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Topic: Urban to Tejas?

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Mdot21

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Re: Urban to Tejas?
« Reply #126 on: November 29, 2020, 07:19:56 PM »
Did Meyer turn him into that, or merely allow his natural talents to progress as they would have anyway?
Urban and that system he brought turned him into that. Alex Smith literally did nothing at Utah before Urban got there in 2003.

Cincydawg

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Re: Urban to Tejas?
« Reply #127 on: November 29, 2020, 07:48:51 PM »
I merely note at times a QB "gets it" when he could have done so even without a coach.

I actually think Meyer had a large part in that in this case.

Kris60

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Re: Urban to Tejas?
« Reply #128 on: November 29, 2020, 08:03:50 PM »
Urban and that system he brought turned him into that. Alex Smith literally did nothing at Utah before Urban got there in 2003.
In fairness, Smith was a freshman who didn’t play before Meyer got there.  It wasn’t like Smith got a shot and was doing nothing with it prior to Meyer getting there.  He had literally done nothing because he had almost literally not played.  He threw four passes his freshman season.

bayareabadger

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Re: Urban to Tejas?
« Reply #129 on: November 29, 2020, 08:15:48 PM »
Urban and that system he brought turned him into that. Alex Smith literally did nothing at Utah before Urban got there in 2003.
That's true, but he was also a true freshman. So that probably doesn't mean much. 

bayareabadger

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Re: Urban to Tejas?
« Reply #130 on: November 29, 2020, 08:30:14 PM »
Utah was in the grab-bag bin of G5 teams back then.  Colorado State had finished the year ranked in 2000, BYU, Toledo, Louisville, TCU....even BG the same year UM went to Utah and immediately had it in the rankings his first year.  THAT was something special - your new stop ends the year ranked AND your previous one does, too. 

Southern Miss, Air Force, Tulane...all these other programs had been ranked in the 6-8 years leading up to UM going to Utah.  Sorry, I don't see going back to 1994 for the ONLY time Utah had EVER ended the year ranked for some kind of valid support for the Utes program.   

That "future NFL QB" was a 2-star nothing recruit.  No, he didn't slip through any cracks, he had obscenely great stats and tons of recruiters in the stands to watch his teammate, Reggie Bush.  UM made Smith into a future NFL QB. 
He went to a top-9 mid-major and made it very good with the talent on hand. That's a very good job, but a slam dunk it does not make.

He went to BG and quickly turned a team that finished in fourth place in 1998 into a team that finished in fourth place TWICE (he did beat some mediocre mis-majors, which is good). And you're right BG got notably better when he left. Is that a slam dunk resume? I guess? (The coach before him took a 3-5-2 team and went 21-3 his first two years. He could've been a slam dunk too, give or take some personal issues)

Again, his soft skills came in, and something he never had tested in those two places, recruiting, turned out to be something he was better at than most everyone else. There was a bit of projection and it worked out.

(As for Alex Smith, we can go in circles about that. Urban "made" him an NFL QB, but when he got one of the best pro-style QB recruits in the country, he couldn't "make" him into an NFL draft pick? Let me put it another way. Smith has started 164 NFL games because Urban was just so super, but maybe he had something in his potential that was somewhat special. Urban coached what? Seven other guys, and the best NFL starter is either Haskins or Tebow?)
« Last Edit: November 29, 2020, 08:39:16 PM by bayareabadger »

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Urban to Tejas?
« Reply #131 on: November 29, 2020, 09:41:57 PM »
A top-9 mid-major?

That honestly made me laugh out loud.  I'll concede, Utah was the 9th-best G5 program in 2003.  That's adorable.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Urban to Tejas?
« Reply #132 on: November 29, 2020, 09:44:08 PM »
As for Alex Smith.  
A - there is so much random chance in how a player's NFL career turns out that it's probably not worth a conversation, but 
B - if you insist, here are the facts:  Alex Smith was a nobody, 2* recruit.  He happened to have been coached by the 2nd? best HC of the past 50 years.  He then became a #1 pick in the draft.   You can try to make the argument that it's a coincidence, but good luck with that.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

FearlessF

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Re: Urban to Tejas?
« Reply #133 on: November 29, 2020, 09:58:25 PM »
question

did Urban develop a 2 star QB or did he develop the entire team around him? or both or neither?
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bayareabadger

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Re: Urban to Tejas?
« Reply #134 on: November 29, 2020, 10:11:39 PM »
A top-9 mid-major?

