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Topic: The Plight of a Non-Helmet Fan in Modern College Football

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Cincydawg

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Re: The Plight of a Non-Helmet Fan in Modern College Football
« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2024, 08:14:59 AM »
If I had the power to change on thing it would be the portal thing.

847badgerfan

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Re: The Plight of a Non-Helmet Fan in Modern College Football
« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2024, 08:46:58 AM »
I'm fading fast.  I don't give a damn about a team of mercenaries.

Love to cheer for one of your guys --- He gone.

New guy comes in, plays well, you begin to cheer for him --- wants a raise --- He gone.

F this nonsense.

I'm as big a CFB sicko as it gets, and if they are losing me, I'd advise someone get control real fast.  How, I don't know?  But it better happen ASAP.
Exactly this.
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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: The Plight of a Non-Helmet Fan in Modern College Football
« Reply #30 on: December 30, 2024, 08:54:44 AM »
Clemson and Florida State would kill to have the Big Ten revenue that the Big Ten basketball schools take for granted. 

medinabuckeye1

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Re: The Plight of a Non-Helmet Fan in Modern College Football
« Reply #31 on: December 30, 2024, 10:16:43 AM »
Texas and OU were always gonna be a package deal.  And the SEC was always going to take Texas if/when the Horns were willing.

Anyway, as a fan of a helmet school that's currently in the playoff, I can say that even so, I'm becoming less interested with each passing year as well.  It's hard when there's so little continuity in players.  The NFL has been the ultimate laundry league for generations and even it doesn't have completely unrestricted free agency.
I'm fading fast.  I don't give a damn about a team of mercenaries.

Love to cheer for one of your guys --- He gone.

New guy comes in, plays well, you begin to cheer for him --- wants a raise --- He gone.

F this nonsense.

I'm as big a CFB sicko as it gets, and if they are losing me, I'd advise someone get control real fast.  How, I don't know?  But it better happen ASAP.
Exactly these two statements.  

All of us here are/were crazy enough about this sport that we joined a message board and not even just one about our team but one more generally about the sport and yet our fandom is wavering.  This is a mess.  

Note that @utee94 , @jgvol and I all root for teams that MADE the playoff and two of us for teams that are still in it and even we are questioning this.  This is a mess.  

CatsbyAZ

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Re: The Plight of a Non-Helmet Fan in Modern College Football
« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2024, 11:03:46 AM »
Sports fandom is a bit of a strange and irrational thing. After all, there's no real reason that someone in Cleveland should be a Browns fan. I mean, unless they play for the team and are getting paid, the Browns are just a collection of people who work for the Cleveland Browns organization in the service of entertainment. Ultimately it would be just as rational for someone from Cleveland to be a Bengals fan, or a Lions fan, or a Dolphins fan. The only "logical" reason that someone from Cleveland might root for the Browns is that they live in Cleveland and it's the "local" team... But for many folks in the Cleveland area the fact that they live in Cleveland is purely an accident, determined for them by their parents having lived there when they were born, and thus living in Cleveland is as accidental as a football team named the Browns also happening to be in Cleveland.

Obviously, for a sports fan--short for "fanatic"--to become rather rabidly partisan for a team comes from something else. It comes from the fact that a sports team is something that we've built as an emotional, shared, experience. In Cleveland, that's being surrounded by people who are fans, with whom you share the [rare] wins as well as the [constant] disappointment. Even the struggles help cement those emotional bonds, which is why we all look down on fair-weather fans. Standing together during the hard times makes celebrating the good times ever more sweet.

Not sure if my thoughts agree or disagree with your first two paragraphs, and worse, I might be repeating your points, but a Clevelander who roots for the Browns is exercising a more predictable rationality than a Clevelander rooting for the Bengals, Lions, or Dolphins.

What is this more predictable rationality? There’s probably a more striking phrase for it. In their search for meaning and validation, humans seek shared experiences (community), and escape from everyday mundanity while conversely seeking to connect more deeply with one’s everyday experiences (authenticity).

