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Topic: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas

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847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #16926 on: January 08, 2022, 11:23:57 AM »
Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 08, 2022, 11:04:08 AM
Hospitalizations in OC now higher than during the Delta wave and higher than summer 2020, still below the early 2021 post-holiday surge.

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/orange-county-covid-19-hospitalizations-exceed-first-wave/2793531/?amp
I'd like to know where OC stands in relation to this kind of thing:


Almost half of reported NY COVID-19 hospitalizations are not due to COVID-19 | Fox News
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bayareabadger

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #16927 on: January 08, 2022, 11:44:36 AM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 08, 2022, 11:23:57 AM
I'd like to know where OC stands in relation to this kind of thing:


Almost half of reported NY COVID-19 hospitalizations are not due to COVID-19 | Fox News
I'd be interested in the mechanics of that. I.e. what is "admitted for non-COVID conditions." 

If you might have COVID, is that how it's recored? Like, if you come in with COVID symptoms, but they don't know if you have it, does that count? I always like to start with a statistic by asking, "if this is being used to fuel the most convenient point, is it actually saying that?" It's like that comorbidity thing, which existed in a super context-free world. 
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847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #16928 on: January 08, 2022, 11:46:58 AM »
To me, there is a major difference in dying from Covid versus dying with Covid.

The two are not the same. Not even close.
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utee94

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #16929 on: January 08, 2022, 11:51:15 AM »
On the one hand, if the hospitals and ICUs are full, I don't really care about arguing the semantics of how or why.  It's a health crisis regardless.

On the other hand, when communities are dictating their public health policy responses to COVID based solely on whether the hospital reach a certain threshold, and not on the CAUSE of the occupancy, then that becomes a problem.

For example, requiring the 3rd booster for normal social interaction when present data is showing it's statistically insignificant with respect to hospitalization and severe outcomes...
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Cincydawg

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #16930 on: January 08, 2022, 12:00:00 PM »
My GUESS if folks show up in the ER and get a quick triage, they have trouble breathing, so they are admitted, and THEN tested and found to have COVID.

I'm not surprised they don't know why they are sick when they show up.

I went to the ER with my heart thing, sent by my Primary, and they just wrote down what I told them, or tried to, I got asked some stupid questions really on admission.
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847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #16931 on: January 08, 2022, 12:19:56 PM »
Quote from: utee94 on January 08, 2022, 11:51:15 AM
On the one hand, if the hospitals and ICUs are full, I don't really care about arguing the semantics of how or why.  It's a health crisis regardless.

On the other hand, when communities are dictating their public health policy responses to COVID based solely on whether the hospital reach a certain threshold, and not on the CAUSE of the occupancy, then that becomes a problem.

For example, requiring the 3rd booster for normal social interaction when present data is showing it's statistically insignificant with respect to hospitalization and severe outcomes...
I have not looked, but I would really like to see a report on the ICU occupancies in Januarys prior to 2020, as a comparison to now. I guess I would not know where to start.

Right now, 12 percent of Florida's beds are occupied by Covid patients. If the other 88 percent are occupied, then that's a problem.

But, it's NOT a Covid problem. It's a system problem. Maybe they need more beds, period.
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ELA

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #16932 on: January 08, 2022, 02:07:15 PM »
Quote from: bayareabadger on January 08, 2022, 11:44:36 AM
I'd be interested in the mechanics of that. I.e. what is "admitted for non-COVID conditions."

If you might have COVID, is that how it's recored? Like, if you come in with COVID symptoms, but they don't know if you have it, does that count? I always like to start with a statistic by asking, "if this is being used to fuel the most convenient point, is it actually saying that?" It's like that comorbidity thing, which existed in a super context-free world.

https://twitter.com/davidwade/status/1479198167409340419?t=z8cvcgRWPExvUaWv0GQjoQ&s=19
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utee94

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #16933 on: January 08, 2022, 02:10:00 PM »

Quote
"I'm surprised this didn't happen much earlier."

Hmmm.  He might be, but I'm not.

Regardless, it's a step in the right direction, as we must move as a nation and as a global community past the idea that this is a pandemic, and accept that the virus is endemic and omnipresent.

The COVID-hysteria has got to end and it must be replaced by sound public policy based on solid scientific data.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #16934 on: January 08, 2022, 02:34:45 PM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 08, 2022, 11:23:57 AM
I'd like to know where OC stands in relation to this kind of thing:


Almost half of reported NY COVID-19 hospitalizations are not due to COVID-19 | Fox News
Not sure on OC. Politically, OC is more conservative than any other populous area in CA, so I don't think there would be a political pressure to overcount.

I also don't know that there has been any change in reporting methodology over the course of the pandemic, so at least when comparing OC-to-OC numbers over time, I don't think you can point to these hospitalization numbers relative to past waves as being reported differently. 

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 08, 2022, 11:46:58 AM
To me, there is a major difference in dying from Covid versus dying with Covid.

The two are not the same. Not even close.
True. 

But a lot of extra people have been dying through this thing: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

Oddly enough, the shape of the excess death numbers seem to mirror the waves of high case rates. Who'da thunk it? 
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847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #16935 on: January 08, 2022, 03:01:33 PM »
Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on January 08, 2022, 02:34:45 PM

But a lot of extra people have been dying through this thing: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

Oddly enough, the shape of the excess death numbers seem to mirror the waves of high case rates. Who'da thunk it?
Of course. And a lot of those people (90+ % if not more) have 3+ other things wrong with them. In Italy, it was close to 4 things. Covid pushed them over the edge. Still sad, but I can't see another way of looking at it.
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FearlessF

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #16936 on: January 08, 2022, 03:11:55 PM »
Quote from: utee94 on January 08, 2022, 02:10:00 PM
The COVID-hysteria has got to end and it must be replaced by sound public policy based on solid scientific data.

unfortunately, you're not in charge

the hysteria shows no sign of ending and no sign of sound policy based on anything solid
"has got to" and "must" seem silly
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bayareabadger

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #16937 on: January 08, 2022, 06:53:32 PM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 08, 2022, 11:46:58 AM
To me, there is a major difference in dying from Covid versus dying with Covid.

The two are not the same. Not even close.
While somewhat true, there is a great thirst to paint any other medical condition combined with COVID as "dying with COVID."

The reality is of course somewhat in the middle. 
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847badgerfan

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #16938 on: January 08, 2022, 07:08:22 PM »
Quote from: bayareabadger on January 08, 2022, 06:53:32 PM
While somewhat true, there is a great thirst to paint any other medical condition combined with COVID as "dying with COVID."

The reality is of course somewhat in the middle.
No it's not.

Hospitals got a shit ton more money for Covid deaths than they did regular deaths.

You know how I know this?

I was on the Foundation Board at our local hospital in Illinois until 12/31/21.

I'm no longer on that board, but I will be joining the board at our local hospital in Punta Gorda in March.
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bayareabadger

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Re: Coronavirus discussion and Quarantine ideas
« Reply #16939 on: January 08, 2022, 07:19:13 PM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 08, 2022, 07:08:22 PM
No it's not.

Hospitals got a shit ton more money for Covid deaths than they did regular deaths.

You know how I know this?

I was on the Foundation Board at our local hospital in Illinois until 12/31/21.

I'm no longer on that board, but I will be joining the board at our local hospital in Punta Gorda in March.
I thought you were talking in an actual practical sense, i.e. comorbidities and such. 

The way you phrased that, it sound like hospitals are being paid by the death, which would be awkward. 
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