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Topic: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy

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longhorn320

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #7154 on: March 27, 2023, 11:06:20 AM »
The typical baseline figure I see is 280 ppm, and we're at 410 ppm now (0.04%), so about a third.  That 280 ppm is responsible for warming the planet about 59°F, or so folks say.

So, it's a fairly large influencer.  Water vapor is also a factor, a confounding one at that.  This is partially why the models get so complex.
of the total co2 in our air what percent is put there by man

I didnt see that in your post
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #7155 on: March 27, 2023, 11:12:04 AM »
If 0.028% is baseline and everything over that is manmade, we're not at .0410%, so the differrence is about a third, or 0.0013% of the total atmospheric gas level.

One can verify that 130 ppm is manmade by isotopic analysis of the CO2.

longhorn320

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #7156 on: March 27, 2023, 11:18:04 AM »
If 0.028% is baseline and everything over that is manmade, we're not at .0410%, so the differrence is about a third, or 0.0013% of the total atmospheric gas level.

One can verify that 130 ppm is manmade by isotopic analysis of the CO2.
some how we are missing each other

if you coulds bottle up all the co2 in our air that would be equal to some number

of that number how much was put there by man's activities
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #7157 on: March 27, 2023, 11:19:10 AM »
I don't know.

longhorn320

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #7158 on: March 27, 2023, 11:25:20 AM »
I don't know.
most scientists agree that the percentage of man made co2 ito total co2 in our atmosphere is less then 4%

meaning 96% is nonman made

doesnt it seem like we are getting excited over a very small amout percentage wise made by man

why is the 4% determined to be the main cause of climate change
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #7159 on: March 27, 2023, 11:29:58 AM »
It's WAY WAY WAY less than 4%.  The current total level is 0.041%, or about 410 ppm.  It's a VERY minor component in the atmosphere, as I stated above.

The primary other gases don't absorb in the IR region and so are not greenhouse gases.  A VERY minor component can have an enormous impact on things.

longhorn320

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #7160 on: March 27, 2023, 11:33:53 AM »
It's WAY WAY WAY less than 4%.  The current total level is 0.041%, or about 410 ppm.  It's a VERY minor component in the atmosphere, as I stated above.

The primary other gases don't absorb in the IR region and so are not greenhouse gases.  A VERY minor component can have an enormous impact on things.
why would that small percentage be considered to be the main cause of climate change

« Last Edit: March 27, 2023, 11:41:48 AM by longhorn320 »
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847badgerfan

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #7161 on: March 27, 2023, 11:37:39 AM »
whay would that small percentage be considered to be the main cause of climate change


Government control.


They've taken care of everything for us.

They are the priests!
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #7162 on: March 27, 2023, 11:38:24 AM »
CO2 is a very potent absorber in the infrared range.  As I noted above, the "normal" level keeps us much warmer than if it was zero.  

I have found that both climate alarmists and climate deniers often don't understand the very basic aspects of climate science, but they both have strong opinions (based on their politics in the main).


longhorn320

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #7163 on: March 27, 2023, 11:47:47 AM »
CO2 is a very potent absorber in the infrared range.  As I noted above, the "normal" level keeps us much warmer than if it was zero. 

I have found that both climate alarmists and climate deniers often don't understand the very basic aspects of climate science, but they both have strong opinions (based on their politics in the main).


I dont pretent to know what a scientist knows but again my question is why has the very small percents of co2 created by man been determined to be the main cause of climate change

to me thats like saying if a man consumes 96 oz of beer and then drinks 4 more oz of beer it was that last 4 oz that made him drunk

its crap like this that makes some folks feel that its just a political ploy to gain power
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #7164 on: March 27, 2023, 11:53:46 AM »
Well, to explain why I'd have to post some IR spectra which might not make much sense.  It is well known that CO2 is a potent "greenhouse" gas, it's well known why this is, and it's understandable that a tiny change in its concentration COULD have significant impacts on our climate.  Things we know, as facts:

1.  CO2 is a potent greenhouse gas (methane is more potent, but present at much lower concentrations).  It keeps out climate about 59°F warmer than it would be without it.
2.  The level of CO2 has risen from about 280 to about 410 ppm.
3.  Nearly all of this rise is due to burning fossil fuels.

What is less well known is how much this increase is going to impact our climate as the models are hyper complex.  "We" could be over, or under, estimating the impact.

Another thing apparent to me is that "we" aren't really doing much of anything about this beyond throwing money at it.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #7165 on: March 27, 2023, 11:59:22 AM »
of that number how much was put there by man's activities
About a third. As CD said.

most scientists agree that the percentage of man made co2 ito total co2 in our atmosphere is less then 4%

meaning 96% is nonman made

doesnt it seem like we are getting excited over a very small amout percentage wise made by man

why is the 4% determined to be the main cause of climate change

This is incorrect. The fact is that some carbon in our atmosphere is good and normal, and our planet has a carbon cycle that for the last milion years has held carbon between about 250 and 300 ppm. The carbon cycle means that there are plenty of natural CO2 emissions on the planet, which is where the 4% comes from. And the planet is capable of pulling the same amount of carbon out of the air each year as naturally emit. It's in balance. 

Based on some research I've done related to this 4% claim, it's believed that on an annual basis, 96-97% of the CO2 emitted is from natural sources, and only 3-4% is man-made. Which is a different claim than only 4% being due to man. 

But the issue is that the planet doesn't have any way to handle that extra 3-4%, because it's in excess to the natural carbon cycle's capacity to pull out of the air. Hence, the concentration in the atmosphere is accumulating based on the extra 3-4% that is emitted every year. 

So if you ask about the rise from 280-410 ppm over the industrial era, I would state that the rise is almost entirely, if not entirely, caused by humans. Even if it it was only 3-4% of emissions per year, that can add up QUITE a bit of accumulation over the span of 150+ years. 

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #7166 on: March 27, 2023, 12:02:38 PM »
I dont pretent to know what a scientist knows but again my question is why has the very small percents of co2 created by man been determined to be the main cause of climate change

to me thats like saying if a man consumes 96 oz of beer and then drinks 4 more oz of beer it was that last 4 oz that made him drunk

its crap like this that makes some folks feel that its just a political ploy to gain power

No, it's based on the idea that your liver has the ability to process a certain amount of alcohol per hour. 

For the sake of argument, we will assume that it's 1 beer per hour. Your liver can process that amount of alcohol in perpetuity. 

If you drink 1 beer per hour, you'll never be drunk. Your BAC will hover just barely north of zero. If you drink 1.04 beers per hour, your BAC will slowly but surely increase until the point at which you're completely hammered. It might take a while, but if you can't process the extra alcohol, it stays in your blood. 

Temp430

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #7167 on: March 27, 2023, 12:05:35 PM »
Not so sure about that.  The world is still warming up from the last ice age and Maunder minimum.  Like your beer carbon dioxide is less soluble in warm ocean water and there is also an increase in microbial respiration with temperature.   Microbes releasing CO2 from old rock would also cause a relative depletion of C13 in atmospheric CO2.  
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