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Topic: There's a Hole in My Schedule (SOC 11/28/20)
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FearlessF · « **Reply #140 on:** November 29, 2020, 06:14:08 PM »

I would think the networks would be hungry for content and put pressure on the Commish to produce two games and no rematch if possible

LittlePig · « **Reply #141 on:** November 29, 2020, 07:23:54 PM »

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 29, 2020, 06:12:57 PM

If a rematch was an option, I'd bet UW would've looked into throttling Illinois again.

Consider me doubtful.

I kind of thought the big issue was that OSU did not cancel the OSU-ILL game until Sat the day of the game. Although OSU did not travel on Fri, so the odds were already bad on Friday that the game would be played.

But either way, it was too late in the week for ILL to do anything. If OSU and Minny both cancel this week by Tues, then maybe the conference still has time to switch things around in theory.

ELA · « **Reply #142 on:** November 29, 2020, 10:17:42 PM »

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 29, 2020, 01:40:50 PM

Maybe it's because my team keeps losing games, but any time UW gets to play, I find it meaningful. I was decidedly salty about NW and joyful about the Michigan win.

I was pissed when they lost Minnesota. Not super pissed, but I assume that's because I'm less busy and not 22 anymore.

I was glad MSU won yesterday. But I'm not sure it actually meant anything. Being #8 doesn't mean jack. And the bowl selections have more to do with who hasn't been to a given bowl in a minute than merit. Theyve created a system where every win beyond bowl eligibility but short of CFP qualification is irrelevant. And sadly that's everything between 6-6 and like 11-2.

ELA · « **Reply #143 on:** November 29, 2020, 10:23:09 PM »

Quote from: Kris60 on November 29, 2020, 02:27:21 PM

I still hope they win out and go to as good a bowl as possible and get an interesting match up. If I weren’t in to the season I guess I wouldn’t be doing those things.

Problem is, I don't think it matters. At least in the Big Ten, they've created this dumb cycle to more or less ensure teams don't go to the same bowl twice in a 6 year span. So a 10-3, top 15 MSU team in 2017 went to the Holiday Bowl, but had they gone 7-5 last year, they were almost certainly guaranteed a NYD bowl, simply because they hadn't played in the Citrus/Outback during this cycle.

If you actually emphasized the bowls through merit, beyond the CFP, I could get on board. But since they don't it's hard for me to care that much about any result that doesn't impact the CFP

bayareabadger · « **Reply #144 on:** November 29, 2020, 10:40:57 PM »

Quote from: ELA on November 29, 2020, 10:17:42 PM

I was glad MSU won yesterday. But I'm not sure it actually meant anything. Being #8 doesn't mean jack. And the bowl selections have more to do with who hasn't been to a given bowl in a minute than merit. Theyve created a system where every win beyond bowl eligibility but short of CFP qualification is irrelevant. And sadly that's everything between 6-6 and like 11-2.

What things mean or what is relevant remains in the eye of the beholder.

These things don't mean jack and are not relevant because either you, ELA, do not believe them to mean jack, or because whatever you tie to meaning (I think in this case it's bowl hierarchy?) is untethered.

I go back to my college days. UW had pairs of seasons when they went to the same bowl but had drastically different seasons, the second one in each case being better. It felt weird to have the same name on the bowl I didn't go to, but the seasons themselves each had meaning in their own context.

If the wins in themselves don't matter, then why watch? Because a team could go to Orlando for the Citrus instead of the Camping World? We get mad at all the noise and focus on the big race, and then we lament the fact that without that noise, we can't bring ourselves to care about the things we used to.

Maybe I'm projecting. I got older, had more real responsibilities (I know I have fewer than you do), and I started giving less of a crap about the name on the bowl and what anyone else thought of the team. If I enjoyed the game and the experience of watching, the bigger picture mattered far less.