That honestly made me laugh out loud.  I'll concede, Utah was the 9th-best G5 program in 2003.  That's adorable.
Yep, took over a good-ish mid-major and made it a team that could sweep a top-70 schedule. The work of a very good coach. But the dude didn't take over a place that actually sucked.

(For reference, he took over a team that was 38th in the country in winning percentage during the previous coaches tenure. Not unreal, but about at the 66th percentile, which is to say, a perfectly fine program. In the modern context, it would be like going to Air Force or Western Kentucky and sweeping the conference)
« Last Edit: November 29, 2020, 10:50:00 PM by bayareabadger »

bayareabadger

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Re: Urban to Tejas?
« Reply #135 on: November 29, 2020, 10:25:54 PM »
As for Alex Smith. 
A - there is so much random chance in how a player's NFL career turns out that it's probably not worth a conversation, but
B - if you insist, here are the facts:  Alex Smith was a nobody, 2* recruit.  He happened to have been coached by the 2nd? best HC of the past 50 years.  He then became a #1 pick in the draft.  You can try to make the argument that it's a coincidence, but good luck with that.
So the second best coach in the past 50 years can take nobody 2-stars and make them No. 1 picks, but he can get four- and five-stars and have them go undrafted? It's a small, selective datapoint. A nice one, but just that. 

Terry Hoeppner turned Roethlisberger into a No. 11 pick. Kingsberry turned a guy with only a few offers into what we see now. But Terry and Kliff are what they are. The kid matters, the circumstances matter. Shoot, if Aaron Rogers had a bit less backbone, Smith isn't the first pick and might not be the 25th pick (that's a good story). 

Everything gets cast with the context of what comes after. Urban was a very good coaching prospect, but there were things that fell in his favor and a few questions (as said, one of his best skills wasn't even on display before UF). He was less a slam dunk hire than Harbs, and with that in mind, we can deduce there are no real slam dunk hires. There are ones with better resumes, better soft skills, better results when they arrive. 

Shoot, UF's coach now looks pretty good, and he was a big-game loser who seems to piss off everyone who meets him. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Urban to Tejas?
« Reply #136 on: November 29, 2020, 11:15:32 PM »
Damn right.

utee94

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Re: Urban to Tejas?
« Reply #137 on: November 29, 2020, 11:30:46 PM »

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Urban to Tejas?
« Reply #138 on: November 29, 2020, 11:48:37 PM »

Kris60

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Re: Urban to Tejas?
« Reply #139 on: November 30, 2020, 02:55:02 AM »
So the second best coach in the past 50 years can take nobody 2-stars and make them No. 1 picks, but he can get four- and five-stars and have them go undrafted? It's a small, selective datapoint. A nice one, but just that.

Terry Hoeppner turned Roethlisberger into a No. 11 pick. Kingsberry turned a guy with only a few offers into what we see now. But Terry and Kliff are what they are. The kid matters, the circumstances matter. Shoot, if Aaron Rogers had a bit less backbone, Smith isn't the first pick and might not be the 25th pick (that's a good story).

Everything gets cast with the context of what comes after. Urban was a very good coaching prospect, but there were things that fell in his favor and a few questions (as said, one of his best skills wasn't even on display before UF). He was less a slam dunk hire than Harbs, and with that in mind, we can deduce there are no real slam dunk hires. There are ones with better resumes, better soft skills, better results when they arrive.

Shoot, UF's coach now looks pretty good, and he was a big-game loser who seems to piss off everyone who meets him.
Yep, I agree with all of that.  I don’t think anyone is denying Meyer helped Smith develop into a number 1 pick, but I think Meyer benefitted from Smith being there as well.  Smith’s credentials, or lack thereof, before UM arrived in Utah aren’t all that unique.  It would make him about the millionth player who was lightly recruited out of HS that ended up being a really good college/pro player.

 

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