Boleyn is terrible (although that may have been more political intrigue amongst Henry's underlings than his own doing).  My point is simply that I think Henry gets an unfairly bad reputation because most people ignore the fact that Henry had very good reasons to want to leave an undisputed heir.  Sure, he also had less honorable reasons but the good reasons shouldn't be altogether ignored.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 24, 2023, 12:27:30 PM
More "counter-narrative" history, Henry VIII:
Thanks for this, Medina. I'm seeing the production of Six next month, and this is good background that I didn't otherwise know.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 24, 2023, 12:59:56 PM
I hope Medina was able to copy & paste at least some of that.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on May 24, 2023, 03:27:14 PM
WOW longcat is long
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 25, 2023, 07:29:21 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Star Wars Is Released (1977)
After its release in 1977, Star Wars became a worldwide pop culture phenomenon, spawning two film sequels and three prequels as well as myriad novels, video games, and comic books. The films, which grossed over $4 billion, chronicle Luke Skywalker's quest to help the rebels defeat an evil empire and iconic villain Darth Vader.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 25, 2023, 08:47:50 AM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/348860693_913861486371354_6931264091577458167_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=6ycY_YznQ9YAX_wgFS1&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfARcVUfrpyWkKbNbSXbId_mtqBAPYBEwnX5qYVarl0llw&oe=6473FC71)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 25, 2023, 10:15:52 AM
On this day in 1906, brothers Orville and Wilbur Wright received their first patent related to their “flying machine.” 

According to automotivehistory-dot-org "They originally filed for the patent prior to their first powered flight, which took place on December 17, 1903, a few miles south of Kitty Hawk, North Carolina. After the rejection of their first patent application, they hired a patent lawyer. This man found the language that ensured they would receive the proper credit for their invention and. After filing in 1903, they finally received U.S. patent number 821,393 on this day in 1906. It covered a system of aerodynamic control that manipulated a flying machine’s surfaces."

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on May 25, 2023, 11:40:09 AM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/348860693_913861486371354_6931264091577458167_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=6ycY_YznQ9YAX_wgFS1&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfARcVUfrpyWkKbNbSXbId_mtqBAPYBEwnX5qYVarl0llw&oe=6473FC71)
The dude was quite smart.

And pretty crazy.  

Sometimes those go hand in hand.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 25, 2023, 11:48:23 AM

Albert Einstein once commented on Dirac: "I have a lot of trouble with Dirac. This balancing on the dizzying path between genius and madness is awful!"

Dirac quantised the gravitational field, formulated the most logically perfect presentation of quantum mechanics and predicted the existence of anti-matter (https://www.wondersofphysics.com/2020/07/this-is-how-dirac-predicted-antimatter.html). At the same time, he was also equally famous for his strange, unapologetic behavior.




Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 25, 2023, 12:35:50 PM
Dirac and Oppenheimer spent some time together in Göttingen. The two young physicists from different parts of the world had become good friends. In one of these days, Dirac noticed that Oppenheimer wrote poetry.

Dirac asserted, "Robert, I do not understand how a man can work on the frontiers of physics and write poetry at the same time."

Paul Dirac, Robert Oppenheimer Poetry Anecdote

"Why not?" Oppenheimer asked.

"In physics, you want to tell something that nobody knew before, in words which everyone can understand. In poetry, however, you go on to describe something that everybody knows about, in incomprehensible ways."

Oppenheimer was left too confused to respond to that.

Dirac went on to say, "The two are incompatible!"


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 25, 2023, 12:50:23 PM
Professor Werner Heisenberg is speeding down the highway, when a cop pulls him over.

The cop walks up to his car and asks, "Excuse me sir, do you know how fast you were going?"

Heisenberg responds, "No...but I know exactly where I am!"
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on May 25, 2023, 12:58:46 PM
Quote
Dirac and Oppenheimer spent some time together in Göttingen. The two young physicists from different parts of the world had become good friends. In one of these days, Dirac noticed that Oppenheimer wrote poetry.

Dirac asserted, "Robert, I do not understand how a man can work on the frontiers of physics and write poetry at the same time."

Paul Dirac, Robert Oppenheimer Poetry Anecdote

"Why not?" Oppenheimer asked.

"In physics, you want to tell something that nobody knew before, in words which everyone can understand. In poetry, however, you go on to describe something that everybody knows about, in incomprehensible ways."

Oppenheimer was left too confused to respond to that.

Dirac went on to say, "The two are incompatible!"


Heh, that's pretty interesting.

As a guy who is both an engineer, and at least a bit of an author and artist, I view it differently.

I actually view them as two sides of the same coin.

For me, the great appeal of Physics, is that it searches for and delivers a language to communicate and describe HOW and WHY everyday things happen.

Poetry and art, on the other hand, search for and deliver a language to communicate and describe the beauty, or the comedy, or the tragedy, that occur WHEN everyday things happen.

But really those are just two different views of the same thing, so I don't view them as incompatible at all.  And being able to speak and listen in either language, is a tremendous benefit. 

When my i s c & a aggie wife was trying to get into Physical Therapy grad school, she found she needed a couple of hard science prerequisites, so she took them at the local community college in order to satisfy the requirements for entry into grad school.

I tutored her in both, and she got As in both.  But she definitely struggled more with Chemistry, it just wasn't that relatable to her.  But when I tutored her in Physics, I described to her why I truly love Physics so much-- because it clearly explains and demonstrates the HOW and WHY, hidden behind the WHAT, we see in front of us every day. And because the results of Physical interactions are so clearly observable, she was able to relate very well, and she too found that she loved understanding the HOW behind it all.  She actually grew to really like Physics and looked forward to our time working on it.

Now, in deference to our great Chemistry friend Cincy, personally I think the same is true of Chemistry.  It's just a little harder to see.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 25, 2023, 01:42:34 PM
I started out as a physics major, but quickly realized you needed to be smart to major in physics.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on May 25, 2023, 01:45:08 PM
P-Chem was a pretty tough class, from what I understand.

Chem-Es talked about P-Chem, the same way EEs talked about E-mag.

Personally I really liked E-mag, but it was certainly challenging.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 25, 2023, 01:53:46 PM
Yeah, P-Chem was tough.  I had a bumper sticker that said "Homk if you passed P Chem.".

We had only 6 people in our class, 2 were grad students.  There was a "lower level" series that was actually tougher because all the premeds took it.  I took the upper level series.  I don't think I learned that much.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 25, 2023, 02:57:23 PM
P-Chem was a pretty tough class, from what I understand.

Chem-Es talked about P-Chem, the same way EEs talked about E-mag.

Personally I really liked E-mag, but it was certainly challenging.
I didn't find E&M all that tough. But it's partly because it was a repeat for me as I took AP Physics in high school.

Funny thing about Purdue. I got 5's on both the mechanics and E&M portions of the AP test. That meant nothing. Purdue allowed me to take the PHYS 152 (mechanics) final during the summer before freshman year, and passing that PLUS my 5 on the AP test got me credit. For PHYS 261 (not only was this E&M, this was E&M for EE majors) there was no way out. I had to take it. 

Now, EE 311, Electromagnetic Fields & Waves, THAT was outright hell. It was E&M in the world of multivariate calculus. If you could actually figure out how to properly describe the program as a triple integral, the integrals weren't super-hard to solve. But actually getting from the problem statement to the right equation? Damn near impossible. Hardest class I've ever taken, in any discipline, in my entire life. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 25, 2023, 03:25:38 PM
that is weird history
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on May 25, 2023, 05:59:28 PM
I didn't find E&M all that tough. But it's partly because it was a repeat for me as I took AP Physics in high school.

Funny thing about Purdue. I got 5's on both the mechanics and E&M portions of the AP test. That meant nothing. Purdue allowed me to take the PHYS 152 (mechanics) final during the summer before freshman year, and passing that PLUS my 5 on the AP test got me credit. For PHYS 261 (not only was this E&M, this was E&M for EE majors) there was no way out. I had to take it.

Now, EE 311, Electromagnetic Fields & Waves, THAT was outright hell. It was E&M in the world of multivariate calculus. If you could actually figure out how to properly describe the program as a triple integral, the integrals weren't super-hard to solve. But actually getting from the problem statement to the right equation? Damn near impossible. Hardest class I've ever taken, in any discipline, in my entire life.

When I said E-mag that's what I was talking about. E-mag is short for Electromagnetic Field and Wave Theory. For us I think it was EE323.  The "Radome Problem" occupied a great deal of my test time.

I have no idea what "E&M" means?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 25, 2023, 06:17:26 PM
When I said E-mag that's what I was talking about. E-mag is short for Electromagnetic Field and Wave Theory. For us I think it was EE323.  The "Radome Problem" occupied a great deal of my test time.

I have no idea what "E&M" means?
Ahh got it. E&M being electricity and magnetism, or the second semester of physics after you've completed the mechanics class. 

EE311 (or your EE323) was basically that second semester of physics moved into the EE curriculum, but the 800 lb gorilla version including multivariate calculus of the same concepts. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on May 25, 2023, 06:23:37 PM
Ah, okay.  I guess we made the distinction as well, but we just called it Physics 1 and Physics 2. First semester was mechanics, second semester was electrical (and magnetic). I also took AP Physics and got a 5, but at UT that only got you out of the most basic Physics classes including Physics for Physics majors. 

In UT Engineering, you weren't allowed to place out of ANY Physics-- 1 or 2.  They didn't trust your high school education and they didn't trust the AP test, to equip you for the upper level courses.  Which was okay by me, because it meant I had entire year of review that was an easy A.

And come on man, do you REALLY think a guy who graduated with an electrical engineering degree would find Physics 2 or "E&M" to be challenging?  You must have a low opinion of me... :)..

E-Mag on the other hand, as you note, was a bear. Very challenging but I found that I really liked it for the same reason I liked pretty much all of my physics classes-- it described in a language I could understand (mostly), the universe around me.  I love knowing HOW stuff works.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 25, 2023, 06:36:13 PM
Ah, okay.  I guess we made the distinction as well, but we just called it Physics 1 and Physics 2. First semester was mechanics, second semester was electrical (and magnetic). I also took AP Physics and got a 5, but at UT that only got you out of the most basic Physics classes including Physics for Physics majors. 

In UT Engineering, you weren't allowed to place out of ANY Physics-- 1 or 2.  They didn't trust your high school education and they didn't trust the AP test, to equip you for the upper level courses.  Which was okay by me, because it meant I had entire year of review that was an easy A.

And come on man, do you REALLY think a guy who graduated with an electrical engineering degree would find Physics 2 or "E&M" to be challenging?  You must have a low opinion of me... :)..

E-Mag on the other hand, as you note, was a bear. Very challenging but I found that I really liked it for the same reason I liked pretty much all of my physics classes-- it described in a language I could understand (mostly), the universe around me.  I love knowing HOW stuff works.


Yeah, clearly we were talking past each other. But I do recall a Physics 2 exam where I scored a 59, which was an A with the curve lol. So the idea that EE students that hadn't actually already taken that class in HS might find it a little challenging wouldn't be crazy...

And as mentioned they didn't allow placing out of either physics based on HS education or AP score. Partly because PHYS 152 (Physics 1) is a major weed-out course for Purdue Engineering. But I passed (I think with an 88) the Physics 1 final, so that was enough for them when added to the AP test. No option for trying to test out of Physics 2. 

And I do get what you're saying about understanding HOW... A good portion of my role is understanding how stuff works at a deep level and then trying to translate that via technical collateral to less well-versed audiences. Tech briefs, white papers, etc. Understanding for myself and then educating others. That's something I really enjoy. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on May 25, 2023, 06:40:34 PM
And I do get what you're saying about understanding HOW... A good portion of my role is understanding how stuff works at a deep level and then trying to translate that via technical collateral to less well-versed audiences. Tech briefs, white papers, etc. Understanding for myself and then educating others. That's something I really enjoy.

Oh yeah, I love teaching.  When I tutored her my wife was really impressed with how well I could translate the dry course material, into something she understood, and even enjoyed.

If I were to win the lotto or something, I'd strongly consider going into teaching.  At the university level, of course-- I'm not a psycho glutton for punishment.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on May 25, 2023, 11:25:23 PM
Oh yeah, I love teaching.  When I tutored her my wife was really impressed with how well I could translate the dry course material, into something she understood, and even enjoyed.

If I were to win the lotto or something, I'd strongly consider going into teaching.  At the university level, of course-- I'm not a psycho glutton for punishment.
you and Mathew would be lunch buddies
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on May 25, 2023, 11:30:21 PM
you and Mathew would by lunch buddies
I feel like we'd really get along and become best friends forever!!!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 25, 2023, 11:31:04 PM
nerds
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 26, 2023, 07:23:31 AM
Oh yeah, I love teaching.

If I were to win the lotto or something, I'd strongly consider going into teaching. 
Ya - then reconsider,what that's quote - days of our life like sands in an hour glass or some such. Tutor perhaps, maybe substitute but full time? You'd have to be crazy
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 26, 2023, 09:29:12 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Dred Scott Emancipated by His Original Owners (1857)
Scott was an American slave who sued unsuccessfully for his freedom in the famous Dred Scott v. Sandford case. Though he argued that having lived in states and territories where slavery was illegal rendered him a free man, the Supreme Court ruled against him in 1857, finding that no person of African ancestry could claim citizenship in the US or bring suit in federal court. Shortly thereafter, Scott was returned to his original owners and emancipated.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 26, 2023, 09:45:31 AM
I don't know that I remember even half of the stuff I was taught in college.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 26, 2023, 09:49:38 AM
half??

:s_laugh:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 26, 2023, 10:36:19 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/bj7D2IK.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 26, 2023, 11:09:06 AM
[img width=274.381 height=491]https://i.imgur.com/bj7D2IK.png[/img]
That looks a lot like the TV we had when I was growing up.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 26, 2023, 03:35:29 PM
The greater part of the population is not very intelligent, dreads responsibility, and desires nothing better than to be told what to do. Provided the rulers do not interfere with its material comforts and its cherished beliefs, it is perfectly happy to let itself be ruled. ~Aldous Huxley
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 26, 2023, 03:36:02 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/G0ORyY5.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 26, 2023, 04:07:12 PM
The greater part of the population is not very intelligent, dreads responsibility, and desires nothing better than to be told what to do. Provided the rulers do not interfere with its material comforts and its cherished beliefs, it is perfectly happy to let itself be ruled. ~Aldous Huxley
This is depressingly true. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 26, 2023, 04:09:51 PM
Well, how can the greater part of any population be not very intelligent?  As compared to what?  I suppose if you take the bottom 2/3rds and compare it to the top 1/3rd, that is obvious.    And if some government doesn't interfere with my own material comforts and cherished beliefs, what is there to complain about?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 26, 2023, 04:17:09 PM
Well, how can the greater part of any population be not very intelligent?  As compared to what?  I suppose if you take the bottom 2/3rds and compare it to the top 1/3rd, that is obvious.    And if some government doesn't interfere with my own material comforts and cherished beliefs, what is there to complain about?
So, you post a historical quote by a famous author who wrote one of the seminal novels of dystopian fiction, and then when I agree with what the author wrote, you jump down my throat over it? Seems passive-aggressive, CD! :57:

That said, I stand by it. The majority of people in this country would rather be led than try to figure out which way to go on their own. For many of them, they're not intelligent enough to do it. For others, they're just too lazy. It's a lot easier to be told what to do than to have to actually think about things outside your comfort level. Especially when the Kardashians are on. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 26, 2023, 04:19:33 PM
What is the stat on how many hours of TV are watched in the average home?  8?

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 26, 2023, 04:22:44 PM
too many
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 27, 2023, 07:37:39 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Operation Anthropoid: Reinhard Heydrich Is Assassinated (1942)
Operation Anthropoid was the code name for the Czechoslovak-British plan to assassinate top Nazi leader Reinhard Heydrich, a chief planner of the so-called Final Solution whose ruthlessness and numerous execution orders earned him the nickname "the Hangman of Europe." In May 1942, Heydrich was ambushed by Czech patriots and wounded. A week later, he died from his injuries. This was one of the only successful assassinations of a top-ranking Nazi leader during the war.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 27, 2023, 07:47:06 AM
The greater part of the population is not very intelligent, dreads responsibility, and desires nothing better than to be told what to do. Provided the rulers do not interfere with its material comforts and its cherished beliefs, it is perfectly happy to let itself be ruled. ~Aldous Huxley
Well what on earth is one to do about it? They keep themselves well hidden - never know what one of those nubbers nutters out there might do
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 27, 2023, 07:53:17 AM
Well what on earth is one to do about it? They keep themselves well hidden - never know what one of those nubbers nutters out there might do
interfere with their material comforts and cherished beliefs

you know, ................ stir the derned pot!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 28, 2023, 08:21:20 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Battle of Halys (585 BCE)
Also known as the Battle of the Eclipse, the Battle of Halys was fought between the Medes and the Lydians in 585 BCE at the Halys River in what is now Turkey. The final battle of a 15-year war between Alyattes II of Lydia and Cyaxares of Media, the fight ended abruptly due to a total solar eclipse, which was perceived as an omen that the gods wanted the war to end. After a truce, the river was declared the border of the two nations.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 28, 2023, 08:31:42 AM
I got to know some neighbors fairly well at times in Cincy, and coworkers a bit, I was often surprised how little they would know about "current events".  They'd comment they didn't have time or they found it boring to pay attention to the news.  Their stated reasons for voting for X could be interesting, usually it was the LOTE theory, based often on some rumor being passed around.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 28, 2023, 08:37:47 AM
it can be boring
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 28, 2023, 11:13:00 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Zj1axcD.png)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 28, 2023, 01:49:07 PM
A dime in 1960 was worth about what a dollar is worth today ...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 28, 2023, 02:07:41 PM
interfere with their material comforts and cherished beliefs

you know, ................ stir the derned pot!
Can't get near them as asswipes like Pelosi wanted to defund law enforcement of course that bent skragg lives in a gated community with private security.How can I unfund policiies like voting themselves lifetime health care? If there is a GOD, Nancy and her kind - Dick Cheney - will be getting eternal swirlies = waterboarding in the commode

:96:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 29, 2023, 07:16:18 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/YS1uTAw.png)

I'm a big fan of books by Bernard Cornwell that explore this and later events of the 900s as historical fiction.  And this is why Brittany in France is called that of course.  The inhabitants are known as Bretons, as is their original language, now rarely spoken.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 29, 2023, 07:43:12 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Waxhaw Massacre (1780)
The Battle of Waxhaws took place during the American Revolution, when 150 mounted Loyalist soldiers overtook a detachment of about 350 Virginia Continentals in South Carolina. According to American accounts, the Loyalist forces ignored the Continentals' surrender and massacred them. Americans therefore refer to the incident as the Waxhaw Massacre. The British, meanwhile, call it the Battle of Waxhaw Creek.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 29, 2023, 07:44:55 AM
A dime in 1960 was worth about what a dollar is worth today ...
got a bigger candy bar in 1960 for a dime than today for a dollar
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 29, 2023, 07:50:05 AM
A dime in 1960 was worth about what a dollar is worth today ...
I told this to Cindy and the candy bar was the 1st comparisan she made. You're right you got more
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 29, 2023, 07:50:31 AM
Yeah, and get a much smaller TV for $500 as well.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 29, 2023, 08:26:48 AM
Schrödinger's Cat is a famous thought experiment introduced by physicist Erwin Schrödinger in 1935. It serves as a paradoxical illustration of the concept of superposition in quantum theory and challenges the Copenhagen interpretation when applied to macroscopic objects.

In the experiment, a cat is placed inside a closed box along with a radioactive source, a Geiger counter, and a vial of poison. The release of the poison is dependent on the detection of radiation by the Geiger counter. According to quantum theory, until the box is opened and the cat is observed, it exists in a state of superposition, where it is considered both dead and alive simultaneously.


(https://i.imgur.com/1gLsBC6.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 29, 2023, 08:30:16 AM
some folks have too much time on their hands
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 30, 2023, 08:00:12 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Andrew Jackson Kills Charles Dickinson in a Duel (1806)
In 1806, nationally famous duelist and expert marksman Charles Dickinson—whose dueling career included 26 kills—was goaded by political opponents of future US President Andrew Jackson to insult Jackson's wife. A duel was arranged between the men, and Jackson took a shot to the ribs before firing what would be a fatal shot at Dickinson—the only man Jackson ever killed in his 13 duels. Jackson's wife died in 1828, two weeks after Jackson was elected president.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 30, 2023, 08:16:18 AM
I wonder how a duel would fly today.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 30, 2023, 08:19:03 AM
similar actions on the streets of Chicago nightly
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2023, 08:37:49 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/CrBpbV6.png)

I could not confirm this anywhere ... so it could be some kind of weird joke and not fact ....
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 30, 2023, 08:42:15 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/CrBpbV6.png)

I could not confirm this anywhere ... so it could be some kind of weird joke and not fact ....
Looks reliable 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 30, 2023, 08:44:58 AM
Looks reliable 
Checks the boxes.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 30, 2023, 08:45:04 AM
I got to know some neighbors fairly well at times in Cincy, and coworkers a bit, I was often surprised how little they would know about "current events".  They'd comment they didn't have time or they found it boring to pay attention to the news.  Their stated reasons for voting for X could be interesting, usually it was the LOTE theory, based often on some rumor being passed around.
?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 30, 2023, 09:26:06 AM
Guard/Defensive End Curt Merz who played in 92 games for Dallas/KC from 1960-1968...

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/349090534_784781299712388_7037776918046249695_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=4Jftr-4jabkAX_wis7Y&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfC-yg9C-8DpQiKYzlUwtt1PyyMO1PKlFLfjca7MwIBUoA&oe=647BCB2A)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2023, 09:26:55 AM
LOTE = lesser of two weevils
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 30, 2023, 09:43:16 AM
LOTE = lesser of two weevils
Oh, duh. I should have figured that out. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 30, 2023, 01:58:52 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/MFTuRGc.png)

The group that played what became my favorite jazzy music piece ever, but they were always on break it seemed.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 30, 2023, 02:31:09 PM
"Suddenly, without a word of warning, the report of a pistol shot rang through the room and then another..."
It was the 25th anniversary of Nebraska's admission to the Union on May 26, 1892. The Lincoln Hotel visitors were enjoying their "morning repast" when William H. Irvine fatally shot Charles E. Montgomery, president of the German National Bank of Lincoln, for having an affair with his wife.
Five months later, he was tried for Montgomery's murder in Lancaster County District Court. How did the court proceed? https://history.nebraska.gov/murder-at-the-lincoln-hotel.../
📷: Lincoln Hotel, 143 N 9th Street, Lincoln, Nebraska, circa 1900.


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/348678344_1175943886418053_3557466408198322437_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=mdYd3DRsvLoAX8Hia2z&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDrO2NVeb8zakgZ6LPI7n2CrxYBCdPR35miwK5q_8xmdg&oe=647AEFF3)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 31, 2023, 07:08:09 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Johnstown Flood Kills 2,209 (1889)
When the South Fork Dam near Johnstown, Pennsylvania, collapsed after several days of heavy rains, it sent 20 million tons (18.1 million cubic meters) of water cascading downriver at speeds of 20–40 mph (30–60 km/h). Less than an hour after the breach, a 30-foot (9-m) wall of water smashed into Johnstown, killing more than 2,200 people. The American Red Cross's response was one of its first major disaster relief efforts.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 01, 2023, 08:04:45 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Mary Dyer, Boston Martyr, Hanged for Being a Quaker (1660)
Dyer was an English Quaker who was hanged in Boston after repeatedly defying a law banning Quakers from the colony. Her death and those of the three other "Boston Martyrs" led to the easing of anti-Quaker laws in Massachusetts.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 01, 2023, 10:21:10 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/vuOLvIP.png)

I have a hard time thinking I'd want to be there.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 01, 2023, 10:32:51 AM
maybe when I was in my teens or twenties

maybe
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 01, 2023, 12:52:21 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/vZDr1sC.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2023, 07:32:59 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Bare-Knuckle Fighter Dies After 99-Round Fight (1833)
In 1830, bare-knuckle prizefighter Simon Byrne, Ireland's heavyweight boxing champion, fought Alexander McKay, the "Champion of Scotland," for the right to challenge England's heavyweight champ. McKay died of a head injury shortly after losing the lengthy fight, and Byrne was charged but later cleared of manslaughter. Three years later, Byrne fought England's champion, James Burke. After 3 hours and 99 rounds, Byrne was knocked out. He died days later.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2023, 08:57:24 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/BVOz4rL.png)

Downtown ATL ca. 1962 ... Peachtree Street.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2023, 09:07:37 AM
62 was a good year

maybe not for wine, but.......
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2023, 09:08:50 AM
1961 Bordeauxs are highly prized.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 02, 2023, 09:14:32 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/dtXFQQe.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2023, 12:00:58 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/349833729_291714723211356_3048455445717443190_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=AXK5I5VPwVcAX8L8MiR&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfB19E4nGEqk_QkgXix8PN1xIQGDr_aXaO5jlAdU9BM8Ng&oe=647E70D7)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 03, 2023, 08:04:46 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Edward White Becomes First American to Conduct a Spacewalk (1965)
The first spacewalk by an American astronaut was conducted by Edward White during NASA's Gemini IV mission, which was itself the first multi-day space flight undertaken by the US. Assisted and photographed by fellow astronaut James McDivitt and tethered to the spacecraft for safety, White floated in space for 22 minutes. His spacewalk occurred just months after Russian cosmonaut Alexey Leonov executed the first ever extravehicular activity.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 04, 2023, 07:56:24 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First Pulitzer Prizes Awarded (1917)
The Pulitzer Prizes—prestigious awards presented annually by Columbia University for achievements in American journalism, literature, and music—were created by journalist and publisher Joseph Pulitzer, whose will funded the establishment of Columbia's school of journalism as well as the prizes. Ironically, Columbia had rejected donation offers from Pulitzer during his lifetime because, as one of the originators of yellow journalism, he was regarded as unscrupulous.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 04, 2023, 08:34:19 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/7chg86u.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 04, 2023, 10:19:26 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/XApurBk.png)

Back in 1970 I was a construction laborer for the Summer, I was 17 years old, and got hired to work for this Carpenter-Foreman named Harry Ford building a foundation for a giant hillside Teepee and wood deck under The Hollywood Sign, owned by Jack Poet of Jack Poet VW. Harry was the coolest guy, and 7 years later when I saw Star  Wars I thought Han Solo looked familiar, so I stayed in the theatre to read the screen credits, and when I saw HARRISON FORD come on the screen, it hit me that he was Harry Ford, the Carpenter. The Film Business gained a Star, and the world of Construction lost a great Carpenter. He was a real good Carpenter.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 04, 2023, 10:22:28 AM
so, was he a great Carpenter. or just a real good Carpenter?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 04, 2023, 10:52:57 AM
He was proficient.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 07:23:19 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/yFnhWw1.png)

Everything is bigger today, mostly.  This is 1949.  Might be a newish concept at the time.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 05, 2023, 07:57:35 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Six-Day War Begins (1967)
After a period of relative calm, border incidents between Israel and Syria, Egypt, and Jordan increased during the early 1960s. Palestinian guerrilla attacks on Israel from bases in Syria led to increased hostility between the two countries. After Egypt signed a defense treaty with Jordan, Israel launched a preemptive air strike against the three Arab states, capturing the Sinai Peninsula, Gaza Strip, West Bank, Old City of Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 10:04:49 AM
A London bus trailing a wood gas generator. During and after WWII the supply of oil was restricted in half the world. The wood gas generators allowed to feed the petrol engines with a mix of hydrogen, carbon monoxide and methane obtained by burning wood with limited air, allowing the engines to work at less than a half of its nominal power.  15 millions of wood gas generators were sold in Europe in the nineteen forties.(https://i.imgur.com/QEXGwrq.png)

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All reactions:
873873


[/color]

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 05, 2023, 12:15:29 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/XApurBk.png)

Back in 1970 I was a construction laborer for the Summer, I was 17 years old, and got hired to work for this Carpenter-Foreman named Harry Ford building a foundation for a giant hillside Teepee and wood deck under The Hollywood Sign, owned by Jack Poet of Jack Poet VW. Harry was the coolest guy, and 7 years later when I saw Star  Wars I thought Han Solo looked familiar, so I stayed in the theatre to read the screen credits, and when I saw HARRISON FORD come on the screen, it hit me that he was Harry Ford, the Carpenter. The Film Business gained a Star, and the world of Construction lost a great Carpenter. He was a real good Carpenter.
Are you serious? You personally worked carpentry with Harrison Ford,
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 12:35:47 PM
No, I just copied that from FB, it's another's post.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 05, 2023, 01:28:24 PM
On ten-cent beer night, when an estimated 60,000 cups of brew are sold to a crowd of 25,134, the Indians forfeit the game due to the unruly behavior of their fans. June 4, 1974.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/351161827_686995636522867_2080313882417759516_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=hYr81ZBgy70AX-bLgqz&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDW42UKmAESMz0OjFSw4j4dn8oqCez_Tj8vti3-q3xAGw&oe=6483A96D)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 03:10:43 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/dAv6z8p.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 05, 2023, 03:46:04 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/aobTMn2.png)

What If Today's Cars Were Retro Designed Decades Ago? (motortrend.com) (https://www.motortrend.com/features/modern-retro-cars-design-illustrations/?sm_id=organic%3Asm_id%3Afb%3AMT%3Atrueanthem&fbclid=IwAR1iEVU5aNfzWrBOcV3CfNF7-PT2w-a9idLhDGYI4Oe6q3Lw8vp_0BZ5clE)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on June 05, 2023, 03:47:33 PM
I might like it better if it actually looked like that.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 05, 2023, 06:34:38 PM
On ten-cent beer night, when an estimated 60,000 cups of brew are sold to a crowd of 25,134, the Indians forfeit the game due to the unruly behavior of their fans. June 4, 1974.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/351161827_686995636522867_2080313882417759516_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=hYr81ZBgy70AX-bLgqz&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDW42UKmAESMz0OjFSw4j4dn8oqCez_Tj8vti3-q3xAGw&oe=6483A96D)
Brother and his buddies went - good times. The two teams brawled like a week or two before so prolly not a good nite to sell cheap suds
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Temp430 on June 06, 2023, 06:56:37 AM
I remember hearing about this.  I think it was free bat night too.  So the first 2000 fans in the door also got one of those little free bats.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 06, 2023, 08:07:09 AM
back in the 70s a free bat was probably the regular size
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 06, 2023, 08:07:42 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First Drive-In Theater Opens in New Jersey (1933)
The drive-in theater was the creation of New Jersey chemical company magnate Richard M. Hollingshead, Jr. In 1932, Hollingshead nailed a screen to trees in his backyard and set a projector on the hood of his car. After applying for a patent for his creation, Hollingshead opened the first drive-in the next year. Though it only operated for three years, the concept soon caught on in other states.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 06, 2023, 08:18:32 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/e4Zt1tU.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 06, 2023, 08:38:04 AM
I remember hearing about this.  I think it was free bat night too.  So the first 2000 fans in the door also got one of those little free bats. 
I remember that also. Not a great idea by the Indians promotional department. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on June 06, 2023, 08:39:29 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/e4Zt1tU.jpg)
A very appropriate image as today is the 79th Anniversary of the Landings at Normandy by the allied troops. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 06, 2023, 08:52:46 AM


(https://i.imgur.com/8lpXO6l.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/OMeT9QF.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 06, 2023, 08:53:39 AM


(https://i.imgur.com/dNgG0Lu.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/pEJzsFH.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 06, 2023, 08:54:13 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/8bT5riX.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/g5f5YKR.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 06, 2023, 11:04:44 AM
A very appropriate image as today is the 79th Anniversary of the Landings at Normandy by the allied troops.
Agreed and those boys (most were very young) went through hell on that spot.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 06, 2023, 11:07:55 AM
The Utah beachhead was established without many casualties, the Omaha beach was bad.  The Germans had a seasoned division there we didn't know about.  It was understrength, but had a lot of experience in Russia.

Monty was supposed to take Caen on Day One but that was never going to happen.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 06, 2023, 11:59:46 AM
The Utah beachhead was established without many casualties, the Omaha beach was bad.  The Germans had a seasoned division there we didn't know about.  It was understrength, but had a lot of experience in Russia.

Monty was supposed to take Caen on Day One but that was never going to happen.
I think it was Omaha that they very-nearly abandoned.  It was so rough that they seriously considered just giving up on that one and putting the troops on the others.  There were two main reasons that they didn't:

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2023, 06:22:30 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/EubrLy8.png)

The Dornier Do X: The world’s largest “flying boat”. It had a wingspan of 157 feet (48 meters) and length of 130 feet (40 meters), was powered by 12 engines and carried 169 passengers. 1929
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 07, 2023, 08:46:13 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Zoot Suit Riots Come to an End (1943)
Named for the style of clothing favored by the mainly Mexican-American victims of these clashes, the Zoot Suit Riots erupted between American servicemen stationed in Los Angeles, California, during World War II and the city's minority residents. While the local press lauded the attacks by the servicemen and described them as having a "cleansing effect," First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt denounced them as "race riots" rooted in discrimination.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2023, 01:08:15 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/5iy8VSh.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 09, 2023, 07:45:04 AM
Newton vs Leibniz, the great Calculus Controversy:
v/ PhysicsInHistory  & Cantor's Paradise
The development of calculus is one of the most important advancements in the history of mathematics and has played a critical role in the physical sciences. The dispute over its invention, often referred to as the "calculus priority dispute," was between two of the greatest mathematicians of the 17th century, Sir Isaac Newton and Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz.
Isaac Newton began developing his methods of "fluxions," (later to become known as calculus) in the mid-1660s. However, he was initially reluctant to publish his work due to his aversion to potential criticism and controversy. The ideas were used in his monumental work, "Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica," but the mathematical methods he used in the "Principia" were mostly geometric, following the mathematical style of the time.
Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz, a German mathematician and philosopher, started working on his version of calculus around 1674, and he first published in 1684, almost 20 years after Newton made his original discoveries. Leibniz developed much of the notation used in calculus today, including the integral sign ∫ and the d used in derivatives and integrals.
The controversy began in the early 1690s when Newton claimed that Leibniz had plagiarized his work. This was after the Royal Society received a letter from Fatio de Duillier, a Swiss mathematician and Newton's friend, claiming that Leibniz had learned of Newton's unpublished work on calculus during his visit to London in 1673.
Leibniz denied the allegations and insisted on his independent discovery. The Royal Society, which Newton presided over, set up an "impartial" committee to decide on the matter, but it was far from unbiased. In 1713, the committee published a report, written by Newton himself, which unsurprisingly concluded that Newton was the true inventor of calculus and that Leibniz was a fraud. The dispute was bitter and divisive, straining relations between English mathematicians and their continental European counterparts. In the years following, the English largely stuck to Newton's notation of fluxions while the Europeans used Leibniz's notation.
Today, historians generally agree that both Newton and Leibniz independently developed the fundamental principles of calculus, albeit with different notations and approaches. Both made substantial contributions, and the notation of calculus used today is primarily that of Leibniz. But the controversy itself is a historical testament to the high stakes and intense rivalries that can exist in the world of science and mathematics.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 09, 2023, 08:25:10 AM
The Fermi Paradox (seti.org) (https://www.seti.org/fermi-paradox-0)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 09, 2023, 08:53:14 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Sir Charles Kingsford Smith Completes First Transpacific Flight (1928)
The first successful transpacific flight was carried out by Australian aviator Charles Kingsford-Smith and his crew, who piloted the trimotor monoplane Southern Cross from Oakland, California, to Brisbane, Australia. During the 7,250-mi (11,668-km) journey, the Southern Cross stopped to refuel in Hawaii, then flew on to Fiji—where it was the first aircraft ever to land on the island—and then embarked on the final leg of its trip.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 09, 2023, 10:11:15 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/TdtCKBD.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2023, 08:07:56 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/56ZvrxH.png)

When we moved to ATL in 1964, this was the only Sears in town (so far as I knew).    You ordered from their catalogue and drove down to pick it up.  It became derelict over the years and suddenly was revived into a hugely successful popular shopping center kind of thing, even in this era.  Being next to the Belt Line hasn't hurt.  We can walk to it, but it's so crowded we rarely do any more.  A baseball park was across the street for the minor league team, the Crackers.  Now it's a shopping mall with Whole Foods and a Home Depot etc.

(https://i.imgur.com/VYL6rOk.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2023, 08:13:28 AM
Ibrahim ibn Yaqub (912-966), a traveler from medieval Muslim Spain, wrote: “walking through the bazaar’s of the city of Mainz (Germany), I was struck by two things: the first was that various spices brought from India were sold in this city, and the second was that silver dirhams minted in Samarkand were in circulation in this country.”

From the eighth to the twelfth century AD, the European region was under the influence of Islam. After the Abbasid Caliphate (750-1258) took control of the Great Silk Road, established close trade ties with China, Byzantium, the Viking tribes and the Slavs of Northern Europe. At that time, the largest medieval mints existed in the cities of Bukhara, Samarkand and Chach (Tashkent), and in the IX-X centuries silver coins were continuously issued here. These coins quickly found their way to Northern Europe without entering local circulation. Thus, it is safe to say that gold and silver dirhams minted by the caliphate were accepted as an international standard at that time and were in circulation on all trade routes.

Below is an example of a gold coin minted by the King of East England Offa (757-796). The inscriptions on the coin are copied from dirhams of Offa's contemporary Caliph Al-Mansur (754-775). Since the coin was copied fairly accurately, you can read the name of the ruler "Offa Rex" (King Offa) and the numbers 157 AH (773-74). However, it is clear that the stamper did not read Arabic. On the obverse of the coin (Obverse) there are errors in Arabic letters around the Offa inscription. On the reverse side (reverse) the word of the word "Shahada" is written.


(https://i.imgur.com/gNBZObk.png)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2023, 09:27:37 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Qvf2PFG.png)

In Pineville, OR, said to still have a dial tone ...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2023, 09:40:29 AM
Before is late 1970s and today, a spot near me:

(https://i.imgur.com/Q6mehQG.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/fbw1xID.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2023, 11:40:42 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/X2iwVCP.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2023, 12:12:24 PM
Completed I-85 Collapse Rebuild Time-Lapse - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR0PB0BvKVI)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2023, 11:55:00 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/yKTycSr.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2023, 12:09:26 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/dAmmvOE.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 12, 2023, 01:41:16 PM
The Fermi Paradox (seti.org) (https://www.seti.org/fermi-paradox-0)
I once saw a similar theory that said, essentially, that we will never discover any interesting extraterrestrial life.

Basically this theory comes down to the same time issue. 

A million years is a VERY short time on a galactic scale and consider where life on earth was a million years ago or a million years from now. Any life existing elsewhere would either be so primitive as to be fundamentally uninteresting or so advanced that they'll discover us (not the other way around) and when they do their technology will be so advanced that we'll be 100% at their mercy.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2023, 01:55:38 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/kDVE86w.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2023, 01:56:24 PM
A million years is a VERY short time on a galactic scale and consider where life on earth was a million years ago or a million years from now. Any life existing elsewhere would either be so primitive as to be fundamentally uninteresting or so advanced that they'll discover us (not the other way around) and when they do their technology will be so advanced that we'll be 100% at their mercy.
I try and imagine a civilization a million years of technology in our future and ponder why they would find us any more interesting than slug worms to us.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 12, 2023, 06:32:28 PM
Beginning in Chadron, Nebraska, the Great Cowboy Race was a thousand miles of prairie to Buffalo Bill’s Wild West Show in Chicago. Out of nine riders, seven crossed the finish including famed outlaw Doc Middleton.

https://history.nebraska.gov/marker-monday-chadron-chicago-cowboy-race/?fbclid=IwAR33i_dDLCJcqCwqeD4qAEJ8kcYeLHDuoubp8deKAmNzeT7yne8YF_GYsnk (https://history.nebraska.gov/marker-monday-chadron-chicago-cowboy-race/?fbclid=IwAR33i_dDLCJcqCwqeD4qAEJ8kcYeLHDuoubp8deKAmNzeT7yne8YF_GYsnk)

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/349126851_1434317227419677_2554139876173525568_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=4JjEXav5ii0AX-hj8wg&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBndRdNSc8n-L-dki3yDBxfCT5mpV7jmFr--XVwmsurCQ&oe=648C4EAE)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 12, 2023, 07:44:55 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/350948815_209370711925253_4531547936046687669_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=QsdGL-UjP8QAX_BhDnT&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfC_GBeuOysuRA20-Ci4t6MEWLVFFDnelM32b4_3Z-my3w&oe=648D5A9B)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 12, 2023, 08:04:36 PM
I think there is a Kettenkrad in this picture?! The Kettenkrad is a truly unusual vehicle for the simple fact that no other vehicle like it has entered service, either before or after. It combines features of a motorbike with a tracked chassis, a combination that looks as weird as it sounds but actually became one of the most capable vehicles in existence over rough ground.
Measuring just 1 meter wide and capable of reaching 44 mph, the Kettenkrad was a mobile, nimble and fast little machine that could go anywhere and do anything.
https://tankhistoria.com/wwii/kettenkrad/


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/354005811_1564894340668609_8146297722282250325_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=2c4854&_nc_ohc=NkgGwoaHPsUAX8fFQx7&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfC7RPM3awYiCtNVpHac69_HuYpdON13PTAlueDO6hGqfw&oe=648CF614)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 12, 2023, 10:54:21 PM
The ABA's Miami Floridians team started off the 1970-71 season 14-15 under Hal Blitman but when they won only 4 of their next 19 games, Owner Ned Doyle decided to fire the coach. So it soon became a whole new team and a new coach.
Ned Doyle had bought the team for $1,000,000 in May 1970. An advertising wizard, Doyle was the man behind the popular Avis “We Try Harder” and Volkswagen campaigns. Remember the commercial where they tried to fit Wilt Chamberlain into a Volkswagen Beetle?
Blitman was replaced by Bob Bass, the Texas Tech coach.
Bass had coached the Denver Rockets for two seasons and would later become a successful general manager for the San Antonio Spurs and Charlotte Hornets, twice winning NBA Executive of the Year awards.
Though they made the playoffs, the team still couldn’t draw any fans. Financial problems continued under the new owner. Paychecks bounced on more than a few occasions.
Doyle promised the people of Florida a contender, so he knew that a fresh start was needed. His first move was to get rid of all the players on the team but keep Coach Blitman, and then he made the unusual maneuver the team’s marketing slogan, putting full-page ads in Florida newspapers that read:
“Instead of Firing the Coach, We Fired the Team.”
Doyle knew he had to get more people in the stands in order to meet the payroll, so the advertising whiz was always promoting.
There were go-go dancing competitions and free pantyhose for the first 500 ladies. Live turkeys were given away at Thanksgiving. Fifteen pounds of smoked fish went to one lucky fan while another filled his trunk with 57 pounds of Irish potatoes. Fans went home with vats of gefilte fish and kegs of beer. Bagels were tossed into the stands during timeouts. Dolphin’s placekicker Garo Yepremian tried to kick footballs into a basket during halftime. The overhead scoreboard at the Miami Beach Convention Center blew out smoke every time a Floridan made a three-point shot. The Floridians even had their own fight song, “Get That Ball,” performed by popular singer Teresa Brewer.
There were basketball-boxing doubleheaders featuring former heavyweight champion Jimmy Ellis. Muhammad Ali gave boxing exhibitions.
“The mistake they made was that they had Ali give a two or three round exhibition before the game and when it was over, half the people would leave,” player Mack Calvin said.
And of course, there were the ball girls in bikinis.
The novel idea came from the team’s new public relations guy – Ken Small, a former Miami sportswriter and magazine publisher. The girls wore red, white, and blue bikinis and white boots. They stood on the end lines behind the baskets and retrieved balls if they went out of bounds. Except for participating in ice cream and cake-eating contests at halftime, the girls really didn’t do much except look good.
Eventually, the girls did put in a little dance routine. Calvin recalled, “The girls were pretty and attractive, but half of them couldn’t really dance. It was more like a wiggle. It was entertainment, no one in professional sports at the time had anything like it. It was the Miami Floridians who paved the way for the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders and the dance teams that everybody in the NBA has today.”
The ball girls were a big hit throughout the league. They took their show on the road, going to Madison Square Garden in New York for an ABA doubleheader around Christmastime. Before the game, three of the girls popped out of a Santa Claus bag and the crowd went nuts. The next-day headline in a New York newspaper read: “Ball Girls Invade Garden.”
One of the job hazards for the girls was dodging the many advances from men that came their way. Surprisingly, it was the referees who were the worst offenders. One young blonde beauty told the Orlando Sentinel, “Oh those referees, they are always asking us for dates, even more than the fans and visiting players. But of course, it is strictly against the rules.”
Under the category of things that would never happen today, two of the ball girls were under the age of 18.
Doyle also made some big personnel gaffes. He was a great promoter, but he wasn’t a great judge of talent.
When Rick Barry was jumping from team to team, Doyle didn’t even make an attempt to get him, saying that Barry “wasn’t a team player and had bad knees.”
The 1971-72 season would be the last for the Floridians.
There had been rumors throughout the season that the club was on the auction block, and when an attempt to sell the team and move it to Cincinnati fell through, Ned Doyle disbanded the franchise in June 1972.
The players were disbursed throughout the league. Mack Calvin went to Carolina, Warren Jabali and Willie Long to Denver, Ron Franz to Memphis, and Larry Jones to Utah.
When it was over, the Floridians had lost $2 million in the four years of their existence.
“I really enjoyed my days in Miami. It’s one of my favorite cities,” Mack Calvin reminisced. “I lived in Coral Gables. My daughter was born in Miami. It was a great time. We just didn’t have a great team.”

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/352282049_224432210362837_2772613812246044980_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=TopVvL6DnKYAX9OwjWL&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfA695j0Jc7SOKBIhpqGR4u3_xfRr0a_YjvX2hVJWImVXQ&oe=648CC1B6)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 13, 2023, 07:43:44 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Martin Luther Marries a Catholic Nun (1525)
Eight years after he issued his 95 Theses and sparked the Protestant Reformation, Luther married former Catholic nun Katherina von Bora, with whom he raised six children. Though little is known about her, she is considered an important figure of the Reformation due to her role in helping to define Protestant family life and setting the precedent for clergy marriages. Von Bora was one of 12 nuns Luther helped escape from a convent in 1523.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 13, 2023, 09:56:35 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Martin Luther Marries a Catholic Nun (1525)
Eight years after he issued his 95 Theses and sparked the Protestant Reformation, Luther married former Catholic nun Katherina von Bora, with whom he raised six children. Though little is known about her, she is considered an important figure of the Reformation due to her role in helping to define Protestant family life and setting the precedent for clergy marriages. Von Bora was one of 12 nuns Luther helped escape from a convent in 1523.
Fitting with this "weird history" thread:

One thing that I've always thought ironic is that while Martin Luther and Henry VIII were the two men most directly responsible for setting off the Protestant Reformation, both lived and died believing themselves to be good Catholics. Neither was actually trying to make the change that ultimately resulted, they were only trying to correct a Catholic church that they believed had gotten off track. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 13, 2023, 10:51:30 AM
they weren't wrong
IMO
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 13, 2023, 11:13:27 AM
they weren't wrong
IMO
I absolutely agree and the proof is in how the other people of the time responded.  

As tension between the English Monarchy and the Papacy increased the Pope eventually took the extraordinary step of "deconsecrating" all burial grounds in England.  Per Catholic tradition a deceased person can only go to heaven if their earthly remains are buried in a consecrated grave.  Thus, this step theoretically meant that everyone in England would go to hell as would all of their ancestors.  

The purpose of this step by the pope was to convince to the English People to rise up against the monarchy.  Instead, the opposite happened.  The English Monarchy did have to deal with a few people that wanted to go back to being Catholic but the MUCH bigger problem for the English Monarchy was that a lot of people in England felt that the Anglican Church had not moved far enough away from Catholicism.  

The Spanish Armada was, in effect, the Pope's fleet as the Pope supported King Phillip II's effort to re-Catholicize England.  The Pope, Phillip, and the Spanish generally believed that the English people would rise up in support of Catholicism.  It did not happen.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 13, 2023, 11:39:46 AM
I absolutely agree and the proof is in how the other people of the time responded. 

As tension between the English Monarchy and the Papacy increased the Pope eventually took the extraordinary step of "deconsecrating" all burial grounds in England.  Per Catholic tradition a deceased person can only go to heaven if their earthly remains are buried in a consecrated grave.  Thus, this step theoretically meant that everyone in England would go to hell as would all of their ancestors. 

The purpose of this step by the pope was to convince to the English People to rise up against the monarchy.  Instead, the opposite happened.  The English Monarchy did have to deal with a few people that wanted to go back to being Catholic but the MUCH bigger problem for the English Monarchy was that a lot of people in England felt that the Anglican Church had not moved far enough away from Catholicism. 

It's an interesting point on religion, actually. 

People often tend to believe in the constricts of their religion, right up until it conflicts with something they personally want to do. 

I.e. the whole Catholicism / birth control thing. Sounds great until you're in your 30s and you already have two kids and really don't want any more. So the Pope may say it's a sin, but when the rubber meets the road, you're gonna be wearing rubbers from that point on. (Or getting snipped, or the woman going on the pill, etc etc. Point being the "rhythm method / NFP" is no longer your child-avoidance scheme.) You don't stop going to church nor do you stop professing to be a Catholic, even though you are openly and deliberately defying the beliefs of your religious leaders. Because being Catholic is identity, and you're not going to give that up just because their beliefs are actually really inconvenient to follow. 

Identity is really powerful. And I don't think we give enough weight to it when we look at human behavior. I feel like it's a much better explanatory factor than rationality. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2023, 11:45:09 AM
That sounds like my wife, she'd never leave the Catholic Church, and attends religiously.

She doesn't buy everything they sell.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 13, 2023, 12:13:06 PM
It's an interesting point on religion, actually.

People often tend to believe in the constricts of their religion, right up until it conflicts with something they personally want to do.

I.e. the whole Catholicism / birth control thing. Sounds great until you're in your 30s and you already have two kids and really don't want any more. So the Pope may say it's a sin, but when the rubber meets the road, you're gonna be wearing rubbers from that point on. (Or getting snipped, or the woman going on the pill, etc etc. Point being the "rhythm method / NFP" is no longer your child-avoidance scheme.) You don't stop going to church nor do you stop professing to be a Catholic, even though you are openly and deliberately defying the beliefs of your religious leaders. Because being Catholic is identity, and you're not going to give that up just because their beliefs are actually really inconvenient to follow.

Identity is really powerful. And I don't think we give enough weight to it when we look at human behavior. I feel like it's a much better explanatory factor than rationality.

That sounds like my wife, she'd never leave the Catholic Church, and attends religiously.

She doesn't buy everything they sell.
I've seen the term "cafeteria Catholics" used to refer to Catholics who ascribe to certain parts of the Catholic doctrine.  

What I've never understood about that is that the doctrine of Papal Infallibility, to my way of thinking, makes this irreconcilable.  If the Pope is infallible then you can't agree with him on SOME issues, it HAS TO BE all or nothing.  

I know of no protestant religions that hold their leader as "infallible".  In fact, many protestant religions don't really have a leader at all, at least nothing comparable to the Catholic Pope.  Thus, I think that Protestants are are lot more free to engage in the selective adherence to various tenants of the religion without inconsistency.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2023, 12:19:39 PM
The Southern Baptist Convention has a "leader" of a sort and a governing council of a sort, but the individual churches vary a lot.  We're seeing the "United" Methodists in a major schism now as well.  It may be inherent that denominations tend to fracture into smaller and smaller pieces.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 13, 2023, 12:21:31 PM
Point being the "rhythm method / NFP" is no longer your child-avoidance scheme.
Old Joke:

Q:  Do you know what they call women who use the rhythm method of birth control?
A:  Mothers.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 13, 2023, 12:33:29 PM
That's great MB.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2023, 12:39:56 PM
One problem with ultra strict interpretations of any religious "code" is that many people will either wonder off or quietly ignore it.  The other problem, I think, is that "experts" (ha) will interpret some religious text in very different ways.  This leads to schisms of course.



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 13, 2023, 12:41:54 PM
I've seen the term "cafeteria Catholics" used to refer to Catholics who ascribe to certain parts of the Catholic doctrine. 

What I've never understood about that is that the doctrine of Papal Infallibility, to my way of thinking, makes this irreconcilable.  If the Pope is infallible then you can't agree with him on SOME issues, it HAS TO BE all or nothing. 

I know of no protestant religions that hold their leader as "infallible".  In fact, many protestant religions don't really have a leader at all, at least nothing comparable to the Catholic Pope.  Thus, I think that Protestants are are lot more free to engage in the selective adherence to various tenants of the religion without inconsistency. 
I dunno, I think David Koresh and Jim Jones were considered "infallible" right? :57:

But yeah, there are "cafeteria Catholics", but all sorts of other people profess to believe something but do something completely different when it comes to them personally. I had a boss right out of college who was a Pakistani Muslim, who would fast during the day as is traditional for Ramadan (I think that was the holiday) but would drink beer otherwise (obviously not allowed). I had neighbors who were Mormon but were "Jack Mormon" and would come over and drink my homebrew. I've worked with an Indian Hindu who ate beef--just don't tell his mom lol. 

Hell, there are more than a few vegetarians that suddenly are okay eating burgers when they're drunk. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 13, 2023, 05:09:29 PM
I dunno, I think David Koresh and Jim Jones were considered "infallible" right? :57:
You are right (AFAIK) about Koresh and Jones but they led miniscule groups not large religions.  

I was referring more to this:
The Southern Baptist Convention has a "leader" of a sort and a governing council of a sort, but the individual churches vary a lot.  We're seeing the "United" Methodists in a major schism now as well.  It may be inherent that denominations tend to fracture into smaller and smaller pieces.
The Southern Baptist "leader" is more-or-less typical of large protestant denominations.  They may have a leader but he or she isn't a Pope which is analogous to a King.  They tend to be more like an "executive director" in that they manage the day-to-day operations but the power to make the big decision rests with the membership in one way or another.  
But yeah, there are "cafeteria Catholics", but all sorts of other people profess to believe something but do something completely different when it comes to them personally. I had a boss right out of college who was a Pakistani Muslim, who would fast during the day as is traditional for Ramadan (I think that was the holiday) but would drink beer otherwise (obviously not allowed). I had neighbors who were Mormon but were "Jack Mormon" and would come over and drink my homebrew. I've worked with an Indian Hindu who ate beef--just don't tell his mom lol.

Hell, there are more than a few vegetarians that suddenly are okay eating burgers when they're drunk.
This definitely happens with at least most religions.  The specific issue, as I see it, with Catholics is that the doctrine of Papal Infallibility makes it more inconsistent for a Catholic than it is for a Protestant.  Ie, you can be a Southern Baptist and disagree with the Denomination on say Birth Control (I don't even know what their stance is, just using your example from above).  Within the Catholic faith I've never quite understood how someone can be a Catholic but disagree with them on a given issue.  

If the Pope is infallible then Catholic doctrine (which is approved by the Pope) must necessarily be correct in ALL instances.  The alternative is that the Pope is not infallible in which case I would say that you aren't really a Catholic.  It is different for a Baptist or a Methodist because Baptists and Methodists do not believe that their religious leaders are infallible.  Thus, they can disagree with them.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 14, 2023, 12:18:32 AM
Hell, there are more than a few vegetarians that suddenly are okay eating burgers when they're drunk.

everyone has to deal with their own sins

hopefully, they can be forgiven
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 14, 2023, 12:23:31 AM
If the Pope is infallible then Catholic doctrine (which is approved by the Pope) must necessarily be correct in ALL instances.  The alternative is that the Pope is not infallible in which case I would say that you aren't really a Catholic.  It is different for a Baptist or a Methodist because Baptists and Methodists do not believe that their religious leaders are infallible.  Thus, they can disagree with them. 
I think anyone of any religion can and will disagree to a certain extent with one issue or another.
no matter how strictly things are worded.
It's the individual's mind and moral compass that make the call.

Perhaps weak and irresponsible and undisciplined to the letter of the religion, but..........

it is what it is 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 14, 2023, 08:01:45 AM
I'd call this a mountain, definitely ...

(https://i.imgur.com/ASGifoY.png)

Dayton, Virginia: The largest volcano in Virginia is Mole Hill. It is 577 meters tall (1,893 feet above sea level). Mole Hill is 350 meters above a limestone valley. This valley is full of a dense population of trees but lacks grass. The volcanic vegetation includes rare flowers that attract flying insects during summer and spring. Mole Hill has hundreds of creeping creatures, with many tourists detailing loads of bugs and spiders. Due to the lack of grazing grounds, Mole Hill is less endowed with wildlife. However, a few deer can be found here and there. Those who tackle Mole Hill are rewarded by its breathtaking views from the top. If you are “anti-bug,” know that Mole Hill has loads of them. While tons of spiders are fascinating to some of us, we understand if you want to skip this hike and admire Mole Hill from ground level.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 14, 2023, 08:41:31 AM
Silver was once mined in a German town called "Joachim's Valley." Coins minted from this mine were called "joachmisthaler," which was shortened into "thaler," which later morphed into the word "dollar." Provided by FactRetriever.com
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 14, 2023, 08:45:27 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

TWA Flight 847 Hijacked (1985)
While on its way from Athens to Rome in 1985, Trans World Airlines Flight 847 was hijacked by members of the Amal Movement terrorist group. The aircraft's 153 passengers and crew endured a three-day intercontinental ordeal during which one passenger, a US Navy diver, was murdered. Though most of the passengers were released during this time, dozens were held hostage for more than two weeks. Flight attendant Uli Derickson is widely credited with saving the lives of many passengers by doing what?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 14, 2023, 09:38:33 AM
everyone has to deal with their own sins

hopefully, they can be forgiven
4 putting again,FF?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 14, 2023, 10:41:40 AM
not lately, but plenty of 3 putts
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 14, 2023, 02:58:40 PM
https://youtu.be/rxK1VaHFMlI
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 14, 2023, 05:00:09 PM
FWIW:
I've been watching this series (https://youtu.be/sjaITUKwazc) and I think it is reasonably well done. 

They go pretty in depth on the Normandy Landings.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 15, 2023, 09:09:48 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Arlington National Cemetery Established (1864)
Early in the Civil War, Confederate General Robert E. Lee and his family fled their Virginia estate. Shortly thereafter, Arlington National Cemetery was established there. More than 290,000 people are now interred in Arlington, a privilege that is limited to active, retired, and former members of the armed forces, Medal of Honor recipients, high-ranking federal government officials, and their dependents.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 15, 2023, 09:14:09 AM
The requirements for burial are more strict that for being in an urn.  A Purple Heart will do it if it is due to a combat death (burial).

Arlington National Cemetery > Funerals > Scheduling a Funeral > Establishing Eligibility (arlingtoncemetery.mil) (https://www.arlingtoncemetery.mil/funerals/scheduling-a-funeral/establishing-eligibility)

I still think about Gatorama coming up from Atlanta that time to represent the board here.  There were a lot of folks who made the effort from Cincy as well.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 15, 2023, 09:17:30 AM
Gatorama didn't seem to mind traveling and obviously was a fine gentleman
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 15, 2023, 10:04:45 AM
Guess locations of these photos:

(https://i.imgur.com/4OqCWPG.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 15, 2023, 10:34:34 AM
Van Gogh and Millet - Van Gogh Museum (https://www.vangoghmuseum.nl/en/stories/van-gogh-and-millet#1)

(https://i.imgur.com/8S8yaf4.png)

I recall visiting the rather small Millet museum in Barbizon a few years back, it was quite something. And we visited the mental hospital near St. Remy de Provence a while later where van Gogh painted when he was a patient, also quite something.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 15, 2023, 02:07:56 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/S2e1Kh4.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 15, 2023, 03:03:29 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/X6SamLe.png)

This is the cockpit in which Charles Lindbergh sat while piloting the first aircraft to make a solo non-stop transatlantic flight, the Spirit of Saint Louis, in May of 1927. Note the periscope used instead of a forward window. The Spirit was designed and built in San Diego to compete for the $25,000 Orteig Prize, which was offered by New York hotel owner Raymond Orteig to the first aviator to cross the Atlantic non-stop, either from New York to Paris or vice versa.

That gear that looks a bit like valves might be just that for moving fuel from one tank to another to maintain trim.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 15, 2023, 03:06:33 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/MhGT4o0.png)

On June 12, 1930, Delta expanded passenger service east to Atlanta and west to Fort Worth.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 15, 2023, 03:09:37 PM
Top photo is from Aderaan,which isn't there anymore. Hang on to that might be worth something
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 15, 2023, 11:27:19 PM
Lee Lawrie was born in Rixdorf, Germany, in 1877, and came to America with his family at the age of four. His artistic talent revealed itself first as he sketched and drew the world around him as a young boy. At fourteen he was hired to do odd jobs in a sculptor’s studio, there he taught himself to model clay in the evenings. Within a year he had improved his skill and was allowed to translate models into full size sculpture for the Chicago Columbian Exposition of 1893. Later he worked in the studio of Beaux Arts sculptor Augustus Saint-Gaudens.

In 1910 Lawrie earned a Bachelor of Fine Arts from Yale and taught there until 1919.

He began working with Goodhue in 1895, his specialization in architectural sculpture complemented Goodhue’s early Gothic revival designs. The reredos (carved stone altar screen) in St. Thomas Church in New York is an important example of his collaboration with Goodhue which culminated in the exterior sculpture of the Capitol in Lincoln.

Goodhue and Lawrie had a vision of the exterior sculpture for the Capitol being an integral part of the architecture. Lawrie’s figures are engaged with the building, not separate and free standing, their form coming from the stone, buttresses and pylons of the building face. With his work for Nebraska, Lawrie brought Architectural sculpture into the modern era. Later work on Rockefeller Center continued this modern emphasis. From 1921-1954 Lawrie received eight national awards. He died in 1962, one of America’s foremost architectural sculptors.


(https://www.columbiamagazine.com/photos/32710.jpg)

(https://thecalloftheland.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/blogsower.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 16, 2023, 08:37:44 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/0Ktjwn4.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 17, 2023, 08:49:58 AM
The Gibson Girl was an iconic representation of the feminine ideal in the US at the turn of the 20th century, as portrayed by illustrator Charles Dana Gibson. The Gibson Girl was tall and slender, with an hourglass figure and tightly corseted wasp waist. Why was an RAAF survival radio transmitter carried by World War II aircraft on over-water operations nicknamed the "Gibson Girl"?

(https://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large/gibson-girls-1900-granger.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 17, 2023, 09:15:40 AM
New Dyson jet engine design:

(https://i.imgur.com/boO59RT.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 17, 2023, 09:23:04 AM
What’s the proper way to break ground for the new home of the Cornhuskers? With a team and a plow, of course!

University officials broke ground on Memorial Stadium on April 26, 1923. An estimated thousand people showed up to hear speeches and watch Chancellor Samuel Avery ceremonially plow a furrow.

Read "Memorial Stadium Turns 100": https://fal.cn/3z8D0


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/347400763_728344292632498_5576846913850086099_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=50FmA8-hJREAX9k_19F&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCXA7ZzrgDebS-4VaUI7NAGcBfRSKcq6NzOYOXhoFEbXQ&oe=649319EA)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 19, 2023, 06:08:02 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First Juneteenth Celebrations (1865)
Also known as Freedom Day or Emancipation Day, Juneteenth is a US holiday that commemorates the day when the slaves of Texas learned that they were legally free. Although President Abraham Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation was formally issued on Jan 1, 1863, it had little immediate effect on slaves' day-to-day lives. In Texas, it was not until June 19, 1865, when Union General Gordon Granger and 2,000 federal troops took over the state, that it was enforced.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2023, 07:29:27 AM
Lincoln's Emancipation did nothing at all for slaves in Maryland etc.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 19, 2023, 07:57:25 AM
Read "Memorial Stadium Turns 100"


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/347400763_728344292632498_5576846913850086099_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=50FmA8-hJREAX9k_19F&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCXA7ZzrgDebS-4VaUI7NAGcBfRSKcq6NzOYOXhoFEbXQ&oe=649319EA)
Much rather have any of those cars in the back ground than today's electric. Even if you needed a football player to crank one up
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 19, 2023, 07:58:57 AM
Lincoln's Emancipation did nothing at all for slaves in Maryland etc.
Strategic move to outrage the rebs and give those enslaved hope.Think it worked
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2023, 07:59:44 AM
They were rattletraps, no way I'd want one for more than a show car situation, and I'd probably need to trailer it to an event.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2023, 08:01:43 AM
Strategic move to outrage the rebs and give those enslaved hope.Think it worked
I think it was more focused on Europe than the enslaved, who would not have heard a word about it generally speaking.  My guess is the rebs chuckled at it.
 The fact it did not apply to the Border States was a kind of issue I think, though he felt he lacked the power to issue it universally.  It didn't even apply to Delaware.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2023, 08:21:44 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/iw3ff8W.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2023, 12:20:14 PM
Those enslaved in Delaware remained in bondage until December 6, 1865, when the 13th Amendment was declared ratified, without Delaware's concurrence.F
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 19, 2023, 12:23:02 PM
I think it was more focused on Europe than the enslaved, who would not have heard a word about it generally speaking.  My guess is the rebs chuckled at it.
Exactly, it was all about the European powers. Throughout the war a major Confederate goal and Union fear was that England and/or France would recognize and support the Confederacy. 

The Emancipation Proclamation was issued primarily to eliminate that threat. The timing had to do with making it not appear to be a desperate move.
The fact it did not apply to the Border States was a kind of issue I think, though he felt he lacked the power to issue it universally.  It didn't even apply to Delaware.
Legally it was questionable even in the states that seceded. Lincoln based his authority there on his power as CiC. In the States still in the Union he had no power to take such an action. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on June 19, 2023, 12:44:44 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

First Juneteenth Celebrations (1865)
Also known as Freedom Day or Emancipation Day, Juneteenth is a US holiday that commemorates the day when the slaves of Texas learned that they were legally free. Although President Abraham Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation was formally issued on Jan 1, 1863, it had little immediate effect on slaves' day-to-day lives. In Texas, it was not until June 19, 1865, when Union General Gordon Granger and 2,000 federal troops took over the state, that it was enforced.


Yup Juneteenth is a really big deal here in Texas, it started here and it wasn't really celebrated nationally until fairly recently, last 20-30 years or so, and wasn't officially a national holiday until Biden signed it into law 2 years ago.

But I've enjoyed attending Juneteenth festivals and festivities in Austin forever.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 19, 2023, 02:30:36 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/JWpX45D.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 20, 2023, 02:37:46 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/uiC5wA6.png)

I could totally fly that thing ...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 20, 2023, 06:19:50 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/wPznhKy.png)
Customers line up outside the first McDonald's hamburger stand which was opened in 1948 by brothers Dick and Maurice McDonald in San Bernadino, Calif.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 21, 2023, 07:37:26 AM
Customers line up outside the first McDonald's hamburger stand which was opened in 1948 by brothers Dick and Maurice McDonald in San Bernadino, Calif.
That pic is so old they don't have milk shakes on the menu
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 21, 2023, 08:24:22 AM
Well the milk shake hadn't been invented yet 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2023, 08:27:29 AM
The milkshake made it into the mainstream when in 1922 a Walgreens employee in Chicago, Ivar “Pop” Coulson, took an old-fashioned malted milk (milk, chocolate, and malt) and added two scoops of ice cream, creating a drink which became popular, soon becoming a high-demand drink for young adults around the country.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 21, 2023, 08:30:50 AM
Details Details 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 21, 2023, 08:57:44 AM


(https://i.imgur.com/61TCBin.png)


A novella called "Futility" that was published 14 years before the Titanic set sail seemed to have predicted the disaster.

"Futility (https://affiliate.insider.com/?amazonTrackingID=biauto-50096-20&h=c21a877685a6310c41f5169781422bc64b4f15fcf838c9c076ef5e73c449ff65&platform=msn_reviews&postID=5ac3eaf110d6bb29008b45a2&site=in&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.barnesandnoble.com%2Fw%2Fthe-wreck-of-the-titan-or-futility-morgan-robertson%2F1025286364%3Fean%3D9781455381142&utm_source=msn_reviews)," a novella written by American author Morgan Robertson, was published in 1898, 14 years before the Titanic set sail. It centered around the sinking of a fictional ship called the Titan.
According to Time, there's an eerie number of similarities between the ship's sinking in "Futility" and the Titanic (http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/04/14/author-predicts-titanic-sinking-14-years-earlier/) in real life.
First, the ship names are just two letters off (Titan vs Titanic). They were also said to be almost the same size, and both sank in April, due to an iceberg. Both ships had been described as unsinkable, and, sadly, both had just over the legally required amount of lifeboats, which were nowhere near enough.
The author was accused of being a psychic, but he explained that the uncanny similarities were simply a product of his extensive knowledge, saying (http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/04/14/author-predicts-titanic-sinking-14-years-earlier/), "I know what I'm writing about, that's all."

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 21, 2023, 09:09:14 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/AGeWrRe.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 22, 2023, 09:20:44 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Operation Barbarossa: Nazi Germany Invades the Soviet Union (1941)
The largest military operation of World War II, Operation Barbarossa was the codename for Nazi Germany's invasion of the Soviet Union. Named for 12th-century crusader and Holy Roman Emperor Frederick Barbarossa, the Axis operation included more than 4.5 million troops over a 1,800-mile (2,900-km) front. Though the Red Army suffered heavy losses, Operation Barbarossa failed and marked a turning point in the war that many believe sealed the Nazis' fate.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2023, 06:33:47 AM
Same date as Napoleon invaded ...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 23, 2023, 07:29:06 AM
same result
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2023, 07:40:34 AM
same result
Same final outcome, yes, but differences in timing of course.  Napoleon basically "won" by taking Moscow, and then lost when it didn't matter to the Tsar or his forces.

Had Germany been able to take over the Caucusus in 1942, the outcome there could plausibly have changed.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2023, 07:44:46 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/cWAMCf9.png)

Boundary of North American and Eurasian Plate.
Aerial of Almannagja fissure, Thingvellir National Park, Iceland .
Almannagja- 7.7 km long, width 64 m, maximum throw is 30-40 m. It marks the eastern boundary of the North American plate. Its equivalent across the graben, marking the western boundary of the Eurasian plate is Hrafnagja. It is 11 km long, 68 m wide and a maximum throw of 30 m. Thingvellir is also renowned for its geological significance. The area is located on the Mid-Atlantic ridge, where the continents of Europe and America drift apart, causing activity. Standing in the Almannagja fissure, the visitor is literally situated between the continental plates.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2023, 09:00:53 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/HubdDO9.png)

Unusual point of view of an M4 Sherman tank in Normandy.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2023, 11:58:53 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/qKe6WFu.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 23, 2023, 12:18:19 PM
Damn Germans blew up the bridge
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 23, 2023, 12:21:35 PM
Damn Germans blew up the bridge
LoL, I don't think that is Remagen, ask @bayareabadger (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1571) .
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 23, 2023, 01:32:19 PM
HuH? what did BaB live there?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2023, 02:30:59 PM
You go talk to kindergartners or first-grade kids, you find a class full of science enthusiasts. They ask deep questions. They ask, "What is a dream, why do we have toes, why is the moon round, what is the birthday of the world, why is grass green?"
These are profound, important questions. They just bubble right out of them.
You go talk to 12th graders and there's none of that. They've become incurious. Something terrible has happened between kindergarten and 12th grade. ~Carl Sagan


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2023, 02:31:39 PM
It's neat to see how little there was across the strait towards Sausalito etc.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2023, 02:33:35 PM
Novix Presents: Lima - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTIdU2psSGg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 23, 2023, 02:52:35 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/jT5eaqp.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 23, 2023, 03:26:17 PM
Something terrible has happened between kindergarten and 12th grade. ~Carl Sagan
Cars,Chics,Football,work,music for the truly demented - Golf
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: bayareabadger on June 23, 2023, 05:06:23 PM
Damn Germans blew up the bridge
A bit far for them, I’m afraid.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 24, 2023, 04:24:49 AM
You go talk to kindergartners or first-grade kids, you find a class full of science enthusiasts. They ask deep questions. They ask, "What is a dream, why do we have toes, why is the moon round, what is the birthday of the world, why is grass green?"
These are profound, important questions. They just bubble right out of them.
You go talk to 12th graders and there's none of that. They've become incurious. Something terrible has happened between kindergarten and 12th grade. ~Carl Sagan
I agree with the overall point and love Sagan, but this is silly.
When you're 18, you know a lot more and are only interested in what is pertinent to your life going forward.  Why are (and this may be what Sagan is talking about here, but maybe not) 150 seniors taking calculus when only 2-3 are going to be using it in their everyday lives?  
Questions like "why is the sky blue?" may stump many 12 graders, but it's because the answer isn't a simple one (or more precisely it isn't about the ocean) and the real reason is nerdy to explain.
Why can't 12-graders find x-country on a map?  Because it isn't pertinent to their lives.
Learning dates about wars or ratifications or declarations just get jumbled up in their heads after learning it for a test (ST-memory) vs learning to know it (LT-memory).
Standardized testing has retarded the education system.
Multiple-choice testing has retarded our students.
.
Everyone is for education, but no one is willing to do something major for the students.  And now it's just caveman politics with one side wanting everyone to have equity and the other side wanting segregation.  
It's all broken.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2023, 07:08:46 AM
I had the exact same experience in grad school.  My first year, we taught freshmen, they were mostly motivated and curious.  Then we moved up to sophs and then to a senior lab course.  The main interest then was "Is this going to be on the test?".  "We" had beat any enthusiasm for learning out of them for a base practical existence, they needed to make an "A" to get in med shcool was the case for many of them.  They didn't need to learn anything.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2023, 11:26:34 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Ey0m7RX.png)

Said to be Atlanta, June, 1933.  Pretty heavy traffic for a depression era scene, a lot of pedestrians out, billboard for "ice refrigeration", some store called "Sauls".  The street appears to be one way.  Men back then tended to wear coat and tie and hats when out and about, some in the back just have a white shirt on.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2023, 11:39:55 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/6cN4bR6.png)

Getting the stuff to do it yourself got a lot easier on this day in 1979 when the first two Home Depots opened.
Bernie Marcus and Arthur Blank started a chain of large home improvement warehouses that would stock more products, often at lower prices than any competitor or hardware store. Employees knew what was in stock, where to find it, and how to use it all.
Having lost their jobs with California‘s Handy Dan stores a year earlier, Marcus and Blank enlisted investment banker Ken Langone and merchandiser Pat Farrah to raise the needed funds. A nationwide search for the right location ended in Atlanta.
The first two Home Depots opened in former Treasure Island stores, cavernous warehouses stocked with up to 50,000 products. Those first stores have grown to more than 2,200.
The home improvement store that revolutionized the industry first opened its doors in Atlanta on June 22, 1979, Today in Georgia History.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 24, 2023, 01:53:16 PM
Employees knew what was in stock, where to find it, and how to use it all.

Wait, we're talking about Home Depot?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 24, 2023, 02:17:46 PM
Wait, we're talking about Home Depot?
At our store we have a bunch of older guys who worked in the trades, so they actually do know their stuff. When we first moved here I found a lot of things that were built differently than what I always knew. Those old guys came in very handy.

But that's changing as clearly not nearly enough kids are entering the trades.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2023, 02:41:35 PM
My daughter worked at Home Depot for a few months, she learned a LOT of stuff, basic electrical, dry walling, etc.  She's now quite handy.  She liked working there, then she got a "real job" as it were.  She's doing handsomely now.

Maybe instead of trade school we could sentence young folks to work at HD/Loews for a summer.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 24, 2023, 03:34:17 PM
I did spend a few weeks one summer in college working Ace Hardware by day and loading UPS trucks at night, until I got an internship lined up. 

At Ace, it was split between old retired guys and young deadbeats. I hung out with the old guys. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2023, 03:37:13 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/KMGUL4E.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 24, 2023, 09:39:56 PM
When football was played by men...

At Municipal, Otto Graham races along the sideline wearing a pair of Keds while his blocker rakes the eyes of his pursuer


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/355081699_6416740731746928_1876473094384088189_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=Ywuk2y2qrXEAX-M-AKH&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCN_V9544-bDD7fc7gcJHy5V0EY3egM-Qhw1O--7valAA&oe=649D5E28)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 24, 2023, 09:52:28 PM
One of the Greatest venues EVER saw over a hundred games there. Joe Turkey Jones almost break Bradshaw's neck. Lenny Barker's perfect Game. Browns beat the Cowboys on Monday Nite in '79,Squeelers beat them later the same season for the Super Bowl. One brother home on leave saw the 1st Monday Night Football Game in '70  Browns dumping defending NFL Champion Joe Willie Namath's Jets. Another brother was at the 10 Cent Beerr Nite Brawl with the Rangers - Good Times
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 24, 2023, 10:21:31 PM
One of the Greatest venues EVER saw over a hundred games there. Joe Turkey Jones almost break Bradshaw's neck. Lenny Barker's perfect Game. Browns beat the Cowboys on Monday Nite in '79,Squeelers beat them later the same season for the Super Bowl. One brother home on leave saw the 1st Monday Night Football Game in '70  Browns dumping defending NFL Champion Joe Willie Namath's Jets. Another brother was at the 10 Cent Beerr Nite Brawl with the Rangers - Good Times
loved it
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2023, 06:13:21 AM
The Georgia General Assembly chartered the Western & Atlantic Railroad by a vote in 1836. Known as “The State Road,” the W&A was owned and operated by the state. They selected Colonel Stephen H. Long to survey the route the railroad would take. Construction began in March 1838. The 137-mile-long railroad connected Terminus, Georgia (later renamed Marthasville, then Atlanta), with Chattanooga and the Tennessee River. It took 13 years to construct the W&A, costing four million dollars. The tunnel construction through Chetoogeta Mountain was the final piece of construction in completing the rail line.




(https://i.imgur.com/Dy6kkHM.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2023, 06:27:06 AM
Those railroad lines still exist (mostly) under downtown.  Parts of them are exposed, for now, near MB stadium in  an area called "The Gulch" but are about to be covered up.

In city history, the lines were considered a major nuisance, which is odd considered the city only exists because of them.  The terrain is such that the first line could be managed to the north (Chattanooga) with some effort, and then east-west lines were built in hilly terrain, then a line to the northeast also in hills.  There were some lines built up to the mountains to the north but not through them as they get rather large.

Lewis Grizzard once said Atlanta was a city completely surrounded by an airport.  A second airport had been suggested ca. 1970 but of course never happened.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 25, 2023, 07:12:07 AM
If I could go back to 1920, instead of becoming the richest man in the world, I'd probably get locked up.

I try to give Lowe's a chance, but they never seem to be useful, so it's Home Depot by default.

Would you guys make the trade-off to have single-platoon football again, sacrificing the better quality of play with 2-platoon?  I don't know why, but having the same 11 guys (plus backups) have to be decent on both sides of the ball is appealing.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on June 25, 2023, 07:15:26 AM
Tom Brady was the best QB ever, but I think he'd obviously be a net negative at safety or LB. 
Come to think of it, if football remained 1-platoon, it would have hastened the athletic (largely black) QB becoming the norm.  Not necessarily with Warren Moon, but Randall Cunningham (plus he punted!) and maybe a Rodney Peete would have been serviceable on D.  McNair, Culpepper.....idk, imagine Montana or Marino trying to play defense, even f they grew up doing it.  Once you get to Vick, he'd be a plus on both sides of the ball (I assume).

It would have been interesting.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 25, 2023, 08:03:47 AM
well, no one wants to see the QB injured on defense or special teams, so more than 16 or 17 on the roster is a must

having an athletic QB and/or players at any position is a plus

traveling roster of 70 or 74 is maybe too many

if the roster size was 40, perhaps you'd see more players going two ways




























Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 25, 2023, 08:04:06 AM
FACT OF THE DAY:

In 1916, there was a proposed Amendment to the U.S. Constitution that would put all acts of war to a national vote. Anyone voting "yes" would have to register as a volunteer for service in the army. Provided by Huffington Post
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 25, 2023, 08:09:04 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Custer Dies at the Battle of the Little Bighorn (1876)
Popularly known as "Custer's Last Stand," the Battle of the Little Bighorn occurred during the US government's campaign to force the Cheyenne and Sioux onto reservations using federal troops. Upon encountering a large encampment of the tribes, General George Custer launched an early attack with a party of approximately 200 soldiers. The troops were annihilated by the vastly larger force, and Custer himself was killed during the battle along with two of his brothers.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 25, 2023, 08:24:26 AM
For the 1964 season, rule changes allowed schools to return to two platoon football. When Coach Bob Devaney broke out his offensive and defensive squads, he wanted a way to tell them apart.  As the legend goes, assistant coach Mike Corgan was sent out to a local sporting goods store to get some new practice jerseys.  The store owner had some black jerseys that weren’t selling.  He cut Corgan a deal and the new jerseys were issued to the first string defenders.

Mike Kennedy was one of the very first Blackshirts, starting the first game after the practice jerseys debuted.  He went on to earn All-Big 8 honors as a linebacker the following year.


#69

(https://www.huskermatwitter.com/games/1965/team_right_final.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 26, 2023, 07:16:02 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Pied Piper Abducts the Children of Hamelin (1284)
According to a centuries-old legend set in Hamelin, Germany, the Pied Piper was hired by local residents in 1284 to rid the town of rats, which he did by charming them with music and leading them to the river to drown. When the citizens refused to pay him the agreed upon price, he exacted his revenge by charming away their children. Famous versions of the legend were immortalized by Goethe, Robert Browning, and the Brothers Grimm.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 26, 2023, 11:12:14 AM
Tom Brady was the best QB ever, but I think he'd obviously be a net negative at safety or LB. 
Come to think of it, if football remained 1-platoon, it would have hastened the athletic (largely black) QB becoming the norm.  Not necessarily with Warren Moon, but Randall Cunningham (plus he punted!) and maybe a Rodney Peete would have been serviceable on D.  McNair, Culpepper.....idk, imagine Montana or Marino trying to play defense, even f they grew up doing it.  Once you get to Vick, he'd be a plus on both sides of the ball (I assume).

It would have been interesting.
A couple of thoughts:
First, there has been a massive revolution in the athletic quality of big-time college football players. Back in 1964 I would guess that you'd be able to find random non-athlete guys on campus who could compete reasonably well with the football players. Today that is not the case AT ALL.

Specialization starts at a VERY young age and the workout programs are extreme.

The position most impacted by the above is obviously QB. The rest all have rough Offensive/Defensive equivalents:
The biggest problem with the above is that the numbers don't quite work out but you could make it work, for example, by having your biggest linebacker play O-line and your biggest DB play linebacker or some such.

QB's are a different thing altogether. Brains, accuracy, and arm strength are the chief requirements for the position with athletic ability completely secondary in most cases.

I have no idea where a Brady/Montana/Marino would fit on an NFL defense. It seems like they'd be more likely to get in the way than to contribute meaningfully.

I think the suggestion above that you would see a lot more athletic QB's and option-type offenses is correct.

I think you'd HAVE to have an athletic QB because wasting 1/11 of your D would be too big of a liability. But that would mean that QB quality would decline so you would see teams run more and throw less.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 26, 2023, 10:06:00 PM
The cat paw shot gun

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/354627638_647567144068303_2125517979917909906_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=U2VKB39s_KAAX8Vn375&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBrYZ8PdVipNX8DAB1BcFspbbQZkm2wdA9qPquvTrqvoA&oe=649FAD81)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 27, 2023, 07:10:02 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Latter-Day Saints Founder Joseph Smith Murdered (1844)
Smith was the founder of the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-day Saints. He established his first church in New York but was forced to move his headquarters to Ohio, Missouri, and then Illinois. In 1844, he announced his candidacy for the presidency of the US, but he was imprisoned for treason after his efforts to silence Mormon dissenters led to mob violence. While in jail, Smith and his brother were murdered by a mob.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 27, 2023, 09:34:15 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/SIJP2HS.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 27, 2023, 09:46:42 AM
the babe had a large head
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 27, 2023, 12:17:13 PM
27 Jun 1941

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 27, 2023, 12:52:53 PM
One of the original State of Ohio maps.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/355669556_253071707346221_3296567614517535087_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=3JeurhKBlbIAX_HHUue&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBeOk4AaiynqDQlfv2TR_-ZX9QxfbAoRFA-6_mSZc1kMQ&oe=64A060AA)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 27, 2023, 01:21:27 PM
All Guts, No Glory for the Escort Carriers | Air & Space Magazine| Smithsonian Magazine (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/air-space-magazine/all-guts-no-glory-6028074/)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 27, 2023, 02:12:05 PM
All Guts, No Glory for the Escort Carriers | Air & Space Magazine| Smithsonian Magazine (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/air-space-magazine/all-guts-no-glory-6028074/)
The gallows humor of those guys always amazes me. In that article one of the Escort Carrier crewmen stated that their CVE moniker stood for Combustible, Vulnerable, and Expendable. 

I used to work with a WWII Vet who drove an LST. LST stood for Landing Ship Tank and they were so named because they delivered tanks to the beach. He said, however, that it "really" stood for Large Stationary Target.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 27, 2023, 02:33:02 PM
The First Chinese Restaurant in America Has a Savory—and Unsavory—History | Arts & Culture| Smithsonian Magazine
The First Chinese Restaurant in America Has a Savory—and Unsavory—History | Arts & Culture| Smithsonian Magazine (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/history-first-chinese-restaurant-in-america-180980552/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_term=6272023&utm_content=archival&fbclid=IwAR1xLQ6Stae-ojgfZNA0ZJWSE-Wm_yxdVPgFq2-rYLZd3xfJ7ZA-ZBn9w8U)

The oldest continuously operated Chinese restaurant in America is not in San Francisco or New York, but in Butte, Montana, where 47-year-old Jerry Tam, the great-great-grandson of the original owner, presides over the Pekin Noodle Parlor (https://www.facebook.com/pekinnoodleparlor/). Standing on South Main Street outside the weathered two-story brick building, with its display window of antique Chinese cooking equipment, Tam describes the Pekin as a “walk back in time”—one that illuminates the often-overlooked history of the Chinese population in Montana.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 27, 2023, 03:53:45 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/V06B4wK.png)

Some unknown dude and some plane...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 27, 2023, 04:06:54 PM
Some weird dude and some weird plane...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 27, 2023, 08:49:36 PM
Two sisters, Florence and Susie Friermuth arrested for moonshining during the Prohibition, 1921.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/353668500_663349799171942_5175311779884116539_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=ZLZlR-9BhVoAX8VWHCb&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCa4-Gc_9e_p3zKAn-PjF_S5Zy7wihOpXU_obNLq8Igkw&oe=649FC6B3)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 27, 2023, 08:58:57 PM
Framed by the Chief War Eagle Monument, A KC-135 tanker flown by the 185th Air Refueling Wing of the Iowa Air National Guard flies in a refueling formation with an F-16 fighter from Sioux Falls' 114th Fighter Wing Tuesday morning. The flight was flown to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the first air refueling. 185th Air Refueling Wing

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/356848094_669529045187893_4617547302124298151_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=AHkhI37s08oAX-B-rB8&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDbfR7Omb-ETuPtdfvWX0b3mhFmNH4Yrykmdee3La1Rrw&oe=649FF987)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 28, 2023, 04:51:20 AM
28 Jun 1914
28 Jun 1919

France

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 28, 2023, 07:42:56 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/RhUimMS.png)

From 1959, I-85 in Atlanta, I got a kick out of the exit sign.  Same view today:

(https://i.imgur.com/mtyOigA.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 28, 2023, 07:54:40 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Austrian Archduke Franz Ferdinand Assassinated (1914)
Nephew of Francis Joseph, emperor of Austria and king of Hungary, Ferdinand became heir apparent in 1896. While visiting Sarajevo, he and his wife were assassinated by Serbian nationalist Gavrilo Princip. Austria soon declared war on Serbia, prompting countries allied with Austria-Hungary—the Central Powers—and those allied with Serbia—the Triple Entente—to declare war on each other, precipitating WWI. The assassination was not the first attempt on his life.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 28, 2023, 07:57:41 AM
"The Guns of August", highly recommended book.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 28, 2023, 08:24:01 AM
The Battle of Hobkirk Hill (or Hobkirk’s Hill), sometimes referred to as the Second Battle of Camden, remains one of the less prominent engagements of the Revolutionary War, even as John Buchanan’s masterful study of the campaign in the Deep South terms it “a major and controversial battle” in the American effort to reclaim South Carolina and Georgia from British control.[1] It was fought in the backcountry of South Carolina, just north of the village of Camden, on April 25, 1781, near the site of the first Battle of Camden fought on August 16, 1780. The latter proved to be a humiliating debacle for the insurgent forces in their conflict with Great Britain and especially embarrassing for a disgraced Maj. Gen. Horatio Gates, who with the militia fled 180 miles northward to Hillsborough, North Carolina, where he waited for the Continental regulars he had abandoned to show up. On December 3, Gates yielded command of the Southern Department of the Continental Army to thirty-eight-year-old Maj. Gen. Nathanael Greene, the fifth major general to occupy that position—after Charles Lee, Robert Howe, Benjamin Lincoln, and Gates.

https://allthingsliberty.com/2023/06/hobkirk-hill-a-major-minor-battle/ (https://allthingsliberty.com/2023/06/hobkirk-hill-a-major-minor-battle/)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2023, 10:45:26 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/9sAbrQH.png)

This building is still there, but not for long.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 30, 2023, 11:51:19 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Einstein Introduces Special Relativity (1905)
In physics, the theory of special relativity generalizes Galileo's principle of relativity—that all uniform motion is relative and that there is no absolute state of rest. Though physicists Hendrik Lorentz and Henri Poincaré had made contributions to the theory already, Einstein provided a radically new interpretation in his 1905 paper "On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies." In it, Einstein redefines the concepts of space and time and abolishes the concept of "aether,"
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 30, 2023, 12:34:36 PM
"The Guns of August", highly recommended book.
Agreed, great book!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 01, 2023, 01:16:00 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (1968)
The Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons is an international agreement to limit the spread of nuclear weapons. It was originally signed by the US, Britain, the USSR, and 59 other countries in 1968. The major signatories agreed not to help nonnuclear states obtain or produce nuclear weapons, while the nonnuclear signatories agreed not to try to obtain them. The treaty was extended indefinitely in 1995, and nearly 190 countries are now party to it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 01, 2023, 06:03:05 AM
1909 ...

(https://i.imgur.com/ZOswaOy.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 01, 2023, 07:14:30 AM
1995 - DJ Wolfman Jack

DJ Wolfman Jack died of a heart attack. He was the master of ceremonies for the rock 'n' roll generation of the '60s on radio, and later on television during the '70s.

1979 - The Sony Walkman

Sony introduced the Walkman, the first portable audio cassette player. Over the next 30 years they sold over 385 million Walkmans in cassette, CD, mini-disc and digital file versions, and were the market leaders until the arrival of Apple's iPod and other new digital devices.

Germany

British Western Pacific Territories

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 03, 2023, 09:59:54 PM
The Livermore Centennial Light Bulb, at Firestation #6, Livermore, California, USA, has been burning since its installation in 1901. By 2010, the hand-blown bulb has operated at about 4 watts and has remained 24 hours a day to provide night illumination of the fire engines. There was only one break in its operation when it was removed from one fire station and fitted.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 04, 2023, 08:06:21 AM
There were no fireworks on July 4, 1776. However, the first Fourth of July fireworks began in 1777 as they lit Philadelphia's night sky. The Pennsylvania Evening Post wrote this of the celebration: "The evening was closed with the ring of bells, and at night there was a grand exhibition of fireworks (which began and concluded with thirteen rockets) on the Commons, and the city was beautifully illuminated."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 04, 2023, 10:04:57 AM
Happy Independence Day you treasonous Bastards - celebrate the 4th with a Fifth

(https://i.imgur.com/Mo2RSN8.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 04, 2023, 09:40:56 PM


On this day in Sioux City history: Sioux City’s first professional baseball team, the Sioux City Cornhuskers, had their first game in Des Moines on July 4, 1888. Dubbed in the papers as “the Corn Huskers from the Corn Palace City,” the Cornhuskers were part of the Class A Western League, playing one level below the majors. The team played their home games at Evans Driving Park near modern-day Crescent Park. The Sioux City team lost both rounds of the double-header but still made an impressive showing. They would go on to win two Western League Pennants (1891 and 1894) before the franchise was sold and moved to St. Paul, MN. Later the team moved to Chicago’s south side where they became the Chicago White Stockings, renamed the Chicago White Sox in 1904. These photos are from 1891.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/356685929_654936443320111_4858672054190311843_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=YImDOG5VHcgAX_L62Hj&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfABNfxRZXXnwSmKue3Ys2mS5V7A6NXppc-EaduBy48D5A&oe=64A92D80)

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/357028304_654936526653436_3223652017617383062_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Ml-vMdp5gvUAX9mn3RV&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBxHS9xkp-c9BvTy6gw2NoSReaBVa2g3BRRF-jdcZTocg&oe=64A954CA)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 05, 2023, 08:12:50 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

SPAM Introduced into the Market (1937)
Introduced in 1937 by the Hormel Foods Corporation as "Hormel Spiced Ham," the precooked, canned-meat product was renamed "SPAM" when it began to lose market share. SPAM is now popular worldwide and is sold in more than 40 countries, including South Korea, where it is said to be so popular that it is sometimes given as a gift. The product has become a part of pop culture as the butt of many jokes and urban legends about mystery meat.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 05, 2023, 11:38:41 AM


(https://i.imgur.com/rwYUEsf.jpg)

Roster doesn't look to deep - must have been a lot of multi tasking going on
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 05, 2023, 12:02:38 PM
pitchers had to hit and play the field back then
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 06, 2023, 08:25:36 AM
Until 1948, 7-Up contained "lithium citrate," a mood stabilizer used to treat bipolar disorder.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 06, 2023, 11:42:45 AM
Damn didn't Coca~Cola have traces of well you know?Damn gubermit trying to manipulate the masses
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2023, 11:34:52 AM
Leroy Robert "Satchel" Paige was born  on July 7, 1906, in Mobile, Alabama. Though many speculate it may have been more like 1903.
According to Paige, his mother sent him to earn money carrying luggage for businessmen at the train station, but he was frustrated with the little money it paid. So he rigged a pole to carry several bags at once to make the job pay better, and his co-workers purportedly told him, "You look like a walking satchel tree." And his nickname stuck.
At the age of 42 in 1948, Paige was the oldest major league rookie while playing for the Cleveland Indians. He played with the St. Louis Browns until age 47, and represented them in the All-Star Game in 1952 and 1953. He was the first player who had played in the Negro leagues to pitch in the World Series, in 1948, and was the first electee of the Negro League Committee to be inducted into the National Baseball Hall of Fame in 1971.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2023, 04:20:09 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ZqP9bMt.png)

The $3 billion cost of design and production (equivalent to $49 billion today), far exceeding the $1.9 billion cost of the Manhattan Project, made the B-29 program the most expensive of the war.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2023, 04:35:31 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ZlksUxy.png)

The Northeast Expressway at Piedmont Road in October 1958.

This is pretty near me today.  I hadn't realized it had no median back then.  Some of the concrete in the exit ramps still exists.  This section of ancient freeway was preserved while the new I-85 was built parallel to it.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 09, 2023, 08:58:22 PM
The $3 billion cost of design and production (equivalent to $49 billion today), far exceeding the $1.9 billion cost of the Manhattan Project, made the B-29 program the most expensive of the war.
It took both of course to vaporize Hiroshima and Nagasaki and neither the Germans nor the Japanese had the resources to do either. Modern industrial warfare is ultimately all about economics. You either have the resources or you don't.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 09, 2023, 11:17:05 PM
During the 1925 World Series between the Pittsburgh #Pirates and the Washington Senators, the grounds crew needed to quickly dry the infield before game 7 as it had rained heavily that morning. This was how they “dried” the infield.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/357750785_652475963583894_378939260234041061_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=GBDJ-yD16esAX_GwGJi&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDRREb7akBfzARQm5kGZxgleiNzNKsEAYZfko6B69x1Zw&oe=64B005E2)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 09, 2023, 11:25:20 PM


On this day in Sioux City history: Nearly 50,000 people attended the Mini-Indy race on July 4, 1914. The “Fourth of July Classic” was a 300-mile race with many of the greatest names in the sport. The winner was Eddie Rickenbacher, a somewhat unknown driver. Read the full story at SiouxCityMuseum.org/history-website/sioux-city-mini-indy. #siouxcityhistory


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/357438403_656757846471304_8446854212999269536_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=LHzm5HkPhJEAX8hW-Tj&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfA_eTPyvtprlgUNv4tp1NdFKjpTx90Z3KAsnSYBdoypLQ&oe=64B0589B)

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/357392679_656757856471303_7351151783943334235_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=qYuueOoOxikAX_8zcWY&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCf4Z8NDRlGRHNxd4apRwnIbX6CU-wadWBDUXyjDFpv4A&oe=64AF8D8A)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Temp430 on July 10, 2023, 07:37:34 AM
Interesting.  After racing he went on to be the most decorated US fighter pilot ace in WWI with 26 shootdowns and a Medal of Honor.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 10, 2023, 08:19:31 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/q8VViqU.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 10, 2023, 08:52:22 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/ZlksUxy.png)

The Northeast Expressway at Piedmont Road in October 1958.

This is pretty near me today.  I hadn't realized it had no median back then.  Some of the concrete in the exit ramps still exists.  This section of ancient freeway was preserved while the new I-85 was built parallel to it. 
(https://i.imgur.com/IX1KldW.png)

This shot is looking southbound with the construction of the new freeqay just starting to right.  This is where a portion of the new freeway collapsed a few years back due to a fire under it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 10, 2023, 09:03:35 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Jedwabne Pogrom (1941)
Just a month after Nazi forces overran Poland and began distributing anti-Semitic propaganda there, the non-Jewish residents of the Polish town of Jedwabne took it upon themselves to round up and massacre Jews living in the area, burning hundreds alive. The fact that the Jedwabne Pogrom was not a German death squad operation but was actually "committed directly by Poles" was only recently established by the Polish Institute of National Remembrance.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 10, 2023, 09:33:42 AM
“Thanks to my fortunate idea of introducing the relativity principle into physics, you now enormously overrate my scientific abilities, to the point where this makes me quite uncomfortable.”

― Albert Einstein


I think Albert was the first really famous scientists (outside scientific circles).  He was a global phenom.  The break came when the position of a star that appeared near the Sun during an eclipse was displaced just as his theory of General Relativity had predicted (it also resolved a problem with the apparent orbit of Mercury).  That got publicized and zoom ...

Then the myths sprung up of course.  But by any metric, he was/is one of the greatest.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 10, 2023, 11:09:01 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/c4ypjYi.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 10, 2023, 11:30:13 AM
Kirby may have walked into a better situation than Saban or Dabo
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 11, 2023, 08:25:37 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
The Oka Crisis (1990)
This 1990 confrontation between the Mohawk nation and the town of Oka, Quebec, was the first of several violent conflicts between the First Nations and the Canadian government. It began when developers tried to turn a plot of land into a golf course. Because that land contained a burial ground and sacred pine grove, members of the Mohawk community blockaded the area. Canadian troops were sent in, and a 78-day standoff ensued, ending with the Mohawks' surrender.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 11, 2023, 09:18:05 AM
Kirby may have walked into a better situation than Saban or Dabo
I think you are right.
Georgia's history is about even with Clemson's pre-Dabo. Georgia obviously doesn't have Bama's history but Georgia in general and the Atlanta area specifically have grown incredibly rapidly.

When my dad visited family in Atlanta in the 1940's, Atlanta's population was barely more than Akron's and Georgia’s population of 3.1M was less than half of Ohio's population of 6.9M.

More relevant to the comparison you made, here are the populations of Georgia, South Carolina, and Alabama over time.
2020:
1990:
1960:
1930:

When Alabama was building their brand their state had a population larger than South Carolina and comparable to Georgia. Today Alabama's population is smaller than South Carolina and Georgia’s population is more than AL and SC combined.


That population ultimately contributes to HS talent and also fanbase size.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 11, 2023, 09:59:40 AM
my thought was Mark Richt's last 5 seasons or so were better than the previous few seasons at Clemson or Bama

maybe had better culture and players in the system
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 11, 2023, 10:07:03 AM
UGA is somewhat comparable to Ohio State in that it is the major program in a large state with a LOT of HS football emphasis.  When I was in HS here, football was big, but poorly resourced, and schools now with major programs were even more underfunded because they were out in the boonies.  Yes, it's a good HC job if you work hard and can handle the stress and media and expectations etc.

The striking thing now, to me, is how many players are coming from outside the state and region ...  I guess I can understand why.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 11, 2023, 10:10:40 AM
my thought was Mark Richt's last 5 seasons or so were better than the previous few seasons at Clemson or Bama

maybe had better culture and players in the system
Agreed.

Honestly, at the time I thought Georgia’s decision to fire Richt was incorrect. In retrospect I was obviously wrong. Smart has built a machine there. That said, Richt had already built them up to the point that Smart didn't have all that far to go.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 11, 2023, 10:15:27 AM
The impression was Richt was too soft, folks wanted a hard nose.  And of course the impression was that Richt would continue having 10-3 and 11-2 kinds of seasons.

I read that when Smart arrived, he insisted on making major infrastructure improvements, like the indoor practice field and weight room and locker room etc.  Richt may have been more content with what existed.  Nice guys finish second...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 11, 2023, 06:07:33 PM
Historical Images

Norman Rockwell and the model for Rosie the Riveter, his neighbor and a telephone operator, Mary Doyle Keefe around (1950)


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/358535295_233055333012578_2524079650086466588_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=rsz0DRsceooAX9TGBFp&_nc_oc=AQn469V7bSOP4_FtIaL7igQVMT_w1qxlnS5behoSlRj_nIimWNCjMpHtDV3OnaKs_es&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBI9N8e4eaiErPCgeoIZa8CGmFwuVUz9mMLeXWiWXh-Jw&oe=64B2BA9B)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 11, 2023, 06:15:56 PM
Agreed.

Honestly, at the time I thought Georgia’s decision to fire Richt was incorrect. In retrospect I was obviously wrong. Smart has built a machine there. That said, Richt had already built them up to the point that Smart didn't have all that far to go.
Reminded me of the Buccaneers letting go of Dungy and bringing in Gruden.  Risky, but worked out for them, too.
But it could always be a Solich-to-Callahan outcome.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 11, 2023, 07:07:37 PM
or Pelini to Riley
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 11, 2023, 07:17:49 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/EOeSI02.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2023, 06:10:51 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Alexander Hamilton Dies from Wound Sustained in Duel (1804)
In the presidential election of 1800, a tie between Thomas Jefferson and his running mate, Aaron Burr, left the choice of chief executive to the House of Representatives. Hamilton's influence made Jefferson President and Burr Vice President. In 1804, Hamilton again thwarted Burr in his bid for governorship of New York, and Burr challenged him to a duel. The two men met on July 11, and Hamilton was mortally wounded and died the next day.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2023, 06:17:06 AM
In 1957, Dwight D. Eisenhower became the first sitting president to ride in a helicopter. He traveled in a Bell Ranger as part of a nationwide civil defense exercise. The presidential helicopter has always been called Marine One.

In this June 14, 1957, file photo, the UH-13 Bell Ranger presidential helicopter undergoes a series of practice landings on the White House lawn to familiarize Air Force pilots, Maj. Joseph E. Barrett and Capt. Laurence R. Cummings, with the flight path and landing marks. On July 12, President Eisenhower became the first sitting president to fly in a helicopter.

(https://cdnph.upi.com/svc/sv/upi_com/1101499727838/2017/1/e75f53d3bc975e0b5ff0a829dbbf3b75/On-This-Day-Eisenhower-becomes-first-president-to-ride-in-helicopter.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2023, 06:44:24 AM
Air Force pilots?????
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 12, 2023, 08:07:30 AM
Were you expecting Sub Captains?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2023, 08:52:59 AM
I don't write it.
Just copy & paste
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2023, 08:53:07 AM
Installed in 1410, the world's oldest astronomical clock still in operation is in Prague.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2023, 09:10:05 AM
There was a split back when, the Air Force got fixed wing and the Army got rotary.  I figure "Marine One" would be piloted by, well, Marines, but maybe the Corps didn't operate rotary back then.  Marines of course now do both, and pilot Marine One.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2023, 09:35:21 AM
high school classmate of mine was assigned to Marine One a decade or so ago
kind of a big deal
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 12, 2023, 05:12:01 PM
high school classmate of mine was assigned to Marine One a decade or so ago
kind of a big deal
To give Obama a dutch rub?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2023, 09:48:42 PM
History Nebraska
in 1861, the legend of "Wild Bill" Hickok supposedly began at Rock Creek Station in Jefferson County, Nebraska after the frontiersman killed David McCanles in a dispute.

https://history.nebraska.gov/weird-wednesday-wild-bill.../


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/358699157_662059592629831_210802519562105465_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=TiZDGwVepRsAX_9acSU&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBAm8h4P9yu3Xf6x8j_FBC1wGZzjuNGxWuV6-DSQuXpVQ&oe=64B4CBE6)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Temp430 on July 13, 2023, 07:12:15 AM
Some of these Old West gun fighter characters would be quite at home nowadays in our big cities.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2023, 07:17:05 AM
Some of these Old West gun fighter characters would be quite at home nowadays in our big cities.
Most of what I read about are drive by shootings with 50 rounds fired and 3 people hit, or domestic or drug disputes inside, not really the kind WB would understand very well.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 13, 2023, 09:02:50 AM
Some of these Old West gun fighter characters would be quite at home nowadays in our big cities.
If some of these Old West gun fighters were in the big cities these days, there would be a lot less drive by shootings as those shooters would ultimately be sent to meet their maker. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2023, 09:05:53 AM
Somebody would drive by with a MAC10 and hose them down.

It's a very different kind of battle today of course.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 13, 2023, 09:08:56 AM
To give Obama a dutch rub?
probably Slick Willy and W
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2023, 02:06:48 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/9GnBQ0u.png)

Did you know that modern jet engines can have between 30,000 and 50,000 individual parts, including thousands of rotating and stationary components? The maintenance process can take up to 180 days and cost millions of dollars, but it's crucial to ensure these machines run safely and efficiently. Marvel at the complexity of jet engines!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2023, 09:14:19 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/RCeqUsv.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 15, 2023, 10:59:47 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/OivPKUk.png)

Left to Right for comparison
Massachusetts
Washington
Missouri
Yamato
Bismarck
Rodney
KGV
Hood


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 16, 2023, 09:28:33 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First Test of a Nuclear Weapon (1945)
Called the Trinity test, the first test of a nuclear weapon was conducted by the US in New Mexico on what is now White Sands Missile Range. The detonation of the implosion-design plutonium bomb—the same type used on Nagasaki, Japan, a few weeks later—was equivalent to the explosion of approximately 20 kilotons of TNT, and is usually considered the beginning of the Atomic Age. It is said that the scientists who observed the detonation set up a betting pool on what the result would be.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 16, 2023, 10:43:57 PM
University of Nebraska-Lincoln
  ·
On this day in 1919, the Tractor Test Laboratory opened, helping assuage concerns that the equipment delivered was what the manufacturers promised. Today, nearly all tractors manufactured in the US are tested at the University of Nebraska–Lincoln facility. 📷: UNL Archives & Special Collections


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/360092309_662292752595333_4223497931290297803_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=9zxgp6YPeNcAX9xK-VN&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfB2vjc5FFVgitOz_seov5-_4aNOllQjGIAOOihuxkb7nQ&oe=64BA6911)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2023, 07:24:27 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/TnAWByS.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2023, 07:59:29 AM
Today in History (15 July 1799), the Rosetta Stone was found by a French soldier named Pierre-François Bouchard during Napoleon's Egyptian campaign.
It was discovered in the town of Rashid (Rosetta) in the Nile Delta. The stone is a large slab of black granite, over 2,000 years old, that bears a trilingual inscription dated 197 BC inscribed in Hieroglyphic, Demotic and Greek text.
A major breakthrough in the decipherment of Egyptian hieroglyphs, the Rosetta Stone is on display at the British Museum in London.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 17, 2023, 07:59:59 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

RMS Carpathia Torpedoed by German Submarine (1918)
The RMS Carpathia was a Cunard Line transatlantic passenger steamship that first became famous for rescuing more than 700 survivors of the Titanic disaster in 1912. Six years later, during WWI, the Carpathia was travelling in a convoy when it was torpedoed off the east coast of Ireland by the German submarine U-55. Many of the passengers and crew members were rescued by the HMS Snowdrop the following day.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Temp430 on July 17, 2023, 08:24:25 AM
This day in history:

https://www.history.com/news/romanov-family-murder-execution-reasons (https://www.history.com/news/romanov-family-murder-execution-reasons)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2023, 08:45:45 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/CGFUMZA.png)

In 1921, the great Ty Cobb, at age 34, gets Hit #3,000 off Red Sox Elmer Myers in Game #2,135.  Ty was 2 yrs younger than the next youngest, Hank Aaron (36/2,460) & Robin Yount (36/2,705), to reach that feat.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2023, 08:46:40 AM
It's interesting, to me, how certain numbers get one qualified for the HoF almost automatically (barring roids), 3,000, 300, 500, probably a few others.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 17, 2023, 08:55:17 AM
baseball, as you know, is and has been a numbers game since inception

stats
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2023, 01:12:38 PM
Aogashima Island, Japan.

Aogashima is an active volcano located about 220 miles south of Tokyo in the Pacific Ocean. The island has a population of about 170 people who are living inside the bigger volcano's crater, making it the smallest village in all of Japan. The volcano erupted last time in 1785, killing half of the island's population.



(https://i.imgur.com/6aqUPIT.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2023, 01:24:44 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/5qjniob.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 17, 2023, 01:27:22 PM
Aogashima Island, Japan.

Aogashima is an active volcano located about 220 miles south of Tokyo in the Pacific Ocean. The island has a population of about 170 people who are living inside the bigger volcano's crater, making it the smallest village in all of Japan. The volcano erupted last time in 1785, killing half of the island's population.



(https://i.imgur.com/6aqUPIT.png)

That's almost up there with getting involved in a land war in Asia, going in against a Sicilian when death is on the line, or building a giant metropolis in the desert US Southwest. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 18, 2023, 07:09:10 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

San Ysidro McDonald's Massacre (1984)
The deadliest shooting spree in US history at the time, the San Ysidro McDonald's Massacre took place at a McDonald's restaurant in San Diego, California, and resulted in 21 deaths and 19 injuries. It was carried out by James Oliver Huberty, who had moved to the area just six months earlier and recently lost his job. The 77-minute massacre ended when Huberty was fatally shot by a sniper. Later that year, McDonald's razed the building where the killings had occurred.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 18, 2023, 08:47:35 AM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/321343043_713198583543027_1725626929462009782_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=7uPomHV2sRAAX8aN84X&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBPY3QXDHjAk3RlUPUlk8V1lTJqtc0b-y2SOl-2SbMCWA&oe=64BBB42B)

The "Universe 25" experiment is one of the most terrifying experiments in the history of science, which, through the behavior of a colony of mice, is an attempt by scientists to explain human societies. The idea of "Universe 25" Came from the American scientist John Calhoun, who created an "ideal world" in which hundreds of mice would live and reproduce. More specifically, Calhoun built the so-called "Paradise of Mice", a specially designed space where rodents had Abundance of food and water, as well as a large living space. In the beginning, he placed four pairs of mice that in a short time began to reproduce, resulting in their population growing rapidly. However, after 315 days their reproduction began to decrease significantly. When the number of rodents reached 600, a hierarchy was formed between them and then the so-called "wretches" appeared. The larger rodents began to attack the group, with the result that many males begin to "collapse" psychologically. As a result, the females did not protect themselves and in turn became aggressive towards their young. As time went on, the females showed more and more aggressive behavior, isolation elements and lack of reproductive mood. There was a low birth rate and, at the same time, an increase in mortality in younger rodents. Then, a new class of male rodents appeared, the so-called "beautiful mice". They refused to mate with the females or to "fight" for their space. All they cared about was food and sleep. At one point, "beautiful males" and "isolated females" made up the majority of the population.
According to Calhoun, the death phase consisted of two stages: the "first death" and "second death." The former was characterized by the loss of purpose in life beyond mere existence — no desire to mate, raise young or establish a role within society. As time went on, juvenile mortality reached 100% and reproduction reached zero. Among the endangered mice, homosexuality was observed and, at the same time, cannibalism increased, despite the fact that there was plenty of food. Two years after the start of the experiment, the last baby of the colony was born. By 1973, he had killed the last mouse in the Universe 25. John Calhoun repeated the same experiment 25 more times, and each time the result was the same.
Calhoun's scientific work has been used as a model for interpreting social collapse, and his research serves as a focal point for the study of urban sociology.
We are currently witnessing direct parallels in today’s society..weak, feminized men with little to no skills and no protection instincts, and overly agitated and aggressive females with no maternal instincts.


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/321249973_929922411255432_6121395710441058976_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=qy1Rkbsa9zQAX_7PCgq&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCkXc74UTEP1kkbIBoVHOO1kkpDz6-UIPZSniqv2A7b6Q&oe=64BB2F2B)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2023, 08:32:07 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Samuel Colt (1814)
Colt patented his revolving-breech pistol in 1836, but the six-shooter was slow to gain acceptance, and his company failed in 1842. However, a US government order for 1,000 pistols during the Mexican War allowed Colt to resume its manufacture in 1847. Colt advanced the development of interchangeable parts and the assembly line, and his revolvers, including the famous Colt .45, became so popular that the word "Colt" was sometimes used as a generic term for any revolver.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 19, 2023, 08:33:13 AM
... or malt liquor ...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2023, 08:38:31 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Battle of Peachtree Creek (1864)
In the spring of 1864 during the American Civil War, Union General William T. Sherman began preparing his troops for their first major attack on the defenses of Atlanta, Georgia. Just days after taking command of a Confederate army in that area, General John Bell Hood unsuccessfully attacked Sherman's troops as they crossed the nearby Peachtree Creek. Most historians consider the attack a grave error, as the Union troops routed Hood's army.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 10:25:34 AM
We have a bunch of historical markers around us dealing with this brigade or that moved by here on this date.  The creek is north of us a few miles and Hood's idea was to catch the Union army partly across it, but getting troops in place in the heat and with the heavily wooded areas was not possible.  So the attack was piecemeal and Sherman pretty much expected it.  This was followed by the main part of the Battle of Atlanta a bit south of us, shown in the Cyclorama, which is interesting to see.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 20, 2023, 10:28:37 AM
On July 20, 1944, Adolf Hitler and senior Nazi military officers met at the Wolf’s Lair in Rastenburg, Eastern Prussia. As the Nazi military leaders took their seats to discuss troop movements on the Eastern Front, an explosion ripped through the humid conference room — and, through the thick black smoke, Hitler’s body was seen strewn across the table. The Führer was dead, and Europe was potentially freed from the Nazi scourge. Or so it initially seemed.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2023, 12:34:16 PM

Friday July 20 will mark the 50th anniversary of a "giant step for mankind." On-board the historic Apollo 11 space capsule, was a slice of Nebraska innovation that few people know about.

"This was a kidding term that we really never publicized to call it 'Nebraska Space Bread,'" said retired University of Nebraska Food Science and Technology professor Ted Hartung.


Yes, bread in space. It was something that had never been done before. Old NASA archive film footage shows astronaut Buzz Aldrin putting jam on a slice inside the command module.

It was a handful of researchers including Hartung who made it possible.

"Yeah, basically the end of '68 was really the initial talk about could this be used," Hartung said.

Hartung had just named head of the new Food Science and Technology Department when he was contacted by NASA.

The space program wanted something other than freeze dried meals or food in a tube for its astronauts.

"The idea of getting something more, quote, like home-like with the possibility of bread being developed," Hartung said.

NASA had heard about the research done by UN-L professor Burt Maxcy irradiating meat to extend its shelf life.

NASA also knew, that, thanks to U.S. Sen. Carl Curtis, the university had a Navy Cobalt 60 irradiator.

"We could see food safety, and shelf life applications of irradiation. So that excited us to join NASA," Hartung said.

And join the race to space.

Bread was shipped in daily. The team, which included Maxcy, Hartung and Lloyd Bullerman, put the bread into plastic bags supplied by NASA. It was irradiated and then sent to Houston.

"Everything happened so very fast. And that was on the must-do list. To get that set up and going," Hartung said.

On July 16, 1969, Apollo 11 launched from Kennedy Space Center, Florida.

"As the mission was unfolding we were keeping briefed on how it was going," Hartung said.

The UN-L researchers were even given the astronauts daily menu.

"It was an amazing thing to think here was man and now here he was about to land on the moon," Hartung said.

Hartung remembers watching the historic event broadcast live July 20, 1969.

"We wondered in the lunar module if they took any slice of bread with them," Hartung said.

The bread was a success and used on all the Apollo and Skylab missions. It also propelled the university's fledgling program to takeoff.

The department now has more than 35 faculty and moved to a state-of-the-art facility on innovation campus.

"There's an expression that science is built on the shoulders of giants," said UN-L food microbiologist, Robert Hutkins.

Hutkins said UN-L rates with some of the top food science programs in the world.

"It think we are right up there. Nebraskans are always rather humble," Hutkins said.

He did a little research on the university's role in the space program.

"I'll be darned, I looked up some studies; funded by NASA, funded by the Army, funded by the Atomic Energy Commission. I thought, we were right there at the very beginning," Hutkins said.

One reminder of that research is on display in one of the labs. Grain in glass jars from 50 years ago. Non-irradiated corn now bluish-gray and moldy.

"The one that has been irradiated, you can't even tell it's 50 years old," said UN-L microbiologist," Andreia Bianchini.

Assistant professor of practice, Heather Hallen-Adams said many inventions and food safety practices used today came out of the space program.

"If you have food poisoning in space, you can't run to a doctor, you can't run home. If the food is bad, you're stuck with the bad food. It is a zero tolerance situation," Hallen-Adams said.

So sending bread in space was quite a feat.

"It was really kind of a great boost to have that kind of quality relationship from NASA," Hartung said.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 20, 2023, 01:22:29 PM
A slice of Wapakoneta, OHIO was there in the form of Neil Armstrong
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 04:30:09 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/k0PWfQ4.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2023, 06:04:30 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/3TWwwO8.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2023, 06:12:44 PM
apparently, back in the day, it was OK to shoot dolphins
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 20, 2023, 09:11:42 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

First Test of a Nuclear Weapon (1945)
Called the Trinity test, the first test of a nuclear weapon was conducted by the US in New Mexico on what is now White Sands Missile Range. The detonation of the implosion-design plutonium bomb—the same type used on Nagasaki, Japan, a few weeks later—was equivalent to the explosion of approximately 20 kilotons of TNT, and is usually considered the beginning of the Atomic Age. It is said that the scientists who observed the detonation set up a betting pool on what the result would be.
The test site, Trinity, is open to the public twice a year, on the first Saturday in (I think) March and October. It is fascinating to see. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Temp430 on July 21, 2023, 07:49:18 AM
The test site, Trinity, is open to the public twice a year, on the first Saturday in (I think) March and October. It is fascinating to see.
I have a piece of trinitite from my visit many years ago,
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2023, 07:58:59 AM
apparently, back in the day, it was OK to shoot dolphins
Only if you are a man, and from UNCLE.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 21, 2023, 08:26:37 PM
Today in History: July 21, guilty verdict in Scopes “Monkey Trial”

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 22, 2023, 07:44:34 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/07Rh8Of.png)

1871, Rome, looks rural.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 22, 2023, 08:39:07 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Wiley Post Becomes First Pilot to Circumnavigate the Globe Solo (1933)
In 1931, American aviator Wiley Post flew around the world with navigator Harold Gatty in 8 days, 15 hours, and 51 minutes, breaking the previous record of 21 days. They published an account of their trip in Around the World in Eight Days. Two years later, Post became the first person to fly around the world alone, a feat he completed in just 7 days and 19 hours. Post died in 1935 when his plane crashed in Alaska
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 22, 2023, 08:48:29 AM
World War II Today: July 22
/
1939
Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini sign “Pact of Steel” forming the Axis powers.
1940
British cipher experts at Bletchley Park break the Luftwaffe Enigma code.



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 22, 2023, 08:50:54 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/SPxCpWk.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 22, 2023, 08:53:59 AM
1940
British cipher experts at Bletchley Park break the Luftwaffe Enigma code.




kinda big deal
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 22, 2023, 10:20:15 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/plRRVwv.png)

1939.  The poor back then were really really poor.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 22, 2023, 02:39:42 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/SPxCpWk.png)
Jeebis that's a worse idea than electric cars but unlike now they realized it
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 22, 2023, 03:30:49 PM
[img width=367.99 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/plRRVwv.png[/img]

1939.  The poor back then were really really poor.
yup, fighting for food
doesn't seem to be that bad today
I hope it's not
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 23, 2023, 08:05:31 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

12th Street Riot Begins (1967)
In 1967, racial tensions spurred by high unemployment rates and poor housing conditions in Detroit exploded when police officers raided a speakeasy on the corner of 12th Street and Clairmount. The confrontation with the patrons developed into one of the deadliest and most destructive riots in modern US history, lasting five days and resulting in 43 deaths, 467 injuries, more than 7,200 arrests, and the destruction of more than 2,000 buildings.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 23, 2023, 04:50:18 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/0M5xctz.png)
U.S. General Ulysses S. Grant (https://www.britannica.com/biography/Ulysses-S-Grant), who commanded the Union armies to victory in the American Civil War (https://www.britannica.com/event/American-Civil-War) and later served as the 18th president of the United States (https://www.britannica.com/topic/presidency-of-the-United-States-of-America), died at the age of 63.

1995
Two astronomers, Alan Hale in New Mexico and Thomas Bopp in Arizona, almost simultaneously discover a comet.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 24, 2023, 07:12:31 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Nixon and Khrushchev Engage in "Kitchen Debate" (1959)
The Kitchen Debate was an impromptu debate—conducted through interpreters—between US Vice President Richard Nixon and Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev at the opening of the American National Exhibition in Moscow in 1959. Centering on a discussion of the merits of capitalism versus communism, it took place in the kitchen of a model suburban American house designed to showcase American household appliances, which Nixon touted as examples of American innovation.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 24, 2023, 07:17:39 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Calogero Vizzini (1877)
Vizzini, don of the village of Villalba, was one of the most influential Mafia bosses of Sicily following WWII. After the war, the staunch anti-communist was made mayor of Villalba by the Allied occupiers, a move that some might say adds credence to claims that Allied Forces enlisted direct Mafia support during their invasion of Sicily in 1943. Between 1949 and 1954, Vizzini reportedly ruled a lucrative black market operation,
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 25, 2023, 01:00:55 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/OivPKUk.png)
Left to Right for comparison
Massachusetts
Washington
Missouri
Yamato
Bismarck
Rodney
KGV
Hood
I've been meaning to come back to this to give context to @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) 's post and forgot about it so here it goes now.  

Massachusetts was a South Dakota Class Battleship of the USN.  The SoDak's were the second-to-last class of BB's completed by the United States.  The four ships (South Dakota BB57, Indiana BB58, Massachusetts BB59, and Alabama BB60) were built between 1939-1942 and when they were commissioned in 1942 (all four) they were the USN's most powerful BB's and some of the most powerful in the world.  They had 9x16" main guns and a plethora of smaller guns for close-in and AA defense.  Massachusetts and Alabama are preserved as museums in their namesake states.  SoDak and Indiana were scrapped.  

Washington was a North Carolina Class Battleship of the USN.  They were the immediate predecessors of the aforementioned SoDak class and thus were the third-to-last class of BB's completed by the United States.  The two ships (North Carolina BB55 and Washington BB56) were built between 1937-1941 with both being commissioned in the summer of 1941.  Thus, they were the USN's newest and most powerful battleships when the US entered WWII.  They had 9x16" main guns and a plethora of smaller guns for close-in and AA defense.  They were somewhat less well protected than the SoDak's.  North Carolina is preserved as a museum in it's namesake state, Washington was scrapped.  

Missouri was an Iowa Class Battleship of the USN.  They were the final class of BB's completed by the United States.  The four completed ships (Iowa BB61, New Jersey BB62, Missouri BB63, and Wisconsin BB64) were built between 1940-1944 and entered the fight toward the end of WWII.  Thus, they were the newest and most powerful battleships in the US Fleet.  They had 9x16" main guns and a plethora of smaller guns for close-in and AA defense.  Their primary improvement over the preceding SoDak class was that the Iowa's were faster.  The SoDak's and N. Carolina's could only obtain about 28 knots while the Iowa's could make 33 knots.  This 5kn improvement came at an IMMENSE cost because (engineers here can explain better than me) adding speed becomes exponentially more difficult so I think the Iowa's had to have something like 2.5x the power to go a mere 5kn faster.  In any case the increase was important for many reasons including:

All four are preserved as museums.  Iowa is in LA, New Jersey is across the river from Philly, Missouri is in Pearl Harbor (the USN put it there overlooking the USS Arizona Memorial which is a powerful statement if you think about it), and Wisconsin is Norfolk, VA.  

The original intention of the USN was to follow-up the Iowa class with a class of larger and more powerful but somewhat slower Battleships called the Montana Class.  Those ships were designed with 12x16" main guns, heavier armor than the Iowa's, and more secondary guns.  However, wartime experience showed that the age of the Battleship was effectively over and to the extent that BB's were needed at all, they were needed as carrier escorts which the slower Montana's couldn't do.  Thus, two of the Montana's were reordered as Iowa's and became the Illinois BB65 and Kentucky BB66.  These last two Iowa's were cancelled when it became apparent that they were surplus to wartime needs and eventually scrapped although one of them (I forget which) had it's bow removed and used to repair one of the completed ships.  

You may have noticed in the picture that all three USN Battleships appear to be the same width.  They are almost exactly the same width.  The width was determined by the locks of the Panama Canal.  All three pictured USN BB's are just narrow enough that they and two coats of wax can fit through the Panama Canal.  

Yamato was a Yamato Class Battleship of the IJN (Imperial Japanese Navy).  The Yamato's were the largest class of BB's ever completed.  The two ships (Yamato and Mushashi, a third was converted to an aircraft carrier part way through construction) were built in the run-up to and early part of WWII and they were the most powerful BB's in the IJN and arguably the world.  (Iowa's have an argument because while they had smaller guns and thinner armor their guns and armor were better pound-for-pound so it is a hotly debated topic).  They had 9x18.1" main guns and a plethora of smaller guns for close-in and AA defense.  


Bismark was a Bismark Class Battleship of the KM (Kriegsmarine, sp?).  The Bismarks were the largest class of BB's ever completed by a European power.  The two ships (Bismark and Tirpitz) were built by Nazi Germany in the run-up to WWII.  Bismark famously sank the Hood (see below) and was in turn sunk by nearly the entire British Fleet including one of the Nelrods and one of the KGV's (see below).  They had 8x15" guns and could obtain about 30kn.  Tirpitz was tucked away in a Norwegian Fjord where it effectively tied up a half-dozen British and US Battleships by just being a "Fleet in being" that the RN and USN were compelled to remain prepared to fight.  Eventually the British managed to sink it with aerial bombs and it's hulk has provided a massive amount of low background steel for various applications in which background radiation is a problem.  Bismark was sunk in the North Atlantic while unsuccessfully trying to get close enough to occupied France to acquire German air cover after the Battle of the Denmark Straight in which she had sunk the Hood.  

Rodney was a Nelson Class Battleship of the RN.  The Nelson's were the only class of British BB's completed between the pre-WWI designed Revenge Class and the immediate run-up to WWII.  They were built under the restrictions of the Washington Naval Treaty and were odd ships due to measures taken to comply.  They had 9x16" guns but could only obtain 23 kn because speed was severely limited by the necessity to keep the powerplant light enough that the ship could meet the treaty limit.  The immediately visible unusual feature is that the three main turrets are all located forward of the bridge.  This was done to minimize the size (and thus weight) of the armored citadel.  

King George the Fifth (KGV) was a KGV Class Battleship of the RN.  The KGV's were the last class of British BB's completed before the end of WWII (the completed one additional post-war BB).  They were built partially under the restrictions of the treaty system but that system was collapsing as they were being built.  The five ships (KGV, Prince of Wales (POW), Duke of York (DOY), Anson, and Howe) were built between 1936-1942 and were the most modern BB's in the RN during WWII.  They had 10x14" main guns and smaller arms and could obtain 28kn.  They are roughly equivalent to the US SoDak Class.  

Hood has a really interesting story.  It was laid down during WWI and completed just before the treaty system went into effect.  Consequently, it was the most powerful warship in the world for around 20 years.  During this time it gained a rather revered/mythic status in Britain so it's loss (to Bismark) early in WWII was particularly troubling to the RN and the British in general.  It had 8x15" main guns and could obtain 32 kn.  At construction it was designated a BattleCruiser but by WWII standards it was probably more proper to call it a fast Battleship (like the Iowa's).  It was sunk by a catastrophic magazine explosion* after taking hits from Bismark early in WWII.  *Catastrophic Magazine Explosion is redundant.  All Magazine Explosions are by nature catastrophic.  Arizona suffered a similar fate at Pearl Harbor and about half of US deaths at Pear Harbor occurred when Arizona blew up.  similarly, there were only three survivors out of Hood's crew of nearly 1,500.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 25, 2023, 01:20:30 PM
These last two Iowa's were cancelled when it became apparent that they were surplus to wartime needs and eventually scrapped although one of them (I forget which) had it's bow removed and used to repair one of the completed ships. 
The Kentucky's bow was removed to repair the Wisconsin after a collision with another ship. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 25, 2023, 01:26:29 PM
Regarding the American BB's. The South Dakota class of BB had 9-16 inch main guns. They were .45 caliber guns known as Mark 6 guns. The Iowa class BB's, had 9-16 inch Mark 7 50 caliber guns which were slightly more powerful and had a greater range than the Mark 6 guns. 

Either way, they both had awesome firepower. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 25, 2023, 03:58:04 PM
Regarding the American BB's. The South Dakota class of BB had 9-16 inch main guns. They were .45 caliber guns known as Mark 6 guns. The Iowa class BB's, had 9-16 inch Mark 7 50 caliber guns which were slightly more powerful and had a greater range than the Mark 6 guns.

Either way, they both had awesome firepower.
In the actual event it hardly mattered because the marginally longer range of the Iowa's Mark 7 guns paled in comparison to the vastly longer range of carrier based aircraft which had rendered Battleships more-or-less obsolete by the time the Iowa's were completed.

They were great at shore bombardment but range is rarely an issue in that capacity and for that matter the much older 14" and 12" armed ships were just about as effective anyway.

In my earlier post I forgot to include the ultimate fates of the Yamato class ships.

Mushashi went first. It was part of the Japanese Center Force for what became the Battle of Leyte Gulf during the US invasion of the Philippines along with Yamato. The USN discovered this powerful surface force and dispatched a staggering quantity of aircraft to deal with it before it got close enough to do any damage. Musashi absorbed a tremendous amount of firepower before succumbing after taking an estimated 17 bombs and 19 torpedoes.

A month later the intended third Yamato Class ship, Shinano, which had been converted to an aircraft carrier during construction was ordered to be moved from Tokyo Bay where construction was still underway to the more protected  Japanese Inland Sea due to Shinano having been spotted by US reconnaissance flights. Unfortunately for Shinano and her crew, this move was ordered over the protest of her captain due to the fact that the ship was incomplete and watertight integrity of her doors and compartments had not been tested.

Shinano barely made it out of sight of Tokyo Bay before the USN submarine Archerfish got her with four torpedoes. She sank a few hours later.

Yamato herself lasted a bit longer. She survived almost to the end of the war before being sent on a suicide mission in a last ditch effort to defend Okinawa. She was ordered to beach herself on the island as an unsinkable gun battery. She never even got close. As with her sister, the USN sent in an overwhelming force of aircraft and Yamato sank after taking at least 11 torpedoes and six bombs.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 25, 2023, 06:01:16 PM
One way to make a ship faster is to make it longer but no wider.  Hence, the Iowas were 861 feetin length vs about 713, and they had 212,000 shaft hp vs about 120,000.

These ships of course didn't cruise at 33 knots, but they would often approach that speed for carrier flight operations, and of course in combat.  It helps to launch planes with 30+ knots of headwind.  A WW 2 naval fighter might need 75 knots to become airborne so you only need 45 knots provided by the plane.  The same is true for landing, it lowers you ground speed.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 25, 2023, 06:29:53 PM
Their primary improvement over the preceding SoDak class was that the Iowa's were faster.  The SoDak's and N. Carolina's could only obtain about 28 knots while the Iowa's could make 33 knots.  This 5kn improvement came at an IMMENSE cost because (engineers here can explain better than me) adding speed becomes exponentially more difficult so I think the Iowa's had to have something like 2.5x the power to go a mere 5kn faster.  

Yes. Drag is generally an exponential. In aerodynamic drag, the force increases with the square of velocity. Meaning to add 2 mph of top speed doesn't take twice as much power as to add 1 mph, it takes MORE than twice as much. 

It's why coefficient of drag is so important for fuel economy, and it's also why motorcycles are ridiculously "fast" when it comes to acceleration but have woeful top speeds compared to many cars. A motorcycle is horrible aerodynamically, so even if it accelerates quickly due to high power-to-weight ratio, its top speed will be FAR less than you typically expect. Because the coefficient of drag is terrible. 

I don't know the equations for aquatic drag, but in general aquatic drag is MUCH more severe than aerodynamic, so assuming it also follows an exponential relationship, going from 28 knots to 33 knots is a massive increase. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 26, 2023, 10:04:18 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/2hwqwwj.png)

Back row: Auguste Piccard, Émile Henriot, Paul Ehrenfest, Édouard Herzen, Théophile de Donder, Erwin Schrödinger, Jules-Émile Verschaffelt, Wolfgang Pauli, Werner Heisenberg, Ralph Howard Fowler, Léon Brillouin.
Middle row: Peter Debye, Martin Knudsen, William Lawrence Bragg, Hendrik Anthony Kramers, Paul Dirac, Arthur Compton, Louis de Broglie, Max Born, Niels Bohr.
Front row (seated): Irving Langmuir, Max Planck, Marie Skłodowska Curie, Hendrik Lorentz, Albert Einstein, Paul Langevin, Charles-Eugène Guye, Charles Thomson Rees Wilson, Owen Willans Richardson.
Photo: Benjamin Couprie, Institut International de Physique Solvay, Leopold Park, Brussels, Belgium. Public domain via Wikimedia Commons.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 26, 2023, 10:05:03 AM
Irving Langmuir is often considered the first "industrial chemist" and came up with the famous Langmuir equation, which I had occasion to use several times.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 26, 2023, 03:18:07 PM
Escaping Nebraska's hottest day ever recorded with a high of 115 degrees, residents of Lincoln, Nebraska slept on the lawn of the State Capitol when temperatures never fell below 91 degrees on July 25, 1936.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/362240819_670349211800869_1328296722473670837_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=VFEsCzNSbXkAX_93rdH&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCkOwI_2dCbjQ_mVucTJfZuLi-vPrrAzsdEcyfDJMkL4Q&oe=64C56350)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 27, 2023, 08:08:06 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Battle of Killiecrankie (1689)
Fought between Scottish highland clans supporting James II and VII and the government troops of William of Orange, the Battle of Killiecrankie occurred in Scotland during the first Jacobite uprising in 1689. Outnumbered, barefoot, and armed mostly with claymores—large, double-edged broadswords—the highlanders, led by John Graham of Claverhouse, used their position on the steep Pass of Killiecrankie to force a retreat. Despite the victory, Claverhouse was killed.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 27, 2023, 08:11:10 AM
The bottom layer of rock at Bryce Canyon is the top layer of Zion National Park and the bottom layer at Zion is the top layer of the Grand Canyon
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 27, 2023, 08:57:50 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/CPsBfSa.png)

I am struck by how unpopular streetcars are today (outside SF where they are touristy), and busses.  I often see busses go by with 1 or 2 passengers.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 27, 2023, 09:15:03 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/KaIsmrV.jpg)

Damn Bugeaters can't handle their Liquor. Is that a coreectional facility you were affiliated with FF?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 27, 2023, 09:19:06 AM

I am struck by how unpopular streetcars are today (outside SF where they are touristy), and busses.  I often see busses go by with 1 or 2 passengers.
folks have too much money these days or simply make their personal vehicle a priority.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 27, 2023, 01:59:16 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/TJqPWvN.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 27, 2023, 02:39:02 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/hV0IfYC.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 27, 2023, 02:47:08 PM
[img width=274.381 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/TJqPWvN.png[/img]
One historical fact that I find astounding is that the Pyramids were older when the Romans got to Egypt than the Roman ruins are now.

Another way to phrase it is that Julius Caesar is closer in time to an iPhone than to a Pyramid builder.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 27, 2023, 03:07:31 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/JhN3wkw.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 28, 2023, 08:27:44 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

US Bomber Crashes into New York's Empire State Building (1945)
On a foggy Saturday morning in July 1945, a B-25 Mitchell bomber accidentally crashed into the north side of the Empire State Building between the 79th and 80th floors. One of the plane's engines shot through the building and out the other side, and the other plummeted down an elevator shaft. Though 14 people died in the incident, the building was largely open for business on the following Monday. What Guinness World Record was set by elevator operator Betty Lou Oliver during the accident?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: LetsGoPeay on July 28, 2023, 08:29:35 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

US Bomber Crashes into New York's Empire State Building (1945)
On a foggy Saturday morning in July 1945, a B-25 Mitchell bomber accidentally crashed into the north side of the Empire State Building between the 79th and 80th floors. One of the plane's engines shot through the building and out the other side, and the other plummeted down an elevator shaft. Though 14 people died in the incident, the building was largely open for business on the following Monday. What Guinness World Record was set by elevator operator Betty Lou Oliver during the accident?

Probably something to do with feces. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 28, 2023, 08:33:21 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

US Bomber Crashes into New York's Empire State Building (1945)
On a foggy Saturday morning in July 1945, a B-25 Mitchell bomber accidentally crashed into the north side of the Empire State Building between the 79th and 80th floors. One of the plane's engines shot through the building and out the other side, and the other plummeted down an elevator shaft. Though 14 people died in the incident, the building was largely open for business on the following Monday. What Guinness World Record was set by elevator operator Betty Lou Oliver during the accident?
I had read about this before 9/11 so on 9/11 when I first heard that a plane had hit the WTC, this is what I immediately thought of and I initially assumed that the incident was similar to this.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 28, 2023, 12:18:41 PM
I have a piece of trinitite from my visit many years ago,
I can't recall ever encountering anyone else who has visited. What did you think of it?

I thought of this comment today because I saw an article about visitation and that they are expecting a massive increase in numbers this year due to the release of Oppenheimer. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 29, 2023, 07:44:40 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/odBQElR.png)

I'm a big fan of Bernard Cornwell and "The Last Kingdom" etc.  This is one reason our language is so weird.  Then the "French" invaded, except they weren't exactly "French".  Then some of the folks in the green area migrated to "France" to a part called "Brittany" because Britons lived there and spoke Breton, some still do.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 29, 2023, 12:22:03 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/YAhqfkY.png)

The first rocket launch at Cape Canaveral, Florida, took place on this day in 1950 with the launch of "Bumper 8." According to thisdayinaviation-dot-com the vehicle was ".....a two-stage rocket consisting of a captured German V-2 ballistic missile as the first stage and a WAC Corporal sounding rocket as the upper, second, stage. When launched, the rocket engine burned for 65 seconds, accelerating the rocket to 3,580 miles per hour with a peak altitude between 88 and 128 miles, depending on the desired range." (NASA image) 

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 29, 2023, 01:02:38 PM
zero to 3,580 miles per hour in 60 seconds

impressive
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 29, 2023, 01:20:32 PM
My '71 Dart did that.....down hill w/o brakes and a Keg in the trunk
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 29, 2023, 01:29:14 PM
did ya push it off a cliff?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 29, 2023, 02:50:29 PM
did ya push it off a cliff?
You joke, but I doubt a '71 Dart even has terminal velocity anywhere near 3850 mph... 

(I'm fun at parties.)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 29, 2023, 04:21:41 PM
You joke, but I doubt a '71 Dart even has terminal velocity anywhere near 3850 mph...

(I'm fun at parties.)
Dropped from a REALLY high height, would it even be supersonic? I doubt it but I really have no idea. I'd guess terminal velocity wouldn't be much more than a couple hundred MPH.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 29, 2023, 04:37:05 PM
Terminal velocity is 25,000 mph ... in a vacuum, in air of course, it depends on aerodynamics.  The below is slower than I would have guessed for such an aero object.

 A bullet fired straight up, with no wind, might reach a height of 10,000 feet (about three kilometers), but will come back down at only around 150 miles per hour: just 10% of the speed and with only 1% of the energy as the originally fired bullet.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 29, 2023, 04:44:57 PM
Terminal velocity is 25,000 mph ... in a vacuum, in air of course, it depends on aerodynamics.  The below is slower than I would have guessed for such an aero object.

A bullet fired straight up, with no wind, might reach a height of 10,000 feet (about three kilometers), but will come back down at only around 150 miles per hour: just 10% of the speed and with only 1% of the energy as the originally fired bullet.
I can't imagine that a 71 Dart is much more aerodynamic than a bullet so it sounds even slower than my original guess.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 29, 2023, 04:53:36 PM
"We" tend to think the weight would be a factor, but it's a very slight one.  I'd guess a car would be around 120 mph, same as a human.  I think a human can hit 180+ head down, so maybe the bullet thing is wrong.

In October, at the United States Parachute Association Nationals in Arizona, Lobpries became the fastest athlete in the sport when he reached a speed of 318.74 m.p.h. That exceeded his previous world record of 316.23 m.p.h. Maxine Tate, a fellow American competitor, also broke her own women’s world record, increasing her speed from 275.8 to 285.27 m.p.h. Those records blow by the top speeds of NASCAR, IndyCar and Formula 1 drivers, who have never surpassed 260 miles per hour in official competitions.

It’s a sport for people who have flung themselves out of planes with such frequency that the simple act of strapping on a parachute and staring at a 13,000-foot drop no longer offers an adequate adrenaline rush.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 30, 2023, 08:53:30 AM
I think the bullet thing is wrong 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 30, 2023, 09:10:44 AM
I think the bullet thing is wrong
Yeah, I agree, a bullet should drop faster than a human.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 30, 2023, 09:14:25 AM
Still wouldn't want to get hit by a bullet going around 150mph
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 30, 2023, 09:28:52 AM
However, on earth there is air resistance. As the bullet falls air resistance will cause the bullet to stop accelerating and hit terminal velocity (terminal velocity is the speed at which air resistance balances the accelerating force of gravity). Experiments have determined that falling bullets reach terminal velocity at 200-300 feet per second depending on type. Note that falling bullets (shot vertically) usually do not come down nose first – which would be the most aerodynamic – but instead tumble, which really slows the bullet.

When you fire a bullet into the air, it typically takes between 20 and 90 seconds for it to come down, depending on the angle it was fired at, its muzzle velocity and its caliber. So, if you are a bystander, you have some time to take cover.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 30, 2023, 09:33:42 AM
HESE ARE ACTUAL COMPLAINTS RECEIVED BY "THOMAS COOK VACATIONS" FROM DISSATISFIED CUSTOMERS:
1. "They should not allow topless sunbathing on the beach. It was very distracting for my husband who just wanted to relax."
2. "On my holiday to Goa in India, I was disgusted to find that almost every restaurant served curry. I don't like spicy food."
3. "We went on holiday to Spain and had a problem with the taxi drivers as they were all Spanish."
4. "We booked an excursion to a water park but no-one told us we had to bring our own swimsuits and towels. We assumed it would be included in the price."
5. "The beach was too sandy. We had to clean everything when we returned to our room."
6. "We found the sand was not like the sand in the brochure. Your brochure shows the sand as white but it was more yellow."
7. "It's lazy of the local shopkeepers in Puerto Vallartato close in the afternoons. I often needed to buy things during 'siesta' time -- this should be banned."
8. "No-one told us there would be fish in the water. The children were scared."
9. "Although the brochure said that there was a fully equipped kitchen, there was no egg-slicer in the drawers."
10. "I think it should be explained in the brochure that the local convenience store does not sell proper biscuits like custard creams or ginger nuts."
11. "The roads were uneven and bumpy, so we could not read the local guide book during the bus ride to the resort. Because of this, we were unaware of many things that would have made our holiday more fun."
12. "It took us nine hours to fly home from Jamaica to England. It took the Americans only three hours to get home. This seems unfair."
13. "I compared the size of our one-bedroom suite to our friends' three-bedroom and ours was significantly smaller."
14. "The brochure stated: 'No hairdressers at the resort.' We're trainee hairdressers and we think they knew and made us wait longer for service."
15. "When we were in Spain, there were too many Spanish people there. The receptionist spoke Spanish, the food was Spanish. No one told us that there would be so many foreigners."
16. "We had to line up outside to catch the boat and there was no air-conditioning."
17. "It is your duty as a tour operator to advise us of noisy or unruly guests before we travel."
18. "I was bitten by a mosquito. The brochure did not mention mosquitoes."
19. "My fiancée and I requested twin-beds when we booked, but instead we were placed in a room with a king bed. We now hold you responsible and want to be re-reimbursed for the fact that I became pregnant. This would not have happened if you had put us in the room that we booked."


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 30, 2023, 10:15:41 AM
Those are contrived by the writer or those who said it - they can't be that bent. Ya it's your fault resort that we fornicated and I'm pregnant or the fish in the water or mosquitoes in the air .They wouldn't be smart enough to afford such a vacation
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 30, 2023, 03:06:51 PM
Yeah, I agree, a bullet should drop faster than a human. 
Of course, bullets drop humans.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 30, 2023, 03:28:41 PM
I had not figured on the bullet tumbling as "we" are used to them coming out as a spiral.  That would make for a cute physics calculation.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on July 30, 2023, 04:25:04 PM
I had read about this before 9/11 so on 9/11 when I first heard that a plane had hit the WTC, this is what I immediately thought of and I initially assumed that the incident was similar to this.
As did I.  I just assumed it was some sort of an accident, never realized it was even a big airliner until the 2nd one hit, then it kinda sunk in that it wasn't by accident.  Especially the way the 2nd one slammed into it going full speed.  I was watching it live on TV as I recall.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 30, 2023, 06:32:34 PM
The lady I woke up next to still thought it was accidental when the 2nd plane hit, but it was obvious to me that the math didn't add up on that.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 31, 2023, 09:04:03 AM
John Ford (seated) directs a sheriff’s posse scene with Ward Bond and John Wayne in the lead for “The Searchers” in 1956. 
John Wayne considered the part of Ethan Edwards to be the best character that he ever portrayed on-screen and he declared "The Searchers" (1956) to be his favorite film role.  As a result, John Wayne named his youngest son Ethan.
Natalie Wood was still a student in high school when this film was being made, and, on several occasions, John Wayne and Jeffrey Hunter had to pick her up at school. This caused a good deal of excitement among Wood's female classmates.
During filming, a Navajo child became seriously ill with pneumonia and needed urgent medical attention. John Wayne had his own airplane on location and had his pilot take the little girl to a hospital. For his deed, the Navajos named him "The Man With The Big Eagle".


(https://i.imgur.com/wUPhuab.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 31, 2023, 09:13:15 AM
In 1839 Charles Goodyear invented vulcanization, a process that forms molecular cross-linkages between polymer chains in rubber. The result is rubber that is stronger, more elastic, and much more resistance to hot and cold temperatures.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 31, 2023, 09:36:57 AM
Another accidental discovery of note ...  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 31, 2023, 10:02:13 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty Signed by the US and USSR (1991)
Signed five months before the collapse of the Soviet Union, the Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty was a result of negotiations aimed at reducing the nuclear arsenals of the US and the USSR. In 1991, at the conclusion of two sets of talks, US President George H.W. Bush and Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev agreed to a reduction of the Soviet Union stockpile from 11,000 to 8,000 nuclear weapons and of the US arsenal from 12,000 to 10,000.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 31, 2023, 11:16:36 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 
Primo Levi (1919)
Two years after earning a degree in chemistry, Levi, an Italian Jew, was captured by the Nazis and sent to Auschwitz. He later recounted the atrocities he witnessed in autobiographical novels including If This Is a Man, which has been described as one of the most important works of the 20th century. His best known work, The Periodic Table, is a collection of 21 meditations, each named for a chemical element.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 31, 2023, 12:38:13 PM
I had read about this before 9/11 so on 9/11 when I first heard that a plane had hit the WTC, this is what I immediately thought of and I initially assumed that the incident was similar to this.
I was boarding a plane in Cleveland just after the first plane hit. As I was checking in at the jet-way, the counter person mentioned that a plane had just hit the WTC. Remembering the story of the B-25 hitting years earlier, I to was thinking it was a small plane accidentally hitting the building. Once I made it to my seat, we taxied to the end of the run way and then returned to the terminal and de-planed. There was a bar in the middle of the terminal with a couple of big screen TVs. I was sitting there watching when the 2nd plane hit. At that point, I grabbed my carry-on's and stated that I was heading home. A guy that had been on the plane beside me was sitting in the bar and said that the pilot said to wait and check back in later. I said, we're not going anywhere now. I'm going home. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 31, 2023, 12:39:43 PM
The ground stop they pulled off was a marvel of organization.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 31, 2023, 02:13:13 PM
Former Canadian defence secretary Paul Hellyer calls on governments to reveal UFO information | The Independent | The Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/former-canadian-defence-secretary-paul-hellyer-calls-on-governments-to-reveal-ufo-information-10190024.html)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 31, 2023, 07:00:05 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/7DlKhnm.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 31, 2023, 07:31:20 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/7DlKhnm.png)
Sorry, I was raised by my pastor to believe that there are only two true gears. Some of these are an abomination! 

I mean, look at that planetary gear! It might as well be MORMON!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 01, 2023, 06:32:04 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
The Nanchang Uprising (1927)
Considered the birthplace of the People's Liberation Army, the city of Nanchang in the Jiangxi Province of southeastern China was the site of the first revolutionary activities of the Chinese Communist Party in 1927. During the uprising, a force of 30,000 Communist troops rose against the Kuomintang government and briefly established the first soviet republic in China. However, the government soon retook the city, and it became the regular Nationalist capital in 1928.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 01, 2023, 08:34:37 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY:
Primo Levi (1919)
Two years after earning a degree in chemistry, Levi, an Italian Jew, was captured by the Nazis and sent to Auschwitz. He later recounted the atrocities he witnessed in autobiographical novels including If This Is a Man, which has been described as one of the most important works of the 20th century. His best known work, The Periodic Table, is a collection of 21 meditations, each named for a chemical element.
That book is a fascinating read. 

Levi's retelling of his return home after being liberated from Auschwitz by the Soviets is interesting. His home country, Italy, had been at war with the USSR so he ended up in with some Italian POW's at one point. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 01, 2023, 09:21:20 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/qRQDO3F.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 01, 2023, 10:47:31 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/ceS8xGu.png)

I hope those passengers aren't wearing anything ferrometallic.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 01, 2023, 11:39:20 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/XTsIwMj.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 01, 2023, 04:10:35 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/d7Gj4V6.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on August 01, 2023, 04:20:24 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ceS8xGu.png)

I hope those passengers aren't wearing anything ferrometallic.
Theoretically the cabin could be, and would be, shielded.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 02, 2023, 09:09:06 PM

THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Sinking of PT-109 (1943)
While on patrol in the Pacific during WWII, USS PT-109 was run down by the Japanese destroyer Amagiri. The much smaller American boat was torn apart by the impact, and two seamen perished. The surviving crew, commanded by future US President John F. Kennedy, swam to safety on a nearby island and survived on coconuts for days before Solomon Islanders scouting the area found them. Kennedy's actions made him a war hero.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 02, 2023, 09:21:28 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/d7Gj4V6.png)
3 speed standard shift no power steering or brakes not a problem manually operating the wipers. be a bitch tossing back a beer though
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2023, 09:16:01 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Columbus Sets Sail for the New World (1492)
By his early 30s, Columbus had become a master mariner in the Portuguese merchant service. Convinced that he could reach land by sailing west, he requested ships to attempt such a voyage from both John II of Portugal and Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain but was repeatedly rebuffed. Finally, after eight years of supplication by Columbus, the Spanish monarchs decided to risk the enterprise.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 03, 2023, 10:35:57 AM
3 speed standard shift no power steering or brakes not a problem manually operating the wipers. be a bitch tossing back a beer though
... and nary a cup holder in sight ...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 03, 2023, 11:14:46 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/o5p0KF9.png)

USS Alabama 16" gun breech
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 03, 2023, 03:08:45 PM
My 'hood, then (1978) and now:

(https://i.imgur.com/ljRfmwl.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/4tQ9C6k.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 03, 2023, 03:42:09 PM
My 'hood, then (1978) and now:
[img width=274.381 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/ljRfmwl.png[/img]

[img width=274.381 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/4tQ9C6k.png[/img]
Mr Carrier sure did change the world, didn't he.

My dad was born in 1940 and his mother's family was from the Atlanta area (where the airport is now). My dad recalled spending several summers in the late 1940's with his Southern cousins and said that, at the time, visiting Atlanta was like visiting a third world country by comparison to modern and industrial Cleveland/Akron.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 04, 2023, 08:07:20 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/hOKTPYP.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 04, 2023, 08:45:07 AM
On Thanksgiving Day, November 30th, 1922, Nebraska played their last football game at Nebraska Field.  That day the Cornhuskers beat the once tied Notre Dame Fighting Irish 14 to 6 in front of a capacity crowd of 16,000.  The Huskers were the Missouri Valley champion with a 5-0 record and a overall record of 7-1.  Their only loss was at Syracuse 6-9.  Notre Dame finished with a 8-1-1 record.  Their tie was a 0 to 0 game vs Army.  Nebraska Field's first season was 1909.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/365045541_6614806268583979_7890582197175903245_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=x8Vd0oqTVNgAX-CgCN9&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDMwNjRjJh1vCZz1GWIeGsiY7uXEjabvoLFPiX3ZSJ2SQ&oe=64D1B746)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 04, 2023, 09:12:02 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/X35H2Zw.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 04, 2023, 09:21:43 AM
[img width=274.381 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/hOKTPYP.png[/img]
GTTSR?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 04, 2023, 01:33:51 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/YcoYNrF.png)

Tate City is an unincorporated community (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unincorporated_area) and census-designated place (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Census-designated_place) in Towns County (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Towns_County,_Georgia), Georgia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_(U.S._state)), United States.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tate_City,_Georgia#cite_note-1) It was founded as a mining and logging community. The community was named after one Mr. Tate, a businessperson in the local lumber industry.[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tate_City,_Georgia#cite_note-2)
Tate City sits in a scenic valley along the upper Tallulah River (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tallulah_River), just south of the Georgia-North Carolina border. The community is flanked by various peaks of the Blue Ridge and Nantahala Mountains, including 4568-foot Hightower Bald (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hightower_Bald), 4640-ft. Dicks Knob (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dicks_Knob), and 5499-ft. Standing Indian Mountain (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_Indian_Mountain).
Demographics[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tate_City,_Georgia&action=edit&section=1)]
As of the 2010 United States Census (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_United_States_Census), there were 16 people living in the CDP. The racial makeup of the CDP was 100.0% White.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 04, 2023, 01:40:06 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/X35H2Zw.png)
Looks like one of the 3rd Reich's abandoned Artillery & Tunnel bunker designs
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 04, 2023, 03:35:15 PM
https://www.armytimes.com/off-duty/military-culture/2023/08/03/wwii-paratrooper-famous-for-bringing-beer-to-wounded-troops-dies-at-98/
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 04, 2023, 03:37:22 PM
I read that one earlier today
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 04, 2023, 03:43:28 PM
I read that one earlier today
Great story isn't it?

Sad that what has been called the greatest generation is nearly gone and dying off.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 04, 2023, 04:40:16 PM
July 30, 762 - Baghdad is founded.
After their victory over the Umayyads, the Abbasids - the new ruling dynasty in the Arab Empire - wanted a new capital from which to rule. On July 30, 762, Caliph Al-Mansur therefore ordered the founding of a new city on the banks of the Tigris, north of the ancient cities of Ctesiphon and Babylon. He baptised it "Madinat al-Salaam", City of Peace. However, the people continued to use the name of the pre-existing settlement: "Baghdad".
The location of the new city was strategically chosen. On the one hand, the city was on the dominant trade routes along the Tigris River. On the other hand, in both the north and the south of the city, there is water nearby - Baghdad is located near a meander of the Tigris - so that all households could be sufficiently supplied.
The markets of Baghdad attracted a large number of people from far and wide. They brought new prosperity, knowledge and literature. In the ninth century, this would make Baghdad a true world center of science and philosophy. The Islamic golden age had arrived.
Bonus fact: the city center was designed as a perfect circle, following the traditional Sassanid city planning. Unfortunately, nothing of this city center remains today. We only know this from surviving writings.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 05, 2023, 10:02:43 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Cowra Breakout: One of the Biggest Escapes in History (1944)
During World War II, Japanese prisoners of war at a camp near Cowra, Australia, orchestrated one of the largest prison escapes of the war. Armed only with makeshift weapons, hundreds of Japanese prisoners stormed the machine gun posts and overwhelmed the guards. Some prisoners, rather than escaping, attempted or committed suicide, or were killed by fellow soldiers. The breakout resulted in the deaths of four Australian soldiers and 231 Japanese prisoners.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 06, 2023, 08:44:11 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/6WNXC2s.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 06, 2023, 08:46:11 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The First Execution by Electric Chair (1890)
In the 1880s, inventor Thomas Edison sought to promote direct current (DC) power distribution by convincing the public that the alternating current (AC) electricity backed by rival George Westinghouse was dangerous. To that end, his partners developed an AC-powered electric chair, which was adopted by the state of New York as an official execution device. In 1889, murderer William Kemmler was sentenced to be the first person to be executed via electric chair.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 07, 2023, 10:25:53 AM
A few more quotes from the Charles Campbell journal I'm transcribing:
[17 June 1864]  "Rev. Mr. A. W. Miller told me that he was about to remove his family to Mr. James Dunlop's as the shells had been falling about Lombard Street great part of the night. Saw mulatto man carrying in his arms on Bank Street a negro child, one leg cut off and another injured by a shell, looking for a surgeon. The mother followed screaming. Soon another child was brought along badly wounded in the side. They were wounded near the gas house. A battle going on this morning in Chesterfield near Swift Creek. Attack made by Confederates. The Yankees have in front of Petersburg two corps---Burnside and Hancock's. Some officers are of opinion that Grant was present in the fights yesterday....
[18 June 1864] "Saw some dusty officers riding up Sycamore Street and was told that Gen. Lee was among  them. Went to the Post Office headquarters where Lee was conferring with Gen. Beauregard. A crowd collected there. Waited about an hour to see the General. He rode on a sorel horse which I was told is not his favorite. Looked at his carriage. Has inside a small trunk, some blankets, &c. bundled up in canvass, 2 or 3 camp stools, a boot-jack, water bucket, small axe, &c. two plain large horses, rather poor. After remaining about an hour, started to go away when hearing a stir, I turned and saw Gen. Lee with Beauregard in front of the Post Office. They walked around to Union Street opposite the Institute where they mounted. Gen. Lee, turning to the crowd on the sidewalk made a slight obeisance, which was responded to, when they rode off, followed by some officers to visit our lines. Went out in the direction of Rives' farm. Gen. Lee is large, portly, plainly dressed, gray coat, long white beard and whiskers, large head. Reminded me every way of my idea of Washington...
...In afternoon, took my children & some others down to foot of Short Market Street near the river to see some Indian prisoners. There were 14 of them among some 300 yankee prisoners. they were in a 3rd story and the Lieutenant in command brought down two of the Indians for us to look at. The children had never seen one before. They told me that they were Ottawas from Michigan & belonged to a Michigan regiment. One named Louis Mark. The other Edward something which I could not catch, it being a guttural Indian word. Said that they have been in the army 12 months, had been in no fights till now. One of them did not talk English very well and he had nothing to say. They were tawny with dark straight black hair, black eyes, high cheek bones, of taciturn disposition and very grave-looking, robust men. One took off his cap at my request that the children might see his hair. They appeared to be full-blooded Indians..."
To read more of Charles' incredible journal, go to: [color=var(--blue-link)]https://sparedshared23.com/.../the-1863-64-journal-of.../ (https://sparedshared23.com/2023/07/30/the-1863-64-journal-of-petersburg-resident-charles-campbell/?fbclid=IwAR0UCxAicdXVQCZlKya09vlz-9Z5ZAzjW_FW0-vsQvy5zK2gAzZwYpZoWO0)[/url][/font][/font][/size][/color]

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 07, 2023, 10:28:09 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Battle of Guadalcanal Begins (1942)
During World War II, the Japanese occupied the island of Guadalcanal in the South Pacific. Hoping to prevent the Japanese from using this position to threaten supply routes between the US, Australia, and New Zealand, the Allies launched their first large-scale invasion of a Japanese-held island. After six months of bitter fighting on the ground, at sea, and in the air, the Allies captured the island.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 07, 2023, 10:30:42 AM
The 'canal campaign is quite interesting, to me, a pretty large "meeting engagement" in the Pacific theater which was dominated by naval action.  The US Navy lost more men than the 1st Marine Division.  The Japanese kept feeding in men without enough supply thinking the US force was smallish.  Then they managed a rather miraculous withdrawal at the end.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 07, 2023, 12:08:09 PM
A few more quotes from the Charles Campbell journal I'm transcribing:
That is interesting. A much more on-the-ground history than what we usually read. Is he an ancestor of yours?

I've mentioned here before that my family transcribed and sold copies of my great-great-grandfather's Civil War diary. Joshua Dewees fought in the Civil War as a soldier in the 97th Ohio Volunteer Infantry. He was my mother's mother's father's father. The diary is on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Joshua-DeWees-His-Civil-diary/dp/B0006P51OY
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 07, 2023, 12:34:43 PM
No ancestor that I know of.  I was told my "people" hid up in the mountains and didn't fight, though I think a few did.  The Appalachian region of the Confederacy was not supportive of the war in general.  I was struck by how desolated the South was after the war in many areas.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 07, 2023, 12:38:57 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/DzoArun.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on August 07, 2023, 12:40:52 PM
We had those in our freezer up until my parents finally got a fridge with icemaker in, like, 1992.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 07, 2023, 01:52:37 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
Battle of Guadalcanal Begins (1942)
During World War II, the Japanese occupied the island of Guadalcanal in the South Pacific. Hoping to prevent the Japanese from using this position to threaten supply routes between the US, Australia, and New Zealand, the Allies launched their first large-scale invasion of a Japanese-held island. After six months of bitter fighting on the ground, at sea, and in the air, the Allies captured the island.
The 'canal campaign is quite interesting, to me, a pretty large "meeting engagement" in the Pacific theater which was dominated by naval action.  The US Navy lost more men than the 1st Marine Division.  The Japanese kept feeding in men without enough supply thinking the US force was smallish.  Then they managed a rather miraculous withdrawal at the end.
The Japanese handling of the battle severely hurt their cause.

They had several opportunities to push the USMC into the Solomon Sea and failed to do it.

The most notable was after the Battle of the Santa Cruz Islands in October, 1942. The USS Hornet was sunk at that battle which left the USN with zero operational carriers in the Pacific. USN Carriers commissioned prior to November, 1942:
A couple of MUCH smaller and MUCH slower escort carriers had been commissioned but they were not fit for frontline duties against IJN ships and, in any case, they were desperately needed to chase U-boats in the Atlantic.


Thus, after Santa Cruz, the Japanese had no carrier opposition in the Pacific and they had a MUCH stronger surface fleet than the USN due to losses at Pearl Harbor and the fact that the new USN BB's were either just coming into service (SoDaks) or not yet complete (Iowas).

Instead of putting everything they had into an all-out effort to regain Guadalcanal, they continued the long, attrition campaign that was nearly perfectly suited to America's strengths.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 07, 2023, 01:59:47 PM
The IJN and their Army did not play well together.  That friction is the source of much of their poor strategy and tactics.  It was still going to be tough for them to push 1MarDiv off the island.  They'd need to close Henderson substantially and for days at a time, which they never did.  Then they had to hack through mountainous jungle terrain to get at the Marine's lodgement, and then attack,  which they did a few times but without enough force.

The Marines feared an amphibious assault directly on their position which might have worked?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 07, 2023, 02:30:32 PM
The IJN and their Army did not play well together.
This is an understatement of epic proportions. I know you know that, I'm just stating it for anyone following the thread who is unaware. It is unbelievable how bad the relationship between the Army and Navy was.
It was still going to be tough for them to push 1MarDiv off the island.  They'd need to close Henderson substantially and for days at a time, which they never did.  Then they had to hack through mountainous jungle terrain to get at the Marine's lodgement, and then attack,  which they did a few times but without enough force.

The Marines feared an amphibious assault directly on their position which might have worked?
Taking out Henderson Field was obviously the key and my argument is not only that the Japanese could have done it, but that they almost did:

On the night of October 13/14 the IJN sent a major bombardment force that (per wiki but I've gotten the same info from various books):
The Battle of the Santa Cruz Islands (which eliminated serviceable USN carriers, see above) was less than two weeks later.

If they had sent the bombardment force back right after Santa Cruz, they'd have been able to stay into daylight and they'd have finished off the Cactus Air Force.

With no air cover and heavy Japanese surface units in the waters around Guadalcanal, it would have been impossible for the USN to resupply the troops on Guadalcanal. Meanwhile the Japanese could have delivered the heavy equipment that they desperately needed, or just shortcut the entire process and land new troops directly at Lungga Point.


US troops with no air cover and no resupply wouldn't have been able to do more than inflict a few casualties in defense.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 07, 2023, 02:36:40 PM
It was a close run thing.  The change in commander at the top had some impact I think.  He was willing to commit the South Dakota and Washington in the waters around Savo Island, but that was a month later.

Henderson Field got repaired fairly quickly, and they built another air strip for fighters nearby that the Japanese didn't know about for a while.

I would hate to have been under the fire of 14" naval guns.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 07, 2023, 03:10:03 PM
It was a close run thing.  The change in commander at the top had some impact I think.  He was willing to commit the South Dakota and Washington in the waters around Savo Island, but that was a month later.

