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Topic: The Ukraine Topic

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Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #322 on: March 02, 2022, 11:40:04 AM »
2 orchestras fire Russian conductor for supporting Putin - ABC News (go.com)

Gergiev, a friend and supporter of Putin, is the music director of the Mariinsky Theatre in St. Petersburg, Russia, and its White Nights Festival. He was already dropped by the Edinburgh International Festival and from the Vienna Philharmonic’s five-concert U.S. tour, and his management company said Sunday it will no longer represent him.

Milan’s Teatro alla Scala said unless Gergiev makes a clear statement in favor of a peaceful resolution in Ukraine, Gergiev wouldn't be permitted to return to complete his engagement conducting Tchaikovsky’s “The Queen of Spades,” which resumes March 5.
The war also has created difficulties for other Russian artists.

On Tuesday, soprano Anna Netrebko said that she had “decided to take a step back from performing for the time being.”
“As I have said, I am opposed to this senseless war of aggression and I am calling on Russia to end this war right now, to save all of us," she said in a statement. “We need peace right now.”
“This is not a time for me to make music and perform,” she said.

In March 2014 he joined a host of other Russian arts and cultural figures in signing an open letter of support for Russia's position regarding Ukraine and the Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation. The letter was posted on the website of Russia's culture ministry on 12 March 2014. In the letter signatories stated that they "firmly declare our support for the position of the president of the Russian Federation" in the region.[24][25]

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utee94

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #323 on: March 02, 2022, 11:42:34 AM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on March 02, 2022, 11:36:52 AM
yeah, except it's not a red herring, it's absolutely relevant to this discussion at hand as the US has made a complete mockery of international law through the decades- which is why we have zero credibility on the topic of illegal invasions- nor have I ever excused Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

This disastrous outcome we're seeing right now has been a predictable event- one that many from all different backgrounds and stripes have been predicting would come to pass for nearly 15 years- and unfortunately several US administrations and a DC foreign policy elite have ignored all the warnings and predictions. Things do not happen in a vacuum. The world is not black and white. The US has had a major role in the build-up and escalation that lead to this war. To completely deny that is beyond ridiculous.

Yes, you keep attempting to deflect and divert away from Russian responsibility and culpability for the murders occurring right now.  We've all heard your schtick.  As long as you keep it apolitical and keep it about Ukraine/Russia, I won't delete it.  But we've all heard it and you're not swaying the hearts and minds of anyone on this message board by repeating the same crap over and over again.
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Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #324 on: March 02, 2022, 11:43:54 AM »
Yup, whatever mistakes the US has made historically is not relevant to this discussion, at all.  
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longhorn320

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #325 on: March 02, 2022, 11:44:28 AM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on March 02, 2022, 11:36:52 AM
yeah, except it's not a red herring, it's absolutely relevant to this discussion at hand as the US has made a complete mockery of international law through the decades- which is why we have zero credibility on the topic of illegal invasions- nor have I ever excused Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

This disastrous outcome we're seeing right now has been a predictable event- one that many from all different backgrounds and stripes have been predicting would come to pass for nearly 15 years- and unfortunately several US administrations and a DC foreign policy elite have ignored all the warnings and predictions. Things do not happen in a vacuum. The world is not black and white. The US has had a major role in the build-up and escalation that lead to this war. To completely deny that is beyond ridiculous.
so now youre blaming the US for this war

this doesnt even deserve a response

take this shit some where else
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Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #326 on: March 02, 2022, 11:45:07 AM »
Quote from: utee94 on March 02, 2022, 11:39:55 AM
I can empathize, but I feel far worse for the Ukrainians that are being killed daily by Putin's evil and disgusting war of aggression.

Also, we know that part of Putin's arrogance involves being seen as a great world power, and it's clear that sporting events and Russia excelling on the world stage actually do matter to him.  It might seem immaterial, but it's entirely possible that excluding Russia from the world stage in this manner will cause him more harm, than watching his entire nation starve.  He's that much of a dickface.
Agree on both fronts.

