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Topic: Travels and Impressions

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Cincydawg

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Re: Travels and Impressions
« Reply #336 on: June 27, 2023, 10:21:02 AM »
We have a red eye back from SD after Christmas, I think it's January 1.  We're doing Hawaii and then SD where the grandkids are now.

Cincydawg

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Re: Travels and Impressions
« Reply #337 on: June 27, 2023, 10:26:47 AM »
Dallas and Houston are exploding, Atlanta is growing fast.  Four of the top ten are declining.  Phoenix is growing fast.



OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Travels and Impressions
« Reply #338 on: June 27, 2023, 02:56:33 PM »


It could make more sense, maybe, to build up an airport in some nearby city, Columbus/Chattanooga/Augusta/Bham.  Or build one designed for changing planes entirely somewhere in the SE.  I dunno if that would be practicable.  It would be in the sticks.  There is a civil aviation airport in Dekalb now that handles private jets, but again, no room around it.  I don't think there is a viable solution really.
Augusta would make sense, as it's halfway between Atlanta and Charlotte.  
Plus it helps out with the Masters, UGA, and access to the S.Carolina coast and Savannah.  



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847badgerfan

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Re: Travels and Impressions
« Reply #339 on: June 27, 2023, 03:08:10 PM »
Augusta would make sense, as it's halfway between Atlanta and Charlotte. 
Plus it helps out with the Masters, UGA, and access to the S.Carolina coast and Savannah. 




Good point, but you can get to DC, Charlotte, Dallas and Atlanta through Augusta now. AA and Delta in in there. Maybe 20 flights per day if I remember right.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Travels and Impressions
« Reply #340 on: June 27, 2023, 03:28:26 PM »
I would study the concept of building an airport in the middle of nowhere, maybe between Macon and Savannah, and link it to ATL with HSR.  The idea would be to use it for changing planes and little else.  This probably doesn't work though.

FearlessF

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Re: Travels and Impressions
« Reply #341 on: June 27, 2023, 04:10:41 PM »
HSR with what time invested?

more than 10 minutes?
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Travels and Impressions
« Reply #342 on: June 27, 2023, 04:42:34 PM »
I would study the concept of building an airport in the middle of nowhere, maybe between Macon and Savannah, and link it to ATL with HSR.  The idea would be to use it for changing planes and little else.  This probably doesn't work though.
It's interesting, but I see some issues...

  • Workers. If it's in the middle of nowhere, who works there? 
  • Supply chain. You're going to need a bunch of goods, food, alcohol that all needs to be available. Easier [or hopefully cheaper] to do that near a city.
  • Hotels and other infrastructure. What if a bunch of flights get cancelled due to weather and people need someplace to go?
  • Airlines -- to make it work you need airlines who are going to make it a "hub". Which can work, but it might be a chicken/egg issue. 

What makes more sense IMHO is to pick a potentially underserved 2nd-tier (or even 3rd-tier) city and work to really expand that airport and turn it into a hub for several airlines...

...but I suspect that's somewhat already happening/happened. Charlotte isn't a huge city; it became a hub. SLC isn't a huge city; it's a hub. Cincinnati isn't a huge city; it's a hub.

So think about places that could fit. I'd argue you want it to be centrally located in the US. You want it to be big ENOUGH that it's going to generate some of its own traffic, i.e. Cedar Rapids International Airport (where I've flown into and got stuck lol) wouldn't qualify. 

Kansas City or Oklahoma City would be good candidates in my opinion. Nashville or Louisville could work (a bit more Eastern), maybe Albuquerque (a bit more West). They're all far enough south that they probably wouldn't get crushed by winter weather.


But I'm not sure that the economics nor the logistics work out to just shove a major airport in the middle of nowhere. 

FearlessF

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Re: Travels and Impressions
« Reply #343 on: June 27, 2023, 04:46:30 PM »
  • Hotels and other infrastructure. What if a bunch of flights get cancelled due to weather and people need someplace to go?
if it's a 10 minute HSR ride, they go back to the city.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Travels and Impressions
« Reply #344 on: June 27, 2023, 04:55:16 PM »
if it's a 10 minute HSR ride, they go back to the city.
If it's a 10 minute HSR ride, it's not the middle of nowhere. 

