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Topic: UCLA and USC

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utee94

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Re: UCLA and USC
« Reply #462 on: July 13, 2022, 02:18:46 PM »
Well, I honestly think the need to avoid the possibility of three undefeated teams is a more pressing concern. As a practical matter the only way to avoid that in a league of 20 teams is to have two groups each of which all play each other.

On your point about schedules I'm more concerned about it than you are. As league sizes increase the percentage of teams played decreases which necessarily increases the variability of league schedules.

Assuming nine league games:
  • With 10 members you play 100% and miss 0%
  • With 12 members you play 82% and miss 18%
  • With 14 members you play 69% and miss 31%
  • With 16 members you play 60% and miss 40%
  • With 18 members you play 53% and miss 47%
  • With 20 members you play 47% and miss 53%

With 18 members you * COULD* end up with two teams that didn't play each other and have only one common opponent. Obviously that is a worst case scenario but that would make it quite difficult to compare the teams. I think that with 16or more teams you really need divisions.



I'm more interested in interesting scheduling than in remote mathematical possibilities.

But I also don't particularly care about having an 8-4 team make it into a post-season playoff and win the whole thing.  If it happens, it happens, and the playoff teams that lose and allow it to happen, have only themselves to blame.

That's just not the type of thing I'm ever really concerned about.

FearlessF

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Re: UCLA and USC
« Reply #463 on: July 13, 2022, 02:40:54 PM »
Kick out Maryland and Rutgers?
please - just do the right thing for once
for the Big Ten Commish, this would show some balls
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

utee94

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Re: UCLA and USC
« Reply #464 on: July 13, 2022, 02:45:37 PM »
please - just do the right thing for once
for the Big Ten Commish, this would show some balls

I highly doubt he wants any part of the legal shitstorm that would ensue.  Are there any provisions for such a thing in the B1G bylaws (or any other conference's)?  I've never heard of any such thing that's for sure.


FearlessF

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Re: UCLA and USC
« Reply #465 on: July 13, 2022, 02:49:40 PM »
legal shitstorm???

Lawyers LOVE those

I'm guessing there are provisions

plenty of schools have been kicked out of conferences in past history

not many lately, but it's about time
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

utee94

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Re: UCLA and USC
« Reply #466 on: July 13, 2022, 02:53:13 PM »
legal shitstorm???

Lawyers LOVE those

I'm guessing there are provisions

plenty of schools have been kicked out of conferences in past history

not many lately, but it's about time

Have they?  I'm not so sure.  If you're gonna make that claim, you're gonna have to back it up.  Because I've seen scores of examples in history of a team voluntarily leaving a conference, but I can't recall a time when a team was kicked out of a conference.

And as far as provisions?  I'm guessing there AREN'T any, otherwise every hack internet writer in the country would be dredging them up.  And yet, silence on that front.


medinabuckeye1

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Re: UCLA and USC
« Reply #467 on: July 13, 2022, 02:55:45 PM »
Have they?  I'm not so sure.  If you're gonna make that claim, you're gonna have to back it up.  Because I've seen scores of examples in history of a team voluntarily leaving a conference, but I can't recall a time when a team was kicked out of a conference.

And as far as provisions?  I'm guessing there AREN'T any, otherwise every hack internet writer in the country would be dredging them up.  And yet, silence on that front.
Didn't the Big East kick Temple out?

ELA

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Re: UCLA and USC
« Reply #468 on: July 13, 2022, 03:07:25 PM »
Yes, but, and I could be making this up, there were some rules regarding attendance because Temple was a football-only member. So Temple didn't have a ton of recourse

MrNubbz

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Re: UCLA and USC
« Reply #469 on: July 13, 2022, 03:10:32 PM »


Amen!

The older we get, the more often Utee and I agree on things

never woulda thunk it 20 years ago



Have they?  I'm not so sure.  If you're gonna make that claim, you're gonna have to back it up.  Because I've seen scores of examples in history of a team voluntarily leaving a conference, but I can't recall a time when a team was kicked out of a conference.
Spoke too soon FF
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

utee94

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Re: UCLA and USC
« Reply #470 on: July 13, 2022, 03:17:56 PM »
Didn't the Big East kick Temple out?
Yes, but, and I could be making this up, there were some rules regarding attendance because Temple was a football-only member. So Temple didn't have a ton of recourse
Well there's one example, anyway.  Are there any others?

