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Topic: Texas and OU to where?!?!

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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #308 on: July 27, 2021, 05:17:14 PM »
30 teams competing for one Conference Title? :o

1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

FearlessF

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Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #309 on: July 27, 2021, 05:22:05 PM »
3 divisions with 10 teams each
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CWSooner

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Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #310 on: July 27, 2021, 05:55:42 PM »
Didn't Texas and OU take a larger share anyways?  So you'd have to calculate the payout based on not having to share more revenue with TX/OU, and maybe calculate how much a UH and Cincinnati would bring to the table.  But more importantly you'd have to compare that to how much the AAC would be able to payout.  I'm betting that the AAC would still not be able to match what a revised Big 12 would bring. 

Also I know the regional model for conferences is mostly dead but it still makes a lot of sense for the non-revenue sports (womens sports, olympic sports, etc).  I think we will at some point see football and mens BB partitioned out into their own conference with the other sports settling into a different model.  Call it a hybrid model.  Of course the bigger schools will have more money so they can continue to pony up more travel expenses.
Yes, OU and UT got more money than the rest of the programs.  As did A&M and Nebraska when they were in the conference.  But it wasn't a huge difference.  Maybe 115% of what the other programs got.  (My firm belief is that this was a cancer at the heart of the Big 12 from Day 1.)  So the amount to be gained by not having to pay extra to two members won't come near making up for what will be lost in the next TV contract.
I think that the Big 12 can survive--and even get somewhat better--if the remaining members behave the way they wish OU and Texas had, by sticking together.  They can poach the best two or four mid-majors between the Appalachians and the Rockies and be OK.
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CWSooner

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Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #311 on: July 27, 2021, 06:06:00 PM »
I see that Thumper and I disagree on equal vs. unequal revenue-sharing within the Big 12.  ~???
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Thumper

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Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #312 on: July 27, 2021, 06:29:57 PM »
I maybe wrong but didn't all TV revenue (not first tier) and bowl revenue after expenses go to the conference and split equally?  
https://cyclonefanatic.com/2021/05/big-12-announces-2020-21-fiscal-year-revenue-distribution/

The unequal part was the LHN and OU's deal with Learfield for 2nd and 3rd tier rights.  
Of course ticket sales, concessions, merchandise, etc. varied among the schools.

Of course I'm talking about the 10 member Big 12.  The original 12 member group did have unequal distribution and I agree with you that it was a cancer.  

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #313 on: July 27, 2021, 06:54:04 PM »
You should never add a program at their peak.  It's temporary.  Any program being added should be valued at its average.  This is why ISU is a bad idea.
How long will Campbell be there?  How good a HC will he be post-Purdy/Reese?  What's ISU's average in the past 30 years?  THAT is what you'd be adding.
Same with Cincinnati.  Same with Clemson.  
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CWSooner

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Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #314 on: July 27, 2021, 07:58:03 PM »
I maybe wrong but didn't all TV revenue (not first tier) and bowl revenue after expenses go to the conference and split equally? 
https://cyclonefanatic.com/2021/05/big-12-announces-2020-21-fiscal-year-revenue-distribution/

The unequal part was the LHN and OU's deal with Learfield for 2nd and 3rd tier rights. 
Of course ticket sales, concessions, merchandise, etc. varied among the schools.

Of course I'm talking about the 10 member Big 12.  The original 12 member group did have unequal distribution and I agree with you that it was a cancer. 
I guess you're right, Thumper.
Does the SEC treat 2nd and 3rd-tier rights the same way as the Big 12, or does the conference control them?
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CWSooner

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Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #315 on: July 27, 2021, 08:00:13 PM »
You should never add a program at their peak.  It's temporary.  Any program being added should be valued at its average.  This is why ISU is a bad idea.
How long will Campbell be there?  How good a HC will he be post-Purdy/Reese?  What's ISU's average in the past 30 years?  THAT is what you'd be adding.
Same with Cincinnati.  Same with Clemson. 
I agree that you can't just look at how a program did last year.
But how far back do you go to get that "average"?  Does how a program did in 1920 have just as much weight as how it did in 2020?
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utee94

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Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #316 on: July 27, 2021, 08:09:31 PM »
Yes, OU and UT got more money than the rest of the programs.  As did A&M and Nebraska when they were in the conference.  But it wasn't a huge difference.  Maybe 115% of what the other programs got.  (My firm belief is that this was a cancer at the heart of the Big 12 from Day 1.)  So the amount to be gained by not having to pay extra to two members won't come near making up for what will be lost in the next TV contract.
I think that the Big 12 can survive--and even get somewhat better--if the remaining members behave the way they wish OU and Texas had, by sticking together.  They can poach the best two or four mid-majors between the Appalachians and the Rockies and be OK.
This is incorrect.  B12 has had equal revenue sharing for all Tier1 and Tier2 since the 2010 contract renegotiations (after Nebraska and Colorado departed).  The Tier3 rights were still retained by the individual conference members, but all official conference revenue was split equally.