Without delving into how, rooting for the local sports teams can to a certain depth fulfill these personal searches which in turn is doubly reinforced by the communal experience of localized fandom for the team down the street. Whether it’s small town Texans turning out every Friday the high school’s football games or New Englanders passing the protracted summers months with game by game attention paid to the Red Sox. None of what humans search for, whether they are aware of it, and are even less likely to articulate well, is as communally met by rooting for teams in other time zones.

Humans also want identity and, once in a while, the crude satisfaction of exercising their raw survival instincts. Sports can hit these marks as well, though likely in a more detached rather than primal internalization.

Cleveland is a shared identity for Clevelanders. Rooting for the Browns is wearing a form of battle armor in defense of Cleveland, their shared identity.


Honestbuckeye

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Re: The Plight of a Non-Helmet Fan in Modern College Football
« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2024, 11:27:00 AM »
Exactly these two statements. 

All of us here are/were crazy enough about this sport that we joined a message board and not even just one about our team but one more generally about the sport and yet our fandom is wavering.  This is a mess. 

Note that @utee94 , @jgvol and I all root for teams that MADE the playoff and two of us for teams that are still in it and even we are questioning this.  This is a mess. 
Add me to the list.   As I have already stated multiple times, CFB is screwed up and my interest level has gone from intense to nearly gone.  
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: The Plight of a Non-Helmet Fan in Modern College Football
« Reply #34 on: December 30, 2024, 12:00:45 PM »
Not sure if my thoughts agree or disagree with your first two paragraphs, and worse, I might be repeating your points, but a Clevelander who roots for the Browns is exercising a more predictable rationality than a Clevelander rooting for the Bengals, Lions, or Dolphins.

What is this more predictable rationality? There’s probably a more striking phrase for it. In their search for meaning and validation, humans seek shared experiences (community), and escape from everyday mundanity while conversely seeking to connect more deeply with one’s everyday experiences (authenticity).

Without delving into how, rooting for the local sports teams can to a certain depth fulfill these personal searches which in turn is doubly reinforced by the communal experience of localized fandom for the team down the street. Whether it’s small town Texans turning out every Friday the high school’s football games or New Englanders passing the protracted summers months with game by game attention paid to the Red Sox. None of what humans search for, whether they are aware of it, and are even less likely to articulate well, is as communally met by rooting for teams in other time zones.

Humans also want identity and, once in a while, the crude satisfaction of exercising their raw survival instincts. Sports can hit these marks as well, though likely in a more detached rather than primal internalization.

Cleveland is a shared identity for Clevelanders. Rooting for the Browns is wearing a form of battle armor in defense of Cleveland, their shared identity.
No, I think we agree.

I might call it a "more predictable irrationality" though. The itch that is being scratched in Cleveland by rooting for the Browns is an emotional itch, not a logical one. It's a coping mechanism against the fear of staring out into the existentialist void and not finding meaning at all. Some go to church on Sundays. Others go hang out in a parking lot in Cleveland and drink beer and grill meat before going into the stadium with 60,000 of their closest "friends" to root for the Browns.

Ultimately the meaning is what we assign it to be. The point of my post is that it seems more and more that the structural changes of the sport are chipping away at the foundation and making it seem like we're trying to assign meaning to a cathedral in the process of collapsing.

SFBadger96

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Re: The Plight of a Non-Helmet Fan in Modern College Football
« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2024, 01:12:23 PM »
Purdue, Iowa State, Missouri (etc.) have all been happy to take the TV money that the conferences have been generating. That leads to this point.

I'll say again what I've said many times: the NCAA was probably right back in the 1980s when it was trying to control TV rights for football that losing that control would lead to the end of collegiate sports as we know it. And here we are.

