header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: The Ukraine Topic

 (Read 76857 times)

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17704
  • Liked:
Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1932 on: April 14, 2022, 04:54:34 PM »
Yeah, so this is completely backwards.

Russia did not get into armed conflict with Georgia or Ukraine until when? Until AFTER they were both invited into NATO by Bush II and intended on joining NATO. Not before.
...

NATO expansion is not the answer. It will only escalate tensions, not de-escalate them.

You've been spewing this line of Kremlin bullshit for months now.  You've been wrong every time.  You swore up and down that dickface putin wouldn't invade, and here we are.  You spent literlly HUNDREDS of pages telling me and others we were "stupid about this subject" because we stated our thoughts that the invasion was imminent.  We were right. 

You have no idea what his motivations are, but he's been talking about it for years.  He views Ukraine not as an independent state deserving of sovereignty, but as an errant rogue child in need of being returned to Mother Russia.

He wrote an article last July, labeled by some as a manifesto, which is talked about here:

https://imrussia.org/en/opinions/3316-putin%E2%80%99s-article-as-a-manifesto-against-ukraine%E2%80%99s-sovereignty

And during an election campaign speech in 2012 he stated this:


Quote
“We will strengthen our ‘historical state,’ which we have inherited from our ancestors. A civilization-state, which can organically solve the task of integrating various ethnicities and religions. We have lived together for centuries. Together, we won the most horrible war [World War II]. And we will continue living together. And I just want to say one thing to those who want or try to separate us—don’t hold your breath.”

The error you keep on making, is that you think that such a desire to invade and subjugate Ukraine and other former Russian vassal states, can only stem from some Soviet era ideology.  You're right about one thing-- dickface putin is not a Soviet communist idealogue.  Rather, his desires for Russian reunification go back much MUCH further, to the Russian empire of old.  He's said it many times. I don't know how he can state it any more plainly for you to understand.

NATO has nothing to do with it, NATO is a red herring, NATO is a false flag and a trumped up causus belli to do exactly what he dreams of-- reunifying as much of Imperial Russia as possible, before he dies.

Let's see... were Finland and Sweden ever invaded by Russia and subjugated into the Russian Empire?

Oh yeah, they sure were.

They're 100% right to be searching for extra security against dickface putin and his dreams of imperial Russian reunification through subjugation.  That's exactly what I'd be doing if I were them.  Because they know Russia a hell of a lot better than you or I do.

« Last Edit: April 14, 2022, 05:03:23 PM by utee94 »


Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71595
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1934 on: April 14, 2022, 05:16:38 PM »
Russians refer to their ships as "he".

I don't see some NATO thing as at all relevant.  And I'd note they still haven't taken Kyiv, who I used to spell Kiev.

Putin has messed up, he has no winning scenario left here.

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17704
  • Liked:
Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1935 on: April 14, 2022, 05:22:52 PM »
Russians refer to their ships as "he".

I don't see some NATO thing as at all relevant.  And I'd note they still haven't taken Kyiv, who I used to spell Kiev.

Putin has messed up, he has no winning scenario left here.
Agreed.

And I also agree with @GopherRock 's statement that the geopolitical scene is quite different than it was two months ago, and I don't think NATO membership is going to be all that important as a defense against Russia, going forward.  I think over time, Sweden and Finland will also come to that conclusion.  The back of the Russian Bear is broken.  Sure, they have the threat of nuclear weapons, but you don't use nukes on countries you're trying to conquer.

We're watching the last gasps of a dying empire.  For the USA and most of the West, applying what pressure we can non-militarily, and waiting it out, is the most prudent course of action.


utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17704
  • Liked:
Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1937 on: April 14, 2022, 05:31:19 PM »


utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17704
  • Liked:
Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1938 on: April 14, 2022, 06:15:34 PM »


utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17704
  • Liked:
Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1939 on: April 14, 2022, 06:20:59 PM »


utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17704
  • Liked:
Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1940 on: April 14, 2022, 06:23:05 PM »
Pro-Ukrainian pranksters at the Russian Embassy in DC, projecting a Ukrainian flag onto the front of the embassy.  The Russians brought out a white spotlight to try to overpower and obscure the yellow and blue, and then the game of cat and mouse was ON.


https://twitter.com/benjaminwittes/status/1514422654152982529

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71595
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1941 on: April 14, 2022, 06:26:06 PM »
Does it mean anything real to recall one's Ambassador for consultations?  probably not.

Mdot21

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 14374
  • Liked:
Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1942 on: April 14, 2022, 11:11:52 PM »
Russians refer to their ships as "he".

I don't see some NATO thing as at all relevant.  And I'd note they still haven't taken Kyiv, who I used to spell Kiev.

Putin has messed up, he has no winning scenario left here.
I think you are right. Even if Ukraine is officially no longer going to join NATO- he’s got NATO countries like Germany re-arming to the teeth and long neutral countries like Sweden and Finland seriously considering joining NATO for the first time ever really. 

Then not to mention he’s got all of Western Europe on course to pivot away from his country’s only main export- and moving towards US LNG or solar or nuclear. It won’t happen overnight, but in the next 10 years or so- the Western European countries dependent on Russian oil and gas will diversify their energy sources and increasingly move away from Russia. 

He absolutely f***d Russia over by invading Ukraine. And the longer it goes on the weaker Russia will get and the more it will be bled. 

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71595
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1943 on: April 15, 2022, 08:16:21 AM »

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17704
  • Liked:
Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1944 on: April 15, 2022, 09:07:13 AM »
Why did Putin invade Ukraine now? | The Hill

Interesting speculation. 
It is interesting, and makes some good points.

One thing he doesn't mention, but I think must be assumed, is that dickface putin really did expect a welcoming parade on the march to Kyiv.  Which just doesn't make any sense, given the bitter fighting that's been ongoing for years in Donbas.  Those regions are far more pro-Russian than anything to the west, and even many of THEM are fighting to keep themselves away from the tyranny and oppression of Russian rule.

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71595
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1945 on: April 15, 2022, 09:13:21 AM »
I posted this before about Russian tanks, and they relate to the Moskva as well I think.  Soviet arms tend to be heavily loaded with ordnance at the expense of survivability.  Their tanks use autoloaders, which cut number of men inside by one, and they are cramped by western standards.  The good part is they can have a smaller profile, and reload quickly, the bad is ammunition is stored in the autoloader in an area less well protected than what we have in the M1A2.

The Moskva was loaded with missiles, on deck, you can see the launchers readily.  US ships use vertical launch silos for cruise and other missiles and they are somewhat better protected and isolated.  Any mishap on the Moskva would be more prone in turning into a chain reaction where many warheads are in danger.  Once that starts, survivability is in doubt.  But they carry a lot of missiles.  If they were hit by one cruise missile, they might have ejected the rest of their load and contained the damage, if they had time.  They seem to have abandoned ship rather quickly, probably because it was already engulfed and bad things happened.

That is a significant loss for their navy, not so much in capability but a lot in imagery.  And it means their ships will have to stand further offshore I think if this was a Neptun strike.  This might have saved Odessa from attack.

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.