Kris60 · « **Reply #145 on:** November 30, 2020, 03:38:53 AM »

Quote from: ELA on November 29, 2020, 10:23:09 PM

Problem is, I don't think it matters. At least in the Big Ten, they've created this dumb cycle to more or less ensure teams don't go to the same bowl twice in a 6 year span. So a 10-3, top 15 MSU team in 2017 went to the Holiday Bowl, but had they gone 7-5 last year, they were almost certainly guaranteed a NYD bowl, simply because they hadn't played in the Citrus/Outback during this cycle.

If you actually emphasized the bowls through merit, beyond the CFP, I could get on board. But since they don't it's hard for me to care that much about any result that doesn't impact the CFP

The only way I know to respond is to say if it matters to me, then it matters. I don’t need third party validation that it matters. It just sounds like to me you are letting outside forces dictate to you how much enjoyment you get out of watching your school. Most of us cheer for teams that will be out of the CFP running far more than they will be in it. You better be able to find pleasure in games and wins that don’t have an effect on the playoff picture, or pretty soon you will just stop watching altogether.

WVU realistically has no shot at the Big 12 title, let alone the national title. But they end the season playing two ranked teams who are in the thick of the conference title picture. I want them to win those games. They matter to me even if they don’t matter in the grand, national scene. Winning games like that could be a steppingstone for bigger things in future seasons. You have to be able to find meaning in “meaningless” games.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #146 on:** November 30, 2020, 08:11:03 AM »

I have noted before it could be fun to be a K State fan.

utee94 · « **Reply #147 on:** November 30, 2020, 08:27:38 AM »

Most K-State fans I know consider their team to be a constant KITN (kick in the nuts) so I'm not sure they'd agree.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #148 on:** November 30, 2020, 08:35:28 AM »

I've told the story of going to an Ole Miss game. We got invited to this tent. They had an Alabama fan there, and she explained that at Bama no one enjoys the pregame because they are too tense, and no one enjoys the post game because after a 51-7 win, they complain about giving up that late TD. She noted that at Ole Miss, folks are there to tailgate and have fun, the game is an afterthought. Win or lose they have fun.

I think the hosts were some Big Wigs because after the game some players showed up and were feted. And they had everything in the tent, and wouldn't take my effort to compensate them for some of it. They pay some company to come in on Thursday and set up the tent (it was double) with furniture and then bring in the food and booze on Saturday AM. It was Kirby's first year, and the Dawgs got hammered.

I was thinking at K State you could do the same thing as expectations are low generally.

ELA · « **Reply #149 on:** November 30, 2020, 10:09:28 AM »

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 29, 2020, 10:40:57 PM

If the wins in themselves don't matter, then why watch? Because a team could go to Orlando for the Citrus instead of the Camping World? We get mad at all the noise and focus on the big race, and then we lament the fact that without that noise, we can't bring ourselves to care about the things we used to.

I mean as far as determining anything, they are irrelevant. You could go 7-5, and win up in a New Years Day Bowl, or 10-2 and wind up in the Music City Bowl.

And I don't need noise to care, but I'd prefer results being tied to something. I'm not saying "I don't care about getting to the Citrus Bowl, because nobody cares about the Citrus Bowl anymore", I'm saying "I don't care about getting to the Citrus Bowl, because getting there is more tied to who hadn't been there recently than how the teams did."

I would love to tier the bowls, and be playing for something late. I would love for a November MSU-Indiana game (in a normal year) to be between two teams jockying for bowl positioning. Instead, a game in November between two 6-3 teams, largely has no bearing on anything

ELA · « **Reply #150 on:** November 30, 2020, 10:18:46 AM »

Quote from: Kris60 on November 30, 2020, 03:38:53 AM

The only way I know to respond is to say if it matters to me, then it matters. I don’t need third party validation that it matters. It just sounds like to me you are letting outside forces dictate to you how much enjoyment you get out of watching your school. Most of us cheer for teams that will be out of the CFP running far more than they will be in it. You better be able to find pleasure in games and wins that don’t have an effect on the playoff picture, or pretty soon you will just stop watching altogether.

