header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: Sporty Cars

 (Read 125432 times)

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25278
  • Liked:
Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #1708 on: October 06, 2023, 08:32:08 AM »
How many miles per year do you put on your car?
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71615
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #1709 on: October 06, 2023, 08:33:29 AM »
Here is how a lease works.

New Car - Now worth $X.

Three year old car above - Projected to be worth $X - 30% or so, pick a number, say $20,000.

Take $20,000 and charge for a loan on that amount, X%.

Divide by 36 months - lease price.  You pay for projected depreciation over 3 years.  Beware the fine print, "normal wear and tear".

There are times they find some small paint chip and say "more than NW&T,  you owe us another $500".  Not everyone does this.  They also use leasing to get you into a nicer car.

MaximumSam

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 13106
  • Liked:
Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #1710 on: October 06, 2023, 08:57:00 AM »
How many miles per year do you put on your car?
Hard to say. Covid changed that quite a bit, but moving towards normal again. I always chafed against the mileage restrictions, though this would probably be like a two year deal

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25278
  • Liked:
Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #1711 on: October 06, 2023, 09:02:02 AM »
I'd go used.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 12215
  • Liked:
Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #1712 on: October 06, 2023, 09:32:23 AM »
I'd go used.
Me too. Leasing can make sense, but as I said in another thread, too many people use leasing to get a car nicer than they can afford for a lower payment than they want to spend to buy a car. 

If I was stuck in a position where I needed I car, I might lease, because my oldest is a sophomore in HS and three years from now he'll be in college, so my car needs will change at that point. And I don't drive a ton of miles. But absent "I know this is only a three year car due to changing life circumstances", I wouldn't lease. 

But used has a major advantage... And that is that right now I own three cars free & clear with no car payment, one of which is a "toy"--which i couldn't justify owning if I had a monthly payment on it--and probably can go w/o car payment or buying another car in cash if I can afford it, for at least 4-5 more years. 

A lease puts you on the treadmill, and if you get used to the habit of something brand new every 3 years, you'll never get off. I'm off the treadmill, at least for a while. 

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17714
  • Liked:
Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #1713 on: October 06, 2023, 09:41:06 AM »
My last two cars I owned for 12 and 11 years.  Paid them both off in 3.  My i s c & a aggie wife had her prior car for 16 years and we also paid that one off in 3 years.

We buy nice cars, take excellent care of them, and then keep them for a long time.  So TCO turns out to be lower for us, than if we leased the same category of car every 3 years.

If you have different maintenance habits, then it might not work out for you.

MaximumSam

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 13106
  • Liked:
Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #1714 on: October 06, 2023, 09:48:53 AM »
Me too. Leasing can make sense, but as I said in another thread, too many people use leasing to get a car nicer than they can afford for a lower payment than they want to spend to buy a car.

If I was stuck in a position where I needed I car, I might lease, because my oldest is a sophomore in HS and three years from now he'll be in college, so my car needs will change at that point. And I don't drive a ton of miles. But absent "I know this is only a three year car due to changing life circumstances", I wouldn't lease.

But used has a major advantage... And that is that right now I own three cars free & clear with no car payment, one of which is a "toy"--which i couldn't justify owning if I had a monthly payment on it--and probably can go w/o car payment or buying another car in cash if I can afford it, for at least 4-5 more years.

A lease puts you on the treadmill, and if you get used to the habit of something brand new every 3 years, you'll never get off. I'm off the treadmill, at least for a while.
I get that - the question is more about used car prices, which are supposedly at an all time high. Buying used only makes sense if you are getting a good deal, but I see conflicting things things about where people think car prices will go. The lease would be more about punting for a couple years and seeing what the market is then.

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25278
  • Liked:
Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #1715 on: October 06, 2023, 09:53:54 AM »
I get that - the question is more about used car prices, which are supposedly at an all time high. Buying used only makes sense if you are getting a good deal, but I see conflicting things things about where people think car prices will go. The lease would be more about punting for a couple years and seeing what the market is then.
So is everything else. Just have to deal with it.

I agree with B.R.A.D. Example:

My car was 2+ years old when I bought it in January 2016. 

The sticker was in the glove box.

Someone paid $74K for it. I got it for $41K out the door. 23K miles. Like new.

85K miles now. Like new.

U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 12215
  • Liked:
Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #1716 on: October 06, 2023, 10:05:51 AM »
I get that - the question is more about used car prices, which are supposedly at an all time high. Buying used only makes sense if you are getting a good deal, but I see conflicting things things about where people think car prices will go. The lease would be more about punting for a couple years and seeing what the market is then.
Ok, that's much more useful context. The portion of the car market I'll deal with soon will be the "cheap beater for a teenager", so probably not the same class of used vehicle you're talking about.

What I'd suggest is that you look at the used car market and look at the financial impact of leasing for a few years. I.e. let's say your lease up-front fees mostly uses up the $5K they want in trade-in... Not sure what you're looking at but I often see the ads talking about $4K due at signing, so we're in the ballpark. Let's say your lease is $350/month, for 36 months.

That would work out to $17K over that time.

Or, if you sell your used car on the (inflated as you point out) private market, do you think you could get $6K or $7K for it instead of the $5K you're being offered in trade? (Note: selling used/private market may be its own good decision even if you choose to lease--you usually get more than what's offered in trade.) What kind of car would you be looking at, at what price range, if you bought used? How "all time high" is it really and how much do you think it'll come down in three years?

