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Topic: OU-UT Move to SEC in 2024?

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FearlessF

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Re: OU-UT Move to SEC in 2024?
« Reply #504 on: February 13, 2023, 09:07:11 PM »
from the Big Ten board.....
\
not all change is good
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Gigem

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Re: OU-UT Move to SEC in 2024?
« Reply #505 on: February 14, 2023, 07:26:55 AM »
Why the hate on the SEC for scheduling patsies ?  It’s not like your teams and conferences don’t do it either?  Yes, I did find it a bit odd that they have that W game in November, but you’ll understand once you start conference play. 

When you speak of this SEC myth you’re ignoring the facts that the conference has collectively dominated CFB for about the last 20 years. 

FearlessF

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Re: OU-UT Move to SEC in 2024?
« Reply #506 on: February 14, 2023, 08:51:36 AM »
the SEC has been a very strong conference forever

The SEC leaders do a great job of enhancing their top members to be successful

that doesn't mean they can't be criticized for some of their tactics

adding the 9th conference game isn't really a big deal and won't change things all that much

would probably enhance the conference image

but, Hayden Fry taught Wild Bill Snyder.... "Never schedule a loss"

so, schedule a creampuff whenever possible 
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

utee94

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Re: OU-UT Move to SEC in 2024?
« Reply #507 on: February 14, 2023, 01:36:06 PM »
the SEC has been a very strong conference forever

The SEC leaders do a great job of enhancing their top members to be successful

that doesn't mean they can't be criticized for some of their tactics

adding the 9th conference game isn't really a big deal and won't change things all that much

would probably enhance the conference image

but, Hayden Fry taught Wild Bill Snyder.... "Never schedule a loss"

so, schedule a creampuff whenever possible

Exactly.

Adding the 9th conference game instead of a bodybag creampuff patsy would add up to an additional 7 losses to the conference collective at the end of the season.  That's significant.

Additionally, scheduling the SEC bodybag creampuff patsy game in November, when all the other P5 conferences are playing conference games and adding guaranteed losses to their the conference overall, allowing SEC teams to move up in the rankings, is also significant.

Don't get me wrong, it's a savvy move that has worked well in helping to create the SECSECSEC mythos.

But we can still call it out for being chickenshit.

You'll see what I'm talking about, if/when the SEC adds a 9th conference game.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2023, 02:10:11 PM by utee94 »

FearlessF

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Re: OU-UT Move to SEC in 2024?
« Reply #508 on: February 14, 2023, 02:56:18 PM »
oh, I know what yer talkin bout, and so does the SEC
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

CWSooner

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Re: OU-UT Move to SEC in 2024?
« Reply #509 on: February 14, 2023, 05:52:48 PM »
the SEC has been a very strong conference forever

The SEC leaders do a great job of enhancing their top members to be successful

that doesn't mean they can't be criticized for some of their tactics

adding the 9th conference game isn't really a big deal and won't change things all that much

would probably enhance the conference image

but, Hayden Fry taught Wild Bill Snyder.... "Never schedule a loss"

so, schedule a creampuff whenever possible
Neither Hayden Fry nor Wild Bill Snyder--great coaches though they were--ever played for a national championship.
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CWSooner

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Re: OU-UT Move to SEC in 2024?
« Reply #510 on: February 14, 2023, 05:54:55 PM »
from the Big Ten board.....
\
not all change is good
Once or twice, I've responded to comments about the wonderfulness of all the changes by linking "Big Yellow Taxi."
Play Like a Champion Today

FearlessF

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Re: OU-UT Move to SEC in 2024?
« Reply #511 on: February 14, 2023, 06:01:01 PM »
Neither Hayden Fry nor Wild Bill Snyder--great coaches though they were--ever played for a national championship.
Hayden was close...


1985 - October 19: In a memorable Big Ten showdown between No. 1 Iowa and No. 2 Michigan, the Hawkeyes prevailed 12-10 on a field goal with two seconds left. No. 3 Oklahoma, playing their first home game of the year, lost 27-14 to Miami. No. 4 Arkansas also lost, falling 15-13 to Texas; both Iowa and the Longhorns scored all of their points on field goals in this weekend’s victories. No. 5 Florida moved up again with a 45-0 shutout of Southwestern Louisiana. No. 6 Penn State won 24-20 at Syracuse, and No. 7 Nebraska defeated Missouri 28-20. The top five in the next poll were No. 1 Iowa, No. 2 Florida, No. 3 Penn State, No. 4 Michigan, and No. 5 Nebraska.

horse shoes & hand grenades for Wild Bill as well...

1998 season, Kansas State posted an undefeated 11–0 regular season and earned its first number 1 ranking in the national polls, just ten years after being named the worst program in the country by Sports Illustrated. They lost to the Texas A&M Aggies in the Big 12 Championship Game, which has been called one of the greatest games played. The loss stopped them from reaching the National Championship and sent them to the Alamo Bowl, where they lost and finished the season 11–2.
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

utee94

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Re: OU-UT Move to SEC in 2024?
« Reply #512 on: February 14, 2023, 06:29:30 PM »
oh, I know what yer talkin bout, and so does the SEC
That comment wasn't directed at you, but rather our resident ag/SEC fanboi. :)

CWSooner

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Re: OU-UT Move to SEC in 2024?
« Reply #513 on: February 14, 2023, 06:34:26 PM »
Why the hate on the SEC for scheduling patsies ?  It’s not like your teams and conferences don’t do it either?  Yes, I did find it a bit odd that they have that W game in November, but you’ll understand once you start conference play.

