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Topic: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy

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FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8484 on: July 19, 2023, 04:34:24 PM »
There were "only" 27 overall days at 110+ in 1989.  The top 5 overall days of 110+ in a year have all been since 2016.
The top of the list was 2020, with 50-something days of 110+.


I'd move north
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8485 on: July 19, 2023, 04:35:08 PM »
NYC
They have farms upstate.
.
Honestly, Phoenix probably has farming simply due to tradition.  The natives used the rivers to irrigate while they could, then they left when things probably dried up.
New natives came and saw the evidence of irrigation, so they did it, too, when I guess water returned to the valley.
And then the white man continued on.
And it'd be fine for 20,000 people or 100,000 or so.  But no.  We need to shoehorn like 2.5 million people with a damned-off river in an outdoor oven and raise crops, play on green golf courses, and all the other brilliance.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8486 on: July 19, 2023, 04:35:25 PM »
Uhhhh, to eat?
How many cities don't have crops growing all around it?
Atlanta has rather little agriculture around it.  A lot of our food today comes from California.  Desert land is nearly worthless, irrigate it and it becomes fairly valuable.  And folks don't usually eat cotton.


What We Grow | Arizona Department of Agriculture (az.gov)


Cotton is one of the original and major agricultural commodities produced in Arizona.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8487 on: July 19, 2023, 04:38:47 PM »
5 Cs
cotton, citrus, copper, aaaaand 2 other ones.
.
Again, these are probably traditional and helped with the initial economics of he state, but are nearly meaningless today.
AZ isn't in the top 10 in cotton production by state now.
Citrus is similar.  CA and FL produce 98% of citrus in the U.S.  Texas and AZ the other 2%.
.
Arizona grows shit, but very little shit.  Because it doesn't rain.  Ever.  And it gets 1/6th of the Colorado River.  
And it's plan to swindle the Navajo out of their aquifer was foiled.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8488 on: July 19, 2023, 04:38:51 PM »
How Arizona Cotton Is Fueling the West's Water Crisis - Killing the Colorado - ProPublica
How Arizona Cotton Is Fueling the West's Water Crisis - Killing the Colorado - ProPublica

Cotton is one of the thirstiest crops in existence, and each acre cultivated here demands six times as much water as lettuce, 60 percent more than wheat. That precious liquid is pulled from a nearby federal reservoir, siphoned from beleaguered underground aquifers and pumped in from the Colorado River hundreds of miles away.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8489 on: July 19, 2023, 04:40:23 PM »
The land is usually fairly fertile, aside from water, and folks who bought the land realized they could make the land much more valuable by irrigating it.  I recall they grow a lot of cotton out there which has fairly high water demands.

The Central Valley in California is somewhat similar, very fertile, very dry, and enormously productive with irrigation.
Yeah, and I was drawn to look it up because apparently a lot of what they grow are feed crops (alfalfa being a big one). So they're not even growing food for human consumption, they're growing water-intensive feed crops to ship to other states. 

I know California grows a lot of crops that I assume do well in this climate, but it still seems strange that we're devoting a bunch of very scarce water to agriculture such that we aren't sure we'll have enough for people, when we've got HUGE empty states in the middle of the country that have plenty of water and very few people. 

FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8490 on: July 19, 2023, 04:41:44 PM »
Yeah, and I was drawn to look it up because apparently a lot of what they grow are feed crops (alfalfa being a big one). So they're not even growing food for human consumption, they're growing water-intensive feed crops to ship to other states.
beef and pork and poultry production in Zona???
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8491 on: July 19, 2023, 04:41:50 PM »
We might all agree they should not be growing cotton in AZ, grow something less water intensive, duh.  But then, how does anyone achieve that?

FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8492 on: July 19, 2023, 04:42:28 PM »
How Arizona Cotton Is Fueling the West's Water Crisis - Killing the Colorado - ProPublica
How Arizona Cotton Is Fueling the West's Water Crisis - Killing the Colorado - ProPublica

Cotton is one of the thirstiest crops in existence, and each acre cultivated here demands six times as much water as lettuce, 60 percent more than wheat. That precious liquid is pulled from a nearby federal reservoir, siphoned from beleaguered underground aquifers and pumped in from the Colorado River hundreds of miles away.
apparently, the Cotton lobby is similar to the strength of the egg lobby
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8493 on: July 19, 2023, 04:42:52 PM »
Wuertz could plant any number of crops that use far less water than cotton and fill grocery store shelves from Maine to Minnesota. But along with hundreds of farmers across Arizona, he has kept planting his fields with cotton instead. He says he has done it out of habit, pride, practicality, and even a self-deprecating sense that he wouldn’t be good at anything else. But in truth, one reason outweighs all the others: The federal government has long offered him so many financial incentives to do it that he can’t afford not to.

“Some years all of what you made came from the government,” Wuertz said. “Your bank would finance your farming operation … because they knew the support was guaranteed. They wouldn’t finance wheat, or alfalfa. Cotton was always dependable, it would always work.”


FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8494 on: July 19, 2023, 04:43:58 PM »
hah, not the government!
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8495 on: July 19, 2023, 04:45:44 PM »
Same with almonds and avacados in CA.
It's all broken.
The climate you grow something in doesn't matter. Might as well grow oranges in North Dakota.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8496 on: July 19, 2023, 04:46:50 PM »
beef and pork and poultry production in Zona???
I know a lot of cows raised for beef graze for most of their lives, and then are just finished with feed to fatten them up before slaughter. 

W/O getting into politics, I heard about this related to LIV golf and the Saudis which leased a significant chunk of land in AZ and grow alfalfa with cheap water to ship back to Saudi Arabia to feed their dairy cows. I'd guess then that alfalfa is maybe used for dairy cows for milk & cheese, while corn is used to fatten up cows who will end up as beef?

Admittedly I'm neither a farmer nor a rancher, so this is out of my expertise. It's just always been strange to me how much we CONTINUE to devote resources to farming deserts. Maybe it made sense when much more of our society's food production was local, but now it really isn't. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8497 on: July 19, 2023, 04:47:45 PM »
How Arizona Cotton Is Fueling the West's Water Crisis - Killing the Colorado - ProPublica
How Arizona Cotton Is Fueling the West's Water Crisis - Killing the Colorado - ProPublica

This is worth a few minutes to read I think.

 

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