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Topic: USC fires Clay Helton

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Cincydawg

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Re: USC fires Clay Helton
« Reply #42 on: September 15, 2021, 10:18:33 AM »
UM is the coach in my view who had success everywhere (we'll see about the League).

Saban may be more of a high level manager who attracts good assistants and usually lets them do the job.  (I know he yells at them.)

I think the Bear was akin to that too.

This recent history of hiring and firing is not conducive.

MrNubbz

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Re: USC fires Clay Helton
« Reply #43 on: September 15, 2021, 10:46:21 AM »
Y a Schnellenberger/Johnson caught lightning in a bottle @ Miami as they weren't a blue blood but sat right smack dab in fertile recruiting fields.And the kids didn't have to go far
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FearlessF

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Re: USC fires Clay Helton
« Reply #44 on: September 15, 2021, 10:49:47 AM »
recruiters

not gameday coaches
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: USC fires Clay Helton
« Reply #45 on: September 15, 2021, 12:53:31 PM »
True, but I still think a highly successful USC would bring out the front-running bandwagoners in droves once again. 
Yes, somewhat... But it will be muted as long as the Rams and the Raiders are halfway decent--and both appear to be for the moment. 

Then there's the Chargers... They're like the Clippers. Even when they're good, nobody cares. 

Cincydawg

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Re: USC fires Clay Helton
« Reply #46 on: September 15, 2021, 01:35:29 PM »
I've often asked how long before a Blue Blood becomes ordinary.  I don't know the answer of course, I have suggested it's about "five mediocre to bad coaching hires in a row".  Now, I'm assuming an "Urban Meyer" type (dime a dozen) could step in and revive said program, maybe, after five bad hires.  Maybe.

The Vols are not looking very good obviously, they won't fire their coach this year (probably, without cause), but they are clearly on thin ice.

bayareabadger

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Re: USC fires Clay Helton
« Reply #47 on: September 15, 2021, 02:03:29 PM »
I would be happy af if Harbaugh left and Hart took over. Big believer in Mike Hart. I don't think it's a coincidence at all that these RB's/OL look better than they ever have under Harbaugh. Mike Hart's IQ for the game is next level. It had to be- he was very limited as an athlete. His vision, patience, smarts, and toughness made him one of the greatest RB's to ever play at Michigan. Despite being 5'8, 195 pounds and running a 4.7.

Harbaugh is a booger eating autistic retard weirdo with CTE. He can fk right off.
Because I want to make sure I'm reading it right, you mean as a full-time replacement or interim?

I suppose I guessed Michigan would go with a guy who had a less impressive resume than Harbs, but that threadbare a resume would be an interesting choice. 

bayareabadger

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Re: USC fires Clay Helton
« Reply #48 on: September 15, 2021, 02:07:29 PM »
Michigan State too?

I doubt that. A coach like Saban needs to be at a blue blood to have success, in my opinion.
It's weird to look back at his MSU run. On the one hand, it took five years to get them pretty good. On the other, do we think he would've just dropped back to 7-5 if he stayed. Or would he have kept going?

medinabuckeye1

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Re: USC fires Clay Helton
« Reply #49 on: September 15, 2021, 02:45:33 PM »
USC might have a self-inflated view of itself- but most blueblood/helmet programs do.
I'd say all rather than most.  Most fans look at their program's best era and think "we should be there" but obviously all programs can't be at their best at the same time because there are only so many NC's to go around.  

847badgerfan

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Re: USC fires Clay Helton
« Reply #50 on: September 15, 2021, 03:03:30 PM »
It's weird to look back at his MSU run. On the one hand, it took five years to get them pretty good. On the other, do we think he would've just dropped back to 7-5 if he stayed. Or would he have kept going?
I don't think he would have kept going. Can't recruit to MSU like you can to LSU and Bama.
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: USC fires Clay Helton
« Reply #51 on: September 15, 2021, 03:09:36 PM »
SC isn't the diamond in the rough it use to be IMO
I think it is.  @ELA makes a compelling case by demonstrating that since John Robinson left after the 1982 season they've had 10 coaches and only one had the program at an elite level but I just think that is mostly bad luck.  PC had that program recruiting at an unbelievable level.  Another high-end coach could do that again.  

