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Topic: What non-AP/UPI NCs would you recognize?

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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: What non-AP/UPI NCs would you recognize?
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2025, 07:16:06 PM »
I mean Michigan is claiming 97 - who cares?
1897? 

FearlessF

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Re: What non-AP/UPI NCs would you recognize?
« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2025, 11:12:25 PM »
The 1897 Michigan Wolverines football team was an American football team that represented the University of Michigan in the 1897 Western Conference football season. In its first season under head coach Gustave Ferbert, the team compiled a 6–1–1 record (2–1 against conference opponents), finished third in the Western Conference, and outscored opponents by a total of 166 to 31.

The team suffered its first setback with a scoreless tie against Ohio Wesleyan in the second game of the season. The season also featured the first game between Michigan and Ohio State, with Michigan winning the game by a score of 34 to 0. Michigan won its first two Western Conference games against Purdue (34–4) and Minnesota (14–0), but lost the final game of the season to Amos Alonzo Stagg's Chicago Maroons by a score of 21 to 12.

The team captain was halfback James R. Hogg. Hogg also led the team in scoring with 56 points on six touchdowns (four points each) and 16 goals from touchdown (two points each).
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Cincydawg

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Re: What non-AP/UPI NCs would you recognize?
« Reply #30 on: Today at 07:44:52 AM »
The term "recognize" in this context likely means to "acknowledge the existence, legality, or acceptance" of a thing.  This isn't legal, but I could acknowledge the existence of some NC claim obviously without accepting it.  My personal acceptance of some Auburn claim to an NC is pretty irrelevant, so I don't give it any/much thought (unless someone points to some specific with data).  The claim exists, so I acknowledge that far.

Do I accept it?  No, I don't, aside from someone pointing out some claim they previously had not made and now make with the history behind it.  But, my "analysis" is obviously moot.  They can claim whatever they want, and my life goes on undeterred.  It can make for some discussion for those interested in such things.  I'm not.

847badgerfan

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Re: What non-AP/UPI NCs would you recognize?
« Reply #31 on: Today at 07:51:08 AM »
Cool.
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utee94

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Re: What non-AP/UPI NCs would you recognize?
« Reply #32 on: Today at 08:03:56 AM »
My rules of acceptance are pretty straightforward. In the pre-AP/Coaches' Poll/BCS/CFP era, if the team received the trophy or plaque or letter of congratulations from the awarding body-- at the time it was awarded-- then that's good enough for me.  It's not really my place to apply a retroactive lens of the current state of college football, to events that occurred decades or a century ago.

So this would keep things like the Dickinson System which existed pre-AP and awarded a trophy at the time, to the team.

But it ignores any of the statistical models or computer rankings that retroactively name a national champion, decades or a century after the fact.  If that trophy wasn't given to the coach and the AD and the team at the time they earned it, then it's not legitimate, in my opinion. 

All of that, of course, is beside what I believe the point of this thread to be-- which is identifying teams that did not receive any "official" AP/UPI recognition, but were still worthy of the honor.

Cincydawg

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Re: What non-AP/UPI NCs would you recognize?
« Reply #33 on: Today at 08:29:56 AM »
There is to me a hidden question in this given we have this playoff today.  What if (and it would happen eventually) some 9-3ish Boise State somehow runs the table in a playoff and wins it.  Are they an NC I personally would recognize?  Nope, I'd call them (and everyone else) a "playoff champion".

There is a distinction between the "best team" (which is an opinion, though at times it can be near universal) and playoff champion.  We see that in BBall often.

UGA won the playoff a few years back with a very improbable comeback against Ohio State and then they chomped on a pastry that somehow beat Michigan.  Granted, that UGA team was solid, but if they play OSU or Michigan 100 times, they might win 60ish?

Gigem

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Re: What non-AP/UPI NCs would you recognize?
« Reply #34 on: Today at 09:19:33 AM »
There is to me a hidden question in this given we have this playoff today.  What if (and it would happen eventually) some 9-3ish Boise State somehow runs the table in a playoff and wins it.  Are they an NC I personally would recognize?  Nope, I'd call them (and everyone else) a "playoff champion".

