header pic

The B12 (XII) Forum, home of the 'Front Porch, y'all' at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: Big XII Realignment

 (Read 17888 times)

MikeDeTiger

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 2990
  • Liked:
Re: Big XII Realignment
« Reply #84 on: August 03, 2021, 03:25:15 PM »
So I really only see a few choices for myself.

1) Get angrier and more bitter as the days go by
2) Stop caring about the sport completely
3) Decide just to enjoy the games for what they are.  Watch what happens inside the white lines, for 60 minutes, on a lovely Saturday afternoon in the Fall, without worrying about the national implications of every little thing.  Enjoy the games as entertainment, which is all they were ever supposed to be, anyway.

I can tell you I've done a lot of choices 1 and 2 over the past couple of decades. 

But doesn't #3 sound a lot more pleasant and enjoyable?


I really wanna encourage you not to undersell #1 and #2. 

But, my dad says I was an old fart starting in the crib, so take that into account.  

MikeDeTiger

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 2990
  • Liked:
Re: Big XII Realignment
« Reply #85 on: August 03, 2021, 03:44:10 PM »
I have to say that I don't like the trend toward mega-conferences stacked with giants, with the little teams kicked to the curb.

There's no charm in them.  There are no rags-to-riches stories.  There's no Bill Snyder making K-State into a winner.  There's no Matt Campbell at Iowa State beating OU twice in four years.  There's no Pat Fitzgerald making woebegone Northwestern into a dangerous program in the B1G West.  Those programs would all be relegated to lower divisions.  There's no Dabo Swinney turning mediocre Clemson into a monster.  Clemson too would have been banished to a lesser league.


And there will be fewer brilliant seasons.  No OU's 2000 season out of the blue.  Nothing but a slog through an impossible schedule, maybe winning the conference with an 8-4 record, and staggering into the playoffs held together with first-aid tape and ace bandages.  And far fewer showdowns of undefeated teams late in the season or in the post-season.

More like the NFL, in other words.

And I do not watch the NFL.

I'm with you, but I haven't been as attached to the sport as I used to be in several years now, so that makes it a little easier to roll with.  

I've never liked the NFL-ization of the sport, although it's been inevitable for a while now.  I don't object to the idea of a super-league, per se.  Adding UT and OU will be neat, in a way, and there's no shortage of our own fanbase who've always thought LSU and Texas should be playing all the time.  (I have no idea why.  They've can never offer an explanation other than "neighbors.")  What I don't like is most of the realignment scenarios I've seen kick Alabama and Auburn away from us on an annual basis, and that I do mind.  I'm not not-interested in watching my favorite team play UT and OU.  But not at the expense of some of our oldest foes and participants in many of our best games.  

Honestly, as much glorious history as the Mississippi schools might be lacking and whatever their outlook for the future is, I don't want to lose those annual games either.  In some scenarios I've seen we wouldn't have to.  But there's a lot of options where that would happen, not to mention that UT and OU are just the first rumbling of an earthquake that's going to leave the landscape drastically altered.  I don't even want to lose Florida, and that only became a thing in the '92 expansion.  But, I was only 13 then, so that's the majority of my football awareness, and even though the schools themselves don't seem to care about the contrived rivalry, there are a ton of fans on both sides who love that game, myself included.  

I hope somebody finds a way to preserve the games people care about.  I saw some really good models for the SEC when A&M and Missouri came that preserved all rivalries, made sure the schools all played each other far more often than we see cross-division teams now, but didn't have divisions.  Obviously something that made so much sense was doomed.  I suspect we'll wind up in pods and teams like LSU and UGA will be conference-mates in name only.  We pretty much already are now anyway.  

Meh.  




utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17747
  • Liked:
Re: Big XII Realignment
« Reply #86 on: August 03, 2021, 04:30:47 PM »
I'm with you, but I haven't been as attached to the sport as I used to be in several years now, so that makes it a little easier to roll with. 