Henderson Field got repaired fairly quickly, and they built another air strip for fighters nearby that the Japanese didn't know about for a while.

I would hate to have been under the fire of 14" naval guns.
In addition to that, ultimately the Japanese were going to lose the war no matter what happened at Henderson Field because eventually all those SoDaks, Iowas, Baltimores, Clevelands, Alaskas, Montanas, Essexes, etc were going to show up and flat overwhelm them.

That said, I do think that the concept of Japanese victory at Guadalcanal makes for an interesting hypothetical. Suppose that, as per above, right after Santa Cruz, the IJN sends their BB's and their remaining CV to the Southern Solomons. The USN has little with which to resist so Henderson Field is obliterated, the CAF is put out of business, and the Japanese are able to resupply Guadalcanal while the US is not.

The USMC is pushed into the Solomon Sea in what would have been a bloody battle. Then what?

My theory:
King/Halsey ended up being "right" because it worked out but the troops on Guadalcanal referred to the whole thing as "Operation Shoestring" because the US wasn't really ready for such a major undertaking and the troops were chronically undersupplied.

There is a credible argument that what King/Halsey did was foolhardy because the US didn't have to be overly aggressive. Time was on our side.

Militaries are bureaucracies. Bureaucracies tend to overcompensate for past mistakes and perceived past mistakes. If the USMC had been pushed into the Solomon Sea at Guadalcanal, it would have been seen as a catastrophe born of King/Halsey's unnecessary and reckless over aggression.

The result would likely have been for the Generals and Admirals in charge of the Pacific theater to more-or-less turn themselves into clones of Bernard Montgomery and wait until they had overwhelming superiority before attempting any offensive actions. The official "Germany First" policy would have been seen as support for this course of action.

At that point, US offensives in the Pacific would have been put on hold for probably a year and a half until the first wave of Essex Class Carriers (7 commissioned by end of 1943) along with the Independence Class Light Carriers (all 9 commissioned in 1943), Iowa Class Battleships (2 commissioned in 1943) were available.

Only then (roughly end of 1943, early 1944) could the USN be completely confident that they would not encounter a superior force of IJN ships.

That would set the entire timeline of the Pacific War back by 12-18 months so that when Germany's eventual defeat became undeniably obvious the Japanese still would have held most of their conquered possessions. Some kind of deal might have been possible at that point.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 07, 2023, 03:49:45 PM
As it was a close run thing anyway, and as you note, the Japanese "messed up", with some improvement on their part ...

They could have started on another airfield closer down the slot earlier also.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 07, 2023, 03:49:57 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/OxxPmsy.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 07, 2023, 06:42:06 PM
2660 Egptians were building pyramids while Wooly mammoths were still living

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf-xGKTszuE

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 07, 2023, 10:53:36 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/364079515_299140659442380_4645230272990581108_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=_zg3uZZER3QAX_ilMw0&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCz8SddhomM-NyLdyIf6ykp2CNWPhDDKLKZ7B3Be7BDWw&oe=64D60C23)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 08, 2023, 07:17:49 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/4XiebO1.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 08, 2023, 07:20:00 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/nbJLegi.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 08, 2023, 09:15:08 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Collapse of Warsaw Radio Mast (1991)
Upon its completion in 1974, the Warsaw radio mast in Poland became the world's tallest structure. Standing 2,120 feet (646 m) tall, the tower was used for long-wave radio broadcasting. In 1991, the mast underwent repairs to exchange guy wires, the cables used to stabilize the tower. However, the mast bent and then snapped at approximately half its height. It was never rebuilt.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 08, 2023, 01:42:18 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/vNQR5sx.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 09, 2023, 09:12:22 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Sharon Tate Murdered by Manson "Family" (1969)
Tate, an American actress, was nominated for a Golden Globe award in 1968 for her performance in Valley of the Dolls. In 1969, Charles Manson, leader of a cult called the "Family," sent his followers to Tate's home with orders to "totally destroy everyone in [it], as gruesome as you can." Tate, 8 ½ months pregnant at the time, was murdered along with 5 friends. The "Family" committed several other murders before its members were caught and brought to trial in 1971.


(https://editorial01.shutterstock.com/preview-440/898627a/b48e0d31/Shutterstock_898627a.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on August 09, 2023, 09:14:30 AM
That one is such a sad and weird story.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 10, 2023, 09:53:30 AM
A precursor to Hyperloop travel was tried in the 1870s in New York City. Beach Pneumatic Transit briefly allowed people to travel a short distance in Manhattan in underground, pneumatic passenger capsules.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 10, 2023, 09:55:55 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

"Son of Sam" Serial Killer Arrested (1977)
Between 1976 and 1977, New York City was terrorized by a serial killer—later identified as David Berkowitz—who called himself the "Son of Sam" in letters to police. After his arrest in August 1977, Berkowitz confessed to killing six people and wounding seven others in the course of eight shootings. Berkowitz later claimed that he was commanded to kill by a demon who possessed his neighbor's dog.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 10, 2023, 03:09:52 PM
The D155W is the first amphibious bulldozer worldwide and was manufactured in 1971. A total of 36 machines were produced. There are still some restored units in operation around the world.

Komatsu and Asunaro Aoki Construction Co., Ltd. announced that the “Underwater Construction of the Future” will be presented at the Expo 2025 Osaka, Kansai, Japan.


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/366247634_686992666802060_7940744704724033411_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=rQFJjD6fofoAX86tURG&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCwrhQc6emaBmIQHJQAKYM5byxbtP-20L6TCPKfEJmT4g&oe=64DA98B8)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 11, 2023, 05:16:42 PM
Former WBC heavyweight champion Ken Norton, who had three classic fights with Muhammad Ali, breaking Ali’s jaw in winning their first contest, then losing twice, was born in Jacksonville, Illinois #OnThisDay in 1943.

He starred in high school gridiron, basketball and track. He attended Northeast Missouri State University (now Truman State University) on a gridiron scholarship but was hampered by a shoulder injury in his first two seasons and enlisted in the Marines. Norton started boxing while he was in the Marines, compiling an amateur record of 24-2 and winning the All-Marine Heavyweight title three times.


(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/366528627_771822198284554_8637378991763463110_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=7f8c78&_nc_ohc=o2ueXHxCBzoAX_ff2-8&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAUC9Wd8XLOTCPS42KH36Bt-AYXtW5iuPwsoxztWsG2_g&oe=64DAE6E7)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 11, 2023, 06:29:39 PM
Inside an airplane in 1930.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/366653233_616280080622258_4156637637561733574_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=dd63ad&_nc_ohc=-_olFNNqfmoAX9l3GiZ&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBJYZptiNKyuCTzXfykEnjx7Pl9Nd7eWea7gY0kkZh-EA&oe=64DB058F)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 11, 2023, 09:02:52 PM
The M26 Pershing assembly line at the General Motors Grand Blanc tank plant in Michigan, 1945

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/365993246_695093985968619_725175504603751370_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=9b3078&_nc_ohc=FSH6AlCfVowAX_UMjga&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDJ3jPVHAS1dmXLZdaoWp0SSqXVBAHwePY1OMFLk8fFTg&oe=64DB7175)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 12, 2023, 08:52:31 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Cleopatra Commits Suicide (30 BCE)
After likely arranging for her brothers Ptolemy XIII and Ptolemy XIV—to whom she was married, according to custom—to be killed, Cleopatra gained sole rule of Egypt. She later left for Rome with Julius Caesar but returned to Egypt after his assassination, luring Caesar's heir, Mark Antony, into marriage. Octavian, whose sister Antony had previously married, declared war on Cleopatra and Antony and defeated their joint forces at the Battle of Actium.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 12, 2023, 09:29:28 AM
Stuka zeroing in it's forward firing MG's

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/364807191_759855649484064_4520693994933682087_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=7f8c78&_nc_ohc=yev4dRqFi-MAX_RbSGV&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDxEP2M62oS3t-XiW8Rct5lGIEN_8gBmbPBRLoZYJ0D7A&oe=64DBDA78)

Dude in shorts unloading his MG
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 13, 2023, 08:35:05 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Michael Servetus Arrested as a Heretic (1553)
Servetus, a Spanish physician who was the first to accurately describe cardiopulmonary circulation, is perhaps best remembered for his theological writings, which ultimately led to his execution. His religious views, particularly his denial of the Trinity, alienated Roman Catholics and Protestants alike and led to his arrest and imprisonment in 1553. He escaped but was soon rearrested, convicted of heresy, and burned at the stake.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 13, 2023, 09:17:41 AM
https://youtu.be/MM6yoQTXWEk?t=959 (https://youtu.be/MM6yoQTXWEk?t=959)

I time stamped it listen to that Number 18


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 14, 2023, 06:59:23 AM
The U.S. Secret Service was originally created on July 5, 1865, during the Civil War to fight counterfeiting, which was a huge problem. By the end of the war, between 1/3 and 1/2 of all U.S. paper currency in circulation was counterfeit.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 14, 2023, 07:03:02 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

US Social Security Act Becomes Law (1935)
During the Great Depression, millions of people dissatisfied with the government response to the poor economy supported a plan to demand a $200 monthly pension for everyone over the age of 60. President Franklin D. Roosevelt responded by establishing a committee on economic security, which recommended legislative action to the US Congress. The resulting act established a national old-age pension system financed by a payroll tax on employers and employees.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 14, 2023, 07:43:36 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/s8ykjYR.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 14, 2023, 08:30:18 AM
Thought I've read that some arsenics smell/taste sweet
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 14, 2023, 08:36:44 AM
The things that taste sweet are rather strange of generally have no common structural features.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 14, 2023, 11:24:37 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/spQeYkt.png)

This is about 2 miles south of me and about 159 years ago, almost exactly.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 14, 2023, 12:13:21 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/UsawgbG.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 14, 2023, 11:22:47 PM
saved by zero
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 15, 2023, 07:22:30 AM
Construction of the Panama Canal, Panama, 1912.

The idea of building a canal between the Atlantic and Pacific was first planned by the French civil engineer and builder of the Suez Canal, Ferdinand de Lesseps. The French began work in 1880, but 9 years later the difficulties posed by the terrain, disease and spiralling costs doomed the project to failure. The United States bought the land in 1904 for $40 million, and proceeded to complete the 80 kilometre long canal between 1904 and 1914. The building of the canal cost the lives of an estimated 25,000 workers due to accidents and tropical diseases.

(https://i.imgur.com/enAGqr0.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 15, 2023, 07:53:46 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 
Blind Jack Metcalf (1717)
John Metcalf, popularly known as Blind Jack, was a civil engineer and the first professional road builder of the Industrial Revolution. He lost his sight to a smallpox infection at age six and earned a living in early adulthood as a fiddle player. Though he was unable to see, he swam, played cards, rode horses, and even hunted. In 1765, Parliament passed an act authorizing turnpike building, and he won a contract to build a new road.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 15, 2023, 09:07:29 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/YkCsNvB.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 15, 2023, 09:15:11 AM
Video | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/watch?v=1241081083241762)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on August 15, 2023, 09:25:31 AM
Wow.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 15, 2023, 09:29:11 AM
Construction of the Panama Canal, Panama, 1912.

The idea of building a canal between the Atlantic and Pacific was first planned by the French civil engineer and builder of the Suez Canal, Ferdinand de Lesseps. The French began work in 1880, but 9 years later the difficulties posed by the terrain, disease and spiralling costs doomed the project to failure. The United States bought the land in 1904 for $40 million, and proceeded to complete the 80 kilometre long canal between 1904 and 1914. The building of the canal cost the lives of an estimated 25,000 workers due to accidents and tropical diseases.



And then "we" gave it away.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 15, 2023, 11:15:55 AM
Video | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/watch?v=1241081083241762)
StarTalk Podcast: Everyday Astrophysics with Neil deGrasse Tyson and Russell Peters - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzQJ8mJxNwg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 15, 2023, 01:48:23 PM
On 15 August 1955 Charles Townes, James Gordon and H. J. Zeiger published 'The Maser—New Type of Microwave Amplifier, Frequency Standard, and Spectrometermaser'.

Their device was the forerunner to the laser, using microwaves whereas lasers use visible light.


(https://i.imgur.com/IULyN9t.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 15, 2023, 02:36:07 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/cAYjNEf.png)

5 MB of data on 62,500 punch cards in 1955.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 15, 2023, 02:56:16 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/OO3yjBu.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 15, 2023, 03:02:33 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/JGE3UQN.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Riffraft on August 15, 2023, 04:32:33 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/cAYjNEf.png)

5 MB of data on 62,500 punch cards in 1955.
When I was in undergrad everything was punch cards.  You would have this stack of several hundred cards. pray you didn't make any typos and pray you didn't drop and scatter them before getting the the card reader.  On top of that you had limited Computer Time and if you used it all you had to pay for extra time. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 15, 2023, 04:46:52 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/cAYjNEf.png)

5 MB of data on 62,500 punch cards in 1955.
Good thing this was invented in 1956:


(https://i.imgur.com/bf8WzlT.png)

In one sense, I can say I work for the company that invented it. However that sense is not strictly legal, as my company owns the division of the company that invented it, which was spun off, but the parent company that spun it off remains and so they get the legal claim to its invention. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 15, 2023, 04:48:03 PM
And now it looks like this:

(https://i.imgur.com/KK4iRqQ.jpg)

And stores over 7 million times as much data.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 15, 2023, 04:58:25 PM
And now it looks like this:

[img width=274.381 height=328]https://i.imgur.com/KK4iRqQ.jpg[/img]

And stores over 7 million times as much data.
Cost has dropped even faster than size.

In lawschool we had a case involving data storage leasing. The case was from the 70's and Ross Perot's company had leased IIRC something like 10mb of storage for many thousands of dollars.

When I was in college (mid 90's) a lot of departments at tOSU had enormous stacks of punchcards that were being used as notepads because the cards were no longer needed.

Also, my first email account was through the university. I didn't have a PC (very few students did) so I had to access it through a computer-lab school computer. However, storage was still an issue so the University wouldn't store your messages after you downloaded them. Consequently, you had to bring a floppy disc with you in order to read/send email.

The Iomega Zip Disc was a HUMONGOUS improvement for thus for two reasons:


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 15, 2023, 05:15:46 PM
Cost has dropped even faster than size.

In lawschool we had a case involving data storage leasing. The case was from the 70's and Ross Perot's company had leased IIRC something like 10mb of storage for many thousands of dollars.

When I was in college (mid 90's) a lot of departments at tOSU had enormous stacks of punchcards that were being used as notepads because the cards were no longer needed.

Also, my first email account was through the university. I didn't have a PC (very few students did) so I had to access it through a computer-lab school computer. However, storage was still an issue so the University wouldn't store your messages after you downloaded them. Consequently, you had to bring a floppy disc with you in order to read/send email.

The Iomega Zip Disc was a HUMONGOUS improvement for thus for two reasons:
  • It had LOTS more storage, 100mb instead of 1.44, and
  • It was MUCH more durable. Zip Discs were contained in a hard plastic case that could take some punishment.

LOL... I was just barely behind you... College 96-00. 

Had my own PC, but then I was already a computer geek and going into electrical engineering, so that was pretty much a necessity. 

And I was *all* about the Zipdrive... One of the engineering labs had them on their PC, and had a BLAZING fast internet connection, so guess how I built my MP3 collection at the time :57:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on August 15, 2023, 06:17:07 PM
Undergrad from 90-94 for me.  Honestly it was a pretty golden time to be an electrical engineering student, and later an electrical engineer.

At UT all electrical engineering students had an email address, and we could access our accounts via the Vax dumb terminals or Sun Sparcstations in the main CS computer lab.  The Sparcstations had a phone jack where a special phone handset could be plugged in and you could use the internet to place a call to someone else with the same setup, the earliest VoIP I ever encountered.  I had a friend at Princeton and we used to talk all the time.  Well, talk, and design and operate MUDs.

But my sophomore year I used some of my scholarship stipend to buy a PC, it was an off-brand (Packard Bell) with a screaming Intel 486 DX2 66 MHz CPU, 8M RAM, 500M hard drive, and any other ridiculous, dated spec of the time.  But I was at least able to dial-in to UT's servers via my lightning quick 14.4Kbaud modem, and do some of my assignments, check email, plus, you know, play online games... like MUDs.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 15, 2023, 06:25:06 PM
Wow, undergrad 1972-1975 here.  029 card punch
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 15, 2023, 06:28:42 PM
Undergrad from 90-94 for me.  Honestly it was a pretty golden time to be an electrical engineering student, and later an electrical engineer.
Any good stories from 94-00 in the industry? 

I obviously entered the industry--especially in Silicon Valley--right as the roller coaster was cresting the peak and then going HARD downhill... So most of my initial entry to the industry was pain. 

But every sales guy I know who was around in those late-90s years talk about how insane it was. It was a height of an industry that I don't know I'll ever see.

Wondering if you had some of that or not...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 15, 2023, 07:32:33 PM
Why would he tell you? Ya might move there
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 16, 2023, 07:54:54 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/4o03s8K.png)

This was a wedding/honeymoon destination back in the day.  When I was a kid, the area had really gone downhill.  The state bought up some land and made a nice state park and today the village is somewhat "bacK", the SP is quite nice, they built stairs going down with something like 600 steps into the canyon and then a bridge across the river.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 16, 2023, 02:20:30 PM
LOL... I was just barely behind you... College 96-00.

Had my own PC, but then I was already a computer geek and going into electrical engineering, so that was pretty much a necessity.
This is something that has always fascinated me, the speed at which computers became prevalent.  

I graduated HS in 1993 which was just before the release of Netscape Navigator.  Back then I knew a couple people who had PC's in their houses but with barely any internet* it was only worthwhile if you were running a business doing payroll or something like that.  A lot of people had word processors which at your age (just three years younger), you probably barely even remember.  

A couple quick anecdotes:
When I moved in to my dorm freshman year at Ohio State in September, 1993 I was on a floor that (guessing, this was 30 years ago) had about 70 guys living on it.  Out of all 70 of us, ONE guy had a PC.  Then there were two or three word processors.  

My brother is 5-1/2 years younger than me and was six grades behind me in school.  In September, 1999 I helped move him into his dorm at Ohio State.  He lived in a room that was like a suite with four guys.  They had two bedrooms and a shared common area and bathroom.  Between them those four guys had FIVE computers (all four had PC's and one also had a laptop).  So between 1993 and 1999 the ratio of Computers to Students that I anecdotally observed increased from 1:70 to 5:4.  That is insane.  

Second anecdote, chatrooms:
One evening during my sophomore year at Ohio State some friends of mine and I went to visit a girl I had known in HS and her roommates.  We (guys) were all sophomores and the girls were all freshman, ONE year younger.  So we get there and they are in something on AOL called a "chatroom".  We (remember, only ONE year older) had literally never heard of such a thing and couldn't figure out why anyone would spend time in one.  

*Pre-Netscape Internet:
Netscape was a modern-ish browser.  If you could make an early-90's version of it work today, a modern person would recognize the basic arrangement.  Prior to netscape (ie, when I was in HS) there was an internet but only serious computer geeks were on it.  There were no search engines and the interface was just text on black screen so it was useless unless you REALLY knew what you were doing and even then it was only somewhat useful compared to today's internet.  
And I was *all* about the Zipdrive... One of the engineering labs had them on their PC, and had a BLAZING fast internet connection, so guess how I built my MP3 collection at the time :57:
That zip disc was a gigantic improvement.  

Ohio State's email program when I was in school was I think called Eudora or something like that.  I mentioned that you HAD to have a disc in order to access it.  That was because storage was expensive enough that the University refused to store your incoming or outgoing messages after you received or sent them.  To keep that off of their storage they dumped your incoming messages to your disc then deleted them from their servers to free up space.  Similarly, your outgoing messages sent from your disc to the University's servers then out and the University immediately deleted them.  

If you lost or damaged your disc (this happened more than once to me) all of your old messages were just gone.  You had to get a new disc and then when you signed in you'd get your new messages but you would NOT get anything that had previously been downloaded to your old disc.  

The other thing was that when you were "ON" your email, it wasn't "live".  I would go to the computer lab, put my disc in, and hit "send/retrieve".  Any outgoing messages that I hadn't already sent would be sent and any incoming messages that I hadn't previously received would be loaded to my disc.  Then when I was "on" my email, I was just working on my disc.  So if I had a message from you, a message from @utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) , a message from my dad (my brother had gotten him onto email), and a message from my brother, I'd answer but my answers weren't "sent" they were just pushed to the "outbox" on my disc.  Then, before I left I needed to remember to hit "send/retrieve" again so that those four messages would send.  More than once I forgot that step and then went back a day or two later and couldn't understand why someone I had typed an email to hadn't replied yet.  Duh, it was because I had typed but not sent my email.  

Even if something like this still existed, a modern programmer would obviously include a prompt at log-out to remind you that you had unsent messages in your outbox but back then there was no such thing.  If you forgot to hit "send/retrieve" and just logged out your messages just sat on your disc until the next time you logged in and hit send/retrieve.  If you lost or damaged your disc in the meantime, your messages just disappeared.  

Initially I was doing all of this on the old 3.5" 1.44mb floppy discs.  1.44mb actually sounded like a lot to us back then but if you were relatively active on email it filled up pretty quickly and you'd have to go through and purge old messages to make room for new ones.  

The other problem with the 3.5" floppy discs was that they were NOT very robust.  Since you had to carry your email disc with you all the time I knew a lot of people at tOSU who either lost or damaged theirs.  I remember when I first saw an Iomega Zip Disc.  I was at Long's Bookstore (famous long-term store across the street from the Ohio State campus) and next to the 3.5" floppy discs they had this thing that was roughly the same size but had a hard shell case and held 70x the data.  I think I paid $150 for mine and used it for my email for the rest of my time at Ohio State.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 16, 2023, 02:26:09 PM
The context of this discussion is a good place for this observation:
When I was in HS (1989-1993) cellphones existed but mostly only VERY highly paid sales types had them because they cost thousands of dollars to buy and hundreds of dollars per month to use.  

The internet existed but as a practical matter it didn't.  It was there for a few computer geeks but it had no bearing whatsoever on the larger popular culture.  

In a way I think that my HS experience was more similar to people 25+ years older than me than it was to people 5-10 years younger.  By the time I graduated from college in 1997 I had my own PC AND my own cellphone.  When I started HS in 1989 it would have been unthinkable for a 21 year old who hadn't started a job yet to have those things.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 16, 2023, 02:41:23 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Eptf74p.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 16, 2023, 02:45:54 PM
I began college in 1984 and finished in 1994. Tons of changes in those years.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 16, 2023, 02:49:57 PM
We had an Apple II+ on a roller cart when I started work in 1980.  The section shared it.  It had both paper tape and a casette deck for data storage.  There was a program called Visicalc which was fairly useful, it was like an early Excel.  I wish I had bought some Apple stock back then ...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on August 16, 2023, 03:05:27 PM
Graduated HS in '94.  Never even heard of the internet back then, only vaguely aware that there was something called "the information superhighway".  Didn't really know what that meant.  Never heard of email.  

College freshman in fall '94, teacher/professor is writing her syllabus on the marker board (not chalk!) and she writes her email address.  something.something@something.edu.  I remember thinking "what the hell is email"?  And why so many @, never used it before the mid 90's.  

My HS buddy had a sweet 486 computer at that time, but not many people I knew had computers, other than business owners.  Seems like we dialed up a few BBS, but there wasn't much to it.  Between '94/96 almost everybody I knew got a PC with Windows.  I remember Win 95 being a really big deal.  A few people in the 80's/early 90's had PC's with DOS, and Win 3.1 was neat.  I never knew anybody with a Mac. But there was so many PC's back in the 80's/90's like the Commodore 64 and all the Atari machines and Tandy's that nothing seemed to dominate.  

First year at A&M '96 I didn't have a PC when I started but I had one middle of the first semester or maybe early 2nd semester, Packard Bell with a Pentium 133 MHZ and 1 MB video Ram.  Zip disks became a really big thing, I had an external (still have it in fact).  

I never had email until I started at A&M.  You could log in from a terminal to some kind of VAX system, and there was a program (simple text based) you can read and send emails.  I don't recall needing a floppy disk.  I remember seeing this girl who lived in a dorm, and they had some kind of shared room on the floor with the terminals (monochrome monitor and keyboard, not even sure there was a mouse) and I logged in and opened my email and a buddy who was in the Navy had sent me an email a few months before I didn't even know it because I had never used it.  Wish I still had that email.  

The university had a dial in modem bank that you could call (included with tuition) and get on the internet, even in '96.  I do remember that you could get a client, like Eudora and one other one I can't recall the name of, and use email from your PC.  The university had a T1 connection, or something, and it was a big deal at the time.  People who lived in dorms had something called ethernet.  One guy had a CD burner and you could toss him a few bucks and some blank CD's and he could make you a playlist. 

A&M at the time had computer labs all over, Win 95 computers, mostly 486 and early Pentium and you could log in anywhere and retrieve your desktop and files, a lot like today in my company.  It was just rows and rows of desks with Gateway or Dell computers.  Some later had zip drives, and we used Napster and pirated the hell out of some music ('99).  

But the speed of all of this happening was indeed fast.  I remember I had a chemistry class in my 1st or 2nd semester that you had to do your homework on the internet.  It was tough, because all the units etc had to be just right.  Within a few years you couldn't imagine life without the internet.   

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on August 16, 2023, 03:41:56 PM
I got you all beat

I went to UT from 67 to 71 and I still remember a very large showing of the first electronic calculators

big crowd of students mesmerized watching demonstration of how they work
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 16, 2023, 04:16:24 PM
The Wild Bunch  - Damn Right,Butch and Sundance may not have murdered anyone but the rest of them seem to rack up some numbers.Unbelievable the loot the made out with

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPIhCGrgGrw
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 16, 2023, 04:20:10 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/YkCsNvB.png)
I'd drive a FORD at those prices
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 16, 2023, 04:22:07 PM
Calculators, yeah, I recall the big RPN (HP) vs algebraic (TI) controversy.

I started with an SR-10 that had exponents, but no logs.  I think it was $125 which is about $400 today?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 16, 2023, 04:38:27 PM
I still use the HP-20S from college to this day. I liked it so much I bought two more back when they were cheap. I'm on the second one now. Probably set for life at this point.

(https://i.imgur.com/0wvrf0V.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 16, 2023, 05:30:19 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Ray Chapman Fatally Injured by Pitch to the Head (1920)
For the entirety of his Major League Baseball career, Ray Chapman was a shortstop for Cleveland. He set a team record for stolen bases that would stand for decades, but his career was tragically cut short when he was hit in the head by a pitch thrown by Yankees hurler Carl Mays. According to eyewitnesses, Chapman likely never even saw the ball. He is the only Major League Baseball player to have died as a result of an injury received in a game.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 16, 2023, 05:50:59 PM
RIP,Chappy,Tribe won the Series that Season
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Riffraft on August 16, 2023, 05:54:51 PM
We had an Apple II+ on a roller cart when I started work in 1980.  The section shared it.  It had both paper tape and a casette deck for data storage.  There was a program called Visicalc which was fairly useful, it was like an early Excel.  I wish I had bought some Apple stock back then ...
Getting an Apple II+ at work with Visicalc was exciting.  Using format code to try to get it to print out a certain way was always fun.  We also had a Wang VP with a 75mg hard drive the size of a washing machine.  We upgraded in 82 I think to a Wang VS with 2 300mg drive both about the size of a washing machine. I bought a Commodore 64 with a monitor sometime in the early 80s it used tapes to load programs and had a 300 baud modem which I used to get on Compuserve, it was AOL before AOL but everything was totally text.  I upgrade my computer with a floppy drive as soon as it was available. Early days of computer were fun. Used to be able to completely take care of just about anything. Now I don't know half of what is going on. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Riffraft on August 16, 2023, 05:56:55 PM
Calculators, yeah, I recall the big RPN (HP) vs algebraic (TI) controversy.

I started with an SR-10 that had exponents, but no logs.  I think it was $125 which is about $400 today?
I bought an SR-50a for about $200. Had all the fun scientific functions.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 16, 2023, 07:45:39 PM
I have an abacus that my great-great-great grand dad brought back from the orient after getting shanqhaied - does that count?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 17, 2023, 08:49:03 AM
I bought an SR-50a for about $200. Had all the fun scientific functions. 
I got one my second year in college.  In HS, we had Picket Log Log metal slide rules.  I may still have that somewhere packed away.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on August 17, 2023, 09:44:51 AM
I got you all beat

I went to UT from 67 to 71 and I still remember a very large showing of the first electronic calculators

big crowd of students mesmerized watching demonstration of how they work
Jesus, and I say this with respect, you're really fucking old ! :72:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 17, 2023, 09:49:07 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/PZdAM2M.png)

A Confederate soldier stationed at Cumberland Gap in 1861 remembered a natural phenomenon that still takes place today and wrote about it in his official history of his regiment.

"A dense fog came drifting down the mountain hunting a place to cross. It was so heavy it could not rise above the mountain top and sought an opening in the Gap. On reaching the Gap it began pouring itself through, and so dense was it, for an hour the sun could not be seen, and part of the time we could not see an object ten feet ahead of us." - William Worsham, 19th Tennessee Infantry
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Riffraft on August 17, 2023, 10:32:20 AM
I got one my second year in college.  In HS, we had Picket Log Log metal slide rules.  I may still have that somewhere packed away. 
I still have my slide rule. Not sure I remember how to use it. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 17, 2023, 02:29:37 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/hro8aAg.png)

I refuse to say ...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 17, 2023, 02:43:00 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/hro8aAg.png)

I refuse to say ...
Why? Does it light your fuse?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 17, 2023, 02:50:47 PM
Why? Does it light your fuse?
I remember replacing those
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on August 17, 2023, 05:14:53 PM
Hell, I still replace some from time to time (water well and pumping systems).  They're not that rare.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 17, 2023, 05:24:21 PM
yup, I see them from time to time
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 18, 2023, 10:07:20 AM
On August 10, 1944, Red Barrett of the Boston Braves threw only 58 pitches to shut out the Cincinnati Reds 2-0 at Crosley Field. He threw not only the shortest night game in history at one hour and fifteen minutes, but also the complete game with the fewest pitches ever.
Several AP / UPI newspaper articles about this particular game never made mention of the amazing pitch-count record set by Red Barrett. In 1951, a fan asked The Sporting News about the least number of pitches thrown and received the following reply:
"On August 10, 1944, Charlie (Red) Barrett, then with the Boston Braves, used only 58 pitches in beating Bucky Walters of Cincinnati, 2-0. There are no authentic records on the fewest balls pitched in a game since the beginning of professional baseball, but Barrett's 58 is the lowest we have on our files."

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on August 18, 2023, 10:43:16 AM
We had an Apple II+ on a roller cart when I started work in 1980.  The section shared it.  It had both paper tape and a casette deck for data storage.  There was a program called Visicalc which was fairly useful, it was like an early Excel.  I wish I had bought some Apple stock back then ...
I used Visicalc as my first spreadsheet when I started work in 1986 on an IBM model AT with no internal storage. 2 6'' floppy drive's, 1 for the Visicalc program and the other for your data. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on August 18, 2023, 11:15:15 AM
My first computer was a Timex Sinclair 1000.  1K of memory and it was shared with the video memory, so you better make sure you watch your addresses or you'd overwrite your screen and lose I/O capability. I bought it used from a friend for $40.

(https://i.imgur.com/4RaxkWS.png)

My second computer was an Atari 400, with optional cassette tape storage drive.  I paid $80 for it new, using my lawn-mowing money.  This was a massive upgrade to 16K RAM, and the capability of using ROM cartridges.

(https://i.imgur.com/ylLOakZ.jpg)


And then finally my parents bought the family an Apple IIc, although they never used it for much.  It was pretty much all mine.  It had 128K of RAM, I thought I was in Heaven.

(https://i.imgur.com/FamA1wY.png)



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 18, 2023, 11:30:41 AM
Yeah, parents got a Commodore 64 when I was 5. They had no clue what to do with it. So I used it for games (Solar Fox and Frogger were my faves) based on cartridges, but we also had a cassette tape drive. My buddy and I also would use it for silly simple BASIC programs. 

Parents upgraded to IBM XT when I was 7. Used mainly for word processing and their tax stuff, and I would use it for a couple of ASCII-based games, and then later we'd play Ultima V. We also got a bootleg copy of Leisure Suit Larry, and their "age" restriction was just asking a few trivia questions at the start of the game that only adults would know--but my buddy and I being smart nerds could get through it just fine. 

Eventually they got the 486 that was the home PC until I left for college. My dad (an architect) always intended to learn AutoCAD but never did, so it was decently powered since it was supposed to be capable of running that. I recall going through Win 3.11, OS/2, Win95, OS/2 Warp, then back to Windows. Every time my dad learned how to navigate the OS I'd change it lol... That was also the computer running the BBS I set up... I was such a nerd that I paid for a 4th phone line (we had house phone, fax line, my dad's business line since he was self-employed, and then my dedicated computer line)... So I can I've been using computer message boards for 30 years now given that I was running a message board through the BBS and hooked into FIDOnet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FidoNet) at the time. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on August 18, 2023, 11:35:32 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/QT0sYbV.png)

My first computer IBM AT 1985

I still have it


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 18, 2023, 11:36:05 AM
Eighty-one years after she lay burning and capsized in the New York harbor, the French SS Normandie still holds the record as the most powerful steam turbo-electric-propelled passenger ship ever built. She is considered one of the greatest of ocean liners in history, a floating palace of Art Deco majesty so dazzling, they nicknamed her the “Ship of Light” similar to Paris as the ‘”City of Light”. The gilded first class dining hall was longer than the Hall of Mirrors at Versailles and guests included Ernest Hemingway, Colette, Fred Astaire, Walt Disney and even the von Trapp family singers, who all sailed aboard the Normandie during her career of 139 westbound transatlantic crossings from Le Havre, France to New York City. She was, for a brief time, Queen of the seven seas, before war, negligence and possibly sabotage, sealed her fate in 1942.

(https://scontent.foma1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/367415591_254415314128220_5235211303738387321_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=opNv9pCHrEkAX8pEF4J&_nc_ht=scontent.foma1-2.fna&oh=00_AfAL_FFhaQSzMqE00SpxPT7beMY7bLpTb37pdI4Hbf0TNQ&oe=64E447B8)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on August 18, 2023, 11:38:16 AM
Yeah I've been posting on BBSs since the late 80s, so I guess 35 years or so, now.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2023, 07:08:44 AM
The first home of the Atlanta Falcons was one of those multi-purpose venues called Atlanta Fulton County Stadium.  It actually opened back in 1965 for a cost of just slightly more than $14 million.  The Falcons shared the use of it with their Major League Baseball counterparts, the Atlanta Braves.  Like most of the "cookie-cutter" stadiums during the 1970s, Atlanta's stadium did not compare with the modern facilities that you see today.  It had a natural grass field all throughout its 32 years of use.  Moreover, it only had five private suites, and a seating capacity of just 60,763 for football games.  It was demolished in 1997 (at a cost of $66 million).

(https://i.imgur.com/OOm5VFB.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 19, 2023, 07:46:06 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

USS Constitution Defeats HMS Guerrière (1812)
The USS Constitution, better known as "Old Ironsides," is perhaps the most famous vessel in the history of the US Navy. One of the first frigates built for the Navy, the Constitution saw action in several wars and defeated the British frigate HMS Guerrière during the War of 1812. Later condemned as unseaworthy, the ship was saved from dismantling by public sentiment aroused by Oliver Wendell Holmes' poem "Old Ironsides."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 19, 2023, 08:58:51 AM
Graf Zeppelin under construction 1940:

(https://i.imgur.com/lZC9rdf.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2023, 07:42:57 AM
Double Nobel Prize laureate Linus Pauling is the only person to have received two unshared Nobel Prizes.
Pauling was a chemist who lived on the frontiers of science. Working in the 1930s, he was among the pioneers who used quantum mechanics to understand and describe chemical bonding. His interests and contributions were many – he published the structure of the alpha helix, investigated sickle cell anaemia as the first molecular disease, and was awarded the Nobel Prize in Chemistry in 1954.
After the bombing of Hiroshima, Pauling turned his attention to a different cause: peace. He campaigned vehemently against nuclear weapons and spearheaded a petition to ban nuclear testing. His efforts led to a second prize – the 1962 Nobel Peace Prize "for his fight against the nuclear arms race between East and West."
(https://i.imgur.com/YWNUtxZ.png)



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2023, 09:05:18 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/OueBArl.png)

Today in 1962 Ringo Starr replaces Pete Best as Beatles' drummer, first official concert two days later
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2023, 09:45:53 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/wUAcWlW.png)

August 2, 1997
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2023, 09:51:00 AM
The Braves left and the area turned into a hotbed of development.

(https://i.imgur.com/s2ip6FK.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2023, 11:49:17 AM
The SR-71, needed to be refuelled approximately every hour. Refueling was tricky, but SR 71 pilots were always up to the challenge.
Usually, refueling was the first thing that they did after takeoff. Under some circumstances, while flying from Kadena Air Force Base in Okinawa, they would takeoff with enough fuel for the entire mission. No refueling necessary it was called a Yo-Yo. but this was a maintenance nightmare. A few of our missions required the SR-71 to accelerate to Mach 3+ right after takeoff with a 65,000-pound fuel load. The Yo-Yo procedure had the crew chief completely refuel the plane to full tanks of 80,000 pounds of fuel. Then, with the nitrogen pressurization system working, they de-fueled 15,000 pounds of JP-7, ending up with a 65,000-pound fuel load and a plane that was capable of going immediately to Mach 3+.” The SR 71 crewmembers called it a “rocket ride”   because everything had to be done quickly. 
  Refueling presented special problems: visibility was poor due to the triangular forward window, and the helmet associated with the pressure suit caused undesired reflections. The receptacle (which received the fuel) was aft of the cockpit; therefore, the SR-71 had to fly under- neath the tanker. Normally, one would take on about 70,000 pounds or 11,000 gallons of JP7 fuel.
Typically, refueling took place at about 25,000 feet. As the weight increased and the air speed had to be held down to accommodate the slower tanker, the aircraft became thrust-limited; that is, drag increased as it approached the stall speed for this unique aircraft (there was no additional thrust available without afterburner). At that point, the pilot had to move one throttle slightly into the after- burner range to hold position.
Using one afterburner required the pilot to counter the asymmetry with rudder or just tolerate some sideways flight. Interestingly, the pilots developed the left afterburner technique so the aircraft would yaw slightly to the right. This way, only the left quarter panel had defogged air, and one could get that benefit if needed. Refueling was an intense effort for the pilot and was required two to four times for each mission.
Source: Rich Graham, Aloysius Casey.
 ~ Linda Sheffield Miller

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 20, 2023, 11:55:09 AM
The Braves left and the area turned into a hotbed of development.

(https://i.imgur.com/s2ip6FK.jpg)
I'd tell the Browns to leave if the results were the same and put the money back into the county.And take that shady sleaze ball Haslam with them 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2023, 03:30:24 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/sTNOh06.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2023, 03:31:46 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ZTDFs9h.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 20, 2023, 04:06:11 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/eaWgE77.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 21, 2023, 07:37:29 AM
Even the Founders complained about the dog days of summer. Here is John Adams to Abigail Adams, writing from Philadelphia on August 14, 1777:
"My dearest Friend
We are still parching under the fierce Heats of Dog days. It is agreed, by most People, that so long and so intense a Heat has scarcely been known. The Day before Yesterday, Dr. Ewing an eminent Philosopher as well as Mathematician, and Divine told me, the Spirit in his Glass, was at 91 in his cool Room, and from thence he concludes that it was above an hundred abroad in the Shade, because he says it is generally ten degrees lower, in his cool Room, than it is in the Shade out of Doors. Yesterday, it was at 94, abroad in the Shade. He placed his Thermometer, against a Post which had been heated by the Sun, and the Spirit arose to an 100, but removing it to another Place, and suspending it at a distance from any warm Object and the Spirit subsided and settled at 94.—How we shall live through these Heats I dont know.
If Howes Army is at Sea, his Men between Decks will suffer, beyond Expression. Persons, here, who have been at Sea, upon this Coast, at this Season of the Year, say, the Heat is more intollerable, on Shipboard than on Land. There is no Comfort to be had any where, and the Reflection of the Sun Rays from the Deck, are insufferable.
I wish this Wiseacre may continue to coast about untill an equinoctial Storm shall overtake him. Such a Thing would make fine Sport for his Fleet.
The Summer is consuming, and there is not Time enough left, for accomplishing many Things. If he should land tomorrow, it would take him three Weeks to reach Philadelphia. On the Jersey Side of the Delaware, is an ugly Road for him—many Rivers, Bridges, Causeys, Morasses, by breaking up of which, a Measure which is intended, and for which Preparations are made, his Army might be obstructed, puzzled and confounded in their March. His Army cannot proceed with­out many Horses, Waggons, and Cannon with their Carriages, for the Passage of which he must make new Bridges and Causeys, which would consume much Time, besides that he would be exposed, to the Militia and to the regular Army. On the other side the River there are several Streams and one large River to cross—the Schuylkill. And We have many fine Fire ships to annoy his Fleet. It would be happy for Us if he should aim at this Place, Because it would give Us an Opportunity of exerting the whole Force of the Continent against him. The Militia of the Jerseys, Pensilvania, Delaware and Maryland, would cooperate with Washington here—those of N.Y. and N. England with Gates.
Writing this Letter, at Six o Clock in the Morning in my cool Chamber has thrown me into a profuse and universal sweat."
Unfortunately, things were about to get hotter. British General William Howe landed at Head of Elk, Maryland on August 25, some fifty miles from Philadelphia. On September 26, 1777, the British army marched into the city, beginning an occupation that lasted until the following spring.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 21, 2023, 07:58:52 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/spSUWho.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 21, 2023, 08:47:47 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Nat Turner's Slave Rebellion Begins (1831)
Turner, born into slavery and sold three times as a child, led a slave uprising in Virginia that resulted in the deaths of about 55 white people. A deeply religious man, he experienced visions he interpreted as divine in nature and which convinced him that his mission in life was to lead slaves out of bondage. He and many of his followers were caught and hanged, and many more Blacks were killed in retaliation.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 22, 2023, 01:44:26 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/1gjBEdQ.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on August 23, 2023, 10:19:35 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/eaWgE77.png)

Dairy Queens didn't look like that here in Texico, they were always short, square buildings, like this:

(https://i.imgur.com/IvcmHIQ.jpg)

Or this:

(https://i.imgur.com/FqkQmuD.jpg)


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 23, 2023, 10:31:00 AM
we had both types
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 23, 2023, 10:31:37 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/1gjBEdQ.png)
helluva blocker
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 23, 2023, 10:46:04 AM
When we won a game in Little League, the coach would take us to DQ.  The one in our town was flat and simple.  I don't think they had burgers and such back then.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on August 23, 2023, 11:06:53 AM
When we won a game in Little League, the coach would take us to DQ.  The one in our town was flat and simple.  I don't think they had burgers and such back then.


I've heard there are DQs in the midwest that only sell ice cream treats.

Down here, for my entire lifetime, they've been burger joints that also had ice cream treats.  But my memory only goes back to the late 70s as far as restaurant menus and such.  It's possible they were something else, earlier.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 23, 2023, 11:11:43 AM
They may have had hot dogs back when in the SE.  I vaguely recall going there aside from baseball, but it was rare.  They had this screen window they'd slide open to take your money and give out the food.

I remember having gas credit cards, and maybe a Sears card.  I think I got my first "Visa" in 1976.  It had a $200 credit limit.  Each major store had its own CC.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 23, 2023, 11:22:32 AM
DQs were only in the big cities
along with the A & W root beer place

we'd get ice cream in the little mom & pop places in the small towns

not very often be cause it was expensive
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2023, 07:59:20 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/uR5KvPR.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 24, 2023, 08:21:01 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

British Troops Burn the White House (1814)
During the War of 1812, a year after US troops burned Canadian Parliament Buildings in the Battle of York, British troops retaliated by marching on Washington, DC, and setting fire to its public buildings—including the Capitol and the White House. According to some accounts, First Lady Dolley Madison refused to leave the White House until just moments before British troops arrived, gathering valuables, documents, and other items of importance
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2023, 08:56:41 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/vzv6TVJ.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2023, 10:04:26 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

New York Sun Publishes "The Great Moon Hoax" (1835)
"The Great Moon Hoax" was a series of six New York Sun articles discussing the supposed discovery of life on the Moon. The discovery—allegedly made using a massive telescope—was falsely attributed to famed astronomer Sir John Herschel. In the articles, the author claims that unicorns, bipedal beavers, bat-like humanoids, and other fantastic animals inhabit a forest- and ocean-covered Moon. The series was likely intended to boost the paper's sales
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 25, 2023, 10:49:29 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/369915016_847272310294474_1890608814101026528_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=An5rEyLv8owAX9QvVI3&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCg4zb130rzacScsdP6ObYA31Z2Uh0Tmk1ZZ_onD-eJyQ&oe=64EDFFE6)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 26, 2023, 08:12:14 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen Adopted (1789)
Adopted by France's National Assembly in 1789, the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen contains the principles that inspired the French Revolution. Influenced by the American Declaration of Independence, it serves as the preamble to France's Constitution of 1791. It guarantees rights to liberty, property, security, and resistance to oppression, as well as freedom of speech and of the press.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2023, 11:33:07 AM
Nicolas Léonard Sadi Carnot, the son of high-ranking military leader Lazare Nicholas Marguerite Carnot, was born in Paris in 1796. His father resigned from the army in 1807 to educate Nicolas and his brother Hippolyte—both received a broad, home-based education that included science, art, language, and music.
In 1812, the 16-year-old Nicolas Carnot was admitted to the highly esteemed École Polytechnique in Paris. His instructors included Joseph Louis Gay-Lussac, Siméon Denis Poisson, and André-Marie Ampère; fellow students included famous future scientists Claude-Louis Navier, and Gaspard-Gustave Coriolis. During his time in school, Carnot developed a special interest in the theory of gases and solving industrial engineering problems. After graduation, Carnot entered the French Army as a military engineer and served until 1814. In 1821, he visited his father, who had moved to Magdeburg, Germany. Lazare had seen a steam engine that had come to the city and father and son spent much of their time together discussing theories about how steam engines worked.
Carnot returned to Paris, excited to develop scientific theories about steam engines and heat; no researchers had yet discovered the fundamental scientific principles behind their operation. Most scientists believed in caloric theory, which maintained heat was an invisible liquid that flowed when it was out of balance. Carnot wanted to use his research to improve the efficiency of steam engines, which was only a meager 3% at the time.
Carnot had two key questions about heat engines he wanted to answer: Was the work available from a heat source unlimited? And can the efficiency of heat engines be improved by replacing steam with a different fluid or gas?
In 1824, Carnot published Reflections on the Motive Power of Fire, which detailed his research and presented a well-reasoned theoretical treatment for the perfect (but unattainable) heat engine, now known as the Carnot cycle. In the first stage of his model, the piston moves downward while the engine absorbs heat from a source and gas begins to expand. In the second stage, as the piston continues to move downward, the heat is removed; the gas still expands but this time through a temperature drop. In the third stage, the piston starts to rise and the gas is compressed again, driving off heat (isothermal compression). In the fourth stage, the piston continues to move upward, the cooled gas is compressed, and the temperature rises.
Carnot realized that the conduction of heat between parts of the engine at different temperatures had to be eliminated to maximize efficiency. He also introduced the concept of reversibility, whereby motive power can be used to produce the temperature difference in the engine. Also some of the theories he determined laid the groundwork for the discovery of the second law of thermodynamics.
Carnot died during a cholera epidemic that swept Paris in 1832, at the age of 36. Fearing they were contaminated, many of his writings were buried with him at his funeral—very little was saved. Unfortunately he did not live to see his work revered by other scientists. His ideas were incorporated into the thermodynamic theories proposed by Rudolf Clausius and William Thomson in the early 1850s. Rudolf Diesel also drew on Carnot's theories when he designed the diesel engine in 1893.
With his multiple scientific contributions, including the Carnot heat engine, Carnot theorem, and Carnot efficiency, Nicolas Léonard Sadi Carnot is often described as the "Father of Thermodynamics." His concept of the idealized heat engine led to the development of a thermodynamic system that could be quantified, a key success that enabled many of the future discoveries that lay ahead.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2023, 08:56:27 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
The Peace Palace Opens in The Hague (1913)
Often called "the seat of international law," the Peace Palace houses the Permanent Court of Arbitration, the Hague Academy of International Law, and the International Court of Justice, which is the primary judicial body of the United Nations. The palace was conceived in the early 20th century and was funded by American industrialist and philanthropist Andrew Carnegie. To show their support for the project, many nations sent gifts for use or display in the palace
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2023, 09:59:31 AM
The studies for the Anglo-French Concorde supersonic airliner started in 1954, and France and the UK signed a treaty establishing the development project on Nov. 29,1962. Construction of the six prototypes began in February 1965, and the first flight took off from Toulouse on Mar. 2, 1969.

Powered by four Rolls-Royce/Snecma Olympus 593 turbojets with variable engine intake ramps, and afterburner for take-off and acceleration to supersonic speed, the Concorde had a speed of Mach 2.04 at an altitude of 60,000 ft.

But, as far as is known not a single photo of Concorde flying at Mach 2 exists..

‘Concorde seems cute and familiar because it was used for transportation and designed in the 60s, but it was an absolute beast. Supercruising at Mach 2.0 for hours to traverse the Atlantic, it could effectively outrun a nuclear blast and catch up with the sun,’ says Andrei Kucharavy, an aviation expert, on Quora.


‘While operational, it was effectively impossible to intercept to all the jet fighters of its generation barring a stripped Electric Lightning pushed to the limit – including F-15, F-16 or F-104. Just to take the only known supersonic picture of Concorde [HERE you find the full story of the only known supersonic photo of Concorde], a completely stripped RAF Tornado had to be pushed to its limit to be able to rendez-vous with a super-cruising Concorde. And yet in the end Concorde had to slow down to Mach 1.5 to allow for a good picture to be taken.

‘Think about this picture. A state-of-the-art fighter jet, specialized interceptor, stripped to the bones and pushed to its maximum is rapidly running out of fuel, operational altitude and range. In the meantime, about a 100 people inside the aircraft it was trying to rendez-vous with are being served champagne, as it slowly climbed to its operational altitude and accelerated towards its cruising speed that it would maintain for the next couple of hours.


‘Even the F-22, developed almost 50 years after the Concorde and the reigning undisputed air supremacy fighter can only supercruise at Mach 1.8 and its top speed – Mach 2.2 – is the same as for a Tornado. If Concorde was still flying, it is unlikely it would be able to photograph it at Mach 2.0. Even if the Soviets back at the time were willing to lend the Mig-25/Mig-31, it is not entirely clear if it would be able to sustain the level flight with Concorde at Mach 2.0 for long enough to have a picture taken.’

Could the SR-71 Blackbird reconnaisance aircraft have gotten a picture of it easily, as it cruised at up to Mach 3?

Kucharavy explains;

‘Realistically, Mach 2.0 at 60 000 feet is well within the operational envelope of an SR-71, but it’s more the logistics of a double refueling that would have been a problem. SR-71 take-off logistics were quite something. Right after the take-off it had a couple of minutes to get to 25 000 ft and find a tanker and then had at most 2.400 NM to get do the round trip. Significantly shorter if it performed an excursion into the supersonic range and used its afterburners. I believe for a NY-London traverse an SR-71 had to refuel once in the middle, but for the rest of it sustained close to the Mach 3.2. So a parallel flight with Concorde was not out of question, but definitely would have been quite a mission to organize.’
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2023, 02:03:30 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/sUrixl7.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2023, 11:34:03 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/GzxDS79.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2023, 12:27:57 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/3X4bUye.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 29, 2023, 12:30:05 PM
1982 was a good year

soph at UNL

Huskers robbed at Penn St.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2023, 03:22:08 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/rzG6Ez6.png)

This is labeled a Polish Perturbulator with Disc Option
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 30, 2023, 01:41:07 AM
Martha Smith, John Belushi and Mary Louise Weller in Animal House (1978).

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/364675858_821885652637471_5499955535750730696_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=CF-GLg7ghkIAX-ZxFv6&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=00_AfC8364i4l5K2tGEWJ-lj1RW_jhHOFjLJwi1CDop-0DF6A&oe=64F37D24)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2023, 08:04:42 AM
In Deliverance, Billy Redden, who played the young banjo-playing local, didn’t know how to play banjo.

To make it look real during that “dueling banjos” scene, a musician hid behind and played the chords with his left arm in Billy's sleeve while Billy picked with his right.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 31, 2023, 11:27:08 AM
To increase the size of the U.S. Army during WWI, Congress passed the Selective Service Act, which was also known as the conscription or draft, in May 1917. By the end of the war, 2.7 million men were drafted. Another 1.3 million volunteered.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 31, 2023, 12:15:43 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Iroquois Confederacy Is Formed (1142)
The Iroquois Confederacy is a North American confederation of indigenous peoples, initially comprising the Mohawk, Oneida, Onondaga, Cayuga, and Seneca. A sixth tribe, the Tuscarora, joined later. The league was formed for both defense purposes and to prevent intertribal conflict. Although frequently referred to as the Iroquois, the nations refer to themselves collectively as Haudenosaunee, which means "people of the longhouse."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 31, 2023, 01:22:00 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/fgjHsok.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2023, 10:58:37 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Rebkxz9.png)

I remember Wooldworth, and S&W cafeteria.  Cafeterias seem to have almost disappeared, I guess the Golden Corral thing replaced them.  One survived in the little town where I grew up in ATL area.  Matthew's cafeteria.  It's not bad.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on September 01, 2023, 04:57:50 PM
And the kick is BLOCKED!

Sep 1, 2007

Appalachian State has STUNNED the college football world! One of the greatest upsets in sports history!


https://youtu.be/sOF6-GScIGo?t=11




Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 02, 2023, 07:52:38 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
September Massacres Break Out in Paris (1792)
After an abortive insurrection in June 1792, French revolutionaries followed it with a decisive one in August. Under pressure from the insurrection, the Assembly suspended Louis XVI and ordered elections for a National Convention to draw up a new constitution. Mass arrests of royalist sympathizers were followed by the September massacres, in which frenzied mobs entered jails throughout Paris and killed approximately 2,000 prisoners, many in grisly fashion.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 04, 2023, 07:55:43 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/HhbpenK.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 04, 2023, 08:26:19 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
Maiden Flight of the First US Airship (1923)
The USS Shenandoah was the first American-built rigid dirigible. Its design was based on a German zeppelin downed during WWI, and it was the first ship to be filled with helium—making it safer than hydrogen-filled crafts. A year after its maiden voyage, it became the first rigid airship to cross North America. While on another tour in 1925, it passed through a storm and was torn apart. Thirteen crew members died in the crash.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 04, 2023, 09:25:55 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/VtVlX8H.png)

1940
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2023, 10:09:12 AM
[img width=260.182 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/HhbpenK.png[/img]

Not gonna answer the other two, but Sichuan peppercorn isn't a chile pepper. So they may have already had it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 04, 2023, 10:18:50 AM
Yeah, that's what I am thinking, the spiciness was derived from other pepper types.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on September 04, 2023, 10:23:14 AM
Yeah, that's what I am thinking, the spiciness was derived from other pepper types.
True. They definitely added the chilies once they got them.

BTW if you like spicy Chinese, find yourself a good Hunanese restaurant. Delicious and they love some hot peppers. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 05, 2023, 07:19:39 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First Continental Congress Assembles in Philadelphia (1774)
Indignation against England's colonial policy reached fever pitch in the British North American colonies after the passage of the so-called Intolerable Acts. The First Continental Congress, made up of delegates from every colony except Georgia, was convened in Philadelphia to address grievances against British policy. At that time, only a few radical members considered the possibility of breaking with England.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: DunkingDan on September 05, 2023, 08:02:21 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/VtVlX8H.png)

1940
Nothing weird about that if you ever got out into rural areas. I think there was still some stores that had PO's  in then in Tn. up through the 90's. Probably was in some places in KY as well
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 06, 2023, 07:51:24 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Leon Czolgosz Assassinates William McKinley (1901)
In 1901, anarchist Leon Czolgosz shot US President William McKinley at the Pan-American Exposition, a World's Fair in Buffalo, New York. McKinley died a week later, and Czolgosz was convicted of his murder and executed that same year. Though judged sane during the trial, Czolgosz is believed by some to have been mentally unstable after suffering a breakdown years earlier.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 07, 2023, 08:19:53 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Last Captive Thylacine Dies in Hobart Zoo (1936)
The thylacine, known also as the Tasmanian wolf and Tasmanian tiger, was a carnivorous marsupial once found on the Australian mainland, New Guinea, and Tasmania. Often cited as an example of convergent evolution, it was superficially similar to a wolf or dog, though it evolved entirely independently of these animals. It was hunted to probable extinction in the 1930s, and the last captive thylacine died in the Hobart Zoo in 1936.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 08, 2023, 08:09:13 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Honda Point Disaster (1923)
The Honda Point Disaster was the largest peacetime loss of US Navy ships. On the evening of September 8, 1923, 14 destroyers were engaging in simulated combat maneuvers a few miles from the northern side of the Santa Barbara Channel off the California coast. Upon reaching Honda Point, seven destroyers ran aground and were wrecked; two others suffered minor damage. In all, twenty-three sailors lost their lives.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on September 08, 2023, 10:16:10 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
Maiden Flight of the First US Airship (1923)
The USS Shenandoah was the first American-built rigid dirigible. Its design was based on a German zeppelin downed during WWI, and it was the first ship to be filled with helium—making it safer than hydrogen-filled crafts. A year after its maiden voyage, it became the first rigid airship to cross North America. While on another tour in 1925, it passed through a storm and was torn apart. Thirteen crew members died in the crash.

It crashed near Caldwell Ohio in the SE portion of the state. There is a sign marking the place of the crash visible from I-77. I've driven by it a number of times. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 08, 2023, 10:21:07 AM
It crashed near Caldwell Ohio in the SE portion of the state. There is a sign marking the place of the crash visible from I-77. I've driven by it a number of times.
I've seen that sign too.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 09, 2023, 08:54:22 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Tajikistan Gains Independence from the Soviet Union (1991)
Russia first took control of Tajik lands in the 1880s. In the aftermath of the 1917 Russian Revolution, the Tajiks rebelled against Russian rule, and the Red Army did not retake control until 1921. Tajikistan was made an autonomous republic within Uzbekistan in 1924 and joined the USSR in 1929. In 1991, at around the time the USSR was being dissolved, the Republic of Tajikistan declared its independence. Civil war broke out a year later.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 11, 2023, 07:38:41 AM
In 1839 Charles Goodyear invented vulcanization, a process that forms molecular cross-linkages between polymer chains in rubber. The result is rubber that is stronger, more elastic, and much more resistance to hot and cold temperatures.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on September 11, 2023, 07:59:43 AM
Can imagine being up in a hot air balloon while a lightning storm develops or losing altitude and descending on power lines :o
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 12, 2023, 07:42:31 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Teens Stumble upon Ancient Cave Paintings in Lascaux, France (1940)
In 1940, four teens uncovered a fantastic archeological site, a cave system decorated with prehistoric paintings, drawings, and engravings that have been dated to about 15,000–13,000 BCE. Many of the paintings are drawn over former works, enabling experts to trace stylistic developments over more than 1,000 years. The later paintings, featuring animals along with signs and symbols, exhibit an advanced artistic quality and technical skill.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 12, 2023, 07:42:57 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Richard Jordan Gatling (1818)
Gatling, an inventor who began his career creating agricultural devices including a rice-sowing machine and a steam plow, is best remembered as the creator of a rapid-firing gun that was the precursor of the modern machine gun. He offered his Gatling gun to the Union army in the Civil War, but only a few were put into use toward the war's end. For a time, Gatling worked on improving the gun, but he eventually went back to devising agricultural machinery.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Temp430 on September 12, 2023, 08:44:09 AM
Helmet of the Athenian general Miltiades who led the Greeks over the Persians at Marathon in 490 BC.


(https://greekreporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/800px-Helmet_of_Miltiades_050911.jpg)

https://greekreporter.com/2023/09/12/miltiades-helmet-ancient-greek-warrior-discovery/ (https://greekreporter.com/2023/09/12/miltiades-helmet-ancient-greek-warrior-discovery/)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 12, 2023, 08:45:56 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Teens Stumble upon Ancient Cave Paintings in Lascaux, France (1940)
In 1940, four teens uncovered a fantastic archeological site, a cave system decorated with prehistoric paintings, drawings, and engravings that have been dated to about 15,000–13,000 BCE. Many of the paintings are drawn over former works, enabling experts to trace stylistic developments over more than 1,000 years. The later paintings, featuring animals along with signs and symbols, exhibit an advanced artistic quality and technical skill.
We visited there, it was very disappointing to me anyway.  There was another cave we visited that was far better, I forget the name now.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 16, 2023, 09:09:07 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Wall Street Bombing (1920)
At about noon on September 16, 1920, a horse-drawn wagon stopped across from the headquarters of the J.P. Morgan Inc. bank on Wall Street in New York City's Financial District. Moments later, the hundreds of pounds of explosives and shrapnel it was carrying exploded, killing 38 people and injuring hundreds more. Despite the chaos, markets reopened the next day. Now known as the Wall Street Bombing, it was the deadliest bomb attack on American soil at the time.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 16, 2023, 08:24:56 PM
Slim Pickens, Dr. Strangelove or: How I Stopped Worrying And Learned To Love The Bomb (1964).

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/379249245_695638415930116_854267728198673055_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5614bc&_nc_ohc=L00P7aw5mnoAX-RaIcH&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBApJJyk5yx0OCDJKug2aCovc5PJQMbNVu6ei5jPE-3AQ&oe=650AADE0)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 17, 2023, 09:27:58 AM
Medieval alchemists studied the North Star, believing it held the secret to perpetual motion.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 17, 2023, 09:28:59 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Joshua A. Norton Declares Himself Emperor of the US (1859)
Though Norton arrived in San Francisco during the California gold rush, he took up speculating in rice, a valuable commodity at the time, rather than prospecting. Unfortunately, he ended up losing his fortune, after which he vanished for a short time. When he reappeared, he was wearing a costume resembling that of France's Napoleon III and calling himself "Emperor Norton." For the next 13 years, he paraded around the city issuing "proclamations" and even banknotes.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on September 17, 2023, 09:55:36 AM
Operation Market Garden was launched on this date in 1944

Market Garden is the largest military airborne operation to date, with 34,400 paratroopers conducting static line paradrops and glider landings into the Netherlands to seize and secure key bridges and terrain that would allow for entrance into Germany. During the operation, Allied Forces dealt with insurmountable odds and suffered great losses.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 17, 2023, 10:06:59 AM
I don't know about the insurmountable odds.  German forces in the area were pretty weak,  The geography was the critical aspect, along with leadership.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on September 17, 2023, 10:22:23 AM
Just a crap plan all around that Monty demanded and got then didn't have the stones to show up for as it came apart almost from the beginning.Some of those odds were ignoring weather,intelligence,distance and a single elevated road for almost 70 miles. Plust the the 9th and 10th SS Panzers refitting in Arnhem. Britain had some good soldiers - that ass wasn't one of them. IKE should have been called on the carpet for letting him off his leash 34000 go in 17,000 came out .And that jerk tried to pass it off as a win.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 18, 2023, 07:31:58 AM
In 1974, President Ford declared inflation “public enemy number one” and urged the public to wear WIN pins, or “Whip Inflation Now” pins. At the time, inflation was around 7%. The pins were immediately ridiculed, and even worn upside down to say “NIM” or “Need Immediate Money.”
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 18, 2023, 07:36:04 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
George Washington Lays Cornerstone of US Capitol (1793)
The US Capitol is the seat of the legislative branch of government in Washington, DC. The city's dominating monument, it was built on an elevated site chosen by George Washington in consultation with architect Pierre Charles L'Enfant. The building was begun in 1793, after the president set the cornerstone during a groundbreaking ceremony that included Masonic rites. As it stands now, the building is the result of the work of several architects.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 18, 2023, 09:22:35 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/hjhJpGm.png)

When the US does things, it does it LARGE! During WWII, this Boeing factory was covered by a fake town, complete with lawns, houses, cars, signs and sidewalks. When viewed from the air, its almost impossible to tell there is a factory underneath.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 19, 2023, 08:41:54 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Giles Corey Pressed to Death during Salem Witch Trials (1692)
Martha Corey was a Massachusetts woman hanged for the crime of witchcraft during the Salem witch trials. A pious churchgoer, she had refused to confess but was convicted anyway. Her husband, Giles Corey, was also eventually accused but refused to enter a plea at his trial. In an attempt to make him enter a plea, he was pressed beneath an increasingly heavy load of stones. He died two days before his wife's execution.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 19, 2023, 10:00:27 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/PLnjqoR.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 20, 2023, 01:36:11 PM
In Richard Kelly's book, “The Andy Griffith Show,” Andy Griffith had the following to say about actor Howard McNear (Floyd):
"Howard, first of all, was a leading man in the San Diego theatre years ago. He never was in New York in his life. He developed this comic character, I believe, on The Jack Benny Show. Howard was a nervous man and he became that man, Floyd.
“Then Howard had a stroke and was bad off for a long time. He was out of our show for about a year and three-quarters. We did a lot of soft shows, that is, those that were not hard on comedy -- stories about the boy or the aunt. But we needed comedy scenes to break up things.
“We were working on a script one day, and Aaron [Ruben] said, `Boy do I wish we had Howard.' And one of us said, `Why don't we see if we can get him.' So right then we called up Howard's house and we got his wife, Helen. `Oh,' she said, `it would be a godsend.'
“Well, we wrote him a little scene. He was paralyzed all down his left side and so we couldn't show him walking. We had him sitting or we built a stand that supported him. He could then stand behind the barber chair and use one hand. Most of the time, however, we had him sitting. His mind was not affected at all. He was with us about two years after that before he died. Finally poor Howard died. I'm sorry because there was never anyone like him. Kind, kind man


(https://i.imgur.com/AvKvNbl.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 21, 2023, 10:02:01 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
The Hindu Milk Miracle (1995)
On September 21, 1995, news spread around the world that Hindu worshippers in India and several other countries were experiencing what they considered a miracle. At numerous temples, thousands of Hindus were spooning offerings of milk to statutes of deities, especially the elephant-headed god Ganesha, and claiming that the milk—which appeared to disappear from the spoons—was being miraculously consumed by the gods.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 21, 2023, 10:49:32 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/cvtXsKC.png)

Scene not that far from Paris, 1969.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on September 21, 2023, 12:30:52 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/cvtXsKC.png)

Scene not that far from Paris, 1969.
Houston Astrodome
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on September 21, 2023, 02:13:44 PM
Walking into that place as a kid in the 70's and 80's was a special experience.  Coming through that tunnel to view the full stadium was just a different sort of feeling, I don't think I'll ever recapture that.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on September 21, 2023, 04:25:29 PM
Walking into that place as a kid in the 70's and 80's was a special experience.  Coming through that tunnel to view the full stadium was just a different sort of feeling, I don't think I'll ever recapture that. 
Agree.  8th wonder of the world and all.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on September 21, 2023, 04:41:18 PM
a little trivia about the astrodome

the first home run hit there was by the late great

Mickey Mantle
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 21, 2023, 05:52:29 PM
I saw a baseball game there a while back.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on September 21, 2023, 06:10:00 PM
I saw a baseball game there a while back.
its been 24 years
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 21, 2023, 06:19:57 PM
This would have been ca. 1991-2.  We had a joint project going on with Shell Chemical and I was down there a lot.  They treated me well.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 22, 2023, 08:09:36 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
The Vela Incident (1979)
In the 1960s, the US launched a group of satellites to monitor international compliance with a treaty prohibiting all tests of nuclear weapons except those conducted underground. In 1979, one of the satellites detected an unidentified double flash characteristic of an atmospheric nuclear explosion. The data were initially interpreted as evidence of a South African nuclear test, but experts later determined that the flash was likely not nuclear in origin
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 22, 2023, 08:57:55 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/geoj0tC.jpg)

1970
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 22, 2023, 09:25:09 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
The Vela Incident (1979)
In the 1960s, the US launched a group of satellites to monitor international compliance with a treaty prohibiting all tests of nuclear weapons except those conducted underground. In 1979, one of the satellites detected an unidentified double flash characteristic of an atmospheric nuclear explosion. The data were initially interpreted as evidence of a South African nuclear test, but experts later determined that the flash was likely not nuclear in origin
LoL
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on September 22, 2023, 10:54:26 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/geoj0tC.jpg)

1970
make a deal
what kind pf a deal
ya know, a deal deal
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 22, 2023, 11:51:58 AM
The Vela Flash: Forty Years Ago | National Security Archive (gwu.edu) (https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/nuclear-vault/2019-09-22/vela-flash-forty-years-ago)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 22, 2023, 12:08:36 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/9ei2TLc.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 23, 2023, 07:34:45 AM
Charles Darwin invented the modern office chair when he added wheels to his own chair to move around his office easier.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 23, 2023, 07:40:58 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Typhoid Mary (1869)
Mary Mallon was the first person in the US to be identified as a healthy carrier of typhoid fever. In 1904, a typhoid epidemic was traced to homes where she had been a cook. She fled but was located by authorities and forcibly quarantined for several years. In 1910, she was released on the condition that she not take another food-handling job. Discovered cooking again in 1914, she was quarantined for life. Though she herself never had the disease, she infected about 50 people.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on September 23, 2023, 07:49:50 AM
Just her and no one else? Sounds like a Tammany Hall deflection
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 23, 2023, 08:41:25 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/nULUkfd.png)

The Bent Pyramid at Dahshur, Egypt. It was constructed in c. 2600 BC.
This is believed to be Pharaoh Sneferu's second attempt at building a pyramid. It is located about 35 kilometres south of Cairo and at 104.7 metres tall, the pyramid is the fourth largest in Egypt. It was constructed at a 54 degree incline, but halfway through construction the builders changed to a 43 degree angle, when they realised they had constructed it too steeply, which possibly caused structural instability.
It seems that from the shape of the pyramid, the builders made an error and tried to complete it as best they could. Once the inner section had been completed, a casing of white limestone was added to finish it off.
Although he had completed the pyramid, Sneferu was seemingly not happy with its final look and ordered a third pyramid to be built, the Red Pyramid, and it was built at the same angle as the top half of the Bent Pyramid.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on September 23, 2023, 08:47:05 AM
Ah,so it wasn't aliens but Engineers - I knew it !!!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 23, 2023, 08:49:52 AM
Yeah, it's pretty good evidence no advanced technical folks were involved.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 24, 2023, 06:37:23 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/aj1Sm13.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 24, 2023, 07:30:16 AM
The Water Clock

The clepsydra, or water clock, is an ancient timekeeper that operates by measuring the regulated flow of liquid into or out of a vessel. It is believed to have been used in Egypt as early as 2,000 BCE, making it one of the earliest known time-measurement devices. Early water clocks were calibrated with a sundial, and they remained the most accurate timekeeping devices until the invention of the pendulum clock in the 17th century.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 24, 2023, 07:41:37 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Secret Executive Order Allegedly Establishes Majestic 12 (1947)
Majestic 12 is the purported code name of a secret committee of scientists, military leaders, and government officials supposedly formed in 1947 by an executive order of US President Harry S. Truman. A major part of alien conspiracy theories, the committee was purportedly formed to investigate the aftermath of the Roswell incident—the alleged crash of an unidentified flying object near Roswell, New Mexico.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 24, 2023, 08:51:27 AM
a little trivia about the astrodome

the first home run hit there was by the late great

Mickey Mantle
On this date in 1956, Mickey Mantle became just the eighth player in MLB history to reach the 50-homer mark in one season. Mantle would win the AL Triple Crown that season.;

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/379536355_734254065379983_4517898152610241437_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=49d041&_nc_ohc=G7RiYDSgrGoAX9Mhukq&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfCoaIqXydt6zp4ekoeiaeHXOTSBRtbt42Hwthhmt3330Q&oe=65151AE2)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 24, 2023, 10:25:49 PM
Worlds Tallest Man Robert Wadlow Vs Andre The Giant.

(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/380998115_313199241333669_1524536946325890568_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5614bc&_nc_ohc=3Y6c-sFYUWsAX8FzbjD&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDCYAhNbuG2h_Wt8pkayZbV_aXOGFDrF_vP7HeA2ItwPw&oe=65164F41)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 24, 2023, 11:09:51 PM
Researching to see if '52 GT was worth creating for Whoa Nellie, discovered this:

the Jackets allowed 0 TD passes that year, including the Sugar Bowl, and picked off 26 passes.

Damn, man!

Many great pass defenses have had crazy ratios, but this is the first I've found with no TD passes allowed and 20+ INTs.  That's nuts.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 24, 2023, 11:11:08 PM
weird
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 25, 2023, 05:31:30 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/ziNS2pS.jpg)

The Beeholder's Eye -The bee's eye is a marvel of biology. It is covered with hairs that act as a shield against pollen and consists of thousands of small lenses called ommatidia. These lenses allow the bee to see a range of colors, including ultraviolet, and are highly sensitive to movement. This enables the bee to spot flowers and other sources of nourishment, as well as evade potential threats.
But what truly sets the bee's eye apart is its structure. Unlike our own complex eyes, the bee's eye is made up of many simple eyes that work together to provide a wide-angle view of the world. With a visual field of 280 degrees, the bee can see almost everything around it without turning its head. This is particularly useful for locating flowers and avoiding predators.
In addition to its impressive visual capabilities, the bee's eye also processes information at lightning speed. This helps the bee make swift decisions about where to fly and what to do, both essential for its survival.
Overall, the bee's eye is a crucial part of its anatomy and a testament to the power of nature. It has developed over millions of years to help the bee thrive in its environment.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 25, 2023, 09:53:37 PM
Dan Fouts (Oregon) was the All Pac-8 QB in 1972.
49% comp%
5.9 ypa
12 TD
19 INT
98.9 rating (120 is bad, 150 is good, 170 is great)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 25, 2023, 09:56:26 PM
did his team win the conference title?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on September 25, 2023, 10:34:22 PM
No, in 1972 USC went 12-0 and was one of the best teams of all time.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 26, 2023, 07:38:35 AM
quantity over quality
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 26, 2023, 07:38:52 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 
Saint Francis of Assisi (1181)
The patron saint of animals, Saint Francis of Assisi was an Italian monk canonized as a saint in 1228. Born into a wealthy family, he was a soldier and prisoner of war before he experienced a conversion in his early 20s. He sold his property, gave the money to the church, and began a life of poverty and devoutness. He soon attracted followers and became the founder of the Franciscan order of friars. Catholics believe that Saint Francis was the first person to exhibit stigmata
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 27, 2023, 08:09:36 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Wreck of the "Old 97" (1903)
The Fast Mail, a Southern Railway mail train nicknamed "Old 97," crashed near Danville, Virginia, in 1903. The derailment occurred when the train, which was being operated at a high speed in order to stay on schedule, approached a curve too quickly. It fell from the trestle to the ravine below, killing several people. The accident inspired a famous ballad that has since been recorded by Johnny Cash and Woody Guthrie among others.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 28, 2023, 07:33:57 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Saint Wenceslas Murdered by His Brother (935 CE)
During his reign, the Good King Wenceslaus, as he was known, was noted for his piety and worked vigorously to strengthen Christianity in Bohemia. His religion and his friendly relations with King Henry I—with whom he had negotiated a peace when Henry invaded—caused discontent among the nobles, and Wenceslaus was assassinated by his brother Boleslav I, who succeeded him. By the 11th century, he was already recognized as the patron saint of Bohemia.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 28, 2023, 08:00:25 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/riKBD0J.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 28, 2023, 08:14:26 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Saint Wenceslas Murdered by His Brother (935 CE)
During his reign, the Good King Wenceslaus, as he was known, was noted for his piety and worked vigorously to strengthen Christianity in Bohemia. His religion and his friendly relations with King Henry I—with whom he had negotiated a peace when Henry invaded—caused discontent among the nobles, and Wenceslaus was assassinated by his brother Boleslav I, who succeeded him. By the 11th century, he was already recognized as the patron saint of Bohemia.
Pretty sure there is a Christmas song about him.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 28, 2023, 08:18:35 AM
Pretty sure there is a Christmas song about him.
I recall singing it, long ago, with no clue about the story.  This is indoctrination.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 29, 2023, 08:56:12 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Inventor Rudolf Diesel Disappears (1913)
A German thermal engineer, Diesel invented the internal-combustion engine that bears his name, producing a series of increasingly successful models that culminated in his demonstration in 1897 of a 25-horsepower, four-stroke, single vertical cylinder compression engine. It was an immediate success and earned him a fortune. In 1913, while traveling by steamer to London for a business meeting, Diesel disappeared, presumably having fallen, jumped, or been pushed overboard.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 30, 2023, 05:43:21 AM
I did not know that.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 30, 2023, 06:43:52 AM
Weird 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on September 30, 2023, 07:18:12 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Inventor Rudolf Diesel Disappears (1913)
A German thermal engineer, Diesel invented the internal-combustion engine that bears his name, producing a series of increasingly successful models that culminated in his demonstration in 1897 of a 25-horsepower, four-stroke, single vertical cylinder compression engine. It was an immediate success and earned him a fortune. In 1913, while traveling by steamer to London for a business meeting, Diesel disappeared, presumably having fallen, jumped, or been pushed overboard.
I knew who Diesel was as I took some mechanics back in H.S. I suspect Carl Benz,Gottlieb Daimler or Ferdinan Porsche - one of those guys. Prolly all rowdied up from Oktoberfest - those Gerries can't content themselves with a one day celebration the have to go for those 2 week pub crawls
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 30, 2023, 07:19:39 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Film Icon James Dean Killed in Car Crash (1955)
Though he would become one of the most iconic actors in the history of Hollywood, Dean starred in only three movies—East of Eden, Rebel Without a Cause, and Giant. The moody actor was acclaimed as the epitome of the mid-1950s, representing the alienated American youth of the time. In 1955, his career and life were cut short when he was killed in a highway crash while driving his Porsche to compete in a racing event. He was just 24.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on September 30, 2023, 07:22:32 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1Syd7kRIuk
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 30, 2023, 11:51:33 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/t1efjEs.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 01, 2023, 06:26:01 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Los Angeles Times Bombing (1910)
In 1910, amidst the Los Angeles Times's editorial crusade against local unions, two brothers belonging to the International Association of Bridge and Structural Iron Workers bombed the newspaper's headquarters with dynamite. The resulting fire killed 21 newspaper employees and injured dozens more. The American Federation of Labor hired noted trial attorney Clarence Darrow to represent the brothers, James and Joseph McNamara, who eventually pleaded guilty.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 02, 2023, 07:26:14 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Pasilalinic-Sympathetic Compass Demonstrated (1851)
French occultist Jacques Toussaint Benoit's pasilalinic-sympathetic compass was a contraption developed based on his belief that when two snails touch, they create a telepathic bond. His "snail telegraph" contained 24 snails, each associated with an individual letter of the alphabet as well as with a snail counterpart in a second device. One could theoretically transmit a message by touching the snails, eliciting reactions from their counterparts.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 03, 2023, 10:06:30 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
O.J. Simpson Found Not Guilty in the "Trial of the Century" (1995)
In 1994, Simpson, a former football star, was charged with the murder of his estranged wife Nicole Brown Simpson and her friend Ronald Goldman. His trial was a media-saturated event that highlighted racial tensions in America and resulted in his acquittal in 1995. In 1997, a civil jury levied a $33.5 million wrongful-death award against him in a suit brought by the victims' families.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 04, 2023, 08:43:06 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
First Run of the Orient Express (1883)
Synonymous with intrigue and luxury, the legendary Orient Express was a passenger train that ran from Paris to Istanbul for more than 80 years. Europe's first transcontinental express train, it covered over 1,700 miles (2,740 km), and its lavishly furnished cars became the symbol of glamour for Europeans. It was discontinued in 1977 and revived in 1982 to run between London and Venice as the "Venice Simplon Orient Express."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 04, 2023, 09:45:15 AM
[img width=274.381 height=493]https://i.imgur.com/t1efjEs.png[/img]
I *THINK* that is a SoDak because it clearly has nine main guns in three turrets with two fore and one aft and the bow structure doesn't look long enough for it to be an Iowa. AM I right? I suppose it could be one of the North Carolina class.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on October 05, 2023, 09:56:58 AM
Apparently Henry Ford was a Jew hater.  He published articles in a paper he owned repeatedly slamming Jews.  Even Hitler and the Nazi's admired him.  It is said that when he learned of the atrocities committed by the Nazi's against the Jews he suffered a cerebral hemorrhage and later died.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 05, 2023, 02:13:47 PM
Apparently Henry Ford was a Jew hater.  
He was indeed, it was not uncommon back then in the US.  Joseph Kennedy was a Hitler admirer as was Lindbergh, at least early on.  That doesn't mean they hated Jews, but they likely weren't fond of them.

I've known quite a few Jews in businesss and as neighbors.  Most of them, nearly all, were not "Observant" but were still Jewish.  I never had any issue with any of them.  I never really got the antisemitism thing.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 05, 2023, 03:12:23 PM
He was indeed, it was not uncommon back then in the US.  Joseph Kennedy was a Hitler admirer as was Lindbergh, at least early on.  That doesn't mean they hated Jews, but they likely weren't fond of them.

I've known quite a few Jews in businesss and as neighbors.  Most of them, nearly all, were not "Observant" but were still Jewish.  I never had any issue with any of them.  I never really got the antisemitism thing.
Re Lindbergh:
I could be wrong, but I don't think that Lindbergh's reason for wanting America NOT to oppose the Germans was antisemitic. 

I think it was simply that Lindbergh, as a cutting-edge aviator, was impressed with German technology, didn't understand the difference between tactical advantages and strategic advantages, and thought the Germans were going to win. Ie, he didn't want his country to get enmeshed with a losing cause.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 05, 2023, 03:14:54 PM
You are correct, I didn't mean they were antisemitic or that they hated Jews, just Hitler admirers at least early on.

I think by 1936 or so, folks could reasonably have admired Hitler for how Germany turned around.  It would have been tougher to see what was lying underneath.




Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 05, 2023, 03:17:44 PM
Fallen Hero | American Experience | Official Site | PBS (https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/lindbergh-fallen-hero/)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on October 05, 2023, 03:43:33 PM
You are correct, I didn't mean they were antisemitic or that they hated Jews, just Hitler admirers at least early on.

I think by 1936 or so, folks could reasonably have admired Hitler for how Germany turned around.  It would have been tougher to see what was lying underneath.
Plus, how much real information did they really have?  Silent movies were still a thing, all you pretty much had was newspaper accounts and maybe some of those "Movie Tone News" type stories.  I don't think the average person thought Hitler was a murdering maniac until at least the start of WWII, and didn't even really fully grasp the total picture until the holocausts became public knowledge, even German people (although I'll never be convinced they didn't suspect something dastardly was happening).  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 05, 2023, 04:23:27 PM
I agree, Lindberg did visit Germany several times.  But he was "hosted" by Goering et al. and no doubt shown the nice things.  It was a recruiting trip.

I suspect some of us here would have admired Germany up to a point, they did some apparently admirable stuff, at first.  The downside was of course not publicized.

I give a lot of credit to William Shirer, a reporter over there, who tried to "tell us".  He later wrote an excellent book, which is a bit long, but worth reading.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 05, 2023, 05:01:54 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ycGngpJ.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 06, 2023, 09:20:55 AM
Astronaut Database

Supercluster's mission is to tell the human side of our greatest outer space stories with films, podcasts, artwork, events, and applications.

https://www.supercluster.com/astronauts?sort=&ascending=false&life%20form=human& (https://www.supercluster.com/astronauts?sort=&ascending=false&life form=human&)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 08, 2023, 08:15:37 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Great Chicago Fire (1871)
The Great Chicago Fire was a conflagration that burned for more than two days and destroyed about four square miles of the city. It killed hundreds of people, left 90,000 homeless, and destroyed some $200 million worth of property. Originally composed of mostly wooden structures, the city was rebuilt with stone and steel and became a center of industry. According to early accounts of the disaster, the blaze began in a barn owned by Patrick and Catherine O'Leary.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 08, 2023, 08:42:50 AM
Mrs O'Leary was a scape goat - from what I read
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 09, 2023, 07:04:42 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/kT3ve9D.png)

We've tried making jokes about the noble gases, but we never get a reaction... Born in 1852 was Sir Willliam Ramsay FRS, Scottish chemist and Nobel winner for his discovery of the noble gases argon, neon, krypton and xenon.

Sir William Ramsay – Biographical - NobelPrize.org (https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/chemistry/1904/ramsay/biographical/)

I was musing about his lab equipment and wondering what capabilities he had there.   I presume he had some means of making things cold.  And that hardly is typical lab clothing of course.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 09, 2023, 07:09:02 AM
Although argon is abundant in the Earth’s atmosphere, it evaded discovery until 1894 when Lord Rayleigh and William Ramsay first separated it from liquid air. In fact the gas had been isolated in 1785 by Henry Cavendish who had noted that about 1% of air would not react even under the most extreme conditions. That 1% was argon.

Argon was discovered as a result of trying to explain why the density of nitrogen extracted from air differed from that obtained by the decomposition of ammonia.
Ramsay removed all the nitrogen from the gas he had extracted from air, and did this by reacting it with hot magnesium, forming the solid magnesium nitride. He was then left with a gas that would not react and when he examined its spectrum he saw new groups of red and green lines, confirming that it was a new element.



Argon - Element information, properties and uses | Periodic Table (rsc.org) (https://www.rsc.org/periodic-table/element/18/argon#:~:text=Argon was discovered as a,forming the solid magnesium nitride.)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 09, 2023, 07:20:22 AM
Having discovered the noble gas argon, extracted from air, William Ramsay and Morris William Travers of University College, London, were convinced this must be one of a new group of elements of the periodic table. They decided others were likely to be hidden in the argon and by a process of liquefaction and evaporation they hoped it might leave behind a heavier component, and it did. It yielded krypton in the afternoon of 30th May 1898, and they were able to isolate about 25 cm3 of the new gas. This they immediately tested in a spectrometer, and saw from its atomic spectrum that it was a new element.

Kr boils at -153°C and melts at -157°C, only 4 degrees apart.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 10, 2023, 08:12:23 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Double Tenth Incident (1943)
During the Japanese occupation of Singapore in World War II, several Japanese ships in Singapore Harbor were sunk in an Allied raid. On October 10, or the "Double Tenth," Japanese military police arrested 57 civilian suspects—none of whom had actually been involved in the plot—and tortured them for months. Fifteen of the detainees died. After the war, 21 of the Japanese officers were charged with war crimes, eight were sentenced to death, and six received prison terms.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 10, 2023, 12:30:51 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/WgySoVY.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 10, 2023, 01:45:09 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/bcwQcaB.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 11, 2023, 07:24:17 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
The Morant Bay Rebellion (1865)
Jamaica was once a leading sugar producer, but the 1833 abolition of slavery there along with unfavorable British tax reforms led to the industry's decline. The resulting economic hardship was one of the prime motives behind the Morant Bay rebellion, which began as a gathering of several hundred black protesters but became a violent riot after a volunteer militia fired upon them. The British ruthlessly quelled the uprising and forced the legislature to surrender its powers
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 12, 2023, 08:04:58 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Iron Lung Used for the First Time (1928)
Invented by engineer Philip Drinker, an iron lung is a device that can produce artificial respiration for extended periods of time. It consists of an airtight metal tank that encloses nearly the entire body and forces the lungs to inhale and exhale by regulating changes in air pressure. Developed for the treatment of coal gas poisoning and first used to save an unconscious child in respiratory failure
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 13, 2023, 08:16:35 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571 Crashes in the Andes (1972)
While carrying a Uruguayan rugby team to a match in Chile, Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571 crashed high in the Andes. Many passengers died in the crash or shortly after; several more were killed in an avalanche. Stranded in the remote mountainous border between Argentina and Chile, the survivors were forced to eat the dead to avoid starvation. Knowing that the search effort had been called off, two of the remaining 16 eventually hiked out and found help.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 19, 2023, 09:33:01 AM
Paul Bunyan

Paul Bunyan is a mythical lumberjack and American folk hero known for his incredible strength and massive size. His oversized companion, Babe the Blue Ox, reportedly measured 42 ax handles and a plug of tobacco between his horns. The first newspaper article about Bunyan was published in 1906, and later pamphlets by William Laughead popularized the Paul Bunyan story and added to the myth.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 21, 2023, 09:08:15 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
HMAS Australia Is First Ship Ever Hit by Kamikaze Attack (1944)
In Japanese, kamikaze means "divine wind," a reference to the typhoon that foiled the Mongol invasion of Japan in 1281. In World War II, the term was used for Japanese pilots who made deliberate suicidal crashes into enemy targets. Such attacks sank 34 ships and damaged hundreds, killing thousands. In the lead up to the Battle of Leyte Gulf, the Royal Australian Navy's HMAS Australia became perhaps the first ship damaged by a kamikaze.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 26, 2023, 08:39:57 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Pony Express Announces Its Closure (1861)
At its inception in 1860, the Pony Express operated between St. Joseph, Missouri—the western end of a telegraph line—and Sacramento, California. Changing horses at stations roughly 10–15 miles (16–24 km) apart, riders carried the mail a distance of 1,800 miles (2,900 km) in about eight days, often traveling through hostile Native American territory. Though it provided an important mail link with the West, it was a financial failure, and the Pony Express announced its closure
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 26, 2023, 04:49:41 PM
Although there are dozens of active Arleigh Burke-class guided missile destroyers in the U.S. Navy's fleet, there's something special about the USS Kidd. It doesn't have any secret technology or weapons (that we know of), and its capabilities are the same as any other of its class. The standout feature that tends to capture the attention of even the most landlubberly civilian is the massive Jolly Roger that the Kidd is often seen flying from its mast.

The USS Kidd's pirate flag, the infamous skull and crossbones that hearkens back to the Golden Age of Piracy that spanned the 17th and 18th centuries, is the only one the U.S. Navy has ever allowed to fly on one of its ships. And like most bizarre things that happen inside the Navy, it starts with an honored tradition, one dating back to World War II.


https://www.military.com/history/only-navy-warship-authorized-fly-pirate-flag-sea.html (https://www.military.com/history/only-navy-warship-authorized-fly-pirate-flag-sea.html)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 27, 2023, 08:52:43 AM
G. H. Hardy on Srinivasa Ramanujan (https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/te2/1/16/270d.png)
He could remember the idiosyncrasies of numbers in an almost uncanny way. It was Littlewood who said that every positive integer was one of Ramanujan's personal friends. I remember once going to see him when he was ill at Putney. I had ridden in taxi cab number 1729 and remarked that the number seemed to me rather a dull one, and that I hoped it was not an unfavorable omen.
"No," he replied, "it is a very interesting number; it is the smallest number expressible as the sum of two cubes in two different ways."



(https://i.imgur.com/4VG1coL.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 28, 2023, 07:20:53 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Siege of La Rochelle Ends (1628)
In 1598, French King Henry IV issued the Edict of Nantes to restore internal peace in France, ravaged by the Wars of Religion. The edict gave the French Protestants, or Huguenots, extensive rights and control of certain cities, including La Rochelle, which became a stronghold for them. However, Henry's successor, Louis XIII, and his minister, Cardinal Richelieu, resolved to crush the Huguenots, and La Rochelle fell after a 14-month siege.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 29, 2023, 07:50:19 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Ticker-Tape Parade Invented in New York City (1886)
Before the advent of the Internet, stock quotes were printed by telegraph machines on continuous paper ribbon known as ticker tape. In 1886, New Yorkers became the first to use the tape as confetti during an impromptu celebration of the dedication of the Statue of Liberty, inventing what would come to be known as a "ticker-tape parade." Since then, ticker-tape parades have been used to greet dignitaries, honor war heroes, and fete sports teams.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 30, 2023, 08:48:20 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Orson Welles Broadcasts The War of the Worlds (1938)
On the night before Halloween in 1938, many listeners tuned in late to Welles' Mercury Theatre on the Air, missing the program's introduction announcing that it would be broadcasting an adaptation of H. G. Wells' The War of the Worlds. The innovative format, which featured news segments reporting a Martian invasion, was so convincing that it panicked the listening public and brought national attention to Welles.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 30, 2023, 07:38:23 PM
(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/395761586_734833312007430_462709378618449287_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=y5kIbo3egI0AX8GFFGq&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAPwVG6zZRGTh9yZwI5pIxkre9rbo13zfQjEXmk8_DxVA&oe=654562B9)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2023, 07:51:36 AM
FACT OF THE DAY:

The first Jack O’Lanterns were actually made from turnips
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2023, 08:15:30 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Enron CFO Andrew Fastow Indicted for Fraud (2002)
In 2000, natural gas and electricity trading giant Enron was the seventh largest corporation in the US. In 2001, it became the largest bankruptcy and stock collapse in US history at the time, devastating the pensions of some 20,000 employees. Fastow, Enron's chief financial officer, was one of more than 20 people who were ultimately convicted of or pleaded guilty to fraud, conspiracy, and other crimes related to deceptive accounting practices.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 02, 2023, 06:50:29 PM
In the 1960 Orange Bowl—the first time UGA and Missouri faced off—Georgia’s Fran Tarkenton passed for two TDs, and Durward Pennington kicked two PATs, in the Bulldogs’ 14-0 win over the Tigers.

It would be another 53 seasons before the schools played a second time.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 03, 2023, 08:42:07 AM
Sir Francis
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 03, 2023, 08:42:25 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Last Hanging at Tyburn Gallows (1783)
In 1571, a novel triangular gallows allowing for the hanging of several people at once was erected in the English village of Tyburn, which became so famous for its executions that thousands of paying spectators would turn out for hangings. During a 1649 mass execution, 24 prisoners were hanged there. The site became synonymous with capital punishment and was commonly invoked in euphemisms like "to take a ride to Tyburn," meaning to go to one's hanging.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2023, 12:28:10 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/bDMzaNE.png)

Omaha Beach.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 03, 2023, 12:39:54 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/X03NlrR.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 04, 2023, 07:43:51 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Japanese Prime Minister Hara Takashi Assassinated (1921)
Cofounder of one of Japan's first political parties, Hara served as prime minister of Japan from 1918 to 1921, becoming the first commoner to be appointed to that office. During that time, he suppressed labor organization while extending suffrage to small landholders by lowering the property qualifications for voting. Hara also attempted to reduce the power of the military, which led to his assassination by a fanatic.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 06, 2023, 08:12:44 AM
In 1963, an East German soldier named Wolfgang Engels stole a tank and crashed through the Berlin Wall. Though he was shot twice, he made it to the other side of the wall.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 06, 2023, 08:27:51 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First Flight of the Hawker Hurricane (1935)
First tested in 1935, the Hawker Hurricane was a British single-seat fighter aircraft powered by a newly designed Rolls-Royce engine. Together with the Spitfire, the Hurricane enabled the Royal Air Force (RAF) to win the Battle of Britain of 1940, accounting for the majority of the RAF's air victories during this period. About 14,000 Hurricanes were built by the end of 1944, and the aircraft served in all the major theatres of World War II.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 07, 2023, 03:04:32 PM
Grandfather Mountain rises 5,964 feet above sea level.
•It is located at the meeting point of Avery, Caldwell, and Watauga counties.
•The mountain is famous for its rugged character, and is home to many hidden caves and significant cliffs.
•It has been reported that Grandfather Mountain has experienced some of the "highest surface wind speeds ever recorded," with unverified speeds in excess of 200 mph.
•Grandfather Mountain is the highest peak on the eastern escarpment of the Blue Ridge Mountains, one of the major chains of the Appalachian Mountains. (Nearby Mt. Mitchell, the highest peak east of the Mississippi River, is on the western escarpment.)
•The Blue Ridge Parkway passes by the south side of the mountain and also passes over the nearby Grandmother Gap.
•Grandfather Mountain’s famous Mile High Swinging Bridge, built in 1952, is America’s highest suspension footbridge.
•Two rivers have headwaters on Grandfather Mountain, the Linville River, flowing east, and the Watauga River, flowing west.
•Many lesser streams originate on the slopes of Grandfather, including: Upper Boone Fork, Little Wilson Creek, Wilson Creek (North Carolina), Stack Rock Creek, and others.
•The primary massif (ridge) of the mountain is oriented roughly north to south, and features four named peaks:
Calloway Peak (5,964 ft.), Attic Window Peak (5,949 ft.), MacRae Peak (5,844 ft.), and Linville Peak (5,295 ft.).
•Due to the considerable elevation gain, the mountain boasts 16 distinct ecological communities.
•The mountain is estimated to be 300 million years old – with certain rock formations dating back 1.2 billion years.




(https://i.imgur.com/daifLEf.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 08, 2023, 07:14:56 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/8YPbSsp.png)

The Sears building and old Ponce de Leon Park in Atlanta (near me), probably 1955 or so.  Below is a similar view a couple years back (new buildings sprouted all around it now).  The Sears building is now Ponce City Market, a kind of upscale shopping center which is all the rage.  The old rail line is not part of the Beltline.


(https://i.imgur.com/u8uAuAD.png)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 09, 2023, 10:03:30 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Kristallnacht (1938)
In 1938, using the assassination of a German diplomat in Paris as a pretext, Nazi propagandist Joseph Goebbels urged violent reprisals against Jews. The resulting pogrom left 91 Jews dead and hundreds injured. Some 30,000 Jewish males were arrested and taken to concentration camps, and thousands of Jewish-owned businesses and synagogues were destroyed. The incident marked a major escalation in the Nazi program of Jewish persecution, foreshadowing the Holocaust.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: huskerdinie on November 09, 2023, 10:26:40 AM
If I remember correctly, the Berlin Wall came down on November 9,1989  (which just so happened to be my 33rd birthday!).  I do remember watching the news showing people climbing on the wall and others taking sledgehammers to it.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 09, 2023, 10:28:59 AM
If I remember correctly, the Berlin Wall came down on November 9,1989  (which just so happened to be my 33rd birthday!).  I do remember watching the news showing people climbing on the wall and others taking sledgehammers to it. 
Happy birthday!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 09, 2023, 10:48:36 AM
Happy Birthday!!!
:happybirthday3:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 10, 2023, 09:00:55 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Henry Wirz Executed for War Crimes in American Civil War (1865)
In 1864, Wirz, a Confederate officer, became superintendent of Georgia's Andersonville prison, officially known as Camp Sumter. Providing only makeshift shelters, the prison confined tens of thousands of Union soldiers and became notorious for conditions so appalling that 13,000 of them died. Wirz was later convicted of conspiring to murder prisoners and hanged, becoming the only person executed for war crimes committed in the American Civil War.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 10, 2023, 05:42:55 PM
SS Edmund Fitzgerald  sank in Lake Superior during a storm on November 10, 1975, with the loss of the entire crew of 29 men. When launched on June 7, 1958, she was the largest ship on North America's Great Lakes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Lakes), and she remains the largest to have sunk there.

One of the guys went to my high school about 6-7 years ahead of me
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 10, 2023, 11:07:13 PM
SS Edmund Fitzgerald sank in Lake Superior during a storm on November 10, 1975, with the loss of the entire crew of 29 men. When launched on June 7, 1958, she was the largest ship on North America's Great Lakes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Lakes), and she remains the largest to have sunk there.

One of the guys went to my high school about 6-7 years ahead of me
May I ask what school?

I was at a car show and saw a '75 Charger that had been purchased new at a Dodge dealer in North Olmsted by a crewman. He died in the sinking and his parents had to retrieve the car from his parking spot at the dock in Toledo.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 11, 2023, 05:47:32 AM
That's it,Some older guys I used to play with in Softball League knew him - Bruce Hudson
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2023, 07:37:54 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

George S. Patton, Jr. (1885)
Patton, nicknamed "Old Blood-and-Guts," was probably the most admired and most controversial American World War II general. Though he had a brilliant war record—he led successful military operations in Morocco and Sicily and spearheaded the spectacular sweep of US forces across northern France into Germany—he was a rigid disciplinarian and nearly lost his career for slapping a hospitalized soldier he suspected of feigning illness. In what event of the 1912 Olympics did Patton place fifth?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 11, 2023, 07:40:31 AM
Shooting,marksmanship forget what the catagory was called
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2023, 07:42:24 AM
you get an early morning Yuengling!!! 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 11, 2023, 07:49:59 AM
I'll have that as soon as I clear out that forest of Oktoberfests
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 11, 2023, 08:06:52 AM
my selection sucks today

Bud fat and more Bud fat

but, it's dressed in RED and it's 
BIG RED GameDay, Baby!!!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 11, 2023, 09:13:41 AM
Shooting,marksmanship forget what the catagory was called
Pistol?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 11, 2023, 09:16:04 AM
That's it,Some older guys I used to play with in Softball League knew him - Bruce Hudson
Cool.
The current owner lives out in Western Ohio, Findlay maybe. I'm trying to get him to speak to a club I do some programs for.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 11, 2023, 10:04:50 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/zD1ysIO.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 11, 2023, 11:15:27 AM
I was at a car show and saw a '75 Charger that had been purchased new at a Dodge dealer in North Olmsted by a crewman. He died in the sinking and his parents had to retrieve the car from his parking spot at the dock in Toledo.
This is mostly for @MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) but for any other car guys this will interest you:

I'm in a Facebook group called Ohio Car Shows and Cruise-ins. In May of 2020 right in the thick of the pandemic when everyone was locked down there was an invite to a Memorial Day car show at the VA Facility in Sandusky, Ohio. 

My wife was pregnant with our second at the time so I put an infant seat in the back of my Z28. Wife and one year old and I drove to Sandusky and there must have been 10,000 cars.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 11, 2023, 11:53:15 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/SV9f2Am.png)

Found this ad on my FB feed ....
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 12, 2023, 09:50:03 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Exploding Whale Incident (1970)
In 1970, a 45-ft (14-m), 8-ton sperm whale died after beaching itself near Florence, Oregon. Charged with disposing of the carcass, the Oregon Highway Division decided that half a ton of dynamite would effectively break the whale into pieces small enough for scavengers to clear. The explosion, which launched large chunks of blubber so far that at least one car was damaged, was filmed by a TV crew and became the stuff of legend.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on November 12, 2023, 04:52:28 PM
the 1970 exploding whale


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPuaSY0cMK8
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 13, 2023, 07:20:52 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/PhIq3vQ.png)

Alaska 1964
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 14, 2023, 08:48:33 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First Shipboard Aircraft Takeoff (1910)
A year after learning to fly, aviator Eugene Ely performed an experiment for the US Navy: he took off from a temporary platform built over the bow of the USS Birmingham, anchored off Virginia's coast, and became the first person to take off from a ship in a fixed-wing aircraft. Two months later, he performed the first shipboard landing, using the first tailhook system to land on the USS Pennsylvania in San Francisco Bay, California.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 15, 2023, 08:24:31 AM
Founded in the year 930, Iceland’s parliament, the Althingi, is the oldest parliamentary body in the world.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 15, 2023, 08:27:16 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Clutter Family Murdered (1959)
In 1959, parolees Richard Hickock and Perry Smith murdered Herbert and Bonnie Clutter and their two children while attempting to rob their Kansas farmhouse. Writer Truman Capote spent the next five years researching the crime and interviewing those involved, including Hickock and Smith, who were hanged for the murders in 1965. Capote's In Cold Blood was published shortly thereafter and launched the nonfiction novel genre.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 16, 2023, 08:10:14 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/L9vuTK2.png)

The Atlanta Zero Mile Post was here before Atlanta was called Atlanta!
Established in 1842, the Zero Mile post marked the end of the Western and Atlantic Railroad which started in Chattanooga, TN. The post was placed here at Underground beneath the Central Ave. viaduct between Alabama and Wall streets.
If you ask us, the Zero Mile Post represents the founding Atlanta and we are proud to hold that history here at Underground. It is now known to be one of the oldest Atlanta landmarks. Today you can find the mile post at The Atlanta History Center and a replica of this post beneath Central Ave.


(https://i.imgur.com/Nc2XHK8.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 16, 2023, 08:14:27 AM
A thing I didn't know for a long while was that the railroad came from Chattanooga south, the first one, to end here.  It connected the farming products around the area with the Tennessee River and areas north.  Later, more RRs were built from east and west and south and it became a connecting point.  Early city fathers didn't like all the RRs coming through downtown as it would often block traffic (imagine that).  They are still there, but now mostly under bridges and buildings.

A new development informally called "The Gulch" is being built over the surface RRs one can see near MB stadium.  The official name is Centennial Yards.

Centennial Yards: Connecting Atlanta's Downtown Communities (https://centennialyards.com/)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2023, 07:36:00 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/robNCJZ.png)

East end of Sanford Stadium, 1980.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 17, 2023, 09:52:58 AM
no color pictures back then?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2023, 10:08:48 AM
I don't know why it was not color, but sports photographers, which may have taken it, usually shot B&W.  The Tri-X B&W film was popular because it was "fast".  And Tri-X was pretty grainy, which this seems to be also.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 17, 2023, 10:27:00 AM
fast wasn't required for that shot
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2023, 10:38:05 AM
No, but a sports photographer would use B&W film for events, in nearly every case, even if it wasn't Tri-X.  There were slower less grainy versus at 200 and 100 ASA.

I'd never seen this view before with the start of construction of the expansion and folks watching from The Tracks, which was a major tradition back in the day.

Now the west end us open giving one a view from the bridge, which also is a kind of tradition.  Folks would camp out on The Tracks for a major game to secure their vantage point, such as it was, as it was free.  They used to charge a bit to watch from the bridge, now it's closed off for games and used as part of the entrances.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2023, 01:21:57 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/EN1pnur.png)

I think my wife would leave me if I ever took her back there.  I'd probably go with her.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 17, 2023, 01:26:10 PM
At least they planned for the growth. Nice Roadway.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 17, 2023, 04:29:11 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
First Computer Mouse Patented (1970)
While working at the Stanford Research Institute in the early 1960s, human-computer interaction pioneer Doug Engelbart invented the first computer mouse, so called because of its resemblance to the small rodent. His mouse was constructed out of a wooden box and two wheels set perpendicular to one another. The rotation of each wheel was translated into motion along one axis, and this information was relayed to the computer to indicate the mouse's position.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 18, 2023, 09:29:41 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/dYpDUJc.jpg)

What 5 megabytes of computer data looked like in 1966: 62,500 punched cards, taking four days to load.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 19, 2023, 08:29:25 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Jay's Treaty Signed (1794)
When unsettled controversies with England in the aftermath of the American Revolution threatened to involve the US in another war, President George Washington named Chief Justice John Jay as an envoy for the negotiation of a treaty. The agreement, concluded in 1794 and known as Jay's Treaty, averted war between the two nations, solved many outstanding issues, and opened 10 years of largely peaceful trade in the midst of the French Revolutionary Wars.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 19, 2023, 04:04:39 PM
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/lincoln-delivers-gettysburg-address

Today is to 160th anniversary of the dedication of the Military Cemetery at Gettysburg. 

Lincoln gave a speech in which he stated that history would little note, nor long remember what he and the other speakers said.

Most people here probably memorized that speech:

Four score and seven years ago . . .
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 20, 2023, 09:08:10 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Diocletian's Army Declares Him Emperor of Rome (284 CE)
Of humble birth, Diocletian rose through the ranks of the Roman military to become a high-ranking commander. His troops proclaimed him emperor after the death of Numerian, and he became sole ruler when Carinus, Numerian's co-emperor, was murdered by his own officers. Seeking to remove the military from politics, Diocletian established a tetrarchy, or four-ruler system, appointing Maximian, Constantius I, and Galerius as co-rulers and proclaiming them all gods.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 20, 2023, 09:49:24 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/9mBy0XD.png)

One last Happy Bday to the one and only Ted Turner, 85 today. Here competing in his great promo idea of doing Ostrich Races at a Braves Game in 1976. Only Ted.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 20, 2023, 09:50:47 AM
is that Pete Rose?
is that what hooked him on gambling?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 20, 2023, 09:59:04 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/avARMIL.png)

1927.
(https://i.imgur.com/AHrXPEA.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 20, 2023, 03:08:42 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Zw7MRU8.png)

Vehicles line the road at Neels Gap in the north Georgia mountains, probably shortly after the opening of the road in 1925. 

It's amazing how much has changed in a century.  Before this road was built, north Georgia was barely accessible.  There was a roll road in a different spot that was good for wagons, barely.  My Dad was born near Blairsville, GA in 1917.  He told me about seeing his first car, it may have been after this road was opened.

The road is still there, largely on the same grade, but widened and paved of course, it's US 19.

This was written by my cousin once removed.

Finally a Paved Road Across Neel Gap (rootsweb.com) (https://sites.rootsweb.com/~gaunion/mm051905.htm)



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 20, 2023, 03:18:21 PM
The Logan Turnpike

            
If you want to travel the Logan Turnpike today, you will have to walk over portions of it or use a two-wheeled vehicle.  The present-day Richard Russell Scenic Highway basically is cut through the northern roadbed of the turnpike.  At Tesnatee Gap, the Logan Turnpike led from Union County across the mountain into White County.  If you access it from the south, Kellam Valley Road north of Cleveland, Georgia will lead you northward to the old turnpike.  It was first known as the Union Turnpike. 
It was my privilege in 1992, while the venerable Charles Roscoe Collins, better known to family and friends as “Ros,” was still able to travel and give his historical accounts, to spend a day with him and have him personally give me a tour of the Old Logan Turnpike.  His knowledge and memories provided a colorful roadmap to places and times in our history which have long since vanished.
“I rode the turnpike many times with my father, James J. Collins, in our two-horse wagon,” Collins remembered.  As a lad, his major job was braking the wagon on the steep inclines.  He told of cutting blocks of wood to use as “scotches” for the wheels.  One time, he cut pine saplings and tied them behind the wagon to impede speed on the steep grades.  In the winter, he also traveled ahead of the wagon and broke ice in the streams so the horses could cross.
When he was about seventeen, his father allowed him to take the wagon and its precious cargo on the Logan Turnpike to Gainesville to market.  Collins felt that he had indeed “arrived,” being entrusted with the wagoner’s job without adult supervision.  His father had a country store and the cargo for the trip to Gainesville included live chickens, farm produce, chestnuts and chinquapins in season, and cured animal pelts.  These were items the country folk had brought to the Collins store to trade for “store-bought” items.  Likewise, in Gainesville, Ros Collins bartered what he had hauled from Choestoe at the wholesale houses for coffee, sugar, cloth, shoes and other items which his father would sell in their store.  Barter was the name of the game and adventure was par for the course.  The round trip on these trading ventures took five days.
In tracing the history of the turnpike, this notation was found in the “Digest of Laws for the State of Georgia” for 1821: “John Lyon, Joel Dickerson and Company shall hereafter be a body corporate by the name and style of the Union Turnpike Company, for the purpose of constructing a turnpike road from Loudsville in Habersham County, through the Tesnatee Gap in the Blue Ridge Mountains, by way of Blairsville to some eligible point on the northern boundary of this state in a direction toward the Tellico Plains in the state of Tennessee.”
 Specifications called for the turnpike to be twenty feet wide with a causeway of twelve feet.  No railroad or other road or canal could be built within ten miles of the turnpike for fifteen years.  Since, in 1821, Indians were still in the area, it is reasonable to assume that the turnpike followed an Indian trail.   The Union Turnpike was finished the same year it was chartered.   A companion road, the Old Unicoi Turnpike to the east, paralleled the Union Turnpike.  Unicoi was chartered in 1813 and led from North Carolina across Unicoi Gap, through the Nacoochee Valley and into present-day Clarkesville.  Clearing for the Unicoi Turnpike began in 1812.
These two roads, the Union and the Unicoi, were used by early settlers arriving in the area.  Once settled, the pioneers made good use of the roads as trade routes.
          The Union Turnpike became the Logan Turnpike because of the Logan family.  Francis Logan migrated from Rutherford County, NC, traveling over the Unicoi Turnpike.  He settled on March 10, 1822 in Nacoochee Valley.  His land grant was north of Cleveland in the Loudsville Community.  He married Hulda Powell on August 12, 1825.
Certain events have a way of setting off a chain reaction.  In 1828 one of Francis Logan’s slaves found a gold nugget along Duke’s Creek with a weight of more than three ounces.  This set off the famous North Georgia Gold Rush.  More gold was found along the Chattahoochee River, at Hamby’s Ford, at Bean Creek and at Black Branch.  Soon thousands of gold-hungry prospectors were digging for the precious metal.  When found (and they did find gold in them hills), the ore had to be taken to the nearest mint, Bechtler’s, in Rutherford County, North Carolina.  Both the Unicoi and the Union Turnpikes were used to transport the gold northward to the mint.  Later, as the gold rush escalated, a U. S. Mint was established at Dahlonega, Georgia.
Francis Logan had a son named Major Willis Logan.  He had extensive land holdings south of the mountains in western White County.  Records show that Major Logan purchased all rights to the Union Turnpike for $3,000.  The road then took the name Logan after the man who bought it.  He had a charter and operated the road for thirty years.  Members of his family continued to operate it until Neel Gap opened up in 1925 with US Highway 129 and the Logan Turnpike was no longer needed.
Logan Turnpike was seven and one-half miles over the mountain, from Loudsville in White County, northward across Tesnatee Gap, by Ponder Post Office and on into Choestoe where it connected with the old Union Turnpike.  Stagecoaches traveled from Augusta, Georgia to Tennessee.  Major Logan operated a stagecoach inn that took in overnight boarders and offered meals.  Tolls were charged.  The tollgate was near Logan’s Inn. 
[Next week: More on the Logan Turnpike.]
 
 
c2004 by Ethelene Dyer Jones; published Feb. 5, 2004 in The Union Sentinel, Blairsville, GA.  Reprinted by permission.  All rights reserved.



[Ethelene Dyer Jones is a retired educator, freelance writer, poet, and historian.  She may be reached at e-mail edj0513@ (edj0513@alltel.net)windstream (edj0513@alltel.net).net (edj0513@alltel.net); phone 478-453-8751; or mail 1708 Cedarwood RoadMilledgevilleGA 31061-2411.]

Updated August 23, 2009




Back To Union County, Georgia GenWeb Site (https://sites.rootsweb.com/~gaunion/index.htm)



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Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 21, 2023, 07:57:46 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Mayflower Compact Signed (1620)
The decision to settle outside the boundaries of established colonial government rather than within Virginia territory, as originally planned, led some Mayflower passengers to assert that they would not be bound by laws. Concerned Pilgrim leaders drafted a compact providing for the temporary government of the colony. The 41 adult male signers agreed to combine themselves into a "civil Body Politick" that would enact "just and equal laws" that were made for the "general good"
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 21, 2023, 08:32:43 AM
This is mostly for @MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) but for any other car guys this will interest you:

I'm in a Facebook group called Ohio Car Shows and Cruise-ins. In May of 2020 right in the thick of the pandemic when everyone was locked down there was an invite to a Memorial Day car show at the VA Facility in Sandusky, Ohio.

My wife was pregnant with our second at the time so I put an infant seat in the back of my Z28. Wife and one year old and I drove to Sandusky and there must have been 10,000 cars.
I have a couple of friends that were showing cars at that event. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 21, 2023, 08:37:19 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/dYpDUJc.jpg)

What 5 megabytes of computer data looked like in 1966: 62,500 punched cards, taking four days to load.
Reminds me of one of my COBOL programs in college. LOL
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on November 21, 2023, 08:38:37 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/PhIq3vQ.png)

Alaska 1964
I believe that is the result of the largest earthquake ever recorded to that point on March 27, 1964. It happened about 20 mins before I was born.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Riffraft on November 21, 2023, 09:20:26 AM
Reminds me of one of my COBOL programs in college. LOL
Yep, except we used Algol at Case Western
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 22, 2023, 09:15:08 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Blackbeard Killed in Battle with Royal Navy (1718)
Before turning to piracy, Blackbeard, whose real name was probably Edward Teach, likely worked as a privateer in the War of the Spanish Succession. While marauding in the West Indies and along the Atlantic coast, Blackbeard enjoyed the protection of North Carolina's governor—who partook of the booty. A British naval force eventually killed Blackbeard and took his head back to England as proof. Legend has since romanticized the notoriously cruel pirate.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 22, 2023, 11:01:45 AM
I believe that is the result of the largest earthquake ever recorded to that point on March 27, 1964. It happened about 20 mins before I was born.
No, no, no,...the earth shook about 9 months before you were born.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on November 22, 2023, 11:08:49 AM
Fun Florida fact:
Our defense only has 3 INTs this year. 
*Our QB has only thrown 3.
That's got to be a post-wishbone record for least combined iNTs, right???
.
*a WR threw an INT on a failed trick play vs Vandy


aka boring football
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 22, 2023, 12:31:09 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/3BZnsSE.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 22, 2023, 12:34:50 PM
Mohammad Abdus Salam[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-cosmic-anger-249-4)[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-The_Dawn_Newspapers_(Archive,_21_November_2011)-5)[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-6) NI(M) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nishan-e-Imtiaz) SPk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sitara-e-Pakistan) (/sæˈlæm/ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/English); pronounced [əbd̪ʊs səlaːm] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/Hindi_and_Urdu); 29 January 1926 – 21 November 1996)[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-kibble98-7) was a Pakistani theoretical physicist (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theoretical_physicist). He shared the 1979 Nobel Prize in Physics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_Prize_in_Physics) with Sheldon Glashow (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheldon_Glashow) and Steven Weinberg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Weinberg) for his contribution to the electroweak unification (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroweak_theory) theory.[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-Nobel_Prize-8) He was the first Pakistani and the first Muslim from an Islamic country (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_country) to receive a Nobel Prize in science and the second from an Islamic country to receive any Nobel Prize, after Anwar Sadat (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_Sadat) of Egypt.[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-Ghani_1982_i-xi-9)
Salam was scientific advisor to the Ministry of Science and Technology in Pakistan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Science_and_Technology_(Pakistan)) from 1960 to 1974, a position from which he played a major and influential role in the development of the country's science infrastructure.[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-Ghani_1982_i-xi-9)[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-ICTP-10) Salam contributed to numerous developments in theoretical and particle physics in Pakistan.[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-ICTP-10) He was the founding director of the Space and Upper Atmosphere Research Commission (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_and_Upper_Atmosphere_Research_Commission) (SUPARCO), and responsible for the establishment of the Theoretical Physics Group (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_Institute_of_Nuclear_Science_and_Technology#Research_divisions) (TPG).[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-Rahman_1998_75–76-11)[12] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-Yahoo!_News,_9_July_2012-12) For this, he is viewed as the "scientific father"[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-The_Dawn_Newspapers_(Archive,_21_November_2011)-5)[13] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-Muslim_Times,_Lahore-13) of this program.[14] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-Dawn_News_International,_Archive_2004-14)[15] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-15)[16] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-16) In 1974, Abdus Salam departed from his country in protest after the Parliament of Pakistan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_of_Pakistan) passed unanimously a parliamentary bill (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_Constitution_of_Pakistan) declaring members of the Ahmadiyya Muslim (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya_Muslim) community, to which Salam belonged, non-Muslim.[17] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-:0-17) In 1998, following the country's Chagai-I (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chagai-I) nuclear tests, the Government of Pakistan issued a commemorative stamp, as a part of "Scientists of Pakistan", to honour the services of Salam.[18] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-Pakistan_Post_Office_Department-18)
Salam's notable achievements include the Pati–Salam model (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pati–Salam_model), magnetic photon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_photon), vector meson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_meson), Grand Unified Theory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Unified_Theory), work on supersymmetry (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersymmetry) and, most importantly, electroweak theory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroweak_theory), for which he was awarded the Nobel Prize.[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-Nobel_Prize-8) Salam made a major contribution in quantum field theory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_field_theory) and in the advancement of Mathematics at Imperial College London (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_College_London). With his student, Riazuddin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riazuddin_(physicist)), Salam made important contributions to the modern theory on neutrinos, neutron stars (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_stars) and black holes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_holes), as well as the work on modernising quantum mechanics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mechanics) and quantum field theory. As a teacher and science promoter, Salam is remembered as a founder and scientific father of mathematical (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_physics) and theoretical physics in Pakistan during his term as the chief scientific advisor to the president.[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-ICTP-10)[19] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-19) Salam heavily contributed to the rise of Pakistani physics within the global physics community (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CERN).[20] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-CERN_Courier-20)[21] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-21) Up until shortly before his death, Salam continued to contribute to physics, and to advocate for the development of science in third-world countries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World).[22] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam#cite_note-Abdus_Salam_-_Biography-22)


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 23, 2023, 08:57:16 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/SaCyWjY.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 23, 2023, 09:05:43 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/7RGBDj9.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 26, 2023, 08:22:35 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Public Streetcar Service Begins in New York City (1832)
The first streetcars, which were drawn by horses, were introduced in New York City. The first electric streetcar system for urban passenger service in the US was introduced about 50 years later in Cleveland. The use of streetcars expanded in the US until World War I. Since then, most have been replaced by buses, although many still remain in use, and new streetcar systems have been introduced in some cities.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 26, 2023, 09:05:47 AM
Street cars don't work well from what I can see aside from a tourist attraction.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 26, 2023, 09:07:08 AM
similar to light rail trains and such

busses more flexible
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 26, 2023, 09:15:49 AM
Light rail works OK in some places, better than street cars.  The nice thing about busses is one can change their routes.  I think dedicated bus lanes could be a good idea further out of an urban area where land is available.  There is some being built here, Bus Rapid Transit they call it, it will use electric busses.  But folks don't like busses.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 26, 2023, 10:46:25 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/5sMzkHN.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 26, 2023, 01:07:56 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/jjaSkuH.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 26, 2023, 05:15:14 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/wz5Q5Bn.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on November 26, 2023, 05:26:52 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/wz5Q5Bn.png)
That's hilarious. 

I'm not a fan of it, BTW. It's one thing to say "pineapple should never be on pizza", but it's more that it's not a good balance. 

Years back, I was introduced to the pineapple/pepperoni/jalapeno pizza. That's where you get the balance. The sweetness of the pineapple is balanced by the heat of the jalapeno. The acidity of the pineapple is a good foil the fat and grease from the pepperoni. All in all, it actually just works
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 27, 2023, 08:06:51 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Bank Robber "Baby Face" Nelson Killed in FBI Shootout (1934)
Born Lester Gillis, George "Baby Face" Nelson began his life of crime in his early teens. After a series of auto thefts and bank robberies, Nelson joined the notorious Dillinger gang, which was being pursued by the FBI. Despite his innocent-sounding nickname—given for his youthful appearance and small stature—Nelson hated police and FBI agents and hunted them at every opportunity, a pastime that ultimately led to his undoing.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 27, 2023, 08:33:56 PM
Fort Jefferson in Dry Tortugas National Park, Florida - 1940 vs. 2005



(https://i.imgur.com/HG1uR6V.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 28, 2023, 08:41:25 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/iKyX7oZ.png)

I recall when we redid our kitchen in Cincy some folks saying stainless was on the way out.  Seems not, but formica is out.

Formica laminate was invented in 1912 by Daniel J. O'Conor and Herbert A. Faber, while they were working at Westinghouse (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westinghouse_Electric_Corporation), resulting in a patent filing on 1 February 1913.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formica_(plastic)#cite_note-hist-1)[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formica_(plastic)#cite_note-2) U.S. Patent No. 1,284,432 was granted on 12 November 1918.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formica_(plastic)#cite_note-3) O'Conor and Faber originally conceived it as a substitute for mica (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mica) used as electrical insulation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_insulation), made of wrapped woven fabric coated with Bakelite (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakelite) thermosetting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermosetting) resin, then slit lengthwise, flattened, and cured in a press.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 28, 2023, 09:21:57 AM
well, the almond and avocado colored appliances are out
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 28, 2023, 09:22:07 AM
Shays' Rebellion

Debt-ridden farmers, struck by the economic depression that followed the American Revolution, petitioned the Massachusetts state senate to halt foreclosure of mortgages on their property and imprisonment for debt. When the senate failed to undertake these reforms, armed rebels, led by Daniel Shays and other local leaders, forcibly closed a number of debtors' courts. The rebellion, suppressed in 1787, less than a year after it began
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on November 28, 2023, 09:50:39 AM
[img width=274.381 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/iKyX7oZ.png[/img]

I recall when we redid our kitchen in Cincy some folks saying stainless was on the way out.  Seems not, but formica is out.

Formica laminate was invented in 1912 by Daniel J. O'Conor and Herbert A. Faber, while they were working at Westinghouse (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westinghouse_Electric_Corporation), resulting in a patent filing on 1 February 1913.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formica_(plastic)#cite_note-hist-1)[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formica_(plastic)#cite_note-2) U.S. Patent No. 1,284,432 was granted on 12 November 1918.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formica_(plastic)#cite_note-3) O'Conor and Faber originally conceived it as a substitute for mica (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mica) used as electrical insulation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_insulation), made of wrapped woven fabric coated with Bakelite (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakelite) thermosetting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermosetting) resin, then slit lengthwise, flattened, and cured in a press.
I've glued that stuff to LOTS of countertops I've made.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 28, 2023, 08:43:15 PM
not weird

(https://i.imgur.com/huCofq9.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 29, 2023, 09:31:39 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Zong Massacre: Slaves Thrown Overboard (1781)
In 1781, overcrowding, disease, and malnutrition killed several crew members and dozens of African slaves being transported to Jamaica as "cargo" on the British slave ship Zong. Knowing that insurers would not compensate his employers for sick slaves or those dead from illness—but would offer compensation for drowned slaves—the ship's captain decided to throw more than 130 slaves overboard. What landmark decision resulted from the court case that followed?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 29, 2023, 04:51:31 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/1UmQC1R.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 29, 2023, 05:02:10 PM
weird

I hate Bob Barker!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 29, 2023, 06:06:24 PM
you're gonna taser all the gray hair old dudes??

what did your Gramps do to you?


:043:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2023, 05:29:09 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/3mKhvIj.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2023, 05:39:04 AM
What Orwell feared were those who would ban books. What Huxley feared was that there would be no reason to ban a book, for there would be no one who wanted to read one. Orwell feared those who would deprive us of information. Huxley feared those who would give us so much that we would be reduced to passivity and egoism. Orwell feared that the truth would be concealed from us. Huxley feared the truth would be drowned in a sea of irrelevance. Orwell feared we would become a captive culture. Huxley feared we would become a trivial culture, preoccupied with some equivalent of the feelies, the orgy porgy, and the centrifugal bumblepuppy.

As Huxley remarked in Brave New World Revisited, the civil libertarians and rationalists who are ever on the alert to oppose tyranny "failed to take into account man's almost infinite appetite for distractions."

"In 1984", Huxley added, "people are controlled by inflicting pain. In Brave New World, they are controlled by inflicting pleasure."
In short, Orwell feared that what we hate will ruin us. Huxley feared that what we love will ruin us. ~Neil Postman
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 30, 2023, 09:08:00 AM
they were both right
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 30, 2023, 09:08:14 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Steam Locomotive Flying Scotsman Sets Speed Record (1934)
The legendary no. 4472 Flying Scotsman steam locomotive was built by the London and North Eastern Railway in 1923 for use as a long-distance express train. The no. 4472 holds a number of records, including being the first locomotive to complete a nonstop run from London, England, to Edinburgh, Scotland. In 1934, the Flying Scotsman became the first steam locomotive to be officially recorded at 100 mph (160.9 km/h).
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2023, 03:42:31 PM
Can you name this Harvard football player?  1968, plaued OL.

(https://i.imgur.com/8EGhsbk.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 30, 2023, 07:32:34 PM
I'm not much of a movie guy, but looks like Tommy Lee Jones
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 30, 2023, 08:55:16 PM
Looked it up you are correct,no Yuengling I drank it
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 01, 2023, 07:12:07 AM
It is, at Harvard, played four years, was team MVP twice apparently, as an OL at 195 lbs.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 01, 2023, 09:28:57 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Our Lady of the Angels School Fire (1958)
Shortly before classes were dismissed on December 1, 1958, a fire broke out at the foot of a stairway in the Our Lady of the Angels School in Chicago, Illinois. A total of 92 students and 3 nuns died and another 100 were seriously injured when smoke, heat, and fire cut off their normal means of escape. Many perished jumping from second-floor windows. The tragedy dominated headlines and led to nationwide changes to school fire safety regulations.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 01, 2023, 09:40:23 AM
It is, at Harvard, played four years, was team MVP twice apparently, as an OL at 195 lbs.
looking at the Husker's 68 roster the guards and tackles were in the 220-230 range.
But, the Husker O-line has always been bigger than Harvard's
Boyd Epley started the strength program in 69
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 01, 2023, 01:25:51 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/eyyAPPe.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 01, 2023, 01:35:32 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/6JbjoiG.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 02, 2023, 07:06:34 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/UOgm3If.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 02, 2023, 08:08:46 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
The Monroe Doctrine (1823)
In his 1823 address to Congress, US President James Monroe laid out the terms of the American foreign policy that would become known as the Monroe Doctrine, effectively declaring the Western Hemisphere off-limits to European colonization. Concerned that European powers would attempt to restore Spain's former colonies, he declared that any attempt by a European power to control any nation in the Western Hemisphere would be viewed as a hostile act.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 03, 2023, 10:19:25 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

World's First Human Heart Transplant (1967)
After studying medicine at the University of Cape Town, South African surgeon Christiaan Barnard came to the US in 1955 to improve his surgical technique. There, he performed his first heart operation before returning to Cape Town, where he was soon appointed director of surgical research at the Groote Schuur Hospital. He made medical history there in 1967 when he completed the world's first human heart transplant on 55-year-old Louis Washkansky.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 03, 2023, 09:31:34 PM
Launching ramp at the V-1 flying bomb site at Val Ygot, Normandy, France

(https://i.imgur.com/SwFnG4v.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 04, 2023, 07:23:23 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

McGurk's Bar Bombing (1971)
One of the first major atrocities of "the Troubles," a period of political violence in Ireland that began in the late 1960s, the bombing of Belfast's predominantly Roman Catholic Tramore Bar—better known as McGurk's—killed 15 people and injured 17. The first major attack on civilians by any of the region's paramilitary organizations, the bombing provoked widespread political and public reaction.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 04, 2023, 03:55:48 PM
Electricity for Atlanta: Six Hydroelectric Dams, A Submerged Town and Silenced Waterfalls – Rabun County Historical Society (rabunhistory.org) (https://rabunhistory.org/articles/electricity-for-atlanta-six-hydroelectric-dams-a-submerged-town-and-silenced-waterfalls/)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 05, 2023, 10:02:23 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Papal Bull Bestows Authority to Prosecute Witchcraft in Germany (1484)
In 1484, Pope Innocent VIII issued the papal bull Summis desiderantes affectibus—Desiring with supreme ardor. Sometimes blamed for inspiring the witch-hunts that became increasingly common in the coming centuries, the bull recognizes the existence of witches, gives Dominican Inquisitor Heinrich Kramer authority to prosecute witchcraft in Germany, and urges local ecclesiastical authorities to cooperate with inquisitors.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 05, 2023, 01:17:04 PM
2005 on this date utee 94 gave birth to the Beer Thread,killing time between the season and the National Championship.Use to be a hell of a lot more posts,either the herd has been thinned out or ya'll turned into a bunch a teasips
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 06, 2023, 07:42:45 AM
I think maybe quite possibly he could be the least heralded scientists after Maxwell who had an impact on things, possibly.

(https://i.imgur.com/hscrgL2.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 06, 2023, 09:31:01 AM
[img width=274.381 height=324]https://i.imgur.com/UOgm3If.png[/img]
Iowa in the Panama Canal.

The Iowa's and all prior US Battleships were limited to a size that could fit through the Panama Canal such that the USN would be able to quickly transfer ships between the Atlantic and the Pacific.

The Iowa Class ships are 108'2" wide so they fit in the 110' wide Panama Canal locks with 22" to spare.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 06, 2023, 09:33:43 AM
A ship also can go faster if it's length to width ratio is higher.  This is true even if the width is constant, for a given amount of power of course.  Some argue the Iowas are more akin to battle cruisers, which to me is just arguing over terminology.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 06, 2023, 09:43:02 AM
A ship also can go faster if it's length to width ratio is higher.  This is true even if the width is constant, for a given amount of power of course.  Some argue the Iowas are more akin to battle cruisers, which to me is just arguing over terminology.
For whatever reason the USN is absolutely insistent that they never actually had any "Battlecruisers". 

The USN did authorize and commence construction of six Lexington Class Battlecruisers shortly after WWI but they were not permitted by the Washington Naval Treaty. Four were scrapped before completion and the other two were converted and became the Lexington Class Aircraft Carriers. 

It has been suggested that the North Carolina's, the Iowa's, and the Alaska Class "Large Cruisers" were technically "Battlecruisers". 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 06, 2023, 09:46:19 AM
Yup, these are just terms, to me.  Call it a banana if you want.  I like the term "battle cruiser", like in Star Trek.  It sounds, cool.

It's interesting, to me, that submarines today are among the largest displacement naval vessels (the US calls them "boats") aside from carriers.  We don't really have 15,000 ton cruisers any more, maybe the Russians do.  I'd call the Kirov a BC.  

I don't see a good reason to argue over such terms.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 06, 2023, 10:31:27 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/xpQBrpx.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 07, 2023, 07:37:56 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/ROMd3Bm.png)

This is higher than I would have guessed.  But maybe it's about right, globally, humans had spread quite a bit by then, like a virus.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 07, 2023, 08:44:50 AM
82 years ago this morning about 3,000 Americans were killed in the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 07, 2023, 09:10:51 AM
82 years
long time
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 07, 2023, 09:11:11 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
"The Blue Marble" Photograph Taken by Apollo 17 Crew (1972)
"The Blue Marble" is a famous photograph of Earth taken by the crew of the Apollo 17 spacecraft while traveling toward the Moon in 1972. So-titled because the Earth resembles a blue marble—accented by swirls of white clouds—the image is among the most widely distributed photographs in history. Depicting a fully lit Earth, the snapshot was originally taken "upside-down," with Antarctica on top, but was rotated before distribution.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 07, 2023, 09:18:52 AM
I've visited Pearl Harbor on two occasions and visited the Arizona Memorial, it's quite interesting overall.  The landscape of course is quite different today.  The USS Missouri Memorial is just down the way, I've yet to visit it.

My Dad recalled one time his impressions on seeing Pearl the first time in 1943, he said it was still a scene of devastation, oil on the water (which still is the case).  I gather it made an impression, he was headed to Guadalcanal at the time.  

We're visiting Nagasaki et al. in March, I'm looking at a tour that includes the A bomb memorial site.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 07, 2023, 09:26:23 AM
I've visited Pearl Harbor on two occasions and visited the Arizona Memorial, it's quite interesting overall.  The landscape of course is quite different today.  The USS Missouri Memorial is just down the way, I've yet to visit it.
The symbolism of placing the USS Missouri adjacent to the USS Arizona is interesting in multiple ways. 

You have the massive guns of the Mighty Mo overlooking and symbolically protecting the Arizona which remains a tomb for some of those who died 82 years ago this morning. 

You also have a message to potential aggressors. The Arizona is where the Japanese started the war on December 7, 1941 and the deck of the Missouri is the place where the humiliated Japanese signed the instrument of surrender four years later.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on December 07, 2023, 09:37:36 AM
This is always a pretty somber day of reflection for me.  December 7th is a day that will live in infamy.  It also happens to be my birthday.  So for my whole life, I've felt a strange connection to the disastrous sneak attack that occurred 82 years ago.

I don't cry much, but when I visited the Arizona Memorial, I couldn't stop myself.  The most grave and somber feeling I've ever experienced washed over me when I stepped foot on that landing.

I continue to wish a restful peace for those that were murdered that day, and their families and loved ones, and also for the entire USA.



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 07, 2023, 09:39:32 AM
About half of the US deaths at Pearl Harbor occurred aboard the USS Arizona. 

What happened to the Arizona was something called a "catastrophic magazine explosion". An IJN shell carried as a bomb penetrated Arizona's deck armor and detonated the forward magazine. 

The term "catastrophic magazine explosion" is redundant because a magazine explosion is catastrophic by definition. Ships simply cannot survive them. HMS Hood met her demise in the same way as did a number of ships at Jutland a quarter century earlier.

I knew a guy in Medina who was at Pearl Harbor at the time of the attack. He was 17 and had lied about his age to enlist in the Navy. He was assigned to the USS California which sank beneath him that day. He swam through water covered with sometimes burning oil to Ford Island. 

After the attack he was reassigned to a Cruiser and sunk again at Coral Sea. In the first six months of US involvement in WWII he had been sunk twice. 

I have a lunch meeting today where we will be screening a documentary made by our local Cable TV about the aforementioned Veteran. 

One more note about him, just because I thought it was funny. By the time I knew him he was in his late 70's and looked like "grandpa" but one thing hadn't changed in the 60 years between the war and then. He still swore like a sailor. It was jarring because when you looked at "grandpa" you didn't expect that but when he opened his mouth he sounded like he was still in the Navy.

Great guy, passed away about 15 years ago.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 07, 2023, 10:00:12 AM
visited the Arizona a few years back

very somber, very emotional
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 07, 2023, 10:41:34 AM
Yup, these are just terms, to me.  Call it a banana if you want.  I like the term "battle cruiser", like in Star Trek.  It sounds, cool.

I don't see a good reason to argue over such terms.
I somehow missed this the other day.  I tend to agree with you on the futility of arguing about the terms but I can point you to some historical forums where you can read literally hundreds of posts arguing over what exactly is and is not a Battleship, Battlecruiser, or a "Large Cruiser".  

For the uninitiated, the Battlecruiser concept was born at a time when Battleships were large well armed and well armored ships but FAR too slow to actually force enemy cruisers into battle.  At the time Battleships typically could only obtain around 20-23 knots while typical cruisers were around 10 kn faster.  

Historically Battleships were usually built to what was called the "Balanced Battleship" concept.  That simply means that they were sufficiently armored to resist their own shells.  

Side note, All-or-Nothing Armor:
Originally Battleships were armored from bow to stern.  However, as guns got larger and more powerful it became impossible to build a ship armored from bow to stern against heavy guns that could also carry heavy guns and still be able to float and move.  To solve this riddle, Naval designers came up with the all-or-nothing armor scheme.  This meant that instead of providing armor for the entire ship, only the critical parts of the ship (magazines, engineering spaces, and enough buoyancy to keep the ship afloat) were armored.  The rest of the ship had virtually no armor at all.  This is why, for example, Wisconsin collapsed her entire bow in the 1950's.  There wasn't any armor up there.  

Back to the ships.  Battlecruisers were conceived largely to be able to take out enemy cruisers.  Battleships were more-or-less incapable of this since cruisers were so much faster so they could simply run away.  The general concept of a Battlecruiser was a ship with the armament of a Battleship and the speed of a Cruiser.  The idea was that it could destroy anything it couldn't outrun and outrun anything it couldn't destroy.  In order to accomplish this, armor was sacrificed.  

The only class of ships ever officially authorized for the USN as a Battlecruiser was the Lexington Class authorized in 1916.  Six ships were laid down but none were finished as Battlecruisers.  When the Washington Naval Treaty came into force the USN scrapped four without completing them and converted the other two into the Lexington Class Aircraft Carriers Lexington and Saratoga.  Lexington was sunk at Coral Sea, Saratoga survived the war and was sunk in the atomic tests at Bikini.  

As Battlecruisers the Lexington's would have had eight 16" guns and a 5-7" armor belt.  Compare that to twelve 16" guns and a 8-13.5" armor belt for contemporary USN Battleship designs.  What the Lexington's would have gotten for the reduced armor is a LOT more speed.  Contemporary USN Battleships had a top speed of 23 kn while the Lexington Class Battlecruisers would have been able to attain 33+ kn.  

At the Battle of Jutland both the Germans and the British used their Battlecruisers as effectively "fast battleships".  They wanted to use them because they had big guns like the Battleships but several of them exploded in the battle because they were not armored sufficiently to take on their own size shells.  This wasn't a design failure so much as a misuse.  The Battlecruisers had not been designed to stand in a line and slug it out with equivalently armed ships.  The designed intention was for them to run away from anything with equivalent guns.  In wartime practice the Admirals wanted as many big guns as they could get so all the big gun ships had to stand and slug it out even though the Battlecruisers were known to be incapable of actually doing this.  

Thus began the process of creating a "Fast Battleship".  The Iowa's (built ~20 years later) had armor comparable to the old USN Battleships AND speed comparable to the never-completed Lexington Class Battlecruisers.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 07, 2023, 11:03:41 AM
It's amazing to note how few naval battles were fought since 1900 that really involved the use of ships designed for that purpose, probably including aircraft carriers until later in WW2.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 07, 2023, 01:49:29 PM
Here is a little tidbit that fits the "Weird History" topic of this thread:

The first shots at Pearl Harbor were fired by the USN and the first sinking at Pear Harbor was a small IJN Submarine being sunk by the USS Ward.  This happened a few hours before the main attack and I'm just typing the story from memory so details could be a little fuzzy.  

The harbor had a submarine net.  These were steel "nets" strung across the harbor entrance to prevent enemy submarines from getting into the Harbor.  This was already known to be important because in the early days of the European war a German U-Boat had managed to get into the British anchorage at Scapa Flow and sink the British Battleship Royal Oak.  

The Submarine nets had to be opened to allow friendly ships to get into and out of the harbor.  Early on the morning of December 7 a USN ship was entering the Harbor and lookouts reported that they had sighted a periscope and they believed that a submarine was attempting to get through the open net with them.  The Destroyer USS Ward was assigned to investigate and the USS Ward spotted and fired upon what they believed was a submarine.  The Ward dutifully reported this to the base.  

The PH base command obviously didn't take the Ward's report seriously.  If they had, the base could have been prepared for attack but it wasn't, why not?  

To understand this you have to understand a bit about the military.  It is typical in pretty much all militaries for the "career" guys to look down on the "reserve" guys.  In the USN, the career guys are almost exclusively US Naval Academy grads with (back then) a sprinkling of Ivy League guys mixed in.  They not only think they are smarter than the "reserve" guys, they also look at them as "weekend warriors".  The USS Ward was operated by a reserve unit from Minnesota.  Now if you've ever talked to a Minnesotan you know that they don't sound like Naval Academy/Ivy League guys.  

The USS Ward's Minnesota Naval Reserve crew got on the radio and probably said "We sunk a submarine, eh" and the Base Command which would have been all (or almost all) Naval Academy/Ivy League guys probably rolled laughing thinking that the "hicks" from Minnesota had shot a porpoise or dolphin.  So Base Command didn't take the notice seriously.  

Even after the attack and after the war a lot of people still doubted that the Ward had actually sunk a Japanese submarine early on the morning of December 7.  Decades after the attack the harbor entrance was being dredged and a miniature IJN Submarine was recovered.  The submarine had a 5" shell hole in the sail just below the periscope which was the size of Ward's guns and the place where the Ward's crew stated that they hit the submarine that nobody believed they had sunk all those years prior.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 07, 2023, 04:27:46 PM
https://www.theunion.com/news/remembering-the-day-of-infamy-grass-valleys-lou-conter-last-remaining-survivor-of-uss-arizona/article_c54a9932-948b-11ee-a167-bb12d9822564.html

Only one USS Arizona survivor is still alive. 

The youngest WWII veterans were born in 1927 and the few of them still alive celebrate their 96th birthday this year. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: SFBadger96 on December 07, 2023, 07:43:17 PM
Every December 7, the first time I look at the date, whether on a calendar, my phone, an email, whatever, I still hear FDR's voice, and say "A day that will live in infamy"--normally out loud to myself.

I've probably shared this before, but most of my family that served in WWII were in the Army. My grandfather came to the island hopping a little later on (he was taking his first semester law school exams the week of December 8-12, then was stationed as a coast artilleryman defending California's coast), with the return to the Philippines. One of my uncles was a tanker who fought in the Bulge and saw the aftermath of Dresden. My great grandfather--and the father-in-law of the one island hopping, father of the tanker--commanded supply ships in the Pacific. He was a Captain (for those who don't know--a very senior officer in the Navy, one step below the first Admiral rank) throughout the war, was promoted to Rear Admiral (one star) at the end of the war, and died very shortly thereafter of a heart attack, I think. Grandpa (son-in-law) was invited to his ship to dine while they were both in the Philippines. 

Anyway, Grandpa always used to say, "the Admiral saw more action in the war than all of us boys, combined." As a supply ship commander, he was involved in several campaigns getting the LSTs to the beach, which meant coming under fire much of the time. He was at Guadalcanal, Luzon, and several other large landings. Family lore is that he was one of the architects of the method the Navy devised for getting men and material onto the beach under fire.

Towards the end of her life (she died three years ago just after turning 100), my grandmother (daughter of "the Admiral") told my son and me about sitting around the family table and hearing the adults discuss (and fear) the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau battlecruisers during the late 30s. For a kid who was fascinated by naval warfare, my son ate that up.

Naval duty was hard, with long periods of boredom, but hard work, on the open sea, and short bursts of terror, while most of the sailors were relying on other people to do the shooting, and hoping the big stuff wouldn't hit them.

I can't imagine visiting the Arizona without being profoundly moved. I certainly was.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 08, 2023, 08:44:38 AM
My Dad was in the USAAF, was radar operator on a B24 in the south Pacific that went down at some point.  He much later was awarded a PH.  He thought it had to have been enemy fire, but realistically I suspect it was engine problems.  Three of the crew of 10 survived floating in the ocean and were picked up by a US destroyer the next day.

The psychology back then of front line troops is fascinating to me, there was a saying "Golden Gate in 48", meaning they had five more years of war ahead of them and minimal chances of survival.  My Dad talked about big poker game that got played, he said he never played.

It's a bit odd really, but as noted above, a Captain in the Navy is the same rank as a Colonel in the Marines/Army (O6).  Similarly, a Lieutenant in the Navy is the same rank as a Captain in the Marines/Army (O3).  This can lead to some confusion when answering phones for example.

In between the Navy has Lt. Commander and Commander.

I always thought it odd that a Lt General outranks a Major General while a Major is well ahead of a first Lt.

So, while I never served, I am in possession of two Purple Hearts.  I also was given a "rifle Expert" medal by a Marine Major a while back, somewhat long story, and I found out last week he passed on at a way too early age, retired as a Lt. Colonel.  I shared a few stories privately with his wife but was unable to make the service.

He was a very fine fellow, Lt. Colonel Kirk Greiner.

Obituary information for LtCol. Kirk A. Greiner (springgroveobituaries.org) (https://www.springgroveobituaries.org/obituaries/LtCol-Kirk-A-Greiner?obId=29889768)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 08, 2023, 09:57:46 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

John Lennon Shot by Mark David Chapman (1980)
While returning to his New York hotel with wife Yoko Ono one evening, John Lennon was shot and killed by Mark David Chapman, a delusional and possibly psychotic Beatles fan. Chapman eventually elected not to pursue an insanity defense and instead pled guilty to the murder, receiving a sentence of 20 years to life in prison. He has since been denied parole on several occasions. Rather than flee the scene after shooting Lennon, Chapman hung around and read a book until police arrived
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 08, 2023, 10:09:12 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

John Lennon Shot by Mark David Chapman (1980)
While returning to his New York hotel with wife Yoko Ono one evening, John Lennon was shot and killed by Mark David Chapman, a delusional and possibly psychotic Beatles fan. Chapman eventually elected not to pursue an insanity defense and instead pled guilty to the murder, receiving a sentence of 20 years to life in prison. He has since been denied parole on several occasions. Rather than flee the scene after shooting Lennon, Chapman hung around and read a book until police arrived
This is a gift to @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) :

John Lennon was shot multiple times and killed while Yoko Ono was right next to him and unscathed. That is a strong argument that there can't be a God.

Speaking of:
Q: What does the Dyslexic Agnostic Insomniac do?

A: He lies awake ⏰️ in bed 🛌 all night wondering if there really is a Dog 🐕 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 09, 2023, 09:49:08 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

America's First Serving African-American Governor Takes Office (1872)
Born to a former slave and a white planter, Pinckney Pinchback was America's first African-American governor. During the American Civil War, he raised and led a company of black Union volunteers, called the Corps d'Afrique, in Union-held New Orleans. After the war, he was elected to the Louisiana senate and served as lieutenant governor. In 1872, he became governor when Henry Warmoth was impeached.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 10, 2023, 06:31:44 AM
One of the less bright ideas in WW 2:

82 Years Ago Today - HMS Prince of Wales & HMS Repulse are sunk by Japanese aircraft off of Malaya - December 10, 1941

327 Personnel perished when HMS Prince of Wales sank, including Admiral Phillips and Captain Leach.
508 Personnel perished when HMS Repulse Sank.



(https://i.imgur.com/Htc37IQ.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 10, 2023, 02:15:57 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/gnb2jrc.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 10, 2023, 02:17:09 PM
ya see why VY didn't get the trophy?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 10, 2023, 02:25:40 PM
One of the less bright ideas in WW 2:

82 Years Ago Today - HMS Prince of Wales & HMS Repulse are sunk by Japanese aircraft off of Malaya - December 10, 1941

327 Personnel perished when HMS Prince of Wales sank, including Admiral Phillips and Captain Leach.
508 Personnel perished when HMS Repulse Sank.

Churchill was ass for sending them,specially after the Imperial Japanese Navy just displayed in aces 3 days earlier what sea launched airpower was capable of. He couldn't bring himself to admit that Britania didn't rule the waves anymore.Japan had not only the biggest but most advanced NAVY afloat at the dawn of WWII
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 10, 2023, 02:27:16 PM
Tommie Frazier didn't get one either

1995 - Tommie
Comp -92
Att - 163
Pct - 56.4
yards - 1362
TDs - 17
INTs - 4
Rating - 156
____________________

Atts - 97
Yards - 604
Avg - 6.2
TDs - 14
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 10, 2023, 02:41:26 PM
ya see why VY didn't get the trophy?
VY has gotten the old-timey halo treatment.  What does that mean?
A great player's reputation is absurdly elevated based on one fantastic game that everyone sees.
Like Roger Staubach.
Like Archie Manning.
It was much more prevalent back in the day. 
.
VY was an okay passer.  A 163 rating is very good, but it's not all-time great.  He was an all-time great scrambler, but that's sort of a back-handed compliment for a QB.
His reputation is inflated due to his all-timer of a game vs USC.  The perceived slight of not winning the Heisman is also part of it.
But through no fault of his own, he lost the Heisman to arguably the best RB season ever.
Reggie Bush averaged 8.7 ypc on 200 carries.  And the receiving.  And the returns.  Only 1 other RB on a P5 team ever had a better ypc average on as many carries:  1971 Greg Pruitt, on an option offense.
Everyone else with a better ypc average had fewer carries or played on a G5 team.
So it's not like they just gave the trophy to some dude having an okay season.




Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 10, 2023, 02:52:02 PM
yup, like TD Tommie's game vs the Gators

199 yards and two TDs on 16 carries. His yards were Nebraska bowl and Fiesta Bowl records for most yards rushing and set an NCAA bowl record for most yards rushing by a QB.

broken by Vince in the Rose
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 10, 2023, 04:35:48 PM
Correct.  
And the average fan doesn't realize his 75-yard run was due to the defenders attempting to strip the ball and failing to actually try to tackle him.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 10, 2023, 05:41:07 PM
Correct. 
And the average fan doesn't realize his 75-yard run was due to the defenders attempting to strip the ball and failing to actually try to tackle him.
Whoa Nellie what a deflection, nothing to with strength,endurance,ability just a jaded team that didn't want to be there.Mmkay
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 11, 2023, 08:46:03 AM
FACT OF THE DAY:

The United Nations passed the "Convention on the Law of the Sea" in 1994 and is now the recognized governing body in all legal matters concerning the world's oceans.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 11, 2023, 08:55:26 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/42kH3tz.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 11, 2023, 09:08:59 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Adolf Eichmann Found Guilty of War Crimes (1961)
Adolf Eichmann was a high-ranking Nazi official who oversaw the maltreatment, deportation, and murder of millions of Jews during World War II. He promoted the use of gas chambers for the mass extermination of Jews in concentration camps and is considered to be largely responsible for the logistics of the Final Solution, which was the Nazi policy to exterminate millions of people. At the end of World War II, Eichmann went into hiding.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 11, 2023, 10:34:26 AM
Churchill was ass for sending them,specially after the Imperial Japanese Navy just displayed in aces 3 days earlier what sea launched airpower was capable of. He couldn't bring himself to admit that Britania didn't rule the waves anymore.Japan had not only the biggest but most advanced NAVY afloat at the dawn of WWII
Churchill certainly made mistakes in WWII and both before (Dardenelles campaign was his baby in WWI and an unmitigated disaster) and after (Suez although not technically his, had his handprints on it).

They said, this criticism is wrong on several counts and just generally misdirected and unfair.

First, while Churchill's government did order Repulse and POW to Singapore, they did that to show resolve in the hopes of deterring Japanese aggression. That obviously failed but I would argue that it was worth a try.

Second, the implication that Prime Minister Churchill exercised day-by-day tactical control over warships operating out of a base almost half-way around the world from Downing Street is absurd.

Third, Churchill's orders regarding the two ships were obviously issued LONG before Pearl Harbor. The ships left England weeks before Pearl Harbor and Churchill's control ended then.

Fourth, Repulse and POW were not sent without air cover. They were sent with a carrier but it suffered damage and had to stop for repairs.

Fifth, Churchill would reasonably have assumed that Repulse and POW could operate under air cover provided from Singapore and other British bases in the region. The local command decided to send them beyond the range of that cover.

Sixth, in hindsight it was obviously ludicrous to send Repulse and POW beyond their air cover but that wasn't realized until after they met their demise. At Pearl Harbor and at Taranto before that IJN and RN planes had sunk and damaged heavy ships but a lot of people still thought that was because the ships were caught by surprise and unable to maneuver. The first heavy ships ever sunk at sea by air power alone were . . .

Repulse and Prince of Wales.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 11, 2023, 10:58:22 AM
I agree, and the Dardanelles was a solid strategic concept, just very very poorly handled.

The Japanese used mostly Nell bombers and some newer Bettys, land based twin engine, as I recall, able to launch torpedoes.  I should look it up.

The were in range of air cover but it arrived too late.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 11, 2023, 11:45:22 AM
I agree, and the Dardanelles was a solid strategic concept, just very very poorly handled.

The Japanese used mostly Nell bombers and some newer Bettys, land based twin engine, as I recall, able to launch torpedoes.  I should look it up.

The were in range of air cover but it arrived too late.
I didn't explain what I meant with "beyond their air cover" very well. 

You are correct, the Repulse and POW were within the flight range of some British aircraft but there were not enough aircraft to cover the distance AND maintain a constant air cover.

That the air cover arrived too late is due to an inherent flaw in the plan. If you don't have air cover in place then it can only be brought in when needed and called for. By the time you need it, it is too late to call for it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: SFBadger96 on December 11, 2023, 03:08:43 PM
Churchill was the leader the world needed, which makes him a hero to many (including me). He was also human, and, as a result, flawed.

Shocking, I know.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 12, 2023, 12:23:22 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
First Transatlantic Radio Signal Received (1901)
Marconi was the Nobel Prize-winning Italian creator of the radio telegraph system. At 21, while experimenting with a homemade apparatus, he successfully sent signals across a distance of more than a mile and set off to London with his mother to find support for his work. He patented his system, organized a company to develop its commercial applications, and, in 1901, transmitted the first transatlantic wireless signal.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 14, 2023, 11:26:11 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

World's Tallest Vehicular Bridge Formally Dedicated (2004)
The Millau Viaduct is the world's highest road bridge, peaking at a height of 1,125 ft (343 m) and stretching across 8,071 ft (2,460 m). Designed by British architect Norman Foster and French structural engineer Michel Virlogeux, the cable-stayed, multispan steel structure crosses the Tarn River near the town of Millau in southern France. After more than a decade of planning and construction, the bridge was inaugurated by French president Jacques Chirac in 2004.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 14, 2023, 12:08:43 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/xns1NOt.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 14, 2023, 04:27:05 PM
Third, Churchill's orders regarding the two ships were obviously issued LONG before Pearl Harbor. The ships left England weeks before Pearl Harbor and Churchill's control ended then.So situation changed and they went ahead as Pearl Harbor was still smoking - DUMB.Irrelevant when they left or orders were issued there was now a clear and present danger.With a whole Island pummeled two ships would be target pratice

Fourth, Repulse and POW were not sent without air cover. They were sent with a carrier but it suffered damage and had to stop for repairs.So no air power in other words - DUMB.And still forged ahead

Fifth, Churchill would reasonably have assumed that Repulse and POW could operate under air cover provided from Singapore and other British bases in the region. And what happens when someone ASSUMES?

Sixth, in hindsight it was obviously ludicrous to send Repulse and POW beyond their air cover but that wasn't realized until after they met their demise. At Pearl Harbor and at Taranto before that IJN and RN planes had sunk and damaged heavy ships but a lot of people still thought that was because the ships were caught by surprise and unable to maneuver. The above statements are not hindsight that should be was an obvious blunder not factoring in the reasults of just 3 days earlier.Japan had at least 18 carriers at that time and w/o knowing their location well that was just DUMB
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 14, 2023, 04:53:34 PM
The British ships were not sunk by carrier aircraft, as I noted above.  And they were in range of air cover, they just didn't have it when it mattered.  The British had Buffalos, an obsolete US fighter with limited range and loiter time.

So, effectively, they had no air cover (duh). Admiral Phillips gave the orders to sally forth under those conditions, it wouldn't have been Churchill directly.  They apparently were attempting to intercept a naval invasion force.  Bear in mind also they feared being caught in port unable to manuever or get up steam by bombers (as with Pearl Harbor).  The admiral believed that Japanese bombers would be unable to effectively attack capital ships, and he was way too late to call for air cover, a serious, critical mistake.

Following the Japanese Attack on Pearl Harbor (https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/museums/nmusn/explore/photography/wwii/wwii-pacific/us-entry-into-wwii-japanese-offensive/1941-december-7-japanese-attack-on-pearl-harbor.html), the Japanese landed in northern Malaya (https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/museums/nmusn/explore/photography/wwii/wwii-pacific/us-entry-into-wwii-japanese-offensive/1941-december-8-1942-january-31-malayan-campaign.html) on December 8.  The Royal Navy battleship, HMS Prince of Wales and battlecruiser HMS Repulse, along with four destroyers were sent to attack the invasion force.  In the late morning of December 10, after finding no targets, the Royal Navy ships were returning to Singapore and were attacked and sunk by Japanese bombers and torpedo planes.    Having no aerial defense, the ships became the first Allied warships sunk by air attack while operating on the high-seas in the Pacific War.  

The Repulse and Prince of Wales Battleships: How They Sunk (warfarehistorynetwork.com) (https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/the-repulse-and-prince-of-wales-battleships-how-they-sunk/)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 14, 2023, 05:53:02 PM
@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) 
Your post is riddled with errors.  You can say that Churchill made some dumb decisions without criticizing him for things that were not dumb at the time, not his decision, neither, or some combination.  

@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) said:
"So situation changed (PH) and they went ahead as Pearl Harbor was still smoking - DUMB.  Irrelevant when hey left or orders were issued there was now a clear and present danger.  With a whole Island pummeled two ships would be target practice"

@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) said:
"So no air power in other words - DUMB. And still forged ahead"
@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) said:
"And what happens when someone ASSUES?"

@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) said:  
"The above statements are not hindsight that should be was an obvious blunder not factoring in the reasults(sic) of just 3 days earlier.  Japan had at least 18 carriers at that time and w/o knowing their location well that was just DUMB".  

*See discussion above with @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) about the range of their own air cover.  They were not technically out of range of aircraft based at Singapore, the problem was they were too far for the planes available at Singapore to maintain constant air cover over them.  Singapore could only provide air cover for a limited time (due to the fuel used to fly back and forth) so they only had air cover when called for which was inherently too late.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 14, 2023, 08:08:55 PM

@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17)
Your post is riddled with errors.  You can say that Churchill made some dumb decisions without criticizing him for things that were not dumb at the time, not his decision, neither, or some combination. 

Sorry your opinions are no matter who sent them they sit on the bottom not hard to process. Some one in the admiralty should have stopped them bad move this was a huge discussion on YT boards.You have many good takes - this isn't one of them.The RN were used to chasing the much smaller Kriegs marine around that had neither air power or nearly advanced torpedo bombers or effective torpedoes of Yamamoto's NAVY.W/O looking it up how many fighters(Planes) were at Singapore? And what was their range and where the hell were they?DUMB
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 14, 2023, 09:23:09 PM
no matter who sent them they sit on the bottom not hard to process.
Wrong again:
Actually Repulse and POW no longer sit on the bottom. They've been scrapped by illegal salvageres. It was a bit of a diplomatic issue not too long ago because the British consider them to be war graves and the scrapping/salvage violated International Law and Maratime treaties.

That said, your point was that they were sunk and obviously that is correct. However your odd obsession with blaming the British Prime Minister specifically for their loss is patently absurd.

Maybe you have finally backed off of that?
Some one in the admiralty should have stopped them
?


this was a huge discussion on YT boards.
I don't know what this is but I've been involved in several discussions of the loss of the two ships.

In hindsight, sending Repulse and POW beyond effective air cover was obviously a mistake but @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) and I have both pointed out that Repulse and POW were the first Capital Ships to be sunk by air attack while operating at sea. Taranto and Pearl Harbor were different in that the ships were caught at anchor ⚓️ without the ability to maneuver.

The sinking of those two ships along with the later sinking of most of the rest of the IJN obviously proved that it WAS possible but that was only a theory until it happened.

Hindsight is 20/20 but that doesn't mean that the people on the scene at the time were "DUMB" because they didn't have it.
The RN were used to chasing the much smaller Kriegs marine around that had neither air power or nearly advanced torpedo bombers or effective torpedoes of Yamamoto's.
Yes . . . which is why they hadn't yet realized, on day four of the Pacific War that this was different.
W/O looking it up how many fighters(Planes) were at Singapore? And what was their range and where the hell were they?DUMB
Without looking it up, about 150 and they weren't great planes. Given that Britain had fought the Battle of Britain for their survival and that they were still fighting a much more strategically important battle to maintain their supply line through Suez, Singapore specifically and the Far East generally were not high priorities to them. Thus, the first rate Spitfires and second rate Hurricanes were more urgently needed elsewhere so the planes in Singapore were not up to modern standards.

The British AND the Americans *THOUGHT* that wouldn't matter because they were unaware of Japanese aircraft capabilities. They were only partially wrong. The Japanese aircraft were wildly successful early on, but only until the Allies learned their strengths and weaknesses, after that they were flying coffins for their crews.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 14, 2023, 10:37:22 PM
Had some wild discussions on other boards as it has been about 5 yrs when I last looked this stuff up.Look you dressed me down about Churchill when he was indeed the culprit.Churchill wanted a show of force to deter aggression in the south china sea and he didn't listen to his admiralty ,he listened to the foreign secretary Anthonty Eden.It's that type of depraved insight that almost drove Alan Brooke to stepping down later.I don't need to scribble a dissertation and please no crappy analogies about Car factories WTH was that?

Things had been ramping up in Europe in the mediteranean and N.Africa and that is where the focus and hardware went chasing/looking for the Tirpitz and subs leaving a shell of a covering force in the S.China Sea.The IJN had 20 destroyers in the area and the RN had 4 didn't stop Winnie though. Again they KNEW the Japanese might was not in doubt after Pearl.The BEF had 3 days notice yet still ordered to steam toward Singapore and disaster but those poor sailors were still sent - 837 crewman died with over a thousand picked up. This fools arrand shouldn't have been considered let alone launched. The IJF honed their skills since 1937 against china and were well drilled and coordinated. The very 1st Torpedo raid crippled the Prince of Wales with 2 strikes then many small raids criss crossed both vessels. A whole 11 RAF planes were sent when the Repulse had been pounced upon and sent out an sos by the time those planes arrived there were oil slicks as both the Repulse and P.O.W. slipped beneath the waves

All over from Vietnam to Malaya to Burma to Hong Kong was crawling with Japanese Subs and air cover from mostly land based bombers/fighters in Malaya that changed out their land strayfing arsenal and went hunting with armor piercing bombs and their latest topedoes. Churchills show of force bluff backfired the Naval Base built at Singapore wasn't sufficient. Also just a couple months later Singapore fell with 81,000 BEF troops surrendering to 34,000 IJF that were almost out of ammo but Percival couldn't know that but evidently again where was the air cover if it was sufficient as you suggested in one of those posts? Not enough evidently nor was it the ground forces fault. These piss poor decisions were made right at the top over the heads of the officers left to plan and impliment them

It's just like the ass MacArthur knew damn well of the Pearl attack and George Marshall's  directive was ignored that ANY belligerence shown on the part of IJF  should be met with force. That asshole Dug Out Doug ignored 3-4 warnings the morning of Dec 8th and by the time he decided to do a damn thing around 10:30-11:00 am Clarke Field got hammered by Japanese bombers and flattened .Had he listened to his JRs and Marshall at least 50 planes could have been in the air
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 14, 2023, 11:50:35 PM
Lotta typing 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 15, 2023, 12:11:28 AM
However your odd obsession with blaming the British Prime Minister specifically for their loss is patently absurd.
Churchill was as important in a war room as an accordian is in a tree stand hunting Deer.The man was a menace you're not well read here or simply ignoring historical fact.Do you have any clue the misguided decisions and flat out distortions he told/demanded?Do you know who General Richard O'Connor was?The Original Desert Fox that's who unlike the yapping jackel Montgomery later on this man understood modern mobile warfare and combined arms that was emerging in the 40s. OConnor had taken a force of 35-36,000 troops and routed a much bigger Italian army(130-150,000 troops) during Operation Compass in Egypt/Libya. He took 115,000 prisoners,400 tanks and 1300 artillary pieces

 So how does the brandy adled Winston reward him? After Reinforcements arrived and they are refitting,Churchill took 50,000 troops from O'Connor and sent them to Greece and Crete. Where by June just 4 months later both Greece and Crete fell and Richard O'Connor was taken prisoner by the Germans.Historians suggest because of the massive exodus of troops he was reconoitering/scouting and driving to forward field HQ basically unguarded.So you see what you call and absurd obsession is but an accurate observation. He ignored his admirals about the Pacific then takes over half a man's army and you think that misguided orb is somehow a soldier/statesman?

