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Topic: The Ukraine Topic

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FearlessF

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1316 on: March 19, 2022, 10:55:55 AM »
in most folks view

"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1317 on: March 19, 2022, 10:58:14 AM »
The story about armies marching into Moscow of late ended badly.  The Mongols made it, but Moscow wasn't much of a town back then.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1318 on: March 19, 2022, 11:00:31 AM »
As long as it does not get personal, I enjoy the back and forth here.
We went into Kuwait in, I forget, 1990 or 91, because Kuwait's sovereignty was breached. Ukraine's sovereignty was breached and we only provide weapons, and do not directly intervene.
We are the world's police. But you have to have oil.
Maybe in 50-years if you are invaded, we will be your police if you have solar and wind power, but for now, you have to have oil.
If Russia invaded Kuwait, we wouldn't have been in a shooting war to liberate them.

If Iraq invaded Ukraine, we probably would.

Because Russia has nukes and Iraq doesn't.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1319 on: March 19, 2022, 11:33:22 AM »
Every post like that only strengthens my idea that Putin can do whatever he wants.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

FearlessF

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1320 on: March 19, 2022, 11:35:08 AM »
I would guess most people feel Putin can do whatever he wants, within reason
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1321 on: March 19, 2022, 11:38:28 AM »
Not sure what oil has to do with it

I dont think the US got a drop of oil from the Iraq wars

nor was it the reason we went in
You're probably confused why there always seems to be problems in the middle east, huh?

Maybe it's because of all the sand.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

longhorn320

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1322 on: March 19, 2022, 11:48:07 AM »
You're probably confused why there always seems to be problems in the middle east, huh?

Maybe it's because of all the sand.
The only thing oil had to do with the Iraq war was the fact that a defenseless Kuwait was invaded by Iraq

Kuwait has large oil reserves and the US wanted to restore Kuwait's freedom and stabilize the oil crises

The US did not retain ownership in the oil nor benefit from receiving any of it

The United Nations supported the US in this action
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1323 on: March 19, 2022, 12:16:35 PM »
Every post like that only strengthens my idea that Putin can do whatever he wants.
Not whatever he wants, but that were going to fight them with economic and diplomatic means, rather than a shooting war.

longhorn320

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1324 on: March 19, 2022, 12:18:59 PM »
Every post like that only strengthens my idea that Putin can do whatever he wants.
We are about to find out if thats true
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1325 on: March 19, 2022, 01:39:49 PM »
Not to speak on his behalf, but based on his history of posting, I think he means, we should not be the world's police. 

And in that respect, I feel like his views probably align with your own.

Mine too, for that matter.
this is exactly my view. 

The US is one of the countries in the world. It is not the world. A lot of politicians in DC and shockingly a lot of people in this country tend to act or want to believe the latter.

US has 900 bases all over the world. The DoD budget never decreases. It's always increasing. I believe it's $778 billion for FY 2022. And they are increasing it. It's more than the next 11 countries combined or something stupid like that. Before we know it, it'll be $1 trillion pretty soon.

Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1326 on: March 19, 2022, 01:43:17 PM »
Every post like that only strengthens my idea that Putin can do whatever he wants.
^ terrified of COVID....fearless when it comes to potential nuclear war....:043:

Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1327 on: March 19, 2022, 01:46:39 PM »
Well he stated it as fact.

And Russia isn't at war with Ukraine, they invaded a foreign country, unprovoked.

Ukraine's only sin was not having enough oil for us to give a shit.
Ummmm...

a) it is a war.

b) NO US President would risk nukes going off in Manhattan or LA for Ukraine. Not one. Not even the current idiot in office. Even if the chance is 1% Putin would do that- or even less than 1% - not a risk any President can take. ABM's are for the most part worthless crap that have zero shot at stopping an ICBM loaded with nuclear warheads.

Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1328 on: March 19, 2022, 02:02:24 PM »
Not sure what oil has to do with it

I dont think the US got a drop of oil from the Iraq wars

nor was it the reason we went in
I do know this, Saddam started denominating his oil in euros exclusively instead of the US dollar in about 2001-2002. In 2003, the US invaded Iraq illegally on a bunch of trumped up bullsh*t charges that Iraq had WMD's and links to Al-Qaeda. Both of which were preposterous claims- even at the time. As soon as Saddam was toppled and the Ba'ath party was disbanded and US had control over most of the oil fields, Iraqi oil went right back to being denominated in US dollars.

Not sure it's ever about taking a drop of oil with these wars. US has plenty of oil on our own shores and so does our neighbor to the north Canada. It's about securing the flow of said oil and to another extent having it traded exclusively in US dollars.

US intelligence services helped Saddam's Ba'ath Party seize power in Iraq in 1963. Saddam was for all intents and purposes an American client. US backed him in the 70s and 80s. During the Iran-Iraq war, US shipped Iraq arms, helped train it's soldiers, gave them aid (money), intelligence, and even chemical & bio-weapon precursors. And as many as 90 US military advisors supported Iraqi forces and helped pick targets for Iraqi air and missile attacks on Iran.

He wasn't an enemy of the US until he started going against the wishes of Washington DC - ie - invading and annexing Kuwait.

Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1329 on: March 19, 2022, 02:07:41 PM »
The only thing oil had to do with the Iraq war was the fact that a defenseless Kuwait was invaded by Iraq

Kuwait has large oil reserves and the US wanted to restore Kuwait's freedom and stabilize the oil crises

The US did not retain ownership in the oil nor benefit from receiving any of it

The United Nations supported the US in this action
Iraq owed Kuwait a shitload of money that they borrowed from Kuwait to fight the Iran-Iraq war. They were having trouble paying it back.

And Kuwait was producing way over their OPEC quota - almost flooding the market which helped keep the price of oil low- which massively cut into the profits of Iraq's oil trade.

If Iraq had taken Kuwait and started drastically cutting back oil production in both countries- it would have caused oil prices to shoot way up and Iraq would be making a shitload of $$$$.

That's why Saddam invaded Kuwait.

 

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