In 2010 the B12 offered to give additional shares of the Nebraska/Colorado exit penalty money to UT, OU, and A&M. UT and OU declined.  A&M was the only school that accepted the additional share of exit penalty money, and then departed the next year anyway.

utee94

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Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #317 on: July 27, 2021, 08:13:30 PM »

I guess you're right, Thumper.
Does the SEC treat 2nd and 3rd-tier rights the same way as the Big 12, or does the conference control them?

Just saw Thumper beat me to it.

The SEC controls all rights Tiers 1 thru 3, as do the B1G and PAC. 


Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #318 on: July 27, 2021, 08:16:06 PM »
I agree that you can't just look at how a program did last year.
But how far back do you go to get that "average"?  Does how a program did in 1920 have just as much weight as how it did in 2020?


Seems like a rather exaggerated "problem" to me. 

I mean it isn't as though there are a chorus of posters suggesting Coastal Carolina and Liberty as expansion candidates. 

1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #319 on: July 27, 2021, 10:53:53 PM »
You should never add a program at their peak.  It's temporary.  Any program being added should be valued at its average.  This is why ISU is a bad idea.
How long will Campbell be there?  How good a HC will he be post-Purdy/Reese?  What's ISU's average in the past 30 years?  THAT is what you'd be adding.
Same with Cincinnati.  Same with Clemson. 
Agreed.  I mentioned this upthread in regard to Clemson.  My big fear in adding them would be that if they go back to pre-Dabo Clemson, are they worth it?
Seems like a rather exaggerated "problem" to me.

I mean it isn't as though there are a chorus of posters suggesting Coastal Carolina and Liberty as expansion candidates.
No, but Clemson and ISU (two example that @OrangeAfroMan used) have been talked about.  
I agree that you can't just look at how a program did last year.
But how far back do you go to get that "average"?  Does how a program did in 1920 have just as much weight as how it did in 2020?
This is a balancing act because you are trying to project the future based on the past.  Clearly Minnesota's great years and NC's back before WWII are basically irrelevant.  OTOH, I'm not completely sure that Michigan's great years under Bo ~50 years ago are irrelevant.  Somewhere in there is your projection.  

CWSooner

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Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #320 on: July 27, 2021, 10:59:29 PM »
This is incorrect.  B12 has had equal revenue sharing for all Tier1 and Tier2 since the 2010 contract renegotiations (after Nebraska and Colorado departed).  The Tier3 rights were still retained by the individual conference members, but all official conference revenue was split equally.

In 2010 the B12 offered to give additional shares of the Nebraska/Colorado exit penalty money to UT, OU, and A&M. UT and OU declined.  A&M was the only school that accepted the additional share of exit penalty money, and then departed the next year anyway.
Thanks.  I already got corrected on the revenue issue by Thumper, but you are adding some additional info.
Maybe something else I'm thinking is also incorrect, but I think I read something in the last 6 days that verified it.  It is my understanding that the SEC controls Tier 1, 2, and 3 revenue.  Yes?
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bayareabadger

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Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #321 on: July 27, 2021, 11:04:13 PM »
You should never add a program at their peak.  It's temporary.  Any program being added should be valued at its average.  This is why ISU is a bad idea.
How long will Campbell be there?  How good a HC will he be post-Purdy/Reese?  What's ISU's average in the past 30 years?  THAT is what you'd be adding.
Same with Cincinnati.  Same with Clemson. 
I think ISU is different from Clemson and Cincinnati.

Cincy has been some degree of competent for about 25 years and is in a geographically strong spot. Clemson, from the end of the Ford era to when Dabo took off, still won 60 percent of its games (and has a robust payroll)

before Campbell, ISU didn’t have a coach better than 43.2 winning percentage since Earle Bruce

 

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