I've never liked the NFL-ization of the sport, although it's been inevitable for a while now.  I don't object to the idea of a super-league, per se.  Adding UT and OU will be neat, in a way, and there's no shortage of our own fanbase who've always thought LSU and Texas should be playing all the time.  (I have no idea why.  They've can never offer an explanation other than "neighbors.")  What I don't like is most of the realignment scenarios I've seen kick Alabama and Auburn away from us on an annual basis, and that I do mind.  I'm not not-interested in watching my favorite team play UT and OU.  But not at the expense of some of our oldest foes and participants in many of our best games. 

Honestly, as much glorious history as the Mississippi schools might be lacking and whatever their outlook for the future is, I don't want to lose those annual games either.  In some scenarios I've seen we wouldn't have to.  But there's a lot of options where that would happen, not to mention that UT and OU are just the first rumbling of an earthquake that's going to leave the landscape drastically altered.  I don't even want to lose Florida, and that only became a thing in the '92 expansion.  But, I was only 13 then, so that's the majority of my football awareness, and even though the schools themselves don't seem to care about the contrived rivalry, there are a ton of fans on both sides who love that game, myself included. 

I hope somebody finds a way to preserve the games people care about.  I saw some really good models for the SEC when A&M and Missouri came that preserved all rivalries, made sure the schools all played each other far more often than we see cross-division teams now, but didn't have divisions.  Obviously something that made so much sense was doomed.  I suspect we'll wind up in pods and teams like LSU and UGA will be conference-mates in name only.  We pretty much already are now anyway. 

Meh. 





Hey MDT!

I hear ya, but for decades before the 90s the SEC was really just a loose confederation anyway.  As I recall, it was common for your LSU Tigers only to play 5 or 6 SEC opponents in a season, even when the conference had 10 teams.

But still, I totally get it why you'd want to continue playing Alabama, Florida, Auburn, and the Miss schools.  I honestly don't see ANY schedule where you can play ALL of them every single year, and that's a genuine shame.

Thumper

  • Red Shirt
  • ***
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 480
  • Liked:
Re: Big XII Realignment
« Reply #87 on: August 03, 2021, 04:55:49 PM »
Hey, MDT!  I was hoping you would show up.  My handle used to be SoonerGaloot or CrimsonGaloot, I couldn't remember.  Anyhow, when you get to be a REALLY old fart, the angry stuff is more trouble than it is worth.  These days I'm just happy to have football games and I hope COVID doesn't mess up this season.
I liked OU being in the Big 12, I like OU going to the SEC, I would have been cool with OU going to the B1G.  Really didn't matter that much, there will be some great games.

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17747
  • Liked:
Re: Big XII Realignment
« Reply #88 on: August 03, 2021, 05:06:04 PM »


CWSooner

  • Team Captain
  • *******
  • Posts: 6055
  • Liked:
Re: Big XII Realignment
« Reply #89 on: August 03, 2021, 05:15:39 PM »
Hey, MDT!  I was hoping you would show up.  My handle used to be SoonerGaloot or CrimsonGaloot, I couldn't remember.  Anyhow, when you get to be a REALLY old fart, the angry stuff is more trouble than it is worth.  These days I'm just happy to have football games and I hope COVID doesn't mess up this season.
I liked OU being in the Big 12, I like OU going to the SEC, I would have been cool with OU going to the B1G.  Really didn't matter that much, there will be some great games.
No wonder I've liked your posts!
Why did you change your moniker?
Play Like a Champion Today

MikeDeTiger

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 2990
  • Liked:
Re: Big XII Realignment
« Reply #90 on: August 03, 2021, 05:20:43 PM »
Hey MDT!

I hear ya, but for decades before the 90s the SEC was really just a loose confederation anyway.  As I recall, it was common for your LSU Tigers only to play 5 or 6 SEC opponents in a season, even when the conference had 10 teams.

But still, I totally get it why you'd want to continue playing Alabama, Florida, Auburn, and the Miss schools.  I honestly don't see ANY schedule where you can play ALL of them every single year, and that's a genuine shame.

You are correct, and some of this falls under the header of "you can't please everybody."  There's also the age/timeframe factor, which is a subset of the above, that affects, what people care about.  

