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Topic: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

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utee94

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #19180 on: February 07, 2024, 02:45:07 PM »
Yeah that's fair.  I don't typically go to indoor parties with 200 people for any reason, anyway.

I guess the closest we ever get is when we go to clubs for live music, and I definitely wasn't doing any of those until sometime in spring of 2021.

847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #19181 on: February 07, 2024, 03:20:56 PM »
Yeah, by summer 2021 it was back to normal for us too.
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Hawkinole

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #19182 on: February 08, 2024, 01:25:27 AM »
I know one person (former ND neighbor) who was hospitalized. They had him on a ventilator for 3 weeks and his lungs crystalized. He'll never be the same. He got at it a party on December 31, 2020. His wife never got it.
One of my high school classmates was the 1st person in Iowa to die from COVID-19.

I have had clients die from it. I met one client in my office about 20-days before I heard his name on the obituaries on our local small town radio station circa Nov. 17 at 7:45 a.m. when I was getting dressed for work. He died Nov. 15, 2020. He was 70 and just seemed as healthy as could be.

We were very friendly. In March 2020 while discussing COVID, he said, "Mark, we will be protected in Delaware County from COVID-19 because we are in a rural area." I thought he was spewing nonsense because at that time, despite the fact there were no cases here, refrigerated trucks were storing bodies that couldn't be processed in New York City. We had no deaths or reported cases here in March, April, May, and June 2020. I started wondering if he was correct, even though I knew we get flu here like everyone else.

At 8:30 a.m. Nov. 17, 2020 I called his spouse to offer my condolences, and ask what happened since he was perfectly healthy 2-weeks earlier. I learned he died from COVID-19. He did have diabetes, which I did not know previously. He was slightly overweight but he was very active. He had retired within the year from farming. She said he was going to livestock auctions for entertainment. They attended a Trump rally in Des Moines October 14, 2020. He had COVID-19 2-weeks. We don't know where he got it, at a livestock auction or Trump rally. He refused a ventilator.

Next time his spouse came into my office she had a mask on. She didn't always agree with him. She tugged on her mask and said, "This is my best friend." She didn't get COVID-19.

Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #19183 on: February 13, 2024, 07:35:37 AM »
From my NYT feed this am...  (WARNING!!! Reading a word from the NYT may make you a liberal!!!).

Much of the world has decided that most young children do not need to receive Covid booster shots. It’s true in Britain, France, Japan and Australia.
Some countries, like India, have gone further. They say that otherwise healthy children do not need even an initial Covid vaccination. In Germany, public health experts don’t recommend vaccines for any children, including teenagers, unless they have a medical condition.
Scientists in these countries understand that Covid vaccines are highly effective. But the experts have concluded that the benefits for children often fail to outweigh the costs.
The benefits are modest because children are extremely unlikely to become seriously ill from Covid and are less likely to transmit the virus than an adult is. The costs include the financial price of mass vaccination, the possibility that a shot’s side effects will make a child sick enough to miss school, the tiny chance of more serious side effects and the inherent uncertainty about long-term effects.
The U.S. — as American readers have probably realized by this point in the newsletter — is a global outlier. The C.D.C. urges booster shots for all children six months and older.
Yet the recommendation has failed to accomplish much. Instead, most American parents have chosen to overrule the C.D.C. Only about 40 percent of children under 12 have been vaccinated against Covid, and only about 5 percent are up to date on their boosters.
This situation makes for a case study of the shortcomings in U.S. Covid policy: A strict approach to a nuanced issue has backfired, fostering skepticism of scientific expertise while doing little to improve public health. Dr. Francis Collins, the retired head of the National Institutes of Health, acknowledged the larger problem last year when he said that experts erred during the pandemic by taking a “very narrow view of what the right decision is.”
Monthslong school closures that harmed student learning were one example. Extended mask mandates that many people ignored were another. A continuing C.D.C. recommendation that conflicts with international practice — and that most Americans have dismissed — has become yet another.


Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #19184 on: February 13, 2024, 07:37:14 AM »
Dr. Sandro Galea, the dean of the Boston University School of Public Health, recently published a book making a detailed version of this argument. The book is titled, “Within Reason.” During the pandemic, as Galea told me, health experts sometimes adopted “an illiberal ideology.” This ideology imagined people as robots who existed merely to minimize the chances of contracting a virus.
In reality, as Galea pointed out, society regularly decides that some amount of additional safety isn’t worth it. Car drivers and passengers would be safer if they wore helmets, for instance, but who wears a helmet in a car?
In the case of Covid, there are indeed benefits to giving booster shots to children. Some of the benefits are probably greater for American children, too. They are more likely to be obese or lack health insurance than children elsewhere. “Even though kids are at a lower risk, they are not at zero risk,” Dr. Nirav Shah, the C.D.C.’s principal deputy director, told me when defending the booster recommendation.
But there are also downsides to urging health measures that most people oppose, Galea notes. Only when the benefits of doing so are large (as was the case with perceptions of smoking in the 20th century) should experts try to change people’s minds.
The scientific data — and the expert consensus in other countries — make it hard to argue that the benefits of boosting children are large. “I don’t think in the U.S.A. they have got the risk-benefit equation correct for children,” Dr. Peter Collignon of the Australian National University told me.
(C.D.C. data shows that the children at highest Covid risk are newborns, who aren’t eligible for vaccines even in the U.S. They can instead benefit from a mother’s prenatal vaccination.)
The value of candor
Galea believes that the biggest drawback to the U.S. booster policy may be its effect on the C.D.C.’s credibility. When people who are already skeptical of expert advice, as many Americans are, see the C.D.C. insisting on a vaccine with a marginal benefit, they have more reason to question other C.D.C. guidance — such as the urgent importance of childhood vaccines against measles and diphtheria.
“There is a real cost to our not being honest,” Galea said.
When I’ve asked public health experts off the record what they are doing with their own children, they tend to be honest. Almost all have vaccinated their children, for the sake of both those children and other people. At the same time, some experts told me that they had not boosted their children.
Why? The benefits seem small, for everybody. The costs — like a child’s fear of needles or a missed day of school from side effects — also seem small. With such a close call, reasonable parents will make different decisions, and that’s OK.
Maybe the C.D.C. would have a bigger impact if it conveyed a similarly candid message.