  Winnie told FDR when he was wooing the USA to do his empire's bidding "Germany First" this right after Pearl Harbor. So with Guderian,Manstein and Rommel 25 miles across the Channel runs 3000 miles away into the Desert - ya maked perfect sense.Then Sicily,then Italy - remember the soft under belly theory. Stalin by this time was ready to strangle him. And the thing is Churchill wanted to keep going east Balkans/Greece/Crete even Turkey using the GIs as sandbags of course. Thankfully George Marshall told him "not one GI is going to die in the god damned adriatic". Even Alan Brooke Britains top Officer was going ballistic at Churchill's hair brained schemes - read his memoirs. Churchill thought going over the Alps would be easier than a going against a nowhere near finished Atlantic wall. Colonel Hogan had more  military acumen

Maybe you have finally backed off of that?? If you want to be condescending about it,I've back off of nothing - I should be charging you for this

In hindsight, sending Repulse and POW beyond effective air cover was obviously a mistake but @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) and I have both pointed out that Repulse and POW were the first Capital Ships to be sunk by air attack while operating at sea. Taranto and Pearl Harbor were different in that the ships were caught at anchor ⚓️ without the ability to maneuver. "Sigh" again they had 3 days to think this thru and still sent those ships.Just like going to war about Poland there was no way the British could either sustain or win operations there.Same in the South China Sea

The sinking of those two ships along with the later sinking of most of the rest of the IJN obviously proved that it WAS possible but that was only a theory until it happened.Pearl wasn't a theory and they were accutely aware of that and went ahead - quit ignoring that fact to shoehorn your point into the narrative - a much bigger fleet got obliterated and the British were well aware of it and still ordered those boats forward

Hindsight is 20/20 but that doesn't mean that the people on the scene at the time were "DUMB" No your dismissal of my point was dumb as you gussy up your views and present it as set in stone

The British AND the Americans *THOUGHT* that wouldn't matter because they were unaware of Japanese aircraft capabilities. They were only partially wrong. The Japanese aircraft were wildly successful early on, but only until the Allies learned their strengths and weaknesses, after that they were flying coffins for their crews.They knew damn well the size of the Imperial Japanese Navy,back in the '20s it was speculated war with the Empire was probable and also knew that Yamamoto was educated in the USA - when that meant something.What they couldn't know was that IJFs would attack before a declaration of war was sent - glad we got that all cleared up
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 15, 2023, 07:06:39 AM
Lotta typing

Yeah, TLDR is kinda my thing.  I'm considering legal action.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 15, 2023, 07:27:04 AM
Well that is MB's M.O. which is fine to a point but to clear up misconceptions I had to go that route
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 15, 2023, 08:00:13 AM
People make mistakes during conflicts.  It's amazing anyone ever wins one.

Even when you win, you lose.

Churchill dispached these ships thinking it would deter the Japanese from going to war.  He was obviously wrong.  The Admiral mishandled them thinking they could not be sunk by aircraft.  He was wrong.  Two AC carriers were not employed to assist, one due to breakdown and one without reason.  That was wrong.  Singapore's main guns had only armor piercing shells completely not useful for repelling a land attack by infantry, that was wrong.  The Japanese attacked the US, that was wrong.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 15, 2023, 08:16:05 AM
The Japanese attacked the US, that was wrong.

Not that I'm complaining, but I think Japan's biggest mistake in attacking the US wass not going all in.  They caught us by surprise and had the opportunity to do far more before we could reasonably mobilize a response, but retreated instead of having planned a more thorough, devastating assault.  Almost like they just wanted to send a message.  Granted, I understand that long-distance warfare was not so easily waged for them at that time, but most military history stuff I've read has opined they could've hurt us a lot worse.  So maybe being "wrong" was in not committing instead of attacking at all.  When you come across a bear sleeping, you stab its heart and throat as much as you can and hope you weather the storm.  You don't kick it in the balls and run away.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 15, 2023, 08:24:13 AM
A lot has been written about a third strike at Pearl that never happened.  One issue the Japanese had after Pearl was "what to do next", and they did squander their resources by attacking in the Indian Ocean and dithering, not using their full strength to hit something strategic.  They did have a lot of constraints, oil being a major one.  Their reason for going to war was oil, mainly, and the Phillipines as US territory.

If we didn't "own" the PI they probably would have left us alone.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 15, 2023, 08:39:07 AM
Pretty sure the US Government was in the process of pulling out of the Phillipines but were actually asked to stay by them becuase of growing hostilities(from what I had read)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 15, 2023, 08:42:31 AM
We were in the process of reinforcing the PI with troops and planes.  That was a threat to Japanese supply lines that could not be ignored, they thought.  We had recently transferred the 4th Marines from China to the PI, and sent MacArthur over as well, with B-17s.

I lean to thinking were we not in the PI, the Japanese could have secured oil supplies in SE Asia without feeling a need to attack the US.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 15, 2023, 09:29:18 AM
@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) :

Cincy and I have repeatedly pointed out your errors and you have completely and utterly failed to address our points.  Now you've gone on a long rant about basically everything Churchill ever did wrong which is completely and utterly irrelevant to the question at hand.  

There are many valid criticisms of Winston Churchill but sending Repulse and POW out from Singapore without air cover is NOT one of them for two reasons which have been pointed out to you repeatedly and you have utterly failed to address but I'll post them one more time:


Sending Repulse and POW TO Singapore might actually have been Churchill's decision.  That was done before Pearl Harbor so your whole argument that he should have known better based on what happened at Pearl Harbor is dismissed.  

You didn't bother to get the facts right, but one *COULD* argue that sending the two ships to Singapore was a mistake because they were not enough to stop the Japanese. I'd address that argument by saying that they weren't actually sent there to STOP the Japanese, they were sent to deter the Japanese.  

It is abundantly obvious that Repulse and POW were not enough to stop the Japanese.  That wasn't the point.  The point was to add them to the already existing fleet of the RN, Netherlands, Australia, and the USN.  By the way, FDR had been pressing Britain to send heavy units to the Far East because he felt that deterrence had a chance so I suppose he is a moron too.  

In 20/20 hindsight it obviously didn't work but at the time sending (and therefore risking) two ships in an effort to avoid a war that ended up killing millions was worth the risk.  


Finally I will address one more time your odd assertion that the lessons of Pearl Harbor should have been learned and thus saved Repulse and POW.  

First, as @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) and I have now repeatedly pointed out, the ships damaged and sunk at Pearl Harbor, just like the ships damaged and sunk at Taranto, were stuck in their harbors lacking freedom of maneuver.  At that time that was seen as a big factor.  The admirals of the day thought that ships on the high seas would be much better able to defend themselves.  In our 20/20 hindsight we know that freedom of maneuver by itself wasn't enough but you are asserting that the decision maker was not merely mistaken but an absolute fool for not realizing that in advance.  This is silly.  

Second, you have repeatedly pointed out the three days between PH and the loss of Repulse and POW.  This argument is obviously not logically sound.  The Repulse and POW were known and operating as "Force Z".  Force Z was sent out of Singapore on the evening of December 8.  Now you might think that was the day after Pearl Harbor but if you do, you are wrong again.  Singapore, like Japan, is on the other side of the International Date Line so the Pearl Harbor attack occurred in the early morning hours of December 8 in Singapore.  So we are not talking about 72 hours nor even 48, Force Z was sent out of Singapore about 12 hours after the Pearl Harbor attack began.  

Do you see the flaw in your understanding here yet?  When Force Z left Singapore the smoke hadn't cleared at Pearl Harbor yet.  The idea that the commander of a British Naval base thousands of miles away was supposed to have already been informed of exactly what happened and then to figure out the correct lessons to take from that and then to make the appropriate adjustments in fleet tactics and doctrine within well under 12 hours after the attack ended doesn't deserve a response.  This notion of yours is absurd on it's face.  


@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) said:
"If you want to be condescending about it, I've backed off of nothing - I should be charging you for this".  

I asked if you had learned from @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) 's and my patient explanations that Heads of State are NOT responsible for local tactical decisions.  It seemed that *MAYBE* you had because you changed from "Churchill was ass" to "Someone should have stopped them".  

Look, I don't totally disagree with your attacks on Churchill.  He DEFINITELY made a lot of mistakes.  Cincy's and my argument here was simply that THIS wasn't one of them.  If you have learned that then Cincy and I have taught you something so good for us and we are not even trying to charge you.  

Your repeated reference to this "IJF" is another error.  The IJN and IJA were the Imperial Japanese Navy and Imperial Japanese Army.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 15, 2023, 10:00:15 AM
There was a term back then called "battleship diplomacy".  The idea was that a  BB or two would so awe the "locals" that they'd never dream of contesting with the Great Power.  The Japanese military was viewed at the time as pretty backward and irrelevant, so two large capital ships was seen as one means of deterrence, without fighting (as war with Japan had not happened yet).  

The mishandling of these ships by the Admiral is duly noted, had he managed more capably, they would likely have survived, though whether they would have made any impact later is uncertain.  The gambit didn't work because the Japanese had already attacked and war had broken out anyway.  And the IJN and IJA were far more capable than the British or Americans had dreamed.

(I think maybe IJF just means japanese forces of whatever type.)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 15, 2023, 11:29:55 AM
If we didn't "own" the PI they probably would have left us alone.

So you're saying Japan's fleet was flagged for pass interference and after the 15 yard penalty they couldn't convert, so they punted and waited for our offense?  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 15, 2023, 12:14:44 PM
I guess, I've had a notion for a while that the PI caused Japan to attack us.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 15, 2023, 12:24:22 PM
I guess, I've had a notion for a while that the PI caused Japan to attack us.
It was two things:

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 15, 2023, 12:26:01 PM
Imagine Japan doesn't attack us and we're not on the PI.  They go ahead and take over Borneo and Indonesia, nobody really would do more than yell at them.  They secure their oil supplies, and go on as usual.  What else did they need?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 15, 2023, 01:41:21 PM
Imagine Japan doesn't attack us and we're not on the PI.  They go ahead and take over Borneo and Indonesia, nobody really would do more than yell at them.  They secure their oil supplies, and go on as usual.  What else did they need?
This is an interesting counterfactual.

Since Indonesia was a Dutch possession then known as the Dutch East Indies (DEI) the Dutch would have declared war on them which is more than yelling but maybe not much more since the Netherlands was occupied by Germany at the time and thus in no position to mount a response. 

The more interesting question concerns the hosts of the Dutch Government in Exile. They were based in London. 

In your hypothetical you didn't specify whether or not the Japanese took Malaya and Singapore but I don't think that it matters. I think that the British would have entered into war with Japan at the side of their Dutch Allies either way.

Roosevelt had more-or-less assured Churchill that the US would join that struggle but convincing Congress and the American people to support a war to defend European Imperialism would have been a tough sell. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 15, 2023, 01:48:36 PM
Yup.  The British in 1941 had their hands full, the Russians were very hard pressed as well.  The Brits might have declared war with Japan, but I don't think that would have materially impacted Japanese actions.  I'm presuming their strategic goals were to secure oil supplies in SE Asia and have a free hand in China.  The Brits could do nothing to inhibit any of that.  THey'd put Singapore and Hong King at risk, and we know they lost both.

The US reponse I think would be nothing more than harsh language.

In that scenario, no US direct involvement in WW 2, Lend Lease probably, but not much US aid to Russia.  Japan would have secured what it needed.  Maybe Germany ends up either winning, or reaching a negotiated peace with Stalin.

If so, our actions following the Spanish American war started the whole thing off.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 15, 2023, 03:03:38 PM
I blame Churchill
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 15, 2023, 05:17:13 PM
@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) :

Cincy and I have repeatedly pointed out your errors and you have completely and utterly failed to address our points.  Now you've gone on a long rant about basically everything Churchill ever did wrong which is completely and utterly irrelevant to the question at hand. 
You remind me of Churchill - "Don't interrupt me while I'm interrupting". Obstinatness is not an arguement and quit name dropping CD like the Maitlands screaming Beetlejuice-Beetlejuice-Beetlejuice from the Handbook of the recently Deceased to cover your carnival barking. I cobbled all that I presented from Historians not named Medina Buckeye - vetted and peer reviewed. David Bennet, Andrew Roberts,Martin Gilbert,Rick Atkinson,Evan Mawdsley,Medina Buckeye,Max Hastings,Antony Beevor,Niall Barr,John Keegan,David Horner,I'm getting tired.The 7th Cavalry had better odds entering the Valley of the Little Bighorn than the Repulse and Prince of Wales had off of Malaya in the South China Sea but onward your hero ordered them

https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/john-curtin-the-leader-who-turned-australia-to-the-united-states-20171122-gzqc46


Curtin knew this was a momentous event, bringing America, "the arsenal of democracy", into the war at the darkest hour for the allies. But no one, Curtin included, understood that the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbour – a "day of infamy," according to US President Franklin Roosevelt – also signaled the transformation of Australia including the way we, as Australians, viewed ourselves. Over the next four months, *Japan ruthlessly destroyed the myth that Britannia ruled the waves, and the US supplanted Britain as the major power among the allies in the region* An earlier Coalition wartime administration dithered and a sort of fatalistic defeatism permeated government and military circles about what Australia could do if Japan invaded. But Curtin was more clear-eyed, presciently warning as far back as 1936 that "the dependence of Australia upon the competence, let alone the readiness, of British statesmen to send forces to our aid is too dangerous a hazard upon which to found Australia's defence policy"

. Post Pearl Harbour, Japan literally blew the assumptions, verities and emotional comforts – indeed, for many, the national raison d'etre – of Australians sky high in a matter of weeks, with its rapid, devastating downward thrust into south-east Asia. This resulted in the loss of the major British naval base in Singapore – long seen as the bulwark against any invasion of Australia – the loss of other British colonies such as Malaya, collapse of the oil-rich Dutch East Indies – now Indonesia – and the Portuguese colony of East Timor, and the loss of Australian-administered Rabaul in New Guinea. Meanwhile, British defences were collapsing in Burma. At the same time, he memorably wrote in the Melbourne Herald: *"Without any inhibitions of any kind, I make it quite clear that Australia looks to America, free of any pangs as to our traditional links or kinship with Britain." (so all of that went wrong and you are right,Mmkay)

The IJN had11 Fleet Carriers, 10 Battleships, 40 Cruisers, 112 Destroyers and 63 Submarines. At the same time Period, Royal Navy have were 4 Fleet Carrier and 3 Escort Carrier, 15 Battleship and Battlecruiser, 66 Cruiser, 184 Destroyers, 60 Submarines Due to, undisputed Superiority of Aircraft in Naval engagement in WW2 - The IJN Bigger carrier fleet and Air power - combined with high morale and experience from war in China. It make them easily the Strongest Naval Power on the Planet for that period

Statistics covering the attacks on P.O.W. are:

Torpedo attacks 50

Hits 11

Bomber attacks 16
Hits  2

All of that and Winston was spot on :043: He thought going over the Alps was preferable to attacking the Atlantic Wall. Knowingly sent two more Ships when the the IJN had a 20:4 advantage just in Destroyers and Japanese submarine and aerial reconnaissance recording their every move.Not listening to the Admiralty and agreeing with the Foreign Secretary Eden. Knowlingly - there's that word again that the US Pacific Fleet was keel hauled at Pearl - sure send the lads anyway what the hell. Promising FDR GERMANY 1ST then moves operations vs them 3000 miles away into a freakin' desert as you ignore/twist everything I present.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 15, 2023, 05:23:30 PM
The IJN was not involved in sinking either ship. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 15, 2023, 05:30:49 PM
I meant F how is that? They worked in combination very well and they were present also. Again look at those results and you want to knit pick They couldn't figure the same fate awaited a much smaller force? It was on a British Docu that i saw Winston ignoring military advisors - do you question he did that? And their subs were certainly tracking every move again so they were involved not in the direct attack, which book would you like to pick up from any of them.Churchill had good qualities but he shyt the bed there
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 15, 2023, 05:53:41 PM
The 7th Cavalry had better odds entering the Valley of the Little Bighorn than the Repulse and Prince of Wales had off of Malaya in the South China Sea but onward your hero ordered them.
OMG stop, you are embarrassing yourself.

I'm no Churchill famboy. There are plenty of legitimate criticisms of him and you've even managed to stumble across some of them.

That he ordered Repulse and POW out from Singapore to contest the Malaya landings is NOT a legitimate criticism of Churchill because he never gave such an order. This has been demonstrated to you repeatedly by @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) and I and yet you have repeated this false assertion here.
The IJN had11 Fleet Carriers
Inform Yamamoto and Nagumo immediately, they'll be thrilled to learn that they have 11 fleet carriers as of December, 1941 (or ever for that matter).

Previously you said 18.

Now you are down to 11.

Keep going, you'll get it right eventually.

Please see: http://www.combinedfleet.com/economic.htm

Here are the actual figures for fleet carriers:

Zuikako and Shokaku were commissioned late in 1941. They joined the IJN's four existing fleet carriers to give Japan a total of six:
NOTE: Spellings are doubtful, I didn't look them up.

This was the most fleet carriers that the IJN ever possessed at one time. Not 18 as you stated previously. Not 11 as you stated above. Six. That is it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 15, 2023, 11:07:15 PM
On this date, December 10, 1979, Stuntman Eddie Kidd accomplished a "death-defying" motorcycle leap. During the spectacle he crossed an 80 ft gap over a 50 ft sheer drop above a viaduct at Maldon, Essex, on a 400 cc motorcycle.

The stunt was for film 'Riding High' about the life of a motorcycle stuntman. "They asked me to do the jump at the end of the film because they were worried," said Kidd. "It had been raining a few days before and they insisted that I have a mud guard on the front of my bike.

But while in flight the wind caught the mud guard and over balanced the bike, so the landing was not easy." In the film, audiences were amazed at how the bike was nearly vertical when landing. "I was also told to wear a visor on my helmet, which blew backwards as I was landing, but I 'nailed' it" Eddie told BBC Essex.

Kidd, who was only 20 at the time, completed the stunt before a stunned group of spectators, fans and press. Only wearing motorcycle leathers and a crash helmet, he landed on the jump and despite the pressure came away with only a minor leg injury.


(https://i.imgur.com/inPFa2m.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 16, 2023, 06:21:30 AM
OMG stop, you are embarrassing yourself.
Why you do it it with distressing frequency  Thicko those men got killed and you backed the play of the arrogant ass who sent them.It's you bluto making the personal attacks.Again,obstinateness is not an arguemnet. Historians not named Medina Buckeye,have your handler look up that info left for your edification.Pearl gets wiped out KOWINGLY the P.O.W, and Repulse dispatched anyway and you split hairs for pointing out the arrogant jerk responsible,makes sense

https://youtu.be/z2c7d5RfkAA
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 16, 2023, 06:44:20 AM
I meant F how is that? They worked in combination very well and they were present also. Again look at those results and you want to knit pick They couldn't figure the same fate awaited a much smaller force? It was on a British Docu that i saw Winston ignoring military advisors - do you question he did that? And their subs were certainly tracking every move again so they were involved not in the direct attack, which book would you like to pick up from any of them.Churchill had good qualities but he shyt the bed there
The IJN and their Army famously hated each other and would barely collaborate even when it clearly was necessary.  The ships were sunk by land based bombers using torpedoes (mostly).   The British Admiral is primarily responsible for several errors and misjudgments he made.  

One can fault Churchill for sending them, it is very arguable that they were needed more in European waters at the time.  I think he hoped to convince Japan not to attack.

Of all the mistakes Churchill made, I'd argue this isn't one of the major ones, nor is the sinking his fault, in my view.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 16, 2023, 07:07:11 AM
The IJN and their Army famously hated each other and would barely collaborate even when it clearly was necessary.  The ships were sunk by land based bombers using torpedoes (mostly).  The British Admiral is primarily responsible for several errors and misjudgments he made. 

One can fault Churchill for sending them, it is very arguable that they were needed more in European waters at the time.  I think he hoped to convince Japan not to attack.

Of all the mistakes Churchill made, I'd argue this isn't one of the major ones, nor is the sinking his fault, in my view.
That was true but they set aside their differences to carve out a place in the Pacific. WC sent them not much an admiral can do when his boss goes over his head.FDR went over Marshall's head a few times also. The British could have sent half the Royal Navy and still been in deep shit.I had mentioned previously with action ramping up in the Med at the same time - that was where the British went all in. Bad medicine sending two boats into enemy strongholds with not much else around exept experienced enemy forces.Singapore was was taken in what - 6 weeks w/o looking it up.Now that is a little different as there had already been garrisoned forces there.The point being that attempt a showing force garnered them nothing.Later FDR began to see Churchill had no intention of Germany 1st he kept henpecking around the periphery in the Med.He literally wanted to lead the GIs by the nose eastward. That pipedream came to and with Crete and Greece falling and Stalin and Himself cornering WC at the Tehran Conferenc and letting him know how things were going to go down in Europe
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 16, 2023, 07:23:32 AM
In my view, the actual sinking was directly due to the Admirals actions, and inactions.  Had the ships been better deployed, along with air cover, they should have survived.  Now, how much good they could have done later is another question.  

Plausibly, the could have aided in defense of Singapore using HE shells, given the land based large batteries were equipped with antiship AP shells.

But, that's a guess, and also plausibly wrong.

Sending the ships was not, in my view, a major error, at that time, though it turned out to be obviously.  Japan was not at war with GB when they were sent.  As I suggested, the idea was their mere presence might have deterred Japan from attacking at all.  That wasn't realistic, as we know now.

I think we all agree it ended up as an error and that the ships were badly handled at sea.  The only variance in opinion is whether it was a major error by WC at the time.  I think WC made other more significant avoidable errors personally.  He also made some correct calls.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 16, 2023, 07:25:23 AM
To some extent, it's akin to folks claiming Hitler lost the war by meddling, which is true, though a lot of his meddling turned out to be right.  Folks like Guderian and Lidell Hart wrote rather self serving "histories" after the war basically claiming Hitler could have won had he listened to Guderian.

And made all the right calls, in retrospect.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 16, 2023, 07:28:19 AM
CD they simply didn't have enough air cover in the SCS even if it did arrive on time.It wouldn't have been close just more Tommies taking one for the team. Sorry but ordering them forward was all show and no go.Horner and many others have covered this in their research.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 16, 2023, 07:30:49 AM
To some extent, it's akin to folks claiming Hitler lost the war by meddling, which is true, though a lot of his meddling turned out to be right.  Folks like Guderian and Lidell Hart wrote rather self serving "histories" after the war basically claiming Hitler could have won had he listened to Guderian.

And made all the right calls, in retrospect.
Sure many acconts after the war are self serving.Marshall took the high road and wrote nothing,retiring to his Garden and compost pile.Alan Brooke watched birds and had to retire to a cottage on the property he lost after the war falling on somewhat hard times.But his memoirs were written during it sometimes spot on other times very condescending of the USA.Oh and of WC
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 16, 2023, 07:40:01 AM
I think any military commander in history cna be faulted for some calls at times.  Maybe Alexander is an exception, but that was so long ago his story may have been whitewashed at times.  Grant made mistakes, Lee made mistakes, Jackson made mistakes, so did Patton and Guderian and Manstein and Rommel.  And higher up, one can say the same about FDR, WC, Hitler, Stalin, and Togo.  The French obviously had an incredibly flawed design in 1940, one almost impossible to believe unless one tries to put on their shoes at that time.  The French had reasons for their approach based on the WW One experience.  That obviously ended up being a disaster.

Mistakes are inherent in war.  And they often are easier to spot in hindsight.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 16, 2023, 09:09:57 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/rAsCZw1.png)

Postcard circa 1920's of granite railroad tunnel that was being dug out in 1850's by Blue Ridge Railroad, also called Black Diamond Railroad. Work was stopped by Civil War & never started again.

The Blue Ridge Railroad Project - Abandoned Rails (https://www.abandonedrails.com/blue-ridge-railroad-project)

The Blue Ridge Railroad Or How John C. Calhoun Almost Transformed Rabun County  – Rabun County Historical Society (rabunhistory.org) (https://rabunhistory.org/articles/the-blue-ridge-railroad-or-how-john-c-calhoun-almost-transformed-rabun-county/)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 16, 2023, 09:47:04 AM
Saturday, December 11, 1920, Robert Muno Rueckheim, (1913-1920), famous as the iconic “Sailor Boy” personification of Cracker Jack popcorn & peanut snack food, met his unfortunate & untimely earthly demise at the age of seven when he died from the effects of pneumonia at the city of Chicago in Cook County, Illinois.

☞Requiéscat in Pace, Robert Rueckheim.

According to the “Find a Grave” website page for Robert Rueckheim:

☞Advertising Icon. Born the son of Dorothy Muno & Edwin Lewis Rueckheim. His grandfather & great uncle, F. W. Rueckheim & Louis Rueckheim, had invented & introduced the caramel-coated popcorn & peanut confection, Cracker Jack, in 1893. The popular sweet was relabeled as early as 1916 bearing an image of young Robert as the brand mascot, Sailor Jack with his dog, Bingo. The logo of the boy & his dog was trademarked in 1919. Robert contracted pneumonia the following winter & succumbed at the age of 7. The Cracker Jack brand still bears his likeness today.

☞The photograph depicts an early Cracker Jack advertising illustration of Sailor Jack & his dog Bingo.


(https://i.imgur.com/yk1Cph4.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 16, 2023, 10:19:59 AM
The Battle of the Bulge Begins - WW2 - December 16, 1944
https://youtu.be/41L_CI3DMJc

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 16, 2023, 10:23:12 AM
I used to play a board game with a friend that took forever about the Bulge campaign.  The German basically couldn't win anything decisively at all.  The game was useful for learning place names and terrain.

Slaughterhouse-Five: Full Book Summary | SparkNotes (https://www.sparknotes.com/lit/slaughter/summary/)

This book and movie were based (very loosely) on Vonnegut's experiences with the 106th when he was captured.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 16, 2023, 10:27:16 AM
and the Germans had a chance and created a bulge because they used phone lines for communication

the allies didn't know every move they were gonna make 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 16, 2023, 10:55:50 AM
Churchill was ass for sending them,specially after the Imperial Japanese Navy just displayed in aces 3 days earlier what sea launched airpower was capable of. He couldn't bring himself to admit that Britania didn't rule the waves anymore.Japan had not only the biggest but most advanced NAVY afloat at the dawn of WWII
Nubbz,
This was your initial post on this issue. It was, is, and remains factually wrong.

The decision to send Repulse and POW out of Singapore was a local, tactical decision. It would have been wildly inappropriate for such a decision to be made by a head of state. It wasn't, the decision was made at the appropriate level by Admiral Phillips in Singapore aboard POW:

https://www.navygeneralboard.com/the-loss-of-prince-of-wales-and-repulse/?amp=1

Note that Phillips "did not make the decision lightly, calling a meeting of his senior officers aboard the Prince of Wales at 12.30 on 8 December and outlining the options.[20] (https://www.navygeneralboard.com/the-loss-of-prince-of-wales-and-repulse/?amp=1#_ftn20) They could, he said, stay where they were and get bombed; withdraw out of reach of the Japanese; or attack the invasion force. His officers were clear. The invasion force had to be tackled."

Your assertion that Winston Churchill made this decision is unequivocally and indisputably wrong.

That link also addresses the reasons for sending Repulse and POW to the Far East in the first place. As @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) and I have patiently explained repeatedly, they were sent in the hope of deterring Japanese aggression. However, the link reminded me of two other reasons that were even more important:

First, the British needed to demonstrate to the Australians, New Zealanders, and other Far Eastern members of the Commonwealth that they would provide defense for them.

The Australians particularly were alarmed by Japanese aggression and reasonably feared that the British would prioritize defense of the home islands at the expense of the defense of Australia.

This was such a serious issue that:
"Australian and New Zealand alarm at the growing Pacific crisis reached the point where both Dominions began holding forces back for local defence, instead of sending them to join Britain’s ground war in North Africa. The Australian government also threatened to pull its army divisions out of Egypt."

Second, the British considered it critical to demonstrate their resolve to the United States to encourage the US not to simply concede. As it turned out that was unnecessary but the British didn't know that when they ordered Repulse and POW to the Far East.

Churchill made lots of mistakes. He is decidedly NOT my hero despite your false assertion otherwise. What you seem to fail to grasp is that neither @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) nor I are arguing that Churchill was a genius or hero. This whole question is irrelevant to your initial mistake. Irrespective of how smart or dumb Churchill was, he absolutely, unequivocally, and indisputably did NOT order Repulse and POW out of Singapore to impede the Japanese invasion of Malaya.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 16, 2023, 11:37:42 AM
Um no Churchill sent them did you watch the video?An Admiral can't tell the PM he's not going - he was forced to make decisions once sent.The mission was comprimised by lack of intelligence and reconnaissance leaving force Z to rely on outdated information. WC did that all over Have a good christmas. John Paul Jones/Oliver Hazard Perry couldn't have made the situation any better they were spread way To thin

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 16, 2023, 11:59:36 AM
I think it pretty clear the Admiral made some glaring errors.  Had he done a couple more things properly and reasonably, they might have suffered damage but not been sunk.  There also was the error/issue with not sending a carrier to the region.  I know one was damaged, another apparently sat in South Africa.

I think it pretty clear WC should not have sent them anyway.  It probably seemed like a good idea, to him, at the time, needing to show support for Anzac.  At his level, he's thinking more politically and strategically than tactically.  

Most Admirals of that era believed in their hearts that a capital ship could not be sunk by air attack when fully manned and at sea.  It turned out the Japanese had an excellent Long Lance torpedo that could be effectively air dropped, and the Allies didn't know this.  The Repulse apparently did a fine job avoiding the torpedoes in the first attack.  The PoW got hit in a very vulnerable spot, somewhat akin to what happened to Bismark.



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 16, 2023, 12:14:15 PM
@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) are you willing to admit:

All three of these are false statements that you implied (#1) or made #2 and #3). 

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 16, 2023, 12:47:13 PM
Ah,sure Medina Military Memoirs obviously reading gives you a head ache try watching the Telly..Everything I've presented are from books or historitcal BRITISH Docus,not my PoV time stamped LISTEN from 1:50 -  listen thru to  4:30 .Even Corelli Barnett chimed in - stating they would be facing much more sophisticated  Japanese Aviation than the British sent after the Bismark.

https://youtu.be/-kkrHswfPVs?list=PLk2daSTx1RZutv3b8jZl1AOdq0PNZ8JQl&t=100
I'm going to spell this out in the simplest of terms it's the clear the 2 dispatched ships had DONE NOTHING to deter japan as hoped - still with plenty of time to turn back.As the historian states the presence or absense of a few more British ships were not going change anything.By December 8th they had launched attacks against Hong Kong,Malaya,East Indies Burma and PH - the allies were decisevely outnumbered.The mission had failed before they even fired a shot. The Brandy addled Churchill had plenty of time to back off the gas after that - but pressed on

Made very clear the admiralty was not keen of the idea.1st Sea Lord Pound wanted to send the older boats but many more of them.WC went with P.O.W. that was less than a year from being launched - "thinking it a British Bismark"

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 16, 2023, 12:53:46 PM
@Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) maybe you can get somewhere with Nubbz.

Nubbz, you have made false statements and you refuse to acknowledge them. Why?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 16, 2023, 01:28:55 PM
I'm not a liar watch the videos or is that concept a little too complex.Stop acting like you're Zeus tossing down edicts from Mount Olympus.2 full days to call off the dogs but you can't admit it.HAPPY KWAANZA
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 16, 2023, 01:38:30 PM
I'm not a liar watch the videos or is that concept a little too complex.Stop acting like you're Zeus tossing down edicts from Mount Olympus.2 full days to call off the dogs but you can't admit it.HAPPY KWAANZA
I never called you a liar, but you did make multiple false statements. I just assumed you were ignorant.

The facts are these:


You implied that Churchill ordered Repulse and POW out of Singapore to contest the invasion, that is false. Churchill gave no orders regarding Repulse and POW between PH and their loss.

You also stated that Japan had 18 carriers later amended to 11 fleet carriers on December 4, 1941. I have given links to prove this is also false.

I haven't questioned your character because I assumed you were merely ignorant but your continued refusal to admit your mistakes is troubling.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 16, 2023, 01:43:48 PM
@Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) maybe you can get somewhere with Nubbz.
Not my job.  I think it interesting to discuss.  I certainly get things wrong at times obviously.  In hindsight, it was a mistake.  Maybe a different admiral would have managed better, though really I'm not sure how it would have made any difference in the ultimate result.

It is interesting, to me, how critical airpower was in WW Two.  Things like tanks and battleships get a lot of attention but perhaps more than they should.

I like tank and aircraft stuff a lot myself.  Logistics is boring but essential.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 16, 2023, 02:10:58 PM
There is a warfare version of analytics.  I wonder if/how much AI will change the next major conflict and if there will be fewer "errors" made by military leaders.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 16, 2023, 02:16:49 PM
I had a buddy in grad school who  had all these board based war games refighting old battles, mostly WW 2.  We'd stay up all night doing one of them.  Then they went to computers and I would play against a computer and basically win every time, the computer algorithms back then were rudimentary.

I have one somewhere for the PTO and you can play either side.  If you take the US, you basically end up just bludgeoning the poor Japanese with massive stuff coming on line late in 1943.  Which is, well, duh.  If you play the Japanese side, you quickly start having major issues with training because it requires gasoline which requires oil.  So, you have to develop oil resources quickly, and basically, you can't.  It's an unholy mess.  But I did learn a lot of geography.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on December 16, 2023, 02:23:19 PM
I never called you a liar, but you did make multiple false statements. I just assumed you were ignorant.

The facts are these:

  • Admiral Cunningham and hid officers at Singapore ordered Repulse and POW out to contest the invasion of Malaysia, Churchill had nothing to do with it.
  • Japan had six operationsl fleet carriers as of December 7, 1941 and NEVER had more than that operational at any one time.

You implied that Churchill ordered Repulse and POW out of Singapore to contest the invasion, that is false. Churchill gave no orders regarding Repulse and POW between PH and their loss.

You also stated that Japan had 18 carriers later amended to 11 fleet carriers on December 4, 1941. I have given links to prove this is also false.

I haven't questioned your character because I assumed you were merely ignorant but your continued refusal to admit your mistakes is troubling.
I show that number as 11 carriers is the difference based on the word fleet
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 16, 2023, 02:28:37 PM
Yup, the term fleet carrier is fairly well defined.  The Japanese did have other "light carriers", one of which was sunk early in the war at Coral Sea.

Japanese aircraft carrier Shōhō | Military Wiki | Fandom (https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Japanese_aircraft_carrier_Shōhō)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 16, 2023, 04:12:34 PM

I haven't questioned your character because I assumed you were merely ignorant but your continued refusal to admit your mistakes is troubling.
The amusement continues,FFS have some dignity and quit calling on another poster for validation and to back your play. Address the evidence on the video Pound/Eden/Historian all quoted,there is a comment section call him out and his sources - I'll grab the popcorn.



(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia1.tenor.com%2Fimages%2Ffe405e1f177fa184cbfa363acee4c220%2Ftenor.gif%3Fitemid%3D5631814&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=7bedc06f3be7437f74a9d1e3740248c96a7e627587f66a89540fb3abfa30eb77&ipo=images)
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/fe405e1f177fa184cbfa363acee4c220/tenor.gif?itemid=5631814)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 16, 2023, 05:02:33 PM
@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) please answer:


These are all false statements that you made in this thread.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 16, 2023, 07:54:09 PM
You're new attempts at slithering about aren't any more convincing than your previous ones. You are moving the goal posts and the discussion from Churchill's complicity that originally caused to YOU smugly attack my comment and character to now the sources that I cached - try staying on point if that's not asking too much. Puhleeze I gave them and you didn't bother to watch- WC had two days - TWO to call those 2 capital Ships off and or back.I left those videos with their words - WATCH THEM. Again for your edification.I gave them and you didn't bother to watch and or remember.

- On December 7th Pearl Harbor,enough said
  the 8th a quick run down
All of this basically Simultaneously
-IJF attacked Malaya after landing after marching thru Thailand
-IJF land and attack the Dutch East Indies
-Battle of Hong Kong begins as 2.5 Divions land in the Phillipines
-IJF take the Gilbert Islands also Battles of Prachaub & Kirikhan begin
-IJF take the GIs garrisoned at Shanqhai & Tientsin
-Luzon is airfields are getting bombed and Bangkok is occupied
-Landings in Tarawa & Makin Islands
-Aerial Attacks on pretty much all of them Hong Kong,Guam,Phillipines,Shanghai,Singapore,Wake Island

Don't care to hear you didn't know,care to read or it's hindsight,it's not this all 2 days before those ships were sent to Davey Jones Locker on Decenber 10th.By all means try using the address bar at the top of the page to save me from your furthering your education.You attempting to excuse the Former 1st Lord of the Admiralty and the Prime Minister WC who didn't think or bother to call off that order that he indeed sent to the Admiral of the Fleet Sir Alfred Pound on November 25th before everything above had been unfolding

https://youtu.be/pKo4deZi2_Q?list=PLsIk0qF0R1j7tjOhaZY7dUquxuHWX5n3s
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 16, 2023, 08:08:24 PM
@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) please answer:

  • Are you standing by your assertion that Churchill gave orders regarding Repulse and POW after the PH attack?
  • Are you standing by your assertion that Japan had 18 carriers as of 12/7/41?
  • Are you standing by your assertion that Japan had 11 fleet carriers as of 12/7/41?

These are all false statements that you made in this thread.
Answer these questions or you have conceded that you were wrong.

You have an unbelievable level of audacity to imply that you can teach me about the Pacific War when you don't even know how many fleet carriers the IJN had.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 16, 2023, 08:25:06 PM
https://winstonchurchill.org/publications/finest-hour/finest-hour-139/prince-of-wales-and-repulse-churchills-veiled-threat-reconsidered/


No tragedy is so poignant in British naval history as the loss of these two capital ships and so many aboard them. They had been, Churchill wrote, the only weapon in British hands, meaning a weapon of deterrence. The command of every ocean had been lost except the Atlantic. Australia and New Zealand were open to attack.

Prince of Wales and Repulse had been sent to Singapore, he wrote, “to exercise that kind of vague menace which capital ships of the highest quality whose whereabouts is unknown can impose upon all hostile naval calculations. How should we use them now? Obviously they must go to sea and vanish among the innumerable islands. There was general agreement on that.” Churchill had thought they might sail across the Pacific to join the U.S. fleet, “a proud gesture at this moment,” knitting the English-speaking world together. The existence of such a fleet would be the best possible shield for the Pacific Dominions. “But as the hour was late we decided to sleep on it, and settle the next morning what to do with the Prince of Wales and Repulse.”
These were Churchill’s undoubted intentions. What is not so sure is the decision-making process that led to the ships’ deployment: Admiral Phillips’s “Force Z.” Churchill’s part in these matters has been a subject of debate among some of the best historians, including Arthur Marder, Stephen Roskill, Correlli Barnett, Christopher Bell, Martin Middlebrook and Patrick Mahoney.


Its purpose was to deter Japan from entering the war or delay the outbreak of hostilities. The deployment was made for political reasons.On 4 November Churchill wrote to Stalin: “With the object of keeping Japan quiet we are sending our latest battleship, Prince of Wales, which can catch and kill any Japanese ship, into the Indian Ocean, and we are building up a powerful battle squadron there.”
------------------------------------------------
Now do tell us Marvelous Medina who was Chief amongst the British Politicians.Hmmm,tough one Adml.Pound?Adml.Phillips?Foreign Secretary Eden? Joseph Stalin? Careful now Santa and Cinci Dawg may be watching

Well I have a party to attend,I'd bet you're a lot of fun at one of those
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 16, 2023, 08:54:58 PM
Churchill was ass for sending them,specially after the Imperial Japanese Navy just displayed in aces 3 days earlier what sea launched airpower was capable of. He couldn't bring himself to admit that Britania didn't rule the waves anymore.Japan had not only the biggest but most advanced NAVY afloat at the dawn of WWII
This, @MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) was your first post on the issue. 

Note above that you criticized Churchill for sending Repulse and POW after PH. 

Now you are talking about an order issued:
Quote from: MrNubbz 12/16/2023, 7:54:09 PM
on November 25th before everything above had been unfolding 

Since we all know that November 25 is BEFORE December 7, I'll accept this as your admission that you were wrong.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 16, 2023, 09:45:15 PM
War Elephants

Elephants were first used in military campaigns in India around 1100 BCE. At the 331 BCE Battle of Gaugamela, Alexander the Great's forces faced 15 war elephants. Recognizing the large pachyderms' military value, Alexander began employing them in his own campaigns. The elephants' thick hides made them extremely difficult to kill or neutralize, and they easily trampled opposing forces as they charged through enemy lines.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 16, 2023, 11:26:03 PM
You boys sure know how to celebrate the weekend :57:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on December 17, 2023, 12:10:29 AM
You boys sure know how to celebrate the weekend :57:
I was just thinkin the same thing

man are we getting old
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 17, 2023, 09:07:12 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Prime Minister of Australia Disappears (1967)
Harold Holt was an Australian political leader who served in a number of cabinet positions before becoming prime minister in 1966, upon the retirement of Robert Gordon Menzies, whom Holt succeeded as Liberal party leader. During his short tenure, he increased the number of Australian troops in South Vietnam, a policy that caused controversy. He disappeared while swimming in rough surf in 1967 and is believed to have drowned.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 17, 2023, 08:58:06 PM
Since we all know that November 25 is BEFORE December 7, I'll accept this as your admission that you were wrong.
I gave you the answer petulant child.They still had two days to at least pull back and get out of range one page back.Keep throwing shyt against the wall until some sticks

(https://c.tenor.com/nR6qtqHkxRgAAAAC/godfather-the-godfather.gif)
So Congratulations on ALL you have ignored, you just keep refuting yourself with the stupidity of your own statements. I have replied with no less than FOUR LINKS of WC's debacles,1 from winstonchurchill.org and you leave 3 pages of 💩💩💩.Churchill had no business ordering Force Z into the S.China Sea & just as Custer had no business ordering the 7th Cavalry into the Little Bighorn & for the same evident reasons - both positions were untenable as History obviously attests to. Either go read/watch those sources or just have a nice cup of STFU. And don't bother with the typical 15 paragraphs of nested, tangled nonsense, nobody will read it & I won't be responding. Thank You for your cooperation
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 17, 2023, 10:22:23 PM
@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) you already admitted your initial post was factually incorrect as to dates. 

You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 18, 2023, 12:49:33 AM
I however am entitled to my own facts. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 18, 2023, 01:23:18 AM
Ain't no elephants in Guatemala!  Guadalajara?  Guadalcanal?
:57:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 18, 2023, 08:57:26 AM
guacamole
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 18, 2023, 09:53:05 AM
@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) you already admitted your initial post was factually incorrect as to dates.

You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts.
Get Help it's available,denial isn't a river in Africa
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 18, 2023, 11:06:09 AM
Get Help it's available,denial isn't a river in Africa
LoL

You falsely claimed that Churchill ordered Repulse and POW out three days after Pearl Harbor. 

Quote from: MrNubbz 12/10/2023, 2:25:40 PM
Churchill was ass for sending them,specially after the Imperial Japanese Navy just displayed in aces 3 days earlier what sea launched airpower was capable of. He couldn't bring himself to admit that Britania didn't rule the waves anymore.Japan had not only the biggest but most advanced NAVY afloat at the dawn of WWII
Are you denying that you said this?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: GopherRock on December 18, 2023, 11:11:43 AM
My only contribution to this is my grandmother's family lived with the rest of her family on the Pearl City Peninsula in late 1941. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 18, 2023, 11:11:54 AM
@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) are you willing to admit:

  • Churchill did not order Repulse and POW out of Singapore.
  • Japan did not have 18 carriers in Decembe, 1941.
  • Japan did not have 11 Fleet Carriers in Decembe, 1941.
All three of these are false statements that you implied (#1) or made #2 and #3).
You STILL haven't answered . . .
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 18, 2023, 01:02:42 PM
My only contribution to this is my grandmother's family lived with the rest of her family on the Pearl City Peninsula in late 1941.

I have no contribution.  Some history--not really weird, tho--is that both my grandfathers served during this war.  Paternal grandpa was in the Navy and served somewhere in the South Pacific, I think.  I don't know that he ever saw any combat.  Maternal grandpa was an Army medic and served in France, maybe some other places, but mostly France.  He came home with several cool photos of France, but also a helmet with a dent from the butt of a German soldier's rifle who, thankfully, did not attack my grandpa any further when he saw he was a medic.  My grandma gave me his helmet and it still gives me shivers to this day.  Every time I see that dent I think how easily things might have been very different.  Just a little different on the battlefield that day and I'd be erased from history, Marty McFly style.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 18, 2023, 06:09:50 PM
You STILL haven't answered . . .
Already did 3-4-5X quit moving the goalposts Agnes and take your laxative. From actual historians not named MB
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 18, 2023, 07:11:57 PM
Already did 3-4-5X quit moving the goalposts Agnes and take your laxative. From actual historians not named MB
None of your sources say that Churchill ordered Repulse and POW out of Singapore 3 days after Pearl Harbor. 

Japan had six fleet carriers not 11.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 18, 2023, 07:17:05 PM
Hint:
Nobody ordered Repulse and POW to do anything three days after Pearl Harbor because they were sunk two days after Pearl Harbor. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 18, 2023, 07:35:19 PM
Hint:
💩💩💩
💩💩💩
 I thought you may have an expiration date - write down what you know,that should leave you plenty of free time to catch up





Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 18, 2023, 09:08:07 PM
@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) you made a mistake, it is OK.

Admit your mistake so we can move on
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 18, 2023, 09:09:05 PM
Churchill was ass for sending them,specially after the Imperial Japanese Navy just displayed in aces 3 days earlier what sea launched airpower was capable of. He couldn't bring himself to admit that Britania didn't rule the waves anymore.Japan had not only the biggest but most advanced NAVY afloat at the dawn of WWII
Come on @MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) 

You can't defend these obvious mistakes. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 18, 2023, 11:10:39 PM



@Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) maybe you can get somewhere with Nubbz.

Not my job.  I think it interesting to discuss. 
Man everyone that saw it for what it was - Appealing for help while you grasping at straws - shameful I'm sure you'd agree :D


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 18, 2023, 11:17:09 PM
Man everyone that saw it for what it was - Appealing for help while you grasping at straws - shameful I'm sure you'd agree :D
@MrNubbz (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=17) 

What straw?


You claimed that Churchill sent Repulse and POW out three days after Pearl Harbor. 

The fact is that Repulse and POW were sunk two days after Pearl Harbor.

Do you disagree?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 18, 2023, 11:42:56 PM

Churchill's orders regarding the two ships were obviously issued LONG before Pearl Harbor. The ships left England weeks before Pearl Harbor and Churchill's control ended then.
Your misleading bullshit is the stuff of legend.
🔸The Ark Royal he was going to send along to Force Z got sunk in Scapa Flow November 14 by a German Sub
🔸The HMS Indomitable ran aground by Jamaica November 3 it went to Norfalk Va. for repairs and didn't even make it to the Sri Lanka until January'42
🔸The HMS Formidable didn't join the fleet until December 12
🔸The HMS Victorious  was conducting operations in the North Atlantic
CHurchill absolutely knew-KNEW the aircraft situation.And didn't bother calling Force Z back
So if you didn't know any of that then you are ignorant,if you did you're willing deceitful - what is it? Nevermind it's the Holidays and I don't want use Drew's bandwidth or subject the others to your waterboarding diatribes


  • Again, not the Prime Minister's nor even the First Lord of the Admiralty's job to determine and dictate local tactical decisions.  If you want to say somebody was stupid and that stupidity caused the loss of Repulse and POW that is fine but your insistence of directing this criticism at Prime Minister Churchill is bizarre. 
Take a deep breath - for about 20 minutes.Your insistance at defending this brandy plied hack at the highest level is worse given the fact you've had 81 yrs of what in your case is appropriately titled HIND sight.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 18, 2023, 11:54:23 PM
Your misleading bullshit is the stuff of legend.
🔸The Ark Royal he was going to send along to Force Z got sunk in Scapa Flow November 14 by a german Sub
🔸The HMS Indomitable ran aground by Jamaica November 3 it went to Norfalk Va. for repairs and didn't even make it to the Sri Lanka until January'42

🔸The HMS Formidable didn't join the fleet until December 12
🔸The HMS Victorious  was conducting operations in the North Atlantic
CHurchill absolutely knew-KNEW the aircraft situation.And didn't bother calling Force Z back
So if you didn't know any of that then you are ignorant,if you did you're willing deceitful - what is it? Nevermind it's the Holidays and I don't want use Drew's bandwidth or subject the others to your waterboarding diatribes

Take a deep breath - for about 20 minutes.Your insistance at defending this brandy plied hack at the highest level is worse given the fact you've had 81 yrs of what in your case is appropriately titled HIND sight.

Churchill screwed up knowing-KNOWING that Pearl just got leveled,simultaneaosy
I know all of the above.

None of it changes the fact that Churchill didn't send Repulse and POW out after Pearl Harbor.

As I've said repeatedly, there are plenty of legitimate criticisms of Churchill but this simply isn't one of them.

After Pearl Harbor Cunningham (not Churchill) sent Repulse and POW out.

You were also wrong about the timeline again because you claimed that Churchill did this three days after Pearl Harbor but nobody ordered Repulse and POW to do anything three days after Pearl Harbor because they were sunk two days after Pearl Harbor.

Just admit you made a mistake.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 19, 2023, 12:28:11 AM
None of your sources say that Churchill ordered Repulse and POW out of Singapore 3 days after Pearl Harbor.

🔸On December 7th Pearl Harbor flattened Much of the US Pacific Fleet lost

🔸 Simultaneously(differnt time zones)

🔸IJF attacked Malaya after landing after marching thru Thailand

🔸IJF land and attack the Dutch East Indies

🔸Battle of Hong Kong begins as 2.5 Divions land in the Phillipines

🔸IJF take the Gilbert Islands also Battles of Prachaub & Kirikhan begin

🔸IJF take the GIs garrisoned at Shanqhai & Tientsin

🔸Luzon's airfields are getting bombed and Bangkok is occupied

🔸Landings in Tarawa & Makin Islands

🔸Aerial Attacks on Hong Kong,Guam,Phillipines,Shanghai,Singapore,Wake Island

Churchill knowingly KNOWINGLY - appraised of all of this about the same time as FDR. But make NO mistake it is of his making w/o aircover and enemy operations exploding all around the Pacific Rim and he still didn't order them with two full days to at least get out of range.And Force Z were too damn brave and honorable to ask. 



 But you can't admit it because you've been wagging your tongue to the contrary for way too long .Again,obstinateness is not an argument. Watch Sun Tzu's Art of War on YT he damn sure would have pointed right at Churchill. Odd that at least he agreed to the Dunkirk Evacution right across the the channel but wouldn't give them the green light half way around the world with little or no assistance? And you want to lecture me or anyone else?Makes Sense 



   (https://media1.tenor.com/images/49f1f37a9eae1705b6ced1b14c2b4928/tenor.gif?itemid=4827080)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 19, 2023, 12:35:04 AM
I know all of the above.
  (https://media.tenor.com/images/32bacce37ab96b986e71cf10538a3b96/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 19, 2023, 12:47:46 AM
two full days

Quote from: MrNubbz 12/10/2023, 2:25:40 PM
Churchill was ass for sending them,specially after the Imperial Japanese Navy just displayed in aces 3 days earlier what sea launched airpower was capable of. He couldn't bring himself to admit that Britania didn't rule the waves anymore.Japan had not only the biggest but most advanced NAVY afloat at the dawn of WWII

Thank you for admitting this mistake.

Your new argument that Churchill should have recalled Repulse and POW is an opinion. You are entitled to your opinion. 

Your previous statement was that he sent them after Pearl Harbor. That isn't an opinion it is a factually inaccurate statement. 

You could have avoided all of this by admitting your mistakes a long time ago.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 19, 2023, 01:02:57 AM
You've just been upgraded to me feeling sorry for you.WHat are you babbling about now were you worked so silly you're now realizing hallucinations? You remind me of one of those Buckeye fans who keep embarrassing themselves OH-IO,OH-IO,OH-IO,
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on December 19, 2023, 01:03:51 AM

You could have avoided all of this by admitting your mistakes a long time ago.
Are you really MrNubbz's exwife in disguise and we didnt know?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 19, 2023, 01:20:56 AM
You've just been upgraded to me feeling sorry for you.WHat are you babbling about now were you worked so silly you're now realizing hallucinations? You remind me of one of those Buckeye fans who keep embarrassing themselves OH-IO,OH-IO,OH-IO,
There is no need for this.

You made a simple mistake. I called you out on it, you argued for 8 days then finally admitted that you were wrong on the timeline and that you misstated your criticism as "sent them" when you meant "failed to call them back".

How did I get worked? YOU screwed up the timeline. YOU falsely claimed that Churchill sent Repulse and POW after Pearl Harbor.

Sounds like you got worked. 

Deal with it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 19, 2023, 01:21:27 AM
You have been carved up worse than the Christmas Goose - only he had more sense - get help. 

A Christmas Carol was published December 19, 1843 -  179 yrs ago
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 19, 2023, 01:50:10 AM
🔸The Ark Royal he was going to send along to Force Z got sunk in Scapa Flow November 14 by a German Sub
I was going to let this slide but you are being such an 🫏 that you don't deserve the courtesy. 

Ark Royal wasn't sunk in Scapa Flow. I don't feel like looking it up right now but I'm pretty sure it was sunk in the Mediterranean after one of the Malta runs. 

You are confusing Carrier Ark Royal with Battleship Royal Oak which was sunk at Scapa Flow two years earlier. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 19, 2023, 01:52:12 AM
You have been carved up worse than the Christmas Goose - only he had more sense - get help.

A Christmas Carol was published December 19, 1843 -  179 yrs ago
You got caught in multiple false statements and I've been carved up, to quote you:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 19, 2023, 02:26:03 AM

How did I get worked? YOU screwed up the timeline. YOU falsely claimed that Churchill sent Repulse and POW after Pearl Harbor.
How in your morbid mindset to you confuse "sent"^^^^^from "calling back"vvvvv" they have completely different meanigs - don't put words in my mouth. Read it over,you can even move your lips or have it read to you or just leave me the hell alone like you should have done in the 1st place when I wasn't talking to you


Your misleading bullshit is the stuff of legend.
🔸The Ark Royal he was going to send along to Force Z got sunk in Scapa Flow November 14 by a German Sub
🔸The HMS Indomitable ran aground by Jamaica November 3 it went to Norfalk Va. for repairs and didn't even make it to the Sri Lanka until January'42
🔸The HMS Formidable didn't join the fleet until December 12
🔸The HMS Victorious  was conducting operations in the North Atlantic
CHurchill absolutely knew-KNEW the aircraft situation.And didn't bother calling Force Z back
So if you didn't know any of that then you are ignorant,if you did you're willing deceitful - what is it?



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 19, 2023, 02:31:56 AM
You are confusing Carrier Ark Royal with Battleship Royal Oak which was sunk at Scapa Flow two years earlier.
Yes on this I entirely concede I confused the two you were actually right - my mistake. Where it was sunk is irrelevant though it changes nothing as the Ark Royal was indeed sunk on November 14th and could not be sent for Air Cover in the South China Sea was the obvious point you look past. With the other Carriers sidelined also that left  Force Z with little cover when the hostilities hit the fan
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 19, 2023, 02:38:02 AM
How in your morbid mindset to you confuse "sent"^^^^^from "calling back"vvvvv" they have completely different meanigs
Um . . .
This is exactly my point.

Originally you said sent:
Churchill was ass for sending them,specially after the Imperial Japanese Navy just displayed in aces 3 days earlier what sea launched airpower was capable of. He couldn't bring himself to admit that Britania didn't rule the waves anymore.Japan had not only the biggest but most advanced NAVY afloat at the dawn of WWII
Later you switched to didn't order them:

Quote from: MrNubbz 12/19/2023, 12:28:11 AM
Churchill knowingly KNOWINGLY - appraised of all of this about the same time as FDR. But make NO mistake it is of his making w/o aircover and enemy operations exploding all around the Pacific Rim and he still didn't order them with two full days to at least get out of range.And Force Z were too damn brave and honorable to ask.

The first statement of yours is false. The second is true.

As you yourself said "they have completely different meanigs".
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 19, 2023, 02:45:49 AM
You have serious comprehension problems - are you cooking meth?.Seagulls have come out of Jet engines making more sense than that.Not false you can't see over the piles of shit you left Churchill sent them on there long journey.And after the massive attacks everywhere he still had two days to order them out to sea out of range  of Japanese Bombers - I can not make it any simpler.He pushed them off the Cliff and you're blaming the guys who didn't catch them at the bottom,SMDH
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 19, 2023, 03:00:41 AM

Churchill was ass for sending them,specially after the Imperial Japanese Navy just displayed in aces 3 days earlier what sea launched airpower was capable of.
This is YOUR post. YOU state that Churchill sent them AFTER Pearl Harbor. 


This is plainly false. 

That and the 3 days thing were my objections from the beginning. 

You've conceded on both. My work here is done.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 19, 2023, 08:08:31 AM
ya see what happens Larry?

Do you see what happens when the Buckeyes lose to Michigan 3 straight?

the Buckeyes start arguing with themselves! 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 19, 2023, 08:10:54 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Original FIFA World Cup Trophy Is Stolen (1983)
The World Cup has been held every fourth year since 1930, except during WWII. The international soccer tournament's original prize was officially renamed the Jules Rimet Trophy in 1946 in honor of the former Fédération Internationale de Football Association (FIFA) president, who stipulated that the first team to win the World Cup three times could keep the trophy in perpetuity. Brazil earned this right in 1970, but, in 1983, the trophy was stolen while on display there.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 19, 2023, 11:42:36 AM
This is YOUR post. YOU state that Churchill sent them AFTER Pearl Harbor.
This is plainly false.
That and the 3 days thing were my objections from the beginning.Your pants are filled again - ring the nurses station. What other rare gems have you mined for me today? Thank You for your bloated essays not only misquoting me but then attacking the words you assigned to my posts.

You've conceded on both.You're realizing hallucinations again,which works well as you'll see Santa before you'll find that
My work here is done.Well done,burnt actually
I think this guy knows you Medina

https://youtu.be/Y8ErIhq3H10
We're you born an asshole or did you work at it your whole life,
either way it worked out fine, 'Cause you're an asshole tonite
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 19, 2023, 11:58:33 AM
Churchill was ass for sending them,specially after the Imperial Japanese Navy just displayed in aces 3 days earlier what sea launched airpower was capable of. He couldn't bring himself to admit that Britania didn't rule the waves anymore.Japan had not only the biggest but most advanced NAVY afloat at the dawn of WWII
LoL.
If this is a misquote, take it up with @Drew4UTk (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1) .

It is not, these are YOUR words. I've never misquoted you.

You said it, I called out your mistakes, you argued for a week before conceding.

Then you have the audacity to attack me personally?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 19, 2023, 12:05:23 PM
Stop acting appalled nancy you've suggested i was ignorant and lie.you dish it out change the script but bitch when it flies back in your face. Look you tried luring Cinci to defend your carnival barking,pretty sure Drew isn't like you dragging him into your fantasies either for any reason after taking up more band width.Now you may have your cup of STFU
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on December 19, 2023, 12:14:27 PM
Good Lord will you two please cut it out??
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 19, 2023, 12:15:31 PM
it's the offseason and the Buckeye fans don't care about the bowl game
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 19, 2023, 12:21:18 PM
Good Lord will you two please cut it out??
Just trying to revive the froth from the old Big 12 board
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 19, 2023, 12:22:05 PM
Good Lord will you two please cut it out??
You mean you're not enjoying a pedantic and acrimonious argument about assigning blame for a historical event that happened 80+ years ago, that all of the involved decision-makers are dead, and which (unlike much of history i.e. those who don't know it are doomed to repeat it) has absolutely zero tactical or strategic relevance to modern warfare? 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on December 19, 2023, 12:23:08 PM
You mean you're not enjoying a pedantic and acrimonious argument about assigning blame for a historical event that happened 80+ years ago, that all of the involved decision-makers are dead, and which (unlike much of history i.e. those who don't know it are doomed to repeat it) has absolutely zero tactical or strategic relevance to modern warfare?


Well when you put it that way, it seems crazy NOT to want it to continue...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on December 19, 2023, 12:23:46 PM
Just trying to revive the froth from the old Big 12 board
We need Cousin Freddy to come back for that.   He was always happy to generate some froth.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 19, 2023, 12:26:06 PM
Well no he was/is a pleasant gent unless you horns wound him up one too many times.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on December 19, 2023, 02:15:55 PM
Well no he was/is a pleasant gent unless you horns wound him up one too many times.
actually I always found him calm 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on December 19, 2023, 03:48:25 PM
Y'all might be forgetting his famous thread he started after the 2006 Rose Bowl, titled "Longhorn Fans, Where Is Thy Froth?"
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 19, 2023, 03:56:49 PM
Churchill was ass for sending them,specially after the Imperial Japanese Navy just displayed in aces 3 days earlier what sea launched airpower was capable of. He couldn't bring himself to admit that Britania didn't rule the waves anymore.Japan had not only the biggest but most advanced NAVY afloat at the dawn of WWII
These are your words, they are false. Are you willing to own up to that?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 19, 2023, 04:04:34 PM
Stop acting appalled nancy you've suggested i was ignorant and lie.you dish it out change the script but bitch when it flies back in your face. Look you tried luring Cinci to defend your carnival barking,pretty sure Drew isn't like you dragging him into your fantasies either for any reason after taking up more band width.Now you may have your cup of STFU
I haven't engaged in personal attacks that is all on you. I don't recall saying that you lied but your ignorance is apparent for all to see. You screwed up the 3 days / 2 days thing and falsely stated that Churchill sent Repulse and POW three days AFTER Pearl Harbor. 

I only mentioned drew because literally every time I've quoted you I've used Drew's "quote" function to directly quote you. In spite of that you falsely accused me of misquoting you. You absolutely have not been misquoted but if you had, it could only be a website issue.

Look, you've made a tremendous fuss defending your false statements so I can understand your desire to deny making the statement but you are better than that and it is manifestly unfair to our host. 

They are your words, they are false, own your mistakes.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 19, 2023, 04:09:40 PM
I haven't engaged in personal attacks that is all on you. 
(https://media.tenor.com/DozZTQmVXIEAAAAC/oh-sure-john-candy.gif) (https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftenor.com%2Fview%2Foh-sure-john-candy-ok-gif-15377612&psig=AOvVaw3rvx6PIL4zFeax0Trdzxwr&ust=1702081404611000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CBEQjRxqFwoTCPiBi8DJ_oIDFQAAAAAdAAAAABAE)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 19, 2023, 04:11:14 PM
Y'all might be forgetting his famous thread he started after the 2006 Rose Bowl, titled "Longhorn Fans, Where Is Thy Froth?"
I managed to attain his wrath when some no-name TB from OU took 4 quarters to break Melvin Gordon's record rushing day, which he did in 3 quarters. All I did was say the OU coaches made sure that record fell by keeping the kid in for the whole game.

I thought 408 yards against Nebraska would stick. 25 carries, 16.3 YPC, 4 touchdowns.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 19, 2023, 04:17:42 PM
Y'all done it now...

:98:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 19, 2023, 04:19:52 PM
:cool2:
Hell bring back the time outs I have plenty of shopping to do and working on the blower plus two more parties.But it'll kill him,consider it a public service
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 19, 2023, 04:54:19 PM
Y'all done it now...

:98:
:sign0096:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 19, 2023, 05:21:27 PM
Y'all might be forgetting his famous thread he started after the 2006 Rose Bowl, titled "Longhorn Fans, Where Is Thy Froth?"
infamous
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 19, 2023, 05:22:40 PM
I managed to attain his wrath when some no-name TB from OU took 4 quarters to break Melvin Gordon's record rushing day, which he did in 3 quarters. All I did was say the OU coaches made sure that record fell by keeping the kid in for the whole game.

I thought 408 yards against Nebraska would stick. 25 carries, 16.3 YPC, 4 touchdowns.
you thought wrong
derned Sooners
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 20, 2023, 08:31:54 AM
President Teddy Roosevelt, an environmentalist, banned Christmas trees from the White House in 1901.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 20, 2023, 08:39:16 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Electricity Generated for First Time at Nuclear Power Plant (1951)
Now a US National Historic Landmark, the Experimental Breeder Reactor I in Idaho became the world's first electricity-generating nuclear power plant in 1951, when it produced enough electricity to illuminate four light bulbs. After the initial test, it subsequently generated sufficient electricity to power its building and continued to be used for experimental purposes until it was decommissioned in 1964.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 20, 2023, 11:36:56 AM
I managed to attain his wrath when some no-name TB from OU took 4 quarters to break Melvin Gordon's record rushing day, which he did in 3 quarters. All I did was say the OU coaches made sure that record fell by keeping the kid in for the whole game.

I thought 408 yards against Nebraska would stick. 25 carries, 16.3 YPC, 4 touchdowns.

That reminds me of Leonard Fournette breaking the LSU single game rushing record in 2016 against Ole Miss.  After being sidelined for a month with a high ankle sprain, he returned to humiliate the Rebear "Land Sharks" by reeling off 284 yards on just 16 carries, good for 17.8 ypc. 

It was a record previously set by Alley Broussard in 2004, but it didn't take nearly so long for it to be broken again.  Just a couple weeks later with Fournette re-injured, backup RB Derrius Guice scraped out one more yard--285--but on 37 carries. 

It's not like 7.7 ypc is a bad day, but I was surprised LSU made such a big fuss about it.  Orgeron was campaigning to have the "Interim" tag removed from his title and he admitted he was aware of the record and no doubt he thought having two backs set records during his interim tenure would help his cause.  So he kept playing Guice and feeding him the ball.  So yeah....he did break the record, but in my mind it was almost disrespectful to what Fournette had done just weeks prior.  It's not even a question which one was the greatest RB game in LSU history.  One of those things happened organically due to sheer greatness.  The other happened purposefully, and with much more effort. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 21, 2023, 09:07:21 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
First Manned Voyage to a Celestial Body Launched (1968)
Also the first manned launch of a Saturn V rocket, Apollo 8 was the first manned voyage to a celestial body—the Moon. It took about three days for the craft to enter lunar orbit, whereupon it proceeded to orbit the Moon 10 times in 20 hours. The three crew members were the first humans to see the far side of the Moon—an important precursor to the historic lunar landing that would occur less than a year later.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 21, 2023, 11:25:41 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
First Manned Voyage to a Celestial Body Launched (1968)
Also the first manned launch of a Saturn V rocket, Apollo 8 was the first manned voyage to a celestial body—the Moon. It took about three days for the craft to enter lunar orbit, whereupon it proceeded to orbit the Moon 10 times in 20 hours. The three crew members were the first humans to see the far side of the Moon—an important precursor to the historic lunar landing that would occur less than a year later.
The Appolo astronauts are the only humans ever to travel beyond an earth 🌎 orbit. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on December 21, 2023, 11:30:28 AM
The Appolo astronauts are the only humans ever to travel beyond an earth 🌎 orbit.
also first golf shot 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 21, 2023, 12:05:26 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/DxKa9PR.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 23, 2023, 10:33:17 AM
FACT OF THE DAY:

Saudi Arabia is the largest country in the world without a river.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 23, 2023, 10:46:40 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Tokyo Tower Completed (1958)
In the postwar boom of the 1950s, Japan was searching for a monument to symbolize its ascendancy as a global economic powerhouse. Inspired by the Eiffel Tower in Paris, France, architects designed the 1,093-foot- (333-meter-) tall Tokyo Tower, the world's tallest self-supporting steel structure. Today, the Tokyo Tower serves as a television and radio communications tower and is also a major tourist attraction.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 24, 2023, 08:58:17 AM
FACT OF THE DAY:

In the mid 1800s, poet Thomas Nash wrote a poem that famously placed Santa's home in the North Pole, even though the original saint lived in Turkey. Nash most likely chose the North Pole because, at the time, there were several scientific explorations to the North Pole, a region that was seen as a type of fantasy land, mysterious and just out of reach.

_______________________________________________

BETHLEHEM, West Bank (AP) — The normally bustling biblical birthplace of Jesus resembled a ghost town on Sunday, as Christmas Eve celebrations in Bethlehem were called off due to the Israel-Hamas war.

The festive lights and Christmas tree that normally decorate Manger Square were missing, as were the throngs of foreign tourists and jubilant youth marching bands that gather in the West Bank town each year to mark the holiday. Dozens of Palestinian security forces patrolled the empty square.

“This year, without the Christmas tree and without lights, there’s just darkness,” said Brother John Vinh, a Franciscan monk from Vietnam who has lived in Jerusalem for six years.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 25, 2023, 09:19:09 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/aY3NL68.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 25, 2023, 09:19:54 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/cRTVtFu.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on December 25, 2023, 10:51:35 AM
I always thought it was fascinating that there was another part of the Apollo program called Apollo Applications where they had plans to send a manned probe to slingshot around Venus and Mars.  On the same trip. They would launch, head to Venus, slingshot assist out to Mars, then slingshot back to Earth. I think they were going to have two Apollo capsules connected for more space and only two crewmen. 

The only thing that came out of AAP was Skylab.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 25, 2023, 12:07:52 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Baldwin I Crowned First King of Jerusalem (1100)
The son of a French count, Baldwin joined the First Crusade and created the first Crusader state when in 1098 he gained control of Edessa, now in Turkey. In 1100, his brother Godfrey died in Jerusalem, and Baldwin was summoned by the nobles to succeed him as king of the Crusader state. He expanded the kingdom by conquering coastal cities and established an administration that served for 200 years as the basis for Frankish rule in Syria and Palestine.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 25, 2023, 02:07:18 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/cRTVtFu.png)
Is that where you hid the clubs from the EX
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 25, 2023, 04:29:56 PM
Hah, I even kept her clubs.  Gave them to the daughter 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 25, 2023, 09:57:42 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/iKO1B46.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 27, 2023, 03:11:49 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/wrbF0D9.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 27, 2023, 03:45:21 PM
Alot of Chrismas shows back then used it - who knew

But the scarecrow Ray Bolger lived to 83
The Cowardly Lion Bert Lahr lived to 72
The Tin Man Jack Haley lived to 82
The WWoW Margaret Hamilton lived to 83
The Wizz Frank Morgan lived to 59
Dorothy well unfortunately got hooked on Liquor and perscription drugs
So collectively not a bad run
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 27, 2023, 04:50:46 PM
yup, all that REALLY dangerous stuff that has been banned might not have been so bad.

Lawyers made some $$$
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 27, 2023, 07:47:30 PM
Well back in the 80s I assisted a retired Engineer repack fire brick in the combustion chambers/fire box and the front and rear tube sheets on some fire tube boilers. The guy would do maintenance when the Boilers were down for summer break at schools.He worked for Standard Oil and BP at refinneries doing all sorts of this work. He would mix this batter much like a baker mixes dough - bags of it with asbestos in them.Back then they didn't use self contained breathing apparatus or even masks.

I had heard AL lived to 83 and he spent a lifetime in and around these areas of work.However many types of asbestos have hook/shank like fibers that did embedd in skin or organs - much like a fish hook and then the problems begin. No way to really remove them either. As long as it was wrapped/packed right containment was OK but had to be routinely maintained. Not for personal safety as they really didn't know at the time but smooth operation of the equipment. Fiberglass was a problem but is relatively straight fibers so could be coughed or brushed out. I guess problems were predicated on work environment, type of asbestos,the individual and luck
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Riffraft on December 28, 2023, 10:04:19 AM
Well back in the 80s I assisted a retired Engineer repack fire brick in the combustion chambers/fire box and the front and rear tube sheets on some fire tube boilers. The guy would do maintenance when the Boilers were down for summer break at schools.He worked for Standard Oil and BP at refinneries doing all sorts of this work. He would mix this batter much like a baker mixes dough - bags of it with asbestos in them.Back then they didn't use self contained breathing apparatus or even masks.

I had heard AL lived to 83 and he spent a lifetime in and around these areas of work.However many types of asbestos have hook/shank like fibers that did embedd in skin or organs - much like a fish hook and then the problems begin. No way to really remove them either. As long as it was wrapped/packed right containment was OK but had to be routinely maintained. Not for personal safety as they really didn't know at the time but smooth operation of the equipment. Fiberglass was a problem but is relatively straight fibers so could be coughed or brushed out. I guess problems were predicated on work environment, type of asbestos,the individual and luck
My dad work as an electrician from 1956 to 1969.  Worked a lot of job in abestos.  Not one of the lucky ones, died of complication due to abestosis at the age of 73.  So Lived a relatively long life, but suffered quite a bit at the end.  

That said, it is a shame they have pretty much banned the use of Abestos because it does have usefulness that is hard to replace. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 28, 2023, 10:19:44 AM
It is directly related to mesothelioma, a particularly aggressive and nasty form of cancer.  Those who get it, aren't going to have the feel-good remission stories that other cancer patients may have.  My mom's cousin was just diagnosed with it and he's going downhill fast.  You don't get mesothelioma without asbestos exposure.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 28, 2023, 10:57:30 AM
My dad work as an electrician from 1956 to 1969.  Worked a lot of job in abestos.  Not one of the lucky ones, died of complication due to abestosis at the age of 73.  So Lived a relatively long life, but suffered quite a bit at the end. 

That said, it is a shame they have pretty much banned the use of Abestos because it does have usefulness that is hard to replace.
Sorry to hear that RR and i agree it takes like over 2000° to burn it so it could seal effectively in those applications.The one Boiler Man Al I'm not sure how he passed it could have been from that. Abestos wasn't a problem cleaning/moving/containing it if proper measures were followed
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 29, 2023, 09:33:24 AM
On this day, December 29, 178 years ago in 1845, Texas allowed the United States to join it.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 29, 2023, 09:48:14 AM
God Bless Texas
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 29, 2023, 09:49:17 AM
FACT OF THE DAY:

The fork gain popularity in Italy before any other European country because it allowed Italians to better spear and twirl their beloved spaghetti.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 31, 2023, 08:40:39 AM
The Air France Robbery

In the 1960s, Air France was used to transport American money exchanged in France back to the US. Once the currency reached New York's JFK International Airport, it was locked in a secure strong room. In 1967, 23-year-old mobster Henry Hill orchestrated an audacious robbery of the Air France cargo terminal. Using a copy of the strong room key, Hill and his associates quietly stole $420,000. They raised no alarm and were never prosecuted for the crime.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 01, 2024, 09:17:14 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Edwin Hubble Announces Existence of Other Galaxies (1925)
Edwin Hubble worked as a basketball coach and teacher, served in World War I, and studied law before focusing his energies on astronomy. On January 1, 1925, he made a groundbreaking announcement, declaring that fuzzy "nebulae" seen earlier with less powerful telescopes were not part of our galaxy but were actually galaxies themselves. With the findings now known as Hubble's law
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 01, 2024, 09:51:47 AM
On this day, December 29, 178 years ago in 1845, Texas allowed the United States to join it. 
Then the Bastages portaled in 1861....for a spell anyway
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 01, 2024, 09:58:12 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
Edwin Hubble Announces Existence of Other Galaxies (1925)
Hell the patrons of any tavern or inn could tell you that during happy Hour 🚀
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 01, 2024, 10:11:58 AM
apparently, not in 1924

slackers
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 01, 2024, 12:01:24 PM
Hubble's "Law" is somewhat related, but more related to the Big Bang Theory.

And it has a weirdness in it today.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 01, 2024, 12:35:19 PM
apparently, not in 1924

slackers
sleeping it off
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 02, 2024, 10:02:03 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Discovery of the Planet Vulcan Is Announced (1860)
To account for inconsistencies between Mercury's predicted and observed orbital path, French astronomer Urbain Jean Joseph Leverrier postulated that a tiny, hypothetical planet, which he named Vulcan, was present within Mercury's orbit. Sightings of Vulcan were reported until 1878, and Leverrier died believing he had discovered another planet. Eventually, however, the orbital anomalies were explained by Einstein's general theory of relativity.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 02, 2024, 10:23:58 AM
Born in Omaha in 1924, Marlon Brando became one of the 20th century's most notable actors. His iconic performance in 1972's The Godfather earned him an Academy Award. He's pictured here at the Blackstone Hotel with his parents in 1953. (Omaha World-Herald photo)

(https://i.imgur.com/o4T56X0.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 02, 2024, 02:37:10 PM
How the 1919 Solar Eclipse Made Einstein the World's Most Famous Scientist | Discover Magazine (https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/how-the-1919-solar-eclipse-made-einstein-the-worlds-most-famous-scientist?utm_campaign=organicsocial&utm_content=🗄️from_the_archive%3A_🌞_on_&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0oPAU5DOCtTHkV2Cv-x6wJ6zre-EU5an5qHcIJK08TQ3oJnrS4o1PQwA0)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 07, 2024, 06:29:45 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/jBAnOQ0.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 07, 2024, 06:40:22 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/4LAXh4Q.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 07, 2024, 06:42:20 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/nDgc0Qe.png)

This is part of the reason our langauage is so complex.  And of course in 1066 more stuff happened.   The Breton language in Brittany has some overlap with English today.

I used to wonder why English was classified as Indo-european instead of Romance (Latin derived).  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 07, 2024, 07:43:24 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/HfvsbeR.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 07, 2024, 10:01:07 AM
′′ Few people know that Popeye's character (Arm wrestle) really existed. His real name was Frank ′′ Rocky ′′ Fiegel, born in Poland in 1868. he emigrated with his family to America where in 1887 he joined the Navy.
When he was with children he held the pipe with the corner of his mouth and told them the antics of his youth, often boasting of his physical strength and loudly claiming that spinach is the food that makes him invincible.
Popeye's character creator Elzie Crisler Segar was born in Chester and was one of the children who had the privilege of hearing ′′ live ′′ the stories of the former sailor."


(https://i.imgur.com/0WucpH9.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 07, 2024, 12:41:09 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/wzO3FMR.png)

An unidentified man takes a photograph of Stone Mountain in the 1920s prior to the start of carving.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 07, 2024, 10:08:17 PM


Texas History: On Junuary 4th in 1962, ground was broken to begin the building of the Astrodome in Houston. It was the first fully air-conditioned, enclosed, domed, multipurpose sports stadium in the world.


(https://i.imgur.com/5LH0buK.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 08, 2024, 09:01:03 AM
The Iroquois Confederacy

The Iroquois Confederacy is a North American confederacy of indigenous peoples founded by the prophet Deganawidah and his disciple Hiawatha around 1570. In the early 17th c, it inhabited New York State from the Hudson River north to the St Lawrence River and west to the Genesee River. Once their confederacy, complete with a constitution known as the Gayanashagowa, ceased infighting, the Iroquois rapidly became the one of the strongest forces in N America.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 08, 2024, 09:43:59 AM
In the depths of the U.S., beyond the bustling cities and serene landscapes, lies an eerie, clandestine repository known as Trench 94—a chilling graveyard where retired nuclear submarines meet their final rest.

This obscured site, shielded from public view, holds a haunting legacy of decommissioned sub-parts entombed in storage, crafting a narrative of the nuclear era's silent remnants.

Nuclear submarines, emblematic of technological prowess, emerged as a testament to human ingenuity during the atomic age. Pioneering limitless voyages across the world's oceans, these vessels traversed for up to 20 years before refueling.

Powered by atomic energy, they granted unparalleled endurance and stealth, evading adversaries without the need to surface for engine replenishment—unlike their diesel-powered counterparts, vulnerable to detection while surfacing for air.

https://interestingengineering.com/military/trench-94-the-eerie-final-resting-place-of-us-navys-nuclear-submarines (https://interestingengineering.com/military/trench-94-the-eerie-final-resting-place-of-us-navys-nuclear-submarines)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 08, 2024, 11:08:14 AM

Texas History: On Junuary 4th in 1962, ground was broken to begin the building of the Astrodome in Houston. It was the first fully air-conditioned, enclosed, domed, multipurpose sports stadium in the world.


(https://i.imgur.com/5LH0buK.png)


Man I remember my first visit to that place, to see an Astros game in the late 70s I guess.  I couldn't believe how enormous it was.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 08, 2024, 11:44:00 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/IBVmtk8.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 08, 2024, 09:26:27 PM
Ford Rotunda in Dearborn (1955)

(https://i.imgur.com/btz40Jn.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 09, 2024, 10:42:13 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Martyrs' Day: Riots over Sovereignty of Panama Canal Zone (1964)
Martyrs' Day is a Panamanian holiday commemorating the 1964 riots that began after a Panamanian flag was torn in a conflict between Panamanian and Canal Zone students over the right of the Panamanian flag to be flown alongside the US flag. US Army units became involved in suppressing the violence, and 4 soldiers and more than 20 Panamanians were killed. The incident contributed to the US decision to transfer control of the Canal Zone to Panama.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 10, 2024, 09:15:35 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First Great Texas Oil Gusher Discovered at Spindletop (1901)
In 1892, a company was formed in Texas to investigate long-held suspicions that oil might be under an area known as Spindletop Hill. After nine years of exploratory drilling, oil was struck at a depth of 1,139 ft (347 m), resulting in the "Lucas Gusher," which blew oil more than 150 ft (46 m) in the air. The well produced an estimated 100,000 barrels per day, marking what many consider the birth of the modern petroleum industry.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 11, 2024, 09:55:54 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Lawrence Textile Strike Begins in Massachusetts (1912)
The Lawrence Textile Strike was a strike of immigrant workers led by the Industrial Workers of the World (IWW), a revolutionary industrial union aimed at uniting all workers in an effort to promote socialism and overthrow capitalism. Of the 150 strikes conducted by the IWW, the Lawrence strike was one of the most notable, growing to more than 20,000 workers in one week and lasting more than two months.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 12, 2024, 09:18:43 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Maiden Voyage of RMS Queen Mary 2 (2004)
The RMS Queen Mary 2 (QM2) is a Cunard Line ocean liner named after the earlier Cunard liner Queen Mary, which was, in turn, named after Mary of Teck, the Queen Consort of George V. With 15 restaurants and bars, 5 pools, a casino, a ballroom, a theater, and a planetarium, the QM2 was the largest ocean liner in the world at the time of its construction, as well as the longest, widest, and tallest passenger ship.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 13, 2024, 09:48:23 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Black Friday Fires in Victoria, Australia (1939)
One of Australia's worst natural disasters took place in January 1939, when bushfires broke out in the state of Victoria. Over the course of several days, fires burned nearly 5 million acres of land, killing 71 people, destroying thousands of homes and businesses, and ravaging entire towns. An extremely hot and dry summer had preceded the fires, and the day they broke out, temperatures in Melbourne soared to a record 114.1 °F
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 14, 2024, 08:09:16 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

San Francisco's Human Be-In Launches "Summer of Love" (1967)
In 1967, the burgeoning counterculture movement took center stage in San Francisco as a number of figures who would become its icons gathered for a "happening" in Golden Gate Park. Announced as a "Human Be-In" in the San Francisco Oracle newspaper, the event was attended by tens of thousands of people and featured speakers Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, as well as performances by The Grateful Dead, among many others.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 15, 2024, 08:57:59 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Body of Elizabeth Short—the "Black Dahlia"—Found (1947)
Elizabeth Short was the victim of a gruesome and much-publicized murder that is still unsolved. Nicknamed the "Black Dahlia" by newspapers after her body was recovered in Leimert Park, Los Angeles, Short was found mutilated, her body severed at the waist. The unsolved murder has been the source of widespread speculation, leading to several books and film adaptations, as well as many false confessions and leads in the years since she was killed.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 15, 2024, 11:09:28 AM
The “Inquisition’s Chair,” known as the “witch’s chair,” was highly regarded as a good remedy against silent women accused of witchcraft. This common tool was especially widely used by the Austrian Inquisition.

(https://i.imgur.com/JZA4Jsp.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 16, 2024, 02:59:46 AM
College football (now) history:

Of the top 100 highest pass rating seasons by QBs, here 's how many that happened pre-2000 and were at P5 schools:
Six.
.
Who are they?
95 Wuerffel @ Florida (178)
99 Hamilton @ GA Tech (175)
94 Collins @ Penn St (173)
96 Wuerffel @ Florida (170)
95 Hoying @ Ohio St (170)
98 Smith @ Oregon (170)
.
Yes, that means no P5 QB has a top-100 passer rating season before 1994, due to the modern high-volume, high-efficiency passing games of the last 20 years.
Wow.
.
For fun, I altered these few seasons to what they would look like, given "best-QB-season-ever" Joe Burrow's 527 attempts in 2019.  The comp, att, yds, TDs, and INTs (counting stats) are altered, while the rate stats (comp %, pass rating) are not.
Just taking a break from creating orders for WN.
.
95 Wuerffel:  340 comp on 527 att for 5,281 yds and 57 TDs - 16 Int (178 pass rating)
99 Hamilton:  350 comp on 527 att for 5,285 yds and 50 TDs - 19 Int (175)
94 Collins:  351 comp on 527 att for 5,347 yds and 42 TDs - 14 Int (173)
96 Wuerffel:  303 comp on 527 att for 5,303 yds and 57 TDs - 19 Int (170)
95 Hoying:  334 comp on 527 att for 5,257 yds and 49 TDs - 19 Int (170)
98 Akili Smith:  310 comp on 527 att for 5,361 yds and 49 TDs - 11 Int (170)
.
The point of this isn't to say any of these player seasons was as good as Burrow's (they weren't, his rating was 202), just that their seasons were insanely good and just as bombastic if given the pass attempts. 
Also shows how the passing game explosion has been TOTAL, when only 6 of the top 100 passer seasons happened pre-2000, and none of the top 37.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 16, 2024, 08:53:27 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 
Fulgencio Batista (1901)
Batista was a soldier, president, and dictator who twice ruled Cuba. After working his way up through the army, he ruled first through associates before becoming president himself in 1940. In his first term, he achieved gains in education, public works, and the economy while enriching himself and his associates. He lost the 1944 election but returned to power through a US backed coup in 1952 and ran a corrupt and brutal dictatorship that set the stage for his overthrow in 1959
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 17, 2024, 09:30:10 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Captain James Cook Crosses Antarctic Circle (1773)
An explorer, navigator, and map maker, Cook sailed the Pacific Ocean between 1768 and 1779 and, with the help of new timekeeping instruments, drew the first accurate navigational maps of the area. He became the one of the first people to cross the Antarctic Circle as well as the first European to land on the Hawaiian islands, where he may have been identified by native Hawaiians as the representation of their god Lono.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 18, 2024, 08:56:44 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Dr. William Price Introduces Cremation to the UK (1884)
Price was a Welsh physician, Druid, and famous eccentric best known for introducing cremation to the UK. Eight days after the death of his five-month-old son, Jesus Christ Price, Price attempted to burn the body in accordance with his Druid beliefs. After lighting the pyre, he was arrested, but he successfully defended himself in court, resulting in a decision that set a precedent leading to the permanent legalization of cremation in the UK.


_________________________________________

Weird
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 19, 2024, 09:24:55 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Sten Sture the Younger Mortally Wounded in Battle (1520)
Sture was a Swedish statesman and regent of Sweden. When he refused to recognize Christian II of Denmark as king of Sweden, Christian sent a force to aid Sture's rival, Archbishop Gustaf Trolle, whom Sture had deposed and who was besieged in his castle. Sture defeated the Danish army and imprisoned Trolle. Warfare continued, and Sture was killed in battle, but not before he paved the way for Swedish independence, which was attained under Gustavus I.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 19, 2024, 06:27:37 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Fgu28Hn.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 19, 2024, 07:21:25 PM
The “Inquisition’s Chair,” known as the “witch’s chair,” was highly regarded as a good remedy against silent women accused of witchcraft. This common tool was especially widely used by the Austrian Inquisition.

(https://i.imgur.com/JZA4Jsp.png)
Hope the designers who implemented this are now taking their joyrides - for the rest of whatever

PS -  looks like something Cleveland Sport Fans have endured since '48 & '64 respectively
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 19, 2024, 08:19:47 PM
It's what I imagine plane seats on flights to Australia look like...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 20, 2024, 09:39:04 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Edward VIII Becomes King (1936)
Edward VIII became king of Great Britain and Ireland upon the death of his father, George V, in 1936. He enjoyed immense popularity until the announcement of his intention to marry Wallis Warfield Simpson, an American in the midst of divorcing her second husband. The government opposed the marriage, and the two sides clashed until Edward executed a deed of abdication, ending a 325-day reign as the first English monarch to relinquish his throne voluntarily.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 22, 2024, 08:50:19 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
After 16 Years of Terrorizing New York City, Mad Bomber Arrested (1957)
Known as the Mad Bomber, George P. Metesky terrorized New York City for 16 years in the 1940s and 1950s with dozens of explosive devices that he planted in terminals, libraries, offices, phone booths, storage lockers, and restrooms in public buildings. He also bombed movie theaters by hiding his bombs within the upholstery of the seats. Metesky planted at least 33 bombs, and despite the fact that he often placed warning calls in advance of his bombings, 15 people were injured.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 22, 2024, 08:38:16 PM
***Hospodář ***
The photo is of Czechoslovak Publishing, home of the West News, and specifically,
The West News, Centennial Edition 1890-1990, November 1990. From the Sonny Helm Collection
The Hospodář was founded by Jan Rosicky in Omaha, Nebraska in 1890/91 and then continued publishing in West, Texas. The paper continued publication in the Czech language until 1985. During the communist control the paper was mailed to Czechoslovakia, in part to help challenge propaganda being spread there.
Now if the word hospodář means farmer, then how do we get hospóda as the word for tavern? What is the connection? Note that *hospóda also means house. *In Hungry the word hospod means Lord (God). So in the Slavic languages this very well is used as be the base of the word and how it came into use for “lord of the house” (or property, farm or tavern).
The word for lord or master came from the Proto-Slavic word gospodü. In Czech the archaic term for master was hospodář Note that in the various Slavic languages some use the h beginning and some use the g.
The Czech hospodář (archaic term for "master"). All forms stem from the Proto-Slavik word gospodü In Czech, the word Hospodin (capitalized) is another address to God.
And so the use of the word hospodář for the Czech newspaper, means more than just farmer, it essentially means lord of the land.
Oh, and the Czech word for tavern, hospod, has nothing to do with being a place of worship (while there are some who may disagree).


(https://i.imgur.com/zqUO65U.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 23, 2024, 08:41:26 AM
Terezín

The fortress of Terezín was constructed in the late 18th century in what is now the Czech Republic. In the early 1900s, it held famed prisoner Gavrilo Princip, who assassinated the Archduke of Austria, causing the outbreak of WWI. The Nazis took control of Terezín in 1940 and quickly turned it into concentration camp called Theresienstadt. The camp was presented to the outside world as a model Jewish settlement,  approximately 144,000 Jews were sent to Theresienstadt
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 23, 2024, 08:42:24 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Elva Zona Heaster Discovered Dead (1897)
Shortly after marrying drifter Erasmus Shue, Heaster was found dead and was soon buried. Her mother, who suspected foul play, claimed to have had a vision in which her daughter's ghost stated that Shue had broken her neck, killing her. When the body was exhumed, an autopsy confirmed that Heaster's neck had been broken, and Shue was tried for murder. the ghost—since known as the Greenbrier Ghost for Heaster's hometown of Greenbrier County, West Virginia
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 23, 2024, 09:30:53 AM
Terezín

The fortress of Terezín was constructed in the late 18th century in what is now the Czech Republic. 
Nice old corner pub on the other side of town called the Czech Inn - think it's still there
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 23, 2024, 10:51:29 AM
can ya get a bag of kolaches there to soak up the beer
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 23, 2024, 11:09:09 AM
Kolaches weren't very easy to find when I visited the Czech Republic.  They're far more plentiful here in Texico.

I guess they're not so commercialized over there-- perhaps it's something grandma bakes just for the family on Sunday afternoons, rather than a common bakery item?

I finally found some at a little convenience store located inside the subway tunnels under Prague.  That store also had 6-packs of Bernard Czech pilsner for what equaled about $0.25/bottle.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 24, 2024, 08:21:41 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Japanese WWII Soldier Found Hiding in Guam Jungle (1972)
Shoichi Yokoi was a Japanese soldier who went into hiding in the jungles of Guam in 1944 as Allied forces took the island; 28 years later, he was still there. He had hidden in an underground cave, fearing to come out of hiding even after finding leaflets declaring that WWII had ended. In 1972, he was found by hunters and returned to Japan. He was the third-to-last Japanese soldier to surrender after the war, before Hiroo Onoda and Teruo Nakamura.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 25, 2024, 07:27:15 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
League of Nations Founded (1919)
The League of Nations was an organization for international cooperation, peace, and security established by the Allied Powers at the end of WWI. A league covenant providing for an assembly, a council, and a secretariat was formulated at the Paris Peace Conference and contained in the Treaty of Versailles. Headquartered at Geneva, the League was weakened by the failure of the US, which had not ratified the Treaty of Versailles, to join the confederation.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 25, 2024, 07:28:04 AM


Pirate Mary Read
Read, an Englishwoman who was born in the late 17th century, spent much of her life disguised as a man and working in industries generally reserved for men. She was on a ship bound for the West Indies when it was captured by pirate captain Calico Jack Rackham. Read joined his crew and became one of the most notorious female pirates of the time. When Rackham's ship was captured and the crew sentenced to death, Read received a stay of execution after she “pled her belly,”
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 26, 2024, 08:46:47 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Rum Rebellion (1808)
The Rum Rebellion of 1808 was the only successful armed takeover of government in the history of Australia. It began when New South Wales governor William Bligh was deposed by George Johnston, commander of the New South Wales Corps. The coup was a retaliation against attempts by successive governors to curb the power of the Corps and interfere with its lucrative rum trade—which gave the rebellion its name. The coup was the second time Bligh had been the victim of a rebellion.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2024, 09:09:44 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Tn4UOAO.png)

Hedges of course are not unique to this place.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 26, 2024, 10:30:35 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
League of Nations Founded (1919)
The League of Nations was an organization for international cooperation, peace, and security established by the Allied Powers at the end of WWI.  Headquartered at Geneva, the League was weakened by the failure of the US, which had not ratified the Treaty of Versailles, to join the confederation.
 Interesting how history is explained in such simple terms, That's a bit of misleading because in real time the realization on this side of the Atlantic soon settled in that the TREATY was anything but fair to the Central Powers. Or even American  positions,Woodrow Wilson wanted to use the L of N to referee disputes amoungst all counties to avoid wars.The treaty forced Germany to disarm, to make territorial concessions,and to pay reparations to Britain/France in staggering amounts.Reparations the British Crown had never paid to ANYONE when they invaded countries near/far like Ireland/India/USA/S,Africa & everyone else for 350 yrs or so prior.

 The Treaty enforced British/French convictions that fostered hyper inflation and carved up huge swaths of German lands giving them to France and Poland then gave Germany the bill for a war started in the Balkans. Austria/Hungary paid very little in a strange twist as Germany came to their aid. The treaty in the US Congress was voted down for many reasons, Britain failing to repay loans to the US Treasury was surely was one of them.Then why should others pay the Crowns King/Lords/Princes off that don't honor their debts? 

 The League and it's Treaty was viewed afar with Imperialistic interests and manipulations that indeed led to WWII because at the very least the Germans would want their lands back .Afterwards when Hitler consolidated power why he assailed the Russian/Jewish people and conviced others to join him was anyone's guess.Considering settling scores with the British/French should have been the primary aim



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2024, 10:44:46 AM
I have pondered before whether "we" would be better off had the Germans won WW One.  I think the US would have been.

France would have lost a bit more territory, probably, and Belgium and Holland would be de facto German colonies (probably).  The L of N would not have worked any better than the UN has.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 26, 2024, 10:56:17 AM
I have pondered before whether "we" would be better off had the Germans won WW One. I think the US would have been.

France would have lost a bit more territory, probably, and Belgium and Holland would be de facto German colonies (probably).  The L of N would not have worked any better than the UN has.
IMO financially perhaps but seeing it was a hedonistic butcher and not simply nationalistc types the Fuhrer would have pressed on. Hitler I'm sure would not have stopped.Now if one of the 43 assinations attemps worked then perhaps things work out for the better but then Stalin is always a fly in the ointment/conversation
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2024, 11:04:50 AM
WW One, not Two, no Hitler.  The German Empire under the Kaiser is strengthened and dominates Europe with only England a weaker counter weight.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 26, 2024, 11:11:27 AM
Oh ya pretty hard to oppose that as even up to including WWII the British would excersize it whims as it saw fit
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2024, 11:22:53 AM
Had the Germans stuck with the Schlieffen Plan and not moved troops to the east at the wrong time, they might have won a quick one.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 26, 2024, 11:44:24 AM
I haven't studied a lot of battles per se more like the history leading up to and it's after math.But one interesting point i had read that 2 years - 1914 and 1918 suposedly had the most casualties. The years '15-'16-'17 though certainly brutal and miserable were trench warfare with very little agency besides the usual mass charges that proved foolish and deadly then everyone returned to Hunkering down again.Many troops succumbed to the elemnets and all sorts illnesses chronic/disabling sickness dysentery,diarrhea,typhus,typhoid and such.Not forgetting the Spanish Flu that could have started on the battle fields themselves and not in Spain

 Point being is when armies were marching they made much easier targets and things ramped up late in the war. Like when doughboys came and they went on more forced marches to flank enemy positions forcing the war to end one way or another
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2024, 12:15:13 PM
The "Spainish Flu" is not called that because it started in Spain, at all.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MikeDeTiger on January 26, 2024, 12:43:40 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Tn4UOAO.png)

Hedges of course are not unique to this place.

Do you know what kind of hedges UGA has?  We have some Boxwood Hedges that decorate our front porch area.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2024, 12:57:43 PM
According to four different horticulturists at the University of Georgia, the shrub is Chinese privet, Ligustrum sinense. I’m not sure where the confusion occurred. My guess is that a non-horticultural writer got confused with English boxwood and their misinformation has been repeated ad infinitum.

These Chinamen be taking over everywhere.

Chinese Privet at Sanford Stadium | Lowndes – Echols Ag News (uga.edu) (https://site.extension.uga.edu/lowndesecholsag/2018/08/chinese-privet-at-sanford-stadium/)

Chinese privet has one claim to fame in Georgia.  The famed hedges in the University of Georgia’s Sanford Stadium are composed of Chinese privet plants.  When Sanford Stadium was built in the 1920’s, the business manager of the athletic association had been impressed with the rose bushes in the Rose Bowl in Pasadena, California and wanted to have something similar in UGA’s new stadium.  Rose bushes were deemed not to be the best choice for the Athens climate, so Chinese privet was planted.  The privet was reportedIy trucked into Athens from Atlanta as the result of a last-minute decision and planted by workers with shovels and flashlights just hours before the stadium’s inaugural game against Yale. I have heard a story that a species other than Chinese privet was originally planted and the Chinese privet later invaded and pushed out the previously planted plants.  I have found no documentation supporting this legend.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 26, 2024, 01:09:07 PM
Everything You Need To Know About Privet (southernliving.com) (https://www.southernliving.com/garden/weeds/privet)

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.95)]The villain is a large, evergreen shrub or small tree called Chinese privet (Ligustrum sinense). [/color]It's worse than kudzu (https://www.southernliving.com/garden/grumpy-gardener/10-awful-weeds-and-how-to-kill-them), according to the scientists tracking its spread. Worse than kudzu. [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.95)]That's because kudzu needs sun to grow. Chinese privet, on the other hand, grows just about anywhere. In sun. In shade. In wet soil. In dry soil. In the city. In the country. All over more than 3 million acres of Southern forests and now spreading as far north as Massachusetts.[/color]

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.95)]It entered the South from its native Asia as an ornamental plant in 1852. Nurseries in towns like Birmingham, Atlanta, and Jackson often ignored its true appellation and sold it simply as "hedge." (A fellow I once did a story on named Dr. Dirt calls it "privy hedge," because he always saw it growing next to the privy. I think it's better thrown into a privy than planted next to it.) Thus, infestations of this botanical nightmare are worse around cities and suburbs than in rural areas. For now.[/color]


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 26, 2024, 02:11:57 PM
The "Spainish Flu" is not called that because it started in Spain, at all.
Ya I think it was labeled such as Spain in such proximity to battle fields is were it was 1st noticed in the civilian population.When many at war war could have succumbed to it but with all the mayhem every death couldn't be confirmed just guessed except battle wounds
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 26, 2024, 03:20:43 PM
The "Spainish Flu" is not called that because it started in Spain, at all.
It is a pretty funny story how it got that name.
Ya I think it was labeled such as Spain in such proximity to battle fields is were it was 1st noticed in the civilian population.When many at war war could have succumbed to it but with all the mayhem every death couldn't be confirmed just guessed except battle wounds
Mostly it was because the warring powers had enacted press censorship so reporting about the Flu was forbidden. 

Spain was neutral and had no censorship so it was reported there.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 27, 2024, 08:54:59 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Siege of Leningrad Is Lifted (1944)
During WWII, German and Finnish forces invaded the Soviet Union and encircled the city of Leningrad—now St. Petersburg—blocking supply lines for 872 days. Sparse food and fuel supplies delivered by barge and sled kept the city's arms factories operating and its 2 million inhabitants barely alive, while 1 million children and sick and elderly people were evacuated. Still, hundreds of thousands died of starvation, disease, and shelling from German artillery.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 27, 2024, 09:21:37 AM
"In the vibrant streets of Manhattan in 1892, there were a group of hot potato vendors who sold a unique variety of potatoes known as "mickeys." These mickeys were not your ordinary potatoes; they had a distinct taste and texture that set them apart from all others.

The hot potato vendors would set up their carts in strategic locations throughout the city, attracting customers with the tantalizing aroma of their freshly cooked mickeys. The mickeys were named after their creator, Mickey, a skilled potato farmer who had perfected the art of growing and cooking these potatoes.

Mickey's mickeys were renowned for their crispy exterior and fluffy interior. People would line up eagerly, waiting for their turn to savor the deliciousness of these potatoes. The vendors would carefully slice the mickeys into thin strips and fry them to perfection, ensuring that each customer received a piping hot batch of crispy goodness.

The mickeys quickly gained popularity among both locals and tourists. The vendors would often share stories about the origins of these unique potatoes, adding to the intrigue and allure. People would come from all corners of the city to taste the mickeys, and the hot potato vendors became an integral part of the bustling street culture of Manhattan.

The hot potato vendors would offer a variety of toppings and seasonings to accompany the mickeys. Some customers preferred them plain, allowing the natural flavors of the potato to shine through. Others would opt for toppings like melted cheese, sour cream, or even a sprinkle of bacon bits, adding an extra layer of indulgence to their potato experience.

As the mickeys gained popularity, the hot potato vendors became local celebrities. Their carts became gathering spots for friends and colleagues, where they would enjoy a quick and satisfying meal while engaging in lively conversations. The vendors would often share stories and jokes, creating a warm and welcoming atmosphere for all who visited.

The hot potato vendors and their mickeys became an integral part of the cultural fabric of Manhattan in 1892. Their presence added a touch of culinary delight to the bustling streets, creating a sense of community and shared enjoyment. The legacy of the hot potato vendors and their mickeys lives on, reminding us of the simple pleasures that can be found in a humble hot potato."


(https://i.imgur.com/RWl2NGf.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2024, 09:36:52 AM
I've visited several American military cemeteries in France and it's astonishing how many deaths occured in 1919.  The flu killed more than the war.  (It probably started in Kansas, maybe.)  I know when COVID first hit some worried it would be akin to 1919.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 27, 2024, 10:25:18 AM
How did a world wide epidemic start in wide open wind swept Kansas? I can see populations centers on the coasts where ships arrive/depart frequently from all over but the middle of Dorothy's sparcely populated paradise?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 27, 2024, 10:33:49 AM
why ask why?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2024, 10:39:53 AM
How did a world wide epidemic start in wide open wind swept Kansas? I can see populations centers on the coasts where ships arrive/depart frequently from all over but the middle of Dorothy's sparcely populated paradise?
Military training camps.


Purple Death: The Great Flu of 1918 - PAHO/WHO | Pan American Health Organization

 (https://www.paho.org/en/who-we-are/history-paho/purple-death-great-flu-1918#:~:text=Despite its name%2C researchers believe,breeding ground for the virus.)
Quote
No matter what they called it, the virus attacked everyone similarly. It started like any other influenza case, with a sore throat, chills and fever. Then came the deadly twist: the virus ravaged its victim's lungs.
(https://www.paho.org/en/who-we-are/history-paho/purple-death-great-flu-1918#:~:text=Despite its name%2C researchers believe,breeding ground for the virus.)Despite its name, researchers believe the Spanish flu most likely originated in the United States. One of the first recorded cases was on March 11, 1918, at Fort Riley in Kansas. Overcrowding and unsanitary conditions created a fertile breeding ground for the virus. Within one week, 522 men had been admitted to the camp hospital suffering from the same severe influenza. Soon after, the army reported similar outbreaks in Virginia, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama and California. Navy ships docked at East Coast ports also reported outbreaks of severe influenza and pneumonia among their crews. The flu seemed to target military personnel and not civilians, so the virus was largely overshadowed by hotter current affairs such as Prohibition, the suffragette movement and the bloody battles in Europe.
 (https://www.paho.org/en/who-we-are/history-paho/purple-death-great-flu-1918#:~:text=Despite its name%2C researchers believe,breeding ground for the virus.)By May 1918, influenza began to subside in the United States. But the ordeal was by no means over. Soldiers at Fort Riley, now ready for battle, incubated the virus during their long, cramped voyage to France. Once they hit French shores, the virus exploded, striking the Allied forces and Central Powers with equal force. The Americans fell ill with "three-day fever" or "purple death." The French caught "purulent bronchitis." The Italians suffered "sand fly fever." German hospitals filled with victims of Blitzkatarrh or "Flanders fever."
 (https://www.paho.org/en/who-we-are/history-paho/purple-death-great-flu-1918#:~:text=Despite its name%2C researchers believe,breeding ground for the virus.)
No matter what they called it, the virus attacked everyone similarly. It started like any other influenza case, with a sore throat, chills and fever. Then came the deadly twist: the virus ravaged its victim's lungs. Sometimes within hours, patients succumbed to complete respiratory failure. Autopsies showed hard, red lungs drenched in fluid. A microscopic look at diseased lung tissue revealed that the alveoli, the lungs' normally air-filled cells, were so full of fluid that victims literally drowned. The slow suffocation began when patients presented with a unique symptom: mahogany spots over their cheekbones. Within hours these patients turned a bluish-black hue indicative of cyanosis, or lack of oxygen. When triaging scores of new patients, nurses often looked at the patients' feet first. Those with black feet were considered beyond help and were carted off to die.

 (https://www.paho.org/en/who-we-are/history-paho/purple-death-great-flu-1918#:~:text=Despite its name%2C researchers believe,breeding ground for the virus.)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2024, 10:46:08 AM
So, in an alternate history, imagine that the German forces in 1914 continued their sweep west of Paris meeting little resistance beyond supply issues.  Paris gets surrounded, much as in 1871, and holds out a bit, and then the French ask for terms.  The Germans probably take a bit more land in the east near Lorraine, African colonies, and ask for "reparations".  The Brits board ships and go home.  Belgium becomes a German proxy state.  Whilhelm II is hailed a hero and remains Kaiser in charge of the dominant state in Europe and probably the world.

No Hitler, no WW 2, no Holocaust.  Germany probably then takes swathes of land from the Poles and Russians for "lebensraum" and Tsar Nicholas teeters in power, but Lenin of course remains in prison.  Austria-Hungary remains as an empire of sorts, maybe grabs some land from Italy.    The Serbian issue is dealt with rather harshly.

Turkey remains the Ottoman Empire, also teetering and weakened, but never engage in the war.  Perhaps both Russia and the Ottomans face revolts and perhaps change governments, it's likely perhaps.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 27, 2024, 10:59:43 AM
The census bureau numbers had 104 million people living in the USA in 1917. Just because it wasn't recorded, Europe had many more packed in per square mile and in close proximity.While that report may be accurate for the USA how could we possibly know the information from all the many various countries overseas? And when they were 1st afflicted? No one could possibly know how everyone who died of a virus or which one was directly responsible
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2024, 12:31:51 PM
The virus had very common symptoms, unlike COVID.  The 50 million figure is of course a rough estimate.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 27, 2024, 12:49:57 PM
The virus had very common symptoms, unlike COVID.  The 50 million figure is of course a rough estimate.
Honestly I think a lot of it is that medical care in general is, well, a century ahead of where it was then. I don't know what the COVID death toll would have been if it happened in 1918, but I feel confident it would be multiples if not necessarily an order of magnitude higher. 

That said, one key difference as I understand is that the Spanish Flu really hit the younger healthier crowd by triggering their healthy and strong immune systems to overreact. That's a confounding factor that I don't know how to account for. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 27, 2024, 03:19:00 PM
Honestly I think a lot of it is that medical care in general is, well, a century ahead of where it was then. I don't know what the COVID death toll would have been if it happened in 1918, but I feel confident it would be multiples if not necessarily an order of magnitude higher.

That said, one key difference as I understand is that the Spanish Flu really hit the younger healthier crowd by triggering their healthy and strong immune systems to overreact. That's a confounding factor that I don't know how to account for.
I read somewhere a theory is that there had been a similar but less severe flu sometime in the early 1890's.

It has been touched on in the discussion in this thread but what @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) and I are talking about here is an oddity about the Spanish Flu. Typically a Flu is most likely to be fatal among the elderly and among infants. In the case of the Spanish Flu fatalities were very high among military aged young adults at it wasn't just because they were in the army and got it more. It had a higher fatality rate per infection among young adults as well. This is extremely unusual because 20-somethings are typically at peak health so they typically have the lowest fatalities.

The theory of a similar Flu in the early 1890's would provide an explanation because everyone over about 30 in 1918 would have been alive in the early 1890's and thus likely to have been exposed to and to have developed antibodies for the earlier Flu while the military aged 20-somethings had been born AFTER the early 1890's so they would not have been exposed to the earlier Flu and thus they would have lacked those antibodies.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 27, 2024, 03:24:54 PM
This is from a Cornhusker YouTube channel so @FearlessF (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=10) should like it.

These popped up in my YouTube feed and I found them interesting:
https://youtu.be/OEEtsbOlCBU?si=pxIZ5bKUvODhu4SG

https://youtu.be/c28x5EY4tLY?si=7uX7loGVdpyDA5CZ

https://youtu.be/Lb-3ks6F1b8?si=Hc7weLj5CIkiIIqs

https://youtu.be/GIDD--o27OI?si=X0bqneXgLBJaBtIt

https://youtu.be/rxK1VaHFMlI?si=HE00J3y63lo5C7WV
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 27, 2024, 03:27:17 PM
yes, there are accounts of UNL shutting down because the student body was affected
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 27, 2024, 03:47:40 PM
The theory of a similar Flu in the early 1890's would provide an explanation because everyone over about 30 in 1918 would have been alive in the early 1890's and thus likely to have been exposed to and to have developed antibodies for the earlier Flu while the military aged 20-somethings had been born AFTER the early 1890's so they would not have been exposed to the earlier Flu and thus they would have lacked those antibodies.
Makes sense exposed earlier and gradually built up resistance,Spock would approve. Back to my earlier point Kansas may have been the jumping off point in this country for the virus because of said barracks. I don't think it hatched here though,me thinks packed ships or trenches as the euros were mixing it up 3 yrs prior to the Dough Boys arriving.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 27, 2024, 03:49:26 PM
And Namby-Pambyism must be stopped in ahr lifetime befoe it kiells sumboddy
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 27, 2024, 03:59:24 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/eMbVizc.jpg)

814 AD after the death of Charlesmagne.  There was no "England" yet by that name.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 27, 2024, 04:17:49 PM
but, it says England right on the map
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 27, 2024, 04:19:00 PM
The English are a race of self made men—which absolves the Almighty of the terrible crime.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 27, 2024, 09:49:52 PM
And Namby-Pambyism must be stopped in ahr lifetime befoe it kiells sumboddy
If it's so namby-pamby, it should be easy to stop.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2024, 07:01:39 AM
UGA celebrates 239th birthday | Facts about the university | 11alive.com (https://www.11alive.com/article/sports/college/georgia-bulldogs/uga-celebrates-239th-birthday/85-28d6a387-42fc-4ace-a27b-a7fd6c059383?fbclid=IwAR0pl3ZNrR90G7bZYlhqHxqfYAKE7HWc1_J83pmspMQ7anlriyT2yb2e5_c)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 28, 2024, 08:21:24 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Horace Walpole Coins the Word "Serendipity" (1754)
Defined as the faculty of making fortunate discoveries by accident, the word "serendipity" was first coined in 1754 by English author Horace Walpole in one of his more than 3,000 letters. In it, he explains that the root of his new word is taken from "The Three Princes of Serendip," a Persian fairytale about princes who "were always making discoveries, by accidents and sagacity, of things which they were not in quest of."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 29, 2024, 09:35:28 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Bear River Massacre (1863)
The Bear River Massacre took place in 1863 when the US Army attacked Shoshone gathered at the confluence of the Bear River and Beaver Creek in what is now Idaho. The incident began when Colonel Patrick Edward Connor led a detachment of approximately 200 US Army soldiers as part of the an expedition against Shoshone Chief Bear Hunter, who had strongly resisted colonization of tribal areas. Some 250 Shoshone were killed in the attack, including Bear Hunter.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 29, 2024, 10:51:39 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/8bqccvZ.png)

Until 1920, children could be mailed through the US Postal service! They had to be under 50 pounds, and stamps were affixed to their clothes. It was cheaper for many people to ship children than to put them on a train, and the children rode on a train (in the mail car) anyway---being watched and fed by mail clerks. The record distance? Over 700 miles from Florida to Virginia for a mere 15 cents in stamps. It really was "A Simpler Time"'. (courtesy of today's Wall St. Journal)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 29, 2024, 11:33:03 PM
Well I'd say that definitely qualifies as weird history.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 30, 2024, 10:25:50 AM
I was searching Youtube for something else entirely, and this came up.  Wasn't sure where to put it, but it's sort-of historical, so why not here?

I've always loved TV theme shows, as a kid of the 70s/80s they're sort of the "fabric of my life."  60s kids can probably say that too, and 90s kids.  But now those decades are sort of isolated in history.  Kids these days don't consume television and pop culture in general, anywhere close to the way I did.  So this sort of thing has become anachronistic, but I still love delving into the history of it all.

It's interesting because of the below TV/cartoon themes, I don't recognize a single one before 1967's Abbott and Costello cartoon, and I know pretty much every single one thereafter.  Anyway, here ya are:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8RHVd5dg_A
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 31, 2024, 08:45:01 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Ham the Chimp Becomes First Hominid Launched into Outer Space (1961)
Ham was chosen from 40 chimpanzee flight candidates at New Mexico's Holloman Air Force Base to be the first hominid launched into outer space. He was named after an acronym for the lab that prepared him for his historic mission—the Holloman Aerospace Medical Center—and was trained to do simple tasks. In 1961, he was launched into space in a Project Mercury capsule from Cape Canaveral, Florida, and splashed down in the Atlantic Ocean a short time later.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 01, 2024, 09:08:07 AM
"Wrong Way" Corrigan

In 1938, American aviator Douglas "Wrong Way" Corrigan made his infamous, unauthorized transatlantic flight from New York to Ireland. He claimed that during a planned flight to California, heavy cloud cover and low light conditions obscured landmarks and led him to misread his compass. In the years leading up to Corrigan's “navigational error,” he had applied several times for permission to make the transoceanic trip, but was always rejected.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 02, 2024, 09:28:39 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Alexander Selkirk Rescued after Four Years Stranded on a Desert Island (1709)
Selkirk was an unruly Scottish sailor who quarreled with his captain and asked to be put ashore on an island in the Pacific. Tired of Selkirk's troublemaking, the captain granted him his wish. Selkirk promptly regretted his decision and chased after the boat, but to no avail. He survived on the desert island by eating shellfish and goats and domesticated feral cats to keep himself safe from rats. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 03, 2024, 09:41:02 AM
Soviet spy Colonel Oleg Penkovsky provided valuable information about the status of the Soviet Union's nuclear weapons to both the CIA and British intelligence. The KGB arrested him on October 22, 1962, in Moscow and most likely executed him shortly after.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 03, 2024, 10:09:13 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Day the Music Died (1959)
During an extensive tour of the midwestern US, American rock-and-roll musician Buddy Holly chartered a small plane to transport him to his next gig. Fellow performers Richie Valens and J.P. Richardson, who was known as "The Big Bopper," filled the remaining seats. Tragically, the plane crashed, killing everyone on board. The event was later called "the day the music died" by Don McLean in his song "American Pie."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 04, 2024, 09:00:48 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Chávez Leads Coup d'État against Venezuelan President Pérez (1992)
In 1989, Venezuelan President Carlos Pérez returned to office amid demonstrations and riots sparked by deteriorating social conditions. Three years later, Lieutenant Colonel Hugo Chávez led an unsuccessful coup against Pérez and was jailed as a result. Pérez escaped another coup attempt later that year, but in 1993 he was removed from office on corruption charges and later imprisoned on charges of embezzlement and misuse of public funds.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 04, 2024, 09:42:43 PM
Namesake of Offutt Field and Offutt Air Force Base - Jarvis Offutt - A graduate of Yale University, Jarvis Offutt entered WWI as a ferry pilot with the British Royal Air Force and flew new airplanes every day from factories to holding fields over the English Channel. He was killed practicing an aggressive maneuver in an S. E. 5 airplane over France in 1918. He was the first WWI casulty from Omaha. He was mistakenly buried in Pennsylvania under the name of Private Walter Heltman until 1923 when his body was exhumed and returned home to Omaha. Offutt field was named for him in 1924 and Offutt Air Force Base was named in 1948. — in Offutt Air Force Base, NE.

(https://i.imgur.com/lCwwO13.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 05, 2024, 07:46:45 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Royal Greenwich Observatory Begins Broadcasting Hourly Time Signals (1924)
The Greenwich Time Signal, popularly known as "the pips," is a series of six short tones broadcast by many BBC radio stations at the end of each hour to mark the precise start of the following hour. Devised by Astronomer Royal Frank Dyson in 1924, the signal consists of six pips that occur on the five seconds leading up to the hour, with the beginning of the sixth pip marking the actual moment when the hour changes.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 06, 2024, 08:51:00 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Munich Air Disaster (1958)
In 1958, a British European Airways airliner carrying the Manchester United soccer team along with a number of staff members, supporters, and journalists crashed on its third attempt to take off from a slush-covered runway at Germany's Munich-Riem airport. Twenty-three of the 44 passengers on board died in the disaster. There was speculation that the club would have to fold, but the threadbare team completed the season
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 06, 2024, 09:10:24 AM
Really sad, you'd think after a couple of failed attempts they'd just call it off and wait for better conditions.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 06, 2024, 09:55:32 AM
3rd time wasn't a charm
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 07, 2024, 08:18:44 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Cripple Creek Miners' Strike (1894)
In 1891, gold was discovered on a cattle ranch in Cripple Creek, Colorado, creating one of the richest camps of a major gold-producing area. Two years later, the Western Federation of Miners (WFM) was established by the merger of several local miners' unions in the Rocky Mountain states. In 1894, the WFM led a five-month strike in Cripple Creek, resulting in a victory for the miners. The strike began when mine owners attempted to lengthen the work day—with no increase in pay
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 07, 2024, 08:36:37 PM
After Joachim Neumann, a civil engineering student, escaped East Berlin by pretending to be a Swiss tourist, he spent the next five months digging a tunnel from West to East Berlin. He ultimately helped his girlfriend and 57 other people escape.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 08, 2024, 07:31:33 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Orangeburg Massacre (1968)
In the Orangeburg massacre, local police in Orangeburg, South Carolina, fired into a crowd of about 200 people protesting segregation, killing three students and injuring 27 others. Although the incident predated the Kent State shootings and Jackson State killings and was the first incident of its kind on a US college campus, the Orangeburg Massacre received relatively little media coverage.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 09, 2024, 07:52:26 AM
Laura Scudder created the first modern bag of potato chips in 1953. Previously, they were sold out of wooden barrels or scooped from behind glass counters.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 10, 2024, 05:09:22 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
HMS Dreadnought Is Launched (1906)
The HMS Dreadnought of the Royal Navy was a battleship that revolutionized naval power when it entered service in 1906. Dreadnought represented such a marked advance in naval technology that its name came to be associated with an entire generation of battleships, the "dreadnoughts," as well as the class of ships named for it, while the generation of ships it made obsolete became known as "pre-dreadnoughts."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2024, 05:37:07 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/1GI3SaL.png)

When I was a kid, I'd draw pictures of ships with guns everywhere not knowing how massive a full gun emplacement has to be.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 11, 2024, 07:41:31 AM
After Joachim Neumann, a civil engineering student, escaped East Berlin by pretending to be a Swiss tourist, he spent the next five months digging a tunnel from West to East Berlin. He ultimately helped his girlfriend and 57 other people escape.
That dewd was determined & persistant and accomplished a hell of a feat - he gets a Yuengling
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 11, 2024, 08:37:43 AM
dude was lonely for his girlfriend

5 months is a LONG time
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 11, 2024, 08:43:15 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Anthracite Coal First Burned as Residential Heating Fuel (1808)
Anthracite is a compact variety of coal that was first burned as a residential heating fuel in the US by Judge Jesse Fell in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania. It differs from wood in that it needs a draft from below. By burning it on an open grate in a fireplace, Fell proved that it could be a viable heating fuel. Fell's experiment took place 18 years after anthracite coal was said to have been discovered in Pennsylvania by hunter Necho Allen.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2024, 10:51:24 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/QvaY1n2.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/8D5sD5C.png)

USS Texas, often termed a "super dreadnaught".
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2024, 11:51:06 AM
5 of history's strangest scientific theories - Big Think (https://bigthink.com/health/strangest-scientific-theories/#Echobox=1707661014)

Some humans will believe rather strange things at times, including today.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 12, 2024, 06:22:43 AM
10 FEBRUARY 1906 - On this day, King Edward VII launched HMS Dreadnought. Built to counter German naval expansion and to match the new ‘two power standing’, where the British fleet should outnumber the combined fleets of two other powers, the Dreadnought was the first to come with a uniform main battery and the first capital ship to be powered by steam turbines.
Work began on HMS Dreadnought in 1905 at Portsmouth Harbour and was launched just a year later at a ceremony broadcast throughout the nation. The Dreadnought became the flagship of the home fleet just a year later.
Despite the excitement surrounding this revolutionary new battleship, Dreadnought did not have a particularly distinguished career. After becoming the only battleship to sink a submarine, it failed to see significant action and was relegated to a coastal defence role in May 1916. By February 1919, Dreadnought had been decommissioned before being sold for scrap.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 12, 2024, 09:43:53 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

National Association for the Advancement of Colored People Founded (1909)
The oldest and largest US civil rights organization, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) was formed as a result of the 1908 race riots in Springfield, Illinois. In 1939, it organized the Legal Defense and Education Fund as its legal arm, which sued for school desegregation in Brown v. Board of Education. During World War II, it pressed for desegregation of the armed forces, which was achieved in 1948.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 13, 2024, 07:56:14 AM
The Hand Cannon

The hand cannon, which dates back to the late 13th century, was the first handheld portable firearm. The origin of the weapon is widely disputed, and a number of groups, including the Arabs, Chinese, Mongols, and Europeans, claim credit for its invention. Though the hand cannon lacked accuracy and was fairly unwieldy, its armor-penetrating capabilities eventually brought the simple weapon to the forefront of European warfare.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 14, 2024, 01:45:09 PM
Some of you may find this interesting... @utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) especially as a fellow gEEk. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF8d72mA41M
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 14, 2024, 02:08:10 PM
Some of you may find this interesting... @utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) especially as a fellow gEEk.


Cliff notes please?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 14, 2024, 02:25:11 PM
Cliff notes please?
The blue LED was a holy grail of electronics but was an AMAZINGLY difficult nut to crack. A Japanese engineer who was working for a Japanese company whose semiconductor business was mostly failing convinced the company president to let him work on it. He started doing so, and slowly chipping away at the big unsolved problems with the blue LED. The president retired and his son took over and kept threatening the engineer to stop work on it, which he ignored. Eventually he solved all the problems--largely following the paths that most in the industry thought were the least possible paths of development, and the rest is history. 

Sort of a story of one man's dogged pursuit of something and succeeding against nearly all odds or expectations. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 14, 2024, 02:26:58 PM
Good stuff. Thanks.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 14, 2024, 04:38:04 PM
Yup, not sure if y'all remember, but red LEDs were by far the most common for indicator lights on electronics panels, for household calculators, and the original digital wristwatches.

I'd heard that story about the blue LED saga but it's been years.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 15, 2024, 12:51:36 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/idr1n7E.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 15, 2024, 10:53:49 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
USS Maine Sinks, Prompting the US to Declare War on Spain (1898)
In January 1898, the USS Maine was sent to protect American interests in Cuba, where an anti-Spanish insurrection was taking place. It sank weeks later, after an onboard explosion. Fueled by the conspiracy theories of American yellow journalism, outrage over the deaths of 260 of the ship's crew members helped push the nation toward the Spanish-American War. Several investigations into the sinking have since taken place, including one that was conducted in 1998.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 16, 2024, 08:44:01 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Ash Wednesday Fires (1983)
In 1983, extreme weather and years of severe drought combined to create one of Australia's worst fire days in a century. Within 12 hours, more than 180 fires—fanned by high winds—were burning, causing widespread destruction across the states of Victoria and South Australia. The fires killed 75 people and left thousands of others injured and homeless. They obliterated entire townships in just minutes. This series of fires was the deadliest bushfire event in Australian history
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 16, 2024, 09:01:16 AM
I was musing (again) about the shotgun formation.  It would be neat to see a chart of time versus plays out of it.  What is it today in P5CFB, 75%?  85%?  It seems odd, now, to see a QB under center (he's not really "under" of course).  What was it 20 years ago?  Perhaps 50%?

On a standard play, what are the disadvantages of SG formation?  The snap is more prone to error I suppose.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 16, 2024, 10:48:13 AM
is the pistol the best of both worlds?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 17, 2024, 09:12:58 AM
In 1894, Russian scientist Marie Mikhaïlovna de Manacééne conducted one of the earliest experiments on extreme sleep deprivation. She found that when she deprived puppies of sleep, they all died within four or five days, despite every effort to keep them alive. The younger the puppy, the more quickly it died.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 17, 2024, 09:14:47 AM
Bricks of Tea

Dried, compressed blocks of tea leaves have been used in Asia as a source of food, component of beverages, and form of currency for centuries. In Ancient China, tea was often mixed with binding agents—including flour, blood, and manure—to increase its durability, thus fortifying the tea brick against the physical demands of its use as currency. Siberian nomads preferred tea-brick currency over metal coins and continued to use the edible money
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Entropy on February 17, 2024, 10:05:14 AM
College football (now) history:

Of the top 100 highest pass rating seasons by QBs, here 's how many that happened pre-2000 and were at P5 schools:
Six.
.
Who are they?
95 Wuerffel @ Florida (178)
99 Hamilton @ GA Tech (175)
94 Collins @ Penn St (173)
96 Wuerffel @ Florida (170)
95 Hoying @ Ohio St (170)
98 Smith @ Oregon (170)
.
Yes, that means no P5 QB has a top-100 passer rating season before 1994, due to the modern high-volume, high-efficiency passing games of the last 20 years.
Wow.
.
For fun, I altered these few seasons to what they would look like, given "best-QB-season-ever" Joe Burrow's 527 attempts in 2019.  The comp, att, yds, TDs, and INTs (counting stats) are altered, while the rate stats (comp %, pass rating) are not.
Just taking a break from creating orders for WN.
.
95 Wuerffel:  340 comp on 527 att for 5,281 yds and 57 TDs - 16 Int (178 pass rating)
99 Hamilton:  350 comp on 527 att for 5,285 yds and 50 TDs - 19 Int (175)
94 Collins:  351 comp on 527 att for 5,347 yds and 42 TDs - 14 Int (173)
96 Wuerffel:  303 comp on 527 att for 5,303 yds and 57 TDs - 19 Int (170)
95 Hoying:  334 comp on 527 att for 5,257 yds and 49 TDs - 19 Int (170)
98 Akili Smith:  310 comp on 527 att for 5,361 yds and 49 TDs - 11 Int (170)
.
The point of this isn't to say any of these player seasons was as good as Burrow's (they weren't, his rating was 202), just that their seasons were insanely good and just as bombastic if given the pass attempts. 
Also shows how the passing game explosion has been TOTAL, when only 6 of the top 100 passer seasons happened pre-2000, and none of the top 37.
I often wonder how much of that is attributed to better/earlier coaching regarding the passing game, more pass-oriented offenses and/or rule changes...  I don't have an answer or a proposal other than I'm sure its some combination of all 3.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 17, 2024, 10:27:20 AM
Ent must be bored as heck this morning
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Entropy on February 17, 2024, 10:30:08 AM
LOL...  Yep.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 17, 2024, 03:35:34 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/V0nV97Y.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 17, 2024, 05:40:29 PM
Bricks of Tea

 In Ancient China, tea was often mixed with binding agents—including flour, blood, and manure—to increase its durability, thus fortifying the tea brick against the physical demands of its use as currency. Siberian nomads preferred tea-brick currency over metal coins and continued to use the edible money
To which the Brits would say - bloody tastes like shit
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 17, 2024, 07:59:43 PM
 tastes like bloody shit
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MarqHusker on February 17, 2024, 10:11:21 PM
there's not one active NFL defensive player in the Top 110 in career INTs.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 17, 2024, 10:38:23 PM
since the retirement of Minnesota Vikings safety Harrison Smith??  with 34
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 17, 2024, 10:39:16 PM
Home plate, Alcatraz Island.

(https://i.imgur.com/oM4MekX.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 17, 2024, 11:13:21 PM
A squadron of Martin Bombers fly over Lake Nokomis (1932)
The Martin Bomber was the first American plane specially built to carry bombs
The planes were visiting from Langley, Virginia
Photo from the Minnesota Historical Society


(https://i.imgur.com/O2KhAah.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2024, 07:19:39 AM
Proof of Concept: Martin’s MB-1 and MB-2 | Lockheed Martin (https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/news/features/history/mb-2.html)

Washington’s initial order of 50 MB-1s was cut back to just 10 by war’s end, forcing Martin to field small orders from the U.S. Post Office and Navy. As it did, engineers began work on a redesign of the MB-1, which sacrificed speed and handling for the ability to carry a heavy bomb load.
Impressed, the Army placed an order for Martin’s more powerful bomber, the MB-2, in June 1920. But critics remained skeptical of the efficacy of aerial bombing, questioning whether an aircraft could drop a bomb large enough to damage naval vessels.
To prove the concept in 1921, air power’s greatest champion, Brig. Gen. William “Billy” Mitchell, selected Martin’s MB-2 as his aircraft of choice.
Anchored off the Virginia coast, four ships, including a huge captured German battleship from World War I that was considered unsinkable, were positioned for an aerial bombardment.
Early runs easily sank the smaller ships in minutes, including a German submarine, but Mitchell offered one more display of the MB-2’s unprecedented ability. Seven MB-2s specially outfitted to carry newly developed 2,000-pound bombs, showered the massive German battleship Ostfriedland, dispatching it to the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean in just 21 minutes and 30 seconds.
In response, Major General Clarence C. Williams, the Army’s chief of ordinance, declared, “A bomb that was fired today will be heard around the world.” It was said that the U. S. Navy admirals watching the test wept after the battleship disappeared beneath the waves. A mere airplane had sunk a capital ship.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 18, 2024, 03:11:16 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/eiTBwxF.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 18, 2024, 04:06:37 PM
everglades man made?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 18, 2024, 09:45:58 PM
Imagine that you are in a bar in the early 1900s — a glass of cold beer in your hand, a spittoon within easy spitting distance on the hardwood floor, and a racy painting of some unclothed beauty hanging on the wall.
You turn at the sound of a woman’s voice singing hymns, and in walks a mature woman in a long, black dress. Standing nearly 6 feet tall, she wields a hatchet and has fire in her spectacled eyes.
And then she starts smashing the place up until she is tackled and hauled away by police.
Starting in 1900, Carrie Nation became a household name for her fanatical (she agreed with that word) opposition to alcohol. The 55-year-old Kansan spent much of early 1902 crusading in Nebraska.
Read "Saloon-Smashing Carrie Nation in Nebraska": https://brnw.ch/21wH5wl (https://brnw.ch/21wH5wl)
📝: David L. Bristow
📷: History Nebraska


(https://i.imgur.com/Vk55eOu.jpg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 18, 2024, 10:04:42 PM
Schwerer Gustav or Hitler’s giant gun was a fearsome weapon of war.

A distinctive feature of artillery of the Second World War were cannons of every increasing size and caliber. One other such weapon was the 914 mm Little David, constructed for the American army. It was intended to be used for attacking Japanese bunkers at the end of WWII. This mortar was the biggest in the world, but it was also never used in combat. The Japanese surrendered before its deployment.

Schwerer Gustav was conceived prior to the beginning of WWII when Hitler demanded its construction as a precursor to the invasion of France. It was to aid the German Army in penetrating the Maginot Line. Its construction missed the invasion of France but it did take part in some actions throughout the war. After years of development and construction, the weapon’s impact on the war was very small in the greater scheme of things. As impressive as the weapon was its fate was far from honorable.


(https://i.imgur.com/MzHnYxI.jpg)

Schwerer Gustav shell was 800 mm or 80 cm in diameter. This baby was a railway gun developed by the Krupp family company who also developed the Big Bertha cannons in WWI.

It was designed in the 1930’s in order to destroy the strongest defensive facilities of their time – the Maginot Line in France. This defensive line was built by the French along the frontier with Germany and consisted of different obstacles, concrete bunkers and fortifications, and weapons installations. The desired specification was that the cannons should be able to destroy 1-meter thick layers of steel or 7-meter thick walls of reinforced concrete. Fate changed its plans when the war began. The Wehrmacht invaded France by passing through Belgium, thus circumventing the Maginot Line and conquering France without the necessity of destroying the defensive line.

According to Wikipedia, Schwerer Gustav weighed in at around 1350 tonnes and was capable of firing 4.8 metric ton heavy projectiles at a distance of 47 km with a muzzle velocity of 820 m/s. Schwerer Gustav damage was incredible! Although not used to fulfill their initial purpose, the Gustav super cannons were transported to the Eastern front and participated in the Fall Barbarossa (Operation Barbarossa in German). During this operation, the cannon was used for the siege of Sevastopol. After that, it was transported near Leningrad (now Saint Petersburg) and started preparation for the siege, but the operation was canceled. The gun was sadly later destroyed in order to avoid its capture.


https://ninhbinh247.com/bich/schwerer-gustav-largest-gun-mankind-has-ever-built/ (https://ninhbinh247.com/bich/schwerer-gustav-largest-gun-mankind-has-ever-built/)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 19, 2024, 09:25:07 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Battle of Iwo Jima Begins (1945)
The island of Iwo Jima is only 8 sq mi (21 sq km) in area, but when US forces attacked the Japanese air base there during WWII, it became the site of one of the most severe campaigns of the war. More than 21,000 Japanese troops and nearly 7,000 Americans died in the clashes. A photograph of US marines raising the American flag over Iwo Jima's Mt. Suribachi has since become one of the most famous images of the war.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 19, 2024, 09:25:28 AM
The Gleiwitz Incident

In 1939, Nazi forces staged an attack on a German radio station and planted the bullet-riddled body of a Polish sympathizer at the scene, reporting the attack as the work of Polish saboteurs. The attack was part of a Nazi propaganda campaign called Operation Himmler, which involved a series of staged incidents intended to create the appearance of Polish aggression against Germany and provide a basis for the subsequent invasion of Poland.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 19, 2024, 09:29:23 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/PtRlMrG.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 19, 2024, 09:30:44 AM
Geebus

the first Walmart????
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 19, 2024, 09:34:49 AM
Title said 1970s, and Walmart didn't do food back then.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 19, 2024, 12:16:40 PM
Starting in 1900, Carrie Nation became a household name for her fanatical (she agreed with that word) opposition to alcohol. The 55-year-old Kansan spent much of early 1902 crusading in Nebraska.
B*tch!!!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 19, 2024, 12:18:18 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/PtRlMrG.png)
FF gonna put it in the Hotties Thread
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Temp430 on February 19, 2024, 12:29:13 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/PtRlMrG.png)
Guessing the mid 1960s.  You didn't see many men in the grocery stores back then so they probably thought they could get away with it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 19, 2024, 05:29:30 PM
I don't remember seeing any women in grocery stores in the 60s sporting curlers. 

All wore proper kerchief on their head to cover the curlers. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 19, 2024, 05:36:50 PM
I don't recall seeing anyone in the grocery stores in the 60s. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 19, 2024, 05:42:47 PM
I don't recall seeing anyone in the grocery stores in the 60s.

Same here.  But I did love to ride on the shelf below the basket of the shopping cart, in the 70s.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2024, 10:35:31 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/ghHrTBi.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 20, 2024, 10:44:00 AM
[img width=274.381 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/ghHrTBi.png[/img]
The Jug!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 20, 2024, 10:44:13 AM
Same here.  But I did love to ride on the shelf below the basket of the shopping cart, in the 70s.
Same!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 20, 2024, 10:56:33 AM
The Jug!
Beat me to it
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 20, 2024, 11:05:41 AM
[img width=274.375 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/ghHrTBi.png[/img][/size][/color]
I was surprised when i had read how much bigger the Mustang was than the Spitfire. The wings alone could hold fuel tanks along with the drop tanks. This explains why in late '43 the 51s could start accomanying the bombing runs into the Reich.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 20, 2024, 11:14:12 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/RIr62jF.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 20, 2024, 11:17:49 AM
Wow too bad John couldn't have kept the weight off but that did have a charm all it's own for his character portrayals. Plains,Trains and Automobiles,Uncle Buck,Stripes - great stuff
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on February 20, 2024, 03:29:08 PM
Wow too bad John couldn't have kept the weight off but that did have a charm all it's own for his character portrayals. Plains,Trains and Automobiles,Uncle Buck,Stripes - great stuff
John Candy's death was kinda weird as I remember it.  It seems like it was about 1994, and although his popularity was maybe on the wane, it seemed like it didn't hardly even make the news.  Nowadays it would be all over the news, reported on constantly, speculated ( Matthew Perry comes to mind).  

With John it was about 3 minutes into the evening newscast, John Candy dies at age 45, our next story is about a new computer feature you may use next decade called "Email".  

I heard he died of a heart attack, but it always seemed a little fishy.  

Same thing with Jim Henson.  Rumored he died of aids/aids related (Jim Henson that is, not JC).  
Still love his movies, hate that he died so young and still in his prime.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 20, 2024, 04:06:39 PM
If you want to get down, down on the ground.. cocaine.

And I do not like Eric Clapton at all. Just so we're clear.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 20, 2024, 06:05:58 PM
John Candy's death was kinda weird as I remember it.  It seems like it was about 1994, and although his popularity was maybe on the wane, it seemed like it didn't hardly even make the news.  Nowadays it would be all over the news, reported on constantly, speculated ( Matthew Perry comes to mind). 

With John it was about 3 minutes into the evening newscast, John Candy dies at age 45, our next story is about a new computer feature you may use next decade called "Email". 

I heard he died of a heart attack, but it always seemed a little fishy. 
To some extent I feel like it's one of those "we saw that coming" sort of things. I doubt I was as involved in 1994 as I was 16 so I had other things going on, but Chris Farley would be a closer example to one that I paid a lot more attention to. When he died it was a "yeah, saw that coming" sort of thing. I'm sure for the older generation, John Belushi might have been similar. 

I do suspect that a lot of comedians have serious demons. The "funny" is a defense mechanism for the real problems and they're just masking it. 

Honestly, when I heard Robin Williams committed suicide... I wasn't that surprised. I think his entire career arc, and the personal stuff (reportedly a lot of drugs) IMHO were masking something much deeper. Although there was some speculation that perhaps there was something health-related involved (i.e. a chronic disease and he offed himself to escape what his near future would look like). 

The non-comedy one that hit me REALLY hard was Anthony Bourdain. But again, you know that there were some deep-seated demons there too. I'm still not over it.

For both, it wasn't necessarily that they did it, but that they did it at a point later in life where it seemed like they had moved past the phase that you think it would have happened and on to other things. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 20, 2024, 09:38:23 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
The Barber of Seville's Disastrous Debut (1816)
In 1816, Italian composer Gioacchino Rossini produced The Barber of Seville, based on the comedy by French playwright Pierre Beaumarchais. Though Rossini created much of the opera's music in just weeks, it resounds with his brilliant arias, ensemble numbers, and famous crescendos. Still, several on-stage accidents and constant jeers from the audience, likely spurred by supporters of one of Rossini's rivals, made its debut in Rome a disaster.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 20, 2024, 10:57:32 PM
John Candy's death was kinda weird as I remember it.. 

I heard he died of a heart attack, but it always seemed a little fishy.
I don't, he had been over weight for quite some time and still smoked and  of course drank.Think it was the Rolling Stone did a big article on him they had mentioned his dad died young also.But he was successful in business bought one of the CFL teams with Wayne Gretzky and they won the CFL Championships.  I was fan and use to watch Second City TV in the early '80s. He did a segment "Dining with LaRue" a smart ass Food Critic who tried to talk his way into restuarants for Dinner. That was pretty good,talked his way into a nice place and there was always salty exchanges between him and the help.Then he got small gigs then STRIPES I think was the 1st big break.

https://youtu.be/rtayB-vIyfY

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 21, 2024, 08:38:53 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

German Socialist Kurt Eisner Is Assassinated (1919)
Eisner was a German journalist and politician. From 1898, he was editor of Vorwärts, the official Social Democratic Party newspaper. He joined the Independent Social Democratic Party in 1917, later becoming its leader. In November 1918, he organized a Socialist revolution that overthrew the monarchy in Bavaria, and he became the first prime minister and minister of foreign affairs of the new Bavarian republic. In February 1919
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2024, 09:14:17 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/bNBd2ga.png)

Terrora Power Plant photo. Probably right after it was finished in 1925. The photo I have seen which has the sign "Terrora Development Georgia Railway & Power Co". Notice the difference between the new masonry & steel power plant and the wooded shed on the hill. See the pipes coming in behind the plant that carries water 1 mile through the mountain from Lake Rabun Dam to run the generators.


Badge will be pleased to note there is a move afoot to remove said dam which would restore Tallulah Falls to its roaring former granduer.  I doubt that happens though, lake front property being what it is.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 21, 2024, 10:39:59 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/5xy6MmJ.png)

USS California (BB-44), affectionately called the "Prune Barge" was the second Tennessee class Super Dreadnought built for the US Navy. She was the last battleship and only Dreadnought built on the West Coast of United States, fittingly, at Mare Island Naval Shipyard in California.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 22, 2024, 08:32:46 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

The "Miracle on Ice" (1980)
Voted the greatest sports moment of the 20th century by Sports Illustrated magazine, the unlikely victory of the US men's hockey team over its Soviet counterpart during the 1980 Olympic Winter Games has been called the "Miracle on Ice." The Soviet team was considered the world's best international hockey team, while the US team was made up of amateur and collegiate players.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 22, 2024, 08:41:34 AM
Anarchist Catalonia

Anarchism, a political theory that favors the abolition of all forms of government, started a profound libertarian revolution throughout Spain. During the Spanish Civil War of the 1930s, Catalonia was established as an anarchist stronghold and much of the region's economy was put under worker control: factories were run through worker committees, agrarian areas became collectivized, and even hotels and restaurants were managed by their workers.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 22, 2024, 08:44:00 AM
[img width=274.381 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/5xy6MmJ.png[/img]
USS California (BB-44), affectionately called the "Prune Barge" was the second Tennessee class Super Dreadnought built for the US Navy. She was the last battleship and only Dreadnought built on the West Coast of United States, fittingly, at Mare Island Naval Shipyard in California.
There was a guy in my hometown who was on this ship on the morning of December 7, 1941. He is the only Pearl Harbor survivor I ever knew personally.

He joined the Navy at 17 in 1941 and had only recently been sent to join the crew of the "Prune Barge" when it was sunk. He spoke to a service club I am in about the experience. After the sinking he swam through oil-covered water to Ford Island.

Next he was assigned to a Cruiser which was sunk at Coral Sea so in the first six months of the war he was sunk twice.

Postwar he ran a stone business in town for many decades. Funniest thing about him was that even as an 80ish year old, grandpa-looking guy he sounded like he was still in the Navy. I'm pretty sure the expression "swore like a sailor" was coined to describe him.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2024, 08:45:53 AM
The Battle of the Coral Sea - ANZAC Day Commemoration Committee (https://anzacday.org.au/ww2-the-battle-of-the-coral-sea)

The US didn't lose any cruisers at Coral Sea, he may have been talking about Guadalcanal, where we lost five in one night.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 22, 2024, 08:54:58 AM
The Battle of the Coral Sea - ANZAC Day Commemoration Committee (https://anzacday.org.au/ww2-the-battle-of-the-coral-sea)

The US didn't lose any cruisers at Coral Sea, he may have been talking about Guadalcanal, where we lost five in one night.
Sorry, you are right.

I knew it was in the South Pacific. 

At one point I found an article about it. Apparently a fairly substantial group of former USS California crewmen had all been assigned en-mass to this Cruiser so he was far from the only one. I wish I could remember the name of the Cruiser. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2024, 08:56:13 AM
Guadalcanal: Naval Battles (navy.mil) (https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/museums/nmusn/explore/photography/wwii/wwii-pacific/wwii-pacific-guadalancanal/naval-battles.html)

This lists 7 major battles, with heavy losses, mostly by the US earlier on.  The Japanese were expert at night fighting and had superior optics.  The US largely threw away their advantage in radar, not understanding how it could help.

In the early morning of August 9, 1942, the Battle of Savo Island began.  A Japanese force had run through the Allied forces guarding Savo Sound.  As a result, one Australian heavy cruiser HMAS Canberra, and three American heavy cruisers, USS Quincy, USS Vincennes, and USS Astoria were sunk, along with damage to other Allied vessels.  As a result of the loss, the sound gained the nickname, "Iron Bottom Sound."  A day later, USS S-44 torpedoed and sank the Japanese cruiser Kako off Kavieng, New Ireland, as she was retiring from the battle.  The Japanese forces were commanded by Vice Admiral Gunichi Mikawa, and the Allied forces were commanded by Rear Admiral Victor Crutchley, RN, and Rear Admiral Richmond K. Turner, USN.   

Image:   NH 50346 (https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/nhhc/our-collections/photography/numerical-list-of-images/nhhc-series/nh-series/NH-50000/NH-50346.html):   Battle of Savo Island, August 9, 1942:  USS Quincy (CA-39), photographed from Japanese cruiser during the battle.   U.S. Naval History and Heritage Command.   

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 22, 2024, 11:20:28 AM
Next he was assigned to a Cruiser which was sunk at Coral Sea so in the first six months of the war he was sunk twice.
Cindy's father - who I never knew was sunk twice in the N.Atlantic while serving in the Merchant Marine

Guadalcanal was brutal 7 months,sea,air,land - hats off to all of them
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 22, 2024, 01:26:44 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ArdMCqD.png)

A Neolithic house in Skara Brae, Orkney Island, Scotland.
The village consisted of ten clustered houses, made of flagstones in earthen dams that provided support for the walls. The houses had stone hearths, beds, and cupboards. A primitive sewer system, with "toilets" and drains in each house, ended up in the ocean. Water was used to flush waste into a drain.
The site was occupied from roughly 3180 BC to about 2500 BC and is Europe's most complete Neolithic village. On average, each house measures 40 square metres and it seems likely that no more than 50 people lived in Skara Brae at any given time.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 22, 2024, 02:24:15 PM
Cindy's father - who I never knew was sunk twice in the N.Atlantic while serving in the Merchant Marine

Guadalcanal was brutal 7 months,sea,air,land - hats off to all of them
Agreed.  

The oddest thing about it all is that through it all, the Japanese kept clinging to their "Decisive Battle" doctrine and waiting for the decisive naval battle which they thought would have to come eventually.  What they failed to realize was that the Guadalcanal campaign WAS the decisive battle.  Midway was important in that it SEVERELY curtailed the offensive punch of the IJN, but the decisive battle was Guadalcanal which turned into war by attrition which Japan couldn't hope to win against an enemy with 2x their population and 10x their industrial capacity.  The US simply bled the Japanese dry.  

After Pearl Harbor and the naval battles of 1942 there was something of a lull at least in terms of major fleet-vs-fleet naval battles and there wasn't another one until the Battle of the Philippine Sea in June of 1944.  In the battles of 1942 the IJN had been a worth adversary to the USN but by 1944 they were laughably outclassed.  They had lost many trained pilots and while the USN fliers took to the sky in brand new planes built AFTER the lessons of 1942, the IJN fliers took to the sky in the same planes they had started the war with 2-1/2 years earlier.  The battle was so lopsided that it has ever since been known as the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 23, 2024, 06:51:21 AM
Agreed. 

The oddest thing about it all is that through it all, the Japanese kept clinging to their "Decisive Battle" doctrine and waiting for the decisive naval battle which they thought would have to come eventually.  What they failed to realize was that the Guadalcanal campaign WAS the decisive battle.  Midway was important in that it SEVERELY curtailed the offensive punch of the IJN, but the decisive battle was Guadalcanal which turned into war by attrition which Japan couldn't hope to win against an enemy with 2x their population and 10x their industrial capacity.  The US simply bled the Japanese dry. 

After Pearl Harbor and the naval battles of 1942 there was something of a lull at least in terms of major fleet-vs-fleet naval battles and there wasn't another one until the Battle of the Philippine Sea in June of 1944.  In the battles of 1942 the IJN had been a worth adversary to the USN but by 1944 they were laughably outclassed.  They had lost many trained pilots
Of the IJN forces lost at Midway the air crews/pilots was catastrophic. Evidently they did not have an efficient system of training those crews enmasse specially after such a large shocking loss. Their superiority thinking at least among the top yes man didn't think it possible and therefor didn't plan on it - save Yamamoto. Their brass in fact hid that defeat from the public and even much of the military.For moral and ego reasons,but that didn't keep the rank and file from talking as later was discovered and discussed in personal notes/journals.They weren't buying the Bushido Code bullshit the Emporer's lackey's were selling as they were there and saw in person what Nimitz's Navy had in store
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2024, 07:38:55 AM
Japan had a major problem with getting fuel.  They couldn't train pilots in part because they had to send what fuel they had to the ships and carriers and China.  The war really started because of petroleum.

Several times, Japanese ships would sortee using unrefined petroleum which is a disaster in the making if they take damage.  Their main objective was the oil fields in SE Asia, but these turned out to be not as productive as they had hoped, and they couldn't refine the oil on site and had to ship it to Japan.  This is why they needed the Phillipines, and why they attacked Pearl Harbor.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2024, 03:48:06 PM
Micajah Clark Dyer - Georgia's 1874 Pioneer Aviator (https://micajahclarkdyer.blogspot.com/?fbclid=IwAR2zxd5V114HMxJdN1gljiDE3EgFmS__spfboRXzFrGJkf4HU6KrjTcV_vE)

Micajah Clark Dyer (1822-1891) was a pioneer aviator. He invented a flying machine for which he received Patent No. 154,654 on Sept. 1, 1874, titled “Apparatus for Navigating the Air.” It was placed in Class 244 for Aeronautics and Astronautics, and in Subclass 28 for Airships with Beating Wings Sustained. At that time, designs for manned flight were just beginning to make the transition from balloons and gliders to powered, heavier-than-air craft. His design is a very early example representing that transition. Clark, as he was called, married the buoyant power of a balloon with navigational controls for flight.
Blairsville, Union County, Georgia, where the invention and flights took place, and its surrounding counties didn’t have newspapers at that time, but the story of Clark’s invention was reported in dozens of newspapers in other towns across the U.S., perhaps also in foreign countries since efforts were underway all over the world at the time to build a machine that could fly.
Several neighbors, including Johnny Wimpey, Jim Lance and Herschel Dyer, witnessed Clark’s flights off Rattlesnake Mountain in the Choestoe Community of Union County in years about 1875 to 1885. He is buried in the Old Choestoe Baptist Church Cemetery, Blairsville, Ga.
A website, [color=var(--outline-link-color-default)]https://micajahclarkdyer.blogspot.com/ (https://micajahclarkdyer.blogspot.com/)[/iurl], has been maintained since 2004 to acquaint people with Clark’s accomplishments.[/font][/size][/color]


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2024, 03:50:07 PM
US154654.pdf (storage.googleapis.com) (https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/50/95/4e/9c4901cc1c7a93/US154654.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0otBQdWGOpLnYaFyStnQltG10O0t4LUzq1Hl-vZcX7aau0uaRCSBrwx3Q)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2024, 04:15:58 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Do8OdFg.png)

Real Mexican cuisine circa 1970.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 24, 2024, 11:05:48 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Battle of Los Angeles (1942)
The "Battle of Los Angeles" is the name given by contemporary sources to the imaginary enemy attack and subsequent anti-aircraft artillery barrage that took place over Los Angeles, California, just months after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Reports of an imminent strike on the city led to the sounding of air raid sirens, the imposition of a blackout, and the firing of 1,400 shells at supposed Japanese aircraft, killing several US civilians.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2024, 11:47:58 AM
I loved that movie.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 24, 2024, 11:51:45 AM
me too

"look, a baby wolf"
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2024, 08:17:04 AM
Sears catalog distribution center/retail store on Ponce De Leon Avenue in Atlanta in 1979
The beginnings of Sears:
Richard Warren Sears was born in 1863 in Stewartville, Minnesota, to a wealthy family which moved to nearby Spring Valley. In 1879, his father died shortly after losing the family fortune in a speculative stock deal. Sears moved across the state to work as a railroad station agent in North Redwood, then Minneapolis.
While he was in North Redwood, a jeweler refused delivery on a shipment of watches. Sears purchased them and sold them at a low price to the station agents, making a profit. He started a mail-order watch business in Minneapolis in 1886, calling it the R.W. Sears Watch Company. That year, he met Alvah Curtis Roebuck, a watch repairman. In 1887, Sears and Roebuck relocated the business to Chicago, and the company published Richard Sears's first mail-order catalog, offering watches, diamonds, and jewelry.
In 1889, Sears sold his business for $100,000 and relocated to Iowa, planning to be a rural banker. He returned to Chicago in 1892 and established a new mail-order firm, again selling watches and jewelry, with Roebuck as his partner, operating as the A. C. Roebuck watch company. On September 16, 1893, they renamed the company Sears, Roebuck, and Co. and began to diversify the product lines offered in their catalogs.
Before the Sears catalog, farmers near small rural towns usually purchased supplies, often at high prices and on credit, from local general stores with narrow selections of goods. Prices were negotiated and relied on the storekeeper's estimate of a customer's creditworthiness. Sears built an opposite business model by offering in their catalogs a larger selection of products at published prices.
By 1894, the Sears catalog had grown to 322 pages, including many new items, such as sewing machines, bicycles, sporting goods and automobiles. By 1895, the company was producing a 532-page catalog. Sales were over $400,000 in 1893 and over $750,000 two years later. By 1896, dolls, stoves, and groceries were added to the catalog.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2024, 08:18:57 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/IuOadgZ.png)+

That building today is the hugely popular "Ponce City Market" after years of neglect.

(https://i.imgur.com/afr8ysY.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2024, 11:09:13 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/8WAv3oP.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 25, 2024, 04:31:18 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/3daVrwK.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 25, 2024, 06:21:04 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
First Pan American Games Are Held in Buenos Aires, Argentina (1951)
The Pan American Games is a multi-sport event open to competitors from all nations of the Western Hemisphere. Patterned after the Olympic Games and sanctioned by the International Olympic Committee, the games are held every four years in the year preceding the Summer Olympic Games. Argentina took home more medals than any other country in the first Pan American Games, however, the US has since become the overall medal leader, with a current total of 3,915.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 26, 2024, 08:25:12 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The February 26 Incident (1936)
The February 26 Incident was an attempted military coup in Japan launched by a radical faction of the Imperial Japanese Army that sought to stamp out corruption and poverty in rural Japan by assassinating certain elder statesmen. Before the coup was suppressed, the rebels managed to briefly occupy the center of Tokyo and kill several leading politicians, including the finance minister. The prime minister, however, survived thanks to a case of mistaken identity.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 27, 2024, 07:14:04 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Carbon-14 Discovered (1940)
Carbon-14 is a radioactive isotope of carbon having a mass number of 14 and a half-life of approximately 5,700 years. It occurs naturally, arising from cosmic rays, and is used as a tracer in studies of metabolism and in radiocarbon dating—a method of determining the age of carbonaceous, once-living material. Carbon-14 was discovered by Martin Kamen and Sam Ruben at the University of California Radiation Laboratory, but its existence had been predicted six years earlier
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2024, 07:49:44 AM
I'm surprised it was that late.  When was mass spec discovered?

In 1886, Eugen Goldstein (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugen_Goldstein) observed rays in gas discharges (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_discharge) under low pressure that traveled away from the anode (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anode) and through channels in a perforated cathode (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathode), opposite to the direction of negatively charged cathode rays (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathode_rays) (which travel from cathode to anode). Goldstein called these positively charged anode rays (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anode_rays) "Kanalstrahlen"; the standard translation of this term into English is "canal rays (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canal_rays)". Wilhelm Wien (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Wien) found that strong electric or magnetic fields deflected the canal rays and, in 1899, constructed a device with perpendicular electric and magnetic fields that separated the positive rays according to their charge-to-mass ratio (Q/m). Wien found that the charge-to-mass ratio depended on the nature of the gas in the discharge tube. English scientist J. J. Thomson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._J._Thomson) later improved on the work of Wien by reducing the pressure to create the mass spectrograph.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/db/Alpha_calutron_tank.jpg/170px-Alpha_calutron_tank.jpg) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Alpha_calutron_tank.jpg)Calutron (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calutron) mass spectrometers were used in the Manhattan Project (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Project) for uranium enrichment.
The word spectrograph had become part of the international scientific vocabulary (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_scientific_vocabulary) by 1884.[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_spectrometry#cite_note-2)[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_spectrometry#cite_note-3) Early spectrometry devices that measured the mass-to-charge ratio of ions were called mass spectrographs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrograph) which consisted of instruments that recorded a spectrum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum) of mass values on a photographic plate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photographic_plate).[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_spectrometry#cite_note-a804629h-4)[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_spectrometry#cite_note-5) A mass spectroscope is similar to a mass spectrograph except that the beam of ions is directed onto a phosphor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphor) screen.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_spectrometry#cite_note-6) A mass spectroscope configuration was used in early instruments when it was desired that the effects of adjustments be quickly observed. Once the instrument was properly adjusted, a photographic plate was inserted and exposed. The term mass spectroscope continued to be used even though the direct illumination of a phosphor screen was replaced by indirect measurements with an oscilloscope (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscilloscope).[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_spectrometry#cite_note-Siri_1947-7) The use of the term mass spectroscopy is now discouraged due to the possibility of confusion with light spectroscopy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectroscopy).[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_spectrometry#cite_note-isbn0-9660813-2-3-1)[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_spectrometry#cite_note-Price_1991-8) Mass spectrometry is often abbreviated as mass-spec or simply as MS.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_spectrometry#cite_note-isbn0-9660813-2-3-1)


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2024, 07:55:59 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/IsNDo08.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2024, 07:58:57 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/nBXbIEb.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 27, 2024, 09:31:35 AM
On a small farm just outside of LeClaire, Iowa near the Mississippi River, William F. "Buffalo Bill" Cody was born to Isaac and Mary Ann Bonsell Laycock.  Buffalo Bill grew up to become one of the most recognized names in the world due to his Wild West show.

(https://i.imgur.com/pq9J4vo.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2024, 01:12:32 PM
On This Day - February 26, 1949 – Boeing B-50A Superfortress, Air Force serial number 46-010, named Lucky Lady II, flew from Carswell Air Force Base, Fort Worth, Texas, and with inflight refueling, circumnavigated the Earth non-stop, landing back at Carswell after 94 hours, 1 minute. The bomber had traveled 23,452 miles (37,742 kilometers).
Lucky Lady II was the backup aircraft for this flight, but became primary when the first B-50, Global Queen, had to abort with engine problems. It was a standard production B-50A-5-BO (originally designated B-29D) with the exception of an additional fuel tank mounted in its bomb bay.
The aircraft commander was Captain James G. Gallagher, with 1st Lieutenant Arthur M. Neal as second pilot. Captain James H. Morris was the copilot. In addition to the three pilots, the flight was double-crewed, with each man being relieved at 4-to-6 hour intervals, with a total crew of 14.
Four inflight refuelings were required using the looped hose method. Two KB-29M tankers of the 43d Air Refueling Squadron were placed at air bases along the Lucky Lady II‘s route, at the Azores, Saudi Arabia, the Philippine Islands and Hawaiian Islands. The KB-29 flew above the B-50 and lowered a cable and drogue. This was captured by equipment on the bomber and then reeled in, bringing along with it a refueling hose. The hose was attached to the B-50’s refueling manifold and then fuel was transferred from the tanker to the bomber’s tanks by gravity flow. Each refueling occurred during daylight, but weather made several transfers difficult. One of the two tankers from Clark Field in The Philippines, 45-21705, crashed in bad weather when returning to base, killing the entire 9-man crew.
On their arrival at Carswell on 2 March (Photo), the crew of Lucky Lady II was met by Secretary of the Air Force W. Stuart Symington, Jr., General Hoyt S. Vandenberg, Chief of Staff of the Air Force, General Roger M. Ramey, commanding 8th Air Force, and Lieutenant General Curtis E. LeMay, Strategic Air Command. Each member of the crew was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross. They also were awarded the Mackay Trophy for the most meritorious flight of the year.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2024, 01:43:13 PM
"Movies And The Real Old West"
The fast draw did not exist
Revolvers were not worn low slung
Revolvers were generally not fired from the hip
Fanning a revolver was unheard of
The buscadero holster wasn’t designed until the 1920s
Gunslinger and gunfighter are movie terms
Face downs in the street only happened a couple times
More men were killed with knives in barrooms than by firearms
Most cowboys on the range did not carry revolvers, most carried
rifles in saddle boots
Indians preferred to fight at night
Cavalry troopers did not wear yellow bandanas
There was no such military command as Forward Ho!
Most women wore dresses not jeans and rode horses side saddle
Chaps were only worn when herding cattle
There was no such title as Town Sheriff, Sherriff’s enforced laws in the entire county, towns were policed by Marshals
Indians did not attack a wagon train circle by riding in circles around it
Most western forts did not have walls
Army chevron’s were not worn on shirts
One piece red long underwear did not exist until after 1900
Mexican Bandidos did not wear bandoleers
String bowties are 20th century
Panel front shirts were not worn with one top corner unbuttoned and hanging down
Stage coaches did not carry a strongbox full of gold on every run, most holdups were made to rob the passengers
Most men did not carry revolvers all day, every day
The Winchester lever action rifle was “The gun that won the west” not the Colt revolver


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 27, 2024, 11:50:34 PM
Indians did not attack a wagon train circle by riding in circles around it

:smiley_confused1:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 28, 2024, 07:24:25 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/nBXbIEb.png)
The 1st thing comes to my mind when opening a beer
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 28, 2024, 07:25:10 AM
Indians did not attack a wagon train circle by riding in circles around it

:smiley_confused1:
Bazing Saddles says it happened
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 28, 2024, 07:29:34 AM
"Movies And The Real Old West"
The fast draw did not exist
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/wild-bill-hickok-fights-first-western-showdown
In what may be the first true western showdown, Wild Bill Hickok shoots Dave Tutt dead in the market square of Springfield, Missouri.

Hollywood movies and dime novels notwithstanding, the classic western showdown—also called a walkdown—happened only rarely in the American West. Rather than coolly confronting each other on a dusty street in a deadly game of quick draw, most men began shooting at each other in drunken brawls or spontaneous arguments. Ambushes and cowardly attacks were far more common than noble showdowns.

But when gunfights did occur, the cause for each varied. Some were simply the result of the heat of the moment, while others were longstanding feuds, or between bandits and lawmen.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 28, 2024, 07:34:06 AM
Anyone who has fired a handgun at a target nows how hard it is to hit a human sized target at any distance, forget about a fast draw.  One can certainly improve over time, holding the pistol with two hands properly and bracing one's legs.  Anyone drawing fast is more likely to spray bullets in the general direction and hit something other than the target versus someone cool who aims properly and fires once, depending on range.

I think the movie imagery does something to keep murders down in urban areas because the shooters spray and pray, and end up wounding innocents more often than targets.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 28, 2024, 07:43:41 AM
Not stating it's not hard - it happened though,hardly the chivalrous affair portrayed
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 28, 2024, 08:25:11 AM
I imagine it evolved from gentlemanly duels and was better to be accurate than quick
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 28, 2024, 08:25:29 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Swedish Prime Minister Olof Palme Is Assassinated (1986)
Palme served as prime minister of Sweden from 1969 to 1976 and from 1982 to 1986. In 1971, he led Sweden's rejection of a bid for membership in the European Community. A pacifist, he criticized US policy in the Vietnam War, creating a diplomatic rift that ended in 1974. Palme also opposed the nuclear arms race and South African apartheid. He was assassinated in 1986, and his murder remains unsolved. What did US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger reportedly say about his relationship with Palme?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 29, 2024, 08:07:17 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/FMv91mw.png)

Weird seeing those electric buses back then, and now they are expanding the streetcar line, which has been a complete bust so far.  These urban planners seem to fall in love with things that are not really practicable.  Now, maybe the streetcar thing takes off, I don't know that, the new terminus is much more of a destination than the old one at least.

And heavy rail is just too expensive to build any more.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 29, 2024, 08:20:07 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/wKyTfSI.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 29, 2024, 09:41:31 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/z6Y4y5i.png)

Latest Z06 engine.

(https://i.imgur.com/aEX7ocx.png)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 29, 2024, 09:57:31 AM
[img width=274.381 height=389]https://i.imgur.com/z6Y4y5i.png[/img]

Latest Z06 engine.

[img width=274.381 height=281]https://i.imgur.com/aEX7ocx.png[/img]
The evolution if Corvette engines from the pathetic Blue Flame Special Straight Six of 1953 to that monstrosity of today.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 29, 2024, 10:11:18 AM
Zora Duntov.

