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Topic: The Death of College Football - Realignment, NIL, Portal, Etc.

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FearlessF

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Re: UW and UO to Big Ten ~ Memorial Day?
« Reply #462 on: June 12, 2023, 10:54:48 AM »
continuous series are important IMO
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

FearlessF

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Re: UW and UO to Big Ten ~ Memorial Day?
« Reply #463 on: June 12, 2023, 10:56:17 AM »
11 teams cannot play a 9 game schedule.
oh yes they can
it's not perfect, but it's better than an 8-game schedule

did they play 8 back then? or 7?
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Cincydawg

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Re: UW and UO to Big Ten ~ Memorial Day?
« Reply #464 on: June 12, 2023, 11:06:27 AM »
I picked this quasi-random from 1960, 8 conference games played.  They would not play any Mississippi school ever.  Not much offense back then.


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Sep 17, 1960SatGeorgia TechKentuckySECW2313100W 1
[th]2[/th]


Sep 24, 1960Sat(13) Georgia Tech@RiceSWCW1613200W 2
[th]3[/th]


Oct 1, 1960Sat(10) Georgia Tech@FloridaSECL1718210L 1
[th]4[/th]


Oct 8, 1960SatGeorgia TechLSUSECW62310W 1
[th]5[/th]


Oct 15, 1960Sat(19) Georgia Tech@AuburnSECL79320L 1
[th]6[/th]


Oct 22, 1960SatGeorgia TechTulaneSECW146420W 1
[th]7[/th]


Oct 29, 1960SatGeorgia Tech@(15) DukeACCL06430L 1
[th]8[/th]


Nov 5, 1960SatGeorgia Tech(8) TennesseeSECW147530W 1
[th]9[/th]


Nov 12, 1960SatGeorgia TechAlabamaSECL1516540L 1
[th]10[/th]


Nov 26, 1960SatGeorgia Tech@GeorgiaSECL67550L 2











medinabuckeye1

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Re: UW and UO to Big Ten ~ Memorial Day?
« Reply #465 on: June 12, 2023, 11:07:17 AM »
I personally like the idea of junking the divisions and trying to have everybody play everybody as equally and frequently as they can.  As the Big Ten folks kept saying in the rollout, teams in the same conference should want to play each other.  The teams in the middle hate geographical divisions because you just drew a line right through the middle of conference where teams on the other side of the line barely play each other. Now you want set it up that they don't play at all.  No way.  No thank you.
I agree with this particularly the bolded part.  

An example from Ohio State:
The Buckeyes first played the USC Trojans in 1937.  From then through 2017 Ohio State and USC played 24 times (USC holds a 13-10-1 advantage).  Granted, eight of those were in bowl games (7 Rose 4-3 USC and 1 Cotton (1-0 tOSU) but they have played 16 times on campus.  Those 16 consist of:
  • H&H in 1937/38, 2-0 USC
  • H&H in 1941/42, 2-0 tOSU
  • H&Hx2 in 1946-1949, 2-1-1 tOSU
  • H&H in 1959/60 (My dad was a Marine stationed at Twentynine Palms California and a Buckeye fan and attended the 1959 game in SoCal), 1-1
  • H&H in 1963/4, 1-1
  • H&H in 1989/90, 2-0 USC
  • H&H in 2008/9, 2-0 USC

So Ohio State and USC aren't really "rivals" per se, but they have played somewhat regularly since before the Germans Bombed Pearl Harbor.  

Ohio State hasn't played UCLA quite as frequently but the Buckeyes have played the Bruins nine times including one RoseBowl (1-0 UCLA) and eight games on campus (4-3-1 tOSU) consisting of:
  • H&H in 1961/2, 1-1
  • H&H in 1975/6, 1-0-1 tOSU
  • H&H in 1979/80, 1-1
  • H&H in 1999/2001, 1-1

IMHO, it would be ridiculous and silly if USC and UCLA joining our league meant that Ohio State would actually play them LESS often.  

This is why I think we HAVE to go to pods.  If we stay at 16 I *THINK* a division-less structure with no pods would make sense.  With 16 teams each one could have:
  • Three permanent rivals, and
  • Play the other 12 teams every other year
However, once you go to 20 even a 10 game schedule doesn't really fix things.  There would be 10 teams in your division so with permanent divisions and 10 games you would still only have one cross-over per year.  It would take 10 years to play each of them and 20 years to complete a H&H with all 10.  That, IMHO, is way too infrequent.  

Thus, I think with 20 teams the obvious solution is pods of five where your annual schedule is:
  • The other four teams in your pod, and
  • All five teams in one of the other three pods on a rotating basis.  
In this way each team would play each other team every three years and complete a H&H with the 15 teams not in their pod every six years.  

Consider @847badgerfan a Wisconsin fan who lives in Florida.  If Miami and FSU were added then even with his Badgers likely not in a pod with the Hurricanes or Seminoles, his Badgers would still play in his adopted state once every three years.  Similarly, @betarhoalphadelta 's Boilermakers would play in Los Angeles once every three years.  


betarhoalphadelta

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Re: UW and UO to Big Ten ~ Memorial Day?
« Reply #466 on: June 12, 2023, 11:08:59 AM »
Similarly, @betarhoalphadelta 's Boilermakers would play in Los Angeles once every three years. 
Rotten trick. I finally cut ties with my fandom and now they'll be coming into my backyard? 

medinabuckeye1

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Re: UW and UO to Big Ten ~ Memorial Day?
« Reply #467 on: June 12, 2023, 11:14:29 AM »
oh yes they can
it's not perfect, but it's better than an 8-game schedule

did they play 8 back then? or 7?
He is making a mathematical point.  

