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Topic: Texas and OU to where?!?!

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FearlessF

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Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #238 on: July 26, 2021, 12:16:15 PM »
whenever you walk in and sit down
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #239 on: July 26, 2021, 12:17:35 PM »
The bar in my marina is solidly Big Ten.
Exactly the kind of thing I was thinking of.  Guys like you might live in a fast-growing sunbelt state but your team is from where you came from.  I would guess that tOSU/M is a bigger deal in a substantial portion of Florida than UF/FSU for the same reason.  

CWSooner

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Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #240 on: July 26, 2021, 01:28:12 PM »
I think this is an important point.  Sometimes on here we get fans from current or former conference-mates of Texas who obviously chafe at Texas' perceived (rightly) throwing their weight around in their league. 

I think they are right, Texas does, but I also think that any school in Texas' situation would.  The B12 has forever had way too many weak links.  That left Texas as the 900 lb gorilla in the room.  The exact same thing would have happened if the B12 had been those schools with Bama or tOSU instead of Texas. 

Assuming Texas joins the SEC or if they had joined the B1G things would have been very different.  In the SEC or B1G Texas would still be one of the biggest or possibly even the biggest revenue generator, the gap wouldn't be so large.  In the SEC or B1G Texas would have somewhat equal "colleagues" in schools like Bama, Florida, Georgia, Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, etc. 

In the B12 Texas probably was responsible for at least close to a majority of the revenue not generated by Oklahoma.  Ie, after Oklahoma the Longhorns probably generated more revenue than the next 4-6 (or more) schools.  That inherently created the situation where the B12 HAD to cater to the Longhorns (and to a somewhat lesser extent, the Sooners).  It is like a company whose largest client provides 50% of their revenue.  That company will do almost anything for that large client, they have to. 

In the SEC or B1G, Texas would be analogous to a large client but not an overpowering client.  They'll be in the group of largest clients and maybe even the biggest, but they won't be 50% or even 25%. 

Ultimately, I think that this whole thing was due to what happened when the SWC folded.  From the mid-1970's up until Arkansas left for the SEC, the SWC was made up of (listed in Medina's order of presumed $value):
  • Texas
  • aTm
  • Arkansas
  • TxTech
  • Houston
  • SMU
  • TCU
  • Baylor
  • Rice

Meanwhile, the old Big8 in the same timeframe was made up of (same order):
  • Oklahoma
  • Nebraska
  • Colorado
  • Kansas
  • Mizzou
  • OkSU
  • KSU
  • ISU

If the powers then at be would have been able to pull it off, the solution that would likely have led to a successful conference based in that region would have been to take the top four or five from each league then expand the footprint from there.  I'm thinking something like (same order):
  • Texas
  • Oklahoma
  • Nebraska
  • aTm
  • Colorado
  • Arkansas
  • Kansas
  • Mizzou
  • TxTech
  • Houston
  • A New Mexico School (either University of NM or NMST)
  • Either a Nevada school (probably UNLV rather than Nevada just due to travel considerations) or Utah or BYU

That would have been a powerful conference not altogether dependent on Texas.  That could have survived. 

Instead, Texas politics and the old Big8 members not wanting to leave the small-revenue historic members behind led to the B12 which, as originally constituted was:
  • Texas
  • Oklahoma
  • Nebraska
  • aTm
  • Colorado
  • Kansas
  • Mizzou
  • TxTech
  • OkSU
  • Baylor
  • KSU
  • ISU

There are just way too many non-contributors there (financially).  There always were.  Thus, when #3 (UNL to B1G), #4 (aTm to SEC), #5 (Colo to Pac), and #7 (Mizzou to SEC) left, the conference was a dead man walking.
Great analysis, Medina!
As an old Big 8 geezer, I'd flip your rankings for Colorado and Missouri.  Colorado has a better all-time record, and a part of a national championship, due to its best-ever run from the late '80s into the early '00s.  But Missouri's significance to college football goes back further than Colorado's.  Think Don Faurot and the Split-T offense.  Also, Missouri was the flagship school in a state much more populous than Colorado.  Missouri's stadium seats 71,000, while Colorado's seats 50,000.  Colorado was a relative latecomer to the conference--it joined what had been the Big 6 in 1947 and made it the Big 7.  (Oklahoma A&M joining in 1957 was the final brick in the wall.)  Before that, it had been in the Skyline Conference.  Missouri, by contrast, was a founding member of the Missouri Valley Intercollegiate Athletic Association (MVIAA, a.k.a. the Big Six) in 1928. That became the Big Seven in 1947, then the Big Eight in 1957.  Missouri's rivalry with Kansas was the 2nd-longest continuous rivalry in the country (longest west of the Mississippi) until Kansas discontinued it when Missouri joined the SEC.
On the basis of all that, I suspect that Missouri was a bigger financial contributor to the Big 8 than Colorado was.
That doesn't affect the logic of your analysis a bit.
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CWSooner

