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Topic: The Ukraine Topic

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Hawkinole

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1862 on: April 08, 2022, 02:51:29 AM »
do they have the sources to develop?

what they really need to do is kick their nuclear energy programs into high gear. dump untold billions into it- get 70+% of your energy from it like France. Then you won't be "addicted" to anyones oil or gas.
You have to add electric and hydrogen powered vehicles to your proposed mix, and to eliminate most combustion engines - then you have a solution to dependence on autocratic and monarchy oil.

LNG and natural gas in the U.S. is abundant, but why it is taking so much time to develop as an export to Europe, I don't understand, other than Europe's geographic nearness and dependence on autocratic LNG and oil.  USA has a good export market to Asia of LNG. One of the gulf states exports lots of LNG too. Unfortunately Europe has been cozying up to Russia for its pipeline ng, and for its export LNG for years, and developed a dependency. 

European imports of fossil fuels have proven now to be a security risk to all of Europe. U.S. has so much LNG available for export but not the boat capacity. Defense Production Act for LNG boats?

Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1863 on: April 08, 2022, 09:55:09 AM »
You need specific LNG terminals also 

utee94

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1864 on: April 08, 2022, 10:09:17 AM »
Germany has zero import terminals for LNG.  The rest of Western Europe only have a handful. 


FearlessF

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1865 on: April 08, 2022, 10:23:42 AM »
Elon Musk can build them
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utee94

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1866 on: April 08, 2022, 10:43:08 AM »
Let them eat gas.

Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1867 on: April 08, 2022, 01:06:40 PM »
You have to add electric and hydrogen powered vehicles to your proposed mix, and to eliminate most combustion engines - then you have a solution to dependence on autocratic and monarchy oil.

LNG and natural gas in the U.S. is abundant, but why it is taking so much time to develop as an export to Europe, I don't understand, other than Europe's geographic nearness and dependence on autocratic LNG and oil.  USA has a good export market to Asia of LNG. One of the gulf states exports lots of LNG too. Unfortunately Europe has been cozying up to Russia for its pipeline ng, and for its export LNG for years, and developed a dependency.

European imports of fossil fuels have proven now to be a security risk to all of Europe. U.S. has so much LNG available for export but not the boat capacity. Defense Production Act for LNG boats?
well duh on the first part- and Germany and a lot of Western Europe- are making the push towards electric vehicles. Elon Musk just opened his first Tesla GigaFactory in Europe in Germany less than a month ago. Europe and Germany's largest auto-maker VW is gearing up to go all electric by 2035.

LNG is liquefied natural gas. It takes special infrastructure to be able to import it and actually convert it back to gas state to be able to use it. Infrastructure the Germans and most of Europe does not have. You're talking about probably countless billions to build the infrastructure- and then as utee said- even if they started building all the necessary infrastructure- it'd be about a decade out. Germany does not get LNG from Russia, they get natural gas via direct pipelines. No need for the costly infrastructure- and oh yeah not to mention infrastructure aside- it's a hell of a lot cheaper. US LNG is 40-50% more expensive than Russian natural gas. Ask someone to pay $150 for the same thing that they're paying $100 for right now. They'll probably not want to do that. And the cost is actually much greater when you take into account the billions of dollars in cost for building the import terminal infrastructure. Those import terminals cost like $1 billion a pop- or more.

I don't see how European energy policy is our problem. If the free loading Eurotrash want energy that's not from Russia- they can figure it out on their own. They can pay huge premiums for US LNG but they can pay for the damn terminals themselves and we shouldn't build any LNG transport boats until they give us deposits and contracts to buy US LNG.

Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1868 on: April 08, 2022, 01:10:07 PM »
Elon Musk can build them
dude builds electric cars, solar panels/roofs, and storage batteries. he's not a fan of fossil fuels lol.

utee94

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1869 on: April 08, 2022, 01:16:59 PM »
Well I mean, it would quite obviously be in Germany's and most of Europe's best interest to eliminate their dependence on Russian oil and gas.  Even at significantly increased costs, looking to the US to provide it, rather than Russia, is a much safer bet.

And while I agree it's not our responsibility, it is in our own best interests, because instability in the developed world in general, and Europe specifically, has direct negative externalities for the US.

I believe we should do everything we can to encourage them to go into business with us for LNG and oil.  It would be profitable business for us, and it would increase security for them.  That type of activity would of course require deposits and contractual assurances from the European states to producers and transporters on our side, but that's all quite do-able, just a matter of business.

But, if they don't choose to follow that path, we can't MAKE them engage in sound, secure energy policy.  If they want to make short-sighted and stupid decisions to rely on Russia, there's nothing we can do to stop them.


Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1870 on: April 08, 2022, 01:20:23 PM »
Well I mean, it would quite obviously be in Germany's and most of Europe's best interest to eliminate their dependence on Russian oil and gas.  Even at significantly increased costs, looking to the US to provide it, rather than Russia, is a much safer bet.

And while I agree it's not our responsibility, it is in our own best interests, because instability in the developed world in general, and Europe specifically, has direct negative externalities for the US.

I believe we should do everything we can to encourage them to go into business with us for LNG and oil.  It would be profitable business for us, and it would increase security for them.  That type of activity would of course require deposits and contractual assurances from the European states to producers and transporters on our side, but that's all quite do-able, just a matter of business.

But, if they don't choose to follow that path, we can't MAKE them engage in sound, secure energy policy.  If they want to make short-sighted and stupid decisions to rely on Russia, there's nothing we can do to stop them.
yeah pretty much agree with everything you said. 

FearlessF

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1871 on: April 08, 2022, 01:47:51 PM »
dude builds electric cars, solar panels/roofs, and storage batteries. he's not a fan of fossil fuels lol.
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MrNubbz

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1872 on: April 08, 2022, 02:09:02 PM »
dude builds electric cars, solar panels/roofs, and storage batteries. he's not a fan of fossil fuels lol.
Ya but the plants that make all of that are powered how?
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Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1873 on: April 08, 2022, 05:41:41 PM »
one of the most insane videos I think I've ever seen that no one in useless media will ever show...is from an interview in 2019 for Ukrainian news channel Apostrophe.ua- Oleksiy Arestovych- a top advisor in the cabinet of Ukrainian President Zelenskyy. 


He says back in 2019 that the price Ukraine needs to pay to join NATO is "a big war with Russia” and that after defeating Russia, "Ukraine joining NATO will be the coolest thing". He predicts there's a 99.9% probability of a major war and says it'll be in 2021-2022- and he basically predicts everything of how Russia will fight the war down to a T. It's insane. 

Idk why the f**k the US kept lying to Ukraine telling them they'd be in NATO for 14 years- knowing damn well they weren't going to let them in- in large part due to major issues in that country with corruption. Even Zelenskyy now says he's been asking and demanding of the US when Ukraine can join NATO- tell us if it's in one year, three years, five years- and he was told by the US- yeah, you guys aren't joining NATO- but we're not going to say that publicly. 

This same guy predicts the war could be over by May. Let's hope he's as good at predicting the end of wars as he is the start of them. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjxs2XfDwKc

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1874 on: April 08, 2022, 06:45:31 PM »
Ya but the plants that make all of that are powered how?
Plants are powered by the sun + water.




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Gigem

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1875 on: April 08, 2022, 09:53:21 PM »
We have an LNG export terminal right here in my county. Iirc, they spent about 12 billion to build it. It started out as an import terminal, but thanks to Super Aggie George Mitchell fracking became a real thing and it was remade to liquify the gas and export it. My friend from high school works there. 


 

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