Author
Topic: Rivalry Talk
(Read 17628 times)

longhorn320 · « **Reply #126 on:** August 20, 2021, 03:33:32 PM »

Quote from: FearlessF on August 20, 2021, 03:32:23 PM

that was a different time, different world

Osborne hung on for a decade while only upsetting the Sooners once in 78

sure wish we could go back to it

utee94 · « **Reply #127 on:** August 20, 2021, 03:33:51 PM »

Quote from: FearlessF on August 20, 2021, 03:31:01 PM

don't forget the CCG in San San antone in 1999

Yeah but that was before there was really a Brown-Stoops thing to even mention. Horns beat OU but were a mediocre 9-5 at the end of that year.

utee94 · « **Reply #128 on:** August 20, 2021, 03:35:11 PM »

Quote from: Gigem on August 20, 2021, 03:33:14 PM

Well don’t get me wrong, it was a helluva run, and I would trade places with those records and near misses in a heart beat. And Brown did bag a BCS championship in 2005 thanks to VY and co and then had the opportunity to play for another, so for 95% of the programs out there you can’t ask for more than that.

But still, to blame Stoops for not bringing home a little more hardware is a bit of a fallacy, because Mack should have won at least 3 more by my count.

You just keep proving my point. Like I said, don't ever change, ags.

longhorn320 · « **Reply #129 on:** August 20, 2021, 03:35:53 PM »

Quote from: Gigem on August 20, 2021, 03:33:14 PM

Well don’t get me wrong, it was a helluva run, and I would trade places with those records and near misses in a heart beat. And Brown did bag a BCS championship in 2005 thanks to VY and co and then had the opportunity to play for another, so for 95% of the programs out there you can’t ask for more than that.

But still, to blame Stoops for not bringing home a little more hardware is a bit of a fallacy, because Mack should have won at least 3 more by my count.

funny coming from an aggie

utee94 · « **Reply #130 on:** August 20, 2021, 04:01:45 PM »

Quote from: FearlessF on August 20, 2021, 03:31:01 PM

don't forget the CCG in San San antone in 1999

But it does make me wonder, how many times in major college football (which I'll limit to the current P5 conferences), has a team lost the conference championship in a rematch against a team they'd previously beaten?

For Texas it has happened thrice.

1999:
W Texas 24 Nebraska 20
L Texas 6 Nebraska 22 (B12 CCG)

2001:
WTexas 41 Colorado 7
L Texas 27 Colorado 29 (B12 CCG)

2018
W Texas 48 Oklahoma 45
L Texas 27 Oklahoma 39 (B12 CCG)

Some painful stuff right there. I wonder what other teams have experienced it, and how often?

utee94 · « **Reply #131 on:** August 20, 2021, 04:08:26 PM »

The Horns have also beaten a team a second time, in a CCG rematch. That happened with Texas-Colorado in 2005, with a 42-17 regular season win, and then that 70-3 beatdown Vince & Co. laid down on Ralphie in the CCG, was glorious. I was at that game, just spectacular.

The Horns have never done the opposite, though. We've never WON a CCG rematch, where we had previously lost the earlier regular season matchup. We've never been paired up with a team that we've previously lost to, in fact.

longhorn320 · « **Reply #132 on:** August 20, 2021, 04:14:29 PM »

Quote from: utee94 on August 20, 2021, 04:08:26 PM

The Horns have also beaten a team a second time, in a CCG rematch. That happened with Texas-Colorado in 2005, with a 42-17 regular season win, and then that 70-3 beatdown Vince & Co. laid down on Ralphie in the CCG, was glorious. I was at that game, just spectacular.

The Horns have never done the opposite, though. We've never WON a CCG rematch, where we had previously lost the earlier regular season matchup. We've never been paired up with a team that we've previously lost to, in fact.

I was at that game nice

FearlessF · « **Reply #133 on:** August 20, 2021, 04:16:58 PM »

one of the issues with the Big 12, was the number of upsets in the CCG that hurt their chances to crown a national champ or have a very highly ranked nationally respected team

don't think it's happened as many times as any other conference

utee94 · « **Reply #134 on:** August 20, 2021, 04:17:58 PM »

Quote from: longhorn320 on August 20, 2021, 04:14:29 PM

I was at that game nice

I almost felt sorry for them beefaloes. Almost.

Then I remembered 2001. And 1990.

And my gleeful hysteria returned.

I was a little angry when they pulled Vince after the first drive of the second half. We could have hit 100 that day.

Thumper · « **Reply #135 on:** August 20, 2021, 04:22:32 PM »

This talk about evaluating a pick for a coach had me thinking.
Nick Saban didn't look like so much prior to going to LSU. Sure didn't look like he would be the GOAT. It seems he really taught himself how to build a program.
Bob Stoops looked like a solid, not spectacular choice. In retrospect, even though he was a DC, he learned how to build a program from Snyder and Spurrier. Then he latched onto assistants trained by Snyder: Mangino, Venables, Mike Stoops. Coaches who were taught how to develop low rated players.
Herman had mentored under a great HC, but he never really had to develop low rated players at tOSU.
I have no idea how to evaluate Sarkisian. Mentoring under Saban has to be a plus as far as program building and he had great offenses but it is hard to tell how much was due to coaching and how much was due the the talent.

