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Topic: The Ukraine Topic

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Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #896 on: March 09, 2022, 05:05:13 PM »
Most universities have "biological research facilities", probably all of them.  I imagine Ukraine has universities.  Hospitals often do as well.

There is a large one not far from where I currently reside.
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Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #897 on: March 09, 2022, 05:12:47 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on March 09, 2022, 05:05:13 PM
Most universities have "biological research facilities", probably all of them.  I imagine Ukraine has universities.  Hospitals often do as well.

There is a large one not far from where I currently reside.
yeah, cool.

why not flatly deny the question pound on the desk and say ABSOLUTELY NOT, instead of clearly avoiding it in bullshit political way and say "ah uhm, they have ah uhm biological research facilities".

And if they are just benign "biological research facilities" - then what is the hoopla and hysteria and worry and concern over Russia getting their hands on them? And why are they working with Ukraine to prevent "research materials" from falling into the hands of Russian forces?
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Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #898 on: March 09, 2022, 05:16:48 PM »
Biological research materials would fairly often include biological agents which are dangerous.  The same would be true for chemical research materials, and labs.

In the hands of less than experts, they'd be more dangerous for the person trying to use them than anyone else.
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Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #899 on: March 09, 2022, 05:22:00 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on March 09, 2022, 05:16:48 PM
Biological research materials would fairly often include biological agents which are dangerous.  The same would be true for chemical research materials, and labs.

In the hands of less than experts, they'd be more dangerous for the person trying to use them than anyone else.
right. and a couple of days ago it was a debunked conspiracy theory that Ukraine had any such bio labs funded by US that contained any such dangerous biological agents. well, turns out that wasn't exactly true.
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Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #900 on: March 09, 2022, 05:23:35 PM »
Her area is labeled as "Political Affairs" and she has little to no academic background in anything biological.  I'm not sure she'd be the person I'd ask about a technical question.  

 She earned a Bachelor of Arts degree from Brown University in 1983, where she studied Russian literature, political science, and history.[11]
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Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #901 on: March 09, 2022, 05:34:49 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on March 09, 2022, 05:23:35 PM
Her area is labeled as "Political Affairs" and she has little to no academic background in anything biological.  I'm not sure she'd be the person I'd ask about a technical question. 

She earned a Bachelor of Arts degree from Brown University in 1983, where she studied Russian literature, political science, and history.[11]
I don't know. just seems really odd to me. 

not sure if you know who she is, but she has wielded tremendous power in Ukraine for the last 8 years. if there's anything going on in Ukraine, she'd know about it. she is one of the highest ranking officials in the US gov't and has been for decades and has been hired by multiple administrations, both republican and democrat. She's seen the most classified intel, she's been in war rooms, I think she knows what a biological or chemical weapons are. you actually need to watch the exchange. she was asked point blank “Does Ukraine have chemical or biological weapons?” She never answered that question directly. She avoided it and said uh ahem uh Ukraine has biological research labs. 
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #902 on: March 09, 2022, 06:07:35 PM »
Perhaps that's not such an easy question to answer.

For a person with overall knowledge, they may know there's biological research facilities with dangerous shit in them and while nothing specifically is known to be weaponized, maybe she also knows that it's located in a military-adjacent location and may not know exactly who is behind which experiments.  The actual scientists are earnest and innocent, but they could be unwittingly doing research that could be weaponized, there's no way of knowing that, etc etc etc.

You can't say yes, because there are no overt examples.
You can't say no, because the ingredients for the recipe for such weapons are all circling each other.

Grey exists, ya know? 
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utee94

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #903 on: March 09, 2022, 06:13:47 PM »
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Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #904 on: March 09, 2022, 06:17:29 PM »
I know a major challenge in using chemicals as weapons is dispersal and control.  You need an explosion that will disperse the agent without destroying the agent.  And of course you need safeguards to prevent premature dispersal.  The agents themselves are well known and not that hard to manufacture.

I imagine biological weapons have the same challenges.  It makes no sense to me that Ukraine would be spending money on biological warfare.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #905 on: March 09, 2022, 06:20:21 PM »
I think they'd buy a jet first......:57:
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #906 on: March 09, 2022, 08:00:15 PM »
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utee94

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #907 on: March 09, 2022, 08:01:15 PM »
In the immortal words of Sting, I hope the Russians love their children too.
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #908 on: March 09, 2022, 08:24:15 PM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on March 09, 2022, 08:00:15 PM
yeah, so this is truly terrifying. war simulations done in 2019. One billion dead.

https://thefederalist.com/2022/03/04/nato-involvement-in-ukraine-could-spark-nuclear-genocide-heres-how-it-could-happen/

here's another one...90 million dead within the first few hours.
https://sea.mashable.com/life/19543/simulation-predicts-90-million-people-will-die-within-hours-if-nuclear-war-breaks-out


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jy3JU-ORpo
This is what has me worried.  It looks at the exact situation the world is currently in, and concludes that there is no scenario where nuclear exchange is avoided- amongst 100 scenarios. 

The economic languishing of Russia, us and most of the rest of world- is getting meaningfully worse withe each passing day, and I fear will be the spark that lights the fuse.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #909 on: March 09, 2022, 08:43:12 PM »
Yeah, I already saw that movie...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s93KC4AGKnY
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier
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