header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: The Ukraine Topic

 (Read 76853 times)

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17702
  • Liked:
Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1890 on: April 12, 2022, 01:15:59 PM »
Getting hit with a nerve agent is a bad way to go, it sends you into convulsions.

It is interesting how these have been "banned" internationally from use while normal explosives are not.
Some kinds of normal explosives are "banned"-- at least, in use against civilians-- thus all the talk about "cluster munitions" and "vacuum bombs."

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71592
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1891 on: April 12, 2022, 01:57:40 PM »
I'd consider those other than normal explosives.  A nuclear explosion is also "other than normal", to me.  The depleted uranium shells are pretty widely used also.

The term "rules of war" are a bit mystifying at times, or a least an oxymoron of a sort.

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17702
  • Liked:
Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1892 on: April 12, 2022, 02:09:07 PM »
I'd consider those other than normal explosives.  A nuclear explosion is also "other than normal", to me.  The depleted uranium shells are pretty widely used also.

The term "rules of war" are a bit mystifying at times, or a least an oxymoron of a sort.
You can subdivide it all you like.  A bullet or solid shell is quite different than an exploding shell. And both of those are quite different than a chemical weapon, which is quite different than a biological weapon. 

A tactical field-based nuclear weapon is different than all of the above but it's still nothing like an ICBM in its range, scope, and capability.



Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71592
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1893 on: April 12, 2022, 03:06:14 PM »
The term "sharpnell" is named after a British officer.

Like everyone else, I hope the chem weapons usage there is false.  

Is Vladimir Putin sunk? | The Hill

The French diplomat Segur commented that those on Napoleon’s staff would rather be wrong with Napoleon than right against him. It explains why President Kennedy, during the Bay of Pigs fiasco, made a decision that in hindsight was not only bad but predictably bad. And it explains why Putin, surrounded by generals and sycophantic staff members who fear his wrath, miscalculated so badly by deciding to invade Ukraine. 
General Sergei Shoigu, on whom Putin relies for advice, is not a professional soldier, meaning his precarious political position makes him more likely to ingratiate himself by presenting one-sided information. Recent U.S. intelligence also reveals that Putin’s military advisers “misinformed” him and that there are serious tensions. In all these military examples, advisers were (or are) disincentivized to provide the unvarnished, unalloyed truth that all good leaders demand in times of crisis.
A month into the invasion, it’s now clear that Putin, who appeared hell-bent on invading Ukraine, did not receive good intelligence about Ukrainian defenses and Ukrainian morale. Andrea Kendall-Taylor, who was U.S. deputy national intelligence officer for Russia and Eurasia from 2015-2018, said Russian security services have overlapping responsibilities and compete for favor from the Kremlin. And how does one security service within Russia earn the Kremlin’s favor? By telling Putin what he wants to hear. So Putin is discovering to his increasing dismay that Ukraine’s military was not a paper tiger and that the people themselves were not, as some advisers suggested, Russian sympathizers. 
This last point echoes the problem the British 



Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71592
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1894 on: April 12, 2022, 03:07:27 PM »
Sunk cost traps.

If Ukraine can manage to hold on near Mariupol, I fear this is going to drag on for months if not years.

Drew4UTk

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 10172
  • Liked:
Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1895 on: April 12, 2022, 04:43:51 PM »
Well they're all bad, that's for sure.

Further, I have a hard time distinguishing between a pile of dead Ukrainian civilians, and a pile of dead Ukrainian soldiers, in the context of an unprovoked and unacceptable invasion like this.  Neither grouping would be suffering if it weren't for the murderous lunacy of an evil piece of shit.


Yeah dead is dead... but..

Chemical weapons can lay up- maintain their integrity... such as a protected depression or a tunnel.  They can sit there for years. 

Anthrax rides the line between bio and chemical when weaponized.. it was used in Rhodesian war to spike the ground, literally, so crops couldn't be grown and consumed.  All these years later they still find some when they till.  Part of the weaponozation was to encapsulate it, similar to grass seed, where it "lives" until it gets wet... and that's also its chemical hybridization... that capsule. 

The ruskies used a chemical weapon not long ago- when the checks took hostages in a movie theater.  They dispensed the agent as a flash bang would be used- with a stick of an assault team seemingly ready to make entry... the #2 guy leans out of the stick and once the breachers have busted the entry open tosses the flash bang in... except it wasnt a flash bang and the stick wasnt making entry.. they were just feigning such.

The real assault team waited out back of the theater and shot whoever they thought were tangos as they exited.  They got some civilians, too, but hey- it's russia- some collateral damage is expected. 

The interesting part is nobody knows what that agent was.  It wasn't tear, CS, or anything related that they could tell.  However, after a few minutes people wanted out of that place really badly.  Those that collapsed didn't make it. 