Mr Tulip · « **Reply #136 on:** August 20, 2021, 04:32:07 PM »

Quote from: Thumper on August 20, 2021, 04:22:32 PM

This talk about evaluating a pick for a coach had me thinking.
Nick Saban didn't look like so much prior to going to LSU. Sure didn't look like he would be the GOAT. It seems he really taught himself how to build a program.
Bob Stoops looked like a solid, not spectacular choice. In retrospect, even though he was a DC, he learned how to build a program from Snyder and Spurrier. Then he latched onto assistants trained by Snyder: Mangino, Venables, Mike Stoops. Coaches who were taught how to develop low rated players.
Herman had mentored under a great HC, but he never really had to develop low rated players at tOSU.
I have no idea how to evaluate Sarkisian. Mentoring under Saban has to be a plus as far as program building and he had great offenses but it is hard to tell how much was due to coaching and how much was due the the talent.

Herman tried to be a take-charge, alpha boss by reading a book on being a tough boss. He saw Urban Meyer do it, so he thought that was the way to go.

Urban Meyer acted like a gruff jerk because Urban Meyer is a gruff jerk. It works for him. His players respect it and respond to it. It isn't personal. Herman wasn't that guy. When he tried it, he was immediately unlikeable. Every company in America is crammed with middle-managers trying the same trick. They're embarrassing.

If Stoops had one advantage over Mack (and most others), it's that he knew risk. When the game was in doubt, he knew how to risk a loss in order to maximize winning. Sooner fans will point out a billion times when it didn't work out (and they're right), but he got skins on the wall because he would take those risks. Mack favored not losing. Herman, frankly, took it to the extreme and shut down whenever he took the lead.

FearlessF · « **Reply #137 on:** August 20, 2021, 04:42:56 PM »

Quote from: Thumper on August 20, 2021, 04:22:32 PM

This talk about evaluating a pick for a coach had me thinking.
Nick Saban didn't look like so much prior to going to LSU. Sure didn't look like he would be the GOAT. It seems he really taught himself how to build a program.
Bob Stoops looked like a solid, not spectacular choice. In retrospect, even though he was a DC, he learned how to build a program from Snyder and Spurrier. Then he latched onto assistants trained by Snyder: Mangino, Venables, Mike Stoops. Coaches who were taught how to develop low rated players.
Herman had mentored under a great HC, but he never really had to develop low rated players at tOSU.
I have no idea how to evaluate Sarkisian. Mentoring under Saban has to be a plus as far as program building and he had great offenses but it is hard to tell how much was due to coaching and how much was due the the talent.

Saban figured out that going to a place that was easy to get great recruits

Stoops came from a coach's family and came up through the system under many great coaches and then went to a place that was easy to recruit great players

Hermann had low rated players in Austin??? whaaaaat?

utee94 · « **Reply #138 on:** August 20, 2021, 04:48:21 PM »

Well he didn't have Alabama or tOSU level talent, but he sure had better than Maryland level talent.

MikeDeTiger · « **Reply #139 on:** August 20, 2021, 04:56:44 PM »

Quote from: Gigem on August 20, 2021, 02:46:52 PM

There is one thing about Mack Brown’s tenure at Texas that sorta disputes the fallacy that it was just unlucky to be in a division with OU and Bob Stoops.

Several times Texas slipped by OU, either on the field or by luck like in 2001 when Les Miles and oSu beat OU. UT went to the ccg in 2001, lost to CU in a rematch. Beat OU h2h in 2006, lost to a very mediocre A&M team in Austin. Bear OU in 08, lost to Tex Tech and leach and resulted in the infamous 3 way tie. There may be another season or two in there where Mack should have went to or won the ccg but didn’t and he lost to a much lesser opponent in doing so.

Agree and disagree.

I disagree in the sense that Texas "should" have done better at any particular one of those things. That's like saying breaks don't factor into a team's season and luck plays no part. That's obviously false. "Should" Texas have beaten Tech in 2008? Sure, in a macroscopic sense, but in the real world you're not at the top of your game 100% of the time and we know that something is likely to bite you somewhere. Alabama is on a historic run--the likes of which any other helmet team can no longer come close to comparing themselves--and they have one undefeated season to show for it (two, if you count last season, which I don't, because again....complete throwaway season where every team in the country lived in the Upside Down).

I agree in the sense that Texas had a specific problem with OU over the long term. They "should" have done better overall against the Sooners. You can't control a specific bad outcome in a given season, but overall you do control, year to year, your performance against a particular team you know stands in your way. No reason Texas should've had some of those embarrassing losses to OU, and without some of those Texas does claim more conference hardware, possibly national too.

The B12 (XII) Forum, home of the 'Front Porch, y'all' at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.

Topic: Rivalry Talk

longhorn320

Re: Rivalry Talk

utee94

Re: Rivalry Talk

utee94

Re: Rivalry Talk

longhorn320

Re: Rivalry Talk

utee94

Re: Rivalry Talk

utee94

Re: Rivalry Talk

longhorn320

Re: Rivalry Talk

FearlessF

Re: Rivalry Talk

utee94

Re: Rivalry Talk

Thumper

Re: Rivalry Talk

Mr Tulip

Re: Rivalry Talk

FearlessF

Re: Rivalry Talk

utee94

Re: Rivalry Talk

MikeDeTiger

Re: Rivalry Talk