And again, there would have to be some provisions in the B1G bylaws to do this.  And if there were, I'm pretty sure we'd have seen them.

Look at it this way-- say the B1G were to kick out Rutgers.  After USC and UCLA are added, the B1G is set to pay out something like $100M/year.  And Rutgers would lose nearly all of that, because no matter where they land, it's not going to be anywhere close to that.  So over ten years, that's $1Billion in potential estimated liquidated damages that the B1G is going to cause as a loss to Rutgers.

You think they're not going to sue the ever-loving begeezus out of the B1G for that?  A Billion freaking dollars?  Fugeddabout it.

Without some provisions, like an attendance clause or something, to legitimately remove them, that would be an unprecedented legal shitstorm in college athletics history.



FearlessF

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Re: UCLA and USC
« Reply #471 on: July 13, 2022, 07:20:31 PM »
well, it's happened recently at the DIII level

Division III football powerhouse St. Thomas is having to leave the Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference.

The MIAC announced Wednesday that St. Thomas would “involuntarily” leave the conference no later than 2021. St. Thomas has been the conference’s dominant football program in recent years and that’s rubbed fellow conference members the wrong way enough that a push to get rid of St. Thomas had started.

That push was apparently successful.

“After extensive membership discussions, the University of St. Thomas will be involuntarily removed from membership in the Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference (MIAC),” the conference’s statement said. “The MIAC Presidents' Council cites athletic competitive parity in the conference as a primary concern. St. Thomas will begin a multi-year transition immediately and meanwhile is eligible to compete as a full member of the MIAC through the end of spring 2021.”

Any vote to get rid of St. Thomas needed support from nine of the 13 schools in the conference.

“St. Thomas expended tremendous effort to remain in the MIAC and stabilize the conference,” school president Dr. Julie Sullivan said. “However, the presidents came to a consensus that the conference itself would cease to exist in its current form if St. Thomas remained. The primary concern cited by the other MIAC presidents is the lack of competitive parity within the conference, across many sports. They stated that St. Thomas has not violated any MIAC or NCAA rules and leaves the conference in good standing.

“While this decision is extremely disappointing, we will continue to prioritize the welfare and overall experience of our student-athletes. They embrace and represent both academic and athletic excellence and are important contributors to our university’s culture. Additionally, our coaches share the values of advancing comprehensive excellence and are among the best in the country.”
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

utee94

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Re: UCLA and USC
« Reply #472 on: July 13, 2022, 07:22:48 PM »
I mean, you understand why D3 is absolutely nothing like D1-A FBS.  It's, like, literally, a BILLION times different. 

FearlessF

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Re: UCLA and USC
« Reply #473 on: July 13, 2022, 07:23:44 PM »
I just assumed that the Big Ten with all the history and arrogance had probably sometime in it's existence had tossed a member for something unwanted

or the SEC or SWAC of Big 6 or someone

maybe it's never happened in the history of P5 conferences

seems a bit odd

I'd still guess that the lawyers that work on those types of memberships have clauses to boot a program for various reasons and in this day and age I could see monetary value as a reason 
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

FearlessF

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Re: UCLA and USC
« Reply #474 on: July 13, 2022, 07:24:52 PM »
I mean, you understand why D3 is absolutely nothing like D1-A FBS.  It's, like, literally, a BILLION times different.
I'll agree with absolutely nothing like, but literally a billion times different is going too far
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

utee94

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Re: UCLA and USC
« Reply #475 on: July 13, 2022, 07:25:22 PM »
I just assumed that the Big Ten with all the history and arrogance had probably sometime in it's existence had tossed a member for something unwanted

or the SEC or SWAC of Big 6 or someone

maybe it's never happened in the history of P5 conferences

seems a bit odd

I'd still guess that the lawyers that work on those types of memberships have clauses to boot a program for various reasons and in this day and age I could see monetary value as a reason


I'd guess they DON'T because it's not something that ever happens, for many obvious reasons.  These days, a BILLION obvious reasons.

If there were language in the bylaws for expelling members, I'm pretty sure every internet hack on planet Earth would have published it by now.

 

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