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25268
  • Liked:
Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1896 on: April 13, 2022, 08:29:04 AM »
I have a hard time distinguishing between a pile of civilians intentionally killed with an artillery shell, missile, or machine gun and a pile of civilians killed with sarin.
The only thing I can think of as far as distinguishing, is that the use of chemical weapons is far cheaper for the aggressor, which seems to be running out of supplies and money.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25268
  • Liked:
Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1897 on: April 13, 2022, 08:32:04 AM »
You can subdivide it all you like.  A bullet or solid shell is quite different than an exploding shell. And both of those are quite different than a chemical weapon, which is quite different than a biological weapon.

A tactical field-based nuclear weapon is different than all of the above but it's still nothing like an ICBM in its range, scope, and capability.



I hate biological weapons. We've been with one for 2.5+ years now.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71592
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1898 on: April 13, 2022, 08:37:01 AM »
Chemical weapons are pretty good at "clearing urban areas of the unprotected" (civilians) and in static warfare with trenches.

As I recall, the Germans in War One used barrels of chlorine they would roll downhill into British trenches.  It was a new thing.


Drew4UTk

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 10172
  • Liked:
Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1899 on: April 13, 2022, 09:38:34 AM »
I hate biological weapons. We've been with one for 2.5+ years now.
I've got a theory on this one.  All of my own design. Y'all ought to know i like a good conspiracy.  I'm running out of those, though, as they're all coming true. 

In Wuhan there was a laboratory, recently certified to handle certain pathogens.  They were performing gain of function which is a household term now, but wasn't five years ago.  The concept is to develop a virus based on projected mutations and alongside that, develop a means to defeat it... once that's discovered the formula is locked away.  Maybe it's used? Maybe it isn't. 

The kind of research going on there, largely funded by the US, is illegal to perform in the US.  You know, sorta like the labs in Ukraine, to bring this full circle.

Here is the theory:

There is a hero or a handful of hero's in Wuhan. They, being part of the development, realized the purpose and set free a variant prior to the full development of the "virus", and when it was still at a point its lethality was in want.  Don't get me wrong, a virus with an infection rate over 40% is almost certainly engineered, and covid is north of 90% at least at first- so that part was complete or near so- but the part that kills was behind... these "heros" saw that, and strategically released it allowing people to develop natural immunity and to the point the carpet was ganked from under the entire program. 

Vaccines?  Don't me started.  :) 

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17702
  • Liked:
Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1900 on: April 13, 2022, 10:31:02 AM »
I've got a theory on this one.  All of my own design. Y'all ought to know i like a good conspiracy.  I'm running out of those, though, as they're all coming true. 

In Wuhan there was a laboratory, recently certified to handle certain pathogens.  They were performing gain of function which is a household term now, but wasn't five years ago.  The concept is to develop a virus based on projected mutations and alongside that, develop a means to defeat it... once that's discovered the formula is locked away.  Maybe it's used? Maybe it isn't. 

The kind of research going on there, largely funded by the US, is illegal to perform in the US.  You know, sorta like the labs in Ukraine, to bring this full circle.

Here is the theory:

There is a hero or a handful of hero's in Wuhan. They, being part of the development, realized the purpose and set free a variant prior to the full development of the "virus", and when it was still at a point its lethality was in want.  Don't get me wrong, a virus with an infection rate over 40% is almost certainly engineered, and covid is north of 90% at least at first- so that part was complete or near so- but the part that kills was behind... these "heros" saw that, and strategically released it allowing people to develop natural immunity and to the point the carpet was ganked from under the entire program. 

Vaccines?  Don't me started.  :)

Be careful Drew, I might have to delete this off-topic and highly controversial post... ;)

Other than that, though, I like it.  It's as good a conspiracy theory as anything else.  

Drew4UTk

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 10172
  • Liked:
Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1901 on: April 13, 2022, 10:49:01 AM »
It's really hard for me to take anything serious, @utee94 , for more than a few minutes.  We're surrounded by hilarity.  

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71592
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1902 on: April 13, 2022, 06:41:45 PM »
Here's why Russian tanks keep getting their turrets blown off in Ukraine (taskandpurpose.com)
Here's why Russian tanks keep getting their turrets blown off in Ukraine (taskandpurpose.com)

Autoloaders, in essence.

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17702
  • Liked:
Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1903 on: April 13, 2022, 07:28:38 PM »
Here's why Russian tanks keep getting their turrets blown off in Ukraine (taskandpurpose.com)
Here's why Russian tanks keep getting their turrets blown off in Ukraine (taskandpurpose.com)

Autoloaders, in essence.
Yup, American intel has noted this before in other encounters with them.  

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.