Zora Arkus-Duntov - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zora_Arkus-Duntov)

Arkus-Duntov joined General Motors (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors) in 1953 after seeing the Motorama (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorama) Corvette (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette) on display in New York City (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City). He found the car visually superb, but was disappointed with what was underneath. He wrote Chevrolet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet) chief engineer Ed Cole (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Cole) that it would be a pleasure to work on such a beautiful car; he also included a technical paper which proposed an analytical method of determining a car's top speed. Chevrolet was so impressed, engineer Maurice Olley (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Maurice_Olley&action=edit&redlink=1) invited him to come to Detroit. On May 1, 1953, Arkus-Duntov started at Chevrolet as an assistant staff engineer.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zora_Arkus-Duntov#cite_note-duntovbook-1)

Shortly after going to work for Chevrolet, Arkus-Duntov set the tone for what he was about to accomplish in a memo to his bosses. The document, "Thoughts Pertaining to Youth, Hot Rodders and Chevrolet", laid out Duntov's views on overcoming Ford's lead in use by customizers and racers, and how to increase both the acceptance and the likelihood of success of the Chevrolet V8 in this market.[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zora_Arkus-Duntov#cite_note-memo-7) In 1957 Arkus-Duntov became Director of High Performance Vehicles at Chevrolet.[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zora_Arkus-Duntov#cite_note-gmheritage-8) After helping to introduce the small-block V8 engine to the Corvette in 1955, providing the car with much-needed power, he set about showcasing the engine by ascending Pike's Peak in 1956 in a pre-production car (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-production_car) (a 1956 Bel Air (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Bel_Air) 4-door hardtop), setting a stock car record. He took a Corvette to Daytona Beach the same year and hit a record-setting 150 mph (240 km/h) over the flying mile.[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] He also developed the famous Duntov high-lift camshaft and helped bring fuel injection to the Corvette in 1957.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zora_Arkus-Duntov#cite_note-duntovbook-1) He is credited with introducing the first mass-produced American car with four-wheel disc brakes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_brake).[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zora_Arkus-Duntov#cite_note-nytobit-9)

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/1963_Corvette_Sting_Ray_Coupe.jpg/220px-1963_Corvette_Sting_Ray_Coupe.jpg) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1963_Corvette_Sting_Ray_Coupe.jpg)1963 Split-window Corvette.

A conflict arose between Duntov and Chevrolet chief designer Bill Mitchell (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Mitchell_(automobile_designer)) over the design of the new C2 Corvette "Sting Ray" model.[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zora_Arkus-Duntov#cite_note-ludvigsenbook-4): 360, 361  Mitchell designed the car with a long hood and a raised windsplit that ran the length of the roof and continued down the back on a pillar that bisected the rear window into right and left halves. Duntov felt that the elongated hood interfered with the driver's view of the road ahead, and the rear pillar obscured the driver's view rearwards. The split rear window was widely criticized, and a one-piece backlite was put in its place the next year.[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zora_Arkus-Duntov#cite_note-ludvigsenbook-4): 384, 385 


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 29, 2024, 10:38:42 AM
He also developed the famous Duntov high-lift camshaft and helped bring fuel injection to the Corvette in 1957.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zora_Arkus-Duntov#cite_note-duntovbook-1) He is credited with introducing the first mass-produced American car with four-wheel disc brakes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_brake).[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zora_Arkus-Duntov#cite_note-nytobit-9)
I talked with a guy who owned one. The story was that it was AMAZING . . .

When it worked.

The backstory is that fuel injection had been around for decades and by WWII it was common in military aircraft. Fuel injection was vital for military aircraft because carburetors tend not to work upside down or under certain g-force conditions related to maneuvers such as climbing or diving rapidly.

Getting it from high performance aircraft with dedicated mechanics spending whatever time it took to keep it functional into a car for everyday use was a substantial challenge.

Apart from the maintenance issues, car engines are a LOT smaller. The early Chevy V8's were 265 Cid (Cubic Inches Displacement) or 4.34L. By comparison the Double Wasp that powered the Corsair and Hellcat was 2,800 Cid or 46L and the Merlin that powered the Spitfire and Mustang was 1,650 Cid or 27L.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 29, 2024, 10:45:01 AM
It was also of course mechanical fuel injection which got complex in a hurry.  I can't imagine working on one of those Double Wasp type engines, and they did fail in flight fairly often, more often than would be tolerated in any civilian application.

"My" Cessna 152 (or 172) had an over sized 4 cylinced "boxer" engine with magnetos and carb heat and manual fuel air ratio and a primer for starting.  I chuckle about that now.  When they started making new Cessnas, they went to fuel injection, but had to detune the engine as a result as anything with 200 hp or more requires additional certification for the pilots for "complex engines".

Fuel injection MAY be the single most important modern feature of current engines making them so powerful (and less polluting).
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Temp430 on February 29, 2024, 10:49:18 AM
I talked with a guy who owned one. The story was that it was AMAZING . . .

When it worked.

The backstory is that fuel injection had been around for decades and by WWII it was common in military aircraft. Fuel injection was vital for military aircraft because carburetors tend not to work upside down or under certain g-force conditions related to maneuvers such as climbing or diving rapidly.

Getting it from high performance aircraft with dedicated mechanics spending whatever time it took to keep it functional into a car for everyday use was a substantial challenge.

Apart from the maintenance issues, car engines are a LOT smaller. The early Chevy V8's were 265 Cid (Cubic Inches Displacement) or 4.34L. By comparison the Double Wasp that powered the Corsair and Hellcat was 2,800 Cid or 46L and the Merlin that powered the Spitfire and Mustang was 1,650 Cid or 27L.

My dad was a Staff Sargent and aircraft mechanic in the Marine 4th Air Wing in WW2.  He loved the Corsair.  One of his many interesting stories was how they routinely would dump brand new aircraft engines, among other things, into the lagoon on Peleliu since they had no need, or space, and couldn't send them back.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 29, 2024, 11:01:57 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/wKyTfSI.png)
Ya nolan juiced 😜
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on February 29, 2024, 11:25:27 AM
It was also of course mechanical fuel injection which got complex in a hurry.  I can't imagine working on one of those Double Wasp type engines, and they did fail in flight fairly often, more often than would be tolerated in any civilian application.
Agreed, those are insanely complex.  For those unaware, the Double Wasp engine that @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) is referring to here is the Pratt and Whitney R-2800 Double Wasp.  It was a twin-row, 18-cylinder radial. 

Radial means that instead of the pistons being in a single line (like an inline four common in smaller cars today) or in two lines in a "V" shape like the classic American V8's, the cylinders were arranged radially out from the center crankshaft.  

Twin-row means that there were two rows of cylinders so for this 18-cylinder engine each row had nine cylinders.  

What is truly amazing is that the US needed and managed to successfully train and deploy literally thousands of guys like @Temp430 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=131) 's dad to maintain these insanely complex engines all over the world.  

The US built a little better than 125 THOUSAND of the R-2800's and used them to power the Corsairs, Hellcats, Marauders (2x per plane), and Thunderbolts among others.   

They also built the even larger Wright R-3350 Duplex-Cyclone which was a similar twin-row, 18-cylinder radial of 3,350 Cid or nearly 55L.  
My dad was a Staff Sargent and aircraft mechanic in the Marine 4th Air Wing in WW2.  He loved the Corsair.  One of his many interesting stories was how they routinely would dump brand new aircraft engines, among other things, into the lagoon on Peleliu since they had no need, or space, and couldn't send them back.
That is awesome and thanks to him for his service.  

The story of dumping unneeded surplus engines (which cost a fortune to build)* into a lagoon really explains why the US won.  Omar Bradley said "amateurs study strategy, professionals study logistics."  

I once saw a WWII German Soldier interviewed and he stated that the point at which he realized that the Reich was finished was during the Battle of the Bulge.  Despite the location of the Battle of the Bulge being right on the German border and only a few hundred miles from the German Industrial Heartland his army was out of or running out of nearly everything.  Then, when he advanced into formerly American-held territory he saw MOUNTAINS of surplus equipment, parts, weapons, ammunition, etc just like the surplus engines chucked into a lagoon by your dad and his buddies because they had more than they needed.  The German Soldier pointed out that this was thousands of miles and an ocean away from the American Industrial heartland and yet the Americans had a seemingly limitless supply of everything they needed.  

*Just to be clear, this is not AT ALL a criticism of your dad and his buddies.  The story you shared perfectly illustrates American logistical prowess that the Axis (and for that matter the other allied) powers simply couldn't imagine let alone duplicate.  Everybody else was dealing with shortages of more-or-less everything while the biggest logistical problem your dad had was that he had too many aircraft engines to store so they had to chuck them in a lagoon to make room for stuff that they did need.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 29, 2024, 11:44:17 AM
I've mentioned before my Dad was a staff sergeant radar operator on a B-24.  He told me the night the plane went down, the first rolled out on their regular aircraft and during runup, one of the superchargers "ran away" (I infer the waste gate stuck closed, or something).  With four engines, things happened fairly often, so they taxied back and got another aircraft.

He remembers taking off as usual and says they had gained altitude enough for him to roll down the radar antenna (which replaced the belly turret).  I sent for the official records a while back and they claim the B-24 went into the ocean just after takeoff, my Dad says that couldn't have happened, they had to have been miles out at least.  He had a tiny compartment just forward of the bombay, and he thinks when they hit the ocean, the radar dome hit first and tore the plane open and he floated out.  He said there was no way he could have gotten out otherwise.  Three survived, the copilot went through the wind screen and the flight engineer apparently went through after him.  The other seven perished.

I met the copilot many years back, he had a flattened forehead from the experience.  They floated around in the ocean however long and finally were picked up by a US destroyer.  My Dad and the copilot were badly injured, the flight engineer, a made named "Isadore Lamica", kept them afloat.  Izzy, as he was called, didn't make it home, he went down on a later flight.

Pacific Wrecks - 868th Bombardment Squadron (868th BS) "Snooper Squadron" (https://pacificwrecks.com/units/usaaf/13af/868bs.html)

Nightstalkers – The Wright Project and the 868th Bomb Squadron in World War II (nightstalkers868.com) (https://nightstalkers868.com/)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 29, 2024, 11:50:02 AM
My Dad told me the radar was fairly sophisticated.  He had a "G scope" that was slaved to the bomb released.  They'd line up over a Japanese ship (at night) trying to get it lengthwise, and when the G-scope line intercepted with the middle line, bombs would be released one two three in an interval he would set.

They carried the usual crew with gunners for reasons no one understood, they couldn't see at night of course.  Once the gunners begged the pilot to over fly some Japanese air base so they did, once.  They told him the sky lit up with so much flack it scared them to death, a lumbering B-24 at probably 500 feet altitude even at night, the Japs opened up.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 29, 2024, 08:50:49 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First African American wins Academy Award (1940)
Hattie McDaniel was an African-American singer-songwriter, comedienne, stage actress, radio performer, and television star. She appeared in over 300 films and is best known for her role as Mammy in the iconic 1939 film Gone with the Wind, a performance that earned her the first Academy Award ever presented to an African American. McDaniel's Oscar was later lost.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2024, 09:25:21 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/LWaEX3u.png)

Heaviest armor of any WW 2 tank (Tiger 2), 150 mm.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 01, 2024, 11:25:05 AM
No wonder they ran out of fuel
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 01, 2024, 11:45:52 AM
Agreed, those are insanely complex.  For those unaware, the Double Wasp engine that @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) is referring to here is the Pratt and Whitney R-2800 Double Wasp.  It was a twin-row, 18-cylinder radial.


I once saw a WWII German Soldier interviewed and he stated that the point at which he realized that the Reich was finished was during the Battle of the Bulge.  Despite the location of the Battle of the Bulge being right on the German border and only a few hundred miles from the German Industrial Heartland his army was out of or running out of nearly everything.  Then, when he advanced into formerly American-held territory he saw MOUNTAINS of surplus equipment, parts, weapons, ammunition, etc just like the surplus engines chucked into a lagoon by your dad and his buddies because they had more than they needed.  The German Soldier pointed out that this was thousands of miles and an ocean away from the American Industrial heartland and yet the Americans had a seemingly limitless supply of everything they needed. 

*Just to be clear, this is not AT ALL a criticism of your dad and his buddies.  The story you shared perfectly illustrates American logistical prowess that the Axis (and for that matter the other allied) powers simply couldn't imagine let alone duplicate.  Everybody else was dealing with shortages of more-or-less everything while the biggest logistical problem your dad had was that he had too many aircraft engines to store so they had to chuck them in a lagoon to make room for stuff that they did need. 
Good post one of the reasons the P&Ws were so well liked(that I've read) was many were air cooled and could take more hits and make it back than the water cooled birds. The materiel logistics/provisons of this country in WWII were simply unbelievable.I've more than a few times crossed swords with some Brits in YT comment sections about this.They seemingly routinely play lend-lease down when in fact they didn't see a bill for half of the materiel'. I know at the end of the Pacific war many planes were pushed off of aircraft carries by the UK. They were a late arrival in that theatre and got in in long after it was only a matter of time with/with out them. Many planes were sold to the Aussies for pennies on the dollar as the cost of bringing everything back was  superseded the cost of scrap or ability to sell them for a fair exchange.Many Jeeps/trucks were brought back
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 01, 2024, 11:48:35 AM
No wonder they ran out of fuel
There is also this, global petroleum production in 1940 in millions of Metric Tons:
Country Crude Oil
USA 182.657 Mt
USSR 29.700 Mt
Venezuela 27.443 Mt
Iran 10.426 Mt
Indonesia 7.939 Mt
Mexico 6.721 Mt
Romania 5.764 Mt
Columbia 3.636 Mt
Iraq 3.438 Mt
Argentina 2.871 Mt
Trinidad 2.844 Mt
Peru 1.776 Mt
Burma 1.088 Mt
Canada 1.082 Mt
Egypt 0.929 Mt
Not only did the Germans not have much oil domestically, but none of their Allies or areas the conquered had much either. Even the Romanian field at Polesti which was so important that it was literally the most well defended air-space in the world and the US lost a lot of planes and aircrew trying to destroy it only produced a small fraction of what the US produced.
(https://i.imgur.com/LWaEX3u.png)
Heaviest armor of any WW 2 tank (Tiger 2), 150 mm.
I love the dry British humor. I saw an interview with a British WWII tanker who encountered one of these. He was in a Sherman which was quicker and could train it's gun faster so they got off the first two shots. His explanation was:
"We fired a shot at him and it bounced right off so we fired another shot at him and that one bounced right off too. Then he fired a shot at us and that one didn't bounce right off."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2024, 11:51:25 AM
They had a tradeoff between a V engine and a rotary.  The V-12 were more streamlined of course, but had to be liquid cooled.  The rotarys were air cooled, but the back cylinders didn't always get cooled to the "degree" necessary.  The one of the first rotary was a 7 cylinder Gnome engine designed in France and many WW 1 aircraft used some version of that made by Gnome-Rhone, even the German planes.  There is a tricky reason why rotarys must have an odd number of cylinders per bank.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2024, 11:54:14 AM
There were so few Tiger 2s out there that a Sherman would very rarely encounter one for real, but the Panther at a distance looks like the Tiger 2, and the Panzer IV looks like a Tiger 1 at a distance.  

The Germans and Russians were in a race to produce ever larger tanks more than the western allies who mostly relied on TDs for tank combat.

The Panther was a pretty good tank, mechanical and fuel issues of course, good main gun.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2024, 12:49:18 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/iEzFUtt.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 01, 2024, 05:37:38 PM
Good post one of the reasons the P&Ws were so well liked(that I've read) was many were air cooled and could take more hits and make it back than the water cooled birds. The materiel logistics/provisons of this country in WWII were simply unbelievable.I've more than a few times crossed swords with some Brits in YT comment sections about this.They seemingly routinely play lend-lease down when in fact they didn't see a bill for half of the materiel'. I know at the end of the Pacific war many planes were pushed off of aircraft carries by the UK. They were a late arrival in that theatre and got in in long after it was only a matter of time with/with out them. Many planes were sold to the Aussies for pennies on the dollar as the cost of bringing everything back was  superseded the cost of scrap or ability to sell them for a fair exchange.Many Jeeps/trucks were brought back
One of the things that has always fascinated me about WWII is the massive scale of things and how much that increased in just a few years.  

The British Pacific Fleet that you referred to here, at it's height consisted of:
I read once that it was the most powerful non-nuclear fleet that the British ever put to sea and that list is incredibly impressive . . . by early-WWII standards.  In December of 1941 that fleet would have been the world's most powerful surpassing the USN, the IJN and even the RN of that time.  In 1942, 1943, and even in 1944 (at least early in the year) that fleet would have been a massive presence in the Pacific.  

By late 1944 and into 1945 when the war in Europe was winding down to the point that the British could release all of that power from Atlantic duties and send it to the Pacific, the USN had grown to such a gargantuan size that Admiral King didn't actually want it.  He argued that providing logistical support to the Brits (who were unaccustomed to USN underway replenishment practices since they had operated near bases in the Atlantic and Mediterranean) would be more trouble than it was worth.  

The US didn't actually turn down the British Fleet (Nimitz wanted the help and Roosevelt overruled King) but the fact that it was even considered is illustrative of just how large the USN was by that time.  It was so large that 21 Aircraft Carriers joining wasn't really a big deal.  

Give this much to the British:
Their carriers carried less planes because they had armored decks which took up a lot of weight thus limiting the number of planes they could carry but those armored decks were VASTLY better against the late war Kamikaze attacks than the unarmored USN carrier decks.  The USN never actually lost a fleet carrier to a Kamikaze but a number of USN Fleet carriers were so badly damaged by Kamikaze attacks that they had to be taken out of service and sent home for months of repairs.  Several British Carriers were hit by Kamikazes and they were MUCH better able to brush off the damage.  Their armored decks kept the explosions topside thus limiting the damage to personnel and equipment on deck.  

In my experience the Brits are not nearly as averse to giving credit to Lend Lease as the Communists and Communist apologists.  They'll shout at the top of their lungs that "80% of the German Army was on the Eastern Front in 1944" but never acknowledge that:

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 01, 2024, 06:13:57 PM
They had a tradeoff between a V engine and a rotary.  The V-12 were more streamlined of course, but had to be liquid cooled.  The rotarys were air cooled, but the back cylinders didn't always get cooled to the "degree" necessary. 
I know they had a LOT of trouble with that on the 18 cylinder twin-row B29 engines. It was even worse on the four-row, 28 cylinder radial engines for the postwar B36. 

The B36 had six of the aforementioned four-row 28 cylinder radials plus four jet engines. The slogan was supposed to be "six turning, four burning." Engine heat and fire problems were so bad that the crews changed it to "Two turning, two burning, two smoking, two choking, and two unaccounted for."
There is a tricky reason why rotarys must have an odd number of cylinders per bank.
I knew they had an odd number of cylinders per row/bank but I didn't know why so I looked it up after reading this comment. It makes sense now, every other piston fires so you need an odd number to switch from odds to evens each revolution. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2024, 06:20:11 PM
Gnome N-9 > National Museum of the United States Air Force™ > Display (af.mil) (https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/197466/gnome-n-9/)

The Gnome was a rotary type, meaning the engine and propeller were bolted together, and both rotated around a fixed shaft. Air passing over the hot cylinders cooled the spinning engine. Gnome Monosoupape (single valve) engines like the one on display had one valve per cylinder acting as both air inlet and exhaust. Fuel was mixed with air not in a carburetor, but in the hollow central shaft, where the fuel-air mixture entered each cylinder at its base.

Gnome engines were reliable and powerful for their weight, but had certain drawbacks. First, the gyroscopic effect of the heavy, spinning engine made quick left turns easy, but hard right turns were difficult. Second, the motor used a large amount of fuel and lubricating castor oil, and some of the unburned oil was thrown from the spinning engine, making life unpleasant for pilot a few feet behind it. A cowling around the engine directed most of this under the aircraft, but thick, greasy fumes and oil inevitably coated the pilot. Castor oil was used because it burns cleanly, but pilots joked about its well-known laxative effect.

Gnome engines were built with great craftsmanship, and all their parts were finely machined to very close tolerances. The cutaway 165-hp Gnome N-9 on display shows how the design worked. The engine had no throttle so pilots used a "blip switch" on the control stick to adjust power when landing -- turning the engine on and off to maintain the right speed -- though some adjustment was possible by restricting air and fuel flow. Clerget and Bentley rotaries featured a selector switch for using 9, 7, 5 or 3 cylinders to adjust power.

Gnomes powered many aircraft, including Nieuports, Moranes and Sopwiths. Rotary engines, however, fell out of favor after the war. More fuel-efficient in-line and non-rotating radial engines did not have the rotaries' gyroscopic problem, they produced less drag, and their fixed cylinders could be made larger and more powerful than rotating ones. Faster, heavier aircraft with greater range had advanced beyond the rotary's capabilities.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2024, 06:24:07 PM
[color=var(--black-300)][color=var(--theme-body-font-color, var(--black-600))]102
[/font][/color][/font][/size][/color]
[color=var(--black-300)] (https://aviation.stackexchange.com/posts/47193/timeline)[/font][/size][/color]

An odd number of cylinders is required by the combination of the single-crank radial design, the four-stroke (Otto) work cycle, and the desire to keep the power strokes evenly spaced in time.
To keep the design simple and lightweight, a single-bank radial airplane engine has one crank, which means that the pistons must reach the top of their travel in rotation order. But the four-stroke cycle requires that a piston must reach the top of its travel twice for each power stroke. The only way to promote evenly timed power strokes is to fire every other cylinder in rotation order.
With an even number of cylinders this would require a hesitation or skip in the firing sequence on every rotation as the engine switched between the odd and even cylinders. With an odd number of cylinders the timing is quite naturally smooth. For example, the firing order of an eight-cylinder radial would be

Code: [Select]
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
*   *   *   *     *   *   *   * *   *   *   *     *   *   *   *

while the firing order of a nine-cylinder radial is

Code: [Select]
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
*   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *

If you could watch a radial airplane engine in slow motion you would see that when a cylinder is in its compression stroke, the cylinders on either side of it are in their exhaust strokes, and when a cylinder is beginning its power stroke, the cylinders on either side of it are near to beginning their intake strokes.
Two-stroke radial engines do not need to have an odd number of cylinders.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2024, 06:30:27 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/yhmBXF8.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2024, 06:33:44 PM
I was musing, a fighter aircraft from 1940 would still be workable in 1945.  A ship would as well.  A rifle.  Artillery. But a 1940 tank?  

None of them would be more than marginally effective by 1945.  I know the Panzer IVD with a short barrelled 75mm was used in 1940, that would be close perhaps.  Most of the German tanks in 1940 were Panzer IIs with a 20 mm main gun not much use really against any kind of armor.  The Panzer III had a 37 mm gun.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2024, 10:14:18 PM
In 1904 Ty Cobb, encouraged by a Royston teammate who had had a failed professional tryout, contacted teams in the newly formed South Atlantic (Sally) League. He received a response from the Augusta (Georgia) Tourists, inviting Cobb to spring training provided the boy pay his own expenses, and offering him a contract for $50 per month, contingent on Cobb making the team. For young Tyrus, this was a dream come true, a chance to play professional baseball. His father tried to talk him out of the decision, but finally relented, telling his son, “You’ve chosen. So be it, son. Go get it out of your system, and let us hear from you.”
Cobb was released just two games into his stay with Augusta, but immediately received an offer from a semipro team in Anniston, Alabama. Cobb called his father, who advised him “Go for it. And I want to tell you one other thing — don’t come home a failure.” These words were to have a great impact in shaping the life and baseball career of Ty Cobb. Cobb played well with Anniston, and by August he received a telegram from Augusta asking him to rejoin the team.
The year 1905 was to be a fateful one for Cobb. He reported to Augusta for spring training, and got the chance to play in two exhibition games against the Detroit Tigers. The Tigers trained in Augusta in return for an option to purchase one player from the Augusta team at a later date. Cobb made an impression on the Tigers with his talent and his aggressive, even reckless, style of play.
Augusta got off to a poor start, and Cobb’s play was uninspiring. In July, however, veteran George Leidy replaced Andy Roth as manager, and took Cobb under his wing. He told young Ty that he was wasting his talent, and schooled him in the finer points of the game. Cobb became the league’s best hitter, and Detroit and other teams began to take notice. The tutelage of Leidy was the turning point in Cobb’s career.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2024, 10:20:29 PM
Who Was Ty Cobb? The History We Know That’s Wrong - Imprimis (hillsdale.edu) (https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/who-was-ty-cobb-the-history-we-know-thats-wrong/)

But what about Cobb’s 19th-century Southern roots? How could someone born in Georgia in 1886 not be a racist? What I found—and again, not because I am the Babe Ruth of researchers, but because I actually did some research—is that Ty Cobb was descended from a long line of abolitionists. His great-grandfather was a minister who preached against slavery and was run out of town for it. His grandfather refused to fight in the Confederate army because of the slavery issue. And his father was an educator and state senator who spoke up for his black constituents and is known to have once broken up a lynch mob.

Cobb himself was never asked about segregation until 1952, when the Texas League was integrating, and Sporting News asked him what he thought. “The Negro should be accepted wholeheartedly, and not grudgingly,” he said. “The Negro has the right to play professional baseball and whose [sic] to say he has not?” By that time he had attended many Negro league games, sometimes throwing out the first ball and often sitting in the dugout with the players. He is quoted as saying that Willie Mays was the only modern-day player he’d pay to see and that Roy Campanella was the ballplayer that reminded him most of himself.
Cobb was, like the rest of us, a highly imperfect human being. He was too quick to take offense and too intolerant of those who didn’t strive for excellence with the over-the-top zeal that he did. He did not suffer fools gladly, and he thought too many others fools. He was the first baseball celebrity, and he did not always handle well the responsibilities that came with that. And yes, he once went into the stands and repeatedly punched a man who had been heckling him for more than a year, and who turned out to have less than the full complement of fingers—hence the story of him attacking a handicapped fan. This is a mark against him. But was he a racist and an embarrassment to the game? Far from it.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2024, 10:34:11 PM
To be clear, this story is apocryphal. If this was said at all, it may not even have been Cobb who said it (some versions attribute the quote to Lefty O’Doul, speaking about Cobb).

But anyway, as the story goes, in the year before his death, Cobb was asked by a reporter how he would fare in the modern game.

“I’d hit about .300,” Cobb said.
The reporter was aghast. Ty Cobb? Only hitting .300?
“You’ve got to remember,” Cobb added, “I’m 73 years old!”


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 02, 2024, 07:40:04 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Charles the Good Is Assassinated (1127)
As count of Flanders from 1119 until his death, Charles the Good strove to help the poor, distributing bread in times of famine and working to ensure that grain was sold to them at a fair price. Angered by this policy, one influential family had Charles hacked to death while in church. The popular count's brutal murder provoked public outrage, and though he was not formally beatified until the 19th century, he was almost immediately regarded popularly as a martyr.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2024, 08:32:32 AM
Cy Young never won a Cy Young.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2024, 09:14:56 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/he8zD3g.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 03, 2024, 09:18:14 AM
Pandora

According to Greek mythology, Zeus ordered that the first woman, Pandora, be created as a punishment to humankind for Prometheus's theft of fire. The gods endowed her with every charm, but also with curiosity and deceit. Zeus sent her to marry Prometheus's brother, Epimetheus, and gave her a box that he forbade her to open. Despite Prometheus's warnings, Epimetheus allowed Pandora to open the box, letting out all the evils that have since afflicted man.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2024, 11:25:31 AM
Steve Balboni to reporter after hitting a grand slam: “Hitting your first grand slam is a thrill. I’ll always remember this.”
Reporter: “You hit a grand slam two years ago, Steve.”
Balboni: “Oh yeah. I guess I forgot about that one.”

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2024, 01:42:15 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/B3Ht3A0.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 03, 2024, 08:58:19 PM
Pratt & Whitney R-2800 Double Wasp engines are prepared for shipment at the Ford Aircraft Engine Plant in Dearborn, Michigan - 1942
The Pratt & Whitney R-2800 Double Wasp was a twin-row, 18-cylinder, air-cooled radial aircraft engine with a displacement of 2,800 cubic inches.
Designed in 1937, 125,334 total variants of the R-2800 were manufactured between 1939 - 1960.
Aircraft that used the R-2800 included;
Douglas A-26 Invader
Douglas DC-6
Fairchild C-82 Packet
Fairchild C-123 Provider
Grumman F6F Hellcat
Grumman F7F Tigercat
Grumman F8F Bearcat
Martin B-26 Marauder
Martin PBM-5 Mariner
Northrop P-61 Black Widow
Republic P-47 Thunderbolt
Vought F4U Corsair
And many more…
LIFE Magazine Archives - Gordon Coster Photographer


(https://i.imgur.com/6V9Ops6.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 06:55:37 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/pdZvWXb.png)

he largest warship to ever transit the Great Lakes. The 8-inch gun Heavy Cruiser USS Macon came through the Seaway in 1959 to officially open the new waterway. She is seen here in the Eisenhower Lock. Note the missing radar antenna, removed in Boston to allow passage through the Seaway 's lift bridges due to her high air draft. The ship had all sorts of problems rubbing bottom and bumping into walls on her way through due to the large size, powerful engines, and the open ocean design of her hull.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2024, 08:21:36 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Chicago Is Incorporated as a City (1837)
In 1803, the US Army built Fort Dearborn on a tract of land along the Chicago River that had been acquired from the Native Americans after the Northwest Indian War. Over time, the settlement that grew up around the fort was incorporated as a city. A major port and the commercial, financial, industrial, and cultural center of the Midwest, Chicago is now the third-largest city in the US. Its name is derived from the Native American word shikaakwa, meaning "onion field,"
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2024, 08:22:07 AM
ARTICLE OF THE DAY: 

The White Rose Society
During the early 1940s, a group of German university students and their philosophy professor founded the White Rose resistance movement, secretly drafting, printing, and distributing leaflets urging Germans, particularly the intelligentsia, to rise up against the Nazi regime. In February 1943, 2 prominent White Rose members, Sophie and Hans Scholl, were arrested. The rest of the group's founding members were soon captured, and all 7 were sentenced to death.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 08:56:52 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Eqm87GG.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: longhorn320 on March 04, 2024, 09:11:07 AM
Cy Young never won a Cy Young.
Oscar never won an Oscar

well except for Hammerstein that is
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 04, 2024, 10:19:51 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Eqm87GG.png)
B36 wing?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 10:45:00 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/bPulQT3.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 10:52:31 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/uTaQXUd.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 04, 2024, 10:55:45 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/bPulQT3.png)
Glowing reviews no doubt
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 04, 2024, 10:57:55 AM
Oscar never won an Oscar
but he did meet Meyer
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 11:05:45 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/45IYkis.png)

B-36 wings above, and flight engineer and his controls here.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 11:12:47 AM
The sweet potato is North Carolina’s state vegetable and we harvest a LOT of them.  North Carolina grows nearly 60% of all United States sweet potatoes, more than any other state.  By the way, sweet potatoes are a great source of Vitamins A & C, beta carotene, fiber and potassium.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2024, 11:17:54 AM
still too many carbs
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2024, 11:23:15 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/uTaQXUd.png)
Interesting... Is that actually a real sign, that still stands today, at the Eastern terminus of I-40? 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2024, 11:24:38 AM
could be a clever photoshop from the Barstow chamber of commerce 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 11:31:24 AM
It's a real sign, but keeps getting stolen.  This is the other end.

(https://i.imgur.com/qiZBRsZ.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2024, 11:35:44 AM
It's a real sign, but keeps getting stolen.  This is the other end.

(https://i.imgur.com/qiZBRsZ.png)
Got it. I've driven I-40 from the other end at least once, but didn't notice that at the time. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2024, 11:36:20 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/mIAGB16.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2024, 11:37:00 AM
We did have this one near us, for a short while :57:

https://abc7.com/street-sign-bobs-house-bob-directions/2968806/

(https://i.imgur.com/bXARkhv.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 04, 2024, 11:43:51 AM
Got it. I've driven I-40 from the other end at least once, but didn't notice that at the time.
I did, and it was depressing!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 04, 2024, 11:53:56 AM
Got it. I've driven I-40 from the other end at least once, but didn't notice that at the time.
Here it is screen capture from Google Maps street view. The sign is at the I15/I40 split, right as or right before I40-W starts to curve North (away) from I40-E to merge into I15.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 04, 2024, 11:55:51 AM
Here it is screen capture from Google Maps street view. The sign is at the I15/I40 split, right as or right before I40-W starts to curve North (away) from I40-E to merge into I15.
Yep. BTW I-15 curves North(ish) to head to Vegas, whereas I-40 stays East...

I'm pretty sure I've only taken I-40 once, to go to Laughlin NV. Which considering how much I hate Vegas, and Laughlin is like Vegas without the glitz and glamour, is why I've never gone that way since lol...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 04, 2024, 12:12:58 PM
Yep. BTW I-15 curves North(ish) to head to Vegas, whereas I-40 stays East...

I'm pretty sure I've only taken I-40 once, to go to Laughlin NV. Which considering how much I hate Vegas, and Laughlin is like Vegas without the glitz and glamour, is why I've never gone that way since lol...
I've been by there more times than you then but the first time is the most interesting, it was at about 11pm on January 1, 1997:

January 1, 1997 started EARLY. My parents, brother, and I drove to California for the Ohio State vs Arizona State Rose Bowl. Well, dad, brother, and I were there for the game. Mom's price to green light the trip was that she wanted to see the Rose Parade so we woke up in our hotel at 0-dark-thirty, packed everything in the van, and drove to the RoseBowl where we parked on the adjacent golf course at about dawn then headed up the hill to Colorado Boulevard to get a view of the Parade.

After the Parade we walked back down the hill with the other 100k people heading to the game and waited for the Stadium to open.

Ohio State beat ASU and Jake "the Snake" in a very exciting game and after the game we headed toward home. We headed West out of Pasadena then North on I15 to Barstow where we saw that sign on our way onto I40 East.

We spent the night near Needles, California then drove straight through from Needles back to Ohio (I40E->I44E->I70E->I71N).
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2024, 04:04:36 PM
From Facebook..............

These three enormous flak towers guarded a German Marine base near Angers, France. Each tower would have been armed with several large caliber and small caliber anti-aircraft guns, including the much feared 88 mm Flak gun.

(https://i.imgur.com/d564Tzv.png)

Comment from someone on facebook..........

These look like bog-standard French "châteaux d'eau" (water towers). Not a single destroyed flak gun is visible and given the open terrain with a full 360 degree field of fire there would be no need to go to the trouble of hoisting an 88 up there.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2024, 07:56:02 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Winston Churchill's "Iron Curtain" Speech (1946)
The phrase "Iron Curtain" refers to the political, military, and ideological barrier erected by the USSR after WWII to seal itself and its dependent eastern European allies off from contact with the West. Churchill's use of the phrase in a 1946 speech at a US college, though initially perceived as antagonistic, popularized the term. The Iron Curtain largely ceased to exist in 1990, when the communists of eastern Europe finally abandoned one-party rule.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 08:02:56 AM
The Fearsome Nazi Tower That Held Off the Allies in Berlin (popularmechanics.com) (https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a21240241/the-fearsome-nazi-tower-that-held-off-the-allies-in-berlin/)

These things were massive.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 08:54:49 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/t7gFaCo.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 05, 2024, 09:59:25 AM
The Fearsome Nazi Tower That Held Off the Allies in Berlin (popularmechanics.com) (https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a21240241/the-fearsome-nazi-tower-that-held-off-the-allies-in-berlin/)

These things were massive.
One of those they turned into apartments or some such.It would take an ocscene amount of ordinance to destroy them. I did find this

https://virtualglobetrotting.com/map/flakturm-iv-g-tower-wwii-german-flak-tower-converted-into-apartments/
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 12:59:36 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/74tDea0.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 05, 2024, 01:26:02 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/CZXTWUL.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 06, 2024, 04:37:23 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/pATSzaT.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 06, 2024, 04:40:17 PM
No doubt a lot of battles are unknown, not on wiki, but this was interesting to me.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 06, 2024, 05:39:18 PM
Damn European types hopefully they don't migrate anywhere
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 08, 2024, 08:39:28 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

US President Ronald Reagan Dubs the USSR an "Evil Empire" (1983)
Reagan's strong anti-communist position, evident from the time he began his presidential career, was highlighted in a 1983 speech in which he referred to the USSR as an "evil empire." The phrase became common in Cold War rhetoric and has since entered popular culture, taking on a nearly iconic status. It has been used in a variety of contexts to refer to entities as varied as Wal-Mart and the British Empire.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 08, 2024, 09:13:12 AM
William J. Guarnere Sr. (Wild Bill) passed away 10 yrs ago Today
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 09, 2024, 08:30:39 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

WWII: Bombing of Tokyo Kills 100,000 (1945)
During WWII, Allied bombing devastated half of Tokyo, destroyed or damaged many famous landmarks, and ruined nearly all of the city's industrial plants. In the US firebombing raid that began on March 9, 1945, nearly 2,000 tons of incendiary bombs were dropped on the Japanese capital, killing roughly 100,000 people and destroying about 16 mi² (41 km²) of the city—making it the most destructive conventional bombing raid in history.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 09, 2024, 08:52:26 AM
If there was any justice tomorrow's THIS DAY IN HISTORY would read. Citizens hang Hirohito
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 09, 2024, 09:15:58 AM
perhaps the same for Ismail Haniyeh
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 09, 2024, 10:41:54 PM
American servicemen load paintings and sculptures looted by Hermann Göring, discovered in a cave near Berchtesgaden in May, 1945.

(https://i.imgur.com/fwfCzOC.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2024, 05:00:20 AM
I toured Tokyo today. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2024, 05:51:25 AM
Walked over 9 miles today.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 10, 2024, 07:44:45 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Pink Floyd Releases Dark Side of the Moon (1973)
Dark Side of the Moon is a concept album by the rock group Pink Floyd that explores the nature of the human experience through themes such as money, war, mental illness, and death. It is considered by many fans to be the band's magnum opus. It is one of the best-selling albums of all time—it is estimated that one in every 14 people in the US under the age of 50 owns or owned a copy of this album.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 10, 2024, 07:45:17 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

James Earl Ray (1928)
Ray was a petty criminal who escaped from prison in 1967, while serving a sentence for armed robbery. On April 4, 1968, he is believed to have shot Martin Luther King, Jr., as King was emerging from his Memphis motel room. Ray then fled to Canada, England, Portugal, and back to England, where he was apprehended. He pled guilty and was sentenced to 99 years in prison but later recanted his confession.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 11, 2024, 10:38:23 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
The Great Blizzard of '88 Begins (1888)
The Great Blizzard of '88 was one of the most severe blizzards in US history. Snowfalls of 40 to 50 in (102 to 127 cm) fell in parts of New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts, and Connecticut, and snowdrifts exceeded 50 ft (15 m) in some places. Railroads were shut down, and people were confined to their houses for up to a week. More than 400 people died from the storm and the ensuing cold, including 200 in New York City alone.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 11, 2024, 10:44:23 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

WWII: Bombing of Tokyo Kills 100,000 (1945)
During WWII, Allied bombing devastated half of Tokyo, destroyed or damaged many famous landmarks, and ruined nearly all of the city's industrial plants. In the US firebombing raid that began on March 9, 1945, nearly 2,000 tons of incendiary bombs were dropped on the Japanese capital, killing roughly 100,000 people and destroying about 16 mi² (41 km²) of the city—making it the most destructive conventional bombing raid in history.
I'm not 100% positive of this, but I think that the qualifier "conventional" is unnecessary in this sentence because the firebombing of Tokyo was more destructive than either of the atomic bombings.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 12, 2024, 05:15:09 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

California's St. Francis Dam Fails (1928)
Constructed between 1924 and 1926, the St. Francis Dam was a concrete gravity-arch dam designed to act as a reservoir to store water for the Los Angeles Aqueduct. In 1928, the dam catastrophically failed, and the resulting flood of 12 billion US gallons (45 billion liters) of water killed more than 450 people. The dam's collapse was the worst American civil engineering failure of the 20th century and remains the second-greatest loss of life disaster in California's history
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 12, 2024, 09:25:52 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/uQIIhuz.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 13, 2024, 07:42:36 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: p

The Phoenix Lights: Aliens or Air Force? (1997)
In 1997, thousands of people reported a series of optical phenomena—since known as the Phoenix Lights—taking place in the skies over the US states of Arizona and Nevada. The sightings consisted of two events: a triangular formation of lights observed passing overhead and a series of stationary lights seen in the Phoenix area. Although the US Air Force identified the second group of lights as flares, many believe the first set of lights were those of a UFO
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 14, 2024, 09:04:15 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Nazis "Liquidate" Poland's Kraków Ghetto (1943)
In 1941, the Nazis ordered all remaining Jews in the Polish city of Kraków—15,000 of an original 68,000—to move into a walled-off district of the city, thereafter known as the Kraków ghetto. The systematic deportation of these Jews to concentration camps began in May 1942. On March 13 and 14, 1943, the deportation of 8,000 Jews to a nearby camp and the killing of 2,000 in the streets completed the Nazi's "liquidation" of the ghetto.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 14, 2024, 02:39:49 PM
Charles Lindberg, a recent college drop out from the University of Wisconsin enrolled in the Nebraska Aircraft Corporation Flight School in Lincoln in February, 1922 where we took his first ride in a two-seat Lincoln Standard "Tourabout" biplane trainer piloted by Otto Timm.

(https://i.imgur.com/qRca5Ji.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 15, 2024, 08:52:10 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First Commercial Internet Domain Name Registered (1985)
A domain name is an address of a computer, organization, or other entity on a network, such as the Internet, that follows TCP/IP communications protocol. Domain names must be unique on the Internet and must be assigned by a registrar accredited by the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers. They typically include the type and name of an organization and identify the specific host server at the address. The first commercial Internet domain name was registered in 1985.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on March 15, 2024, 10:28:48 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

First Commercial Internet Domain Name Registered (1985)
A domain name is an address of a computer, organization, or other entity on a network, such as the Internet, that follows TCP/IP communications protocol. Domain names must be unique on the Internet and must be assigned by a registrar accredited by the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers. They typically include the type and name of an organization and identify the specific host server at the address. The first commercial Internet domain name was registered in 1985.


Didn't know that.  I dug a little deeper:


Symbolics.com


Answer: The first domain name registered was Symbolics.com. It was registered March 15, 1985, to Symbolics Inc., a computer systems company in Cambridge, Mass.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 15, 2024, 10:41:29 AM
probably not still alive
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 15, 2024, 10:56:49 AM
Didn't know that.  I dug a little deeper:


Symbolics.com


Answer: The first domain name registered was Symbolics.com. It was registered March 15, 1985, to Symbolics Inc., a computer systems company in Cambridge, Mass.
Thanks.

When I read @FearlessF (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=10) 's post I wondered what it was.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2024, 10:18:43 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
My Lai Massacre (1968)
During the Vietnam War, US troops searching for Viet Cong fighters massacred hundreds of civilians from the Vietnamese hamlet of My Lai. Though they had not located any insurgents in My Lai, the soldiers opened fire on the villagers, killing men, women, and children. The incident was initially covered up by army officers. When it was revealed in the press nearly two years later, it divided the US public and increased pressure to end the war.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 17, 2024, 09:49:26 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Synthesis of Californium Announced (1950)
The sixth transuranium element to be synthesized, californium is an artificially produced, radioactive metallic chemical element. A member of the actinide series of elements, it has isotopes with half-lives ranging from about 40 seconds to 900 years. One isotope, californium-252, is used as a neutron source in nuclear reactors. Which four scientists first produced californium in a cyclotron at the University of California at Berkeley?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 17, 2024, 10:09:00 AM
A 20P7 armored bell at Musée D-Day Omaha. With walls 250-295 mm thick, weighing 56 tons and with an internal diameter of 2.25 metres (7 ft 5 in), the 20P7 provided six equally-spaced protected firing positions for a machine gun around its circumference, though standard practice saw only two of these positions being used at a time. It was constructed from extremely thick chrome molybdenum steel, and would have been partially buried in a concrete base

(https://i.imgur.com/Y0BAgqk.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 18, 2024, 08:02:04 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

UK Recognizes British Sign Language as Official Language (2003)
Making use of space and involving movement of the hands, body, face, and head, British Sign Language (BSL) is the preferred language of deaf people in the UK and those who communicate with them, such as relatives and interpreters. BSL has regional and local dialects, and some signs go in and out of fashion or evolve over time, just like spoken words.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 19, 2024, 08:41:39 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
René Robert Cavelier, Sieur de La Salle, Murdered by His Own Men (1687)
La Salle was a celebrated French explorer of North America. He began exploring the Great Lakes in 1679, setting up forts in the region and organizing a federation of native American tribes to fight the Iroquois. Given power to colonize the region between Lake Michigan and the Gulf of Mexico, he set sail in 1684 for the mouth of the Mississippi River, which he was ultimately unable to locate. Beset by losses of men and ships, La Salle was killed by mutineers
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 20, 2024, 07:53:51 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Dutch East India Company Established (1602)
Chartered by the parliament of the Netherlands to expand trade and assure close ties between the government and its colonial enterprises in Asia, the Dutch East India Company was the world's first multinational corporation. It had quasi-governmental powers, including the ability to wage war, and wrested control of the Spice Islands trade from Portugal. However, it was plagued by corruption and insolvency in the late 18th century and was dissolved.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 21, 2024, 08:24:36 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Bahá'í Calendar Begins (1844)
Founded in Iran in the mid-19th century by Baha' Ullah, Bahá'í is a religion based on the unity of all faiths. Adherents pray daily, fast 19 days a year, and follow a strict ethical code. Because of the religion's 19 initial disciples, the number 19 is considered sacred, and the Bahá'í calendar, which began in 1844, consists of 19 months of 19 days, with four additional "intercalary" days. Today is the first day of the 168th year of the Bahá'í Era.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 21, 2024, 03:44:18 PM
Before his senior year of high school, Wilt Chamberlain took a summer job at Kutsher's Country Club, a resort in the Catskills. By day, he was making $2 an hour. At night, he played on Kutsher's basketball team, coached by athletic director, Red Auerbach.

(https://i.imgur.com/0QitOEY.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 22, 2024, 07:43:32 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Clint Malarchuk's Carotid Artery Slashed during Ice Hockey Game (1989)
Malarchuk is a retired Canadian professional ice hockey goaltender who played in the National Hockey League from 1981 to 1992. He is perhaps best known for sustaining a life-threatening injury during a 1989 game, when two players collided in front of his goal, and one of the players' skate blades slashed Malarchuk's internal carotid artery. Remarkably, Malarchuk was able to skate off the ice despite bleeding heavily. He survived because his team's athletic trainer, was a former army medic
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 22, 2024, 02:08:51 PM
The Jumo 222 was the most powerful German aircraft engine at the end of the war. The Jumo 222 was a new development that began in 1937 at the Otto Mader factory in Dessau and was run under the technical management of Ferdinand Brandner. This in-line radial engine was intended for long-range fighter aircraft, initially had a design output of 2000 hp and was to be increased to 3000 hp as development progressed. https://planehistoria.com/junkers-ju-288-the-bomber-the.../

(https://i.imgur.com/N7VC0Iv.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2024, 08:37:16 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Patrick Henry: "Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death!" (1775)
Henry was an American Revolutionary leader who gained a reputation as a skillful orator. A member of the Virginia House of Burgesses, he delivered his famous speech in defense of liberty to the Virginia Convention in 1775, concluding with the words "Give me liberty or give me death!" The speech is credited with having swung the balance in convincing the assembly to pass a resolution to send Virginia troops to the Revolutionary War.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2024, 09:13:22 AM
Truth is a stranger to the fiction Dept. A photo that set in motion a lot of problems for the couple. Johnny Cash was married to an African American woman in the 1950s.

They would say she was Italian ( which in itself could mean she has African blood, but suspected it was more than just that ) but the Klan down south gave them the side eye protesting him and his shows.

"That was a perilous time to be an interracial couple, so give props to them both."

Turns out the ” man in black “ was a true rebel and lived life on his terms, with respect! She ended up bowing out of the marriage ( after ten years and children, Roseanne Cash being one ), as the stress of it got to be too much for her. Even now in the movies, they don’t portray her as she was…


(https://i.imgur.com/OV0yQS1.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2024, 08:42:19 AM
In the 1970s, the Oakland Athletics introduced "ball girls" (young girls who would sit in foul territory to retrieve baseballs grounded foul by batters).
(https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/t30/1/16/26be.png)Debbie Sivyer, was one of the first ones hired. She was paid five dollars an hour and would use the money to buy ingredients for what would become her famous cookies. She instituted a "milk-and-cookies" break for the umpires.
(https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/t30/1/16/26be.png)In 1976, at the age of 19, Sivyer married Randall Fields, taking the name she would soon use for her business, “Mrs. Fields”.
(https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/t30/1/16/26be.png)Mrs. Fields began her business in 1977 in Palo Alto, California, and at its height franchised 650 retail bakeries in the United States and over 80 in 11 different countries.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2024, 10:33:04 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/JyeD04X.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2024, 10:40:18 AM
According to Cherokee legend, the Milky Way was formed when a dog stole some cornmeal and was chased away. He ran to the north, spilling cornmeal as he ran. The Milky Way is thus called “The Way the Dog Ran Away.”
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2024, 11:00:45 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Robert Koch Announces Discovery of Tuberculosis Bacterium (1882)
Tuberculosis, a contagious, wasting disease that commonly attacks the lungs but may affect other organs and systems as well, is caused by several strains of mycobacteria, particularly Mycobacterium tuberculosis in humans. First identified in 1882 by German bacteriologist Robert Koch, M. tuberculosis is unusual because of its lipid-rich cell wall and because it divides every 15 to 20 hours, when other bacteria divide in minutes.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 24, 2024, 05:06:45 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/hcRYT0H.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 25, 2024, 08:28:39 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
John Lennon and Yoko Ono Hold Their First Bed-In for Peace (1969)
Five days after John Lennon of the Beatles married the Japanese avant-garde artist Yoko Ono, the couple held the first of two week-long Bed-Ins for Peace as a non-violent way of protesting war and promoting peace. For the first Bed-In, the couple invited members of the press into their Amsterdam hotel room and then sat in bed and talked about peace. Months later, they held their second Bed-In in Montreal.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2024, 08:37:59 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Agx3Kni.png)

I'm off to Istanbul in September for kicks and grins if conflict doesn't inhibit my plans....
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 25, 2024, 09:53:20 AM
Muhammad Ali defended the heavyweight championship with a 15th round TKO of "Bayonne Bleeder" Chuck Wepner in Richfield, Ohio in 1975.

Ali, a heavy favorite, kept Wepner on the outside with his jab for much of the fight. Occasionally Wepner managed to get inside and maul, but not consistently. Wepner seemed frustrated that he felt referee Tony Perez wouldn't allow him to do more in the clinch.

In round 9, just after Wepner said something to Perez about letting him work inside, Wepner sent Ali to the canvas by landing a right to the body as he stepped on Ali's foot. Perez called it a knockdown.

"[Perez] is a dirty referee," Ali said, insinuating that Perez favored Wepner in the bout. "He's a dirty dog. He'll never referee another of my fights."

Ali rose and wound up rocking Wepner with right hands a few rounds later, including a right hand that nearly turned Wepner around in round 13. The following round saw Wepner following Ali around, attempting to find something to end the fight in his favor.

Ali's corner implored him to end matters. "Get rid of this bum, champ!" screamed "Bundini" Brown. "Get rid of this bum!"

Wepner wasn't a bum, but that's what Ali did in round 15. With Wepner clearly weakening, Ali dialed up his offense and landed a hard right hand on Wepner as he lurched around the ring, wide open. Wepner sailed to the canvas, and the fight was stopped as he tried to get up.

"Many people thought this fight would be a joke, but you saw yourself a good fight," Ali quipped afterward. He's a good, awkward fighter. Better than you give him credit for."

Wepner, somewhat bitter about the result, said, "I thought I was in this thing all the way to the end. How many guys do you know that went 15 rounds with Muhammad Ali and were still punching at the end?"

Tony Perez never refereed another Muhammad Ali fight.


(https://i.imgur.com/wXTdaLL.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2024, 07:28:35 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/DQBNOjm.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2024, 08:17:34 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/65Nq5Q5.png)

THE ROMAN AQUEDUCT OF CARTHAGE
In the valley of the Miliane ouadi there are the imposing remains of the longest aqueduct ever built by the Romans which brought water to the city of Carthage.  Its construction required a major civil engineering intervention that lasted several years.
Built under Hadrian between 120 and 131 and restored in 203 by Septimius Severus, it was damaged by the Vandals and rebuilt in the Byzantine era.  The waters were conveyed towards the city directly from the springs of the Zaghouan region, the ancient Roman Ziqua along a route that stretched for 132 km.
Large sections of the countryside remain today of that imposing construction that unfolded in the middle of the Carthaginian plain.  The structure of the aqueduct was a simple arch over which the canal that transported the water ran.
The remains show the grandeur of these arches which reach even over 10 meters in height.  The aqueduct was ruined by the Arabs during the siege of Carthage in 698, but was reactivated by the Fatimids in the 10th century.  and restored in the 13th century by el-Mostancir, to whom numerous deviations date back.  Throughout its length, the aqueduct shows different construction techniques, evidence of the numerous restorations it has undergone.  The oldest parts are made of stone blocks, the most recent ones are made of brick or terracotta.
In the segment towards Oudna you can still recognize a series of arches surmounted by the stone vaulted conduit.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 25, 2024, 08:28:29 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/rs5f5BW.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 26, 2024, 04:51:13 AM
On this day, March 19th, in Black Ourstory
 
In 1966, Texas Western University made history in the NCAA Division One basketball tournament.
Coached by Don Haskins, with a team that started five Black players, defeated the University of Kentucky, coached by Adolph Rupp, for the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) basketball Championship. The Texas Western "Miners" starting five included Bobby Joe Hill, Willie Worsley, David Lattin, Orsten Artis, and Harry Flournoy.
Previously, an all-Black team had never played an all-white team in an NCAA title game. The game began with a message. Haskins informed us that Rupp had vowed five Blacks would never beat his team, but Texas Western center David Lattin had a point to prove.
On the Miners' second possession, he took a pass from Bobby Joe Hill and, as Haskins had suggested, slammed a forceful dunk over Kentucky's Pat Riley. "(Lattin) said, 'Take that you white honky,'" recalled UK's Pat Riley. "It was a violent game. I don't mean there were any fights, but they were desperate, and they were committed, and they were more motivated than we were."
The Miners nursed the lead, pulling ahead to stay when Hill converted consecutive steals from Kentucky's guards. Those two layups gave the Miners a 16-11 advantage. They never trailed again. 

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 09:23:29 AM

The rudders and shafts of the German aircraft carrier Graf Zeppelin on November 25, 1938. She would be launched shortly after this photo was taken.
Graf Zeppelin was fitted with the most powerful machinery fitted to a German capital ship during the Second World War. With sixteen high-pressure boilers and four turbines, Graf Zeppelin was designed to produce 200,000shp. This was calculated to produce an expected top speed of 33.8 knots.
However, the high speed would have been hampered by a relatively short range of 8,000nmi at 19 knots. In contrast, the American Essex class could produce 150,000shp but with an operational range of 20,000nmi at 15 knots.


(https://i.imgur.com/pBRn5M5.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 11:15:33 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/P33XrwY.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 27, 2024, 12:17:21 PM
The rudders and shafts of the German aircraft carrier Graf Zeppelin on November 25, 1938. She would be launched shortly after this photo was taken.
Graf Zeppelin was fitted with the most powerful machinery fitted to a German capital ship during the Second World War. With sixteen high-pressure boilers and four turbines, Graf Zeppelin was designed to produce 200,000shp. This was calculated to produce an expected top speed of 33.8 knots.
However, the high speed would have been hampered by a relatively short range of 8,000nmi at 19 knots. In contrast, the American Essex class could produce 150,000shp but with an operational range of 20,000nmi at 15 knots.
[img width=274.381 height=356]https://i.imgur.com/pBRn5M5.png[/img]
FWIW:
Most European navies had shorter ranged ships than the US and Japan because the North Sea, Mediterranean Sea, and Atlantic Ocean are considerably smaller than the Pacific.

This was a tougher nut to crack for the British who had worldwide naval commitments and thus needed ships for both smaller and larger operational areas. Their workaround generally was to possess a global empire including numerous little scattered islands that they could use to refuel/resupply/rearm. For example, this is why they acquired the Falkland Islands 🇫🇰 in the South Atlantic off Argentina and Gibraltar at the Southern tip of Spain. They STILL possess both of those despite significant diplomatic efforts by Spain to acquire Gibraltar and an actual invasion by Argentina to acquire the Falkland Islands. That war resulted in what I believe is the last sinking of an American WWII ship although the ship in question was in Argentine service at the time.

The range and expected combat utilization is also why British carriers had armored decks while American and Japanese carriers did not.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 12:26:41 PM
I'm hard pressed to envision any naval scenario where one German AC carrier in WW 2 would be of benefit.  They could cover their areas of interest with land based planes, and I see no way that carrier could make any real foray into the Atlantic.  It was a huge waste of resources.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 27, 2024, 12:45:20 PM
I'm hard pressed to envision any naval scenario where one German AC carrier in WW 2 would be of benefit.  They could cover their areas of interest with land based planes, and I see no way that carrier could make any real foray into the Atlantic.  It was a huge waste of resources.
I agree. The only possible advantage I could see would be the value as a fleet "in being" much like Tirpitz ended up. It was a waste of resources but the RN and USN were compelled to keep enough Battleships available at Scapa Flow to overwhelm it just in case Tirpitz sailed. Thus, there is an argument that building one Battleship could tie up four or five opposing Battleships. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 12:48:59 PM
A battleship could, and did, but a carrier?  Imagine that carrier was active with planes and escounced in Norway.  Compare that to just having land based planes, in Norway.

I can't imagine any real theater of operations where land based planes wouldn't suffice for Germany.

Carriers were critical in the Pacific for obvious reasons, not so much in the European theater (beyond closing the Gap).  Land based planes were generally sufficient.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 27, 2024, 01:22:03 PM
Though U.S. pharmacist John S. Pemberton invented Coca-Cola in 1886, his bookkeeper, Frank Robinson invented the name. Robinson had beautiful handwriting, and his flowering script is still used today.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 01:46:31 PM
The museum here is kind of interesting. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 27, 2024, 02:21:12 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Tenerife Disaster (1977)
The Tenerife Disaster was a passenger plane accident that resulted in the highest number of fatalities of any single accident in aviation history, excluding ground fatalities. It occurred when two Boeing 747s, a KLM flight in the midst of takeoff and a PanAm flight taxing in the opposite direction, collided at Los Rodeos Airport on the island of Tenerife in the Canary Islands, killing 583 people.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 27, 2024, 02:22:16 PM
A battleship could, and did, but a carrier?  Imagine that carrier was active with planes and escounced in Norway.  Compare that to just having land based planes, in Norway.

I can't imagine any real theater of operations where land based planes wouldn't suffice for Germany.

Carriers were critical in the Pacific for obvious reasons, not so much in the European theater (beyond closing the Gap).  Land based planes were generally sufficient.
I admit I was reaching, I said "only possible" but here is my theory on that:
The RN and later the USN used a lot of carriers for ASW in the Atlantic.  

Suppose that the Graf Zeppelin had been completed, crewed, and equipped with planes*.  Then the Germans keep it somewhere in Norway or even in a safer location in Kiel or the Baltic.  The RN and USN would probably have had to keep at least two or three carriers in place somewhere (probably Scapa Flow) as a precaution just in case the German Carrier set sail.  The theoretical advantage to the Germans is that the two or three RN and USN carriers held in Scapa Flow as a precaution against the Graf Zeppelin aren't out conducting ASW in the North Atlantic so that theoretically makes life a little easier for U-Boat Crews.  

*For the purpose that I'm suggesting here the Carrier wouldn't have actually needed a full crew nor planes nor aircrew, they just would have needed the Western Allies to *THINK* it was fully operational.  With good operational security you could accomplish that with a skeleton crew and few or no planes like the Japanese successfully did with their Carrier decoy force at the Battle of Leyte Gulf.  In that example the Japanese Carriers were fully crewed but they were practically worthless because they lacked planes and aircrew but Halsey didn't know that when he charged off to the North to sink them and left the Northern flank of the Leyte invasion fleet unprotected so the carriers did their job.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 03:04:09 PM
What would the German carrier accomplish?  Wouldn't land based planes in the UK pose a highly significant threat to it should it sally forth?

It might, at best, require a squadron or two of torpedo planes to be kept in the UK in the event of.

Or the Germans could have simply invested in more land based planes, a lot more.  I think it was laid down more as a political statement than a real weapon.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 03:10:53 PM
One other thing about carriers is the support ships they need to be effective, even today of course.  Nobody uses a carrier alone (aside from perhaps as a decoy), they need some destroyers and cruisers in support for anti sub and AA (and oilers probably).  Were the Germans going to build up enough for an actual carrier task force?  I doubt it.

My guess is the Graf Spee was designed thinking Germany would take over Europe and perhaps start looking afar for other places down the road.  It's not very useful for fighting a land war in Russia.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 27, 2024, 03:54:00 PM
The summit of Mount Everest was actually the seafloor 470 million years ago! That's right, the rock that comprises the "summit pyramid" or uppermost part of Mount Everest is gray limestone that was deposited on the northern continental shelf of northern India during the early to middle Ordovician Period of the Paleozoic Era, long before India began its northward journey towards Eurasia and the eventual collision of tectonic plates that uplifted the Himalaya and Tibetan Plateau. Called the "Qomolangma Limestone" by geologists, the summit rocks are well-bedded limestone (grainstone) with fragments of common Ordovician marine invertebrate shells, such as trilobites, brachiopods, ostracods and crinoids. The Qomolangma Limestone has been altered by heat, pressure and fluids that have altered the original limestone, so it is now a low-grade metamorphic rock. These rocks have been brought to the roof of the world through continual uplift caused by the collision of India and Eurasia (still on-going today), deep erosion of the Greater Himalaya, and fault displacement along the South Tibetan detachment that has tectonically placed the summit rocks over higher-grade metamorphic rocks below.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 27, 2024, 04:20:17 PM
One other thing about carriers is the support ships they need to be effective, even today of course.  Nobody uses a carrier alone (aside from perhaps as a decoy), they need some destroyers and cruisers in support for anti sub and AA (and oilers probably).  Were the Germans going to build up enough for an actual carrier task force?  I doubt it.

My guess is the Graf Spee was designed thinking Germany would take over Europe and perhaps start looking afar for other places down the road.  It's not very useful for fighting a land war in Russia. 
Vanity project?  

Political statement?

Decoy / carrier in being?  

It also *MIGHT* have been useful in a theoretical limited war against a neighboring country but in WWII up against the RN and USN it was pretty useless and you are obviously right that it wasn't helpful at all on the Eastern Front.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 27, 2024, 05:43:46 PM
The summit of Mount Everest was actually the seafloor 470 million years ago! 
sure, as far as we know...........
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2024, 05:44:08 AM
Well, it's in the Weird History Books, so it has to be true.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2024, 06:03:13 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/IiB6anf.png)

Atlanta Airport 1967. Terminals closed in 1981.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2024, 06:25:51 AM
This view of Ponce de Leon Ball Park also known at various times as Cracker field and Spiller Park dates to around 1910 where you can see the wooden grandstands. These grandstands burned to the ground in 1923 on the day that the then owner’s (Rell J. Spiller) granddaughter, Louise Suggs, was born. Suggs went on to become a very famous golfer and was one of the founders of the LPGA. By 1924, the park had been rebuilt with concrete to replace the wooden grandstands.

The park served as the primary home of the minor league Atlanta Crackers for nearly six decades. The Crackers played here in the Southern Association (1907–1959) and the International League (1962–64). The park also served as a temporary home for the Negro League Atlanta Black Crackers in 1932 and again in 1938.

A huge Magnolia tree, halfway up a steep embankment with no fence, was in play in right-center. During exhibition games, both Babe Ruth and Eddie Mathews hit drives that became stuck the distant tree. The park hosted the fastest game in organized baseball history (at the time) on September 17, 1910, when the Mobile Sea Gulls defeated the Crackers in only 32 minutes; it was the last game of the season, and the two teams wanted to see how fast a baseball game could be played. (That record was eclipsed in 1916 during a North Carolina State League game.)

After the Crackers moved to Atlanta Stadium in 1965, Ponce de Leon Park was demolished in favor of a shopping center, and today a strip mall, Midtown Place, occupies the location. The famous Magnolia tree is still standing at the rear of the mall along the Beltline trail. 

(https://i.imgur.com/ZJchpRm.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2024, 06:50:05 AM
On Tuesday, March 26, 2024, which was 2 1/2 days after this post was first made, the Francis Scott Key Bridge collapsed after being struck by a cargo ship. Below is the original post.
On March 23, 1977, the four-lane Francis Scott Key Bridge opened to traffic and is named for the author of the Star-Spangled Banner. The 1.6-mile bridge extended across the Baltimore Harbor and connected Sollers Point in Baltimore County with Hawkins Point in Baltimore City. This was also the final link in establishing the 52-mile Baltimore Beltway (Interstate 695).
By the early 1960s, the Baltimore Harbor Tunnel (Interstate 895), the first crossing of Baltimore's Harbor, had reached its traffic capacity, and motorists encountered heavy congestion and delays almost daily during rush hours. The State Roads Commission, predecessor of the Maryland Transportation Authority (MDTA), concluded there was a need for a second harbor crossing.
Construction on the Francis Scott Key Bridge began in 1972. Including its connecting approaches, the bridge project was 10.9 miles in length. Other structures along the thruway include a .64-mile dual-span drawbridge over Curtis Creek and two .74-mile parallel bridge structures that carry traffic over Bear Creek, near Bethlehem Steel's Sparrows Point plant.

(https://i.imgur.com/kBSHj1C.png)
-----------
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 28, 2024, 07:31:26 AM
Black crackers???

Weird
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2024, 07:42:06 AM
The Atlanta Black Crackers of the Negro Leagues | MLB.com (https://www.mlb.com/history/negro-leagues/teams/atlanta-black-crackers)

At that time, other terms were applied to black people of course that were more pejorative.

But it is a bit of an oxymoron.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 28, 2024, 07:44:10 AM
oxymorons are weird
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 28, 2024, 07:57:14 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Constantinople Becomes Istanbul (1930)
The city now known as Istanbul was founded as the Greek colony of Byzantium in the 8th century BCE. Eventually passing to Alexander the Great, it became a free city under the Romans in the 1st century CE. Emperor Constantine I made the city the seat of the Eastern Roman Empire in 330, later naming it Constantinople. It remained the capital of the subsequent Byzantine Empire after the fall of Rome in the late 5th century and then changed hands several times.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2024, 07:58:28 AM
We're visiting there in September, I look forward to it, watched a few videos of the city.  Our neighbor will be our tour guide.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2024, 09:12:16 AM
Panama Canal Culebra Cut milestone | Civil Engineering Source | ASCE (https://www.asce.org/publications-and-news/civil-engineering-source/article/2021/05/19/panama-canal-culebra-cut-milestone)

By 1888, the French conceded the impact of the unsuitable soil and changed course to build the canal with temporary locks as an interim plan until sea level could be reached. However, a combination of the soils underestimation, disease, labor strife, and financial difficulties led to the collapse of the French effort by the end of the year. In 1894, a second French company was formed for the project, but would not further the canal-building significantly.

The United States took over the project in 1904. At that time, the French had lowered the 210-foot summit by less than 20 feet. The American effort was a lock-based canal, which would require the removal of an additional 150 feet of material, not as deep as the French proposal, but substantially wider. On May 20, 1913, after years of excavating and blasting through the continental divide, steam shovels #222 and #230 met and faced one another on the bottom of the Cut, at 40 feet above sea level.

In total, the French excavated almost 19 million cubic yards of material and the Americans over 100 million cubic yards. It would be another year before the canal was formally opened on Aug. 15, 1914, with the passage of the cargo ship S.S. Ancon. However, the breakthrough at Culebra culminated decades of planning and construction, and it proved a milestone in turning the idea of the Panama Canal into reality.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2024, 09:37:43 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/2lPBMD0.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 28, 2024, 10:17:52 AM
Panama Canal Culebra Cut milestone | Civil Engineering Source | ASCE (https://www.asce.org/publications-and-news/civil-engineering-source/article/2021/05/19/panama-canal-culebra-cut-milestone)

By 1888, the French conceded the impact of the unsuitable soil and changed course to build the canal with temporary locks as an interim plan until sea level could be reached. However, a combination of the soils underestimation, disease, labor strife, and financial difficulties led to the collapse of the French effort by the end of the year. In 1894, a second French company was formed for the project, but would not further the canal-building significantly.

The United States took over the project in 1904. At that time, the French had lowered the 210-foot summit by less than 20 feet. The American effort was a lock-based canal, which would require the removal of an additional 150 feet of material, not as deep as the French proposal, but substantially wider. On May 20, 1913, after years of excavating and blasting through the continental divide, steam shovels #222 and #230 met and faced one another on the bottom of the Cut, at 40 feet above sea level.

In total, the French excavated almost 19 million cubic yards of material and the Americans over 100 million cubic yards. It would be another year before the canal was formally opened on Aug. 15, 1914, with the passage of the cargo ship S.S. Ancon. However, the breakthrough at Culebra culminated decades of planning and construction, and it proved a milestone in turning the idea of the Panama Canal into reality.
Someday it may be replaced:
https://porteconomicsmanagement.org/pemp/contents/part9/nicaragua-canal-project/
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Riffraft on March 28, 2024, 10:57:10 AM
We're visiting there in September, I look forward to it, watched a few videos of the city.  Our neighbor will be our tour guide.
Was suppose to be visiting there on a cruise next April, but NCL just cancelled the cruise because it included Israel & Eygpt.  Was looking forward to seeing the Hagia Sophia and other great architecture.  Going to have to figure something else out
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2024, 10:58:46 AM
NCL offers cruises based out of Instanbul now of course, I checked out a few of them to see the Greek Isles.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2024, 11:55:40 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/BlvB8GI.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2024, 01:07:38 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/KVT9MuV.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: GopherRock on March 28, 2024, 01:16:07 PM
Someday it may be replaced:
https://porteconomicsmanagement.org/pemp/contents/part9/nicaragua-canal-project/
People have been talking about a canal at Nicaragua and/or Tehuantepec since the arrival of the Europeans in the Americas, and not done much.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 28, 2024, 02:06:30 PM
People have been talking about a canal at Nicaragua and/or Tehuantepec since the arrival of the Europeans in the Americas, and not done much.
Definitely but two things could incentivise moving forward on it sometime soon:

*Panamax is generally defined as:

Iowa Class Battleships squeezed in at 108' 2" wide and also with a draft too deep for the canal but they had to unload ballast, fuel, and stores/ammunition to get their draft down to the limit then reload once through.

Suezmax is:

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2024, 02:10:51 PM
I passed under that bridge. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 28, 2024, 04:25:30 PM
A Masters from Georgia. Not a degree in Athens –- a golf tournament in Augusta. And it was a hit off the first tee.
After golfer Bobby Jones retired, he and businessman Clifford Roberts developed a national landmark. Jones brought credibility, while Roberts had business savvy. Jones and noted golf course architect Alister Mackenzie designed the course on an abandoned 365-acre nursery called Fruitlands. It had been a plantation once.
Roberts and Jones wanted a major tournament at Augusta National, but when? Summer? Impossibly hot! But spring? Unbeatably beautiful! The flowers were in bloom and no other major tournament competed. They decided to stage an annual event hosted by Jones, who would come out of retirement once a year to play at what was first called the Augusta National Golf Club Invitation Tournament. Horton Smith won the first year. It officially became the Masters in 1939; the green jacket ceremony began in 1949.
One of the world’s iconic sporting events began on March 22, 1934, Today in Georgia History.
(https://i.imgur.com/tOZS4Rv.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 28, 2024, 05:16:59 PM
In 1986, Norwegian Monica Kristensen received the prestigious Gold Medal of the Royal Geographical Society in London, becoming the first woman in 50 years to receive this award, for leading a successful expedition to the South Pole.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2024, 07:41:13 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/UBcOfEg.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 29, 2024, 08:08:54 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Gustav III of Sweden Dies of Infected Gunshot Wound (1792)
Gustav III was King of Sweden from 1771 to 1792. Having inherited a weakened Swedish throne, he established a new constitution that increased the crown's power. His numerous enlightened reforms antagonized the nobility, and when a group of Swedish officers mutinied during his unpopular war on Russia, he reinstated absolute monarchy. Gustav planned to form a league of European monarchs to oppose the French Revolution, but Swedish nobles had him assassinated.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 29, 2024, 08:13:43 AM
ODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 
Ernst Jünger (1895)
Early in his career, Jünger, a German writer and WWI veteran, published novels based on his army experience. Strongly influenced by German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche, they glorified war and its sacrifice as the greatest physical and mental stimulants. He later opposed Hitler and rejected his own militarism, expressing instead a desire for peace in his wartime diaries and in futuristic novels like On the Marble Cliffs, an allegorical attack on Nazism.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 29, 2024, 09:06:24 AM
*Panamax is generally defined as:
  • 965' length.
  • 106' width
  • 39.5' draft

Iowa Class Battleships squeezed in at 108' 2" wide and also with a draft too deep for the canal but they had to unload ballast, fuel, and stores/ammunition to get their draft down to the limit then reload once through.
Jeebis one would think Yamamoto would have his subs there licking their chops - if it wasn't twice as far from Japan as Hawaii. That plan would have made sense logistically during the early stages of the Pacific war, when the US Navy had half of its 6 carriers on the opposite oceans . There were air bases and coastal guns at both ends of the canal. Still it would have been a great choke point for ambush. The IJN had quite advanced machines and "long lance" torpedoes at the time but didn't coordinate their deployments effectively from what I've read. In hindsight strategically perhaps they should have skipped speading themselves to thin around the vastness of the Pacific. But prolly didn't think the USA could reload at break neck speed. Logistics,planning and industry probably caught up to Hirohito's over confidence. But what if......


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 29, 2024, 09:35:11 AM
Submarines struggle to operate in WW 2 where there were decent land airbases nearby, especially if planes had radar.  I imagine we pretty well saturated the exits of the Canal with air cover early in the war.  And I don't know how long a Japanese sub could "linger" due to fuel and supply issues.

One probable mistake Yamamoto made after Pearl Harbor was the attack in the Indian Ocean, those weren't very strategic I think.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 29, 2024, 09:49:38 AM
Yup,Britain i suppose was somewhat fortunate as Burma was pretty far from Japan and to supply the IJF there they had to run US Pacific Fleet gauntlet to get supplied.US Pacific forces pretty well reclaimed alot European holdings there & around the Pacific. So IJF established there were almost dying on the vine the day they landed .
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 29, 2024, 10:13:01 AM
Jeebis one would think Yamamoto would have his subs there licking their chops - if it wasn't twice as far from Japan as Hawaii. That plan would have made sense logistically during the early stages of the Pacific war, when the US Navy had half of its 6 carriers on the opposite oceans . There were air bases and coastal guns at both ends of the canal. Still it would have been a great choke point for ambush. The IJN had quite advanced machines and "long lance" torpedoes at the time but didn't coordinate their deployments effectively from what I've read. In hindsight strategically perhaps they should have skipped speading themselves to thin around the vastness of the Pacific. But prolly didn't think the USA could reload at break neck speed. Logistics,planning and industry probably caught up to Hirohito's over confidence. But what if......
They actually built a submarine that could carry a plane and launch it. The intention was to use the submarine to get within range of the Panama Canal then launch the plane with munitions to destroy some critical part of the canal.

If that had existed and been functional in time to use it simultaneously with Pearl Harbor and all the rest of their attacks on December 7/8, 1941 it might have actually worked.

At the end of the day, even if it had worked I don't think it would have been more than a relatively minor annoyance for the United States. The US built the canal so I consider it axiomatic that the US could repair any damage done to the canal and realistically one plane couldn't do all that much damage even with a direct hit. It might, however, have put the canal out of action for a few months which would have drastically slowed the US response because Hornet and other ships then in the Atlantic would either have had to stay in the Atlantic until the canal was repaired, go around Africa, or go around South America.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 29, 2024, 02:55:00 PM
Found this, thought it might be of interest. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 29, 2024, 10:22:08 PM
for Badge, when he buys a bigger yacht 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 30, 2024, 03:55:27 AM
The Japanese shelled Calfironia a bit from subs.

When Japanese submarines attacked California and Oregon | We Are The Mighty (https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles/the-time-japanese-submarines-attacked-california-and-oregon-during-wwii/)

On August 15, 1942, I-25 left Yokosuka to make what would be the final Japanese attack on the American coast. The attack was reprisal for the Doolittle Raid (https://www.wearethemighty.com/mighty-history/wwii-legends-doolittle-raiders/) on Tokyo in April of that year. On September 9, I-25 launched its E14Y "Glen" seaplane. Piloted by Warrant Flying Officer Nobuo Fujita, the plane dropped two 76-kilogram incendiary bombs on a forest near Brookings, Oregon. Though the mission was meant to trigger wildfires, light winds and typically wet Pacific Northwest weather kept the fire from spreading. The attack remains the only time an enemy aircraft has bombed the mainland United States.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 30, 2024, 05:28:37 AM
The whole attempt just illustrates how utterly hopeless the Japanese were. They dropped two bombs in the hope that those would start forest fires. 

I had to Google it but 76 kg is ~167#. So the total bomb load was a hair over 300# and this was supposed to work?

The pictured B29 carried 5,000 to 20,000 pounds of bombs depending upon range and the United States built almost 4,000 of them and sent them over Japan in waves of hundreds of planes. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 30, 2024, 05:56:07 AM
Even a small incendiary can be problematic if it hits the right spot, but it would need a lot of dry tinder to amount to much.  And yes, the US later dropped far more ordinance.

Our bombing raids would start with HE to scatter wood from houses and then incendiary to burn it, which worked.  More died in the Tokyo fire bombing than at Hiroshima.

History’s deadliest air raid happened in Tokyo during World War II and you’ve probably never heard of it | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/07/asia/japan-tokyo-fire-raids-operation-meetinghouse-intl-hnk/index.html)


(https://i.imgur.com/dSUaVbM.jpeg)

Between 1:30 a.m. and 3:00 a.m. the main force of American B-29s unleashed 500,000 M-69 bombs, each one clustered in groups of 38 and weighing six pounds.

The clusters would separate during their descent and small parachutes would carry each bomblet to the ground.




Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 30, 2024, 08:35:51 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Hymen Lipman Patents Pencil with Attached Eraser (1858)
In prehistoric times, lumps of colored earth or chalk were used as markers. The so-called lead pencil—a rod of graphite encased in wood—first came into use in the 16th century. However, it was not until the 19th century that the eraser was added—an innovation that earned Hymen Lipman a patent in 1858. In 1862, he sold his patent to Joseph Reckendorfer for $100,000.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 30, 2024, 05:14:41 PM
The smallest town in the United States is located in Nebraska. Monowi, NE is home to 1 resident, Elsie Eiler who is the towns Mayor, Librarian, and Bar Owner . . .



(https://i.imgur.com/jtC537a.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 30, 2024, 11:32:07 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/eCdjoUm.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 31, 2024, 05:02:51 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Y8IxZXB.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 31, 2024, 09:18:58 AM
ARTICLE OF THE DAY: 

The Plague Riot
In the spring of 1771, an outbreak of bubonic plague swept through Moscow. Authorities instituted a number of policies in an attempt to contain the epidemic, but the severe measures were unpopular with the general public. Factories and stores were shut down, and the economy was essentially at a standstill. Fearful, and faced with acute food shortages, the people took to the streets in an uprising that would later be known as the Plague Riot.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 31, 2024, 09:19:41 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Alhambra Decree Is Issued (1492)
Fourteen years after Ferdinand II and Isabella I, the "Catholic Monarchs" of Spain, established the Spanish Inquisition to discover and punish converted Jews—and later Muslims—who were insincere, they issued the Alhambra Decree, an edict ordering the expulsion of all Jews who refused to convert to Christianity. Any Jew who did not convert or leave by the deadline faced execution. Non-Jews found sheltering or hiding Jews had all of their belongings seized.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 31, 2024, 09:21:07 AM
Even a small incendiary can be problematic if it hits the right spot, but it would need a lot of dry tinder to amount to much.  And yes, the US later dropped far more ordinance.

Our bombing raids would start with HE to scatter wood from houses and then incendiary to burn it, which worked.  More died in the Tokyo fire bombing than at Hiroshima.
I remember reading many of Mark Twain's books and he mentioned even in the 1800s wild fires were a thing out west. So perhaps IJF were aware of this and gave it a shot with little risk or provisions involved for a possible big favorable results.If they didn't know that then it was wishful yearning perhaps hoping for histeria or some such
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 31, 2024, 09:29:23 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

The Alhambra Decree Is Issued (1492)
Fourteen years after Ferdinand II and Isabella I, the "Catholic Monarchs" of Spain, established the Spanish Inquisition to discover and punish converted Jews—and later Muslims—who were insincere, they issued the Alhambra Decree, an edict ordering the expulsion of all Jews who refused to convert to Christianity. Any Jew who did not convert or leave by the deadline faced execution. Non-Jews found sheltering or hiding Jews had all of their belongings seized.
Ya sounds like something Jesus preached ~???
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 31, 2024, 09:57:23 AM
A lot of the expelled Jews found homes in the Muslim empires of the day and brought with them considerable skills and learning.

The Ottomans in particular benefitted.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 31, 2024, 10:05:33 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/NwciWNm.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on March 31, 2024, 10:24:00 AM
Truth is a stranger to the fiction Dept. A photo that set in motion a lot of problems for the couple. Johnny Cash was married to an African American woman in the 1950s.

They would say she was Italian ( which in itself could mean she has African blood, but suspected it was more than just that ) but the Klan down south gave them the side eye protesting him and his shows.

"That was a perilous time to be an interracial couple, so give props to them both."

Turns out the ” man in black “ was a true rebel and lived life on his terms, with respect! She ended up bowing out of the marriage ( after ten years and children, Roseanne Cash being one ), as the stress of it got to be too much for her. Even now in the movies, they don’t portray her as she was…


(https://i.imgur.com/OV0yQS1.png)
Saw a episode of “ who do you think you are” with Roseanne Cash. Turns out they did have a large amount of African ancestry, on both her mother and fathers side. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 31, 2024, 10:48:25 AM
Ya sounds like something Jesus preached ~???
or Hitler
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 31, 2024, 11:04:47 AM
In the longer term the Thompson was too expensive to import in sufficient numbers for the British, who designed their own sub-machine gun. The Sten (550 rpm) was crude and susceptible to fracture if dropped, but cheap and efficient. Over 4,000,000 were produced from 1942 and they also proved to be a key weapon for resistance fighters across Europe. A silencer-equipped version was also developed and used by commando and airborne forces. https://militaryhistoria.com/sten-smg/

(https://i.imgur.com/dransFY.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2024, 04:58:29 AM
One flight in 1970 costs the same as nearly 11 today.

(https://i.imgur.com/c7RCD3f.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 01, 2024, 09:32:21 AM
adjusted for inflation?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2024, 09:42:39 AM
Yes.  I recall my first trip from Raleigh to Pittsburg in 1980.  The ticket was in the many hundreds, in 1980 prices, maybe $600.  That would be over $2200 today.  I wasn't paying for it, it was a recruiting visit.  I looked up a flight from here to Orlando yesterday and it showed $137.

I recall gas when I started working in 1980 was $1.17 for self serve low lead off brand near where I worked.  I thought it was sky high.  That would be $4.33 today, and has prices around here are about $3.50.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 01, 2024, 10:00:05 AM
yup, I started working at a gas station in 1980

gas was $1.17
dropped back to $1.14 a few days later

folks were up in arms because it had recently crossed the 99cents limit

truck driver delivering gas showed me bullet holes in his cab
I was instructed to give all the cash in the drawer if/when the station was held up

never happened

cigarettes were 60 cents a pack and cartons were $5.75
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 01, 2024, 10:00:50 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/qfuM0cA.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 01, 2024, 11:44:08 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/xAgAQnV.png)

DEPRESSION ERA CHAMP

By the early 1930’s Braddock was a has-been. He had been a promising light-heavyweight contender in the 1920’s, but lost his only title shot, a decision to Tommy Loughran, in 1929. This precipitated a skid in which Braddock lost five times in six fights, but he had earned a fair share of purses and had invested for his future.
Like many of his countrymen, Braddock’s nest egg was wiped out by the Wall Street Crash of 1929. He continued to box, but a series of hand injuries hampered his effectiveness in the ring.
“He couldn’t beat anybody,” said Jeremy Schapp, author of the book on Braddock titled Cinderella Man: James J.Braddock, Max Baer, and the Greatest Upset in Boxing History).
He was reduced to fighting for peanuts in backwater venues, and by the time Braddock hung up his gloves and retired from the sport in despair he had won just four of his last eleven fights.
He managed to get longshoremen’s papers and went to work on the Jersey docks, but even there jobs were scarce. More often than not, he would arise early and trudge to the docks, only to return empty handed. With a wife and three children to feed, he increasingly despaired for his family.

Late in 1933 he put his pride aside and applied for a place on the county welfare rolls. At one point he and his wife, Mae, even had to farm their children out to their grandparents because he could no longer care for them.
During this dark period at least two remarkable things occurred. One was that time away from the ring gave his hands a chance to heal. The other was that his stint on the docks transformed Braddock from a 175 pounder into a much stronger, well muscled heavyweight.
Braddock had given no thought to a comeback, and hadn’t been near a gym in months, when his loyal friend and ever scuffling manager, Joe Gould, crossed the Hudson bearing news of an offer to fight again. Primo Carnera was scheduled to defend his title against Max Baer at the Madison Square Garden Bowl in Queens two nights later, and an up-and-coming heavyweight named Corn Griffin, whom the boxing powers hoped to groom for the big time, was slated to perform of the undercard, but his scheduled foe had fallen out.
Garden matchmaker Jimmy Johnston needed an Opponent - with a capital “O” - for Griffin, and Braddock could earn $250 for serving as canon fodder. Because he needed the money - Gould had wangled a $100 advance, which he split with Braddock, out of Johnston - he agreed.

On June 14, 1934, Braddock knocked out Griffin in three rounds.

Three fights and 364 days later James J. Braddock was the heavyweight champion of the world - “At a time when the heavyweight champion was, inarguably, the biggest man in sports,” noted Schapp.
Schapp reckons that Braddock’s “Cinderella” (It was Damon Runyon who bestowed the moniker on Braddock) tale lapsed into obscurity for at least two reasons: The first was that Braddock’s immediate heir was Joe Louis, whose own legend grew to such proportions that it quickly obscured that of his predecessor. And the other is that Braddock’s accomplishments took place in the bleakest period of 20th-century America: Once it was over, Americans wanted to put the Great Depression, and everything connected with it, behind them.
“But to me the ‘20’s and 30’s were a fascinating era for boxing,” said Schapp. “Far more interesting than the ‘40’s or ‘50’s or ‘60’s. The NFL was still in its infancy; the NBA didn’t exist. Baseball and horse racing were the only other games in town. Boxing champions were celebrities, and the heavyweight champion was the biggest celebrity of all.”

- George Kimball with Jeremy Schapp
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 01, 2024, 11:59:16 AM
Saw a episode of “ who do you think you are” with Roseanne Cash. Turns out they did have a large amount of African ancestry, on both her mother and fathers side.
Think that was "Finding Your Roots" on PBS - saw the same one
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2024, 12:02:25 PM
[float=right max=45%](https://boxrec.com/wiki/thumb.php?f=Braddock_vs_Griffin.jpeg&width=400) (https://boxrec.com/wiki/index.php/File:Braddock_vs_Griffin.jpeg)[/float]

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 01, 2024, 12:05:59 PM



  • After the fight Braddock told his manager, Joe Gould (https://boxrec.com/wiki/index.php/Joe_Gould): "I did that on hash, Joe. Wait till you see what I can do on steak."
Thought you were going to say opium
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 01, 2024, 12:51:50 PM
Yes, this is an Atlanta view, but it wasn’t taken on any current Atlanta Street. This was the Cotton States and International Exposition in 1895 on the occasion of President Cleveland’s visit. He arrived on October 23rd outside the US Government building. Over 40,000 people visited that day and it is estimated that the President shook 2,800 hands in the first 30 minutes. The Exposition took place in Piedmont Park, and all of the buildings were taken down afterwards. Amazing buildings, right?

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on April 01, 2024, 03:30:32 PM
Gas prices....

I recall that as a young man (80's and 90's), gasoline mostly stayed around $1.00 per gallon.  It might dip into the high $.80's, or swing up to $1.15-1.25, but never seemed to changed much.  

Then in the early 2000's it seems like gas prices started to swing a lot more, reacting to every piece of news, storm, or other type of disruption real or not.  I also recall that most of the major oil co's either merged or got bought out just before or after Y2K.  

Chevron-Phillips
Exxon-Mobil
BP-Amoco

Lots of other more regional co's I'm sure we all remember disappearing.  

My father-in-law and myself have gotten into the same argument over the last ~20 years about peak oil.  He was of the opinion (still is, though not long for this world at 82 and in very poor health) that we passed peak oil after Y2K, and oil will become more and more scarce.  My argument is that we have not yet hit peak oil, and we will never "run out" of oil, because as the price goes higher and higher, the means to extract it will get more and more sophisticated.  He disagrees, he feels we will begin to run out of oil at anytime.  So far, my argument has held up, but he won't admit it.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 01, 2024, 03:52:57 PM
Gas prices....

Then in the early 2000's it seems like gas prices started to swing a lot more, reacting to every piece of news, storm, or other type of disruption real or not.  I also recall that most of the major oil co's either merged or got bought out just before or after Y2K. 
George W
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 01, 2024, 05:06:51 PM
https://komonews.com/amp/news/nation-world/lou-conter-last-survivor-of-uss-arizona-from-pearl-harbor-attack-dies-at-102-battleship-japanese-bombing-explosion-wreckage-world-war-ii-sailors-military-navy-marines-death-congestive-heart-failure
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on April 01, 2024, 09:09:48 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/7BQk1KG.png)


DST always made so much sense to me, but this graph illustrates it better than I ever thought about it.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 01, 2024, 10:22:12 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/am6k0wA.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 02, 2024, 05:49:30 AM
At the peak of the Liberty ship production, shipyards could deliver a completed vessel in less than a week. The record was set by the SS Robert E. Peary, built by the Kaiser Permanente Metals Corporation’s yard in Richmond, California, launched just 4 days, 15 hours, and 30 minutes after the keel was laid.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 02, 2024, 08:35:39 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

CN Tower Becomes World's Tallest Free-Standing Structure (1975)
In 1975, the final portion of the antenna atop Canada's CN Tower was set in place, completing the tower and officially making it the tallest free-standing structure on land. At 1,815 ft (553 m) in height, the CN Tower surpassed the previous record holder, Russia's Ostankino Tower, by 43 ft (13 m) but was itself surpassed in 2007 by Dubai's Burj Khalifa. According to a study, the CN Tower is struck by lightning more than any other structure in Toronto.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 02, 2024, 10:55:56 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/bpf5OIh.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 03, 2024, 10:41:25 AM
Back in the early 1920s, two guys named Tom and John were traveling across America, trying to get to California to start a new life.  At some point during their journey, they found themselves in the middle of the world’s largest cornfield, and they were quite hungry.  Iowa didn’t have too many restaurants back in the 1920s, but they did have a few supper clubs.  The chef at one of these supper club was fairly new.  His name was Grant, and he was trying to save up enough money to move out of his mother’s basement.  Being a very determined individual, Grant didn’t let the fact that he sucked at cooking deter him in any way.  After all, nobody in Iowa could cook anyway, so he didn’t feel very out of place.
Like most Iowans, young Grant thought that Iowa was the center of the universe.  Considering the fact that Jesus traveled further from home on the back of a donkey than most Iowans will ever travel with modern conveyances, this Iowa-centric mindset almost makes sense.  In the worldview of a typical Iowan, the best tenderloins, pizza, and beef all come from Iowa, and every other state over-seasons their food.  Iowans also think they own the concept of the breaded pork tenderloin and rarely give Indiana credit, although the tenderloins in Indiana are much better than any you will ever find in Iowa.  After looking at the menu, Tom and John were very much disappointed.  Neither one of them particularly liked the idea of eating an unseasoned, deep fried pork tenderloin, and the boiled ribs, unseasoned fried chicken, bland pizza and cottage cheese didn’t sound very appetizing to them either.  Not wanting to leave hungry, the two men asked the waitress if they could speak to the chef.
When Grant arrived at the table, the men explained that they had just come to America from Greece.  They informed Grant that unseasoned Iowa food was not going to be acceptable, and they asked if he could come up with a dish that was more suitable for a normal human palate.  Grant thought about it for a minute, and he realized that the resources he had available in the Iowa supper club’s kitchen were very limited.  The only spice they had on hand was pumpkin spice, and the only other meat they had was in some canned chili.  Even as far back as the 1920’s Iowans were lazy and couldn’t cook.  Since Sysco didn’t exist yet, they just bought everything in jars from the Amish people who lived nearby. 
In an attempt to please his Greek guests, Grant decided to experiment with the pumpkin spice in the chili.  After dumping some pumpkin spice in the canned Amish chili, Grant realized that what he had just made didn’t taste very Greek.  He had never been to Greece, but he knew from school that it was somewhere close to Italy.  Being the quick thinker that he was, Grant grabbed some spaghetti noodles that he was going to use to make pasta salad.  He then dumped the pumpkin spiced Amish chili on top of the spaghetti noodles.  At this point, Grant was very proud of what he had accomplished and decided to serve the dish to his Greek guests.
As you can imagine, these well-cultured Greek immigrants were not very impressed with the uncultured Iowan attempt at “Greek” food.  Worried that the food could keep getting worse as they progressed deeper into corn country, the two men decided to leave Iowa forever, and they turned back east.  They eventually settled in Cincinnati, where they made some slight improvements on the unseasoned Amish canned chili from Iowa and became very rich.  Grant decided that he wasn’t cut out for the cooking business.  After seeing the sad faces on an elderly couple who just ate his bland fried chicken, he painted a picture of them standing in front of a farmhouse with a pitchfork.  His work was a hit, and he never had to cook again.


(https://i.imgur.com/VAkgGTj.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 04, 2024, 07:27:23 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/5FhpSDN.png)

Opened in 1992, the Georgia Dome is located in the heart of downtown Atlanta. In addition to hosting the 1996 Atlanta Olympics, the Georgia Dome has hosted two NFL Super Bowls and several NCAA college basketball finals, and is the only venue in the nation to have hosted the Olympics, the Super Bowl and the NCAA Final Four.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 04, 2024, 09:36:20 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Susanna M. Salter, First Female US Mayor, Elected (1887)
After attending Kansas State Agricultural College, Salter moved with her husband to the town of Argonia, Kansas, and became the first woman to have a baby there. Following the city's incorporation in 1885, her father was elected to be its first mayor. Two years later, while serving as an officer in the local Women's Christian Temperance Union and caring for her family, she was placed on the ballot as a mayoral candidate and became the first female mayor elected in the US.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 04, 2024, 09:40:41 AM
so, it's Iowa chili!

Lazy hacks from Cincy
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 04, 2024, 09:53:41 AM
I was musing about our little upcoming trip, thinking maybe we'd stay somewhere else for a night, and thought of Augusta, GA.  Hey, I lived there as a kid, would be kinda neat to see what it's like today.  So, I go on the Hilton web site to check prices.  HOLY COW!!!!

Whattzup wid dat?

Hampton Inn, outside town, $444 a night.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 04, 2024, 09:57:01 AM
Masters is coming up. Lots of the guys do a practice week there, and people want to watch it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 04, 2024, 10:45:47 AM
I was musing about our little upcoming trip, thinking maybe we'd stay somewhere else for a night, and thought of Augusta, GA.  Hey, I lived there as a kid, would be kinda neat to see what it's like today.  So, I go on the Hilton web site to check prices.  HOLY COW!!!!

Whattzup wid dat?

Hampton Inn, outside town, $444 a night.
(https://y.yarn.co/049b667a-b629-4b50-9257-211e734c1353_text.gif)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 04, 2024, 10:57:36 AM
Heh, I wasn't thinking about that when I checked prices.  I used to park cars in our front yard for a quarter during the Masters, well I allowed folks to park there.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 05, 2024, 01:42:27 PM
From 1930 to 1958, the southern terminus of the A.T. in Georgia was at Mt. Oglethorpe near Jasper. Early hikers like Earl Shaffer, Gene Espy, Mildred Norman (Peace Pilgrim) Ryder and Emma (Grandma) Gatewood and others less well known, would have hiked from Oglethorpe. In the mid-1950’s because  of the deterioration of trail conditions on the private lands through which the trail traveled from Mt. Oglethorpe northward to Amicalola Falls State Park, the Georgia Appalachian Trail Club petitioned the Appalachian Trail Conference to change the terminus to Springer Mountain. In the spring of 1958, Murray Stevens, the chair of the ATC, traveled to Georgia to have a look at what the GATC was proposing. On completion of his hike to Springer, Stevens said that the change would be “one of which we can all be proud” and supported the recommendation.

But that wasn’t the only proposal considered here in Georgia in 1958. The members of the GATC also proposed changing the name of the “mountain named ‘Springer.’” They wanted to honor the Cherokee nation, whose traditional territory the A.T. travels through in much of the deep south. GATC members consulted members of the Eastern Band of the Cherokee to identify a name they could recommend to the Georgia Legislature. Suggestions included names such as “Cherokee” and “Tickanetly." Club members at that time ultimately determined any name in the language of the Cherokee wouldn’t roll off English-speaking tongues easily. The “mountain named Springer” remained so despite how we may think today. As the northern terminus of the A.T. at Katahdin honors the Penobscot, it may have been fitting to honor the Cherokee on the southern end of the trail. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 05, 2024, 08:54:15 PM
Famously Mark Twain is buried twelve feet deep. That’s because his pen name is a reference to his days as a Mississippi steamboat pilot.
When sounding the depth of the river crew would call mark twain for a depth of two fathoms. And two fathoms are equal to twelve feet.



And lawyer’s graves are 25 feet deep. Because deep down they’re nice guys.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2024, 08:25:54 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/N87pEWH.png)

USS MIDWAY & USS IOWA

Interesting size comparison, the Midway is basically the size of Nimitz class carriers.  The Iowa was designed to fit through the Canal (barely).  It's long length aids with speed, which is the highest maximum of any "real" BB.  (Some folks view the Iowa class as battle cruisers, but there is no end to that argument.)

PERSIAN GULF. CIRCA 1987

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 06, 2024, 03:43:16 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/UlIrGqq.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 06, 2024, 04:49:07 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/6YyLXH8.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 06, 2024, 09:12:25 PM
most???

so, some were filmed on MArs?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 08, 2024, 08:24:48 AM

Project MOOSE
MOOSE, originally an acronym for Man Out Of Space Easiest and later changed to the more professional-sounding Manned Orbital Operations Safety Equipment, was a proposed emergency bail-out system capable of bringing a single astronaut safely back to Earth from orbit. The system required the astronaut to exit his spacecraft in a specially-designed suit, climb into a plastic bag filled with insulating foam, and reenter the atmosphere protected by a thin heat shield.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 08, 2024, 09:01:53 AM
most???

so, some were filmed on MArs?
For realism. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 08, 2024, 09:23:00 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/6XkRR8g.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 08, 2024, 10:42:37 AM
most???

so, some were filmed on MArs?
You beat me to it @FearlessF (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=10) , when I read that I was about to type the same thing.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 08, 2024, 11:19:48 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/N87pEWH.png)
USS MIDWAY & USS IOWA

Interesting size comparison, the Midway is basically the size of Nimitz class carriers.  The Iowa was designed to fit through the Canal (barely).  It's long length aids with speed, which is the highest maximum of any "real" BB.  (Some folks view the Iowa class as battle cruisers, but there is no end to that argument.)

PERSIAN GULF. CIRCA 1987
For historians and history buffs interested in naval history the Battleship / Battlecruiser / Fast Battleship distinction provides fodder for endless debates.  

Essentially, the Iowa Class Battleships were designed as Battleships but deployed as Battlecruisers.  

Trying to explain the contours of the debate without actually taking sides:
Battlecruisers were first developed and deployed at a time when Battleships were very large, very heavily armed, very heavily armored, and due to the enormous weight of all their guns and armor, very slow.  At that time, Cruisers served a different role, they were not nearly as heavily armed nor armored but they were much faster. 

Battleships of all navies were generally designed to a standard known as the "Balanced Battleship".  This refers to a ship having enough armor to withstand hits from it's own shells.  As guns got larger and more powerful it took enormous quantities of steel armor to accomplish that goal which meant that Battleships got heavier and weight retards speed.  

The original Battlecruiser concept was to build a ship that essentially:

This was accomplished by pairing Battleship sized guns (or sometimes slightly smaller or less of them than a Battleship) with usually more armor than a Cruiser but significantly less than a Battleship).  

One function of such ships was to serve as "Cruiser Killers" a role for which Battleships were not well suited since Cruisers could easily outrun Battleships.  

In practice, when the Royal Navy and the Imperial German Navy slugged it out off the coast of Jutland in 1916 both navies determined that the total number of big guns brought to the fight was crucial so they sent their Battlecruisers along with their Battleships in order to maximize their total firepower.  It did that but it also resulted in a number of Battlecruisers taking magazine hits and exploding.  

During the interwar years a succession of international treaties limited and governed Battleship design and construction.  The USN completed WWI era Colorado Class in the early 1920's then didn't build a new Battleship until the North Carolina Class in the late 1930's.  The Colorado Class ships could only manage 21 kn while the North Carolina Class ships could achieve 28 kn but that was still well below Cruiser speed (about 33 kn).  The North Carolina Class (mostly) stuck to the treaty limitations and it simply wasn't possible to build a balanced Battleship with 16" guns that could go much faster than that.  Actually, the North Carolina ships were not "balanced Battleships".  They had been designed to carry 14" guns and in that iteration they would have been but then the Japanese pulled out of the treaty system and the US invoked an "escalator clause" that permitted the construction of ships with 16" guns.  The ships were upgunned to 16" too late in the process to also uparmor them to maintain balance.  

Next the USN built the South Dakota Class ships which were still at least theoretically "treaty" ships in that they more-or-less stuck to the treaty limitations.  They were a slightly more well armored and otherwise slight improvement on the North Carolina Class but they were a hair slower at 27.5 kn.  

By the time the Iowa Class design was finalized they treaty system had completely dissolved so the designers didn't even have to pretend to comply with the treaties.  It is an odd situation.  The Iowa Class were designed as Balanced Battleships but they were built as something less than that.  They were designed to carry 16" guns and have sufficient armor to withstand hits from 16" shells.  However, during the design and construction of the Iowa Class, the USN Bureau of Ordinance designed what was called a "Super Heavy Shell" for the 16" guns and the new shell had greater hitting power so by the time the Iowa Class ships were completed they carried guns that their own armor couldn't withstand.  


The Montana Class which was the next class after the Iowa Class and was actually authorized but never built would have returned to a Balanced Battleship concept on a larger hull (machinery design was used for the pictured Midway Class Carrier) with 12 instead of nine of the 16" guns and sufficient armor to withstand even the newest 16" shells but that came at a cost in speed as the Montana Class would have returned to the speed of the earlier North Carolina and South Dakota Class ships which would have made them too slow to operate as carrier escorts which is why they were not constructed.  The USN realized by then that they didn't need Battleships to slug it out with Japanese and German Battleships, what they needed was carrier escorts.  That raises a whole separate question of why the Iowa's were built?  A  Baltimore Class Heavy Cruiser had more than half the antiaircraft capability on about 20% of the tonnage so there is a credible argument that the USN in 1945 would have been vastly better off if each Iowa Class Battleship had instead been replaced by multiple Baltimore Class Heavy Cruisers which could have been built for the same resources and crewed with the same sailors.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on April 08, 2024, 12:56:10 PM
Well, I'd consider that the entire "Battleship" era lasted maybe what?  50 years really?  Depends on when you consider the first real battleships.  Probably more like 30 years, not sure anything made in the 1800's should count.  

So since it was so short, maybe you just call a battleship by what it's navy calls it.  It's kinda like a swimsuit.  Know the difference between a woman's swimsuit and underwear?  A gentlemen's agreement.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 08, 2024, 08:42:46 PM
'The night before the championship fight, I bought my wife Phyllis a powder-blue negligee. I was confident. I was on a nine-bout winning streak and I bought the negligee and I gave it to her in Cleveland the night before the fight. I said, 'Tomorrow night I want you to wear this in bed because tomorrow night you're going to be sleeping with the heavyweight champion of the world.' She said, 'OK, no problem.' After the fight I came back to the hotel - I lost the fight - and walked into the hotel room. And there she is sitting on the end of the bed with the powder-blue negligee, and she says to me, 'Am I going to Ali's room or is he coming to mine?' She had real good sense of humor.'

- Chuck Wepner


(https://i.imgur.com/xfquEnC.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 08, 2024, 10:30:35 PM
From the Battle of Little Big Horn
“I had sung the war song, I had smelt power smoke, my heart was bad--I was like one who has no mind. I rushed in and took their flag; my pony fell dead as I took it. I cut the thong that bound me; I jumped up and brained the sword flag man with my war club, and ran back to our line with the flag. I was mad, I got a fresh pony and rushed back shooting, cutting and slashing. This pony was shot and I got another. This time I saw Little Hair (Tom Custer)--I remembered my vow, I was crazy; I feared nothing. I knew nothing would hurt me for I had my white weasel tail on. I didn't know how many I killed trying to get at him. He knew me. I laughed at him and yelled at him. I saw his mouth move but there was so much noise I couldn't hear his voice. He was afraid. When I got near enough I shot him with my revolver. My gun was gone. I didn't know where. I got back on my pony and rode off. I was satisfied and sick of fighting."
Itoηagaju (Rain-in-the-Face) Lakota , 1835-1905


(https://i.imgur.com/cuNirip.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 09, 2024, 09:34:36 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

NASA Announces the "Mercury Seven" (1959)
Project Mercury was the first successful manned spaceflight program of the US. It ran from 1959 through 1963 with the goal of putting a man in orbit around the Earth. The first Americans to venture into space were drawn from a group of 110 military pilots chosen for their flight test experience and their satisfaction of certain physical requirements; seven were selected to be astronauts in April 1959 and were quickly dubbed the "Mercury Seven."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 09, 2024, 09:57:56 AM
A Spitfire carrying two casks of beer under its wings after leaving from RAF Tangmere, UK, in 1944, inbound to Normandy. This comical practice began shortly after the D-Day invasions to supply thirsty troops in Europe. Spitfires, P-51s, and Typhoons all dashed across the channel to make these well-appreciated runs.

(https://i.imgur.com/aFvRYxP.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 10, 2024, 10:02:55 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First Arbor Day Celebrated (1872)
Generally observed on the last Friday in April, Arbor Day is an unofficial US holiday designated as a day for planting trees. The holiday was founded by agriculturist Julius Sterling Morton, a Nebraska resident who believed that the prairies were in need of more trees to serve as windbreaks, hold moisture in the soil, and provide lumber for housing. To this end, he proposed that a specific day be set aside for the planting of trees.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 11, 2024, 08:56:56 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Palm Sunday Tornado Outbreak (1965)
During the Palm Sunday Tornado Outbreak of 1965, as many as 78 tornados—47 of which were confirmed—hit the midwestern US over the course of 11 hours. Affecting Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, and Iowa, the outbreak resulted in 271 deaths, thousands of injuries, and widespread damage. In Indiana alone, it killed 137 people and injured more than 1,200, becoming the deadliest tornado outbreak in the state's history.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 12, 2024, 08:58:47 AM
FACT OF THE DAY:

Lake Taupo was the source of the world’s largest known volcanic eruption in the last 70,000 years. It is estimated that its violent birth spewed 15,000 times the volume of material ejected when Mount Saint Helens in Washington State erupted in 1980.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 12, 2024, 11:08:52 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Euro Disney Resort, Now Disneyland Paris, Opens (1992)
Disneyland Paris is a resort complex located in the suburbs of Paris, France. Opened in 1992 as Euro Disney Resort, it features two theme parks, an entertainment district, and seven hotels. Initially, park attendance, hotel occupancy, and revenues fell below projections, but things began to turn around in 1995, with Euro Disney S.C.A. reporting its first quarterly profit. Today, the resort is one of Europe's leading tourist destinations.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 12, 2024, 11:15:32 AM
'The night before the championship fight, I bought my wife Phyllis a powder-blue negligee. I was confident. I was on a nine-bout winning streak and I bought the negligee and I gave it to her in Cleveland the night before the fight. I said, 'Tomorrow night I want you to wear this in bed because tomorrow night you're going to be sleeping with the heavyweight champion of the world.' She said, 'OK, no problem.' After the fight I came back to the hotel - I lost the fight - and walked into the hotel room. And there she is sitting on the end of the bed with the powder-blue negligee, and she says to me, 'Am I going to Ali's room or is he coming to mine?' She had real good sense of humor.'

- Chuck Wepner
The Bayonne Bleeder

Chuck Wepner stood 6ft 5in tall, with broad shoulders and heavily knuckled hands; bone calluses serve as reminders of a life spent punching.

His vocation as a fighter scarred other parts of his body, too.

"I was a big bleeder. I had 328 stitches in my career. My nose was broken nine times in 16 years. And, uh, it never fazed me, you know?" Wepner tells BBC Sport, with a shrug.

In fact, so likely was his face to suffer injury in the ring that he eventually adopted the nickname others gave him as an insult.

The Bayonne Bleeder - Bayonne being the New Jersey town that Wepner still calls home - was a fighter who lived up to his billing.
So maybe it was fitting that the most famous bout of his career came soaked in claret.

"Tony Perez was the referee for my fight with Muhammad Ali," remembers Wepner of their 1975 meeting.

"After I got knocked down. he says to me: 'Chuck, you're bleeding too much.'

"I said, 'No way, give me this round. Let me finish the fight, I'm all right.' So Tony says: 'OK Chuck, how many fingers do I have up?'

"I look at his hand and say: 'How many guesses do I get?'"

Despite Wepner's protests and to the dismay of the febrile, 15,000-strong crowd inside Ohio's Richfield Coliseum, the referee stopped the fight just 19 seconds shy of the end of round 15.

From WIKI

He had formerly boxed while a member of the United States Marine Corps, and had worked as a bouncer before turning pro.[11] He was the New Jersey state heavyweight boxing champion, but after losing bouts to George Foreman (by cut eye stoppage in three) and Sonny Liston (by technical knockout in nine) many boxing fans thought that his days as a contender were numbered. After the match with Liston, Wepner needed 72 stitches in his face.[12] After his retirement, Wepner stated that Liston was the hardest puncher he ever fought.[13]
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 12, 2024, 11:23:21 AM
A Spitfire carrying two casks of beer under its wings after leaving from RAF Tangmere, UK, in 1944, inbound to Normandy. This comical practice began shortly after the D-Day invasions to supply thirsty troops in Europe. Spitfires, P-51s, and Typhoons all dashed across the channel to make these well-appreciated runs.

(https://i.imgur.com/aFvRYxP.png)
To hell with IKE/Patton/Monty these are the guys allied soldiers looked up to - literally & figuratively
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 13, 2024, 10:09:02 AM
Honor Among Thieves: The Pirate Code

In the second half of the 17th century, buccaneers began operating under a set of rules that eventually became known as Articles of Agreement, or the Pirate's Code. While the rules generally varied from one captain to another, most contained provisions for discipline, specifications for each crewmate's share of treasure, and rules regarding compensation for injury.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2024, 01:32:31 PM
The Salvage of USS Oklahoma after the Attack on Pearl Harbor - (navalhistoria.com) (https://navalhistoria.com/the-salvage-of-uss-oklahoma/?fbclid=IwAR1wfnFgpa3MVUmUNEqJIhHumCoVoHL3QkuoyKtNqhVTVMyobzw1zGYEH2k_aem_ASNvn25wlML6gxtZqDxRFrElKOI7U4gI4inBQEisaaKplJOHNkJQV3HwrMzVLfASqzrtspvoZKXZtAKJpP4poxqb)

(https://i.imgur.com/riN8a9Y.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 13, 2024, 02:25:26 PM
Vought XF8U-3 Crusader III a supersonic air superiority fighter designed to succeed the F-8 Crusader and as a competitor to the McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II.

First flight of the Crusader III was June 2nd, 1958, she was designed for blazing fast speeds up to Mach 2.7 however the prototypes only ever reached Mach 2.39. A point in this aircraft's favor in competing with the F-4 was that the XF8U-3 could out maneuver the F-4 and NASA pilots routinely defeated F-4's in mock dogfights. Points in the Phantom II's favor were a much larger payload and the fact that the F-4 was also capable of the ground attack mission, the Crusader III was not. Furthermore the Phantom had a Radar Intercept Officer to guide the AIM-7 Sparrow missiles, this was often overwhelming for the single pilot of the Crusader III. Alas the XF8U-3 was not to be and sadly all 5 aircraft built were scrapped.
(https://i.imgur.com/VMIKr06.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 13, 2024, 04:08:04 PM
Honor Among Thieves: The Pirate Code

In the second half of the 17th century, buccaneers began operating under a set of rules that eventually became known as Articles of Agreement, or the Pirate's Code. While the rules generally varied from one captain to another, most contained provisions for discipline, specifications for each crewmate's share of treasure, and rules regarding compensation for injury.
Sounds like Defense Contractors and their canards in congress picking over the carcass of what's left of a once robust taxpaying public
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 14, 2024, 08:59:55 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Donner Party Sets Out on Ill-Fated Journey from Illinois to California (1846)
The Donner Party was a group of families from Illinois and Iowa that set out for California following a little-used, supposedly shorter, route across Utah. The shortcut only tired and delayed the party, and while recovering at what is now Donner Lake in the Sierra Nevada, the group was trapped by early snow. Many died, several while trying to get help; some reportedly resorted to cannibalism. Rescuers reached the survivors in February 1847.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2024, 09:27:22 AM
The Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem is not a mosque.  It's purpose is not fully understood.  It is quite something to see of course.

The Dome of the Rock (Qubbat al-Sakhra) (article) | Khan Academy (https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/ap-art-history/west-and-central-asia-apahh/west-asia/a/the-dome-of-the-rock-qubbat-al-sakhra)

There is a mosque on the hill here called al Aqsa.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2024, 07:37:44 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/ry6Ycsv.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 16, 2024, 09:02:12 AM
Martin Luther King Jr. writes ‘Letter From Birmingham Jail’

On April 16, 1963, Martin Luther King Jr. wrote his “Letter from Birmingham Jail” in which the civil rights activist responded to a group of local clergymen who had criticized him for leading street protests; King defended his tactics, writing, “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.”
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 16, 2024, 11:08:30 AM
May 1922: 78-year-old Robert T. Lincoln (son of Abraham Lincoln) is helped up the steps at the dedication of the Lincoln Memorial in Washington D.C -Marvelous History

(https://i.imgur.com/R7sDy74.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 16, 2024, 03:23:51 PM
The Boeing Bird of Prey was a trailblazing stealth aircraft secretly developed by the US military between 1992 to 1999 at Area 51. Its extraterrestrial appearance would no doubt be responsible for UFO sightings occurring at the time.

https://thewarzone.blog/the-boeing-bird-of-prey-remains.../

(https://i.imgur.com/SYfIaB5.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2024, 07:53:22 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/w9YKqyl.png)

Today in 1952 the first prototype B-52 bomber makes its maiden flight from the Boeing works in Seattle.  Plans for the bomber had been started in 1945 as a huge propeller bomber for the ongoing war against Japan.
The design was altered to accommodate jet engines and a large bomb capability to accommodate free fall nuclear bombs.
The bomber started service with the US Air Force in 1955, making their first bombing runs in Vietnam in the 1960s. Due to upgrades in its airframe and electronics, the latest H class (built in 1963) should
still be flying well into the 2030s.
Pictured is a B-52 next to the B-17 Flying Fortress of WW2, there are just 17 years between the designs. In the background is a B-29 bomber also of WW2 fame.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2024, 07:54:49 AM
I am somewhat surprised that commercial jet aircraft of today look pretty much as they did 60 years ago, the main difference externally being fewer and high bypass engines.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2024, 08:40:21 AM
means original designs were well done?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2024, 08:40:42 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Ill-Fated Apollo 13 Spacecraft Returns to Earth Safely (1970)
Less than a year after the first lunar landing, Apollo 13 departed for the moon. Two days into the mission, an oxygen tank exploded, severely damaging the spacecraft's electrical system, and the landing had to be aborted. Despite limited power, loss of cabin heat, a shortage of potable water, and the need to improvise a carbon dioxide removal system, the craft returned safely to Earth. The immortal line from the mission—"Houston, we have a problem"—is a misquote.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2024, 09:27:19 AM
April 12, 1967, Mick Jagger was punched in the face by an airport official in France. Things had gotten heated after Mick got angry because the band was being searched for drugs, which led them miss their flight.

(https://i.imgur.com/i1WYSG0.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2024, 09:28:10 AM
means original designs were well done?
They were, mostly, at least the 707.  I'm sure in 1965, most of us here would have envisioned something quite different in 2024.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 17, 2024, 09:29:28 AM
April 12, 1967, Mick Jagger was punched in the face by an airport official in France. Things had gotten heated after Mick got angry because the band was being searched for drugs, which led them miss their flight.
Prolly the father/boy friend of a groupie he shagged
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 17, 2024, 09:37:36 AM
December 17, 1969 - Television history was made when Tiny Tim (no not the little guy from A Christmas Carol) and Miss Vicki Budinger were married on "The Tonight Show" with Johnny Carson. Over 45 million people tuned in to The Tonight Show to watch the marriage.

(https://i.imgur.com/Lp76uA2.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 17, 2024, 09:54:28 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/QIGL1Du.png)

I didn't fact check this.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2024, 09:52:58 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/LVvqcMa.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2024, 10:16:38 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/tN2GTLs.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2024, 10:21:03 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/ozxXDM5.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 18, 2024, 10:32:03 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/tN2GTLs.png)
How many does Afghanistan have?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2024, 10:51:17 AM
I doubt they have any, they might have a handful of AFVs perhaps from the Soviet era.  I found this on line.  The term "tanks" in the chart includes armored fighting vehicles which aren't tanks.  We may have left behind a few Bradley AFVs, I don't know.

. The Afghan National Army did not have Abrams tanks. They had one tank battalion, equipped with a grand total of twelve old T-55 and T-62 tanks. Those dozen old warhorses will indeed now be in Taliban hands.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2024, 11:42:24 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/jU4Elp4.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 18, 2024, 12:31:10 PM
4th person is a little lower, out of frame
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 18, 2024, 01:31:18 PM
A 12-ton lead-and-rubber-shielded cockpit with windows 10-12 inches thick protected the flight crew from the otherwise lethal amount of radiation emanating from the reactor hanging in the bomb bay. Special water pockets installed aft of the cockpit also absorbed radiation.

Among the most audaciously hazardous concepts of the 1950s was the notion of installing an operational nuclear reactor inside an aircraft, a venture pursued by both the Soviet Union and the USA. The NB-36 ‘Crusader’ epitomized this daunting venture, representing a potential ecological catastrophe each time it ascended. Nevertheless, it managed to execute 47 flights. Its purpose was to evaluate the viability of managing a nuclear reactor during flight, serving as a preliminary step towards creating a genuine atomic-powered aircraft.

The NB-36 carried a three-megawatt reactor into the skies, and due to the extensive shielding necessary to protect its crew, it became the aircraft with the highest quantity of lead integrated into its structure, with the cockpit’s rubber and lead shielding alone amounting to eleven tons.


(https://i.imgur.com/61nRHJs.png)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2024, 02:01:53 PM
It never used the reactor power to propel itself, but the reactor was active at times in testing.

I'm not sure of the plan to convert heat from nuclear fission to propellers.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 18, 2024, 02:12:25 PM
steam engines?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 18, 2024, 02:27:14 PM
I'd guess early thermoionic conversions, which are not that efficient.  A steam turbine driving a generator would seem far far too heavy.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2024, 06:54:42 AM
The first Church’s Fried Chicken opened on April 17, 1952 in San Antonio, Texas across from the Alamo. It was founded by retired chicken incubator salesman George W. Church Sr. and was originally named Church’s Fried Chicken To-Go.
Initially, Church’s was a single walk-up establishment that only sold fried chicken, and two pieces of chicken and a roll cost 49 cents. Church’s added fries and jalapeños to its menu in 1955. To allow customers to see their food prepared while they waited, Church Sr. designed the kitchen with the fryers next to the takeout window.
The company had four restaurants by the time of Church Sr.’s death in 1956. After his death, family members took over operations.
In 1962, with Church Sr.’s son Bill Church Jr. as top executive, there were eight restaurants in San Antonio. To begin expanding and franchising in 1965, Church Jr. and his brother Richard developed a signature marinade that could be prepared at any location.
Church’s began its international expansion in 1979 and the first location was in Japan. Afterwards, locations in Canada, Malaysia, Mexico and Taiwan were opened under the trade name “Texas Chicken”.
Today, Church’s has more than 1,700 locations worldwide.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 19, 2024, 08:34:09 AM
don't remember ever having Church's chicken
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 19, 2024, 08:34:26 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Battles of Lexington and Concord (1775)
The Battles of Lexington and Concord were the opening engagements of the American Revolution. While marching from Boston to Concord to seize colonists' military stores, a British force of 700 was met at Lexington by 77 local minutemen. After a brief exchange of shots, the outnumbered colonists fell back. The British continued on to Concord, where they were defeated by a militia of about 500.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2024, 08:54:31 AM
don't remember ever having Church's chicken
It's interesting how many chains for fried chicken there are around here.  Zaxby's is mostly chicken, Church's, Bojangles, Popeye's, and of course KFC and CFA.  Of the bunch, only CFA is decent, in my repertoire.  I tried chicken and waffles recently (at a motel restaurant) and found it ... odd, and the chicken was not good at all.


Southern-fried fast food chains - Atlanta Magazine
 (https://www.atlantamagazine.com/best-fried-chicken/southern-fried-fast-food-chains/)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 19, 2024, 09:06:46 AM
Church's, Bojangles, Popeye's, and of course KFC and CFA

never tried the first 3.
haven't been to a KFC in well over 20 years, don't plan to go back
my daughters wanted to try the CFA when it opened here - I won't go back

If I'm gonna have chicken out, I go to a bar with a broaster and have broasted chicken with a few beers 

perhaps that's why I don't like fast food - no beer
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2024, 09:21:14 AM
The local Korean Fried Chicken place here is terrific, and shows what fried chicken can be.  It's not "cheap".  These are the best wings I've ever had by far, and the mac and cheese is incredible, to me, it comes with bacon bits and kimchi.

Mukja Korean Fried Chicken - Downtown, Atlanta, GA (mukjaatl.com) (https://mukjaatl.com/)

(https://i.imgur.com/hddZaoK.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 19, 2024, 09:59:10 AM
maybe I'll try them some day
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on April 19, 2024, 10:08:52 AM
Korean fried chicken is quite tasty.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2024, 10:38:21 AM
don't remember ever having Church's chicken
There were a lot of them in Chicago, but all South Side so I've never had it either.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 19, 2024, 10:40:26 AM
it's obviously a southern thang
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2024, 10:46:48 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/WgwgYLm.png)

The "history" of conspiracy theories is weird to me.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2024, 10:51:51 AM
it's obviously a southern thang
The South Side of Chicago is not a Southern thang.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: LetsGoPeay on April 19, 2024, 11:57:29 AM
Chick-Fil-A is massively overrated. 

It's exclusively an eastern Indiana/western Ohio thing, but Lee's Chicken is fantastic.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2024, 11:59:22 AM
Chick-Fil-A is massively overrated.

It's exclusively an eastern Indiana/western Ohio thing, but Lee's Chicken is fantastic. 
Exclusively?  We have them here too!!!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2024, 12:20:55 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/6gSI3a9.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2024, 12:27:44 PM
At first, I thought he was referring to CFA, which we of course have here.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2024, 12:34:52 PM
Chick-Fil-A is massively overrated.

It's exclusively an eastern Indiana/western Ohio thing, but Lee's Chicken is fantastic. 
I've heard good things. Nearest one to us is in Ocala. Not convenient at all, honestly. 3+ hours.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2024, 12:40:55 PM
I certainly wouldn't drive out of my way for a CFA.  I wouldn't call them massively over rated.  I think their sandwiches are fine, their service is excellent, on a completely different level from any fast food place I've tried.  When traveling, it would be my first pick.

We have one here a couple blocks away and I have not dined there in ages.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 19, 2024, 12:48:10 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/6gSI3a9.png)
That's a bizarre map. How the heck did they end up in BC? 

It reminds me of a cajun restaurant that existed in Lafayette when I was a freshman at Purdue. It was superb. And the reason it was superb was that it really was authentic. Turns out there were only two locations--New Orleans and Lafayette. They opened the Lafayette location when the owner's kid went to Purdue, IIRC. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 19, 2024, 12:54:56 PM
I certainly wouldn't drive out of my way for a CFA.  I wouldn't call them massively over rated.  I think their sandwiches are fine, their service is excellent, on a completely different level from any fast food place I've tried.  When traveling, it would be my first pick.

We have one here a couple blocks away and I have not dined there in ages.
It's a good sandwich. I like the waffle fries. Nothing mind-blowing, but it's good. 

When the first CFA in California opened, it was in Irvine and I lived right around the corner at the time. It did draw QUITE the crowd. 

One thing I'll say is that CFA is very annoying to the CA locals with this "not open Sundays" stuff. What is this, 1874? Nobody here is closed on Sunday!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2024, 12:57:33 PM
When the first CFA in California opened, it was in Irvine and I lived right around the corner at the time. It did draw QUITE the crowd.
One thing I'll say is that CFA is very annoying to the CA locals with this "not open Sundays" stuff. What is this, 1874? Nobody here is closed on Sunday!
They are privately owned of course and the owning family thinks workers should be home with their families on Sunday, or at a Braves game.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 19, 2024, 01:07:14 PM
They are privately owned of course and the owning family thinks workers should be home with their families on Sunday, or at a Braves game.
Yeah, it's their business and their right to run it how they see fit. That policy just sticks out in a place like California.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2024, 01:14:19 PM
I was showing one of my wife's old friends around where we live, walking, and we happened by the Chick-Fil-A and he went into a tirade about them.  It was not unexpected, I knew this guy goes all out to be "woke".  (He's the one who told me in 2020 that Trump was going to kick all the Jews out of the US.  He's nominally Jewish.  I asked if that would include his daughter.  He didn't understand my point.)

I just let him go on about it, I now how he is, it would drive me crazt except I don't care.  But according to him, CFA doesn't serve gays OR black folks, they won't let black folks in the restaurant, and he would NEVER go there.  Now, OK, if you don't like a place, fine, just say "Hey, I don't eat there because of X."  But he went on for another three blocks as we walked back.  To me, it's signaling, not really a something.

I didn't even comment on the "don't serve blacks" quip, I could have pointed inside that CFA, but I didn't.  Heck, there were black folks eating outside with CFA bags in front of them.  Fortunately for me, this dude lives in Cincy.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2024, 01:16:05 PM
Sounds like an asshole. I'd kick him to the curb.

Hobby Lobby is closed on Sundays.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 19, 2024, 01:18:26 PM
Sounds like an asshole. I'd kick him to the curb.

Hobby Lobby is closed on Sundays.
I know, but their chicken sucks, so I don't let it bother me. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2024, 01:24:03 PM
Sounds like an asshole. I'd kick him to the curb.
My wife has a long history with him and his wife (who is recently deceased).  And we rarely see him, my wife knows I really can't stand him.  Well, that's not quite true, once I understood who he was, I just mosty ignore whatever he says.  water, duck, etc.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2024, 01:25:22 PM
Oldest ever genetic data from a human relative found in 2 million year old fossilized teeth. Genetic information from an ancient human relative have been extracted making it the oldest such data recovered to date. This remarkable discovery involved analyzing protein sequences from several Paranthropus robustus tooth fossils found in a South African Cave, dating back to around Two million years.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2024, 01:25:49 PM
You can always come up with an illness when he shows up again.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2024, 01:36:46 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Xi9pndN.png)

The old Sears building in Atlanta across from the old Ponce ballpark.  To the left of the Sears building was a Ford assembly plant, now it's lofts.  Thhe ballpark is a strip mall.  The trains are now the Beltline.  The Sears building is Ponce City Market.

(https://i.imgur.com/03UKwjr.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2024, 01:40:18 PM
When I was a kid, these were quite popular, and it was a treat for me to dine at one.  I could eat a lot of catfish.

(https://i.imgur.com/QQuNZKR.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on April 19, 2024, 02:02:42 PM
I'm cool with more businesses being closed on Sundays.  Less business, more time in parks.  Could be that the old-fashioned folks knew a little more than they're given credit for.

(https://i.imgur.com/6dvXQua.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2024, 02:40:03 PM
Car dealers are closed on Sundays in Illinois.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 19, 2024, 02:46:13 PM
I'm cool with more businesses being closed on Sundays.  Less business, more time in parks.  Could be that the old-fashioned folks knew a little more than they're given credit for.
I'm cool with more businesses being closed on days when their owners CHOOSE to be closed. 

I'm not cool with business being forced to be closed because of someone believing their deity will be offended by doing commerce on "his" day of the week. Blue laws are IMHO BS. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 19, 2024, 02:58:22 PM
I have no problem with companies closing on Sundays or weekends for that matter.

Mine is. Yours is.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 20, 2024, 02:32:59 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/wSnaLNe.png)

Solvay.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 20, 2024, 03:04:28 PM
In 1923, a photograph captured Henry Ford and Thomas Edison, Ford in cowboy attire, and Edison seated in a car. These iconic American inventors shared a close friendship that spanned their professional lives. Ford's initial connection with Edison stemmed from his role as chief engineer at the Edison Lighting Company. During his spare hours outside work commitments, Ford dedicated himself to constructing his inaugural automobile. This passion project eventually burgeoned into his own automotive enterprise, later becoming one of the foremost successful car manufacturers in the United States.

(https://i.imgur.com/jahvWVf.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on April 21, 2024, 11:18:52 AM
I think CFA being closed on Sunday actually drives more business their way. Something about not being able to have something when you want it. I read recently their locations far outsell their contemporaries. It also must make scheduling far easier. 

I could take it or leave it. Nobody eats there because it’s always packed. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 21, 2024, 11:27:50 AM
Nobody eats there because it’s always packed.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2024, 11:44:24 AM
In 2022, the leading quick service restaurant (QSR) chain in the United States by sales per unit was Chick-fil-A. The chicken chain reported approximately 6.71 million U.S. dollars in sales per unit that year. Raising Cane's placed second on the list with an average of 5.44 million U.S. dollars in sales per unit in 2022.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 21, 2024, 12:02:55 PM
folks love their chicken

how Tyson got big enough to buy Iowa Beef Processors
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2024, 12:21:27 PM
The thing often noted about CFA is their service, and in my experience, it is massively better than ANY other fast food operation.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 21, 2024, 12:40:06 PM
I think CFA being closed on Sunday actually drives more business their way. Something about not being able to have something when you want it. I read recently their locations far outsell their contemporaries. It also must make scheduling far easier.

I could take it or leave it. Nobody eats there because it’s always packed.
Regarding the bold, that very well may be true. 

Regarding the italics, I could see other factors in play. 

Various public chains which operate on a more pure franchisee model I think tend to lead to higher density of locations than Chick fil A (which is private). According to Wiki, CFA builds and owns its locations. I can say that locally I see the same with In n Out (also private), which I believe also builds and owns its locations. 

Keeping appropriate spacing between locations can lead IMHO to higher per-location sales numbers, and the locations being more crowded. 

For example, below are the locations near me for Chick-fil-A, In n Out, and McDonald's (for comparison):


(https://i.imgur.com/eFU2JQ4.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/IgM4yuN.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/85Xop4f.png)

I'm going to assume that this leads to higher per-store sales because there are fewer stores. 

Obviously McD's to InO is a direct comparison as burger joints, but I don't know of a good analog in this area for chicken-specific restaurants. We don't have a lot of Popeye's or KFC in my area, and Raising Cane's is relatively new to south OC as far as I can tell--I didn't see them popping up until maybe 3-4 years ago. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 21, 2024, 09:49:00 PM
I wouldn't stop at any of them
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2024, 07:14:59 AM
If we're driving somewhere we stop at a McDs for breakfast.  For lunch, it's a bit of a crap shoot.  If we're not in much of a hurry, I'll stop at Cracker Barrel though my wife is not much of a fan.  Otherwise I'll look for a CFA.  We did have lunch at a McDs on our last trip because nothing else in a small town looked reasonable.  I was astonished that it was $23 for two quarter pounder meals.  This was in a small north Georgia town with not much going on.  

There was a Huddle House across the street, I cannot recommend.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2024, 07:18:41 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/q2g0Tq9.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 22, 2024, 07:30:38 AM
I've seen that. It's pretty Gaudi.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2024, 07:31:55 AM
It amazes me seeing these old photos how there is apparently nothing around the site.  It is one of the most amazing buildings I've ever seen.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 22, 2024, 08:16:24 AM
We toured several of his buildings. Very unique architect.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2024, 08:35:08 AM
I agree, it was a neat thing to do in Barcelona.  That was where we walked 13 miles one day seeing "stuff", mostly his stuff.  We'd like to go back.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2024, 08:52:24 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/SNjkojz.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2024, 08:53:00 AM
Subaru has an interesting symbol as well.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2024, 09:01:33 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/9csABzS.png)

I think nearly all of our common vegetables and fruits have been massively "bred" for human consumption.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 22, 2024, 09:10:29 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First Earth Day Celebrated (1970)
The first Earth Day was organized in 1970 to promote ecological ideas, encourage respect for life on earth, and highlight growing concern over pollution of the soil, air, and water. Earth Day is now observed in more than 140 nations with outdoor performances, exhibits, street fairs, and television programs that focus on environmental issues. In 1990, Earth Day was marked by an "International Peace Climb,"
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2024, 09:13:19 AM
I remember that, I was in high school.  A few folks started up some club of ecology or something.  I don't think they actually DID anything.  Nixon signed the EPA into law.

I view most such Federal agencies in a dim light, but I will give the EPA some credit though obviously it has been very inefficient, it at least managed something, in contrast say with the Department of Education.  Or Energy.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 22, 2024, 03:28:58 PM
A Jewish family Karnofsky, who immigrated from Lithuania to the United States, took pity on the 7-year-old boy and brought him to their home.
There he stayed and spent the night in this Jewish family home, where for the first time in his life he was treated with kindness and tenderness.
When he went to bed, Mrs. Karnovski sang him Russian lullabies, which he sang with her.
Later he learned to sing and play several Russian and Jewish songs.
Over time, this boy became the adopted son of this family.
Mr. Karnofsky gave him money to buy his first musical instrument, as was the custom in Jewish families.
Later, when he became a professional musician and composer, he used these Jewish melodies in compositions such as St. James's Hospital and Go Down Moses.
The little boy grew up and wrote a book about this Jewish family, who adopted him in 1907. And proudly spoke Yiddish fluently.
In memory of this family and until the end of his life, he wore the Star of David and said that in this family he learned "to live a real life and determination."
This little boy's name was Louis Armstrong. This little boy was called Louis “Satchmo” Armstrong. Louis Armstrong proudly spoke fluent Yiddish and “Satchmo” is Yiddish for “big cheeks, a nickname some say was given to him by Mrs. Karnofsky!


(https://i.imgur.com/yxWyGRT.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 22, 2024, 03:58:49 PM
On 20 April 1944, U-1105, a modified Type VII-C German submarine, built at the Nordseewerke Shipyard at Emden, Germany, was launched to begin its brief and dramatic wartime career. U-1105 was one of fewer than ten submarines produced during the war outfitted with an experimental synthetic rubber skin designed to counter Allied sonar devices; the black rubber coating had earned it the nickname “Black Panther.” On its first mission in April of 1945 off Black Rock, Ireland, U-1105 disabled HMS Redmill, a 1300 ton TE Captain Class frigate, with two acoustic torpedoes killing 32 men. The Allied squadron searched for the elusive U-boat, but without success. The Black Panther’s short career ended with Germany’s surrender, and the vessel was eventually turned over to the United States Navy for study and experimentation in the U.S.

U-1105, now officially a war prize of the U.S. Navy, arrived at Portsmouth, New Hampshire in early 1946. In February, research on the unique rubber-tiled skin was initiated at the Naval Research Laboratory in Washington and at the MIT Acoustic Laboratory in Cambridge, Massachusetts. The ship was then ordered to be retained in a state of readiness for explosives testing. In the fall of 1949, U-1105 was towed into the Potomac River to an anchorage off Piney Point, Maryland. The ship was sunk using a new type of depth charge, and went down in 20 seconds in over 91 feet of water, with 65 feet of water over the conning tower. Although upright on the bottom, the pressure hull was cracked open by the explosion all the way around to the keel; but otherwise intact.

(https://i.imgur.com/pDBje5B.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 22, 2024, 04:58:40 PM
His mother was 40 years old when Jesse was born. Jesse grew up in a very rough home in Morgantown, West Virginia. Jesse’s father, who was mentally ill, was a violent man and was abusive to Jesse. At 13, his father died leaving his mother to take care of him and his brothers. At the time, things weren’t easy for Jesse and he didn’t think life held much hope for him. While Jesse had his struggles, he had dreams too. He wanted to be a ventriloquist and he found books on ventriloquism. He practiced with sock puppets and saved his money until he could get a real ventriloquist dummy. When he was old enough, he joined the military. The military recognized his talents and placed him in the entertainment corp. He toured the western Pacific Islands as a comedian as part of a G.I. variety show called "Stars and Gripes.” It was there he was able to share his talents with fellow soldiers. In 1946, he discharged with rank of Technician Grade 5, which was the equivalent then of a Corporal. During his military service, Jesse was awarded the World War II Victory Medal, Philippine Liberation Medal, Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal (with 4 bronze service stars), Army Good Conduct Medal, Marksman Badge (with an M1 Carbine) and Honorable Service lapel pin. Through his military service, Jesse gained confidence and found that he had a talent for making people laugh. In spite of his early struggles, Jesse became one of the best-loved characters of all time. For it was Jesse,...Jesse Don Knotts who brought us Barney Fife!



(https://i.imgur.com/b81JUAf.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 22, 2024, 05:21:25 PM
"In the early 1860s, Kady Brownell met Robert Brownell while working as a weaver. They married, but when the U.S. Civil War began in 1861, Robert joined the Union Army. Kady refused to be apart from him and served alongside him, earning respect from soldiers and permission from commanders. She went from a support role to a color bearer, challenging gender norms. After the war, she became the only woman to receive Union Army discharge papers, receiving a pension and joining the Grand Army of the Republic."

(https://i.imgur.com/QpDOe2b.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2024, 08:54:58 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/XahJW3d.png)

Cincinnati's Music Hall is quite a bit more impressive, and was built in 1878.  It's worth seeing if you're there.  Atlanta's is "modern", some criticize the acoustics oddly enough, and still looks just like this.  I think the acoustics in Cincy are better.


(https://i.imgur.com/0jlvsZl.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 23, 2024, 09:27:29 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Battle of Clontarf (1014)
The Battle of Clontarf was a decisive battle fought between Irish forces under the high king of Ireland, Brian Boru, and a Viking army formed by Sitric, king of the Dublin Norse. Brian's forces defeated the Vikings at Clontarf, near Dublin, but he was killed shortly thereafter by fleeing Norsemen. Brian's victory broke Viking power in Ireland, but, without a king, the country split into small, separate kingdoms that then fought one another.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 24, 2024, 09:02:00 AM
The Titanic's chief baker nonchalantly stepped off the stern of the sinking liner and calmly paddled around until dawn. After he was rescued, he was back at work within days. Experts note that he survived history's greatest maritime disaster by getting completely drunk.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 24, 2024, 09:21:59 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Hubble Space Telescope Launched (1990)
The Hubble Space Telescope is the most sophisticated optical observatory ever placed into orbit around Earth, able to view star material some 10 to 12 billion light years away. Because it is above Earth's obscuring atmosphere, it can obtain images that are much brighter, clearer, and more detailed than ground-based telescope images. Although a defect in the primary mirror initially caused it to produce fuzzy images, a 1993 shuttle mission fixed this.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 24, 2024, 09:40:53 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/nm3IxmA.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 25, 2024, 09:08:48 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

La Marseillaise, French National Anthem, Is Composed (1792)
Written and composed by French army officer Claude Joseph Rouget de Lisle in 1792, La Marseillaise was adopted in 1795 as France's first anthem. Although it was then banned by Napoleon I, Louis XVIII, and Napoleon III, it was restored as France's national anthem in 1879. The evocative lyrics and recognizable tune of La Marseillaise have led to its use as a revolutionary anthem and have inspired many pieces of classical music and pop culture.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 26, 2024, 08:22:31 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Tanganyika and Zanzibar Merge to Form Tanzania (1964)
Located in central East Africa, Tanzania has been inhabited by humans or their ancestors perhaps longer than any other place on Earth, with hominid fossils discovered there dating back over two million years. The country of Tanzania is a more recent development, forming in 1964 with the merger of two newly independent republics—Tanganyika and Zanzibar. The former leaders of Tanganyika and Zanzibar then became Tanzania's first president and vice president.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 26, 2024, 09:02:46 AM
TODAY IN HISTORY

1986 - World's worst nuclear disaster: The fourth reactor at Chernobyl nuclear power station in the Soviet Union explodes, 31 die and radioactive contamination reaches much of Western Europe.

2005 - Under international pressure, Syria withdraws the last of its 14,000 troop military garrison in Lebanon, ending its 29-year military domination of the country
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 26, 2024, 09:15:13 AM
pretty impressive

14,000 dominated an entire country
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 26, 2024, 12:35:59 PM
http://www.spartanjerseys.com/michigan-state-football-jersey-helmet/winged-helmet/
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2024, 01:14:46 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/T1UE86D.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 26, 2024, 03:46:02 PM
Source? prolly contrived  but many jobs with liveable wages would be safe back then for at least 25-30 yrs more that are probably now gone forever
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 27, 2024, 10:00:54 AM
Frank Zamboni was born in 1901, in Eureka, UT, to Italian immigrant parents. In 1920, the family moved to the harbor district of Los Angeles, CA, where Frank and his younger brother, Lawrence later opened an ice-making plant in nearby Paramount. By 1940, with household ownership of refrigerators and freezers on the rise, the Zamboni brothers decided to use their remaining refrigeration equipment to open Iceland, a skating rink in Paramount, which is today a charitable enterprise of the NHL's Los Angeles Kings, the "L.A. Kings Iceland in Paramount".

It was at the Iceland rink that Frank Zamboni created a machine that could resurface ice to a completely smooth and shimmering state. A task that used to take five men ninety minutes to perform could now be done by one man in just fifteen minutes. The machines are known today simply as Zambonis. It took nine years to develop the Zamboni and Frank’s son, Richard has said that "One of the reasons he stuck with it was that everyone told him he was crazy.” After seeing the machine, figure skating legend Sonja Henie ordered two, as did the Chicago Blackhawks of the NHL.

Zamboni applied for a patent in 1949 and obtained it in 1953, thus Frank J. Zamboni & Co. was opened in Paramount. In 2012, Zamboni sold their 10,000th unit to the NHL's Montreal Canadiens. Frank Zamboni passed away in Long Beach, CA, in 1988 at the age of eighty-seven but his name lives on.


(https://i.imgur.com/6mObJvJ.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 28, 2024, 07:37:14 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Assassination of Conrad of Montferrat, King of Jerusalem (1192)
Conrad of Montferrat was a northern Italian nobleman and one of the major participants in the Third Crusade. In 1189, he joined Guy of Lusignan at the siege of Akko, but a year later he sought to displace Guy as king of Jerusalem. To establish a claim to the crown, he married Isabella, daughter of Amalric I. In 1192, Conrad was acknowledged as king, but a few days later he was assassinated, and the royal title passed to the two later husbands of his widow.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 28, 2024, 09:06:40 AM
Dirt Farmer didn't you do the Zamboni bio not long ago?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 28, 2024, 09:10:42 AM
no recollection
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 28, 2024, 09:14:38 AM
        1945 Benito Mussolini executed

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 29, 2024, 07:56:37 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
WWII: Operation Manna Begins (1945)
During WWII, the Royal Air Force delivered 6,680 tons of food into parts of the German-occupied Netherlands, with the acquiescence of the occupying forces, to feed starving Dutch citizens suffering from a famine that ultimately claimed 18,000 lives. Operation Manna, as it was called, was named for the food that the Book of Exodus says miraculously appeared for the Israelites in the wilderness. The mission ended on May 8, when Germany's surrender ended the war in Europe.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 30, 2024, 08:24:20 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Fall of Saigon (1975)
On April 30, 1975, Saigon, the largest city in Vietnam and the capital of South Vietnam, was captured by the National Liberation Front and the People's Army of Vietnam. The event marked the end of the Vietnam War (1955-1975) and the reunification of Vietnam under communist rule. The city lost its status as the country's capital and was renamed
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 30, 2024, 10:59:58 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

1789 George Washington is inaugurated as the first President of the United States of America at Federal Hall in NYC

1933 American country singer and songwriter Willie Nelson was born.

1952 Mr Potato Head is 1st toy advertised on television

1945 German dictator Adolf Hitler and his wife, Eva Braun, committed suicide in a bunker in Berlin.

*Underlined indicates order of importance
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 01, 2024, 07:27:36 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

1924 German automobile manufacturers Daimler-Motoren-Gesellschaft and Benz & Cie begin their first joint venture (later merge into Mercedes-Benz)

1931 Empire State Building opens in New York City - world's tallest building until the World Trade Center in 1970

1941 Orson Welles's Citizen Kane, considered by many critics to be the greatest film ever made, premiered in New York City.

1991 Rickey Henderson stole the 939th base of his career, surpassing Lou Brock's MLB record

1999 The body of British mountaineer George Mallory was discovered on Mount Everest, some 75 years after he and Andrew Irvine disappeared while attempting to become the first people to summit the peak.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 01, 2024, 09:01:27 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Founding of the Illuminati (1776)
The Illuminati were members of a rationalistic society founded in Germany by Adam Weishaupt. Having close affinities with the Freemasons and seemingly organized on a Masonic plan, the group was briefly very popular among German rationalists but had limited influence. The Roman Catholic Church, which Weishaupt left in his youth and rejoined before his death, condemned the Illuminati. In 1785, the Bavarian government dissolved the organization.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 04, 2024, 11:33:44 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
The May Fourth Movement (1919)
The May Fourth Movement was the first mass movement in modern Chinese history. It began with about 5,000 university students in Beijing protesting the Versailles Conference's decision to transfer former German concessions in China to Japan. Demonstrations and strikes spread, and a nationwide boycott of Japanese goods followed. The movement began a patriotic outburst of new urban intellectuals against foreign imperialists and warlords
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 05, 2024, 08:27:13 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Grand Opening of New York City's Carnegie Hall (1891)
Carnegie Hall has long been the most famous concert hall in the US. Admired for its beauty and superb acoustics, it was designed in a Neo-Italian Renaissance style by architect William Burnet Tuthill and was endowed by industrialist Andrew Carnegie at the insistence of conductor Walter Damrosch. Pyotr Tchaikovsky was the guest of honor at its opening. The venue was slated for demolition in the 1950s but was saved by a public outcry.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 05, 2024, 03:36:24 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/wq1AQVT.jpeg)

Sanford Stadium track people pre1981.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 07, 2024, 08:12:06 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

World War II: Germany Signs Unconditional Surrender (1945)
By the beginning of 1944, air warfare had turned overwhelmingly in favor of the Allies, who wrought unprecedented destruction on many German cities and on transport and industries throughout German-held Europe. German collapse came after the meeting of the Western and Russian armies at Torgau in Saxony, and after Hitler's death amid the ruins of Berlin, which was falling to the Russians. The unconditional surrender of Germany was signed at Reims on May 7.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 08, 2024, 08:34:23 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Soviet Union Announces Boycott of Summer Olympics (1984)
In response to the US boycott of the 1980 Summer Olympics in Moscow, 14 Eastern Bloc countries, including the USSR, Cuba, and East Germany, boycotted the 1984 Summer Olympic Games in Los Angeles, California. The USSR cited US "chauvinistic sentiments and anti-Soviet hysteria" in its announcement of its decision not to participate. Thanks, in part, to the Soviet boycott, the US won 83 gold medals and 174 medals overall in Los Angeles.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 08, 2024, 09:39:44 AM
4th July 1919 and Jess Willard AKA “the Potawatomi giant” slumps into the corner of the ring after Jack Dempsey AKA ‘kid blackie’ - ‘the manassa mauler’ had destroyed the champion with a savage beating many of the fans present had rarely seen before. Willard had in fact ki.lled a man in the ring in 1913 named Jack “Bull” Young. Willard had hit him so hard in the head that a piece of his broken jaw was driven into his head....Jack Young would di.e in the 9th round. Jess Willards notoriety was real having kil.led a man in the ring and was charged with second degree murder. He fought the charges in court and won. 2 years later he was the world champion having beaten Jack Johnson for the heavyweight title in 1915 in Havana Cuba. With his solid reputation intact, Willard agreed to fight a new young boxer named Jack Dempsey.Born of mixed heritage and one of 13 siblings, the young fighter was the family protector and became a brawler for money at local pubs and bars. Dempsey’s career was about to go into the next level when the 6’1″, 187 pound Dempsey stepped into the ring to fight Willard in Toledo Ohio on July 4th 1919. The much smaller boxer had been bothered by Willard’s remarks before the fight. Willard had claimed that “This will be the easiest fight of my career,” and referred to how he was happy to bring the title belt back to the ‘white race.” Dempsey held onto the remarks and used them to fire the raging flames that burned within him. 30seconds into the first round Dempsey hit the champion with a huge left and broke his jaw in over a dozen places, knocking him to the mat. Willard rose and was knocked down 7 times in that first round and suffered tremendous damage at the hands of the challenger. To Willards credit he lasted until the start of the fourth round where he failed to answer the bell,his jaw broken in multiple places,a broken cheek bone, broken ribs,permanent hearing loss and missing teeth. Dempsey would go onto become the king of the roaring 1920s and defend the title for 6 years. Willard would retire and only box again for exhibitions.

One of the worst beatings in a boxing ring ever seen

(https://i.imgur.com/Jb5vfsm.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 08, 2024, 09:49:27 AM
[color=var(--primary-text)].Chicago O'Hare International Airport 1960. It opened in February 1944, 79 years ago. O'Hare became famous during the jet age, holding the distinction as the world's busiest airport by passenger traffic from 1963 to 1998; today, it is the world's fourth-busiest airport for passenger counts, serving 54 million passengers in 2021.[/color][/iurl][img width=680 height=451.438 alt=May be an image of text]https://scontent-atl3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/441379064_122145292952208128_6381007347427173784_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=HwyL8O5fxI8Q7kNvgGBmtN6&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-2.xx&oh=00_AfAAHq7_Iy7OLZH86-NAQezd6WpKl8i-9UTtzibPqZDSZA&oe=6641665E[/img]
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 08, 2024, 09:58:50 AM
[color=var(--primary-text)].Chicago O'Hare International Airport 1960. It opened in February 1944, 79 years ago. O'Hare became famous during the jet age, holding the distinction as the world's busiest airport by passenger traffic from 1963 to 1998; today, it is the world's fourth-busiest airport for passenger counts, serving 54 million passengers in 2021.[/color][/iurl][img width=680 height=451.438 alt=May be an image of text]https://scontent-atl3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/441379064_122145292952208128_6381007347427173784_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=HwyL8O5fxI8Q7kNvgGBmtN6&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-2.xx&oh=00_AfAAHq7_Iy7OLZH86-NAQezd6WpKl8i-9UTtzibPqZDSZA&oe=6641665E[/img]
I guess that means it's actually 80 years old now. Just went through it. It looks different now.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 08, 2024, 10:00:51 AM
Any large airport will of course look very different now.  A lot of them didn't even exist 80 years ago other than maybe as a strip.  I read that Dubai wants to expand to have the largest in the world soonish.  Even the city of Dubai has changed massively in 20-30 years.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 08, 2024, 10:24:49 AM
ORD 1985:

(https://i.imgur.com/BN2VNdq.jpeg)

ORD Today:

(https://i.imgur.com/ltNMckQ.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 08, 2024, 10:48:02 AM
Lewis Grizzard, famed comedian, once defined Atlanta as the "only city surrounded by an airport".

Of the current busiest airports, I think fair number were much smaller in 1985, if they existed at all.

Dubai - I'm guessing was not more than an air strip.

Tokyo - Existed then, much smaller than now.

Haneda Airport opened as Tokyo Haneda Airfield in 1931. The airfield was centrally located in the country and served scheduled domestic flights and goodwill flights. In 1978 most international flights were relocated to the newly constructed
Narita Airport

 (https://www.japan.travel/en/spot/1551) (https://res.cloudinary.com/jnto/image/upload/fl_lossy,f_auto/v1515582005/static/svg/common/external_link.svg), and Haneda became a domestic airport. However, the number of air passengers and airlines has been increasing, and Haneda has expanded to accommodate the growing demand for air travel. In 2010 the airport's international terminal, Terminal 3, was opened. There are also plans for a new train line to open that connects Tokyo Station and Haneda in around 18 minutes.

New Dehli - Same thing.

Istanbul - Same thing.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on May 08, 2024, 03:03:42 PM
1984 Formula 1 Dallas Grand Prix at the Cotton Bowl and Texas State Fairgrounds:

(https://i.imgur.com/fo3BpBJ.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/gqTOUaT.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/fO0OGIy.jpeg)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 09, 2024, 08:25:15 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/S5W0Sud.png)

Some folks aren't aware as to how recent many European countries came into existence.  Italy and Germany both started around 1870.  Poland has been in and out of existence all through history.  Austria-Hungary?  Turkey?  (It's partly European.)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 09, 2024, 08:29:00 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/S5W0Sud.png)

Some folks aren't aware as to how recent many European countries came into existence.  Italy and Germany both started around 1870.  Poland has been in and out of existence all through history.  Austria-Hungary?  Turkey?  (It's partly European.)
We were in Trieste a few years ago. The people there are very proud of their Austrian heritage.

Beautiful place if you can ever find time to visit.

It's also interesting how cities used to battle, like Florence and Siena. It would be like Miami and Cincy going to war.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 09, 2024, 08:36:13 AM
I'm looking at a several week kind of stay in Provence and Tuscany some day.  My wife wants to see the kids who are mostly on the Pacific coast and that soaks up some time and money.  Then we have the 30 day cruise next March.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 09, 2024, 09:11:30 AM
This Day In History May 8 1886 American pharmacist John S. Pemberton developed Coca-Cola, a drink he originally billed as a cure-all tonic.

On May 8, 1886, Dr. John Stith Pemberton invented Coca-Cola, forever changing the history of eating habits around the world. The drink’s name refers to two of its original ingredients: coca leaves and kola nuts (a source of caffeine). Since he was a pharmacist from Atlanta he had access to a variety of chemicals and natural ingredients. One day, he prepared a dark coloured liquid and decided to take it to his shop, Jacobs' Pharmacy, to mix it with carbonated water. At this point, a test was needed. So he had the customers of the pharmacy taste it, who greatly appreciated the delicious and refreshing drink. From that day Pemberton put the forerunner of the current Coca-Cola on sale at five cents a glass as a takeaway drink.
The logo as we know it today was invented and designed by Frank M. Robinson, Dr. Pemberton's accountant, who thought that the two Cs would have made a nice advertising logo. The Coca-Cola brand - written in its famous italics font - was born with a first advertising campaign dedicated to the drink appeared in the newspaper The Atlanta Journal, inviting citizens to try this "popular new take-out drink". The advertising campaign for the product launch appeared on the first awnings of the shops, on which the words "Drink Coca-Cola" stood out. But the beginnings were not exciting: in the first year they sold just about nine glasses a day.
In 1887 John Pemberton registered the copyright of Coca-Cola Syrup and Extract with the US Patent Office. A year later, disheartened by the lack of success of his invention and never fully convinced - and aware - of the drink's potential, he gradually sold the company's shares to various partners. Shortly before his death, he sold the rest of Coca-Cola to Asa G. Candler who bought back the shares of other holders until he acquired complete control of the company.
Together with his brother - John S. Candler - Frank Robinson - John Pemberton's former partner - and two other partners, Mr. Candler opened The Coca-Cola Company, with a start-up capital of $100,000. They invested a lot in marketing with free coupons,  promotions, souvenir fans, calendars, clocks, cup holders and so on. He did everything to advertise the brand and make it famous. In 1894 the first factory was born, in Dallas, Texas and a year later Candler made a famous announcement: "Today Coca-Cola is drunk in every state and territory of the United States". Under Candler’s leadership, sales rose from about 9,000 gallons of syrup in 1890 to 370,877 gallons in 1900.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 09, 2024, 09:14:54 AM
I wonder how much syrup McD's buys. Gotta be a HUGE number.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 09, 2024, 10:09:33 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Freighter Destroys Part of Florida's Sunshine Skyway Bridge (1980)
The original Sunshine Skyway Bridge over Tampa Bay was completed in 1954. A new southbound span was opened in 1971, but only nine years later, it was destroyed when the freighter Summit Venture collided with a support column during a storm, sending more than 1,200 ft (366 m) of the bridge plummeting into the bay. The collision caused several automobiles and a bus to fall 150 ft (46 m), killing 35 people.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 09, 2024, 10:24:33 AM
We were in Trieste a few years ago. The people there are very proud of their Austrian heritage.

Beautiful place if you can ever find time to visit.

It's also interesting how cities used to battle, like Florence and Siena. It would be like Miami and Cincy going to war.
Trieste was a lot more important as part of Austria-Hungary. 

As a peninsula, Italy obviously has a lot of coastal/port cities so Trieste is just one of many such cities. Before WWI Trieste was one of (I think) only two major ports of the Hapsburg empire along with Fiume. It was also the home port of the Austro-Hungarian Navy.

The Austro-Hungarian Navy is interesting mostly because it produced Admiral Horty (sp?). He ended up as "regent" of Hungry between the wars and during most of WWII. This is somewhat comical because Hungry was a landlocked country ruled by an Admiral with no navy who was a Regent with no King. Now that is some weird history.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 10, 2024, 09:09:44 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Nelson Mandela Inaugurated as South Africa's First Black President (1994)
Mandela served as the first democratically elected President of South Africa from 1994 to 1999. His political activism began after 1948 with an initial commitment to non-violent mass struggle. Later, his anti-apartheid activities led to his imprisonment for nearly 30 years. Released in 1990, he was elected president of the African National Congress and represented it in the turbulent negotiations that led to the establishment of majority rule.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2024, 09:44:08 AM
The mind-boggling gearing on the Napier Deltic engine. The Deltic is a British engine famous for its complexity and ambitiousness. It is a triangle-shaped, opposed-piston, valveless, supercharged, two-stroke diesel engine with a displacement of 88.2 litres (5,382 cu in). The engine was essentially comprised of three opposed engines, with a crankshaft in each corner, forming a triangle. This eliminated the need for cylinder heads thus reducing weight. Each cylinder contained two pistons, with a total of 18 cylinders and 36 pistons. It produced a maximum of 2,500 hp. Development began in the 1940s, and over its career it powered locomotives and naval vessels, including a few German Schnellboots.
Another Napier creation: https://planehistoria.com/napier-nomad/ (https://planehistoria.com/napier-nomad/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR0upGXwrIFgv0HaFuYlhiiwJmkrX4CEUWS47cyZEnYvTO0RHkFyoJGYW9k_aem_ATQX-OUG0_nVPr-cCELEqc_uWFwci2A4_78442z0BCiphyG9RZ3gw63I4LcOVkI1pHuOnI3yj6Y0jhlSKoY0iQCm)
(https://i.imgur.com/IT2hxP3.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on May 10, 2024, 09:59:04 AM
I'm looking at a several week kind of stay in Provence and Tuscany some day.  My wife wants to see the kids who are mostly on the Pacific coast and that soaks up some time and money.  Then we have the 30 day cruise next March. 
I'd rather spend 30 days in Provence and Tuscany than 30 days on a cruise.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 10, 2024, 10:03:12 AM
I'd rather spend 30 days in Provence and Tuscany than 30 days on a cruise.
Yeah, different things for us.  This is probably out last chance to "see Asia" to much of an extent.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 10, 2024, 10:40:22 AM
I'd rather spend 30 days in Texas in January/February

the drive is shorter than travel to Italy, and WAY cheaper

and I don't have to visit an airport or exchange currency or other annoying issues

well, many Texans are just plain annoying
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 11, 2024, 09:02:38 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Siam Is Renamed Thailand (1949)
Thailand's origin is traditionally tied to the short-lived kingdom of Sukhothai founded in 1238. After contact with the west in the 16th century, adroit diplomacy enabled Siam to remain independent of European colonization, the only country in Southeast Asia able to do so. A mostly bloodless revolution established a constitutional monarchy in Siam in 1932. Seven years later, under Pibul Songgram's military dictatorship, the name Thailand was adopted.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 11, 2024, 09:14:42 AM
We have different reasons for traveling, obviously, I'm sure most of us do.  Some don't like much at all, which is fine, and cheaper.

I like seeing places I never thought I'd see to get some brief impression of them.  Maybe I'll go back someday, or decide I won't.  Fine.

We like seeing places close to home that sound interesting and worth a day or three.

Then we like relaxing vacations, say at the beach or mountains, where we don't "do" much, but I've discovered we can do this staying at home just fine.

And we like going to France, and Europe, for the food, the experience, to see friends and cousing, etc.  I'm sort of a history maven and there is a lot to see there of course.

I was quite surprised at my first visit to Omaha Beach for example, and to other similar places here and abroad.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 12, 2024, 05:15:30 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Siam Is Renamed Thailand (1949)
Thus ruining this song:
https://youtu.be/RG5mOd8Ubsk?si=iQ96VNG8gj48pWsr
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 12, 2024, 08:08:41 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
North American Aerospace Defense Command Founded (1958)
North American Aerospace Defense Command, commonly abbreviated NORAD, is a bi-national command of the US and Canada that maintains the sovereignty of North American airspace by providing aerospace surveillance as well as warning and assessment of aerospace attacks. Headquartered deep inside Cheyenne Mountain in Colorado, NORAD was formed in 1958 during the Cold War to provide security in the event of a Soviet nuclear attack.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 12, 2024, 08:11:55 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/q3f6CmE.png)
Rows upon rows of US B-17 Flying Fortresses, now no longer of use, sitting at Kingman Army Airfield in Arizona, US after WWII. Many were basically brand new, but would end up being scrapped in the post-war years. https://planehistoria.com/the-silent-witness-of-air.../ (https://planehistoria.com/the-silent-witness-of-air-history-aircraft-graveyards/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR1Av-OI3_bw0iEYswhCby37WtgcoHI54MvMzn9wftMXyBza518qtVyP-iE_aem_AWkog-GMU8_RAz-nh4MT6jK9MCdsDqGwYGRWUD6Vt4JgE2HQo1h5gJJfcxhFEVSYDBQKVvSfE6ODOGleZcCQTUWQ)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 12, 2024, 03:58:42 PM
A gold U.S. Air Force F-16A Falcon from the Iowa Air National Guard is on the ramp in Sioux City, Iowa on June 30, 2022. The jet is painted with commemorative anniversary paint scheme that replicates the unit’s 50th anniversary gold jet as it appeared in 1996. The 2022 redesign of the 185th Air Refueling Wing static display was unveiled as the Air Force celebrates its 75th Anniversary this year.

(https://i.imgur.com/AcLQ4ny.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2024, 08:55:40 AM
Synthetic rubber was invented by an American chemist Charles Goodyear in the mid-19th century. Natural rubber is found in Southeast Asia, but during the Japanese occupation of much of Southeast Asia, there was a critical shortage. As a result, the demand for synthetic rubber grew. With rubber being essential for military vehicles, aircraft, and countless other wartime needs, the Allies found it challenging to ensure they had an adequate supply.

Fortunately, synthetic rubber offered an alternative to natural rubber as it was produced from petroleum-based materials through chemical processes. Its invention and widespread adoption helped the Allies during the Second World War. Its versatility and durability ensured the production of tires, seals, gaskets, and many other components for military vehicles and equipment.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 13, 2024, 09:05:49 AM
and increased our reliance on oil
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2024, 09:21:40 AM
Not much, most of oil goes into fuel, and what doesn't mostly goes into plastics.  Some is used to make syn rubber, yes, but we still use a lot of natural rubber in tires etc.  But we'd still need "oil" even if fuel is no longer needed from it.

(https://i.imgur.com/IpFK0wo.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 13, 2024, 10:30:27 AM
Not much, most of oil goes into fuel, and what doesn't mostly goes into plastics.  Some is used to make syn rubber, yes, but we still use a lot of natural rubber in tires etc.  But we'd still need "oil" even if fuel is no longer needed from it.

(https://i.imgur.com/IpFK0wo.png)
Also, vis-a-vis WWII, reliance on Oil was absolutely NOT a problem for the USA since a majority of the world's oil was coming from the US at that time anyway.  Ie, the US had plenty of it, enough to cover US needs and share generously with allies.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2024, 10:36:53 AM
I got into rubber chemistry a decent bit back in the day.  It's interesting stuff, based on isoprene, which is also the basis for terpenes like you find in conifers.  It has several ways to polymerize and can make biodegradable polymers.

(https://i.imgur.com/ugg1xbE.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 13, 2024, 10:37:06 AM
what changed that?

Couldn't have been liberal environmentalists

cheaper labor and easier drilling in the middle east - more profit?? 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 13, 2024, 10:39:51 AM
I was watching a show over the weekend about some massive Roman construction project and it reminded me of a question.  My dad always used to ask how the Romans could do high level engineering using Roman Numerals.  

I think it is a fair question.  I mean, I can understand addition and subtraction in Roman Numerals but how do you do higher level math.  