And who pays for the HSR ride? If the employees have to pay for it, you'd better pay them enough to make it worth their while. If they get "free" ridership, well then it's paid for the same way (by the airport) but without filtering through the employee pockets. Either way it's an added cost. 

The Stockholm airport is about 30 miles north of the city center. Their rail from the airport to the city center takes 18 minutes, and maxes out at 200 kph (about 125 mph). 

And of course for a commuting worker, they need to get to wherever that HSR terminus is--which is probably not within easy distance of where they live if they're making an airport worker's salary. 


Cincydawg

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Re: Travels and Impressions
« Reply #345 on: June 28, 2023, 07:11:26 AM »
My notion is pretty flawed, as you note above, and it wouldn't be any 10 minute HSR ride.  It takes 10 minutes to ride the Plane Train from one end of the current airport to the other.  I was figuring 100 miles SE of Atlanta.  Cancellations would be a major issue, missed flights, etc.  The original proposal would have been about 60 miles north of Atlanta near Dawsonville.  I'm not seeing anything that would really work.  The hub and spoke model means airports in places like Augusta and Columbus would stay minor.

They spent $1.4 billion on the International Terminal with only 12 gates, it's astounding really.  And now it's jammed at the end of the day, not in the AM apparently.

847badgerfan

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Re: Travels and Impressions
« Reply #346 on: June 28, 2023, 07:59:47 AM »
It's interesting, but I see some issues...

  • Workers. If it's in the middle of nowhere, who works there?
  • Supply chain. You're going to need a bunch of goods, food, alcohol that all needs to be available. Easier [or hopefully cheaper] to do that near a city.
  • Hotels and other infrastructure. What if a bunch of flights get cancelled due to weather and people need someplace to go?
  • Airlines -- to make it work you need airlines who are going to make it a "hub". Which can work, but it might be a chicken/egg issue.

What makes more sense IMHO is to pick a potentially underserved 2nd-tier (or even 3rd-tier) city and work to really expand that airport and turn it into a hub for several airlines...

...but I suspect that's somewhat already happening/happened. Charlotte isn't a huge city; it became a hub. SLC isn't a huge city; it's a hub. Cincinnati isn't a huge city; it's a hub.

So think about places that could fit. I'd argue you want it to be centrally located in the US. You want it to be big ENOUGH that it's going to generate some of its own traffic, i.e. Cedar Rapids International Airport (where I've flown into and got stuck lol) wouldn't qualify.

Kansas City or Oklahoma City would be good candidates in my opinion. Nashville or Louisville could work (a bit more Eastern), maybe Albuquerque (a bit more West). They're all far enough south that they probably wouldn't get crushed by winter weather.


But I'm not sure that the economics nor the logistics work out to just shove a major airport in the middle of nowhere.
This is happening now at the Punta Gorda airport (PGD). First Allegiant came in, and now Sun Country is in. PGD is expanding to accommodate more.

We can get to RSW or SRQ in 45 min to an hour, but we really like flying out of PGD.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Travels and Impressions
« Reply #347 on: June 28, 2023, 08:03:32 AM »
Cincinnati is no longer a hub at all.  They are down something like 70% in flights in and out, and have demolished two of their terminal buildings.  It used to be a hub, 2008/9 took care of that (Delta).  

Maybe some other airport like say Bham could expand some and attract more of a hub thing?

GopherRock

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Re: Travels and Impressions
« Reply #348 on: June 28, 2023, 09:15:42 AM »
You just described how Memphis was positioned. Northwest's hubs were Motown, Snowtown, and No-town. It is no longer a hub. 

The closest thing that exists to a remote airport connected to the city by other transport is the new Denver Airport. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Travels and Impressions
« Reply #349 on: June 28, 2023, 09:23:44 AM »

The closest thing that exists to a remote airport connected to the city by other transport is the new Denver Airport.
Gatwick.  DeGaulle is pretty remote also, maybe 30 miles.  There is some airport in Ireland that was built to be remote as I recall, starts with a G.

Before Cincy was built, the concept was to build one between Cincy and Dayton, which would have made a lot of sense, but Kentucky won the day, so the Cincy airport is in Kentucky (CVG = Covington).  It too is fairly remote, it was a 35 miles drive for us, across the Ohio, which could be problematic so I'd often go around on I-275 which was closer to a 50 mile drive.  No trains.

 

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