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Topic: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.

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Cincydawg

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1512 on: December 05, 2019, 08:38:45 AM »
TT, good thought, I know almost nothing about them.

longhorn320

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1513 on: December 05, 2019, 09:19:32 AM »
TT, good thought, I know almost nothing about them.
all offense no defense
generally very good spread quarterbacks
good receivers
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utee94

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1514 on: December 05, 2019, 09:34:38 AM »
Tech's gonna be in a tough spot for a while I think.  I'd go with someone like KSU, ISU, or OkState.  I'd throw WVU in there too, but not sure how their new coaching is going to work out.  

CWSooner

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1515 on: December 05, 2019, 11:26:15 AM »
Iowa State.

PR picked a good one.  Now that he's gone from the board, you (CD) could do much worse than picking up where he left off.
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Cincydawg

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1516 on: December 05, 2019, 11:46:38 AM »
Yeah, I watched Iowa State a few times last year and this year, more last than this.  I liked how they play the game, almost Wisconsinesque.

Cincydawg

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1517 on: December 05, 2019, 11:55:29 AM »
Is there some basic reason the B12 is more "offensively minded"?  How long has that been the case?  Did OU "start it"?  Could a defensive team like say UGA manage to do well in that conference?   I can recall when the Pac seemed to be all O and no D.


FearlessF

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1518 on: December 05, 2019, 12:09:01 PM »
Mike Leach and the spread
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utee94

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1519 on: December 05, 2019, 01:08:33 PM »
It's somewhat circular.  The spread was perceived as a new, high-powered offense that Mike Leach largely brought to the conference, and it started producing video game numbers.  As always happens in football, imitators began trying it out as well, including high school teams.  Once a large number of high schools in the state of Texas were running variations of the spread, the talent became trained in that direction, and because most B12 schools recruit Texas quite heavily, it became almost necessary, or at least logical, for the college teams to increase their use of the spread.  It became a bit of a feedback loop at that point.




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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1520 on: December 05, 2019, 01:26:09 PM »
The end of the SWC (in 1995) was a lot of Pro-Style 2 back teams.  When the Big 12 was created out of the Big 8 and the SWC, the big boy on the block was Nebraska. They famously ran a merciless option attack that was power and more power.

In order to be competitive, defenses had to deploy massive DTs and huge, hulking LBs. The secondary's emphasis was on making tackles and stopping sweeps.

When Mike Leach arrived to be the Sooners' offensive coordinator in the late 90's, he went completely the other direction. he wanted small, fast receivers - and a million of them! Early returns weren't good. It took too much coordination between passers and catchers to pull it off, and collegiate players only had 4 seasons to get it right. It was just too difficult.

Leach, for all his wackiness, really is a very intelligent guy. He devoted more time and thought to the problem. He put together concepts that pulled apart defenses, showed his QBs where the vulnerabilities were, and had his receivers run to them. Since "dime" coverage at the time was a silly notion only deployed against 4th and 20 situations, no one had enough defenders to even slow that machine down!

Please note that a lot of these concepts rely on the inherent advantages that the rules give to the offense. On a "behind the LOS" screen, the receivers can block. You can't block them, though, unless the pass has been thrown. Motion tips off zone or man. Essentially, it was just a given that these offenses were going to score - a lot!

The kids loved this PlayStation type offense! The high schools and QB camps began teaching these concepts so prospects arrived at college knowing how to throw a 20 yard back shoulder fade. The talent was going to go to schools where they could shine. Either you got with it and recruited them, or you were going to stand by helplessly - on the wrong side of a 52-10 route.

Big 12 schools would love to play defense. It's just easier to adapt a 6 man back end defense to stopping the run than it is to find a 4 man secondary that can shut down 5 WR and a QB trained to drop balls into a 10in window from 30 yards out.

CWSooner

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1521 on: December 05, 2019, 02:01:36 PM »
Mike Leach and the spread
Additional info: Bob Stoops hired him as his first OC at OU.  Leach left after that year to take the HFC position at Texas Tech, where he lasted until he was fired just before the 2009-2010 bowl season so that Tech would not have to pay his retention bonus.

Leach had served as Hal Mumme's OC at Valdosta State and Kentucky.  At Kentucky, they played Florida when Bob Stoops was the DC there.  Stoops always found the Mumme-Leach offense hard to defend, so he hired leach to be the OC when he took the OU job.

Mumme and Leach are "Air Raid" guys first and foremost.  But the spread formation can be used as the basis for a run-heavy attack as well.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2019, 05:26:01 PM by CWSooner »
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Gigem

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1522 on: December 05, 2019, 03:14:56 PM »
Additional info: Bob Stoops hired him as his first OC at OU.  Leach left after that year to take the HFC position at Texas Tech, where he lasted until he was fired just before the 1999-2000 bowl season so that Tech would not have to pay his retention bonus.

Leach had served as Hal Mumme's OC at Valdosta State and Kentucky.  At Kentucky, they played Florida when Bob Stoops was the DC there.  Stoops always found the Mumme-Leach offense hard to defend, so he hired leach to be the OC when he took the OU job.

Mumme and Leach are "Air Raid" guys first and foremost.  But the spread formation can be used as the basis for a run-heavy attack as well.
I know it's a typo but they canned him in 2009.  I still can't believe he was there only 10 seasons (2000-2009).  I thought it was longer than that.  He really had our number, but of course a lot of teams had our number then because we weren't very good.  I think he would have been insanely successful had he come to A&M instead of little Debbie Fran.  But, maybe not.  

utee94

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1523 on: December 05, 2019, 03:49:37 PM »
I thought Fran was going to be good at A&M.  His lack of success was surprising to me. My Aggie inlaws that went to his PR events told me he seemed pretty arrogant and aloof, not very likeable, and perhaps the team also didn't like him and never bought in?  I dunno.

If true, it sounds familiar to the way folks feel about Tom Herman.  Which is somewhat unsettling...

Gigem

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1524 on: December 05, 2019, 04:24:44 PM »
Tom Herman is nothing like Fran IMO.  Fran not only lost a lot of games, he got his ass kicked with regularity.  And I'm not talking 30-40 point losses.  I'm talking 77-0 stuff.  And his bowl record was atrocious (he only had 3 here).  In general our teams looked lost a lot.  We almost lost to Fresno and Army, but barely won by like 1 point.  And this was not a year where those teams were decent.  

He did manage to recruit a few decent players amazingly including Von Miller and Ryan Tannehill.  Tannehill was recruited as a WR but moved over to QB.  He still starts in the NFL, if you can believe that.  Of all the QB's we've had through here over the years freakin' Tannehill still plays in the league.  Not Johnny Football.  Not Reggie McNeal.  Not Stephen McGee.  Oh yeah, two dudes named Kyle and Kyler start too.    

Cincydawg

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1525 on: December 05, 2019, 04:31:38 PM »
The stylistic differences between conferences is interesting.  Now that LSU and perhaps Alabama have come up with wide open offenses, I wonder if the SEC will shift some as well.

 

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