Relatively simple example:
Say you need to know the area of a circle with a radius of 8 (doesn't matter 8 what, it could be 8 inches, 8 feet, 8 meters, 8 cubits, whatever).  We all know the formula is Pr*R squared.  So in modern numerals, 3.14*8^2 and it solves easily as:

Now try it as Pi*VIII to the II.  Where  do you even start?  


I know we have lots of engineers here such as @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) but this question might be more up @847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) 's alley since I think he is a civil engineer so the Roman-era designers of civil projects are his direct (by 2K+ years) occupational ancestors.  

Anybody know?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 13, 2024, 10:43:45 AM
what changed that?

Couldn't have been liberal environmentalists

cheaper labor and easier drilling in the middle east - more profit??
There isn't a singular answer, it is a lot of things.  

One of them is simply that the "low hanging fruit" was used up.  All the good North American Oil that was close to the surface was used up long ago.  Now to get oil here you have to drill deeper or drill offshore or convert shale or whatnot.  In the middle east the terrain is mostly desert so all you have to do is drive across sand, drill, and pump.  That is a MASSIVE oversimplification but the general principle is correct.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2024, 10:44:08 AM
What changed what?  The whole oil thing really was started by the British navy when they shifted from using coal to fuel oil in their ships.  Then they got interested in the Middle East, and basically took much of it over in effect.  Then oil discovered in PA here started to replace whale oil in lamps etc.  Then cars happened and the ICE Vs took over from steam and EVs.  SO, you needed gasoline and lubricants, then airplanes happened, then WW One, then we all needed rubber,  it's all fascinating to me.

One of the most critical developments in history rarely mentioned is the Haber process developed in Germany because they lacked ready access to gunpowder and explosives, and fertilizer.  Modern civilization is heavily dependent on the Haber-Bosch process.

Haber-Bosch process | Definition, Conditions, Importance, & Facts | Britannica (https://www.britannica.com/technology/Haber-Bosch-process)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 13, 2024, 10:44:43 AM
now that's a good question

funny I didn't think of that
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2024, 10:46:42 AM
Roman Engineering - World History Encyclopedia (https://www.worldhistory.org/Roman_Engineering/)

I suspect it was more ad hoc than calculated, trial an error, do it this way, it works, for whatever reason.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 13, 2024, 10:47:59 AM
I was watching a show over the weekend about some massive Roman construction project and it reminded me of a question.  My dad always used to ask how the Romans could do high level engineering using Roman Numerals. 

I think it is a fair question.  I mean, I can understand addition and subtraction in Roman Numerals but how do you do higher level math. 

Relatively simple example:
Say you need to know the area of a circle with a radius of 8 (doesn't matter 8 what, it could be 8 inches, 8 feet, 8 meters, 8 cubits, whatever).  We all know the formula is Pr*R squared.  So in modern numerals, 3.14*8^2 and it solves easily as:

  • 8*8 is 64
  • 64*3.14 is 200.96
  • The area of a circle with a radius of 8 is about 201. 
Now try it as Pi*VIII to the II.  Where  do you even start? 


I know we have lots of engineers here such as @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) but this question might be more up @847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) 's alley since I think he is a civil engineer so the Roman-era designers of civil projects are his direct (by 2K+ years) occupational ancestors. 

Anybody know?
No idea how they did it. Having seen a lot of it up close, it appears to me that many buildings were way-over designed.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 13, 2024, 11:09:09 AM

I was watching a show over the weekend about some massive Roman construction project and it reminded me of a question.  My dad always used to ask how the Romans could do high level engineering using Roman Numerals. 

I think it is a fair question.  I mean, I can understand addition and subtraction in Roman Numerals but how do you do higher level math. 

Relatively simple example:
Say you need to know the area of a circle with a radius of 8 (doesn't matter 8 what, it could be 8 inches, 8 feet, 8 meters, 8 cubits, whatever).  We all know the formula is Pr*R squared.  So in modern numerals, 3.14*8^2 and it solves easily as:

  • 8*8 is 64
  • 64*3.14 is 200.96
  • The area of a circle with a radius of 8 is about 201. 
Now try it as Pi*VIII to the II.  Where  do you even start? 


I know we have lots of engineers here such as @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) but this question might be more up @847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) 's alley since I think he is a civil engineer so the Roman-era designers of civil projects are his direct (by 2K+ years) occupational ancestors. 

Anybody know?
I have no clue. However the googles said it was done using a device similar to an abacus: https://cacm.acm.org/blogcacm/how-did-the-romans-calculate/

I can't verify that info either way. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2024, 11:14:49 AM
The romans were great emulators, they'd take anything from other civilizations and perhaps modify it and improve it.  The arch was the major thing in their building often as not (aside from roads).  They borrowed that concept.  How much math would be needed to build their stuff?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Temp430 on May 13, 2024, 11:20:03 AM
I don't think the Romans did calculations like modern civil engineers.  They didn't have materials with known tension, compression, torsion, and tensile values like steel girders.  They were forced to work with local stone, mortar, bricks.  They guesstimated from great experience how to support large structures like some of the aqueducts still around. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on May 13, 2024, 11:36:58 AM
I don't think the Romans did calculations like modern civil engineers.  They didn't have materials with known tension, compression, torsion, and tensile values like steel girders.  They were forced to work with local stone, mortar, bricks.  They guesstimated from great experience how to support large structures like some of the aqueducts still around.
Yeah, and I think there was much more emphasis on experience and methods than calculation in a lot of things in those times. Over time they'd learned "if you do it THIS way, the building doesn't fall down, and if you do it THAT way, the building falls down", so they handed down over generations doing it THIS way is the right way. 

I think a lot of things back then were very method/process dependent. I think back to brewing beer, which has been done for 5,000 years and possibly as many as 10,000. How do you brew beer when you don't even know what yeast is? Well, you don't need to know what yeast is if you know "what works" and "what doesn't work". If you merely repeat a process that is known to work over and over, you can get moderately consistent results. And the process is handed down generation to generation. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2024, 11:43:17 AM
There are earlier pyramids which clearly were failing so they changed the design/slope.  Early engineering was trial and error, not calculus.  I've read that Hoover Dam was over engineered by a large margin because they did not know for sure.

(https://i.imgur.com/jBsFsSq.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 13, 2024, 11:45:31 AM
much of today's engineering is over engineered by a large margin because

except for bridge pier protection apparently 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 13, 2024, 11:55:07 AM
I suspect bridge piers will get a lot of funding.

On a somewhat related note, I see these fancy "lifts" at pools now on the occasion that a wheel chair bound individual wants to swim.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 13, 2024, 12:00:32 PM
I suspect bridge piers will get a lot of funding.

On a somewhat related note, I see these fancy "lifts" at pools now on the occasion that a wheel chair bound individual wants to swim.
ADA mandate.  The alternative is a zero-depth entry.  Zero depth entry is simpler and has less maintenance but it is nearly impossible to retrofit onto an existing pool.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 13, 2024, 12:03:20 PM
There are earlier pyramids which clearly were failing so they changed the design/slope.  Early engineering was trial and error, not calculus.  I've read that Hoover Dam was over engineered by a large margin because they did not know for sure.

(https://i.imgur.com/jBsFsSq.png)
A factor of safety of 5 or more is what I learned on my tour of that. The construction details were mind-blowing. All of that concrete - they had to put water pipes inside the forms because concrete gets extremely hot while curing. Pretty amazing stuff there.

What the ancient contractors lacked most, in my opinion, was the ability to do good subsurface observation. There was no such thing as geotechnical engineering in those days.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 14, 2024, 06:36:55 AM
I think a lot of things back then were very method/process dependent. I think back to brewing beer, which has been done for 5,000 years and possibly as many as 10,000. How do you brew beer when you don't even know what yeast is? Well, you don't need to know what yeast is if you know "what works" and "what doesn't work". If you merely repeat a process that is known to work over and over, you can get moderately consistent results. And the process is handed down generation to generation.
This one always got me - how the hell did they know/find the process & steps,grains,yeast,hops,water. What/when had to be milled how/why to whip up the wort,sugars,starches,enzymes - avoiding bacteria,how/when it turns bad and what actually works - crazy how it all came together.

 As what Franklin said “In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is Freedom, in water there is bacteria.” But ya had to be careful
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 14, 2024, 08:46:08 AM
The "wine theory", or notion, is that folks made grape juice, and probably put it in bags (animal stomachs, not Kroger bags).  The jostling and natural yeast on the grape skins will ferment the grape juice.  It can go to vinegar of course, and would in anaerobic conditions, but they probably learned over time how to minimize the vinegar.

I've read that wine in Roman times was typically 5-7% alcohol, vs 12-18% today.

Beer was probably the same kind of deal.  Some clever person would be trying this or that on a smaller scale to see what worked, much like steel making for swords etc.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 14, 2024, 10:15:42 AM
 much like steel making for swords etc.
This is a fascinating history. Years ago I read the following book which touches on it among other things:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=the+arms+of+krupp&crid=1VBOWKC7A9UW2&sprefix=the+arms%2Caps%2C119&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_8

As late as the late 19th Century the Krupp patriarch was able to awe the crowds at World's Fairs and the like with large steel ingots. This was because consistent steel making only became possible with coal-fired hearths. 

The Romans had steel which they used for swords and steel existed even before that. The limitation was that fires 🔥 fueled by wood 🪵 aren't hot enough to produce steel consistently. Instead of a more-or-less scientific process that can be replicated, it is more art than science. 

Back then Iron workers (blacksmiths) would produce iron for plows and other uses. Occasionally they would more-or-less stumble into steel and make a sword. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 14, 2024, 01:03:07 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Jamestown, Virginia, Founded (1607)
Jamestown was the first permanent English settlement in the New World. It was founded by the London Company on a peninsula—now an island—in the James River and named after the reigning English monarch, James I. Disease, starvation, and Native American attacks wiped out most of the colony, but the London Company continually sent more men and supplies. A successfully exported strain of tobacco was cultivated there by a colonist named John Rolfe
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 14, 2024, 01:40:11 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
Jamestown, Virginia, Founded (1607)
Jamestown was the first permanent English settlement in the New World. It was founded by the London Company on a peninsula—now an island—in the James River and named after the reigning English monarch, James I. Disease, starvation, and Native American attacks wiped out most of the colony, but the London Company continually sent more men and supplies. A successfully exported strain of tobacco was cultivated there by a colonist named John Rolfe
My ancestor was there from 1610-1614 and was a witness at Pocahontas' wedding. Then he went back to England because his wife died and was hired by the separatists to go with them to the New World and thus was the only Mayflower passenger with prior New World experience. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Hopkins_(merchant)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 14, 2024, 06:02:22 PM
Today in 1607, the first permanent English colony in North America is founded in Virginia. It’s named Jamestown and founded with 100 colonists

On landing, they have a thanksgiving ceremony to thank God for a safe crossing and delivering them to this new land. Building starts with a palisade triangular fort with a church, warehouse and houses that double as a tavern, school and trade shops.  Although there was a tavern, think of it more as just a meeting hall place rather than a pub. The site is a small firm island in a salt marsh that would prove to be a breeding ground for mosquitoes.
The Colonists enjoy a mixed relationship with the local Native American tribe, the Powhatan whose hunting and fishing grounds they have now set up on.
Although established, the settlers began to die due  to illness, infighting and crop failure. Many of the English plants that had been brought across couldn’t grow or those that did had very low yields. Fishing was possible but not enough to sustain the entire population. The river water wasn’t clean enough and had a swampy slime quality to it, even boiled and rudimentary filtration it wasn’t good.
The Powhatan did send food aid to the settlers (not be be confused with Thanksgiving) to assist the settlers but their demands and more hostile attitudes ended this assistance.
By 1609-1610, the era known as the “Starving Time” the population fell by 80% and became so bad that the survivors took to eating cats, dogs, rats, leather belts & boots and eventually the ultimate sin- cannibalism. From what archaeologists have found, they began to eat the flesh of the recently deceased, a near intact skull of a 14 year old girl (pic 2) was discovered in a bone pile and shows the knife marks (pic 3) where her skin was peeled from her bones and a cracking of the cranium to access the brain. Tests have show that she was (thankfully) dead before this happened but the rest of her body is lost to time so we don’t know if she died naturally or was murdered.
Her face has been reconstructed and along with her skull can be seen at the Jamestown Museum, she is named Jane as in Jane Doe, the go to name for unknown women in the US.
The colony itself was nearly abandoned and the survivors had accepted their fate when in June 1610
as they walked the river towards the sea, they saw a resupply convoy approaching and salvation. An earlier resupply convoy had been lost in a hurricane near Bermuda in 1609.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 15, 2024, 09:32:13 AM
the triangle strikes!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 15, 2024, 09:43:25 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

US Supreme Court Declares Standard Oil an "Unreasonable" Monopoly (1911)
By 1880, through elimination of competitors, mergers, and railroad rebates, John D. Rockefeller's Standard Oil controlled the refining of up to 95 percent of all oil produced in the US. In 1892, the Ohio Supreme Court ordered the trust dissolved, but it continued to operate. Exposed in Ida Tarbell's History of the Standard Oil Company in 1904, it was broken up in 1911 after a lengthy antitrust suit by the US government.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 15, 2024, 09:53:46 AM
On November 1, 1967, "Cool Hand Luke" was released.

Donn Pearce, a merchant seaman who later became a counterfeiter and safe cracker, wrote the novel "Cool Hand Luke", about his experiences working on a chain gang while serving in a Florida prison. He sold the story to Warner Bros. for $80,000 and received another $15,000 to write the screenplay. After working in television for over a decade, Rosenberg chose it to make it his directorial debut in cinema. He took the idea to Jalem Productions, owned by Jack Lemmon. Since Pearce had no experience writing screenplays, his draft was reworked by Frank Pierson. Conrad Hall was hired as the cinematographer, while Paul Newman's brother, Arthur, was hired as the unit production manager. Newman's biographer Marie Edelman Borden states that the "tough, honest" script drew together threads from earlier movies, especially "Hombre", Newman's earlier film of 1967. Director Stuart Rosenberg altered the original ending in the script, adding "an upbeat ending that would reprise the protagonist's (and Paul Newman's) trademark smile."
George Kennedy turned in an Academy Award-winning performance as the leader of the prisoners, Dragline, who fights Luke, and comes to respect him. During the nomination process, worried about the box office success of Camelot and Bonnie and Clyde, Kennedy invested US$5,000 in trade advertising to promote himself. Kennedy later stated that thanks to the award his salary was "multiplied by ten the minute (he) won," also adding "the happiest part was that I didn't have to play only villains anymore."

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 15, 2024, 12:54:17 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

US Supreme Court Declares Standard Oil an "Unreasonable" Monopoly (1911)
By 1880, through elimination of competitors, mergers, and railroad rebates, John D. Rockefeller's Standard Oil controlled the refining of up to 95 percent of all oil produced in the US. In 1892, the Ohio Supreme Court ordered the trust dissolved, but it continued to operate. Exposed in Ida Tarbell's History of the Standard Oil Company in 1904, it was broken up in 1911 after a lengthy antitrust suit by the US government.

Teddy the Trust Buster!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 15, 2024, 05:28:37 PM
1917. 

(https://i.imgur.com/eLLhn5m.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 16, 2024, 06:16:40 PM
Dayum - a proper little D-Day surprise

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/PywNGrJSoeQ?feature=share
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 17, 2024, 07:33:12 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The First Kentucky Derby (1875)
The Kentucky Derby is a classic US thoroughbred horse race. Established in 1875, it is run annually on the first Saturday in May at Churchill Downs track in Louisville, Kentucky. The field is limited to three-year-old Thoroughbreds, and the track distance is 1.25 mi (2,000 m). With the Preakness and the Belmont Stakes, it makes up US racing's coveted Triple Crown. In front of an estimated crowd of 10,000 people, the inaugural derby was won by jockey Oliver Lewis
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 17, 2024, 07:35:05 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Bartholomew Roberts (1682)
Now infamous as "Black Bart," Roberts was a Welsh pirate who raided ships off the coasts of the Americas and West Africa in the 18th century, during the period known as the "Golden Age of Piracy." Considered the most successful pirate of the era, he is estimated to have captured more than 400 vessels in a matter of a few years—far more than some of the best-known pirates of his day, such as Blackbeard or Captain Kidd.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 17, 2024, 10:22:05 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/hjSqvnz.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 17, 2024, 10:32:27 AM
I never understood the logic behind putting shag (or any) carpet where kids and drunk guys piss on the floor.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 17, 2024, 11:52:53 AM
I never understood the logic behind putting shag (or any) carpet where kids and drunk guys piss on the floor.
When I was a kid our family managed a bunch of rental properties for a guy. He had a group of duplexes where they had carpeted kitchens and bathrooms and that stuff was absolutely disgusting when we had to pull it. We replaced it with tile each time one was vacant but yeah, carpet in bathrooms is a bad idea. Kitchens aren't much better. It is food instead of piss but as the food residue stuck in the carpet fibers goes bad/rancid, it is disgusting too.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 17, 2024, 12:06:37 PM
The first day of production on The Godfather was officially March 23, 1971, with an initial budget of about one million dollars. Three weeks after the film process began, there were still fundamental issues to be resolved: the budget, the cast, the locations, etc.
When the film began to be shot, the problems did not diminish; the filming was linked to the real Mafia, and it was accused that they were asking for "collaborations as consulting technicians."
The controversy increased when the role of Luca Brassi was given to Lenny Montana, a former wrestler (mean 1.98 meters tall) who for a time was the most sadistic enforcer of the Colombo crime family, one of the True Five Families that controlled the organized crime activities in New York City.
Lenny Montana, who was actually called Leonardo Passafaro, was one of those technical consultants of the real mafia who collaborated with the intimate details that made the film so true.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 17, 2024, 12:24:55 PM
A blonde teenager, wanting to earn some extra money for the summer, decided to hire herself out as a "handy-woman"
She started canvassing a nearby well-to-do neighborhood. She went to the front door of the first house, and asked the owner if he had any odd jobs for her to do.
"Well, I guess I could use somebody to paint my porch," he said, "How much will you charge me?"
Delighted, the girl quickly responded, "How about $50?"
The man agreed and told her that the paint brushes and everything she would need was in the garage.
The man's wife, hearing the conversation said to her husband, "Does she realize that our porch goes ALL the way around the house?"
He responded, "That's a bit cynical, isn't it?"
The wife replied, "You're right. I guess I'm starting to believe all those dumb blonde jokes we've been getting by email lately."
Later that day, the blonde teenager came to the door to collect her money.
"You're finished already?" the startled husband asked.
"Yes, she replied, and I even had paint left over, so I gave it two coats."
Impressed, the man reached into his pocket for the $50.00 and handed it to her along with a $10.00 tip.
“And, by the way," the teenager added, "it's not a Porch, it's a Lexus."

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 17, 2024, 12:45:45 PM
1917.

(https://i.imgur.com/eLLhn5m.jpeg)
Jeebis anyone have a time machine?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 17, 2024, 03:34:55 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/12QBA3Q.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 18, 2024, 09:56:04 AM
Railway bikes; manufactured by the Sheffield Car Company, Three Rivers, Michigan, makers of 1, 2, and 4- man self-propelled railroad inspection hand cars. Photo likely in Pellston, Michigan 1910.

(https://i.imgur.com/4R3fteF.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 19, 2024, 09:51:40 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Marilyn Monroe Sings "Happy Birthday, Mr. President" (1962)
In 1962, US President John F. Kennedy's birthday was celebrated with a lavish party at Madison Square Garden in New York City. During the event, Monroe took the stage and delivered a sultry version of "Happy Birthday," substituting "Mr. President" for Kennedy's name, a gesture that has served to fuel the persistent rumors that she and Kennedy had engaged in an affair. The performance was one of Monroe's last major public appearances.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 19, 2024, 10:52:44 AM
Morning bathers in Las Vegas watch a mushroom cloud from an atomic test 75 miles away, 1953.

(https://i.imgur.com/rCFVKiV.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 19, 2024, 11:52:21 AM
ON MAY 16, 1842, about 100 pioneers with 18 wagons set out from the Independence, Missouri, area in one of the first wagon trains to the Northwest. Over the next two decades, tens of thousands would follow on the Oregon Trail, the longest of the great overland routes to the western frontier. “Oregon or the Grave.” “Patience and Perseverance.” “Never Say Die.” Such were the slogans that pioneer families painted on their wagons before striking out on the Oregon Trail, which began at Independence and stretched 2,000 miles across the Great Plains and Rocky Mountains to the valleys of the Oregon Territory.
 
The journey usually took four to six months. The settlers started out in the spring so they could get through the mountains before snow blocked the passes. They packed as much flour, bacon, salt, dried fruit, and other supplies as they could into the covered wagons, called “prairie schooners” because, from a distance, their white canvas tops looked like ship sails crossing the plains. Once on the trail, the settlers averaged about 15 miles a day. Many walked the whole trail beside the wagons.
The passage is from The American Patriot's Almanac: Daily Readings on America by William J. Bennett, John T.E. Cribb.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 20, 2024, 09:43:03 AM
ON MAY 16, 1842, about 100 pioneers with 18 wagons set out from the Independence, Missouri, area in one of the first wagon trains to the Northwest. Over the next two decades, tens of thousands would follow on the Oregon Trail, the longest of the great overland routes to the western frontier. “Oregon or the Grave.” “Patience and Perseverance.” “Never Say Die.” Such were the slogans that pioneer families painted on their wagons before striking out on the Oregon Trail, which began at Independence and stretched 2,000 miles across the Great Plains and Rocky Mountains to the valleys of the Oregon Territory.
 
The journey usually took four to six months. The settlers started out in the spring so they could get through the mountains before snow blocked the passes. They packed as much flour, bacon, salt, dried fruit, and other supplies as they could into the covered wagons, called “prairie schooners” because, from a distance, their white canvas tops looked like ship sails crossing the plains. Once on the trail, the settlers averaged about 15 miles a day. Many walked the whole trail beside the wagons.
The passage is from The American Patriot's Almanac: Daily Readings on America by William J. Bennett, John T.E. Cribb.
I tried it, it did not go well
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 20, 2024, 10:07:09 AM
Here is some weird history:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HWywUVvm3E

This whole series has been pretty good.  It is a week-by-week history of WWII done as if in real time.  

Anyway, on this week's episode they went into detail about something that I knew about in general but I was pretty vague on the specifics.  Starting at about 19:30 they explain the Point System that General Marshall came up with after VE Day to decide which guys would get to go home and which would stay in the Armed Services which (for the vast majority) would have meant heading to the Pacific for the invasion of Japan.  

It was first explained to me by a WWII vet I worked with who was one of the younger ones.  He was born in 1926, graduated from HS on D-Day (June 6, 1944), enlisted immediately upon graduation, and first saw combat at the outskirts of the Battle of the Bulge in December, 1944 so about six months after HS Graduation.  When the Germans surrendered on May 8, 1945 he had been in the service for 11 months and in combat for six.  That sounds like a LOT of service to me and it is . . . compared to me and probably to all or nearly all of us on this board but in the scheme of things at the time, his service was VERY limited compared to a lot of other guys . . .

Example of one of those "other guys":  When I was a kid I mowed a lot of yards and one of my customers was a significantly older WWII veteran.  I think he was born in about 1920.  Anyway, he joined the US Army BEFORE Pearl Harbor.  By VE day his service record included all of the following (these are just the things I know of from talking to him, I'm sure there was more):


I have the utmost respect for the first guy mentioned above and, as I said earlier, his service sounds like a lot to me and was a lot more then probably nearly all of us here but, compared to the second guy mentioned above, his service was minimal.  

General Marshall's idea was to let the guys with the most service go home first.  When the first guy mentioned above explained all this to me, he joked that he had "almost no points".  Near as I can tell he'd have had around 20-25 points.  That and $1 will get you a cup of coffee.  You needed 85 points to go home.  The second guy mentioned above probably had easily double the 85 points needed to go home.  

Anyway the points, as explained in the video are:

I find this interesting in part because it was a monumental logistical challenge.  The US had literally MILLIONS of men deployed all across the world and under this system they were going to reshuffle all of them and somehow end up with what they needed in terms of both numbers and experience ready to hit the beaches of Japan by November 1, 1945.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 21, 2024, 07:32:29 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Island of Saint Helena Discovered (1502)
The uninhabited island of St. Helena was discovered by Portuguese navigator João da Nova in the eastern South Atlantic, 1,200 mi (1,931 km) west of Africa. It became a port of call for ships sailing between Europe and the East Indies and was annexed by the British East India Company in 1659. Because of the island's remoteness, when the British exiled Napoleon Bonaparte in 1815, he was sent there. It became a British crown colony in 1834.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 21, 2024, 07:42:56 AM
An invasion of mainland Japan would have been rough.  The Japanese were starving as it was.  Just taking Okinawa was incredibly bloody for both sides.

The Battle of Okinawa was one of the bloodiest in the Pacific, with approximately 160,000 casualties combined (https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=fc1c1df6347c61d9JmltdHM9MTcxNjI0OTYwMCZpZ3VpZD0xOGUzN2JmNy05Y2VmLTZjMzgtMzhjYi02YjJlOThlZjZhZWYmaW5zaWQ9NjYyMw&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=18e37bf7-9cef-6c38-38cb-6b2e98ef6aef&psq=okinawa+casualties+ww2&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly9lbi53aWtpcGVkaWEub3JnL3dpa2kvQmF0dGxlX29mX09raW5hd2E&ntb=1)1 (https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=99c075e154ab13ecJmltdHM9MTcxNjI0OTYwMCZpZ3VpZD0xOGUzN2JmNy05Y2VmLTZjMzgtMzhjYi02YjJlOThlZjZhZWYmaW5zaWQ9NjYyNA&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=18e37bf7-9cef-6c38-38cb-6b2e98ef6aef&psq=okinawa+casualties+ww2&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly9lbi53aWtpcGVkaWEub3JnL3dpa2kvQmF0dGxlX29mX09raW5hd2E&ntb=1). The Americans bore over 49,000 casualties including 12,520 killed, while Japanese losses were even greater, with about 110,000 Japanese soldiers losing their lives (https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=4d649000748b1b4bJmltdHM9MTcxNjI0OTYwMCZpZ3VpZD0xOGUzN2JmNy05Y2VmLTZjMzgtMzhjYi02YjJlOThlZjZhZWYmaW5zaWQ9NjYyNQ&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=18e37bf7-9cef-6c38-38cb-6b2e98ef6aef&psq=okinawa+casualties+ww2&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaGlzdG9yeS5jb20vdG9waWNzL3dvcmxkLXdhci1paS9iYXR0bGUtb2Ytb2tpbmF3YQ&ntb=1)2 (https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=6c6823efcc7d45d6JmltdHM9MTcxNjI0OTYwMCZpZ3VpZD0xOGUzN2JmNy05Y2VmLTZjMzgtMzhjYi02YjJlOThlZjZhZWYmaW5zaWQ9NjYyNg&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=18e37bf7-9cef-6c38-38cb-6b2e98ef6aef&psq=okinawa+casualties+ww2&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaGlzdG9yeS5jb20vdG9waWNzL3dvcmxkLXdhci1paS9iYXR0bGUtb2Ytb2tpbmF3YQ&ntb=1). Civilians bore the highest toll, with over 300,000 deaths (https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=e73707eedd686f28JmltdHM9MTcxNjI0OTYwMCZpZ3VpZD0xOGUzN2JmNy05Y2VmLTZjMzgtMzhjYi02YjJlOThlZjZhZWYmaW5zaWQ9NjYyNw&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=18e37bf7-9cef-6c38-38cb-6b2e98ef6aef&psq=okinawa+casualties+ww2&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly9hbGx0aGF0c2ludGVyZXN0aW5nLmNvbS9iYXR0bGUtb2Ytb2tpbmF3YQ&ntb=1)3 (https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=4707878f3e8e22abJmltdHM9MTcxNjI0OTYwMCZpZ3VpZD0xOGUzN2JmNy05Y2VmLTZjMzgtMzhjYi02YjJlOThlZjZhZWYmaW5zaWQ9NjYyOA&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=18e37bf7-9cef-6c38-38cb-6b2e98ef6aef&psq=okinawa+casualties+ww2&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly9hbGx0aGF0c2ludGVyZXN0aW5nLmNvbS9iYXR0bGUtb2Ytb2tpbmF3YQ&ntb=1). More than 70,000 Japanese soldiers and Okinawan conscripts were killed defending the island (https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=21776ebc23aaf3bdJmltdHM9MTcxNjI0OTYwMCZpZ3VpZD0xOGUzN2JmNy05Y2VmLTZjMzgtMzhjYi02YjJlOThlZjZhZWYmaW5zaWQ9NjYyOQ&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=18e37bf7-9cef-6c38-38cb-6b2e98ef6aef&psq=okinawa+casualties+ww2&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cucGJzLm9yZy93Z2JoL2FtZXJpY2FuZXhwZXJpZW5jZS9mZWF0dXJlcy9wYWNpZmljLWNpdmlsaWFucy1va2luYXdhLw&ntb=1)4 (https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=419c363e79a72eaaJmltdHM9MTcxNjI0OTYwMCZpZ3VpZD0xOGUzN2JmNy05Y2VmLTZjMzgtMzhjYi02YjJlOThlZjZhZWYmaW5zaWQ9NjYzMA&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=18e37bf7-9cef-6c38-38cb-6b2e98ef6aef&psq=okinawa+casualties+ww2&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cucGJzLm9yZy93Z2JoL2FtZXJpY2FuZXhwZXJpZW5jZS9mZWF0dXJlcy9wYWNpZmljLWNpdmlsaWFucy1va2luYXdhLw&ntb=1). The estimated pre-war 300,000 local population of Okinawa saw 149,425 killed, died by suicide or went missing (https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=971d0b645fb47f1cJmltdHM9MTcxNjI0OTYwMCZpZ3VpZD0xOGUzN2JmNy05Y2VmLTZjMzgtMzhjYi02YjJlOThlZjZhZWYmaW5zaWQ9NjYzMQ&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=18e37bf7-9cef-6c38-38cb-6b2e98ef6aef&psq=okinawa+casualties+ww2&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly9lbi53aWtpcGVkaWEub3JnL3dpa2kvQmF0dGxlX29mX09raW5hd2E&ntb=1)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 21, 2024, 03:37:17 PM
An invasion of mainland Japan would have been rough.  The Japanese were starving as it was.  Just taking Okinawa was incredibly bloody for both sides.

The Battle of Okinawa was one of the bloodiest in the Pacific, with approximately 160,000 casualties combined (https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=fc1c1df6347c61d9JmltdHM9MTcxNjI0OTYwMCZpZ3VpZD0xOGUzN2JmNy05Y2VmLTZjMzgtMzhjYi02YjJlOThlZjZhZWYmaW5zaWQ9NjYyMw&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=18e37bf7-9cef-6c38-38cb-6b2e98ef6aef&psq=okinawa+casualties+ww2&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly9lbi53aWtpcGVkaWEub3JnL3dpa2kvQmF0dGxlX29mX09raW5hd2E&ntb=1)1 (https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=99c075e154ab13ecJmltdHM9MTcxNjI0OTYwMCZpZ3VpZD0xOGUzN2JmNy05Y2VmLTZjMzgtMzhjYi02YjJlOThlZjZhZWYmaW5zaWQ9NjYyNA&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=18e37bf7-9cef-6c38-38cb-6b2e98ef6aef&psq=okinawa+casualties+ww2&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly9lbi53aWtpcGVkaWEub3JnL3dpa2kvQmF0dGxlX29mX09raW5hd2E&ntb=1). The Americans bore over 49,000 casualties including 12,520 killed, while Japanese losses were even greater, with about 110,000 Japanese soldiers losing their lives (https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=4d649000748b1b4bJmltdHM9MTcxNjI0OTYwMCZpZ3VpZD0xOGUzN2JmNy05Y2VmLTZjMzgtMzhjYi02YjJlOThlZjZhZWYmaW5zaWQ9NjYyNQ&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=18e37bf7-9cef-6c38-38cb-6b2e98ef6aef&psq=okinawa+casualties+ww2&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaGlzdG9yeS5jb20vdG9waWNzL3dvcmxkLXdhci1paS9iYXR0bGUtb2Ytb2tpbmF3YQ&ntb=1)2 (https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=6c6823efcc7d45d6JmltdHM9MTcxNjI0OTYwMCZpZ3VpZD0xOGUzN2JmNy05Y2VmLTZjMzgtMzhjYi02YjJlOThlZjZhZWYmaW5zaWQ9NjYyNg&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=18e37bf7-9cef-6c38-38cb-6b2e98ef6aef&psq=okinawa+casualties+ww2&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaGlzdG9yeS5jb20vdG9waWNzL3dvcmxkLXdhci1paS9iYXR0bGUtb2Ytb2tpbmF3YQ&ntb=1). Civilians bore the highest toll, with over 300,000 deaths (https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=e73707eedd686f28JmltdHM9MTcxNjI0OTYwMCZpZ3VpZD0xOGUzN2JmNy05Y2VmLTZjMzgtMzhjYi02YjJlOThlZjZhZWYmaW5zaWQ9NjYyNw&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=18e37bf7-9cef-6c38-38cb-6b2e98ef6aef&psq=okinawa+casualties+ww2&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly9hbGx0aGF0c2ludGVyZXN0aW5nLmNvbS9iYXR0bGUtb2Ytb2tpbmF3YQ&ntb=1)3 (https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=4707878f3e8e22abJmltdHM9MTcxNjI0OTYwMCZpZ3VpZD0xOGUzN2JmNy05Y2VmLTZjMzgtMzhjYi02YjJlOThlZjZhZWYmaW5zaWQ9NjYyOA&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=18e37bf7-9cef-6c38-38cb-6b2e98ef6aef&psq=okinawa+casualties+ww2&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly9hbGx0aGF0c2ludGVyZXN0aW5nLmNvbS9iYXR0bGUtb2Ytb2tpbmF3YQ&ntb=1). More than 70,000 Japanese soldiers and Okinawan conscripts were killed defending the island (https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=21776ebc23aaf3bdJmltdHM9MTcxNjI0OTYwMCZpZ3VpZD0xOGUzN2JmNy05Y2VmLTZjMzgtMzhjYi02YjJlOThlZjZhZWYmaW5zaWQ9NjYyOQ&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=18e37bf7-9cef-6c38-38cb-6b2e98ef6aef&psq=okinawa+casualties+ww2&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cucGJzLm9yZy93Z2JoL2FtZXJpY2FuZXhwZXJpZW5jZS9mZWF0dXJlcy9wYWNpZmljLWNpdmlsaWFucy1va2luYXdhLw&ntb=1)4 (https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=419c363e79a72eaaJmltdHM9MTcxNjI0OTYwMCZpZ3VpZD0xOGUzN2JmNy05Y2VmLTZjMzgtMzhjYi02YjJlOThlZjZhZWYmaW5zaWQ9NjYzMA&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=18e37bf7-9cef-6c38-38cb-6b2e98ef6aef&psq=okinawa+casualties+ww2&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cucGJzLm9yZy93Z2JoL2FtZXJpY2FuZXhwZXJpZW5jZS9mZWF0dXJlcy9wYWNpZmljLWNpdmlsaWFucy1va2luYXdhLw&ntb=1). The estimated pre-war 300,000 local population of Okinawa saw 149,425 killed, died by suicide or went missing (https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=971d0b645fb47f1cJmltdHM9MTcxNjI0OTYwMCZpZ3VpZD0xOGUzN2JmNy05Y2VmLTZjMzgtMzhjYi02YjJlOThlZjZhZWYmaW5zaWQ9NjYzMQ&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=18e37bf7-9cef-6c38-38cb-6b2e98ef6aef&psq=okinawa+casualties+ww2&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly9lbi53aWtpcGVkaWEub3JnL3dpa2kvQmF0dGxlX29mX09raW5hd2E&ntb=1)
It would have been brutal.

I honestly think the worst part for America would have been turning US Soldiers and Marines into absolute monsters. The Japanese were training school children to effectively be kamikaze warriors by approaching Soldiers as if to ask for candy then detonating grenades when they were close enough. If that tactic had been employed the inevitable response would have been US Soldiers formally or informally adopting a "shoot first ask questions later" policy toward ALL Japanese civilians, even the children. Those guys would have done it, then had nightmares for decades about the Japanese children that they blew away.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 21, 2024, 05:55:36 PM
Yes the A-Bombs saved many GI lives,and if the IJF had it no doubt they wouldn't hesitate
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 22, 2024, 10:33:23 AM
15 May 1963: Mercury-Atlas 9 (MA-9), on Pad 14, prior to launching Gordon Cooper on the fourth American manned orbital mission.
Lying in his Faith 7 capsule during countdown, Cooper was so relaxed that he managed to nod off. He had another opportunity to sleep once in space because this 22-orbit mission was the first in American manned spaceflight history to last more than a day. (Vostok 2, however, holds the record for the first full-day manned mission of all.) 
During the flight, Cooper released a beacon sphere containing strobe lights – the first time a satellite had been deployed from a manned spacecraft – which he was able to see during his next orbit. He also spotted a 44,000-watt xenon lamp that had been set up as an experiment in visual observation in a town in South Africa. Cooper attempted twice unsuccessfully to deploy an inflatable balloon. Between orbits 10 and 14 he slept for about eight hours, later reporting that he had anchored his thumbs to his helmet restraint strap to prevent his arms from floating freely – a potential hazard with so many switches within easy reach.
On the 19th orbit a warning light came on indicating that the capsule had dipped to an unacceptably low altitude. However, further tests showed that the capsule was still in its proper orbit, leading to a conclusion that the warning system had failed, possibly due to a short-circuit caused by dampness in the electrical system. Fearing there might be more such short-circuits in the automatic reentry system, mission managers instructed Cooper to reenter under manual control – the only such reentry of all four Mercury orbital flights. In the event, Cooper did a fine job bringing his capsule to a splashdown just 7 kilometers from the prime recovery vessel. 
Cooper was the last American astronaut to orbit Earth alone. NASA had considered one more Mercury flight, but the Project officially ended on 12 June 1963, when NASA Administrator James Webb told the Senate Space Committee that no further Mercury missions were needed, and that NASA would press ahead with the Gemini and Apollo programs.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 22, 2024, 12:06:54 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/1HDFpnw.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on May 22, 2024, 01:05:04 PM
The US is still in the top 3 of oil producing nations in the world.  We're in there with Russia, Saudi, and Canada.  I think right now we may even be #1, but we've never fell out of the top 5-10.  We just happen to consume a lot of oil as well so we end up being net importers.  

I'm almost positive the US (US companies) is the one who discovered oil in the ME, dating back to the 1930's.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 22, 2024, 01:14:35 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/QSAZPwc.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 22, 2024, 01:15:50 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/aSPwGik.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on May 22, 2024, 01:22:43 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/QSAZPwc.jpeg)
Venezuela? 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 22, 2024, 01:32:59 PM
Venezuela's crude oil production has fallen from about 3.2 million b/d in 2000 to 735,000 b/d in September 2023, making it the 10th-largest producer in OPEC despite its significant oil reserves. U.S. crude oil imports from Venezuela similarly declined, falling from 1.3 million b/d in 2001 to about 510,000 b/d in 2018.[color=var(--IXoxUe)]Oct 23, 2023[/color]
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 22, 2024, 01:44:00 PM
The Sumerians looked to the heavens as they pioneered the system of timekeeping, a legacy still in use today. One might wonder why we divide hours into 60 minutes and days into 24 hours, rather than using a base-10 or base-12 system. The reason lies in the Sumerians' adoption of a sexagesimal (base-60) system, which suited their understanding of celestial movements.

To the ancient Sumerian innovators, 60 was an ideal number because it could be evenly divided by 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 12, 15, 20, and 30—providing versatility in measurement. Furthermore, early astronomers estimated there were 360 days in a year, neatly dividing into 60 six times. Although the Sumerian Empire eventually faded, their method of timekeeping has endured for over 5,000 years, shaping how we perceive and measure time.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 22, 2024, 03:04:29 PM
Matt Damon started writing "Good Will Hunting" (1997) as a final assignment for a playwriting class he was taking at Harvard University. Instead of writing a one-act play, Damon submitted a 40-page script. He wrote his then-girlfriend, medical student Skylar Satenstein (credited in the closing credits of the film), into his script (Satenstein later married Metallica drummer Lars Ulrich). Damon said the only scene from that script that survived — "it survived verbatim" — was when Will Hunting (Damon) meets his therapist, Sean Maguire (Robin Williams) He then came to Ben Affleck and asked him to develop the screenplay together, and the two completed the script in 1994. At first, it was written as a thriller about a young man in the rough-and-tumble streets of South Boston who possesses a superior intelligence and is targeted by the government with heavy-handed recruitment.
Castle Rock Entertainment bought the script for $675,000 against $775,000, meaning that Damon and Affleck would stand to earn an additional $100,000 if the film was produced and they retained sole writing credit. Castle Rock president Rob Reiner urged them to drop the thriller aspect of the story and to focus on the relationship between Will and his therapist. Terrence Malick told Affleck and Damon over dinner that the film ought to end with Will's decision to follow his girlfriend Skylar to California, not them leaving together.
At Reiner's request, screenwriter William Goldman read the script. Goldman consistently denied the persistent rumor that he wrote Good Will Hunting or acted as a script doctor. In his book "Which Lie Did I Tell?" Goldman jokingly writes, "I did not just doctor it. I wrote the whole thing from scratch," before dismissing the rumor as false and saying his only advice was agreeing with Reiner's suggestion.
Affleck and Damon proposed to act in the lead roles, but many studio executives said they wanted Brad Pitt and Leonardo DiCaprio. Meanwhile, Kevin Smith was working with Affleck on Mallrats and with both Damon and Affleck on "Chasing Amy" (1997). Castle Rock put the script in turnaround, and gave Damon and Affleck 30 days to find another buyer for the script who would reimburse Castle Rock the money paid, otherwise the script reverted to the studio, and Damon and Affleck would be out. All the studios that were involved in the original bidding war for the screenplay now turned the pair down, taking meetings with Affleck and Damon only to tell them this to their face. As a last resort, Affleck passed the script to his "Chasing Amy" director Kevin Smith, who read it and promised to walk the script directly into Harvey Weinstein's office at Miramax. Weinstein read the script, loved it, and paid Castle Rock their due, while also agreeing to let Damon and Affleck star in the film. In his recollection of the meeting, Weinstein asked about an out-of-place, mid-script oral sex scene, which Damon and Affleck explained was a test to see which studio executives had actually read the script.
The very first day of the shooting, Matt Damon and Ben Affleck started crying out of happiness, because it was a scene between Robin Williams and Stellan Skarsgård, accomplished actors, doing Damon's and Affleck's scene verbatim, and they had waited so long (five years) for this to happen.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 22, 2024, 03:17:00 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/uoMha97.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 23, 2024, 07:24:21 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/C3p841b.png)

British Troops of the 7th Green Howards, 69th Infantry Brigade, 50th (Northumbrian) Infantry Division with an Ordnance QF 6-pounder anti-tank gun cover a lane near Lingèvres Normandy France - June 1944

Designed in the UK before WW2, the Ordnance QF 6-pounder didn’t enter service until 1942, first being deployed in North Africa.
The 6-pounder design was also adopted by the US Army as the “57 mm Gun M1” and entered production in the USA.



The Ordnance Quick-Firing 17-pounder (or just 17-pdr) was a 76.2 mm (3 inch) gun developed by the United Kingdom during World War II.

The latter was a quite effective British design later fitted to special Shermans called the Firefly.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 23, 2024, 09:14:05 AM
Storeroom at Solar aerodrome, Stavanger, holding some of the estimated 30,000 Mauser rifles taken from German forces in Norway after their surrender ✯

(https://i.imgur.com/jKVsOiR.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 24, 2024, 07:27:01 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/yUDjx9d.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 24, 2024, 07:44:48 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/6mudSEj.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 24, 2024, 08:04:59 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/9wPE46d.png)

Being used in the SEC tournament apparently for safety.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 24, 2024, 08:12:10 AM
safety just means more
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 24, 2024, 02:48:02 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Cq9DbOM.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: ELA on May 24, 2024, 03:31:50 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/9wPE46d.png)

Being used in the SEC tournament apparently for safety.
We use it through coach pitch for the same reason.  I like it because they are still far enough away from taking it seriously, and don't run that hard.  Plus half the kids don't pay enough attention, and stand directly on the base when playing first.

But we ran into one tournament last summer where they had it, and even by age 10, the kids playing tournament ball know how to run, and we had a kid roll his ankle landing in the middle of the two bags.  Even worse, we had an ump call a ball that hit the runner bag fair because it "hit the bag".  He wasn't even arguing it hit first base, his thought was the bag was the bag.  That's up there with the call like 15 years ago where the pylon got knocked over, and the Michigan WR was way out of bounds, but inadvertantly landed on the knocked over pylon, and the ref said the pylon is in bounds.  Like wherever on earth that pylon is, it's in bounds.

That's some Happy Gilmore "play it where it lies" rule interpretation
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 25, 2024, 01:11:23 PM
Karl Marx (1818 – 1883) was the German philosopher and radical socialist whose Communist Manifesto and Das Kapital formed the basis of Marxism, and revolutionized the world for better and for worse. Born in Prussia, he experimented with sociopolitical theories in university, and by the 1840s had become a radical journalist. His writings were viewed as dangerous by the authorities. In the span of a few years he was expelled from Germany, France, Belgium, then Germany again, before he found refuge in London. There, he settled and lived for the remainder of his life.

Marx received a doctorate in 1841, but his politics kept him from getting a teaching job, so he took to journalism. He founded a correspondence committee to link European socialists. That inspired English socialists to form the Communist League, and ask Marx and Engels to write a platform for their party. The result was the Communist Manifesto, published in 1848. Shortly thereafter, Marx was expelled from Belgium. He went back to France, which also expelled him. He returned to Prussia, but by then he had been stripped of his citizenship, and the authorities refused to re-naturalize him. So he ended up in London in 1849. On his deathbed in 1883, as he lay expiring from pleurisy (or acute bronchitis), he was solicited for last words. He replied with his last breath: “Go on! Get Out! Last words are for fools who haven’t said enough!”
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 26, 2024, 08:04:17 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Andrew Johnson Avoids Impeachment by One Vote (1868)
Johnson became president following Abraham Lincoln's assassination. When he attempted to dismiss his Secretary of War without senatorial consent, congressional leaders—for the first time in US history—sought to remove the president from office. Their first attempt failed, but in 1868, the House passed a resolution of impeachment against him. During the trial, the charges proved weak, and the two-thirds vote needed for conviction failed by one vote.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 26, 2024, 08:18:26 AM
He didn't avoid impeachment, he avoided conviction in the Senate.  He was impeached.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on May 26, 2024, 12:13:31 PM
“In 1936 and 1937 the Highway Department came out and talked to Papa about —told him they wanted to plan a road to go all the way from Tucker right on up to the face of Stone Mountain (https://www.facebook.com/Stone-Mountain-Park-102264006495897/?__tn__=kK*F), and that would run right through his fifteen hundred acres of land. And they talked about buying the land, they talked about condemnation of the land, to build the road. I was always very close to my papa; we practiced law together for twenty years.

“I respected my papa very much, but I really thought he had lost his mind when I heard him tell these engineer — state engineers — that if they needed roadway to build a road all the way to Stone Mountain, they could have it. Free. I later heard him tell the [iurl defaultattr= https://www.facebook.com/georgiapower?__tn__=-"]K*F"]Georgia Power[/iurl] Company people, “Free.” Southern Bell people, “Free.” The DeKalb County water people, “Free.” Now, I really thought he had lost his mind.

“He had all of this land here; and yet, when I realized that by giving this land away, he was encouraging the opening up of some fifteen hundred acres of land — which, as you know, is very free out there now — turned out to be a very, very wise move. The road was finished in 1938.

“That was the same year that Papa made an unsuccessful race for governor against Ed Rivers. Gene Talmadge was running against Walter George; Papa was running against Ed Rivers. We held our breaths, just in case Ed Rivers —Governor Ed Rivers —would all of a sudden find out about this road and stop it during this political campaign. Well, I don’t know if he knew about it or didn’t know about it; I don’t know. But he didn’t stop the road. And so Hugh Howell Road was finished in 1938.”
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 27, 2024, 07:54:00 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Le Paradis Massacre (1940)
The Le Paradis massacre was a WWII war crime committed by German soldiers under the command of officer Fritz Knöchlein. After becoming isolated from their regiment and running out of ammunition during the Battle of France, a group of British soldiers surrendered to German troops. They were then led across the road, lined up against a wall, and shot. Ninety-seven British troops died. Two survived and hid, but they were captured several days later.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 28, 2024, 09:00:25 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/obsfhpV.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 28, 2024, 09:48:29 AM
Poverty Sucks
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 28, 2024, 10:51:33 AM
In accordance with Navy tradition, submariners are thrown over the side of their boats to commemorate special occasions such as qualifying for their submarine dolphin insignia or ending a war patrol with an advancement in rating.

In 1960, six submariners from USS Amberjack (SS-522) who had earned their dolphins were thrown overboard just as a destroyer passed nearby. Unfamiliar with the tradition, the captain of the destroyer signaled "WHAT HAPPENED?" Amberjack responded "UNSHINED SHOES."


(https://i.imgur.com/UQ2i2Gc.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 29, 2024, 07:42:59 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
The Battle of Legnano (1176)
In 1160, Holy Roman Emperor Frederick I Barbarossa was excommunicated for his support of a series of antipopes against Pope Alexander III. In 1167, the communes of Lombardy in northern Italy formed an alliance to resist Frederick. The Lombard League soundly defeated Frederick's forces in the Battle of Legnano, after which Frederick reconciled with the pope and made peace with the Lombard cities.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 29, 2024, 10:16:10 AM
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-guinness-brewery-invented-the-most-important-statistical-method-in/

This combines weird history, science, and brewing, perfect for this board. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 29, 2024, 06:07:40 PM



In 458 BC, Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus, a retired Roman patrician living a modest life on his small farm, was called upon to save Rome from a dire military crisis. The Roman army, trapped by the Aequi on Mount Algidus, prompted the Senate to appoint Cincinnatus as dictator. When the Senate's envoys arrived at his farm, they found him plowing his fields. Without hesitation, Cincinnatus left his work, donned his toga, and accepted the call to duty. He swiftly organized a relief army, led a decisive victory against the Aequi, and rescued the besieged Roman forces.

Remarkably, after just 15 days, Cincinnatus resigned his dictatorship and returned to his farm, embodying the Roman ideal of civic virtue and humility. His willingness to leave his plow to serve the state and promptly return to it after fulfilling his duty made him a symbol of selfless leadership. This story became a powerful example of placing the common good above personal ambition, influencing later historical figures like George Washington, who was often compared to Cincinnatus for his leadership and relinquishment of power after the American Revolution.
(https://i.imgur.com/I1gKtkJ.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 29, 2024, 06:23:32 PM
The Movie "Death Hunt"(1981) with Charles Bronson and Lee Marvin was loosely based on this

https://history.howstuffworks.com/historical-figures/mad-trapper-rat-river.htm
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 30, 2024, 07:25:29 AM
https://history.howstuffworks.com/history-vs-myth/james-deans-car-cursed.htm
What Happened to James Dean's Car After the Wreck?

The Porsche was declared a total loss and was sent to a salvage yard. William Eschrich, who knew Dean from racing, had been specifically looking for Little Bastard and found the car in Burbank. He kept the engine and put it in his own Lotus IX race car, then gave the transmission and suspension parts to his friend and fellow racer Troy Lee McHenry.

Setting off a string of creepy coincidences, just 11 months after Dean's death, both Eschrich and McHenry crashed at the same race — the 1956 Pomona Road Races — while driving the cars with Little Bastard parts. Eschrich survived, but McHenry's crash — a collision with the only tree on the racetrack — was fatal.

By then, the Dean's Porsche had pretty much been picked over and not many usable parts remained, yet there was plenty of mischief still left in the car.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 30, 2024, 07:42:26 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Old West Outlaw Pearl Hart Robs a Stagecoach (1899)
Hart was an American outlaw whose notoriety stemmed primarily from the fact that she was female. Her early life was fairly ordinary. She grew up wealthy and eloped at 16. In 1893, after seeing Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show, she left her abusive husband and went west, where she acquired a taste for cigars, liquor, and morphine. In 1899, she helped rob a stagecoach, making away with over $400. She was apprehended, escaped, was recaptured, and then tried for her crimes.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on May 30, 2024, 07:52:54 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
Old West Outlaw Pearl Hart Robs a Stagecoach (1899)
Hart was an American outlaw whose notoriety stemmed primarily from the fact that she was female.
Evidently an early advocate of woman's equality
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 30, 2024, 08:03:32 AM
Sister Morphine encouraged her
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 31, 2024, 08:24:01 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Union of South Africa Created (1910)
In 1910, the British colonies of Cape Colony, Transvaal, Natal, and Orange River were unified into the new Union of South Africa. Under the Union's constitution, power was centralized. Elections were held, and Louis Botha became the first prime minister. The Dutch language was given equal status with English, and each province retained its existing franchise qualifications. The Union became independent and withdrew from the Commonwealth
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 31, 2024, 03:50:46 PM
The robe and axe of Giovanni Battista Bugatti, the official executioner for the Papal States from 1796 to 1864. Throughout his nearly seven decade term of service, he carried out 514 executions.

(https://i.imgur.com/mbC81e8.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on May 31, 2024, 10:18:28 PM
NEW YORK (AP) — Following his unprecedented felony conviction, former president and presumptive Republican nominee Donald Trump has to wait to find out what his sentence will be. But even if it involves time behind bars, that doesn’t mean his campaign to return to the White House comes to an end.

He wouldn’t even be the first candidate to run for that office while imprisoned. That piece of history belongs to Eugene V. Debs, who ran on the Socialist Party ticket in 1920 — and garnered almost a million votes, or about 3 percent.

The circumstances are obviously different. Debs, despite his influence and fame, was effectively a fringe candidate that year; Trump has already held the office and is running as the near-certain nominee of one of the country’s two major political parties. But there are similarities, too.

WHO WAS DEBS?
Debs, born in 1855, became a strong voice advocating for labor causes from the time he was a young man. A staunch union member and leader, he was first sent to prison for six months following the 1894 Pullman rail strike, on grounds he violated a federal injunction against the strike.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 01, 2024, 07:31:14 AM
For many Icelanders, WW2 is known as the blessed war because Iceland has the war to thank for its independence.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 01, 2024, 07:33:44 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Farhud Begins (1941)
During the Farhud, the pogrom carried out against the Jewish population of Baghdad after the fall of the short-lived pro-Nazi government of Rashid Ali, rioters killed about 200 Jews and injured hundreds more. It took place during the Jewish holiday of Shavuot, and, according to some, marked a turning point for Iraq's 150,000 Jews, who were thereafter targeted for persecution. Jews had lived in Iraq since about 600 BCE, but by 1951, 80% had left.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 02, 2024, 09:46:51 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Pontiac's Rebellion: Ojibwas Capture Fort Michilimackinac (1763)
In 1763, immediately after the French and Indian Wars, several Native American tribes allied against the British in an uprising that became known as Pontiac's Rebellion, after the Ottawa leader Pontiac. They captured and destroyed many British outposts. On the day of the surprise attack on Fort Michilimackinac, the Ojibwas, or Chippewas, approached the fort without arousing suspicion among the watching British soldiers by staging a game of baaga'adowe
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 03, 2024, 07:57:10 AM
on this day

1888 Baseball poem "Casey at the Bat" 1st published by the San Francisco Examiner

1989 Beginning of the Tiananmen Square Massacre as Chinese troops open fire on pro-democracy supporters in Beijing

1939 "Beer Barrel Polka" by Will Glahe hits #1 on the pop singles chart

1972 "Hot Rod Lincoln" by Commander Cody & His Lost Planet Airmen hits #9
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 03, 2024, 08:03:57 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Valerie Solanas Attempts to Assassinate Andy Warhol (1968)
In the mid-1960s, American pop-art icon Andy Warhol began to devote much of his time and energy to filmmaking, producing marathon films on boredom and voyeurism that featured deliberately coarse amalgams of sexuality and banality. In 1968, he was shot and wounded by Valerie Solanas, a feminist writer who had appeared in one of his films. Warhol never fully recovered from the shooting and died from complications following surgery in 1987.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 03, 2024, 08:05:13 AM
https://youtu.be/MBUfNxfc2w4
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 04, 2024, 08:17:44 AM
https://youtu.be/iCLPtSMTXug
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 04, 2024, 08:44:49 AM
FACT OF THE DAY:

General Electric is the only company remaining from the original Dow Jones index of 1896 with it's original name.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 04, 2024, 08:52:53 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Riot at Ten-Cent Beer Night (1974)
In a disastrous effort to increase ticket sales, the Cleveland Indians decided to hold a "Ten-Cent Beer Night," allowing attendees to purchase unlimited cups of beer for just 10 cents each, during a home game against the Texas Rangers. The promotion did boost attendance, however, it also created a stadium full of drunken spectators who disrupted early innings of the game with streaking and flashing. Eventually, a violent mob flooded the field and clashed with players.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Temp430 on June 04, 2024, 10:13:40 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Riot at Ten-Cent Beer Night (1974)
In a disastrous effort to increase ticket sales, the Cleveland Indians decided to hold a "Ten-Cent Beer Night," allowing attendees to purchase unlimited cups of beer for just 10 cents each, during a home game against the Texas Rangers. The promotion did boost attendance, however, it also created a stadium full of drunken spectators who disrupted early innings of the game with streaking and flashing. Eventually, a violent mob flooded the field and clashed with players.

If I'm not mistaken it was also free bat night.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 04, 2024, 12:08:53 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Riot at Ten-Cent Beer Night (1974)
Older brother and his buddies went - good times,he had just graduated from Kent State so they celebrated in style.Yes sir nothing like draft Blatz,Duke or Schmidt's and GOT to keep the commerative plastic cups,too! The two teams brawled like a week or two before so prolly not a good nite to sell cheap suds.Can't believe they somehow missed a rendezvous with the Paddy Wagon and a cell mate named Bubba
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 04, 2024, 03:27:45 PM
FACT OF THE DAY:

General Electric is the only company remaining from the original Dow Jones index of 1896 with it's original name.
The name hasn't changed but everything else sure has.  They've bought and sold a multitude of subsidiaries and just recently split themselves into three entities.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 04, 2024, 09:12:03 PM
Yup no longer radios/Tvs/Stereos or any appliances,not sure if they sold off the lighting division.Anything with defense industry now,sad and shameful really use to put alot of people in homes with a decent living. As John Mellancamp sang "And son I'm just sorry - There's just memories for you now"
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 06, 2024, 08:18:37 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Joseph Bonaparte Named King of Spain (1808)
The elder brother of Napoleon, Joseph Bonaparte served as king of Naples during Napoleon's reign, abolishing feudalism and reorganizing the judicial, financial, and educational systems. He was named king of Spain in 1808, but his reforms there were less successful, and he abdicated in 1813 and returned to France. After Napoleon's defeat at Waterloo, Joseph lived in the US and later in Italy.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 06, 2024, 09:13:08 AM
It isn't really "weird history" but 80 years ago today about 160,000 American, British, and Canadian soldiers assaulted Hitler's Atlantic Wall at Normandy France.  About 10,000 didn't live to see sunset.  Remember them today.  That generation is all but gone now.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 06, 2024, 09:21:04 AM
It isn't really "weird history" but 80 years ago today about 160,000 American, British, and Canadian soldiers assaulted Hitler's Atlantic Wall at Normandy France.  About 10,000 didn't live to see sunset.  Remember them today.  That generation is all but gone now. 
There are only 10 or so guys left alive now, who were actually there fighting.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 06, 2024, 03:30:41 PM
ON THIS DATE (49 YEARS AGO)
June 6, 1975 – The Rolling Stones: Made in the Shade is released.

Made in the Shade is a compilation album by The Rolling Stones, released on June 6, 1975. It reached #6 on the Billboard 200 Top LP's & Tape chart, and #14 on the UK Albums chart. It came out the same day as the ABKCO collection Metamorphosis and was also seen to be cashing in on The Rolling Stones' summer Tour of the Americas. Made in the Shade draws entirely from their first four albums on that label.
The Stones had two previous "official" compilation albums on Decca Records, Big Hits (High Tide and Green Grass) in 1966 and Through The Past, Darkly (Big Hits Vol. 2) in 1969. In addition, 1971's Hot Rocks 1964-1971 and 1972's More Hot Rocks (Big Hits & Fazed Cookies) were released by Allen Klein's ABKCO Records with The Rolling Stones' authorization. The material on Made in the Shade surveys the highlights from the band's post-Decca/London era thus far, from 1971's Sticky Fingers to It's Only Rock 'n' Roll from 1974, with no new material.
Although Made in the Shade bought The Rolling Stones time to deliver their next studio album (they were mid-way through recording Black and Blue upon this album's June 1975 release), it also featured Ronnie Wood for the first time in Mick Taylor's place. Wood, fitting in so well, was asked to remain in the band on a permanent basis following the tour's conclusion.
__________
REVIEW
Stephen Thomas Erlewine, allmusic
Released in the summer of 1975, in the down period between Mick Taylor's departure and as the Stones were auditioning guitarists during the recording of 1976's Black and Blue (coincidentally, the '60s rarities comp Metamorphosis also came out in the summer of 1975), Made in the Shade offers a perfunctory summary of the Stones' records from the first half of the '70s. With the exception of their 1974 cover of the Temptations' "Ain't Too Proud to Beg" (presumably left off the LP so Mick and Keith would have all the publishing here), all the U.S. hits from 1971 through 1974 are here -- "Brown Sugar," "Wild Horses," "Happy," "Tumbling Dice," "Angie," "Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo (Heartbreaker)," "It's Only Rock 'n Roll" -- and they're balanced out with some sharp, hard-driving album tracks like "Dance Little Sister," "Rip This Joint," and "Bitch," the latter of which was played enough on the radio and in concerts to seem like one of their genuine hits. So, it's not a bad collection, but it's not a necessary one either, since the albums it anthologizes are pretty great on their own terms -- 1971's Sticky Fingers and 1972's Exile on Main St. are two of the greatest albums of the 20th century -- and such latter-day anthologies as Jump Back and Forty Licks cover this half of the '70s, plus the second half of the '70s, in a more thorough fashion. Nevertheless, if you happen to have it lying around your house, or can pick it up for a couple of bucks, Made in the Shade is pretty much guaranteed to give you a good time if you play it -- it's just that there are better ways to hear this terrific music.
TRACKS:
All songs by Mick Jagger and Keith Richards.
Side one
"Brown Sugar" – 3:50
"Tumbling Dice" – 3:44
"Happy" – 3:04
"Dance Little Sister" – 4:10
"Wild Horses" – 5:41
Side two
"Angie" – 4:31
"Bitch" – 3:37
"It's Only Rock 'n Roll (But I Like It)" – 5:07
"Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo (Heartbreaker)" – 3:27
"Rip This Joint" – 2:23


(https://i.imgur.com/5bfOR56.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on June 06, 2024, 04:01:18 PM
I should put this on the unpopular opinions thread (maybe I already have) but I really, REALLY don't like the Rolling Stones.  Any Stones song other than "Paint It Black" comes on the radio and it's an instant channel-change.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 06, 2024, 04:07:17 PM
I change the channel or turn the volume off for Journey and Fleetwood Mac
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on June 06, 2024, 04:12:38 PM
I love Journey but I'm with you on Fleetwood Mac.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 06, 2024, 08:28:43 PM
5 Things You Didn’t Know About Johnnie Walker Black Label


Johnnie Walker is the world’s bestselling scotch whisky brand. Whiskies including the signature Black Label expression have been satisfying scotch whisky drinkers for over a century, with a skilfully balanced sweet-smoky flavour profile.

If you’ve ever been curious about this monumentally popular scotch whisky, we explore Black Label’s origins, naming story, and the whiskies included in the blend. Here are five things you didn’t know about the iconic Johnnie Walker Black Label.

John Walker’s son, Alexander Walker originally created Johnnie Walker Black Label

Alexander Walker was responsible for many innovations at Johnnie Walker, including the square bottle.
The Johnnie Walker legacy began when the brand’s namesake, John Walker, established a grocery and spirit merchants shop in Kilmarnock, Scotland in 1820. Initially selling made-to-order blended whiskies and single malts, John Walker created and marketed his own brand of blended malt, ‘Walker’s Kilmarnock Whisky’ in 1850.

Following John Walker’s death in 1857, his son, Alexander Walker inherited the business, committing the company as a dedicated whisky blender, and laying the foundations for the development and long-term success of the Johnnie Walker brand. In 1865, Alexander Walker created the future Johnnie Walker Black Label, and the first true Johnnie Walker expression, registering the blend’s copyright and recipe in 1867.



Alexander Walker also implemented many of the iconic features of the future Johnnie Walker brand, introducing the distinctive square-sided bottle for bottling John Walker & Sons company blends from 1860. This decision was initially made to enable more bottles to be packed in a small space for transport during export, and to reduce breakages.

The Johnnie Walker brand’s distinctive slanted label was trademarked by Alexander Walker in 1877. Applied at an angle of 24 degrees, it was designed to attract attention from consumers and remains a defining characteristic of Johnnie Walker whisky.

Johnnie Walker Black Label was originally named ‘Old Highland Whisky’

An Extra Special Old Highland Whisky with a Black Label from the 1930s.
Johnnie Walker Black Label was first sold as ‘Old Highland Whisky’ when Alexander Walker created the blend in 1865.

In 1906, the blend was renamed as ‘Extra Special Old Highland’ when Alexander Walker’s sons, Alexander II, and George P. Walker expanded the Old Highland blended whisky range to three expressions in ascending age order; Old Highland, Special Old Highland, and Extra Special Old Highland. Featuring white, red, and black labels respectively, the Old Highland range became known amongst consumers by label colour.

George P. Walker and company managing director James Stevenson sought to overhaul the Old Highland brand’s marketing, approaching famous cartoonist and illustrator Tom Browne to design a new mascot in 1908. Browne allegedly drew the first iconic ‘Striding Man’ design on a menu during the meeting with Walker and Stevenson.

In 1909, the Old Highland range was rebranded under the new trademarked brand name, Johnnie Walker. The rebranding process resulted in the ‘Extra Special Old Highland’ blend becoming Johnnie Walker’s signature Black Label expression, a product name that has endured for over a century.

By 1920, Black Label whisky was available in 120 countries. 

Johnnie Walker Black Label is created using up to 40 different whiskies

Johnnie Walker Black Label is a blend of up to 40 malt and grain whiskies from distilleries across Scotland.


Black Label’s prominent initial flavors of sweet fruits and toffee give way to a peaty smoky finish. This is evident of a balance between Islay region whiskies, alongside subtler contributions from Speyside and Highland distilleries to produce a consistently reliable blend since 1865.

Black Label’s core malt whisky elements originate from the Blair Athol, Cardhu, Strathmill, and Caol Ila distilleries. Cameronbridge Distillery supplies the main grain whisky component for the blend.

As Johnnie Walker Black Label carries an age statement of 12 years, each whisky used to compose the blend must first have been matured for a minimum of 12 years.

Winston Churchill enjoyed Johnnie Walker Black Label


British Prime Minister and Second World War leader, Winston Churchill has gained a notorious reputation for his alcohol intake, which included scotch whisky mixed with soda water drank throughout the day. Churchill’s scotch whisky of choice was Johnnie Walker, either Black Label or Red Label.

An avid painter, Churchill also included a bottle of Johnnie Walker Black Label in two of his paintings, ‘Jug with Bottles’ (1915) and ‘Bottlescape’ (1926). Depicting a distinctive Black Label bottle alongside a glass jug, ‘Jug with Bottles’ was gifted to an American envoy in the 1930’s, and later sold at auction for approximately $1.3 million in 2020. The Impressionist-style still life, ‘Bottlescape’ which portrays a collection of alcohol bottles remains on display at Winston Churchill’s Chartwell estate.   

Johnnie Walker Black Label is a Popular Culture Icon
Johnnie Walker Black Lable Blade Runner 2049
The Johnnie Walker Black Label Blade Runner 2049. Credit: Whisky Auctioneer
Johnnie Walker Black Label whisky has had a significant cultural impact, mentioned in numerous songs, and appearing in TV shows and iconic films. Heavy metal band, Black Label Society is named after Black Label whisky, as group founder Zakk Wylde is an avowed fan of the expression.

A futuristic version of the Black Label whisky appears in Ridley Scott’s cult science fiction film Blade Runner (1982), which features Harrison Ford as burnt-out former police officer Rick Deckard.

In Blade Runner, Deckard is seen enjoying Johnnie Walker Black Label whisky, bottled in distinctive geometric style square bottles, in several scenes. When Harrison Ford reprised his role in the long-awaited sequel Blade Runner 2049 (2017), Deckard once again drinks Black Label when he encounters replicant ‘K’ (Ryan Gosling).

Celebrating the release of Blade Runner 2049, Diageo collaborated with filmmaker Denis Villeneuve to create the limited-edition expression Johnnie Walker Black Label Director’s Cut.

Presented in a 21st Century geometric style bottle reminiscent of the Blade Runner film bottles, Director’s Cut contains more than 30 whiskies and is bottled at a stronger 49% ABV (referencing the film’s 2049-year setting), with only 39,000 bottles released globally.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 07, 2024, 09:10:39 AM
It isn't really "weird history" but 80 years ago today about 160,000 American, British, and Canadian soldiers assaulted Hitler's Atlantic Wall at Normandy France.  About 10,000 didn't live to see sunset.  Remember them today.  That generation is all but gone now. 
"The eyes of the world are upon you … The hopes and prayers of liberty loving people everywhere march with you. Your task will not be an easy one … Your enemy is well trained, well equipped and battle hardened, he will fight savagely … I have full confidence in your courage, devotion to duty and skill in battle. We will accept nothing less than full victory!" Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower, Supreme Commander Allied Expeditionary Force, Message to the troops on June 6, 1944
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2024, 03:59:37 PM
June 7, 1982
The Braves select SS Urban Meyer from St. John's High School in Ashtabula, Ohio in the 13th round of the draft.
Meyer hits .182 across two seasons in the Gulf Coast and Appy Leagues and decides to pursue other things.



(https://i.imgur.com/RdVpRKM.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 07, 2024, 04:32:07 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/hGTEuoV.png)

Population might be a better metric.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 07, 2024, 10:42:45 PM
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/eGN_VMIzfBo?feature=share
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 08, 2024, 07:49:07 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
US Postal Service's First and Only Delivery of "Missile Mail" (1959)
In 1959, the US Navy assisted the US Post Office Department—predecessor of today's US Postal Service—in its search for a faster form of mail transportation. The USPS tried its first and only delivery of "missile mail" when a Navy submarine fired a guided cruise missile containing 3,000 pieces of mail off the Florida coast. Twenty-two minutes later, the missile landed at a naval station in Mayport, Florida.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 08, 2024, 09:44:07 AM
The history of Savannah's river port begins with slave grown rice and cotton for the triangle trade to timber and pulp at the turn of the century. In the past decades the Port of Georgia has become a modern container port which is the only port in the United States that exports almost as much as it imports. Yet the buildings on what remains of the now endangered historic landmark river street have only survived by accident. By the early 1900s what is now river street was largely abandoned as the ports moved up and down river. Today it is a hub of tourism and hotel development. This essay reveals how while Savannah's port infrastructure grew and continues to thrive outside the historic city, the ports earliest architectures some dating back to the early 19th century were almost entirely lost and what remains of its historic fabric, and more importantly its actual history remain fragile.

The remaining historic structures are largely downriver (east) of city hall. These were built for the slave trade. Since 17
Savannah exported slave-grown local rice and some Sea Island cotton (1992 Joyce Chaplin). The 1834 arrival of the railroad allowed what was then the capital of Georgia to export slave-grown cotton from the interior. In addition to crops, Savannah was home to the largest industrial plantation in the country. The McCalprin plantation (now demolished), with over 400 slaves, cut lumber and produced most of the bricks that built Savannah prior to the Civil War.

The enslaved people in Savannah built virtually all of the buildings in the city up to 1861 without compensation. Following the war, their descendants continue to provide most of the construction labor.  The surviving structures from the slave trade include the Barracoons (Now known as the Cluskey Embankment), John Stoddard's Upper and Lower Range Warehouses, begun in 1858 along with a small handful of 1850s warehouses. Later buildings include the 1876 Thomas Gamble Building, the 1886 Cotton Exchange (now Masonic Lodge), by William Preston. By 1874 exports expanded beyond cotton to include naval stores derived from the abundant southern pine forest, including pitch, resin, timber, and turpentine. By 1883 the port had expanded beyond the original waterfront to the west.

(https://i.imgur.com/D3jddKE.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 08, 2024, 11:33:35 AM
Armoured carriers and aircraft capacity.
When talking about the British armored carriers, it is often said that the protection was bought at the expense of aircraft capacity.
This is only half true.
The British Illustrious class aircraft carriers entered service in the years between the Yorktown and Essex class aircraft carriers. For this reason, the Illustrious class are often compared to them.
Compared to the Yorktown class, the  Illustrious class was slightly larger, having a design displacement of 23,000 tons vs 20,000 tons for the American carrier. However, the Yorktown class carried over 80 aircraft in service while the Illustrious class carried about 40 aircraft.
Even HMS Indomitable, a modification of the Illustrious class with a larger double stacked hangar (designed specifically to carry more aircraft), typically carried 48 aircraft in service.
A very large difference between the British and American carriers.
Typically it is said that this difference In aircraft capacity is due to the armored design of the British carrier. However, while the design of the Illustrious class did limit the size of the hangar, it was not that much of a difference.
Compared to the Yorktown class, the Illustrious class had a hangar that was slightly over 80% the size of the American carrier. The double hangar Indomitable actually had more space for aircraft than the Yorktown class. 
So why the huge difference in aircraft capacity?
The difference in capacity comes down to American carriers having a full time deck park. A deck park is the system of storing aircraft on the flightdeck and outside of the hangar.
The United States, in its quest to maximize the offensive capability of its carriers, carried more aircraft by carrying extra planes on the flight deck in addition to the normal complement inside the hangar.
Depending on the aircraft, carrier class, and ratio of aircraft types, the US Carriers carried as much as 25% to 35% of their aircraft on the flightdeck in a deck park.
It is less to do with the hangar capacity and more to do with the fact that the US Navy used its flightdeck for aircraft storage while the Royal Navy did not.
It's also worth pointing out that the Royal Navy did eventually adopt a similar deck park to increase the aircraft complement aboard its carriers (especially once they began to operate in the Pacific).
When utilizing a full time deck park, the Illustrious class saw their aircraft complement increase to 57 aircraft. HMS Indomitable remained at around 55 aircraft (no info on whether she received a deck park) while the Implacable class, based on Indomitable, rose to a capacity of just over 80 aircraft at the end of WW2, matching the Yorktown class. 
Factoring in the deck park, the British armored carriers were not that far behind the US Carriers in aircraft capacity.
*Note* The Essex class also used a full time deck park, allowing them to carry up to 110 aircraft. This, coupled with the fact that they were designed to an even larger 30,000 ton design, means that their capacity was vastly higher than the earlier British carriers. Hardly a fair comparison though it is often used when discussing the various carriers.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 08, 2024, 09:35:43 PM
Vince Lombardi. One of the Seven Blocks of Granite at Fordham University in the 1930s

(https://i.imgur.com/avF7q90.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 09, 2024, 08:13:04 AM
The Praetorian Guard

Initially used for the protection of Roman generals, the Praetorian Guard became the emperor's personal guard during the rule of Augustus, first leader of the Roman Empire. Upon his death in 14 CE, however, the Guard began to use its military strength to enforce its own political agenda. Soon, it moved into Rome, where it assassinated emperors, bullied its own prefects, and fought vicious street battles against Roman citizens.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 09, 2024, 08:28:41 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/NZAjTk1.png)

CV-2, the original Lexington, was equipped originally with 8" guns, in addition to being a carrier.  They were removed early in 1942 and replaced with 5" gun mounts.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 10, 2024, 08:52:16 AM
1974 Playboy pre-season All American Team. 
Huskers - #73 Marvin Crenshaw and #54 Rik Bonness representing!

(https://i.imgur.com/EtRsJAx.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 10, 2024, 08:54:48 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Alcoholics Anonymous Founded (1935)
Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) is an international organization dedicated to helping alcoholics stop drinking and maintain their sobriety. It functions through local groups that meet regularly and emphasizes a 12-step recovery program that includes acknowledgment of the problem, faith in a "higher power," and a desire to change for the better and to help others recover. The organization was founded in 1935 by two alcoholics
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 10, 2024, 08:55:09 AM
I remember when that was "a thing of some note".  I read the stories.  Do they still publish Playboy as a magazine?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 10, 2024, 09:08:55 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/bLBNc9G.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 10, 2024, 09:17:59 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Y9m1QIm.png)

I visited there a while back, it's barely a hill of any note.  Had it been in the country I would not have noticed it as any hill at all.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 10, 2024, 09:19:59 AM
Massachusetts  |  Jun 17, 1775

The American patriots were defeated at the Battle of Bunker Hill, but they proved they could hold their own against the superior British Army. The fierce fight confirmed that any reconciliation between England and her American colonies was no longer possible.

How it ended
British victory. The battle was a tactical victory for the British, but it was a sobering experience. The British sustained twice as many casualties as the Americans and lost many officers. After the engagement, the patriots retreated and returned to their lines outside the perimeter of Boston.

In context
By early 1775 tensions between Britain and her colonies had escalated. The colonists began to mobilize for war, while the British Army secured gunpowder and cannon in anticipation of an uprising. On April 19, it all came to a head in the Massachusetts towns of Lexington and Concord.  After that historic engagement, the British retreated to their camp in Boston, and local militias prepared for future British attacks. Militiamen marched to defend Boston, some from as far away as Connecticut, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, and what is now the state of Vermont.
British Commander-in-Chief General Sir Thomas Gage was under pressure to quash the colonial rebellion. By June, he had reinforcements and was ready to implement a new strategy. The British Army planned to launch an attack against the Americans on the heights north and south of Boston. Details of the attack were leaked, however, and a detachment of 1,000 Massachusetts and Connecticut soldiers—more of an armed mob than a military unit—gathered to defend a hill in Charlestown. Among the defenders were several enslaved and free African Americans as well. The violent clash of these forces on what is mistakenly known as “Bunker Hill” signaled that the colonial revolt would not be easily extinguished.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 10, 2024, 09:21:21 AM
June 17. On this sultry afternoon, Gage and his commanders order British regulars and grenadiers to move across Boston Harbor and disembark in lower Charlestown, where Gage will force the rabble’s hand with an assault. As the British move into position, the fatigued but spirited defenders are on the alert inside their hastily built fortifications.
Led by Gen. William Howe, King George’s troops climb Breed’s Hill in perfect battle formation. Legend has it that as they advance, American officer William Prescott cautions his men not to waste their powder, exclaiming “don’t fire until you see the whites of their eyes.” When British troops near the redoubt, the patriots unleash a withering volley, creating an absolute slaughter. One patriot remarks afterward, “They advanced toward us in order to swallow us up, but they found a choaky[sic] mouthful of us.” It is a veritable bloodbath as the British retreat back to their lines.

Once more the British push up the hill, stepping over the bodies of their dead and wounded comrades who lay “as thick as sheep in a fold,” and again they receive another patriot volley. Finally, on the third try –and just when the patriots run out of powder and shot—the British succeed in breaking through the patriot works. Intense hand-to-hand fighting occurs inside the fortification. The British are victorious but at a cost. At some point in the struggle, a “black soldier named Salem” is credited with killing British Maj. John Pitcairn, the officer despised for allegedly ordering his men to fire on patriots during the battle of Lexington and Concord weeks earlier.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 10, 2024, 10:15:19 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/BoHqGgD.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 10, 2024, 10:29:52 AM
https://youtu.be/D4WAUmyKDq0
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on June 10, 2024, 11:04:15 AM
Man you're all about the PBR today...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 10, 2024, 11:12:21 AM
a great American beer!

I drink it occasionally when Bud Fat is not available
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on June 10, 2024, 11:13:14 AM
So gross
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 10, 2024, 11:15:04 AM
it's better than Miller Lite, Coors light, bud light, Mich Ultra
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on June 10, 2024, 11:16:59 AM
Coors Light is better than all of those, but mostly just because it has so little flavor, there's nothing about it that can be offensive.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 10, 2024, 11:19:20 AM
it's not really even beer
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on June 10, 2024, 11:20:27 AM
it's not really even beer
Yup.  It's what beer drinkers drink when they're not drinking beer. :)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on June 10, 2024, 11:21:53 AM
It's great for hydrating between beers.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 10, 2024, 11:56:17 AM
yes, I do that on the golf course when the heat index hits triple digits
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: LetsGoPeay on June 10, 2024, 11:57:57 AM
I should put this on the unpopular opinions thread (maybe I already have) but I really, REALLY don't like the Rolling Stones.  Any Stones song other than "Paint It Black" comes on the radio and it's an instant channel-change.
I do this for Dave Matthews. Can't stand it. It's an instachange for me. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 10, 2024, 04:09:51 PM
Ed “the Claw” Sprinkle. Chicago Bears. HOF.
“The Meanest Man in Football.” Premier pass rusher. “Quarterbacks would look with only one eye for receivers. They kept the other eye on Sprinkle." - Y.A. Tittle

"We were meaner then because there were fewer positions and we fought harder for them. It was a different era." - Ed Sprinkle


(https://i.imgur.com/aqq3D9s.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 10, 2024, 05:27:50 PM
The Harvey Girls: The Women Who Civilized the West
In the early 1870s, an adventurous English traveler named Fred Harvey proposed a visionary plan to the Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe Railway. His mission was to establish high-quality dining establishments along the newly laid railroad tracks connecting Kansas to the golden shores of California. Addressing the pressing issue of quality food services for the railroads, Santa Fe officials eagerly listened to Harvey's proposal. In an extraordinary agreement, they offered to provide buildings, transport food, furnish establishments, and supply necessary staff, all free of charge.
Harvey was assured a significant share of the profits, setting the stage for a partnership destined for triumph.
The first Harvey house opened its doors in 1876, amidst memories of Custer's Last Stand, when the Wild West truly lived up to its name. This restaurant quickly became a resounding success. With deep pockets and impeccable taste, Harvey enticed accomplished French chefs from the fine dining establishments of the East, rewarding them with handsome salaries. Remarkably, one of these culinary maestros earned more than the local bank president.
But Harvey's innovation didn't stop there. In an era when it was often claimed that there were no "ladies west of Dodge City and no women west of Albuquerque," Fred Harvey aimed to change the narrative. He searched for young women aged 18 to 30 with strict criteria: good character, attractiveness, and intelligence. These women soon became the backbone of his service.
Affectionately referred to as "Biscuit Shooters" by the cowboys of the time, these young ladies played a vital role in Harvey's venture. Interestingly, Harvey seemed to prefer hiring those considered plain in appearance, believing they were more likely to honor their contracts. It was also observed that the less comely ones tended to stay out of trouble. Contracts were signed for one-year terms, yet very few remained single. This amusing phenomenon led to a witty saying attributed to Will Rogers: "Fred Harvey kept the West in food and wives," or Fred Harvey kept the West both well-fed and well-wed.


(https://i.imgur.com/yxzppwp.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 10, 2024, 06:35:37 PM
This was Las Vegas in 1947

(https://i.imgur.com/lFM8yAT.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 10, 2024, 07:26:39 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
Alcoholics Anonymous Founded (1935)
Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) is an international organization dedicated to helping alcoholics stop drinking and maintain their sobriety. It functions through local groups that meet regularly and emphasizes a 12-step recovery program that includes acknowledgment of the problem, faith in a "higher power," and a desire to change for the better and to help others recover. The organization was founded in 1935 by two alcoholics
Gonna have to lift one for them
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 11, 2024, 08:17:03 AM
The pop-up bread toaster was invented in 1919 in Stillwater, Minnesota by Charles Strite.

(https://i.imgur.com/efQXi3f.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 11, 2024, 08:30:26 AM
'The hell I feared no man. There was one man, he was even smaller than I , and I wouldn't fight him because I knew he would flatten me. I was afraid of Sam Langford.' - Jack Dempsey
'Sam Langford was the toughest little son of a b**** that ever lived.' - Jack Johnson
'My old trainer, Jack Blackburn, told me that Sam Langford was the best of those old-timers, and he saw them all.' - Joe Louis
'He was a marvellous fighting man, I'd venture to say unbeatable in his prime.' - Harry Wills
'Sam Langford was the greatest fighting machine I have seen. He could box, he could hit, he could out-think his rivals and display the most consummate ring generalship the sport yet has seen. When Langford hit you on the button, there was no need to wait and count over the fallen fighter. - Charley Rose
'Having had more than my fair share of Sam's fists during the six rounds I fought with him in London, I can say he was easily the hardest hitter l ever met, and probably the hardest of all time.' - Bill Lang


(https://i.imgur.com/VH7seBt.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2024, 02:32:30 PM
Secretariat - Belmont Stakes 1973 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG_27cCW5bw)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 11, 2024, 06:38:02 PM
https://www.culwell.com/blogs/the-history-of-seersucker-suits
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 12, 2024, 08:08:21 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Ronald Reagan Challenges Mikhail Gorbachev to "Tear Down This Wall" (1987)
The Berlin Wall was erected in 1961 by the East German government and later extended along the entire border between East and West Germany. Built to prevent defections, it became a symbol of the Cold War. In 1987, US President Reagan visited Berlin to commemorate the city's 750th anniversary and used his speech to publicly challenge Gorbachev to destroy the wall. Two years later, it was dismantled in a failed bid by the Communists to retain power.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2024, 08:11:59 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Y9G2beO.png)

10 Earth impact craters you must see | Space (https://www.space.com/10-earth-impact-craters-you-should-visit)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 12, 2024, 08:21:08 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/pcrVAy0.png)

The Wisconsin next to the righted Oklahoma, a WW 1 era BB, showing the size difference.

(https://i.imgur.com/LsOi7NQ.png)

The Missouri today at her berth as a museum ship.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 13, 2024, 10:27:04 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The New York Times Begins Publication of the Pentagon Papers (1971)
The Pentagon Papers were top secret government documents detailing US involvement in SE Asia from WWII to 1968. In 1971, a former government employee leaked portions of the 47-volume study, which revealed both miscalculation and deception on the part of US policymakers, to The New York Times, which began publishing articles about it. Citing national security, the Justice Department obtained an injunction against further publication, and the case went to the Supreme Court.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 13, 2024, 02:12:27 PM
1940-41 Rabun Gap Nacoochee School basketball team. No names.(https://i.imgur.com/M0Q9ABH.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 14, 2024, 08:58:32 AM
FACT OF THE DAY:

Until 1948, 7-Up contained "lithium citrate," a mood stabilizer used to treat bipolar disorder.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 14, 2024, 09:04:38 AM
FACT OF THE DAY:

Until 1948, 7-Up contained "lithium citrate," a mood stabilizer used to treat bipolar disorder.
Maybe they should go back to that.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 14, 2024, 09:07:05 AM
The Bulgar migrations and settlements after the decline of Old Great Bulgaria in the 7th century
Fall of the Old Great Bulgaria (665) and migration of Bulgarians.
The Bulgars were Turkic semi-nomadic warrior tribes that flourished in the Pontic-Caspian steppe and the Volga region during the 5th-7th century.
They became known as nomadic equestrians in the Volga-Ural region, but some researchers believe that their ethnic roots can be traced to Central Asia.
During their westward migration across the Eurasian Steppe, the Bulgar tribes absorbed other tribal groups and cultural influences in a process of ethnogenesis, including Iranic, Finno-Ugric, and Hunnic tribes.
The Bulgars spoke a Turkic language, the Bulgar language of the Oghuric branch.  They preserved the military titles, organization, and customs of Eurasian steppes  as well as pagan shamanism and belief in the sky deity Tangra.
The Bulgars became semi-sedentary during the 7th century in the Pontic-Caspian steppe, establishing the polity of Old Great Bulgaria c. 630-635, which was defeated by the Khazar Empire in 668 AD.
In 681, Khan Asparukh conquered Scythia Minor, opening access to Moesia, and established the Danubian Bulgaria - the First Bulgarian Empire, where the Bulgars became a political and military elite.
They merged subsequently with established Byzantine populations, as well as with previously settled Slavic tribes, and were eventually Slavicized, thus becoming one of the ancestors of modern Bulgarians.
The remaining Pontic Bulgars migrated in the 7th century to the Volga River, where they founded the Volga Bulgaria; they preserved their identity well into the 13th century.
The modern Volga Tatars, Bashkirs and Chuvash people claim to have originated from the Volga Bulgars.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 14, 2024, 09:07:54 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Vatican Abolishes Index Librorum Prohibitorum (1966)
Compiled by official Roman Catholic censors, Index Librorum Prohibitorum—"List of Prohibited Books"—was a catalog of works considered dangerous to the faith or morals of Catholics. The Index was never a complete catalog of forbidden reading; rather, it contained only works that the ecclesiastical authority was asked to act on. The first catalog of banned books to be called an index was published in 1559. Its publication ceased in 1966
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 14, 2024, 11:44:41 AM
[img width=274.381 height=431]https://i.imgur.com/pcrVAy0.png[/img]
The Wisconsin next to the righted Oklahoma, a WW 1 era BB, showing the size difference.
[img width=274.381 height=281]https://i.imgur.com/LsOi7NQ.png[/img]
The Missouri today at her berth as a museum ship.
You can barely see a bit of it at the left edge in that picture but the USS Arizona Memorial is just off the Missouri's bow. There is a lot of symbolism in that. For one thing, it is as if the Mighty Missouri guards the tomb of those killed on December 7, 1941. For another, the spot where the war ended with Japan's surrender is on the Missouri's deck so today the spot where they started the war is in view of the spot where it ended.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 14, 2024, 11:56:07 AM
You can barely see a bit of it at the left edge in that picture but the USS Arizona Memorial is just off the Missouri's bow. There is a lot of symbolism in that. For one thing, it is as if the Mighty Missouri guards the tomb of those killed on December 7, 1941. For another, the spot where the war ended with Japan's surrender is on the Missouri's deck so today the spot where they started the war is in view of the spot where it ended.
Excellent comment here.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 14, 2024, 11:58:26 AM
17 Facts You Don't Know About Iran:

1. Iran is home to one of the world's oldest continuously inhabited cities, Susa, which dates back over 6,000 years.
2. The world's highest number of nose jobs per capita is recorded in Iran, making cosmetic surgery surprisingly common.
3. Iran boasts one of the world's oldest monotheistic religions, Zoroastrianism, which dates back over 3,500 years and influenced the development of other major religions.
4. The city of Tabriz in Iran was the capital of the Mongol Ilkhanate in the 13th century and served as a major hub on the Silk Road.
5. Iran is one of the few countries in the world where hand-chopping is still used as a form of punishment for certain crimes.
6. Tehran, Iran's capital, is the second-largest city in Western Asia, after Istanbul.
7. Iranian cuisine is incredibly diverse, with each region boasting its own distinct culinary traditions, such as the spicy and aromatic cuisine of Gilan in the north.
8. Iran has one of the world's largest populations of Persian leopards, which are endangered and mainly inhabit the Alborz and Zagros Mountains.
9. Iran is home to one of the world's oldest universities, the University of al-Qarawiyyin in Qom, founded in 859 AD.
10. Despite its largely desert climate, Iran is home to over 7,000 plant species, many of which are endemic to the region.
11. Iran has a rich tradition of poetry, with poets like Hafez and Rumi being celebrated worldwide for their profound and lyrical verses.
12. The ancient city of Yazd in central Iran is known for its unique wind towers, which have been used for centuries to provide natural ventilation in buildings.
13. Iran is one of the few countries in the world where women outnumber men in higher education, with more women enrolled in universities than men.
14. The traditional Persian New Year, Nowruz, is celebrated on the spring equinox and has been observed for over 3,000 years.
15. Iran has the highest number of female students studying engineering and science at the undergraduate level compared to any other country in the world.
16. The Iranian city of Isfahan was once one of the largest cities in the world and served as the capital of the Persian Empire under the Safavid dynasty.
17. Iran is home to one of the world's oldest bazaars, the Grand Bazaar of Tehran, which dates back over 200 years and spans over 10 kilometers of labyrinthine alleys and bustling market stalls.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 14, 2024, 12:20:34 PM
https://www.ky3.com/2024/06/14/ozarks-life-wwii-veteran-is-only-son-civil-war-soldier-still-alive/?outputType=amp

That is weird history!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 14, 2024, 02:29:03 PM
Happy 79th Birthday to Ron Argent -born 14 June 1945

Played the piano and keyboards in the Zombies, Argent was one of the group's two main songwriters, penning the hits "She's Not There", "Tell Her No", and "Time of the Season", amongst others.

After the band broke up, he went on to form the band Argent, which had a hit  "Hold Your Head Up".  Argent's first album included the song "Liar" he composed which became a hit for Three Dog Night.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 15, 2024, 08:38:55 AM
FACT OF THE DAY:

Pirates probably didn't wear eyepatches because of a missing eye; it's much more likely that they were keeping one eye ready to see in darkness so that they could quickly adjust when going below deck.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 15, 2024, 08:40:25 AM
I've been below deck on  the USS Constitution (A great visit if you're there).  It was pretty well lit with sunlight coming through ports.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 15, 2024, 08:47:34 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
King John of England Signs the Magna Carta (1215)
The Magna Carta—Latin for "Great Charter"—was signed by King John under pressure from his barons. Resentful of high taxes and aware of the king's waning power, the barons demanded a solemn grant of their rights. Among the charter's provisions were clauses reforming law and controlling the behavior of royal officials. Though it reflects the feudal order rather than democracy, the Magna Carta is traditionally considered the foundation of British constitutionalism.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 15, 2024, 09:05:32 AM
The Roebling Suspension Bridge crosses the Ohio River in downtown Cincinnati, connecting the city to Covington, Kentucky, on the south side of the river. Constructed in 1867, the bridge is one of the most historically important bridges in the United States. Of the bridges designed by prominent early bridge engineer John Roebling in the middle of the nineteenth century, only three remain. One of those, the Delaware Aqueduct, was not designed as a traffic bridge, and only carries traffic today after numerous modifications and reconstructions over the past 170 years. The other two remaining Roebling bridges are the world-famous Brooklyn Bridge and this bridge in Cincinnati.

(https://i.imgur.com/Q3w0Rki.png)

This was the first bridge over the Ohio River, started before the Civil War but construction was halted.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 15, 2024, 10:52:08 AM
They reall y don't make 'em like they use to
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 16, 2024, 10:41:39 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/y7zmfWS.png)

US T-28 assault vehicle, meant to be able to assault heavy fortifications in Europe and withhstand normal antitank rounds.

It was VERY slow and difficult to transport, never saw action or production beyond 2 vehicles.

But neat looking.  Weighted 95 tons, heavier than an M1A2.

https://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.php?armor_id=331
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 16, 2024, 11:40:14 AM
Karl Marx was a German philosopher, economist, historian, political theorist, and revolutionary socialist. Born on May 5, 1818, in Trier, Germany, Marx is best known for his critique of capitalism and his theory of historical materialism.

Marx, along with Friedrich Engels, co-authored the famous pamphlet "The Communist Manifesto" in 1848. This work became one of the most influential political texts in history, advocating for the overthrow of capitalist society by the working class (proletariat) and the establishment of a classless, stateless society based on common ownership of the means of production.
Marx's analysis of history emphasized the role of economic factors in shaping societies and their development over time. He argued that history is characterized by class struggle between the ruling class (bourgeoisie) and the working class, with each epoch marked by different modes of production and corresponding social relations.
In addition to the Manifesto, Marx's major work, "Das Kapital," published in three volumes between 1867 and 1883, delves deeply into the dynamics of capitalism, exploring its contradictions, exploitation of labor, and the inevitability of its eventual collapse.
Marx's ideas and theories laid the foundation for modern socialist and communist movements worldwide. While some of his predictions and prescriptions have been debated and modified over time, his critiques of capitalism and advocacy for social change continue to influence political and economic thought to this day. Marx died on March 14, 1883, but his legacy remains highly influential in fields ranging from economics and sociology to political science and philosophy.


"The perfect system for perfect people ..."

China today seems to me to be crony capitalism with heavy government involvement.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 19, 2024, 11:31:17 AM
-There is an old Hotel/Pub in Marble Arch, London, which used to have a
gallows adjacent to it.  Prisoners were taken to the gallows (after a
fair trial of course!) to be hanged.
The horse-drawn dray, carting the prisoner, was accompanied by an
armed guard, who  would stop the dray outside the pub and ask the
prisoner if he would  like ''ONE LAST DRINK''.
If he said YES, it was referred to as ONE FOR THE ROAD.
If he declined, that Prisoner was ON THE WAGON.

-They used to use urine to tan animal skins, so families used to all
pee in a pot and t hen once a day it  was taken and sold to the
tannery.
If you had to do this to survive you were "piss poor".
But  worse than that were the really poor folk, who  couldn't even
afford to buy a pot, they "Didn't  have a pot to piss in" and were the
lowest of  the low.
The next time you are washing your hands and complain because the
water temperature isn't just how you like it, think about how things
used to  be.............

-Here are some facts about England in the 1500s:
Most people got married in June, because they took  their yearly bath
in May and they still smelled  pretty good by June.!!
However, since they were starting to smell, brides carried a bouquet
of flowers to hide the body odour.
Hence the custom today of carrying a bouquet when getting married.


-Baths consisted of a big tub filled with hot water.
The man of the house had the privilege of the nice clean water,  then
all the other sons and men, then the women and finally the children.
Last of all the babies. By then the water was so dirty you could
actually lose someone in it.!
Hence the saying,
"Don't throw the baby out with the bath water!"
 

-Houses had thatched roofs, thick straw piled high, with no wood
underneath.
It was the only place for animals to get warm, so all the cats and
other small animals (mice, bugs) lived in the roof.
When it rained it became slippery and sometimes the animals would
slip and fall off the roof.  Hence the saying "It's raining cats and
dogs."


-There was nothing to stop things from falling into the house.
This posed a real problem in the bedroom,
where bugs and other droppings could mess up your nice clean bed.
Hence, a bed with big posts and a sheet hung over the top afforded
some protection.
That's how canopy beds came into existence


-The floor was dirt. Only the wealthy had something other than dirt.
Hence the saying, "dirt poor."
The wealthy had slate floors that would get slippery in the winter
when wet, so they spread thresh (straw) on floor to help keep their
footing.
As the winter wore on they added more thresh until, when you opened
the door,  it would all start slipping outside.
A piece of wood was placed in the entrance.
Hence: a thresh hold. (Getting quite an education, aren't you?)


-Sometimes they could obtain pork, which made them feel quite special.
When visitors came over they would hang up their bacon, to show off.
It was a sign of wealth that a man could, "Bring home the bacon."
They would cut off a little to share with guests and would all sit
around talking and ''chew the fat''.


-Those with money had plates made of pewter.
Food with high acid content caused some of the lead to leach onto the
food, causing lead poisoning and death.
This happened most often with tomatoes.
So for the next 400 years or so, tomatoes were considered poisonous.


-Bread was divided according to status.
Workers got the burnt bottom of the loaf,
The family got the  middle, and guests got the top, or ''The Upper
Crust''.


-Lead cups were used to drink ale or whisky.
The combination would sometimes knock the imbibers out for a couple of
days. Someone walking along the road would take them for dead and
prepare them for burial. They were laid out on the kitchen table for a
couple of days and the family would gather around and eat and drink
and  wait and see if they would wake up.
Hence the custom of ''Holding a Wake''.


-England is old and small and the local folks started  running out of
places to bury people, so they  would dig up coffins and would take
the bones to a bone-house and reuse the grave.!
When reopening these coffins, 1 out of 25 coffins were found to have
scratch marks on the inside and they realised they had been burying
people alive. So they would tie a string on the wrist of the corpse,
thread it through the coffin and up  through the ground and tie it to
a  bell.  Someone would have to sit out in the graveyard all night
(the graveyard shift) to listen for the bell;  thus someone could be,
''Saved by the Bell ''or  was considered a ''Dead Ringer''
And that's  the truth.!!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 20, 2024, 08:33:42 AM
Fascinating and Intriguing Facts About US Geography We Never Learned Until Now (travellergazette.com) (https://travellergazette.com/fascinating-facts-about-us-geography-is/9/)

Fascinating and Intriguing Facts About US Geography We Never Learned Until Now
by Alison Campbell (https://travellergazette.com/author/alison-campbell/)
(https://travellergazette.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/44-1-1024x1024.jpg)

Ah, America, land of the free and home of some of the most beautiful and natural ancient sights on the planet. The United States holds a special place in our hearts. With a broad climate ranging from deserts to swamps to mountain ranges, there is something for everyone. But what are we looking at, you ask? That’s the big question, and that’s why we’re here with several facts about America’s geography to help us all appreciate our country just a little bit more as we learn about all its hidden little details.


1. Don’t Mess With Our Boats
This vast, natural “highway system” has significantly facilitated the nation’s development, offering unparalleled advantages over other countries. However, the secret behind this impressive statistic lies in America’s broad definition of “navigable waterway.”
(https://travellergazette.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/1-1-1024x1024.jpg)

Unlike elsewhere, the U.S. classifies even seasonal creeks, flowing just a few months annually, as navigable. While the country truly enjoys a wealth of genuinely navigable waterways, it also appears to be stretching the definition to its limits.

2. The Best State to Launch From

Surprisingly, the closest U.S. state to Africa is Maine, not Florida as many might guess. Despite its northern location, Maine’s proximity to Africa is roughly equivalent to the distance from Florida to California, debunking common misconceptions about geography.


(https://travellergazette.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/2-1-1024x1024.jpg)


This intriguing fact arises from the Earth’s tilt and the spherical shape of our planet, leading to unexpected geographical truths. The shortest distance between the U.S. and Africa is approximately 5,076 kilometers (3,154 miles), stretching from Quoddy Head in Maine to El Beddouza in Morocco.



3. Mountains Competing against Mountains

The towering peaks of Mount Rainier in Washington, Mount Elbert in Colorado, and Mount Whitney in California are marvels of nature, each standing within a mere 100 feet of each other’s height, despite their locations in three distinct mountain ranges.


(https://travellergazette.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/3-1-1024x1024.jpg)


Intriguingly, both the highest (Mount Whitney) and the lowest point (Death Valley) in the contiguous United States are located within the same California county, offering adventurous souls the unique opportunity to explore these extreme places in a single day.




4. Can’t Build on Water

Despite the common perception that Canada is larger than the United States, when considering land area alone, the US actually surpasses its northern neighbor. The total area of a country is divided into land area and water area, revealing the crucial detail that places the U.S. ahead.

Editorial content















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(https://travellergazette.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/4-1-1024x1024.jpg)


Canada’s vast lakes and internal waters contribute significantly to its overall size, but when focusing purely on land, Canada encompasses 9.094 million square kilometers, slightly less than the U.S.’s 9.148 million square kilometers. This distinction highlights the importance of distinguishing between total surface area and land area when comparing the sizes of countries.




ADVERTISEMENT

5. Pointing in Two Different Directions

Situated in Guam and St. Croix in the Virgin Islands, respectively, these points highlight a fascinating aspect of U.S. territory. This naming coincidence honors the Udall family, prominent in American politics.


(https://travellergazette.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/5-1-1024x1024.jpg)


While the Point Udall in Guam marks the westernmost reach of U.S. soil in the Pacific, its counterpart in St. Croix claims the title of the easternmost point in U.S. territory in the Caribbean. This curious fact not only showcases the vast span of U.S. territories across the globe but also symbolizes the unity between distant parts of the nation, linked by a shared name and national heritage.



6. Strangely Shaped States

Arkansas holds a unique geographical quirk among the United States: from any point along its border, traveling due south will lead you into a neighboring state. This includes states that, at first glance, might not seem accessible in this manner due to their position on the map. For instance, although Missouri is primarily north of Arkansas, a journey southward from the town of Piggott in Arkansas will indeed bring you into Missouri.


(https://travellergazette.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/6-1-1024x1024.jpg)


Each of Arkansas’s surrounding states—Missouri, Tennessee, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, Oklahoma, and even the southeastern corner of Kansas—can be entered by heading south from specific points within Arkansas’s borders.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 20, 2024, 08:51:40 AM
That definition of navigable water we have here sucks for guys like me.

Almost every development we work on these days has a hydraulic connection to a navigable waterway, which means we have to get a permit from the Army Corps. That is not fun.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 20, 2024, 08:55:04 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Tennis Court Oath (1789)
In the first days of the French Revolution, the deputies of the Third Estate were locked out of their usual meeting hall at Versailles. Believing that their newly formed National Assembly was to be disbanded, they met at a nearby tennis court and took an oath not separate until a constitution was established for France. The oath was an assertion that power came from the people not the monarch, and their solidarity forced King Louis XVI to concede.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 20, 2024, 09:17:56 AM
Ernest Rutherford discovered alpha and beta radiation, postulated the concept of the nucleus and founded the field of nuclear physics.
Regarded as one of the best experimental physicists, he was awarded the Nobel Prize in Chemistry in 1908 for his investigations into the disintegration of the elements and the chemistry of radioactive substances.

[color=var(--secondary-text)](https://i.imgur.com/hMxXFX1.png)
[/color]

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 20, 2024, 09:19:00 AM
Kinda funny seeing these old dudes in a laboratory wearing a suit and tie.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 20, 2024, 09:28:07 AM
work attire 

Way to go Earnest
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 20, 2024, 09:30:17 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/AjD1ndb.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 20, 2024, 01:40:07 PM
The Edmonton Swastikas, a Canadian girls' hockey team, 1916.

(https://i.imgur.com/NOs9DPx.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 20, 2024, 11:28:01 PM
racists 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 20, 2024, 11:51:52 PM
Don Rickles meets Joe Gallo
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ajkOKMEqjiA?feature=share
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 21, 2024, 07:12:09 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
US Captures Guam from Spain (1898)
Visited by Ferdinand Magellan in 1521, Guam was formally claimed by Spain in 1565 and remained under Spanish control until 1898, when it was taken by the US in the Spanish-American War. Because the Spanish garrison on the island had no knowledge of the war, the US sent a single Navy cruiser, the USS Charleston, and was able to capture Guam without a fight. At the end of the war, Guam was officially ceded to the US under the Treaty of Paris.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 22, 2024, 09:25:32 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

HMS Victoria Accidentally Rammed and Sunk (1893)
The HMS Victoria was a Royal Navy battleship that collided with another Royal Navy battleship, the HMS Camperdown, near Tripoli, Lebanon, during maneuvers. The Victoria capsized and quickly sank, killing 358 crew members, including the commander of the British Mediterranean Fleet, Vice-Admiral Sir George Tryon. In 2004, after a decade-long search, a Lebanese diver located the wreckage in 492 ft (150 m) of water.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 23, 2024, 07:28:06 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Glassboro Summit Conference Begins (1967)
The Glassboro Summit Conference was a meeting between US President Lyndon Johnson and Soviet Premier Aleksei Kosygin that took place at Hollybush mansion at Glassboro State College in New Jersey. Although the two leaders failed to reach agreement on anything important, the generally friendly atmosphere of the summit became known as the "Spirit of Glassboro" and is believed to have somewhat improved Soviet-US relations.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 24, 2024, 07:45:56 AM
1812 Napoleon Bonaparte's Grand Armée numbering half a million begin their invasion of Russia by crossing the Nieman River

1853 US President Franklin Pierce signs the Gadsden Purchase, buying 29,670 square-miles from Mexico for $10 million - now southern Arizona and New Mexico
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2024, 07:51:18 AM
1812 Napoleon Bonaparte's Grand Armée numbering half a million begin their invasion of Russia by crossing the Nieman River
This is also the day the Nazi regime invaded "Russia", with somewhat similar results.

There is a theory that Mussolini's invasion of Greece caused Hitler to set back the invasion by a critical 2-3 weeks.  That may not be true.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 24, 2024, 08:49:27 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

One of the First Major Outbreaks of St. John's Dance (1374)
Germany was the site of one of the first outbreaks of dancing mania, a phenomenon seen primarily in mainland Europe between the 14th and 17th centuries. During such outbreaks, groups of up to thousands of people would dance uncontrollably, screaming, shouting, and claiming to have visions until they collapsed from exhaustion. Initially considered a curse sent by a saint, usually St. John the Baptist, it was called "St. John's Dance."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 24, 2024, 10:51:53 AM


S-A-A-TAN!!!
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-JMCCRwTmG2A%2FU60IWX3R9tI%2FAAAAAAAADHs%2F5dB0w_O1mwk%2Fs1600%2FScreen%2BShot%2B2014-06-26%2Bat%2B10.45.34%2BPM.png&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=2619491adb16c0c84196ecd0c148b6d7e3018ed3ab6c5f86757208a585efb121&ipo=images)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-JMCCRwTmG2A/U60IWX3R9tI/AAAAAAAADHs/5dB0w_O1mwk/s1600/Screen+Shot+2014-06-26+at+10.45.34+PM.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 24, 2024, 11:12:34 AM
St. John's Dance | Europeana (https://www.europeana.eu/en/stories/st-johns-dance-why-cant-they-stop-dancing)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 25, 2024, 08:07:51 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Korean War Begins (1950)
After WWII, Korea was divided at the 38th parallel, with Soviet forces occupying the north and US forces occupying the south. Negotiations to reunify the two zones failed, and in 1950 the North invaded the South. US President Harry Truman ordered troops to assist South Korea, and the UN backed the mission. As UN troops advanced across North Korea, the People's Republic of China intervened, pushing them back to the original boundary at the 38th parallel.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2024, 08:10:51 AM
The initial phase of the Korean War was very nearly a US/UN loss.  The troops we had available nearby were basically garrison units from Japan used to just sitting around watching.  North Korean forces pushed them into the Pusan Perimeter which was barely held.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 25, 2024, 08:17:21 AM
interesting to wonder if the world would be much different today if Korea would have been unified by the north in the early 50s
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 25, 2024, 08:20:08 AM
Another war we should not have entered.

China benefitted the most from that conflict.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 25, 2024, 08:25:10 AM
I understand that there was a thought and fear that communism would spread worldwide but, how realistic was that?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2024, 08:26:40 AM
You might extrapolate from what has happened in say Vietnam, which turned "communist", or China, as well.  THey morph into something else.  I hear Vietnam is doing pretty well today.

South Korea is impressive, North Korea is a total mess.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2024, 08:28:04 AM
I understand that there was a thought and fear that communism would spread worldwide but, how realistic was that?
It was somewhat realistic, but as I note above, had it happened more broadly, it probably would not have been disastrous, or not as bad as the wars we fought.

Korea technically was a UN war.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2024, 09:05:42 AM
The US of course worried mightly about Cuba.  I've been to Havana, it's a mess, really, people begging in the streets, delapidated old buildings housing 10 families, these ancient cars puffing around smoking like crazy.  "Communism" has to morph into crony capitalism to have much of a shot at anything.

I will say the "private stores" in Cuba were decent, you could tell immediately if you entered a government tourist shop, it was obvious.  If we opened up to Cuba, IMHO, and turned Hilton and Marriot loose down there, they'd be quasi-capitalist in about 20 years.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 25, 2024, 09:06:49 AM
1812 Napoleon Bonaparte's Grand Armée numbering half a million begin their invasion of Russia by crossing the Nieman River
This is also the day the Nazi regime invaded "Russia", with somewhat similar results.

There is a theory that Mussolini's invasion of Greece caused Hitler to set back the invasion by a critical 2-3 weeks.  That may not be true.
I used to think the delay due to Mussolini's catastrophe in Greece was critical but I've done more research and I no longer believe that the Greek issue was critical for two reasons:

First, even without the invasion of Greece, the Germans had to wait out the Spring Rainy season because there were very few paved roads in the USSR so they needed at least relatively dry land for tanks and other large vehicles to traverse.  Therefore, they couldn't have invaded much sooner than they did anyway.  

Second, it is easy to look at the maps, see that the Germans got to the outskirts of Moscow right before the Eastern Soviet Troops showed up and pushed them back and think: "Hey, if they had an extra two weeks, they could have taken Moscow." but I think that is a massive oversimplification.  They got to Leningrad with plenty of time to spare and surrounded it for literally years without taking it.  Also look at Stalingrad, taking a large urban area from a determined foe is no easy lift.  Beyond that, the major German problem outside of Moscow wasn't the weather nor even the extra Soviet Troops that showed up from the far east after Sorge (incredibly interesting guy) told the Soviets that the Japanese were heading South and East and NOT planning on attacking the Soviets.  Instead, the biggest problem for the Germans was logistics.  They had simply outrun their ability to keep their army supplied with food, fuel, ammunition, etc.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2024, 09:12:57 AM
I agree generally, though two weeks would have been helpful to the Nazis in terms of tank maintenance.  The Panzers used in the Greek invasion got worn down and needed maintenance.  But as you note, the weather earlier was pretty wet along much of the front.

And yes, taking a heavily damaged but defended major city would be a problem.  Had Guderian been able to surround Moscow, their materiel production would of course been largely reduced.  Stalin at that point may have sought negotiations.  It can be debated all day.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2024, 09:13:12 AM
An early model Porsche:

(https://i.imgur.com/BoXgRlT.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2024, 09:34:58 AM
I used to play a computer war game involving Barbarossa, a pretty good one for the time.  The key, I found, was taking Leningrad to link up with the Finns.  The Finnish troops could then be used to suppress partisans who otherwise were a pain, or soaked up useful German troops.  Then one can turn southeast before winter hits, and then times are tough for a few months.

When Spring comes, I usually go after the oil fields, if you mask Stalingrad, you generally can get into them with some difficulty, the Russians aren't ignoring this of course, and beginning to show signs of strength.  But if you manage to secure them and get to the Caucasian Sea, it's pretty much over except for tough fighting, the Russian has by then lost too much stuff, and the Americans are barely in the game in any sense.

I tried this again a few years back, even set on slowest setting, it "runs too fast" on any modern PS.

There is another with the Pacific, also a Gary Grigsby development, that is quite good at leaning distances, locations, logistics, etc.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 25, 2024, 09:52:44 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Korean War Begins (1950)
After WWII, Korea was divided at the 38th parallel, with Soviet forces occupying the north and US forces occupying the south. Negotiations to reunify the two zones failed, and in 1950 the North invaded the South. US President Harry Truman ordered troops to assist South Korea, and the UN backed the mission. As UN troops advanced across North Korea, the People's Republic of China intervened, pushing them back to the original boundary at the 38th parallel.
Another war we should not have entered.

China benefitted the most from that conflict.
I view this one a bit differently.  We had created the mess, we needed to clean it up.  Brief history:

At the end of WWII the US and USSR divided Korea into occupation zones much like Germany.  Initially the idea was that a government would be formed to govern the whole but that fell through due to the escalating cold war.  Stalin installed a communist regime in the North and we installed a theoretically democratic (but mostly just Western-friendly) regime in the South and negotiations on unification proved pointless since both sides wanted to effectively annex the other half.  

Both the North and the South Korean regimes wanted to forcibly annex the other half but neither the US nor the USSR wanted to fight WWIII over the issue so the US and USSR both intentionally sold/gave mostly defensive armaments to their respective clients and refused to provide them with offensive weaponry so as to keep their clients from launching an invasion that would inevitably drag them in.  

Then the US, or more specifically Dean Acheson, made an unintentional and seemingly minute error that turned out to be a grave strategic misstep.  Acheson gave a speech to the Press Club in which he outlined a US "defensive perimeter" vis-a-vis communist aggression.  He omitted South Korea from his defensive perimeter.  

South Korea lacked tanks and heavy artillery because we deprived them of those in an effort to prevent South Korea from starting a war that we would get dragged into and then we omitted them from our listed "defensive perimeter" so it was basically our fault that they got invaded in the first place.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 25, 2024, 10:00:59 AM
I'm not sure why Acheson is so well-regarded in history by many.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 25, 2024, 10:06:30 AM
I used to play a computer war game involving Barbarossa, a pretty good one for the time.  The key, I found, was taking Leningrad to link up with the Finns.  The Finnish troops could then be used to suppress partisans who otherwise were a pain, or soaked up useful German troops.  Then one can turn southeast before winter hits, and then times are tough for a few months.

When Spring comes, I usually go after the oil fields, if you mask Stalingrad, you generally can get into them with some difficulty, the Russians aren't ignoring this of course, and beginning to show signs of strength.  But if you manage to secure them and get to the Caucasian Sea, it's pretty much over except for tough fighting, the Russian has by then lost too much stuff, and the Americans are barely in the game in any sense.

I tried this again a few years back, even set on slowest setting, it "runs too fast" on any modern PS.

There is another with the Pacific, also a Gary Grigsby development, that is quite good at leaning distances, locations, logistics, etc.
An interesting historic irony:
Paulus ran a pre-war simulation and told the high command that German logistical issues would prevent total victory in the USSR at basically the point where it actually happened in the actual event.  It is ironic because, of course, Paulus ended up being the senior commander of the surrounded German troops at Stalingrad.  What happened to Paulus at Stalingrad was almost exactly what he told the Nazi leadership would happen.  

WRT to Finns, they wanted to retake the territory lost during the Winter War but they were uninterested in fighting a general war against the USSR.  They fought on the side of the Germans but they weren't really "allies" as they had wildly differing goals.  In the actual event they almost certainly could have taken Leningrad IF they had chosen to, they simply chose not to.  Thus, I don't think the "linking up with the Finns" idea would have had much impact in the actual event because I don't think the Finns would have reacted the way that game predicts.  Instead, I think the Finns would have basically said "that is nice, we got what we wanted, good luck to you."  

IMHO, the one and only possibility for something resembling a German victory in the USSR would have been your second paragraph.  If they could have taken the oilfields or at least deprived the USSR of the oil, that would have changed things.  The USA could have met Soviet oil needs but there are multiple problems with that including:

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 25, 2024, 10:31:05 AM
In the computer game,  the Finns are quite limited as to how far from Finland they can get, but they can be used to garrison Leningrad and suppress partisans in the general area north of Leningrad, near Murmansk.  And taking Murmansk of course has other impacts on the Russians, if the German player can do it.

As with many such games, Grigsby's versions are hard initially and in the middle, and then later one finds one has overwhelming superiority, which might not be historically accurate.  I find the main interest is in understand geographic positions better, especiall in Pacific War.  I now have a pretty good notion about Pacific geography.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 26, 2024, 08:03:33 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Conquistador Francisco Pizarro Killed (1541)
After multiple expeditions in the New World, Pizarro set sail for Peru in 1531 with 180 men. His men soon slaughtered the unarmed emissaries of the Inca emperor, Atahuallpa, and took him hostage. After accepting a rich ransom for Atahuallpa's release, Pizarro had him garroted and spent the rest of his life consolidating Spain's hold on the Inca empire in Peru. In 1535, he founded Lima, where he was killed by fellow Spaniards he had betrayed.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 26, 2024, 10:46:59 AM
Imagine a man who walked away from the peak of his career not for lack of skill, but to change the game forever. Bobby Jones, a Georgia lawyer hailing from a prominent family, spent most of his career as an amateur golfer. It wasn’t until the twilight of his competitive days that he turned professional, not for glory, but to create instructional films endorsed by the PGA.
Starting in 1923, Jones embarked on a legendary run, capturing 13 major championships in just eight years. During the 1920s, the majors comprised the US Open, the US Amateur Championship, The Open Championship, and the British Amateur. His crowning achievement came in 1930 when he won all four major championships in a single calendar year, a Grand Slam— a feat matched only by Tiger Woods seven decades later.
After retiring from competitive golf, Jones didn't fade into the background. Instead, he shifted his focus to establishing one of golf's most prestigious events, The Masters. Held at the Augusta National Golf Club, which Jones co-designed, the tournament soon became one of the sport's most revered majors. The tradition of the Green Jacket, awarded to the winner, is a testament to Jones’ vision and his enduring impact on the game.
Bobby Jones didn’t just play golf; he sculpted its history, leaving a legacy that continues to inspire and define the sport.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 26, 2024, 12:02:46 PM
I met his son. 

We were working on a new golf course in Orland Park, Illinois and he designed it. We were also doing the surrounding subdivision. Big project.

We laid out the first tee in his presence, and he took a swing. We measured the distance.

He then shook my hand as I was holding my surveying rod. Pretty cool.

Home - Crystal Tree Golf and Country Club 2016 (crystaltreecc.org) (https://www.crystaltreecc.org/)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 26, 2024, 12:09:46 PM
probably this guy........ not that guy

Robert Trent "Bobby" Jones Jr. (born July 24, 1939) is an American golf course architect. He is the son of golf course designer Robert Trent Jones and the brother of golf course designer Rees Jones.

(https://i.imgur.com/huyD3U7.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 26, 2024, 12:25:41 PM
I met his son.
I met his son.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 26, 2024, 12:29:12 PM
not the golfer

you met the golf course architect's son

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 26, 2024, 12:34:45 PM
That's what I said. I met Junior, who was the golf course architect. He also took the first swing.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 26, 2024, 12:48:00 PM
It's weird, but more than a few Bobby Jones out there.........

Robert Tyre Jones Jr. (March 17, 1902 – December 18, 1971) was an American amateur golfer who was one of the most influential figures in the history of the

Robert Trent "Bobby" Jones Jr. (born July 24, 1939) is an American golf course architect. He is the son of golf course designer Robert Trent Jones and the brother of golf course designer Rees Jones.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 26, 2024, 12:56:30 PM
It's weird, but more than a few Bobby Jones out there.........

Robert Tyre Jones Jr. (March 17, 1902 – December 18, 1971) was an American amateur golfer who was one of the most influential figures in the history of the

Robert Trent "Bobby" Jones Jr. (born July 24, 1939) is an American golf course architect. He is the son of golf course designer Robert Trent Jones and the brother of golf course designer Rees Jones.
That's who I met.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 26, 2024, 02:36:02 PM

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 27, 2024, 08:17:32 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Air France Flight 139 Hijacked (1976)
In 1976, a plane en route from Israel to France was hijacked by members of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) and flown to Entebbe, Uganda. The hijackers released 258 non-Israeli passengers and held the rest, demanding that Israel release 53 imprisoned PLO members. In response, Israel transported more than 100 commandos to Uganda. In what is now known as the Entebbe raid, seven hijackers, one soldier, and three hostages were killed
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 27, 2024, 08:39:24 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/GPKEUIM.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 27, 2024, 08:43:00 AM
sporty car thread?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 27, 2024, 08:45:06 AM
It's clearly history.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 27, 2024, 08:52:05 AM
looks like a current photo

I nearly always spam two or three threads with something that awesome.
the Big 12 guys seem to appreciate that.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 27, 2024, 01:41:22 PM
June 25, 1903, George Orwell (Eric Blair), British, was born. He is the author of Animal Farm and 1984 (write in 1948), was born. I like these books because they are  historical, philosophical, intriguing, anticipatory, dystopian...

Although Orwell did not visit America, his books had and still have a great impact in the USA. The significance of Orwellian stories in the USA is analyzed, for example, in this book: Orwell's Oceania and the U. S. A. by Oliver Trenk (google books).

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 27, 2024, 04:59:09 PM
“My mother said I weighed 18 or 20lbs from the start, the biggest baby she ever saw. I was deformed as a boy. I had a big stomach and a big rear and little shoulders.”
- Primo Carnera
Primo Carnera, nicknamed the Ambling Alp, was an Italian professional boxer and wrestler who reigned as the boxing World Heavyweight Champion from 29 June 1933 to 14 June 1934. He won more fights by knockout than any other heavyweight champion in boxing history.
Carnera was the third European to hold the world heavyweight championship after Bob Fitzsimmons and Max Schmeling. He would be the last until Ingemar Johansson claimed the title against Floyd Patterson in 1959, over a quarter of a century later.
Carnera was also the first boxer to win the European Heavyweight title and subsequently become World Heavyweight champion.


(https://i.imgur.com/T24rLfd.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on June 28, 2024, 04:57:14 PM
Own a piece of history for $4M.
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/einsteins-warning-letter-to-us-franklin-roosevelt-set-to-fetch-4-million-5989489/amp/1
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 29, 2024, 07:28:07 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Two Car Bombs Discovered in London (2007)
In 2007, a potential tragedy was averted in London when two car bombs were disabled before they could be detonated in a busy district of the city. The cars and devices were recovered intact for forensic examination and both were found to contain gasoline canisters, nails, and a mobile phone-based trigger. The next day, two men drove a car laden with propane into a terminal at Glasgow International Airport and set it ablaze. The surviving conspirator was jailed for both incidents.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on June 29, 2024, 08:16:49 AM
Own a piece of history for $4M.
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/einsteins-warning-letter-to-us-franklin-roosevelt-set-to-fetch-4-million-5989489/amp/1
Bing Videos (https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?q=rush+manhattan+project&mid=4AE7588022918FB0F8784AE7588022918FB0F878&FORM=VIRE)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 29, 2024, 08:42:11 AM
1971 Green Beret Captain Richard Flaherty stands next to 6'6" Pfc. Nipps.
Richard J. Flaherty due to complications at his birth only grew to 4-Foot-9-inches tall 97-Pounds. Coming from a family of military heroes Richard also wanted to do his part and serve his country.
People laughed at the idea of a man his size in the military and all the branches turned him down. But that didn't deter Richard, he spent the next 3 years writing letters until he finally received a medical waiver. With the waiver the Army allowed him to join... but no one ever believed he would make it through basic training.
His uniforms didn't fit, the equipment was too big, and he was required to carry a back pack during long marches that was almost the same weight as he was. Because of his leg length marching in step with the rest of his company was incredibly difficult but Richard kept up. All the obstacle courses were built for average size men but Richard conquered them all. No rules were ever changed for Richard... Either he would sink or swim.
Richard didn't just make it through basic training he volunteered and become an elite paratrooper, with the 101st Airborne. When he would jump out of planes the instructors would have to strap machine gun parts to his body to help his descent so he wouldn't "float away."
He graduated Officer Candidate School in 1968 as a 2nd Lieutenant and deployed to Vietnam. Within weeks he would lead his platoon in some of the bloodiest battles during the, "Tet Offensive." In that week he was wounded twice by grenade fragmentation and a grazing bullet wound to the head but as soon as he was patched up he jumped right back into the battle.
After several months of fighting on the front lines many officers would accept assignments in the rear away from the action but not Richard. He would request to be transferred to Echo Company to lead a RECON unit which engaged in dangerous search and destroy missions deep into enemy territory. By the time his first tour in Vietnam was finished, Richard would receive the Silver Star, 2 Bronze Stars with Valor, & 2 Purple Hearts.
If you think that's where Richard's story ends think again. Richard would become an elite Green Beret with the 3rd Special Forces Group and be promoted to Captain. He served with the 46th Company based in Thailand where some of their clandestine missions sent them into Pink Zones "across the fence" fighting Malaysian and Burmese guerrillas.
As incredible as all his accomplishments seem that's just the first half of his life story as his next chapters of undercover operations around the world seem closer to something out of a Tom Clancy book.
Richard had one last surprise when it came to his final wishes. Even though he knew he was qualified for the highest military burial in Arlington National Cemetery he instead chose to be buried in a small anonymous cemetery in W. Virginia so he could be next to the women he loved for eternity.
To learn more about the unbelievable life of America's smallest war hero please check out, "The Giant Killer" Book, Audiobook and Documentary available worldwide.
Flaherty Military Bio:
Special Forces Capt. Richard J. Flaherty AKA The Giant Killer - In December of 1967, was sent to Vietnam with the 101st Airborne Division. He served as a Platoon Leader with companies B, C, and D and as a Recon Platoon Leader with Echo company.
In January of 1969, he returned to CONUS and attended the Special Forces School at Fort Bragg and was then assigned to the 3rd Special Forces Group. Later that year he returned to South East Asia with the 46th Special Forces Company A-110 in Camp Pawai, Lopburi Thailand.
Captain Flaherty earned The Silver Star, 2 Bronze Stars, 2 Purple Hearts, the Air Medal, Gallantry Cross W/Silver Star, Army Commendation Medal, Combat Infantryman’s Badge, 3 Overseas Bars, Sharpshooter Badge W/Rifle Bar, Air Medal, Parachutist Badge, Vietnam Service badge.


(https://i.imgur.com/gsUMNzT.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on June 29, 2024, 12:59:42 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/this-day-in-braves-history-warren-spahn-outduels-don-drysdale/ar-BB1p3IU2?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=LCTS&cvid=09418
This Day in Braves History: Warren Spahn outduels Don Drysdale

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on June 30, 2024, 07:48:40 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Charles Julius Guiteau, Assassin of US President James A. Garfield, Hanged (1882)
At the deadlocked 1880 Republican national convention, Garfield was nominated as a compromise candidate for president, with Chester A. Arthur chosen for vice president to appease the "Stalwart" faction of the party. However, after Garfield became president, he passed over the Stalwarts in his appointments, creating a bitter rivalry. Guiteau, who unreasonably expected to be offered a diplomatic post, shot Garfield and said, "I am a Stalwart and Arthur is president now!"
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2024, 09:50:49 AM
A “Correct” Magneto Check?
“Mechanically, it doesn’t matter which magneto you check first. As long as you check both you’ve accomplished the task.

However, there’s a reason many manuals—and the Pilot Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge—recommend checking the right magneto first, and then the left. Doing it in this order helps ensure both magnetos have been selected prior to takeoff.
When checking your mags, go two clicks to the left (which selects the right magneto), then back to both mags, then one click to the left (selecting the left magneto), and again back to both. This does not guarantee that you’ll be on both magnetos when you take off, but it guards against the error of thinking you switched to back to “Both” for takeoff when you actually switched one click from “Right” to “Left.”
When we check the mags, we’re checking three things. One is that the magneto grounding wires are still connected. If not connected, then there will be no drop in RPM when you select that magneto. Second is that the drop in RPM falls within the recommended limits as defined in the POH. This says the remaining mag can provide sufficient spark to keep our engine running, even if with less than full power. The third is that the differential drop between magnetos is within limits, which might clue us in to a mistimed or other mag issue we should check out before the flight.
With only one mag, we have less power for takeoff. On more than one occasion, I’ve had an applicant take off with only the left magneto selected. For one applicant in a Cessna 150, the combination of a hot, humid day and only the left magneto selected resulted in an anemic climb rate of less than 75 FPM.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on June 30, 2024, 09:55:15 AM
Gatlinburg, TN, 1938:

(https://i.imgur.com/9w0IAFx.png)

Then 1949:

(https://i.imgur.com/tbm9Bhl.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 01, 2024, 07:54:04 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Russian State Library Founded (1862)
The Russian State Library in Moscow is the largest library in Europe and the second largest in the world, behind the Library of Congress. Its collection of more than 43 million items in 248 languages includes more than 17 million books, brochures, and serials; 13 million journals; and 650,000 newspapers. Its specialized collections feature maps, art publications, printed music, and manuscripts.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 01, 2024, 11:10:21 AM
Gatlinburg, TN, 1938:

(https://i.imgur.com/9w0IAFx.png)
Well, it was Gatlinburg in mid-July
And I just hit town and my throat was dry
I thought I'd stop and have myself a brew
At an old saloon on a street of mud
There at a table, dealing stud
Sat the dirty, mangy dog that named me "Sue"
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 01, 2024, 11:40:41 AM
December 29, 1790 marks the death of the famous mathematician Thomas Fuller, known as the "Mental Calculator".
Died on December 29, 1790, the late Thomas Fuller was an African slave known for his skills in mathematics. He was captured in Africa by white slaves and shipped to the USA in 1724 when he was only 14.
He was so good at math, he could do unimaginable calculations. One day when they asked him how many seconds there were in a year and a half, he answered in approximately two minutes, 47304000. Pro-abolitionists and white philanthropists used his talent as proof that Black slaves were equal to Whites in intelligence.
Thomas Fuller, was a very great Mathematician, but unfortunately forgotten about history.
This December 29 marks the 233rd anniversary of his death.


(https://i.imgur.com/DHDc8Dw.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 01, 2024, 12:22:58 PM
Today is the anniversary of the birth, in Badonviller on 26 Jun 1730, of the French astronomer Charles Messier. He is best remembered for his "Catalogue des Nébuleuses et des Amas d'Étoiles" ("Catalogue of Nebulae and Star Clusters") showing the locations of many deep sky objects including nebulae, star clusters and galaxies. This came about through his observation and discovery of comets, his interest in which stemmed from the predicted return of Halley’s Comet in 1758/1759. Messier in fact sighted its return on 21 Jan 1759, although this was around a month after the German farmer and amateur astronomer Johann Georg Palitzsch became the first to view the returning comet on 25 Dec 1758. The 9 km x 11 km diameter oval lunar crater Messier (seen on the left in this image) and the nearby 11 km x 13 km Messier A, both located in the central regions of Mare Fecunditatis, are named in his honour.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 01, 2024, 12:24:16 PM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 
Ignaz Philipp Semmelweiss (1818)
Semmelweiss was a Hungarian physician who pioneered the use of antiseptics in obstetrical clinics. While working at a Vienna hospital, he became convinced that physicians were transmitting puerperal fever, also called childbed fever, to patients and began insisting that doctors thoroughly cleanse their hands. Though this greatly reduced the mortality rate from infection in childbirth, he was widely ridiculed by his colleagues and left Vienna.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 02, 2024, 09:21:09 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

US President Lyndon B. Johnson Signs the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (1964)
Proposed by President John F. Kennedy and strengthened and passed under President Johnson, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 is widely considered the most important US law on civil rights since Reconstruction. A comprehensive law intended to end discrimination based on race, color, sex, religion, or national origin, it guarantees equal voting rights and prohibits segregation or discrimination in public places, among other provisions.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 02, 2024, 02:22:02 PM
Definitely weird history

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-PSZYMHkduI?feature=share
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 02, 2024, 03:37:45 PM
Well, it was Gatlinburg in mid-July
And I just hit town and my throat was dry
I thought I'd stop and have myself a brew
At an old saloon on a street of mud
There at a table, dealing stud
Sat the dirty, mangy dog that named me "Sue"
Love that song.

If you like Cash, check out Terry Lee Goffee. https://www.facebook.com/share/gfWWY4xADiksWwvZ/?mibextid=qi2Omg

He is somewhat local to us. I've seen him in Medina, Barberton, Wooster, and elsewhere. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 03, 2024, 07:51:24 AM
Rani Lakshmi Bai

In 1857, Indian troops in the service of the English East India Company ignited a massive rebellion. They refused to use rifle cartridges thought to be lubricated with grease containing a mixture of pigs' and cows' lard, considered religiously impure. Lakshmi Bai—queen of the Indian state of Jhansi—became an unlikely hero in the rebellion. When a British commander vowed to destroy Jhansi unless its people surrendered, Lakshmi Bai asserted that they would fight to the death.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 04, 2024, 12:37:15 PM
On This Day with the STA - Oil Discovered
July 3, 1818 – While drilling on the banks of the South Fork of the Cumberland River, workers for the Martin Beatty Salt Works accidentally discovered oil. Andrew Zimmerman and Marcus Huling used a pedal-powered drill to bore into the solid sandstone along the Big South Fork, looking for the most valuable resource of the day- salt brine. They were disappointed when a thick, black goo poured out of the hole. The smelly, sticky substance resembled pitch and was useless to the salt miners. They abandoned the hole and drilled elsewhere in search of the "liquid gold" used to make salt.

According to one account, the men learned that the black substance was flammable. They reportedly named the black substance "Devil's Tar" and told neighbors that they had "drilled into Hell itself." The black goo was used for lighting and for medical purposes for several years. Hundreds of gallons of Beatty Oil found its way to Europe and was used in various medicines there.

The little-known site along the Sheltowee Trace has a legitimate claim as the first commercial well to produce oil in the United States. Still, most historians recognize the Drake Well in Pennsylvania as the first commercial oil well. The Beatty Well site was located near the mouth of a small creek between Cub Branch and Bear Creek. A small sign along the Sheltowee marks the location of the well near the creek that now bears the name Oil Well Branch.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 04, 2024, 09:01:10 PM
"Both John Adams and Thomas Jefferson, signers of the Declaration of Independence and former presidents, died on July 4, 1826."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 05, 2024, 08:13:19 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Dolly, the First Cloned Sheep, Is Born (1996)
Perhaps the most famous sheep in history, Dolly was the first mammal to be cloned from an adult cell through the somatic cell nuclear transfer technique, in which the nucleus of an egg cell is replaced by the nucleus of a cell from the organism to be cloned. In successful cases, the egg cell develops into a healthy fetus, but the success rate of cloning has been low. Of 277 eggs, only 29 created viable embryos, and Dolly was the only one to survive to adulthood.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 05, 2024, 08:40:05 AM
I remember when that was "news" and a harbinger of ... something.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 05, 2024, 10:08:14 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/GWJO7jJ.png)

This is the ATL "downtown connector" from ca. 1955.  I had not seen this photo before.  Around that curve to the left it ended, and only was completed around downtown in 1965.  The 'acceleration lanes' didn't exist, as you can see on the right and center.  I can't even make out lane markings, maybe they didn't have them.  

This is looking south at downtown from near Georgia Tech (right).  The metro area at that time probably had half a million people in it.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 05, 2024, 10:38:32 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/1sF4dGm.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 05, 2024, 11:44:46 AM
Shelby County, Tennessee, 1924...

African American Confederate veteran Rueben Patterson is photographed with Mary Gardner Patterson, the granddaughter of Josiah Patterson. Reuben accompanied his master's son, Col. Josiah Patterson, 5th Ala. Cav. Regt., CSA, throughout the Civil War. Rueben Patterson traveled from Florence, Alabama, to attend a Confederate veterans' reunion. He proudly wore his Confederate uniform for the picture...

(https://i.imgur.com/B12EViy.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 06, 2024, 07:41:00 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Explosion and Fire Destroy Piper Alpha Drilling Platform (1988)
Piper Alpha was a North Sea oil production platform operated by Occidental Petroleum that sank into the sea after a series of explosions and a massive fire, killing 167 men. Only 59 of the workers survived. The initial blast is believed to have resulted from the activation of a pump that was missing a safety valve. A poorly planned evacuation process exacerbated the disaster.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 06, 2024, 11:32:56 AM
This Day in Braves History: 1986 - Bob Horner becomes the 11th player to hit four home runs in a game, but it isn't enough as the Braves fall to the Expos 11-8.

 (https://i.imgur.com/BQWypc8.jpeg)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 06, 2024, 11:35:10 AM
 a bit like Ron Cey, "the penguin"
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 07, 2024, 09:38:03 AM
n 1942 General Douglas MacArthur ordered this Packard Clipper Eight sedan with virtually every option including air conditioning, overdrive, and radio.

The $1,341 base price nearly doubled to $2,600. The factory returned his check and delivered the car to his station in Australia as a gift.

The car was MacArthur's until 1948, when he gave it to his driver who had served the general.

The car sat forgotten in a barn in Texas for 30 years. MacArthur made arrangements through a Navy friend to ship the car on the aircraft carrier Princeton to San Diego.

Then on a military flatbed it shipped to Fort Sam Houston, Texas. It was released to the driver in his home city of Dallas. He made arrangements to have military hardware removed and painted a bright post war color. However, he had to wait as they were busy.

Before he could get it done he parked the car in his small, dirt floor garage. He died in his sleep and it remained there untouched for years. The car still had MacArthur's old army helmet and corncob pip


(https://i.imgur.com/e5f1nwU.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2024, 11:37:28 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/tCQjawp.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2024, 06:13:59 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/SCCbu62.png)

The Great Paris Exhibition Telescope of 1900. The largest refracting telescope ever constructed. Built for the Paris Universal Exhibition of 1900. It was not suited for scientific use. After the exhibition it was broken up and sold for scrap. Champ-de-Mars, Paris, France. 1900.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2024, 03:45:15 PM


(https://i.imgur.com/4h51u3G.png)

On July 7, 1930, construction began on the HooverDam.

Built during the Depression, thousands of men and their families came to Black Canyon to build the dam. It took less than five years, in harsh conditions, to build the largest dam of its time. Now, years later, Hoover Dam still stands as a world-renowned structure. The dam is a National Historic Landmark and has been rated by the American Society of Civil Engineers as one of America's Seven Modern Civil Engineering Wonders.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 08, 2024, 04:55:14 PM
https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/bridge-nowhere-san-gabriel-mountains
https://modernhiker.com/hike/hiking-the-east-fork-of-san-gabriel-river-to-the-bridge-to-nowhere/

(https://i.imgur.com/X8tJvwM.jpeg)


Quote
THE BRIDGE TO NOWHERE IS a truss arch bridge that was built in 1936 just north of Azusa, California in the San Gabriel Mountains. The bridge spans the East Fork of the San Gabriel River and was intended to connect the San Gabriel Valley with Wrightwood, California. During its initial construction, Los Angeles County claimed that the bridge and connected highway would be one of the most scenic roads in America.

Unfortunately, these thoughts quickly changed when the East Fork Road, which provided access to the bridge, was washed out during a massive flood in 1938, just two years after the bridge’s completion. The entire project was then abandoned and the bridge was left forever stranded in the middle of the Sheep Mountain wilderness, without having a single car ever cross it.

The Bridge to Nowhere remains one of the most bizarre artifacts of the San Gabriel Mountains. What began as a significant state transportation initiative slowly became a desolate destination for hikers and bungee jumpers. The connected road and nearby bridges may have been crushed and ruined by countless floods, but the Bridge to Nowhere remains true, unused and alone in the wilderness.

I did the hike with a buddy in 2016. Nice hike w/o being overly challenging. The multiple stream crossings were annoying though. The first one we decided to take our shoes off and then put them on on the other side. After that we said screw it and just hiked with wet shoes. It was hot and dry enough that while it wasn't "pleasant" to hike like that, it was less annoying. And it's only 10 miles total, so it wasn't THAT bad. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 08, 2024, 04:58:53 PM
https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/bridge-nowhere-san-gabriel-mountains
https://modernhiker.com/hike/hiking-the-east-fork-of-san-gabriel-river-to-the-bridge-to-nowhere/
(https://i.imgur.com/X8tJvwM.jpeg)
I did the hike with a buddy in 2016. Nice hike w/o being overly challenging. The multiple stream crossings were annoying though. The first one we decided to take our shoes off and then put them on on the other side. After that we said screw it and just hiked with wet shoes. It was hot and dry enough that while it wasn't "pleasant" to hike like that, it was less annoying. And it's only 10 miles total, so it wasn't THAT bad.
When I did AT section hikes (which I'll get back to someday) we carried water shoes for stream crossings because wet socks/boots can easily lead to blisters and the alternative of crossing in bare feet can lead to even bigger problems if there are unseen sharp edges underwater.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 08, 2024, 05:04:37 PM
When I did AT section hikes (which I'll get back to someday) we carried water shoes for stream crossings because wet socks/boots can easily lead to blisters and the alternative of crossing in bare feet can lead to even bigger problems if there are unseen sharp edges underwater. 
Yeah, it's possible I didn't do it barefoot. I don't remember exactly. At the time I owned Vibram Five Fingers shoes because I'm a SUPER COOL RAD DUDE!, and I very well might have put those on to cross. But I only did it once, because knowing I was going to have to do it multiple times there and multiple times back was just too much. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 09, 2024, 08:36:33 AM
I'd rather hike over the bridge
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2024, 01:54:57 PM
The 3x + 1 problem, is a math problem that has baffled mathematicians for over 50 years. It's easy to explain: take any positive number, if it's even, divide it by 2; if it's odd, multiply it by 3 and add 1. Repeat this process with the resulting number, and the conjecture says that you will eventually reach 1.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 09, 2024, 02:26:30 PM
Why would that baffle them? 

If it's even and you divide by 2, and it's even again, you divide by 2 again, and if it's even again, divide by 2 again, etc. This means that every even number that results in an even number after divided by 2 will be divided by at least 4, and possibly 8, and possibly higher powers of 2. 

If it's odd and you multiple by three and add 1, the result will ALWAYS be even. So while it may intuitively seem like you're always making numbers larger when they're odd, it's much less than thought. Because the immediate result will be the equivalent of multiplying by ~1.5, not 3, because the next number will ALWAYS be divided by 2. 

So it's simple. Starting with:



This seems simple as hell. I didn't spend more than a few minutes thinking about it and I can see how the division of evens will always outcompete the multiplication of odds. 

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2024, 02:47:37 PM
The conjecture is that you reach 1, yes indeed, it's not to prove that, but to prove that for all possible integers.

The 3x + 1 Conjecture, a Direct Path (scirp.org) (https://www.scirp.org/journal/paperinformation?paperid=125818#:~:text=The 3x %2B 1 problem%2C is,you will eventually reach 1.)

 Despite testing all starting values up to an enormous number, no one has proved the conjecture is true for all possible starting values. The problem’s importance lies in its simplicity and difficulty, inspiring new ideas in mathematics and advancing fields like number theory, dynamical systems, and computer science. Proving or disproving the conjecture would revolutionize our understanding of math. The presence of infinite sequences is a matter of question. To investigate and solve this conjecture, we are utilizing a novel approach involving the fields of number theory and computer science.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 09, 2024, 03:11:32 PM
Ahh, got it. So they all understand it, but nobody has been able to concoct a formal mathematical proof.

That makes more sense than mathematicians being "baffled" by this :57:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 10, 2024, 07:39:48 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company (EADS) Formed (2000)
EADS is one of the world's largest aerospace companies. It was formed in 2000 from the merger of Aerospatiale Matra of France, DaimlerChrysler Aerospace of Germany, and Construcciones Aeronáuticas S.A. of Spain. Responsible for the final assembly of Airbus aircraft, it is one of the top makers of commercial and military aircraft. It is also one of the major arms manufacturers in Europe, and its divisions also produce communications systems, space rockets, and satellites.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 11, 2024, 09:27:18 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Los Alfaques Disaster (1978)
The Los Alfaques disaster was an explosion that took place near a campsite in Tarragona, Spain, when a leaking tanker truck loaded with 23 tons of highly flammable liquid propylene ignited. This resulted in a massive explosion and fireball that reached over 1000° F (538° C) and destroyed everything within a 1000-ft (300-m) radius. It killed 217 people, including the truck's driver, and severely burned more than 200.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 11, 2024, 09:30:47 AM
The los alfaques disaster: A boiling-liquid, expanding-vapour explosion - ScienceDirect (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0305417981901042)

That was akin to a "Fuel Air Explosive" bomb detonation.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 11, 2024, 09:34:14 AM
The seatbelt was initially invented in the late 1800s by English engineer George Cayley. The invention was sparked from the idea to keep pilots inside their gliders. However, the first seatbelt that was created to be used in actual cars was made in 1885 by Edward J. Claghorn, in order to keep tourists safe in taxis during frequent drives in New York City.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 11, 2024, 09:35:28 AM
I dislike wearing a seatbelt
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 11, 2024, 12:30:05 PM
This Day In History July 7 1928 Sliced bread sold for the first time by the Chillicothe Baking Company, Missouri, using a machine invented by Otto Frederick Rohwedder. Described as the greatest forward step in the baking industry since bread was wrapped.
By 1928, Rohwedder perfected a bread-slicing machine with Bench as the only investor and he marketed the sliced bread to the public. The patented machine not only sliced bread with multiple blades but also wrapped the bread efficiently. Bench's Bakery sold their Kleen Maid sliced bread beginning on July 7, 1928.
By 1933, around 80% of bread sold in the US was pre-sliced, leading to the popular idiom "greatest thing since sliced bread".

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 11, 2024, 12:43:47 PM
I dislike wearing a seatbelt
Prolly didn't mind getting tied up though
Not that there's anything wrong with that
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 11, 2024, 02:28:56 PM
This Day In History July 7 1928 Sliced bread sold for the first time by the Chillicothe Baking Company, Missouri, using a machine invented by Otto Frederick Rohwedder. Described as the greatest forward step in the baking industry since bread was wrapped.
By 1928, Rohwedder perfected a bread-slicing machine with Bench as the only investor and he marketed the sliced bread to the public. The patented machine not only sliced bread with multiple blades but also wrapped the bread efficiently. Bench's Bakery sold their Kleen Maid sliced bread beginning on July 7, 1928.
By 1933, around 80% of bread sold in the US was pre-sliced, leading to the popular idiom "greatest thing since sliced bread".
What was the greatest thing before sliced bread?  

Just how much fun is a barrel of monkeys?  

Why do we drive on a parkway and park on a driveway?  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 11, 2024, 08:09:13 PM
Or I'm so happy i could just shit
A bandage is wound around a wound
The vegetable farm is used to produce the produce
There is no egg in eggplant, nor ham in hamburger; neither apple nor pine in pineapple.
English muffins weren’t invented in England or French fries in France.
A guinea pig is neither from Guinea nor is it a pig.
If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat?
How can a slim chance and a fat chance be the same, while a wise man and a wise guy are opposites?
One goose, 2 geese. So, one moose, 2 meese?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2024, 08:07:42 AM


The Battle of Alcatraz
A failed escape from Alcatraz Island Federal Penitentiary by six inmates in 1946 prompted a massive security response involving the San Francisco Police Department, US Coast Guard, FBI, Air Force, and Marines. Two guards and three prisoners were killed during the two-day confrontation that has come to be known as "The Battle of Alcatraz," and two more prisoners were later executed for their role in the incident.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2024, 08:08:40 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

French National Assembly Adopts Civil Constitution of the Clergy (1790)
The Civil Constitution of the Clergy was an act passed during the French Revolution that subordinated the Roman Catholic Church to the state. Under the act, citizens would elect clergymen and the state would pay their wages. When the National Assembly ordered the clergy to take an oath supporting the Civil Constitution, many refused. The resulting schism within the French church caused many Catholics to turn against the Revolution.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2024, 08:22:22 AM
Any churches built before 1909 I think are owned by the French government, including Notre Dame Cathedral, et al.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2024, 11:45:03 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/QcHEqyI.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 13, 2024, 05:13:51 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

New York Draft Riots (1863)
The New York Draft Riots, in which more than 100 civilians were killed, were the largest civil insurrection in US history after the Civil War. The rioters were mainly working-class men who were angry because, for a $300 fee, the wealthy could buy their way out of the Civil War draft. The rioters burned draft headquarters and other buildings. Mobs also attacked African Americans, whom they blamed for the war. The riots are portrayed in an alternate-history novel
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 14, 2024, 07:03:10 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
The Darién Scheme: Ships Leave Scotland for Isthmus of Panama (1698)
In 1695, the Scottish Parliament passed an act chartering a trading company to open trade with Africa and the Indies in the hope that this would make Scotland a world trading nation. Backed by about a quarter of the country's liquid assets, the Darién Company tried to establish a colony on the Isthmus of Panama to compete with the Dutch and Spanish, but both of its expeditions failed, nearly bankrupting Scotland in the process.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 14, 2024, 09:07:03 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/aJ9tv6b.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Riffraft on July 14, 2024, 02:24:53 PM
The conjecture is that you reach 1, yes indeed, it's not to prove that, but to prove that for all possible integers.

The 3x + 1 Conjecture, a Direct Path (scirp.org) (https://www.scirp.org/journal/paperinformation?paperid=125818#:~:text=The 3x %2B 1 problem%2C is,you will eventually reach 1.)

Despite testing all starting values up to an enormous number, no one has proved the conjecture is true for all possible starting values. The problem’s importance lies in its simplicity and difficulty, inspiring new ideas in mathematics and advancing fields like number theory, dynamical systems, and computer science. Proving or disproving the conjecture would revolutionize our understanding of math. The presence of infinite sequences is a matter of question. To investigate and solve this conjecture, we are utilizing a novel approach involving the fields of number theory and computer science.
Aaaah Number Theory.  When I took that as a freshman in college (already taken calculus, differential equations, etc as a high School student), I realized I had reached my limit in mathematics.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 16, 2024, 07:32:33 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Saddam Hussein Becomes President of Iraq (1979)
Hussein was president of Iraq from 1979 to 2003. He joined Iraq's Ba'th Party in 1957 and fled to Egypt after participating in a failed attempt to assassinate the Iraqi prime minister in 1959. He returned to Iraq when the Ba'thists gained power in 1963 but was jailed when they were overthrown. He escaped and helped reinstall the party in 1968. A decade later, he took over the presidency with the aim of replacing Egypt as leader of the Arab world.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 16, 2024, 08:00:30 AM
On this date July 15 (missed yesterday)
1994 - “Batgate” came to Comiskey Park. In the first inning, Cleveland slugger and future White Sox outfielder Albert Belle was caught using a corked bat by Chicago manager Gene Lamont and was ejected from the game by umpire Dave Phillips, who placed the bat in the umpires’ dressing room.

In order to keep Belle from being suspended further, teammate Jason Grimsley crawled 100 feet through the air ducts and dropped into the umpire’s room, where the bat was being held for examination. Grimsley replaced Belle’s bat with a Paul Sorrento model, which tipped off everyone to the switch.

Umpire Dave Phillips then realized the bats had been switched and the police investigated; the league demanded the return of Belle’s bat. Four days later the bat was sent to New York. It was X-rayed and cut open, revealing illegal cork, in the presence of Belle and Cleveland GM John Hart.

Belle was suspended for 10 games. The Sox lost the game, 3-2.

On this date July 16

1897 - Colts first baseman Cap Anson becomes the first major leaguer to collect 3000 hits when he singles off George Blackburn. The 45-year-old infielder’s historic hit comes in a 2-1 loss to Baltimore at Chicago’s West Side Grounds.

1902 - John McGraw was named manager of the New York Giants, a job he would hold for thirty years.


1990 - Steve Lyons slides headfirst into first base to beat out a bunt. The play becomes memorable when the White Sox first baseman drops his pants to brush away the dirt inside his uniform in front of 14,770 surprised fans at Tiger Stadium.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on July 16, 2024, 01:47:25 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

The Los Alfaques Disaster (1978)
The Los Alfaques disaster was an explosion that took place near a campsite in Tarragona, Spain, when a leaking tanker truck loaded with 23 tons of highly flammable liquid propylene ignited. This resulted in a massive explosion and fireball that reached over 1000° F (538° C) and destroyed everything within a 1000-ft (300-m) radius. It killed 217 people, including the truck's driver, and severely burned more than 200.
The truck was carrying liquid propylene.  I can't ever imagine needing a truck to carry propylene, we made 5 million pounds of the stuff in my old job everyday, all came in and out on pipelines.  Propane in, propylene out.  

According to the internets, truck had no PSV's and was overloaded, almost completely full of C3.  What a mess.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 16, 2024, 01:52:07 PM
I'd guess somebody ordered the "propene" (using the technical term) and wasn't near a pipeline, I don't know.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 16, 2024, 02:29:01 PM
On July 16, 1054, a delegation sent by Pope Leo in Rome marched into the Hagia Sophia cathedral in Constantinople and laid a papal bull (an official pronouncement) on the altar, excommunicating Patriarch Michael Cerularius and his followers. Four days later Cerularius excommunicated Leo’s followers.
The disputes leading up to the mutual excommunications had been festering for some time. Many, although seeming to be of immense importance at the time, seem trivial to us today. For example, they disagreed about exactly how to fast and about what type of bread should be used in communion. There were other disagreements. They disagreed about whether the liturgical language should be Greek or Latin. They disagreed over the use of icons. The principal theological dispute (believe it or not) was whether the Holy Spirit “proceeds from the Father,” or “proceeds from the Father and from the Son,” with each side declaring that the other’s position made them heretics. Underlying all this, of course, was the dispute was over which patriarch (the one in Rome or the one in Constantinople) had authority over the other.
The Great Schism occurred 970 years ago today.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 16, 2024, 03:00:03 PM
79 years ago today at 5:29 am the world's first nuclear explosion occurred. 

At the time President Truman was in Germany for the Potsdam Conference with Stalin and Churchill (who was replaced by Clement Attlee during the conference).

Stalin's spy network was so good that he learned about the successful test before Truman.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 17, 2024, 07:48:03 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Napalm Incendiary Bombs Dropped for First Time by US Air Force (1944)
Napalm is an organic compound used to thicken gasoline for use as an incendiary in flamethrowers and firebombs. The thickened mixture burns more slowly and can be propelled more accurately and farther than gasoline. When it comes in contact with surfaces, including the human body, it sticks and continues to burn. It was developed and first used by the US in World War II. Its use in the Vietnam War became highly controversial.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2024, 07:49:49 AM
The Schwerer Gustav in 1943, the largest calibre rifled weapon ever used in combat. The fully assembled gun weighed nearly 1,350 tons, and could fire shells weighing 7 tons to a range of 47 km. It was transported using railway.

(https://i.imgur.com/Okki6rh.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 17, 2024, 07:52:08 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/9XBbgga.png)

The original Varsity opened in 1928 by Frank Gordy at 55 North Avenue in Atlanta,
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 18, 2024, 03:43:41 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

La Cantuta Massacre (1992)
In 1992, a professor and nine students from Lima's La Cantuta University were abducted by a military death squad, murdered, and secretly buried. The murders occurred during the presidency of Alberto Fujimori and his government's battle against the guerilla terrorist group Shining Path. The massacre contributed to Fujimori's conviction in 2009 on charges of human rights abuses, for which he was sentenced to 25 years in prison.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 18, 2024, 05:39:54 PM
The price of gas in 1963.

(https://i.imgur.com/4txIKlh.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 18, 2024, 06:32:35 PM
I'm more interested in the $0.95 car wash.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 18, 2024, 09:12:26 PM
https://youtu.be/2PIg7fagvnw
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 19, 2024, 07:29:56 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

WWI: Battle of Fromelles Begins (1916)
The Battle of Fromelles was fought in France during World War I between Germany and a combined force of British and Australian troops. More than 1,500 British and 5,500 Australian soldiers were killed, wounded, or taken prisoner. The battle resulted in a decisive victory for Germany, which suffered 1,500 casualties. The Australian War Memorial describes the battle as "the worst 24 hours in Australia's entire history."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 20, 2024, 07:56:56 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

King Abdullah I of Jordan Is Assassinated (1951)
Abdullah I was the king of Jordan from 1946 until his death. With Britain's support, he led Arab revolts against Turkish rule in WWI and, after the Ottoman Empire's collapse, became emir of the British mandate of Transjordan in 1921. When the mandate ended, he became king of the renamed Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan. In 1948, he attacked the newly established state of Israel, annexing the portions of Palestine now known as the West Bank. In 1951, he was assassinated in Jerusalem
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2024, 09:45:13 AM
When the Boston Red Sox signed Babe Ruth in 1914, he was a tall, lean pitcher standing at 6’2". By 1915, Ruth had proven to be a formidable player with an impressive 18–8 win-loss record and a 2.44 ERA.
The following year, he bolstered the Red Sox's championship repeat with a league-leading nine shutouts and a 1.75 ERA. The 1918 season was shortened due to wartime restrictions, and the player roster was reduced. (Ruth, being married, was exempt from the draft.) In that season, he played both as an outfielder and pitcher, ending with a 13–7 record and tying for the league lead with eleven home runs.
Ruth's performance in the 1918 World Series was historic, setting a record with two shutouts and a scoreless innings streak that lasted until 1961. In 1919, his final season with the Red Sox, Ruth transitioned to a full-time outfielder.
By then, he had accumulated an 89–46 win-loss record and a 2.28 ERA, solidifying his potential as one of baseball’s finest pitchers.


(https://i.imgur.com/6DxNbT3.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 20, 2024, 10:18:37 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/pJIB8Cs.png)

A German Ferdinand, or Elefant, tank destroyer.  Porsche had made ~90 Porsche Tigers that were not accepted as tanks, so he took off the turret and replaced it with a "casemate" and 88 mm powerful antitank gun.  It was first used at Kursk with mixed success.  One deficiency was that it lacked a machine gun.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 20, 2024, 11:11:50 AM
Hitler really shyt the bed having too many tank model made that needed the kinks worked out. Watched more than a few WWII Armored segments on YT. The Wehrmacht should have stuck with the Panzer IVs and Stugs. Both reliable,efficient fairly easy to repair in the field and economical to make
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 21, 2024, 06:50:39 AM
Stalin's spy network was so good that he learned about the successful test before Truman.
They suspects were the Cambridge 5.The scandal of the Cambridge 5 is probably the most prominent and damaging intelligence disaster the United Kingdom has ever had. This group of 5 graduates of Cambridge University, recruited while students and traitors to their country, passed on vital information to the Soviet Union from the end of World War II and into the early stages of the Cold War.

 Guy Burgess,Donald Maclean(these two members were even honored and given a tribute from the foreign intelligence service of Russia).Kim Philby - the central member of the five, who himself fled Britain in 1963. Apart from these three, the other members of the spy group were called Anthony Blunt and John Cairncross.

 According to records, Burgess had leaked nearly 389 secret documents containing sensitive information to the KGB in early 1945, and more than 168 documents in the year 1949. Between 1934 to 1951, Maclean was known to have passed a large amount of secret information to Moscow.

However, despite warnings from the US about British secret information being leaked to the Soviets, this all went undetected owing to the fact that the British Secret Service was not ready to take the US warnings seriously.

https://www.historicmysteries.com/history/cambridge-5/21245/
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 21, 2024, 06:56:11 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/9XBbgga.png)

The original Varsity opened in 1928 by Frank Gordy at 55 North Avenue in Atlanta,
Yup climate change
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 21, 2024, 07:46:44 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Neil Armstrong Becomes the First Man to Walk on the Moon (1969)
As commander of Apollo 11, Armstrong was the first person to set foot on the Moon. With hundreds of millions watching a broadcast of his history-making moonwalk, he uttered the now famous line, "That's one small step for [a] man, one giant leap for mankind." Buzz Aldrin followed, and the two astronauts proceeded to set up scientific equipment, conduct experiments, and collect samples from the lunar surface.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 21, 2024, 08:11:44 AM
https://youtu.be/noWF8zh4d7A

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2024, 08:28:00 AM
Charles Goodyear left school at age 12 to work in his father’s hardware store in Connecticut. At age 23 he married Clarissa Beecher and soon afterwards the couple moved to Philadelphia, where Goodyear opened a hardware store of his own.
Goodyear was a competent merchant, but his passions were chemistry, materials science, and invention. In the late 1820s he became particularly fascinated with finding and improving practical applications for natural rubber (called India rubber). His experimentation would change the world, but Goodyear’s path to success would be challenging.
In 1830, at age 29, Goodyear was suffering from health issues and his rubber experiments (which he had funded by borrowing) had not been successful. By the end of the year his business was bankrupt and he was thrown into debtor’s prison. It was an inauspicious beginning to his career as a scientist and inventor.
The principal troubles with finding commercial applications for natural rubber was that the material was inelastic and was not durable, decomposing and becoming sticky depending on temperature. Goodyear was determined to find a chemical solution to overcome those issues, beginning his experiments while in jail. After numerous failures, his breakthrough came when he tried heating the rubber together with sulfur and other additives. In 1843 he wrote a friend, “I have invented a new process of hardening India rubber by means of sulphur and it is as much superior to the old method as the malleable iron is superior to cast iron. I have called it Vulcanization.”
Goodyear filed his patent application for vulcanized rubber on February 24, 1844 (one hundred eighty years ago today) and the patent was issued four months later. It is thanks to vulcanization that rubber can be used to make tires, shoe soles, hoses, and countless other items. It was one of the most profoundly important technological achievements of the 19th century.
So, Charles Goodyear became wealthy as a result? Unfortunately, no. He continued to struggle financially for the rest of his life, embroiled in litigation with other inventors over the validity of his patent, preventing him from profiting from it. Meanwhile, his wife Clarissa contracted tuberculosis and much of the family’s income was devoted to her medical expenses and extensive travel in search of a cure. Clarissa died in 1848 at age 39, leaving six children, between the ages of 4 and 17.
At age 54, while still struggling to defend his patents and commercialize his invention, Goodyear married 40-year-old Mary Starr (who had not previously been married) and the couple would go on to have two children together. It too was a happy marriage, but Goodyear was not destined to long enjoy it.
Suffering the adverse effects of years of exposure to dangerous chemicals, Goodyear collapsed at a hotel in New York City on July 1, 1860, dying later that day. At the time of his death, he was 59 years old, penniless, and deeply in debt.
The Goodyear Tire and Rubber Company, founded in Akron, Ohio by Frank Seiberling nearly 40 years later, was named in honor of Charles Goodyear. Neither Charles Goodyear nor anyone in his family was connected with the company.
Reflecting on Goodyear’s achievements, the historian Samuel Eliot Morrison wrote, “The story of Goodyear and his discovery of vulcanization is one of the most interesting and instructive in the history of science and industry.” But, as he added, “It is also an epic of human suffering and triumph, for Goodyear's life was one of almost continuous struggle against poverty and ill health.” Goodyear himself was philosophical about his failure to achieve financial success, writing that he was not disposed to complain that he had planted and others had gathered the fruit. “The advantages of a career in life should not be estimated exclusively by the standard of dollars and cents, as is too often done. Man has just cause for regret when he sows and no one reaps.”


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 21, 2024, 11:22:51 AM
Hitler really shyt the bed having too many tank model made that needed the kinks worked out. Watched more than a few WWII Armored segments on YT. The Wehrmacht should have stuck with the Panzer IVs and Stugs. Both reliable,efficient fairly easy to repair in the field and economical to make
They had an aircraft carrier nearly completed by end of the war, a complete waste of resources.  When Speer took over as head of armaments, he tried to get it all sorted out, but it was too late for them, and the ness was too extensive.  I think part of it was the "crony capitalism" with the heads of Krupp and Man and Porsche and Henkel et al. all trying to present something that would catch Hitler's eye, and stuff often did that made little sense.

I do think they should have developed the Panther tank, and sorted it out before using it in battle.  It was superior for the Mark IV.  And they did need an antitank or assault gun better than the StuG series later in the war.  The Pantherjaeger would have been adequate.  

Fortunately for us, Hitler started making very bad decisions after a run of good fortune for them.  One scenario is to support Afrika Corps and not attack Russia (or declare war on the US).  They could have taken the entire Med except Turkey and gotten oil resources in the ME.

