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Topic: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8302 on: July 12, 2023, 09:44:55 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on July 12, 2023, 09:40:30 AM
No, it's not.  A chemical reaction by definition requires some compound to be converted into another compound (or element).  Changing a mixture is not that.

Definitions are important when available and clear cut.
Jesus fucking Christ.
I specifically said NOT BY DEFINITION.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8303 on: July 12, 2023, 09:46:11 AM »
There are some chemical reactions in all of this, but most of it is physics.  

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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8304 on: July 12, 2023, 09:47:08 AM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 12, 2023, 09:44:55 AM
Jesus fucking Christ.
I specifically said NOT BY DEFINITION.
You asked the question, I provided the answer.  
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8305 on: July 12, 2023, 10:29:26 AM »
Quote from: longhorn320 on July 12, 2023, 09:25:12 AM
and maybe it is but adding 1 oz to 78 gallons to help it retain heat seems like a stretch

but Id be the first to tell you how unqualified I am in that field

Im not going to run for President over it

Its just a personal thought
Again, climate science is 200 years old. How did the greenhouse gas theory even start? 

It was a bunch of scientists who didn't understand why the Earth wasn't a lifeless iceball. 

You know the difference between "lifeless iceball" and "lush, green, beautiful, life-supporting Earth"? 280 ppm. 

Literally without 280 ppm of CO2 we'd have a dead planet. 

But you think increasing that a further 50% will have no effect. 
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Gigem

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8306 on: July 12, 2023, 10:29:31 AM »
Quote from: FearlessF on July 12, 2023, 09:25:25 AM
I'd guess private jets are a small percentage of CO2 generation compared to commercial airlines

better to simply ban all air travel for leisure and for 90% of business

the only way for this to save the planet is for extreme changes in lifestyle

not just throwing $$$ at a problem
And by that token my personal contribution to CO2 generation is actually quite miniscule.  So therefore I am exempt.  
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longhorn320

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8307 on: July 12, 2023, 10:39:59 AM »
Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 12, 2023, 10:29:26 AM
Again, climate science is 200 years old. How did the greenhouse gas theory even start?

It was a bunch of scientists who didn't understand why the Earth wasn't a lifeless iceball.

You know the difference between "lifeless iceball" and "lush, green, beautiful, life-supporting Earth"? 280 ppm.

Literally without 280 ppm of CO2 we'd have a dead planet.

But you think increasing that a further 50% will have no effect.
dont we have water vapor also as a GH gas



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FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8308 on: July 12, 2023, 10:49:34 AM »
Quote from: Gigem on July 12, 2023, 10:29:31 AM
And by that token my personal contribution to CO2 generation is actually quite miniscule.  So therefore I am exempt. 
I've been on one flight in the past 7 years
from Omaha to San Diego and back
I could have skipped that one - was for work

My electric bill is up about $10 this month from the previous two months - $61

I could do more by walking on the golf course instead of riding in a cart, but I'm doing more than most
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8309 on: July 12, 2023, 10:52:20 AM »
Quote from: longhorn320 on July 12, 2023, 10:39:59 AM
dont we have water vapor also as a GH gas
You don't have water vapor if the earth is a lifeless iceball. All the water will be frozen. 
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FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8310 on: July 12, 2023, 10:53:54 AM »
we would all be frozen as well and therefore not arguing
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longhorn320

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8311 on: July 12, 2023, 11:03:44 AM »
Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on July 12, 2023, 10:52:20 AM
You don't have water vapor if the earth is a lifeless iceball. All the water will be frozen.
not very realistic

are we going to kill all vegetation

water vapor by volume represents 80 to 90 percent by volume of all GH gases
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8312 on: July 12, 2023, 11:10:27 AM »
Quote from: longhorn320 on July 12, 2023, 11:03:44 AM
not very realistic

are we going to kill all vegetation

water vapor by volume represents 80 to 90 percent by volume of all GH gases
Yes, but we have pretty good history here. 

180 ppm = ice age
280 ppm = interglacial (warm) period
400 ppm = really hot period

Quote
On May 9, 2013, an instrument near the summit of Mauna Loa in Hawai'i, United States, recorded a long-awaited climate milestone: the amount of carbon dioxide (CO2)in the atmosphere there had exceeded 400 parts per million (ppm) for the first time in 55 years of measurement—and probably more than thre million years of Earth history.

The last time the concentration of Earth's main greenhouse gas reached this mark, horses and camels lived in the high Arctic. Seas were at least 9.1 meters (30 feet higher)—at a level that today would inundate major cities around the world.

The planet was about 2 to 3 degrees Celsius (3.6 to 5.4 degrees Fahrenheit) warmer.


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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8313 on: July 12, 2023, 11:24:35 AM »
Water vapor is a GHG.  It's nearly all in the lower troposphere of course.

It's a "forcing factor" I mentioned above.  Stipulate that our climate heats up by 0.1°C, that means more water vapor can be present (will be present).  More of that means more heat retention, which means more water vapor, and so on.  This is on way a small effect can compound or spiral into a large effect.

Clouds are more complex factors as they both keep heat in and increase our albedo reflecting more "heat" into space.  This is a simple step into the complexity of climate models.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8314 on: July 12, 2023, 11:32:44 AM »
Quote from: longhorn320 on July 12, 2023, 10:39:59 AM
dont we have water vapor also as a GH gas




Here's your what about-ism.  What about water vapor?  What about this other random thing?  
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #8315 on: July 12, 2023, 11:36:23 AM »
It's a legitimate question for someone trying to understand all of this.  Most folks just accept whatever they are told to believe by whichever political party and leave it at that.
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