11 teams times nine games equals 99 which is not divisible by two and each game has to have two teams.  Thus, 11 teams cannot play an 11 game schedule.  The closest they could come is to either:
  • Play 98 games which is eight for one team and 9 for each of the other 10 teams or
  • Play 100 games which is nine for 10 teams and 10 for one team. 


Cincydawg

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Re: UW and UO to Big Ten ~ Memorial Day?
« Reply #468 on: June 12, 2023, 11:18:12 AM »
I was not told there would be a test.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: UW and UO to Big Ten ~ Memorial Day?
« Reply #469 on: June 12, 2023, 11:22:26 AM »
USC joining has me considering Ohio State's record against them.  It has been a back and forth affair:

  • USC won the first two on the campuses in the 1930's:  Both were close, 13-12 in SoCal and 14-7 in Columbus.  
  • Ohio State dominated in the 1940's, 1950's, 1960's, and early 1970's, compiling a 9-4-1 record from 1941-1974.  
  • USC dominated starting on January 1, 1975 (1974 season Rose Bowl).  The Trojans won seven straight between January 1, 1974 and December 29, 2017.  
  • Ohio State won the most recent meeting.  


FearlessF

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Re: UW and UO to Big Ten ~ Memorial Day?
« Reply #470 on: June 12, 2023, 11:34:36 AM »
He is making a mathematical point. 

11 teams times nine games equals 99 which is not divisible by two and each game has to have two teams.  Thus, 11 teams cannot play an 11 game schedule.  The closest they could come is to either:
  • Play 98 games which is eight for one team and 9 for each of the other 10 teams or
  • Play 100 games which is nine for 10 teams and 10 for one team.


I clearly stated it would not be perfect
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

FearlessF

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Re: UW and UO to Big Ten ~ Memorial Day?
« Reply #471 on: June 12, 2023, 11:48:33 AM »
IMHO, it would be ridiculous and silly if USC and UCLA joining our league meant that Ohio State would actually play them LESS often. 
4 H&H games since 64 isn't much.

it IS ridiculous and silly that teams in one division of a conference CAN'T play teams from the other division unless they are on the "conference" schedule.
If Colorado backed out of their 09/07/2024 game in Lincoln because they switched conferences or whatever reason, why is it seemingly against the rule for the UNL AD to call the tOSU AD or Maryland AD and schedule a game for that date?
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

medinabuckeye1

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Re: UW and UO to Big Ten ~ Memorial Day?
« Reply #472 on: June 12, 2023, 11:55:57 AM »
I know that @847badgerfan and others advocate for a 10-game league schedule, here is why I oppose it:

As a practical/financial matter it seems that most of our schools want seven home games.  With an eight game league schedule (4H, 4A) this leaves room for one OOC road game per year.  With a nine game league schedule (9H, 9A every two years) this leaves room for one OOC road game every two years.  With a 10-game league schedule (5H, 5A) you can only get seven home games by scheduling two home OOC games every year which, in practical terms, means two OOC cupcakes every year.  Thus, I think that a 10-game league schedule would, as a practical matter, be the death of marquee OOC games.  

Personally, I enjoy those.  Using my Buckeyes as an example, they have future OOC games scheduled out through 2036 and the marquee games of interest are:

  • at Notre Dame in 2023 (second half of a H&H)
  • Texas H&H in 2025/6
  • Bama H&H in 2027/8
  • UGA H&H in 2030/31
  • Oregon H&H in 2032/33
  • Boston College in 2035/36
Working backwards, the Buckeyes played marquee OOC games against:
  • vs Notre Dame in 2022 (first half of the aforementioned H&H)
  • vs Oregon in 2021 (was supposed to be half of an H&H but the road game got cancelled due to COVID)
  • Oklahoma H&H in 2016/17
  • VaTech H&H in 2014/15
  • Miami, FL H&H 2010/11
  • USC H&H 2008/09
  • Washington H&H in 2003/7
  • Texas H&H in 2005/6
  • UCLA H&H in 1999/2001
  • Zona H&H in 1997/2000

I do not want to see these types of games disappear.  


I know there is an argument that it is mostly a competitive thing and teams (like tOSU) don't want to have too many tough games but with an expanded playoff that will not be as important.  True, but it is also a financial issue.  Teams like Ohio State make a lot of coin by selling 100k+ tickets to home games.  

medinabuckeye1

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Re: UW and UO to Big Ten ~ Memorial Day?
« Reply #473 on: June 12, 2023, 12:03:37 PM »
4 H&H games since 64 isn't much.
Maybe not but it is roughly one H&H every 20 years.  Also, the Buckeyes and Trojans met eight times in RoseBowls.  

As non-divisional conferencemates it IS possible that tOSU and USC would meet in the B1GCG of course but that would almost certainly be no more likely than RB meetings were the old way so the Buckeyes would still end up playing USC less often as conferencemates than they did when they were in different conferences and I still think that is silly.  
it IS ridiculous and silly that teams in one division of a conference CAN'T play teams from the other division unless they are on the "conference" schedule.
If Colorado backed out of their 09/07/2024 game in Lincoln because they switched conferences or whatever reason, why is it seemingly against the rule for the UNL AD to call the tOSU AD or Maryland AD and schedule a game for that date?
I do NOT think there is such a rule.  I can't think of the specific example but I know that some conferencemates have played non-conference BB games against each other and I would *THINK* that they could do the same thing in Football.  

Cincydawg

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Re: UW and UO to Big Ten ~ Memorial Day?
« Reply #474 on: June 12, 2023, 12:06:03 PM »
I'd love everyone to play two P5 teams OOC each year.

FearlessF

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Re: UW and UO to Big Ten ~ Memorial Day?
« Reply #475 on: June 12, 2023, 12:06:48 PM »
it must be an unwritten rule
I don't remember it ever happening
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

 

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