I think most great military leaders begin to think they are infallible if they string some early victories together.  An odd thing about George Washington is how many battles he technically lost, but kept his army together under dire circumstances, so he never was tempted to think he was perfect.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 21, 2024, 02:37:38 PM
Both the stug and IVs were more than good enough and after breaking in relatively dependable. The bigger tanks just chewed too much fuel and the Tigers and Panthers would collapse many/most of the bridges they came across in wesern Europe country side.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 22, 2024, 08:00:50 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
The Battle of Falkirk (1298)
The Battle of Falkirk was a major battle in the First War of Scottish Independence. It was fought between the leader of the Scots, William Wallace, and King Edward I of England, also known as the Hammer of the Scots. In 1298, Edward I invaded Scotland and defeated a smaller force led by Wallace at Falkirk. Edward's longbowmen and cavalry decimated Wallace's spearmen, forcing him to retreat.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 22, 2024, 08:05:26 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/k5banFw.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 22, 2024, 01:01:06 PM
April 2nd, 1942.

The USS Hornet leaving San Franciso Bay with the US Army air corps bombers on her deck. Doolittle's Raiders on their way to Tokyo for our first strike back after Pearl Harbor.

(https://i.imgur.com/0DjWFyb.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 22, 2024, 11:29:59 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/nutrition/101-year-old-ohio-woman-says-the-secret-to-longevity-is-drinking-i-have-a-whole-bar/ar-AA1eNcwr?ocid=winp

101-Year-Old Ohio Woman Says the Secret to Longevity is Drinking: ‘I Have a Whole Bar’
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 23, 2024, 07:41:29 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
The "Gimli Glider": Air Canada Flight Runs Out of Fuel Mid-Flight (1983)
The "Gimli Glider" is the nickname given to Air Canada Flight 143, which ran out of fuel on a routine flight from Montreal to Edmonton in 1983. The crew was able to glide the aircraft safely to an emergency landing at a retired airstrip in Gimli, Manitoba, even through part of the runway had been converted into a racetrack and a large event was being held there at the time. Amazingly, no passengers or bystanders suffered any serious injuries.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 23, 2024, 08:24:39 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/svqJl5w.jpeg)

A view of the Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium after implosion during its demolition in August 1997. Originally named Atlanta Stadium it opened April 9, 1965 and was home to the Braves and Falcons plus the venue for numerous concerts including the one and only appearance of the Beatles on August 18, 1965. Other performers through the years included Led Zeppelin, Marvin Gaye, Elton John, and ZZ Top.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 23, 2024, 09:38:30 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/N2t66OV.png)

The Hiwassee Loop is one of the most unique structures on the historic “Old Line” , creating one of only three points in the United States where railroad tracks loop over themselves to gain elevation within limited space. Today passengers can load directly onto a train at a parking lot on 411 so you can enjoy a 50-mile, 3.5 hour scenic round trip journey through the Cherokee National Forest, alongside the Hiwassee River and Gorge and then around the historic  Loop to the mining town of Copperhill.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 23, 2024, 10:02:47 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/IeKU15Z.jpeg)

Rumbling Bridge, near Kinross, Scotland. The upper section was built in 1816, while the lower bridge was built in 1713.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 23, 2024, 10:20:57 PM
At the 1972 Munich Olympics, wrestling fans witnessed an incredible moment that would be remembered for decades. Wilfred Dietrich, at the age of 38, executed what is often hailed as the greatest throw in wrestling history. Facing off against Chris Taylor, a colossal 444-pound opponent, Dietrich showcased his extraordinary skill and strength in the Greco-Roman wrestling event. This legendary throw not only stunned the audience but also solidified Dietrich's place in wrestling

(https://i.imgur.com/6QnuW99.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 24, 2024, 08:07:35 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Hiram Bingham III Locates Machu Picchu (1911)
Bingham was an American archaeologist who explored the Inca ruins of Machu Picchu, which he incorrectly identified as the "lost city" of Vilcabamba, bringing them to the attention of the outside world for the first time. Ironically, he was also the first modern explorer to reach Espiritu Pampa, found 60 mi (110 km) east of Machu Picchu, a site now widely recognized as the actual remains of Vilcabamba.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 24, 2024, 08:15:20 AM
Did you know that Sir Hiram Stevens Maxim, an American electrical engineer with an IQ four standard deviations above the mean, found himself entangled in an extraordinary tale of innovation and international intrigue? Working alongside Thomas Edison, Maxim is often credited with inventing the lightbulb, though Edison's maneuverings eventually forced Maxim out of the U.S. Under a lucrative deal, Maxim was paid a staggering $20,000 a year (equivalent to $643,000 today) to relocate to Europe and never touch anything related to electricity again.
But Maxim's genius didn't stop there. He held patents on an astonishing array of mechanical devices—from hair-curling irons to steam pumps—and even invented the world's first portable automatic machine gun. It was an invention born out of a chilling suggestion at the Paris Exhibition in 1881: to create a device that could efficiently kill in wartime. Maxim's machine gun, sold to both England and Germany just before World War I, revolutionized warfare, ushering in an era of devastating conflict marked by trench warfare and staggering casualties.
Maxim's story is a testament to both the heights of human ingenuity and the profound impacts—both intended and unintended—of technological innovation. Imagine the world today without these pivotal inventions. How might history have unfolded differently?


(https://i.imgur.com/HXvHM3K.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 24, 2024, 10:05:29 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/09Jonea.jpeg)

nother Cline chrome era postcard showing the red hills in the Copper Basin.  Probably circa late 1950's - circa 1960's.  Back of the postcard states this is the Highway Crossing the Center of the Copper Basin between Copperhill and Ducktown.  Great view of days gone by in southeastern Polk County.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 24, 2024, 10:06:07 AM
I recall driving through there with my mom in 1965ish.  There wasn't a shred of green anywhere for miles.  And people lived amidst it.  Copper smelter.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 24, 2024, 11:41:48 AM

On July 24 in Baseball History...

1882 - Chicago sets a National League record for runs by beating Cleveland 35-4 (BASTAGES). Seven Chicago players get four or more hits, and six score four or more runs. The record will last until June 29, 1897, when Chicago will pile up thirty-six runs against Louisville.

1968 - Hoyt Wilhelm's 907th game breaks Cy Young's record for Major League pitching appearances, but he loses a 2-1 decision to Oakland.

1973 - The National League wins the All-Star Game at Kansas City 7-1. A record fifty-four players are used, including Willie Mays, who strikes out in his final All-Star appearance, and Catfish Hunter, who sustains a fractured thumb that will sideline him for four weeks. The A's ace has a 15-3 record at the time.

1977 - Seattle's John Montague pitches 6 1/3 innings of perfect relief against California, giving him thirty-three consecutive batsmen retired over two games to tie the American League record.

1978 - Pete Rose singles twice during the Reds' 5-3 win over the Mets, extending his hitting streak to thirty-seven games to tie the modern Major League record held by Tommy Holmes. Mets pitcher Pat Zachry, after allowing Rose's first hit, kicks the dugout steps in anger, breaking his foot and ending his season.

1979 - Carl Yastrzemski hits his four-hundredth career home run in Boston's 7�3 win over Oakland, off Mike Morgan, in the seventh inning at Fenway Park.

1983 - In the memorable Pine Tar Game at Yankee Stadium, George Brett hits an apparent 2-run home run off Rich Gossage to give the Royals a 5-4 lead with two outs in the ninth inning. But Yankees manager Billy Martin points out that the pine tar on Brett's bat handle exceeds the seventeen inches allowed in the rules. As a result, Brett is called out for illegally batting the ball, giving New York a 4-3 victory. The Royals immediately protest, and American League President Lee MacPhail overrules his umpires for the first time saying that, while the rules should certainly be rewritten and clarified, the home run will stand and the game will be resumed from that point on August 18.

1993 - Mets outfielder Vince Coleman throws an explosive device - the equivalent of a quarter stick of dynamite - at fans after a game at Dodger Stadium. Amanda Santos, 2, suffers injuries to her cheek, finger and eye, and two others complain of injuries as well. Prosecutors decide to charge Coleman with a felony rather than a misdemeanor because of the explosive's strength and the amount of damage. The Mets later announce the high-priced Coleman will never again play for the team; he doesn't.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 24, 2024, 12:29:34 PM
Why would a baseball player bring a "quarter stick of dynamite" to a baseball game?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 24, 2024, 02:27:33 PM
In the fascinating world of Hollywood casting decisions, the story of who almost played Atticus Finch in "To Kill a Mockingbird" is a tale of missed opportunities and unexpected turns. Harper Lee, the esteemed author, had a clear favorite in mind: Spencer Tracy. She ardently expressed her preference to the film's producers, Alan Pakula and director Richard Mulligan, insisting that only Tracy could embody the role.
But fate had other plans. Tracy, already immersed in filming alongside Frank Sinatra in "The Devil at Four O'Clock," declined Lee's offer due to his hectic schedule and the demands of his declining health exacerbated by years of alcoholism and smoking. Even if he had accepted, his age and diminished stamina posed significant challenges.
In the quest for the ideal Atticus, other notable names like Bing Crosby and Rock Hudson expressed interest, but it was Gregory Peck who ultimately seized the opportunity. After a late-night reading session that left him captivated by Lee's novel, Peck passionately convinced Pakula and Mulligan that he was destined for the role.
"I felt I could climb into Atticus's shoes without any play-acting, that I could be him," Peck declared, sealing his fate as the iconic Atticus Finch and earning himself an Academy Award.
In the end, Tracy's reluctance opened the door for Peck's unforgettable portrayal, reminding us how close Hollywood came to a different Atticus. It's a tale where destiny pivoted on a few pivotal decisions, shaping cinematic history as we know it.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on July 24, 2024, 02:30:32 PM
I like Spencer Tracy just fine but I can't imagine anyone other than Gregory Peck for that role, he was masterful.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 24, 2024, 02:33:12 PM
I suppose I should watch that movie someday, I guess. I've read the book, twice I think, and then also read Go Set A Watchman just to see what all the hullaballoo was about. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 24, 2024, 02:33:35 PM
I was musing about "movies that should NEVER be remade (or colorized)".  That would be near the top of my list.

Casablanca.  Cool Hand Luke.  In the Heat of the Night.  Dr. Strangelove.  The Outlaw Josey Wales.  I'm sure there are others.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on July 24, 2024, 02:39:56 PM
I was musing about "movies that should NEVER be remade (or colorized)".  That would be near the top of my list.

Casablanca.  Cool Hand Luke.  In the Heat of the Night.  Dr. Strangelove.  The Outlaw Josey Wales.  I'm sure there are others.
Agree on all of the above.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 24, 2024, 08:46:24 PM
Why would a baseball player bring a "quarter stick of dynamite" to a baseball game?
Fan of Jimmie "JJ" Walker?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 24, 2024, 09:29:59 PM
On July 24 in Baseball History...

1983 - In the memorable Pine Tar Game at Yankee Stadium, George Brett hits an apparent 2-run home run off Rich Gossage to give the Royals a 5-4 lead with two outs in the ninth inning. But Yankees manager Billy Martin points out that the pine tar on Brett's bat handle exceeds the seventeen inches allowed in the rules. As a result, Brett is called out for illegally batting the ball, giving New York a 4-3 victory. The Royals immediately protest, and American League President Lee MacPhail overrules his umpires for the first time saying that, while the rules should certainly be rewritten and clarified, the home run will stand and the game will be resumed from that point on August 18.



luv it
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 24, 2024, 09:44:57 PM
Ha Billy was a drunk how could he see it or even know such an obscure rule existed. No one had ever heard of it that I knew of
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 24, 2024, 10:07:00 PM
drunks are smart folks

as far as you know
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 24, 2024, 10:30:09 PM
More old drunks than there are old doctors
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 25, 2024, 08:09:59 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Svetlana Savitskaya Becomes the First Woman to Perform a Spacewalk (1984)
Savitskaya is a former Soviet female aviator and cosmonaut who flew aboard Soyuz T-7 in 1982, becoming the second woman in space some 19 years after Valentina Tereshkova. She logged nearly 20 days in space during her career, including three and a half hours spent outside the Salyut 7 space station in 1984, when she became the first woman to perform a spacewalk. Before becoming a cosmonaut, she was a test and sport pilot and a parachutist.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 25, 2024, 09:32:21 AM
June 28, 1951 marked the CBS debut of “The Amos 'n' Andy Show,” Television’s first Black sitcom.

Pictured are the show’s stars: (1951–53). Spencer Williams (Andy), Tim Moore (Kingfish), and Alvin Childress (Amos)

(https://i.imgur.com/AskmVTe.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 25, 2024, 11:31:56 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/wkB2CQe.png)

Little misconception that people don't realize is that SPAM was not inveted for WWII as many claim.. It was actually invented in 1937 by Hormel. Hormel was the first ever to can meat on a national level and they did so with canned ham.  In the years before 1937 it was a premium product, but the great depression pretty much crippled that business for them.  They also were the first to guarantee wages for employees after the riots on their offices on November 11th 1933. 5 years before federal minimum wage was established.  The canned ham they made was from the premium meat on the hind legs of the pig, they decided to utilize the shoulder butt from the front legs of the hog.  This was extremely cheap, and allowed them to keep their business alive. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 25, 2024, 05:08:44 PM
in Minnesooota
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 26, 2024, 07:32:31 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Battle of Edgecote Moor (1469)
The Battle of Edgecote Moor was an important turning point in the series of dynastic civil wars for the English throne known as the Wars of the Roses (1455-1485). The battle pitted the forces of Richard Neville, Earl of Warwick, against those of King Edward IV. Warwick had once been loyal to Edward and had even helped put him on the throne, but Edward began to resent him and suppress his influence. Angered, Warwick allied with Edward's brother, George, and rose in rebellion.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 26, 2024, 07:36:10 AM
“The French Army is stronger than ever before in its history,” declared Gen. Maxime Weygand, the retired chief of staff. “Its equipment is the best, its fortifications are first rate, its morale is excellent, and it has an outstanding high command. Nobody wants war but if we are forced to win a new victory then we will win it.”
The military editor of The New York Times, Hanson W. Baldwin, was of a similar opinion. “The French army has long been called by experts the ‘best in the world,’ and its finest divisions undoubtedly are unmatched,” he said.
The French were ahead of the Germans, or nearly so, in almost every category of military power. They had more tanks, more artillery, more men under arms, and about the same number of combat airplanes.
The entire French-German border, from Basel in Switzerland to the Longwy on the Luxembourg frontier, was protected by the Maginot Line, a continuous string of linked concrete fortifications, mine fields, barriers, ditches, and prepared fields of fire.
With reduced requirement for mobile forces on that front, the French could allocate more of their manpower to the Belgian border on the north, where a German attack, if there was one, was expected to come. The lowest priority for defense were the approaches from the Ardennes Forest—regarded as “impenetrable”—between the Maginot Line and Belgium.


The Fall of France | Air & Space Forces Magazine (airandspaceforces.com) (https://www.airandspaceforces.com/article/the-fall-of-france/#:~:text=The French were ahead of,same number of combat airplanes.)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 26, 2024, 01:08:03 PM
This Day in History:

The U.S. Postal Service was established by the Second Continental Congress, and Benjamin Franklin was named the first postmaster general.

This Day in Baseball History:

July 26, 1911
Christy Mathewson wins his 21st straight game against the Cincinnati Reds, 5 – 3

July 26, 1916
Tigers favorite Harry Heilmann gets an appreciative hand from the crowd for having dived into the Detroit River last night to save a woman from drowning.

July 26, 1928
Yankees score 11 in the 12th to break a 1-1 game wide open and Bob Meusel hits for the Cycle

July 26, 1933
Future Yankees superstar Joe DiMaggio sees his 61-game hitting streak come to an end(against the Indians at old Municipal Stadium 😎)

July 26, 1992
Nolan Ryan strikes out his 100th batter, reaching that mark for a record 23rd year in a row. He subdues the Orioles, 6 – 2, and passes Phil Niekro as number 12 on the all-time win list with 319. Juan Gonzalez helps with a 450-foot homer to center field, the longest yet at Camden Yards.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 27, 2024, 07:39:01 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Centennial Olympic Park Bombing (1996)
During the 1996 Summer Olympics in Atlanta, Georgia, a bombing in Centennial Olympic Park killed one person and injured 111 others. Despite the attack, officials and athletes agreed that the games should continue. Security guard Richard Jewell was initially hailed as a hero for discovering the bomb and helping clear the area before it detonated, but he soon fell under suspicion and was vilified by various media outlets before finally being exonerated.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 27, 2024, 09:58:34 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Korean War ended in 1953
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on July 27, 2024, 09:59:39 AM
Technically, it didn't end.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 28, 2024, 07:37:48 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Summer Jam at Watkins Glen (1973)
Summer Jam at Watkins Glen was a 1973 rock festival that drew more attendees than any pop music festival before it. An estimated 600,000 fans flocked to the Watkins Glen Grand Prix Raceway outside of Watkins Glen, New York, to see performances by The Allman Brothers Band, The Band, and the Grateful Dead. In fact, so many concertgoers arrived early that the bands performed an impromptu concert during their sound checks the day before the festival.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 28, 2024, 10:14:11 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

1875 - Philadelphia's Joe Borden, also known by the name Josephs, pitches the first no-hitter in Major League history, beating the Chicago White Stockings 4-0. The game takes one hour and 35 minutes to play

1914 Austria-Hungary decides against mediation and declares war on Serbia - first declaration of war (Word War I begins)

1943 Operation Gomorrah: RAF bombing over Hamburg causes a firestorm that kills 42,600 German civilians

1976 Tangshan Earthquake, 7.6 in magnitude, kills over 300,000 in northern China, the largest loss of life from an earthquake in the 20th century

1979 Dave Kingman of the Chicago Cubs hit three home runs in a game for the second time in the season and became the sixth player in Major League history to accomplish the feat. Kingman's homers weren't enough as the Cubs lost to the New York Mets 6-4.

1991 - Dennis Martinez pitched a perfect game as the Montreal Expos beat Los Angeles 2-0 at Dodger Stadium

2005 The Provisional Irish Republican Army call an end to their thirty year long armed campaign in Northern Ireland
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 29, 2024, 07:50:30 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) Established (1958)
NASA is an agency of the US government charged with aeronautics research and the nation's civilian space program. During its history, it has been responsible for manned trips to the Moon, orbiting observatories, and unmanned programs that explored other planets and interplanetary space. Today, its goals include improving human understanding of the universe and establishing a permanent human presence in space.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 29, 2024, 12:50:00 PM
1916 Cochrane and Matheson forest fire 500,000 acres (2,000 km2) in size in Ontario takes about 223 lives. Leads to improved techniques and legislation for prevention and control of forest fires.

1915 Pirate Honus Wagner at 41, hits a grand slam HR

1921 Adolf Hitler becomes leader of the National Socialist German Workers Party

1921 Cleveland's 125th anniversary celebration: Cy Young, aged 54, pitches two innings

1928 Cleveland Indians score 17 in the first 2 innings to beat the New York Yankees 24-6 at Dunn Field, setting a record with 24 singles in one game




1965 Major league record 26 strikeouts, Phillies (16), Pirates (10)

1967 Fire aboard aircraft carrier USS Forrestal in the Gulf of Tonkin kills 134 sailors

1967 The Doors' single "Light My Fire" hits #1 in the US

1974 MLB St. Louis Cardinals' Lou Brock steals his 700th base

1988 Rick Sutcliffe swipes home, 1st pitcher since Pascual Perez in 1984 to steal home

2009 Temperature reaches 103°F in Seattle, Washington, the hottest day on record




Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 31, 2024, 07:36:28 AM
The U.S. Secret Service was originally created on July 5, 1865, during the Civil War to fight counterfeiting, which was a huge problem. By the end of the war, between 1/3 and 1/2 of all U.S. paper currency in circulation was counterfeit.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on July 31, 2024, 07:38:48 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Spanish Treasure Fleet Sinks off Florida Coast in Hurricane (1715)
From the 16th to the 18th centuries, the Spanish Empire used a system of convoys, called treasure fleets, to transport a wide variety of items to Spain from its territories in the New World. Seven days after departing from Havana, Cuba, all 11 of the ships in the 1715 treasure fleet sank during a hurricane near present-day Florida, resulting in the deaths of thousands of sailors.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on July 31, 2024, 10:02:02 PM
Before the '76 NFL season the Pats traded Jim Plunket to 49ers for 3 no 1 pix and 1pik in the 2nd round. In 14 games JP threw 9TD and 14 ints -  Jeebis almost as bad as the Browns Deshaun Watkins deal

 Didn't know Randall Cunnigham was the younger brother of Sam "Bam" Cunningham
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 01, 2024, 08:14:22 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

MTV Is Launched (1981)
MTV is an American cable television network that was originally created to broadcast videos of pop and rock musicians. It quickly gained a wide following, and soon virtually all major pop and rock performers were making videos to be aired on MTV. In the 1990s, MTV diversified its programming, airing game shows, cartoons, sitcoms, documentaries, and reality shows. The network has had a profound impact on both the music industry and popular culture.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 02, 2024, 08:28:39 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Potsdam Conference Concludes (1945)
The Potsdam Conference was an Allied conference held in the Berlin suburb of Potsdam after Germany's surrender in World War II. Representing the US, USSR, and UK, respectively, Harry Truman, Joseph Stalin, and Winston Churchill met there to discuss European peace settlements and reparations, the administration of Germany, the demarcation of Poland, the occupation of Austria, the USSR's role in eastern Europe, and the war against Japan.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 02, 2024, 09:17:26 AM
The Louvre Museum in Paris is one of the biggest and most well-known museums out there. It’s situated right between the Seine River and Rue de Rivoli, and it used to be a royal palace with a pretty fascinating backstory. It all started way back in 1190 when Philippe II built the original "Castle of the Louvre" as a fortress to protect Paris from Viking raids. Then, in the 14th century, Charles V turned it into a palace, and it eventually got a makeover from François I and Henri II into something even more impressive. The Louvre opened up to the public as a museum on November 8, 1793, during the French Revolution, which was a big deal as it let everyone get a taste of what the royal palace was like.

(https://i.imgur.com/4OOnq2c.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on August 02, 2024, 09:19:50 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

MTV Is Launched (1981)
MTV is an American cable television network that was originally created to broadcast videos of pop and rock musicians. It quickly gained a wide following, and soon virtually all major pop and rock performers were making videos to be aired on MTV. In the 1990s, MTV diversified its programming, airing game shows, cartoons, sitcoms, documentaries, and reality shows. The network has had a profound impact on both the music industry and popular culture.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8r-tXRLazs
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 02, 2024, 10:43:49 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/YIIwu00.png)

Ain't like dustin' crops.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2024, 07:36:35 AM
To increase the size of the U.S. Army during WWI, Congress passed the Selective Service Act, which was also known as the conscription or draft, in May 1917. By the end of the war, 2.7 million men were drafted. Another 1.3 million volunteered.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2024, 07:41:56 AM
Krypteia

In the Spartan tradition of Krypteia, young men who successfully completed their rigorous training regime were sent into the countryside unarmed and told to kill any members of Sparta's serf population, or "Helots," that they encountered at night and to take any food they needed. The tradition derives it name from a Greek word meaning "hidden, secret things," and its goal and nature are still a matter of debate among historians.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2024, 07:43:07 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

US Senate Ratifies the Antiballistic Missile Treaty (1972)
The Antiballistic Missile (ABM) Treaty of 1972 limited the number of defensive antiballistic missile systems allowed to the US and USSR. Effective ABM systems had been sought since the Cold War, when the nuclear arms race raised the specter of complete destruction by unstoppable ballistic missiles. In the West, the treaty was seen as a deterrent to nuclear war, since neither side would be able to fully protect against nuclear attack.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 03, 2024, 08:28:25 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8r-tXRLazs
(https://i.imgur.com/IeuDGSU.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 03, 2024, 08:51:56 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/ypoqLQe.png)

Nestled among high-rises, the Castle—also called Fort Peace—is one of Atlanta’s unique buildings. It was built by businessman Ferdinand McMillan in 1904 as his retirement home.

Interestingly, it's now a Persian restaurant called Divan.  They did a great job on the restoration.  Most buildings from this time period were demolished.

Home | Divan Persian (divanatlanta.com) (https://www.divanatlanta.com/)

We dined there once, I liked it a lot, my wife prefers the other Persian place down the street.

I wish we had a French restaurant around, but probably I'd be spending too much if we did.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 03, 2024, 11:31:32 AM
On this Date:
 Columbus on this day in 1492 set sail on the ocean blue 

John T. Scopes born in 1900 D. 1970

1921 -  eight Chicago White Sox players were banned from baseball for life, accused of receiving bribes to intentionally lose the 1919 World Series.

1934 Adolf Hitler merges the offices of German Chancellor and President, declaring himself "Führer" (leader)

1936 American sprinter Jesse Owens wins the 100m (10.3 seconds) in front of Adolf Hitler in a famous race at the Berlin Olympics, first of 4 gold medals at the Games

1949 Basketball Association of America (BAA) & National Basketball League (NBL) merge to form National Basketball Association (NBA), Maurice Podoloff elected head of new league

1958 - The U.S. atomic submarine Nautilus passed beneath the thick ice cap of the North Pole, an unprecedented feat.

1968 100,000 attend two-day Newport Pop Festival in Costa Mesa, California; performers included Alice Cooper, Canned Heat, The Chambers Brothers, Country Joe and the Fish, Paul Butterfield Blues Band, Sonny & Cher, Steppenwolf, Tiny Tim, The Animals, Grateful Dead, Jefferson Airplane, Quicksilver Messenger Service, and The Byrds

1984 American gymnast Mary Lou Retton won the all-around event at the Los Angeles Games, becoming the first American woman to win an individual Olympic gold medal in gymnastics.

Tom Brady - 47th Birthday

Martin Sheen - 84th Birthday

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 04, 2024, 08:02:57 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Greenwich Foot Tunnel Opens (1902)
The Greenwich Foot Tunnel is a pedestrian tunnel beneath the River Thames in East London, linking Greenwich with the Isle of Dogs. Opened in 1902, the tunnel replaced an occasionally unreliable ferry service and was intended to allow workers living on the south side of the Thames to reach their workplaces in the London docks and shipyards. The tunnel is made of cast-iron rings lined with concrete and covered with some 200,000 white tiles. It is 1,215 ft (370 m) long
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 04, 2024, 10:41:05 AM
Every year, dozens of local boat owners in Wisconsin band together to move a giant floating island on Lake Chippewa, also known as the Chippewa Flowage. This floating island, known as the "Forty Acre Bog," is composed of peat, plant roots, mud, and even mature trees. These trees act as sails, catching the wind and moving the island around the lake. When the bog drifts and blocks a crucial bridge connecting the east and west sides of the lake, it requires a community effort to push it back into position using their boats.

The floating bogs formed over time as peat bogs from the lake's swampy bottom rose to the surface, creating a habitat rich in biodiversity. Moving the bog is a complex task that relies on favorable wind conditions, and it often requires multiple attempts to place it correctly, or it will drift back within days. This annual task, while challenging, highlights the community's dedication to preserving the natural environment and maintaining access across the lake. The floating bog is legally protected and cannot be broken apart, adding to the complexity of the task. Despite their best efforts, there are occasions when the bog gets stuck on obstacles like rocks, necessitating repeated efforts to clear the passage.

(https://i.imgur.com/H6JxalW.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 04, 2024, 09:35:54 PM

On this Date:1985

On the same day Rod Carew got his 3,000th hit in Anaheim, White Sox pitcher Tom Seaver won his 300th career game by beating the Yankees, 4-1, at Yankee Stadium. The Sox scored four times in the sixth inning to put Seaver in a position to get the milestone win, and he got late-inning defensive help when Harold Baines climbed the right field wall to rob Willie Randolph of an extra-base hit with men on base.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 05, 2024, 06:37:57 AM
The largest human gathering on earth is the Kumbh Mela. A spiritual gathering held every three years, this Hindu festival attracts over 100 million people.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 05, 2024, 06:38:38 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Battle of Dogger Bank (1781)
The Battle of Dogger Bank was a naval battle that took place in the North Sea during the Fourth Anglo-Dutch War, which broke out over Dutch trade with Britain's enemies during the American Revolution. The battle is therefore considered part of the American War of Independence. The clash began after the British spotted and began to chase a Dutch merchant fleet being escorted by a convoy of warships. Both sides suffered significant casualties during the three-hour skirmish.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on August 05, 2024, 08:42:50 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/IeuDGSU.png)
As a tail end Gen X MTV was so important to my generation.  I tell stories to the younger guys I work with (millennials) about how we would go to a friends house and watch MTV.  It was a thing.  We'd watch it for hours, soaking up the videos and the like.  We didn't even have cable in my neighborhood until probably the late 80's, and I'm not sure we even had MTV until the early 90's.  
I asked my friend how the younger generation views MTV, he said "Teen Mom".  Sad.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 05, 2024, 08:45:20 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/z4LQPPO.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: LetsGoPeay on August 05, 2024, 11:10:38 AM
Krypteia

In the Spartan tradition of Krypteia, young men who successfully completed their rigorous training regime were sent into the countryside unarmed and told to kill any members of Sparta's serf population, or "Helots," that they encountered at night and to take any food they needed. The tradition derives it name from a Greek word meaning "hidden, secret things," and its goal and nature are still a matter of debate among historians.

Dan Cummins does an episode on the Spartans on his Timesuck podcast. It's pretty informative but with his usual twisted comedic spin. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 05, 2024, 11:20:43 AM
1936 American sprinter Jesse Owens wins the 100m (10.3 seconds) in front of Adolf Hitler in a famous race at the Berlin Olympics, first of 4 gold medals at the Games
Ohio State Alum!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on August 05, 2024, 11:21:29 AM
On the same day Rod Carew got his 3,000th hit in Anaheim, White Sox pitcher Tom Seaver won his 300th career game by beating the Yankees, 4-1, at Yankee Stadium. The Sox scored four times in the sixth inning to put Seaver in a position to get the milestone win, and he got late-inning defensive help when Harold Baines climbed the right field wall to rob Willie Randolph of an extra-base hit with men on base.
This name is familiar to me only thanks to Adam Sandler.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 05, 2024, 11:59:06 AM
The Unbelievable Life Of The Soldier Who Couldn't Be Killed

https://youtu.be/_5HA_uXgUiM

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 06, 2024, 09:09:24 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Cosmonaut Gherman Titov Becomes First Man to Spend a Day in Space (1961)
Titov was a Soviet cosmonaut and the second man to orbit the Earth, preceded just months earlier by Yuri Gagarin, with whom he had trained. At 25 years old, Titov was selected to fly the Vostok 2 mission and spent 25 hours in space, completing 17 Earth orbits. The mission brought him several impressive designations: youngest person to fly in space, first person to experience space sickness, and first person to sleep in space.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 06, 2024, 10:57:23 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/zYW7tyo.png) (https://i.imgur.com/JDlTgwa.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/Dzfyfci.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on August 06, 2024, 11:07:29 AM
A little over 20 years ago, there was a standards battle for Wifi between 802.11 and bluetooth.  Because of its longer range and a few other advantages, 802.11 won that standards battle and it looked for a time like Bluetooth was going to vanish.

But then a funny thing happened-- the smartphone became ubiquitous, and it turns out that bluetooth was more effective for the short range duties of tying peripherals into that device and its ecosystem.  Same thing for computers and their short range peripherals.  And pretty much all other smart enabled technologies that didn't require dozens of yards of connectivity.

Now both technologies thrive, but there was a time when bluetooth was almost thrown on the scrapheap.



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 06, 2024, 03:39:57 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/YOqXlgX.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 06, 2024, 04:23:27 PM
hah!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 07, 2024, 07:52:29 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/QNjjuLc.png)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 07, 2024, 08:22:27 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

United States Embassy Bombings (1998)
On August 7, 1998, hundreds of people were killed in simultaneous truck bomb explosions at the US embassies in the major East African cities of Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya. The attacks, linked to local members of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad, brought Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri to American attention and resulted in the US Federal Bureau of Investigation placing bin Laden on its Ten Most Wanted list.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 07, 2024, 11:15:21 AM
In the late colonial era, fathers typically supported their daughters by helping them find suitable husbands, providing dowries, and sometimes arranging for their education to help them manage large households. However, Eliza Pinckney’s father took a different approach. He entrusted his 16-year-old daughter with the responsibility of managing his struggling rice plantations in South Carolina while he returned to the West Indies. Her dowry consisted of access to her father’s business connections, a collection of seeds sent from, and a group of enslaved people whose labor was crucial to her business's success.
These assets proved to be a fortuitous combination for a young woman like Pinckney, whose favorite subject at her British finishing school had been botany, rather than the more traditional French or needlework. Embracing her interest in botany, Pinckney conducted experiments with various crops, including alfalfa, ginger, hemp, and flax. Her most significant achievement came when she successfully developed a new strain of indigo. This innovation met the high demand from English textile mills, which were constantly seeking new dyes.
Within a few years, indigo became South Carolina’s second-largest cash crop, transforming the colony's economy and securing Pinckney's financial independence. Her newfound wealth and success allowed her to reject suitors chosen by her father and instead select her own husband. Eliza Pinckney's influence and prominence were such that George Washington served as a pallbearer at her funeral in 1793.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 08, 2024, 07:50:51 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/L1IHety.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 08, 2024, 07:59:06 AM
Is that Houston before the Astrodome?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 08, 2024, 08:21:04 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

8888 Popular Uprising (1988)
In the early 1970s, various insurgent groups controlled about one third of Burma. Economic strife and ethnic tensions throughout the 1970s and 80s led to antigovernment riots that began on August 8, 1988—08-08-88—and led to the resignation of President Ne Win. Succeeding governments failed to restore order, and the military seized control under the name of the State Law and Order Restoration Council. Burma was renamed Myanmar three years later.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 08, 2024, 09:15:43 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/hef4wdR.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 08, 2024, 10:23:02 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/IusPXBS.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 08, 2024, 10:44:10 AM
Today in 1951, Fleet Air Arm Commander, Capt Dennis Cambell DSC RN submits his idea for the angled flight deck for aircraft carriers to allow for take off and landing to happen almost simultaneously and to limit the loss of aircraft should there be a crash on deck.

HMS TRIUMPH is selected to have an offset deck painted to test the theory and proves successful. In 1953, the US NAVY sends the carrier USS ANTIETAM to the UK for trials and the idea is taken on by the US NAVY and most other carrier nations to this day.


(https://i.imgur.com/urnVLXl.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 08, 2024, 11:52:32 AM
Viking swords crafted using advanced technology that they didn’t have?
The famous “Ulfberht” swords, were made with advanced technology that the Norse themselves did not possess. These swords were crafted from high-quality steel that was unusually pure for the time, indicating the use of advanced smelting techniques. The inscriptions “Ulfberht” on these swords suggest they were produced by a specific group of blacksmiths or a trade network capable of accessing superior steel-making technology.
The remarkable quality of these swords has led to speculation that the Vikings acquired them through trade with regions that had more advanced metallurgical knowledge, such as the Middle East. The steel used in Ulfberht swords contains very few impurities and has a high carbon content, characteristics similar to crucible steel or Damascus steel, which was being produced in the Islamic world during that era. The Norse themselves did not have the technology to create such steel, which involved a complex process of heating and cooling to achieve the right properties.
This advanced technology made Ulfberht swords highly sought after, as they were superior to most contemporary European weapons. They were more durable, could hold a sharper edge, and were lighter and more flexible, providing a significant advantage in battle. The presence of these swords among the Vikings showcases the extensive trade networks and the cultural exchanges that occurred during the Viking Age.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 09, 2024, 08:50:06 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

"Fat Man" Detonated over Nagasaki, Japan (1945)
During WWII, Nagasaki became the target of the second atomic bomb ever detonated on a populated area. Three days after the US dropped a uranium bomb on Hiroshima, a more powerful plutonium device, code-named "Fat Man," was dropped on Nagasaki. Approximately 40,000 people were killed outright, and a total of 75,000 were killed or wounded. More than a third of the city was devastated. The necessity of the attack is still debated.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 09, 2024, 10:08:40 AM
Well I was going to give the thumbs up like - tough but it was a necessary.Many,many,GIs wouldn't have come home.More than D-Day and perhaps even the Bulge. Hirohito not the US owns that disaster their people got to see for themselves he was no god,not even decent really a sham little shit riding his horse thinking himself royal
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2024, 10:13:52 AM
There still is debate over the need for a second attack.  I think it's a close hypothetical.  

More people died in the Tokyo fire bombing raid than in either A bomb attacks.

We had an interesting visit to Nagasaki, including Ground Zero.  A young girl 600 yards away survived (in a cave).  The B-29, Bocks Car, is in the Dayton AF Museum.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2024, 10:19:42 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/VTpcJhC.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/CHjlODh.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 09, 2024, 10:20:20 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/8wdKK6C.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 10, 2024, 08:15:21 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Pueblo Revolt Begins (1680)
The Pueblo Revolt was an uprising of Native American communities against Spanish colonization in New Mexico. Organized by a medicine man called Popé and other Pueblo leaders, the uprising led to the deaths of some 400 colonists and missionaries and forced the surviving Spaniards to retreat to El Paso, freeing the Pueblo of Spanish rule for the first time in 82 years. However, internal dissension and Apache raids soon weakened the unity of the Pueblo.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 12, 2024, 07:47:49 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Night of the Murdered Poets (1952)
In one of the instances of violent anti-Semitism during Joseph Stalin's regime, 15 Soviet Jews linked to the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee were falsely accused of espionage, treason, and other crimes. After their arrests, they were tortured and isolated for three years before being formally charged. In 1952, 13 of them were executed in Moscow on a night remembered as the "Night of the Murdered Poets," named after five of the prisoners, who were Yiddish writers.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 12, 2024, 09:03:56 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/FN4UHZj.jpeg)
Check out this triple threat… George “The grand old man” Blanda, Daryle “The mad bomber” Lamonica and a young Kenny “The snake” Stabler” check out “The Ghost” Dave Casper photobombing !
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 12, 2024, 09:22:09 AM
Kenny looks to be huffing/puffing even then one cool customer though
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on August 12, 2024, 09:28:10 AM
Viking swords crafted using advanced technology that they didn’t have?
The famous “Ulfberht” swords, were made with advanced technology that the Norse themselves did not possess. These swords were crafted from high-quality steel that was unusually pure for the time, indicating the use of advanced smelting techniques. The inscriptions “Ulfberht” on these swords suggest they were produced by a specific group of blacksmiths or a trade network capable of accessing superior steel-making technology.
The remarkable quality of these swords has led to speculation that the Vikings acquired them through trade with regions that had more advanced metallurgical knowledge, such as the Middle East. The steel used in Ulfberht swords contains very few impurities and has a high carbon content, characteristics similar to crucible steel or Damascus steel, which was being produced in the Islamic world during that era. The Norse themselves did not have the technology to create such steel, which involved a complex process of heating and cooling to achieve the right properties.
This advanced technology made Ulfberht swords highly sought after, as they were superior to most contemporary European weapons. They were more durable, could hold a sharper edge, and were lighter and more flexible, providing a significant advantage in battle. The presence of these swords among the Vikings showcases the extensive trade networks and the cultural exchanges that occurred during the Viking Age.
Were they made with Valeryian steel?  :) 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Temp430 on August 12, 2024, 10:10:36 AM
Viking swords crafted using advanced technology that they didn’t have?
The famous “Ulfberht” swords, were made with advanced technology that the Norse themselves did not possess. These swords were crafted from high-quality steel that was unusually pure for the time, indicating the use of advanced smelting techniques. The inscriptions “Ulfberht” on these swords suggest they were produced by a specific group of blacksmiths or a trade network capable of accessing superior steel-making technology.
The remarkable quality of these swords has led to speculation that the Vikings acquired them through trade with regions that had more advanced metallurgical knowledge, such as the Middle East. The steel used in Ulfberht swords contains very few impurities and has a high carbon content, characteristics similar to crucible steel or Damascus steel, which was being produced in the Islamic world during that era. The Norse themselves did not have the technology to create such steel, which involved a complex process of heating and cooling to achieve the right properties.
This advanced technology made Ulfberht swords highly sought after, as they were superior to most contemporary European weapons. They were more durable, could hold a sharper edge, and were lighter and more flexible, providing a significant advantage in battle. The presence of these swords among the Vikings showcases the extensive trade networks and the cultural exchanges that occurred during the Viking Age.



There are many examples of swords contemporary with the Ulfberht swords that have similar metal letter inlays but are made from inferior steel.  Perhaps the first knockoffs in human history.  The Russians blocked the trade route from Iran and Afghanistan in the 11th century so with the high demand came the fake Ulfberht swords.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 12, 2024, 12:13:02 PM
On this date in History

1851 American inventor Isaac Singer patents his famous sewing machine

1877 To his amazement, Thomas Edison records himself reciting "Mary had a little lamb" on his just completed cylinder phonograph, a device that recorded sound onto tinfoil cylinders

1908 Ford Motor Company builds its first Model T car, which Henry Ford himself first tests on a hunting trip to Wisconsin and northern Michigan

1914 France and Great Britain declare war on Austria-Hungary

1930 Clarence Birdseye is granted a patent for method for quick freezing food

1945 Emperor Hirohito of Japan informs the imperial family that he has decided to surrender

1948 Cleveland Indians get 29 hits in a 9 inning game

1970 Curt Flood loses his $41 million antitrust suit against baseball

1977 For 2nd straight day, Oakland's Manny Sanguillen foils a no-hit bid 

1978 NFL New England Patriots wide receiver Darryl Stingley suffers a spinal cord injury leaving him with incomplete quadriplegia from a hit by Oakland Raiders Jack Tatum, in a pre-season exhibition game

1981 Don Estridge unveils the company's first personal computer, the IBM PC, at New York’s Waldorf Hotel. Priced at USD 1,565 with 16 kilobytes of RAM, it helps bring computing to the masses
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 13, 2024, 07:15:06 AM
The first X-ray (or roentgenogram) was of Roentgen’s wife’s hand, complete with wedding ring, in 1895. His wife was less than impressed and declared: “I have seen my death!”
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 13, 2024, 07:18:40 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Opha Mae Johnson Becomes First Woman to Enlist in the US Marine Corps (1918)
During World War I, the US Secretary of the Navy decided to allow women to join the Marine Corps Reserve so that they could take over clerical duties being performed at the time by battle-ready Marines who were needed overseas. Johnson, who was 18 at the time, was the first woman to enlist. It would be another 25 years before the Marines began letting women fill non-clerical positions like parachute rigger, mechanic, and cryptographer.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 13, 2024, 07:49:44 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/muofi7G.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 14, 2024, 08:43:14 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Battle of Aljubarrota (1385)
At a time of war, famine, and plague in Europe, the Portuguese village of Aljubarrota became the site of a momentous battle in which the Portuguese, aided by English archers, defeated the forces of the Spanish King John I of Castile, assuring Portuguese independence from the Castilian crown. Nuno Álvares Pereira, the man who led the revolt against Castilian domination, emerged from the battle a hero. He later became a monk and was recently canonized.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 14, 2024, 04:36:18 PM
Running deer shooting was an Olympic sport that was held from 1908 to 1924, and again in 1952 and 1956. The event involved shooting at a deer-shaped target that moved 75 feet across a 20-meter-wide opening at a speed of 4 seconds per run. The shooter stood 110 yards away and could take one or two shots at each run. The target had three concentric circles, with the smallest circle worth four points, the middle circle worth three points, and the outermost circle worth two points. A hit outside the circles but still on the target was worth one point. The maximum score for a single-shot run was 40 points, and the maximum score for a double-shot run was 80 points.

(https://i.imgur.com/gRxNmwQ.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 15, 2024, 08:20:32 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Foundation Stone Laid for Cologne Cathedral in Germany (1248)
The Cologne Cathedral is the largest in northern Europe. It contains the paintings of Stephen Lochner and is believed to hold the relics of the Wise Men of the East. Built in the Gothic style, it was begun in 1248 on the site of an older church. The nave and two spires—each of which is 515 ft (157 m) high—were included in the original plans but built later, between 1842 and 1880. For the next four years, it was the tallest structure in the world.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 16, 2024, 07:52:19 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Joseph Kittinger Parachutes from a Balloon at 102,800 feet (31,300 m) (1960)
Kittinger is a former command pilot and career military officer in the US Air Force known for setting a number of records, including highest parachute jump and fastest speed reached by a human traveling through the atmosphere. In 1960, as part of the Air Force's Project Excelsior, he jumped from a balloon nearly 20 miles above the earth and fell for 4 minutes and 36 seconds before opening his parachute.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 16, 2024, 09:27:15 AM
Aug. 13, 1964 - CBS has purchased an 80% interest in the New York Yankee baseball organization from Daniel Topping and Del Webb. Topping and Webb retained 20% of the stock.
The acquisition of a major sports power by a major broadcasting power was confirmed today by Joe Cronin, president of the American League.
He said the league had been “advised that if approval was granted, the New York Yankees will be a separate entity and an autonomous organization independent of CBS, with Dan Topping as president and other members of the organization continuing to formulate policy and manage the Yankee organization.”
League approval was not unanimous. Charles O. Finley, the owner of the Kansas City Athletics, and Arthur Allyn, owner of the Chicago White Sox, were outspoken in their dissent. But the eight other franchises, including the Yankees, gave the necessary three-quarters approval in a vote by telegram and mail conducted by Cronin.
The assets of the Yankees consist of the players on the parent team and the farm-club affiliates — but not Yankee Stadium. The team sold the Stadium several years ago and leases it from the current owner, Rice University of Houston.
Topping and Webb changed the structure of their ownership from a partnership to a corporation with the sale. The price has not been revealed, but a conservative estimate would be $15 million.
The ownership of a baseball team by a broadcasting company could bring up several problems. Ed Short, general manager of the White Sox, said he had withheld his approval of the purchase “because of ramifications regarding open television-radio bidding on the World Series, the All-Star Game, and the Game-of-the-Week program.”
Finley described the transaction as “just another perfect example of the shenanigans of the American League president and the New York Yankees.”
“I’m confused and concerned,” said Finley. “I feel that we owners should have had an opportunity to hear the proposal and to ask questions. I think I am entitled to that courtesy and consideration as a partner, and I have not received it.”


(https://i.imgur.com/rdRgCWl.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 16, 2024, 11:18:45 AM
1777 American militiamen defeat British forces at the Battle of Bennington near Vermont, during the American Revolutionary War

1780 British decisively defeat Americans in Battle of Camden, South Carolina

1812 General Hull surrenders Detroit and Michigan territory to British forces under the command of Major General Sir Isaac Brock, who capture Fort Detroit with the help of Indigenous warriors led by Tecumseh

1861 US President Abraham Lincoln prohibits Union states from trading with Confederacy

1904 NYC begins building Grand Central Station

1920 Cleveland Indians shortstop Ray Chapman is hit in head by NY Yankees pitcher Carl Mays; he dies the next day in only MLB game related fatality

1947 Future Baseball HOF outfielder Ralph Kiner hits 3 successive HRs for host Pittsburgh Pirates in a 12-7 win over St. Louis Cardinals; both clubs smash a then MLB record 10 homers

1948 Arabs blow up Latrun pumping station in Jerusalem

1954 American brand management company Authentic Brands Group first publishes sports magazine "Sports Illustrated"

1962 Ringo Starr replaces Pete Best as Beatles' drummer, first official concert two days later

1964 St. Louis Cardinals center fielder Curt Flood gets 8 straight hits in a doubleheader split against the Los Angeles Dodgers at Dodger Stadium

1988 IBM introduces software for artificial intelligence

2021 US President Joe Biden says "I stands squarely behind my decision" to withdraw US troops from Afghanistan, despite sudden collapse of the country to the Taliban
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 17, 2024, 09:33:02 PM
The Mystery of the Loretto Chapel!
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Ny4uGjSA9tk?feature=share
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 18, 2024, 08:16:08 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Lost Colony: The Colony of Roanoke Is Found Deserted (1590)
Located off what is now the North Carolina coast, Roanoke Island was the site of the first English settlement in North America. Its original colonists, sent by Walter Raleigh, arrived in 1585 but stayed only a year. A second group led by John White arrived in 1587. Shortly thereafter, White returned to England for supplies. When he finally returned to the island, he found that all of the colonists had vanished. Their fate is still unknown.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 19, 2024, 08:31:13 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
American Outlaw John Wesley Hardin Shot Dead (1895)
Hardin was an American desperado who claimed to have killed 42 men, one of them allegedly for snoring. He became a gambler and a gunman very early in life, but his friends and gunfighting skills helped him evade the authorities until 1877, when he was sentenced to 25 years for killing a sheriff. He studied law in prison and was released after serving 16 years. Pardoned in 1894, he passed the bar exam and began to practice law, but a local constable shot him to death a year later
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 20, 2024, 08:43:37 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
The Big Burn (1910)
The Great Fire of 1910 was a wildfire that burned approximately three million acres (12,000 sq km) in Washington, Idaho, and Montana. Spurred by hurricane-force winds, it destroyed parts of several national forests. Since known as the Big Burn, the firestorm burned over two days and killed more than 80 people, including 78 firefighters. It is believed to be the largest, although not the deadliest, fire in US history.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 21, 2024, 07:48:55 AM
Back in the day, circa 1820, the Supreme Court had six members, and the decisions were nearly always 6-0.

History of the Court: The Marshall Court, 1801-1835 | Supreme Court Historical Society (supremecourthistory.org) (https://supremecourthistory.org/history-of-the-courts/the-marshall-court-1801-1835/)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 21, 2024, 07:51:01 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Mona Lisa Stolen by a Louvre Employee (1911)
In 1911, Leonardo da Vinci's Mona Lisa disappeared from the Louvre and was believed to be lost forever. Two years later, former Louvre employee Vincenzo Peruggia was caught trying to sell the masterpiece to a gallery owner in his native Italy. It turned out that Peruggia had stolen the painting by hiding in a closet, waiting until the museum had closed, taking it down, and simply walking out with it hidden under his coat.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 21, 2024, 04:24:29 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Guhu8wp.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 22, 2024, 08:34:00 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Battle of Bosworth Field (1485)
The Battle of Bosworth Field was the penultimate battle of the Wars of the Roses in which Henry Tudor defeated the royal forces of Richard III, the last king of the House of York. Richard was killed in battle, and Henry advanced to London and was crowned as Henry VII. In 1486, Henry married Edward IV's daughter, Elizabeth, thus uniting the houses of York and Lancaster, ending the Wars of the Roses and founding the Tudor royal dynasty.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 22, 2024, 01:53:56 PM
The first ever nuclear capable bomber.
It wasn't designed to be nuclear capable from the start. Because at the time it was designed, the nuclear bomb itself didn't exist.
The Boeing B-29 Superfortress was chosen to carry and deploy the first nuclear weapon simply because it was the only aircraft with the payload and range to carry the thing. It was a B-29 Superfortress named Enola Gay by it's pilot after his mother, that conducted the first ever nuclear attack on Hiroshima Japan in 1945.
The standard B-29 Superfortress as built isn't capable of carrying nuclear weapons. The aircraft required extensive modifications to it's bomb bay mechanisms and other ancillary equipment to be nuclear capable. This modification program was called Project Silverplate. Only a handful of B-29's, aside from the initial 2 that performed the atomic bombing of Japan, were modified to Silverplate standards. Oddly enough, later American bombers like the Boeing B-50 Superfortress, which is an improved B-29, and the Convair B-36 Peacemaker, also had the Silverplate modifications done on a piecemeal basis which meant that not every one of them was actually nuclear weapons capable.
These days, any American military aircraft intended to be nuclear capable, had been designed to be so from the start, and have the required equipment installed from the production line.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 22, 2024, 05:13:07 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/nn7aIwB.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 23, 2024, 07:55:22 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/MCqPjbS.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 23, 2024, 01:13:17 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/eLzAw0I.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 23, 2024, 05:36:43 PM
I saw a meme about who is tied with Deon Sanders for INTs at FSU career, it was surprising.

To me.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 23, 2024, 05:38:21 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/qBi3st0.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 24, 2024, 07:39:47 AM
410 Rome overrun by Visigoths under Alaric I for the first time in nearly 800 years, seen as the fall of the Western Roman Empire

1814 British forces capture Washington, D.C. during the War of 1812 and destroy many landmarks

1877 American outlaw John Wesley Hardin, wanted for murder, is arrested by Texas Rangers on a train in Pensacola, Florida

1919 Having pitched into the 9th inning Cleveland's Ray Caldwell is flattened by a bolt of lightning; goes on to record final out for Indians' 2-1 win over Philadelphia A's (talk about playing thru the pain)

1940 Red Sox left fielder Ted Williams pitches the last 2 innings in a 12-1 loss to Detroit Tigers, Williams allows 3 hits & 1 run



2008 Summer Olympics in Beijing becomes the most watched event on TV ever - nearly 5 billion, 70% of world's population

1945 MLB Cleveland Indians ace Bob Feller returns from serving in the US Navy and strikes out 12

1983 Cincinnati Red Pete Rose ends consecutive games played streak at 745

1989 Pete Rose is suspended from baseball for life for gambling


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2024, 08:44:27 AM
From 1930:

(https://i.imgur.com/zWzbq58.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2024, 10:39:23 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/XYU3DLB.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 25, 2024, 09:27:22 AM
This date in 1693 is traditionally ascribed to Dom Pérignon's invention of champagne. It is not clear whether he actually invented champagne; however, he has been credited as an innovator who developed the techniques used to perfect sparkling wine.
Dom Pérignon champagne has appeared in several James Bond movies and one Ian Fleming novel. The literary James Bond drinks Dom Pérignon in the novel "Moonraker," when he has two bottles of the Dom Pérignon '46, suggested to Bond by the wine-waiter at Blades during the dinner with M.
Dom Pérignon champagnes used in the movies:
"Dr. No" (1962): Dom Pérignon '55 (Dr No “That’s a Dom Pérignon ’55, it would be a pity to break it.” Bond answers he prefers the '53).
"Goldfinger" (1964, below): Bond and Jill Masterson drink a bottle of Dom Pérignon '53 while Goldfinger loses a game of gin. When Bond wants to get another bottle from the refrigerator, he says, "My dear girl, there are some things that just aren't done, such as drinking Dom Perignon '53 above the temperature of 38 degrees Fahrenheit. That's as bad as listening to the Beatles without earmuffs!"
"Thunderball" (1965): Bond orders Beluga Caviar and Dom Pérignon '55 for him and Domino at Café Martinique, Nassau, after beating Emilio Largo at baccarat in the casino.
"You Only Live Twice" (1967): Bond, pretending to be Mr. Fisher, a salesman, in Tokyo initially declines an offer of the champagne by saying, “No thanks. It’s too early in the morning for me.” “Dom Perignon ‘59, Mr. Fisher," he is told.. "You sure you won’t change your mind?" "Well," Bond relents, "if you insist."
"On Her Majesty's Secret Service" (1969): Bond orders a Dom Pérignon '57 in the Casino restaurant for Tracy and himself and has it brought to room 423 with caviar for two. In Blofeld's lair at Piz Gloria, Tracy and Blofeld drink Dom Pérignon and Tracy uses two bottles to fight off her attackers.
"Live And Let Die" (1973): Bond and Rosie Carver share a bottle of Dom Pérignon during their picnic, just before she gets killed.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 25, 2024, 01:12:22 PM
This Day in History: August 25

The Council of Nicaea(325)—the first ecumenical council of the Christian church, called by the emperor Constantine I—brought to an end the controversy of Arianism, concluding that God the Father was of equal status with God the Son.

Ivan the Terrible(1530), grand prince of Moscow and first tsar of Russia, was born.

1718 Hundreds of French colonists arrive in Louisiana and found New Orleans



1819 Allan Pinkerton, Scottish-American barrel maker, private detective (co-founder of Pinkerton Agency), abolitionist, and spy, born in Gorbels, Glasgow, Scotland

1845 Ludwig II, Mad king of Bavaria (1864-86), born in Nymphenburg Palace, Munich, Germany



1896 Outlaw Bill Doolin is killed

1921 Yankee pitcher Harry Harper hits 3 batters in an inning tying record

1930 Sean Connery British actor was born

1939 “The Wizard of Oz” opens in U.S. theaters

1944 Paris liberated, some two months after the Allied invasion of Normandy, Paris was liberated from German occupiers as the Free French 2nd Armoured Division under General Jacques-Philippe Leclerc entered the city.

1951 Cleveland Indians win 16th straight home game

1967 Minnesota Twin Dean Chance 2nd no-hitter of the month beats Cleveland, 2-1(must have been a couple of walks and error that got the 1 run)

1976 Yanks beat Twins 5-4 in 19 innings (HA!)

1986 A's Mark McGwire hits his 1st major league home run

1996 96th US Golf Amateur Championship won by Tiger Woods

2012 U.S. astronaut Neil Armstrong—who was the first person to set foot on the Moon, an event he described as “one small step for [a] man, one giant leap for mankind”—died at age 82.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2024, 07:18:41 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/kV9D3l9.png)

1962, around here somewhere.  I was musing about how few "independent" small restaurants exist today in the US.  The "chain model" obviously is very successful, I imagine they get good rates on food from SYSCO et al.  And they have a "System" for each chain to emulate.  But an indie looks like it could be more fun.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 26, 2024, 08:19:02 AM
1346 Battle of Crécy: Edward III's English longbows defeat Philip VI's army south of Calais in northern France, cannons are used for the first time in battle

1682 English astronomer Edmond Halley first observes the comet named after him

1691 Charles Perrault's poem "The Marquise of Salusses or the Patience of Griselidis" read aloud at the French Academy, later attached to his "Tales of Mother Goose" (1697)

1748 First Lutheran denomination in North America, the Pennsylvania Ministerium, is founded in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

1791 John Fitch granted US patent for his working steamboat

1843 American inventor Charles Thurber patents a typewriter

1863 Battle of Rocky Gap, West Virginia (White Sulphur Springs): Colonel George S. Patton's Confederate forces defeat Union brigade advance

1895 Electric generator at Niagara Falls produces first power

1898 - Cleveland plays its final home game of the season and only the fourth at League Park since July ninth. With 83 of its final 87 games on the road, the Spiders have earned nicknames such as the Nomads, Exiles, Misfits and Wanderers

1916 Philadelphia Athletic's Bullet Joe Bush no-hits Cleveland, 5-0 :(

1939 - Ebbets Field is the site of the first telecast of a major league baseball game. The Reds play the Dodgers in a doubleheader. Red Barber handles the broadcasts over W2XBS. The Dodgers take the first game 6-2, and the Reds take the second 5-1.

1942 Japanese troops land on Milne Bay, New Guinea

1942 Soviet counter offensive begins in Moscow

1944 US 12nd Army Corps crosses river Seine East of Paris

1945 Japanese diplomats board USS Missouri to receive instructions on Japan's surrender at the end of WWII

1968 "Hey Jude" single released by the Beatles in US (Billboard Song of the Year 1968, Billboard 10th biggest song of all time 2013)

1972 - Leo Durocher, formerly of the Cubs, replaces Harry Walker as manager of the Astros. It is only the second time someone has managed two National League teams in the same season. The first was in 1948, when Durocher piloted the Dodgers and the Giants.



1973 University of Texas (Arlington) is first accredited school to offer belly dancing

1977 Ian Dury releases the single "Sex & Drugs & Rock & Roll"

1985 French government denies knowledge of bombing of the Greenpeace flagship the Rainbow Warrior in Auckland New Zealand

1990 - In his first game after six weeks on the disabled list, Bo Jackson homers in his first at-bat to tie a major league record with four consecutive homers.

1992 - In the first matchup of National League knuckleballers in ten years, Pittsburgh's Tim Wakefield outduels Tom Candiotti of the Dodgers. The last time knuckleballs floated to batters on both teams came when Phil and Joe Niekro squared off in 1982

2023 Longest alligator ever recorded in Mississippi at 14ft, 3in, captured in Sunflower River, weighing 802.5 pounds

2023 Zimbabwe's President Emmerson Mnangagwa "The Crocodile" elected to a second term amid claims of vote-rigging
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 26, 2024, 08:24:26 AM
The Soviet counteroffensive was enabled, in part, but the Sorge spy ring they had in Japan.  The two countries had a conflict in the late 1930s, and the Soviets feared an attack on that front.  Sorge let them know it was not being planned.  So, the Russians could move some very good troops from Asia to Moscow, troops equipped for cold weather.  The Germans largely were not.  The Germans got quite the scare, but dug in under Hitler's orders, and weathered the storm, mostly.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 27, 2024, 11:55:16 AM
1874 Carl Bosch, German chemist (BASF, Nobel 1931), born in Cologne, German Empire (d. 1940)

1776 British defeat Americans in Battle of Long Island


1877 Charles Rolls, British aviator and auto manufacturer who co-founded Rolls Royce, born in Berkeley Square, London

1782 Battle of the Combahee River near Beaufort, South Carolina, American abolitionist John Laurens is killed leading the charge

1798 Battle of Castlebar, Ireland: French army and Irish rebels rout a larger the British force

1813 Battle of Dresden; Napoleon defeats Austrians

1859 First successful oil well drilled near Titusville, Pennsylvania, by Edwin Drake

1883 Krakatoa volcano, located west of Java in Indonesia, erupts with a force of 200 megatons of TNT, killing approximately 40,000 people

1896 Britain defeats Zanzibar in a 38-minute war (9:02 AM-9:40 AM). Shortest recorded war in history.

1908 Lyndon B. Johnson 36th US President (Democrat: 1963-69), born in Stonewall, Texas

1913 Swedish engineer Gideon Sundback of Hoboken applies to patent all-purpose zipper

1917 Cleveland Indians set club record by stealing eight bases in a game

1918 Spanish flu arrives in Boston, beginning of the second wave and deadliest wave in the US

1921 J.E. Clair of Acme Packing Co. of Green Bay is granted an NFL franchise

Ira Levin 1929 - American author (Rosemary Baby, Boys From Brazil, This Perfect Day), born in New York City

1939 Erich Warsitz in a Heinkel He-178 makes the 1st manned jet-propelled flight, with a turbo engine designed by Hans von Ohain

1942 Cuba declares war on Germany, Japan, and Italy

1938 New York Yankees pitcher Monte Pearson no-hits Cleveland Indians, 13-0; Joe DiMaggio hits 3 triples

1948 102°F highest temperature ever recorded in Cleveland in August

1955 "Guinness Book of World Records" is first published

1955 Sandy Koufax fans 14 Reds, both teams combine for record 23 strikeouts

1966 Oakland pitcher Paul Lindblad begins a 385-game consecutive errorless streak

1958 Sergei Krikalev, Russian cosmonaut, stranded in space for 311 days when the Soviet Union fell, born in Leningrad, Soviet Union

1977 Toby Harrah and Bump Wills hit back-to-back inside-the-park-homers off Yankee Ken Clay at Yankee Stadium, Rangers won 8-2

1978 MLB Cincinnati Reds Joe Morgan is 1st to hit 200 HRs & have 500 stolen bases

1982 Rickey Henderson steals 119th base of season breaks Lou Brock's mark

1995 95th US Golf Amateur Championship won by Tiger Woods

2008 US Senator Barack Obama becomes the first African-American to be nominated by a major political party for President of the United States, by the Democratic Party
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on August 27, 2024, 01:02:44 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
American Outlaw John Wesley Hardin Shot Dead (1895)
Hardin was an American desperado who claimed to have killed 42 men, one of them allegedly for snoring. He became a gambler and a gunman very early in life, but his friends and gunfighting skills helped him evade the authorities until 1877, when he was sentenced to 25 years for killing a sheriff. He studied law in prison and was released after serving 16 years. Pardoned in 1894, he passed the bar exam and began to practice law, but a local constable shot him to death a year later
My wife claims Hardin as distant Kin.  Without any evidence, of course.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 27, 2024, 01:05:23 PM

Well just keep the shootin' irons locked up in case
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on August 27, 2024, 01:14:44 PM
The Soviet counteroffensive was enabled, in part, but the Sorge spy ring they had in Japan.  The two countries had a conflict in the late 1930s, and the Soviets feared an attack on that front.  Sorge let them know it was not being planned.  So, the Russians could move some very good troops from Asia to Moscow, troops equipped for cold weather.  The Germans largely were not.  The Germans got quite the scare, but dug in under Hitler's orders, and weathered the storm, mostly.
It bewilders me to this day that the Germans were not "equipped for the cold".  Looking at any map, Germany is about in line with Canada or the very northern US.  Hell, it looks like it's mid-Canada to me.  WTF were they equipped for, if not winter?  
I mean, I get it that Russia is even further North, but it just boggles my mind.  

(https://i.imgur.com/XcW9j7D.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on August 27, 2024, 01:20:02 PM
Size and latitude of Germany:

(https://i.imgur.com/3TKKnTY.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on August 27, 2024, 01:30:06 PM
The Jet Stream and the Gulf Stream keep European countries warmer than their latitude-equivalent counterparts along the east side of the North American continent.

That said, Germany does get cold in the winter and they probably should have known that Russia gets even colder...

I'd guess it's the result of a logistical issue.  The army's supply chain wasn't capable of supporting the German Leadership's desired plan of execution, and the Leaders were either not told by their subordinates for fear of reprisal, or they ignored whatever their logistics planning team told them.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 27, 2024, 03:30:58 PM
1973 University of Texas (Arlington) is first accredited school to offer belly dancing
I'll ask my brother if it's still offered
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2024, 03:40:38 PM
The Wehrmacht was supposed to win the war before winter hit, so there had been no provisions made for winter gear.  It's not an easy thing to come up with coats and boots for millions of troops some thousand miles away from your production facilities.  You need lead time.  By August, it appeared to many that the Soviet Union was done for, Guderian had pivoted from his offensive east t Moscow to turn south and cut off a major Russian army around Kiev.  Then he pivoted back and made an effort to take Moscow which fell a bit short, and then they were counterattacked

Often, they had to build fires under their vehicles to keep the oil from solidifying.  Aside from coats, the needed winter oil which was not available.  The Russian railroads were a different gauge so that had to be fixed, and then the Ukrainians which had hailed them as savoirs turned against the Germans.  So, you had partisan attacks springing up.

Hitler was largely surrounded by sycophants, any who weren't usually didn't last long.  They told him what he wanted to hear.  The idea of a russian counteroffensive was viewed as impossible.  This really bit them the next year in Stalingrad.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 27, 2024, 03:43:30 PM
It bewilders me to this day that the Germans were not "equipped for the cold".  
I think they were in a gawl darned hurry
didn't have time to pack the long underwear and wool socks
also a little over confident and thought they'd over run 'em before the real cold stuff hit
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 27, 2024, 03:46:54 PM
The Germans overran France basically in two weeks, if you don't count two more weeks to "tidy up the remainder".  Poland took longer.  They were full of themselves at that point.  France had a very strong army, on paper, larger than the German army even without the British component.

It would be as if say Nebraska came out and demolished their first five opponents and then lost to Appy State in a shocker.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 27, 2024, 04:50:11 PM
that was Michigan!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on August 27, 2024, 04:51:35 PM
that was Michigan!

Just last year the ags lost to them too. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 27, 2024, 04:56:17 PM
nice of you to bring that up
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on August 27, 2024, 04:57:01 PM
nice of you to bring that up
O:-)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2024, 08:24:11 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Caleb Davis Bradham Begins Selling "Pepsi-Cola" (1898)
Bradham was a pharmacist who invented a soft drink made with kola nut extract, vanilla, and "rare oils." He believed his drink aided digestion and renamed it "Pepsi-Cola" after the kola nut and pepsin, an enzyme that aids in digestion. In 1902, he incorporated the Pepsi-Cola Co, and, in 1931, the trademark and assets were bought by Charles Guth, who improved the formula and marketed a 12-ounce bottle for five cents with huge success.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on August 28, 2024, 09:08:36 AM
For some reason, I love old vintage bottles and branding in general.  Nostalgia I guess. 

(https://i.imgur.com/Vfvu4UB.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2024, 09:14:39 AM
For some reason, I love old vintage bottles and branding in general.  Nostalgia I guess.

You might enjoy the "World of Coke" museum here, it's not bad really, I've been through probably four times (showing it to visitors).

They serve a bunch of beverages in one area we never heard of in foreign lands, some of which are odd, all made by "Coke".
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on August 28, 2024, 09:23:35 AM
You might enjoy the "World of Coke" museum here, it's not bad really, I've been through probably four times (showing it to visitors).

They serve a bunch of beverages in one area we never heard of in foreign lands, some of which are odd, all made by "Coke".
I probably would.  I've been to the Dr. Pepper Museum in Waco. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2024, 09:26:12 AM
of course you have

probably a 4th grade field trip
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on August 28, 2024, 09:27:28 AM
Royal Crown Cola was always my favorite when I was a kid.  An RC Float with mom's homemade vanilla ice cream was something really really special.

(https://i.imgur.com/iWmZ674.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 28, 2024, 11:15:04 AM
You might enjoy the "World of Coke" museum here, it's not bad really, I've been through probably four times (showing it to visitors).

They serve a bunch of beverages in one area we never heard of in foreign lands, some of which are odd, all made by "Coke".
Yeah, I went once (maybe twice with visitors) in the short 2 years I lived there. 

Cool place to see at least once. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 28, 2024, 01:47:39 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/CbL5EZi.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: LetsGoPeay on August 28, 2024, 03:44:21 PM
Tab..... my mom used to drink that by the gallon. It was god awful. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 28, 2024, 03:46:16 PM
My ex's standard bar drink was Tab and Jack D.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2024, 03:48:17 PM
god awful is an apt description
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2024, 03:51:04 PM
it would need  a LOT of Jack D

just call it a cloudy
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 28, 2024, 03:51:08 PM
My ex's standard bar drink was Tab and Jack D.
god awful is an apt description
well they were out of BUD Fat so...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2024, 03:51:46 PM
nubbz posts are disappearing :57:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2024, 03:52:17 PM
and then, they're BACK!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 28, 2024, 03:56:10 PM
Well i had to include the previous post and went one page over - didn't want to appear bugeater clueless
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2024, 03:59:54 PM
that wouldn't be weird
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on August 28, 2024, 04:15:35 PM
Just last year the ags lost to them too.
Bullshit.  

It was TWO years ago.  Get it straight ! 

Almost as embarrassing as losing to Kansas.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 28, 2024, 04:19:13 PM
Hey I thought only UM/tOSU slappies get to opine in such fashion
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2024, 04:22:25 PM
Bullshit. 

It was TWO years ago.  Get it straight !

Almost as embarrassing as losing to Kansas. 
almost.......
Billy C. sucked
his 2nd loss to the Jayhawks cost him his job and Bo took over
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 28, 2024, 04:22:45 PM
Hey I thought only UM/tOSU slappies get to opine in such fashion
nope

now my posts are disappearing
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 28, 2024, 05:33:10 PM
Gotta hit send - set the Jack down - but that's just like my opinion 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 29, 2024, 07:42:55 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

US Air Force Nuclear Weapons Incident (2007)
In 2007, six cruise missiles with nuclear warheads were mistakenly loaded onto a US Air Force bomber and transported from Minot Air Force Base in North Dakota to Barksdale Air Force Base in Louisiana without the knowledge the flight crew. A military investigation of the incident found that a number of procedures for handling nuclear weapons had been carried out improperly by numerous service members. Disciplinary actions were taken against many officers
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2024, 09:49:11 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/ogqcIYC.png)

# **Hocking Canal photograph Dated 1876 in Lancaster, Ohio.**
# **A restored 1866 map of Lancaster shows how the canal wound it's way through the city and traces the modern day Memorial Drive route.**
#
# **The Hocking Canal was abandoned in 1894. In the mid-1930s, the canal bed was filled in and paved over to create U.S. 33 also known as Memorial Drive within the city limits. Now it is just referred to as Memorial Drive or Old 33 as U.S. 33 has now bypassed the downtown corridor. The canal was built between 1829 and 1843. It was 56 miles long and connected to the Ohio and Erie Canal at Carroll, Ohio. The canal was critical for trade, hauling goods like coal and lumber throughout the Hocking River valley. The last canal boat ran in 1889, carrying a load of coal from Logan to Nelsonville. Canals became obsolete with the emergence of railroads. The last canal boat passed through Carroll in 1897.**


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 29, 2024, 09:55:41 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/OrgmQIc.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 29, 2024, 11:12:03 AM
29 John the Baptist, beheaded

1809 Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr., American physician and author (Old Ironsides), born in Cambridge, Massachusetts

1842 United Kingdom and China sign the Treaty of Nanking, ending the First Opium War

1844 1st white-Indian lacrosse game in Montreal, Indians win

1854 Self-governing windmill patented by American inventor Daniel Halladay


1862 Second Battle of Bull Run begins in Manassas, Virginia, leads to a Confederate victory in the US Civil War

1876 Charles F. Kettering, American inventor (auto self-starter), born in Loudenville, Ohio
1877 American religious leader (Latter-day Saints), dies of peritonitis at 76
1896 Chop suey is supposedly invented in NYC by the chef of visiting Chinese diplomat Li Hongzhang

1898 The Goodyear tire company founded

1925 After a night on the town, Babe Ruth shows up late for batting practice Miller Huggins suspends Ruth & slaps a $5,000 fine on him

1944 15,000 American troops liberating Paris march down Champs Elysees

1949 Soviet Union secretly performs its first successful nuclear weapons test, at the Semipalatinsk Test Site in northeast Kazakhstan

1977 MLB St Louis Cardinals Lou Brock eclipses Ty Cobb's 49-year-old career stolen bases record at 893 as Padres win 4-3

1982 Kansas City Royal George Brett gets his 1,500th hit

1985 NY Yank Don Baylor is hit by a pitch for a record 190th time

1987 Houston Astro MLB player Nolan Ryan passes the 200-strikeout barrier for record 11th time

2004 German Ferrari driver Michael Schumacher clinches his 5th straight F1 World Drivers Championship with a 2nd place in the Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Circuit de Spa-Francorchamps

2005 Hurricane Katrina makes its second and third landfall as a Category 3 hurricane, devastating much of the Gulf Coast from Louisiana to the Florida Panhandle, killing more than 1,836 people and causing over $115 billion in damage

2012 Banana Spider venom is found to be effective in relieving erectile dysfunction (just who thought of trying that)

2015 Wayne Dyer, American psychologist and author (Your Erroneous Zones; Universe Within You), dies at 75
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on August 29, 2024, 11:16:20 AM
2012 Banana Spider venom is found to be effective in relieving erectile dysfunction (just who thought of trying that)
a desperate SOB
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on August 29, 2024, 11:20:26 AM
Don't bother trying it  takes too much time away from the course,maybe after November
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on August 30, 2024, 01:18:28 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/nJ2Ogf7.jpeg)

1932.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 30, 2024, 01:57:41 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/95PVJlA.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 01, 2024, 09:27:37 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Germany Invades Poland (1939)
After staging Polish attacks on German forces to create the appearance of Polish aggression, Germany invaded Poland, beginning WWII. Britain and France declared war on Germany two days later, and all the members of the Commonwealth of Nations, with the exception of Ireland, rapidly followed suit. The German blitzkrieg crushed the Polish defenses. Within a month all of Poland was occupied by German forces
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 01, 2024, 12:21:47 PM
Within a month all of Poland was occupied by German forces

This is inaccurate of course, not that it particularly matters.  Poland put up more of a fight than did France.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on September 01, 2024, 01:47:13 PM
1752 Pennsylvania's new State House bell (known today as the Liberty Bell) arrives in Philadelphia from Whitechapel Foundry in London, England
1799 Bank of Manhattan Company opens in NYC (forerunner to Chase Manhattan)
1861 Grant assumes command of Federal forces at Cape Girardeau MI
1864 Skirmish at Hood evacuated confederates from Atlanta GA
1866 "Gentleman Jim" Corbett boxer born in San Francisco
1894 A wildfire destroys the town of Hinckley, Minnesota, killing 438 people
1905 Hillerich & Bradsby sign a contract with Honus Wagner to produce the first autographed model bat.
1914 The last passenger pigeon, a female named Martha, dies in captivity in the Cincinnati Zoo in Ohio
1918 US troops land in Vladivostok, Siberia, stay until 1920
1923 A magnitude 7.9 earthquake strikes Tokyo and Yokohama in Japan, killing 142,000 people
1923 Rocky Marciano born in Brockton,Mass.
1931 - Lou Gehrig hits his third grand slam in four days.
1939 Adolf Hitler orders extermination of mentally ill through the "Aktion T4 Euthanasia Program," arguing that wartime "was the best time for the elimination of the incurably ill"
1942 US Federal judge upholds detention of Japanese-Americans
1953 101°F highest temperature ever recorded in Cleveland in Sept
1974 The SR-71 Blackbird sets (and holds) the record for flying from New York to London: 1 hour 54 minutes and 56.4 seconds.
1975 - Tom Seaver struck out Manny Sanguillen in the seventh inning to become the first to strike out at least two-hundred batters in eight consecutive seasons.
1983 Korean Boeing 747, flight 007, strays into Siberia & is shot down by a Soviet fighters, killing all 269 on board including US congressman Larry McDonald
1989 - Eight days after banning Pete Rose from baseball for life, Commissioner Bart Giamatti dies suddenly of a heart attack at the age of 51.
1995 State of New York reinstates the death penalty
1995 - Tigers manager Sparky Anderson manages his four-thousandth Major League game, but the Indians are 14-4 winners.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 02, 2024, 07:52:11 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

CBS Evening News Expands to Half Hour (1963)
The CBS Evening News is the chief nightly news program of the American television network CBS. The network has broadcast the program since 1948, when it was called The CBS-TV News. Legendary journalist Walter Cronkite took over as the program's anchor in 1962, and the following year, the show was expanded from 15 minutes to 30 minutes, becoming network television's first half-hour nightly news program. Cronkite retired in 1981
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on September 02, 2024, 09:55:46 AM


1798 First bank robbery in the US: Bank of Pennsylvania robbed of $162,821 at Carpenter's Hall, Philadelphia

1864 Union General William T. Sherman captures and occupies Atlanta, Georgia, ending the Atlanta Campaign in the US Civil War 

1901 Theodore Roosevelt advises "Speak softly and carry a big stick" in an address to the Minnesota State Fair, entitled "National Duties"

1935 Labor Day hurricane makes landfall in Florida, killing 423 people, the strongest and most intense hurricane ever to make landfall in the United States

1942 German troops enter Stalingrad

1944 Future US President George H. W. Bush bails from a burning plane during a mission in the Pacific

1945 V-J Day, formal surrender of Japan signed aboard the USS Missouri, marks the end of World War II

1948 Christa McAuliffe, American teacher who died in Challenger space shuttle disaster, born in Boston, Massachusetts (d. 1986)


1953 Ahmad Shah Massoud Afghan political and military leader who fought the Soviet Union and led the Northern Alliance against the Taliban, born in Bazarak, Panjshir, Afghanistan (d. 2001)


1958 Minn announces $9 million bond issue to improve Metropolitan Stadium

1965 - Ernie Banks hit his 400th home run off Curt Simmons as the Chicago Cubs beat the St. Louis Cardinals, 5-3, at Wrigley Field

1972 - Milt Pappas of the Chicago Cubs retired 26 San Diego Padres batters in a row before walking pinch-hitter Larry Stahl on a 3-2 pitch. Pappas then retired Garry Jestadt to finish his 8-0 no-hitter

1990 - Dave Stieb, who had lost three no-hit bids with one out to go in the previous two seasons, finally pitched one as the Toronto Blue Jays beat Cleveland, 3-0. It was the record ninth no-hitter of the season

1992 - Terry Mulholland of the Phillies becomes the new pickoff king. His 14 pickoffs are the most by any pitcher since the stat became official in 1989.

1993 - The expansion Colorado Rockies drew 47,699 fans for their 6-1 loss to Montreal to set a single-season National League attendance record with a 62-game total of 3,617,863. Los Angeles set the previous record of 3,608,881 in 1982. Toronto set the Major League record of 4,028,318 in 1992.

1995 - Tim Raines is out stealing in a 10-4 win over the Blue Jays to snap the White Sox outfielder's American League record streak of 40 consecutive stolen bases.

1996 - Mike Greenwell set a Major League record by driving in all nine Boston runs, the final one on a 10th-inning single to give the Red Sox a 9-8 victory over Seattle.



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on September 03, 2024, 09:23:24 AM
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3mIu10SINlQ?feature=share

Dive into the eerie tale of David Lang, who mysteriously vanished in front of his family and neighbors on September 23, 1880, near Gallatin, Tennessee. Despite extensive searches, Lang was never found.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 04, 2024, 08:02:37 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
George Eastman Receives a Patent for His Kodak Camera (1888)
Eastman was an American industrialist, inventor, and philanthropist. Interested in photographic processes from an early age, he invented roll film in 1884 and perfected a camera designed to use it, called the Kodak camera. In 1892, he established the Eastman Kodak Company and began to mass produce his inventions, transforming photography from an expensive hobby of the few to a relatively inexpensive, popular pastime.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on September 04, 2024, 11:42:10 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
George Eastman Receives a Patent for His Kodak Camera (1888)
Eastman was an American industrialist, inventor, and philanthropist. Interested in photographic processes from an early age, he invented roll film in 1884 and perfected a camera designed to use it, called the Kodak camera. In 1892, he established the Eastman Kodak Company and began to mass produce his inventions, transforming photography from an expensive hobby of the few to a relatively inexpensive, popular pastime.
The weird history part is that Eastman advocated for a 13 month calendar, with an extra month between June and July ( the month of Sol).  Every month has exactly 28 days, with each month starting on Sunday, and ending on Saturday.  There are leap years, and one 
Eastman Kodak actually used this calendar until 1989 !  

(https://i.imgur.com/O3mOcOu.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 05, 2024, 07:21:53 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Sam Houston Elected First President of Texas (1836)
A teenage runaway who spent three years living with Cherokee Indians, Houston went on to serve in the War of 1812 and was elected to the House of Representatives in 1823. Attracted to the struggle for Texan independence, he led the army of the provisional government of Texas to victory against the Mexicans in 1836 and served as the newly independent Republic of Texas's first president. He helped Texas win statehood in 1845 and became governor in 1859, but he was deposed in 1861
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 07, 2024, 08:37:41 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First Miss America Pageant Held in Atlantic City, New Jersey (1921)
The Miss America Pageant, now an American institution, began in 1921 as an attempt by Atlantic City businessmen to keep tourists in town after Labor Day. The weeklong event features the 50 state pageant winners and includes evening gown, swimsuit, and talent competitions. Its winner receives a $50,000 scholarship and spends the next year traveling and making lucrative personal appearances.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 07, 2024, 10:36:49 AM
Austin, Texas 1978:

(https://i.imgur.com/txMOXQk.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 07, 2024, 10:51:39 AM
looks like Atlanta
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 07, 2024, 11:18:47 AM
looks like Atlanta
@utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15)

 says it's Austin.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 08, 2024, 11:23:17 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/mtlLMGm.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on September 08, 2024, 11:52:27 AM
@utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15)

 says it's Austin.
No an airport in Brazil says it's Austin.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 08, 2024, 06:48:50 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

American Pledge of Allegiance First Published (1892)
The Pledge of Allegiance is an oath of loyalty to the United States. It first appeared in the September 8, 1892, issue of The Youth's Companion, and its authorship has been ascribed to magazine staff member Francis Bellamy. Officially recognized by the government in 1942, the pledge became compulsory in some public schools, but the following year the Supreme Court ruled that recitation could not be required of any individual.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 09, 2024, 06:54:21 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/rlvLR1F.jpeg)

From ca. 1929.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Temp430 on September 09, 2024, 07:31:42 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/rlvLR1F.jpeg)

From ca. 1929.
Where are the hedges?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 09, 2024, 07:55:53 AM
Lukacs: Tracing the history of the hedges at Georgia's Sanford Stadium on the 80th anniversary of their planting - ESPN (https://www.espn.com/college-football/news/story?id=4552978)

Not long after, when university president Steadman V. Sanford's dream of having the "best football stadium in Dixie" was slowly becoming steel and concrete reality, Martin thought rose hedges could not only beautify the new structure but also distinguish it from the other stadiums being constructed in the pre-stock market crash building boom taking place on campuses across the country. But there was a problem.
"University horticulturists said that roses would not thrive here in Athens, Georgia," Magill says.
So it was decided that Georgia's new gridiron would instead be bound by privet Ligustrum. It was a last-minute decision. The hedges were trucked in from Atlanta, and reportedly plugged into the red Georgia earth just hours before the game by workers wielding shovels and flashlights.
The stadium dedication was no doubt a stressful occasion for Martin, the game's primary promoter. More than 30,000 fans, the largest crowd to witness a southern college football game, crammed the stadium. Governors from all nine southern states also were in attendance.
"It was the biggest athletic event ever held in the South at the time," Magill says.


"It's a royal hedge to the Georgia people, but anywhere else, it's a weed," Dooley says.

Dooley is not spreading a nasty rumor started by Florida or Georgia Tech fans. He speaks the truth: Privet Ligustrum is indeed a weed, and an invasive one at that. Introduced in the United States in the early 1800s, the semi-evergreen, deciduous shrubs are not only poisonous to horses and mildly toxic to humans, but also capable of overrunning a habitat and eliminating native species.



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 09, 2024, 08:06:29 AM
Privet Shrubs | Pros & Cons of Privets | Buy Privets (thetreecenter.com) (https://www.thetreecenter.com/privet-good-bad-beautiful/?srsltid=AfmBOorfE6KGEsvKLvNzFmJedG-GmlRsE49BpTr4GT1W3ddAYUeopv0Q)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 09, 2024, 08:32:45 AM
I've got a roe of privets on the east side of my house

they smell nice when blooming - cut them down and they grow right back
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 09, 2024, 08:34:34 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Elvis Presley Appears on The Ed Sullivan Show (1956)
Presley was one of the 20th century's most popular American singers. His first national television appearance was in 1955 on Jackie Gleason's Stage Show, but it was his 1956 appearance on The Ed Sullivan Show that made him a national sensation. His pelvic gyrations caused a scandal but earned him thousands of adoring, often female, fans. That same year he released his first million-selling single, "Heartbreak Hotel," and starred in the first of his 33 movies
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 09, 2024, 01:48:40 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/cNXNCjJ.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 10, 2024, 08:14:19 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Battle of Pinkie Cleugh (1547)
The Battle of Pinkie Cleugh was part of the War of Rough Wooing, the ruthless war launched by Henry VIII against Scotland to force a marriage between Mary Queen of Scots and his son, the future Edward VI. The first "modern" battle to be fought in the British Isles and the last pitched battle between the English and Scottish royal armies, it resulted in a catastrophic defeat for the Scots, who came to call it Black Saturday.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 10, 2024, 08:52:23 AM
In his 1976 book The Twelfth Planet, Russian-American author Zecharia Sitchin claimed that the Anunnaki were actually a race of extraterrestrial beings from the undiscovered planet Nibiru, who came to Earth around 500,000 years ago in order to mine gold.
According to Sitchin, the Anunnaki genetically engineered homo erectus to create modern humans to work as their slaves. Sitchin claimed that the Anunnaki were forced to leave Earth when Antarctic glaciers melted, causing the Flood of Noah, which also destroyed the Anunnaki’s bases on Earth. These had to be rebuilt and the Nephilim, needing more humans to help in this massive effort, taught them agriculture.
Ronald H. Fritze writes that, according to Sitchin, “the Annunaki built the pyramids and all the other monumental structures from around the world that ancient astronaut theorists consider so impossible to build without highly advanced technologies.“Sitchin also claimed that the Anunnaki had left behind human-alien hybrids, some of whom may still be alive today, unaware of their alien ancestry. Sitchin expanded on this mythology in later works, including The Stairway to Heaven (1980) and The Wars of Gods and Men (1985). In The End of Days: Armageddon and the Prophecy of the Return (2007), Sitchin predicted that the Anunnaki would return to earth, possibly as soon as 2012, corresponding to the end of the Mesoamerican Long Count calendar.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 10, 2024, 09:18:59 AM
I somehow missed those books
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 10, 2024, 10:09:48 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/LEgTSNl.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on September 10, 2024, 10:14:17 AM
Even old New York, was once New Amsterdam.
Why did they change it?  I can't say...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 10, 2024, 10:15:26 AM
Tough to put it into English I suppose.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on September 10, 2024, 10:20:50 AM
People just liked it better that way...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 10, 2024, 11:50:06 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/5DuCDPT.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on September 10, 2024, 07:04:00 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/5DuCDPT.png)
Most people have no idea that the last B-52 ever built was built in the 1950’s and the exact same planes that flew over Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan are literally the same planes with upgrades to electronics and engines. But it’s the same planes built in the 50’s. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 11, 2024, 08:52:39 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
9/11 Terrorist Attacks (2001)
On September 11, 2001, 19 Al-Qaeda terrorists hijacked four commercial airplanes. They crashed two planes into the World Trade Center's Twin Towers in New York City and flew a third into the Pentagon building in Virginia. Passengers on the fourth flight attempted to retake control of the aircraft, but it crashed in a Pennsylvania field. The devastating terrorist attacks of 9/11 were responsible for 2,996 deaths and countless more injuries.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 11, 2024, 08:59:21 AM
A complete engine swap is starting to get underway now, their well into the ground testing phase, for B-52s.    And the swap will still include 8 engines in four pods with the same thrust as current engines, but with better fuel economy and reliability and lower costs.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 11, 2024, 09:00:31 AM
and people think we spend too much on the military, flying 75 year old planes
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on September 11, 2024, 09:03:16 AM
B-52's are really an amazing plane that doesn't get as much respect and attention as it deserves.  B1's, B2's, F/A airplanes get all the glory, but at the end of the day, when a real bomber is needed, they clear the skies from threats and call in the B-52's.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 11, 2024, 09:17:33 AM
I recall a Navy proposal to build a subsonic "missile carrier" to protect carriers instead of the F-14.  The plane would have carried a number of Phoenix missiles that engage at very long range, the same missiles an F-14 can carry, but more of them, cheaper.  The Navy preferred the dog fighter even though the Phoenix was meant to engage at "Beyond Visible Range", 100 miles or so, to knock down Soviet bombers before they got into their missile range of carriers.

I think it was a better concept but wouldn't have made cool movies.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 11, 2024, 09:31:12 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
9/11 Terrorist Attacks (2001)
On September 11, 2001, 19 Al-Qaeda terrorists hijacked four commercial airplanes. They crashed two planes into the World Trade Center's Twin Towers in New York City and flew a third into the Pentagon building in Virginia. Passengers on the fourth flight attempted to retake control of the aircraft, but it crashed in a was shot down over a Pennsylvania field. The devastating terrorist attacks of 9/11 were responsible for 2,996 deaths and countless more injuries.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on September 11, 2024, 10:29:56 PM
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/p5DfhG_DKSk?feature=share
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 13, 2024, 08:53:37 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Samuel "Uncle Sam" Wilson (1766)
Wilson was an American Revolutionary War veteran who owned a meatpacking plant in Troy, New York. He provided beef to the army during the War of 1812 in barrels stamped "US," indicating that they were US property. According to some sources, the soldiers began joking that the initials stood for "Uncle Sam," referring to Wilson, unwittingly inventing the character that would soon come into widespread use as a symbol of the US government.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 14, 2024, 08:34:58 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) Founded (1960)
OPEC is a multinational organization that was established in 1960 to coordinate the petroleum production and export policies of its original members, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and Venezuela. Other nations have since joined the organization. In 1973, OPEC began a series of oil price increases in retaliation for Western support of Israel in the Yom Kippur War, and its members' income greatly increased as a result.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 15, 2024, 08:22:21 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Steam Locomotive John Bull Operates for the First Time (1831)
The John Bull is a steam locomotive that ran on the Camden and Amboy Railroad, the first railroad built in New Jersey. Retired in 1866, the locomotive was acquired by the Smithsonian in 1885 and became the oldest operable steam locomotive in the world in 1981, when it was operated in commemoration of the 150th anniversary of its first use. Though its official name was Stevens, crews began calling it John Bull, and the name eventually stuck.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 16, 2024, 08:39:33 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Mayflower Sets Sail for New England (1620)
The Mayflower set sail from England to the New World with 102 passengers and about 25 crew members. After a two-month voyage marked by disease, the ship dropped anchor in Cape Cod Bay. After spending the winter selecting a suitable site for their new colony and drawing up an agreement for its temporary government by the will of the majority—the Mayflower Compact—the surviving passengers settled Plymouth.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on September 17, 2024, 07:55:10 AM
On this Date in 1944
British Field Marshal Bernard Law Montgomery launched his daring plan to bypass the Siegfried Line by crossing the lower part of the Rhine River, liberating and driving into the industrial heartland of northern Germany. Code-named Market Garden, the offensive called for three Allied airborne divisions (the “Market” part of the operation) to drop by parachute and glider into the Netherlands, seizing key territory and bridges so that ground forces (the “Garden”) could cross the Rhine.But controversial decisions and unfavorable circumstances began stacking up from the start of Operation Market Garden. Despite their heroic efforts, the Allied forces ultimately failed to achieve their objectives—and sustained devastating losses in the process.

The Second World War by John Keegan The Plan was the most calamitous flaw in the post Normandy campaign .It was more over barely excusable, since Ultra was supplying Montgomery's HQs from Sept 5 onward with intelligence .As early as Sept 12 Monty's own intelligence reported the Germans intended to hold out along the approaches to Antwerp. Monty - despite every warning and contrary to common military sense - refused to turn his troops back in their tracks to clear the Scheldt Estuary. 

 “The little British field-marshal’s neglect of crystal-clear intelligence and of an important strategic opportunity, became a major cause of the Western Allied failure to break into the heart of Germany in 1944".  Despite Ultra’s flagging of the presence near the drop zone of the 9th and 10th SS Panzer Divisions and also showed the Germans alert to the danger of an airborne landing in Holland It was obvious that it would be a very hard to drive the British relief force 70 miles up a single Dutch road, with the surrounding countryside impassable for armor, unless the Germans failed to offer resistance. The decision to launch Operation Market Garden’ against this background was recklessly irresponsible, and the defeat remains a deserved blot on Montgomery’s reputation

https://youtu.be/pZZMaWxIxrU
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 17, 2024, 08:27:20 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

US Constitution Signed in Philadelphia (1787)
The US Constitution embodies the fundamental principles upon which the American republic is conducted. It was drawn up at the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia and signed in 1787, and it was ratified by the required number of states the following year. It superseded the Articles of Confederation in force since 1781 and established the system of federal government that began to function in 1789. It includes seven articles and a preamble.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 18, 2024, 07:21:43 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) Is Formed (1998)
ICANN is a nonprofit corporation that manages domain name systems, the assignment of IP addresses and protocol parameters, and root server systems. The original mandate for ICANN came from a US government proposal to privatize the management of Internet names and addresses to allow for the development of competition and to facilitate global participation in Internet management. Its functions are now performed under US Government contract.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 19, 2024, 08:02:14 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Bruno Hauptmann Arrested for Murder of Charles Lindbergh, Jr. (1934)
In one of America's most notorious crimes, the infant son of famed aviator Charles Lindbergh and his wife Anne Morrow Lindbergh was kidnapped in 1932. Although a ransom of $50,000 for his release was paid, the child's body was found murdered. Two years later, Hauptmann was found with part of the ransom. In a sensational trial, he was convicted of murder. Hauptmann maintained his innocence to the last, and although temporarily reprieved, he was executed in 1936.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 19, 2024, 10:57:59 PM
On this day in 1968, The Rolling Stones’ song “Street Fighting Man” was banned from the airwaves in Chicago and a few other U.S. cities.

“Street Fighting Man” is one of the Stones’ most potent and provocative anthems. Beyond its musical innovation, the song’s incendiary lyrics about armed revolution ignited controversy.

Released in the United States in August 1968, this track arrived just as political tensions were boiling over, while in the U.K., it made its debut four months later on the album Beggars Banquet.

The B-side of the American single, “No Expectations,” carries its own weight as one of the last Stones tracks where founding member Brian Jones played a pivotal role. Indeed, “Street Fighting Man” marked the end of an era, as it was the final single to feature Jones.

“Street Fighting Man” originally bore a completely different set of lyrics. However, the escalating violence at political events throughout 1968 inspired Mick Jagger to transform the song into a direct commentary on the unrest.


Released in the wake of a summer rife with political upheaval and shortly after the Beatles dropped their similarly-themed “Revolution,” the track sparked a storm of controversy in the United States.

Many radio stations, wary of the song’s perceived call to arms, boycotted it, resulting in a modest peak at number 48 on the Billboard Hot 100, a sharp contrast to the top-three success of the previous Stones single, “Jumpin’ Jack Flash.”

Despite this lukewarm chart performance, “Street Fighting Man” was lauded by critics and cemented the Rolling Stones’ image as a band unafraid to challenge the status quo. Over time, the song has garnered praise for its sharp lyrics and innovative production, earning a place among the greatest and most influential songs of the 1960s.

The song’s release couldn’t have been more timely, arriving just days after the violent clashes between police and anti-Vietnam War protesters at the 1968 Democratic National Convention in Chicago.

Fearing the track might incite further unrest, Chicago radio stations refused to play it—a move that delighted Jagger, who quipped, “I’m rather pleased to hear they have banned the song. The last time they banned one of our records in America, it sold a million.”


Jagger cheekily acknowledged the song’s provocative nature but dismissed the notion that a revolution could be sparked by a record alone: “I wish you could.”

Keith Richards also weighed in, mocking the paranoia of the Chicago radio stations. “If you really want us to cause trouble, we could do a few stage appearances,” he mused. “We are more subversive when we go on stage.”
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 20, 2024, 10:17:56 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Saladin Begins Siege of Jerusalem (1187)
Jerusalem was conquered by the Crusaders in 1099 during the First Crusade and served as the capital of the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem for most of the 12th century, but it was besieged and captured by Saladin, the Kurdish Muslim warrior and Ayyubid Sultan of Egypt, after his decisive victory at Hattin in 1187. The Crusaders negotiated a surrender, and the two parties agreed to a peaceful handover of the city to Saladin
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on September 20, 2024, 10:24:02 AM
Didn't Richard the Lion Heart come back and defeat him?

EDIT: nevermind
Yes, Saladin was considered to be defeated by the Crusaders at the Battle of Arsuf during the Third Crusade, where Richard the Lionheart's forces significantly damaged Saladin's army, although he never fully lost control of Jerusalem and the Crusaders ultimately retreated from the region without recapturing the city
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 22, 2024, 07:31:12 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/aCvJOdw.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 22, 2024, 08:48:17 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Sara Jane Moore Attempts to Assassinate US President Gerald Ford (1975)
In September 1975, Ford was the target of two assassination attempts. Just 17 days after Manson Family member Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme unsuccessfully attempted to shoot Ford, Moore shot at him outside a San Francisco, California, hotel. The bullet just missed the president, and Moore was then subdued by a bystander, who likely saved Ford's life. Moore was sentenced to life in prison but was paroled in 2007.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 22, 2024, 11:39:19 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/P57Pe7l.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 22, 2024, 12:27:25 PM
horrible

hopefully, the original was less sweet and much better
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on September 22, 2024, 12:29:27 PM
Hunts I think is like that than Heinz 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 23, 2024, 07:43:32 AM
1922, Darryl Royal stadium in Austin.

(https://i.imgur.com/bxPycp4.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 23, 2024, 07:48:15 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/7MMdXO1.png)


1938, Columbus, Ohio.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 23, 2024, 07:48:35 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
The Concordat of Worms (1122)
The Concordat of Worms was an agreement reached by Pope Calixtus II and Holy Roman Emperor Henry V that put an end to the first phase of the power struggle between Rome and what was becoming the Holy Roman Empire. Under its terms, the king was recognized as having the right to invest bishops "by the lance" but not "by ring and staff," meaning he could grant them secular but not sacred authority.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 23, 2024, 08:36:55 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Lhinlxj.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on September 23, 2024, 11:20:26 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
The Concordat of Worms (1122)
The Concordat of Worms was an agreement reached by Pope Calixtus II and Holy Roman Emperor Henry V that put an end to the first phase of the power struggle between Rome and what was becoming the Holy Roman Empire. Under its terms, the king was recognized as having the right to invest bishops "by the lance" but not "by ring and staff," meaning he could grant them secular but not sacred authority.
I have no idea what this means.  I am always confused about the Holy Roman Empire.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 23, 2024, 11:21:17 AM
  I am always confused about the Holy Roman Empire. 
It was neither ....



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on September 23, 2024, 11:28:02 AM
It was neither ....
The only thing that I could figure out is that it was basically Germany, with a little bit more to the N/E/W/S. 
Anyways, Europe is so weird to me.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on September 23, 2024, 11:42:38 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Lhinlxj.png)
no mmeme for you - 1 year
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 23, 2024, 11:44:38 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/WD621iR.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 23, 2024, 11:48:47 AM
Charlemagne was first emperor.  His dad was "Pepin the Short", king of the Franks.  His granddad was Charles Martel, "The Hammer", credited with stopping the Muslim invasion of southern France.  We might all be Muslim today were it not for that.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 23, 2024, 01:09:35 PM
THE MONUMENTAL PIANO SONATA.
Beethoven’s Sonata Op. 106, completed in 1818, is a monumental work. It is rarely performed due to its extreme interpretive and technical demands.

The first and final movements are marked by an overwhelming surge of energy and visceral enthusiasm, while the sublime slow movement transports the listener to deeply introspective realms.
In a letter to Ries dated March 20, 1819, Beethoven expressed that the composition of Sonata Op. 106 occurred under difficult circumstances. Despite these hardships, Beethoven seemed aware of the significance of his work. He sold the sonata to Artaria…
Beethoven began sketching this sonata in 1817, while simultaneously working on a Ninth Symphony (and a Tenth), both considering the use of the human voice, though not yet incorporating Schiller’s "Ode to Joy." Despite this, the sonata emerged as his primary work in 1818.
 
Although contemporary descriptions often combine the Largo with the Allegro risoluto as the final movement, Beethoven himself referred to the Largo as the fourth movement and the Allegro risoluto as the fifth in a letter to Ries dated April 16, 1819.
One of Beethoven’s most significant structural innovations in this work lies in how he connects larger sections of the composition in the same way he relates smaller details, creating a multi-layered listening experience. Beethoven was particularly fascinated with the dramatic potential of chains of descending thirds, both on a small scale and across the entire composition. These descending thirds can modulate more abruptly than the cycle of fifths or chromatic progressions, especially when pitches are enharmonically reinterpreted.

The first movement’s dramatic tension arises from a fundamental clash between the tonalities of B-flat major and B major (and B minor), which governs the larger structural framework. The opening of the movement is particularly challenging, especially at the indicated tempo (Crotchet=138).

Beethoven became increasingly convinced of the importance of metronome markings. It's puzzling that these markings are still largely disregarded today. Seven years earlier, when Beethoven sent numerous corrections for the Hammerklavier to his London publisher, Ferdinand Ries, he regretted that he could not yet send the tempi because his metronome was broken.
Beethoven worked on Op. 106 for nearly two years, fully immersed in its musical world. For him, the tempos were not excessively fast. Although many pianists today find these markings too fast to be playable except for the Largo, some pianists are able to adhere strictly to Beethoven’s principles.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 25, 2024, 08:30:46 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Sandra Day O'Connor Becomes First Female US Supreme Court Justice (1981)
O'Connor is a lawyer and jurist who was the first female associate justice of the US Supreme Court. She served as an assistant state attorney general in her home state of Arizona in the late 1960s and, in 1969, was appointed to the state senate, where she became the country's first female majority leader. She was nominated by President Ronald Reagan to the Supreme Court in 1981, becoming the first female justice.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 26, 2024, 06:55:43 AM
The Amazon River measures 7020 km, originates at the foot of the Mismi mountain in Peru and empties into the Atlantic Ocean from Brazil.
Its mighty tributaries also pass through Colombia, Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador, Guyana, French Guiana and Suriname.
There is no bridge crossing this river.
The Spanish explorer Francisco de Orellana was the first European to navigate it to its mouth in 1541. Orellana reportd upon his return to Spain that the brigs had been attacked by numerous female warriors who mastered the bow and arrows.
Thus, giving a Homeric touch to the story, he decided to name the Amazon River after the mythical women who had fought against Heracles and Achilles in Greek mythology.         


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 26, 2024, 08:02:59 AM
There is no bridge crossing this river.

that sounds like a challenge
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 26, 2024, 08:21:50 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/l6hOrU5.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 28, 2024, 08:22:57 AM
Scientists have known for many years that Vikings — a name given to the Norse by the English they raided — built a village at L’Anse aux Meadows in Newfoundland around the turn of the millennium. But a study published in Nature is the first to pinpoint the date of the Norse occupation.

The explorers — up to 100 people, both women and men — felled trees to build the village and to repair their ships, and the new study fixes a date they were there by showing they cut down at least three trees in the year 1021 — at least 470 years before Christopher Columbus reached the Bahamas in 1492,

Previously the date was based only on sagas — oral histories that were written down in the 13th century, at least 200 years after the events they described took place. The scientific key to the exact date that the Norse were there is a spike in a naturally radioactive form of carbon detected in ancient pieces of wood from the site: some cast-off sticks, part of a tree trunk and what looks to be a piece of a plank.

Indigenous people occupied L’Anse aux Meadows both before and after the Norse, so the researchers made sure each piece had distinctive marks showing it was cut with metal tools — something the indigenous people did not have.
But their stay didn’t last long. The research suggests the Norse lived at L’Anse aux Meadows for 3 to 13 years before they abandoned the village and returned to Greenland.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on September 28, 2024, 10:31:25 AM
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/12gr99WybVk?feature=share
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 28, 2024, 12:15:16 PM
Georgia's Tunnel Hill, which was part of the "Great Locomotive Chase" in the Civil War in 1862, is one of the most interesting and historic tunnels in the US. The tunnel here, named the Western & Atlantic Railroad Tunnel, is no longer in service and open to be toured today…even by golf cart! The Western & Atlantic Railroad, established in 1836, aimed to link the Tennessee and Chattahoochee Rivers. A significant obstacle was Chetoogeta Mountain in northwest Georgia. Tunneling was the only solution, leading to the construction of this 1,477-foot tunnel in the summer of 1848. Completed in just 22 months, the first train passed through on May 9, 1850, connecting Chattanooga, Tennessee, to Atlanta, Georgia. This tunnel was a key site during the Civil War but eventually ceased being used for the railroad. After years of neglect, it was preserved and reopened to the public in 2000.

(https://i.imgur.com/7g5FtZy.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on September 29, 2024, 07:57:29 AM
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/CYJE7Qs2seU?feature=share
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 29, 2024, 08:32:13 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: provided by The Free Dictionary  Archive >>

CERN Is Founded (1954)
Abbreviated as CERN after the original French name, the European Organization for Nuclear Research is the world's largest particle physics laboratory. CERN's activities are sponsored by 20 European countries. It was there that the World Wide Web—developed to promote scientific collaboration by facilitating information sharing—was invented in the 1990s. CERN's latest project, the Large Hadron Collider, is, among other things, being used to discover the hypothesized Higgs boson
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 29, 2024, 10:43:38 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/egd1VE1.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on September 29, 2024, 12:44:53 PM
James Clerk Maxwell


James Clerk Maxwell (1831 - 1879) "The numbers may be said to rule the whole world of quantity, and the four rules of arithmetic may be regarded as the complete equipment of the mathematician." Everyone's a fan of Albert Einstein, and for good reason: He invented at least four new fields of physics, spun a brand-new theory of gravity out of the fabric of his own imagination, and taught us the true nature of time and space. But who was Einstein a fan of? James Clerk Maxwell. Who? Oh, he's only the scientist responsible for explaining the forces behind the radio in your car, the magnets on your fridge, the heat of a warm summer day and the charge on a battery. Most people aren't familiar with Maxwell, a 19th-century Scottish scientist and polymath. Yet he was perhaps the single greatest scientist of his generation and revolutionized physics in a way nobody was expecting. In fact, it took years for Maxwell's peers to realize just how awesome — and right — he was. At the time, one of the great focuses of scientific interest was the strange and perplexing properties of electricity and magnetism. While the two forces had been known to humanity for millennia, the more scientists studied these forces, the weirder they seemed. Ancient people knew that certain animals, like electric eels, could shock you if you touched them and that certain substances, like amber, could attract things if you rubbed them. They knew that lightning could start fires. They had found seemingly magical rocks, called lodestones, that could attract bits of metal. And they had mastered the use of the compass, albeit without understanding how it worked. By the time Maxwell stepped in, a wide variety of experiments had expanded on the weirdness of these forces. Scientists like Benjamin Franklin had discovered that the electricity from lightning could be stored. Luigi Galvani found that zapping living organisms with electricity caused them to move. Meanwhile, French scientists found that electricity moving down a wire could attract — or repel, depending on the direction of the flow — another wire and that electrified spheres could attract or repel with a strength proportional to the square of their separation. Most bewilderingly, there seemed to be a strange link between electricity and magnetism. Electrified wires could deflect the motion of a compass. Starting the flow of electricity in one wire could spur the flow of electricity in another, even if the wires weren't connected. Waving a magnet around could generate electricity. All of this was absolutely fascinating, but nobody had any idea what was going on. 

Then Maxwell came along. He had heard about all this electricity and magnetism confusion while he was working on another problem: how color vision works. (Indeed, he invented the color photograph.) In just a few years, Maxwell envisioned the physics and mathematics needed to explain all of the experiments relating to electricity and magnetism. To do it, he just had to think like a future scientist. Today, modern physics is based on the concept of the field, an entity that spans all of space and time and tells other objects how to move. While Maxwell wasn't the first to envision such a field, he was the first to put it to work and turn it from a convenient mathematical trick into a real physical entity. For example, Maxwell envisioned the forces of electricity and magnetism to be carried and communicated by electric and magnetic fields. Maxwell said an electric charge would produce an electric field that surrounded it. Any other charges could sense this field, and based on the strength and direction of the field, it would know how to respond to the force of the original charge. The same went for the magnetic field, and Maxwell took it one step further. He realized that electric and magnetic fields are two sides of the same coin: Electricity and magnetism weren't two separate, distinct forces, but merely two expressions of the same, unified electromagnetic force. You can't think about electricity without also thinking about magnetism, and vice versa. Let there be light Maxwell's insights took the form of 20 interconnected equations, which, a few years later, were reduced to four equations of electromagnetism that are still taught to scientists and engineers today. His revolution followed Isaac Newton's first unification of physics, in which Earth's gravity was joined with the gravity of the heavens under a single law, and Maxwell's equations became known as the second great unification in physics. Maxwell's insight was huge — who would have guessed that electricity and magnetism weren't just related, but the same? Modern physics is all about finding single unifying principles to describe vast areas of natural phenomena, and Maxwell took the unification party to the next level. But Maxwell didn't stop there. He realized that changing electric fields could induce magnetic fields, and vice versa. So he immediately began to wonder if such a setup could be self-reinforcing, wherein a changing electric field would create a changing magnetic field, which could then create a changing electric field and so on. Maxwell realized that this would be a wave — a wave of electromagnetism. He set about calculating the speed of these electromagnetic waves, using the strengths of the forces of electricity and magnetism, and out popped … the speed of light. By introducing the concept of the field to the analysis of electricity and magnetism, Maxwell discovered that light — in all its forms, from the infrared, to radio waves, to the colors of the rainbow — was really waves of electromagnetic radiation. With one set of equations, one brilliant leap of intuition and insight, Maxwell united three great realms of physics: electricity, magnetism and optics. No wonder Einstein admired him. Note: Electromagnetism His paper On Physical Lines of Force—written over the course of two years (1861-1862) and ultimately published in several parts—introduced his pivotal theory of electromagnetism. Among the tenets of his theory were (1) that electromagnetic waves travel at the speed of light, and (2) that light exists in the same medium as electric and magnetic phenomena. In 1865, Maxwell resigned from King’s College and proceeded to continue writing: A Dynamical Theory of the Electromagnetic Field during the year of his resignation; On reciprocal figures, frames and diagrams of forces in 1870; Theory of Heat in 1871; and Matter and Motion in 1876. In 1871, Maxwell became the Cavendish Professor of Physics at Cambridge, a position that put him in charge of the work conducted in the Cavendish Laboratory. The 1873 publication of A Treatise on Electricity and Magnetism, meanwhile, produced the fullest explanation yet of Maxwell’s four partial different equations, which would go on to be a major influence on Albert Einstein’s theory of relativity. On November 5, 1879, after a period of sustained illness, Maxwell died—at the age of 48—from abdominal cancer. Considered one of the greatest scientific minds the world has ever seen—on the order of Einstein and Isaac Newton—Maxwell and his contributions extend beyond the realm of electromagnetic theory to include: an acclaimed study of the dynamics of Saturn’s rings; the somewhat accidental, although still important, capturing of the first color photograph; and his kinetic theory of gases, which led to a law relating to the distribution of molecular velocities. Still, the most crucial findings of his electromagnetic theory—that light is an electromagnetic wave, that electric and magnetic fields travel in the form of waves at the speed of light, that radio waves can travel through space—constitute his most important legacy. Nothing sums up the monumental achievement of Maxwell’s life work as well as these words from Einstein himself: “This change in the conception of reality is the most profound and the most fruitful that physics has experienced since the time of Newton.”
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on September 30, 2024, 09:06:15 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Mozart's The Magic Flute Premieres (1791)
In the final year of his life, prolific composer Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart produced the opera Die Zauberflöte—The Magic Flute—featuring a libretto by the actor Emmanuel Schikaneder. The work is considered a singspiel—an opera in German that contains spoken dialogue and is usually comic in tone. Mozart brought this form of light musical entertainment to a height of lyrical and symbolic art.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 01, 2024, 01:10:59 AM
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/bmmMABikAas?feature=share
This is for 847  - we'll get them for you
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 01, 2024, 08:13:39 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Stanford University Officially Opens (1891)
California's Stanford University is one of the most prestigious universities in the US. It has extensive research facilities and places a strong emphasis on scientific, technological, and social science research. It was established in 1891 by American railroad builder, politician, and philanthropist Leland Stanford and his wife, as a memorial to their son, Leland Stanford, Jr., who died of typhoid in 1884 at age 15.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 02, 2024, 08:49:50 AM
In 1963, an East German soldier named Wolfgang Engels stole a tank and crashed through the Berlin Wall. Though he was shot twice, he made it to the other side of the wall.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 02, 2024, 09:01:25 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Nat Turner (1800)
Turner was an American slave who believed that he had been chosen to lead the slaves out of bondage. He took a solar eclipse in 1831 as a sign and began his rebellion with a few trusted fellow slaves. They killed his master's family and went from house to house, freeing slaves and killing the white people they found. The rebels grew to more than 70 before the state militia quashed the insurrection. Turner was tried and hanged along with 56 others.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 02, 2024, 10:15:55 AM
In 1963, an East German soldier named Wolfgang Engels stole a tank and crashed through the Berlin Wall. Though he was shot twice, he made it to the other side of the wall.
He should have plowed thru the wall 1st before poking his head out
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 02, 2024, 10:19:17 AM
1970
A plane carrying the Wichita State University football team, staff, and supporters crashes in Colorado; 31 of the 40 people aboard die.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 02, 2024, 11:08:30 AM
on this date
1909 Orville Wright sets an altitude record, flying at 1,600 feet. This exceeded Hubert Latham’s previous record of 508 feet.

1941 The German army launches Operation Typhoon, the drive towards Moscow.

1945 Don McLean, singer, songwriter guitarist, best known for “American Pie,” his tribute to Buddy Holly and early rock ‘n’ roll is born

1950 Peanuts, by Charles M. Schultz, makes its first appearance in newspapers.

1959 The Twilight Zone, hosted by Rod Serling, premiers on CBS.

1967 Thurgood Marshall, the first African-American Supreme Court justice, is sworn in. Marshall had previously been the solicitor general, the head of the legal staff of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP), and a leading American civil rights lawyer.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 04, 2024, 08:28:05 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Sputnik 1 Launch Begins the Space Race (1957)
The first artificial satellite, Sputnik I, was launched by the USSR in 1957 and spurred the dormant US space program into action, leading to an international competition popularly known as the "space race." Explorer I, the first American satellite, was launched just months later, in January 1958. In the decade that followed, the US and the USSR launched approximately 50 space probes between them to explore the Moon.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 05, 2024, 07:11:48 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Dr. No, the First James Bond Film, Is Released (1962)
In 1953, Ian Fleming published Casino Royale, the first of 12 novels featuring James Bond, the stylish, high-living secret service agent 007, who became one of the most successful heroes of 20th-century fiction. Packed with action, espionage, and sex, all 12 books—including From Russia, with Love, Goldfinger, and Thunderball—became popular films. Although it was not the first Bond book, Dr. No was the first to be adapted for the big screen.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 05, 2024, 07:30:52 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/wQffv2v.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 06, 2024, 08:45:53 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Battle of Tigranocerta (69 BCE)
Through an alliance with his father-in-law, Mithradates VI of Pontus, Armenian King Tigranes the Great extended his conquests across Asia Minor and founded Tigranocerta—the modern Siirt, Turkey—as the capital of his large empire. In 69 BCE, Roman forces led by General Lucullus captured Tigranocerta. With the aid of Tigranes's son, Pompey vanquished Tigranes, who lost all of his conquests and had to pay tribute to Rome.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 07, 2024, 08:13:15 AM
The Phoenix Program

Coordinated with South Vietnam's security network during the Vietnam War, the Phoenix Program was a military and intelligence program designed by the US Central Intelligence Agency to "neutralize"—via capture or assassination—the insurgency's civilian support infrastructure, which included between 70,000 and 100,000 civilians in 1967. Although some saw it as a success, the program is widely criticized as an "assassination campaign."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 08, 2024, 07:34:16 AM
Historical Phots you've never seen
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XHTaxLEbFS0?feature=share
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 08, 2024, 07:41:11 AM
During the 1700s lobsters were so plentiful that they used to wash ashore on Massachusetts beaches in piles up to 2 feet high. Lobsters were considered the “poor man’s chicken” and primarily used for fertilizer or fed to prisoners and slaves. Some indentures servants even revolted against being forced to eat the meat and the colony agreed that they would not be fed lobster meat more than three times a week.

As the American rail transportation system began to develop it made it easier for people to travel from state to state. Train workers realized that they could serve lobster to passengers because it was plentiful and cheap. Unaware of the negative stigma that was attached to these crustaceans, the passengers believed they were eating a decadent food and began requesting lobster even when they weren’t on the train.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 08, 2024, 08:01:25 AM
Sentenced to Prison they never came to get him
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-2qdRLLXMyM?feature=share
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 08, 2024, 08:22:32 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

San Marino Adopts Its Constitution (1600)
Occupying just 24 sq mi (62 sq km), San Marino is the world's smallest republic and, having enacted a constitution in 1600, perhaps Europe's oldest existing republic. According to tradition, St. Marinus, a Christian stonecutter, took refuge in the 4th century on Mount Titano, and the community of San Marino was soon formed. Because of its relatively inaccessible location, it has since maintained its independence with only a few brief interruptions.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 08, 2024, 01:09:38 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/6QvmwtS.png)

Ponce de Leon Park with the Sears building in background, ca. 1960.  Home of the Atlanta Crackers, and the Atlanta Black Crackers.  The Sears Building is now Ponce City Market.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 08, 2024, 01:43:59 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/PjoevgH.png)

We used to go there when I was a kid.  There also was a "Catfish Inn" nearby.  Neither is there now.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 08, 2024, 01:46:04 PM
not everyone would cornsider channel cat as the world's finest fish dinner
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 08, 2024, 01:49:51 PM
There is a choice for those who are so uneducated.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 08, 2024, 02:55:49 PM
On October 08th, 1947, An American Airlines DC-4 was in flight over El Paso, Texas, when, as a prank, a captain riding in the jump seat engaged the gust lock in flight.
 
Not knowing the gust lock had been engaged, the command pilot rolled the elevator trim tab with no response. When the jump seat captain disengaged the gust lock, the aircraft went into a steep dive, executed part of an outside roll and became inverted.
Neither the command nor jump seat captain had seat belts on and they accidentally feathered No. 1, 2 and 4 engines when they hit the controls with their heads. No one realized it at the time but the feathering reduced power and allowed the co-pilot, who was strapped in, to pull out of the dive only 350 feet from the ground.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 08, 2024, 03:16:54 PM
We used to go there when I was a kid.  There also was a "Catfish Inn" nearby.  Neither is there now.
"Big Jim" eat them too?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 08, 2024, 03:19:03 PM
On October 08th, 1947, An American Airlines DC-4 was in flight over El Paso, Texas, when, as a prank, a captain riding in the jump seat engaged the gust lock in flight.
Was there an open or closed casket for the Captain?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 08, 2024, 03:28:41 PM
I bet no one was laughing right after it happened, I didn't see if there were passengers.   Back then, seat belts were often not worn back there.  It would have been a real mess if the FAs were serving anything.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on October 08, 2024, 04:10:01 PM
Was there an open or closed casket for the Captain?
I looked it up.  Captain Sisto, who pulled the lever as a prank, lost his flying license.  He did eventually regain his private license, but I couldn't find out much else about him.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 09, 2024, 07:30:24 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Great Hurricane of 1780 Forms (1780)
The Great Hurricane of 1780 was the deadliest Atlantic hurricane in recorded history. Coming during a very active hurricane season, the storm formed on October 9 and struck Barbados the next day with winds possibly exceeding 200 mph (320 km/h). It then passed over several other islands, leaving mass destruction in its wake. Thousands of deaths were reported on each island, and more than 20,000 people had died by the time the storm dissipated. How did the hurricane impact the American Revolution?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 10, 2024, 08:47:47 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/hFzkoIM.png)

A train passes through densely packed housing along Kensal Rise, London, England. March 1921.
One interesting fact about Kensal Rise in 1921 is that the area was part of a broader trend of suburban expansion in London, driven by the growth of the railway network.
The railways made it possible for people to live further from the city center while still commuting to work, contributing to the development of neighborhoods like Kensal Rise.
The presence of the railway also influenced the daily lives of residents, with the noise, smoke, and vibrations from passing trains being a regular part of their urban experience.
This integration of railways and housing exemplifies the industrial era's impact on urban planning and community life in London.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 10, 2024, 02:46:19 PM
1292 years ago today on October 10, 732 Charles Martel defeated the Moors at Tours.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 10, 2024, 05:00:46 PM
Charles and Hank……
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 11, 2024, 08:22:15 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Launch of Apollo 7 (1968)
In 1961, US President John F. Kennedy committed the US to the goal of landing astronauts on the Moon and bringing them safely back to Earth by the end of the decade. The resulting Apollo program is said to have been the largest scientific and technological undertaking in history. The project's first successful manned mission was Apollo 7, which paved the way for the Moon landing less than a year later.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 11, 2024, 12:50:33 PM
The Arcane Texas Fact of the Day:
Both the iconic "steerhead" logo of the Texas Longhorns athletic teams and the burnt orange color worn by them were the result of the work of one man: William "Rooster" Andrews.
In 1961, coach Darrell Royal talked to Andrews, who at at time was a salesman for C&S Sporting Goods, about ways to improve the Longhorns uniform. Back then, the Longhorns' helmets were white with orange numerals on the side and a thin orange stripe down the center. Andrews told Royal he had an idea and would work on it that night. He found a Longhorn head in a book, traced it and colored it in with crayon, and then found a distributor to make decals of the logo. They were added onto the helmets of the 1961 Longhorn football team and have remained there ever since.
One year later, Royal and Andrews worked together to change the uniform color from the bright orange that was then used to the burnt orange in use today. Royal wanted the color to be darker, closer to the color of the football, the way the practice uniforms looked when they were stained with sweat after a hot, hard practice. Andrews soaked a uniform in water and showed it to a manufacturer who was then able to make uniforms with the burnt orange color.
Andrews, who stood all of 4'11", was a colorful character.  From 1941 to 1945 he was both the team manager for the Longhorns football team and a roommate with future Pro Football Hall of Fame quarterback Bobby Layne. In 1943, during World War II when many schools suspended their football programs due to lack of men, Texas had trouble finding a kicker. Andrews showed off his drop kick style in practice, an unusual style at the time, and earned a chance to play by winning a kicking contest in practice. His first chance came against TCU when he kicked two extra points and had a third attempt blocked, enraging TCU coach Dutch Meyer who saw the use of the team's water boy as an insult. Meyer dared coach Dana X. Bible to use Andrews the following week against Texas A&M and Bible did, with Andrews kicking two more extra points and having a field goal blocked.
Rooster continued to play in the 1944 and 1945 seasons. On a few occasions he faked the kick and instead threw passes to Bobby Layne, a play that succeeded once against Oklahoma in 1945 and once in his final game, the 1946 Cotton Bowl. Twice he connected with Layne for touchdowns. But Andrews primary job was to keep his roommate, hard-partying, hard-drinking quarterback Bobby Layne, out of trouble.
In addition to managing the football team, Andrews played seven different positions for the UT baseball team as a part-time player in 1944–45, and was a manager in 1946.  Once sent in to draw a base on balls, he hit a game-winning home run instead.
His nickname, "Rooster," came from a college incident in which he broke an arm trying to retrieve a chicken from a tree.
In 1971, Rooster opened a sporting goods store in Austin.  In 1971 he opened the first of his own sporting goods stores in Austin. At its peak, Rooster Andrews Sporting Goods had four retail locations across Austin and employed more than 70 people.
Rooster Andrews died in 2008 at the age of 84, having been friends with just about everybody who ever was anybody in Texas during his lifetime. He was one of those people who always had a smile on his face when you'd visit one of his stores. I still have a football he sold to me in 1994.
Shown here: Rooster Andrews (center) during his time as a player/manager for the Longhorns football team and the Longhorns logo he invented.  In 2013, Athlon Sports named the steerhead logo that Andrews developed as the nation's best college football logo.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 12, 2024, 08:19:43 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First Oktoberfest Held in Munich, Germany (1810)
The first Oktoberfest was held as a horse race celebrating the wedding of Crown Prince Ludwig of Bavaria to Princess Therese von Saxony-Hildburghausen. In the years that followed, the race was combined with the state agricultural fair, and food and drink were offered. Since that time the 16-day festival has become, above all else, a celebration of German beer, drawing more than five million attendees annually.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 12, 2024, 08:24:03 AM
Oktoberfest just ended over there
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 12, 2024, 09:11:25 AM
Oktoberfest just ended over there
Yeah, for all the people that complain about the "Christmas Season" starting in October, you can blame the Germans for the Oktoberfest starting in September :57:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 12, 2024, 09:18:33 AM
Well ya gotta tap the kegs & make sure they're flowing and clean all the lines too. And test all the food offerings don't want visitors getting sick.And get all that rowdy music tuned in also
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 12, 2024, 09:49:07 AM
Yeah, for all the people that complain about the "Christmas Season" starting in October, you can blame the Germans for the Oktoberfest starting in September :57:
Germans are not patient people.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 13, 2024, 07:33:34 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Ankara Replaces Istanbul as Capital of Turkey (1923)
Ankara was an important commercial center for millennia, but in the late 19th century it experienced a decline. By the early 20th century, it was just a small town known primarily for its mohair production. After WWI, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk made Ankara the seat of his provisional nationalist government. In 1923, it replaced Istanbul as Turkey's capital, partly to break with tradition and partly because of its central location.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 13, 2024, 12:02:37 PM
The Gallo-Roman town of Lutetia was the chief settlement of the Parisii (Gallic tribe). It stretched along the left bank of the River Seine, on what is now Sainte-Geneviève hill and the Île de la Cité (natural island in the Seine). A network of orthogonal roads divided the town into blocks (insulae) containing public spaces and dwellings. This street plan was organized around a major north-south thoroughfare, the present-day rue Saint-Jacques.
At its apogee in the late 2nd century AD, Lutetia was home to almost 10 000 people, a modest population among the towns of Gaul. Lutetia boasted a forum with its basilica and probably a temple, places of entertainment (a theater and above all the amphitheater), and public baths, in the south, the east, and the north (those called Cluny). Its craftsmen and tradespeople generated the town’s wealth and its influential guild of boatmen controlled navigation on the River Seine and its tributaries. These boatmen, the nautae parisiaci, played a major role in town life, and in the early days of the Roman Empire even erected a monument to Emperor Tiberius, the famed Pillar of the Boatmen.
In the 4th century, barbarian incursions, rural malcontents, and political upheaval prompted the inhabitants of Lutetia to abandon the left bank and withdraw to the Île de la Cité, around which they erected ramparts. Paradoxically, as the town’s fortunes waned, its military importance grew, and by the year 360 when Julian’s soldiers proclaimed him Emperor there, his beloved Lutetia was well on the way to becoming Paris.
Greek geographer Strabo, in the 1st century BC, wrote “On the banks of the river Sequanas (Seine) lived the Parisii who occupied an island in the river and had for a city Lucotocia (Lutetia).” Later the town grew and its people erected public monuments, but it was never more than a modest town of Roman Gaul. In short, its origins are commonplace, like many urban centers in Antiquity. Yet the town that was to emerge as the capital of France needed to take pride in glorious beginnings, so from the Middle Ages onwards all manner of legendary origins were dreamed up. One such outlandish story linked it to the fall of Troy, after which displaced Trojans were said to have settled on the banks of the Seine in a place that was “beautiful and delectable, plentiful and fertile and well placed for living.”*
As for the Parisii, it was claimed that their name came from Paris himself, the son of Priamand lover of Helen of Troy. Such a filiation, fanciful as it was, conferred on Lutetia a mythical origin comparable to that of Rome, which in one tradition was founded by the Trojan Aeneas. And to further extol its beginnings, it was even professed that Lutetia was founded well before the Eternal City, a view completely at odds with current archaeological opinion, which holds that the oldest traces of a Roman presence in the soil of Paris go no further back than 30 BC.
Lutetia: from Gallic to Roman
In his Commentaries on the Gallic War (Book VII, 57), Julius Caesar mentions Lutetia “town of the Parisii, situated on an island in the Seine,” but archaeological excavations have never uncovered significant Gallic remains on the Île de la Cité. To the point that researchers are beginning to wonder whether Lutetia was located elsewhere, at Nanterre, where a site has recently yielded substantial traces of Celtic occupation. All the more so since the Nanterre site was abandoned early in the reign of Emperor Augustus, just at the time of the first signs of a Roman presence in Paris. According to this hypothesis, Lutetia was transferred to the Sainte-Geneviève hill, where the Gallo-Roman town was founded and then grew during the 1st century AD.
Without falling prey to simplistic determinism, it is legitimate to underscore the advantages of the location of Paris. First there is the Seine, a major waterway extended by a whole series of navigable tributaries. Situated at the nexus of several complementary regions, the site was also favorable for water- land transfers. Swampy, dotted with small islands and channels, the alluvial plain is surrounded by heights and hills conducive to human settlement. Roman city planners little by little mastered this environment and laid out the pattern of the town.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 14, 2024, 06:43:17 AM
A Ramblin’ Wreck is more than just a snappy nickname for Georgia Tech. It speaks to the very reason the school was created in the first place.

To help bring the Industrial Revolution to Georgia, the Georgia School of Technology began with $65,000 in state funding and 84 students.  At first, the school was narrowly focused, teaching only mechanical engineering but by the turn of the century students also studied chemical, civil, and electrical engineering.

Philanthropist Andrew Carnegie donated $20,000 to build the first library and the legendary John Heisman became the first fulltime football coach in 1903.  When Tech grads designed makeshift vehicles for projects in South American jungles, these contraptions — and their builders — became known as Ramblin' Wrecks from Georgia Tech.  The school became Georgia Institute of Technology in 1948 to reflect the greater emphasis on science and advanced technology.

Women began attending in 1951, and ten years later, Tech became the first major state university in the Deep South to admit African American students without a court order.



(https://i.imgur.com/0GvWsma.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 14, 2024, 07:16:39 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Theodore Roosevelt Shot in the Chest While Campaigning (1912)
During a bid for the presidency in 1912, Roosevelt was shot by saloonkeeper John Schrank. The bullet lodged in his chest after penetrating a steel eyeglass case and a folded copy of the 50-page speech he was carrying in his jacket, but he refused to go to the hospital until after he had delivered his scheduled speech. Doctors deemed it too dangerous to remove the bullet, and it remained in Roosevelt's chest for the rest of his life.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 14, 2024, 07:17:06 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/S0ZfyUt.png)

Road near me from 1954.  It looks a bit different now.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 14, 2024, 07:22:00 AM
I'll buy gas for $2.67 this morning

only 10 times higher than the pic above
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 14, 2024, 10:02:12 AM
Today marks four years since the "laptop from hell" story was correctly published by the New York Post.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 16, 2024, 01:35:30 AM
I'll buy gas for $2.67 this morning

only 10 times higher than the pic above
Got it for 2.58 in town on mondayanyway
One guy survived Hiroshima and moved to Nagasaki well he withstood that too.These NFL guys are cupcakes
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/FBg6yxvGqME?feature=share
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 16, 2024, 06:38:07 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Marie Antoinette Guillotined (1793)
The daughter of Austrian Archduchess Maria Theresa and Holy Roman Emperor Francis I, Marie Antoinette was the queen of France and wife of King Louis XVI. Her devotion to Austria, reputation for extravagance, and connection to scandals made her unpopular and helped to provoke the French Revolution. After the storming of the Tuileries palace, she and Louis were accused of treason. The king was executed, and Marie was tried, found guilty, and guillotined. Did she really say "Let them eat cake"?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 17, 2024, 09:50:53 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The First British Open Is Held in Scotland (1860)
The Open Championship of the British Isles, or the Open, is the oldest and one of the most prestigious golf championship tournaments in the world. It began in 1860 at Scotland's Prestwick course and is now rotated among select courses in England and Scotland. The first tournament was won by Willie Park, who also recorded the tournament's highest single-hole stroke total—21. Though today the Open has a multimillion-dollar prize fund, there was no prize money initially.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 17, 2024, 09:51:46 PM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Robert Craig "Evel" Knievel (1938)
Knievel was an American daredevil and icon of the 1970s. He began doing motorcycle stunts as a teenager, then embarked on an incredibly varied career that included professional hockey, a stint in the army, work in copper mines, and eventually crime—safecracking and holdups. In 1965 he "went straight" and took up performing dangerous and thrilling stunts, which did not always go smoothly and eventually earned him the record for most broken bones in a lifetime.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 18, 2024, 04:59:45 PM
The St. Mark Lion in Venice was (mostly) made in China
----------------------
The winged lion that stands on the column in St. Mark’s Square in Venice that is an icon of the city was mostly made in China. A new metallurgic study of the bronze has discovered a large part of it originated from 8th century China and after making its way to Venice, was mixed with other parts and reconstructed in to fit the standard iconography of the winged lion, symbol of Mark the Evangelist and of Venice itself.
Based on research done after a 1980s restoration, the statue was believed to have been made in Anatolia during the early Hellenistic era (4th century B.C.), but a study of the lead isotopes in the metal alloy found they came from mines in the lower basin of the Yangtze River in southeastern China. Armed with the hard science, researchers reexamined the lion’s design and found characteristic features of Tang Dynasty (618-907 A.D.) sculptures in the head, mane and chest.
This style of creature had a specific function in Tang Dynasty sculpture as tomb guardians. Some of the characteristic features shared by St. Mark’s lion and zhenmushou figures include wide nostrils with a moustache pointing up on each side, a wide open mouth with a pair of wide-set canines in the top jaw and more narrow set ones on the bottom, a flat plate of teeth between them and prominent orbital sockets in which horns were mounted. The orbitals are truncated in the lion, indicating that it too had horns or antlers but they were amputated to make him look more lionine. His ears also appear to have been trimmed and rounded, as the original zhenmushou ears were higher and pointed.
The lion likely made its way west over the Silk Road through India and Afghanistan, which had a very active flow of trade during the Tang Dynasty. That flow was closed off for some centuries after, reopening at the time of Marco Polo’s voyages in the 13th century. There are no historical sources recording when the lion came to Venice, or when and how it took its current form. Marco Polo wrote about it after his return from China in 1295, but not only was it already on top of the column at that time, it was already in need of restoration so it had been up there exposed to the elements for decades.
Also, it’s huge — more than 13 feet long and weighing three tons — so the fact that there are no references to its transportation and erection suggests it arrived in more manageable pieces. Analysis of the samples from various parts of the sculpture found it was recast in parts and Frankensteined together in at least five or six phases, and that’s before Napoleon looted it and French construction workers dropped it and broke it into 20 pieces when they were forced to give it back after his defeat.


(https://i.imgur.com/HhQrhZF.png)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 18, 2024, 05:43:27 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/43fg0yj.png)

Texas 1940s.  Think this was any good?  Did they do goat much back then?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 19, 2024, 07:34:30 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Streptomycin Is First Isolated (1943)
After coining the word "antibiotic" for bacteria-killing chemicals derived from micro-organisms, American microbiologist Selman A. Waksman, working with Albert Schatz, isolated streptomycin—the fourth antibiotic ever discovered. Waksman won the 1952 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine for the discovery. Streptomycin acts by inhibiting protein synthesis and damaging cell membranes.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 19, 2024, 09:03:51 AM
50 years ago Mellow Mushroom was founded in 1974 by three college students, Rocky Reeves, Mike Nicholson, and Marc "Banks" Weinstein, in Atlanta, Georgia. The first location was near Georgia Tech on Spring Street, followed by a second store in Sandy Springs the same year. Known for its unique "Southern" style pizza and eclectic, psychedelic-inspired decor, Mellow Mushroom expanded rapidly and now has over 160 locations across 19 states. The company is headquartered in Atlanta and continues to emphasize creativity and quality in its offerings.

(https://i.imgur.com/k43H09Z.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 19, 2024, 09:13:24 AM
Too much crust.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 19, 2024, 09:19:00 AM
A message from our owner:
Hey Guys,
I hope you’re in the  mood for a little bit of good news out of Downtown Asheville, cuz I’m bringing it! As of my writing this on Tuesday, the 15th, we’ve had running water at the Mellow for a day already. Now this water isn’t considered potable by any stretch, but it’s running. It’s funny how we’ve all just learned to take this simple thing for granted, and it now causes me to marvel at how people just three generations ago got by. Amazed is an understatement...but nonetheless, we are now finding ourselves back in the 21st century and things are looking up.
For those of you who donated to our GoFundMe, Thank You! You made it possible for us to operate for another week, and this past weekend we produced over 1100 pizzas that we delivered not only in town, but to the most outlying communities within reason. We put out over 7000 in eight production days. That’s a record for us, and that’s only operating the line for four hours a day. In 30+ years of doing this, I’ve never seen anything like it.


After driving out to some far points in surrounding counties to some of the places hardest hit, I can say with certainty that this region will be in need of your help for months to come. Please don’t forget about us.
And I’d like to thank everyone who has worked at the Mellow through this moment when, it was them who made any of what we’ve done so far possible. I have the pleasure of seeing the best in humanity on a daily basis. And it’s them that made the little drop in the big sea of charity that we see here in WNC. I might have said “Let’s do this”, but it was them who actually made it happen and they did it without pause. I will forever be grateful for all of the beautiful people that I have worked with many who showed up just to be charitable during it all even if that hadn’t made a pizza in years. It’s a beautiful thing to witness, people in their finest moment (even though they didn’t give it one ounce of consideration) giving the one thing that they can make the most positive impact with...this tragedy rekindled my faith in our humanity.
Wishing Peace and better days ahead to all y’all,


Gerry

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 19, 2024, 09:20:06 AM
Too much crust.
(https://i.imgur.com/DXNlGeA.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 19, 2024, 09:27:24 AM
Like I said...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 19, 2024, 09:32:27 AM
So slather on some garlic butter
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 19, 2024, 09:44:06 AM
I end up with large chunks of "bread" if I eat that kind of pizza.  I think we went there once, I don't recall anything about it.  There is one near us.  I gather I thought it was just OK as we haven't been back and we walk over that way fairly often.  There are several good restaurants in that area.  And a Starbucks, I still cannot fathom the popularity of SB.  

There is a new Korean place in that area we've yet to try.  

ABOUT — Umma Kitchen (https://www.ummakitchen.us/about)

We usually go to Apres Diem as they have a very nice patio in the sun.  We love going to the Persian place near us for brunch, Divan at the Castle.  They have great outside seating.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 19, 2024, 10:10:29 AM
there's a mellow in Lincoln now

I tried one in Texas.

Haven't been back

I guess some folks like it
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 20, 2024, 03:55:45 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Ube9oZE.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 20, 2024, 11:11:25 PM
Zanzibar Pranksters

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/NL7qYfxmGEg?feature=share

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on October 20, 2024, 11:20:47 PM
There was a mellow mushroom in Austin for a while.  I never tried it and now it seems to be gone.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 21, 2024, 05:29:34 AM
There was a mellow mushroom in Austin for a while.  I never tried it and now it seems to be gone.


It is gone, you didn't really miss anything.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 21, 2024, 06:47:20 AM
Three main Native American trails through DeKalb County: the Hightower Trail, the Peachtree Trail, and the Sandtown Trail.
Before white settlers occupied today’s DeKalb County, two prominent Native American nations, the Creek and Cherokee, lived on and traveled through the area for thousands of years. These nations had a tremendous effect on the development of Georgia that largely goes unnoticed in modern day, but is nonetheless important to consider. There were three main Native American trails that ran through modern day DeKalb County: the Hightower Trail, the Peachtree Trail, and the Sandtown Trail. These trails were used by the Creek and Cherokee people for travel and trade between each other and other Native American nations in the Southeast region. These trails traced the shortest possible distances between destinations and least treacherous routes. Because of this, white settlers used these trails for themselves as wagon roads in the early settler period, and they have since become parts of prominent roads, boundaries, and rail lines in DeKalb County.

Generally, the Native American trails followed the highest ridges, which is why many converged at Stone Mountain. Moreover, they avoided streams as much as possible, making the areas where the trails were originally established ideal points of travel even to this day. This can be seen most prevalently with how we currently use the old Peachtree Trail. Peachtree Trail connected to Sandtown Trail in Stone Mountain and ran through today’s Peachtree Road and Peachtree Street, two frequently traveled roads today. Moreover, Southern Railway followed the same path as the Peachtree Trail, and was a railroad that connected much of the Southeast. The proximity of Peachtree Trail and these areas of transportation is no coincidence. Developers of the Southern Railway sought out high ridges for the railroad. Even though the Creek and Cherokee people have since been pushed out of the area, their most important trails, being ideal points of travel, have become essential roads and railways for the county today.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 21, 2024, 06:50:03 AM
Native American Trails of DeKalb County - DeKalb History Center (https://dekalbhistory.org/blog-posts/a-walk-through-the-past-a-history-of-dekalb-countys-native-american-trails/?fbclid=IwY2xjawGDEMhleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHTeP2ViNtud90sxg9e0srB_nkjvGtLB8Vci4QnEWoWrKcqSo2kXSne3Fxg_aem_aZl74p8jYT2MXfJE6Vst0Q)

(https://i.imgur.com/F18Z8QP.png)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 21, 2024, 07:04:29 AM
Sir Winston Churchill, Britain's iconic prime minister who helped navigate the country through most of World War II, was a man who reveled in good food, clothing, drink, and cigars, and was never ashamed to admit it. He is credited with saying, "I have taken more out of alcohol than it has taken out of me." As someone who himself wrote profusely, and about whom much has been written, we actually know a great deal about Churchill's favorite indulgences. He enjoyed raw oysters, Romeo y Julieta cigars, and Hartmann luggage. We even know one of his favorite Scotch whiskies.

While we can't condone Churchill's well-known excesses, he was certainly a man of taste. He didn't simply drink just any whisky or smoke just any cigar. It stands to reason, as a subject of the British Empire, he would have a particular affiliation with Scotch whisky. Surprisingly, single malt Scotch barely existed outside Scotland until the 1960s, and blended whisky made up almost the entire output of Scotland's distilleries. So it makes sense that Churchill was particularly fond of Johnnie Walker Red Label, a preference observed by several biographers, along with the brand's more expensive Black Label. In fact, Johnnie Walker is one of those must-know whisky brands that ought to be on your bar, whether you appreciate Churchill's endorsement or not.

Read More: https://www.chowhound.com/1687728/winston-churchill-favorite-scotch-johnnie-walker/

https://www.chowhound.com/1687728/winston-churchill-favorite-scotch-johnnie-walker/ (https://www.chowhound.com/1687728/winston-churchill-favorite-scotch-johnnie-walker/)


According to Churchill himself, as a young man, he initially didn't even like whisky, saying in his autobiography "My Early Life" that he "disliked the flavor intensely." However, he began to get a taste for the drink in his early 20s when he volunteered for the British military and was stationed in India at the turn of the century. There, drinking water was of a dubious quality, so water mixed with whiskey was a safer option. The experience does seem to have influenced his future drinking. According to his biographers — particularly Richard Langworth who wrote "Winston Churchill, Myth and Reality" – he never drank his whiskey neat, instead sipping several well-diluted whisky-and-sodas each day.

His appreciation for Johnnie Walker and Scotch in general is also well documented. Churchill was an avid painter, and in 1926 created a still life titled "Bottlescape." The painting features a dozen wine and spirits bottles, including a prominently displayed Black Label bottle (you can still view it at his country home-turned-museum Chartwell). During WWII, when ration measures were in place, the Prime Minister made certain a supply of barley was available to Scotch distillers. Scotchwhisky.com reports that Churchill said in a memo, "it would be most improvident not to preserve this characteristic British element of ascendancy." The Churchill Project states that, in the 1950s an appraiser found Chartwell's wine cellar to be in a "shambles," except for cases of Johnnie Walker Red, Hine Cognac, and Champagne. And Churchill once signed a book of his to John Walker's son Alexander, dubbing Johnnie Walker the "national brew."

The difference between Johnnie Walker Red and Black Labels

Johnnie Walker is a blended Scotch whiskey brand dating back to 1820, which means it's made up of several different kinds of whisky (including single malt and grain whiskies) from several distilleries. It's owned by Diageo, which has access to distilleries across Scotland. The brand's master blender and her team carefully selects different barrels in different proportions to create each expression, identified by the color of its label, including Red, Black, Green, Platinum, and Blue (considered the top-tier expression).

Johnnie Walker Red Label is a no-age statement (NAS) blended whisky and is made by combining up to 35 different component whiskies. It's considered the base core label and the most popular expression. Though it might be the least expensive of the brand's portfolio, it's a well-regarded whisky with a slightly sweet, then smoky open. Hints of heather and a pungent herbal astringency end with a short, hot finish. It's probably best mixed with soda or ginger beer in a highball.

Johnnie Walker Black Label is the next label up in the portfolio. Featuring only single malt and grain whiskies, the blend is then aged 12 years. The extra age and emphasis on more single malts creates a milder, rounder whisky. There's increased smoke from peated whisky, floral notes, and a hint of Sherry. The long finish is pleasant with notes of ash, heather, and malt.



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 22, 2024, 07:38:33 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Scilly Naval Disaster (1707)
Celebrated English Admiral Cloudesley Shovell was returning from an abortive attack on Toulon, France, in 1707 when his ship and several others struck rocks off the Scilly Islands, southwest of England. In one of the greatest maritime disasters in British history, Shovell is believed to have drowned along with as many as 2,000 sailors. According to one of the many legends about the disaster, Shovell reached the shore alive, only to be murdered by a woman
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 22, 2024, 08:07:49 AM
Never heard of'em, gave rise to a desire to be able to measure longitude more accurately.

(https://i.imgur.com/yn50qUp.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 22, 2024, 08:19:54 AM
With a fuel load of 33,626 gallons of aviation gas and 1,500 gallons of engine oil, the B-36 Peacemaker required a fleet of tanker trucks for each fill-up. At cruising speed this B model’s six Pratt & Whitney Wasp Major R-4360 engines consumed 600 gallons of gas an hour. Each 28 cylinder engine had its own 250 gallon engine oil tank. Each cylinder had two spark spark plugs for a total of 336 per plane.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 23, 2024, 08:46:09 AM
On July 2, 1963, baseball witnessed an unforgettable showdown that still echoes in MLB history. It wasn't just a game; it was a clash of titans—Juan Marichal of the San Francisco Giants and Warren Spahn of the Milwaukee Braves. Both pitchers delivered an extraordinary display of stamina and skill, going head-to-head for a mind-boggling 15 scoreless innings.
Marichal, just 25 years old, hurled an incredible 230 pitches, while the veteran Spahn, at 42, threw 204. The two legends matched each other pitch for pitch, defying exhaustion, before the iconic Willie Mays finally ended the duel with a solo home run in the 16th inning, giving the Giants a 1-0 victory.
It was a night of grit, determination, and pure love for the game. When Spahn was asked about the game later, he quipped with his characteristic humor, "I thought my arm was going to fall off!" But it didn't. Instead, it gave fans one of the greatest games ever pitched in baseball history.
This game wasn’t just about the numbers—it was a battle of endurance, a display of two pitchers' refusal to back down, and a reminder of the raw, unfiltered beauty of baseball.

(https://i.imgur.com/pRHiWwn.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 23, 2024, 09:18:37 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/XzX8xE9.png)

Boeing 337.  Typo.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 23, 2024, 09:23:21 AM
327?

Was a great engine.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 23, 2024, 10:27:13 AM
boeing 337 stratocruiser
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on October 23, 2024, 11:20:54 AM
327?

Was a great engine.
I'm kinda partial to the 427.


(https://i.imgur.com/nSkEQwY.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 23, 2024, 11:29:38 AM
I'm kinda partial to the 427.
In this, yes.


(https://i.imgur.com/Ze84f6M.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 23, 2024, 11:30:12 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/z3dCgRX.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 23, 2024, 11:30:28 AM
I'm kinda partial to the 427.


(https://i.imgur.com/nSkEQwY.png)
Me too.

(https://i.imgur.com/Dhv542a.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 23, 2024, 11:33:00 AM
I'm not a Ford guy. But I rooted for them against Ferrari in that movie.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on October 23, 2024, 12:00:45 PM
I'm not a Ford or GM or MOPAR guy.  There are vehicles I like from all of them.

And vehicles I dislike from all of them, too.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: SFBadger96 on October 23, 2024, 12:26:20 PM
One of the more interesting things I learned recently is that, with a few notable exceptions built primarily for the track, despite massive large block V-8 power plants, most production muscle cars topped out at around 130-135 mph. Allegedly wind resistance had a lot to do with this (and the production-level tires probably weren't safe past it in any case). I found that particularly interesting because I once got a Dodge Dart with a 225 slant six up to 105 mph (even as a teenager it was terrifying--that car was not meant to go that fast). So adding 200 cubic inches of pure freedom only increased the top speed by 25-30 mph. Compare that to my friend's mid-90s Acura that hit 120 with ease (and probably could have gone a bit faster, but I didn't want to push it). And, of course, the cars today drive much, much faster. Physics is pretty interesting.

I would still love to have a handful of muscle cars from the late 60s. Or a 1958-62 Vette (or later in the 60s, but you know, if someone were asking...). Between improved fuel efficiency standards, better tires, and precision engineering massively increasing the ability to produce high-compression engines, cars today are so much better in almost every way, except, perhaps, aura. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: SFBadger96 on October 23, 2024, 12:43:05 PM
Probably because I always liked the unbeaten path, I've always been partial to the 1967 notchback 'cudas:
(https://i.imgur.com/DntcghE.jpeg)

Would I really take this over a 1967 Camaro SS? Probably not. But I would still happily drive it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 23, 2024, 01:08:24 PM
I'd go with the '68 Camaro SS.

(https://i.imgur.com/n8jGNN7.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on October 23, 2024, 01:13:44 PM
A friend in high school had this:

(https://i.imgur.com/tdTl1rs.jpeg)

That he sold and traded for this:

(https://i.imgur.com/plHGWhA.jpeg)

And I was very much cool with it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 23, 2024, 01:17:03 PM
One of the more interesting things I learned recently is that, with a few notable exceptions built primarily for the track, despite massive large block V-8 power plants, most production muscle cars topped out at around 130-135 mph. Allegedly wind resistance had a lot to do with this 
Drag increases with the square of velocity, so you really need to be slippery in the air if you want high top speeds. Because every mph of added speed adds more drag than the mph just before it. 

In fact, power-weight ratio mostly affects acceleration, while top speed is driven by horsepower vs coefficient of drag (and frontal area). 

My motorcycle (2001 650cc V-twin sportbike) was considered pretty low powered for a sportbike at only ~66 hp, whereas 600cc 4-cylinder bikes of the era were putting out 100 hp and 1000cc 4-cylinder bikes putting out maybe 140 hp. But it apparently it was rated at a 0-60 time of ~3.4s. Which puts it in modern very high performance sports car territory off the line, and WAY faster than any of those muscle cars. But it also topped out just over 130 mph, because motorcycles are an aerodynamic nightmare. A 100 hp 2001 GSX-R600 would get you only about another 25 mph, top speed reportedly 158 mph. Throw another 40 hp on top of that for the GSX-R1000, and you get to... 173 mph. (All numbers from Google). 

The muscle cars of those days weren't designed by computers an optimized for wind tunnel performance the way things are today. 

Modern Sedan Cd: 0.30-0.35
Muscle Car Cd: 0.45
Estimated MotoGP Motorcycle Cd (https://www.cycleworld.com/blogs/ask-kevin/aero-drag-on-motogp-motorcycles-explained/) (with rider): 0.60

So yeah, I'm not surprised a muscle car tops out at 130-135 mph despite the big engine. The coefficient of drag AND the frontal area are both pretty terrible. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 23, 2024, 02:20:25 PM
One of the more interesting things I learned recently is that, with a few notable exceptions built primarily for the track, despite massive large block V-8 power plants, most production muscle cars topped out at around 130-135 mph. Allegedly wind resistance had a lot to do with this (and the production-level tires probably weren't safe past it in any case). I found that particularly interesting because I once got a Dodge Dart with a 225 slant six up to 105 mph (even as a teenager it was terrifying--that car was not meant to go that fast). 
In college I had an old Ford pickup with the 300 straight six and several friends had newer V8 trucks.  I could actually outrun them because mine was built before speed-limiters were added and it could do a hair over 100 while theirs were all factory limited at <100.  

The problem was that they accelerated so much faster than me that it took many miles to catch up.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 23, 2024, 02:38:37 PM
Drag increases with the square of velocity, so you really need to be slippery in the air if you want high top speeds. Because every mph of added speed adds more drag than the mph just before it.

In fact, power-weight ratio mostly affects acceleration, while top speed is driven by horsepower vs coefficient of drag (and frontal area).

My motorcycle (2001 650cc V-twin sportbike) was considered pretty low powered for a sportbike at only ~66 hp, whereas 600cc 4-cylinder bikes of the era were putting out 100 hp and 1000cc 4-cylinder bikes putting out maybe 140 hp. But it apparently it was rated at a 0-60 time of ~3.4s. Which puts it in modern very high performance sports car territory off the line, and WAY faster than any of those muscle cars. But it also topped out just over 130 mph, because motorcycles are an aerodynamic nightmare. A 100 hp 2001 GSX-R600 would get you only about another 25 mph, top speed reportedly 158 mph. Throw another 40 hp on top of that for the GSX-R1000, and you get to... 173 mph. (All numbers from Google).

The muscle cars of those days weren't designed by computers an optimized for wind tunnel performance the way things are today.

Modern Sedan Cd: 0.30-0.35
Muscle Car Cd: 0.45
Estimated MotoGP Motorcycle Cd (https://www.cycleworld.com/blogs/ask-kevin/aero-drag-on-motogp-motorcycles-explained/) (with rider): 0.60

So yeah, I'm not surprised a muscle car tops out at 130-135 mph despite the big engine. The coefficient of drag AND the frontal area are both pretty terrible.
You and I had this discussion before but I'm adding it here for @SFBadger96 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=51) :
The last two classes of Battleships produced by the United States were the South Dakota Class and the Iowa Class.  The US built four SoDak's and four Iowa's.  Construction began on all eight prior to the US entry into WWII (mid-1939 through early-1941).  There were another two Iowa's planned but they were not laid down until after the US entered the war and they were never completed.  

Anyway, the relevant issue here is speed.  Both the Iowa's and the SoDak's had a main armament of nine 16" guns.  To be fair, the Iowa's 16" guns were somewhat better as they were 50 caliber rather than 45 caliber for the SoDak's (this refers to barrel length as a function of diameter so the Iowa's barrels were 800" [16*50] while the SoDak's were 720" [16*45].  The ships also had more-or-less equivalent armor protection schemes and an identical secondary battery of 20 5" guns.  

The major difference between the two classes was that the Iowa's were a bit faster at 33kn compared to 27.5kn for the SoDak's.  That 5.5kn increase in speed came at a tremendous cost.  The Iowa's had 212,000 hp and weighed 48k tons while the SoDak's had 130,000 hp and weighed 35k tons.  The bulk of the extra weight was for the extra machinery to make all that additional power and the expanded hull size to fit all that extra machinery.  So basically the USN paid 13k tons for 5.5 kn.  

In theory this was needed because the Essex class carriers were also capable of 33kn so the Iowa's could keep up with them and the SoDak's couldn't but as a practical matter carrier escorts needed AA guns and the 16" guns of the Iowa's and SoDak's were worthless in that role.  It was the 5" secondary guns that provided AA coverage and that could be had SUBSTANTIALLY cheaper by building CVL's and DD's.  

In the actual event, the primary use of the Battleships was bombarding targets on land and for that the USN would have been much better off with five SoDak's than four Iowa's simply because 45 16" guns are better than 36 16" guns.  

Much like your Dart/Muscle Car example, the same is true for BB's.  Increasing top end takes a LOT of HP as @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) explained.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 23, 2024, 02:45:53 PM
The Iowa class was also quite a bit longer which helps with top speed.

Those muscle cars in the main did not have the aerodynamic downforce to really get much top end without flying, and speedometers back then were VERY optimistic above about 80 mph.  They might read 120 when you were really going 95.  And they often were geared for acceleration with high ratio rear ends, like 411s.

I saw the Corvette ZR1 hit over 230 mph, the rear wing develops a very high level of downforce to keep it from flying.  The shape of a car is similar to the shape of an aircraft wing and they will definitely "fly", and then bad things happen.  Cars today have of course much better tires and at least some interest in aerodynamics.  I recall my old 2005 CTS was rated at 147 mph top end.  I had it to around 100 a few times and it felt pretty stable.

The CTS V I drove at COTA was hitting around 140 on the back stretch, I wasn't looking down I can tell you, but it was very stable.  And that's a four door.  That was pretty fun, I'd do it again.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 23, 2024, 02:50:15 PM
Scientists Cracked Open A Rock—and Found 2-Billion-Year-Old Microbes Inside (popularmechanics.com) (https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/environment/a62544952/two-billion-year-old-microbes/?utm_campaign=trueanthemFBPOP&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwY2xjawGGJIxleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHUwwYANUzqgo_xC6CsGAiIGco08NLl-Eu5Uk6DFbHg_tMTP4XYXC6MUhsw_aem_Ig0FjRbANcKxlTf7dE_mwQ)



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 24, 2024, 07:24:13 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Annie Edson Taylor, 63, Goes Over Niagara Falls in a Barrel (1901)
Taylor was a dance instructor who sought fame and fortune by attempting to become the first person to survive a trip over Niagara Falls in a barrel. Days before her attempt, a cat was sent over the falls to test the strength of Taylor's barrel and survived the plunge uninjured. On her 63rd birthday, Taylor was set adrift in her barrel and went over the falls. Shortly thereafter, the barrel was pulled from the water and Taylor emerged—mostly unharmed.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 24, 2024, 06:00:26 PM
After 53 years, one of NASCAR's most durable controversies has come to an end.

Hall of Fame driver Bobby Allison has been declared the winner of the 1971 Myers Brothers 250 at Bowman Gray Stadium in Winston-Salem, N.C., the stock car racing governing body announced Wednesday afternoon.


"NASCAR CEO and chairman Jim France and vice chairman Mike Helton visited Allison on Wednesday to inform him of the recognition," Zack Albert wrote on NASCAR's website.

The race—the final Cup Series race to date at one of racing's most hallowed venues—had officially had no winner for 53 years. The lack of resolution sprung from a dispute over the make of Allison's car, a Ford Mustang that was perceived to give him an unfair advantage over competitors on the quarter-mile track.

In '71, NASCAR briefly experimented with races involving both Grand National cars and the pony cars of the short-lived Grand American series. The Myers Brothers 250 was one such race, and Allison's pony-car victory left runner-up Richard Petty fuming.


Petty filed a complaint with NASCAR that resulted in Allison losing the victory. Regaining it allows him to move ahead of Darrell Waltrip for sole possession of fourth place on the Cup Series's all-time wins list.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 25, 2024, 08:23:58 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

George III Becomes King of Great Britain and Ireland (1760)
George III ascended the throne at the age of 22, during the Seven Years' War. The war had put England in financial distress, and George supported raising funds through taxation of the American colonies. This policy proved disastrous for him, as it provoked the American Revolution and led him to be blamed in part for losing the colonies. Later in life, George's mental health declined, and his son acted as regent after 1811.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 25, 2024, 12:08:26 PM
This isn't entirely accurate, but you get the idea.

(https://i.imgur.com/b9THBBS.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 25, 2024, 10:19:44 PM
The famous Diving Elk of Sioux City. From about 1900 to 1905 one of the attractions you could find at Riverside Park were the Diving Elk. They would walk up to the top of this platform and proceed to dive head first into the muddy Big Sioux River! It was fun for the entire family! Lol. Not sure who the sick person was that taught these Elk how to do this or why they made it an attraction, but they did. This is a Sioux City Museum photo

(https://i.imgur.com/dgHrFyV.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 26, 2024, 10:55:53 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/wM5lS0K.png)

US counties without a McDonalds.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 26, 2024, 12:05:08 PM
South & North Dakota and Nebraska

winners!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 27, 2024, 01:40:46 AM
Marine Corp to Alcatrez
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/5nsaj9ozWQ0?feature=share
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 27, 2024, 07:28:10 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Italian Public Administrator Enrico Mattei Dies in Plane Crash (1962)
After World War II, Mattei was given the task of dismantling the Italian Petroleum Agency, a Fascist state enterprise. Instead, Mattei enlarged and reorganized it into the Ente Nazionale Idrocarburi (ENI), or National Fuel Trust. Under his direction, ENI developed large deposits of natural gas in Italy and negotiated important oil concessions in the Middle East. Mattei became a powerful figure in Italy before he died in a plane crash in 1962.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 27, 2024, 09:42:57 AM
The fall of the Carolingian Empire, which reached its height under Charlemagne in the early 9th century, unfolded gradually over the course of several generations and stemmed from both internal divisions and external pressures. Established by Charlemagne, or Charles the Great, the Carolingian Empire unified much of Western Europe under one ruler after centuries of fragmentation following the fall of the Western Roman Empire. However, after Charlemagne’s death in 814, his empire began to fragment, setting in motion events that would lead to its ultimate collapse.

Charlemagne's son, Louis the Pious, inherited the empire, but his reign was marked by internal strife and challenges in managing the empire's vast and culturally diverse territories. The real turning point came with the Treaty of Verdun in 843, which divided the empire among Louis’s three sons: Charles the Bald, Louis the German, and Lothair I. This division created three distinct kingdoms—West Francia, East Francia, and Middle Francia—severely weakening the once-unified empire. The Treaty of Verdun marked the beginning of the empire’s decline as these territories grew increasingly autonomous and rivalries between the heirs bred instability.
As the divided kingdoms grappled with their own internal challenges, they also faced growing external threats. Viking raids in the north, Saracen incursions in the Mediterranean, and Magyar invasions from the east put immense pressure on the empire. These invasions underscored the need for local protection and defense, which led to the rise of regional lords and the decline of central authority. The reliance on local lords for military support and security contributed to the growth of feudalism, a system that weakened the Carolingian dynasty’s direct control over the empire.

In East Francia, the Carolingian line eventually died out, giving rise to new ruling dynasties like the Ottonians, who formed the Holy Roman Empire. Meanwhile, West Francia saw the establishment of the Capetian Dynasty, which would later develop into the Kingdom of France. By the late 9th century, the Carolingian Empire had effectively disintegrated, replaced by smaller, independent kingdoms that would evolve into the distinct European nations of the Middle Ages.

The fall of the Carolingian Empire marked the end of attempts to unify Western Europe under a single rule, and it left a legacy of political fragmentation and regional power that would shape Europe’s feudal structure for centuries to come.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 27, 2024, 02:00:10 PM
 I recently learned that an unknown waltz by the eminent composer Chopin, written nearly 200 years ago, had been discovered in the vault of the Morgan Library & Museum in New York. It was unearthed in a collection of memorabilia, alongside postcards signed by Picasso and letters from Brahms and Tchaikovsky.
We published our exclusive story on the discovery today. And here’s a special treat: The superstar pianist Lang Lang recorded the waltz for The Times. You can watch his performance here (https://nl.nytimes.com/f/newsletter/isZfbDTpJEO0OOuec4rzVQ~~/AAAAAQA~/RgRpAKe5P0TbaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vMjAyNC8xMC8yNy9hcnRzL211c2ljL2Nob3Bpbi13YWx0ei1kaXNjb3ZlcnkuaHRtbD9jYW1wYWlnbl9pZD05JmVtYz1lZGl0X25uXzIwMjQxMDI3Jmluc3RhbmNlX2lkPTEzNzkyNyZubD10aGUtbW9ybmluZyZyZWdpX2lkPTE1MzM2ODkxMCZzZWdtZW50X2lkPTE4MTQ4OCZ1c2VyX2lkPThlNWQyYTJiNWU0OGE2OTY1NjE5MmNjM2FmMGE5MDBjVwNueXRCCmcSuSIeZ_D4CztSEWpjZG9vbTlAZ21haWwuY29tWAQAAAAD).
The story of the long-lost waltz starts at the Morgan on a late-spring day, when the curator and composer Robinson McClellan came across an unusual musical manuscript. The piece was moody and melancholic, and a conspicuous name was written across the top: Chopin.
McClellan took a photo on his iPhone so he could play the piece back at home on his electric piano. He also sent a photo to Jeffrey Kallberg, a Chopin scholar at the University of Pennsylvania.
“My jaw dropped,” Kallberg told me. “I knew I had never seen this before.”
In September, the Morgan’s experts invited me to view the manuscript, which they had authenticated by analyzing the paper, ink and musical style. It was much smaller than I had imagined — a pockmarked scrap about the size of an index card. Chopin had famously tiny penmanship, and he packed a lot into this little piece.
As an amateur pianist, I grew up adoring Chopin’s music. His waltzes, nocturnes, ballades and mazurkas are a dreamy realm of nostalgia, longing, suffering and bliss. He is still one of music’s most beloved figures. (His heart, pickled in a jar of alcohol, is encased in a church in Warsaw.)
After viewing the manuscript, I spent weeks immersed in Chopin’s world. I studied his scores, letters and sketches, and listened to recordings of his waltzes, searching for clues about the unusual piece found at the Morgan. I tracked down the previous owners of the manuscript: a Connecticut family that was not aware of its importance. I delighted in working through the waltz in a practice room near Lincoln Center, wondering if anyone nearby had any idea what I was playing.
Newly discovered works are rare in classical music, especially for Chopin, who was less prolific than other composers. We knew that readers would want to hear the waltz, but we needed a pianist who could do it justice. I immediately thought of Lang Lang, one of the biggest stars in classical music, whom I first met in 2016 when I was a China correspondent for The Times in Beijing.
I messaged Lang on WeChat, asking if he’d be interested in being part of an “unusual story.”
“What kind of unusual story (https://fonts.gstatic.com/s/e/notoemoji/15.1/263a_fe0f/32.png)(https://fonts.gstatic.com/s/e/notoemoji/15.1/263a_fe0f/32.png),” he wrote back.
I told him about the newly discovered Chopin and sent him the score, which he played through before a rehearsal in San Francisco.
“Wow this is a great piece!” he said in a voice message. “I’m very surprised. It’s very Chopin. It must be Chopin. It sounds very much like Chopin, with a very dramatic darkness turning into a positive thing. It’s beautiful.”
While Lang was in New York earlier this month to open Carnegie Hall’s season, I met up with him at Steinway Hall in Manhattan to record the waltz. He adjusted his interpretation after each take, changing the tempo and refining the quiet opening notes. He joked that the piece sounded like the beginning of a Woody Allen movie.
Sitting near the piano, I asked him why people should care about this waltz, 175 years after Chopin’s death.
“This level of music making — it always touches us the deepest,” he said. “To have a new work by this level of great artist — we’re just so lucky. Just enjoy it.”