Another thing to consider is that PC's Achilles heel was random ridiculous upsets:
  • 2003:  They went 12-1 and outscored their opponents 534-239 but somehow they lost to a Cal team that finished barely over .500.  That loss cost them a shot at the BCSNCG.  
  • 2006:  They went 11-2 and outscored their opponents 396-197 but somehow lost to a UCLA team that finished barely over .500.  But for that loss they'd have faced tOSU in the BCSNCG instead of Florida.  
  • 2007:  They went 11-2 and outscored their opponents 424-208 but somehow lost to a Stanford team that finished 4-8.  
  • 2008:  They went 12-1 and outscored their opponents 488-117 but lost to an OrSU team that finished 9-4.  In OrSU's other games against teams that finished with double-digit wins they got blown out by PSU and Ore and lost to Utah.  

These upsets wouldn't have cost them so much if the CFP had been implemented earlier.  In PC's nine seasons their final BCS rankings were:
  • nr in 2001
  • #4 in 2002, quite possibly the best team at the end of the year and might have taken Miami and the tOSU/UGA winner in a hypothetical CFP.  
  • #3 in 2003, probably the best team but held back by that Cal upset.  But for their upset loss to Cal they'd have been #1 and faced OU in the BCSNCG.  In a hypothetical CFP they'd have played #2 LSU then the OU/M winner.  
  • #1 in 2004, won NC.  
  • #1 in 2005, lost BCSNCG to Texas.  
  • #5 in 2006 AFTER their upset loss to UCLA.  But for their upset loss to UCLA they'd have been #2 and faced tOSU in the BCSNCG.  
  • #7 in 2007.  This was an unusual year in which after 11-1 tOSU at #1 the next six teams had two losses each.  But for their upset loss to Stanford they'd have played tOSU in the BCSNCG.  
  • #5 in 2008.  But for their upset loss to OrSU they'd have been 12-0 and ranked #1 and they'd have played Oklahoma in the BCSNCG.  
  • #24 in 2009, this was a four-loss year.  


Those four upsets cost them four BCSNCG appearances and in each of the four the team that they would have played (OU in 2003 and 2008, tOSU in 2006 and 2007) lost the actual BCSNCG.  

medinabuckeye1

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Re: USC fires Clay Helton
« Reply #52 on: September 15, 2021, 03:10:48 PM »
Texas is pretty much in the same boat as Nebraska already, and Oklahoma will be in that boat as well once they join the SEC.
I disagree.  Texas still recruits at a very high level so a great coach could win almost instantly while Nebraska does not so it would take time to build up a program that could measure up against the best.  

Cincydawg

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Re: USC fires Clay Helton
« Reply #53 on: September 15, 2021, 04:19:00 PM »
Their last elite year was 2008, right (USC)?  That's a long time in football years.  I agree Texas is a good coach away from being pretty good and soonish, maybe elite.


Mdot21

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Re: USC fires Clay Helton
« Reply #54 on: September 15, 2021, 09:43:21 PM »
Because I want to make sure I'm reading it right, you mean as a full-time replacement or interim?

I suppose I guessed Michigan would go with a guy who had a less impressive resume than Harbs, but that threadbare a resume would be an interesting choice.
Look I understand it's a reach. I'm just done with the booger eater autistic weirdo, and I don't think they are going to be able to find a more proven "name" or "hot" coach than Harbaugh. 

I'd freaking roll the dice on Hart. Call it a hunch. I'm just not betting against that guy, ever. He'll be successful at whatever he does and he'll figure it out.

Mdot21

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Re: USC fires Clay Helton
« Reply #55 on: September 15, 2021, 09:47:48 PM »
recruiters

not gameday coaches
not sure I agree on that. 

Ron Zook recruited his ass off at Florida, but he absolutely sucked as an actual coach. 

Urban Meyer walks right in and year 2 he wins a title with mostly Zook's guys.

You have to be able to recruit, develop, AND coach. Can't just be good at 1. Have to be good at at least 2 of those. And when you're great at all 3 you get an Urban Meyer or Nick Saban.

 

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