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Topic: The Ukraine Topic

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longhorn320

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1190 on: March 16, 2022, 11:09:12 AM »
I'm not sure where I'd break a point of calling something fought with "truly modern weapons".  A main shift here is that the defense has modern defensive weapons and has held off superior armored and air components pretty well.  Tactics tend to oscillate between offense and defense (sound familiar?).

I'm sure folks will be reevaluating their armored components after this.  Iraq did not have much anti-tank capability in 1990 and the battles were "in the open".  Javelins have to be a fearsome weapon for any tanker fighting in any built up or wooded terrain.
a huge factor is also the Russians are not being led very well, they are inexperienced and moral appears to be low

while the Ukrainians appear to be totally committed with their heart to defend their homeland

They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1191 on: March 16, 2022, 11:19:41 AM »
That is a huge factor, but I think without these precision munitions, it wouldn't matter nearly as much.  I'm trying to think of the last major conflict where both sides were highly motivated with good morale.  Often only one side is really motivated, and it matters.

Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1192 on: March 16, 2022, 11:59:36 AM »
Whether Trump was the worst president ever or not, it doesn't matter.  He was a garbage human being dipshit game show host.  Great resume.
But just because he holds that opinion doesn't mean he's far-left, as you explained.

I don't really care if Trump was a garbage human- his personal life is completely uninteresting to me. Him ripping off people in business- don't really care nor is it relevant to this discussion. However, as a President- it's just factually wrong to claim the guy was the worst President ever. W was MILES worse. He's one of the only Presidents in recent US history that actually kept us out of starting new wars. He deserves some props for that. And without him pushing to withdraw from Afghanistan- does that war ever end? I don't think so.

And I never called Maher far left. I actually like him sometimes. He's just such a whiny doucher. The OKAAAAAY PEEEEPUL stuff is soooooo annnnnoying.

Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1193 on: March 16, 2022, 12:00:01 PM »
I disagree. The Baltic states are not nothing countries. Ukraine has shown itself to be a country. The Eastern bloc countries have been solid additions. There have been no wars on their soil. These countries have to be countries with stable constitutional systems.
If only large states joined, small state democracies would be swallowed up by neighboring authoritarian states, and the world would be back where it was in the 1800s, and 1900s. NATO helps preserve member states, and world peace. Putin did not attack a NATO country. If he attacks a NATO country he risks annihilation of his person and his state.
Without NATO Eastern European countries were under constant threat of Soviet/Russian aggression. In 1968 5,000 tanks and 200,000 Warsaw Pact troops invaded Czechoslovakia to crush a brief period of liberalization in the then communist country. Like Ukraine, Czechoslovakia was not a NATO member.
The NATO
alliance, for its member states, stabilized a continent, brought peace, and accompanying economic development to states that were vulnerable to attach from others over centuries. If Ukraine had been a stable democracy before Putin gained power and were a NATO member, this war wouldn't be happening.

USSR and Warsaw Pact has been dead for 31 years. People really need to stop bringing it up. 

And yes, those countries to the United States- are nothing, worthless, meaningless, insignificant countries. They add zero value to the US. They are of zero strategic interest to the US. Do we share a border with any of them? Oh why no, they are all halfway around the world from us. Do they control massive quantities of natural resources that the US needs/wants like Saudi Arabia? Why no. They don't. Are they massive trading partners with US like say China? Why no, they aren't. 

Ukraine has never been a stable democracy. That is the dumbest what if I've ever heard. It's been an independent country since 1991, and it is literally one of the most corrupt countries on planet earth and has been for 30+ years going. And it still is. It's current President that everyone seems to be stanning over has close ties to one of the richest oligarchs in Ukraine- and his name was all over the leaked Pandora Papers- which proved beyond a shadow of a doubt he took payoffs from said oligarch and stashed tens of millions of dollars offshore to avoid tax. Said President has also banned media networks he doesn't like and has imprisoned political opponents without due process. And since 2014 Ukraine has effectively been a US colony that the US has largely controlled by dangling money and weapons over there head in order to get them to comply with US wishes/demands.

utee94

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1194 on: March 16, 2022, 12:00:50 PM »
Bill Maher's opinion of Trump has nothing to do with Ukraine.  Please take it somewhere else.

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Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1195 on: March 16, 2022, 12:02:39 PM »
We're scheduled to visit Estonia on our cruise.  The dropped Finland for some reason.

847badgerfan

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1196 on: March 16, 2022, 12:05:54 PM »
We're scheduled to visit Estonia on our cruise.  The dropped Finland for some reason.
Finland is a little worried right now.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

utee94

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1197 on: March 16, 2022, 12:07:26 PM »
Finland hates them some Russia and is itching to kill some Russians.

If they hadn't canceled that port, I'd be switching cruise destinations anyway.


Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1198 on: March 16, 2022, 12:37:14 PM »
One of the surprises in the speech was Zelensky’s call for a new international body. 

He suggested it should be called “U24” or “United for Peace” and would, in theory, act to stop conflicts immediately.
Whatever the desirability of such an idea, there is no real chance of it being created amid the current crisis, when there is plenty of other international activity going on. Biden is headed to Brussels next week for an extraordinary meeting of NATO members. He will also meet European Union leaders while overseas. 

But Zelensky’s proposal may have had another purpose: It distracted from any new scrutiny on the central issue of whether Ukraine could join NATO in the medium-term. 



MrNubbz

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1199 on: March 16, 2022, 02:04:14 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7hOpT0lPGI
So we needed a brainiac from the Department of Atmospheric and Oceanic Sciences at the University of Colorado-Boulder giving a TED TALK tipping us off that Nuclear War is bad,VERY BAD.Thanx for that incredible bit of insightful information I'm sure kamela will let Sleepy Joe know when she's done deleting her tweets
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

bayareabadger

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1200 on: March 16, 2022, 02:10:34 PM »
So we needed a brainiac from the Department of Atmospheric and Oceanic Sciences at the University of Colorado-Boulder giving a TED TALK tipping us off that Nuclear War is bad,VERY BAD.Thanx for that incredible bit of insightful information I'm sure kamela will let Sleepy Joe know when she's done deleting her tweets
It’s TEDx, which means a lot of quacks get their day. 

Of course, we gotta stop building up quacks by sharing their stuff.

bayareabadger

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1201 on: March 16, 2022, 02:12:38 PM »
Finland hates them some Russia and is itching to kill some Russians.

If they hadn't canceled that port, I'd be switching cruise destinations anyway.


The stories of the WWII era Russian invasion of Finland are legendary. Quick skiers dart past, toss a grenade in a tank, quietly slip away. 

MrNubbz

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #1202 on: March 16, 2022, 02:31:46 PM »
It’s TEDx, which means a lot of quacks get their day.

Of course, we gotta stop building up quacks by sharing their stuff.
Thanx for that incredible bit of insightful information ;D
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

MaximumSam

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