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Topic: The Ukraine Topic

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Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1386 on: March 20, 2022, 09:52:24 PM »
I doubt we've heard any full Russian proposal.  But I can't imagine how they would leave a rump Ukraine state with Zelensky in charge.  They want the "Nazis" gone.

https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1505570676245213187?s=20&t=eX7NrHqqrI0gCkW9sMBnXw

Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1387 on: March 21, 2022, 07:04:55 AM »
I think the Russians want a lot more than just the end of the Azov boys.  They want Zelensky gone, I think, pretty certainly, and a thug of their own put in charge, plus loss of Donbass and Crimea recognized, and likely more.  They want Ukraine neutralized and quiescent so they can extract resources at leisure, Belarus in short.  They seem willing to bomb Ukraine back to the stone age to do it.


Temp430

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1388 on: March 21, 2022, 08:59:28 AM »
I think the Russians want a lot more than just the end of the Azov boys.  They want Zelensky gone, I think, pretty certainly, and a thug of their own put in charge, plus loss of Donbass and Crimea recognized, and likely more.  They want Ukraine neutralized and quiescent so they can extract resources at leisure, Belarus in short.  They seem willing to bomb Ukraine back to the stone age to do it.


No doubt Putin wants all of Ukraine and her natural resources.  Ukraine's population seems optional.
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Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1389 on: March 21, 2022, 09:07:49 AM »
If the Russians agree to any residual Ukraine with Zelensky in charge I'll be quite surprised.  I think they want their guy in charge, along with control over future "elections".

If they could simply have Their Guy in charge and be assured that would remain for decades as the case, they would have everything they wanted.  It would be Belarus by another name.  And yeah, they could rename some streets along the way.

847badgerfan

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1390 on: March 21, 2022, 09:29:53 AM »
I wonder if Moldova is next.
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utee94

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1391 on: March 21, 2022, 09:38:13 AM »
The one assumption you can make, is that everything that comes out of dickface putin, is a lie.  Every accusation, a confession.

Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1392 on: March 21, 2022, 10:00:23 AM »
I think the Russians want a lot more than just the end of the Azov boys.  They want Zelensky gone, I think, pretty certainly, and a thug of their own put in charge, plus loss of Donbass and Crimea recognized, and likely more.  They want Ukraine neutralized and quiescent so they can extract resources at leisure, Belarus in short.  They seem willing to bomb Ukraine back to the stone age to do it.
NATO member Turkey is a very integral part of these negotiations, and Turkey is saying Putin has accepted the fact that Zelensky is the leader of Ukraine. Are they bullsh*tting Turkey? We'll see. I certainly hope not.  

I think any peace solution should have multiple independent election verification organizations involved in free, fair, and open elections and the course of action should be to let the people of Crimea and Donbas vote on what they want to do. You do realize that during the war in Donbas for the last 3-4 years, over 84% of the civilians killed were killed by the armed forces of Ukraine - not the separatists. This is per the UN, as Ukraine has been shelling the hell out of the Donbas for years. 

Does Ukraine even have natural resources? Ukraine is #26 in the world in proven natural gas reserves and #51 in the world in proven oil reserves. Seems to me like a stretch to start a major war that resulted in massive Russian losses, Russia's economy being sanctioned to the point of collapse, Russia becoming a pariah state, and something that could spill over into WWIII and nuclear holocaust for control of such little proven reserves. They are't sitting on the kind of reserves the Venezuelans, Saudis or Iranians have.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_natural_gas_proven_reserves
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_proven_oil_reserves

Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1393 on: March 21, 2022, 10:04:25 AM »
I wonder if Moldova is next.
God I hope not. I didn't think Putin would invade, but he did. I understand their position of not wanting Ukraine in NATO. They went to the absolute extreme to make sure that doesn't happen, and there is no justification for that.

I just don't see what invading Moldova gets him. All it does is hurt his current effort in Ukraine- where his army has been stretched thin and taken massive losses- and all it does is push the possibility of WWIII closer. The guy doesn't want to fight the US/NATO. He knows they'll annihilate his army. Hence the nuclear threat. If he invades Moldova, I don't think US/NATO will sit back. He's basically got a free pass right now. Let's hope he's not crazy enough to invade another country.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1394 on: March 21, 2022, 10:11:57 AM »
Unless Russia completely "wins" this war and takes over Ukraine, I don't see any way of going after Moldova. Their demands for a cease-fire include Ukrainian neutrality and demilitarization, and I assume that the Ukrainian demands would require Russian troops withdrawing. 

Moldova, being landlocked between Romania and Ukraine, would be hard to invade if your troops are on the other side of the Ukrainian border...

GopherRock

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1395 on: March 21, 2022, 10:27:19 AM »
Remember to view everything the Turkish government says through the lens that Erdogan himself is a tinhorn dictator that fancies himself as the de facto leader of the Muslim world. He's no innocent schoolkid.

Moldova won't be next because the Rooskies have neither the equipment, manpower, logistics, or willpower to put Ukraine down, much less Moldova. 

Given the guerilla-type nature of most of the Ukrainian resistance, any Kremlin-installed stooge government won't last a day.

Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1396 on: March 21, 2022, 10:34:02 AM »
Hitler wanted Ukraine for its natural resources, they have a lot of proven metal reserves.

If Putin leaves Zelensky in power with "free" elections, I'll be quite surprised.  I don't know if they told Turkey this was OK with them or not, but it would surprise me quite a bit.

Mining – UkraineInvest

Ukraine has extremely rich and complementary mineral resources in high concentrations and close proximity to each other. The country has abundant reserves of coal, iron ore, natural gas, manganese, salt, oil, graphite, sulfur, kaolin, titanium, nickel, magnesium, timber, and mercury.






847badgerfan

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1397 on: March 21, 2022, 10:34:43 AM »
Unless Russia completely "wins" this war and takes over Ukraine, I don't see any way of going after Moldova. Their demands for a cease-fire include Ukrainian neutrality and demilitarization, and I assume that the Ukrainian demands would require Russian troops withdrawing.

Moldova, being landlocked between Romania and Ukraine, would be hard to invade if your troops are on the other side of the Ukrainian border...

Moldova has an agreement with Ukraine that makes them not landlocked. This could be a problem moving forward.
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Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1398 on: March 21, 2022, 10:35:14 AM »
Remember to view everything the Turkish government says through the lens that Erdogan himself is a tinhorn dictator that fancies himself as the de facto leader of the Muslim world. He's no innocent schoolkid.
a) no one said he's innocent. there is no such thing as innocent countries or innocent leaders in the world. 

b) Turkey has closed the Turkish straits to Russian battleships. Turkey is a NATO member. As such, they have an interest in this thing not exploding into WWIII, bc as a NATO member, that would mean if it did- they'd have to fight war with Russia.

c) Turkey has been playing a major role in the negotiations. 

847badgerfan

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1399 on: March 21, 2022, 10:35:39 AM »
Hitler wanted Ukraine for its natural resources, they have a lot of proven metal reserves.

If Putin leaves Zelensky in power with "free" elections, I'll be quite surprised.  I don't know if they told Turkey this was OK with them or not, but it would surprise me quite a bit.

Mining – UkraineInvest

Ukraine has extremely rich and complementary mineral resources in high concentrations and close proximity to each other. The country has abundant reserves of coal, iron ore, natural gas, manganese, salt, oil, graphite, sulfur, kaolin, titanium, nickel, magnesium, timber, and mercury.






They grow a lot of food too. Very good agricultural soils.
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