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Topic: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy

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MikeDeTiger

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #9184 on: December 05, 2023, 02:25:58 PM »
Amongst the range of things I know something about, nuclear energy is absent.  Anybody know enough about it to answer a couple of questions I have?

Specifically, my understanding is nuclear power would be cheap and plenteous.  The cons seems to be disposal of waste, or something like that.  I guess there's always the threat of plant meltdowns and another Chernobyl.  I've seen responses along the lines of "waste can be managed and the downside mitigated" (how?) and "Chernobyl was due to cheap parts and human error that we can safeguard now with better technology." 

I guess my question is, how accurate is any of that?

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #9185 on: December 05, 2023, 02:50:36 PM »
Reasonably accurate, though the cost in practical terms  is quite high relatively speaking today.  A lot of this is the paperwork part of course.  Vogtle 3 and 4 are cases in point, way way late and way over cost est.

What some countries have done, like France, is standardize reactor design, so they don't have to get approval for each one.  In the US, each one is new (aside from pairs), so they undergo laborious licensing and inspections.  The waste thing is a nonissue, really, in technical terms.  France deals with it by reprocessing spent fuel,  the US does not.

The possible future is Small Modular Reactors (SMRs) that could power say a town, or factory complex.  They are SAID to be cheaper and safer etc. etc. etc.

The Holy Grail in all of this is nuclear fusion power reactors, which is quipped to be "The energy of the future, and always will be."  Some recent developments look promising, a bit, but I wouldn't hold out on a real fusion power reactor existing anywhere until 2070, if then.  They need a couple real breakthroughs.


MikeDeTiger

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #9186 on: December 05, 2023, 03:21:56 PM »
For us troglodytes, what is the difference in current nuclear power and nuclear fusion power?  And is nuclear energy in its current form appreciably "cleaner" than electric?  

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #9187 on: December 05, 2023, 03:26:50 PM »
For us troglodytes, what is the difference in current nuclear power and nuclear fusion power?  And is nuclear energy in its current form appreciably "cleaner" than electric? 
The current power reactors use nuclear FISSION, based on a heavy element (uranium) that can be split, a process that releases heat energy.  Think A bomb.

Fusion is the reverse, it uses a very light element and fuses atoms together, a process which also releases heat energy.  Think H bomb.

Fusion produces less radioactivity and waste, in theory, and would be much cheaper, in theory, as the nuclear "fuel" is very abundant.  This is the power source for the Sun.

Hawkinole

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #9188 on: December 05, 2023, 03:27:47 PM »
Amongst the range of things I know something about, nuclear energy is absent.  Anybody know enough about it to answer a couple of questions I have?

Specifically, my understanding is nuclear power would be cheap and plenteous.  The cons seems to be disposal of waste, or something like that.  I guess there's always the threat of plant meltdowns and another Chernobyl.  I've seen responses along the lines of "waste can be managed and the downside mitigated" (how?) and "Chernobyl was due to cheap parts and human error that we can safeguard now with better technology." 

I guess my question is, how accurate is any of that?
About 5-10 years ago one of the major electrical and gas utility companies in Iowa proposed building a nuclear power plant in Iowa. I did some online research on cost. The cost of generating nuclear power was much higher than fossil fuel, hydroelectric, or wind. It was not even close.
Nuclear is very clean. The worrisome aspects are waste storage, transportation of nuclear waste to permanent storage, permanent storage, and security of such facilities from manmade and natural disasters. When Fukishima went south I had no idea power plants stored spent nuclear fuel cells onsite (and in an earthquake zone, and area subject to tsunamis). They must do so to cool them down before sending them elsewhere for permanent storage. In retrospect it seems fair to ask why anyone would build a nuclear power plant near geological fault lines.
I haven't researched cost of nuclear power recently. Unfortunately, since it is such a clean burning fuel, the cost of generating nuclear power was an eye opener.

Cincydawg

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FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #9190 on: December 05, 2023, 03:55:55 PM »
seems to this dirt farmer.... going all in on nuclear power is the only feasible way to replace burning fossil fuels quickly enough to ward off climate change
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #9191 on: December 05, 2023, 03:56:55 PM »
My thought is similar, go hard on shutting down coal plants, replacing them with SMRs and a single design.  But licensing would take forever as things stand.



FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #9192 on: December 05, 2023, 04:01:28 PM »
Warren Buffet claims that solar and wind power could and would be much farther along if not for bureaucratic rules, regulations, and other hurdles.  And of course more cooperation from power companies. 
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #9193 on: December 05, 2023, 04:02:35 PM »
That's true for any construction project.

847badgerfan

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #9194 on: December 05, 2023, 04:09:38 PM »
seems to this dirt farmer.... going all in on nuclear power is the only feasible way to replace burning fossil fuels quickly enough to ward off climate change
And we don't even know if THAT will work.

Or do we?

Do they?
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

MikeDeTiger

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #9195 on: December 05, 2023, 04:10:31 PM »
Warren Buffet claims that solar and wind power could and would be much farther along if not for bureaucratic rules, regulations, and other hurdles.  And of course more cooperation from power companies.

That's odd, considering here in TX solar and wind energy outfits are subsidized by the bureaucrats to the point they don't need to be profitable, or particularly productive.  

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #9196 on: December 05, 2023, 04:12:32 PM »
The US could magically go to a zero carbon electrical system and we'd make only a slight dent in climate change, using their models.

I'm talking maybe a tenth of a degree in 25 years.

MikeDeTiger

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #9197 on: December 05, 2023, 04:15:35 PM »
We've gotta get the cows to stop farting.  

 

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