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Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #241 on: July 26, 2021, 01:29:51 PM »
I think ESPN said they may announce it as early as this, Monday, morning.
OU and UT officially notified the Big 12 this morning that they will not be extending the Grant of Rights.
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847badgerfan

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Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #242 on: July 26, 2021, 01:44:02 PM »
Exactly the kind of thing I was thinking of.  Guys like you might live in a fast-growing sunbelt state but your team is from where you came from.  I would guess that tOSU/M is a bigger deal in a substantial portion of Florida than UF/FSU for the same reason. 
Well, on this board, we have (that I know of) UW, UM, OSU represented in Florida alone. UW is in South Carolina, and Maryland (no longer here) was also in SC. I believe we also have PSU in North Carolina.

There is another Big Ten joint about 2 miles up the street. It's got paraphernalia from all of the schools, and is owned by a guy from Michigan. Good pizza too.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

847badgerfan

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Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #243 on: July 26, 2021, 01:49:00 PM »
I think it's gonna be hilarious when Texas and Tennessee argue who is THE UT, while aTm in the background says Texas is "tu". 
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

longhorn320

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Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #244 on: July 26, 2021, 01:51:48 PM »
I think it's gonna be hilarious when Texas and Tennessee argue who is THE UT, while aTm in the background says Texas is "tu".
yep but one thing remains constant

OU SUCKS
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Cincydawg

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Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #245 on: July 26, 2021, 01:58:39 PM »
Exactly the kind of thing I was thinking of.  Guys like you might live in a fast-growing sunbelt state but your team is from where you came from.  I would guess that tOSU/M is a bigger deal in a substantial portion of Florida than UF/FSU for the same reason. 
Someone told me Atlanta has the largest OSU fan club outside of Columbus.  I know there are several OSU bars in town, to the point they feature OSU when they are playing on their TVs and you'd better not ask them to change the channel.


Thumper

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Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #246 on: July 26, 2021, 04:13:35 PM »
yep but one thing remains constant

OU SUCKS


Thumper

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Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #247 on: July 26, 2021, 04:21:03 PM »
The Hooters here in Topeka is "Husker Central".  I haven't found a Sooners or Longhorns bar around here.  Absolutely no Mizzou places.

FearlessF

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Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #248 on: July 26, 2021, 04:35:55 PM »
good to know

I usually stop at the Blind Tiger on my way through
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Gigem

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Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #249 on: July 26, 2021, 04:43:52 PM »
I think it's gonna be hilarious when Texas and Tennessee argue who is THE UT, while aTm in the background says Texas is "tu".
I’ve purposely always avoided the “t.u.” thing but it’s pretty ingrained here in Aggieland. 

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #250 on: July 26, 2021, 05:13:11 PM »
Great analysis, Medina!

As an old Big 8 geezer, I'd flip your rankings for Colorado and Missouri.  Colorado has a better all-time record, and a part of a national championship, due to its best-ever run from the late '80s into the early '00s.  But Missouri's significance to college football goes back further than Colorado's.  Think Don Faurot and the Split-T offense.  Also, Missouri was the flagship school in a state much more populous than Colorado.  Missouri's stadium seats 71,000, while Colorado's seats 50,000.  Colorado was a relative latecomer to the conference--it joined what had been the Big 6 in 1947 and made it the Big 7.  (Oklahoma A&M joining in 1957 was the final brick in the wall.)  Before that, it had been in the Skyline Conference.  Missouri, by contrast, was a founding member of the Missouri Valley Intercollegiate Athletic Association (MVIAA, a.k.a. the Big Six) in 1928. That became the Big Seven in 1947, then the Big Eight in 1957.  Missouri's rivalry with Kansas was the 2nd-longest continuous rivalry in the country (longest west of the Mississippi) until Kansas discontinued it when Missouri joined the SEC.

On the basis of all that, I suspect that Missouri was a bigger financial contributor to the Big 8 than Colorado was.
That doesn't affect the logic of your analysis a bit.
Thank you for the compliment and for your perspective on it since you were closer to it than I was.  