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 28, 2024, 08:47:27 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/90lmo1T.jpeg)

GE J-79 engines from F4s.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 28, 2024, 09:21:47 AM
Liver-Eating Johnson

John "Liver-Eating" Johnson was a so-called "mountain man" of the 19th-century American West. After fighting in the Mexican-American War, the hunter and trapper traveled west to Wyoming, where he became a legend. According to some accounts, Johnson's Native American wife was killed by members of the Crow tribe in 1847. He spent the next 20 years exacting his revenge, earning his nickname by supposedly cutting out and eating the liver of each man he killed.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 29, 2024, 07:26:38 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Black Tuesday (1929)
In the 1920s, the US stock market expanded rapidly and reached a peak in August 1929, when prices began to decline while speculation increased. On October 24, "Black Thursday," a record 12,894,650 shares were traded. Banks and investment companies bought large blocks of stock to stem the panic, but on October 29, "Black Tuesday," 16 million shares were traded and prices collapsed.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on October 29, 2024, 10:09:05 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/sTD4PTu.jpeg)

ATL 1963 it says.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 29, 2024, 10:29:26 AM
There are many stories of how Burnt Store Road got its name. Here is the one that seems to be the most popular, and as you can see, has special meaning for Burnt Store Marina, The Golf & Activity Club, and Cass Cay Restaurant.


At one time the area was inhabited by the Calusa Indians, who survived on the abundance of indigenous fish and wildlife, plus whatever they could grow in the warm climate. There were more than 2,000 Indians in the area. Then came the Spaniards, headed by Ponce de Leon, whose attempt to settle was thwarted. He and many of his men lost their lives as the result of wounds received during the skirmish to establish themselves in the area. That was just the beginning of the settlers’ invasion of the Indian territory. Having lost their land where they were once free to hunt and raise vegetables, most of the Indians left little by little, though a few remained.
Records show that there was a little band of Indians living approximately twenty miles north of the Caloosahatchee River, which would put them approximately in the Burnt Store area. The leader of the Indian settlement was Billy Bowlegs, who led an attack during the Seminole massacre in 1839. Despite being pushed back into limited territory, the Indians lived peacefully side by side with the settlers. It was the settlers who built the trading post that not only served as the town’s general store, but also as a gathering place for everything from gossip to politics. The Indians, however, didn’t socialize with the settlers, nor they with the Indians……except, that is for Old Salty. Old Salty resided alone in a shack down by the harbor and was known to mind his own business. He was someone who enjoyed his privacy; however, he and Billy Bowlegs managed to get along, learn from each other and become good friends.
The area was enjoying a peaceful existence, when young Lt. Gil Hartstuff arrived with a band of surveyors. Feeling the power of his new position, he paraded around over Indian Territory as though he owned it, asking permission from no one, and not caring what damage he did. Old Salty became concerned about what Lt. Hartstuff was doing and brought it to the young officer’s attention. Salty warned of raising his Indian friends’ ire, but the Lieutenant just laughed it off, pegging Salty for nothing more than an ”old coot”.
The rest of the settlers didn’t much care what happened to the Indians – they would have been just as happy if the Indians left. “If we’re going to lose our land,” proclaimed Billy Bowlegs, “we won’t do it without fighting for it”! So one dark night, as the legend goes, Billy and his little band stormed the Trading Post and set it on fire. Some of the surveyors spotted the Indians on the run and fired at them, killing some. Many of the settlers lost their lives in the fire.
Billy and a few of his followers managed to get away, but knew they had to leave the area. Old Salty hid them for a few days until the situation cooled down, then the two old friends said goodbye. Old Salty stayed on in the village, as the people accepted him more and listened to his wisdom, knowing that if they had listened before, many would not have lost their lives. The Trading Post was never rebuilt, but from that day on the road leading to it was known as Burnt Store Road.


Today, the facilities of Burnt Store Marina, along with the Golf & Activity Club, supply more needs than those who frequented the old trading post ever thought possible. With the splendor of the secluded 525 wet slips & 300 dry slips in the Marina, along with 27 holes of golf, the athletic club, tennis courts, pools, plus the excellent dining at Cass Cay Restaurant, Linkside Café, and the Ship’s Store, “The Trading Post”, the legend more than continues – it gets better with each visit.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 29, 2024, 10:33:06 AM
Cass Cay Home (https://www.casscayrestaurant.com/)

LINKSIDE CAFE @ BSMCC - Burnt Store Marina CC (https://www.bsgac.org/dining/)

Trading Post (2) Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/tradingpostbsm/)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 29, 2024, 12:16:10 PM
Hidden perks
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tt55fNrmdx0?t=6&feature=share
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 30, 2024, 11:37:17 AM
50 YEARS AGO THIS WEEK. Vikings QB Fran Tarkenton became the first quarterback in NFL history to ever be ejected from a game.

The normally unflappable Tarkenton got tossed after celebrating a touchdown by spiking the ball off the helmet of an opponent who cheap-shotted him. The opponent then punched Tark's helmet, breaking two fingers in the process. The opponent got ejected, too.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 30, 2024, 11:40:26 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Soviet Union Detonates "Tsar Bomba" (1961)
"Tsar Bomba" was the nickname of a hydrogen bomb detonated by the Soviet Union in 1961 that remains the most powerful nuclear weapon ever detonated. The bomb had a yield of 50 megatons, a force equivalent to 1,400 times the combined power of the two nuclear weapons dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in World War II—or approximately 1.4 percent of the power output of the Sun. The resulting seismic shock was measurable even on its third passage around the Earth.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on October 30, 2024, 01:11:42 PM
50 YEARS AGO THIS WEEK. Vikings QB Fran Tarkenton became the first quarterback in NFL history to ever be ejected from a game.
I remember watching that,he did get popped but I forget by what player or team,it was pretty funny because you didn't expect it
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 30, 2024, 01:14:11 PM
I never missed a play by the Vikes back then 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on October 30, 2024, 04:41:45 PM
I remember Fran Tarkenton.  He was that dude on "That's Incredible!"

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 30, 2024, 05:29:21 PM
I remember Fran the Man being WAY better than Roger the Dodger
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2024, 08:52:39 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Martin Luther Posts His Ninety-Five Theses (1517)
According to the traditional account, Luther posted his Ninety-Five Theses on the door of the castle church in Wittenberg, Germany—an event now seen as the beginning of the Protestant Reformation. Written in response to the selling of indulgences to pay for the rebuilding of St. Peter's Basilica in Rome, the theses represented an implicit criticism of papal policy and aroused much controversy.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on October 31, 2024, 09:15:24 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Soviet Union Detonates "Tsar Bomba" (1961)
"Tsar Bomba" was the nickname of a hydrogen bomb detonated by the Soviet Union in 1961 that remains the most powerful nuclear weapon ever detonated. The bomb had a yield of 50 megatons, a force equivalent to 1,400 times the combined power of the two nuclear weapons dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in World War II—or approximately 1.4 percent of the power output of the Sun. The resulting seismic shock was measurable even on its third passage around the Earth.
The Soviet Union of the 1950's-1980's did some amazing things, even with their dystopian malfunctioning bureaucracy.  First in space, first spacewalk, first (and only) to land on Venus.  For some reason, the Soviets were infatuated with Venus, while we leaned towards Mars and the outer planets.  
The word was (and maybe still is) that their missiles/navigation systems were less accurate, so they made their bombs more powerful to compensate.  

They also had some bad messups.  Chernobyl, Sub Krusk, and massive environmental pollution in places.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on October 31, 2024, 11:53:17 AM
I remember Fran the Man being WAY better than Roger the Dodger
Oh really?  So he must have won at least 3 Superbowls then, right?  'Cause Roger won 2, so Fran had to have won 3 or more, right?

I mean, surely he's not one of those clowns that went 0-3 in the Superbowl, right?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on October 31, 2024, 12:42:01 PM
right
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 04, 2024, 07:31:59 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Iran Hostage Crisis Begins (1979)
In 1979, an Islamic revolutionary government overthrew Muhammad Reza Shah Pahlevi of Iran. When the exiled shah was admitted to the US for medical treatment, a crowd of about 500 seized the US embassy in Tehran, demanding the shah's extradition. US President Jimmy Carter halted Iranian oil imports and froze Iranian assets, but his diplomatic initiatives proved fruitless, and a US rescue mission failed. Fifty-two hostages were held for 444 days until the end of the crisis in 1981.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 04, 2024, 07:37:43 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/QCJ8TE2.png)

In 1955, Joe Rogers Sr. and Tom Forkner, two neighbors from Avondale Estates, Georgia, co-founded Waffle House. The first restaurant opened over Labor Day weekend in 1955. Designed as a 24/7 sit-down eatery, its name paid homage to waffles, the most popular menu item. Waffle House expanded swiftly across Georgia and surrounding states. Its signature 'Yellow Sign' became recognizable in many states. With over 2,000 locations today.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 04, 2024, 07:46:07 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/JLcvjnK.png)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 05, 2024, 07:18:56 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Gunpowder Plot Is Thwarted (1605)
Angered by King James I's refusal to grant more religious toleration to Catholics, a group of conspirators plotted to blow up Parliament and kill the king. The plot was discovered, and conspirator Guy Fawkes was arrested in a cellar under the palace at Westminster, where he had concealed 36 barrels of gunpowder. Under torture, he revealed the names of his coconspirators, and they were all either killed while resisting arrest or executed in 1606.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 05, 2024, 08:07:32 AM
On this Day in History
1900 Martin Dies, American politician is born in Colorado City, Texas (d. 1972) How's that for Weird History

1900 Under US military control since the end of the Spanish–American War in 1898, Cuba now calls its own constitutional convention

1905 Roald Amundsen reaches Eagle City, Alaska, to announce to the world by telegraph his is the first expedition, in 400 years of attempts, to complete a Northwest Passage

1911 Roy Rogers [Leonard Stye], American cowboy actor and country music singer, born in Cincinnati, Ohio (d. 1998)

1912 Democrat candidate Woodrow Wilson is elected President of the United States, defeating Republican incumbent William Howard Taft and Progressive candidate Theodore Roosevelt

1913 Ludwig III crowned king of Bavaria

1913 Vivien Leigh,English actress (Gone With The Wind; A Streetcar Named Desire), born in Darjeeling, Bengal Presidency, India(d.1967)

1917 Gen Pershing & US troops see action on Western Front for 1st time

1925 British secret agent Sidney Reilly ('Ace of Spies') is executed in a forest near Moscow by the OGPU, the secret police of the Soviet Union

1935 Parker Brothers launches the board game Monopoly

Nov 5,1939 - Germany,A plot to arrest or even kill Adolf Hitler, hatched by of his most senior military staff, collapsed. Led by General Franz Halder, the architect of the invasion of Poland, many Generals were appalled by Hitler's plans to continue the conflict by invading Belgium and the Netherlands and feared that the adventure would founder in another Great War quagmire.

1940 Franklin D. Roosevelt is re-elected President of the United States for an unprecedented third term, defeating Republican candidate Wendell Willkie

1943 The USAAF 306th Bomb Group flying from RAF Thurleigh launched a bombing raid against the rail yards and oil facilities at Gelsenkirchen, Germany. 

1944 The USAAF 306th Bomb Group flying from RAF Thurleigh launched a bombing raid against Frankfurt, Germany.(seems like The USAAF 306th Bomb Group liked to attack on this day)

1947 Peter Noone, British pop-rock singer, sometimes known as "Herman" (Herman's Hermits - "I'm Into Something Good"; "Mrs. Brown, You've Got A Lovely Daughter"), born in Davyhulme, Lancashire, England

1952 Bill Walton American Basketball Hall of Fame center, Portland Trail Blazers, Boston Celtics, born in La Mesa, California (d.2024)

1959 Bryan Adams,Canadian Juno and Grammy Award-winning singer-songwriter ("Heaven"; "Run To You"), born in Kingston, Ontario


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 06, 2024, 05:28:33 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Jefferson Davis Elected President of the Confederate States of America (1861)
As a US senator, Davis advocated states' rights but tried to discourage secession. Still, when Mississippi seceded, he resigned from the Senate, was appointed major general of the Mississippi militia, and soon was chosen to be president of the Confederacy. After Confederate General Robert E. Lee surrendered without Davis's approval in 1865, Davis fled Richmond, Virginia, the Confederate capital, hoping to continue the fight until he could secure better terms from the North.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Temp430 on November 06, 2024, 07:21:48 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Jefferson Davis Elected President of the Confederate States of America (1861)
As a US senator, Davis advocated states' rights but tried to discourage secession. Still, when Mississippi seceded, he resigned from the Senate, was appointed major general of the Mississippi militia, and soon was chosen to be president of the Confederacy. After Confederate General Robert E. Lee surrendered without Davis's approval in 1865, Davis fled Richmond, Virginia, the Confederate capital, hoping to continue the fight until he could secure better terms from the North.

Forgot to mention that Davis was a Democrat before he was a traitor.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 06, 2024, 07:30:56 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Jefferson Davis Elected President of the Confederate States of America (1861)
WOW if the ditz got in this would have been a bad omen/precursor
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 06, 2024, 10:33:32 AM
While we’re based in Wyoming, Idaho[/iurl] is a short jaunt away and we here at See Jackson Hole also love covering our close and wonderful neighbors to the west. So, while you pack your bags, here's a few things to mull over about the state...
Boise means "wooded" in French, since the earliest fur trappers, being French-Canadians, exclaimed the phrase with joy upon finding the spot with a great river.
The state motto is "Esto Perpetua", which means "It is forever".
The Salmon River is the longest free-flowing river that heads and flows within a single state
Idaho has a state horse, the Appaloosa, and state fish, the prized cutthroat trout. It also has a state fruit...the huckleberry!
The Center of the Universe is found there, in Wallace, population 800. Even has a manhole cover marking the exact spot.
It's called the Gem State because of the 72 types of precious and semi-precious stones found here, including possibly the largest diamond ever found in the US!
One of the world's rare blue football fields can be found at BSU, nicknamed the Smurf Turf.
The first alpine chairlift was used in Sun Valley, and in 1936 the fee was 25 cents per ride.
Idaho's Hell's Canyon is the deepest gorge in the US, deeper even than the Grand Canyon. And Shoshone Falls near Twin Falls drops 52 feet farther than Niagara Falls.
And Idaho has the largest hops farm in the world, Elk Mountain Farms, which grows its crop for Anheuser-Busch.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 07, 2024, 04:14:55 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/UZFauee.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Temp430 on November 07, 2024, 07:39:33 AM
That's Wilt, right?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 07, 2024, 07:52:23 AM
Wilt, the summer before his last year in HS, he parked cars at a CC.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 07, 2024, 08:16:41 AM
How the hell did he get into that little car?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 07, 2024, 11:11:57 AM
1811 Battle of Tippecanoe: General William Henry Harrison defeats the Native Americans of the Tecumesh Confederation

1872 Cargo ship Mary Celeste sails from Staten Island for Genoa, mysteriously found abandoned four weeks later
Protesters scatter in Petrograd shortly after Russian government troops opened fireRed October

1917 October Revolution in Russia; Lenin and the Bolsheviks seize power, capture the Winter Palace and overthrow the Provisional Government 


1943 Last scoreless tie in the NFL, Detroit Lions 0, NY Giants 0

2000 Controversial US presidential election between George W. Bush and Al Gore is inconclusive; the result in Bush's favor is eventually decided by the Supreme Court

2020 Former Vice President Joe Biden is declared the winner of the US presidential race four days after the US election, defeating sitting President Donald Trump

1954 Cleveland Browns' Chet Hanulak sets club record with 7 punt returns & win by their largest margin of victory (59) beating Wash 62-3
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: SFBadger96 on November 07, 2024, 04:29:14 PM
Not weird history, but history for the weekend:
November 9, 1938: Krystallnacht (night of broken glass), which is one of the major markers of the escalating terror the Nazis subjected Jewish people to.
Actually lots of German history in this date: the Kaiser abdicated (1918), and East Germany opens its gates to the west (1989).
November 10: the Marine Corps' birthday in a bar in Philadelphia (1775), and the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald (1975), one of the most recent major shipwrecks in the US.
November 11: Veterans'/Remembrance Day; the end of the shooting in World War I (1918).
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on November 07, 2024, 04:56:04 PM
How the hell did he get into that little car?
(https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-16-2015/kBRtcV.gif)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 08, 2024, 10:39:22 AM
Lucky Flight
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/NKD_i_aFXBE?feature=share
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 08, 2024, 01:24:53 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

John F. Kennedy Defeats Richard Nixon for US Presidency (1960)
In 1960, Kennedy, a US senator, earned the Democratic nomination for president. In the campaign that followed, he engaged in a series of televised debates with his Republican opponent, Richard M. Nixon. After a vigorous campaign managed by his brother Robert F. Kennedy and aided financially by his father, Joseph P. Kennedy, he defeated Nixon by a narrow popular margin. At 43, he became the youngest person ever, and the first Catholic, elected president.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 10, 2024, 08:20:27 AM
Galen Clark

In 1853, after being told by doctors that he had just six months to live, Galen Clark moved to Yosemite National Park. There, he defied medical expectations and lived for another 57 years. During this time, he discovered the Mariposa Grove of Giant Sequoia trees and dedicated himself to exploring the park and teaching others about the massive trees. His passion for the area earned him his reputation as guardian of the park and led to the passing of the Yosemite Grant
(https://i.imgur.com/DZj7DPY.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 10, 2024, 09:12:48 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/sHzQQbk.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 10, 2024, 09:22:01 AM
doesn't look 249 years old
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 11, 2024, 01:49:58 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/aBneMVr.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 11, 2024, 02:19:34 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/nmRAH9l.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 11, 2024, 05:34:41 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6174
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 11, 2024, 06:01:13 PM
I mean like everyone know's that,sheesh
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 12, 2024, 08:03:19 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/zGVGQsY.png)

I drove this every work day.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 12, 2024, 08:55:53 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/PNhztKO.png)

PreCivil War US rail system.  Note the E-W gap in Alabama, that turned into a thing in the war.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 12, 2024, 09:56:17 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Ramzi Yousef Found Guilty of Masterminding 1993 World Trade Center Bombing (1997)
In 1993, terrorists detonated a car-bomb in an underground garage of the World Trade Center complex in New York City, killing six, injuring more than a thousand, and causing more than $300 million in damage. In all, ten militant Islamist conspirators were convicted of involvement in the bombing, including Yousef, who also bombed an important Shia shrine in Iran in 1994 and later planned a large-scale terrorist scheme that included killing the pope.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 12, 2024, 12:27:26 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/qdG7IKl.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 12, 2024, 01:04:17 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/MJF1eEU.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 12, 2024, 02:35:13 PM
If you're not Dutch
you're not much
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 12, 2024, 02:55:10 PM
Earl Burtz, owner of the Sad Monkey railroad in Palo Duro Canyon, models his conductor's hat circa 1965. The Sad Monkey was a miniature railroad that took visitors to the canyon on a two-mile long train ride while interpreters talked about the park's geology. The Sad Monkey got its name for a prominent mass of Trujillo sandstone at the southern extremity of Triassic Peak. When viewed from the proper perspective—and with the proper amount of imagination (and, perhaps, under the influence of certain libations, maybe) —this massive block of sandstone bore a striking resemblance to an aged and saddened monkey. I'm told, however, the geologic weathering has removed some of the features that caused it to be so named. The railroad ran from 1955-1996, when liability concerns forced it to shut down.

(https://i.imgur.com/TJfqQ5f.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 13, 2024, 09:18:31 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Two Libyans Indicted for Pan Am 103 Attack (1991)
In 1991, after a three-year investigation, US and UK authorities announced indictments against two Libyan intelligence officials in connection with the 1988 bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, which killed 270 people. During a trial held a decade later in the Netherlands, one of the defendants was found guilty and sentenced to life imprisonment.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 14, 2024, 06:04:07 AM
Silent Running 1972.

Pioneering and visionary science fiction film directed by Douglas Trumbull, starring Bruce Dern, Cliff Potts, Ron Rifkin, and Jesse Vint. The film also has 3 'drones' robots called Huey, Dewey and Louie played by Mark Persons, Cheryl Sparks/Steven Brown and Larry Whisenhunt respectively. Poignant and visually stunning the film explores themes of environmentalism and the value of life. Released in 1972, it was ahead of its time, delivering a powerful message about humanity's impact on the natural world. The film follows Freeman Lowell, a dedicated botanist played by Bruce Dern, who is tasked with maintaining a vast greenhouse aboard a spacecraft. When Silent Running hit theaters in 1972, audiences were less-than-enthusiastic about the somewhat dark, ecological, sci-fi survival drama, and it was regarded as being a failure at the box office. Now a revered cult classic it remains an oddity, with main attraction being the unusual and heart-rending relationship between Dern and his 3 robotic buddies.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 14, 2024, 08:52:21 AM
If you're not Dutch
you're not much
The WWII vets would like a word with you - if you can find one
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 14, 2024, 09:29:06 AM
The Siege of Sidney Street

Having killed several London policemen during a botched robbery in 1910, the members of a politically motivated gang of burglars went into hiding. When their location was revealed to authorities, 200 men were sent to surround the building. This prompted a wild gunfight now known as the Siege of Sidney Street. Though outmanned, the gang members possessed superior weapons and were only overtaken when their building caught fire. Why was Winston Churchill criticized for his role in the siege?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 14, 2024, 09:29:53 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Apalachin Meeting (1957)
The Apalachin Meeting was a summit of some 100 Mafiosi from the US, Canada, and Italy that was raided after their fancy cars and out-of-state license plates aroused the suspicions of law enforcement agents in Apalachin, New York. Fifty-eight Mafiosi, including bosses Carlo Gambino and Vito Genovese, were detained. Perhaps the most significant consequence of the raid was that it confirmed the American Mafia's existence, a fact that had long been denied
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 14, 2024, 11:03:16 AM
The reason for the denials was Lucky Luciano/Meyer Lansky had filmed/recorded J.Edgar's Gay trysts - they had mailed the evidence to him. It would  "portray an open homosexual relationship" between Hoover and his long-time male companion, Clyde Tolson".  In real life, all Washington knew was that the pair dined daily together, vacationed together, did everything but move in together, and the whispers flew.

When a magazine article in the 1930s referred to Hoover's "mincing" gait, and a diplomat commented on his "conspicuous perfume", Hoover struck back. He gathered derogatory information on the offending journalist, and asserted – falsely – that he did not use perfume. Real information on the Hoover-Tolson relationship surfaced only long after both men were dead,

That P.O.S.was a victim of his own tactics
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 14, 2024, 11:47:59 AM
1719 Leopold Mozart, German composer and teacher of his son Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, born in Augsburg (d. 1787)

Robert Fulton(1765-1815) American inventor and engineer (first commercial steamboat), born in Little Britain, Pennsylvania

1851 "Moby-Dick" by Herman Melville first published by Harper and Brothers in the US

1888 St Andrews Golf Club, Yonkers NY, opens with just 6 holes

1888 USC Trojans (then Methodists) play their 1st football game

1889 New York World reporter Nellie Bly (Elizabeth Cochrane) begins her attempt to surpass the fictitious journey of Jules Verne's Phileas Fogg by traveling around the world in under 80 days. She succeeds, finishing the trip in 72 days, 6 hours.

1896 Power plant at Niagara Falls begins operation

Joseph McCarthy (1909-1957) American Senator (Rep - Wisconsin) who claimed communists infiltrated the US government, born in Grand Chute, Wisconsin

1910 1st airplane flight from deck of a ship, Norfolk, Virginia

1922 BBC begins daily radio broadcasts from the 2LO transmitter at Marconi House

1929 Jimmy Piersall,( "I ain't crazy and I got the papers to prove it") American baseball outfielder (MLB All Star 1954, 56; his bipolar disorder subject book & film, "Fear Strikes Out"), born in Waterbury, Connecticut (d. 2017)

1940 During WW II, German planes destroy most of Coventry, England

1942 -Nov 15th) Japanese vs US sea battle at Savo-Island in Guadalcanal

1943 The Bears Sid Luckman passes for 7 touchdowns vs NY Giants (56-7)


1954 Condoleezza Rice 1st female African-American U.S. Secretary of State (2005-09), born in Birmingham, Alabama


1957 Milwaukee Brave Hank Aaron wins NL MVP

1964 Detroit Red Wings Gordie Howe sets NHL record 627th career goal

1965 US government sends 90,000 soldiers to Vietnam

1968 Yale University announces it is going co-educational

1970 Marshall U football team wiped out in DC-9 air crash at Kenova, West Virginia, killing 75

1973 Jim Palmer is named AL Cy Young winner

1982 Polish Solidarity chairman Lech Wałęsa freed

1985 Volcano Nevado del Ruiz Colombia erupts, 1000s killed

1986 US Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) imposes a record $100 million penalty against Ivan Boesky for insider trading

1993 Don Shula becomes the coach with the most wins in NFL history
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2024, 08:10:15 AM
November 14, 1779 - Surveyors Walker and Smith got off course while establishing the border between Kentucky and Tennessee in what is now Simpson County, Kentucky and Robertson County, Tennessee. A pronounced dip south creates a triangular shaped portion of land known as the “Simpson County Offset.”
The surveyors lost track of the proper location of the line due to cloudy weather which didn’t allow them to obtain correct astronomical observations. Walker also noted that, “there was some iron ore in that vicinity, which deflected the needle of the compass.” Clearly a mistake, surveyors were sent to the area again in the 1830s to redraw the line. However, they recommended leaving the border where it was and let each state yield its claim to the territory and both states agreed.
The matter was brought up again a couple of decades later by a Robertson County, Tennessee settler named Middleton who claimed that 101 acres of his property protruded into Kentucky and was properly part of Tennessee. Once again, surveyors were dispatched to the area in 1859 to settle the dispute. The surveyors agreed with Middleton and redrew the line around his property leaving a rectangular shaped protrusion northward into Kentucky. Some have suggested that a barrel of whiskey offered by Middleton helped the surveyors find the location of the haphazard border.

In the early 19th century, the land - more than 600 acres - was known as a dueling ground as it was considered a “no-man’s land” between Kentucky and Tennessee and where those who might be charged with illegally dueling could dispute which state in which the duel had taken place.

(https://i.imgur.com/OzWCQVk.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on November 15, 2024, 08:20:29 AM
There are many examples of the early deputies of the surveyor general getting off course. Makes it interesting for us when we have to retrace them.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 15, 2024, 11:37:51 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/7tRAXyT.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 16, 2024, 09:19:47 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/xT0xcx2.png)

USS ABSD-6 repairing USS South Dakota (BB-57) in Guam. Repairs are done in ABSD-6 dry dock after an accidental explosion on 6 May 1945, while rearming from USS Wrangell (AE-12).
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 16, 2024, 09:30:26 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Hoxne Hoard Found in Britain (1992)
In 1992, a tenant farmer in the village of Hoxne, England, lost a hammer and asked a friend for help finding it with a metal detector. While searching the field, the friend discovered silver utensils, gold jewelry, and numerous gold and silver coins. Archaeologists notified of the find excavated the site the next day and found what has become known as the Hoxne Hoard—the largest hoard of late Roman silver and gold discovered in Britain.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 16, 2024, 09:35:09 AM
Saw a special on PBS about that glad some poor dirt farmer found it
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 16, 2024, 09:37:16 AM
I might have to check the backyard

and the front yard
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 16, 2024, 09:41:29 AM
Have to wonder why it was left there in the 1st place. perhaps the roman centurian who buried it had the others that helped reasigned or murdered.Then something happened to him. Not in Rome's DNA to leave that behind
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 16, 2024, 09:53:28 AM
werewolves
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 16, 2024, 09:54:32 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/8hmt1Kb.png)

Chief John Smith (likely born between 1822 and 1826, though allegedly as early as 1784; died February 6, 1922) was an Ojibwe (Chippewa) Indian who lived in the area of Cass Lake, Minnesota. In 1920, two years before his death, he appeared as the main feature in a motion picture exhibition that toured the US, featuring aged Native Americans.At the ripe age of 137, White Wolf a.k.a. Chief John Smith is considered the oldest Native American to have ever lived, 1785–1922.

The Minneapolis Morning Tribune obituary says Ga-Be-Nah-Gewn-Wonce (variously known as Kay-bah-nung-we-way, Sloughing Flesh, Wrinkled Meat or plain old — well, really old — John Smith) was reputed to be 137 years old when he died. Whatever his precise age, his well-lined face indicates a man who led a long and full life.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on November 16, 2024, 11:19:37 AM
That's what you should look like in the later yrs,dammit
This Day in History
1907 Oklahoma becomes the United States 46th state
1907 Burgess MeredithAmerican actor (Mr Novak, The Penguin in Batman, Rocky), born in Cleveland, Ohio
1924 Cleveland Bulldogs lose, 12-7 to Frankford Yellow Jackets at Dunn Field; ends 31-game undefeated streak; NFL and major-league football record
1926 New York Rangers ice hockey club first game; beat Montreal Maroons, 1-0 at Madison Square Garden, NYC
1939 Al Capone freed from Alcatraz jail
1957 Boson Celtics' center Bill Russell sets NBA record of 49 rebounds as Boston beats Philadelphia Warriors, 111-89 at Boston Gardens

1959 American golfer Corey Pavin, born in Oxnard, California

1961 United Kingdom limits immigration from Commonwealth countries
1962 SF Warriors center Wilt Chamberlain scores 73 points in 127-111 win over NY Knicks at Madison Square Garden
1964 Dwight Gooden American baseball pitcher, born in Tampa, Florida
1966 Dr Sam Sheppard freed by a jury after 9 years in jail
1966 Pittsburgh Pirates outfielder Roberto Clemente is named NL MVP
1967 Lisa Bonet, American actress, born in San Francisco, California
1973 US President Richard Nixon authorizes construction of the Alaskan pipeline
1974 NBA Milwaukee Bucks lose their team record 11th straight game, fallimg 92-89 to vhe visiting Cleveland Cavaliers
1976 Rick Barry (San Francisco), ends then longest NBA free throw streak of 60
1977 Rod Carew wins AL MVP award
1978 Eric Crouch, American football quarterback (Heisman Trophy 2001, U of Nebraska), born in Omaha, Nebraska
1985 President Reagan arrives in Geneva for a summit with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev
2018 Elevator falls down 84 floors when hoist rope breaks, all six people survive unharmed at John Hancock Center, Chicago
2021 Men's roller derby team settles dispute with MLB baseball team, allowing both to use Cleveland Guardians name
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 17, 2024, 11:33:56 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/h4RXfSx.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 20, 2024, 07:17:16 AM
“Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal,” Lincoln began. While the southern enslavers who were making war on the United States had stood firm on the Constitution’s protection of property—including their enslaved Black neighbors—Lincoln dated the nation from the Declaration of Independence.
 
The men who wrote the Declaration considered the “truths” they listed to be “self-evident”: “that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” But Lincoln had no such confidence. By his time, the idea that all men were created equal was a “proposition,” and Americans of his day were “engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure.”
Standing near where so many men had died four months before, Lincoln honored “those who here gave their lives that that nation might live.”

He noted that those “brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated” the ground “far above our poor power to add or detract.”

“It is for us the living,” Lincoln said, “to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced.” He urged the men and women in the audience to “take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion” and to vow that “these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.”


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Temp430 on November 20, 2024, 07:22:35 AM
A lot of political and legal people nowadays think the US Constitution is more akin to a can of 
Play-doh than a binding legal document.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 20, 2024, 07:25:18 AM
Those folks may be akin to "Sports Media Experts" in their opinions.  I personally view quite a few parts of the Constitution as being a bit vague, if not unclear, to me at all.

Reality is the Constitution is whatever SCOTUS says it is, at the time extant.

It doesn't even clearly confer the authority to interpret it to the Supreme Court.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 20, 2024, 11:48:33 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Whaling Ship Essex Rammed by Whale (1820)
In 1819, the whaling ship Essex left Massachusetts for the South Pacific to hunt sperm whales. On November 20, 1820, in an incident that would inspire Herman Melville's Moby-Dick, the Essex was rammed multiple times by a sperm whale and sank 2,000 miles (3,700 km) off the coast of South America. The crew took three small boats to a nearby island, but many soon set out again. Conditions in the boats worsened, and the sailors had to resort to cannibalism.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 21, 2024, 02:46:43 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/OmZkhYP.png)

Buford Dam 1956 before Lake Lanier was filled.  This was in the boonies back then.  I wonder if they cut those trees before filling the lake.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 21, 2024, 02:56:46 PM
I don't think they usually cut trees
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 21, 2024, 03:01:32 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First Permanent ARPANET Link Is Established (1969)
Funded by the US Advanced Research Projects Agency (ARPA), ARPANET was the first digital network that utilized packet switching, a method of data transmission. A revolutionary technology, it ultimately led to the creation of the modern Internet. The network's first permanent connection was made between computers at the University of California, Los Angeles, and the Stanford Research Institute. By 1983, more than 300 computers were connected.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 22, 2024, 09:09:04 AM
The first film ever made in Hollywood was D.W. Griffith’s 1910 In Old California, a biograph melodrama about a Spanish maiden (Marion Leonard) who has an illegitimate son with a man who later becomes governor of California. It was shot in two days.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 22, 2024, 10:50:10 AM
On November 18th, 1941, a group of German tank industry representatives visited the Eastern Front, where they inspected captured T-34 tanks. Coincidentally, on the same day the German Weapons Agency initiated the development of a new powerful tank gun. This gun was based on the 75 mm Pak 40, although it had to be shorter in order to fit it into a tank and ensure that its ammunition was small enough to handle within the confined space of a tank's turret.

The gun, named 7.5 cm KwK 40, was installed in the Pz.Kpfw.IV Ausf.F tank. This gave it a key advantage over the Pz.Kpfw.III, which had up until that point been Germany's main medium tank. The Pz.Kpfw.III couldn't fit the new gun, as a result of which it was equipped with the old short 75 mm gun and relegated to a support role, while the Pz.Kpfw.IV took the role of the main medium tank and held it until the end of the war.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 22, 2024, 10:17:18 PM
SCLT Explore History this week: Iron Riders Trail Virtual Tour

Join SCLT History Program Manager Kevin Knapp for the Iron Riders virtual tour. Follow the route taken by the Black soldiers of the 25th Infantry Regiment Bicycle Corps in 1897 when they traveled through Sheridan County on their way from Fort Missoula to St. Louis.

The Iron Riders earned their name from the heavy iron framed bicycles they rode, but also from their iron will in accomplishing a 1,900-mile journey over 41 days and five states. Hear the experience in the participants’ own words as interpreted by voice actors.


(https://i.imgur.com/vmxHYGy.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 23, 2024, 05:56:14 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/9eMJNps.png)

Downtown Atlanta 1950.  I posted this reflecting on how, back in the day, "we" had to go downtown to shop for anything aside from food.  We moved to a suburb in 1964 and this was still true, if I needed shoes, my mom took me downtown, usually to a store called Rich's, a department store.  Then malls sprung up (and later mostly died), then Walmart hit circa 1985 or so, I was gone by then.  

There is a strip mall not far from us that is busy all the time, parking lot full.  They do feature a Publix and a Kroger and CVS.  It's just interesting how one strip mall can survive and prosper while many others on the outskirts seem to be dying, especially the large malls.  One critique about where we live is lack of retail, which I don't miss much personally because I get stuff on line if I need anything now, usually.  My wife talks about it.  Women seem to like shopping, like most men I think, if I need something at a store, I go in with purpose get it and leave.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 23, 2024, 06:58:12 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/pjt1bb6.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 23, 2024, 08:05:31 AM
Still had those in my network in the 2000s

Only 20 years ago 

Pain in my ass.
Vandals loved em
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 23, 2024, 09:12:27 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Hijacking of EgyptAir Flight 648 (1985)
Minutes after taking off from an Athens airport on November 23, 1985, EgyptAir Flight 648 was hijacked by five Palestinian terrorists. The plane was forced to land in Malta, where authorities attempted to negotiate with the hijackers. The terrorists shot two Israelis and three Americans before Egyptian commandos launched a disastrous raid in which nearly 60 hostages were killed. Remarkably, three of the passengers shot by the terrorists survived.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 24, 2024, 09:05:45 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Charles Darwin's On the Origin of Species Is Published (1859)
Darwin, a British naturalist, formed the basis of his theories of evolution during his scientific survey expedition to South America aboard the HMS Beagle from 1831–1836. He developed his theory for more than 20 years before publishing it in his famous On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection in 1859. Darwin's controversial theory was quickly accepted in most scientific circles.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 24, 2024, 09:07:44 AM
The concept of evolution was widely accepted in scientific circles within a few years of the publication of Origin, but the acceptance of natural selection as its driving mechanism was much less widespread.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 24, 2024, 09:09:04 AM
The concept of evolution was widely accepted before Darwin published.   The core of his theory was/is natural selection as the mechanism.  There were other theories about how species evolved before Darwin.

Lamarck's theory of evolution, proposed by Jean-Baptiste Lamarck, states that organisms can pass on physical changes acquired during their lifetime to their offspring, meaning characteristics developed through use or disuse of an organ are inherited by the next generation; a famous example is the idea that a giraffe's neck lengthens over its life by stretching to reach high leaves, and this longer neck is then passed on to its offspring. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 24, 2024, 10:25:20 AM
Early Concepts of Evolution: Jean Baptiste Lamarck (https://evolution.berkeley.edu/the-history-of-evolutionary-thought/1800s/early-concepts-of-evolution-jean-baptiste-lamarck/)

Darwin (https://evolution.berkeley.edu/the-history-of-evolutionary-thought/1800s/natural-selection-charles-darwin-alfred-russel-wallace/) was not the first naturalist to propose that species changed over time into new species—that life, as we would say now, evolves. In the eighteenth century, Buffon (https://evolution.berkeley.edu/the-history-of-evolutionary-thought/pre-1800/old-earth-ancient-life-georges-louis-leclerc-comte-de-buffon/) and other naturalists began to introduce the idea that life might not have been fixed since creation. By the end of the 1700s, paleontologists had swelled the fossil collections of Europe, offering a picture of the past at odds with an unchanging natural world. And in 1801, a French naturalist named Jean Baptiste Pierre Antoine de Monet, Chevalier de Lamarck took a great conceptual step and proposed a full-blown theory of evolution.
Lamarck started his scientific career as a botanist, but in 1793 he became one of the founding professors of the Musee National d’Histoire Naturelle as an expert on invertebrates. His work on classifying worms, spiders, molluscs, and other boneless creatures was far ahead of his time.
Change through use and disuse
(https://evolution.berkeley.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/giraffenecks.jpg) (https://evolution.berkeley.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/giraffenecks.jpg)
Lamarck believed that the long necks of giraffes evolved as generations of giraffes reached for ever higher leaves.
Lamarck was struck by the similarities of many of the animals he studied, and was impressed too by the burgeoning fossil record. It led him to argue that life was not fixed. When environments changed, organisms had to change their behavior to survive. If they began to use an organ more than they had in the past, it would increase in its lifetime. If a giraffe stretched its neck for leaves, for example, a “nervous fluid” would flow into its neck and make it longer. Its offspring would inherit the longer neck, and continued stretching would make it longer still over several generations. Meanwhile organs that organisms stopped using would shrink.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 24, 2024, 01:18:08 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ZL30Hjl.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 24, 2024, 04:09:36 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/tqSIz6f.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 25, 2024, 08:08:30 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/ukchrYe.png)

1960s view of ATL.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 25, 2024, 08:51:06 AM
The Tennessee River, stretching about 652 miles (1,049 km), is the largest tributary of the Ohio River. It winds through the southeastern United States, carving its path through the Tennessee Valley.
Historically, the river was often called the Cherokee River, a nod to the Cherokee people whose homelands lay along its banks, particularly in East Tennessee and northern Alabama. One of its key tributaries, the Little Tennessee River, originates in Western North Carolina and northeastern Georgia, regions once home to numerous Cherokee towns.
The river's name, "Tennessee," is derived from the Cherokee town of Tanasi, which was situated on the Appalachian side of what is now Tennessee. This rich history ties the river to the cultural and geographical heritage of the Cherokee people.

(https://i.imgur.com/uiJno3a.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 25, 2024, 08:53:21 AM
The Little Tennessee River (known locally as the Little T) is a 135-mile (217 km) tributary of the Tennessee River (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_River) that flows through the Blue Ridge Mountains (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Ridge_Mountains) from Georgia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_(U.S._state)), into North Carolina (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Carolina), and then into Tennessee (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee), in the southeastern United States. It drains portions of three national forests— Chattahoochee (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chattahoochee_National_Forest), Nantahala (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nantahala_National_Forest), and Cherokee (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherokee_National_Forest)— and provides the southwestern boundary of the Great Smoky Mountains National Park (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Smoky_Mountains_National_Park).

Numerous dams were erected on the river in the 20th century for flood control (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_control) and hydropower generation. The river flows through five major impoundments: Fontana Dam (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fontana_Dam), Cheoah Dam (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheoah_Dam), Calderwood Dam (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calderwood_Dam), Chilhowee Dam (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilhowee_Dam), and Tellico Dam (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tellico_Dam), and one smaller impoundment, Porters Bend Dam.

In 1756 the English built Fort Loudoun (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Loudoun_(Tennessee)), located at the river's confluence with the Tellico River, for defenses during the French and Indian War (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_and_Indian_War). This was the name for the North American front of the Seven Years' War (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Years'_War) in Europe between the English and French. The fort has been reconstructed as an historic site. Two early American sites are located along the Little Tennessee— the Tellico Blockhouse (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tellico_Blockhouse), an outpost at the river's Nine Mile Creek confluence, and Morganton (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morganton,_Tennessee), a river port and ferry (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferry) town near modern Greenback (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenback,_Tennessee), which thrived in the early 19th century.[20] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Tennessee_River#cite_note-20) The Hazel Creek (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazel_Creek_(Great_Smoky_Mountains)) section of the Great Smoky Mountains National Park, located on the north shore of the river's Fontana Lake (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fontana_Lake) impoundment, was home to a substantial European-American Appalachian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachia) community in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.[21] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Tennessee_River#cite_note-21)

(https://i.imgur.com/cOgT321.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 25, 2024, 09:17:52 AM
In 1774, a young girl named Sarah Whitcher became the subject of a remarkable survival story in the wilderness of New Hampshire. At just six years old, Sarah wandered away from her home while out with her family, unknowingly becoming lost in the dense, untamed forest. Her disappearance prompted an extensive search by her community, but after several days, there was still no sign of her. Most presumed the worst, as the wilderness was unforgiving, and many feared the dangers that lurked within it.
Against all odds, Sarah survived for four days in the forest. The most unusual part of her ordeal was her encounter with a "large black dog," which, according to her own account, kept her warm throughout the cold nights. What makes this even stranger is that no dogs were known to live in the area, and the creature's true nature has remained a mystery. Some speculate it may have been a bear or another wild animal, but Sarah's description of the animal as a dog has kept her story steeped in intrigue.
When Sarah was finally found, she was unharmed, except for some cuts and bruises, and she spoke of the comfort she had found in the bear's den where she had taken refuge. Her tale of survival continues to captivate people to this day, raising questions about the possible intervention of the unknown animal and the mysterious connection between her and the wilderness that saved her.   


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 25, 2024, 10:21:12 AM
Germans back in Germany didn’t make goetta. The sausage derivative is an American specialty, specifically out of Cincinnati, Ohio. Families stretched their limited supply of meat by supplementing leftover animal scraps with steel-cut oats, which yielded a crispy exterior and a mushy middle to a well-cooked slice. Home cooks spiced the beef and/or pork batter, then molded it into a loaf. By the time the family sat down to sliced, fried, and plated goetta, the breakfast food was an unrecognizable version of whatever parts it was fashioned from.

Beginning in the late 1940s, families no longer had to fashion their own goetta—a factory opened that brought tubes to the masses. Today, Cincinnati locals use goetta in place of sausage, served with eggs and toast, or as a pizza topping. They also put it between bread, or use it in place of bread, topped with eggs. Goetta goes out much the way it comes into the world: made using whatever, then used to make whatever. To experience a full spread of goetta’s edible potential, check out Cincinnati’s annual summertime festival that honors the city staple.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 25, 2024, 11:04:29 AM
almost as good as Spam
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 25, 2024, 01:17:42 PM
In the spring of 1973, a historic moment unfolded on the busy streets of New York City, right along 6th Avenue. Two people strolled through the heart of Manhattan, and their walk would mark the start of a new era in communication technology. Jeanne Bauer, accompanied by John Mitchell, was holding a device that would change the world—a bulky but groundbreaking creation called the Motorola DynaTAC, the first-ever handheld mobile phone. This small step on the sidewalk marked a giant leap for technology, as the world saw, for the first time, the potential of a phone that could go wherever you went.
The DynaTAC, developed by Motorola, was unlike anything people had seen. Weighing almost 2.5 pounds and measuring about 10 inches tall, it was more like a small brick than the slim, pocket-sized devices we have today. But despite its size and some limitations (only 30 minutes of talk time and 10 hours to charge), this mobile phone was a marvel. Just imagine being able to make a call without a wire or landline tying you down—it was revolutionary! Though it wouldn’t be until a decade later that mobile phones became available for purchase, this demonstration hinted at a future where people could stay connected on the go.
At the heart of this development was John Mitchell, a brilliant Motorola engineer, who led the team that brought the DynaTAC to life. And standing with him was Jeanne Bauer, who would help introduce this invention to the world. Their demonstration was a powerful reminder that technology wasn’t just for the lab; it was meant to be part of our everyday lives.
This early step in mobile phone history, with Bauer and Mitchell showing the world what was possible, marked the beginning of the mobile phone era. Over the decades, phones would evolve, becoming smaller, more powerful, and more essential to our lives. Today, we can barely imagine a world without them, but it all began with that one walk down 6th Avenue and a vision for what the future could hold.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 26, 2024, 08:27:43 AM
Quantum physics is the branch of physics that deals with the behavior and properties of matter and energy at the smallest scales, where the classical laws of physics break down and new phenomena emerge.
In 1900, Max Planck proposed that the energy of electromagnetic radiation, such as light, is not continuous but discrete, meaning that it comes in packets or quanta. He derived a formula, known as Planck’s law, that describes the spectrum of blackbody radiation, which is the radiation emitted by a perfect absorber of heat. Planck’s law was the first quantum theory in physics, and Planck won the Nobel Prize in 1918 “in recognition of the services he rendered to the advancement of Physics by his discovery of energy quanta”.

In 1905, Albert Einstein used Planck’s hypothesis to explain the photoelectric effect, which is the emission of electrons from a metal surface when light shines on it. He showed that light behaves as a stream of particles, called photons, whose energy depends on their frequency. Einstein also proposed the special theory of relativity, which relates space and time in a new way and shows that mass and energy are equivalent. Einstein won the Nobel Prize in 1921 “for his services to Theoretical Physics, and especially for his discovery of the law of the photoelectric effect”.

In 1913, Niels Bohr introduced a quantum model of the atom, in which electrons orbit around a nucleus only at certain distances and can jump between them by absorbing or emitting photons. Bohr also proposed the correspondence principle, which states that quantum phenomena must agree with classical physics in the limit of large numbers. Bohr won the Nobel Prize in 1922 “for his services in the investigation of the structure of atoms and of the radiation emanating from them”.
In 1923, Louis de Broglie suggested that matter, like light, has both particle and wave properties, and that the wavelength of a particle is inversely proportional to its momentum. This idea was confirmed by experiments that showed the diffraction and interference patterns of electrons and other particles.

In 1925, Werner Heisenberg formulated the matrix mechanics, which is a mathematical framework for quantum physics that uses matrices to represent physical quantities and operators. Heisenberg also discovered the uncertainty principle, which states that there is a fundamental limit to how precisely one can measure certain pairs of physical quantities, such as position and momentum. Heisenberg won the Nobel Prize in 1932 “for the creation of quantum mechanics”.

In 1926, Erwin Schrödinger developed the wave mechanics, which is another mathematical framework for quantum physics that uses differential equations to describe the evolution of wave functions. Schrödinger also introduced the concept of superposition, which means that a quantum system can exist in a combination of two or more states until an observation collapses it into one definite state. Schrödinger won the Nobel Prize in 1933 “for the discovery of new productive forms of atomic theory”.
In 1927, Paul Dirac unified quantum mechanics and special relativity in a single equation, known as the Dirac equation, which describes the behavior of electrons and other spin -1/2 particles. Dirac also predicted the existence of antimatter, which are particles with opposite charge and spin to their normal counterparts. Dirac won the Nobel Prize in 1933 “for the discovery of new productive forms of atomic theory”.

In 1928, Wolfgang Pauli proposed the exclusion principle, which states that no two identical fermions (such as electrons) can occupy the same quantum state in an atom or a molecule. Pauli also introduced the concept of spin, which is a quantum property that gives particles a magnetic moment. Pauli won the Nobel Prize in 1945 “for the discovery of the Exclusion Principle”.
In 1935, Albert Einstein, Boris Podolsky, and Nathan Rosen published a paper that challenged the completeness and consistency of quantum mechanics. They proposed a thought experiment, known as the EPR paradox, that involved two entangled particles that share a quantum state and can affect each other instantaneously over any distance. They argued that this implied either hidden variables or spooky action at a distance, both of which contradicted classical physics.

In 1948, Richard Feynman developed a graphical method for calculating quantum effects using diagrams that represent interactions between particles and fields. These diagrams are called Feynman diagrams and are widely used in quantum field theory and particle physics. Feynman also contributed to the development of quantum electrodynamics (QED), which is a quantum theory of electromagnetism that explains phenomena such as light scattering and electron-positron annihilation. Feynman won the Nobel Prize in 1965 “for their fundamental work in quantum electrodynamics”.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 26, 2024, 09:59:06 PM
A total of 928 prisoners tried to escape from Auschwitz, including 878 men and 50 women. Of these, 196 successfully escaped, and most of them lived to see the end of the war.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 26, 2024, 10:00:49 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

University of Notre Dame Is Founded (1842)
Located in Notre Dame, Indiana, the University of Notre Dame was established and opened in 1842 and chartered in 1844. Famous for its football team, it has a noted law school and computing center as well as laboratories for research in botany, radiation, geology, metallurgy, and engineering. It also operates important research institutes in the humanities. The school was founded by French priests and was originally given the name L'Université de Notre Dame du Lac,
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 27, 2024, 07:23:10 AM
How Was the Great Pyramid Built? | NOVA | PBS (https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/how-was-the-great-pyramid-built/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR13p144NUXIHwhT8s3HzBYHvlIDF9-PcafwUMKdrITVrJOzFpUJCyqSvUE_aem_J45d1pw37BaVCDFLJWPDEA)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 27, 2024, 08:24:22 AM
Two enormous gyroscopes being installed in the USS Henderson as a roll stabilizing system during its construction in April 1917 at the Philadelphia Navy Yard in World War 1.
The Henderson, a transport of 80 ton displacement, was the first large ship to be gyroscopically stabilized to prevent the ship from rolling from side to side with ocean swells.
The gyros, built by Sperry Rand, consist of two 25 ton, 9 ft diameter flywheels which during operation are spun at 1100 RPM in opposite directions by 75 HP AC electric motors.
Each gyro case is mounted on a vertical bearing which can be turned by a 75 HP servo motor. When a small sensor gyro on the ship's bridge sensed the ship roll, it ordered the servo motor to rotate the gyros about the vertical axis in a direction so the gyro's precession would oppose the ship's roll.
During trials they were able to keep the ship roll down to 3 degrees in the roughest seas.
This technology was replaced by roll stabilizer fins and is not used today.

(https://i.imgur.com/PhehrlT.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 27, 2024, 09:04:30 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Harvey Milk and George Moscone Are Assassinated (1978)
After gaining a following as a leader of San Francisco's gay community, Milk was elected to the city's Board of Supervisors in 1977, becoming one of the first openly gay elected officials in US history. In 1978, he and Moscone, the city's mayor, were shot and killed in City Hall by Dan White, a former city supervisor. White's conviction on the less serious charge of voluntary manslaughter sparked riots in the city. What now infamous defense did White's attorneys present at his murder trial?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 28, 2024, 09:16:34 AM
A Thanksgiving debate may be indirectly responsible for the existence of Israel. Ahead of the 1947 holiday, the United Nations was debating a plan to divide Palestine, a British-administered territory, into two sovereign states — one for Jews, one for Palestinian Arabs. The proposal seemed likely to fail. Arab and Muslim-majority countries opposed it, and much of Europe and Latin America was ambivalent.

But when the U.N.’s American hosts called a Thanksgiving recess, advocates for Israel began a furious lobbying campaign. They won over Haiti, the Philippines, Liberia and France, and the partition plan passed on Saturday. “On what remote, and often irrelevant, factors historical decisions may sometimes depend,” one negotiator later marveled (https://nl.nytimes.com/f/a/AKeswLYXBCN4ViSxx-A2FQ~~/AAAAAQA~/RgRpKttXP0TqaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vMTk4Mi8xMS8yMS9tYWdhemluZS90aGUtcGFydGl0aW9uLW9mLXBhbGVzdGluZS0zNS15ZWFycy1hZ28uaHRtbD9jYW1wYWlnbl9pZD05JmVtYz1lZGl0X25uXzIwMjQxMTI4Jmluc3RhbmNlX2lkPTE0MDgzNiZubD10aGUtbW9ybmluZyZyZWdpX2lkPTE1MzM2ODkxMCZzZWdtZW50X2lkPTE4NDM0MiZ1c2VyX2lkPThlNWQyYTJiNWU0OGE2OTY1NjE5MmNjM2FmMGE5MDBjVwNueXRCCmdGV1ZIZ2pvFKNSEWpjZG9vbTlAZ21haWwuY29tWAQAAAAD) about the holiday’s role. (Ultimately, Arab states rejected partition, and Palestinian statehood is still debated today.)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 28, 2024, 09:18:37 AM
In 1939, President Franklin Roosevelt moved up the traditional Thanksgiving Day by a week to stimulate holiday shopping and boost the economy. The move prompted a national debate (https://nl.nytimes.com/f/a/wgOs8-bPhiHLuQh3i-K8eQ~~/AAAAAQA~/RgRpKttXP4QCAWh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lm55dGltZXMuY29tLzE5MzkvMDgvMTUvYXJjaGl2ZXMvcm9vc2V2ZWx0LXRvLW1vdmUtdGhhbmtzZ2l2aW5nLXJldGFpbGVycy1mb3ItaXQtcGx5bW91dGgtaXMtbm90Lmh0bWw_Y2FtcGFpZ25faWQ9OSZlbWM9ZWRpdF9ubl8yMDI0MTEyOCZpbnN0YW5jZV9pZD0xNDA4MzYmbmw9dGhlLW1vcm5pbmcmcmVnaV9pZD0xNTMzNjg5MTAmc2VnbWVudF9pZD0xODQzNDImdXNlcl9pZD04ZTVkMmEyYjVlNDhhNjk2NTYxOTJjYzNhZjBhOTAwY1cDbnl0QgpnRldWSGdqbxSjUhFqY2Rvb205QGdtYWlsLmNvbVgEAAAAAw~~). Retailers were pleased and plenty of Americans didn’t seem to mind. But traditionalists gnashed their teeth. “We here in Plymouth consider the day sacred,” said a local official in the birthplace of the Thanksgiving dinner.
“Who,” asked a letter to the editor published by The Times, “wants a turkey one week thinner?” Some governors proclaimed separate Thanksgivings on the original day, inviting chaos that lasted until, in 1941, Congress standardized the date for the whole country. (Roosevelt, folding, signed the change into law.)
Even some who stood to benefit from Roosevelt’s move mocked it. In early November, a shopkeeper in Kokomo, Ind., put a sign in his store window that read: “Do your shopping now. Who knows, tomorrow may be Christmas.”

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 28, 2024, 09:29:39 AM
so, as usual, we have the US Federal government to blame or the middle East and screwin up the holiday
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 28, 2024, 10:30:51 AM
The bottom layer of rock at Bryce Canyon is the top layer of Zion National Park and the bottom layer at Zion is the top layer of the Grand Canyon.

(https://i.imgur.com/D8lvvUJ.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 28, 2024, 02:04:30 PM
Psychedelic pop-rock band The Strawberry Alarm Clock’s memorable single “Incense and Peppermints” reached the highest heights of the Billboard Hot 100 on November 25, 1967. The song displaced Lulu’s “To Sir with Love” at No. 1 on the chart. “Incense and Peppermints” spent one week atop the Hot 100 before being supplanted by The Monkees’ “Daydream Believer.”

“Incense and Peppermints” was The Strawberry Alarm Clock’s first single, released in May 1967. The track also was included on the Los Angeles-area band’s self-titled debut album, which arrived that October.

There is some debate over the songwriting credits for “Incense and Peppermints.” The tune is credited with being co-written by producer/songwriter John S. Carter and Tim Gilbert, a singer/guitarist for the Colorado-based psychedelic pop outfit The Rainy Daze.

The song was first recorded by the L.A. band Thee Sixpence, which eventually changed its name to The Strawberry Alarm Clock. Thee Sixpence (and later Strawberry Alarm Clock) guitarist Ed King and keyboardist Mark Weitz came up with an instrumental idea on which “Incense and Peppermints” was based, but received no writing credit for the tune.


Interestingly, “Incense and Peppermints” was sung by Greg Munford, who was not a member of The Strawberry Alarm Clock. The 16-year-old Munford, who was singing in a group called The Shapes at the time, was invited to the “Incense and Peppermints” recording session to sing backing vocals by the producer, Frank Slay. In the studio, Slay and the band decided that Munford’s voice was better suited for the tune than that of The Strawberry Alarm Clock’s lead vocalist.

“Incense and Peppermints” wasn’t The Strawberry Alarm Clock’s only Top-40 hit on the Hot 100. In 1968, “Tomorrow,” a song from the band’s second album, Wake Up…It’s Tomorrow, reached No. 23 on the chart.

The Strawberry Alarm Clock went on to appear in a couple of noteworthy films. In 1968, they were featured in Psych-Out, a hippie-themed drama that starred Jack Nicholson, Bruce Dern, and Susan Strasberg. The band also appeared in the 1970 satirical rock melodrama Beyond the Valley of the Dolls. The over-the-top Russ Meyer flick featured a screenplay written by famous film critic Roger Ebert.


Perhaps one of the most interesting tidbits associated with The Strawberry Alarm Clock is that lead guitarist Ed King went on to play with Lynyrd Skynyrd from 1973 to 1975, and again from 1987 to 1996. King co-wrote several well-known songs for the band, including “Sweet Home Alabama” and “Saturday Night Special.”

He was inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame with the group in 2006. He died in 2018 at age 68.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 29, 2024, 08:29:58 AM
Tech-UGA game 1966, the stadium had not been expanded significantly since 1929 when it opened.  

(https://i.imgur.com/k58UmNb.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 29, 2024, 09:49:33 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Warren Commission Is Established (1963)
Chaired by US Chief Justice Earl Warren, the Warren Commission was appointed by US President Lyndon B. Johnson to investigate the assassination of President John F. Kennedy and the shooting of his assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald. After months of investigation, it reported that Kennedy was killed by Oswald's rifle shots from the Texas School Book Depository and that Oswald's murder by Jack Ruby was not part of a conspiracy to assassinate Kennedy.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2024, 09:12:08 AM
"When we answer the phone, we typically say 'Hello.' But what is Hello?
It may surprise many to learn that 'Hello' is not just a greeting, it's rather the name of a specific person. 'Hello' was in fact the name of Alexander Graham Bell's fiancée, Margaret Hello.
Bell, the inventor of the telephone, used 'Hello' as the first word during the initial test of his invention. This simple utterance quickly became the standard opening for phone calls worldwide, enduring as the greeting we use to this day when picking up the phone."





No. This is a popular hoax on internet.

Mabel Hubbard was Bell's girlfriend who he later marries on 1877. The telephone was patented in 1876.

Alexander Graham Bell actually never used the term "hello" . The first call he made was to his assistant who was in the adjoining room and he said "Come-here. I want to see you."

The word "Hello" actually came from hola which meant to stop and pay attention. Alexander Bell preferred to use Ähoy"as in the ships those days which co-incidentally was misheard by Edison.



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on November 30, 2024, 10:04:51 AM
The Horse Manure Problem of 1894
The 15 to 30 pounds of manure produced daily by each beast multiplied by the 150,000+ horses in New York city resulted in more than three million pounds of horse manure per day that somehow needed to be disposed of. That’s not to mention the daily 40,000 gallons of horse urine.
In other words, cities reeked. As Morris says, the “stench was omnipresent.” Here are some fun bits from his article:
Urban streets were minefields that needed to be navigated with the greatest care. “Crossing sweepers” stood on street corners; for a fee they would clear a path through the mire for pedestrians. Wet weather turned the streets into swamps and rivers of muck, but dry weather brought little improvement; the manure turned to dust, which was then whipped up by the wind, choking pedestrians and coating buildings.
. . . even when it had been removed from the streets the manure piled up faster than it could be disposed of . . . early in the century farmers were happy to pay good money for the manure, by the end of the 1800s stable owners had to pay to have it carted off. As a result of this glut . . . vacant lots in cities across America became piled high with manure; in New York these sometimes rose to forty and even sixty feet.
We need to remind ourselves that horse manure is an ideal breeding ground for flies, which spread disease. Morris reports that deadly outbreaks of typhoid and “infant diarrheal diseases can be traced to spikes in the fly population.”


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 30, 2024, 10:08:20 AM
"When we answer the phone, we typically say 'Hello.' But what is Hello?
It may surprise many to learn that 'Hello' is not just a greeting, it's rather the name of a specific person. 'Hello' was in fact the name of Alexander Graham Bell's fiancée, Margaret Hello.
Bell, the inventor of the telephone, used 'Hello' as the first word during the initial test of his invention. This simple utterance quickly became the standard opening for phone calls worldwide, enduring as the greeting we use to this day when picking up the phone."

No. This is a popular hoax on internet.

Mabel Hubbard was Bell's girlfriend who he later marries on 1877. The telephone was patented in 1876.

Alexander Graham Bell actually never used the term "hello" . The first call he made was to his assistant who was in the adjoining room and he said "Come-here. I want to see you."

The word "Hello" actually came from hola which meant to stop and pay attention. Alexander Bell preferred to use Ähoy"as in the ships those days which co-incidentally was misheard by Edison.
hah, being a phone man, I read the first 3 paragraphs and was gonna do some fact checkin

it's a hoax, I doubt it's very popular if I've not heard it before

weird!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on November 30, 2024, 11:00:20 AM
In the TV show “ The Simpsons “ it’s a long running gag that the old and decrepit Mr. Burns answers the telephone with an enthusiastic “ Ahoy hoy”. Basically they’re saying that he’s so old he uses Bells original preferred greeting for the phone. Almost nobody gets the gag. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on November 30, 2024, 11:08:07 AM
well, ya gotta factor in the target audience of the Simpsons
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 02, 2024, 09:10:15 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/b4wZUPA.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 02, 2024, 05:58:29 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
John Brown Hanged for Raid on Harpers Ferry (1859)
Brown was a radical US abolitionist who advocated armed action to end slavery. He and his supporters murdered five proslavery settlers in Kansas in 1856, and three years later he tried to start an armed liberation movement among slaves by seizing the federal arsenal at Harpers Ferry, West Virginia, intending to arm local slaves with its weapons. His small force was soon overpowered, and Brown was captured, tried for treason, convicted, and hanged.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 03, 2024, 04:42:36 PM
HIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Illinois Becomes the 21st US State (1818)
At the end the French and Indian Wars, France ceded the entire Illinois region to Britain. This region was an integral part of the Old Northwest that was brought within US boundaries 20 years later by the 1783 Treaty of Paris, which ended the American Revolution. In 1787, the area was officially designated the Northwest Territory. Made part of Indiana Territory in 1800, Illinois was granted statehood in 1818.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 03, 2024, 05:03:49 PM
HIS DAY IN HISTORY:
Illinois Becomes the 21st US State (1818)
At the end the French and Indian Wars, France ceded the entire Illinois region to Britain. This region was an integral part of the Old Northwest that was brought within US boundaries 20 years later by the 1783 Treaty of Paris, which ended the American Revolution. In 1787, the area was officially designated the Northwest Territory. Made part of Indiana Territory in 1800, Illinois was granted statehood in 1818.

Hence the name of a school called Northwestern.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 04, 2024, 11:02:08 PM
unintended consequences of Prohibition
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/0PPRIUR3GN0?feature=share
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on December 05, 2024, 07:15:39 AM
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/a6ffa35d7bbe244bb46f64b2d443d02e/tenor.gif?itemid=10358303)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 05, 2024, 08:54:41 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Flight 19 Is Lost in the Bermuda Triangle (1945)
Flight 19 was the designation of five US Navy bombers that disappeared over the Bermuda Triangle during a navigation training flight from a naval air station in Florida. All 14 airmen involved in the exercise were lost. The search-and-rescue flight that went after them also disappeared, along with its 13-man crew, and is assumed to have exploded in midair. No wreckage from any of the six aircraft has ever been positively identified.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on December 05, 2024, 03:02:08 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Flight 19 Is Lost in the Bermuda Triangle (1945)
Flight 19 was the designation of five US Navy bombers that disappeared over the Bermuda Triangle during a navigation training flight from a naval air station in Florida. All 14 airmen involved in the exercise were lost. The search-and-rescue flight that went after them also disappeared, along with its 13-man crew, and is assumed to have exploded in midair. No wreckage from any of the six aircraft has ever been positively identified.
I've always thought it was strange how this one incident got so much press over the years.  I mean, yeah it sucked that they got lost and died, but was it really much different than other planes going missing during that era?  Notice how not much goes on in the Bermuda Triangle now that we have modern communication and GPS?  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 05, 2024, 03:39:31 PM
Exploding in midair is weird 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 05, 2024, 04:26:19 PM
On this date in December 5,1933 Prohibition in the United States was repealed, with the ratification of the Twenty-first Amendment, which ended the nationwide ban on alcohol established by the Eighteenth Amendment. This repeal was largely a response to the negative social and economic impacts of Prohibition, including the rise of organized crime and loss of tax revenue.

really ashamed of 94,FF and Bwarb for not mentioning this dark blot and the return to the light in our History
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 05, 2024, 04:27:57 PM
On this date in December 5,  in the United States was repealed, with the ratification of the Twenty-first Amendment, which ended the nationwide ban on alcohol established by the Eighteenth Amendment. This repeal was largely a response to the negative social and economic impacts of Prohibition, including the rise of organized crime and loss of tax revenue.

 really ashamed of 94,FF and Bwarb for not mentioning this dark blot and the return to the light in our History
Sorry... Unlike some of you, I'm not old enough to have lived through that. Or unlike CD, having not only lived through it but been old enough to drink when Prohibition began :57:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on December 05, 2024, 04:48:27 PM
Ouch!

I'm pretty sure CD was unimpressed with bathtub gin...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 05, 2024, 05:54:07 PM
Nubbz, 

Was leaving you something to post that might seem important 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 05, 2024, 09:10:42 PM
You were out celebrating the occasion and forgot or couldn't find your trifocals to read "On This Date In History"
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 06, 2024, 07:56:33 AM
The 1908 "Great Race" from New York to Paris
@TheHistoryGuyChannel
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/CV0LHEWH7JU?feature=share

Oh and Tiffany's is full of shit
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/VmRvzOniIdg?feature=share

The forever light bulb
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sxILZYLiJYs?feature=share
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 06, 2024, 09:29:41 AM
The Battle of Kadesh

Likely the largest chariot battle in history, the Battle of Kadesh was fought between the Egyptians and the Hittites in 1274 BCE at the city of Kadesh in what is now Syria. Pharaoh Ramses II mounted the attack to regain lost territory, but he was eventually forced to retreat to Egypt. Hostilities between the two peoples were finally ended with a peace agreement in 1258 BCE—one of the earliest international peace treaties.

____________

might not have been on this date
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 06, 2024, 09:30:48 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Washington Monument Is Completed (1884)
In 1783, Congress passed a resolution approving an equestrian statue of George Washington. Plans were made to erect it at the site of the present Washington Monument, but Washington objected to the idea. After his death in 1799, plans for a memorial were discussed but none was adopted until 1832, when blocks of stone began to be collected from each state, some foreign countries, and private individuals. The 555-ft (169-m) monument was finally completed in 1884.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 06, 2024, 01:01:22 PM
Fiber Optic vs. Internet: Which Came First?

The development of fiber optics and the internet are intertwined but distinct advancements. Fiber optics, as a technology, predates the internet. The early research and development of fiber optics in the 1960s and 1970s provided the infrastructure that would later support the growth of the internet.

The internet, as we know it today, began to take shape in the late 1960s with the creation of ARPANET, the precursor to the modern internet. ARPANET was initially designed to connect a small number of research institutions and government agencies, using existing copper telephone lines for data transmission. However, the limitations of copper wiring became apparent as the demand for higher data rates and longer transmission distances grew.

It wasn't until the 1980s and 1990s that fiber optic technology became integral to the expansion of the internet, providing the high-speed backbone necessary for efficient data transmission. The deployment of fiber optic cables enabled the internet to scale rapidly, accommodating the explosive growth in data traffic driven by the proliferation of computers, mobile devices, and online services.


https://flyteccomputers.com/blog/the-history-and-importance-of-fiber-optic-technology/ (https://flyteccomputers.com/blog/the-history-and-importance-of-fiber-optic-technology/)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on December 07, 2024, 08:13:27 AM
On this date in December 5,1933 Prohibition in the United States was repealed, with the ratification of the Twenty-first Amendment, which ended the nationwide ban on alcohol established by the Eighteenth Amendment. This repeal was largely a response to the negative social and economic impacts of Prohibition, including the rise of organized crime and loss of tax revenue.

really ashamed of 94,FF and Bwarb for not mentioning this dark blot and the return to the light in our History
I’ve often wondered about how in the hell prohibition even got passed in the first place, but apparently the US had a very serious drinking problem around that time, and it may not have been a bad thing overall. In other words, we needed to dry out for a bit. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 07, 2024, 02:01:08 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Ppz9K4j.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 08, 2024, 07:41:22 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

SpaceX Launches and Returns a Spacecraft from Orbit (2010)
In 2002, PayPal cofounder Elon Musk established the space transportation company SpaceX. In 2010, SpaceX became the first private company to place a spacecraft into orbit and successfully recover it. The craft, called Dragon, was launched on a Falcon 9 rocket from Cape Canaveral. In 2012, Dragon became the first commercial spacecraft to successfully rendezvous with and be attached to the International Space Station (ISS).
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 08, 2024, 08:46:20 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/eell3Ta.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 09, 2024, 07:25:46 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
John Birch Society Founded (1958)
The John Birch Society was founded in 1958 by Robert H. Welch, Jr., a retired candymaker, to combat communism and promote ultraconservative causes in the US. It was named for an American missionary and army intelligence officer killed by Chinese communists in 1945, considered by the society the first hero of the Cold War. Its membership reached more than 70,000 in the 1960s.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 09, 2024, 12:23:08 PM
What Is the Difference Between PYREX and pyrex?

Corning invented the brand Pyrex in 1915 and made all Pyrex products with borosilicate glass. This type of glass has an element called boron trioxide in it, which makes it highly resistant to major temperature changes, reducing the risk of it breaking.

Historically, Corning owned the trademark to the PYREX and pyrex logos and they were used interchangeably on all Pyrex branded products. Corning later licensed the use of the names PYREX and pyrex to two different companies who now produce the glass cookware.

You’ll now find cooking products labeled PYREX in Europe, Africa, and the Middle East, where they are still made with borosilicate glass. The label pyrex stayed stateside, and in the rest of North America, South America, and Asia, and the company that makes them no longer uses borosilicate glass. Instead, they are made with tempered soda-lime glass, which is heated and cooled in a manner that makes it more durable than regular glass under temperature fluctuations. While it’s still heat-resistant, it’s not quite as heat-resistant as borosilicate glass.

PYREX vs. pyrex: Which Is Safer?
Since PYREX is made with borosilicate glass, it is more heat-resistant and therefore less prone to breaking due to any sudden changes of temperature such as transferring a casserole from the refrigerator directly to the oven. That makes PYREX cookware safer than pyrex cookware, which runs a higher risk of exploding due to thermal shock—when the glass goes through an extreme temperature change that can cause it to fracture.


https://www.simplyrecipes.com/pyrex-vs-pyrex-expert-8757800 (https://www.simplyrecipes.com/pyrex-vs-pyrex-expert-8757800)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 10, 2024, 10:00:34 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

UN General Assembly Adopts Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948)
Drafted by a committee chaired by Eleanor Roosevelt, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is the world's most translated document. Among its 30 articles are definitions of civil and political rights, as well as definitions of economic, social, and cultural rights—all of which are owed by UN member states to those under their jurisdiction. Since its adoption, it has acquired more juridical status than originally intended and has been widely used, even by national courts
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 10, 2024, 02:55:59 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/chxw65g.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 10, 2024, 05:53:54 PM
Good to see she found some purpose for the other end of the broom
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 11, 2024, 08:51:34 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Kyoto Protocol Is Adopted (1997)
The Kyoto Protocol is an international agreement to fight global warming that calls on industrialized nations to cut their greenhouse gas emissions. It was adopted during a UN Conference on Climate Change held in Kyoto, Japan, in 1997. Later that year, international representatives settled the details necessary to convert the agreement into a binding international treaty, and it came into force in 2005 after ratification by more than 125 nations.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 11, 2024, 08:56:06 AM
Kyoto Protocol | History, Provisions, & Facts | Britannica (https://www.britannica.com/event/Kyoto-Protocol)

Although the Kyoto Protocol represented a landmark diplomatic accomplishment, its success was far from assured. Indeed, reports issued in the first two years after the treaty took effect indicated that most participants would fail to meet their emission targets. Even if the targets were met, however, the ultimate benefit to the [color=var(--link-color)]environment[/color] (https://www.britannica.com/science/environment) would not be significant, according to some critics, since [color=var(--link-color)]China[/color] (https://www.britannica.com/place/China), the world’s leading emitter of greenhouse gases, and the [color=var(--link-color)]United States[/color] (https://www.britannica.com/place/United-States), the world’s second largest emitter, were not bound by the protocol (China because of its status as a [color=var(--link-color)]developing country[/color] (https://www.britannica.com/money/developing-country) and the United States because it had not ratified the protocol). Other critics claimed that the emission reductions called for in the protocol were too modest to make a detectable difference in global temperatures in the subsequent several decades, even if fully achieved with U.S. participation. Meanwhile, some developing countries argued that improving [color=var(--link-color)]adaptation[/color] (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/adaptation) to [color=var(--link-color)]climate variability and change[/color] (https://www.britannica.com/science/climate-change) was just as important as reducing greenhouse gas emissions.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 11, 2024, 09:15:31 AM
were not bound by the protocol??

what happened if you were bound by the protocol???
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 11, 2024, 10:16:53 AM
Countries not bound by protocol (which would be all of them in effect) would be "forced" to attend more meetings in luxury beach areas to sign more "protocols".  None of this is treaty, none has any force, it's all volunteer, and largely ineffective.  Since Kyoto, human generation of greenhouse gases has continued to rise.  Some countries have managed to level off, but at a rather high level.  Some like China went crazy building coal power plants.



(https://i.imgur.com/TCLeFic.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 12, 2024, 07:21:44 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/HPl96Jl.png)

1969 Peach Bowl
December 30th
Grant Field


West Virginia - 14
South Carolina - 3


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 12, 2024, 07:47:11 AM
were not bound by the protocol??

what happened if you were bound by the protocol???
I hate all those creeky names these yapping jackels give their conferences. Like o-o-o they're saying something - Kyoto Protocol I think they mean it this time
https://youtu.be/xCc-RWIp7XU
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 12, 2024, 07:53:02 AM
The English Civil War

The English Civil War, which began in 1642, consisted of a series of conflicts between Parliamentarians and the Royalist supporters of King Charles I and, later, King Charles II. Ending with Parliamentary victory in 1651, the conflicts left England, Scotland, and Ireland without a monarch. After the execution of Charles I and the exile of Charles II, the monarchy was replaced with a republican commonwealth government led by Oliver Cromwell.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 12, 2024, 08:11:24 AM
On this day in 1972, Apollo 17, the last crewed lunar landing mission of the Apollo program, landed on the Moon in the valley of Taurus-Littrow. More on Apollo 17

(https://i.imgur.com/UdWX20g.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 12, 2024, 08:13:46 AM
1279 Discovery of a sarcophagus supposedly containing the body of Mary Magdalene in the crypt of the church of Saint-Maximin, southeastern France (not sure how they know it's her)
1700 Utrecht, Overijssel, Buren, Leerdam and Ijsselstein adopt Gregorian calendar
1787 Pennsylvania becomes 2nd state to ratify US constitution
1874 Hawaiian King David Kalakaua is 1st king to visit the US as guest of Ulysses S. Grant at 1st US state dinner at the White House
1878 Joseph Pulitzer begins publishing the "St. Louis Post-Dispatch"
1901 Guglielmo Marconi sends the first transatlantic radio signal, from Poldhu in Cornwall to Newfoundland, Canada
1915 1st all-metal aircraft (Junkers J-1) test flown at Dessau, Germany
1917 French troop train derails in French Alps killing 543
1930 Baseball Rules Committee greatly revises the rule book; a ball bouncing into the stands is not a home run, now a double
1946 United Nations accepts six Manhattan blocks as a gift from John D. Rockefeller Jr.
1950 16th Heisman Trophy Award: Vic Janowicz, Ohio State (HB)
1950 16th Heisman Trophy Award: Vic Janowicz, Ohio State (HB)
1961 Nazi German army officer Adolf Eichmann is found guilty of war crimes in Israel
1963 Frank Sinatra, Jr returned by kidnappersafter his father paid the $240,000 ransom demanded
1965 Chicago halfback Gale Sayers ties NFL record for most touchdowns in a game with 6 in 61–20 victory over San Francisco 49ers at Wrigley Field
1965 The Beatles' last concert in Great Britain at Capitol Theatre in Cardiff, Wales
1968 Arthur Ashe becomes 1st black person be ranked #1 in tennis
1977 Yanks purchase Andy Messersmith from Braves
1982 The "Snowplow Game": when a snowstorm holds a New England vs Miami game scoreless, Mark Henderson, a convict on work release, on Patriots coach Ron Meyer order, clears the path for John Smith's attempt, which wins the game for the Patriots, 3-0
1983 A truck bomb explodes at US Embassy in Kuwait
1987 Mookie Blaylock sets NBA record of 13 steals in a game
1997 Red Sox sign Pedro Martinez to record 6 year $69 million contract
2000 US Supreme Court releases its 5-4 decision in Bush v. Gore, settling the recount dispute in Florida's 2000 presidential election in George W. Bush's favor and thus handing him the presidency over Al Gore
2011 77th Heisman Trophy Award: Robert Griffin III, Baylor (QB)
2018 China built 88 out of world's 143 skyscrapers in 2018 more than any country ever (buildings over 200 meters/656 ft)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 12, 2024, 08:17:52 AM
1917 French troop train derails in French Alps killing 543


That would seem like a major historical note, but I gather at the time, it was a footnote.

The French train was traveling from Turin (https://www.britannica.com/place/Turin-Italy), Italy, to Lyon (https://www.britannica.com/place/Lyon-France), France, through a stretch of the Alps (https://www.britannica.com/place/Alps) in southeastern France. It was carrying more than 1,000 soldiers, who had been stationed in northern Italy while fighting in World War I (https://www.britannica.com/event/World-War-I). The trip was planned as a reprieve (https://www.britannica.com/dictionary/reprieve) from combat, with many of the men planning to reunite with their families for the Christmas holiday.


Only one locomotive pulled the 19 cars. Though the locomotive could effectively move the heavy load, the train’s engineer reportedly had warned French officials that the train would likely be unable to brake fully on hills. As the train moved out of a tunnel, it began descending a steep hill. The train lost control as it neared the bottom of the hill, where it ran over a bridge and derailed. The train cars were made mostly of wood and immediately began to burn. Many of the hundreds of victims were unidentifiable. The engineer survived the accident (https://www.britannica.com/topic/accident).
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 12, 2024, 08:27:11 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Kl2630P.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 12, 2024, 08:36:09 AM
1917 French troop train derails in French Alps killing 543

 The trip was planned as a reprieve (https://www.britannica.com/dictionary/reprieve) from combat, with many of the men planning to reunite with their families for the Christmas holiday.


Only one locomotive pulled the 19 cars. Though the locomotive could effectively move the heavy load, the train’s engineer reportedly had warned French officials that the train would likely be unable to brake fully on hills. As the train moved out of a tunnel, it began descending a steep hill. The train lost control as it neared the bottom of the hill, where it ran over a bridge and derailed. The train cars were made mostly of wood and immediately began to burn. Many of the hundreds of victims were unidentifiable. The engineer survived the accident (https://www.britannica.com/topic/accident).
That poor guy if accurate had to be both enraged and horified for those political hacks ignoring him and perhaps leaving him as the fall guy
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 13, 2024, 07:27:58 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Sir Francis Drake Begins Circumnavigation of the Globe (1577)
Drake, an English buccaneer and navigator, set out in 1577 with five ships to raid Spanish holdings on the Pacific coast of the New World. After abandoning two ships, he navigated the Straits of Magellan with the remaining three, becoming the first Englishman to do so. Another ship was destroyed in a storm, and a fourth returned to England, but Drake continued alone up the coast of S America, crossed the Pacific, rounded the Cape of Good Hope, and arrived in England in 1580.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 13, 2024, 07:51:22 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/70iAvGo.png)

Areas of German Language in 1910 vs 2010

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 13, 2024, 07:57:00 AM
Tazewell, Tennessee, 1833...
Have you ever heard of the 1833 Meteor Showers? The Library of Congress gives the following description:
"The Leonid Meteor Storm Of 1833 was seen across the United States in the night and early morning of November 12th and 13th, 1833. Those who were awake to witness the storm were in awe as between 50,000 and 150,000 meteors fell each hour."
Sounds truly amazing, doesn't it? Well, Mary A. Hansard lived during this time and recollects the event for us in her book "Old Time Tazewell". I think it's wonderful to have a local perspective on a nationally known historical event...
Here's a hand drawn illustration provided by the Library of Congress along with a snippet from Mrs. Hansard's book...
"In the year 1833 a most remarkable phenomenon occurred. I suppose that it is recorded in history. It was called the falling of the meteors. It happened in the night, and as I was only a small child, I was not an eye witness to the awful scene. I heard my parents and others describe it next morning, as being the most awful sight that was ever looked upon with mortal eye. They said that the firmament on high was one solid glare of fire and light, and it looked as though every star in the sky was falling to the ground, and that they were certain the Day of Judgment was at hand. There were many wicked men on their knees that night praying to the Lord, and calling on others to pray for them, that had never been known to bow in prayer before. Such wild confusion had never been seen in Tazewell before. Next morning after all was over there seemed to be a solemn gloom resting on everyone's countenance. It seemed that they were expecting more to occur. But everything moved on as usual. But I do not suppose that the scenes of that night were ever erased from the memory of those that were eye witnesses to the frightful event."
From "Old Time Tazewell" by Mary A. Hansard


(https://i.imgur.com/jQpMl4j.png)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 13, 2024, 12:41:21 PM
American Historical Society of Germans from Russia

Belznickel is tradition originating from a region of southwestern Germany along the Rhine. Belznickel was depicted as a filthy, man dressed in rags and furs. He would carry a whip and chains to scare misbehaving children a couple weeks before Christmas. Belznickel is still popular among the Pennsylvania Dutch, Brazilian Germans, and the Germans from Russia that settled in America. Don’t worry he would also have pocketsful of cakes, candies, and nuts for good children.


(https://i.imgur.com/FZJlVy5.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: SFBadger96 on December 13, 2024, 12:55:00 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/70iAvGo.png)

Areas of German Language in 1910 vs 2010


Europe's modern nation-states really are "modern." Most of Europe was not organized around a state the way we think of it; it was largely organized around family-controlled empires. World War I effectively ended that. Eastern Europe, in particular, was a fascinating amalgamation of different ethnic groups that shuffled back and forth under the control of different empires.
That has meaningful application to the war in Ukraine. Russion nationalists have the idea of reuniting the "old" Russia--essentially Czarist Russia, which includes a great deal of many countries that are no longer a part of Russia, as we know its borders as a state (or at least the best parts of the old empire). The truth is many of the families who live in those areas have heard stories from relatives they knew who at had lived under the Czar's rule. I.e., parts of "Ukraine" were parts of Russia within the last 110 years. Now, Ukraine was always its own region, but "Russians" lived there--and likely still do. That doesn't mean Russia has a legitimate claim to attacking Ukraine, but it does mean that the relationships among the people are more complicated than "Ukranian" and "Russian."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 13, 2024, 02:59:48 PM
I have read that many Ukrainians greeted the Germans as liberators in 1941.

That sounds plausible, Ukraine had suffered under Stalin (who himself wasn't a Russia).  I believe Kyiv was a city when Moscow was barely a village.

It is weird to see old maps where Lithuania was a large country as well as Denmark. Poland appears and disappears.  Romania speaks a Latin based language somewhat akin to Italian.  Greece had a lot of influence in Anatolia which led to the war between them and the Turks and before them the Ottomans.  Egypt to go further was led by one of Alexander's generals (Ptolemy), who was "Greek".
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 13, 2024, 03:00:40 PM
January 1, 1949:  Texas fullback Tom Landry scores on a 14 yard touchdown run to help the Longhorns defeat Georgia 41-28 in the 1949 Orange Bowl. Landry carried 17 times for 119 yards. If the name sounds familiar, yes that's the same Tom Landry who went on to become a hall of fame coach with the Dallas Cowboys. Landry wasn't the only future NFL head coach to play in the 1949 Orange Bowl. Georgia quarterback John Rauch later coached the Oakland Raiders in Super Bowl II--the first of five Super Bowls played at the Orange Bowl.

Landry was 24 years old during the 1949 Orange Bowl. His college career had been interrupted by World War II, where he served as a B-17 pilot. Landry completed a combat tour of 30 missions, and survived a crash landing in Belgium after his bomber ran out of fuel. The 1949 Orange Bowl was one of Landry's few triumphs at the stadium. The Cowboys were 0-2 against the Dolphins in Miami and 0-3 in Super Bowls in Miami. Landry's only victory at the Orange Bowl was 17-13 win over the Vikings in the 1969 Playoff Bowl. Altogether, Dallas was 1-7 at the Orange Bowl.


(https://i.imgur.com/aN17pzv.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 13, 2024, 04:24:47 PM
Former Georgia running back Herschel Walker graduated from college more than four decades after starring for Bulldogs.

(https://i.imgur.com/qpkB2z6.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on December 13, 2024, 04:41:21 PM
Former Georgia running back Herschel Walker graduated from college more than four decades after starring for Bulldogs.

(https://i.imgur.com/qpkB2z6.png)

Good job on that kid getting his degree.  Maybe now he can make something of himself.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 13, 2024, 05:18:43 PM
Areas of German Language in 1910 vs 2010
I speak in Latin to God, Italian to Women, French to Men, and German to my Horse. - Charles the V,Holy Roman Emperor
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 14, 2024, 09:36:24 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Dayton Agreement Is Signed in Paris, France (1995)
The Dayton Agreement was a peace agreement that put an end to the Bosnian War that began in 1992. The accord was the result of a meeting between Bosnian, Croatian, and Serbian leaders under US auspices in Dayton, Ohio. It called for a Bosnian republic with a central government and two semiautonomous regions roughly equal in size—one dominated by Serbs and the other by Bosniaks and Croats in federation.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 14, 2024, 10:01:06 AM
On July 7th, 1930, construction officially began on the Hoover Dam, a monumental engineering project that would forever change the landscape of the American West. Located on the border between Arizona and Nevada, the dam was conceived as a solution to the region’s water shortages, power generation needs, and flood control challenges. With the Colorado River as its source, the dam would eventually provide water to millions of people, while its hydroelectric power plants would supply electricity to a vast area, from Los Angeles to Phoenix.
The construction of the Hoover Dam was a massive undertaking, involving thousands of workers and several years of grueling labor. The project's scale was unprecedented at the time, and it required the development of new techniques and technologies to deal with the harsh conditions of the desert environment. Workers had to contend with extreme heat, dust, and the dangers of working with dynamite and heavy machinery, but the collective effort led to a groundbreaking achievement. The dam’s completion in 1936 marked a triumph of American ingenuity and labor during the Great Depression.
The Hoover Dam became an iconic symbol of progress and resilience. Its completion not only addressed critical infrastructure needs but also served as a testament to the ability of people to work together to overcome seemingly insurmountable challenges. Over the years, it has become a lasting symbol of both the power of the Colorado River and the enduring spirit of those who built it. Today, the Hoover Dam remains an engineering marvel and a testament to the bold vision of those who began its construction in 1930.


(https://i.imgur.com/VwKeZNq.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 14, 2024, 10:07:16 AM
Badge can get rid of thousands of dams

I'd prefer to keep that one
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 14, 2024, 02:27:03 PM
The Biggest Ship Ever Built

Did you know the Seawise Giant, also known as the Knock Nevis, was the largest ship ever built? At 1,504 feet (458 meters) long, it was a massive supertanker that could carry 4.1 million barrels of crude oil – that’s 5% of the world’s daily oil consumption!

But could it be sunk by an aircraft carrier? While it’s theoretically possible, it wouldn’t be easy. The Seawise Giant had a thick steel hull, multiple bulkheads, and advanced damage control measures, making it highly resilient to attacks.

Though an aircraft carrier's missiles or aircraft could target vulnerable spots, sinking the Seawise Giant would require significant force and precision. With its fire-fighting systems and skilled crew on standby, the ship could handle damage better than most!

Fascinating, right? The sheer scale of this vessel is a reminder of how engineering can push the limits of size and durability.


(https://i.imgur.com/8QPd7YU.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 15, 2024, 09:27:19 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 


Gone with the Wind Premieres in Atlanta, Georgia (1939)
American writer Margaret Mitchell only published one novel during her lifetime—Gone with the Wind—and it became one of the most popular novels in the history of American publishing. In 1939, an extraordinarily successful film version of the book was released, transferring the romantic, panoramic portrait of the Civil War and Reconstruction periods in Georgia to the big screen. The movie won 10 Academy Awards.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 15, 2024, 09:28:51 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 


Jean Paul Getty (1892)
The son of an oil millionaire, Getty was an American industrialist who increased his fortune and became the richest man in the world by acquiring oil companies and obtaining rights to a tract of land in Saudi Arabia that yielded great quantities of oil. Married and divorced five times, he was known for such bizarre behavior as installing a payphone in his mansion for guests to use and refusing to pay a ransom for his grandson even after being sent the boy's ear.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 15, 2024, 10:09:39 AM
It could more readily be sunk by a submarine than AC carrier.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 15, 2024, 10:16:17 AM
hittin below the belt........ Ouch!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 15, 2024, 10:22:09 AM
Margaret Mitchell's "home" is quite near us, it's an old apartment building now a museum of sorts.  I think that movie and book are somewhat banned now by some.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 15, 2024, 10:23:01 AM
fun haters
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 15, 2024, 11:34:51 AM


Meant to post last week in this thread Jim Morrison(1943) and Greg Allman(1947) were both born on December 8th. Rock and Roll could use more days like that - 2 of my favs 🎤 🎹 😎
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 15, 2024, 12:38:36 PM
Good thing he had GPS:

(https://i.imgur.com/i6iFq0w.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on December 15, 2024, 02:39:11 PM
On this day in 1972, Apollo 17, the last crewed lunar landing mission of the Apollo program, landed on the Moon in the valley of Taurus-Littrow. More on Apollo 17

(https://i.imgur.com/UdWX20g.png)
Such a waste and crying shame.  We already had all the hardware, know-how, and experience to keep exploring the moon.  Most don't know this, but these later missions were much more elaborate and beneficial than the one that gets all the press (Apollo 11).  The last three were called J-Missions, and they carried the lunar buggy shown in the picture above.  They each stayed on the moon several days, up to 3 as I recall, and were much more science focused than the flags and footprints of the first two.  We even had two fully built Saturn V rockets that were never used (they are on display in Houston and I think Florida).  We threw it all away due to cost, then turned around and spent more money flying the stupid space shuttle for the next 30 years and insofar as I can tell, didn't really do much except go up to space and do a couple of space walks or something.  

Don't get me wrong, as an 80's kid, the space shuttle and shuttle program holds a very special place in my heart, but we should have been done with it after 10-15 years at the most.  

This is not very well known, but we had missions in the planning stages to do a manned fly-by of Venus or Mars, or both.  It was just barely possible, using Apollo-era hardware, to send a crew of 2.  Can you imagine doing this in the 1970's?  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 15, 2024, 03:58:36 PM
The "Socratic Method" is a bit of a buzzword, but who was Socrates?
Most of what we know about Socrates (470-399 B.C) comes from the writings of his student Plato.
Socrates was perhaps the most influential of all ancient Athenians because his student Plato taught Aristotle, and Aristotle taught Alexander the Great.

Socrates was a philosopher who lived in Athens, the cultural center of Ancient Greece.
He spent his adult life training young men how to analyze their own lives, and life in general, including religion, morality, and the political systems of the world.

Socrates urged his students to “know thyself” and to question the commonly held assumptions of Athens.
The method Socrates used with his students involved asking questions.

Socrates’ questions poked holes into the philosophical ideas of his students, and forced them to reformulate their conclusions in a lively discussion.

Students were encouraged to debate honestly and to be open to losing a debate if another’s ideas were better.
Because of Socrates’ method of questioning, his students had to analyze their arguments and question their conclusions.
Often, students altered their conclusions when they realized their arguments could not stand up to questioning from Socrates.
Eventually, Athenian citizens grew angry with Socrates because he challenged young men to question the gods of Athens.

He was arrested and sentenced to death for corrupting the youth and for questioning the city’s gods.
Although he had a chance to escape, he chose instead to follow the judgment of the Athenian leaders.
By not escaping, Socrates sacrificed his life for the right to philosophize, to question authority, and to teach and speak freely.
He also showed by not escaping that it is important to respect the laws of the society one lives in, even if it means giving up your life.
Let us keep his spirit alive by teaching our children to think, speak, and write with courage, even when it is countercultural to do so.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 16, 2024, 06:34:19 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/wttefja.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 16, 2024, 07:14:11 AM
When Helen was a lumber town... Helendorf River Inn and Conference Center, Wendy's, Bodensee, Pirate's Cove, and Festhall are now located on this property along Munich Strasse.  Part of the train bed is now the Helen to Hardman Farm Heritage paved ADA Trail across from Econolodge.  About 1/3 of the old Depot pictured remains across from Hardman Farm.
"Located on the headwaters of the Chattahoochee River at the edge of the Nacoochee Valley in White County, Helen is about sixty miles north of Athens. It emerged in the early twentieth century in what had been, a century earlier, the heart of both Cherokee and gold mining country.
The Byrd-Matthews Corporation, a timber company attracted by the area's vast virgin hardwood trees, established a major sawmill there around 1910. Shortly afterward a railroad connector linked the new town—named Helen after the daughter of a Byrd-Matthews partner—to Gainesville in the foothills to the south.
The operation thrived until the Great Depression, when most of the timber had been cut and the company and most residents moved on to more promising forests elsewhere. By the 1950s and 1960s the town was nothing more than a bleak row of concrete block structures and supported only nine businesses." (New GA Encyclopedia)
A lot has changed!
[/iurl](https://scontent-atl3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/470237071_1316912606387927_1360838981699670122_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s600x600_tt6&_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=aa7b47&_nc_ohc=0EJEsRbgH2wQ7kNvgEQRZP_&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-2.xx&_nc_gid=AfltvvJiH-h3FB7NyZkaBcr&oh=00_AYDr7yy_rp_AhDGMrdBlwB-Uk6-u0QhSSvmlJNocj3mDxw&oe=6765F76A)


["][/iurl](https://scontent-atl3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/470228954_1316912513054603_5784381357849119010_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s600x600_tt6&_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=aa7b47&_nc_ohc=-1prmDGRNMsQ7kNvgEHEyeD&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-2.xx&_nc_gid=AfltvvJiH-h3FB7NyZkaBcr&oh=00_AYAPpy-MazZS37sqkLtc7FoC7yE75bCfYH1TE-Br7CJ51g&oe=6765D5C6)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on December 16, 2024, 09:33:44 AM
[img width=500 height=371.998]https://i.imgur.com/wttefja.png[/img]
(https://i.imgur.com/YFUeJKi.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Riffraft on December 16, 2024, 11:33:45 AM
Such a waste and crying shame.  We already had all the hardware, know-how, and experience to keep exploring the moon.  Most don't know this, but these later missions were much more elaborate and beneficial than the one that gets all the press (Apollo 11).  The last three were called J-Missions, and they carried the lunar buggy shown in the picture above.  They each stayed on the moon several days, up to 3 as I recall, and were much more science focused than the flags and footprints of the first two.  We even had two fully built Saturn V rockets that were never used (they are on display in Houston and I think Florida).  We threw it all away due to cost, then turned around and spent more money flying the stupid space shuttle for the next 30 years and insofar as I can tell, didn't really do much except go up to space and do a couple of space walks or something. 

Don't get me wrong, as an 80's kid, the space shuttle and shuttle program holds a very special place in my heart, but we should have been done with it after 10-15 years at the most. 

This is not very well known, but we had missions in the planning stages to do a manned fly-by of Venus or Mars, or both.  It was just barely possible, using Apollo-era hardware, to send a crew of 2.  Can you imagine doing this in the 1970's? 
This something we are missing as a country.  I grew up with the space race.  I could name all the astronauts. Had the models of all the different rockets.  The whole race to the moon was something that brought the country together.  A sense of national pride. I wonder what gets kids excited these days, what causes them to dream.  Like I said I think we are missing something like this to inspire 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: SFBadger96 on December 16, 2024, 12:10:26 PM
We were in competition with the Evil Empire, and the outcome wasn't clear. An Iron Curtain had descended across huge swaths of Eastern Europe and Asia, and was threatening to spread to many other parts of the globe. Many people (my dad, for one) were convinced humanity would end in nuclear holocaust at any moment. The space race was cool--and it was part of that.

While I would love to see the nation unite, I also would not like to return to that level of competition on the global stage. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 16, 2024, 05:17:53 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/PNIkHJd.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on December 16, 2024, 05:26:28 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/PNIkHJd.png)
That's hilarious...

Back in ~2004 I set up a website from my home PC using a webcam to stream video of what the dog was doing to me while I was at work...

...turns out he slept on the couch all day long. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 17, 2024, 05:53:22 AM
The concept of a "webcam" is pretty simple, we had cameras with digital read outs, we had computers, it seems a pretty simple idea to marry them.

I recall WAY back in the day we were meauring some reaction that had a pH change over time to get kinetics and I stumbled across a pH meter that had an RS232 read out.  It was pretty obvious to hook that into a computer, the data went right to Excel, and I didn't have to have a tech standing over writing down pH numbers and times.  I felt like a computer genius.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 17, 2024, 05:55:33 AM
That also reminds me of a thing I ponder at times when walking, how many radio signals are "in the air" today.  It doesn't really bother me, but it's rather amazing how they can be kept separate.  I actually don't know this for a fact, but I assume a cell phone is really a small radio.  I remember some early ones that had an antenna one had to extend.

How the heck does all this work anyway?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 17, 2024, 05:57:33 AM
I watched a neat you tube on Apollo 11 landing. They had notes about when one computer program switched to another in the descent.  I gather one program couldn't cover it all, they had to break it into 5 or 6 sections.

I read somewhere the Russians couldn't land on the Moon because they lacked the computer capabilities needed.  All their space stuff was operated by computers on the ground, which was fine in near Earth orbit, but not for the moon.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 17, 2024, 02:42:38 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/cvD3umm.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on December 17, 2024, 07:50:13 PM
That also reminds me of a thing I ponder at times when walking, how many radio signals are "in the air" today.  It doesn't really bother me, but it's rather amazing how they can be kept separate.  I actually don't know this for a fact, but I assume a cell phone is really a small radio.  I remember some early ones that had an antenna one had to extend.

How the heck does all this work anyway?
Absolutely untrue. In fact, they did in fact land a robotic mission on the moon a few years after Apollo and even returned samples. They also remain the only people to successfully land and transmit from Venus, albeit for only a short time. 
Their mega rocket, N1, had dozens of engines ( Sat V had 4 large F1 engines). It proved difficult to control. All three flights ended in failure. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 17, 2024, 09:59:00 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Wright Brothers Make Their Famous Flight (1903)
Both excellent mechanics, brothers Orville and Wilbur Wright built and repaired bicycles before turning their attention to flying machines. They spent years designing and testing gliders and also built a powerful four-cylinder engine and an efficient propeller. In 1903, after several failed attempts, the brothers succeeded in making the first controlled, sustained flights in a power-driven airplane.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on December 18, 2024, 09:17:20 AM
Yeah cell phones use part of the bandwidth of the radio spectrum.  All wireless communications do.  They're all set to slightly different frequencies within their allocated portion of the spectrum, and they can certainly overlap or "step" on each other, but there are numerous mechanisms employed both physically and in software, to prevent serious interference.  Even so, every now and then your cell phone or bluetooth device or wifi device can encounter a bad signal, regardless of signal strength.  Occasionally I have to cycle power on such a device in order to force a reset to its default signal frequency.

(https://i.imgur.com/hcf8rZW.png)

Here's a pretty detailed explanation of the various means of avoiding radio interference:

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/94388/how-come-radio-signals-dont-interfere-with-each-other-all-the-time
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 18, 2024, 04:07:28 PM
The First Opium War

Often seen as the beginning of European imperial hegemony over China, the First Opium War was fought between the British East India Company and the Qing Dynasty from 1839 to 1842. Widespread opium addiction had led to a Chinese ban on imports of the drug in 1729, and the British aimed to reverse this policy. Easily overpowered, China agreed to the Treaty of Nanjing, which fixed tariffs on British goods, opened several Chinese ports to British merchants
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 18, 2024, 04:18:30 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Saturn's Moon Epimetheus Is Discovered (1966)
Epimetheus, a nonspherical body measuring about 89 mi (144 km) by 67 mi (108 km) by 61 mi (98 km), is one of Saturn's 48 confirmed natural satellites. It was discovered in 1966 and photographed in 1980 by the Voyager 1 probe. Epimetheus and another moon, Janus, are co-orbital, meaning that they share nearly the same orbit. About every fourth year, the lower, faster satellite overtakes the other and is boosted into the higher orbit.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on December 18, 2024, 09:34:27 PM
Absolutely untrue. In fact, they did in fact land a robotic mission on the moon a few years after Apollo and even returned samples. They also remain the only people to successfully land and transmit from Venus, albeit for only a short time.
Their mega rocket, N1, had dozens of engines ( Sat V had 4 large F1 engines). It proved difficult to control. All three flights ended in failure.
Correction. Saturn V had 5 F1 engines, not 4. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 19, 2024, 07:35:05 AM
This guys hated commies so much he enlisted in 3 different armies to fight them
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/e-V-F5xDCfE?feature=share
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 19, 2024, 10:48:30 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

A Christmas Carol Is Published (1843)
English novelist Charles Dickens wrote many books and stories about Christmas. His first, the beloved A Christmas Carol, was written in just weeks, reputedly to meet the expenses of his wife's fifth pregnancy. An instant success, it has since been adapted countless times for theater and film. The last name of the story's protagonist, Ebenezer Scrooge, has even entered the English lexicon as a word meaning a mean-spirited, miserly person.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 20, 2024, 11:54:33 AM
Today in History
1860 South Carolina General Assembly votes 169-0 to secede from the United States, declaring itself an "independent commonwealth". Is quickly followed by other Southern states triggering the American Civil War.

1879 Thomas Edison privately demonstrated incandescent light at Menlo Park

1880 NY's Broadway lit by electricity, becomes known as "Great White Way"

1919 Canadian National Railways established (N America's longest, 50,000 KM)

1919 US House of Representatives restricts immigration

1920 Bob Hope becomes an American citizen aged 17 (emigrated from England aged four)

1924 Adolf Hitler freed from jail early, having served only nine months of five-year sentence for "Beer Hall Putsch" (Bad Move)

1941 World War II: First battle of the American Volunteer Group, better known as the "Flying Tigers" in Kunming, China.

1944 Battle of Bastogne: Nazis surround 101st Airborne (NUTS!)

1946 Christmas classic "It's a Wonderful Life" film, directed by Frank Capra, starring James Stewart, Donna Reed and Lionel Barrymore premieres in New York

1981 Browns set team records for most fumbles (9) & most turnovers (10)





Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 21, 2024, 08:11:14 AM
On This Day in 1951, Four Illuminated Lightbulbs in Idaho Were Evidence of the First Time a Nuclear Power Plant Generated Electricity
Although it was just a byproduct of developing a new type of reactor, the generation of electricity from nuclear energy signaled a bright future ahead

December 20, 2024

Deep in the sagebrush steppe of southeast Idaho on December 20, 1951, a team of nuclear physicists gathered around four 200-watt lightbulbs dangling from a slack wire. Then, Harold Lichtenberger, the project manager, flipped a switch. The bulbs lit up. 

Most of the time, flipping a light switch doesn’t need an audience. The team of scientists was reportedly nonchalant, too. “This is it,” one scientist said when the bulbs illuminated, according to Rick Michal in Nuclear News.

(https://i.imgur.com/o9gy6bG.jpeg)

But this was no mere flick of the finger: For the first time in history, a nuclear reaction had generated a significant amount of electricity. 

For the time being, it only powered four bulbs. But the future looked bright from the small brick building outside of Arco, Idaho. 

Development of the Experimental Breeder Reactor-I, as the reactor that powered the lightbulbs was known, began in the late 1940s, as the United States government sought to develop a nuclear reaction process that would extend its finite supply of uranium. 

Uranium-238 is uranium’s most relatively abundant isotope, making up 99 percent of the naturally occurring form of the element. However, unlike the scarce and radioactive uranium-235 isotope, uranium-238 is stable and nonfissionable without high-energy neutrons. 

A breeder reactor, like the one scientists in Idaho were trying to build, converts uranium-238’s “nonfissionable material into fissionable material more rapidly than the nuclear fuel is consumed,” Popular Mechanics explained in 1952, “a process that would contribute to expansion of our atomic program.” 

As scientists initiate the process of artificial nuclear decay, uranium-238 atoms absorb neutrons in the reactor core, becoming relatively more fissionable plutonium-239 atoms. When a plutonium nucleus in a breeder reactor is hit with a high-energy neutron, it splits, releasing heat and more neutrons. The process becomes a self-sustaining source of energy, in the form of heat, as the reaction continues.

A secret 1949 government feasibility report written by Lichtenberger, Walter Zinn and Aaron Novick—all veterans of the United States’ top-secret Manhattan Project that furthered nuclear research and created the world’s first nuclear weapons—concluded that “from the nuclear point of view … there is much attraction toward a fast neutron reactor for breeding.”

Experiments with EBR-I began in early 1951. In the compact brick building, a complex process of nuclear reactions took place leading up to the moment when Lichtenberger flipped that switch. 

First, a liquid metal coolant consisting of an alloy of sodium and potassium flowed through the reactor core, where it absorbed heat from the artificial decay process. As it returned back to its supply tank, it transferred its heat to a secondary liquid metal coolant, which was pumped to a boiler, transferring heat to water and generating enough steam to turn a turbine. 

At 1:50 p.m. on December 20, as Lichtenberger flipped the switch, the first electricity generated from nuclear energy flowed from the turbines into the four lightbulbs. 

“When I turned the switch,” Lichtenberger later told The Idaho Statesman, “I guess I was more interested in how the circuit breakers would function than I was in the significance of the test.” 

In fact, power production, Atomic Energy Commission officials told the Statesman, was merely “incidental” to the experiment’s main goals: measuring the efficacy of the breeder process and  converting nonfissionable material into fissionable material. The generation of electricity was simply a side project. 

The next day, the EBR-I’s output reached 100 kilowatts, powering all the electronics in the building, another promising indication of the development of nuclear power. 

Interest in breeder reactors waned after the 1960s as the available global uranium supply increased and scientists developed more efficient enrichment methods. But the little brick building near Arco still proudly calls itself the “World’s First Nuclear Power Plant.” 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 21, 2024, 10:48:23 AM
strange history behind it’s a wonderful life 

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kezKttYbD7Y?feature=share
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 22, 2024, 11:13:32 AM
The Lincoln Tunnel in NY opened on December 22, 1937. WW2 delayed the construction of this 1.5 mile marvel underneath a riverbed. The engineering achievements needed to build it were remarkable.

https://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnels/en/lincoln-tunnel/history.html (https://www.panynj.gov/bridges-tunnels/en/lincoln-tunnel/history.html)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 22, 2024, 11:14:43 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Berlin's Brandenburg Gate Reopens (1989)
The only remaining town gate of Berlin, the Brandenburg Gate was modeled after the propylaeum of the Athenian Acropolis. Originally topped with the "Quadriga of Victory," a statue of a chariot drawn by four horses, it was heavily damaged in World War II but was later restored. In 1961, the Berlin Wall blocked access to it for both eastern and western Germans, but it was reopened in 1989 with the reunification of East and West Berlin.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 22, 2024, 02:58:46 PM
View from Wacker Drive of the Sears Tower under construction, Chicago. (1972)

In 1972, the view from Wacker Drive captured the Sears Tower rising into the Chicago skyline. Cranes and scaffolding surrounded the steel frame as construction crews worked tirelessly to assemble what would become the tallest building in the world. Designed by architect Bruce Graham and engineer Fazlur Rahman Khan, the tower’s innovative bundled-tube design provided both strength and height. Wacker Drive, with its proximity to the Chicago River, offered one of the best vantage points to witness this architectural marvel taking shape. The Sears Tower symbolized Chicago’s ambition and engineering prowess, becoming an enduring icon of the city’s skyline.


(https://i.imgur.com/IUpM3T7.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 22, 2024, 03:02:56 PM
How much of it has occupants
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 22, 2024, 03:16:01 PM
Floor Directory - Floor Purposes
110 Penthouse Roof
109 Mechanical Penthouse
106-108 Mechanical
104-105 Communications and mechanical
103 Skydeck Observatory
100-102 Communications
99 Secondary Skydeck and Restaurant
90-98 Offices
88-89 Mechanical
68-87 Offices
66-67 Sky Lobby
64-65 Mechanical
35-63 Offices
33-34 Sky Lobby
29-32 Mechanical
3-28 Offices
2 Upper lobby, Restaurant
1 Lobby, Shops and Restaurants
LL1 Lower Level 1, Shops
LL2 Lower Level 2, Skydeck lobby
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 24, 2024, 05:27:29 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
The Ku Klux Klan Is Formed (1865)
The Ku Klux Klan is the name of two distinct secret societies that played a part in American history. The first Klan was an organization that thrived in the South during the Reconstruction period following the Civil War. The second was a nationwide organization that flourished after World War I. Subsequent groups calling themselves the Ku Klux Klan sprang up in much of the South after World War II and in response to civil-rights activity during the 1960s.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on December 24, 2024, 05:36:50 PM
Dreaming of a White Christmas are ya FF?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 24, 2024, 05:46:02 PM
https://youtu.be/t_xq3Bj_tas
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 25, 2024, 11:00:19 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY:

Louis Chevrolet (1878)
Born in Switzerland, Chevrolet was an auto mechanic who emigrated to the US in 1900 to race cars. In 1905, he drove a mile in a record 52.8 seconds. In 1911, he founded the Chevrolet Motor Company with support from General Motors founder William C. Durant and designed its first car. He sold his interest in 1915 but continued making racecars. His cars won the Indy 500 in 1920 and 1921. He later formed an aircraft company with his brother, but the venture failed. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 26, 2024, 06:29:52 AM
Puritan Oliver Cromwell outlawed Christmas celebrations and carols in England from 1649-1660. The only celebrations allowed were sermons and prayers.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 26, 2024, 06:30:48 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Boston Red Sox Sell Babe Ruth to the New York Yankees (1919)
Between 1914 and 1919, Ruth compiled an outstanding pitching record, but because pitchers do not play in every game, he was shifted to the outfield so that his powerful hitting could be used consistently. The following season, he was sold to the New York Yankees, and his batting feats and public personality helped salvage baseball's popularity, which had been damaged by the Black Sox scandal.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 29, 2024, 07:55:44 AM
The construction of the RMS Titanic began on March 31, 1909, at the Harland & Wolff shipyard in Belfast, Ireland. The shipyard employed around 14,000 to 15,000 men during the peak of construction. The building process involved more than 3,000,000 rivets to hold the steel plates in place, with the plates mostly 1.5 inches thick. Titanic was built under a massive gantry that stood 228 feet tall, the largest in the world at that time.

The construction spanned approximately 26 months from keel laying to launch, culminating with the launch on May 31, 1911. The ship's total cost was around $7.5 million in 1912, equivalent to approximately $166 million today. The ship was 882 feet 9 inches long, 92 feet 6 inches wide, and 175 feet tall from keel to the top of the funnels, with a gross tonnage of 46,328 tons.

Titanic's propulsion system included two reciprocating steam engines and one low-pressure turbine, driving three propellers. The central propeller was 17 feet in diameter and weighed 22 tons, while the two wing propellers were 23.5 feet in diameter and each weighed 38 tons.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on December 29, 2024, 02:17:40 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/72hZgg8.png)

I find this pretty neat and interesting.  Note that Germany and Italy didn't happen until 1870ish.  Spain, France, and the UK are basically "done" as they are today.  And look at the tiny blotch that was Sweden.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 29, 2024, 04:01:45 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Treaty of New Echota Is Signed (1835)
In 1835, a minority faction of the Cherokee tribe signed the Treaty of New Echota, which bound the entire tribe to move beyond the Mississippi River within three years. Although the Cherokee overwhelmingly repudiated the document and the US Supreme Court upheld the nation's autonomy, the state of Georgia forced their removal through military action. President Andrew Jackson refused to intervene, and thousands died on the march, known as the "Trail of Tears."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 30, 2024, 08:55:30 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Saddam Hussein Is Executed (2006)
During his presidency of Iraq from 1979 to 2003, Hussein instituted a brutal dictatorship, launching wars against Iran and Kuwait and directing campaigns against Iraqi minorities, particularly the Kurds. After an Anglo-American force invaded Iraq in 2003 and drove him from power, he spent several months in hiding but was captured by US forces. In 2006, the Iraqi High Tribunal sentenced him to death for crimes against humanity.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on December 31, 2024, 08:38:16 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Arthur Guinness Signs a 9,000-Year Lease on His Brewery (1759)
Guinness is a celebrated Irish dry stout that originated in the Dublin brewery of Arthur Guinness. When Guinness acquired his brewery, he famously signed a 9,000-year lease that fixed his annual rent at 45 pounds. From 1799, the brewery produced only its distinctive, dark, creamy Guinness stout, which became known as the national beer of Ireland.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 01, 2025, 09:31:19 AM
In 1917, Albert Einstein introduced the cosmological constant into his theory of general relativity in order to maintain a static universe, as it was widely believed at the time. 
However, just over a decade later, Edwin Hubble's observations of the expanding universe rendered the cosmological constant unnecessary. Einstein later referred to this as his "biggest blunder," although recent discoveries suggest that the constant might play a role in explaining dark energy.

(https://i.imgur.com/pRs7eXR.png)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 01, 2025, 11:19:59 AM
The late Ray Graves was born 106 years ago today. Pictured below: University of Florida head coach Ray Graves is carried off the field after the Gators defeated Georgia Tech 27-12 in the 1967 Orange Bowl. Graves was head coach at the University of Florida from 1960 to 1969. He led the Gators to their first New Year's Day bowl appearances, including the 1966 Sugar Bowl and 1967 Orange Bowl. His quarterback in both of those games was Steve Spurrier, who won the Heisman Trophy in 1966. Graves racked up a career record of 70-31-4, including a 4-1 record in bowl games.

But perhaps Graves' greatest contribution to the game was when he allowed Dr. Robert Cade, a professor in the University of Florida College of Medicine, to conduct dehydration analysis and rehydration experiments using team members which led to the formulation of Gatorade in 1965. After seeing remarkable results using Gatorade after an intrasquad scrimmage, Graves decided to make enough for the entire team for a game against LSU. The Gators would come from behind to win after LSU wilted in the 102 degree heat. Graves eventually told his close friend Hank Stram about Gatorade's effectiveness. It would eventually become the official drink of the NFL. Ray Graves passed away on April 10, 2015. He was 96 years old.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 01, 2025, 12:09:17 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/W3l6CPu.png)

We lived in the landing pattern for these things.  They looked like they were barely moving, probably around 2,000 feet AGL.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 01, 2025, 02:20:34 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) Takes Effect (1994)
Signed by Canada, Mexico, and the US, NAFTA created the world's largest free-trade area. The agreement immediately lifted tariffs on the majority of goods produced by the signatory nations, and it called for the gradual elimination of most of the remaining barriers to cross-border investment and to the movement of goods and services among the three countries. Critics claim that NAFTA has led to job loss in the US due to the prevalence of maquiladoras
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 01, 2025, 08:07:31 PM
Amzing story of Lucky Wright
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/gJ7a7E7Juzs?feature=share
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 01, 2025, 09:28:54 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ABcpQYH.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 01, 2025, 09:34:44 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/qo7Pd4q.png)

40 years Ago Larry Bird trash talking Julius Erving before their brawl: "Can you do any better?"
Philadelphia 76ers at Boston Celtics
November 9, 1984. The Celtics won 130-119.

The NBA ref remembered Bird trash-talking Dr. J before the two started choking each other.
At the start of the second half, Bavetta was left to officiate the contest by himself after Dennis Johnson dived for a loose ball and broke his colleague's leg. After the referee was carried off on a stretcher, Dick made his plea to both coaches.
"I get K.C. Jones, and I get Billy Cunningham and I said, 'Coaches, listen, I'm by myself, I'm gonna work for two men, I'm gonna work as hard as one person can possibly work. But this is only gonna be successful if I have your cooperation,'" Dick said on the Hall of Fame's "60 Days of Summer."
The contest turned into a Larry Bird show, with the Boston Celtics legend dropping 42 points on 17 of 23 from the field in a 130-119 victory over the Philadelphia 76ers. Julius Erving, on the other hand, had one of his worst games of the season, scoring only six points on 3 of 13 from the floor in 23 minutes of action.
"Of course, as luck would have it, Larry Bird has an unbelievable night. Every shot he took — Erving is guarding him — and as every shot went in that Larry took, he went further back and kept on saying to Erving, 'Aren't you going to guard me? Can you do any better?' He was the greatest softspoken trash talker I've ever met," Bavetta added.
Julius' frustration grew with every made basket. It culminated in the third quarter after the two exchanged words near the Celtics' bench following Bird's offensive foul on Dr. J.
"It got too much, and I look up and I see them choking each other... So I just kind of stepped back and watched what was going on, and in so doing, I informed them both Bird and Erving are gone... That was the first and only time both of them were thrown out of the game," Dick concluded.
The two Hall of Famers were fined $7,500, but didn't receive suspensions. The league levied a total of $30,500 in fines to 18 individuals involved in the brawl, including 17 players and the Sixers head coach.
Charles Barkley, Philadelphia's rookie at the time, also had to pay $1000 for his part in the fight. To this day, the legendary forward still hasn't forgiven the NBA for fining him.
"They fined me because they said I was holding Larry Bird so Dr. J could hit him. I was trying to break the fight up," Barkley said on "The Dan Patrick Show" in 2017. "I thought somebody had Doc. I didn’t know Doc was punching Bird when I was holding him."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 01, 2025, 10:17:53 PM
A salesman has his motorized roller skates refueled. Connecticut, 1961.

(https://i.imgur.com/UQ1Fq55.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 02, 2025, 08:45:13 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Second "Palmer Raid" Takes Place (1920)
During the "Red Scare" that followed World War I, US Attorney General Alexander Mitchell Palmer attempted to deport political radicals, dissidents, and aliens in the notorious "Palmer Raids." The first raid took place in late 1919. The second series of raids began in January 1920. In total, some 3,000 allegedly subversive aliens were rounded up for deportation. A few hundred were deported, but the vast majority were released. The raids were preceded by bombings
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 02, 2025, 11:32:45 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
1906 Willis Carrier receives a US patent for the world's first air conditioner - COOL
1912 Brookyln Superbas Baseball Club President Charles Ebbets announces purchase of 4.5 acres of land to build a new concrete-and-steel stadium to seat 23,000; Ebbets Field opens in 1913
1936Roger Miller American Grammy and Tony Award-winning country singer-songwriter ("King of the Road"; "Dang Me"), born in Fort Worth, Texas
1941 World War II: US government announces its Liberty ship program to build freighters in support of the war effort
1960 Senator John F. Kennedy, announces his candidacy for the US Presidency
1965 New York Jets sign future Pro Football Hall of Fame quarterback Joe Namath to a $427,000 contract over three years (pro football record at the time)
1999 A brutal snowstorm smashes into the Midwestern United States, causing 14 inches (359 mm) of snow in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and 19 inches (487 mm) in Chicago, where temperatures plunge to -13°F (-25°C); 68 deaths are reported
2023 Buffalo Bills player Damar Hamlin collapses in cardiac arrest and is revived by CPR on the field in televised NFL game against the Bengals in Cincinnati
Roger Miller American Grammy and Tony Award-winning country singer-songwriter ("King of the Road"; "Dang Me"), born in Fort Worth, Texas
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: SFBadger96 on January 02, 2025, 11:55:20 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:
1999 A brutal snowstorm smashes into the Midwestern United States, causing 14 inches (359 mm) of snow in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and 19 inches (487 mm) in Chicago, where temperatures plunge to -13°F (-25°C); 68 deaths are reported

I remember this pretty well. I was living in Tennessee and a couple of college friends had come down from Milwaukee and Chicago to visit over the holidays. They left early to get back home because of the storm.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 02, 2025, 12:01:25 PM
In the late 13th and early 12th centuries BC, the ancient world trembled as the Bronze Age collapsed in a convulsion of war, famine, and societal upheaval. Civilizations that had thrived for centuries—the Hittites in Anatolia, the Mycenaeans in Greece, and the sprawling Egyptian New Kingdom—crumbled in rapid succession. From 1200 to 1150 BC, mighty palaces were reduced to ash, trade networks vanished, and entire cities fell silent.

Amid this maelstrom appeared the Sea Peoples, an enigmatic confederation of raiders and migrants whose sudden, devastating incursions into the Mediterranean shattered the fragile order. “No land could stand before their arms,” lamented Pharaoh Ramses III, whose inscriptions at Medinet Habu immortalize his desperate victory over them. Yet who these Sea Peoples were remains one of history’s great mysteries, their origins obscured in legend and conjecture.

One tantalizing theory links the chaos to the echoes of Homeric legend. After a king (let’s call him Agamemnon) led his Mycenaean Greeks against the city of Troy in a campaign immortalized by Homer, the warriors returned to find their own cities in ruin—or perhaps they were already in ruin, prompting a desperate war against the Trojans. Regardless, a once-flourishing world was engulfed in famine, unrest, and waves of migration. Some scholars speculate that these displaced Mycenaeans became part of the Sea Peoples, their battle-hardened ranks wreaking havoc from Anatolia to the Levant. Some evidence supports this: Mycenaean-style pottery, unmistakably Greek, has been uncovered in archaeological digs near ancient Philistia—in modern-day Israel and Palestine—suggesting that some Sea Peoples settled there and gave rise to the Philistines. Could their descendants, forged in the crucible of the Bronze Age collapse, have carried forward a faint echo of Agamemnon’s bloodline? Biblical tradition whispers as much, for among the Philistines stood a giant named Goliath, his weapon and armor strangely Greek in design. When David felled him with a sling, was he slaying not merely a giant but the shadow of the Bronze Age’s fallen kings?


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 02, 2025, 01:45:20 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/torbonc.png)

Oat meal?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 02, 2025, 01:49:24 PM
a few drops of red food coloring?

must have been from michigan
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 02, 2025, 01:51:09 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/torbonc.png)

Oat meal?
@Utee94   
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 02, 2025, 01:52:46 PM
now yer just pokin @utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 02, 2025, 02:03:39 PM
Martial Law in the United States: Its Meaning, Its History, and Why the President Can’t Declare It | Brennan Center for Justice (https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/martial-law-united-states-its-meaning-its-history-and-why-president-cant)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 02, 2025, 02:18:28 PM
1999 A brutal snowstorm smashes into the Midwestern United States, causing 14 inches (359 mm) of snow in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and 19 inches (487 mm) in Chicago, where temperatures plunge to -13°F (-25°C); 68 deaths are reported.

We got stuck with this one. Our subdivision was new, and the roads had not been accepted yet by the village, so they did not have plowing responsibilities.

They plowed us in - probably an 8-10' high snow pile - and it was the only road in/out of our development.

So, I call about it to ask that the pile be moved and they said it wasn't their problem. Then I asked what would happen if there were a fire and the fire truck can't get through.

We were plowed out in about 15 minutes, and they even did our unaccepted road.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 02, 2025, 02:23:07 PM
I recall driving to work that morning, my minivan was pushing snow with the front bumper.  As I pulled into the parking lot, the radio said our company had closed that day.

Another driver next to me had pulled in as well and his transmission linkage had frozen so he couldn't get it out of park.  I ended up driving him home.

That minivan did pretty well in the snow.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 02, 2025, 02:59:17 PM
my memory isn't great, but I don't recall that storm

I do recall I was baskin in the glow of pounding the Horns in San Antonio of the Big 12 championship and the Vols in the 2000 Fiesta
__________________

Nebraska, which finished the game with 23 consecutive rushing plays for 156 yards, drove downfield and Tennessee (9-3) could do nothing to stop the clock from running out.

It was all too familiar for the Volunteers, who wore down in the second half two years ago in a 42-17 loss to Nebraska in the Orange Bowl. The Huskers have won their last 11 bowl matchups against Southeastern Conference teams.

_________________________

besides, 20 inches of snow and negative 15 degrees isn't a big deal here
I went to work that day, wasn't cancelled 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 02, 2025, 03:02:56 PM
Wisconsin won the Rose Bowl that year. 

They were the worst team to ever appear in the Rose Bowl game, I recall.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 02, 2025, 03:24:04 PM
maybe the worst from the B1G

the PAC had some real loooosers

like the Washington State squad in the 98 Rose
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 02, 2025, 03:26:24 PM
maybe the worst from the B1G

the PAC had some real loooosers

like the Washington State squad in the 98 Rose
Except, they won...

Much to chagrin of Craig James, who designated them as such.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 02, 2025, 03:30:26 PM
stoopid announcers get it wrong more often than we do

Osborne's 93 team couldn't compete with Bowden and Charlie Ward - 17 point dogs
Osborne's 94 team had no chance in Miami vs Warren Sapp
Osborne's dinosaur offense had no chance vs Spurrier's fun & gun in 95
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 02, 2025, 04:02:42 PM
So, I call about it to ask that the pile be moved and they said it wasn't their problem. Then I asked what would happen if there were a fire and the fire truck can't get through.

We were plowed out in about 15 minutes, and they even did our unaccepted road.
https://youtu.be/3DPKf7y1F-Q?t=6
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 02, 2025, 06:48:35 PM
@Utee94 
Don't know anything about oatmeal but I could be down for some pork chop and potato bake!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 03, 2025, 09:10:53 AM
1521 Martin Luther is excommunicated by Pope Leo X from the Roman Catholic Church for failing to recant parts of his Ninety-Five Theses, which started the Protestant Reformation

1777 General George Washington's Revolutionary Army defeats British forces at the Battle of Princeton, New Jersey

1852 First Chinese immigrants arrive in Hawaii

1870 Construction begins on New York's Brooklyn Bridge; completed May 24, 1883

1872 First patent list issued by the US Patent Office

1892 British author (The Hobbit; The Lord of the Rings), born in Bloemfontein, South Africa

1920 Boston Red Sox baseball club owner Harry Frazee announces agreement to sell slugger Babe Ruth to the New York Yankees for $125,000 in cash and a $350,000 loan; start of the 84 year "Curse of the Bambino"

1938 March of Dimes established to fight polio

1939 Bobby Hull Canadian Hockey HOF left winger born in Pointe Anne, Ontario

1952 "Dragnet" with Jack Webb premieres on NBC TV (just the facts mam)

1962 Pope John XXIII excommunicates Fidel Castro


1967 Jack Ruby American nightclub owner who murdered assassin Lee Harvey Oswald, dies of pulmonary embolism at 55

1973 A 12-man syndicate led by Michael Burke and George Steinbrenner III buys MLB's New York Yankees from CBS for US$10 million

1977 Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs incorporate Apple Computer, Inc.

1983 Dallas running back Tony Dorsett sets NFL record with 99-yard rush in the Cowboys' 31-27 defeat at Minnesota Vikings

1993 "The Comeback", QB Frank Reich leads Buffalo Bills back from a 32-point deficit, to defeat the Houston Oilers 41-38 in overtime in a wild card playoff game, the greatest comeback ever in NFL history

1994 35-foot-tall Chief Wahoo, trademark of Indians on top of Stadium since 1962, is taken down, to be moved to Jacob's Field

1994 Steve Young of the San Francisco 49ers becomes first quarterback to win 3 straight NFL passing titles despite a 37-34 OT loss to the Philadelphia Eagles; first to lodge 3 consecutive passer ratings of 100+

1996 First clamshell flip mobile phone, the Motorola StarTAC, goes on sale; eventually, 60 million are sold

2009 The Bitcoin network is created as the first block of the digital currency is mined by a person or group of people using the name Satoshi Nakamoto

2022 Apple becomes the first US company to be worth $3 trillion in value, after tripling its price in under four years 

2024 Lowest January temperature of -43.6 C (minus 46.5 F), recorded in Sweden for 25 years in Kvikkjokk-Årrenjarka, Swedish Lapland, amid a very cold spell across Scandinavia (paging global warming)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 03, 2025, 10:00:25 AM
1994 Steve Young of the San Francisco 49ers becomes first quarterback to win 3 straight NFL passing titles despite a 37-34 OT loss to the Philadelphia Eagles; first to lodge 3 consecutive passer ratings of 100+

better than Joe Montana
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 03, 2025, 01:59:10 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/23HfWVJ.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 03, 2025, 06:55:44 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

NASA's Mars Polar Lander Launched (1999)
The distance from Earth to Mars fluctuates between approximately 35 million mi (56 million km) and 63 million mi (101 million km). In 1999, NASA's Mars Polar Lander, on a mission to analyze soil samples, made the long journey to the Red Planet only to fail to re-establish communications following its entry into Mars's atmosphere. After the lander was declared lost, an investigation determined that it likely crashed onto the Martian surface.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 03, 2025, 07:02:20 PM
Geronimo goes to Washington
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/nwngf1YjNNk?feature=share
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on January 04, 2025, 08:37:30 AM
 

The Turkish word for a turkey is hindi, which literally means “Indian.” 

They can take it, and they can dish it. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 04, 2025, 08:51:30 AM
Turkey changed its name recently in English to something like Turkiye.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 04, 2025, 09:47:57 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Topsy the Elephant is Executed by Electrocution (1903)
Topsy was a circus elephant at Coney Island's Luna Park. After killing three people—at least one of whom was mistreating her at the time—in as many years, she was deemed a threat and scheduled to be put down. After hanging was ruled out after being deemed too cruel, Thomas Edison suggested electrocution in an attempt to further his campaign to portray alternating current electricity as dangerous. Electrocuted with 6,600 volts, Topsy died in seconds.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 04, 2025, 03:19:53 PM
General Walther von Brauchitsch, supreme commander of the Wehrmacht land forces, ordered a number of assault tanks to be developed in 1938. Their armament would match that of existing German tanks, but they would have 80 mm of front armour, which would allow them to assault even the most powerful anti-tank defenses at the time. Over time, the heavier tank projects were cancelled as impractical, but the lighter ones flew under the radar as their weight was not excessive.
One of the projects was indexed VK 18.01. This tank would have 80 mm of front armour, but puzzlingly the armament consisting of just two machine guns remained, severely limiting its value as an assault tank.
Construction of a pilot batch was approved on December 29th, 1939, but the work was not a priority. A prototype was finished in the summer of 1940 and delivery of the pilot batch only began in 1942, by which point it was no longer clear what these tanks were supposed to do. The fortifications that the VK 18.01 was supposed to assault back in 1938 were long gone and 80 mm of armour was no longer very impressive anyway. The tanks that were completed were sent to the front line in small batches, but their only success was in fighting partisans.




Another of Nazi Germany's wastes of resources, one of which was a nearly completed aircraft carrier with no purpose at all.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 04, 2025, 03:26:51 PM
U-Panzer. The Tauchpanzer was developed in mid-1940 for the planned invasion of England, codenamed Operation Sea Lion. These modified Pz Kpfw III tanks were equipped with submersion kits to operate underwater.
Air intakes were fitted with locking covers, and the exhaust system was modified with non-return valves. The cupola, gun mantlet, and hull-mounted machine gun were sealed with waterproof fabric covers, while an inflatable rubber tube secured the turret ring.
When submerged, the Tauchpanzer drew air through a snorkel device and radio antenna mounted on a float that remained above water.
A gyro-compass was used for underwater navigation, allowing the tanks to operate at depths of up to 15 meters. Deployment involved vessels equipped with hinged ramps that released the tanks at a distance from shore.
After Operation Sea Lion was canceled, the Tauchpanzers were repurposed. By spring 1941, at Milowitz near Prague, most were modified for river crossings, featuring fixed snorkel pipes attached through the commander’s cupola.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 04, 2025, 03:32:40 PM
San Diego vs Parris Island: Who has the toughest Marine boot camp? (https://taskandpurpose.com/news/marine-boot-camp-parris-island-vs-san-diego/?fbclid=IwY2xjawHmeWRleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHSlOWEHq8gFhYV9R-BU6YUxWB3kvoVIaC6kCnCmRTj3W6RPJWug3GsVnhQ_aem_Biqyp1HWMwt9OTmezUs5gA)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 04, 2025, 03:49:15 PM
My son would say San Diego.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 05, 2025, 09:02:50 AM
1. Austin is home to the largest urban bat colony in North America, with over 1.5 million bats flying from under the Congress Avenue Bridge at sunset.
2. The University of Texas in Austin has one of only five Gutenberg Bibles on permanent display, a rare artifact printed in the 1450s.
3. The Texas State Capitol building in Austin is 14 feet taller than the U.S. Capitol in Washington, D.C., making it the largest state capitol building in the country.
4. Austin has its own official font, ATX Hackney, created to reflect the city's creativity and was commissioned by the Austin Independent School District.
5. The city is the self-proclaimed "Live Music Capital of the World" due to its record number of live music venues per capita, even more than Los Angeles or Nashville.
6. You’ll find a moonlight tower in Austin — one of only 17 left in the world, a lighting system installed in the 1890s to illuminate the city streets.
7. The Alamo Drafthouse Cinema, a beloved national chain known for its unique movie-going experience, originated in Austin and blends dining with films.
8. Austin’s motto, “Keep Austin Weird,” originated from a campaign to support small local businesses, and it’s now an identity symbol for the city’s unique culture.
9. Austin has an unusual law that permits public nudity as long as it’s on private property and not for commercial purposes.
10. Barton Springs Pool, a natural spring-fed pool in Austin, has been a popular swimming spot for thousands of years, even among Native Americans who believed the springs had spiritual powers.
11. Before settling on “Austin,” the city was originally named “Waterloo” and was meant to be a river trading post.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 05, 2025, 09:23:47 AM
1781 British naval expedition led by Benedict Arnold burns Richmond, Virginia
1846 The United States House of Representatives votes to stop sharing the Oregon Territory with the United Kingdom
1886 "Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde" by Robert Louis Stevenson published by Longmans, Green & Co.
1896 "Die Presse" newspaper (Germany) publicly announces Wilhelm Röntgen's discovery of X-rays and their potential for new methods of medical diagnoses in a front-page article
1904 -42°F (-41.1°C), Smethport, Pennsylvania (state record)
1914 Industrialist Henry Ford announces his $5 minimum per-day wage, doubling most workers pay from $2.40 for a 9hr day to $5 for an 8hr day
1930 Bonnie Parker meets Clyde Barrow for the first time at Clarence Clay's house
1933 Work on Golden Gate Bridge begins, starting on the Marin County side
1940 FCC hears the 1st transmission of FM radio with clear, static-free signal
1959 Buddy Holly releases his last record "It Doesn't Matter"; he is killed in a plane crash 29 days later
1970 American daytime soap opera "All My Children" premieres on ABC
1972 Largest crowd at Cleveland Arena (Cavs vs Lakers-11,178)
1973 Columbia Records releases Bruce Springsteen's debut album "Greetings from Asbury Park, N.J."
1981 Peter Sutcliffe, a truck driver confesses that he is the "Yorkshire Ripper" and murdered 13 women
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 05, 2025, 09:51:01 AM
1973 Columbia Records releases Bruce Springsteen's debut album "Greetings from Asbury Park, N.J."
Apparently, the Boss added vocal support to the chorus of this song

https://youtu.be/whuPqh8DVls
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 05, 2025, 10:08:00 AM
Happy birthday to Sir Isaac Newton, born on this day in 1642 (according to the Gregorian calendar)! Many historians consider him to be the first modern physicist. He explained how gravity affects objects on Earth and in space with his three laws of motion. Newton showed that these laws apply to everything in the universe, from galaxies to grains of sand. He also invented the reflecting telescope.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 05, 2025, 11:45:14 AM
JET Engine Basics
A jet engine is a gas turbine engine. A jet engine develops thrust by accelerating a relatively small mass of air to very high velocity, as opposed to a propeller, which develops thrust by accelerating a much larger mass of air to a much slower velocity.
(https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/t7a/1/16/31_20e3.png) Piston and gas turbine engines are internal combustion engines and have a similar basic cycle of operation; that is, induction, compression, combustion, expansion, and exhaust. Air is taken in and compressed, and fuel is injected and burned. The hot gases then expand and supply a surplus of power over that required for compression and are finally exhausted. In both piston and jet engines, the efficiency of the cycle is improved by increasing the volume of air taken in and the compression ratio.
(https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/t99/1/16/32_20e3.png) In theory, the jet engine is simpler and more directly converts thermal energy (the burning and expansion of gases) into mechanical energy (thrust). The piston or reciprocating engine, with all of its moving parts, must convert the thermal energy into mechanical energy and then finally into thrust by rotating a propeller
(https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/tb8/1/16/33_20e3.png) One of the advantages of the jet engine over the piston engine is the jet engine’s capability of producing much greater amounts of thrust horsepower at the high altitudes and high speeds. In fact, turbojet engine efficiency increases with altitude and speed.
(https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/td7/1/16/34_20e3.png) Although the propeller-driven airplane is not nearly as efficient as the jet, particularly at the higher altitudes and cruising speeds required in modern aviation, one of the few advantages the propeller-driven airplane has over the jet is that maximum thrust is available almost at the start of the takeoff roll.
(https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/tf6/1/16/35_20e3.png) Like other gas turbine engines, the heart of the turbofan engine is the gas generator - the part of the engine that produces the hot, high-velocity gases. Similar to turboprops, turbofans have a low-pressure turbine section that uses most of the energy produced by the gas generator. The low pressure turbine is mounted on a concentric shaft that passes through the hollow shaft of the gas generator, connecting it to a ducted fan at the front of the engine.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 05, 2025, 12:12:07 PM
Born on this day
1928 Walter Mondale American politician & 42nd Vice President, 1977-81, born in Ceylon, Minnesota
1931 Robert Duvall American award-winning actor and filmmaker (The Godfather; Apocalypse Now; M*A*S*H (film); Great Santini; Taxi Driver), born in San Diego, California
1932 Chuck Noll American Pro Football HOF coach (Super Bowl 1974, 75, 78, 79; Pittsburgh Steelers 1969-91), born in Cleveland, Ohio
1938 Jim Otto, American Pro Football HOF center (First-team All-AFL & AFL All-Star; 3 x Pro Bowl; Oakland Raiders), born in Wausau, Wisconsin
1946 Dianne Keaton American actress (Annie Hall, Little Drummer Girl), born in Los Angeles, California
1961 Iris DeMent, American country singer ("Our Town"), born in Paragould, Arizona
1969 Marylin Manson,American shock-rock singer-songwriter (Marilyn Manson - "The Dope Show"; "Tainted Love"), artist and actor, born in Canton, Ohio
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 05, 2025, 12:59:03 PM
Bearn was France’s first aircraft carrier. Through a combination of bad design and bad luck, it had no effect on the outcome of WWII. As this was France’s first aircraft carrier, there was no experience to go on and Bearn had some strange features. The flight deck was contoured to match the shape of the bow and stern, even there was no real reason requiring it. The flight deck overall measured 590’9″ however the rear portion was sloped downwards, in the thought that a plane coming in too low might “ride it up” to the flight deck instead of smacking into the transom. Likewise, the forward tip of the flight deck was sloped down a lesser angle. Both angled portions were essentially wasted space. There were no catapults. Bearn commissioned without arresting wires; to land, a plane had to hook a rope weighed down with sandbags. Every carrier design with centreline elevators runs the risk of a down-jam, rendering the flight deck unusable. But on Bearn, even if the elevators had an up-jam, it would equally block the flight deck. Combined with the strange engine set-up, the weight of the belt armor and casemate guns limited Bearn to just 21kts. Even this speed could only be maintained for short periods. France’s efforts to work up an air wing for Bearn were a disaster. The original fighter was the Levy-Biche LB2 biplane. It was made of untreated wood and canvas and unsuitable for naval use, and was replaced after a year by obsolete Dewoitine D1C1s.

(https://i.imgur.com/xGzG828.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 05, 2025, 01:37:09 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Construction Begins on California's Golden Gate Bridge (1933)
For 27 years after its completion in 1937, the Golden Gate Bridge had the longest main span in the world, stretching 4,200 ft (1,280 m). Its four-year construction, supervised by chief engineer Joseph B. Strauss, faced many difficulties, including rapidly running tides, frequent storms and fogs, and the problem of blasting rock under deep water to plant earthquake-resistant foundations. Considered a modern wonder, the bridge spans the Golden Gate
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 06, 2025, 09:18:31 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Samuel Morse Successfully Tests the Electrical Telegraph (1838)
In 1832, Morse, an American painter-turned-inventor, began working on a system for transmitting messages as electrical pulses across a wire. Five years later, he was granted a patent for his electromagnetic telegraph, and he successfully tested the device a year after that. Public use of Morse's telegraph system, as well as the code he developed to represent letters and numbers as electrical pulses, began in 1844 and lasted over 100 years.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 07, 2025, 06:49:17 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/o25mxAX.png)

I worked in the paper field for a while, found it pretty interesting overall.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 07, 2025, 08:26:37 AM
Ya I recycle to
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 07, 2025, 09:46:56 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/BKwQ4OF.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 07, 2025, 10:14:00 AM
Chili has a long history that goes back to the 1800s in Texas, where it was commonly eaten by cowboys on the trails. The dish was easy to make and perfect for long journeys, as it provided warmth and energy. The cowboys would cook it over campfires, and it quickly gained popularity as a hearty meal.
In the 19th century, chili became widely known thanks to the chili queens in San Antonio. These women would prepare and sell chili in the streets, making it even more famous among locals and visitors. Their colorful stalls and delicious recipes attracted many people, turning chili into a beloved specialty of Texas.
In 1977, Texas officially recognized chili as its state dish, showing how important it is to the state's culture and history. This acknowledgment celebrates the rich flavors and traditions that chili represents, and it highlights the deep-rooted connection between the dish and the people of Texas. Today, chili continues to be enjoyed in many homes and restaurants, remaining a symbol of Texas pride.


(https://i.imgur.com/M9eXo4u.png)

@utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) 

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 07, 2025, 10:19:25 AM
There are surprisingly few chili parlors these days, and the number seems to be dwindling.  BBQ restaurants on the other hand, are absolutely exploding.

Chili is a dish that's more often prepared at home, while the long hours and specific equipment used for BBQ, seem to make it a more likely restaurant candidate.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 07, 2025, 10:22:50 AM
chili soup is very popular here in restaurants, especially this time of year

as a soup of the day or just a soup staple on the menu

often as a "special" at lunch time with a grilled cheese sammich

but, no chili parlors or places that serve chili as their main offering 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 07, 2025, 10:25:16 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/FiuLvbg.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 07, 2025, 10:26:03 AM
Some restaurants have chili on the menu, but not as many as I'd expect.  The ones that tend toward comfort food, or diner-style, might have it.  

But chili parlors used to be a lot more prevalent.  Folks really do seem to make it at home more, than ordering out.  Makes sense, I know I can make better chili than anyone else out there, and it's not particularly difficult.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 07, 2025, 10:28:33 AM
There was a chili parlor in Chapel Hill back in the day, it was pretty good I thought, served it over rice which is where I got my preference.  I'm sure the most "chili parlors" by far are in Cincinnati.  When I first interviewed there I thought it was cool because I really like "chili".  So, my first night by myself I go to one and order chili and get all these bizarre questions about what kind, so I ended up with "just chili", and thought it was horrible.  I didn't go back for years until folks at work said I didn't get the right kind.

I do miss it on occasion now.

You can pass 3-4-5 chili places in Cincy in a few blocks.

My own "chili" is what utee calls "Mexican spaghetti".
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 07, 2025, 01:06:46 PM
Paul Dirac wasn't just a brilliant theoretical physicist; he was a man whose very presence sparked fascination and bewilderment. Often referred to as “the strangest man in the world” by his colleagues, this title was coined by Niels Bohr, who had the privilege—and challenge—of working with Dirac. Their relationship, initially professional, eventually blossomed into a human bond marked by moments that only someone like Dirac could inspire.
Dirac’s brilliance wasn’t just in his groundbreaking contributions to physics, but in his extraordinarily peculiar approach to life itself. His communication style was as precise and unembellished as his theories. Niels Bohr, struggling to complete a scientific paper, once confessed, “I don’t know how to go on.” Dirac, ever the purist in logic, responded coldly, “I was taught in school that you should never start a sentence without knowing the end.”
And this stark, almost robotic demeanor wasn’t limited to his work. At one dinner, a fellow guest casually remarked, “Nice evening, isn’t it?” Dirac, without missing a beat, stood up, walked to the window to check the weather, and returned with the uncharacteristically succinct reply: “Yes.”
But it was his social awkwardness that painted him as the quintessential oddball. At a Copenhagen party, Dirac proposed a theory on the optimal distance from a woman’s face at which it appears most attractive—backed by his own research, of course. His response to a curious colleague’s question about his personal experience was both absurd and perfectly Dirac: “About that close,” he said, holding his palms about a meter apart.
Then there was the famous incident at the University of Toronto, when, after delivering a lecture, he was asked a question by a student. Dirac’s response? “This is not a question, it is an observation. Next question, please.”
Yet, despite all his brilliance, Dirac's discomfort with philosophy, literature, and even religion was profound. He dismissed poetry as “saying something that everyone already knows in words no one can understand” and offered a scathing critique of religion, claiming that scientists must acknowledge its absurdity. In Dirac’s worldview, God may have used extraordinary mathematics to create the universe, but it was Dirac who, humorously, became known as "His prophet," according to his contemporary Wolfgang Pauli.
In every moment, Dirac's life seemed to blur the line between genius and eccentricity, leaving those who encountered him to wonder: was he a physicist of the highest order, or simply the strangest man to ever walk the earth?


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 07, 2025, 01:17:48 PM
Weird 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 07, 2025, 01:21:39 PM
A dirac is a unit of conversation that refers to speaking at a rate of one word per hour. It's an anecdotal unit of measurement that's based on the speaking style of Nobel-prize winning physicist Paul Dirac. His colleagues at Cambridge are said to have come up with the term as a joke, but Dirac's tendency to speak sparingly was actually a result of his childhood.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 07, 2025, 01:43:46 PM
Wouldn't shock me, based on that description, if Dirac is someone who would score highly if tested for what used to be known as Asperger's Syndrome, and is now just considered a high functioning expression of autism. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 07, 2025, 01:55:44 PM
Paul Dirac: a physicist of few words | Nature (https://www.nature.com/articles/459326a)

Farmelo concludes The Strangest Man by analysing Dirac's singular character and genius. He makes a sound case that Dirac was autistic, and argues that his behavioural traits were crucial to his success as a theoretical physicist. Cambridge in the 1920s was the ideal environment for him: tolerant of eccentricity; college life providing for his every need; the rules of dining at High Table enabling a rigidly predictable form of social contact. These unusual circumstances enabled Dirac's special genius to flower. As to autism, this is thought to be caused by disrupted brain development, which can show up as irregularities in brain tissue. These can be visualized using positron emission tomography scans — the medical application of Dirac's antimatter. Irony indeed.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 07, 2025, 05:49:24 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Galileo Galilei Discovers Three of Jupiter's Four Largest Moons (1610)
Jupiter has more than 60 moons. The four largest—Io, Europa, Ganymede, and Callisto—were the first satellites of a planet other than Earth to be detected. They were discovered by Galileo in 1610, shortly after he invented the telescope, and are therefore known as the Galilean satellites. On January 7, 1610, Galileo observed near Jupiter what he described at the time as "three fixed stars, totally invisible by their smallness."
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 08, 2025, 08:27:40 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/xquQeDD.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 08, 2025, 08:36:37 AM
they accomplished this w/o Elon???
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 08, 2025, 09:49:25 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/34Hi9aT.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 08, 2025, 09:53:24 AM
They obviously copied us:

(https://i.imgur.com/8kCzTW3.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 08, 2025, 10:35:25 AM
a better place for oatmeal than chili
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 08, 2025, 11:27:20 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/FPt9rNL.png)

Some of the Britons forced out of their land went to France to establish ... Brittany, where the spoke Breton.

Then later of course the "Norsemen" raided France and settled in land now called Normandy.  

Then the Normans decided they wanted to take over England, and did in 1066.

This is why the English language had so many influences, not to mention the Latin used there before this.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 08, 2025, 11:49:40 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

President Lyndon B. Johnson Declares a "War on Poverty" (1964)
During his first State of the Union address, President Johnson outlined a vast program of economic and social welfare legislation designed to create what he termed the "Great Society." As part of this platform, Johnson called for a nationwide "War on Poverty" in response to a high national poverty rate. Johnson's call led Congress to pass the Economic Opportunity Act, legislation that established an agency to administer federal funds targeted against poverty.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 08, 2025, 12:47:41 PM
On January 6, 1976 Ted Turner, a millionaire communications executive and internationally known yachtsman, buys the Atlanta Braves for a reported $12 million. Turner would officially be approved as the Braves' new owner on January 14th. Then the owner of WTCG-TV, Turner purchased 100% of the Braves to provide sports programming for his local channel 17. On December 17, 1976, when the FCC grants a permit to the station, later rechristened WTBS, to use a satellite to broadcast shows on cable networks, the franchise becomes available to millions of subscribers nationwide. The decision to begin offering TBS via satellite transmission to cable and satellite subscribers throughout the United States expanded the small station into the first nationally distributed "superstation”, turning the Braves into a household name. Turner then wore an Indian headdress at the Braves' 1976 home opener. In 1977, Turner decided to become team manager during a 17-game losing streak. He lost to Pittsburgh, 2-1 at the Pirates' Three Rivers Stadium. Turner's tenure in the dugout lasted only one game as Commissioner Bowie Kuhn banished him upstairs. Turner even thought about changing the name of the team to the Atlanta Eagles in a full franchise rebrand, tying in with the NBA’s Hawks and the NFL’s Falcons, which he thankfully let die. Turner owned the Braves for 21 years, until he sold them in 1996 as part of Turner Broadcasting's merger with Time-Warner.(https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/emoji.php/v9/t30/1/16/26be.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 08, 2025, 01:22:54 PM
In 1902, Chattanooga, Tennessee, was home to one of the most unique transportation systems of the time: the incline railroad. This iconic rail line, which ascended Lookout Mountain, provided both a practical means of travel and a stunning view of the surrounding landscape. The incline railroad, also known as the Lookout Mountain Incline Railway, was designed to carry passengers up the steep slopes of the mountain, offering a quick and scenic route to the top. The image from 1902 captures the grandeur of this engineering marvel, with its tracks cutting through the rugged terrain of the mountain.
The incline railroad played an essential role in Chattanooga’s development, attracting tourists and boosting the local economy by making Lookout Mountain more accessible. The line offered passengers an unparalleled view of the Tennessee River and the city below, showcasing the beauty of the region. For many, the incline railroad became a popular attraction, offering an exciting ride and a chance to see the natural wonders of the area from above. Its unique design, with its steep grade and funicular-style cars, made it one of the most memorable landmarks of early 20th-century Chattanooga.
The incline railroad remains an enduring symbol of the city’s history and innovation. Though the original structure has undergone renovations and changes over the years, the Lookout Mountain Incline Railway still operates today, offering visitors a chance to experience the same breathtaking views and steep ride that captivated those who rode it in 1902. This photograph from the Detroit Publishing Company serves as a nostalgic reminder of Chattanooga’s pioneering spirit and its ability to blend transportation with the natural beauty of its surroundings.

(https://i.imgur.com/LsZQNo8.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 08, 2025, 01:46:52 PM
There's a canyon near Monterrey, Mexico, that used to have an inclined railroad like that.  It was crazy because when you get on, your seat is angled at something like 30-40 degrees.  And for a while, at the bottom of the incline, you stay that way.  But as you climb and the angle changes, eventually you're sitting correctly, parallel to the flat plane of the earth, and you stay that way throughout the remainder of the climb.  The platform at the top is actually multi-level and you can exit the car at the front or back, which is actually the top or bottom at that point.  Great views.

This is what it looked like back when:

(https://i.imgur.com/aDa3mC4.jpeg)

And now in the 40-something years since I last visited, it appears that they have installed a gondola lift that traverses the same area and has replaced the old inclined rail.

(https://i.imgur.com/rHq0RAL.png)

 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 09, 2025, 10:25:12 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Davy Lamp Tested at Hebburn Colliery (1816)
The Davy lamp was an early safety lamp used in the mining and quarrying industries. It was designed by English chemist and physicist Sir Humphrey Davy to prevent the accidental ignition of flammable gases. This was achieved by enclosing the flame of the oil-burning lamp in wire gauze that distributed heat over a large area and brought its temperature below the ignition temperature of methane.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 13, 2025, 10:49:42 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First Successful Escape from an Aircraft Using the Ejection Seat (1942)
Ejection seats are used in aircraft to quickly propel occupants out in an emergency. Today, they are fired by an explosive charge, but the first ejection seats were powered by compressed air. One of the first aircrafts to be fitted with such a system was the German Heinkel He 280 prototype jet fighter. While testing the He 280 during WWII, pilot Helmut Schenk became the first person to use an ejection seat to make an emergency escape from an aircraft.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 14, 2025, 11:16:45 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Felice Orsini Attempts to Assassinate French Emperor Napoleon III (1858)
Orsini was an Italian revolutionary in the movement for Italian unification. In 1858, he made an attempt on the life of Napoleon III, whom he held responsible for the failure of the Italian revolutions of 1848 to 1849. Although ably defended by French statesman Jules Favre, Orsini was executed. His act, designed to arouse world interest in the Italian cause, paradoxically influenced Napoleon's own decision to intervene in favor of Italian unification.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 18, 2025, 11:18:30 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
WWII: First Armed Insurgency in Warsaw Ghetto (1943)
The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising was the Jewish armed resistance that took place in the Warsaw Ghetto of Nazi-occupied Poland during WWII. By July 1942, the Nazis had forced 500,000 Jews into the Warsaw Ghetto. Starvation killed thousands each month and thousands more were transferred to "labor" camps every day. When word reached the ghetto that the destination was actually the gas chambers at Treblinka, the newly formed Jewish insurgency attacked the Nazis.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 18, 2025, 07:30:04 PM
Most Chaotic Baseball Game of All Time
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/NBjEh7HyPfw?feature=share
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 18, 2025, 11:37:50 PM
The WILDEST Love Triangle in History

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/hEJ-1pZkrs4?feature=share
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 19, 2025, 09:47:48 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Apple Lisa Launched (1983)
In 1983, after five years of development, Apple released the Lisa, the first personal computer with a graphical user interface. Although the Lisa was a commercial failure—due in part to its initial price tag of $9,995—it had a significant impact on the computer industry. It is often rumored to have been named after the first daughter of Apple's Steve Jobs, though several acronyms have been ascribed to the name.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 19, 2025, 10:12:25 AM
Remember back when Apple was actually BAD at marketing?  A different world now.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 21, 2025, 10:14:46 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Louis XVI of France Is Guillotined (1793)
Louis XVI was the king of France during the complex sociopolitical conflict that culminated in the French Revolution, but he was shy, dull, and corpulent and lacked the leadership skills necessary for the job. During the revolution, he was caught attempting to flee the Tuileries palace in disguise, and when proof of his counterrevolutionary actions emerged, he was tried for treason and beheaded.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 21, 2025, 10:15:08 AM
Both President Reagan and Soviet Premier Mikhail Gorbachev agreed that they would pause the Cold War if there was ever an alien invasion.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 21, 2025, 10:23:18 AM
Both President Reagan and Soviet Premier Mikhail Gorbachev agreed that they would pause the Cold War if there was ever an alien invasion.
Do all of the alien lights in New Jersey count?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 22, 2025, 10:50:52 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The January Uprising Begins (1863)
The January Uprising began as a spontaneous rebellion of young Poles in Russian Poland against conscription into the Imperial Russian Army. They were soon joined by Lithuanians living in the territory, but they were severely outnumbered and isolated, and they failed to win any major victories or capture any major cities. The Russians crushed the uprising and began an intensive program of Russification.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 22, 2025, 02:36:40 PM
The Russians crushed the uprising and began an intensive program of Russification.
Like to send the poor desecrated wokesters to a couple of those classes
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 24, 2025, 09:08:30 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

California Gold Rush Begins (1848)
In 1848, the same year California became a part of the US, another major event in the state's history occurred. While establishing a sawmill for John Sutter, James W. Marshall discovered gold and touched off the California gold rush. The gold-rush miners, known as forty-niners, came in droves, spurred by the promise of fabulous riches from the so-called Mother Lode, and San Francisco became a boom town.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 25, 2025, 09:33:10 PM
The largest combat two-handed sword or
"Big Pierre's sword"
2.15 meters (7 feet) long; weight 6.6 kg.
It was manufactured in Passau, Germany, in the 15th century and is now kept in the museum of the city of Leeuwarden Frisia, the Netherlands.
The sword's handle is made of oak wood and covered with a single piece of goat skin taken from the foot, so avoiding the necessity for a seam.
The blade is marked "Inri" (Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews).
Supposedly this sword belonged to the rebel and pirate Pierre Gerlofs Donia known as "Big Pierre", who, according to legend, could cut off several heads of them at once. He had also bent coins using his thumb, forefinger and middle finger.
According to legend, this sword was brought to Friesland by the German Landsknechts and was used as a banner, and this sword captured by Pierre began to be used as a combat one.


(https://i.imgur.com/VX9pjhz.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 25, 2025, 09:47:08 PM
USS Eaton was a fletcher class destroyer. The BB64 went into dry dock and they basically chopped off the front bow of the unfinished IOWA class BB66 (Kentucky) and grafted it on the Wisconsin. Thus the nickname 'Big WisKy'.

(https://i.imgur.com/B75sROv.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 26, 2025, 09:15:21 AM
King Zog

Zog I, born Ahmet Zogolli, was president of Albania from 1925 to 1928 and king from 1928 to 1939. During the worldwide depression of the 1930s, Zog's government became almost completely dependent on Italy. Ultimately unable to check Italian dictator Benito Mussolini's increasing control over his country, Zog was forced into exile. He formally abdicated in 1946, when Albania became a communist republic after WWII.

(https://i.imgur.com/8IBRqD9.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 27, 2025, 08:39:46 AM
The Day After Roswell

In his book The Day After Roswell, US Army Lt. Colonel Philip Corso claims he participated in the study of extraterrestrial technology recovered from the alleged 1947 Roswell UFO crash. According to Corso, the reverse engineering of these artifacts indirectly led to the development of accelerated particle beam devices, fiber optics, lasers, integrated circuit chips, and Kevlar. Corso also claimed knowledge of a covert government group that had been tasked with what?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 27, 2025, 08:42:09 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

National Geographic Society Founded (1888)
The National Geographic Society is one of the largest non-profit scientific and educational institutions in the world. It was founded in 1888 by a small group of eminent explorers and scientists and, by the turn of the 21st century, boasted approximately nine million members. It has supported more than 7,000 major scientific projects and expeditions, including those of the Leakey family, Jacques Cousteau, and Jane Goodall.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 27, 2025, 09:08:15 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Donna Reed (1921)
Reed was an American film and television actress. In 1946, she starred in Frank Capra's It's a Wonderful Life, playing Mary Bailey—the wife of James Stewart's character, George Bailey. She went on to win the 1953 Academy Award for Best Supporting Actress for her role in From Here to Eternity and later received a Golden Globe for Best Female TV Star for her performance as Donna Stone in The Donna Reed Show.


Born: January 27, 1921, Denison, IA
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2025, 08:03:30 AM
Planck's Quantum Theory and Einstein's Quantum Theory are both foundational to modern physics, but they differ in their approaches and the specific phenomena they explain. Here's a comparative analysis:
1. Planck's Quantum Theory (1900)
Context: Planck's theory was developed to explain the black-body radiation problem. Classical physics predicted infinite energy emissions from a black body at higher frequencies, but experiments showed that radiation intensity decreased beyond a certain frequency.— in
Key Concept: Planck introduced the idea of quantized energy levels. He suggested that energy is emitted or absorbed in discrete packets called quanta, with the energy of each quantum being proportional to the frequency (), where  is Planck's constant, and  is the frequency of the radiation.
Mathematical Model: Planck's formula for black-body radiation resolved the ultraviolet catastrophe and accurately described the observed spectrum.
Impact: Planck's theory marked the birth of quantum theory, showing that energy is not continuous but instead exists in small, discrete units.
2. Einstein's Quantum Theory (1905)
Context: Einstein's contribution focused on the photoelectric effect, where light shining on a metal surface ejects electrons. Classical wave theory predicted a delay in electron emission based on intensity, but experiments showed that electrons were emitted immediately when the light frequency exceeded a threshold, regardless of intensity.
Key Concept: Einstein extended Planck's idea of quanta to light itself, proposing that light is not only a wave but also consists of particles called photons. These photons carry energy quantized as , where  is the frequency of light.
Explanation of the Photoelectric Effect: According to Einstein, photons with energy  collide with electrons, transferring energy and causing electron ejection. If the photon energy is below a certain threshold frequency, no electrons are emitted, regardless of light intensity.
Impact: Einstein's explanation provided strong evidence for the particle nature of light and contributed to the development of quantum mechanics.
Key Differences:
1. Conceptual Focus:
Planck focused on the quantization of energy in the context of radiation.
Einstein extended this to explain the particle nature of light (photons) and the photoelectric effect.
2. Application:
Planck's theory was mostly concerned with thermal radiation (black-body radiation).
Einstein's theory dealt with the interaction between light and matter (photoelectric effect).
3. Implications for Light:
Planck's quantum theory implied that radiation energy is quantized, but it did not specifically address light's dual nature.
Einstein's theory was crucial for the development of the wave-particle duality of light, showing that light has both particle and wave characteristics.
Conclusion:
Both theories were pivotal in advancing quantum mechanics, with Planck laying the groundwork for quantization and Einstein expanding it by demonstrating the particle nature of light. While Planck addressed energy quantization, Einstein's work focused on light's interaction with matter, marking a critical step in the development of modern quantum theory.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 28, 2025, 11:10:19 AM
My daughter is currently taking AP Physics in high school, and I'm having a great time helping her with her homework and studies.  I really do love Physics, it's just so interesting to me to study the fundamental natures of movement and being, within the physical and electromagnetic universe.

Unfortunately she doesn't find it nearly so interesting, but she IS understanding it and doing well, which I suppose is all I can really ask for.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2025, 11:19:51 AM
I think finding it interesting is quite important though, even if one struggles with it.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 28, 2025, 11:28:15 AM
Oh yeah, when it comes to academics, I believe it's much easier to be good at it, if you find it interesting.  For example, I really really disliked Biology.  The Life Sciences really just don't interest me.  So for me I had to really work a lot harder to maintain top grades in that class.  The saving grace for me, is that there was just a lot of rote memorization, which I've always been quite good at.  At my best I've had a near photographic memory, I can recall tests in history class when I could literally picture the pages of the book, and recall the answers from the words on that page.

My memory is no longer that sharp of course, and there are days where I've forgotten where I put my keys, and find them days later, in a linen closet or something.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2025, 11:41:19 AM
I had a terrific professor in orgchem which is why I ended up there.  He recently passed and I sent a note to the department head about his influence on me.