There is a distinction between the "best team" (which is an opinion, though at times it can be near universal) and playoff champion.  We see that in BBall often.

UGA won the playoff a few years back with a very improbable comeback against Ohio State and then they chomped on a pastry that somehow beat Michigan.  Granted, that UGA team was solid, but if they play OSU or Michigan 100 times, they might win 60ish?
Great, then that settles it.  As per your logic, the 2007 Patriots are the champions of the NFL since they went 18-0.  Some other pesky team was the "playoff champion" because they weren't that great and just lucked out there at the end.  

Cincydawg

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Re: What non-AP/UPI NCs would you recognize?
« Reply #35 on: Today at 09:25:21 AM »
Great, then that settles it.  As per your logic, the 2007 Patriots are the champions of the NFL since they went 18-0.  Some other pesky team was the "playoff champion" because they weren't that great and just lucked out there at the end. 
Not exactly my point, which is really that  a "playoff champion", often can be different from "best team" (a qualitative determination).  I think everyone would agree that a playoff champion fairly often is not the "best team".  I don't equate playoff champion with the term "national champion" because the latter is subjective, in my mind.

I still view the whole thing as "mythical".  Maybe it's a distinction without a difference for most.


847badgerfan

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Re: What non-AP/UPI NCs would you recognize?
« Reply #36 on: Today at 09:28:49 AM »
Great, then that settles it.  As per your logic, the 2007 Patriots are the champions of the NFL since they went 18-0.  Some other pesky team was the "playoff champion" because they weren't that great and just lucked out there at the end. 
Pretty much.
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utee94

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Re: What non-AP/UPI NCs would you recognize?
« Reply #37 on: Today at 09:30:30 AM »
Oh I think a lot of people view the NYG championship over the previously undefeated Patriots with plenty of skepticism.  The Giants are the Superbowl champs for sure, they've got the trophy, but I don't know anyone who actually thinks they were the "best team in the NFL" that year.  Not even my die-hard NY-born Giants-fan next door neighbor believes they were.  But he'll still happily claim that Superbowl win, as he should.


Brutus Buckeye

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Re: What non-AP/UPI NCs would you recognize?
« Reply #38 on: Today at 09:30:38 AM »
The 1897 Michigan Wolverines football team was an American football team that represented the University of Michigan in the 1897 Western Conference football season. In its first season under head coach Gustave Ferbert, the team compiled a 6–1–1 record (2–1 against conference opponents), finished third in the Western Conference, and outscored opponents by a total of 166 to 31.

The team suffered its first setback with a scoreless tie against Ohio Wesleyan in the second game of the season. The season also featured the first game between Michigan and Ohio State, with Michigan winning the game by a score of 34 to 0. Michigan won its first two Western Conference games against Purdue (34–4) and Minnesota (14–0), but lost the final game of the season to Amos Alonzo Stagg's Chicago Maroons by a score of 21 to 12.

The team captain was halfback James R. Hogg. Hogg also led the team in scoring with 56 points on six touchdowns (four points each) and 16 goals from touchdown (two points each).


Yeah, that was OSU's worst season of all time, at 1-7.

The only other time they lost that many games was when Luke Fickell went 6-7 in 2011. 

MrNubbz

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Re: What non-AP/UPI NCs would you recognize?
« Reply #39 on: Today at 09:33:07 AM »
1897?
Covered wagons, tuberculosis and Michigan MNCs ;D
One season Oberlin beat both UM & tOSU 1890s sometime
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Gigem

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Re: What non-AP/UPI NCs would you recognize?
« Reply #40 on: Today at 09:34:45 AM »
Yeah, that was OSU's worst season of all time, at 1-7.

The only other time they lost that many games was when Luke Fickell went 6-7 in 2011.
I was looking through the records the other day and came across that and strangely I don't remember that happening.  Why was he the coach for only one season?  Was he like an interim coach after Tressel was fired?  

MrNubbz

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Re: What non-AP/UPI NCs would you recognize?
« Reply #41 on: Today at 09:36:23 AM »
Yes - one of two Michigan wins in 18 seasons 😂
"Uecker - grab a bat, get in there and put a stop to this rally!" - Phillies Manager Gene Mauch

 

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