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Topic: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy

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ELA

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #6748 on: December 15, 2022, 04:35:42 PM »
yup, I have my fingers crossed for any and all breakthroughs in technology
And as long as China respects our IP, we are golden

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #6749 on: December 15, 2022, 04:59:08 PM »
Sure, but the fact that we are making advances at all, in the face of corporate money (which is a disproportionate amount of research money now, compared to a generation ago), is a good thing. 
I don't think that is the case, I am pretty sure government spending on "R&D" dwarfs what private companies spend, at least it was when I was there.  The project linked below is enormous and takes a second approach to fusion.

Cost Skyrockets for United States' Share of ITER Fusion Project | Science | AAAS

$
25 billion for this and rising.  And quite a few think it's the wrong approach.  If it succeeds to the max, it MIGHT presage an actual commercial power reactor around 2075.

I also know that announcements of some success often are intended solely to gain funding from Congress.  So, I tend to be circumspect about such things.  Hopefully I'm wrong.


Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #6750 on: December 16, 2022, 11:43:53 AM »
Fusion breakthrough will lead to investments, but its use won’t come overnight  | The Hill
Fusion breakthrough will lead to investments, but its use won’t come overnight  | The Hill


utee94

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #6751 on: December 16, 2022, 12:23:11 PM »
And as long as China respects our IP, we are golden
They don't and they won't.

It'll be up to us, to segregate sensitive IP from them.  We've done a terrible job of this over the past 3 decades but some American corporations are finally starting to get it.

Cincydawg

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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #6753 on: December 16, 2022, 12:27:38 PM »
As far as "IP" is concerned, for one thing, a US patent only lasts 20 years from date of filing.  And, you'd need to file another application in China.  And, if granted, then you'd have to go after anyone you think is infringing .... in Chinese courts.  There are other kinds of IP of course, but folks often think of patents first.

One problem with projects with long development times, and I was involved in one, you file some early patent applications and then it takes 15 years to bring it to market, so you only get five years exclusivity anyway.  You can prolong this a bit with further patents (selection inventions) but they are necessarily more narrow.


utee94

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #6754 on: December 16, 2022, 12:32:38 PM »
As far as "IP" is concerned, for one thing, a US patent only lasts 20 years from date of filing.  And, you'd need to file another application in China.  And, if granted, then you'd have to go after anyone you think is infringing .... in Chinese courts.  There are other kinds of IP of course, but folks often think of patents first.

One problem with projects with long development times, and I was involved in one, you file some early patent applications and then it takes 15 years to bring it to market, so you only get five years exclusivity anyway.  You can prolong this a bit with further patents (selection inventions) but they are necessarily more narrow.



None of that really matters because the Chinese steal your inventions the moment they see them come across their assembly lines.  As I said, it's up to US corporations to protect against that, and the only real way to do so, is never manufacture anything in China.  At least, don't manufacture anything you want to keep secure.

FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #6755 on: December 16, 2022, 12:44:36 PM »
so, if it's manufactured in Mexico or Vietnam the Chinese can't get their grubby little paws on it?
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

utee94

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #6756 on: December 16, 2022, 12:48:09 PM »
so, if it's manufactured in Mexico or Vietnam the Chinese can't get their grubby little paws on it?
Depends. Chinese ODM Foxconn has a massive presence in Mexico.  So do several others.


Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #6757 on: December 16, 2022, 12:59:23 PM »
I'm not sure what critical aspects of a commercial fusion power plant could be kept secret.  Certainly, some details could be trade secrets, but foreign engineers would figure out ways to do things even if they aren't quite as good.

The basic design would be public knowledge.  The ITER project is an international consortium now.

Cincydawg

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utee94

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #6759 on: December 16, 2022, 01:37:32 PM »
I can think of numerous manufactured elements and processes that would be protected as patents or trade secrets.  Sure, someone can figure out other ways to do the same things.  And it is appropriate to force them to expend their resources in doing so.

FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #6760 on: December 16, 2022, 02:54:10 PM »
humankind is trying to save the ever loving planet here!

For God's sake!

can't we all work together for the common good???
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

FearlessF

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Re: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy
« Reply #6761 on: December 17, 2022, 09:43:59 AM »
This year, in spite of so many nations and large states swearing off fossil fuels — in spite of so many treaties and so many climate agreements — the world will consume more coal than it ever has in its history. According to the International Energy Agency, the world will burn more than 8 billion tons of coal in 2022 for the first time in human history. A major reason for coal's resurgence is the constricted supply and high price of natural gas, thanks to the war in Ukraine.

Natural gas emits only half as much carbon dioxide per unit of energy as coal does. This is why fracking was able to reduce U.S. energy sector carbon emissions by more than 23% between 2005 and 2020.

All of these facts together form a very important piece of context for all of the climate activism and the climate agreements and treaties: it has all been in vain.
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

 

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