I was about to change my major to computer science which I also really liked a lot.  

I also disliked Biology.  I never took any biochem.  I kinda liked math at times.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 28, 2025, 12:09:16 PM
I can't say I "hated" biology, but it really never grabbed my interest. I disliked chemistry. Definitely knew I wouldn't be a ChemE lol...

I really enjoyed physics. And being a computer geek in high school, going EE was pretty much a given. 

@utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) question for you on how things work in Texas... When I was in HS in Illinois, AP physics was two semesters and included both statics/mechanics and E&M, and the AP version was calculus based. I don't recall there ever being a non-calculus AP at the time...

My son (Jr in HS) is taking AP Physics 1, which is algebra-based. Next year he has the opportunity to take AP Physics 2, which still isn't calc-based. Apparently that's now AP Physics C, but most schools here in our district don't offer the E&M portion, only statics/mechanics, and it's a full year. His teacher is retiring this year and apparently was the only teacher in the district who taught E&M, but next year his school isn't even offering the statics/mechanics portion of AP Physics C as they don't have anyone to teach it... 

Is this similar to what is offered in TX? 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2025, 12:16:48 PM
My kid's HS offered IB courses in physics and biology but not chemistry.  Apparently the chem teacher didn't want to bother getting "certified".  I never really understood the difference on the ground between IB and AP, there is a difference in how they are perceived overseas.  My son took three years of IB physics, the third year class had 3 students in it.  I'm not sure they really did that much.

We didn't have either when I was in HS.  They had 1, 2, and 3 level courses, that was it.  They did have calculus and second year chemistry, but only one year of physics.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 28, 2025, 12:29:07 PM
I can't say I "hated" biology, but it really never grabbed my interest. I disliked chemistry. Definitely knew I wouldn't be a ChemE lol...

I really enjoyed physics. And being a computer geek in high school, going EE was pretty much a given.

@utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) question for you on how things work in Texas... When I was in HS in Illinois, AP physics was two semesters and included both statics/mechanics and E&M, and the AP version was calculus based. I don't recall there ever being a non-calculus AP at the time...

My son (Jr in HS) is taking AP Physics 1, which is algebra-based. Next year he has the opportunity to take AP Physics 2, which still isn't calc-based. Apparently that's now AP Physics C, but most schools here in our district don't offer the E&M portion, only statics/mechanics, and it's a full year. His teacher is retiring this year and apparently was the only teacher in the district who taught E&M, but next year his school isn't even offering the statics/mechanics portion of AP Physics C as they don't have anyone to teach it...

Is this similar to what is offered in TX?

It's similar here now, sounds pretty much the same.

When I was in school, the AP Physics was not calculus-based.  So you could take  the AP test, and place out of regular Physics, but at Texas at least, you couldn't place out of Engineering Physics. No matter what your HS Physics background, all engineering majors had to take the two full semesters of UT Engineering Physics.  And it was MUCH more difficult than was the Physics class for Physics majors.  My roommate was taking that and it was laughably easy.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 28, 2025, 12:30:42 PM
Oh and I actually really liked Chemistry.  Again, I think it's because I've always enjoyed knowing how stuff works, and what stuff is made of.

Except for organic, biological things, that is.  No interest in that, bored me to tears.  Maybe I just had a bad Biology teacher.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 28, 2025, 12:33:27 PM
Having a good teacher is a thing.  I had maybe 2 in HS, probably 4-5 in college, the rest were, well, humdrum.

For many professors, teaching is a real chore, one they do begrudgingly at best.  It's not a thing that butters their bread at all.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 28, 2025, 12:37:06 PM
I had to take 15 credits of college physics, with labs. UW has since toned that down, given the redundancy with some of the EMA courses (statics/dynamics/materials). I also had to take EE circuits, which is no longer required.

My degree required 147 credits. Now it's 125.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 28, 2025, 12:38:56 PM
It's similar here now, sounds pretty much the same.

When I was in school, the AP Physics was not calculus-based.  So you could take  the AP test, and place out of regular Physics, but at Texas at least, you couldn't place out of Engineering Physics. No matter what your HS Physics background, all engineering majors had to take the two full semesters of UT Engineering Physics.  And it was MUCH more difficult than was the Physics class for Physics majors.  My roommate was taking that and it was laughably easy.
Yeah, my AP physics was calculus based. I got 5's on both parts of the test. Purdue wasn't going to take that for credit. 

They allowed me to take the actual statics/mechanics final during the summer prior to my first semester, and only with the 5 on the AP test AND passing the final did they allow me out of it. 

But as a EE, there was no way I was getting out of E&M. They had E&M for engineering majors, and then they had a separate harder E&M class specifically for EE majors. That class was still hard, but it really helped that I'd taken it in HS and learned it well enough for a 5 on the AP, so I was already familiar with it. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 28, 2025, 12:44:30 PM
Yeah I don't recall a separate course for EE majors for E&M.  But the one for all engineers was rigorous enough that there were no issues later in Emag or Circuit Theory.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 28, 2025, 06:06:59 PM
well, that's a weird discussion on history
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 28, 2025, 06:21:08 PM
well, that's a weird discussion on history
Anything that's happened in any of our lives is history now...

...and I'm sure mine is weird. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2025, 08:45:38 AM
I had calculus in HS, it was pretty basic stuff, I could diff and int some things.  I hit college and took calculus, again, Honors level, and we covered everything I learned in HS in Day one of the first quarter and Day two of the second.  The rest was ... obscure.  The prof wrote on the board with chalk with one hand and erased with the other.  Some folks in the class didin't bother taking notes, they just watched.  I vaguely recall something called Green's Theorem, but not what it was about of course.

The text book was zero help, no overlap with what the professor was saying.  I got through it somehow.  

My first semester in grad school we all took a course called "Bonding", same kind of thing, book was zero help, the professors wrote, they didn't erase at least, but I really had no clue what was going on.  None.  The first test came and I made something like a 57 only to learn it was second highest grade in the class.  Your first semester you don't really know anyone yet and everyone looked like they understood it all, but nobody did.  So, I somehow slid through with a "P".  (They had an odd, to me, HPLF grading system, if you got an F you were out, if you got two Ls you were out (Low Pass), if you got all Ps you were fine, and they just didn't give any H (High Pass) grades.  Fortunately, we had about a year and a half of classes and then none from there on.  That meant our tuition dropped to zero which was fine.

There was another guy from UGA who came in a year after me, I knew him, he was wicked smart, but somehow unfocused, and he ended up disappearing one day.  It was guys and gals like me who muddled through mostly.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 29, 2025, 09:00:08 AM
No calculus in HS for me. Did 3 of those and DifEQ in Juco.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 29, 2025, 09:31:13 AM
I got really pissed when I learned about LaPlace and Fourier transforms and realized that all of that tedious calculus and diffeq problem-solving in the time domain, could be easily transformed into frequency domain and solved via basic algebra.  They had really wasted my time, time I would have much preferred spending drinking beer and chasing girls.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2025, 10:15:18 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/CG8ZY1T.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Riffraft on January 29, 2025, 10:37:41 AM
There was no ap classes when I was in high school.  I finished all the advanced math that my school had by my junior year and ohio state had a concurrent enrollment program.  So I took all my calculus classes as a senior in high school at Ohio State.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on January 29, 2025, 10:41:51 AM
There was no ap classes when I was in high school.  I finished all the advanced math that my school had by my junior year and ohio state had a concurrent enrollment program.  So I took all my calculus classes as a senior in high school at Ohio State.
That would have been ideal.  Our school district has a deal with the local community college, for free tuition on co-enrollment classes, and calculus is included.  I want my daughter to do that next year, but it most likely won't work out with her schedule due to her extracurriculars.  We'll just have to settle for getting credit through the AP exam which I'm sure she'll do fine on, she's aced all of her others so far.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 29, 2025, 12:54:16 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ZqOKk8i.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 29, 2025, 06:22:26 PM
Seems reasonable. 
Bar era 
Where i hung out with co workers and friends 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 29, 2025, 09:40:01 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Liliuokalani Becomes Hawaii's Last Monarch (1891)
Liliuokalani ascended the throne in 1891 upon the death of her brother, King Kalakaua. Her refusal to recognize the constitutional changes inaugurated in 1887 precipitated a revolt, fostered largely by sugar planters—mostly American residents of Hawaii—that led to her dethronement early in 1893 and the establishment of a provisional government. Failing in an attempt to regain the throne in 1895, she formally renounced her royal claims.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 30, 2025, 06:33:30 AM
I got really pissed when I learned about LaPlace and Fourier transforms and realized that all of that tedious calculus and diffeq problem-solving in the time domain, could be easily transformed into frequency domain and solved via basic algebra.  They had really wasted my time, time I would have much preferred spending drinking beer and chasing girls.
Hell hath no fury.........
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2025, 06:58:54 AM
I got really pissed when I learned about LaPlace and Fourier transforms and realized that all of that tedious calculus and diffeq problem-solving in the time domain, could be easily transformed into frequency domain and solved via basic algebra.  They had really wasted my time, time I would have much preferred spending drinking beer and chasing girls.
We had a similar week in chemistry, spending time leaning about "forbidden transitions", followed by a few days of learning how they aren't quite really forbidden and some transitions do occur even though they are called "forbidden".  And a lot of what is taught early on is, well, simplified to the point of being wrong in many cases.

Pedagogy, or something.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 30, 2025, 02:59:57 PM
In September of 1922 plans were announced to build a $400K, Georgian-style 50-unit apartment house on Peachtree Street.
Designed by the firm of Hentz, Reid & Adler, it was developed by Robert Gregg, president of Atlantic Steel. The soundproof units were almost all in the corners, allowing for maximum light. The ground floor had a café that sat 80 people.
For two decades it housed upper class Atlantans, but in 1947, all leases were terminated and plans were announced for a medical professional building. That soon morphed into the Peachtree Manor Hotel. It was home to the Flamingo Room club, which caught fire in 1949 (reportedly set by the owner for an insurance payout).
By 1979, this section of Peachtree Street is known as “The Strip”, and the Peachtree Manor Motor Hotel was the center of prostitution, with 20 of 100 rooms rented by pimps or prostitutes. The club was called El Morocco. 
(https://i.imgur.com/nWdrRG2.png)


(https://i.imgur.com/NayIcwy.jpeg)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on January 30, 2025, 11:49:22 PM
Rent hasn't been raised here since 1521,doesn't look bad either

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/7m5qMfOt7SA?t=47&feature=share
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on January 31, 2025, 08:05:08 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/vkhczgv.png)

The first rocket launch from Cape Canaveral in 1950
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on January 31, 2025, 03:18:54 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

United States Launches Explorer I (1958)
Explorer I was the first American satellite. It was launched four months after the first artificial satellite, Sputnik I, was put into orbit by the Soviet Union, beginning the so-called space race. Although it carried a number of instruments, Explorer I was relatively small, weighing just 30 lbs (13 kg). It stopped transmission of data later in 1958, when its batteries died, but remained in orbit for more than 12 years.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: SFBadger96 on January 31, 2025, 06:57:49 PM
Harkening to the discussion about college admissions season on the other thread, I'm not a fan of the AP class; I much prefer the concurrent enrollment at a JC. I have many thoughts, but they can be distilled to this: give college credit for college courses. (My primary concern here is for the kids.)
One thing that I'm trying to drill into the boy's head before he leaves for college in the fall: yes, college is fun, but the classes are also substantially more demanding than high school.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 01, 2025, 08:56:42 AM
Yeah the concurrent courses are a good deal, especially because our school district has a deal with the community college and all courses are free.

Unfortunately it just doesn't work with my daughter's extracurricular schedule.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2025, 09:06:35 AM
I recall some of my HS peers took JUCO courses, I was advised not to (for better or worse).  My adviser and some teachers told me the courses were not very good there and wouldn't help me in college anyway.  I placed out of several courses with credit, one of them I had signed up for before I realized it and ended up making a C because the class was 7 girls and me, and the professor catered to the gals.  Everything I said in class was wrong.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 01, 2025, 09:29:55 AM
What was the most unusual event that's ever been recorded in the historical record? 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 01, 2025, 09:34:26 AM
not this................

THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First Volume of Oxford English Dictionary Is Published (1884)
Though the first volume, A–Ant, was published in 1884, the first complete edition of the Oxford English Dictionary was not published until 1928. Planned as a 10-year project, the 44-year undertaking resulted in a comprehensive, historical dictionary of English—the longest in the world today. It required more than 800 volunteers to compile material, including one who, it was later learned, turned out to be working from an asylum for the criminally insane.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 01, 2025, 09:53:00 AM


Back before the definitions of "gender" and "marriage" got altered by the left-leaning Caucasians. 



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 01, 2025, 10:05:56 AM
What was the most unusual event that's ever been recorded in the historical record?
would your definition of unusual be closely related to weird???
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 01, 2025, 10:38:26 AM
What was the most unusual event that's ever been recorded in the historical record?
Unnusual, as in singular, important, significant, well recorded?  There have been quite a few that contend I think.  The year of 536 I think it was might qualify.

A couple religious related events were influential.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 01, 2025, 11:39:51 AM
would your definition of unusual be closely related to weird???
Yes, the weirdest of the weird history. 

Like when they decided that the word "weird" should violate the "i before e except after c" rule just to be weird. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 01, 2025, 11:50:54 AM
not this................

THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

First Volume of Oxford English Dictionary Is Published (1884)
Though the first volume, A–Ant, was published in 1884, the first complete edition of the Oxford English Dictionary was not published until 1928. Planned as a 10-year project, the 44-year undertaking resulted in a comprehensive, historical dictionary of English—the longest in the world today. It required more than 800 volunteers to compile material, including one who, it was later learned, turned out to be working from an asylum for the criminally insane.

I've seen how the "English" compile and edit material.To this day in YouTube comment sections on WWII History forums their fauntleroys insist that they won the war and that Montgomery had nothing to do with failures in Italy/CAEN/Falaise Gap/Market Garden/even claiming the Ardennes when he in fact wanted to fall back. Even British Historians disabuse him of this fallacy concerning the whoppers he told of Arnhem and the Ardennes - where the British lost 200 Tommies KIA as the GIs took 8,500-10,000 KIA and Wehrmacht had over 12,000 Landsers KIA. So I suppose more than a few of those nutters flock to Oxford
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2025, 02:35:09 PM
This is the cockpit in which Charles Lindbergh sat while piloting the first aircraft to make a solo non-stop transatlantic flight, the Spirit of Saint Louis, in May of 1927. Note the periscope used instead of a forward window. The Spirit was designed and built in San Diego to compete for the $25,000 Orteig Prize, which was offered by New York hotel owner Raymond Orteig to the first aviator to cross the Atlantic non-stop, either from New York to Paris or vice versa.
Lindbergh, a U.S. Air Mail pilot, believed that a single-engine, single-seat, high-wing monoplane would provide him with the best chance of success. Under his close supervision, the Spirit was designed and constructed in just 60 days.
To enhance the center of gravity and minimize the risk of being crushed in case of a crash, Lindbergh had the large main and forward fuel tanks placed in the front section of the fuselage, ahead of the pilot, with the oil tank acting as a firewall. As a result of this design choice, there was no front windshield, and forward visibility was limited to the side windows. However, this arrangement didn't bother Lindbergh, as he was accustomed to flying in the rear cockpit of mail planes with mail bags in the front. When he needed to see forward, he would simply look out the sides.
To address the need for some forward vision, Lindbergh enlisted the help of a former submarine serviceman to design and install a periscope. Inside the cramped cockpit, measuring 94 cm wide, 81 cm long, and 130 cm high, Lindbergh couldn't even stretch his legs.

(https://i.imgur.com/aHuFRSf.png)


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 02, 2025, 02:39:16 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Boj8PzU.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 02, 2025, 02:44:45 PM
13 Things That Were Totally Normal in the ’50s but Unthinkable Now (https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/wellness/13-things-that-were-totally-normal-in-the-50s-but-unthinkable-now/ss-AA1xjy1Y?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=2a5d3c4c7b124c46b29c22e72eb4fd5f&ei=17#image=1)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 02, 2025, 04:00:54 PM
 Everything I said in class was wrong.
There you have it, your consistent if anything
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2025, 07:04:35 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/AtmGAoS.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 03, 2025, 07:55:40 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Bz5wSCe.png)

Europe 1050 AD.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 03, 2025, 09:14:11 AM
HIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Harold Macmillan Delivers "Wind of Change" Speech (1960)
British statesman Harold Macmillan held several government posts during World War II, including minister resident in North Africa. After serving in several other positions, he became prime minister in 1957. Macmillan accelerated Britain's decolonization, especially in Africa. In a memorable speech to the South African parliament in 1960, he said a "wind of change" was sweeping across Africa, which was experiencing a growth in national consciousness.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 03, 2025, 09:16:35 AM
https://youtu.be/n4RjJKxsamQ
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 04, 2025, 08:17:38 AM
Soviet spy Colonel Oleg Penkovsky provided valuable information about the status of the Soviet Union's nuclear weapons to both the CIA and British intelligence. The KGB arrested him on October 22, 1962, in Moscow and most likely executed him shortly after.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 04, 2025, 08:31:41 AM
What was the most unusual event that's ever been recorded in the historical record?
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The "Flying Tailor" Dies after Failed Parachute Jump from Eiffel Tower (1912)
Parachutes at the dawn of the aviation age were bulky and, inconveniently, had to be pre-opened. Among those trying to improve upon their design was French tailor Franz Reichelt. He had some success testing his designs on dummies, but he had no evidence that his parachute would work with a real person when he jumped from the Eiffel Tower before a crowd of spectators and reporters. The chute failed to open, and he plummeted to his death.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 04, 2025, 08:33:57 AM
This is the cockpit in which Charles Lindbergh sat while piloting the first aircraft to make a solo non-stop transatlantic flight, the Spirit of Saint Louis, in May of 1927. Note the periscope used instead of a forward window. The Spirit was designed and built in San Diego to compete for the $25,000 Orteig Prize, which was offered by New York hotel owner Raymond Orteig to the first aviator to cross the Atlantic non-stop, either from New York to Paris or vice versa.
Lindbergh, a U.S. Air Mail pilot, believed that a single-engine, single-seat, high-wing monoplane would provide him with the best chance of success. Under his close supervision, the Spirit was designed and constructed in just 60 days.
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Charles Lindbergh (1902)
In 1927, Lindbergh, an American aviator, made the first nonstop solo flight across the Atlantic in 33.5 hours, landing in Paris to a hero's welcome. He returned to the US a celebrity but moved to England in 1932 to escape the media frenzy surrounding the kidnapping and murder of his son. Returning to the US in 1940, he faced criticism for opposing US entry into WWII. Still, he flew combat missions for the US during the war.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 04, 2025, 08:42:20 AM
Here's Some Interesting Trivia....
(https://i.imgur.com/26TRHrw.png) (https://i.imgur.com/KSZyOW0.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/8J21LMo.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/QkvLwZj.png) (https://i.imgur.com/0a0pazW.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/xTqTX0n.png) (https://i.imgur.com/yDDg2M1.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/ndIbsds.png)
I dunno someone in Russia could be spinning a yarn
(https://i.imgur.com/tzLmpuu.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 04, 2025, 09:01:35 AM
Here's Some Interesting Trivia....
(https://i.imgur.com/26TRHrw.png) 
good to know the morning train was running!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 07, 2025, 09:26:43 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Émile Zola Is Put on Trial for Publishing "J'Accuse" (1898)
A Jewish officer in the French army, Alfred Dreyfus was falsely convicted of treason in 1894. When officers discovered that the evidence against Dreyfus was false—and that he was most likely a victim of anti-Semitism—they covered it up. Writer Émile Zola exposed the scandal by publishing in a newspaper an open letter titled "J'accuse." Zola was tried and convicted of criminal libel but fled the country, which was divided by the scandal.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 08, 2025, 09:13:19 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
NASDAQ Stock Market Begins Trading (1971)
When the NASDAQ stock exchange began trading in 1971, it was the world's first electronic stock market. Founded in New York by the National Association of Securities Dealers, NASDAQ initially existed as computer bulletin board system that did not yet connect buyers and sellers. Today, it lists more companies and has more trading volume than any other US electronic stock exchange. In 2007, NASDAQ acquired the oldest stock exchange in America for $652 million.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 10, 2025, 09:35:18 AM
The Vrba-Wetzler Report

Two weeks after their 1944 escape from Auschwitz, Rudolf Vrba and Alfréd Wetzler met with Jewish officials in Slovakia and gave them a detailed report on the Nazi concentration camp as well as sketches of its layout, gas chambers, and crematoria. Although the report's release to the public was controversially delayed, it was the first detailed report on Auschwitz that the Allies found credible and is credited with having saved many lives.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 10, 2025, 12:57:27 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/JAqVYB1.png)

I'm a bit suspicious of such FB memes, but maybe.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 10, 2025, 01:08:21 PM
just sip it outta the bottle
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 10, 2025, 01:15:14 PM


I'm a bit suspicious of such FB memes, but maybe.
I am as well. 

But...


On the other hand, whiskey is very potent, which means the effect gained vs the weight of product is important. It's strong enough not to spoil. It doesn't need refrigeration. 

So while I obviously don't trust FB memes as gospel, I can at least see some of this as plausible. 

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MikeDeTiger on February 10, 2025, 01:16:39 PM
Here's Some Interesting Trivia....

(https://i.imgur.com/xTqTX0n.png)

And yet only two of them could afford a razor.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 10, 2025, 04:27:23 PM
ZZ Top played their first ever show in Beaumont, TX, on February 10th, 1970. Happy 55th year first show date anniversary! #ZZTop

(https://i.imgur.com/o5RW4ou.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 10, 2025, 04:53:03 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/iuSXETo.png)

I'd guess Bob Gibson did this a time or two also.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 10, 2025, 04:59:49 PM
Arrested guy helps choking cop,going from sinner to saint
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/8ArHkS7Cwao?feature=share
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 10, 2025, 05:02:44 PM
ZZ Top played their first ever show in Beaumont, TX, on February 10th, 1970. Happy 55th year first show date anniversary! #ZZTop
A haw, haw, haw, haw, a haw A haw, haw, haw
Well, I hear it's fine
If you got the time
And the ten to get yourself in
A hmm, hmm
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Temp430 on February 11, 2025, 07:46:55 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/iuSXETo.png)

I'd guess Bob Gibson did this a time or two also.
I was never a Braves fan but watched them a lot in the mid-90s because they were always on TBS and I'm a fan of great pitching.  Maddux was amazing.  I remember one complete game where he only threw 60 some pitches.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2025, 08:21:23 AM
He threw 78 pitches.

Every pitch from Greg Maddux's 78-pitch complete game (July 22, 1997) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh-AxpN3c6w)

You can watch it quickly here as they show only pitches.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: GopherRock on February 11, 2025, 08:54:12 AM
ZZ Top played their first ever show in Beaumont, TX, on February 10th, 1970. Happy 55th year first show date anniversary! #ZZTop

(https://i.imgur.com/o5RW4ou.png)
https://youtu.be/HzbFDNNsIzE?si=-v4RluzRryNFB1Hy
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MikeDeTiger on February 11, 2025, 09:23:59 AM
I was never a Braves fan but watched them a lot in the mid-90s because they were always on TBS and I'm a fan of great pitching.  Maddux was amazing.  I remember one complete game where he only threw 60 some pitches.

I lived in GA for a couple years during that time.  Maddux and Glavine were the two pitchers that everybody around there never shut up about.  They made the World Series both years I was there....I think they lost to Toronto both times, which I considered downright un-American.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 11, 2025, 09:24:50 AM
Alan Magee (13 January 1919 – 20 December 2003) was an American airman during World War II who survived a 22,000-foot fall from his damaged B-17 Flying Fortress. He was featured in Smithsonian Magazine as one of the 10 most amazing survival stories of World War II.

Alan Magee was born in Plainfield, New Jersey as the youngest of six children. Immediately after the Pearl Harbor attack Magee joined the United States Army Air Forces and was assigned as a ball turret gunner on a B-17 bomber nicknamed "snap! crackle! pop!".

On 3 January 1943, Magee's Flying Fortress, B-17F-27-BO, 41-24620, "snap! crackle! pop!", of the 360th Bomb Squadron, 303rd Bomb Group, was on a daylight bombing run over Saint-Nazaire, France when German fighters shot off a section of the right wing, causing the aircraft to enter a deadly spin. This was Magee's seventh mission.

Magee was wounded in the attack but managed to escape from the ball turret. His parachute had been damaged and rendered useless by the attack, so having no choice, he leapt from the plane without a parachute, rapidly losing consciousness due to the altitude.

By some accounts, Magee fell over four miles before crashing through the glass roof of the St. Nazaire railroad station. Somehow the glass roof mitigated Magee's impact and rescuers found him still alive on the floor of the station.

Magee was taken as a prisoner of war and given medical treatment by his captors. He had 28 shrapnel wounds in addition to the damage from the fall. He had several broken bones, severe damage to his nose and eye, and lung and kidney damage, and his right arm was nearly severed.

Magee was liberated in May 1945 and received the Air Medal for meritorious conduct and the Purple Heart. After the war Magee earned his pilot's license and enjoyed flying. He worked in the airline industry in a variety of roles. He retired in 1979 and moved to northern New Mexico.

On 3 January 1993, the people of St. Nazaire honored Magee and the crew of his bomber by erecting a 6-foot-tall memorial to them.

Alan Magee died in San Angelo, Texas on 20 December 2003 from stroke and kidney failure at the age of 84.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2025, 09:57:26 AM
Maddux had his personal catcher, Eddie Perez, who has been my coach at fantasy camp several times.  He has some funny stories.  He isn't there any more, he's coaching winter ball I was told.  Steve Avery and Pete Smith have been to every camp since it restarted around 2012.  They are pretty cool dudes.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 11, 2025, 11:53:09 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/44pV8Z2.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 12, 2025, 09:36:18 AM
The Murders at Wright's Taliesin

Famed American architect Frank Lloyd Wright led a turbulent life rife with personal tragedy as well as several failed marriages. In 1909, Wright left his first wife and eloped to Europe with Mamah Cheney, who was also married at the time. When the pair returned to the US, Wright began building a new home, called Taliesin. In August 1914, while Wright was away, one of his workers set fire to Taliesin and murdered 7 people with an axe, including Cheney and her 2 children.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2025, 09:44:32 AM
I've been fortunate to see many of Wright's designs over the years. Never knew that story.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 12, 2025, 09:49:24 AM
same
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 12, 2025, 09:50:42 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Santiago, Chile, Founded (1541)
Santiago is the capital and the largest city of Chile. Just months after it was founded on the banks of the Mapocho River by Spanish conquistadors, the settlement was nearly wiped out by the indigenous Mapuche peoples. Today, it is one of the largest cities in South America, having survived the 1647 earthquake that leveled the city, frequent flooding from the Mapocho, and a number of other calamities.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on February 12, 2025, 09:52:10 AM
Yes I seek out FLW-designed buildings during my travels when time and itinerary allow, and I know a decent amount about his architecture, but had never heard this.  Weird history indeed.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 13, 2025, 08:49:22 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

William and Mary Proclaimed Co-Rulers of England (1689)
King William III and Queen Mary II were joint monarchs of England. Married in 1677, they were called to the throne by Parliament after King James II—Mary's father—fled the country during the Glorious Revolution of 1688. To end the revolution, William and Mary signed the English Bill of Rights, which barred any future Catholic succession to the throne and began a new cooperation between Parliament and monarchs, leading to greater democracy.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 13, 2025, 09:00:49 AM
Too many Marys and not enough Williams.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 13, 2025, 09:25:24 AM
reminds me of a Steely Dan tune
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 13, 2025, 05:51:59 PM
US Army Air Forces 2LT Joseph Sarnoski: Posthomously awarded Medal of Honor in WWII
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/n0P3XK2adAM?feature=share
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 14, 2025, 09:35:40 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Israeli Knesset Convenes for the First Time (1949)
In 1948, following a failed attempt by the UN to divide Palestine, which had been under British mandate, the nation of Israel proclaimed its independence. The first legislative assembly, or Knesset, convened in February 1949 and succeeded the Assembly of Representatives that had functioned as the Jewish community's parliament during the Mandate era. The prime minister and the president are responsible to the Knesset, whose members are elected by popular vote.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 15, 2025, 09:44:09 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/ZXb5zow.jpeg)

In 1846, Belgian inventor Adolphe Sax patented his masterpiece - the saxophone. But his path to musical innovation was paved with extraordinary challenges. As a child, he drank acid thinking it was milk, fell three stories, and survived carbon monoxide poisoning. 🎷
Despite facing three bankruptcies and endless patent battles, Sax persevered. Beyond the saxophone, he created an entire family of brass instruments including the saxhorn and saxtuba that revolutionized military bands across Europe. He even dreamed up ambitious inventions like the "Saxocannon" - a massive musical war machine that was never built.
His resilience eventually earned him a prestigious teaching position at the Paris Conservatory. Through all his trials, Sax's determination to innovate never wavered, leaving an indelible mark on the world of music that continues to this day.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 15, 2025, 08:59:07 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Decimal Day (1971)
Financial calculations using the old currency of the UK were complicated, as one pound was made up of 240 pence or 20 shillings, a shilling was equal to 12 pence, and the half-crown was worth two shillings and sixpence. After considering decimalization for over a century, Parliament passed the Decimal Currency Act in 1969. The pound was to be divided into 100 "new pence," and a massive publicity campaign was launched in the weeks leading up to Decimal Day.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 16, 2025, 09:10:18 AM
FACT OF THE DAY:

The Barbie doll’s full name is Barbara Millicent Roberts, and she is from Willows, Wisconsin. Her birthday is March 9, 1959, when Mattell first displayed her at the New York Toy Fair.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 16, 2025, 09:13:14 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Burning of the USS Philadelphia (1804)
The USS Philadelphia was a 36-gun frigate that ran aground in October 1803 while blockading the coast of Tripoli. After some consideration, the Americans decided that the ship was too powerful a weapon to remain in enemy hands and sent a party of soldiers to recapture the ship and burn it. In carrying out "the most bold and daring act of the age," the assaulting party used what ruse to sail up to the ship without arousing the suspicion of its Tripolitan guards?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 17, 2025, 08:23:07 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First Issue of Newsweek Magazine Is Published (1933)
Originally News-Week, the magazine debuted 10 years after Time, for which Newsweek founder Thomas J.C. Martyn had been an editor. It evolved into a full spectrum of news material, from breaking news and analysis to reviews and commentary. In 1961, it was purchased by Philip Graham, publisher of The Washington Post. In 2010, it was sold for $1 to American businessman Sidney Harman. Today, Newsweek is the second largest newsweekly in the US.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 18, 2025, 08:09:21 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Race Car Driver Dale Earnhardt Dies in Daytona 500 Crash (2001)
Earnhardt was a seven-time champion and one of NASCAR's most successful drivers when he was killed at the 2001 Daytona 500 race. In the final lap, his car veered abruptly down the track and made contact with two others before hitting a concrete retaining wall head-on at about 160 mph (258 km/h). He was killed instantly. In the wake of the tragedy, NASCAR launched an intensive safety campaign and the Florida Legislature passed the Earnhardt Family Protection Act
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 18, 2025, 08:10:12 AM
South Africa's "Big Hole"

In 1866, a small, white pebble, which turned out to be a 21-carat diamond, was found on the banks of the Orange River in South Africa. When a second, larger diamond was found in 1871, a diamond rush brought miners to the area by the thousands. Eventually, five big holes were dug, and the largest, known as the "Big Hole," yielded three tons of diamonds before it was closed in 1914.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 19, 2025, 12:31:40 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Thomas Edison Patents the Phonograph (1878)
Though his formal schooling was limited to just three months of instruction before he was ten years old, Edison was one of the most prolific inventors of his time. His work in improving telegraph technology—particularly his discovery of a method for recording telegraph messages—led Edison to suspect he could do similar things with sound. Within months, the first working model of his phonograph was ready.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 19, 2025, 02:56:33 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/zeQ0ALG.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 20, 2025, 08:40:41 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Metropolitan Museum of Art Opens in New York City (1872)
"The Met" is the foremost repository of art in the US, with a collection of more than two million works of art. Established for the purpose of encouraging the study of fine art, the museum opened in 1872 with just one stone sarcophagus and 174 paintings. However, the collection quickly outgrew its gallery space and in 1880 was moved to its iconic present-day location on the eastern edge of Central Park.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 22, 2025, 10:03:53 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Adams-Onís Treaty: Spain Sells Florida to the US (1819)
In the early 1800s, tensions between the US and Spain were increasing over border disputes in North America. With Spanish power in the New World declining, it was widely believed that Spain would lose land to the US. The Adams-Onís Treaty settled the dispute by attempting to draw clearer borders, roughly granting Florida and Louisiana to the US while giving everything west of Louisiana to Spain. The US did not pay Spain directly for the new land.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 23, 2025, 09:52:50 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/QBVunIC.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 23, 2025, 11:43:13 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/YUIIBKM.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 23, 2025, 05:37:31 PM
Passed by Congress on July 2, 1909, and ratified February 3, 1913, the 16th amendment established Congress's right to impose a Federal income tax.

Far-reaching in its social as well as its economic impact, the income tax amendment became part of the Constitution by a curious series of events culminating in a bit of political maneuvering that went awry.
The financial requirements of the Civil War prompted the first American income tax in 1861. At first, Congress placed a flat 3-percent tax on all incomes over $800 and later modified this principle to include a graduated tax. Congress repealed the income tax in 1872, but the concept did not disappear.
After the Civil War, the growing industrial and financial markets of the eastern United States generally prospered. But the farmers of the south and west suffered from low prices for their farm products, while they were forced to pay high prices for manufactured goods. Throughout the 1860s, 1870s, and 1880s, farmers formed such political organizations as the Grange, the Greenback Party, the National Farmers’ Alliance, and the People’s (Populist) Party. All of these groups advocated many reforms (see the Interstate Commerce Act (https://www.archives.gov/milestone-documents/interstate-commerce-act)) considered radical for the times, including a graduated income tax.
In 1894, as part of a high tariff bill, Congress enacted a 2-percent tax on income over $4,000. The tax was almost immediately struck down by a five-to-four decision of the Supreme Court, even though the Court had upheld the constitutionality of the Civil War tax as recently as 1881. Although farm organizations denounced the Court’s decision as a prime example of the alliance of government and business against the farmer, a general return of prosperity around the turn of the century softened the demand for reform. Democratic Party Platforms under the leadership of three-time Presidential candidate William Jennings Bryan, however, consistently included an income tax plank, and the progressive wing of the Republican Party also espoused the concept.
In 1909, progressives in Congress again attached a provision for an income tax to a tariff bill. Conservatives, hoping to kill the idea for good, proposed a constitutional amendment enacting such a tax; they believed an amendment would never receive ratification by three-fourths of the states. Much to their surprise, the amendment was ratified by one state legislature after another, and on February 25, 1913, with the certification by Secretary of State Philander C. Knox, the 16th amendment took effect. Yet in 1913, due to generous exemptions and deductions, less than 1 percent of the population paid income taxes at the rate of only 1 percent of net income.
This document settled the constitutional question of how to tax income and, by so doing, effected dramatic changes in the American way of life.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 24, 2025, 09:17:59 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Nazi Party Founded in Germany (1920)
The term National Socialist—or Nazi, for short—was added to the name of the German Workers' Party the year after it was founded. On the day it was renamed, swiftly-rising new member Adolf Hitler outlined the party's official platform before 2,000 people, its largest audience yet. During the Great Depression, millions of jobless voters joined the party, and in 1932 it became the largest bloc in the Reichstag.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 24, 2025, 09:18:30 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

John Peter Wagner (1874)
Wagner was an American baseball player who led the National League in batting eight times. He entered the majors in 1897, and played for Pittsburgh most of his career. Though massively built, he was agile, leading his league in stolen bases five times and scoring almost 1,800 runs. He retired in 1917 but returned to coach the Pirates for almost two decades. He was elected to the Hall of Fame in 1936. Fans called him "The Flying Dutchman" for his speed, but he had another nickname.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 24, 2025, 09:23:06 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/avWXccY.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 24, 2025, 03:06:33 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/xdOLtnh.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 24, 2025, 03:13:12 PM
Year in which each state passed a million in population.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 24, 2025, 03:32:06 PM
oh sorry
that was clearly stated in facebook
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: SFBadger96 on February 24, 2025, 07:34:25 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/YUIIBKM.jpeg)
It isn't $2 anymore, but (on the company dime) I birdied #7 (pictured) once. Greatest moment in my golfing life, to date.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 25, 2025, 07:57:06 AM
FACT OF THE DAY:

Jean-Baptiste Lully (1632-1687) is regarded as the father of French opera, though he was born in Italy. He pioneered the conducting stick concept, but unfortunately, he hit his foot with a heavy conducting staff. His foot became gangrenous, ultimately killing him.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 25, 2025, 08:01:32 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Samuel Colt Issued Patent for His Revolving Gun (1836)
Colt did not invent the revolver, but his design was the first practical, working version of one, and he developed assembly-line techniques that drove down manufacturing costs. Even so, securing funding for his novel production system proved difficult, and his fledgling company struggled and eventually folded. He then turned to work on underwater mines and telegraph lines. In 1847, Colt reestablished his gun manufacturing business after what famous lawman placed an order for 1,000 revolvers?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 25, 2025, 08:11:28 AM
My buddy has a Texas Ranger revolver.

Walker.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 25, 2025, 08:28:41 AM
oh sorry
that was clearly stated in facebook
thought you never stooped to such cesspool sites
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 25, 2025, 08:42:23 AM
never is a big word
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 26, 2025, 08:47:30 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Grand Teton National Park Established (1929)
Before US President Calvin Coolidge signed a bill creating Grand Teton National Park, the National Park Service and homesteaders around Jackson Hole, Wyoming, fought for decades about the best way to preserve the landscape there. Much of the steep Teton Range lies within the boundaries of the park. Its peaks rise above deep valleys, called "holes" by the first white trappers and traders in the area. It has been suggested that early French trappers named the Teton Range
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on February 26, 2025, 09:15:35 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY:

John Peter Wagner (1874)
Wagner was an American baseball player who led the National League in batting eight times. He entered the majors in 1897, and played for Pittsburgh most of his career. Though massively built, he was agile, leading his league in stolen bases five times and scoring almost 1,800 runs. He retired in 1917 but returned to coach the Pirates for almost two decades. He was elected to the Hall of Fame in 1936. Fans called him "The Flying Dutchman" for his speed, but he had another nickname.
Well, what was the other nickname?  LOL.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 26, 2025, 09:17:48 AM
Honus.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on February 26, 2025, 09:31:19 AM
Honus.
Well, I do recognize the name, but I didn't know it was a nickname.  I always thought it was a strange name.  What is the origin?  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 26, 2025, 09:33:20 AM
Well, I do recognize the name, but I didn't know it was a nickname.  I always thought it was a strange name.  What is the origin? 
I just took an educated guess.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 27, 2025, 09:49:25 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Reichstag Fire (1933)
The 1933 fire at the German Parliament building known as the Reichstag was a pivotal event in the establishment of Nazi Germany. Allegedly set by a Dutch communist, the fire was used by Adolf Hitler to turn public opinion against his opponents, especially the communists. Immediately after the fire, he enacted a decree suspending constitutional protection of personal rights, effectively establishing the Nazi Party dictatorship.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 27, 2025, 10:08:43 AM
Wagner was one of nine children. As a child, he was called Hans by his mother, which later evolved into Honus.[color=var(--color-progressive,#36c)][6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honus_Wagner#cite_note-DeValeria,_Dennis,_Jeanne_pp.8-7)[/iurl][/font][/size][/color] "Hans" was also an alternate nickname during his major league career. Wagner dropped out of school at age 12 to help his father and brothers in the [color=var(--color-progressive,#36c)]coal mines[/color] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_mines). In their free time, he and his brothers played sandlot baseball and developed their skills to such an extent that three of his brothers went on to become professionals as well.[color=var(--color-progressive,#36c)][7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honus_Wagner#cite_note-8)[/iurl][/font][/size][/color]
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 28, 2025, 10:34:50 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

DuPont Scientist Wallace Carothers Invents Nylon (1935)
Though his struggles with mental illness made him initially reject a lucrative job with DuPont, chemist Wallace Carothers accepted the offer in the late 1920s and enjoyed much success there. Perhaps his greatest achievement was the invention of nylon, which rapidly gained widespread use in an array of products. First used to make toothbrush bristles, nylon was soon replacing silk in the parachutes and flak vests of American WWII combatants and in women's stockings.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on February 28, 2025, 10:48:58 AM
He invented one route to Nylon, but missed another which the Germans devised, and some say he committed suicide due to missing the second path.

Nylon has been called "artificial silk", it a synthetic polymer of course of the amide type.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 28, 2025, 10:52:31 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Linus Carl Pauling (1901)
An American chemist, Pauling was the first person to win two unshared Nobel Prizes: one for chemistry in 1954 and one for peace in 1962. He was one of the first to study molecular structure using quantum mechanics, and he made discoveries in biochemistry and medicine. In the 1950s, he became concerned about nuclear weapons testing and radioactive fallout and wrote an appeal—signed by thousands of scientists—to halt such tests.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on February 28, 2025, 11:02:55 AM
1983 Final TV episode of "M*A*S*H" airs on CBS, a two-hour special directed by series star Alan Alda titled "Goodbye, Farewell, and Amen"; a record 125 million viewers watch in the US

1983 U2 release their third studio album "War" featuring protest song "Sunday Bloody Sunday", their 1st No. 1 UK album

2023 FBI Director Christopher Wray confirms the bureau believes COVID-19 pandemic likely originated from a lab accident in Wuhan, China 

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on February 28, 2025, 11:59:32 AM
I remember all of those very well

guess that makes me a historian
or just old
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 01, 2025, 10:21:40 AM
“Generally, during tactical intercepts we’d be flying around at 350-400 knots. So the fuel flow at that air speed, at, say 25,000 feet, would be 4,000, 4,500 max pounds per hour. So that’s 9,000 pounds per hour in a jet that can hold 16,200 pounds without tanks and 20,000 pounds with tanks. Now, as soon as you go into afterburner, now you’re consuming gas at a rate of 4,000 or 5,000 pounds per MINUTE. You will run out of gas fast; you have to be very judicious about your use of afterburner.”
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 01, 2025, 11:54:29 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Yellowstone National Park Established (1872)
Before Ferdinand Hayden's extensive geological exploration of the Yellowstone area in 1871, many doubted the stories of prior European explorers describing a remarkable landscape dotted with geysers and boiling springs. Paintings and photographs from Hayden's expedition helped convince Congress to make Yellowstone the US's first national park, and it now draws millions of visitors each year.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 02, 2025, 09:33:00 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Battle of the Bismarck Sea Begins (1943)
This battle was an unparalleled victory for Allied air power in WWII. During the engagement, Allied planes attacked and nearly obliterated a Japanese convoy transporting thousands of troops to New Guinea. The Japanese loss of critical reinforcements and supplies changed the course of the Pacific War. The Allies were later criticized for strafing Japanese survivors, reportedly in retaliation for Japanese actions earlier in the battle.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 02, 2025, 09:33:58 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Samuel Houston (1793)
Houston was an American statesman whose political future was seemingly derailed after his wife left him in 1829. He resigned the governorship of Tennessee, began drinking heavily, and went to live with the Cherokee. Later, he joined the Texas Revolution and became commander of the revolutionary forces. He led them to victory and was elected president of the new Republic of Texas. After Texas joined the US, he served the state first as a senator and then as governor.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 02, 2025, 04:19:15 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/zss8ZgX.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 02, 2025, 05:33:02 PM
that's a good sized tiny village in these parts
silly europeans
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2025, 05:54:17 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/BBeMp09.png)

Gun crews-Interior view of 16" gun turret in the battleship New Jersey (BB-62) on 9 Apr 1953. Photo shows shell deck crew moving projectiles from stationary stowage on lower shell flat to inner rotating ring of the turret for transfer to shell hoist
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2025, 06:32:49 AM
Today, 2nd April 748 saw the birth of one of the most successful leaders in European history, CHARLEMAGNE. Son of Pepin the Short, and grandson of Charles Martel, he came from a line of pedigree warrior leaders who between them carved out modern day France. He initially co-ruled with his brother Carloman, as was the Franks custom of inheritance,  but after his brother's death he became sole ruler of the Franks.  

His full range of titles kept extending as he used his political and military skills to increase his Empire, which at its peak stretched across all of France, down to northern Spain, east into Saxony and Bavaria, and south into large parts of Italy. It was the largest European empire since the height of Roman rule. Starting as King Charles I of the Franks (768-814), King of the Lombards (774-814), and Holy Roman Emperor (800-814). The latter title being created and bestowed upon him (without any legal authority) by the Pope, some say as a thank you for previous military protection, others suggest in recognition of Charlemagne's crusader like passion to protect and expand Christianity throughout his Empire, although sometimes by horrific methods such as his famous massacre of 3,500 Saxons overs a 24 hour period after they refused to convert to the cross.
 
It would be his insistence in continuing the tradition of sharing rule amongst sons that would bring the Empire to its end. His numerous sons would fight amongst themselves and the Empire break up into France, Italy and German states and the title of Holy Roman Emperor disappear for several generations until Otto I of Saxony would once again prove worthy of the rank.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 03, 2025, 08:28:10 AM
[img width=274.381 height=357]https://i.imgur.com/BBeMp09.png[/img]
Gun crews-Interior view of 16" gun turret in the battleship New Jersey (BB-62) on 9 Apr 1953. Photo shows shell deck crew moving projectiles from stationary stowage on lower shell flat to inner rotating ring of the turret for transfer to shell hoist
A few things about USS New Jersey:

The ship is moored in New Jersey, on the Delaware River, across the river from Philly as a museum ship. It is fascinating to visit although if you've already visited one of New Jersey's sisters they are obviously all pretty similar. The other three Iowa Class ships are museums located in:

I visited the New Jersey on our trip to see Ohio State's first game at Rutgers. We actually ran into @Roaddawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=68) on the ship.

The curator of the ship runs an interesting YouTube channel, have a look.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 03, 2025, 09:10:58 AM
At one point in World War II, nearly 40% of the U.S. Navy’s ordnance was produced in Hastings.

In July 1942, construction of the Naval Ammunition Depot (NAD) in Hastings began at a cost of $45 million. The 2,000 building, 48,753-acre facility was commissioned just eight months later in February 1943. The first ammunition shipment was made on an auspicious date: July 4, 1943—Independence Day.
Being served by three major railroads enabled shipment to either coast in just two days. Add an abundant supply of underground water, cheap utilities and a stable workforce, and it’s easy to see why the NAD in Hastings was the U.S. Navy’s largest munitions plant from 1942-46.

https://www.visithastingsnebraska.com/assets/site/web/documents/Final%20NAD%20Brochure.pdf (https://www.visithastingsnebraska.com/assets/site/web/documents/Final NAD Brochure.pdf)

A tremendous explosion on September 15, 1944, killed nine and injured 53. Caused by human error during train loading, the blast was felt 100 miles away in Lincoln, shattered windows in Hastings, and collapsed a school room in Harvard. There were three other loss-of-life explosions during 1944 as well, claiming an additional 12 lives.

Following the end of World War II, the Navy began to deactivate the facility. But the outbreak of the Korean War reactivated the depot in 1950, though not to the extent of its role in WWII. Still, 200 buildings were added. The facility was used for ordnance manufacturing storage until June 1966, when the facility was officially decommissioned.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 03, 2025, 09:39:49 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

George Bizet's Carmen Premieres in Paris (1875)
Though it is today one of the most popular operas ever written, Carmen was initially met with such scathing reviews that the opera house had to give away tickets to get people to see it. Shortly after its disastrous premiere, its author, Bizet, died of a heart attack and the director of the struggling opera house resigned. Later that year, however, Carmen opened in Vienna to wide acclaim.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 03, 2025, 11:47:11 AM
At one point in World War II, nearly 40% of the U.S. Navy’s ordnance was produced in Hastings.

In July 1942, construction of the Naval Ammunition Depot (NAD) in Hastings began at a cost of $45 million. The 2,000 building, 48,753-acre facility was commissioned just eight months later in February 1943. The first ammunition shipment was made on an auspicious date: July 4, 1943—Independence Day.
Being served by three major railroads enabled shipment to either coast in just two days. Add an abundant supply of underground water, cheap utilities and a stable workforce, and it’s easy to see why the NAD in Hastings was the U.S. Navy’s largest munitions plant from 1942-46.

https://www.visithastingsnebraska.com/assets/site/web/documents/Final%20NAD%20Brochure.pdf (https://www.visithastingsnebraska.com/assets/site/web/documents/Final NAD Brochure.pdf)

A tremendous explosion on September 15, 1944, killed nine and injured 53. Caused by human error during train loading, the blast was felt 100 miles away in Lincoln, shattered windows in Hastings, and collapsed a school room in Harvard. There were three other loss-of-life explosions during 1944 as well, claiming an additional 12 lives.

Following the end of World War II, the Navy began to deactivate the facility. But the outbreak of the Korean War reactivated the depot in 1950, though not to the extent of its role in WWII. Still, 200 buildings were added. The facility was used for ordnance manufacturing storage until June 1966, when the facility was officially decommissioned.
My dad had a friend who lived in Hastings and when we visited for the game we saw some of those buildings.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 03, 2025, 11:55:56 AM
On February 26, 1832, Frédéric Chopin (1810-1849) gave his first public concert in Paris in the Salons of Camille Pleyel, rue Cadet in the 9th arrondissement. This recital marked a decisive turning point in the career of the Polish composer, who was seeking to establish himself in the French capital after his arrival in 1831.
Chopin was not yet 22 years old, this concert was his real entry onto the musical scene of the capital. The audience was prestigious: composers such as Franz Liszt and Felix Mendelssohn were there, as well as influential writers and critics. From the first notes, the audience was won over. Chopin impressed with his subtle playing, his fluid virtuosity and his incomparable touch. Unlike other pianists of his time, who relied on power and technical demonstration, Chopin charmed with an intimate and poetic approach to the piano.
This first concert was a real success and launched Chopin's career in Paris. He quickly became one of the most sought-after pianists and composers, frequenting the city's artistic and intellectual elite. However, he gave few public concerts thereafter, preferring private salons such as that of Ary Scheffer at 16 rue Chaptal.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 04, 2025, 02:18:19 PM
You can probably guess for which aircraft these are throttle controls:

(https://i.imgur.com/6EWsGpB.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 04, 2025, 02:19:31 PM
B-52
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 04, 2025, 02:54:24 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Charlie Chaplin Is Knighted (1975)
Though he spent most of his career in the US, British-born silent-film legend Charlie Chaplin never applied for citizenship. The US took advantage of this fact in 1952, while Chaplin was overseas, revoking his re-entry permit over his alleged Communist ties. His political leanings, as well as his many affairs with young women, nearly cost him a knighthood, but after decades of debate, he was finally knighted by Queen Elizabeth II.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 05, 2025, 10:13:48 AM
Homecoming parade downtown, 1946.

(https://i.imgur.com/CtOjat7.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 06, 2025, 07:11:33 AM
"The Epic of Gilgamesh" is one of the oldest known pieces of literature, originating from ancient Mesopotamia, specifically from the Sumerian civilization. This epic poem, dating back to around 2100 BCE, follows the adventures of Gilgamesh, the historical king of Uruk, and explores themes such as friendship, the quest for immortality, and the human condition.
The narrative begins with Gilgamesh, who is portrayed as a powerful but tyrannical ruler. The gods create Enkidu, a wild man, to equal Gilgamesh and curb his excesses. The two become close friends after a fierce battle, embarking on various heroic quests together, including the slaying of the monster Humbaba and the killing of the Bull of Heaven sent by the goddess Ishtar.
After Enkidu's death, which results from divine punishment due to their actions, Gilgamesh is devastated. His grief drives him to seek out Utnapishtim, the immortal flood survivor, in search of answers about life and the secret to eternal life. Through his journey, Gilgamesh learns profound lessons about mortality, the importance of friendship, and the legacy one leaves behind.
The epic concludes with Gilgamesh returning to Uruk, where he comes to accept his mortality and the value of being a good king, ultimately realizing that his achievements and contributions to his city will endure beyond his earthly existence.
"The Epic of Gilgamesh" is celebrated not only for its rich storytelling but also for its exploration of timeless themes that resonate with readers across cultures and eras, making it a foundational text in the study of literature and human experience.



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 06, 2025, 09:58:30 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Walter Cronkite Signs off CBS Evening News (1981)
During his career as a broadcast journalist, "Uncle Walter," as Cronkite was affectionately known, was identified in public opinion polls as the most trusted man in America. He was managing editor and anchorman of The CBS Evening News with Walter Cronkite for almost 20 years and covered the first televised US presidential election, the 1969 moon landing, and the assassination of US President John F. Kennedy. In 1981, he signed off for the last time
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 06, 2025, 11:27:52 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/8epZCD1.png)

Opened Cincinnati 1929, White Castle.  The Krystal emulated it down south.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 07, 2025, 09:15:21 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Alexander Graham Bell Awarded US Patent for Telephone (1876)
Originally an audiologist, professor, and teacher of the deaf, Bell became interested in the idea of transmitting sound waves by wire when he misread a thesis by a German physicist. He mistakenly believed that the thesis implied such a transmission was possible. It did not, but Bell's idea was sound. Later, he described his mistranslation as a "valuable blunder." Three days after receiving a patent for his device, he spoke the first sentence ever transmitted by telephone.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 07, 2025, 09:20:38 AM
It seems strange to me he'd wait until AFTER the patent was issued to run the experiment.  Surely he had tried it in private.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 07, 2025, 10:27:59 AM
On January 1, 1954, during the Cotton Bowl Classic, Rice University's halfback Dicky Maegle (who later changed the spelling of his surname from Moegle) executed a remarkable performance against the University of Alabama. Early in the second quarter, with Rice leading 7–6, Maegle embarked on a 95-yard touchdown run, starting from Rice's own five-yard line. As he sprinted down the sideline adjacent to the Alabama bench, Alabama's fullback and co-captain, Tommy Lewis, unexpectedly left the bench without his helmet and tackled Maegle at the Alabama 42-yard line.
Recognizing the unfairness of this act, referee Cliff Shaw awarded Maegle a 95-yard touchdown. This incident, often referred to as the "12th man tackle," became one of college football's most legendary plays. Maegle concluded the game with three touchdowns, including runs of 79 and 34 yards, amassing a then-record 265 rushing yards on 11 carries, averaging 24.1 yards per attempt—a record that still stands in Cotton Bowl history. Rice secured a 28–6 victory.
After the game, both players appeared on "The Ed Sullivan Show," where Lewis explained his spontaneous action by saying he was "just too full of Alabama."


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 07, 2025, 10:30:33 AM
there's a weird one for Brutus
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 08, 2025, 09:24:53 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
New York Stock Exchange Is Founded (1817)
The first agreement to form a stock exchange in New York was made in 1792 by 24 brokers standing under a buttonwood tree on Wall Street. The New York Stock Exchange was formally founded 25 years later. The exchange provided capital for the industrialization of the US in the 19th century and is today the world's largest securities market. The right to trade in the exchange can only be obtained by purchasing a seat from an existing member, and the number of seats is limited
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 09, 2025, 09:17:24 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Edward R. Murrow's See It Now Airs McCarthyism Episode (1954)
In the early 1950s, US Senator Joseph McCarthy persecuted scores of people he deemed subversive in a series of widely-publicized hearings that whipped the public into an anti-Communist frenzy. In 1954, journalist Edward R. Murrow produced an episode of his TV show See It Now that criticized the Red Scare and turned public opinion against McCarthy using the senator's own words. Murrow later invited McCarthy to respond.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 09, 2025, 07:33:37 PM
Strange,true and odd facts - Hitler,Stalin and Mussolini were all nominated for the Nobel Peace prize

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/oPVyIqY4lTo?feature=share
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 10, 2025, 09:39:56 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

French Foreign Legion Founded (1831)
The French Foreign Legion is a unit of the French Army largely composed of foreigners and commanded by French officers. It was created by King Louis Phillipe in 1831 to keep potential dissidents busy fighting for France rather than against it. Because enlistment historically required no official identification, many criminals joined under assumed names to hide their unsavory backgrounds.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 10, 2025, 10:11:52 AM


1762 French Huguenot Jean Calas, who was wrongly convicted of killing his son, dies after being tortured by authorities; the event inspires Voltaire to begin campaign for religious tolerance and legal reform

1783 USS Alliance, under Captain Barry, fights and wins the final naval battle of the American Revolutionary War off Cape Canaveral



1874 Purdue University (Indiana) admits its 1st student

1876 First telephone call: Alexander Graham Bell says, "Mr. Watson, come here, I want to see you" to his assistant Thomas Watson

1910 Republic of China officially abolishes slavery

1945 Deadliest air raid of World War II sets Tokyo on fire after nighttime B-29 bombings; more than 100,000 people die, mostly civilians

1945 George S. Patton's 3rd U.S. Army makes contact with General Courtney Hodge's 1st U.S. Army

1951 FBI director J. Edgar Hoover declines post of baseball commissioner

1963 MLB infielder Pete Rose debuts with Cincinnati at spring training in Tampa, Florida; hits in his first 2 at bats

1990 US performs nuclear test at Nevada Test Site (really??? WTF)

2014 German Chancellor Angela Merkel warns Russia's Vladimir Putin that making Crimea part of Russia is illegal and in violation of Ukraine's constitution - (Thanx,toots how'd that work out?)

2020 Russian lower house of Parliament passes legislation to allow Vladimir Putin to hold office of President for life

2020 Three months into the COVID-19 epidemic Chinese President Xi Jinping finally travels to Wuhan, epicenter of the outbreak as the rate of daily new infections declines in China falls to 19 new cases and 17 deaths (sure they did,of course)

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 10, 2025, 11:29:18 AM
2014 German Chancellor Angela Merkel warns Russia's Vladimir Putin that making Crimea part of Russia is illegal and in violation of Ukraine's constitution - (Thanx,toots how'd that work out?)

I'd blame President Obama and Vice President Biden for appeasing Putin and not standing up for Ukraine
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on March 10, 2025, 12:22:40 PM
In 927, Athelstan became the first king to rule over all of England — and it hadn't been an easy journey. Though he was the son of Edward the Elder, King of the Anglo-Saxons, he was born not to his wife but to his mistress, and was thus considered illegitimate and called a bastard. He'd inherited the kingdom of Mercia upon his father's death, then took over the kingdom of Wessex when his brother died, thus uniting the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms under his rule by 925. When his brother-in-law, the Viking king Sihtric of the Kingdom of York, died in 927, Athelstan took over that kingdom too, which made him the first king to rule all of England. But Athelstan wasn't satisfied with just that: https://inter.st/jvza (https://inter.st/jvza?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR1mv_t5cepUd9Cp7WIwEtE8xnN6w6fPkMefwabHVt3mS39EgOwmwJclKrY_aem_oUxpqgk7VDsgda29xO8YWA)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 10, 2025, 02:19:49 PM
What North America looked like about 77 million years ago, during the Late Cretaceous period...

(https://i.imgur.com/OsIyq6G.png)

I'm sure some folks are quite sure how accurate this is.
Some folks wonder aloud why the names have been changed

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 10, 2025, 02:28:11 PM
here's one for Brutus...........

The Martin Brothers Monument Is One Of The Strangest In Nebraska

(https://i.imgur.com/dkqr5RS.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 10, 2025, 02:33:21 PM
From the Battle of Little Big Horn“I had sung the war song, I had smelt power smoke, my heart was bad--I was like one who has no mind. I rushed in and took their flag; my pony fell dead as I took it. I cut the thong that bound me; I jumped up and brained the sword flag man with my war club, and ran back to our line with the flag. I was mad, I got a fresh pony and rushed back shooting, cutting and slashing. This pony was shot and I got another. This time I saw Little Hair (Tom Custer)--I remembered my vow, I was crazy; I feared nothing. I knew nothing would hurt me for I had my white weasel tail on. I didn't know how many I killed trying to get at him. He knew me. I laughed at him and yelled at him. I saw his mouth move but there was so much noise I couldn't hear his voice. He was afraid. When I got near enough I shot him with my revolver. My gun was gone. I didn't know where. I got back on my pony and rode off. I was satisfied and sick of fighting."Itoηagaju (Rain-in-the-Face) Lakota , 1835-1905

(https://i.imgur.com/SOQuizb.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on March 10, 2025, 03:41:13 PM
Make America Underwater Again!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 10, 2025, 03:52:08 PM
the gulf of America hadn't even been named yet
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 10, 2025, 08:24:46 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/r20gjse.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 11, 2025, 07:36:39 AM
537 Goths lay siege to Rome

1779 US Army Corps of Engineers established

1789 Benjamin Banneker and Pierre Charles L'Enfant begin to lay out Washington, D.C.

1862 Abraham Lincoln removes George McClellan as General-in-Chief of the US Army

1897 A meteorite enters the earth's atmosphere and explodes over New Martinsville, West Virginia. The debris causes damage but no human injuries are reported.

1935 Bank of Canada first opens on Wellington Street, Ottawa

1935 Hermann Goering officially creates the Luftwaffe (German Air Force)

1941 FDR signs Lend-Lease Bill, allowing US to provide material support to Great Britain's war effort in return for future use of land for US military bases in England

1954 US Army charges Senator Joseph McCarthy used undue pressure tactics

1964 Gene Roddenberry brings together a 16-page pitch for the original Star Trek series

1968 Episode of "The Monkees" TV show features musician Frank Zappa posing as Mike Nesmith and vice versa, debating qualities of each other's music

1968 Otis Redding is the first person in the US to posthumously receive gold record for his single "(Sittin' On) The Dock of the Bay"

1971 Jim Morrison leaves for Paris, never to return

1974 Mount Etna in Sicily erupted

1982 Detroit Pistons play the Chicago Bulls, with final score of Detroit 152 to Chicago 144 and Detroit having 20 blocked shots

1985 Mikhail Gorbachev replaces Konstantin Chernenko as Soviet leader

1986 NFL adopts instant replay rule

2018 China's National People's Congress approves removal of term limits for a leader, allowing Xi Jinping to be president for life

2020 NBA suspends 2019-20 season until further notice after Utah Jazz center Rudy Gobert tests positive for COVID-19

2024 Fertilizer spill in Red Oak, Iowa, kills an estimated 789,000 fish along a 60-mile stretch of river after valve was left open at NEW Cooperative

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 11, 2025, 09:23:37 AM
789, wonders how they come up with that estimate
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 11, 2025, 09:24:30 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Mikhail Gorbachev Becomes Leader of the Soviet Union (1985)
In 1985, after the death of the third Soviet leader in two years, Mikhail Gorbachev came to power, ushering in an era of political reform with his policies of glasnost and perestroika. He cultivated warmer relations with the US and others and even supported the democratically elected governments that replaced the communist regimes of eastern Europe. In 1991, he resigned the presidency of the USSR, which ceased to exist the same day.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 12, 2025, 07:51:48 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

First "Fireside Chat" by US President Franklin Delano Roosevelt (1933)
The "fireside chats" were a series of informal radio speeches delivered by president Roosevelt beginning in 1933, when the US was in the midst of the Great Depression and a third of Americans were unemployed. With his calm manner and simple way of explaining issues, Roosevelt discussed such issues as the banking crisis, the New Deal program, and the drought. During WWII, he reported on the progress of the war and discussed national defense.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 13, 2025, 09:39:52 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/zlyUGdH.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 13, 2025, 05:09:54 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

Kapp Putsch Briefly Ousts Weimar Republic Government (1920)
The fledgling Weimar Republic was just a year old when a renegade right-wing military unit made the first serious coup attempt. The government had tried to disband the unit to comply with the Versailles Treaty—which limited military power in Germany—so the brigade took Berlin. The legitimate regime fled, and Wolfgang Kapp, a radical civil servant, formed a new government. Within days, the coup collapsed and the former regime returned
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 13, 2025, 07:02:59 PM
Did you know that ranch dressing was invented by someone from Nebraska?

Today is National Ranch Day. What better time to hear the story of Steve Henson from Thayer, who not only invented ranch dressing, but was also the founder of Hidden Valley Ranch. Listen as his granddaughter Holly Mastelotto shares the story on the latest "Curious Nebraska." NebraskaPublicMedia.org/curious
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 13, 2025, 07:45:59 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/0UU7OiK.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 14, 2025, 07:39:40 AM
1743 First American town meeting is held in Boston's Faneuil Hall

1794 Eli Whitney patents the cotton gin, revolutionizing the cotton industry in the southern US states

1888 Second largest snowfall in NYC history (21') sheez we get about one of those a winter Buffalo more

1900 Dutch botanist Hugo de Vries rediscovers Gregor Mendel's laws of heredity and genetics

1913 John D. Rockefeller gives $100 million to Rockefeller Foundation

1918 1st concrete ship to cross the Atlantic (Faith) is launched in San Francisco.By 1921, it was used as a breakwater in Cuba.
With the war in full swing, steel became a scarce resource, forcing engineers and shipbuilders to explore new possibilities. While concrete ships did not become the norm, they did find niche applications in specific sectors, such as the construction of barges and floating docks.

1923 US President Warren G. Harding becomes 1st president to pay taxes

1940 "The Road to Singapore" directed by Victor Schertzinger starring Bob Hope, Bing Crosby, and Dorothy Lamour, first of seven such films, premieres

1950 FBI starts a public list of the Ten Most Wanted Fugitives

1954 Milwaukee Braves future home run king Hank Aaron homers in his debut exhibition game against the Boston Red Sox

1962 Red Wings' forward Gordie Howe becomes second player in NHL history to score 500 career goals in Detroit's 3-2 loss to NY Rangers. In1997 he would sign a AHL contract with Syracuse Crunch

1964 Dallas, Texas; Jack Ruby sentenced to death for Lee Harvey Oswald's murder

1972 NBA's Cincinnati Royals, plagued by poor home attendance, announce they are moving franchise to Kansas City

1973 Future US senator John McCain is released after spending over five years in a North Vietnamese prisoner of war camp

1976 Jockey Bill Shoemaker wins his 7,000th race. Hell I didn't even start handicapping then

2006 Mike Wallace retires from US news program "60 Minutes" after 37 years

2017 World's oldest golf club, Muirfield in Scotland, votes to admit women as members for the first time in 273 years (I knew they'd come around)

2019 — The Senate voted for the second time on Sept. 25th to overturn President Donald Trump's declaration of a national emergency at the southern border.

2024 A series of storms strike parts of Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana and Arkansas, with tornadoes leaving at least 40 injured and three people dead







Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 14, 2025, 08:08:24 AM
2017 World's oldest golf club, Muirfield in Scotland, votes to admit women as members for the first time in 273 years (I knew they'd come around)

G-entlemen
O-nly
L-adies
F-orbidden
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 15, 2025, 07:28:05 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Egypt's Fuad I Transitions from Sultan to King (1922)
Fuad I was the first king of modern Egypt. Educated in Europe, he returned to Egypt in 1880 and founded the University of Cairo in 1906. He succeeded his brother as sultan in 1917, but in 1922, when British control of Egypt ended, Fuad took the title of king. The following year, a new constitution was established. Fuad later abolished it and frequently threw the country into turmoil by dismissing parliament. Under great pressure, he restored the constitution in 1935.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 16, 2025, 10:04:31 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Caligula Becomes Emperor of Rome (37 CE)
When Caligula became the Roman emperor in 37 CE, replacing the hated Tiberius, the public welcomed his reign, and for a time it was uneventful. Seven months later, he fell severely ill, and when he recovered, he was a changed man. Suddenly, his reign was marked by financially ruinous extravagance, unmatched cruelty, and rampant executions, even of his former supporters. He was assassinated within a few years.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on March 17, 2025, 01:14:33 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/id9NOVS.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: SFBadger96 on March 17, 2025, 01:29:02 PM
My grandfather had a reel-to-reel like this. I think my brother might have it now. He's transferred many of the files into digital storage. Still pretty cool, though.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on March 17, 2025, 01:36:01 PM
My dad has a couple of these, I don't think he has any more working tapes, though. They have an unused back bedroom that's basically just a museum to old music/sound equipment.  That's where he had my old turntable and floor speakers.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 18, 2025, 09:06:50 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/zh3yEAW.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 18, 2025, 09:12:08 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Peace of Riga between Poland and Soviet Union (1921)
When Poland declared its independence in 1918 in the aftermath of WWI, its borders—like many at that time—were not formally determined. By 1920, war had broken out over conflicting expansionist attempts between Soviet Russia and Poland, which wanted its 1772 border restored. The Peace of Riga treaty split contested land between Poland and the Soviets, setting the border and effectively halting Russian expansion into Europe.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: huskerdinie on March 19, 2025, 05:06:51 PM
This is really neat.  I will say, it is easier for you in Atlanta since obviously most of the battles were fought in the South. 

The next two I really want to get to are Antietam and Perryville. 

Antietam:
The bloodiest day in American History.  This battle is much less well known than Gettysburg mostly because it was a less comprehensive Union victory but it had a major impact on history.  For one thing, just like Gettysburg about a year later, this battle was forced by the Union as a check on a Confederate invasion of the North.  Secondly, Lincoln had already written the Emancipation Proclamation but he and his Cabinet felt that releasing it would reek of desperation unless it could be released after a Union victory.  Antietam was somewhat inconclusive but that was good enough for Lincoln and the Proclamation was released September 22, 1862 - five days after the Battle. 

Perryville:
This battle has much less of a macro-strategic interest but it has a personal connection.  My 2-Great Grandfather Joshua fought there.  It was his first action.  The 97th OVI had mustered in on September 1, 1862 at Zanesville and was then sent to a camp outside Columbus for training.  About a month later Confederate Troops under Braxton Bragg invaded Kentucky hoping to trigger a secessionist takeover of that state.  Union commanders in the area were short on troops so Joshua's and his unit's training was cut short and they were put on a train bound for Cincinnati.  Then crossed the Ohio River to Covington on a steamboat then marched South.  - side note -

If you've ever driven South out of Cincy on I71/I75 you know how ENORMOUS that hill is.  Every time I do that it amazes me that these guys did it in wool uniforms while carrying weapons, ammunition, food, etc.  I think I'd have gotten about half way up that hill and said "Why don't we just let them secede". 

Anyway, October 8, 1862 at the Battle of Perryville is listed on Joshua's service record as the first of his "156 days under fire". 

From what I've heard the annual reenactment at Perryville is one of the most well attended in the whole country largely due to the fact that it is one of the few northern battlefields so it is closer to all of the northern reenactors.  Since Joshua was actually there and he was a common soldier I also think that I could get a run of his diary printed up and probably sell them pretty easily at the reenactment. 
Strangely enough, I was just working on my family history and I had just seen mention of my 3rd great-uncle (James Madison Argabright) who was from Ross County Ohio- he was a soldier in the 33rd Regiment of the Ohio Infantry who fought at Chickamauga, Perryville, Lookout Mountain, Kennesaw Mountain, Peachtree Creek, and Jonesboro and was a part of Sherman's campaign.  His brother John was my 2nd great-grandfather and as far as I can tell John did not fight in the Civil War and settled in Nebraska in 1859.  His second wife Sarepta was my great-grandfather's mother.  My great-grandfather was named after General Winfield Scott - he began the tradition of handing down the middle name of Scott, so my grandfather, father, oldest brother, nephew, and my oldest son all have the same middle name.  At least they didn't have the first name of John like multiple ancestors did - try finding which John is yours, lol. 

Anyhoo, I have always wanted to visit some of the battlefields but have never made it back east to do so; they are on my bucket list.  Sounds like it would be a very interesting trip to say the least.  From what you said, it is entirely possible that our ancestors fought at the same time at Perryville-it's a small world, ain't it?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 19, 2025, 09:31:25 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Willie Mosconi Sinks 526 Consecutive Billiard Balls (1954)
The son of a pool hall owner who tried to keep him from playing billiards, Mosconi learned the game by shooting with potatoes when his father hid the balls. A prodigy, he went on to win the world pool title 15 times before 1957. In 1954, he sank 526 consecutive balls in two hours and 10 minutes, and more than 35 witnesses signed an affidavit swearing to the feat. The record has never been broken.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 22, 2025, 08:18:44 AM


Supposedly this picture was taken blind. One of the survivors just stuck his camera out the window and pressed the button, in order to leave documentation of his own demise. 


(https://i.imgur.com/V7lghGL.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 22, 2025, 01:39:30 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Arab League Is Founded (1945)
The League of Arab States was formed in 1945 to give unified political expression to Arab nations and to foster the regional economy. It originally consisted of seven member states and has since grown to include 22. Member states collaborate on cultural, economic, and social programs and have agreed to coordinate military defense measures. They also use the league as a forum for mediating disputes.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 23, 2025, 09:34:00 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Benito Mussolini Founds the Fasci di Combattimento (1919)
In the troubled period following WWI, Mussolini organized his followers, mostly veterans, into a paramilitary organization that promoted aggressive nationalism and violently opposed communism and socialism. Amid strikes, unrest, and governmental failure, Mussolini advocated the use of force to restore order. In 1921, his Fasci di Combattimento became the Fascist Party, planting the seeds for the regime that would rule Italy for nearly 20 years.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 24, 2025, 10:05:21 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Elvis Presley Inducted into the US Army (1958)
Though World War II ended in 1945, military conscription in the US continued in peacetime, and in 1957, the 22-year-old "King of Rock and Roll" was drafted for a two-year stint in the army. Despite concerns about his career, Presley did not try to avoid service and was inducted into the army at Fort Chaffee, Arkansas, in a ceremony mobbed by photographers. Five months later, and just a month before he was shipped out to Germany,
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 26, 2025, 06:31:26 AM
1931 Leo Bentley bowls 3 consecutive perfect games in Lorain, Ohio

1937 Joe DiMaggio takes Ty Cobb's advice and replaces his 40 oz bat with a 36 oz one

1945 Allies led by US Marine Corps secure island of Iwo Jima from Imperial Japanese Army, after 18,000 Japanese & 6,000 Americans killed

1953 Dr. Jonas Salk announces that he has successfully tested a vaccine to prevent polio, clinical trials begin the following year

1971 "Benny Hill Show" tops TV ratings

1974 George Foreman TKOs Ken Norton in 2nd round for the WBA, WBC and The Ring heavyweight boxing titles in Caracas, Venezuela

1975 Ken Russell's film "Tommy", based on the rock opera by The Who, premieres in London; Roger Daltrey and Ann-Margret star, Tina Turner and Elton John are featured

1979 Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin and Egyptian President Anwar Sadat sign the Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty in Washington, D.C.

1996 The International Monetary Fund approves a $10.2 billion loan for Russia

1999 A jury in Michigan finds Dr. Jack Kevorkian guilty of second-degree murder for administering a lethal injection to a terminally ill man

1999 Tom Snyder's final appearance as host of "The Late Late Show" on CBS, after 777 episodes

2015 Richard III of England (1452-85) is reburied at Leicester Cathedral in England, after being discovered under a carpark in Leicester in 2012

2022 US President Joe Biden says of Russian President Vladimir Putin, “For God’s sake, this man cannot remain in power" in unscripted remarks in Poland 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 26, 2025, 07:53:58 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
The Henley Regatta Is Established in England (1839)
Until 1839, the little town of Henley-on-Thames was known primarily as a glass-producing port town. During a town hall meeting that year, Captain Edmund Gardiner proposed holding a regatta, since the growing popularity of rowing could benefit the town. Today, the rowing competition is a world-class competition that draws oarsmen from around the world for five days each summer, with thousands of spectators taking part in its traditions. It officially became a "royal" regatta in 1851
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 26, 2025, 07:07:45 PM
Seven aerial kills in one engagement

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/X92Z8bGljOs?feature=share
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 27, 2025, 10:00:47 AM
Just in case you Ne'er-do-well's are unaware today is International Whisky Day Here's mud in your eye

(https://i.imgur.com/IjvIQLV.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 27, 2025, 10:17:48 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Good Friday Earthquake near Anchorage, Alaska (1964)
With a magnitude of 9.2, the earthquake that struck east of Anchorage at rush hour on Good Friday 1964 was one of the strongest ever recorded. About 130 people died, most in the subsequent tsunami, and much of downtown Anchorage was destroyed. The quake's effects were felt around the world—boats were sunk as far away as the Gulf of Mexico. Within a day, 11 aftershocks measuring 6.0 or higher were reported. In the months after, residents endured thousands of smaller ones.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 27, 2025, 10:27:22 AM
Strangely enough, I was just working on my family history and I had just seen mention of my 3rd great-uncle (James Madison Argabright) who was from Ross County Ohio- he was a soldier in the 33rd Regiment of the Ohio Infantry who fought at Chickamauga, Perryville, Lookout Mountain, Kennesaw Mountain, Peachtree Creek, and Jonesboro and was a part of Sherman's campaign.  His brother John was my 2nd great-grandfather and as far as I can tell John did not fight in the Civil War and settled in Nebraska in 1859.  His second wife Sarepta was my great-grandfather's mother.  My great-grandfather was named after General Winfield Scott - he began the tradition of handing down the middle name of Scott, so my grandfather, father, oldest brother, nephew, and my oldest son all have the same middle name.  At least they didn't have the first name of John like multiple ancestors did - try finding which John is yours, lol. 

Anyhoo, I have always wanted to visit some of the battlefields but have never made it back east to do so; they are on my bucket list.  Sounds like it would be a very interesting trip to say the least.  From what you said, it is entirely possible that our ancestors fought at the same time at Perryville-it's a small world, ain't it?
I didn't see this until just now.  I looked up the service record of the 33rd OVI (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/33rd_Ohio_Infantry_Regiment) and it looks like they were with the 97th for most of the war.  

It is funny with names, you mentioned your ancestor using Scott as a middle name in honor of Winfield Scott.  I have another ancestor who lived in NW Pennsylvania in the early 1800's and named his son "Perry".  I'm nearly certain that he MUST have named him after Oliver Hazard Perry so he probably served in the US Great Lakes Navy under Commodore Perry during the War of 1812 but I can't find any record of it.  For now it just gives me an additional reason to celebrate at Put-in-Bay*.  

*Put-in-Bay:
For those not from this area and unaware, Put-in-Bay is on South Bass Island in Lake Erie.  It is the site of Perry's Victory Monument and it is basically a summer resort town where a LOT of drinking goes on.  Ie, we have been celebrating Perry's victory over the British there for the last 212 years since the US victory in the Battle of Lake Erie on September 10, 1813.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 27, 2025, 10:37:46 AM
*Put-in-Bay:
For those not from this area and unaware, Put-in-Bay is on South Bass Island in Lake Erie.  It is the site of Perry's Victory Monument and it is basically a summer resort town where a LOT of drinking goes on.  Ie, we have been celebrating Perry's victory over the British there for the last 212 years since the US victory in the Battle of Lake Erie on September 10, 1813. 
Great song by Pat Daily

Take along some home grown, take along a bottle of wine
Waitin' for Commodore Perry, oh I hope he's on time
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 27, 2025, 10:51:23 AM
Great song by Pat Daily

Take along some home grown, take along a bottle of wine
Waitin' for Commodore Perry, oh I hope he's on time
I enjoyed a LOT of Pat Daily concerts at the Beer Barrel in PiB as well as the Sandusky State Theater, the Flats, Medina, and one in Key West. Unfortunately he's, as one of his songs said: "Pickin for the Lord on the great stage in the sky".
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 27, 2025, 11:10:30 AM
Did he die? Don't recall hearing that, great songs and performer

Forget that last transmission found this:

He died “peacefully” overnight, his son Reese Dailey wrote Thursday in a Facebook post. The cause of death was not reported.

With his entertaining mix of romantic ballads, bawdy tunes, and party songs, Mr. Dailey has been a fixture at the party island of Put-in-Bay since 1978, packing the crowds at the mammoth Beer Barrel until moving to the more intimate Boathouse Bar in 2007. Since 1984 and until his retirement in 2018, Mr. Dailey was a regular in winter at Sloppy Joe's Bar in Key West.

Dayum
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 27, 2025, 11:13:49 AM
Did he die? Don't recall hearing that, great songs and performer
Sadly yes, last year:https://obits.cleveland.com/us/obituaries/cleveland/name/patrick-dailey-obituary?id=55568598
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 27, 2025, 11:23:05 AM
Did he die? Don't recall hearing that, great songs and performer

Forget that last transmission found this:

He died “peacefully” overnight, his son Reese Dailey wrote Thursday in a Facebook post. The cause of death was not reported.

With his entertaining mix of romantic ballads, bawdy tunes, and party songs, Mr. Dailey has been a fixture at the party island of Put-in-Bay since 1978, packing the crowds at the mammoth Beer Barrel until moving to the more intimate Boathouse Bar in 2007. Since 1984 and until his retirement in 2018, Mr. Dailey was a regular in winter at Sloppy Joe's Bar in Key West.

Dayum
One of Pat's greatest songs, IMHO, was "Singwriter's Lament" in which he sang about people in the Rockies, Texas, and Key West respectively wanting him to cover John Denver, Willie Nelson, and Jimmy Buffet. I would never have guessed that, of the four, Willie would be the last man standing but Willie is 91 (will turn 92 next month) and as far as I know he is still smoking 🚬 weed and playing "The Redheaded Stranger" while Denver, Dailey, and Buffet are all "Pickin for the Lord on the great stage in the sky".
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on March 27, 2025, 11:26:37 AM
Oh yeah Willie still smokes the hippie lettuce.

Snoop Dog has smoked with Willie and said he has a hard time keeping up with the old man. :)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 27, 2025, 11:29:09 AM
One of Pat's greatest songs, IMHO, was "Singwriter's Lament"
I had the "FRESHWATER" CD never got it back from an old friend I think he made a cassette. Gonna call him up

My Truck
https://youtu.be/QHKE4jzTyOw?list=PLoUgx8VRELfKWWigxc6jWGA-iBSf3N4Dc

"well i guess it's just the way that I say hello,
That makes a woman tell me good-bye
I'd rather have a truck than a woman,
Simply just a matter of pride,
Because when we go out'
There's never a doubt,
About who is taking who for a ride,
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 27, 2025, 01:36:21 PM
I had the "FRESHWATER" CD never got it back from an old friend I think he made a cassette. Gonna call him up

My Truck
https://youtu.be/QHKE4jzTyOw?list=PLoUgx8VRELfKWWigxc6jWGA-iBSf3N4Dc

"well i guess it's just the way that I say hello,
That makes a woman tell me good-bye
I'd rather have a truck than a woman,
Simply just a matter of pride,
Because when we go out'
There's never a doubt,
About who is taking who for a ride,
A great song.

Dailey had a huge collection of great songs for drinking at a Summer Resort. His shows at the Beer Barrel were just a master class in showmanship.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 27, 2025, 01:40:06 PM
A great song.

Dailey had a huge collection of great songs for drinking at a Summer Resort. His shows at the Beer Barrel were just a master class in showmanship.
One of my all time favorites starts out like this:

"I heard a crash of broken glass
and I looked up to see
some drunk flying out of the Frosty Bar
and I'll be damned, it was me.

I landed on top
of a Put-in-Bay Lady Cop
She looked at me and said
Pat, you don't have to get drunk to be an A$$hole"

https://youtu.be/xNUeibCxieM?si=_Idhs0ajWZ8dy33h
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MikeDeTiger on March 27, 2025, 01:46:42 PM
Y'all were talking about history of the ancestry variety, so I thought I'd mention this.

I have an uncommon last name, and though a few scattered branches have made their way to California and Ohio, you almost only see it exclusively in southwest Louisiana (well, and now in Texas, I guess, with my ramblin' ass).  We've always had a somewhat decent oral history of our family in the States, and in my adult life several of my cousins have compiled a lot more research to verify and fill in details.  We know who the first guy with my last name to the US was, that he came around 1830, and that he was English.  But we never knew much beyond that. 

For several years I've belonged to a Facebook group dedicated to the family history, run by a British historian lady who took on a personal project to detail the family name as much as she could.  She compiled her findings into two books she self-published limited copies of, with a third forthcoming, hopefully.  They are obviously interesting to me, but just in general, I've always found the idea of doing records research in a country as old as England fascinating, because there's so many more years of stuff to dig through. 

She got quite a lot of detail as far back as the 1200's (!!!), and it's just crazy-fascinating to find out the story of the patriarchal line. 

One interesting thing that turned up, though hardly verified.....there is some evidence to suggest that prior to more reliable records, in the time of King John (of Robin Hood lore, Prince John in the stories), brother of Richard the Lionheart, there was a sheriff in the Nottingham district in the employ of King John, and that sheriff is possibly the earliest known person with our last name.  

So Robin Hood is almost certainly fictional, but if he was real, my ancestor hunted him.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 27, 2025, 01:52:23 PM
Out Drinkin' (wrongly titled heere)
https://youtu.be/Sm89GO9nyrc?list=PLoUgx8VRELfKWWigxc6jWGA-iBSf3N4Dc
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 27, 2025, 02:01:31 PM
Y'all were talking about history of the ancestry variety, so I thought I'd mention this.

I have an uncommon last name, and though a few scattered branches have made their way to California and Ohio, you almost only see it exclusively in southwest Louisiana (well, and now in Texas, I guess, with my ramblin' ass).  We've always had a somewhat decent oral history of our family in the States, and in my adult life several of my cousins have compiled a lot more research to verify and fill in details.  We know who the first guy with my last name to the US was, that he came around 1830, and that he was English.  But we never knew much beyond that. 

For several years I've belonged to a Facebook group dedicated to the family history, run by a British historian lady who took on a personal project to detail the family name as much as she could.  She compiled her findings into two books she self-published limited copies of, with a third forthcoming, hopefully.  They are obviously interesting to me, but just in general, I've always found the idea of doing records research in a country as old as England fascinating, because there's so many more years of stuff to dig through. 

She got quite a lot of detail as far back as the 1200's (!!!), and it's just crazy-fascinating to find out the story of the patriarchal line. 

One interesting thing that turned up, though hardly verified.....there is some evidence to suggest that prior to more reliable records, in the time of King John (of Robin Hood lore, Prince John in the stories), brother of Richard the Lionheart, there was a sheriff in the Nottingham district in the employ of King John, and that sheriff is possibly the earliest known person with our last name. 

So Robin Hood is almost certainly fictional, but if he was real, my ancestor hunted him. 
That is cool!  

I've done a lot of genealogical research and it can be painstaking.  Most of my research is stateside because nearly all of my ancestors were in North America prior to the Revolutionary War.  There is only one known exception.  The exception I can trace only as far back as the 1850 census where she has an entry as a widow living with her children (one of whom is also my ancestor) in Dayton, Ohio.  On the Census Form she wrote her age then for "place of birth" she wrote "Germany".  

If you are a history buff like me, you will immediately spot the problem here.  Germany wasn't a unified Nation until the end of the Franco-Prussian War in the 1870's.  Thus, when she was born (about 1810) and even when she filled out that Census Form in 1850 there was no Nation of Germany.  

I researched that a bit further and found out that there was a lot of nationalist sentiment in the various City-States that made up what would become Germany even prior to the Franco-Prussian War so basically, when she listed her birthplace as "Germany" she was making a German Nationalist Political Statement.  The unfortunate problem for me is that "Germany" isn't even remotely helpful for further research.  That could mean basically anywhere that a decent percentage of Germanic people lived circa 1810ish which could be (now) Eastern France, Austria, Northern Italy, Western Poland, the Kaliningrad Oblast in Russia, one of the Baltic States, somewhere in the Balkans, parts of the Cech Republic, or even as far away as parts of the Ukraine or of course, somewhere in modern Germany.  It would have been a lot more helpful to me if she had put down what City she was born in.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 27, 2025, 02:10:08 PM
Out Drinkin' (wrongly titled heere)
https://youtu.be/Sm89GO9nyrc?list=PLoUgx8VRELfKWWigxc6jWGA-iBSf3N4Dc
Love this song, as soon as you posted I started singing (in my head):
"I hopped a fence and stole a boat out of the Edgewater Yacht Club then did 90 MPH out to the Bay.  
Oh you aught to go with me when I go out drinking, I always have myself a real good time."  

Funny Pat Dailey Story:
Pat Dailey had a song titled (IIRC) "Oysters".  The song was basically a series of puns based on celebrities' names with "what Oysters do" as the unifying theme so:
"They made Louies' Arm Strong, they made Dorris' Day and made Gladys' Knight".  It is funnier as Pat sings it (probably also helps to be drunk like the majority of Pats' audiences).  

About 25 years ago I had a job that involved a roughly 1 hour (each way) commute.  At the time I usually listed to the Bob and Tom Radio Show.  One morning they had a comedian on who did a song that was more-or-less identical to Dailey's Oyster song.  The guy did this with no attribution, no credit to Pat, nothing, just as if it was his own work.  I, of course, recognized it and called a friend of a friend who knew Pat.  I'm sure I wasn't the only one who let Pat know.  

I kid you not, the very next day I was on my way to work and had the Bob and Tom show on and their guest that morning was . . . Pat Dailey!  Bob and Tom were buttering him up like you wouldn't believe, just talking about how great he was and pushing his albums and shows at PiB, etc.  

Years later I ran into Pat and had a chance to have a brief conversation with him so I immediately asked if his lawyers had forced that issue.  Pat smiled and said he "couldn't comment" so I assume that settlement had some kind of nondisclosure agreement but I thought it was hilarious.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on March 27, 2025, 02:17:10 PM
Quote
nearly all of my ancestors were in North America prior to the Revolutionary War


So if we assume that was 250 years ago, subtract your age (50), that's 200 years.  Given that your ancestors double every generation, and average 25 years between ancestors (probably too much time but nice round number), I assume you have 8 sets of Great-Great-Great (to the 8th degree obviously) grandparents, which makes for 16 total ancestors.  So out of 16 ancestors, 15 of them were already here prior to 1776?  That's pretty impressive.  


I've traced back some of my family history.  It seems were mostly from England, pretty vanilla stuff.  Many of them came over in the 1850's and landed in Galveston.  A few served in the civil war.  Many settled and stayed in Texas.  A few are from TN area, Georgia, and other places in the SE.  I really don't know much about them to tell you the truth.  A lot of Williams and James in the family name.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: SFBadger96 on March 27, 2025, 02:40:27 PM
On both my mom's and dad's side of the family, we can trace our ancestors in the United States back about 400 years. My last name (and direct ancestors) have been here since the 1600s (from England), and same for my maternal grandmother's family (Scotland). My maternal grandfather's family (my mom's maiden name) came in the early 1800s, also from what would become Germany, through Ohio. My great grandfather moved the family to California in the 1920s. My dad's parents moved him from Columbus, Ohio (my paternal grandfather was from Minneapolis) to San Diego in the 1950s. 

On my wife's side, her father's family (her maiden name) also traces back to the early 1600s (the aughts) in Maine (also from England), but her paternal grandmother came from England as an immigrant in the early 20th century, and her mother's side immigrated from Slovakia and Poland through Ellis Island also at the beginning of the 20th century. In a lot of ways, I find that history more compelling than the lineage that goes way, way back in the U.S. But each are interesting in their own way. Most of both sides of our family are Yankees, but my maternal grandmother's family was Virginian until the 1800s. Her great grandfather (I think that's the right number of greats) was born in Virginia, but fought for the Union as a naval officer assigned to a ship in the Great Lakes. Some interesting stories there, including why on earth we had naval vessels on the Great Lakes during the war. After the war, the navy moved the family west to California (I think in the 1880s). From a California perspective, we are relative oldtimers--with mom's family here before 1900, and dad coming here in the 1950s. Of course, having an old Virginian family means a history that includes slavery, which feels icky, but is also part of the nation's history. We proudly highlight the Virginian serving for the Union, but we weren't the people making those decisions, we're just the descendants. 

And--of course--along the way there have been a whole lot of branches with different geneology. I find it all moderately interesting, but I've left it to other family members who are much more interested in it to dig deep. It's good to know where we are from. But we are all here now. :-)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 27, 2025, 02:43:20 PM
So if we assume that was 250 years ago, subtract your age (50), that's 200 years.  Given that your ancestors double every generation, and average 25 years between ancestors (probably too much time but nice round number), I assume you have 8 sets of Great-Great-Great (to the 8th degree obviously) grandparents, which makes for 16 total ancestors.  So out of 16 ancestors, 15 of them were already here prior to 1776?  That's pretty impressive. 

I've traced back some of my family history.  It seems were mostly from England, pretty vanilla stuff.  Many of them came over in the 1850's and landed in Galveston.  A few served in the civil war.  Many settled and stayed in Texas.  A few are from TN area, Georgia, and other places in the SE.  I really don't know much about them to tell you the truth.  A lot of Williams and James in the family name. 
Not exactly but yes in general.  

The one exception takes up two or four slots in the "250 years ago" list and there are a few that I simply haven't been able to trace that far back yet.  However, I assume that they were pre-Revolution arrivals because I can get back close to the Revolution and at that time they weren't remotely close to the coast as recent arrivals would tend to be.  

I had ancestors on the Mayflower.  This is a funny story:
Stephen Hopkins is my (a bunch of greats) Grandfather.  He was the ONLY Mayflower passenger with prior New World Experience as he had been at Jamestown and was a witness at Pocahontas' wedding to John Rolfe.  Hopkins returned to England in 1614 to care for his children due to the death of his wife while he was away in the New World.  

Hopkins wasn't a Puritan but when the Puritan Pilgrims were preparing to sail in 1620 they hired him to come along due to his prior experience in North America.  I claim that my ancestor ran the first bar in North America because (as a non-Puritan) he ran what was then called an "Ordinary" but would later be called an Inn, Alehouse, or tavern.  He was cited and fined by the Puritans on several occasions for his activities.  

Stephen's son Giles Hopkins was also a passenger on the Mayflower and Giles is my (one less great) Grandfather.  Giles was a boy of about 12 or 13 years old aboard the Mayflower and, unlike Stephen, was not a signatory to the Mayflower Compact due to his youth.  

I also have one ancestor who was born in Ireland after the Revolution but her parents were born in North America before the Revolution.  They were Quakers and it appears that the parents had travelled to Ireland on some kind of Missionary or fundraising trip, had a daughter while they were there, then returned to North America.  That branch is odd because they WERE here prior to the Revolution but then they returned to Europe (I have only a vague idea for how long) then they were back in North America by the time that daughter got married.  With this type of geological research all I generally have is the dates and locations of births, marriages, and deaths so in this case:

There is about an 18 year gap between 1&2 and I assume that they stayed in North America that whole time but I have no evidence.  

There is a relatively short gap between #2 and #3 so I can surmise that they travelled to Ireland sometime during that gap but that is as close as I can get.  

There is about an 18 year gap between #3 and #4 and I have no way of knowing when during that time she travelled to North America.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on March 27, 2025, 03:00:25 PM
Family history isn't much of thing with me. I'm adopted.

I know they were German, and not married, but that's all I know.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 27, 2025, 03:04:17 PM
On both my mom's and dad's side of the family, we can trace our ancestors in the United States back about 400 years. My last name (and direct ancestors) have been here since the 1600s (from England), and same for my maternal grandmother's family (Scotland). My maternal grandfather's family (my mom's maiden name) came in the early 1800s, also from what would become Germany, through Ohio. My great grandfather moved the family to California in the 1920s. My dad's parents moved him from Columbus, Ohio (my paternal grandfather was from Minneapolis) to San Diego in the 1950s.

On my wife's side, her father's family (her maiden name) also traces back to the early 1600s (the aughts) in Maine (also from England), but her paternal grandmother came from England as an immigrant in the early 20th century, and her mother's side immigrated from Slovakia and Poland through Ellis Island also at the beginning of the 20th century. In a lot of ways, I find that history more compelling than the lineage that goes way, way back in the U.S. But each are interesting in their own way. Most of both sides of our family are Yankees, but my maternal grandmother's family was Virginian until the 1800s. Her great grandfather (I think that's the right number of greats) was born in Virginia, but fought for the Union as a naval officer assigned to a ship in the Great Lakes. Some interesting stories there, including why on earth we had naval vessels on the Great Lakes during the war. After the war, the navy moved the family west to California (I think in the 1880s). From a California perspective, we are relative oldtimers--with mom's family here before 1900, and dad coming here in the 1950s. Of course, having an old Virginian family means a history that includes slavery, which feels icky, but is also part of the nation's history. We proudly highlight the Virginian serving for the Union, but we weren't the people making those decisions, we're just the descendants.

And--of course--along the way there have been a whole lot of branches with different geneology. I find it all moderately interesting, but I've left it to other family members who are much more interested in it to dig deep. It's good to know where we are from. But we are all here now. :-)
I don't have any Ellis Island history to compare to but I'd also find that equally interesting. 

My connection to the Civil War is MOSTLY on the Union side.  My mom's ancestors were mostly Quakers and they were all anti-slavery.  However, they were also pacifists.  My great-great Grandfather Joshua DeWees and his brother Caleb basically told the Quakers that slavery wasn't going to end by them talking about ending it in the meetinghouse, it was only going to end by force so they joined the Union Army.  Both were excommunicated.  <- that isn't actually true, "excommunicate" is a Catholic term and they were Quakers, known as the "Society of Friends" so I always say that (dad joke warning) they were "unfriended", LoL.  See what I did there. 

Joshua was in the 97th OVI (Ohio Volunteer Infantry) and survived the war.  His son Joseph was my great-grandfather.  Joseph's daughter Helen was my Grandmother (1909-2012) and her daughter Joyce (1944-) is my mother.  Caleb was not so lucky, he was in the 73rd OVI and is buried at Gettysburg near where he died on July 3, 1863.  He was a silent witness to a rather famous speech* made by President Lincoln at the dedication of the Cemetery where he is buried.  Within said speech, Lincoln said that History could "never forget what they (including Caleb) did here." 

I also had a bunch Pennsylvanian Civil War veteran ancestors on my dad's side but the other half of my dad's side was from Georgia so I had ancestors on both sides of multiple battles during the Civil War. 

*I've always found it hilarious that one of history's most famous and memorized speeches starts out with the line:  "History will little note nor long remember what we say here." 

Edit to add:
Attached is a picture of Joshua DeWees' Civil War service record. I learned from a historian that he most likely paid to have this done (in 1899) because he needed it to claim his Civil War pension. This copy hangs in my office today.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: SFBadger96 on March 27, 2025, 03:47:00 PM
I had one of my best Army buddies over for dinner about a year ago, along with his wife and a couple of their kids. We have a family tree from SFIrish's side of the family, tracing the family name back to the early days in Maine, hanging in our dining room. This friend--and his wife--are politically pretty different from us, but--as humans do--around the dinner table we found many of the things that connect us, and bonded over them; not least our shared experiences so many years ago--and what they led to after we split ways. Commenting on the family tree, his wife said something at once very simple and also profound: how each of those people on that piece of paper lived their own life with all the joys and troubles that came with it. As little as we know about most of them, we are all so similar.

As frustrating as people can be, most of us are basically the same. We love our families and our friends, we want more, we love and laugh about things that cost nothing, we suffer, we celebrate, and we want "things" to get better, but we endure what we have. That's true regardless of where we are from.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 27, 2025, 03:51:12 PM
My dad's parents moved him from Columbus, Ohio (my paternal grandfather was from Minneapolis) to San Diego in the 1950s.
You'll get a kick out of this:
My dad had an all-expenses paid three-year trip to Southern California from 1958-1961 courtesy of the United Stated Marine Corps.  When my family (Dad, Mom, Brother, and I) went to the 1997 Rose Bowl, dad took us to see the base he had been stationed at from 58-61 (Twentynine Palms).  In December, 1996 Twentynine Palms was an EXTREMELY busy base with not only USMC but also Army and Air Force Personnel training for desert warfare.  

Dad was amazed at how much the base had expanded.  When he was in the Service, the US Military was mostly preparing to fight WWIII in the Fulda Gap.  Consequently, they had little need for Desert Warfare preparation so although Twentynine Palms was geographically huge, it was VERY sparsely populated.  My dad's unit was stationed there only because they were an 8" Howitzer Artillery unit and Twentynine Palms was one of the few bases large enough to actually shoot their guns.  

As anyone with even a cursory knowledge of history knows, the Korean War ended in 1953 and Vietnam (although we had some people there MUCH earlier) didn't really heat up until 1965 so my dad always said that he "played cops and robbers in the desert for three years".  Basically, they shot at rocks.  Seriously, they would set up the gun and a forward observer would attempt to calculate the correct solution to hit a particular rock somewhere in the desert a number of miles away from the gun then they would make the requisite corrections until they hit said rock, then pick a new rock and start all over.  All of this was practice not just for the gunnery officers but for everyone.  Everyone was doing the functions that they would need to do in an actual war, just without the other side shooting back since the rocks were conveniently unarmed.  

My dad had a number of jobs including Military Truck Driver (because ammunition is EXTREMELY heavy so an artillery unit has a LOT of truck drivers) and he was an MP (Brig Chaser as they were called) for a while.  He once told me that his favorite job was that he was the driver for a Forward Observer.  As he explained this job I both understood why it was great in peacetime and why it would SUCK if the rocks could shoot back.  In this role he (17-19 years old) drove a VERY junior officer (usually a 22 yr old 2nd Lt) out to some spot from which they could see the target.  Then dad just basically hung out while the young officer called in coordinates and corrections until the rock was suitably destroyed.  In peacetime this meant that my dad and the young officer who were about the same age were basically just hanging out without the usual military discipline.  In peacetime it was a great job.  In wartime this job had a life-expectancy measured in hours because the observers had to have line-of-sight to the target and obviously if you can see them, they can see you.  Worse, they know EXACTLY what you are doing and, worse yet, if they take you out, they don't have to worry about the gun because it will be blind.  

Anyway, after his time in the USMC, my dad managed Rental Property and eventually bought his own Rental Property here in Ohio.  He once talked about the fact that if he had done this in SoCal instead of Ohio . . .  Well, lets just say that Property values in SoCal increased a LOT more between 1960 and 2000 than they did in Ohio.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MikeDeTiger on March 27, 2025, 03:55:01 PM
That is cool! 

If you are a history buff like me...

I'm pretty crap at European history, and I would've never spotted the problem you detailed.  

I want to clarify one thing I said earlier, the part where I said we don't know much beyond the couple of details I listed about the first one of our name here.  What I should have said is that while we know quite a bit about his life in Louisiana, we knew very little about his life before coming here, i.e., where in England was he from, why did he leave, what was his background and his family's background, etc.  His life in southwest Louisiana is actually well-documented for its time.  He kept a detailed diary, and that diary is today held by one of the historical societies in the area and is considered one of the main primary documents for the history of Lake Charles, LA.  Most interesting is that he became the first school teacher in the parish (county, for all you non-Louisianans), which is kinda cool.  His son married the daughter of another southwest Louisiana man (who would also be my ancestor, though not of the same name) who fought at the Alamo in 1836.  Which has always been bizarre to me, because I don't know the story there at all.....like, why did this guy pick up and go to San Antonio and battle for Texas independence?  We don't know.  But his name is on the wall at the Alamo, and I've always scratched my head in bewilderment as to what that Louisiana-boy was up to.  

Maybe that's why I've lived in Texas so much.....being drawn to TX is just in my blood :)

To SFBadger's point about stuff we're not proud of....   I mentioned we never knew much about the school-teacher's life prior to coming here, and there were always some hints that perhaps he fell out with his family and got cut off from them.  Perhaps he decided to go elsewhere and make a new life, who knows.  There were also more than hints that some other stuff to not be proud of lurked in his past.  After the research my cousins did on him, the details are a little filled-in but still sketchy, but also the lost family members in California we've found through the miracle of Facebook had more verbal history to offer.  It's still a lot of speculation on my part, so I hesitate to even put it out there, but filling in some gaps with my own best guesses, my theory is that he worked for his dad in something to do with the trans-Atlantic slave trade.  I believe his father and perhaps he himself transported and sold slaves, and I hope I'm not incorrectly impugning their activities.  Some kind of family falling out happened, and ties were cut and he settled in Louisiana.  The "California cousins," who are black, believe he either married or attempted to marry a black woman, and that solves the mystery I always had of why there are black and white families with this odd English name, are we actually related, and if so, how far back do you have to go to find where that happened?  Although a couple I talked to believe that it was darker case of an owner forcing himself on a slave.  Yet others in both CA and LA think there was no blood relation and that slaves who were later freed just took the name of their owners.  So getting back to "Theory A," that relationship ended, for whatever reason, after which he married a white Louisiana woman, and that's where we come from.  There are a couple of reasons there he and his dad might have fallen out, if indeed they fell out. 

If I'm right about any of that, then like SF said, it's icky.....but.....there's also not anything to do about it.  Whatever happened, happened, and as SF says, here we all are.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 27, 2025, 04:28:42 PM
we knew very little about his life before coming here, i.e., where in England was he from, why did he leave, what was his background and his family's background, etc.  
I think it is pretty unusual to have more than guesses at these things.  In most cases I only know that a certain ancestor was born in a certain town in England on a certain date and got married ~18 years later somewhere in Massachusetts or whatever.  So I can narrow down the time of the trip to somewhere in the ~18 years between when they were born in England and when they got married in "Plymouth Colony, British Colonial America" but I don't even know if they came by themselves as a young adult or if they were brought along by their parents unless I can find burial records for the parents which will tell me whether or not they came.  The "why did he leave" is even more obscure.  I think we all just tend to assume it was for "Opportunity" or "Adventure" but realistically there were a lot who came here because they were in some sort of trouble or had a falling out with family or whatever.  

Like Jimmy Buffet said in Banana Republics:  
"Some of them are running from lovers, leaving no forward address.
Some are running tons of ganja, some are running from the IRS."  

So yeah, it is pretty much all guesswork when you are trying to figure out WHY some remote ancestor whom nobody you know ever even met decided to pack up and leave England (or wherever) many centuries ago.  

My ancestor from "Germany" is a great example.  Here are the facts that I know (I had to go open my ancestry database):

That is it.  I don't have a date of death for her nor a place of burial.  

Now trying to guess to fill in the gaps:
Catherine almost certainly came to America as a child with her parents.  It would have been EXTREMELY rare for a young single woman to travel alone to America and her husband was from America so she *MUST* have met him after she got here.  Thus, she more than likely arrived within 15 years or less of her birth so sometime before 1822ish.  

It seems odd that she got married in 1829 in OH, had a child three years later in PA, but then was back in OH 18 years after that but my best guess is:
Her husband was born in PA so he must have moved his family back to PA after he got married but then he died back in OH so for whatever reason sometime between 1832 and 1848 they moved back to Ohio.  

What became of her after that 1850 census is a complete mystery.  She *PROBABLY* didn't live a whole lot longer because if she had I likely would have found reference to her in the 1860 (or later) census.  OTOH, in 1850 she was a widow approximately 43 years old so she may of remarried or lived another 60+ years as a widow and met my infant grandfather (born in 1900).  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MikeDeTiger on March 27, 2025, 04:42:40 PM
I think it is pretty unusual to have more than guesses at these things. 

I tend to agree.  Just that in my case, the guy left a very detailed diary, which is now public, and yet he seemed to intentionally obfuscate his previous life or his family in England.  The stuff about his dad now comes more substantially from the work of the lady in England I mentioned earlier.  That the father was a trans-Atlantic slave-trader, I think is likely.  The stuff about the son who settled here is more speculative, and I admit that his seeming refusal to talk about it in his diary causes me to assume some things that perhaps I shouldn't.  However, I don't discount oral family history, and the stories the CA people gave me lend some weight to at least something along the lines of what I've speculated.  

About your ancestor:  I have to say, that is some Sherlock-level deduction there.  No snark intended....seriously....I think that's all reasonably warranted conclusions, for as far as it gets you.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MikeDeTiger on March 27, 2025, 05:07:11 PM
For something on my mom's side to look into one day, my great-grandmother straight up the matriarchal line was a full-blooded, real-deal Cajun.  Did not speak English until she went to school, where she was beaten on the hands with a ruler if she spoke French, because that's a thing you could do in those days.  Her mother and father never learned English.  I knew her very well as she lived until I was in my mid-20's.  

That family name is Aucoin, which is pronounced Oh-kwa, where the "a" in "kwa" would be pronounced like the "a" in "can."  (if utee is paying attention, note the silent "n" at the end of the word, again.)  I mention that because she claimed her family was actually originally from Ireland some time back, that their name was O'Quinn, and that they settled amongst the Cajuns at some point in the past and their name eventually took on a Cajun pronunciation and spelling. 

We once found a restaurant named Aucoin's which the owner ran with his family, and he and my grandmother worked out that they were second or third cousins or somesuch, and she believed she remembered playing with his older siblings when he was a toddler and she visited.  Well, my grandmother made the mistake of floating her mother's notion to them on one of those restaurant trips that the family was actually Irish, and buddy let me tell you, did they bristle at that.  They disputed it hotly, said there was no way that was true, and they pointed to the Aucoin coat of arms hanging on one of the walls which traces back to France, they said.  Needless to say, we left that one alone from there on out, because I think they were legit about to kick us out.  If you've ever pissed off a Cajun, you know what I'm talking about. 

I've been curious ever since to know who's right in that story, and I wonder if I can find out the truth.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 27, 2025, 05:27:49 PM
So if we assume that was 250 years ago, subtract your age (50), that's 200 years.  Given that your ancestors double every generation, and average 25 years between ancestors (probably too much time but nice round number), I assume you have 8 sets of Great-Great-Great (to the 8th degree obviously) grandparents, which makes for 16 total ancestors.  So out of 16 ancestors, 15 of them were already here prior to 1776?  That's pretty impressive. 
FWIW:
My family's generations (at least the recent ones) have been MUCH longer than 25 years:

My first pre-Revolution born ancestors show up at the 4-great grandparent level where there are 32 of them but some of those were born post-Revolution in the USA.  Among those born pre-Revolution:
The rest are either unknown or born after the Revolution.  

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 27, 2025, 05:32:12 PM
For something on my mom's side to look into one day, my great-grandmother straight up the matriarchal line was a full-blooded, real-deal Cajun.  Did not speak English until she went to school, where she was beaten on the hands with a ruler if she spoke French, because that's a thing you could do in those days.  Her mother and father never learned English.  I knew her very well as she lived until I was in my mid-20's. 

That family name is Aucoin, which is pronounced Oh-kwa, where the "a" in "kwa" would be pronounced like the "a" in "can."  (if utee is paying attention, note the silent "n" at the end of the word, again.)  I mention that because she claimed her family was actually originally from Ireland some time back, that their name was O'Quinn, and that they settled amongst the Cajuns at some point in the past and their name eventually took on a Cajun pronunciation and spelling. 

We once found a restaurant named Aucoin's which the owner ran with his family, and he and my grandmother worked out that they were second or third cousins or somesuch, and she believed she remembered playing with his older siblings when he was a toddler and she visited.  Well, my grandmother made the mistake of floating her mother's notion to them on one of those restaurant trips that the family was actually Irish, and buddy let me tell you, did they bristle at that.  They disputed it hotly, said there was no way that was true, and they pointed to the Aucoin coat of arms hanging on one of the walls which traces back to France, they said.  Needless to say, we left that one alone from there on out, because I think they were legit about to kick us out.  If you've ever pissed off a Cajun, you know what I'm talking about. 

I've been curious ever since to know who's right in that story, and I wonder if I can find out the truth. 
Good luck with that.  

Maybe Louisiana had better records back then but I know from trying to research my Georgia Ancestors that births and deaths tended to be recorded in family bibles and unless you actually have the Family Bible you are out of luck because birth certificates, death certificates, anything resembling governmental record-keeping is rare indeed.  Even my Paternal Grandmother (dad's mom) born in 1910 had no original birth certificate.  She had to get one made up retroactively to get a passport sometime in the 1950's or 1960's.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MikeDeTiger on March 27, 2025, 05:40:07 PM
Medina,

As you've researched your family, how far back can you get prior to the Revolutionary War and states forming...that kind of thing?  I've never had reason to know about anything that far back, so I'm curious if you know when European settlers started keeping public records.  Like, what year did they start building courthouses and filing birth/marriage certificates?  Never really thought about it before now. 

EDIT:  Oops, lol, I see you kind of already answer that
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 27, 2025, 07:02:07 PM
through Ohio. My great grandfather moved the family to California in the 1920s. My dad's parents moved him from Columbus, Ohio (my paternal grandfather was from Minneapolis) to San Diego in the 1950s.
I knew you were a closet Buckeye,denials will get you nowhere
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: SFBadger96 on March 27, 2025, 07:30:59 PM
My family has some midwestern roots, for sure. Some in Ohio. More recently in Minnesota (my dad's father's family moved there in the late 19th century). One of my mom's family was a POW at Andersonville while serving in an Ohio Regiment. He's buried (along with several other family members) just north of Dayton. My brother-in-law and my niece/nephews live just outside of Dayton now.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 27, 2025, 10:05:42 PM
My family has some midwestern roots, for sure. Some in Ohio. More recently in Minnesota (my dad's father's family moved there in the late 19th century). One of my mom's family was a POW at Andersonville while serving in an Ohio Regiment. He's buried (along with several other family members) just north of Dayton. My brother-in-law and my niece/nephews live just outside of Dayton now.
Have you ever visited Andersonville?

It is a moving site.

A crazy story there:
There was a guy, I think from NY who was sentenced to death internally by the Union Prisoners for theft or something. Anyway, when he was hanged the gallows broke so he survived. He then argued, unsuccessfully, that the gallows breaking was a sign from God that he should be pardoned. That didn't help, they fixed the gallows and successfully hanged him.

A horrible fate befell a number of Union Army POW's. A lot of them died in the Sultana disaster. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 27, 2025, 10:24:12 PM
Medina,

As you've researched your family, how far back can you get prior to the Revolutionary War and states forming...that kind of thing?  I've never had reason to know about anything that far back, so I'm curious if you know when European settlers started keeping public records.  Like, what year did they start building courthouses and filing birth/marriage certificates?  Never really thought about it before now. 

EDIT:  Oops, lol, I see you kind of already answer that
It varies a LOT between and even within States/Colonies.

An example, a bunch of my dad's ancestors lived in Crawford County, Pennsylvania. Crawford is in extreme Western PA, right on the Ohio border and it is the County immediately South of Erie County (where Erie, PA is located, on Lake Erie).

They lived there prior to the Revolution. Records from Crawford County PA from the 1750's are spotty at best. However, some of my mom's ancestors lived in the Philadelphia area at the same time. Note that is the same Colony, Pennsylvania.

Basically, if your ancestors hacked a path through the woods and carved out a farmstead from the wilderness there probably wasn't a County Recorder standing around to record the birth of the children right after they arrived.

That said, it often surprises me how fast the local governments got up and running.

Medina County (immediately South of Cuyahoga/Cleveland) was pretty much wilderness/frontier in 1810 and had a more-or-less fully functional County Government by no later than 1830.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 27, 2025, 10:47:40 PM
I tend to agree.  Just that in my case, the guy left a very detailed diary, which is now public, 
I have a very similar situation.  The aforementioned Civil War Veteran, Joshua kept a diary which my family published in the early 1980's (https://www.amazon.com/Joshua-DeWees-His-Civil-diary/dp/B0006P51OY).  I've read it multiple times so I know a LOT about Joshua but I know next-to-nothing about all the rest of my ancestors at that level (2-great grandparents born circa 1830-1868).  

Joshua was born on December 11, 1842 in Morgan County, Ohio and died in 1918 at the age of 75.  I have a picture of my Grandmother Helen (1909-2012) sitting on her Grandfather Joshua's lap but Helen is a little girl in the picture and it was obviously taken about six decades before I came along.  That picture, however, is the most tangible connection I have to Joshua.  The little girl in the picture is someone who I knew so there is a personal connection.  

Another ancestor at the same level, a 2-great grandfather on my dad's side was born much later, in 1867 and lived his whole life in Western Pennsylvania.  He lived until November of 1943 in the midst of WWII.  My dad was born in 1940 so it is possible that he met his great-grandfather.  It wouldn't have been terribly difficult either for my dad's parents to take a train to Western PA or for that great-grandfather to take a train to Cleveland to meet his new great-grandson but I have NO IDEA whether or not that actually happened.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 27, 2025, 11:20:44 PM
That said, it often surprises me how fast the local governments got up and running.

Medina County (immediately South of Cuyahoga/Cleveland) was pretty much wilderness/frontier in 1810 and had a more-or-less fully functional County Government by no later than 1830.
This might be specific to Ohio and possibly a few other states such as Oklahoma.  

Some history:
One of the complaints of the Colonists that contributed to the Revolution was that the British were deterring Westward migration.  Hence, most of the Indian Tribes sided with the British during the Revolutionary War because they obviously also opposed westward expansion of white/European settlement.  

Side note here:
The British opposition wasn't based on the British appreciating Native American land rights, it was purely pragmatic.  The British had spent a ton of money fighting off the French and Indians in what we call the French and Indian War.  The North American Colonies weren't particularly profitable for Britain (they were making a LOT of cash from India and their sugar plantations in the Caribbean) so Westward expansion of the North American Colonies was something that would have been very costly for the British and provided very little in the way of benefit to Britain.  

Back to the History.  Due to the British resistance against Westward Expansion, the area that became Ohio was basically off-limits to white/European settlement until after the Revolution.  Then, at the end of the Revolution a number of East Coast States (former 13 Colonies) gave land in Ohio to their Revolutionary War Veterans in lieu of pensions.  The area where I live was originally part of the "Connecticut Western Reserve" and there are a number of Revolutionary War Veterans buried in our Town Cemetery.  They are nearly all first-wave settlers from Connecticut.  

Anyway, the delayed settlement meant that once Ohio was open for settlement, it grew VERY rapidly because demand for Western land had been effectively bottled up for many decades.  Ohio became a State in 1803 and by the 1810 census it had already surpassed Delaware, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, and Vermont in population.  A decade later Ohio was the fifth most populous state behind only NY, VA, PA, and NC.  Ohio's population surpassed NC in the 1830 census and by 1840 Ohio was the third most populous state trailing only NY and PA.  

My point is that Ohio was settled VERY rapidly.  Consequently, the first wave settlers saw an enormous change.  When they arrived around 1800-1810 Ohio was literally a wilderness totally disconnected from civilization back east.  Within about 30 years Ohio was the third most populous state in the Union and had fully functioning State and local Government.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 28, 2025, 10:33:21 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
The Palm Sunday Tornado Outbreak (1920)
In 1920, meteorologists did not have modern forecasting equipment, and there was no storm warning system in place in the US. Thus, when an outbreak of storms began near dawn on March 28, 1920, few were prepared for the devastation that followed. Some 400 people were killed and more than 1,200 injured that day by at least 38 recorded tornadoes in the deep South and the Midwest. Why is it likely that both the total number of tornadoes as well as the actual death toll were underreported?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 28, 2025, 11:39:18 AM
@MikeDeTiger (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1588) 
Another thing that I should point out about genealogy research is that a lot of "my" research hasn't been mine at all.  Sources like Ancestry are great for basically "crowdsourcing" your research.  

In my case, one of my mom's cousins became a Mormon and Mormons have a keen interest in genealogy for religious reasons.  Consequently, a lot of research on one half of my mom's side of the family was just available.  Once I found it, I was basically done with that entire quarter of my ancestry.  

The farthest back I went in creating my database is my 10-great grandparents (of which there are 4,096).  I only have information on a comparative handful:


I have a bunch more.  The most interesting is my 10-great grandfather Giles Hopkins who was born January 30, 1607 in Hursley, Hampshire, England.  In 1620 at 13 years old he sailed aboard the Mayflower along with his Father, step-mother (his mother had died), siblings and half-siblings.  A half-brother Oceanus was born at sea on the Mayflower but died sometime prior to 1627.  He also had other half-siblings born in Plymouth after the voyage.  Giles (and his father Stephen) are my Mayflower Passenger ancestors.  

Note on #5/6:
When they got married in 1630 he would have been 28/29 and she would have been 16/17.  This was most likely a second marriage for him.  It would have been highly unusual for a guy to be a bachelor to the ripe old age of nearly 30.  Second marriages were fairly common back then not due to divorce but due to the high mortality rates.  More than likely he had a first wife closer to his age who died.  


Note on #11:
When I read that he died in Salem I immediately thought of the Salem Witch Trials and wondered if he had been there for that but I looked it up and those happened after he died.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 28, 2025, 08:28:40 PM
There was a chili parlor in Chapel Hill back in the day, it was pretty good I thought, served it over rice which is where I got my preference.  I'm sure the most "chili parlors" by far are in Cincinnati.  When I first interviewed there I thought it was cool because I really like "chili".  So, my first night by myself I go to one and order chili and get all these bizarre questions about what kind, so I ended up with "just chili", and thought it was horrible.  I didn't go back for years until folks at work said I didn't get the right kind.

I do miss it on occasion now.

You can pass 3-4-5 chili places in Cincy in a few blocks.

My own "chili" is what utee calls "Mexican spaghetti".

Drop everything Cincydawg, and fly back to the States at once. Your two favorite things have finally been fused together into one collaborative menu item.


Skyline and Dewey’s Pizza have come together to create a pizza combining two of Cincinnati’s favorites.

The Skyline Dip Deluxe pizza is a celebration of Skyline’s 75th Anniversary.

Topped with a cream cheese base, Skyline Chili, mozzarella, and mild cheddar, this pizza is finished with small red beans, diced onions, and a post-bake garnish of sour cream, diced tomatoes, and chopped green onions. Pickled jalapeños can be added for those who like a little spice.

(https://gray-wxix-prod.gtv-cdn.com/resizer/v2/6SIWIHOCLRDJBCGKE66HKIAQUU.jpg?auth=9d13b897cac8200bc47c05287e30fff1c1df12d9a6c56a1ffa565606e0be842d&width=1600&height=900&smart=true)

The Skyline Dip Deluxe pizza is only available for a limited time from Apr. 9-16 at Dewey’s locations in Cincinnati, Northern Kentucky, Dayton, and Columbus while supplies last.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on March 29, 2025, 12:08:35 PM
I wonder if the whole Mayflower thing was something that was relatively unknown in and directly after its own time but became much more famous in later times. Kind of like what I’ve heard about the Alamo. Supposedly, the Alamo was a forgotten relic for 50 years after the battle. Only later did they sort of trump it up and make a big deal out of it. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 29, 2025, 12:10:44 PM
I wonder if the whole Mayflower thing was something that was relatively unknown in and directly after its own time but became much more famous in later times. Kind of like what I’ve heard about the Alamo. Supposedly, the Alamo was a forgotten relic for 50 years after the battle. Only later did they sort of trump it up and make a big deal out of it.
I guess somebody remembered. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 29, 2025, 01:39:11 PM


Topped with a cream cheese base, Skyline Chili, mozzarella, and mild cheddar, this pizza is finished with small red beans, diced onions, and a post-bake garnish of sour cream, diced tomatoes, and chopped green onions. Pickled jalapeños can be added for those who like a little spice.

(https://gray-wxix-prod.gtv-cdn.com/resizer/v2/6SIWIHOCLRDJBCGKE66HKIAQUU.jpg?auth=9d13b897cac8200bc47c05287e30fff1c1df12d9a6c56a1ffa565606e0be842d&width=1600&height=900&smart=true)

Hold on, hold on......chili AND beans?!?!  This is madness!!!
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on March 29, 2025, 01:40:09 PM
Also, in my mind, this thread title makes me picture Cincy giving an oral history of the past few centuries......from memory.....because he was there.

:88:
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on March 29, 2025, 01:57:58 PM
I guess somebody remembered.
Same thing with the Declaration of Independence. It was regarded as an afterthought in its own time. 

maybe some of you historians can set me straight. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 29, 2025, 04:43:18 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Knights of Columbus Established (1882)
The Knights of Columbus is the largest Catholic fraternal service organization in the world. Founded by Father Michael McGivney on the principles of charity, unity, fraternity, and patriotism, the organization's primary purpose was to provide financial aid to members and their families in the event of illness or death. The Knights of Columbus has since donated billions to charity and now has more than 1.8 million members.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 29, 2025, 05:48:24 PM
Same thing with the Declaration of Independence. It was regarded as an afterthought in its own time.

maybe some of you historians can set me straight.
The Battles of Lexington and Concord initiated armed conflict between Britain and the 13 colonies. The Declaration sealed the deal there was no turning back the bridges had been burnt. Balsy bastards

This was problematic

We, therefore, the representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the name, and by authority of the good people of these colonies, solemnly publish and declare, that these United Colonies are, and of right ought to be free and independent states; that they are absolved from all allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the state of Great Britain is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that, as free and independent states, they have full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent states may of right do. And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on March 30, 2025, 12:31:04 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/c7BZPXU.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on March 30, 2025, 09:38:23 AM
There were more than 13 British colonies, and the ones in the far north stayed loyal to the crown, eventually becoming Canada. Ontario was set up as a gathering place for loyalists living across the 13 colonies. 

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9d/Canada_provinces_evolution_2.gif)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 30, 2025, 10:13:27 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs Signed (1961)
In 1961, representatives from 73 nations met at United Nations headquarters to draft an international treaty to fight the production, trade, and use of illegal drugs. Their comprehensive convention replaced a prior patchwork of treaties and was entered into force in 1964. It was amended in 1972 and now has more than 180 signatories. Despite its sweeping breadth, the document contains a significant ambiguity that has been interpreted differently by various nations.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Hawkinole on March 31, 2025, 01:09:07 AM
Wisc. @ Minnesota 1904. This was the year my grandfather was born.

Look at the several people on utility poles viewing the game at Northrop Field in Minneapolis:
Football Game, Wisconsin versus Minnesota at Northrop Field - Northrop Field - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Field#/media/File:Football_Game,_Wisconsin_versus_Minnesota_at_Northrop_Field.jpg)
Some Gopher fans seem to so despise Wisconsin they would risk losing their own life to see if Minnesota would defeat Wisconsin at football.
The pole climbers were rewarded with a 28-0 win, provided they didn't fall to their death.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 31, 2025, 07:48:06 AM
On this Day in History
1831 Quebec and Montreal are incorporated

1880 1st town to claim to be completely illuminated by electric lighting (Wabash, Indiana)

1889 Eiffel Tower officially opens for dignitaries and an award ceremony in Paris, France; designed by Gustave Eiffel and built for the Exposition Universelle, at 300 meters high, it holds the record for the tallest man-made structure for 41 years

1931 Brilliant Notre Dame football coach Knute Rockne (43) is killed with 7 others when light plane crashes on trip from Kansas City to Los Angeles; record 105-12-5 @ .881 remains best ever

1932 Ford publicly unveils its V-8 engine

1939 "The Hound of Baskervilles" first of 14 films starring Basil Rathbone as Sherlock Holmes and Nigel Bruce as Dr. Watson is released

1945 US artillery lands on Keise Shima/begins firing on Okinawa

1948 US Congress passes Marshall Aid Act to rehabilitate war-torn Europe

1949 Newfoundland becomes Canada's 10th province

1949 RCA Victor of Camden, New Jersey, introduces the 45 RPM record player and the 7-inch single, a vinyl disc more durable than the 78 RPM shellac

1954 USSR offers to join NATO

1958 USSR suspends nuclear weapons tests, & urges US & Britain to do same

1967 Jimi Hendrix first burns his guitar (and his fingers) at Finsbury Park Astoria theatre in London; the guitar is sold at auction for nearly $500K, the building is currently a church

1969 NY Times reviews "Slaughterhouse-Five" by Kurt Vonnegut on its publication, saying "you'll either love it, or push it back in the science-fiction corner"

1970 Federal bankruptcy court allows Seattle Pilots to be sold to Milwaukee

1971 William Calley sentenced to life for Mi Lai Massacre

1972 Final day of the rum ration in the Royal Canadian Navy


1973 Muhammad Ali suffers a broken jaw in a shock split-points decision loss to Ken Norton over 12 rounds in San Diego; Ali wins rematch in another controversial split decision

1980 Almost concurrent heavyweight boxing championship fights: Larry Holmes TKOs Leroy Jones in 8 for WBC title in Las Vegas, NV whilst Mike Weaver KOs John Tate in 15 for WBA belt in Knoxville, TN (I watched the Tate/Weaver fight all Tate had to do is stay away from Weaver - who dropped him cold in the last round)

1983 "Monty Python's The Meaning of Life," is released in the US

1994 Chicago White Sox assigns former NBA superstar Michael Jordan to the Birmingham Barons of Class AA Southern League; returns to NBA after one season

1996 First time in MLB history, the regular season opens in March with Seattle Mariners beating Chicago White Sox, 3-2 in 12 innings at the Kingdome, Seattle

1998 Milwaukee becomes first team since the inception of the American League in 1901 to switch MLB leagues; Brewers lose first NL game, 2-1 to the Braves in Atlanta

2021 New York state legalizes recreational use of marijuana in legislation signed by Governor Andrew Cuomo (sales not legal for 18 months)



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 31, 2025, 08:59:51 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

UNIVAC Computer Delivered to the US Census Bureau (1951)
By 1870, the US population was so large that hand-counting the census was no longer feasible. Despite the invention of a counting machine, by the time the 1880 census was tabulated, it was almost 1890. Dealing with so much data remained a problem until the late 1940s, when the Census Bureau commissioned the first civilian computer. In 1951, it was used to count part of the 1950 census and was so successful that the bureau bought another.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 31, 2025, 09:07:54 AM
1931 Brilliant Notre Dame football coach Knute Rockne (43) is killed with 7 others when light plane crashes on trip from Kansas City to Los Angeles; record 105-12-5 @ .881 remains best ever
brilliant?

Bugeaters gave him 3 of those losses and a tie
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on March 31, 2025, 10:37:20 AM
I get that couldn't even beat the bugeaters WTH 
:)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on March 31, 2025, 03:56:22 PM
The discussion of the settlement of Ohio specifically and the Midwest generally got me thinking about the Erie Canal which has always fascinated me.  

Backstory:
When the Europeans first settled North America they obviously lived right along the coast and moved inland later.  Most of the inward migration was along rivers.  Specifically, a Geographic Feature that is unknown to most people was EXTREMELY important to the early North American settlers.  

That feature is called the "Fall Line" and is the most inland navigable point on the rivers flowing to the coast.  On nearly all the large rivers along the Atlantic Coast of the US, there is a fairly large City right at the Fall Line.  

Ocean-going sailing ships of the day could navigate inland along the rivers to the fall line.  Thus, transport of goods (mostly agricultural products) from the colonies (later states) was relatively cheap up to that point.  Then, within the area immediately surrounding that, goods could be transported by horse or ox cart to the Cities that sprung up along the Fall Line then loaded onto ships for transport into the worldwide economy.  The reverse was true for manufactured goods.  England has been short on land for centuries but was the first Nation to Industrialize so mostly this trade meant grain and other agricultural products from North America to England and manufactured goods from England to North America.  

The problem is that the fall line along the Atlantic seaboard is fairly close to the coast so only a fairly small portion of North America could connect with the global economy in this way.  Beyond that, shipping grain by horse or ox quickly becomes cost-prohibitive.  

Side Note:
All over New England there are forests where farms used to be.  Prior to modern Transport (starting with the Erie Canal) it wasn't cost effective to ship agricultural products from the Midwest to the East Coast so the food to feed the people living in Coastal cities had to be grown within a fairly short distance of those cities so that it could be shipped by horse/ox cart.  This, however, was very difficult.  New England's soils are notoriously rocky and not very flat unlike the soils of the Midwest that are more-or-less ideal for growing grains.  

Farmers further away couldn't cost effectively ship grain so what they typically did was to distill their grain into spirits because liquor is less bulky and thus more cost-effective to ship.  This was the underlying cause of the Whiskey Rebellion.  

Back to the backstory:
The one major exception to this issue was the Mississippi river.  There are no natural obstacles to navigation along the Mississippi for hundreds of miles inland.  However, there were still problems including:


The result of all of this was that if you lived in Western New York, Western Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, etc prior to the opening of the Erie Canal, you were basically off the grid and not really part of the global economy.  These people were mostly subsistence farmers and they had to do all of their own manufacturing.  It simply wasn't cost effective to ship the agricultural products out or the manufactured goods (clothes, shoes, farm implements, etc) in.  

Some trade did happen.  River boats were built all along the Mississippi and it's tributaries, filled with grain, and floated down to NOLA where the grain was sold for transport on Oceangoing ships and the ships were sold for lumber either to build Oceangoing ships or NOLA's houses.  This, however, was limited.  

Then, in 1825 the Erie Canal opened.  Agricultural products from anywhere within reasonable shipping distance of Lake Erie, Lake Huron, Lake Michigan, or Lake Superior or the various rivers that flow into them could be shipped across the great lakes to Buffalo then along the Erie Canal to Albany, then down the Hudson to NYC and into the Global Economy.  In reverse, Manufactured Goods from all over the world could be shipped to NYC, up the Hudson to Albany, along the Erie Canal to Buffalo, and across the great lakes to all of the upper Midwest.  


I find it amazing to think of this in more personal terms.  Imagine that your father fought in the Revolution and that you were born in Connecticut a few years after the war in say 1790.  Then suppose that your father relocated the family to land given to him by the State of Connecticut for his service in the Revolution so you, your siblings, and your parents moved to Medina, Ohio (or similar) in 1803 right when Ohio became a State.  

You'd have been 13 when you helped your family clear fields for farming and build a log cabin or similar structure literally in the wilderness.  Then for a little better than 20 years you'd have lived like that, as a subsistence farmer in the wilderness with little-or-no connection to the outside world.  You may have had cousins your age who stayed behind in Connecticut and you'd never see them and probably not even be able to communicate by letter because there wasn't a Post Office in the wilderness where you lived.  For those 20 years you'd have grown your own food and made basically EVERYTHING you needed from shoes to plows to shirts to saddles you'd have had to make it all yourself.  

Then in 1825 the Erie Canal opened and suddenly ships just ~30 miles from your home in Cleveland would have been available to ship your Agricultural Products out and to bring back shoes, clothes, plows, saddles, etc.  

In the same year that the Erie Canal opened, Ohio began construction of the Ohio and Erie Canal from Cleveland to Portsmouth.  That shortened the distance you needed to haul things even more because Medina is only about 20 miles from the closest point along that canal which opened fully in 1832 when this hypothetical child born in 1790 was 42.  

At that point you'd have also been able to send mail to your long lost cousins back in Connecticut.  Within a few more years you'd have been able to take a train to visit them.  

We think of the pace of change as being faster today but I'm not so sure.  The change from being a wilderness settler at the age of 35 to being a connected part of the global economy at the age of 42 to taking a train (unheard of when you were born) to visit relatives hundreds of miles away when you were in your 50's is staggering.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on March 31, 2025, 07:13:30 PM
What were the approximate dimensions of the Erie Canal ?  From what I remember in school it was very narrow and mules would drag the barges up and down. The mules were obviously on shore, I have no idea of the pulling arrangement. And was it hand dug?  I would think there was no machinery at the time. I know it was very important in its day. 

On a side note, did anyone else sing the Erie Canal song in school like we did ?  I vaguely recall something about 16 miles up the Erie Canal. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 31, 2025, 07:22:23 PM
On a side note, did anyone else sing the Erie Canal song in school like we did ?  I vaguely recall something about 16 miles up the Erie Canal.
Did anyone other than me get Casimir Pulaski day off every year in school? @847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) ??
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on March 31, 2025, 07:34:40 PM
I was up in wine country for most of this ancestry talk...

Is it "weird" that I don't really give a sh!t about the "history" of my family ancestry? I mean, maybe I can't claim to be a direct descendant of Richard the Lionheart like so many I've heard claim... I'm just an Eastern European mutt with ancestors who came in the late 1800s from Poland, Ukraine, Germany, and Austria (as best we can tell). 

But if I think of my cultural lineage as an American, I think more of the Magna Carta->Glorious Revolution->Scottish Enlightenment->American Revolution and the like. I feel like English Common Law drives more of my cultural heritage than anything that happened in Eastern Europe. Except for my love of sauerkraut, which must be genetic...

Maybe I'm just not into all that... But I just don't feel like it's all that important. Which is probably a "me" problem...
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on March 31, 2025, 10:14:37 PM
I was up in wine country for most of this ancestry talk...

Is it "weird" that I don't really give a sh!t about the "history" of my family ancestry? I mean, maybe I can't claim to be a direct descendant of Richard the Lionheart like so many I've heard claim... I'm just an Eastern European mutt with ancestors who came in the late 1800s from Poland, Ukraine, Germany, and Austria (as best we can tell).

But if I think of my cultural lineage as an American, I think more of the Magna Carta->Glorious Revolution->Scottish Enlightenment->American Revolution and the like. I feel like English Common Law drives more of my cultural heritage than anything that happened in Eastern Europe. Except for my love of sauerkraut, which must be genetic...

Maybe I'm just not into all that... But I just don't feel like it's all that important. Which is probably a "me" problem...
I’m with you. None of my ancestors were remotely rich or famous that I can tell. I figure that in order to leave their country behind with little more than their clothes and maybe a trunk or something they were probably pretty poor. I really don’t know much about them past my great grandparents. Surprisingly you can find out a lot of info from find-a-grave. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on March 31, 2025, 10:23:01 PM
the future is all we have
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 01, 2025, 08:01:02 AM
Did anyone other than me get Casimir Pulaski day off every year in school? @847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) ??
Yes.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 01, 2025, 08:54:39 AM
What Really Happened To Glenn Miller?

https://youtu.be/a8AZ2-syqxc

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 01, 2025, 09:14:06 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Apple Inc. Is Formed (1976)
Apple Computer, Inc., was the first successful personal computer company. The company has its roots in the Jobs family's garage, where cofounders Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak assembled the first Apple computer. Consisting of a handmade motherboard, the Apple I did not even include a monitor or keyboard. The Apple II, introduced the next year with a plastic case and color graphics, launched Apple to success. By 1980, Apple had earned more than $100 million.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MikeDeTiger on April 01, 2025, 10:57:13 AM
I was up in wine country for most of this ancestry talk...

Is it "weird" that I don't really give a sh!t about the "history" of my family ancestry? I mean, maybe I can't claim to be a direct descendant of Richard the Lionheart like so many I've heard claim... I'm just an Eastern European mutt with ancestors who came in the late 1800s from Poland, Ukraine, Germany, and Austria (as best we can tell).

But if I think of my cultural lineage as an American, I think more of the Magna Carta->Glorious Revolution->Scottish Enlightenment->American Revolution and the like. I feel like English Common Law drives more of my cultural heritage than anything that happened in Eastern Europe. Except for my love of sauerkraut, which must be genetic...

Maybe I'm just not into all that... But I just don't feel like it's all that important. Which is probably a "me" problem...


In general, I agree with you.  To try and learn the story of the family name just scratches an itch of curiosity, nothing more.  It doesn't change the way I see myself in the least.  Learning that while I'm probably not descended from Richard the Lionheart (that's a thing??  a lot of people claim that?) but might be descended from the actual sheriff of Nottingham was, more than anything, hilarious to me.  Learning that I might be descended from a trans-atlantic slave trader is not hilarious, but it still doesn't change a thing about me or how I see myself, and I have no white guilt or any other stupid thing I'm supposed to feel guilty about in today's world.  I file it under "interesting," not "important."  

The men my grandfathers were, and the man my dad is, means something to me.  What I do in my life will tell my story, not what a bunch of my ancestors did.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on April 01, 2025, 10:59:53 AM
I have some Irish, Scots-Irish, and Scottish blood.  So I enjoyed looking up what my clan tartan might be.  Other than that, it doesn't matter to me very much.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 01, 2025, 11:16:34 AM
What were the approximate dimensions of the Erie Canal ?  From what I remember in school it was very narrow and mules would drag the barges up and down. The mules were obviously on shore, I have no idea of the pulling arrangement. And was it hand dug?  I would think there was no machinery at the time. I know it was very important in its day.

On a side note, did anyone else sing the Erie Canal song in school like we did ?  I vaguely recall something about 16 miles up the Erie Canal.
From WIKI, it was 40' wide by 4' deep when constructed in 1825.  It was subsequently expanded.  One of the reasons for expansion was they discovered that even though the 4' depth was sufficient for the early canal boats, it was so close that the bottoms of the boats were close enough to the bottom of the canal to cause major erosion as they moved above it.  

The song was actually written by a professional songwriter in the 1900's, long after the canal's heyday was past.  It wasn't actually sung by people on the canal.  

The Erie Canal had an immense impact on the US but one thing that fascinates me about it is that the Canal era ended almost before it began.  As it happened, the first public steam railway in the world was the Stockton and Darlington Railway in England and that opened the same year as the Erie Canal, 1825.  As railways spread across the United States, they rapidly overtook canals for passenger service and eventually freight because they were MUCH faster and operated all year instead of seasonally like the Canals.  

Yes it was hand dug by men and mules.  When they had to crack rock they didn't have TNT (invented in 1891 - as an explosive) so they had to use Black Gunpowder.  Another method they used was to heat rocks with fires then pour cold water over them to crack them.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 03, 2025, 09:34:59 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Oscar Wilde's Libel Case Begins (1895)
When the marquess of Queensbury became convinced that his son, Alfred Douglas, was having an affair with Wilde, he began to rail against the author and playwright, publicly accusing Wilde of sodomy, a crime at the time. At Douglas's urging, Wilde sued the marquess for libel. He not only lost the case, but was in turn charged with homosexual offenses and arrested. Wilde was convicted in an internationally notorious trial and served two years hard labor.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 03, 2025, 11:47:39 AM
Merry Old England,eh gotta love the spin,considering the crap their so called Royals pulled even going back before Henry VIII this was at least consenting
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 03, 2025, 12:06:07 PM
On this date

1865 Union forces occupy Confederate capital of Richmond & Petersberg, Virginia

1868 Hawaiian surfs on the highest wave ever - a 50-foot tidal wave

1882 American outlaw Jesse James is shot in the back of the head and killed by fellow gang member Robert Ford at his home in St. Joseph, Missouri

1917 Vladimir Lenin arrives in Petrograd, returning to Russia from exile in Switzerland

1922 Joseph Stalin is appointed General Secretary of the Russian Communist Party by an ailing Vladimir Lenin

1926 Second flight of a liquid-fueled rocket by American Robert Goddard

1968 Science fiction film "Planet of the Apes", starring Charlton Heston and Roddy McDowell, opens nationally in the United States

1970 Miriam Hargrave of England passes her drivers test on 40th attempt

1971 The Temptations score their second US No. 1 with "Just My Imagination (Running Away With Me)"

1973 First mobile phone call is made in downtown Manhattan, NY, by Motorola employee Martin Cooper to Bell Labs headquarters in New Jersey

1974 The Super Outbreak: 2nd largest tornado outbreak over 24hr period with 148 confirmed tornadoes in 13 US states, killing approximately 315 people and injuring nearly 5,500


1988 Mario Lemieux wins NHL scoring title, stopping Gretzky's 7 year streak

2007 Rolling Stones guitarist Keith Richards denies saying he smoked his father's ashes in an interview with NME

2020 US aircraft carrier captain Brett Crozier cheered off his ship after being fired for a letter demanding more help for his sailors infected with COVID-19

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 04, 2025, 09:09:40 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

World Trade Center Opens in New York City (1973)
With seven buildings and a shopping concourse, the World Trade Center in lower Manhattan was the largest commercial complex in the world before it was destroyed in the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. Its most prominent structures were the 110-story rectangular Twin Towers, which, at more than 1,360 ft (415 m) tall, were the tallest buildings in the world until the Sears Tower surpassed them in 1974.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 06, 2025, 08:45:13 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Founding of The Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-Day Saints (1830)
Shortly after Joseph Smith published the Book of Mormon in 1830, he officially founded The Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-day Saints—also known as the Mormon Church—in Fayette, New York. The church flourished but was forced to relocate frequently. It was violently expelled from Missouri, and a mob killed Smith in Illinois in 1844. His successor, Brigham Young, led followers to Utah three years later.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 07, 2025, 08:47:20 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The World Health Organization Is Established (1948)
World Health Day is observed every year on April 7 to mark the founding of the World Health Organization (WHO), a UN agency whose main objective is to promote "the highest possible level of health" in all people. Coordinating international efforts to prevent, control, and treat illness, it has worked to successfully eradicate smallpox and has made notable strides in checking polio, leprosy, cholera, and malaria.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 07, 2025, 09:49:24 AM
This is the 1,813-kilometer-long Haoji Railway Bridge in China. It is the longest railway bridge in the world, the bridge is used for the transportation of coal. The total cost was around 28 billion US dollars. It was built to transport 200 million tons of coal from Inner Mongolia and Shanxi to the southern provinces of China. It is a heavy rail system with 1435 gauge tracks The railway is also China's first north-south railway that is dedicated to coal, and is built to avoid existing coal transportation routes that pass through coastal cities by boat. The line reduces transit time from 20 days by sea to just 3 days by rail. The line connects with existing railways at several points to share maintenance facilities. The design speed of the railway is 120 kilometers per hour. It is operated by China Railway. The line was approved in 2014 at a cost of 27 billion USD. It was financed by China Railway and several large national coal mining companies. The railway was inaugurated on September 28, 2019.

(https://i.imgur.com/bFLJOXj.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on April 08, 2025, 07:29:58 PM
Not really history I guess. But humorous. 

The President of Nintendo of America’s last name is Bowser. 


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Bowser
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 08, 2025, 09:48:16 PM
if it happened yesterday it's history
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 09, 2025, 08:49:14 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The American Civil War Ends at Appomattox Court House (1865)
The first major engagement of the US Civil War was the First Battle of Bull Run, fought in 1861 partly on the farm of Wilmer McLean in Manassas, Virginia. A few years later, McLean moved to Appomattox Court House, a town which, coincidentally, would soon be the site of the war's effective end. It was there that Confederate General Robert E. Lee surrendered to Union General Ulysses S. Grant in McLean's parlor.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 10, 2025, 09:02:06 AM
ARTICLE OF THE DAY: 

The Ghost Dance
The Ghost Dance is the main ritual of a messianic religious movement that gained a widespread following among Native American groups in the American West during the late 19th century. The dance, which incorporates traditional circle dance rituals, was created by a member of the Paiute tribe known as Wovoka, who taught that it would hasten the ousting of whites, the restoration of traditional lands, and the resurrection of the dead. What role did the Ghost Dance play in the Wounded Knee massacre?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 11, 2025, 08:39:00 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Buchenwald Concentration Camp Liberated by American Troops (1945)
Buchenwald was one of the first and largest concentration camps in Nazi Germany. As US forces closed in on the camp near the end of WWII, the Nazis began evacuating its prisoners, forcing them on "death marches" during which an estimated 13,500 were killed. On April 9, inmates at the camp used a makeshift radio transmitter to inform the Allies about the evacuations and beg for help.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 12, 2025, 09:19:00 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Liberian President William R. Tolbert Is Killed in Military Coup (1980)
Liberia was founded in the 1820s by former slaves from the US, and tensions between the Americo-Liberian minority and the indigenous majority have persisted since that time. On April 12, 1980, a group of soldiers led by Samuel Kanyon Doe stormed the executive mansion, killing Americo-Liberian President William R. Tolbert and 27 other government leaders. Doe, a member of the ethnic Krahn tribe, then declared himself president.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 12, 2025, 12:52:43 PM
The use of camouflage in the First World War took many forms, among them, camouflage trees.

A camouflage tree was an observation post made from a hollow metal cylinder, which was camouflaged to resemble a dead tree.

Camouflaged observation posts were highly valuable during the First World War. Troops were locked in trench warfare and needed a solution to help track enemy movements without being seen, while also being protected should they come under enemy attack.

The first British armoured tree was erected in March 1916. Follow the journey of one of the most unusual items in our collection, from its creation and use in the First World War, to its conservation and return to our First World War Galleries at IWM London.

The camouflage tree

The First World War 'camouflage tree' – a metal observation post made to look like a pollarded willow
This is a First World War period 'camouflage tree'. The tree was used as an observation post and was made to resemble a pollarded willow tree.

(https://i.imgur.com/64aMLzT.jpeg)

https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/the-journey-of-the-camouflage-tree (https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/the-journey-of-the-camouflage-tree)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 12, 2025, 12:57:03 PM
Lot of work if and when the front lines move
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 12, 2025, 01:17:45 PM
they had plenty of man power and time
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 12, 2025, 02:06:44 PM
the otherside mowing them down with watercooled machine guns might put a wrench in those plans
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 12, 2025, 02:19:45 PM
dat's why they replaced the real tree with the fake at night
under the cover of darkness (maybe a moonless night)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 13, 2025, 08:43:21 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Sidney Poitier Becomes the First African American to Win Best Actor Oscar (1964)
The first African American to achieve leading man status in Hollywood, Poitier began acting with the American Negro Theatre in New York City and made his film debut soon after. He won acclaim on Broadway for his role in 1959's A Raisin in the Sun and, in 1964, became the first African American to win the Academy Award for Best Actor, for his role in Lilies of the Field. Many of his films address issues of race
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 13, 2025, 08:51:16 AM
https://youtu.be/a_kUIiVkDYw
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2025, 05:17:14 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/1J71l18.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 14, 2025, 06:32:23 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/BFSK4Ou.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 14, 2025, 07:19:45 AM
1865 US President Abraham Lincoln is shot in the head by John Wilkes Booth at Ford's Theatre in Washington; he dies a day later

1912 RMS Titanic, the world's largest ocean liner, hits an iceberg at 11:40pm off Newfoundland and sinks in the early hours of April 15

1935 Black Sunday dust storm ravages the US Midwest, leading to the region being named the "Dust Bowl"

About wraps it up
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 15, 2025, 08:09:30 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
Ray Kroc Opens His First McDonald's Franchise (1955)
Brothers Dick and Mac McDonald opened their first restaurant in San Bernardino, California, in 1940 and introduced the "Speedee Service System," establishing the principles of the modern fast-food restaurant. Ray Kroc, a mixer salesman, recognized the idea's potential and partnered with the brothers. Kroc opened his first McDonald's franchise in Illinois in 1955 and later bought out the McDonald brothers. The company now has a global presence.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 16, 2025, 08:54:57 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

The Virginia Tech Massacre (2007)
The Virginia Tech massacre was the deadliest peacetime shooting episode in US history by a single gunman. Seung-Hui Cho, the perpetrator, had a long history of mental illness when he enrolled at Virginia Tech University and was, in 2005, declared mentally ill by a Virginia court and ordered to seek treatment. Sixteen months later, Cho, in two separate attacks hours apart, shot and killed 32 people at the university and then himself.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MikeDeTiger on April 16, 2025, 09:52:32 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

The Virginia Tech Massacre (2007)
The Virginia Tech massacre was the deadliest peacetime shooting episode in US history by a single gunman. Seung-Hui Cho, the perpetrator, had a long history of mental illness when he enrolled at Virginia Tech University and was, in 2005, declared mentally ill by a Virginia court and ordered to seek treatment. Sixteen months later, Cho, in two separate attacks hours apart, shot and killed 32 people at the university and then himself.

Weird how memory plays tricks on you.  I'd have guessed this happened in the late summer, right before the start of season.  That fall, we played VT in the second game and there was a lot of tribute, moment of silence, etc. for that tragedy.  I do remember people saying maybe it would fall flat since VT had already played a game and would've gotten their emotions out of the way....obviously the week 2 game was on a lot more TVs and much higher profile, so both schools decided to recognize the tragedy there.  But I thought it had basically just happened right before the season, not 5 months earlier.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 16, 2025, 01:25:59 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/KcGGh4W.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 18, 2025, 03:19:13 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 
US Federal Court Rules to Release Ezra Pound from Mental Hospital (1958)
An influential American poet and literary critic, Pound spent most of his life in Europe. At the end of WWII, he was arrested for treason by the US for making public broadcasts in Italy supporting anti-Semitism and Fascism. Judged insane, he was committed to a hospital in Washington, DC, until Ernest Hemingway and other friends secured his release 12 years later. In the early weeks of his incarceration, he began showing signs of a mental breakdown,
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 18, 2025, 06:29:18 PM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY:

87 yrs ago Superman created by writer Jerry Siegel and artist Joe Shuster in Cleveland first appears in Action Comics book #1, published in America on April 18, 1938.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 19, 2025, 08:33:47 AM
TODAY'S BIRTHDAY: 

Eliot Ness (1903)
Ness was 26 years old when he was hired as a special agent of the US Department of Justice to head its Chicago Prohibition bureau, with the express purpose of breaking up the bootlegging network of Al Capone. He formed a nine-man team of unbribable officers known as "the Untouchables." Numerous attempts were made on his life, and one of his friends was killed, but he eventually helped take down Capone, who was convicted on tax evasion charges.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 19, 2025, 09:42:07 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/JYXLYIY.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 21, 2025, 08:01:00 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

World's Fair Starts in Seattle, Washington (1962)
Hosted at the dawn of the Space Age, the 1962 World's Fair featured a glittering array of futuristic technology. Nearly 10 million people came to see the new cars and gadgets or ride to the top of the new Space Needle. While its technology was advanced, the fair anticipated none of the social changes soon to come—the society of the future looked like that of 1950s, but with gyrocopters. Why did US President John F. Kennedy lie, claiming to be too sick to attend the closing ceremony?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 21, 2025, 08:11:54 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/w7Pwr9o.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 21, 2025, 08:15:46 AM
derned book writers
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 22, 2025, 07:19:12 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/sAndnYM.png)

The seeds of conflict.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 22, 2025, 08:09:06 AM
Blood Eagle Torture

Referenced in some Norse saga literature, the Blood Eagle is a form of torture and execution performed by cutting the victim's ribs by the spine, breaking them to resemble blood-stained wings, and pulling the lungs out through the gaping wound. Though some cite archaeological evidence of the practice, others argue that it never occurred and that accounts of the method are based on folklore or inaccurate translations.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 22, 2025, 08:12:25 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Japanese Embassy Hostage Crisis Ends in Lima, Peru (1997)
The Japanese ambassador to Peru was holding a party at his home in Lima on December 17, 1996, when 14 members of a revolutionary militant group stormed the compound, taking more than 400 guests hostage. Most were released in the following weeks, but 72 Japanese and Peruvian hostages were held until April, when Peruvian military forces swarmed the building and killed the militants. Only one hostage and two commandos died, and the raid was deemed a success.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2025, 08:26:53 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/atqyCcC.png)

One of the first circular all purpose stadia in the US.  Built for about $16 million, it cost $64 million to tear down and haul away.  It was a real dump by modern standards.  That area today is being developed for residential use, and the old Turner Field next door is used by Georgia State.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on April 23, 2025, 08:37:37 AM
Houston Astrodome in 1964:

(https://i.imgur.com/vHJjehq.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on April 23, 2025, 04:15:23 PM
Houston Astrodome in 1964:

(https://i.imgur.com/vHJjehq.png)
Don't know how often you went there but as a kid walking thru the tunnel to the seats was amazing.  They called it the 8th wonder of the world, and Houstonians were mighty proud of that.  Strange to think that it really was built out in the boonies in that picture.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on April 23, 2025, 05:13:10 PM
Used to go see the Astros pretty much every summer with my grandparents.  They lived in Temple and we'd stay with them for a week or two while my mom and dad got time to themselves.  They had "kin" in Houston and we'd go visit them for a day or two, and hit up the sights while in town.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2025, 06:24:54 PM
February 12, 2025
By: Noel Morris ©️2025

Beethoven’s last decade is as much a psychological journey as a musical one. For sure, the audacity and experimentation that defined his “heroic decade” fed into his later works. But he suffered a dry spell and emerged a more introspective and philosophical composer.

As he inched toward his forty-third birthday, he'd completed eight symphonies, five piano concertos, and trunkloads of chamber works. His Seventh Symphony drew applause that “rose to the point of ecstasy.” But privately, he felt the ground shifting beneath his feet.

Napoleon, the so-called great liberator, faltered along with Beethoven’s hopes for freedom and universal brotherhood. The Austrian emperor reasserted his iron grip. Beethoven’s circle of benefactors dwindled, and his hearing grew worse. On top of that, documents point to a failed romance. (We know little about the woman he called his “Immortal Beloved.”)

Between 1813 and early 1815, he banged out a series of crowdpleasers, boosting his popularity around Vienna while offering little for posterity. Biographer Maynard Solomon wrote: “These works, filled with bombastic rhetoric and ‘patriotic’ excesses, mark the nadir of Beethoven’s artistic career.” And then, like a caterpillar, he went dormant.
(https://www.aso.org/assets/img/LateBeethoven-b8031bb19c.jpeg)
Now clinically deaf and chronically ill, Beethoven gave his last public piano performance in January 1815. That same year, his brother Caspar Carl died, and Ludwig blundered through a five-year custody battle over his nephew. Music took a back seat to the unfortunate legal proceedings against the boy’s mother. Meanwhile, he let himself go; his hair grew matted and his clothes shabby. Necessarily, the outside world communicated with him via pen and paper. Lubricating himself with bottles of wine, he shared laughs with his friends and railed against the Emperor. (The secret police ignored him because he was a famous composer and seemed a little touched in the head.)

Beethoven re-emerged as a composer in 1818 to write his colossal Hammerklavier Sonata. Music critic Harry Haskell notes the Sonata’s “sharp dynamic contrasts, sudden shifts of register and texture, and bold juxtapositions of keys.” From this point on, Beethoven is at one with his imagination; he’s unfettered by the hearing world's distractions, conventions, and demands. Sharp contrasts and bold juxtapositions became his vocabulary for pushing his late works into a realm of their own.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 23, 2025, 07:25:54 PM
2010-B101-The-Confederate-Powder-Works-at-Augusta-.pdf (https://americansocietyofarmscollectors.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/2010-B101-The-Confederate-Powder-Works-at-Augusta-.pdf)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Gigem on April 23, 2025, 08:17:55 PM
Used to go see the Astros pretty much every summer with my grandparents.  They lived in Temple and we'd stay with them for a week or two while my mom and dad got time to themselves.  They had "kin" in Houston and we'd go visit them for a day or two, and hit up the sights while in town. 
I’m sure then you remember the home run scoreboard ?  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 24, 2025, 11:28:42 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Hersheypark Opens in Pennsylvania (1907)
Milton Hershey, founder of the Hershey Chocolate Company, originally created Hersheypark for his employees. Situated along a creek, it was a good spot for boating, picnicking, and enjoying baseball, which is what visitors did on the park's first day in 1907. The next year, the park added its first ride, a carousel. Over the decades, as the park expanded, it grew from a regional amusement to a national attraction.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 24, 2025, 11:30:38 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/XciyzlS.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on April 24, 2025, 11:34:14 AM
I prefer V=IR



Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MikeDeTiger on April 24, 2025, 12:07:01 PM
I prefer V=IR

That's the "ee" in utee coming out.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 24, 2025, 12:14:04 PM
I would expect this one to trump most others around here:

(https://i.imgur.com/TYDOmGh.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 24, 2025, 12:22:48 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/RRHGLqY.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MikeDeTiger on April 24, 2025, 12:28:15 PM
Buncha STEM nerds up in here.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 24, 2025, 12:40:06 PM
He was the first player ever to be drafted in the NFL, but he never played a professional game (https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/he-was-the-first-player-ever-to-be-drafted-in-the-nfl-but-he-never-played-a-professional-game/ar-AA1DrTpx?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=edace5c9bba6428f9511157b647f3d45&ei=24)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on April 24, 2025, 12:45:22 PM
Aside from Ohm's law, I find this one to be the most applicable to everyday life:

PV=nRT

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 24, 2025, 01:03:12 PM
In an ideal world, sure. 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MikeDeTiger on April 24, 2025, 01:14:38 PM
In an ideal world, sure.

ISWYDT

For me, an ideal gas law would be a physical law whereby I don't have gas when I'm around other people in meetings, church, etc.  Only when I'm by myself.  That would be ideal.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: utee94 on April 24, 2025, 01:19:02 PM
For me the ideal gas law would be that my i s c & a aggie wife fills her gas tank regularly and doesn't play "dare the fuel gauge" as we're limping along to the nearest gas station.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 24, 2025, 01:40:20 PM
For me the ideal gas law would be that my i s c & a aggie wife fills her gas tank regularly and doesn't play "dare the fuel gauge" as we're limping along to the nearest gas station.
You get this too?
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on April 24, 2025, 01:42:47 PM
For me the ideal gas law would be that my i s c & a aggie wife fills her gas tank regularly and doesn't play "dare the fuel gauge" as we're limping along to the nearest gas station.
You get this too?
Same issue here.  It REALLY concerns me here in Ohio in winter.  I don't mind this game so much when it is warm out but in the winter around here you never know when you might end up stuck on a closed road for several hours.  
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on April 24, 2025, 02:05:29 PM
As we talked about the other day, *I'm* the one that is more likely to get my gas tank down pretty far before filling. My wife is paranoid about running out of gas, so she's probably not often filling up with less than ~15-20 miles to empty reported by the car. 

But for the most part, we don't drive each other's cars very often, and when we go out together I drive 95%+ of the time, and I prefer to do it in my Flex. So I rarely ride in her car and thus never really stress about her gas level. 
 
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2025, 08:31:56 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/XemFOyK.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 25, 2025, 09:56:17 AM
Nubbz has a thread for that
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 25, 2025, 07:26:18 PM
Nubbz has a thread for that
Nubbz has a phone like that too,well not really - asst manager was back in the Docks and threw it out with my lunch with the rest of what he thought was garbage. Didn't know it until i went looking for my lunch bag. Told him he was lucky I wasn't a techie it'd cost him a lot more than 60 bucks
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: MrNubbz on April 25, 2025, 07:34:40 PM
Was Gerald Ford lucky or not
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Hj1Tcbddey8?feature=share
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 25, 2025, 08:12:44 PM
Football Retired Jerseys - University of Tennessee Athletics (https://utsports.com/sports/2017/6/14/history-m-footbl-retired-jerseys-html.aspx)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 25, 2025, 11:03:04 PM
Nubbz has a phone like that too,well not really - asst manager was back in the Docks and threw it out with my lunch with the rest of what he thought was garbage. Didn't know it until i went looking for my lunch bag. Told him he was lucky I wasn't a techie it'd cost him a lot more than 60 bucks
you had a $60 phone???
Weird
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2025, 08:49:55 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/DJx9e92.png)

I idly wonder when curve balls started to be thrown.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 26, 2025, 10:09:29 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Syria Ends Occupation of Lebanon (2005)
In 1976, with his country embroiled in a deadly civil war, the Lebanese president turned to Syria for assistance. At his request, Syrian forces entered Lebanon. Despite their 29-year presence, the Syrians were unable to secure lasting stability. By 2005, Syrian influence in Lebanese government had provoked protests, which intensified after the assassination of Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, and Syrian troops finally withdrew in April.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2025, 11:32:32 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/S1WoBON.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2025, 11:34:03 AM
I don't know why Volcano is considered odd, it's a small town on the slopes of a volcano.  Hilo is a city near it that has a bit of an odd name.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2025, 03:12:35 PM
In 1922, a group of scientists went to the Toronto General Hospital where diabetic children were kept in wards, often 50 or more at a time. Most of them were comatose and dying from diabetic ketoacidosis. Others were being treated by being placed on an extremely strict diet, which inevitably led to starvation.
This is known as one of medicine's most incredible moments. Imagine a room full of parents sitting at the bedside waiting for the inevitable death of their child.
The scientists went from bed to bed and injected the children with a new purified extract: it was called insulin.
As they began to inject the last comatose child, the first child injected began to awaken. Then one by one, all the children awoke from their diabetic comas. A room of death and gloom became a place of joy and hope.
In the early 1920s Frederick Banting and Charles Best discovered insulin under the directorship of John Macleod at the University of Toronto. With the help of James Collip insulin was purified, making it available for the successful treatment of diabetes.
In the same year, Banting, Collip, and Best decided to sell the insulin patent to the University of Toronto for $1.
Banting and Macleod earned a Nobel Prize for their work in 1923.


Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 26, 2025, 03:23:15 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/nqxk9FS.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 26, 2025, 10:15:37 PM
what cheer???

what??
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2025, 09:42:17 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/ndVFBWt.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 27, 2025, 10:39:16 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/mv5qoqw.png)

Bulgaria is kind of interesting, to me.  Borders changed because of wars.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 28, 2025, 09:26:34 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Charles de Gaulle Resigns as President of France (1969)
A celebrated general and statesman, de Gaulle was elected first president of France's Fifth Republic—a system of government with broad executive powers—in 1959. He helped write the constitution and pushed for direct popular election of the president. The mass civil unrest of May 1968 by students and workers almost toppled his government, and in 1969 de Gaulle was defeated in a referendum on constitutional amendments and resigned. He died just a year later.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2025, 09:42:42 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/QHFjGP8.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2025, 10:03:08 AM
On 28 April 1962 Linus Pauling (shown left, holding sign) joined protesters in front of the White House to protest against the testing of nuclear weapons. After World War II Pauling, a celebrated scientist, was at the forefront of voices speaking out against the emerging nuclear arms race, despite his actions labelling him a suspected communist.

Ultimately his efforts paid off – a treaty banning nuclear testing came into force on 10 October 1963. On the same day, Pauling was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for his work. It was his second award, having previously received the Nobel Prize in Chemistry in 1954.

Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 28, 2025, 12:00:05 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/hyeExcW.png)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 30, 2025, 08:47:57 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/zaoZ21V.jpeg)
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: FearlessF on April 30, 2025, 08:54:59 AM
THIS DAY IN HISTORY: 

Casey Jones Dies on the Cannonball Express (1900)
Jones was an American locomotive engineer whose main claim to fame, until his fateful run on the Cannonball Express, was his punctuality. On April 30, 1900, he was driving the Cannonball Express south on a dangerous, accident-prone run when he suddenly saw a stalled freight train ahead. Instead of jumping to safety, he stayed to slow his train, saving his coworkers and passengers but losing his own life in the process.
Title: Re: OT - Weird History
Post by: Cincydawg on April 30, 2025, 10:25:56 AM
In 1968, researcher John B. Calhoun conducted a famous experiment known as “Universe 25,” in which he created a "mouse utopia" with unlimited food, water, and no predators. At first, the mouse population grew rapidly, but as overcrowding increased, their social behaviors began to deteriorate.

Mice formed aggressive cliques, mothers neglected or attacked their offspring, and some individuals became isolated and apathetic.
Despite the continued abundance of resources, reproduction eventually ceased altogether, and the population collapsed to extinction.
Calhoun described this phenomenon as a "behavioral sink," suggesting that social breakdown, rather than material scarcity, was responsible for the collapse.