That's how I approach the question. If spending $17K (or whatever your number) for 3 years saves me $10K when I buy in three years? Probably worth it b/c that means I'm actually only spending $7K over those three years to lease the car. But if it means it only saves me $3K when I buy in three years? Probably not worth it because I'm spending $14K on a dead asset rather than simply eating the $3K to purchase an asset that will have value down the road. Especially if the idea that used car prices will come down three years from now is effectively just a bet and not guaranteed.

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25278
  • Liked:
Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #1717 on: October 06, 2023, 10:17:23 AM »
Ok, that's much more useful context. The portion of the car market I'll deal with soon will be the "cheap beater for a teenager", so probably not the same class of used vehicle you're talking about.

What I'd suggest is that you look at the used car market and look at the financial impact of leasing for a few years. I.e. let's say your lease up-front fees mostly uses up the $5K they want in trade-in... Not sure what you're looking at but I often see the ads talking about $4K due at signing, so we're in the ballpark. Let's say your lease is $350/month, for 36 months.

That would work out to $17K over that time.

Or, if you sell your used car on the (inflated as you point out) private market, do you think you could get $6K or $7K for it instead of the $5K you're being offered in trade? (Note: selling used/private market may be its own good decision even if you choose to lease--you usually get more than what's offered in trade.) What kind of car would you be looking at, at what price range, if you bought used? How "all time high" is it really and how much do you think it'll come down in three years?

That's how I approach the question. If spending $17K (or whatever your number) for 3 years saves me $10K when I buy in three years? Probably worth it b/c that means I'm actually only spending $7K over those three years to lease the car. But if it means it only saves me $3K when I buy in three years? Probably not worth it because I'm spending $14K on a dead asset rather than simply eating the $3K to purchase an asset that will have value down the road. Especially if the idea that used car prices will come down three years from now is effectively just a bet and not guaranteed.
Trading versus selling depends on how taxes are computed. I have not bought a car here so I don't know. Back in IL, you paid tax on the difference - new car minus trade value. That could be a big number.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17714
  • Liked:
Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #1718 on: October 06, 2023, 10:21:34 AM »
So is everything else. Just have to deal with it.

I agree with B.R.A.D. Example:

My car was 2+ years old when I bought it in January 2016.

The sticker was in the glove box.

Someone paid $74K for it. I got it for $41K out the door. 23K miles. Like new.

85K miles now. Like new.



Yeah same here.  Sticker for my F150 was $65K, I paid $38K, with 36,000 miles on it.  It was like new, perfect condition.  Five years later I have 76,000 miles on it and it's still like new.

But of course this was the BeforeTimes, in the Long Long Ago.

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 12215
  • Liked:
Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #1719 on: October 06, 2023, 10:22:49 AM »
Trading versus selling depends on how taxes are computed. I have not bought a car here so I don't know. Back in IL, you paid tax on the difference - new car minus trade value. That could be a big number.
Good point. Here in CA you do pay sales taxes on new cars, and sales taxes are high here (~8%). I would think ours is similar where a trade-in means the sale price is lower by that amount, so the taxes are lower. So you need to get at least that much more (>8%) in private sale than trade-in to make it worth it. 

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17714
  • Liked:
Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #1720 on: October 06, 2023, 10:24:05 AM »
Good point. Here in CA you do pay sales taxes on new cars, and sales taxes are high here (~8%). I would think ours is similar where a trade-in means the sale price is lower by that amount, so the taxes are lower. So you need to get at least that much more (>8%) in private sale than trade-in to make it worth it.
Same in Texas.  So that's the exact calculation you have to make, +8% here as well on the private sale, to break even.

MaximumSam

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 13106
  • Liked:
Re: Sporty Cars
« Reply #1721 on: October 06, 2023, 10:34:55 AM »
Ok, that's much more useful context. The portion of the car market I'll deal with soon will be the "cheap beater for a teenager", so probably not the same class of used vehicle you're talking about.

What I'd suggest is that you look at the used car market and look at the financial impact of leasing for a few years. I.e. let's say your lease up-front fees mostly uses up the $5K they want in trade-in... Not sure what you're looking at but I often see the ads talking about $4K due at signing, so we're in the ballpark. Let's say your lease is $350/month, for 36 months.

That would work out to $17K over that time.

Or, if you sell your used car on the (inflated as you point out) private market, do you think you could get $6K or $7K for it instead of the $5K you're being offered in trade? (Note: selling used/private market may be its own good decision even if you choose to lease--you usually get more than what's offered in trade.) What kind of car would you be looking at, at what price range, if you bought used? How "all time high" is it really and how much do you think it'll come down in three years?

That's how I approach the question. If spending $17K (or whatever your number) for 3 years saves me $10K when I buy in three years? Probably worth it b/c that means I'm actually only spending $7K over those three years to lease the car. But if it means it only saves me $3K when I buy in three years? Probably not worth it because I'm spending $14K on a dead asset rather than simply eating the $3K to purchase an asset that will have value down the road. Especially if the idea that used car prices will come down three years from now is effectively just a bet and not guaranteed.
More context, I got t-boned on Monday and my car is totaled and I have to get a new one within the week

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.