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Topic: Weather, Climate, Environment, and Energy

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longhorn320

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4746 on: May 01, 2021, 11:57:13 AM »
I have a plan. Not sure how effective it will be. However, it will IMHO reduce emissions based on simple economics.

Carbon tax. Design it to be revenue neutral, offsetting against some reduction in taxes elsewhere (I prefer the payroll tax as they would both be regressive taxes). Set the rate high enough to be noticeable, but not so punitive that it will ruin the economy.

Let the market figure out how to reduce carbon usage to save money. 


youre making an assumption that an improvement in the US would solve the problem

why should the US pay tax when the rest of the world does not
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MaximumSam

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4747 on: May 01, 2021, 12:11:43 PM »
The carbon tax is probably simplest solution to the underlying problem, which is that the cost to the polluter are effectively zero and the costs of the pollution can be spread among everybody and pushed into the future where someone else pays it. 

longhorn320

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4748 on: May 01, 2021, 12:33:17 PM »
The carbon tax is probably simplest solution to the underlying problem, which is that the cost to the polluter are effectively zero and the costs of the pollution can be spread among everybody and pushed into the future where someone else pays it.
again the US accounts for only 15% of the world's carbon emissions so how is taxing the US population going to fix the problem
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MaximumSam

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4749 on: May 01, 2021, 12:38:36 PM »
again the US accounts for only 15% of the world's carbon emissions so how is taxing the US population going to fix the problem
That would be why a multinational plan would be preferable. Though the tax could in theory be assessed on any goods and services imported from China or anywhere else.

longhorn320

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4750 on: May 01, 2021, 01:31:21 PM »
That would be why a multinational plan would be preferable. Though the tax could in theory be assessed on any goods and services imported from China or anywhere else.
good luck with that

until the world pays I really dont see it as something the US would accept
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4751 on: May 01, 2021, 02:44:03 PM »
A carbon tax is a nice concept, but as noted, it's not nearly enough to address the real issue in any meaningful way.

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4752 on: May 01, 2021, 02:46:52 PM »
You can tax things, but that doesn't magically solve the problem, at all, you just make energy that we have more expensive.  It should increase the rate at which other energy sources can compete of course, but it cannot solve the problem, the solution doesn't exist outside nuclear.  The math is inexorable, we're kidding ourselves to think otherwise.  This MIGHT have been useful in say 2000.

The idea of a carbon tax used to reduce FICA taxes is nice though the reduction would be small, and the reduction in CO2 would be small.  You can't magically WISH wind and solar and EVs into existence over night.

MaximumSam

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4753 on: May 01, 2021, 05:04:29 PM »
A carbon tax is a nice concept, but as noted, it's not nearly enough to address the real issue in any meaningful way.
Eh, I have seen no evidence to suggest that. The issue is assessing costs to carbon in a way that makes its actual cost closer to reality, which gives incentive to reduce its use. Right now, the only motive to reduce its use is good feelings, which isn't particularly effective.

Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4754 on: May 01, 2021, 05:35:29 PM »
I have posted clear evidence it isn't enough.

MaximumSam

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4755 on: May 01, 2021, 05:48:29 PM »
I have posted clear evidence it isn't enough.
No you haven't. The problem with predictions of the future is they are typically wrong, and a random claim is not particularly convincing. In any event, focusing on temperature seems like the wrong focus. We can measure the carbon - the first step would be to try and slow the emission growth.

longhorn320

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4756 on: May 01, 2021, 08:17:48 PM »
No you haven't. The problem with predictions of the future is they are typically wrong, and a random claim is not particularly convincing. In any event, focusing on temperature seems like the wrong focus. We can measure the carbon - the first step would be to try and slow the emission growth.
The first step is to convince the other 85% of the world to slow emission growth
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Cincydawg

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4757 on: May 01, 2021, 09:03:40 PM »
Slowing emission growth is possible, and irrelevant.  The whole premise is based on predictions.

longhorn320

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4758 on: May 01, 2021, 09:13:24 PM »
Slowing emission growth is possible, and irrelevant.  The whole premise is based on predictions.
if everything is an elephant why bother
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

MaximumSam

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Re: Weather, Climate, and Environment
« Reply #4759 on: May 02, 2021, 06:48:54 AM »
Slowing emission growth is possible, and irrelevant.  The whole premise is based on predictions.
Well, definitely not irrelevant. It's probably the lynchpin to the entire thing. Measurements based on temperature are uncertain, because temperatures are affected by many things. The growth is carbon dioxide is easy to measure and relatively easy to figure out what is causing it. So efforts towards progress should be measured by that. It's sort of like drinking. Measuring your blood alcohol level is easy, while measuring your state of drunkenness a good deal harder.

 

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