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Topic: Tide vs BearKitties
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TyphonInc · « **Reply #98 on:** January 03, 2022, 02:01:37 PM »

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 01, 2022, 11:04:04 AM

Ohio State might have done better

Doubtful.
Just last year OSU lost to 'bama 52-24 and buckeyes had a worse defense this year.
Cincinnati lost to 'bama 27-6, and made 'bama play a different style game to get the win.

This Bearcat team was really good. Just not Alabama good.
I would favor Cincinnati to win the PAC 12 North or South, ACC Atlantic or Coastal, and B1G West.
I don't think they would have survived the gauntlet of the B1G East, or having to do a rematch in the B12, or win SEC ('bama) West, and prolly would be an underdog to Georgia as well. I think they truly were the 4th best team this year, and did about as good as most teams do vs. 'bama.

medinabuckeye1 · « **Reply #99 on:** January 03, 2022, 04:42:59 PM »

Quote from: TyphonInc on January 03, 2022, 02:01:37 PM

Doubtful.
Just last year OSU lost to 'bama 52-24 and buckeyes had a worse defense this year.
Cincinnati lost to 'bama 27-6, and made 'bama play a different style game to get the win.

This, is a hell of a reach.

Saban smartly chose a low-risk/low-return strategy of running over Cincy simply because he knew he could. The Tide ran 47 times for 301 yards not because Cincy prevented the alternative but because Saban chose not to take any unnecessary risks.

Bama had 10 possessions and those resulted in:

3 TD's
2 FG's
2 punts
1 missed FG (a 44 yarder after a 12 play, 65 yard drive)
1 INT
1 end of game

Cincy stopped Bama three times out of nine drives. Excluding the end of the game, Bama's other nine drives resulted in five scores. They didn't pass because they didn't have to.

'21 Bama is not nearly as strong as '20 Bama (for that matter the entire CFP field this year was substantially weaker than usual). In 2020 Bama went 13-0 and only the SECCG was decided by one possession. Even that was only that close because Florida scored a very late TD. In 2021 Bama had a loss (to a mediocre aTm team) and all of the following one-score wins:

By 2 at Florida
By 6 vs LSU
By 7 vs Arkansas
In OT at Auburn

'20 Bama dominated their entire schedule, '21 Bama most certainly did not.

All of this is not to say that tOSU would have done better but to point out that '20 Bama and '21 Bama are not apples/apples.

MaximumSam · « **Reply #100 on:** January 03, 2022, 05:29:39 PM »

Cincy played a very light box. OSU played Bama and chose to play a 4-4-3 to stop the run and got obliterated. Cincy played a 3-3-5 and did a pretty good job against the pass. They largely did a pretty good job against the pass, and obviously the hope was they could slow down' Bammer's run enough to get them off the field. Wasn't the worst idea.

TyphonInc · « **Reply #101 on:** January 04, 2022, 08:28:12 AM »

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on January 03, 2022, 04:42:59 PM

This, is a hell of a reach.
...

'20 Bama dominated their entire schedule, '21 Bama most certainly did not.

All of this is not to say that tOSU would have done better but to point out that '20 Bama and '21 Bama are not apples/apples.

I'll concede last year's bama performed better than this years 'bama, but last year OSU performed better than this years OSU. So, I don't concede that's it's a hell of a reach that OSU would have faired better than Cincinnati.

I also think 'bama ran the ball so much because that is what Cincinnati gave them (3-3-5 D.) Cincinnati's goal was to slow 'bama down and hope to get a couple lucky breaks. They didn't get the breaks and lost by methodical 3 scores. Instead of 3+ Highlight real scores.

Kris60 · « **Reply #102 on:** January 04, 2022, 10:24:37 AM »

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on January 03, 2022, 04:42:59 PM

This, is a hell of a reach.

Saban smartly chose a low-risk/low-return strategy of running over Cincy simply because he knew he could. The Tide ran 47 times for 301 yards not because Cincy prevented the alternative but because Saban chose not to take any unnecessary risks.

Bama had 10 possessions and those resulted in:
3 TD's
2 FG's
2 punts
1 missed FG (a 44 yarder after a 12 play, 65 yard drive)
1 INT
1 end of game
Cincy stopped Bama three times out of nine drives. Excluding the end of the game, Bama's other nine drives resulted in five scores. They didn't pass because they didn't have to.

'21 Bama is not nearly as strong as '20 Bama (for that matter the entire CFP field this year was substantially weaker than usual). In 2020 Bama went 13-0 and only the SECCG was decided by one possession. Even that was only that close because Florida scored a very late TD. In 2021 Bama had a loss (to a mediocre aTm team) and all of the following one-score wins:
By 2 at Florida
By 6 vs LSU
By 7 vs Arkansas
In OT at Auburn

'20 Bama dominated their entire schedule, '21 Bama most certainly did not.

All of this is not to say that tOSU would have done better but to point out that '20 Bama and '21 Bama are not apples/apples.

Nah, disagree to an extent. Cincinnati was definitely trying to take away the pass and hold up against the run. Blackledge mentioned on more than one occasion he was surprised UC wasn’t walking a safety up because they kept getting gashed.

UC was also getting pretty good pressure. Again, Blackledge mentioned several times that Young looked uncomfortable in the pocket against UC. When Young did connect it wasn’t the big play variety like it was most of the season. He averaged 6.5 YPA against UC. He averaged 9.2 for the year.