Even today (2019 est) Missouri has a larger population than Colorado (6.1M vs 5.8M) but today that is close enough to be pretty much a wash and Colorado is growing MUCH faster.  Per the census, Colorado has added ~730k since 2010 (14.5%) while Missouri has added ~150k (2.5%).  I was thinking in current terms (ie, which would be a better addition for the B1G right now).  On that basis I think Colorado is better largely because the growth trends imply that Colorado's population will surpass that of Missouri within the 2020's.  

Colorado was 22nd in the 2010 census and per the census bureau's estimate they have overtaken #21 MN and are the third fastest growing state behind only Utah and Texas.  There is a good chance that they will pass all of the following in the 2020's and reach the 2030 census at #18:
  • #20 WI, 5.8M and grew 2.4%
  • #19 MD, 6.0M, 4.7%
  • #18 MO, 6.1M, 2.5% 

My thinking is that circa 2040 or 2050 Colorado will be an obviously more valuable property than Mizzou but you bring up a good point, they almost certainly were NOT in 1996.  

In the 1990 census Missouri was #15 with 4.9M and Colorado was #26 with 2.9M.  

An interesting aside:
Iowa was once a member of what became the B12.  They actually have an older history there than ISU.  Iowa was a charter member of the MVIAA along with Kansas, Mizzou, Nebraska, and Washington U.  ISU (along with Drake) joined in 1908, KSU joined in 1913, Grinnell joined in 1918, Oklahoma in 1919.  OkSU joined in 1925 then left then rejoined in 1958 and Colorado joined in 1947.  Iowa's membership was interesting because they were ALSO in the what became the B1G, having joined in 1899.  

In 1907 Iowa played one MVIAA game (Mizzou) and two Western games (UW, IL).  In 1908 and 1909 they appeared to be drifting to the MVIAA with only one Western game each year (IL then MN) and four or five MVIAA games per year.  In 1910 they played two Western games (PU and NU) and three MVIAA games (MO, ISU, Drake, Washington).  

CWSooner

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Re: Texas and OU to where?!?!
« Reply #251 on: July 26, 2021, 06:39:54 PM »
Thank you for the compliment and for your perspective on it since you were closer to it than I was. 

Even today (2019 est) Missouri has a larger population than Colorado (6.1M vs 5.8M) but today that is close enough to be pretty much a wash and Colorado is growing MUCH faster.  Per the census, Colorado has added ~730k since 2010 (14.5%) while Missouri has added ~150k (2.5%).  I was thinking in current terms (ie, which would be a better addition for the B1G right now).  On that basis I think Colorado is better largely because the growth trends imply that Colorado's population will surpass that of Missouri within the 2020's. 

Colorado was 22nd in the 2010 census and per the census bureau's estimate they have overtaken #21 MN and are the third fastest growing state behind only Utah and Texas.  There is a good chance that they will pass all of the following in the 2020's and reach the 2030 census at #18:
  • #20 WI, 5.8M and grew 2.4%
  • #19 MD, 6.0M, 4.7%
  • #18 MO, 6.1M, 2.5%

My thinking is that circa 2040 or 2050 Colorado will be an obviously more valuable property than Mizzou but you bring up a good point, they almost certainly were NOT in 1996. 

In the 1990 census Missouri was #15 with 4.9M and Colorado was #26 with 2.9M. 

An interesting aside:
Iowa was once a member of what became the B12.  They actually have an older history there than ISU.  Iowa was a charter member of the MVIAA along with Kansas, Mizzou, Nebraska, and Washington U.  ISU (along with Drake) joined in 1908, KSU joined in 1913, Grinnell joined in 1918, Oklahoma in 1919.  OkSU joined in 1925 then left then rejoined in 1958 and Colorado joined in 1947.  Iowa's membership was interesting because they were ALSO in the what became the B1G, having joined in 1899. 

In 1907 Iowa played one MVIAA game (Mizzou) and two Western games (UW, IL).  In 1908 and 1909 they appeared to be drifting to the MVIAA with only one Western game each year (IL then MN) and four or five MVIAA games per year.  In 1910 they played two Western games (PU and NU) and three MVIAA games (MO, ISU, Drake, Washington). 
I see your point about Colorado's growth rate.
The only additional factor I can think of is whether Colorado folks give a rip about football.  People in Missouri definitely do.
Interesting story about Iowa in the early days.  Conferences were pretty loosey-goosey about scheduling back then.  OU tied Texas for the SWC conference lead in 1918 having only played 2 conference games, while Texas had played 4.  The season was curtailed due to the Spanish flu, and the schedules were unbalanced, so no champion was officially announced.
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