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Topic: The Ukraine Topic

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rolltidefan

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1666 on: March 29, 2022, 10:06:46 AM »
Quote from: GopherRock on March 29, 2022, 09:44:02 AM
Goes to show you how much Putin trusts his negotiators.

As for the Ukranian position, I would imagine it's a minimum of status quo ante bellum, if not more.
that's probably accurate, but who get to define ante bellum? i'm guessing ukraine consider at least 2014 and not 2008 that starting point, but doubt putin will.

also will be interesting to see how/when the sanctions will be walked back. the us/eu needs to give ukraine at least some control over those terms to use as a negotiating asset.
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longhorn320

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1667 on: March 29, 2022, 10:40:53 AM »
sanctions will not be walked back until Ukraine is satisfied with the current situation

Until a cease fire agreement is signed sanctions will continue

This might be a head fake by Putin you cant trust him
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They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

GopherRock

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1668 on: March 29, 2022, 10:50:07 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on March 29, 2022, 10:03:45 AM
Ukraine will end up acknowledging Crimea and Donbass are now part of Russia, among other things.  That would leave "The West" in a spot of sorts.


I very much doubt that Ukraine will accept a Russian occupation of Donbas. That would be a smashing victory for Putin.

Right now, A) Ukraine is negotiating from a position of strength, B) their forces are everything the Russians aren't (fed, fueled, supplied, with high morale to boot), and C) the Kremlin cannot be trusted to carry out any action right now. Trust but verify.
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utee94

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1669 on: March 29, 2022, 11:21:10 AM »
Quote from: longhorn320 on March 29, 2022, 10:40:53 AM
sanctions will not be walked back until Ukraine is satisfied with the current situation

Until a cease fire agreement is signed sanctions will continue

This might be a head fake by Putin you cant trust him
dickface putin's regime announced it was scaling back hostilities in Kyiv, and as the reporter in Kyiv is talking about it, with the graphic on the screen stating it, you can still hear obvious shelling  occurring in the background.  It' all bullshit.

Every word from his mouth is a lie.  Every accusation, a confession.

Same as it ever was.
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Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1670 on: March 29, 2022, 11:22:30 AM »
They could have "scaled back" from say 60 artillery shells per hour to 50.

And that could be because of supply shortages.
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utee94

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1671 on: March 29, 2022, 11:24:56 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on March 29, 2022, 11:22:30 AM
They could have "scaled back" from say 60 artillery shells per hour to 50.

And that could be because of supply shortages.
Sure.  Saying "scale back" or "reduce" or "deescalate" is all just wordplay.

But the fact remains that actions speak louder than words, especially when the person talking lies about every single thing. 

The only way to believe that Russia will cease its murderous hostilities, is when they actually stop doing it. Until then, all parties must proceed based solely on what actions are being taken by dickface putin and his stooges.

Every word is a lie.
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Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1672 on: March 29, 2022, 11:31:25 AM »
It is literally a true statement (perhaps), but it's an assertion with no relevance.  

A lot of irrelevancies are literally true.
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847badgerfan

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1673 on: March 29, 2022, 12:26:56 PM »
Quote from: rolltidefan on March 29, 2022, 10:06:46 AM
that's probably accurate, but who get to define ante bellum? 
The Lady.
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U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

utee94

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1674 on: March 29, 2022, 12:29:51 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on March 29, 2022, 11:31:25 AM
It is literally a true statement (perhaps), but it's an assertion with no relevance. 

A lot of irrelevancies are literally true.
It is unprovable at this point whether or not it is literally true.

So it's really nothing, at all.
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utee94

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1675 on: March 29, 2022, 01:03:11 PM »
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Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1676 on: March 29, 2022, 01:05:10 PM »
Quote from: utee94 on March 29, 2022, 12:29:51 PM
It is unprovable at this point whether or not it is literally true.

So it's really nothing, at all.

As I said, it PERHAPS is literally true, and it could be true because of supply issues, not a policy change.

Sometimes one can read some tea leaves on such statements.
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Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1677 on: March 29, 2022, 01:29:45 PM »
Top commander in Europe: US not 'currently training' Ukrainian forces in Poland | TheHill
Top commander in Europe: US not 'currently training' Ukrainian forces in Poland | TheHill

At some point, the explanations get as bad as the original statement.
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longhorn320

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1678 on: March 29, 2022, 01:43:53 PM »
By the looks of it Ukraine could probably train US troops
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utee94

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1679 on: March 29, 2022, 03:20:43 PM »
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