The helmet schools and the large state schools (with healthy athletic department revenue) can probably survive this new version of college football, but I agree that it is a very different version of the sport than we grew up with. Does that doom Wisconsin? Maybe. Thanks to Donna Shalala, Pat Richter, and Barry Alvarez Wisconsin built a very healthy athletic department, but one based on the old model. I don't know how seriously the Wisconsin football fan takes UW football if it becomes the doormat for the helmet schools in a 50-team league.

I don't know if Wisconsin will continue to fill Camp Randall if its reduced to finishing .500 or worse year over year. Professional teams manage to do that, to some extent, but the state of Wisconsin already has a professional team. What Wisconsin rebuilt its program on starting in 1991 was the ability to compete for conference championships. The reality of that in the current environment is questionable, to say the least.

All of the revenue, player movement issues, etc. need a CBA to address them. Otherwise, yes, a continuation of constant free agency, no program building, and just a question of who is willing to invest what and when (as it is in the pro game, except that they have better control of the movement of players because of the CBA). That CBA is going to be tougher than the pro CBAs to figure out because the financial model is so different for a third string safety at Purdue than it is for a third string safety for the Browns. Plucking kids out of high school to figure out who is good enough to get paid (and how much should they get paid) includes a lot more risk than figuring out how much to pay an NFL-level (even if just barely) talent.

NIL, too, is more complicated at the collegiate level. It's curious to see how much boosters will continue to be willing to pay directly to players (or collectives, to pay players) in a world in which the schools directly pay their revenue generating players.

So, yes, change is here. And the Purdue's of the world are definitely at risk. Maybe it will be good for many programs--including Wisconsin--to go to a FCS model, where Michigan, Ohio State, Alabama, Georgia, USC, Oregon, Texas (etc.) is where the real money is--NFL-lite--and the leagues below are the development leagues. But I don't know if Wisconsin can fill an 82K seat stadium in that model.   

And maybe this is all ok. Maybe it's long overdue that kids who have the talent to generate real income by playing a sport can accept that income, without the fiction of being students at major universities. And the other kids, who can't, contribute to their school's spirit and camaraderie by being really good at their sport, but not expecting a big paycheck out of it--instead, getting a solid education, which is what they need in life, because their athleticism won't pay the bills for very long IRL.

ELA

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Re: The Plight of a Non-Helmet Fan in Modern College Football
« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2024, 01:26:42 PM »
I don't know if Wisconsin will continue to fill Camp Randall if its reduced to finishing .500 or worse year over year. Professional teams manage to do that, to some extent, but the state of Wisconsin already has a professional team. What Wisconsin rebuilt its program on starting in 1991 was the ability to compete for conference championships. The reality of that in the current environment is questionable, to say the least.
Eh, but no pro teams really do that.  MLB doesn't have a salary cap, but the team control of players is so high, that there is more parity than is assumed, and you mix in a fairly wide open post season, and there is still a chance for everyone.

I think the NBA might face this issue, because of the player contract maxes.  If a guy can only get paid a specific max, no matter where he goes, how is Detroit or Indiana or Utah going to compete.  They can be willing to spend to the cap, but if they can't offer more than anyone else, they are SOL.  Particularly because the NBA is a winter sport, so you are there for the winter.  Being a baseball player in a cold weather city is fine.  You can live wherever from October-January, then you spend February and March in Arizona or Florida anyway.

NIL is getting blamed for a lot of this, but I think it's getting rid of the one year sit out rule for transfer.  Now it seems like the 4 year eligibility rule will follow.  I think if you put back in the one year sit out rule, with zero exceptions, and say you have 5 years to play 4 seasons, and any season where you appear in any portion of 4 games counts, no exceptions, you could have unregulated NIL, and it would be fine.

SFBadger96

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Re: The Plight of a Non-Helmet Fan in Modern College Football
« Reply #37 on: December 30, 2024, 01:36:05 PM »
Eh, but no pro teams really do that.  MLB doesn't have a salary cap, but the team control of players is so high, that there is more parity than is assumed, and you mix in a fairly wide open post season, and there is still a chance for everyone.