To that end, stuff like this trips me up for a couple reasons.  I don't have a lot of memories of when the conference was the loose confederation.  It's true that LSU played A&M in those days far more than what became the SEC East and there are many fans who always lamented the loss of that rivalry.  I don't really remember those days.  By the time I really got into football, the LSU/A&M game was on its last legs, we sucked really bad, and losing to A&M every year didn't mean much more to me than losing to everybody else every year.  Also in the loose affiliation, what I do remember from earlier childhood was preserved anyway, because the half dozen teams we did play were consistently teams that wound up in the SEC West with us.  I can't speak for other schools, but in LSU's case, the schools we avoided back then were teams that wound up in the east.  There's a ~20 year period somewhere that LSU and Tennessee didn't ever play, while still claiming to be in a conference together.  But we most always had the Alabama and Mississippi schools.  And A&M for a long time, of course. 

Hey CG, good to see you.  I'm trying to remember, are you the guy I used to bother when I first set up Linux on my PC several years ago?  All you Sooners look alike to me.  

CWSooner

  • Team Captain
  • *******
  • Posts: 6055
  • Liked:
Re: Big XII Realignment
« Reply #91 on: August 03, 2021, 05:44:45 PM »
I'm with you, but I haven't been as attached to the sport as I used to be in several years now, so that makes it a little easier to roll with. 

I've never liked the NFL-ization of the sport, although it's been inevitable for a while now.  I don't object to the idea of a super-league, per se.  Adding UT and OU will be neat, in a way, and there's no shortage of our own fanbase who've always thought LSU and Texas should be playing all the time.  (I have no idea why.  They've can never offer an explanation other than "neighbors.")  What I don't like is most of the realignment scenarios I've seen kick Alabama and Auburn away from us on an annual basis, and that I do mind.  I'm not not-interested in watching my favorite team play UT and OU.  But not at the expense of some of our oldest foes and participants in many of our best games. 

Honestly, as much glorious history as the Mississippi schools might be lacking and whatever their outlook for the future is, I don't want to lose those annual games either.  In some scenarios I've seen we wouldn't have to.  But there's a lot of options where that would happen, not to mention that UT and OU are just the first rumbling of an earthquake that's going to leave the landscape drastically altered.  I don't even want to lose Florida, and that only became a thing in the '92 expansion.  But, I was only 13 then, so that's the majority of my football awareness, and even though the schools themselves don't seem to care about the contrived rivalry, there are a ton of fans on both sides who love that game, myself included. 

I hope somebody finds a way to preserve the games people care about.  I saw some really good models for the SEC when A&M and Missouri came that preserved all rivalries, made sure the schools all played each other far more often than we see cross-division teams now, but didn't have divisions.  Obviously something that made so much sense was doomed.  I suspect we'll wind up in pods and teams like LSU and UGA will be conference-mates in name only.  We pretty much already are now anyway. 

Meh.
MDT:
I wasn't paying attention when the Big 12 was forming, other than to know that OU was really bad at the time.  But when I got out of the Army in 1999 and realized that OU and Nebraska were not playing an annual game anymore, I was downhearted.
Back on the old CFN board, I had many "discussions" with Utee about whether OU should have insisted on maintaining that annual rivalry, and on why it might not have done so, how other programs in the conference might have responded, whether there should have been designated rivalries for all the other teams, etc.  I think that it was one of many factors that caused Nebraska to look for a new home.
All that said, I hope that the SEC teams will not insist on maintaining every single annual rivalry (it seems like Bama has about 13 of them) to the point where the scheduling is all buggered up.  A 9-game schedule with 3 against your podmates, then two each from each of the other three pods would be cleanest and provide the most "conference" feel with home-and-homes against every team in the other pods over the course of four years.  But it won't maintain annual traditional rivalries.
Alas, we don't get to eat our cake and have it too.
Play Like a Champion Today

