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Topic: The Ukraine Topic

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Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #770 on: March 07, 2022, 08:37:36 AM »
‘Dark Eagle’ has landed: US Army finishes equipping first unit with hypersonic capability — minus the missiles (defensenews.com)

Now that the unit has the necessary equipment, it can begin training for the first joint flight campaign test scheduled with the Navy for the first quarter of FY22. The unit will also prepare for subsequent tests in the fourth quarter of FY22 and the second quarter of FY23.


That doesn't sound operational to me.

Army fields prototype launchers for ‘Dark Eagle’ hypersonic missile | Stars and Stripes

the Army expects the weapon to be ready by 2023. The Dark Eagle is designed to fly 3,800 mph and hit targets 1,700 miles away with precision.

The hypersonic glide missiles are not functionally all that different from regular rockets from what I can discern.  They launch a warhead to high altitude and then it "glides" to target.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2022, 08:47:35 AM by Cincydawg »
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MrNubbz

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #771 on: March 07, 2022, 09:04:50 AM »
They say precision but I remember hearing that about the Patriot Missile System( 1st Gulf War) and the surrounding propoganda. The masses were fed a bunch of bombast with films of scud missiles being taken out.Turns out this was a charade orchestrated at the highest levels of government.Had these same assholes  who designed these debacles pulled that in China/Russia/Saudia Arabia they would have been executed.Instead they cashed big checks that as far as I know were not returned.
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Temp430

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #772 on: March 07, 2022, 09:11:24 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on March 07, 2022, 08:37:36 AM
‘Dark Eagle’ has landed: US Army finishes equipping first unit with hypersonic capability — minus the missiles (defensenews.com)

Now that the unit has the necessary equipment, it can begin training for the first joint flight campaign test scheduled with the Navy for the first quarter of FY22. The unit will also prepare for subsequent tests in the fourth quarter of FY22 and the second quarter of FY23.


That doesn't sound operational to me.

Army fields prototype launchers for ‘Dark Eagle’ hypersonic missile | Stars and Stripes

the Army expects the weapon to be ready by 2023. The Dark Eagle is designed to fly 3,800 mph and hit targets 1,700 miles away with precision.

The hypersonic glide missiles are not functionally all that different from regular rockets from what I can discern.  They launch a warhead to high altitude and then it "glides" to target.

These articles are from October.  The missiles I refereed to were deployed in Germany in mid-November.  Dark Eagle and 8 other hypersonic missile systems were bigly funded and fast tracked.  But you never know, maybe the missiles were just painted cardboard tubes.
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Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #773 on: March 07, 2022, 09:12:43 AM »
My read is they were placed in Europe and are undergoing tests before being operational in 2023.

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Temp430

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #774 on: March 07, 2022, 09:20:10 AM »
I think that unit also has cruise missiles.   The 56th fielded Pershing missiles in Europe back during Cold War 1.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #775 on: March 07, 2022, 10:12:10 AM »
So we're trying to get Poland to provide fighter jets that we'd then replace for them?


Yeah, Russia would be cool with that.  
Smooth.  

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Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #776 on: March 07, 2022, 10:42:13 AM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 07, 2022, 10:12:10 AM
So we're trying to get Poland to provide fighter jets that we'd then replace for them?


Yeah, Russia would be cool with that. 
Smooth. 

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Money, money, money…..MONEY! 

NATO exists now largely just to protect energy infrastructure/supply chain and shipping lanes and as a pretty slick racket to sell an ever expanding group of European and Eurasian countries weapons from US defense contractors. US exports 40% of all arms exported in the world. Basically double the next closest competitor- which happens to be Russia. When NATO expands to add more countries and when countries in NATO actually decide to start spending 2% or more of gdp (like Germany now is) - where do you think they’re going to be spending most of that money and be getting most of those arms from? US baby. 
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Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #777 on: March 07, 2022, 10:44:38 AM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 07, 2022, 10:12:10 AM
So we're trying to get Poland to provide fighter jets that we'd then replace for them?

Yeah, Russia would be cool with that. 
NATO has been slowly trying to standardize armament for decades.  This will probably accelerate that some.  Russia doesn't have a vote in this, so what they think is irrelevant.

And if you imagine that Poland got these fighters somewhere before 1999, at the latest, you can imagine they are not very modern fighters.  I doubt Poland was buying Russian aircraft after joining NATO.  Our F-16s are getting a bit long in the tooth but they'd be an upgrade for Poland.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #778 on: March 07, 2022, 10:45:05 AM »
I see it as laundering fighter jets through Poland so that Russia can't get mad at us.
In a BS "you've got to be kidding' sort of way.

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Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #779 on: March 07, 2022, 10:45:23 AM »
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utee94

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #780 on: March 07, 2022, 10:51:10 AM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 07, 2022, 10:45:05 AM
I see it as laundering fighter jets through Poland so that Russia can't get mad at us.
In a BS "you've got to be kidding' sort of way.





Quote from: Cincydawg on March 07, 2022, 10:44:38 AM
NATO has been slowly trying to standardize armament for decades.  This will probably accelerate that some.  Russia doesn't have a vote in this, so what they think is irrelevant.

And if you imagine that Poland got these fighters somewhere before 1999, at the latest, you can imagine they are not very modern fighters.  I doubt Poland was buying Russian aircraft after joining NATO.  Our F-16s are getting a bit long in the tooth but they'd be an upgrade for Poland.


Right.  Poland is a NATO country so there's not any attempt at subterfuge here. Everyone, including and especially Russia, already knows the US and many other NATO countries are supplying arms to Ukraine.  That's no secret.

The reason Poland would be providing the jets is because they're the only NATO country that has any real inventory of Migs and other old Russian fighting equipment.  Ukraine pilots can't fly American F16s.  They're trained on Russian Migs.  But even with Polish Migs, the controls and comms might be so different that there might not be much chance of training up Ukraine pilots in a reasonable amount of time-- but seems like they want to give it a shot anyway.

And the US will backfill the loss of those Polish Migs, with (slightly) more modern F16s.

« Last Edit: March 07, 2022, 10:59:15 AM by utee94 »
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Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #781 on: March 07, 2022, 10:55:03 AM »
Quote from: utee94 on March 06, 2022, 08:32:06 PM
Putin's already said he considers the sanctions tantamount to an act of war. 

What's he gonna do about it?  Start a nuclear war that eradicates him and everyone else he's ever know from the face of the planet?

Good luck with that.
Sanctions this draconian are an act of war imo. Blockades are an act of war- these type of sanctions and removing them from swift is basically a 21st century blockade of their entire economy. 

Now, Russia or Putin regime in Russia needs to pay a price. And I’d much rather use economic warfare to choke that regime than actually going to war with boots on the ground and establishing no fly zones. Duh. 

Russian military law/doctrine now says they basically can use nukes as a first strike deterrent. I think they changed it in 2019. It basically says that they can use nukes in retaliation to a non-nuclear attack now. Which alone is foolish and dangerous and crazy. I only hope that Putin isn’t this dumb. And if NATO were to get involved and then he’s fighting 30 countries (including US war machine) instead of just 1 overmatched smaller neighbor - who the F knows. He might just press that button and then the end of the world could be upon us.
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Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #782 on: March 07, 2022, 10:58:02 AM »
Aside from being somewhat more modern, it would help standardize NATO aircraft inventory versus having Russian fighters.  That helps a lot of things.

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Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #783 on: March 07, 2022, 10:59:06 AM »
I don't think the phrase "first strike deterrent" makes much sense.

A bit of an oxymoron.
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