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Topic: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy

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longhorn320

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #7406 on: April 18, 2023, 06:28:12 PM »
Really? Are you deliberately trolling me at this point? Or are you not reading anything I've posted for the last two days?

4% is NOT the amount of man-made CO2 in the air. 4% (or 3.2%, or 5%, depends when you look and the assumptions made) is the portion of annual emissions due to man.

Read, again, what I said about your three links claiming that man-made portion is 4% of overall CO2 in the atmosphere:


Of course, I say that you should read that "again", but I don't trust that you read it the first two times.


I already corrected this
total co2 is not 4% but instead .04% and man made co2 is 4% of that number
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

longhorn320

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #7407 on: April 18, 2023, 06:30:41 PM »
I'd highlight one thing here... If you're on one side of an argument about facts and science... And on the other side are me, @utee94 , and @Cincydawg -- maybe you should really think about what you're arguing.
im only pointing out that total co2 is .04% and the man made portion of co2 is 4% of that number and commenting that that is a really small number to be threatening man
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #7408 on: April 18, 2023, 06:57:17 PM »
I already corrected this
total co2 is not 4% but instead .04% and man made co2 is 4% of that number
im only pointing out that total co2 is .04% and the man made portion of co2 is 4% of that number and commenting that that is a really small number to be threatening man
But I've explained it about a dozen times a dozen different ways, and @Cincydawg another half dozen, that you have no basis for the claim that man-made CO2 is only 4% of the 0.04% CO2 concentration in the atmosphere. Even your own three links don't show it. One has no credibility, and the other two don't even claim it. Yet you keep repeating it. 

Man is responsible for 4% (give or take) of annual emissions of CO2. However, man is likely responsible for about 1/3 of the total accumulated CO2 in the atmosphere. Because that 4% is an increase in annual CO2 emissions that is overwhelming the natural ability of the Earth to sink additional CO2. So it's accumulating in the atmosphere. 

You either don't understand what I'm posting, you're not actually reading the posts and don't care, or you're repeating the same crap over and over despite understanding in order to troll me. Which is it?

longhorn320

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #7409 on: April 18, 2023, 08:21:54 PM »
But I've explained it about a dozen times a dozen different ways, and @Cincydawg another half dozen, that you have no basis for the claim that man-made CO2 is only 4% of the 0.04% CO2 concentration in the atmosphere. Even your own three links don't show it. One has no credibility, and the other two don't even claim it. Yet you keep repeating it.

Man is responsible for 4% (give or take) of annual emissions of CO2. However, man is likely responsible for about 1/3 of the total accumulated CO2 in the atmosphere. Because that 4% is an increase in annual CO2 emissions that is overwhelming the natural ability of the Earth to sink additional CO2. So it's accumulating in the atmosphere.

You either don't understand what I'm posting, you're not actually reading the posts and don't care, or you're repeating the same crap over and over despite understanding in order to troll me. Which is it?

here are articles stating 3.2% of the co2 in the atmosphere is man made

https://www.echopress.com/opinion/letter-only-a-tiny-percent-of-co2-in-the-atmosphere-is-man-made

https://brainly.in/question/9453445
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

longhorn320

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #7410 on: April 18, 2023, 08:27:51 PM »
tell me what your view is 

what is man made co2 as a % of total co2 currently in our atmosphere
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #7411 on: April 19, 2023, 07:34:22 AM »

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #7412 on: April 19, 2023, 09:50:28 AM »
It's a very simple calculation if you understand the level has increased from 280 ppm to 421 ppm over the past century or so, nearly all of which is man made.

Carbon dioxide now more than 50% higher than pre-industrial levels | National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (noaa.gov)

The increase is 141 ppm, which is about half of the 280 figure commonly used.  I don't know how this can be logically disputed or argued against.  It's a known fact.

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #7413 on: April 19, 2023, 09:53:20 AM »
Another, quite independent way that we know that fossil fuel burning and land clearing specifically are responsible for the increase in CO2 in the last 150 years is through the measurement of carbon isotopes. Isotopes are simply different atoms with the same chemical behavior (isotope means “same type”) but with different masses. Carbon is composed of three different isotopes, 14C, 13C and 12C. 12C is the most common. 13C is about 1% of the total. 14C accounts for only about 1 in 1 trillion carbon atoms.
CO2 produced from burning fossil fuels or burning forests has quite a different isotopic composition from CO2 in the atmosphere. This is because plants have a preference for the lighter isotopes (12C vs. 13C); thus they have lower 13C/12C ratios. Since fossil fuels are ultimately derived from ancient plants, plants and fossil fuels all have roughly the same 13C/12C ratio – about 2% lower than that of the atmosphere. As CO2 from these materials is released into, and mixes with, the atmosphere, the average 13C/12C ratio of the atmosphere decreases.