Some of what Bama was doing was because they had a mismatch up front, but some of it was because of how UC chose to defend them. Like I said to OAM, this wasn’t a case where Bama could have thrown for 500 or ran for 500 and they just decided to run. Cincinnati was actively trying to take away the downfield passing game.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #103 on:** January 04, 2022, 10:45:32 AM »

I still don't see who merited being in over Cincy. The next few teams in contention weren't all that impressive either. And UC beat ND.

The "good" Ohio State team probably could match up with anyone.

rolltidefan · « **Reply #104 on:** January 04, 2022, 11:49:18 AM »

Quote from: Kris60 on January 04, 2022, 10:24:37 AM

Nah, disagree to an extent. Cincinnati was definitely trying to take away the pass and hold up against the run. Blackledge mentioned on more than one occasion he was surprised UC wasn’t walking a safety up because they kept getting gashed.

UC was also getting pretty good pressure. Again, Blackledge mentioned several times that Young looked uncomfortable in the pocket against UC. When Young did connect it wasn’t the big play variety like it was most of the season. He averaged 6.5 YPA against UC. He averaged 9.2 for the year.

Some of what Bama was doing was because they had a mismatch up front, but some of it was because of how UC chose to defend them. Like I said to OAM, this wasn’t a case where Bama could have thrown for 500 or ran for 500 and they just decided to run. Cincinnati was actively trying to take away the downfield passing game.

i agree with this to an extent. cincy pass d is legit. and bama ran for 2 reasons and those reasons complement each other; 1 they could and knew it, 2 it's what cincy was giving.

now, had cincy walked up and played a traditional 7 man front with a safety near box to stop run could bama have ran as easily? i don't know, probably not. but i'd put money on them being able to pass quite successfully in the scenario. especially because that would have been cincy doing something they don't do.

what cincy does good (defend the pass) they do very good. and did very good vs bama. where they are weak, bama took advantage. it's a simple as that. and that's what bama/saban does best. finds your weakness and exploits it.

fwiw, imo, they were most definitely deserving to be there. and very likely the 3rd or 4th best team overall this season.

Kris60 · « **Reply #105 on:** January 04, 2022, 12:02:42 PM »

Quote from: rolltidefan on January 04, 2022, 11:49:18 AM

i agree with this to an extent. cincy pass d is legit. and bama ran for 2 reasons and those reasons complement each other; 1 they could and knew it, 2 it's what cincy was giving.

now, had cincy walked up and played a traditional 7 man front with a safety near box to stop run could bama have ran as easily? i don't know, probably not. but i'd put money on them being able to pass quite successfully in the scenario. especially because that would have been cincy doing something they don't do.

what cincy does good (defend the pass) they do very good. and did very good vs bama. where they are weak, bama took advantage. it's a simple as that. and that's what bama/saban does best. finds your weakness and exploits it.

fwiw, imo, they were most definitely deserving to be there. and very likely the 3rd or 4th best team overall this season.

Yeah, I agree with all that. I think we’re saying the same thing. I actually think I would have taken the exact opposite approach that Fickell did. All I heard before the game was that UC arguably had the best set of corners in the country. I actually think I would have sold out on the run and put my corners on an island and hoped they could hold up.

It probably wouldn’t have made much of a difference in outcome but I was surprised they chose the death they did. I assumed Bama would have a big advantage up front.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #106 on:** January 04, 2022, 12:07:14 PM »

UC also needed to score points and keep the ball away from Bama, which they didn't very well at all. I think UC was basically toast without TOs and some excellent play by their QB.

FearlessF · « **Reply #107 on:** January 04, 2022, 12:14:53 PM »

Quote from: Kris60 on January 04, 2022, 12:02:42 PM

Yeah, I agree with all that. I think we’re saying the same thing. I actually think I would have taken the exact opposite approach that Fickell did. All I heard before the game was that UC arguably had the best set of corners in the country. I actually think I would have sold out on the run and put my corners on an island and hoped they could hold up.

It probably wouldn’t have made much of a difference in outcome but I was surprised they chose the death they did. I assumed Bama would have a big advantage up front.

yup

rolltidefan · « **Reply #108 on:** January 04, 2022, 12:41:26 PM »

Quote from: Cincydawg on January 04, 2022, 12:07:14 PM

UC also needed to score points and keep the ball away from Bama, which they didn't very well at all. I think UC was basically toast without TOs and some excellent play by their QB.

this is where domination happened. outside of the first drive of each half, which were almost certainly scripted and their best plays, cincy was completely shutdown. after those drives, bama adjusted and shut them down.

cincy drives and results, in order.

1st half
60 yards, fg
1 yd, punt
6 yds, punt
5 yrds, fumble
4 yds, turnover on downs (also the final play of half)

2nd half
56 yds, fg
1 yd, punt
-16 yds, punt
49 yds, downs
37 yds, downs

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Topic: Tide vs BearKitties

TyphonInc

Re: Tide vs BearKitties

medinabuckeye1

Re: Tide vs BearKitties

MaximumSam

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TyphonInc

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Kris60

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Cincydawg

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rolltidefan

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Kris60

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Cincydawg

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FearlessF

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rolltidefan

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