FearlessF

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #19185 on: February 13, 2024, 08:25:28 AM »
“There is a real cost to our not being honest,” Galea said.
Maybe the C.D.C. would have a bigger impact if it conveyed a similarly candid message.


maybe
maybe not
some folks are just skeptical 
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #19186 on: February 13, 2024, 08:31:31 AM »
I think a lot of the scepticism comes from poor messenging and lack of openness and logic.  And that, I think, became political, we saw extremes in messenging from vaccinate EvERYBODY to NOBODY.

Folks got polarized based on their politics.

847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #19187 on: February 13, 2024, 11:13:05 AM »
I think a lot of the scepticism comes from poor messenging and lack of openness and logic.  And that, I think, became political, we saw extremes in messenging from vaccinate EvERYBODY to NOBODY.

Folks got polarized based on their politics.
Some, not all.
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utee94

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #19188 on: February 13, 2024, 11:16:24 AM »
I think a lot of the scepticism comes from poor messenging and lack of openness and logic.  And that, I think, became political, we saw extremes in messenging from vaccinate EvERYBODY to NOBODY.

Folks got polarized based on their politics.

I witnessed a certain group of people consistently banging on the "FoLLoW tHe ScIEnCe!!!" gong without any clue as to what that actually meant.  To the point that they disparaged, dismissed, and villainized any who disagreed with them-- or even any who stopped to question whether or not ALL of "the science" was being considered-- as being immoral and inhuman.  

Which only served to further polarize the issue.

In the current climate, there appears to be zero allowance for tolerance.  And that's a major problem.  

847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #19189 on: February 13, 2024, 11:27:43 AM »
I witnessed a certain group of people consistently banging on the "FoLLoW tHe ScIEnCe!!!" gong without any clue as to what that actually meant.  To the point that they disparaged, dismissed, and villainized any who disagreed with them-- or even any who stopped to question whether or not ALL of "the science" was being considered-- as being immoral and inhuman. 

Which only served to further polarize the issue.

In the current climate, there appears to be zero allowance for tolerance.  And that's a major problem. 

That's on the CDC, FDA, and Dr. Fauci. We have been lied to, coerced and deceived through this whole ordeal.

It's even coming out now that some treatments that were deemed "bad" or crazy can actually work. Why were they deemed bad, and who deemed them bad? We all know the answer to this.

What else would you expect?
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utee94

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #19190 on: February 13, 2024, 11:32:18 AM »
The disinformation was certainly the fault of those parties mentioned, but the desire to "dunk on" anyone who plays for the other political team, is what I'm talking about.

And that's universal, it comes from members of both "teams" and it's getting worse every year.  Just complete identity politics, absolute immersion in the cult of personality that comes from believing so much in the superiority of your team, that anyone who doesn't agree with you is not only stupid and wrong, but also evil.

I don't believe in either one of these teams, I've grown to loathe them both, and it saddens me watching people I would otherwise deem intelligent, become corrupted and foolish as they continually double down on their identity politics.

It's sad and I'm not sure there's a way out of it.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2024, 11:58:28 AM by utee94 »

847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #19191 on: February 13, 2024, 11:34:17 AM »
That last part is the worst part. And I agree.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #19192 on: February 13, 2024, 11:43:12 AM »
I witnessed a certain group of people consistently banging on the "FoLLoW tHe ScIEnCe!!!"
This drives me crazy as I usually hear this from folks with a very very scanty background in "science" or even understanding of what it is.

I've been exposed to enough about "science" to understand my background is also very specialized and scant though I do make an effort to keep up a bit in some areas.  Take climate science, to me, the actual science is very very very complex.  I don't think I have nearly the background to assess it fairly, I can read comments by some who do have some background, and appear not to be politically motivated.  But those comments are hardly a consensus.

It's easier to think "Well, my TEAM says X, so I believe X".


FearlessF

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #19193 on: February 13, 2024, 12:57:40 PM »
That's on the CDC, FDA, and Dr. Fauci. We have been lied to, coerced and deceived through this whole ordeal.
it's also on Pelosi, Trump, and all the other political shit heads
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

 

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