And great point that I didn't actually think of. World Cup, Olympics - Russia being respected and seen as a great power is something that he clearly does care about. Probably too much. That backlash has to be burning his ass.
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utee94

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #327 on: March 02, 2022, 11:49:42 AM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on March 02, 2022, 11:45:07 AM
Agree on both fronts.

And great point that I didn't actually think of. World Cup, Olympics - Russia being respected and seen as a great power is something that he clearly does care about. Probably too much. That backlash has to be burning his ass.
I worry as much about his response to THIS type of thing, as I do to his response to the economic crippling of his country.  I think he's acting irrationally right now and either one of those things could lead him to a very dark path of retaliation.
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Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #328 on: March 02, 2022, 11:54:19 AM »
It is concerning if Putin is behaving irrationally, in the past, he has at least appeared to be rational in his actions.  One could look into his eyes ....

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MaximumSam

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #329 on: March 02, 2022, 11:56:09 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on March 02, 2022, 11:43:54 AM
Yup, whatever mistakes the US has made historically is not relevant to this discussion, at all. 
I think that is bonkers. How can one have a discussion about the legality and morality of this war without comparing it to other similar wars? Just seems like wanting to get into rah rah mode with no real actual discussion, just government talking points.
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Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #330 on: March 02, 2022, 11:58:58 AM »
You are allowed to think it is bonkers, on some other thread.  I can't see how the legality and morality of THIS war is remotely questionable.  It's not worth discussion.

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Temp430

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #331 on: March 02, 2022, 11:59:23 AM »
Belarus President Lukashenko gave a briefing yesterday with a map indicating Moldova is Putin's next target.  Moldova is on the Southwest side of Ukraine and is not a NATO member.

https://www.newsweek.com/lukashenkos-map-might-have-revealed-russias-strategy-ukraine-moldova-1683935


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utee94

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #332 on: March 02, 2022, 12:02:13 PM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on March 02, 2022, 11:56:09 AM
I think that is bonkers. How can one have a discussion about the legality and morality of this war without comparing it to other similar wars? Just seems like wanting to get into rah rah mode with no real actual discussion, just government talking points.

I'm not relaying any government talking points at all.  I'm posting up articles and insights from the various sources, both official and unofficial, to try and get an understanding of the current events associated with this specific war.

This thread isn't supposed to be political.  None of the threads on this forum are.  If you want to get into political debates or argue political ideology, then Area 51 has always been the place to go do that.  
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rolltidefan

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #333 on: March 02, 2022, 12:03:48 PM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on March 02, 2022, 11:36:52 AM
yeah, except it's not a red herring, it's absolutely relevant to this discussion at hand as the US has made a complete mockery of international law through the decades- which is why we have zero credibility on the topic of illegal invasions- nor have I ever excused Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

This disastrous outcome we're seeing right now has been a predictable event- one that many from all different backgrounds and stripes have been predicting would come to pass for nearly 15 years- and unfortunately several US administrations and a DC foreign policy elite have ignored all the warnings and predictions. Things do not happen in a vacuum. The world is not black and white. The US has had a major role in the build-up and escalation that lead to this war. To completely deny that is beyond ridiculous.
there's an almost 1000 page thread with roughly 200 pages dedicated to this war. and a significant amount of those 200 pages are you telling us it's not going to happen, it's posturing, us war mongering, us intelligence propaganda, blah blah, while many of us were telling you it's not just going to happen, it already started almost a decade ago. i'm not sure i trust your analysis.
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Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #334 on: March 02, 2022, 12:04:52 PM »
I thought Moldova was already aligned with Putin.
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MaximumSam

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #335 on: March 02, 2022, 12:06:50 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on March 02, 2022, 11:58:58 AM
You are allowed to think it is bonkers, on some other thread.  I can't see how the legality and morality of THIS war is remotely questionable.  It's not worth discussion.
Yeah, but see, that's just your opinion. And in my opinion, it's downright goofy to have a "discussion" about it that isn't actually a discussion. Is it really "political" to talk about United States' actions abroad impact other countries decision making? Otherwise it's just an echo chamber where we decry badness and espouse goodness.
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