When you speak of this SEC myth you’re ignoring the facts that the conference has collectively dominated CFB for about the last 20 years.
So, the SEC has some built-in advantages and has created some others.
Built-in:
Most of the bowl games are in the South. So, they are closer to home (hence, more SEC fans attend them) and SEC teams are acclimated to the weather.
SEC schools are closer to most of the great recruiting areas. And that advantage is increasing, as more African Americans are migrating to the South, reversing the trend that existed from about 1910 to about 1970.
Created:
Scheduling OOC patsies in November. This can effectively create a free week for banged-up players to heal. And it avoids a conference loss late in the season, which matters because the human voters who determine poll and CFP rankings are subject to recency bias.
The conference determines the bowl destinations. This allows for matchups favorable to the SEC teams.
Playing marquee games at neutral sites. This helps SEC teams if they truly are better, because they don't have to risk playing before a raucous crowd favoring the other team.
Some teams don't schedule marquee opponents. To the extent this, occurs, there's a deficit games between SEC teams and other P5 teams. Since the SEC is already presumed to be the best, SEC teams get to coast on that reputation.
Don't get me wrong by assuming that I don't think that the SEC is any good. In an average year, the best team is more likely to be an SEC team than a team from any other conference. But the SEC has amplified its superiority as well through circumstances and actions that favor its teams over teams from other conferences.
I don't know if the names Roger Penske and Mark Donohue mean anything to you. Penske's racing teams, with Donohue as lead driver, dominated much of American non-NASCAR racing from the mid-'60s to the mid-'70s, especially the Can-Am series, until Donohue was mortally injured practicing for the 1975 Austrian Grand Prix. Penske was a great organizer and personnel manager. Donohue was an excellent driver and maybe even better as a chassis engineer. So, the team was great from the start. But they also cheated better than anyone else. One example of that was dipping the bodies of Camaros (used in the Trans-Am series) in acid to reduce their weight. It was said that you could poke a hole in one of those Camaros with a pencil. There was a minimum weight requirement, so they had to replace that missing weight. But they did it with added weight in the chassis, so the center of gravity was lowered and the cars handled better.
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utee94

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Re: OU-UT Move to SEC in 2024?
« Reply #514 on: February 14, 2023, 06:36:31 PM »
"If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'."

-Barry $witzer

FearlessF

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Re: OU-UT Move to SEC in 2024?
« Reply #515 on: February 14, 2023, 06:39:30 PM »
Barry was tryin
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

CWSooner

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Re: OU-UT Move to SEC in 2024?
« Reply #516 on: February 14, 2023, 06:54:37 PM »
Hayden was close...


1985 - October 19: In a memorable Big Ten showdown between No. 1 Iowa and No. 2 Michigan, the Hawkeyes prevailed 12-10 on a field goal with two seconds left. No. 3 Oklahoma, playing their first home game of the year, lost 27-14 to Miami. No. 4 Arkansas also lost, falling 15-13 to Texas; both Iowa and the Longhorns scored all of their points on field goals in this weekend’s victories. No. 5 Florida moved up again with a 45-0 shutout of Southwestern Louisiana. No. 6 Penn State won 24-20 at Syracuse, and No. 7 Nebraska defeated Missouri 28-20. The top five in the next poll were No. 1 Iowa, No. 2 Florida, No. 3 Penn State, No. 4 Michigan, and No. 5 Nebraska.

horse shoes & hand grenades for Wild Bill as well...

1998 season, Kansas State posted an undefeated 11–0 regular season and earned its first number 1 ranking in the national polls, just ten years after being named the worst program in the country by Sports Illustrated. They lost to the Texas A&M Aggies in the Big 12 Championship Game, which has been called one of the greatest games played. The loss stopped them from reaching the National Championship and sent them to the Alamo Bowl, where they lost and finished the season 11–2.
In 1985, Iowa went on to lose to Ohio State on November 2. And then lost to UCLA in the Rose Bowl.

That 1998 K-State team played its OOC games against Indiana State (Div I-AA/FCS), Northern Illinois, and Lousiana Monroe. Maybe if they had played and beaten a better OOC opponent they would have gotten more consideration rather than going to the Alamo Bowl. In 2003, when OU lost to K-State in the Big 12 CCG, they got more consideration, partly because they had beaten Alabama on the road in September. Bama didn't turn out to be any good that year, but they had been the year before when OU beat them in Norman.
Pat Jones, the winningest oSu coach before Mike Gundy, is another guy who always says not to schedule a loss. But he never played for a national championship either.
If you're not a blue-blood, and you want to build your brand, seems like the best way to do it is the way Bobby Bowden did it at FSU. Take on the best and beat them.
Play Like a Champion Today

CWSooner

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Re: OU-UT Move to SEC in 2024?
« Reply #517 on: February 14, 2023, 06:57:05 PM »
"If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'."

-Barry $witzer

Charles Barkley
FIFY!
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