Isotope geochemists have developed time series of variations in the 14C and 13C concentrations of atmospheric CO2. One of the methods used is to measure the 13C/12C in tree rings, and use this to infer those same ratios in atmospheric CO2. This works because during photosynthesis, trees take up carbon from the atmosphere and lay this carbon down as plant organic material in the form of rings, providing a snapshot of the atmospheric composition of that time. If the ratio of 13C/12C in atmospheric CO2 goes up or down, so does the 13C/12C of the tree rings. This isn’t to say that the tree rings have the same isotopic composition as the atmosphere – as noted above, plants have a preference for the lighter isotopes, but as long as that preference doesn’t change much, the tree-ring changes wiil track the atmospheric changes.


RealClimate: How do we know that recent CO2 increases are due to human activities?


847badgerfan

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #7414 on: April 19, 2023, 10:10:23 AM »
1. Phase out coal by 2033
2. Phase out hydropower by 2033 - remove dangerous dams based on dam failure analyses
3. Nuclear takes coal's place (it takes 5-7 years to build a plant)
4. Solar/Wind in strategic spots to take over for hydropower
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #7415 on: April 19, 2023, 10:15:24 AM »
here are articles stating 3.2% of the co2 in the atmosphere is man made

https://www.echopress.com/opinion/letter-only-a-tiny-percent-of-co2-in-the-atmosphere-is-man-made

https://brainly.in/question/9453445
"Articles"?!?!

The first one you've already posted, and I already pointed out that it's a letter to the editor, from a person of unknown background, with no credibility. 

The second one is a question/answer site, where two people of unknown background, and no credibility, claimed this. 

You're bringing spitwads to a gunfight here. 

tell me what your view is

what is man made co2 as a % of total co2 currently in our atmosphere
It's a bullshit and irrelevant question. CO2 is part of the carbon cycle, which means that man made CO2 will exist in our atmosphere, will be captured by growing plants, will be absorbed by the ocean. Isolating only one portion of the system (the atmosphere) is useless.

The important question is what has caused the rise in global atmospheric CO2 levels, and my view is that man-made CO2 burning via fossil fuels is responsible for the rise from 280 ppm to 400+ ppm. 

847badgerfan

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #7416 on: April 19, 2023, 10:16:30 AM »
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #7417 on: April 19, 2023, 10:17:53 AM »
We'd need a lot to change to build a nuclear power plant in 5-7 years.  It's doable, with those change, it just doesn't happen.

Vogtle 3 has taken ten years.

longhorn320

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #7418 on: April 19, 2023, 10:20:39 AM »
Another, quite independent way that we know that fossil fuel burning and land clearing specifically are responsible for the increase in CO2 in the last 150 years is through the measurement of carbon isotopes. Isotopes are simply different atoms with the same chemical behavior (isotope means “same type”) but with different masses. Carbon is composed of three different isotopes, 14C, 13C and 12C. 12C is the most common. 13C is about 1% of the total. 14C accounts for only about 1 in 1 trillion carbon atoms.
CO2 produced from burning fossil fuels or burning forests has quite a different isotopic composition from CO2 in the atmosphere. This is because plants have a preference for the lighter isotopes (12C vs. 13C); thus they have lower 13C/12C ratios. Since fossil fuels are ultimately derived from ancient plants, plants and fossil fuels all have roughly the same 13C/12C ratio – about 2% lower than that of the atmosphere. As CO2 from these materials is released into, and mixes with, the atmosphere, the average 13C/12C ratio of the atmosphere decreases.

Isotope geochemists have developed time series of variations in the 14C and 13C concentrations of atmospheric CO2. One of the methods used is to measure the 13C/12C in tree rings, and use this to infer those same ratios in atmospheric CO2. This works because during photosynthesis, trees take up carbon from the atmosphere and lay this carbon down as plant organic material in the form of rings, providing a snapshot of the atmospheric composition of that time. If the ratio of 13C/12C in atmospheric CO2 goes up or down, so does the 13C/12C of the tree rings. This isn’t to say that the tree rings have the same isotopic composition as the atmosphere – as noted above, plants have a preference for the lighter isotopes, but as long as that preference doesn’t change much, the tree-ring changes wiil track the atmospheric changes.


RealClimate: How do we know that recent CO2 increases are due to human activities?


OK you sold me

so going back to my ppm statement

total atmosphere units = 1,000,000

Total co2 units would be = 400

Total man made co2 units would be = 141

so all that remains is believing this very small number actually increases temp
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #7419 on: April 19, 2023, 10:26:14 AM »
Any discussion as to how a small amount (or increase) in CO2 levels would affect climate would get very technical in a hurry.

If you are interested, you can read any number of sites on line about how greenhouse gases function and why a tiny amount can be pivotal.

If the CO2 composition were zero, our climate would be MUCH colder today.  And we'd not be here.

 

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