I think the NBA might face this issue, because of the player contract maxes.  If a guy can only get paid a specific max, no matter where he goes, how is Detroit or Indiana or Utah going to compete.  They can be willing to spend to the cap, but if they can't offer more than anyone else, they are SOL.  Particularly because the NBA is a winter sport, so you are there for the winter.  Being a baseball player in a cold weather city is fine.  You can live wherever from October-January, then you spend February and March in Arizona or Florida anyway.

NIL is getting blamed for a lot of this, but I think it's getting rid of the one year sit out rule for transfer.  Now it seems like the 4 year eligibility rule will follow.  I think if you put back in the one year sit out rule, with zero exceptions, and say you have 5 years to play 4 seasons, and any season where you appear in any portion of 4 games counts, no exceptions, you could have unregulated NIL, and it would be fine.
Most of your post is CBA related. Player comp and control is all about the CBA for the pro leagues.

The Jets, Browns, Cardinals, Chargers, Raiders, Jaguars, etc., all seem to be ok with having shitty teams. They generate enough revenue (probably mostly through TV) that they can be consistently mediocre. Do they care that their stadiums aren't packed? Apparently not. For the larger state schools (Wisconsin, Illinois, Minnesota), maybe that's the future. There is likely a lot more tribalism for IU than there is for Purdue, simply because of the name (notwithstanding that they are both public schools in Indiana), although maybe I'm wrong about that. For Wisconsin, having a team to cheer for, even a lousy one, will generate some fans. And if the revenue is coming in from the TV deal that helps pay for other things, maybe the University is fine with that, even if Camp Randall becomes a library most Saturdays. Maybe not. Absent a CBA, that is likely the future to contemplate. 

847badgerfan

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Re: The Plight of a Non-Helmet Fan in Modern College Football
« Reply #38 on: December 30, 2024, 01:40:40 PM »
Most of your post is CBA related. Player comp and control is all about the CBA for the pro leagues.

The Jets, Browns, Cardinals, Chargers, Raiders, Jaguars, etc., all seem to be ok with having shitty teams. They generate enough revenue (probably mostly through TV) that they can be consistently mediocre. Do they care that their stadiums aren't packed? Apparently not. For the larger state schools (Wisconsin, Illinois, Minnesota), maybe that's the future. There is likely a lot more tribalism for IU than there is for Purdue, simply because of the name (notwithstanding that they are both public schools in Indiana), although maybe I'm wrong about that. For Wisconsin, having a team to cheer for, even a lousy one, will generate some fans. And if the revenue is coming in from the TV deal that helps pay for other things, maybe the University is fine with that, even if Camp Randall becomes a library most Saturdays. Maybe not. Absent a CBA, that is likely the future to contemplate.
Have you paid attention to what Wisconsin is doing to track and field?
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

SFBadger96

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Re: The Plight of a Non-Helmet Fan in Modern College Football
« Reply #39 on: December 30, 2024, 01:45:05 PM »
Do you mean that they are a relatively successful non-revenue program, or that the University tore down their practice facility in favor of a new one for football?

847badgerfan

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Re: The Plight of a Non-Helmet Fan in Modern College Football
« Reply #40 on: December 30, 2024, 01:50:10 PM »
Do you mean that they are a relatively successful non-revenue program, or that the University tore down their practice facility in favor of a new one for football?
Both. And they have no home. They now have their home matches in Chicago.

All for a football program that's going to end up a perennial also-ran.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

SFBadger96

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Re: The Plight of a Non-Helmet Fan in Modern College Football
« Reply #41 on: December 30, 2024, 01:57:31 PM »
...and generates a lot of money for the university's athletic department. And probably will continue to do so.

It's a harsh world, but money continues to talk.

(It's not that I'm not sad about it--I am.)

 

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