I think we actually agree. My issue isn't that non-CFP games should be irrelevant, it's that they are, due to a postseason system that has become so focused on this thing that so few participate in, that they've sacrificed the other bowls. I was legitimately psyched when Michigan State went 8-3 in 2008 and got to play in a New Years Bowl, by finishing 3rd in the Big Ten. That was worth rooting for to me. A 9-3 MSU team in 2017, with wins over Michigan, Iowa and Penn State, wound up in the Holiday Bowl, simply because of a system the Big Ten now has, to cycle teams through bowls. Flip side, last year (apparently) if MSU had finished 7-5, instead of 6-6, due to that same cycle, they very likely would have wound up in the Outback Bowl.

It's not a matter of letting third-parties dictate what matters to me, it's that they've changed the system so beyond the New Years Six bowls, performance is not tied to bowl bid. I was rooting as hard as anything in 2008 for that New Years Bowl, both as a legitimate reward, and season validation. Neither of those things exist anymore because (1) the selection isn't tied to your performance; and (2) because of that, there is no validation in playing in a NYD bowl. Hell, on the back end of this cycle playing in a NYD bowl may actually be a bad thing, because it meant you weren't selected for one until there was nobody left to pick from.

bayareabadger · « **Reply #151 on:** November 30, 2020, 10:46:25 AM »

Quote from: ELA on November 30, 2020, 10:09:28 AM

I mean as far as determining anything, they are irrelevant. You could go 7-5, and win up in a New Years Day Bowl, or 10-2 and wind up in the Music City Bowl.

And I don't need noise to care, but I'd prefer results being tied to something. I'm not saying "I don't care about getting to the Citrus Bowl, because nobody cares about the Citrus Bowl anymore", I'm saying "I don't care about getting to the Citrus Bowl, because getting there is more tied to who hadn't been there recently than how the teams did."

I would love to tier the bowls, and be playing for something late. I would love for a November MSU-Indiana game (in a normal year) to be between two teams jockying for bowl positioning. Instead, a game in November between two 6-3 teams, largely has no bearing on anything

I see now that you're saying it's not about the noise, but you like the success to tie into postseason destination.

I suppose that's fair, though it seems the disillusionment is with the bowl system being changed in general, which doesn't have to impact enjoyment of games. I guess I'm just old fashioned, but I always found playing just to be an 8-4 team rather than a 7-5 team much more valuable than where they go.

I suppose, also, my issue was that this problem existed pre-playoff, just in a less free-form way. Going 7-5 got the same result in 2008 as going 9-3 in 2009 (that was a weird one where NW jumped UW in the standings via tiebreaker/better story, so it went Outback despite a non-conference loss to 4-8 Syracuse). Going 9-3 with a ragged defense in 2005 got UW what going 11-1 did a year later. If 8-4 sometimes got you NYD and 9-3 sometimes got you Dec. 29, wasn't worth my worry.

(You did mention rooting really hard for a bowl in 2008. Maybe I'm overstepping bounds, but I know the small details in sports I cared about 12 years ago are just different, and I find myself wondering if that might be a factor as well for you)

ELA · « **Reply #152 on:** November 30, 2020, 10:55:35 AM »

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 30, 2020, 10:46:25 AM

(You did mention rooting really hard for a bowl in 2008. Maybe I'm overstepping bounds, but I know the small details in sports I cared about 12 years ago are just different, and I find myself wondering if that might be a factor as well for you)

Yeah, caveat for that as well, but even relatively speaking.

ELA · « **Reply #153 on:** November 30, 2020, 11:35:39 AM »

Penix done for the season. Kid can't stay healthy

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Topic: There's a Hole in My Schedule (SOC 11/28/20)

FearlessF

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LittlePig

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ELA

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ELA

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bayareabadger

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Kris60

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Cincydawg

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utee94

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Cincydawg

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ELA

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ELA

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bayareabadger

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ELA

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ELA

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