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17747
  • Liked:
Re: Big XII Realignment
« Reply #92 on: August 03, 2021, 05:55:37 PM »
MDT:
I wasn't paying attention when the Big 12 was forming, other than to know that OU was really bad at the time.  But when I got out of the Army in 1999 and realized that OU and Nebraska were not playing an annual game anymore, I was downhearted.
Back on the old CFN board, I had many "discussions" with Utee about whether OU should have insisted on maintaining that annual rivalry, and on why it might not have done so, how other programs in the conference might have responded, whether there should have been designated rivalries for all the other teams, etc.  I think that it was one of many factors that caused Nebraska to look for a new home.
All that said, I hope that the SEC teams will not insist on maintaining every single annual rivalry (it seems like Bama has about 13 of them) to the point where the scheduling is all buggered up.  A 9-game schedule with 3 against your podmates, then two each from each of the other three pods would be cleanest and provide the most "conference" feel with home-and-homes against every team in the other pods over the course of four years.  But it won't maintain annual traditional rivalries.
Alas, we don't get to eat our cake and have it too.

Hey, for what it's worth on those particular "discussions" I actually always believed that the B12 should have done everything it could to preserve that as an annual rivalry.  If it meant setting up some sort of weird, faux X-div perma-rivals for everyone else, so be it.  At the time, it was suggested that Colorado would have been a logical X-div perma-rival for Texas, and I would have been fine with that, if it meant saving NU-OU as an annual game.

One of you Sooners, either you or Cousin Fred or maybe someone we've lost to time, seemed to suggest that OU was partly to blame for that, by not really wanting to play that juggernaut mid 90s Husker team every year, and seeing the divisions as a way out of that.  I have no idea whether or not there was ever any truth to that.  But I did always like the NU-OU game, watched it whenever I could (back in those days TV wasn't as easily guaranteed), and was sorry to see it go, regardless of how or why it happened.

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 37681
  • Liked:
Re: Big XII Realignment
« Reply #93 on: August 03, 2021, 06:27:48 PM »
DeTiger sighting

still got that SEC speed or, too old?
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17747
  • Liked:
Re: Big XII Realignment
« Reply #94 on: August 03, 2021, 06:46:21 PM »
C-Dubb and I now have SEC speed too, don't ya know?


Thumper

  • Red Shirt
  • ***
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 480
  • Liked:
Re: Big XII Realignment
« Reply #95 on: August 03, 2021, 06:47:51 PM »
MDT & CW, when I signed back in I couldn't remember what my old handle was.  I knew it was something Galoot.  I don't do much woodworking anymore since we downsized and was into dual sport motorcycles (a single cylinder is a "thumper") when I set up a new account.
MDT, are you still using Linux?  I am, sorta.  I use chromebooks now that they can run Linux and android apps.  Now that I'm retired I don't have to run any Windows centric software.  My wife is still clinging to Win10 but is ready for a chromebook or chromebox for her next one.
Utee, it was my understanding that OU didn't want to continue the NU rivalry as it would make their schedule the hardest in the conference every year and they really couldn't handle it back then.

Gigem

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2150
  • Liked:
Re: Big XII Realignment
« Reply #96 on: August 03, 2021, 08:29:09 PM »
Lots of people don’t realize or know that A&M and LSU have had a rivalry that goes way back before our SEC days. In fact it seems like it’s one of the few where it’s not heavily slanted against us. LSU still leads but by like 10 games despite the fact that a ridiculous amount of games were played in BR. Apparently we played them in BR like 10 straight years. I have no idea why. 

Many Aggies were upset that we lost the annual game in the mid-90’s as a result of the SEC expanding. There was also the matter that our AD claims they owed us money from those cancelled games. We were kicking their butt at the time and most people felt they wanted to end the series based on that. 

We haven’t won a lot during our sec days but there were some great games with some controversial endings. 2 out of the last 3 and were in business. Looking forward to making it 3 out of 4. 

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17747
  • Liked:
Re: Big XII Realignment
« Reply #97 on: August 03, 2021, 09:56:40 PM »
I went to the TAMU-LSU game in College Station in 1989.  I was dating an aggie girl and she invited me up for the weekend.  Ags won and we had a very good time that night.  The night before, too...

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.